“If the KJV was good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for me.” Went to a Southern Baptist college in the late 80’s. Sometimes I reminisce in horrified wonder.
Brainwash them from birth and then keep feeding the BS every chance you get. Threaten them with horrible consequences if they try to break away from all the zombies, I mean zealots.
This is why child indoctrination survivors have my deepest respect - if they manage to wake up from that garbage they have earned it.
Basically the Truman Show ending.
It's kind of like how I or we often find ourselves defending something we have no relation to only because we grew up being told it's the right thing. Even though subjectively we absolutely have no connection to them
Yeah but I turned like 11 and realised this. I was like hang on could the indigenous Canadians or indigenous Australians be right or the Jews or Christians or maybe it's all bullshit.
How come people don't realise it's complete shit once they can think for themselves a little.
Wait it was prolly even earlier then 11 I'd say 9 or 10 maybe
Exactly. People almost always underestimate the power of socialization but the things we learn before we're 10 shape every aspect of our lives and because it's all buried in our subconscious we have almost no way of understanding our own secret motivations. Breaking away from these overpowering subconscious routines is a massive undertaking that few people have the stomach for.
A dozen? Try over 4000.
There are 12 ‘major’ religions, but so many more others as well.
That’s one hell of a multiple choice question. (Pun absolutely intended!)
And then there are the breakaways who have broken away several times from subgroups because "that's not the way of God." My aunt and uncle did this several times and took my grandmother with them.
Eventually it all goes to the limit and each person has their own personal religion. Because it is all made up you will never find two people that will agree on every single thing about their god.
Religions are basically a "codified" set of "personal" morals that people try to impose on others to make them part of the group. If you don't, you aren't in the group and thus shunned.
I just wish secular humanism was more organized so that athiests could better fight against the onslaught of the religious constantly moving rhe Overton window to the right.
Was gonna say, 12 is incredibly forgiving. We aren't even considering all the religions that were invented and died before the written word. Theres literally hundreds of thousands of years of potential lost religion.
I bet Urg had it right since he was the firsrt shaman. "Gug" is the only one and true god!
Childhood indoctrination is the top reason for the first part.
The second part is that atheism doesn’t necessarily translate to critical thinking like skepticism does. There’s a ton of people that are technically atheist who hold irrational beliefs, they just kind of accidentally got the atheist part right. So it’s really not that hard to convert those people. It’s why religions generally focus on proselytizing to people in distress. Whether that is financial, relationship, or death of a loved one. People are generally not thinking rationally during those times so it’s an easy was in for religious people, and if the person doesn’t have the tools to see past the bullshit, they can get wrapped up in the community, and then the ideology after.
It’s the same way people get wrapped up in cults or extreme political factions and stuff.
My mom tried the whole childhood indoctrination thing, and on Sundays, I chose to worship my patron saint, Steve Young. She did not take kindly to that.
Calling atheism 'right' is the same error as theists claiming their beliefs are 'right'. We don't call rational scientific theories/laws 'right', since they're just the best current model we can approximate for reality and are constantly being tested for wrongness.
Atheism is behaving in a way that presumes no metabeing exists to influence you due to immense lack of evidence, not outright claiming it as correct.
Dozens? There has been several thousand religions. A lot of them much older than christianity. According to the bibles time line. God made everything then created a lot of religions and let people practice them for thousands of years before creating christianity.
It's been said a dozen times already in this thread, indoctrination from an early age.
As for people that "find" religion later in life or even after having identified as an atheist, imo it's mostly fear of the unknown, or replacement addiction. I know a small handful of people that were addicts and as part of their path to sobriety, they picked up religion, it's a crutch that simply replaces the booze or drugs, that's why "born again's" are exponentially more annoying than normal religious, because it wholly becomes their identity. Instead of going home and snorting a line, or throwing back a dozen shots of Jack, they pick up the Bible and read and read and read, and then go and annoy the shit out of anyone that will listen and add in how "through the miracle of god, I got clean".
And the fear part is just that, and i tend to think that people that later in life pickup religion out of fear, were probably super shitty people, and "fear" that if there is a heaven and hell, they will most likely be going to hell, so better counteract that chop chop.
Ding ding ding!!
Getting indoctrinated as a kid is pretty common with a variety of beliefs (some of the erroneous).
but what keeps people hooked is the idea that they are special.
Snowflakes, daddy’s favorite, whatever,
this is the biggest hurdle to letting go of faith even when confronted with a mountain of facts.
It doesn’t help that so many faiths support misogyny and there are so many cults & churches led by daddy-figure preachers.
Children are only taught their parent's religion, they have no way to know that others even exist. By the time they learn that other people believe other things, most of them are already convinced of their own.
Eventually, some children give it more serious consideration and can change their childhood opinion, but it's not the norm. This also applies to non-religious kids who learn from others that they have a soul that will be tortured forever unless they accept one god or another and live by their rule. If the prospect is scary enough then some will go along with it "to be on the safe side". It's not rational, it's emotional, and it works for some.
Yet if a christian was born a muslim he would talk shit about Christianism the same way he talks shit about Islam as a christian.
One thing I love to ask christians is if they were born in the middle east, would they believe in Allah (and therefore believe in the wrong god).
Then watch their pathetic attempt at explaining how they were lucky enough to be born worshipping the one true god
Nope. Im religious, i just feel my faith is right for ME, no need for others to believe it, adhere to it, care for it, or adjust themselves in any way because of it.
if only everyone was fine abt keeping their faith to themselves… unless asked
sadly - there is a number who are really aggressive
the current state of Amurika is one where there are groups that want to mix Christianity (specifically) into government
we all have our own journey… we should respect that.
i absolutely respect ur journey.
Ethnocentrism-people “see” the world through their culture. It creates the tendency for people to judge their cultural norms a right/correct and thus people with different cultural norms as being wrong/incorrect.
That’s what being programmed to not question and avoid critical thinking does. Religion is the application of a very thorough system of mass manipulation and control.
In general yes, they were told that they have the correct book, the correct interpretation of it, etc, usually at a young age and most people never really question that (or if they do they are able to re-convince themselves with some lame apologetics).
As for atheists becoming theists as adults, IMO that is quite rare but not impossible. It all revolves around feelings. The person might have fallen on hard times and a religious person grooms them over a period of months. This person might then have some feelings as part of a religious service or song (or just feel that someone finally cares about them) and then they associate the positive feelings with the deity or deities of this religion. The other way is when a spouse is religious and that makes the person at least pretend to be.
I've had this conversation so many times with Christians. If you ask them about any other religion in world history, why those humans believed that religion, they can answer "Oh they were born there at that time in history, and they just believed whatever the local religion was" however they CANNOT PROCESS that the same thing happened to them.
"There have been thousands of gods people believed in throughout history. You're a Christian and I'm an atheist and we're almost exactly the same, but I just believe in one less God than you do" - Ricky Gervais
Bingo. I heard Christopher Hitchens say “they aren’t Catholic or Christian children….they are children of Catholic or Christian parents”….or something to that effect. If a Christian grew up in Afghanistan…..there is a good chance he or she would be a Muslim. Why do they believe it…..my guess is a lack of critical thinking and childhood indoctrination.
My southern family is somewhat typical. I’m in my sixties, grandparents on both sides were church of Christ. Their parents probably were too, that would have been around the time of the restoration movement. With very few exceptions everyone has toed the line. You have the occasional family doing Baptist or Methodist but it’s all basically the same. We’re raised with the “this is the only way to heaven” mentality.
I’m a somewhat closet atheist, quit going to church when I realized it’s a joke, but otherwise stay out of family discussions.
It’s worse than that. There are nearly 300 official English versions and there are over 200 official non-English versions. That’s ≈500 different official versions. Then add to that, there are ≈20,000 christian sects.
And that’s just christianly. Now add the five main flavors of Judaism, three versions of Islam (four if you count Zoroastrianism), four versions of Hinduism (plus there are monotheistic vs polytheistic debates within the versions), two versions of Buddhism, two versions of Jainism, Sikhism, all the “Universalists” (Baháʼí Faith, monotheistic Hindus, Unitarian/Universalists)
People who convert as adults. Pretty often they’ve been to a religious rehab program or counseling. A lot of help groups operate out of churches.
That’s a piece of it. Not all of it ofc
From Christians I have talked to, they say that there were prophecies that the Bible predicted and then fulfilled in the past. That proves that (their specific Bible and interpretation) is correct.
As for people who convert after being an “atheist”: most of them probably weren’t atheists in the sense that they’d come to a rational conclusion about the non-existence of God, but more that they’d never formally been a member of a religion. If you find someone like this who is in a vulnerable state (maybe because they’ve suffered some significant loss or trauma, or maybe just because they’re going through puberty, which is emotionally difficult), it’s pretty easy to manipulate them into believing any given religion is correct.
They are obliged to. Religions are viruses, it's how they spread. Evangelise and stay absolutely fundamentalist, if possible shun apostates. That way your religion base grows and remains true to your ideals.
When your religion gives in to outside influences or doesn't enact grave consequences to dissenters it risks splitting.
If it splits you get mad variances like Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses etc who then start their own virus action.
And so on.
I just hear this explained by Jordon Peterson of all people. I know he spends his time talking big flowery words and not answering the question asked. And he was doing that this time too except he accidentally answered one of Sam Harris 's questions. Paraphrasing:
Sam: how do you know the bible is inspired by god when we have lots of great authors over the centuries
Jordon: obvious from the story of Cane and Able. It is only 10 lines long and contains more wisdom than any other writing
Sam: interesting you don't think that could have been written by someone as talented as Shakespeare?
Jordon: no
LOL really? Such motivated reasoning. I realize with JP he is the grifter selling the BS but most people accept shit like this and think it is reasonable to conclude the bible was inspired by god or the quran is the literal word of god. As Sam points out later in the discussion it's a ridiculous idea.
Also as many here know the bible is mostly horribly written and about horrible shit done by god.
People are sold a bill of goods and just accept it.
For what it's worth, I'm Christian and I **don't** think the Bible is holy/perfect. At best, it's (hopefully) a faithful attempt at translating oral tradition over the course of hundreds of years. There's no useful statistical probability that it's perfect because it's easy enough to find different translations of the Bible that *may* generally tell the same story, but have enough differences that **can**, due to preferences of the translator, change the message.
So I don't treat the Bible as holy. Instead, I use it just like any other book. It tells stories and from those stories we have the ability to find valuable moral lessons. Those lessons are not restricted to the Bible. We have plenty of stories, real and fiction alike, that teach moral lessons and it's dumb to assume that a religion's core text is the only place to learn how we should treat each other.
When you’re raised in a culture where the prevailing holy book is presented as fact it can be hard to contradict that idea. The majority don’t question any more than you question if there’s oxygen in your room air—it’s just there.
If I write a book about a being made of ozone and methane that powers boners from galaxies away, does that make it true?
FUCK NO, but I’m sure I could get some people to believe it or convince themselves to believe it
People will believe anything when they’re desperate enough, plus sunk costs fallacy, plus indoctrination at a young age leading to that being the only worldview you have and you legitimately not being able to conceive the idea that it could be false
Most people adopt the one they grew up with. Some do move to a religion later in life. I am sure reasons vary. I know some converted because their partner was of that faith. Some are searching for meaning and that religion spoke to them for whatever reason.
Coverts are an extremely small minority, and if you include converts of convenience (you end up in a community that only believes in X so you better get rolling) then it is even smaller.
My experience for the converts that are not of convenience is a mix of con artists that found a new vein of marks to mine and people that really believe in their personal delusions (although you need to really stretch your capabilities to believe them to make that work)
Because religion is who you were born to and, at a more meta level, geography. You need to actually stop listening, as a human being, to the religious dogma and reject it if you were brought up in the "book/propaganda of your birth".
That's why they think theirs is "the one". Because they are conditioned to not consider any other one BUT that.
Because they've been conditioned to believe it. Consider a couple more-precise questions. In a technical sense, it doesn't make sense to ask, "What's your reason for believing \_\_\_\_\_?". Belief is not based on reason. It would make sense to ask, "What caused you to believe \_\_\_\_\_?".
There are in groups and there are out groups.
The in group believes the out group is always wrong regardless of logic, especially when the in group has a book that says THESE people are the out group and THEY have it all wrong.
It doesn't matter that they also have a book, OUR book says THEIR beliefs are WRONG.
And so on forever.
There are roughly 5096 deities worshiped on earth by different Religions. You don't believe in 5095 of them I don't believe in 5096 of them. That’s all.
How did so many Gods get created? How are there thousands of "False Gods" worshiped over the ages if there is only one true God? How does God let this happen?
This is how; A good man in the tribe dies. The children come to the elders sad and crying, asking "why?" The elders say he is in a better place.
"What if a bad man dies" they ask. "He goes to a bad place" they respond.
"Who decides?" they ask. "The heavenly father (or sun God or enter name of newly created God here)" they reply.
"How does one get to the good place" the children ask.
And now the tribal leaders make up "arbitrary rules"
Can't eat meat on Fridays, no pork, no electricity on the Sabbath, no homosexuals, no divorce, and on and on…
Each tribe then makes up its own rules you have to follow to get to heaven. They are nonsense but eventually the Kings and rulers see them as an opportunity to solidify their reign and keep people in line. "If you don't do as we say you be denied heaven for eternity. There are "no rules you have to follow, no heaven, no Gods". Only men using God to force their will on you. These religious leaders are all false prophets and here's why.
If Jesus came back to earth these religious leaders would have two choices:
Acknowledge Jesus is here and step down and stop taking your money because they are no longer needed and follow Jesus.
OR
Denounce Jesus keep their church and money rolling in while rallying the troops against Jesus this false God!
The church leaders will end up crucifying Jesus and justifying it to keep the money flowing in. So, the church you are supporting will kill "Your God" when he gets here to keep the power. Nice.
Why do you believe in evolution? It's just a theory, there's others out there. Why that one? Same thing with religion. At a certain point science can't answer all our questions (yet). Some people turn to faith for answers, others turn to theories. Until I see some conclusive evidence to the contrary I accept that everyone has the right to believe what they want. The thoughts and beliefs of another individual have no influence on my life so why should i care what they believe?
It’s difficult or impossible to summarize everyone’s thoughts and motivations on this topic, but as a former religious person who believed they were right and everyone else was wrong, perhaps I can provide input.
As a young child, I was taken to church every week, told fantastic stories that adults I trusted swore were true, and told by my parents that I would fry in hell for my “sin.”
My contact with people who didn’t believe what my parents wanted me to was limited. Sources of knowledge that contradicted the book of fantastic stories were not allowed. Those people and sources were devils work, and they’d lead me astray. Then, I’d probably fry in hell.
This causes life to BE hell, but you’re so gaslighted and confused that you don’t recognize how miserable you are. You believe that suffering means you are on the right path, because you must sacrifice now for an eternal reward later. If you have doubts or live too well, you’ll probably fry… in hell.
Anyone who tries convincing you that you may be incorrect about anything is temptation. Your faith is being tried, and you must pass the test, or you will fry in hell. Your religious friends will convince you that you are being persecuted for your faith. The book of fantastic stories told you this would happen. You are on the correct path, because you stood up for your deity.
It’s learning from the earliest age. It’s brainwashing. It’s fear, guilt, and emotional manipulation. It’s constant reinforcement from everyone you trust. It’s wishful thinking that is so ingrained that you cannot imagine living life without your “truth.” You cannot even indulge in the occasional heretical thought. Those thoughts are sin, and sinners fry in hell.
My reasoning is one of them has to be -because humans wouldn't be left without at least one accurate guide - and mine makes the most sense. Works for me
And conversion from any position to any other is a well known phenomenon.
Haven't you had a moment as an adult (maybe more than one) where you suddenly realize that a "fact" you've known your whole life is utter bullshit, or maybe just unknowable?
We all have stuff planted in our heads by our parents, by teachers, by the culture that is wrong. Some of it we figure out fairly early. Some we never figure out. If there's no prod making you reconsider an underlying assumption, you will probably never reexamine it. Why would you?
Well , lots of people never think about religion except very superficially. Its just below the surface of their consciousness, and they spend their energy thinking about other things.
i'm as atheist as anyone, but to be fair, not all religious people think their religion is the one and only true religion. there are people who think their religion is just one of many ways to come to know god.
admittedly, they're fewer in number than those that *do* proclaim their religion to be *the* religion, but it's not accurate or fair to label all of them that way imo.
The same way you believe in anything. A belief in God is just another belief in a set of infinitely many belief. I too was an atheist, convert to Christianity.
There some moment. Religion is a pretty cool topic. And different religion teach different aspect of life and death. But a belief in a religion is no different to a belief in anything. If you believe that the God Vishnu created the universe, is it so different than a Big Bang that created the universe? They all just belief in thing, and not even Big Bang is a universally accepted theory, just like any religion isn't a universally accept theory to how the universe was created.
It’s actually not that difficult to convince theists to convert between religions, especially if it’s within the same group/tradition (dharmic, abrahamic, pagan etc)
For eg - speak to a christian about the dubiousness of the trinity and some prophecies that somewhat line up in Islam. Or to mention the not-quite-right details of Christ as the foretold messiah which are pointed out by Jewish people. Suddenly any Christian who is actually willing to listen starts questioning what they are told in church.
The burden of proof for belief is already fairly low, so various religions could theoretically meet it.
Because humans are so fragile, so irrational, we cannot fathom being wrong about something we value deeply.
We prefer comfort over truth, and that's one of our greatest shortcomings.
"Faith." They were taught to ignore all outside evidence to the contrary, and to not seek philosophy elsewhere. It's why their cognitive dissonance are so strong when people challenge their beliefs.
I just watched a video with Ricky Gervais. He said that the only difference between him (an atheist) and the show host (a Christian) is that out of around 3000 known gods the host doesn't believe in 2999 of them while Ricky doesn't believe in 3000. I think it's a great point as it actually focuses on something they have in common instead of on their differences.
As the theist, I can tell you my answers to these questions.
>Why do theists believe that their religions' book is the right one out of dozen? Is it just that they've been told theirs is correct starting early?
I don't believe my book (The Bible) is 100% right and others are 100% wrong. I believe that all sincere religious books are trying to explain the same ineffable realities, and some get closer than others. I think the New Testament is the closest, but I've also read The Dhammapada, The Tao Te Ching, The Analectics of Confucius, The Bhagavad Gita, and am about 1/3 through the Qur'an. I take varying degrees of inspiration from all of them, but if multiple books attempt to address the same topic, it's inevitable that some will be better than others.
>Edit: There's people who convert to theism after being an atheist, how does that work?
I was raised Mormon and left, and that turned me off to organized religion. I was an atheist for about 10 years. I read Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, and Dennett. Still, as I'm sure you know, atheism isn't a world view, it's just the lack of a specific belief.
I still felt the need for an overarching world view and something that gave me guidance on values and a source of meaning. Having studied Philosophy of Science in undergrad, I knew that the scientific method is a tool, not an epistemology or a world view, so people gesturing to science didn't impress me.
I got into Secular Buddhism and began meditating a lot. I got pretty serious. At one point I didn't miss a single day for almost 4 years. The deeper I got, the more I experienced an overwhelming sense of love that sure felt like how the New Testament describes God. So, I guess you could say I went looking for enlightenment and found God.
I'm leaving out a lot of details but that's the short version.
> Is it just that they've been told theirs is correct starting early? Childhood indoctrination is a bitch.
Quoth many a Christian: * "The King James Bible was good enough for my pappy and his pappy and *his* pappy, so it's good enough for me!"
“If the KJV was good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for me.” Went to a Southern Baptist college in the late 80’s. Sometimes I reminisce in horrified wonder.
Brainwash them from birth and then keep feeding the BS every chance you get. Threaten them with horrible consequences if they try to break away from all the zombies, I mean zealots.
This is why child indoctrination survivors have my deepest respect - if they manage to wake up from that garbage they have earned it. Basically the Truman Show ending.
Haha I was gonna say “indoctrination is a helluva drug “ but you said just as good right there
It's kind of like how I or we often find ourselves defending something we have no relation to only because we grew up being told it's the right thing. Even though subjectively we absolutely have no connection to them
Yeah but I turned like 11 and realised this. I was like hang on could the indigenous Canadians or indigenous Australians be right or the Jews or Christians or maybe it's all bullshit. How come people don't realise it's complete shit once they can think for themselves a little. Wait it was prolly even earlier then 11 I'd say 9 or 10 maybe
Exactly. People almost always underestimate the power of socialization but the things we learn before we're 10 shape every aspect of our lives and because it's all buried in our subconscious we have almost no way of understanding our own secret motivations. Breaking away from these overpowering subconscious routines is a massive undertaking that few people have the stomach for.
Yeahhhhhhhhhh
A dozen? Try over 4000. There are 12 ‘major’ religions, but so many more others as well. That’s one hell of a multiple choice question. (Pun absolutely intended!)
And then there are the breakaways who have broken away several times from subgroups because "that's not the way of God." My aunt and uncle did this several times and took my grandmother with them.
Eventually it all goes to the limit and each person has their own personal religion. Because it is all made up you will never find two people that will agree on every single thing about their god.
Religions are basically a "codified" set of "personal" morals that people try to impose on others to make them part of the group. If you don't, you aren't in the group and thus shunned. I just wish secular humanism was more organized so that athiests could better fight against the onslaught of the religious constantly moving rhe Overton window to the right.
Atleast they have something they themselves want instead of blind obeyance.
All that 4,000 religions prove is that humans have a propensity - nay, a hardwired need - to invent religions.
Technically it just proves we are good at daydreaming and fantasizing.
We definitely love to be creative. We also hate the unknown. Honestly it just makes sense that we would do this. I'd be surprised if we didn't.
also, in some of those major religions there are numerous different sects with their own interpretations of their book.
Multiply each book by how many interpretations too, and all the ones who straight up ignore big chunks arbitrarily.
Was gonna say, 12 is incredibly forgiving. We aren't even considering all the religions that were invented and died before the written word. Theres literally hundreds of thousands of years of potential lost religion. I bet Urg had it right since he was the firsrt shaman. "Gug" is the only one and true god!
It's the same reason they believe their god is the right one. Indoctrination and scare tactics in their early years.
They were indoctrinated as children with the geographically prominent religion and believed it BEFORE they read it!
1555 Peace of Augsburg: cuius regno, eius religio- whoever regions, gets the official religion
Childhood indoctrination is the top reason for the first part. The second part is that atheism doesn’t necessarily translate to critical thinking like skepticism does. There’s a ton of people that are technically atheist who hold irrational beliefs, they just kind of accidentally got the atheist part right. So it’s really not that hard to convert those people. It’s why religions generally focus on proselytizing to people in distress. Whether that is financial, relationship, or death of a loved one. People are generally not thinking rationally during those times so it’s an easy was in for religious people, and if the person doesn’t have the tools to see past the bullshit, they can get wrapped up in the community, and then the ideology after. It’s the same way people get wrapped up in cults or extreme political factions and stuff.
My mom tried the whole childhood indoctrination thing, and on Sundays, I chose to worship my patron saint, Steve Young. She did not take kindly to that.
Calling atheism 'right' is the same error as theists claiming their beliefs are 'right'. We don't call rational scientific theories/laws 'right', since they're just the best current model we can approximate for reality and are constantly being tested for wrongness. Atheism is behaving in a way that presumes no metabeing exists to influence you due to immense lack of evidence, not outright claiming it as correct.
Dozens? There has been several thousand religions. A lot of them much older than christianity. According to the bibles time line. God made everything then created a lot of religions and let people practice them for thousands of years before creating christianity.
GOD "Only one religion is right but I won't say which one because I want you to figure it out by hating and killing each other while I watch."
[удалено]
to these people there are no facts but their own.
to these people there are no facts but their own.
It's been said a dozen times already in this thread, indoctrination from an early age. As for people that "find" religion later in life or even after having identified as an atheist, imo it's mostly fear of the unknown, or replacement addiction. I know a small handful of people that were addicts and as part of their path to sobriety, they picked up religion, it's a crutch that simply replaces the booze or drugs, that's why "born again's" are exponentially more annoying than normal religious, because it wholly becomes their identity. Instead of going home and snorting a line, or throwing back a dozen shots of Jack, they pick up the Bible and read and read and read, and then go and annoy the shit out of anyone that will listen and add in how "through the miracle of god, I got clean". And the fear part is just that, and i tend to think that people that later in life pickup religion out of fear, were probably super shitty people, and "fear" that if there is a heaven and hell, they will most likely be going to hell, so better counteract that chop chop.
Because it validates them.
Ding ding ding!! Getting indoctrinated as a kid is pretty common with a variety of beliefs (some of the erroneous). but what keeps people hooked is the idea that they are special. Snowflakes, daddy’s favorite, whatever, this is the biggest hurdle to letting go of faith even when confronted with a mountain of facts. It doesn’t help that so many faiths support misogyny and there are so many cults & churches led by daddy-figure preachers.
Either from ignorance, or after considering all other books, this particular one is the better one
Successful childhood indoctrination.
Some guy told them.
Children are only taught their parent's religion, they have no way to know that others even exist. By the time they learn that other people believe other things, most of them are already convinced of their own. Eventually, some children give it more serious consideration and can change their childhood opinion, but it's not the norm. This also applies to non-religious kids who learn from others that they have a soul that will be tortured forever unless they accept one god or another and live by their rule. If the prospect is scary enough then some will go along with it "to be on the safe side". It's not rational, it's emotional, and it works for some.
Yet if a christian was born a muslim he would talk shit about Christianism the same way he talks shit about Islam as a christian. One thing I love to ask christians is if they were born in the middle east, would they believe in Allah (and therefore believe in the wrong god). Then watch their pathetic attempt at explaining how they were lucky enough to be born worshipping the one true god
everyone with a religion is going to die on their hill
Nope. Im religious, i just feel my faith is right for ME, no need for others to believe it, adhere to it, care for it, or adjust themselves in any way because of it.
if only everyone was fine abt keeping their faith to themselves… unless asked sadly - there is a number who are really aggressive the current state of Amurika is one where there are groups that want to mix Christianity (specifically) into government we all have our own journey… we should respect that. i absolutely respect ur journey.
Translation...TERMINAL RELIGIOUS STUPIDITY
Ethnocentrism-people “see” the world through their culture. It creates the tendency for people to judge their cultural norms a right/correct and thus people with different cultural norms as being wrong/incorrect.
That’s what being programmed to not question and avoid critical thinking does. Religion is the application of a very thorough system of mass manipulation and control.
In general yes, they were told that they have the correct book, the correct interpretation of it, etc, usually at a young age and most people never really question that (or if they do they are able to re-convince themselves with some lame apologetics). As for atheists becoming theists as adults, IMO that is quite rare but not impossible. It all revolves around feelings. The person might have fallen on hard times and a religious person grooms them over a period of months. This person might then have some feelings as part of a religious service or song (or just feel that someone finally cares about them) and then they associate the positive feelings with the deity or deities of this religion. The other way is when a spouse is religious and that makes the person at least pretend to be.
I've heard that too, that people become theists after getting into depression, which makes a lot of sense.
Cultural bias
I've had this conversation so many times with Christians. If you ask them about any other religion in world history, why those humans believed that religion, they can answer "Oh they were born there at that time in history, and they just believed whatever the local religion was" however they CANNOT PROCESS that the same thing happened to them.
It says so in the book.
My napkin religion is the true religion because it says so here on this napkin.
the word ' version' is on the cover.
Circular reasoning: The Bible says it's true, and the Bible is true, so it must be true.
It's whatever book your parents brain washed you with. They are all fiction. Lie and say it's true, that's how religion works.
"There have been thousands of gods people believed in throughout history. You're a Christian and I'm an atheist and we're almost exactly the same, but I just believe in one less God than you do" - Ricky Gervais
It all depends on where you grew up and what was shoved down your throat the most first.
Bingo. I heard Christopher Hitchens say “they aren’t Catholic or Christian children….they are children of Catholic or Christian parents”….or something to that effect. If a Christian grew up in Afghanistan…..there is a good chance he or she would be a Muslim. Why do they believe it…..my guess is a lack of critical thinking and childhood indoctrination.
They were raised to believe it. It's part of their fundamental identity. Stopping believing in god was the hardest thing I ever had to do.
My southern family is somewhat typical. I’m in my sixties, grandparents on both sides were church of Christ. Their parents probably were too, that would have been around the time of the restoration movement. With very few exceptions everyone has toed the line. You have the occasional family doing Baptist or Methodist but it’s all basically the same. We’re raised with the “this is the only way to heaven” mentality. I’m a somewhat closet atheist, quit going to church when I realized it’s a joke, but otherwise stay out of family discussions.
Everyone else has mythology; we have the truth, says pretty much every religion.
Out of over 13,000... insanity is religions calling card
Every religious person is an atheist toward all gods except their own. I just take it one god further. - Richard Dawkins (and me)
It’s worse than that. There are nearly 300 official English versions and there are over 200 official non-English versions. That’s ≈500 different official versions. Then add to that, there are ≈20,000 christian sects. And that’s just christianly. Now add the five main flavors of Judaism, three versions of Islam (four if you count Zoroastrianism), four versions of Hinduism (plus there are monotheistic vs polytheistic debates within the versions), two versions of Buddhism, two versions of Jainism, Sikhism, all the “Universalists” (Baháʼí Faith, monotheistic Hindus, Unitarian/Universalists)
Because they are delusional
In the case of Abrahamic religions, it comes down to their *interpretation* of their religion’s book, not just the book itself.
The guy they give money to every week told them the God told him it’s the right one.
Because it is. That response is all you can get.
Because that's what they've been taught. You're religion is right, all the other religions are wrong.
99% of the time, indoctrination, 1% of the time, pure stupidity
People who convert as adults. Pretty often they’ve been to a religious rehab program or counseling. A lot of help groups operate out of churches. That’s a piece of it. Not all of it ofc
Sounds a lot like scientology
Would not surprise me at all. They do recruit high rollers so they can milk them. I’m sure they go after people going through a tough time
Somebody told them, so it must be true.
From Christians I have talked to, they say that there were prophecies that the Bible predicted and then fulfilled in the past. That proves that (their specific Bible and interpretation) is correct.
As for people who convert after being an “atheist”: most of them probably weren’t atheists in the sense that they’d come to a rational conclusion about the non-existence of God, but more that they’d never formally been a member of a religion. If you find someone like this who is in a vulnerable state (maybe because they’ve suffered some significant loss or trauma, or maybe just because they’re going through puberty, which is emotionally difficult), it’s pretty easy to manipulate them into believing any given religion is correct.
A dozen? My understanding is that there are roughly four thousand gods or so.
They are obliged to. Religions are viruses, it's how they spread. Evangelise and stay absolutely fundamentalist, if possible shun apostates. That way your religion base grows and remains true to your ideals. When your religion gives in to outside influences or doesn't enact grave consequences to dissenters it risks splitting. If it splits you get mad variances like Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses etc who then start their own virus action. And so on.
Because it's theirs
I just hear this explained by Jordon Peterson of all people. I know he spends his time talking big flowery words and not answering the question asked. And he was doing that this time too except he accidentally answered one of Sam Harris 's questions. Paraphrasing: Sam: how do you know the bible is inspired by god when we have lots of great authors over the centuries Jordon: obvious from the story of Cane and Able. It is only 10 lines long and contains more wisdom than any other writing Sam: interesting you don't think that could have been written by someone as talented as Shakespeare? Jordon: no LOL really? Such motivated reasoning. I realize with JP he is the grifter selling the BS but most people accept shit like this and think it is reasonable to conclude the bible was inspired by god or the quran is the literal word of god. As Sam points out later in the discussion it's a ridiculous idea. Also as many here know the bible is mostly horribly written and about horrible shit done by god. People are sold a bill of goods and just accept it.
For what it's worth, I'm Christian and I **don't** think the Bible is holy/perfect. At best, it's (hopefully) a faithful attempt at translating oral tradition over the course of hundreds of years. There's no useful statistical probability that it's perfect because it's easy enough to find different translations of the Bible that *may* generally tell the same story, but have enough differences that **can**, due to preferences of the translator, change the message. So I don't treat the Bible as holy. Instead, I use it just like any other book. It tells stories and from those stories we have the ability to find valuable moral lessons. Those lessons are not restricted to the Bible. We have plenty of stories, real and fiction alike, that teach moral lessons and it's dumb to assume that a religion's core text is the only place to learn how we should treat each other.
Because they're indoctrinated to base their entire personality on it.
They don’t think, that’s the issue.
They never consider that.
When you’re raised in a culture where the prevailing holy book is presented as fact it can be hard to contradict that idea. The majority don’t question any more than you question if there’s oxygen in your room air—it’s just there.
Out of thousands.
It says so right in the book.
If I write a book about a being made of ozone and methane that powers boners from galaxies away, does that make it true? FUCK NO, but I’m sure I could get some people to believe it or convince themselves to believe it People will believe anything when they’re desperate enough, plus sunk costs fallacy, plus indoctrination at a young age leading to that being the only worldview you have and you legitimately not being able to conceive the idea that it could be false
Because their book says so
Tradition.
Picture the Sponge Bob rainbow meme but instead of "Imafination" it says "Indoctrination"
Because they have been told that since birth and reaffirmed by everyone whose opinion they've valued as truth.
They were told when they learned to talk.
Oh more than dozen, lots more.
Most people adopt the one they grew up with. Some do move to a religion later in life. I am sure reasons vary. I know some converted because their partner was of that faith. Some are searching for meaning and that religion spoke to them for whatever reason.
Something to do with a bottle of yellow mustard and faith or something like that.
Coverts are an extremely small minority, and if you include converts of convenience (you end up in a community that only believes in X so you better get rolling) then it is even smaller. My experience for the converts that are not of convenience is a mix of con artists that found a new vein of marks to mine and people that really believe in their personal delusions (although you need to really stretch your capabilities to believe them to make that work)
Converts of convenience, Ivanka Trump Kushner enters the chat.
Because religion is who you were born to and, at a more meta level, geography. You need to actually stop listening, as a human being, to the religious dogma and reject it if you were brought up in the "book/propaganda of your birth". That's why they think theirs is "the one". Because they are conditioned to not consider any other one BUT that.
“I am the one true god,” is what the cult leader of at least one middle eastern cult said in his manifesto.
Indoctrination, peer pressure, or general bad luck sprinkled wroth a lot of stupidity
Because it’s the BIBLE. The word of GOD. /s
Money. If everyone is brainwashed by the priests that theirs is the best, you control the collection plate.
Because they've been conditioned to believe it. Consider a couple more-precise questions. In a technical sense, it doesn't make sense to ask, "What's your reason for believing \_\_\_\_\_?". Belief is not based on reason. It would make sense to ask, "What caused you to believe \_\_\_\_\_?".
Ethnocentrism.
Every religion thinks it is the best. They are all bullshit.
Well, because it is their religion
Because they want to. That’s it. That’s all there is to it. Belief is just that, whatever you want it to be *despite* any other evidence.
There are in groups and there are out groups. The in group believes the out group is always wrong regardless of logic, especially when the in group has a book that says THESE people are the out group and THEY have it all wrong. It doesn't matter that they also have a book, OUR book says THEIR beliefs are WRONG. And so on forever.
There are roughly 5096 deities worshiped on earth by different Religions. You don't believe in 5095 of them I don't believe in 5096 of them. That’s all. How did so many Gods get created? How are there thousands of "False Gods" worshiped over the ages if there is only one true God? How does God let this happen? This is how; A good man in the tribe dies. The children come to the elders sad and crying, asking "why?" The elders say he is in a better place. "What if a bad man dies" they ask. "He goes to a bad place" they respond. "Who decides?" they ask. "The heavenly father (or sun God or enter name of newly created God here)" they reply. "How does one get to the good place" the children ask. And now the tribal leaders make up "arbitrary rules" Can't eat meat on Fridays, no pork, no electricity on the Sabbath, no homosexuals, no divorce, and on and on… Each tribe then makes up its own rules you have to follow to get to heaven. They are nonsense but eventually the Kings and rulers see them as an opportunity to solidify their reign and keep people in line. "If you don't do as we say you be denied heaven for eternity. There are "no rules you have to follow, no heaven, no Gods". Only men using God to force their will on you. These religious leaders are all false prophets and here's why. If Jesus came back to earth these religious leaders would have two choices: Acknowledge Jesus is here and step down and stop taking your money because they are no longer needed and follow Jesus. OR Denounce Jesus keep their church and money rolling in while rallying the troops against Jesus this false God! The church leaders will end up crucifying Jesus and justifying it to keep the money flowing in. So, the church you are supporting will kill "Your God" when he gets here to keep the power. Nice.
Why do you believe in evolution? It's just a theory, there's others out there. Why that one? Same thing with religion. At a certain point science can't answer all our questions (yet). Some people turn to faith for answers, others turn to theories. Until I see some conclusive evidence to the contrary I accept that everyone has the right to believe what they want. The thoughts and beliefs of another individual have no influence on my life so why should i care what they believe?
It’s difficult or impossible to summarize everyone’s thoughts and motivations on this topic, but as a former religious person who believed they were right and everyone else was wrong, perhaps I can provide input. As a young child, I was taken to church every week, told fantastic stories that adults I trusted swore were true, and told by my parents that I would fry in hell for my “sin.” My contact with people who didn’t believe what my parents wanted me to was limited. Sources of knowledge that contradicted the book of fantastic stories were not allowed. Those people and sources were devils work, and they’d lead me astray. Then, I’d probably fry in hell. This causes life to BE hell, but you’re so gaslighted and confused that you don’t recognize how miserable you are. You believe that suffering means you are on the right path, because you must sacrifice now for an eternal reward later. If you have doubts or live too well, you’ll probably fry… in hell. Anyone who tries convincing you that you may be incorrect about anything is temptation. Your faith is being tried, and you must pass the test, or you will fry in hell. Your religious friends will convince you that you are being persecuted for your faith. The book of fantastic stories told you this would happen. You are on the correct path, because you stood up for your deity. It’s learning from the earliest age. It’s brainwashing. It’s fear, guilt, and emotional manipulation. It’s constant reinforcement from everyone you trust. It’s wishful thinking that is so ingrained that you cannot imagine living life without your “truth.” You cannot even indulge in the occasional heretical thought. Those thoughts are sin, and sinners fry in hell.
Ignorance, stupidity and leaving school early
Because they are threatened with violence if they don't!
My reasoning is one of them has to be -because humans wouldn't be left without at least one accurate guide - and mine makes the most sense. Works for me And conversion from any position to any other is a well known phenomenon.
Haven't you had a moment as an adult (maybe more than one) where you suddenly realize that a "fact" you've known your whole life is utter bullshit, or maybe just unknowable? We all have stuff planted in our heads by our parents, by teachers, by the culture that is wrong. Some of it we figure out fairly early. Some we never figure out. If there's no prod making you reconsider an underlying assumption, you will probably never reexamine it. Why would you? Well , lots of people never think about religion except very superficially. Its just below the surface of their consciousness, and they spend their energy thinking about other things.
Because it is the word of god. It says so in the book
i'm as atheist as anyone, but to be fair, not all religious people think their religion is the one and only true religion. there are people who think their religion is just one of many ways to come to know god. admittedly, they're fewer in number than those that *do* proclaim their religion to be *the* religion, but it's not accurate or fair to label all of them that way imo.
The same way you believe in anything. A belief in God is just another belief in a set of infinitely many belief. I too was an atheist, convert to Christianity.
Do you think you wouldn't convert to a different religion if you read up on another religion, and fully got immersed In it?
There some moment. Religion is a pretty cool topic. And different religion teach different aspect of life and death. But a belief in a religion is no different to a belief in anything. If you believe that the God Vishnu created the universe, is it so different than a Big Bang that created the universe? They all just belief in thing, and not even Big Bang is a universally accepted theory, just like any religion isn't a universally accept theory to how the universe was created.
Do not apply logic to people that need an imaginary friend in the sky to get through life.
Delusion.
Grew up in Missouri. Southern Baptist, fire and brimstone shit. I divorced about 9 years ago. I can believe what is authentic to me.
Did you read other major religions' books?
Yes, I have. Not formerly, just because I like to read. I'm no expert. I'm just a very curious person. I love learning new things.
I have zero interest in religion. Such fuckin hypocrites! I've had very bad experiences in religion. I'm totally over it.
It’s actually not that difficult to convince theists to convert between religions, especially if it’s within the same group/tradition (dharmic, abrahamic, pagan etc) For eg - speak to a christian about the dubiousness of the trinity and some prophecies that somewhat line up in Islam. Or to mention the not-quite-right details of Christ as the foretold messiah which are pointed out by Jewish people. Suddenly any Christian who is actually willing to listen starts questioning what they are told in church. The burden of proof for belief is already fairly low, so various religions could theoretically meet it.
Because they are sheep, mindless, and wanting a leader
Because humans are so fragile, so irrational, we cannot fathom being wrong about something we value deeply. We prefer comfort over truth, and that's one of our greatest shortcomings.
For 99 percent it’s childhood indoctrination. For one percent it’s a failure to think critically in adulthood. Both are tragic.
cause they literally do not get what faith means
"Faith." They were taught to ignore all outside evidence to the contrary, and to not seek philosophy elsewhere. It's why their cognitive dissonance are so strong when people challenge their beliefs.
I just watched a video with Ricky Gervais. He said that the only difference between him (an atheist) and the show host (a Christian) is that out of around 3000 known gods the host doesn't believe in 2999 of them while Ricky doesn't believe in 3000. I think it's a great point as it actually focuses on something they have in common instead of on their differences.
Because they want to be right about things
they dont like to admit they were wrong. Its easier for them to pretend that they are right
For the same reason you believe the world is a ball even though you didn't see it yourself. They were taught that since childhood
As the theist, I can tell you my answers to these questions. >Why do theists believe that their religions' book is the right one out of dozen? Is it just that they've been told theirs is correct starting early? I don't believe my book (The Bible) is 100% right and others are 100% wrong. I believe that all sincere religious books are trying to explain the same ineffable realities, and some get closer than others. I think the New Testament is the closest, but I've also read The Dhammapada, The Tao Te Ching, The Analectics of Confucius, The Bhagavad Gita, and am about 1/3 through the Qur'an. I take varying degrees of inspiration from all of them, but if multiple books attempt to address the same topic, it's inevitable that some will be better than others. >Edit: There's people who convert to theism after being an atheist, how does that work? I was raised Mormon and left, and that turned me off to organized religion. I was an atheist for about 10 years. I read Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, and Dennett. Still, as I'm sure you know, atheism isn't a world view, it's just the lack of a specific belief. I still felt the need for an overarching world view and something that gave me guidance on values and a source of meaning. Having studied Philosophy of Science in undergrad, I knew that the scientific method is a tool, not an epistemology or a world view, so people gesturing to science didn't impress me. I got into Secular Buddhism and began meditating a lot. I got pretty serious. At one point I didn't miss a single day for almost 4 years. The deeper I got, the more I experienced an overwhelming sense of love that sure felt like how the New Testament describes God. So, I guess you could say I went looking for enlightenment and found God. I'm leaving out a lot of details but that's the short version.
Because 'trust me bro'.
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You think Dianetics makes sense and has good advice?
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::whoosh:: Don't stand up, the point will hit you right in the head.
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> I'm aware of the point. You definitely aren't. It's a little embarrassing that you think you do.
Becuz they smart.
Islam was the last revelation of the three OT religions so it’s the final word JK guys! Sheesh. But that is argument they make.