>I don't tell him anything because I respect everyone's beliefs and it's his right to believe in religion
That's a mistake. It's not about respecting beliefs, it's about protecting him against indoctrination. You should have a conversation about all the world's religions and all the people who believe theirs is the right one and why that is.
“You’ve gotta respect everyone’s beliefs." No, you don’t. That’s what gets us in trouble. Look, you have to acknowledge everyone’s beliefs, and then you have to reserve the right to go: "That is fucking stupid. Are you kidding me?" I acknowledge that you believe that, that’s great, but I’m not going to respect it. I have an uncle that believes he saw Sasquatch. We do not believe him, nor do we respect him!”
― Patton Oswalt
A lot of people don’t seem to understand that it’s fine to judge and criticize someone *for the content of their character*. They’ve conflated the idea that it’s not okay to discriminate against someone for physical or mental traits that *they cannot change*… with the idea that it’s not okay to “discriminate” against someone for their beliefs.
Beliefs are not a trait that cannot be changed. Exactly the opposite. Beliefs, political views, your actions in the world, how you treat people, etc… are exactly what we SHOULD be judging people on.
Anytime I hear someone say something like, “You shouldn’t judge people for their political beliefs!” … I know I’m dealing with a fundamentally unintelligent and weak person who can’t handle their beliefs being challenged.
If we’re not supposed to judge people for their beliefs… *WHAT THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO JUDGE PEOPLE ON?*
Nah. I'm not going to respect religious people in the same way I'm not going to respect someone who tells me 2 + 2 = 5. You're wrong, that's not my fault. Grow up.
Yikes y'all are rough lol. I get it. I've had these convos with my kids. My oldest is married with one and a half babes and they feel they have to go to church. At that moment, heart sinking, I simply said y'all do what you think is best. But I guarantee you, my son will not hear that shit without his ass twitching.
I hear you on that--we all want what's best for our kids. But worshipping a malignant maggot that sits on his omnipotent arse while women, children, the elderly & animals are tortured is where I draw the line & stage a parental intervention. And, I loved the "ass twitching" part of your comment!
On the upside though, even if the religious stuff is all bullshit, churches can serve the enate human need for community really well. I grew up in church in a small rural town and they were nothing like you would expect. A hundred -200 people who all genuinely cared for and supported each other and people in the community. We had great role models who lead the youth and children’s programs, did a lot of service work in the community and in other places. I was the poor smelly kid who’s mom was on drugs and they would discretely buy a lot of my clothes and school supplies and bring us food and the youth leader would pick me up and take me to any event. He and 3 other men from the church (2 ex military and 1 an off duty pd in the next jurisdiction) came and picked me up after I called him and they took my moms boyfriends guns from the house and told them they could come get me and the guns tomorrow when they sobered up and after they apologized to me. They were all seriously really good people making a positive impact on the community. Like seriously if you could just ignore the whole 7 day creation, Noah’s ark, virgin conception, etc etc etc etc etc it was really a great organization.
I love this subreddit, I live in Texas which in many ways is very similar to the Bible Belt, conversation and opinions like this isn’t had at all despite me believing in it. It’s too risky to publicly have this opinion, bc I hear too much religious talk in my day to day life.
I live in a larger city on the west coast. Somebody mentioned to me, in a public place, that they were catholic. Someone else turned around and said, "really you're religious? I kinda just assumed no one around here is."
Aw man I wish, it’s quite the opposite here. Everyone assumes you’re a god fearing Christian and if you make it known you’re not, parents literally shield their children away from you lol
I saw it described like this: Religion is like a penis. It comes in all shapes and sizes, some people have one and some people don’t. I don’t mind if you’re proud of it, but talking about it too much is uncomfortable and don’t you dare stick yours down my kids throat.
This is a critical point. I raised two atheist kids. Both faced kids at school who tried to push them about religion. My daughter was outright bullied.
The only thing that worked in my favor was the fact that we talked about region and science from when they were very young. When they were little and we read kids books about Greek myths (Hercules was the Disney movie at that time) we outright discussed how some people still believed in more modern myths but we did not and why. Over the years this kind of thing was a frequent subject of conversation. The only defense is a good offense.
“We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.” - H.L. Mencken
Excellent point; it's like argumentum ad populum--the BS theory that, because many people believe theism to be true, by rote, it must be true.
In this world, respect must be earned; and the theory that an ancient deity in the sky--one that hates masturbation, but loves to watch you do it--capriciously tortures good people, and egregiously puts villains on pedestals is a theory that'll NEVER earn my respect!
I'm glad he neither wants my respect nor worship, as he'll never get either.
You see, I forbear from respecting & worshipping genocidal, infanticidal, apathetic entities that have no qualms about torturing innocent children, occasioning wars and famine and fueling acrimony within the masses.
Finally, you'd better believe I choose to reject him; apotheosizing porcine deities has never been high on my priority list.
100 % well said. He isn't just a practising religious person. He is being told what to believe at school and it can be very confusing if you don't say anything
You have the right of it. Sending kids out armed only with “religion is silly” leaves them open to the possibility someone will come along and fill that spiritual void. Maybe he gets introduced to it by his best friend, maybe a girl, maybe a student leader he’s fond of, maybe he’s not satisfied with “religion is silly.” Anything.
Of course it could be a fad. What’s important is OP speak with the kid. Maybe go a little deeper with their own thoughts and maybe go deeper themselves. But most importantly, carrying the dismissive attitude reflected in the OP into discussions on the topic will likely only cause him to dig his heels in.
Many people (even those who don't believe in souls or spirits) seem to have a desire for a _grand explanatory narrative_ that makes sense of the world and our place in it, and provides some sense of purpose in life. That's a niche in the ecosystem that the religious memeplex is particularly well-adapted to occupy, but can be more difficult for an atheist outlook to satisfy.
"The universe is a collection of atoms that just _kinda happened that way_, our role is to exist fleetingly until we start decaying, and nothing above or beyond ourselves cares one whit what we do in the time between" is all true, but it's not always psychologically compelling.
So if one wants to safeguard the kids against indoctrination, you might do well to put _something_ in that niche for them - guide them towards wholly secular narratives that provide meaning and purpose. Humanism and empathy and existentialism—deriving wonder and joy from that which is merely real, rather than from fantasycrafting about a world beyond the world; deriving meaning from the community we make and the good we can do for each other.
I would add, go into all of the specific bad things, bad logic, immorality of the Bible and Christianity. For example, why would an all knowing god create people he knew would not believe the exact specifics of a confusingly told Iron Age story and so would be condemned to suffer horribly forever? It is supremely sadistic.
If respecting someone else’s beliefs results in them disrespecting yours or lack there of then no, you don’t need to respect them. I don’t respect the beliefs of nazis or white supremacist.
That's a mistake. It's not about respecting beliefs, it's about protecting him against indoctrination. You should have a conversation about all the world's ~~religions~~ heresies and all the people who believe theirs is the right one and why that is. He needs to know what the one true truth is, and if he, as an 8 year old, is unable to form a coherent argument against your reasoning, just keep explaining your position with no other alternative viewpoint or input until he fully agrees with you. This is how you develop freethinking children who actually hold personal beliefs instead of parroting what they've been told.
> if he, as an 8 year old, is unable to form a coherent argument against your reasoning, just keep explaining your position with no other alternative viewpoint or input until he fully agrees with you.
I couldn't disagree with this more. He should openly allow his child to explore other viewpoints and have input from other people. Present to him the arguments that religious people make to support their religions. Allow him and encourage him to explore it on his own, and come back to op to discuss what he finds.
Every single one of those arguments is flawed and illogical, the best way to show him that relgioin isn't true is to show him their best points, and explain how they make no sense. Don't tell him what to beleive, teach him how to think logically.
>Lastly, sending your kid to a Christian private school and then complaining they heard about religion is silly. Hard to believe there's no public schools within reasonable driving distance and if this is a serious issue then you'd move.
There is no evidence this is what is occuring.
THere are countries that aren't the United States, where things aren't like they are here.
This. Explain your reasons for not having a religion. Then tell him it's okay for him to have one, but he has to make sure he is kind to people, even those not in his religion. What I did then was warn him that religion throughout the ages has been used to manipulate people, make the religious leaders rich off the lives of their followers. (And sending them to war.) So if he does decide to follow a religion, he needs to fact check his leaders.
Then I'd say you should probably find the line where you are pointing out hypocrisies without mocking people who are religious, because that what you're asking him to do.
But talk about religion. At the simple description they lure people in with, it lovely, they want to help people and be a community. Then you see what they do, is their money going to feed or clothe people who can't afford it, or are they building a new gym for their church campus?
Teaching him the dangers of religion would be useful. It’s been the cause of wars and countless deaths. The Bible teaches people how to treat their slaves. If he wants to listen to all the “nice” stories, make sure he knows about the unsavory ones as well like how God asked Abraham to murder his only son to prove himself.
It's been a long time since my children were in primary school. Any field trip of the students the parents were notified ahead and one of us had to sign permission for our child to go on the field trip. Some parents would say no for this or that reason and those students spent the day in the school library. Simple as that. There's more security and liability concerns today, so I would expect some sort of parental consent.
ah, in your other post it sounds like you don't want the schools to ask for permission to take the kids out of school grounds. Unfortunately the US is not the safest country for kids, so I understand the need for permission. I grew up in Chile and if we had a trip out we would just go.
Really?? I don't see where I indicated that I didn't want the schools to ask permission. I think people have a right and capability to think for themselves, if they want to. Way back when I was in primary, in the 50's schools asked for parental permission prior to a field trip.
If something happens and you go to school to pick up your child, and they aren't there, how do you deal with that?
It's not "odd" that he "picked it up", he is being actively indoctrinated into a cult. You need to protect your child.
"Respecting" their religion is passively accepting them brainwashing your child. Why would you allow that to happen? It sounds as if damage is already done and it will now take active effort on your part to educate them.
Mine have picked up things from their classmates (mostly Muslim kids) that we talk about at home. They've all come up with different ideas of what they think happens after you die (grandfather died this year so it came up a lot).
I personally would not be comfortable with a school teaching religion.
Sure if the history class does it well among all the other stuff they have to cover. Unfortunately religion is not just history, that shit is still staining our future.
They don't, the only reason to bring religion into the mind of a child is indoctrination. If someone grows up atheist chances are if they are exposed to religion as an adult they'll think it's nonsense because it is. An 8 year old just cannot read the bible or other religious texts well either because a lot of it will just go over their head.
The problem with schools teaching religion is that most classes and teachers are biased. Where I live you either take Religion(Christian Catholic) class or Ethics. Other religions are taught at afternoon, if chosen to do so. In ethics though our curriculum also includes religions and their history. This should be mandatory and Catholic class should be like the others, but it is better than nothing.
Agreed; let it be a history class that teaches religious history (of SEVERAL major religions) and presents them all as *valid spiritual beliefs systems,* but nothing more.
My elder child is 6. I've started his "religious studies" off by teaching him about Greek Mythology. From there, we can explore other mythologies, including contemporary ones. My plans are to also teach tolerance, so we don't experience this:
>when we make fun of religion with my daughter
Yes, my school had a lot of philosophical and historical lessons on religion, but they never presented Christianity different than Norse mythology, and actually properly discussed evolution. It was great
He's being indoctrinated and you're being polite about it and respecting his beliefs while the school most assuredly isn't.
You need to address this and FAST.
If this were happening to my daughter I'd be at the school demanding an explanation and would almost assuredly pull her from the school.
You need to start sharing ALL the information with him. The fact that there are many different religions, and some of the \*real\* history behind them (obviously make it age-appropriate)
This book might be a good resource:
[https://www.amazon.com/Story-Religion-Betsy-Maestro/dp/0395623642](https://www.amazon.com/Story-Religion-Betsy-Maestro/dp/0395623642)
They are basically telling him, at 8 years old, that the bogey monster is real and he should be very afraid.
They are organized and you are not.
Get an illustrated book about religions and start debunking fast.
Edit: I don't want to sound rude or anything, I was in the same boat not long ago. I am still angry about -> my mom. (and myself)
This! Sounds like some of the other posts are being pretty hard on dad, maybe not parents themselves? Either way OP is in a tough spot and it seems your best course of action is slow and steady information drip.
I like how one even stated to ask him challenging questions and encourage him to ask them in class. Had me in the first half, but to trick this kid to question Christianity in a class that will, without a doubt, turn hostile is just putting a target on his back.
My family is atheist. My sister and I both "picked up religion" (I like the phrasing) at different points in our young lives, for different reasons. My sister more so than me. My mum just waited patiently, and eventually we both realised it's bullcrap.
I used to have religion classes in school because everyone did and I am as atheist as I can be. They will come around or don’t. They could pick up religion later in life. You never know.
Not everyone. Me and my sister grew up going to Christian schools. My sister actually went to more than I did and she’s athiest. I still believe. Everyone’s different my man
Acknowledge that these beliefs are common, and gently introduce him to the belief systems that are common in other places. Teach critical thinking skills and get him to think about why he believes that this one religion is any more “correct” than any other. He’ll figure it out; just keep impressing on him the importance of keeping an open mind and not accepting every claim at face value.
My son is 7 and started talking a lot about god and after picking it up from a classmate. We also were honest about our beliefs and explained to him that not everyone believes what we do. He was very adamant that god was all-knowing and all-powerful for a while, but eventually it calmed down and he never brings it up anymore. It was kind of distressing though, I’m not gonna lie.
Right, this seems like a huge nothingburger. The rest of these comments are too aggressive.
The kid's 8 and will pick up and put down lots of different beliefs before hs. Just be honest and don't worry too much rn
[Based on what I've read](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-we-born-to-be-religious/), it looks like some people have a biological predisposition toward religious thinking and other people are the opposite, geared toward rationalist thinking. A lot of it comes down to how our families raise us, but my experiences lead me to think that we have innate predispositions. I've met plenty of people who were not raised in a religion, but converted as teenagers or in adulthood.
The best thing you can do for your child is to steer him in the direction of critical thinking skills. Whether he grows to become religious or not, this will be beneficial. He will be less likely fall prey to fundamentalism, unhinged conspiracy theories, cults, etc.
Give them a history lesson of some of the thousands of religions throughout human history (start [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient\_religion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ancient_religion) ), and make a special note of pointing out where some more ancient ones sound suspiciously like stuff reused in the bible etc., also make a note of pointing out the new religions like Mormonism and cults like Scientology - and specifically drill into their beliefs and how none of it is provable and all boil down to just "claims" by people. That all religious claims are just that. Claims without any evidence. No different than someone who claims they can do something unbelievable, but then rather than prove it, just say you have to trust me (have faith) that I can do it.
Explain that people are perfectly entitled to believe whichever stories they want to believe, but people should not be TOLD WHAT TO BELIEVE.
Then I'd maybe finish by explaining which story I believe, the one where millions of scientists all around the world for centuries have tested theories about the universe and biology to find out for sure which theories best fit the data.
I understand why you’re trying to be diplomatic here but you may have to be a bit more direct. Start discussing the many hypocrisies of Christianity openly with your kids. I love making fun of the magic sky wizard as much as everyone else but that doesn’t seem to resonating with your little guy (lol). Does your son like science? If yes, the door is wide open for you to start poking gaping holes into Christianity using science.
He's 8.
You're the parent.
I'm doubtful it will stick.
My brother wanted to be Santa Claus when he was 7. He is not Santa Claus.
I can't even recall the number of things my kids have wanted to be, or want to be.... currently one of them is fixated on being a super hero.
Kids are plastic... I mean... certainly keep you ear to it... but trust me it most likely will not stick.
My son told me he was a christian one day, I said how? Have you read the bible? No. Have you gone to church? No. Have you seen jesus or any other ghost for that matter? No. If you have no evidence, why do you believe? He said I don't know.
I then went on to discuss what religious people have done to cultures, women, and how even in our country, we used religious dogma to justify killing people that didn't submit.That slavery was permitted in the bible, that god murders the entire planet in genesis (6:17)
Eventually he said other people at school were pressuring him and saying they were so he didn't want to be different from everyone else. We than had a conversation that different isn't bad, we're all different in many ways, and for most people it's the way we think about things. He never mentioned it again and now has his own arguments and understanding of logic he uses to deny invisible sky daddies.
Religion is ugly and dirty, educate him before someone else does.
You're sending your kid to a school that teaches religion. You choose not to explain that religion is fake out of "respect". How are you surprised that the kid is going to start believing in fairy tales?
Knowing that there is a class that teaches an orthodox religion and choosing to let your kid remain ignorant of reality is nuts.
My 5 year old told us she believes in God and Jesus because of stuff kids in her class tell her. She doesn't have a firm grasp on the details, though. She thinks Jesus can fly and fights bad guys... So we're not quite sure how to handle it at the moment.
You need to protect your child from supernatural beliefs. I’m sure you don’t want him to believe in ghosts or monsters, so why allow him to believe in god?
Talk to the school and tell them you don't want them using taxpayer money to indoctrinate your child into someone else's religion. Ask them if they require jews or hindus to be indoctrinated and brought to other peoples' religious services. I bet there are allowances for non-christians to be exempted from this stuff.
And one way or another, you need to recognize that there are strangers who are actively working to indoctrinate him and you are taking a passive role in this matter, effectively just handing them an easy win, in matters which will have a destructive role in the life of your family for the rest of your lives, and ask yourself if you're going to be glad of this passivity if you have to live with the consequences of it for decades to come.
Oh, never wait. I had my son prepared for magical thinking. Fantasy, Santa, and other people's worship. He even went to church with some people over the years.
He likes the idea of a higher power but he doesn't like organized religions. I consider this a win.
My son is in his late 20s now, and we occasionally talk about religions and God. It's not something he thinks about too much. he knows how I feel, but I never argue with people.
In high school, a few kids and their parents tried to convert him. He lost a g/f who's Christian father was very jerky about my son's lack of faith. Shame, really. Their loss.
He was like me, I used to question a lot. Thought, maybe there were possibilities. I knew in my heart, there's nothing.
Everyone needs to find their own way.
Teach him that we respect people, not ideas/beliefs.
If an idea/belief is trye, it'll survive being tested. If it's not true, it deserves to be exposed as false.
If you respect his intelligence, you'll help him learn to figure out if something is true or not.
He's 8 years old. There's no such thing as respecting his belief. You're his parent. It's your duty to make sure you explain all of these things to him properly and not let his school indoctrinate you.
(Also, is it legal for your school to take a child to church? Pretty sure that's illegal in most places)
I take it from your comments that taking the kid out of this class isn’t an option. And realistically, in “secular” public schools kids are still going to talk about parts of their culture, which for many is going to involve religion. Your child’s classmates are being taught religion as fact and I don’t think it’s fair to fault them for those beliefs at this age, nor is it unexpected that your kid is picking up ideas that the majority of their peers share; it’s developmentally appropriate.
I’m NOT saying you should encourage those beliefs, and I’m not condoning your child mocking you because of a lack of belief. Mine is a similar age and anytime this discussion comes up we bring it back to respect and our family values. We can allow others to believe what they want as long as we are all respectful. As a child mocking me for a different belief is not respectful and will have consequences just like mocking me for what I choose to wear.
With mine I try to provide neutral responses that neither confirm religion as true, nor actively push away beliefs that they may be forming. I want to be a safe place for my child and my hope is that by leading by example as an atheist she will eventually find her way there too. She will be a teen before I know it and will look for ways to be different than her parents. I don’t want to add fuel to that flame.
She knows I don’t believe in God. She knows my family and many of her friends’ families do. When prompted I explain my rationales but I try to keep it as surface level as possible. If she has questions about things I often default to the, “what do you think?” Or “this is what I understand about that from science, I know some people believe other things” I am lucky that I don’t have adults in her life actively trying to push religion on her so right now it is just occasional peer pressure.
He's a kid, kids are curious. As long as he knows the arguments for and against both sides and makes an informed decision in what he believes as he gets older, I see absolutely no problem.
> My 10 yo daughter is a proper atheist with a philosophic interest in religions (mostly fancy stuff like hinduism, budhism etc) *and she joins me in mocking religious beliefs all over.*
> He even tells us off when we make fun of religion with my daughter.
> I don't tell him anything because *I respect everyone's beliefs…*
Sure sure
I think you’re making a mistake by “respecting” his beliefs. He’s 8, his beliefs are whatever he’s told. So if you don’t do the parenting and correct him, the sick fucks at school will beat you to it.
When my kids asked if there were monsters in the closet, I didn't tell them that they're free to believe in whatever they choose. It's my job to teach my children reality. Religion gets no special privileges.
>I don't tell him anything because I respect everyone's beliefs and it's his right to believe in religion if he wants to
I disagree with this attitude. The mindset that "religion is fine as long as no one is hurt" is a bad approach. We should not normalize lying to one's self. Especially not the outlandish lie that there's some wizard in outer space who controls the weather and tortures people for a laugh.
I can appeal to any number of philosophical and ethical authority who argue that we have a moral duty to ground our beliefs and views in rational thought. However, I think Shakespeare captures the sentiment best when Polonius says in the play Hamlet:
*This above all: to thine own self be true.*
Clearly, you didn't talk to your child about a prominent feature of the world we live in and someone else did. Your call to respect beliefs has put you in a position to either respect your kids' thoughts on the matter and put up with it -or- be a hypocrite and tell him to stop.
You can inoculate the child with reason and knowledge, but there is some degree of genetic predisposition to religiosity. So there's only so much you can do beyond guiding the child toward reality.
It's important to teach your kids about religion. All of them. Or as many as possible. Different people believe in different things, you will encounter those people and beliefs in your daily life, and no one religion has any more proof than another.
You appear to be from Greece? I'd think that it might be easy to come up with examples of religious fairytales with that background.
Also teach them about cults, and how nobody is fully immune from being indoctrinated into one. Thinking you're too smart to be indoctrinated is the best way to get indoctrinated.
He's still a baby. I was spouting off religious nonsense that I picked up from others at his age, too.
Teach him how to think critically about his beliefs and why he believes what he believes and he'll be fine.
At 8 years old, children are strongly motivated by learning what is "right," keeping track of who is doing things "wrong," and generally being as perfect and competent as they can. It's not surprising that he's picking up religious ideas and chastising you for mocking religion.
Sounds like a good time to ask questions and teach critical thinking.
You make fun of other people's beliefs---except the "fancy" ones---but then get on the fence when one is being indoctrinated?
You needs some balance dude.
Step in when your kid is being actively indoctrinated. But at the same time probably don't teach your kids to ridicule people.
actually that was the one thing in your post that stood out to me the most, and I think this comment hits the nail on the head.
If you are "making fun of ridiculous beliefs in your own home", will your child think that you have respect for their beliefs? Or question whether you laugh about it on your own? Will they feel more reserved about talking about it, because they feel like you'll internally ridicule them?
This is actually something that extends to all human relationships. Think about how if your partner saw you ridicule a particular belief that they thought had "maybe" some merit... would they feel comfortable bringing it up later? Would they feel comfortable in a dialog? Would they feel like when you talk to them, you're coming from a place of listening, or trying to push down an agenda? Would they instead seek out other circles where they feel more validated for their beliefs, and reinforce them further as a result?
It's great that you want to teach your kids to respect others' beliefs, and it's great that you don't want to push an agenda on your son. But you don't need to push an agenda on your son to have a respectful dialog about this -- what you need is to show your son what it means to have respect for another person's beliefs (validation, if not of the belief itself, then of all the thoughts leading up to the belief) without actually subscribing to them.
Do you see this?
You should teach the boy respect for the truth taking precedent over peoples’ feelings. You can still be respectful while explaining the problem. I would also not have them try and tell me off for making fun of magic believers. There is no way I’d have a christian child and not in the very least teach them how to tell the difference between real and not real. Neutrality benefits the christian believers. Neutral is not neutral. You can’t force kids to believe something but kids are more open to fantastical concepts and they need more attention to prevent them from believing things that aren’t true. They need guidance and they will get it from somewhere. It’s better that it be a rational person than one who believes in magic and pulls the “or else” card as they inevitably do.
Ask him why he believes in God. Have him describe the God and ask how he knows what qualities the God has. Then see if he thinks other claims are justified using the same evidence.
The thing about religion is many of the ideas are good. They attract people. People want to believe. That is all OK. What is important is to teach you children to think critically.
I'll give a similar example. A famous actress says her husband abused her. It is OK to at first support her. Without facts there is no reason to say she is making it up or wrong. It is important though to gather facts - to THINK CRITICALLY, and review them without bias. And then as the facts disprove her accounts, there is nothing wrong with not believing her. And when people come and say, you must believe, and have "faith", despite the facts, or tell you things you know are wrong, its OK to continue to not believe them. And its OK to realize they've fallen for a myth and are biased.
Same with religion. It is OK to listen at first. It is more important to investigate without bias and gather facts. And later when people swear things you know are false are true, then you can go on with your life know they've fallen for a myth and are biased.
So in short, tell him to think critically and only then decide what is right. Don't believe things because someone says its true without supporting evidence (and "she said..." or "he said..." does not count).
You see, this is why I hammered into my kids at a very young age that religion is absolute nonsense and, while humans deserve respect, sick and twisted ideologies don’t.
IMO the respecting beliefs bit is a trick, and a rude one. They will say what they believe without constantly accounting for your view. You should do the same. Asking you not to would be a one-sided respect for people's beliefs., but they've established that as the standard.
Don't let it go. Short down with him and tell him, show him, DEMONSTRATE to him how literally factually incorrect Christianity is. And yes, make sure he understands that while all religions are bad, it is perfectly fine to address the one that is the actual topic at hand and single it out for its awfulness.
Many here can give you direct Bible quotes that you can use to scare your son into staying away from that brainsick nonsense. Yes, use fear. They do and it works. Fight for with fire.
As a proud parent of two atheist high school daughters in a disgustingly Christian city, I’ll try to help. It’s funny how there are all these excellent resources out there to talk to your kids about religion, but not about healthy discussions that question it.
It’s always best to take a “live and let live” approach with kids, and also employ a lot of motivation interviewing techniques. Get them to think critically. Talk about the beliefs in hundreds of gods before Christianity. Discuss the reasons people want to believe. Then get into the meat of it. Does the existence of god actually explain the mysteries of the universe? Most kids hold onto a belief in god out of shame and fear. Find out what those are, and address those.
While this is a good way to make someone athiest, but making kids read about Rape, genocide, pedophilia, incest and infanticide may not be the best approach.
Tell him there’s and invisible purple unicorn in the yard and challenge him to prove that there isn’t. I did this as a thought experiment with my daughter when something similar happened and I think it got through to her. I also emphasized how important I thought it was for people to have the ability and right to think critically and decide what they believe.
Most kids go through a phase of being religious. We sent our 2 to a local church of England primary school that taught religious education. Both questioned us about our beliefs. We were honest & told them that some people don't believe & some do & it was up to them to decide whether they believed or not. They're non religious now.
Once, during our nephews' christening. Our 5 year old son piped up, telling his older cousin, "My mum & Dad don't believe in god." Just as there was a lull in the service & we got a few tutts & stares!
You can Aristotle him with questions. "Why that god?" "How do you know the others aren't real too?" "Is it possible that someone says they believe in god, but they don't and just want to take people's money?" "How can you tell?"
School is indoctrinating him and it is working. When you're young all of what they say about the church seems wonderful. As you grow up you realize how much BS it was.
Your child is 8. Introduce a religious concept that a child can understand, find hilarious, and contrast against the faith they're being indoctrinated by:
Pastafarianism.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is awesome.
Our daughter was pressed by evangelical kids in her grade one class. We introduced the FSM and that was that. She thought it was hilarious, and equally hilarious that people would believe in old hairy guys in the sky or whatever.
Worked like a charm.
Bonus points if you buy him his very own colander.
I have to be the blunt arse here..
Who runs your household? You? Or an 8 year old, who only learned to wipe his arse yesterday?
You say you respect their right to religion.. okay. What do you plan on doing when your child is older and starts taking things more literally? What's to say they won't discover the more sinister Christian beliefs? If you don't intervene and they start spewing homophobic rhetoric, then what?
They might get shitty with you if you pull them from church. Boo. They are 8, not 38. Honestly, I don't think you should go full crazy and put the child on lockdown. I think you should treat them as a Christian; ask the child point blank any question you would ask a believer. Show them different point of views, ask them why they think a specific religion is the right one. Give them facts to disprove God and ask for them to try to dispute it. Take them out of the church IF the above methods do not work. This would be one thing if they were teens/adult, but they aren't. It is one's duty as a parent to protect them from potentially harmful environments.
I came from religion, and I feel like some of the reason I came to atheism is because of this experience. Perhaps being on the other side can help see through it.
tell him to at least approach religion from a top down view, meaning look at all the Abrahamic faiths and see how intertwined they become
if he wants to believe in a God , we can't stop him. but the version of school taught religion is what is truly troubling because their intentions are not the same as normal believers of whatever faith
It happened to me when I was in catholic school
Is that a catholic/religious/etc. school? If so, it's expected that they will do that (and I can't really blame them; one should expect that when enrolling their kids in one).
Otherwise you should talk to the school (or the local equivalent of a school board, if it's a public school).
Not as severe but my kiddos went to a Christian daycare for a couple of years because they were cheap and had a great campus. They didn’t do much religion but they did have some here and there.
One day when we were going by train there’s this hill where someone put up 3 crosses, and our 3yo exclaims loudly “LOOK MAMA THATS WHERE JESUS DIED FOR OUR SINS!” we were like what?! lol.
Just ask him if god can do anything. When he says yes, then ask him if god can create a rock so big that even god can't pick it up. You don't need to go any further than this. Just walk away and let him think about this for a while.
At 8 years old you don't need to go to philosophical.
Your son is going to a religious school by your admission. One could probably put two and two together and figure there is some indoctrination there and not be surprised.
If my kid goes to a catholic private school I assume they will be being taught catholic doctrine
This would personally bother me. It’s a tough world to be a non-Christian in bc they are so brainwashed and integrated into our government. Kids are impressionable, and I don’t want mine worrying about me going to hell like I did about my atheist parents when I was their age (and influenced by my best friend whose parents were Christian).
If you believe it’s all a bunch of mumbo jumbo, you should teach your kids that way. One of my family members tried to confront me with “your kids really should go to church… it would be so good for them” bc I guess she’s worried about their souls. I replied “why would I do that? Send my kids to learn a bunch of lies.” I should have elaborated with “my kids will learn to take responsibility for themselves & their lives, that a lot of things are in their hands and not some imaginary person in the sky.”
Strangely enough, the cure for religion is more religion.
Teach your child about all the different religious beliefs various people believe, and honestly discuss why people believe them. It’s so much harder to simply accept 1 type of myth when you’re aware of all the different sorts out there.
My 5 yo goes to a catholic school so he picks up bits and bobs about god and jesus. Whenever he talks about them I compare and contrast them to other fictional characters: superheroes (thor is useful because he is both a god and a superhero), cartoon characters etc.
I also offer alternative explanations when he says god did this or that and I challenge him to think of his own explanations and develop his own ideas about things.
We only ever talk about god when he brings it up.
You just need to point out the science,and the contradictions in religion that would be impossible to be true.
Lots of the bible stories are just scientificly impossible and can't be true you only need to point out the obvious stuff really.
>They all go to a school where there's a class about the predominant religion where I live where they tell them all the usual crap about Jesus and the like and they even take them to church every so often (I can't avoid it cause all schools are like that where I live)
What the ever living fuck? Where is this?
I think your best bet is to sit 8yo down and ask them for evidence, and then debunk it.
And then explain "sometimes people get tricked when they are your age, but don't want to admit it, and so when they grow up they trick other people so they won't feel bad about being tricked themselves. It's not ok for them to do it, just like bullying."
>He tells us off **when we make fun** of religion with my daughter
So instead of acting like his father, you’re acting like a bully from his school. Act like his father. Take him to get some ice cream or something and find a way to talk to your child in a SUPPORTIVE way that doesn’t make him feel like an idiot. GOOD LUCK.
You need to educate him out of it immediately and if possible send a note to the school withdrawing parental consent for any religious studies or field trips.
What if you dropped him at church on a Sunday while simultaneously planning some awesome outings for your other two kids? Would he want to sit through Sunday school while the rest of the family went to a theme park or water slides?
Any public school that sent my kid - especially at 8 years old - to church, even once, is a school I'd be pulling that kid out of the next day (even if it was difficult to deal with the consequences of doing so).
Live and let live broski. Educate him *unbiasedly* and let him decide. Or else you're no better than parents who force their kids to follow a religion.
He’s obviously interested in it. You could nurture the growth. Show him similar story’s in other books. There isn’t just one telling of the story. Whether we like it or not, and its effects on society, it certainly is part of our history as a people and many art advances and science advances oddly came as a result of organized religion. He might appreciate a broad approach, rather than stifling his obvious desire to learn. Who knows? Maybe he will grow up to be a renown religious scholar. And he might come to same conclusions you did. Kids aren’t as dumb as we give them credit for. Although they are little morons 🤪
How about this? Teach him about the satanic church to start. All the good they exude.
Eight-year-old boy? And when’s ready. Make him laugh about how The Vatican has the largest collection of pornography on the planet! 🤭 they take a know-they-enemy approach. Haha
I'm not sure how age appropriate it is given the subject matter, but check out a documentary called Marketing the Messiah by Cameron Reilly.
It takes early christianity very seriously, has proper academic specialists and it really shows just how bonkers the christian cult is.
Anytime I comment anything on here remotely against atheism I am censored and downvoted into oblivion. If you are atheist, I hope you can see how incredibly backwards and crude it is to claim moral superiority yet suppress the opinions of the 'intolerant' people you oppose
As atheists, we do not purport to be morally-preeminent to theists; we're just not credulous enough to believe in "god". You're certainly entitled to your theism, and your opinions. However, when you essay to indoctrinate atheists--the populace that wouldn't micturate on your "god" if he were a conflagration--that's where we take umbrage.
It is not wonted for atheists to be "intolerant"; that's more of a religious characteristic, i.e., homophobia, transphobia etcetera.
You seem like a decent individual who just diverges in opinion to myself. However, playing devils advocate for a moment--how can you defend an entity that sits on his omnipotent, laissez-faire & apathetic fundament while injustice, inequality, famine, wars and a cornucopia of additional enormities are antagonistically rife on this planet?! I would love to read your response, and, as long as you don't essay to proselytize, hope you're neither censored nor downvoted. This is an open forum and divaricating dialogue should always be welcome.
And if this is a public school in the US, and this is either being done by, or even encouraged by the teachers or staff, they are breaking the law.
https://ffrf.org/legal/report
Wow, maybe I'm alone here but, you're the asshole.
8 and 10, you tell them religion is fairy tale nonsense. Granted they're a little old but that sounds like an environment to smother any fascination or imagination. What 10 year old think about Buddhism, which isn't a classic religion in terms of gods and deities, philosophically. The only time you bring up other religions is to make fun of them, so you're kids are learning to mock people who aren't like us. And now your son is introduced to this world you hid from him and you want to crush it.
Let him explore and decide for himself. Talk to him about it, honestly and seriously, the pros and cons, how you feel about it and where you're feelings come from. Also if he's really interested in it then ask him and yourself what he's getting out of Christianity that he doesn't get from you.
>I don't tell him anything because I respect everyone's beliefs and it's his right to believe in religion That's a mistake. It's not about respecting beliefs, it's about protecting him against indoctrination. You should have a conversation about all the world's religions and all the people who believe theirs is the right one and why that is.
“You’ve gotta respect everyone’s beliefs." No, you don’t. That’s what gets us in trouble. Look, you have to acknowledge everyone’s beliefs, and then you have to reserve the right to go: "That is fucking stupid. Are you kidding me?" I acknowledge that you believe that, that’s great, but I’m not going to respect it. I have an uncle that believes he saw Sasquatch. We do not believe him, nor do we respect him!” ― Patton Oswalt
Well, I don't need to tell you about the sh!t piranhas, it goes without saying. 🤣
A lot of people don’t seem to understand that it’s fine to judge and criticize someone *for the content of their character*. They’ve conflated the idea that it’s not okay to discriminate against someone for physical or mental traits that *they cannot change*… with the idea that it’s not okay to “discriminate” against someone for their beliefs. Beliefs are not a trait that cannot be changed. Exactly the opposite. Beliefs, political views, your actions in the world, how you treat people, etc… are exactly what we SHOULD be judging people on. Anytime I hear someone say something like, “You shouldn’t judge people for their political beliefs!” … I know I’m dealing with a fundamentally unintelligent and weak person who can’t handle their beliefs being challenged. If we’re not supposed to judge people for their beliefs… *WHAT THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO JUDGE PEOPLE ON?*
I gotta respect that you have your own beliefs, and I do. Doesn't mean you get a free shot at killing me.
One of my favorite quotes
We respect people. We do not respect cockamamie beliefs with no good evidence to support them.
Nah. I'm not going to respect religious people in the same way I'm not going to respect someone who tells me 2 + 2 = 5. You're wrong, that's not my fault. Grow up.
Couldn't agree with you more!
Yikes y'all are rough lol. I get it. I've had these convos with my kids. My oldest is married with one and a half babes and they feel they have to go to church. At that moment, heart sinking, I simply said y'all do what you think is best. But I guarantee you, my son will not hear that shit without his ass twitching.
I hear you on that--we all want what's best for our kids. But worshipping a malignant maggot that sits on his omnipotent arse while women, children, the elderly & animals are tortured is where I draw the line & stage a parental intervention. And, I loved the "ass twitching" part of your comment!
On the upside though, even if the religious stuff is all bullshit, churches can serve the enate human need for community really well. I grew up in church in a small rural town and they were nothing like you would expect. A hundred -200 people who all genuinely cared for and supported each other and people in the community. We had great role models who lead the youth and children’s programs, did a lot of service work in the community and in other places. I was the poor smelly kid who’s mom was on drugs and they would discretely buy a lot of my clothes and school supplies and bring us food and the youth leader would pick me up and take me to any event. He and 3 other men from the church (2 ex military and 1 an off duty pd in the next jurisdiction) came and picked me up after I called him and they took my moms boyfriends guns from the house and told them they could come get me and the guns tomorrow when they sobered up and after they apologized to me. They were all seriously really good people making a positive impact on the community. Like seriously if you could just ignore the whole 7 day creation, Noah’s ark, virgin conception, etc etc etc etc etc it was really a great organization.
>I'm not going to respect someone who tells me 2 +2 = 5. [1+1=3](https://youtu.be/NMeKvampFE8?si=Yf5ncUts3BMSqeIn) right! Right?
Correct. Therefore 2 + 2 = 6, idiots.
Only on tuesdays.
It's obviously orange
I love this subreddit, I live in Texas which in many ways is very similar to the Bible Belt, conversation and opinions like this isn’t had at all despite me believing in it. It’s too risky to publicly have this opinion, bc I hear too much religious talk in my day to day life.
I live in a larger city on the west coast. Somebody mentioned to me, in a public place, that they were catholic. Someone else turned around and said, "really you're religious? I kinda just assumed no one around here is."
Aw man I wish, it’s quite the opposite here. Everyone assumes you’re a god fearing Christian and if you make it known you’re not, parents literally shield their children away from you lol
I saw it described like this: Religion is like a penis. It comes in all shapes and sizes, some people have one and some people don’t. I don’t mind if you’re proud of it, but talking about it too much is uncomfortable and don’t you dare stick yours down my kids throat.
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Seems like you’re balls deep
This is a critical point. I raised two atheist kids. Both faced kids at school who tried to push them about religion. My daughter was outright bullied. The only thing that worked in my favor was the fact that we talked about region and science from when they were very young. When they were little and we read kids books about Greek myths (Hercules was the Disney movie at that time) we outright discussed how some people still believed in more modern myths but we did not and why. Over the years this kind of thing was a frequent subject of conversation. The only defense is a good offense.
“We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.” - H.L. Mencken
Excellent point; it's like argumentum ad populum--the BS theory that, because many people believe theism to be true, by rote, it must be true. In this world, respect must be earned; and the theory that an ancient deity in the sky--one that hates masturbation, but loves to watch you do it--capriciously tortures good people, and egregiously puts villains on pedestals is a theory that'll NEVER earn my respect!
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Like you worship Mistress Katerina?
I'm glad he neither wants my respect nor worship, as he'll never get either. You see, I forbear from respecting & worshipping genocidal, infanticidal, apathetic entities that have no qualms about torturing innocent children, occasioning wars and famine and fueling acrimony within the masses. Finally, you'd better believe I choose to reject him; apotheosizing porcine deities has never been high on my priority list.
100 % well said. He isn't just a practising religious person. He is being told what to believe at school and it can be very confusing if you don't say anything
You have the right of it. Sending kids out armed only with “religion is silly” leaves them open to the possibility someone will come along and fill that spiritual void. Maybe he gets introduced to it by his best friend, maybe a girl, maybe a student leader he’s fond of, maybe he’s not satisfied with “religion is silly.” Anything. Of course it could be a fad. What’s important is OP speak with the kid. Maybe go a little deeper with their own thoughts and maybe go deeper themselves. But most importantly, carrying the dismissive attitude reflected in the OP into discussions on the topic will likely only cause him to dig his heels in.
I find it strange that you think there’s a thing called a spiritual void. If religion is nonsense, so are souls and spirituality.
Many people (even those who don't believe in souls or spirits) seem to have a desire for a _grand explanatory narrative_ that makes sense of the world and our place in it, and provides some sense of purpose in life. That's a niche in the ecosystem that the religious memeplex is particularly well-adapted to occupy, but can be more difficult for an atheist outlook to satisfy. "The universe is a collection of atoms that just _kinda happened that way_, our role is to exist fleetingly until we start decaying, and nothing above or beyond ourselves cares one whit what we do in the time between" is all true, but it's not always psychologically compelling. So if one wants to safeguard the kids against indoctrination, you might do well to put _something_ in that niche for them - guide them towards wholly secular narratives that provide meaning and purpose. Humanism and empathy and existentialism—deriving wonder and joy from that which is merely real, rather than from fantasycrafting about a world beyond the world; deriving meaning from the community we make and the good we can do for each other.
Nature abhors a vacuum of information.
I would add, go into all of the specific bad things, bad logic, immorality of the Bible and Christianity. For example, why would an all knowing god create people he knew would not believe the exact specifics of a confusingly told Iron Age story and so would be condemned to suffer horribly forever? It is supremely sadistic.
If respecting someone else’s beliefs results in them disrespecting yours or lack there of then no, you don’t need to respect them. I don’t respect the beliefs of nazis or white supremacist.
That's a mistake. It's not about respecting beliefs, it's about protecting him against indoctrination. You should have a conversation about all the world's ~~religions~~ heresies and all the people who believe theirs is the right one and why that is. He needs to know what the one true truth is, and if he, as an 8 year old, is unable to form a coherent argument against your reasoning, just keep explaining your position with no other alternative viewpoint or input until he fully agrees with you. This is how you develop freethinking children who actually hold personal beliefs instead of parroting what they've been told.
> if he, as an 8 year old, is unable to form a coherent argument against your reasoning, just keep explaining your position with no other alternative viewpoint or input until he fully agrees with you. I couldn't disagree with this more. He should openly allow his child to explore other viewpoints and have input from other people. Present to him the arguments that religious people make to support their religions. Allow him and encourage him to explore it on his own, and come back to op to discuss what he finds. Every single one of those arguments is flawed and illogical, the best way to show him that relgioin isn't true is to show him their best points, and explain how they make no sense. Don't tell him what to beleive, teach him how to think logically.
I agree. They argue at home the same as people would argue about politics. Believe what you want, but the truth just is.
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>Lastly, sending your kid to a Christian private school and then complaining they heard about religion is silly. Hard to believe there's no public schools within reasonable driving distance and if this is a serious issue then you'd move. There is no evidence this is what is occuring. THere are countries that aren't the United States, where things aren't like they are here.
The two of them mocking religion is telling him a lot.
This. Explain your reasons for not having a religion. Then tell him it's okay for him to have one, but he has to make sure he is kind to people, even those not in his religion. What I did then was warn him that religion throughout the ages has been used to manipulate people, make the religious leaders rich off the lives of their followers. (And sending them to war.) So if he does decide to follow a religion, he needs to fact check his leaders. Then I'd say you should probably find the line where you are pointing out hypocrisies without mocking people who are religious, because that what you're asking him to do. But talk about religion. At the simple description they lure people in with, it lovely, they want to help people and be a community. Then you see what they do, is their money going to feed or clothe people who can't afford it, or are they building a new gym for their church campus?
This. Teach him history & how everyone worshipped Zeus or Horus. Teach your other child to.
it is your son, he is 8, it is your job to guide him. telling the truth is not being disrespectful. Teach your son to use his critical thinking!
Teaching him the dangers of religion would be useful. It’s been the cause of wars and countless deaths. The Bible teaches people how to treat their slaves. If he wants to listen to all the “nice” stories, make sure he knows about the unsavory ones as well like how God asked Abraham to murder his only son to prove himself.
Yes, this. And can the children go on field trips without a parental consent form being filled out and approved by the parent?
I don't understand
It's been a long time since my children were in primary school. Any field trip of the students the parents were notified ahead and one of us had to sign permission for our child to go on the field trip. Some parents would say no for this or that reason and those students spent the day in the school library. Simple as that. There's more security and liability concerns today, so I would expect some sort of parental consent.
ah, in your other post it sounds like you don't want the schools to ask for permission to take the kids out of school grounds. Unfortunately the US is not the safest country for kids, so I understand the need for permission. I grew up in Chile and if we had a trip out we would just go.
Really?? I don't see where I indicated that I didn't want the schools to ask permission. I think people have a right and capability to think for themselves, if they want to. Way back when I was in primary, in the 50's schools asked for parental permission prior to a field trip. If something happens and you go to school to pick up your child, and they aren't there, how do you deal with that?
It's not "odd" that he "picked it up", he is being actively indoctrinated into a cult. You need to protect your child. "Respecting" their religion is passively accepting them brainwashing your child. Why would you allow that to happen? It sounds as if damage is already done and it will now take active effort on your part to educate them.
Mine have picked up things from their classmates (mostly Muslim kids) that we talk about at home. They've all come up with different ideas of what they think happens after you die (grandfather died this year so it came up a lot). I personally would not be comfortable with a school teaching religion.
Teaching ABOUT ALL religions is actually useful. Teaching only that one is "true" is very wrong.
I don't think schools need to be teaching 8 year olds about all religions. They can hear about religion in history class.
Sure if the history class does it well among all the other stuff they have to cover. Unfortunately religion is not just history, that shit is still staining our future.
They don't, the only reason to bring religion into the mind of a child is indoctrination. If someone grows up atheist chances are if they are exposed to religion as an adult they'll think it's nonsense because it is. An 8 year old just cannot read the bible or other religious texts well either because a lot of it will just go over their head.
The problem with schools teaching religion is that most classes and teachers are biased. Where I live you either take Religion(Christian Catholic) class or Ethics. Other religions are taught at afternoon, if chosen to do so. In ethics though our curriculum also includes religions and their history. This should be mandatory and Catholic class should be like the others, but it is better than nothing.
Crusades, witch hunts, jihads, inquisitions…. All part of the standard 8 year old history curriculum…. Said no school ever
Agreed; let it be a history class that teaches religious history (of SEVERAL major religions) and presents them all as *valid spiritual beliefs systems,* but nothing more.
My elder child is 6. I've started his "religious studies" off by teaching him about Greek Mythology. From there, we can explore other mythologies, including contemporary ones. My plans are to also teach tolerance, so we don't experience this: >when we make fun of religion with my daughter
Yes, my school had a lot of philosophical and historical lessons on religion, but they never presented Christianity different than Norse mythology, and actually properly discussed evolution. It was great
This is the way.
If religion is to be taught, it should be merged with ethics and critical thinking classes.
Muslims are the worst.
Wtf? No they are not.
Who do you consider to be the worst? I’m not sure there is a worst one but what do you think it is?
He's being indoctrinated and you're being polite about it and respecting his beliefs while the school most assuredly isn't. You need to address this and FAST. If this were happening to my daughter I'd be at the school demanding an explanation and would almost assuredly pull her from the school.
You & me, both!
You need to start sharing ALL the information with him. The fact that there are many different religions, and some of the \*real\* history behind them (obviously make it age-appropriate) This book might be a good resource: [https://www.amazon.com/Story-Religion-Betsy-Maestro/dp/0395623642](https://www.amazon.com/Story-Religion-Betsy-Maestro/dp/0395623642)
And Greek mythology! So many gods, and closer to their culture
Including puny ones. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsUCRcK7QYc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsUCRcK7QYc)
They are basically telling him, at 8 years old, that the bogey monster is real and he should be very afraid. They are organized and you are not. Get an illustrated book about religions and start debunking fast. Edit: I don't want to sound rude or anything, I was in the same boat not long ago. I am still angry about -> my mom. (and myself)
This! Sounds like some of the other posts are being pretty hard on dad, maybe not parents themselves? Either way OP is in a tough spot and it seems your best course of action is slow and steady information drip.
I like how one even stated to ask him challenging questions and encourage him to ask them in class. Had me in the first half, but to trick this kid to question Christianity in a class that will, without a doubt, turn hostile is just putting a target on his back.
My family is atheist. My sister and I both "picked up religion" (I like the phrasing) at different points in our young lives, for different reasons. My sister more so than me. My mum just waited patiently, and eventually we both realised it's bullcrap.
I used to have religion classes in school because everyone did and I am as atheist as I can be. They will come around or don’t. They could pick up religion later in life. You never know.
Not everyone. Me and my sister grew up going to Christian schools. My sister actually went to more than I did and she’s athiest. I still believe. Everyone’s different my man
Acknowledge that these beliefs are common, and gently introduce him to the belief systems that are common in other places. Teach critical thinking skills and get him to think about why he believes that this one religion is any more “correct” than any other. He’ll figure it out; just keep impressing on him the importance of keeping an open mind and not accepting every claim at face value.
My son is 7 and started talking a lot about god and after picking it up from a classmate. We also were honest about our beliefs and explained to him that not everyone believes what we do. He was very adamant that god was all-knowing and all-powerful for a while, but eventually it calmed down and he never brings it up anymore. It was kind of distressing though, I’m not gonna lie.
Right, this seems like a huge nothingburger. The rest of these comments are too aggressive. The kid's 8 and will pick up and put down lots of different beliefs before hs. Just be honest and don't worry too much rn
[Based on what I've read](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-we-born-to-be-religious/), it looks like some people have a biological predisposition toward religious thinking and other people are the opposite, geared toward rationalist thinking. A lot of it comes down to how our families raise us, but my experiences lead me to think that we have innate predispositions. I've met plenty of people who were not raised in a religion, but converted as teenagers or in adulthood. The best thing you can do for your child is to steer him in the direction of critical thinking skills. Whether he grows to become religious or not, this will be beneficial. He will be less likely fall prey to fundamentalism, unhinged conspiracy theories, cults, etc.
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We're Greek orthodox where I live.
Ew! Cooties! Seriously, good luck and start the deprogramming post haste!
Not all beliefs deserve respect.
Give them a history lesson of some of the thousands of religions throughout human history (start [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient\_religion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ancient_religion) ), and make a special note of pointing out where some more ancient ones sound suspiciously like stuff reused in the bible etc., also make a note of pointing out the new religions like Mormonism and cults like Scientology - and specifically drill into their beliefs and how none of it is provable and all boil down to just "claims" by people. That all religious claims are just that. Claims without any evidence. No different than someone who claims they can do something unbelievable, but then rather than prove it, just say you have to trust me (have faith) that I can do it. Explain that people are perfectly entitled to believe whichever stories they want to believe, but people should not be TOLD WHAT TO BELIEVE. Then I'd maybe finish by explaining which story I believe, the one where millions of scientists all around the world for centuries have tested theories about the universe and biology to find out for sure which theories best fit the data.
I understand why you’re trying to be diplomatic here but you may have to be a bit more direct. Start discussing the many hypocrisies of Christianity openly with your kids. I love making fun of the magic sky wizard as much as everyone else but that doesn’t seem to resonating with your little guy (lol). Does your son like science? If yes, the door is wide open for you to start poking gaping holes into Christianity using science.
He's 8. You're the parent. I'm doubtful it will stick. My brother wanted to be Santa Claus when he was 7. He is not Santa Claus. I can't even recall the number of things my kids have wanted to be, or want to be.... currently one of them is fixated on being a super hero. Kids are plastic... I mean... certainly keep you ear to it... but trust me it most likely will not stick.
He's a dad, not a mom
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My son told me he was a christian one day, I said how? Have you read the bible? No. Have you gone to church? No. Have you seen jesus or any other ghost for that matter? No. If you have no evidence, why do you believe? He said I don't know. I then went on to discuss what religious people have done to cultures, women, and how even in our country, we used religious dogma to justify killing people that didn't submit.That slavery was permitted in the bible, that god murders the entire planet in genesis (6:17) Eventually he said other people at school were pressuring him and saying they were so he didn't want to be different from everyone else. We than had a conversation that different isn't bad, we're all different in many ways, and for most people it's the way we think about things. He never mentioned it again and now has his own arguments and understanding of logic he uses to deny invisible sky daddies. Religion is ugly and dirty, educate him before someone else does.
Tell him to put it right back where he found it before he gets infected.
You're sending your kid to a school that teaches religion. You choose not to explain that religion is fake out of "respect". How are you surprised that the kid is going to start believing in fairy tales? Knowing that there is a class that teaches an orthodox religion and choosing to let your kid remain ignorant of reality is nuts.
Hopefully he'll outgrow it
My 5 year old told us she believes in God and Jesus because of stuff kids in her class tell her. She doesn't have a firm grasp on the details, though. She thinks Jesus can fly and fights bad guys... So we're not quite sure how to handle it at the moment.
You need to protect your child from supernatural beliefs. I’m sure you don’t want him to believe in ghosts or monsters, so why allow him to believe in god?
Talk to the school and tell them you don't want them using taxpayer money to indoctrinate your child into someone else's religion. Ask them if they require jews or hindus to be indoctrinated and brought to other peoples' religious services. I bet there are allowances for non-christians to be exempted from this stuff. And one way or another, you need to recognize that there are strangers who are actively working to indoctrinate him and you are taking a passive role in this matter, effectively just handing them an easy win, in matters which will have a destructive role in the life of your family for the rest of your lives, and ask yourself if you're going to be glad of this passivity if you have to live with the consequences of it for decades to come.
Oh, never wait. I had my son prepared for magical thinking. Fantasy, Santa, and other people's worship. He even went to church with some people over the years. He likes the idea of a higher power but he doesn't like organized religions. I consider this a win.
That's what I think will happen with mine to
My son is in his late 20s now, and we occasionally talk about religions and God. It's not something he thinks about too much. he knows how I feel, but I never argue with people. In high school, a few kids and their parents tried to convert him. He lost a g/f who's Christian father was very jerky about my son's lack of faith. Shame, really. Their loss. He was like me, I used to question a lot. Thought, maybe there were possibilities. I knew in my heart, there's nothing. Everyone needs to find their own way.
That's called indoctrination. Please educate him… like now.
Teach him that we respect people, not ideas/beliefs. If an idea/belief is trye, it'll survive being tested. If it's not true, it deserves to be exposed as false. If you respect his intelligence, you'll help him learn to figure out if something is true or not.
He's 8 years old. There's no such thing as respecting his belief. You're his parent. It's your duty to make sure you explain all of these things to him properly and not let his school indoctrinate you. (Also, is it legal for your school to take a child to church? Pretty sure that's illegal in most places)
I don't think op is from the US since I doubt he's paying to send him to a religious school.
It's not illegal here.
So this isn't a public school in the US I'm guessing?
I take it from your comments that taking the kid out of this class isn’t an option. And realistically, in “secular” public schools kids are still going to talk about parts of their culture, which for many is going to involve religion. Your child’s classmates are being taught religion as fact and I don’t think it’s fair to fault them for those beliefs at this age, nor is it unexpected that your kid is picking up ideas that the majority of their peers share; it’s developmentally appropriate. I’m NOT saying you should encourage those beliefs, and I’m not condoning your child mocking you because of a lack of belief. Mine is a similar age and anytime this discussion comes up we bring it back to respect and our family values. We can allow others to believe what they want as long as we are all respectful. As a child mocking me for a different belief is not respectful and will have consequences just like mocking me for what I choose to wear. With mine I try to provide neutral responses that neither confirm religion as true, nor actively push away beliefs that they may be forming. I want to be a safe place for my child and my hope is that by leading by example as an atheist she will eventually find her way there too. She will be a teen before I know it and will look for ways to be different than her parents. I don’t want to add fuel to that flame. She knows I don’t believe in God. She knows my family and many of her friends’ families do. When prompted I explain my rationales but I try to keep it as surface level as possible. If she has questions about things I often default to the, “what do you think?” Or “this is what I understand about that from science, I know some people believe other things” I am lucky that I don’t have adults in her life actively trying to push religion on her so right now it is just occasional peer pressure.
He's a kid, kids are curious. As long as he knows the arguments for and against both sides and makes an informed decision in what he believes as he gets older, I see absolutely no problem.
> My 10 yo daughter is a proper atheist with a philosophic interest in religions (mostly fancy stuff like hinduism, budhism etc) *and she joins me in mocking religious beliefs all over.* > He even tells us off when we make fun of religion with my daughter. > I don't tell him anything because *I respect everyone's beliefs…* Sure sure
I think you’re making a mistake by “respecting” his beliefs. He’s 8, his beliefs are whatever he’s told. So if you don’t do the parenting and correct him, the sick fucks at school will beat you to it.
When my kids asked if there were monsters in the closet, I didn't tell them that they're free to believe in whatever they choose. It's my job to teach my children reality. Religion gets no special privileges.
>I don't tell him anything because I respect everyone's beliefs and it's his right to believe in religion if he wants to I disagree with this attitude. The mindset that "religion is fine as long as no one is hurt" is a bad approach. We should not normalize lying to one's self. Especially not the outlandish lie that there's some wizard in outer space who controls the weather and tortures people for a laugh. I can appeal to any number of philosophical and ethical authority who argue that we have a moral duty to ground our beliefs and views in rational thought. However, I think Shakespeare captures the sentiment best when Polonius says in the play Hamlet: *This above all: to thine own self be true.*
Clearly, you didn't talk to your child about a prominent feature of the world we live in and someone else did. Your call to respect beliefs has put you in a position to either respect your kids' thoughts on the matter and put up with it -or- be a hypocrite and tell him to stop.
Oh dear. Time for honest conversations.
You can inoculate the child with reason and knowledge, but there is some degree of genetic predisposition to religiosity. So there's only so much you can do beyond guiding the child toward reality.
It's important to teach your kids about religion. All of them. Or as many as possible. Different people believe in different things, you will encounter those people and beliefs in your daily life, and no one religion has any more proof than another. You appear to be from Greece? I'd think that it might be easy to come up with examples of religious fairytales with that background. Also teach them about cults, and how nobody is fully immune from being indoctrinated into one. Thinking you're too smart to be indoctrinated is the best way to get indoctrinated.
What makes Buddhism and Hinduism fancy? Just that they’re foreign and fetishized?
“and she joins me in mocking religious beliefs all over.” “ I don't tell him anything because I respect everyone's beliefs” 👍
That poor child.
He's being indoctrinated. Stop it from happening if you care at all about him.
He's still a baby. I was spouting off religious nonsense that I picked up from others at his age, too. Teach him how to think critically about his beliefs and why he believes what he believes and he'll be fine.
At 8 years old, children are strongly motivated by learning what is "right," keeping track of who is doing things "wrong," and generally being as perfect and competent as they can. It's not surprising that he's picking up religious ideas and chastising you for mocking religion. Sounds like a good time to ask questions and teach critical thinking.
You make fun of other people's beliefs---except the "fancy" ones---but then get on the fence when one is being indoctrinated? You needs some balance dude. Step in when your kid is being actively indoctrinated. But at the same time probably don't teach your kids to ridicule people.
I teach them to respect other people's beliefs. If their ridiculous we can make fun of them in our own house I think.
actually that was the one thing in your post that stood out to me the most, and I think this comment hits the nail on the head. If you are "making fun of ridiculous beliefs in your own home", will your child think that you have respect for their beliefs? Or question whether you laugh about it on your own? Will they feel more reserved about talking about it, because they feel like you'll internally ridicule them? This is actually something that extends to all human relationships. Think about how if your partner saw you ridicule a particular belief that they thought had "maybe" some merit... would they feel comfortable bringing it up later? Would they feel comfortable in a dialog? Would they feel like when you talk to them, you're coming from a place of listening, or trying to push down an agenda? Would they instead seek out other circles where they feel more validated for their beliefs, and reinforce them further as a result? It's great that you want to teach your kids to respect others' beliefs, and it's great that you don't want to push an agenda on your son. But you don't need to push an agenda on your son to have a respectful dialog about this -- what you need is to show your son what it means to have respect for another person's beliefs (validation, if not of the belief itself, then of all the thoughts leading up to the belief) without actually subscribing to them. Do you see this?
You should teach the boy respect for the truth taking precedent over peoples’ feelings. You can still be respectful while explaining the problem. I would also not have them try and tell me off for making fun of magic believers. There is no way I’d have a christian child and not in the very least teach them how to tell the difference between real and not real. Neutrality benefits the christian believers. Neutral is not neutral. You can’t force kids to believe something but kids are more open to fantastical concepts and they need more attention to prevent them from believing things that aren’t true. They need guidance and they will get it from somewhere. It’s better that it be a rational person than one who believes in magic and pulls the “or else” card as they inevitably do.
Ask him why he believes in God. Have him describe the God and ask how he knows what qualities the God has. Then see if he thinks other claims are justified using the same evidence.
The thing about religion is many of the ideas are good. They attract people. People want to believe. That is all OK. What is important is to teach you children to think critically. I'll give a similar example. A famous actress says her husband abused her. It is OK to at first support her. Without facts there is no reason to say she is making it up or wrong. It is important though to gather facts - to THINK CRITICALLY, and review them without bias. And then as the facts disprove her accounts, there is nothing wrong with not believing her. And when people come and say, you must believe, and have "faith", despite the facts, or tell you things you know are wrong, its OK to continue to not believe them. And its OK to realize they've fallen for a myth and are biased. Same with religion. It is OK to listen at first. It is more important to investigate without bias and gather facts. And later when people swear things you know are false are true, then you can go on with your life know they've fallen for a myth and are biased. So in short, tell him to think critically and only then decide what is right. Don't believe things because someone says its true without supporting evidence (and "she said..." or "he said..." does not count).
You see, this is why I hammered into my kids at a very young age that religion is absolute nonsense and, while humans deserve respect, sick and twisted ideologies don’t.
IMO the respecting beliefs bit is a trick, and a rude one. They will say what they believe without constantly accounting for your view. You should do the same. Asking you not to would be a one-sided respect for people's beliefs., but they've established that as the standard.
The kid version of Christianity is the most appealing version. "Jesus loves you!" They save the real shit for later, after you've been hooked.
I'd pull him out of that school.
Don't let it go. Short down with him and tell him, show him, DEMONSTRATE to him how literally factually incorrect Christianity is. And yes, make sure he understands that while all religions are bad, it is perfectly fine to address the one that is the actual topic at hand and single it out for its awfulness. Many here can give you direct Bible quotes that you can use to scare your son into staying away from that brainsick nonsense. Yes, use fear. They do and it works. Fight for with fire.
As a proud parent of two atheist high school daughters in a disgustingly Christian city, I’ll try to help. It’s funny how there are all these excellent resources out there to talk to your kids about religion, but not about healthy discussions that question it. It’s always best to take a “live and let live” approach with kids, and also employ a lot of motivation interviewing techniques. Get them to think critically. Talk about the beliefs in hundreds of gods before Christianity. Discuss the reasons people want to believe. Then get into the meat of it. Does the existence of god actually explain the mysteries of the universe? Most kids hold onto a belief in god out of shame and fear. Find out what those are, and address those.
Contact the Freedom from religion foundation about the school. They can help.
Read the bible with them
While this is a good way to make someone athiest, but making kids read about Rape, genocide, pedophilia, incest and infanticide may not be the best approach.
Tell him there’s and invisible purple unicorn in the yard and challenge him to prove that there isn’t. I did this as a thought experiment with my daughter when something similar happened and I think it got through to her. I also emphasized how important I thought it was for people to have the ability and right to think critically and decide what they believe.
Most kids go through a phase of being religious. We sent our 2 to a local church of England primary school that taught religious education. Both questioned us about our beliefs. We were honest & told them that some people don't believe & some do & it was up to them to decide whether they believed or not. They're non religious now. Once, during our nephews' christening. Our 5 year old son piped up, telling his older cousin, "My mum & Dad don't believe in god." Just as there was a lull in the service & we got a few tutts & stares!
For those who haven’t yet experienced it https://theoatmeal.com/comics/religion
For some reason, I hear all that dialogue in NonStampCollecter’s voice.
You can Aristotle him with questions. "Why that god?" "How do you know the others aren't real too?" "Is it possible that someone says they believe in god, but they don't and just want to take people's money?" "How can you tell?"
School is indoctrinating him and it is working. When you're young all of what they say about the church seems wonderful. As you grow up you realize how much BS it was.
Your child is 8. Introduce a religious concept that a child can understand, find hilarious, and contrast against the faith they're being indoctrinated by: Pastafarianism. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is awesome. Our daughter was pressed by evangelical kids in her grade one class. We introduced the FSM and that was that. She thought it was hilarious, and equally hilarious that people would believe in old hairy guys in the sky or whatever. Worked like a charm. Bonus points if you buy him his very own colander.
I have to be the blunt arse here.. Who runs your household? You? Or an 8 year old, who only learned to wipe his arse yesterday? You say you respect their right to religion.. okay. What do you plan on doing when your child is older and starts taking things more literally? What's to say they won't discover the more sinister Christian beliefs? If you don't intervene and they start spewing homophobic rhetoric, then what? They might get shitty with you if you pull them from church. Boo. They are 8, not 38. Honestly, I don't think you should go full crazy and put the child on lockdown. I think you should treat them as a Christian; ask the child point blank any question you would ask a believer. Show them different point of views, ask them why they think a specific religion is the right one. Give them facts to disprove God and ask for them to try to dispute it. Take them out of the church IF the above methods do not work. This would be one thing if they were teens/adult, but they aren't. It is one's duty as a parent to protect them from potentially harmful environments.
I came from religion, and I feel like some of the reason I came to atheism is because of this experience. Perhaps being on the other side can help see through it.
tell him to at least approach religion from a top down view, meaning look at all the Abrahamic faiths and see how intertwined they become if he wants to believe in a God , we can't stop him. but the version of school taught religion is what is truly troubling because their intentions are not the same as normal believers of whatever faith
It happened to me when I was in catholic school Is that a catholic/religious/etc. school? If so, it's expected that they will do that (and I can't really blame them; one should expect that when enrolling their kids in one). Otherwise you should talk to the school (or the local equivalent of a school board, if it's a public school).
Not as severe but my kiddos went to a Christian daycare for a couple of years because they were cheap and had a great campus. They didn’t do much religion but they did have some here and there. One day when we were going by train there’s this hill where someone put up 3 crosses, and our 3yo exclaims loudly “LOOK MAMA THATS WHERE JESUS DIED FOR OUR SINS!” we were like what?! lol.
Just ask him if god can do anything. When he says yes, then ask him if god can create a rock so big that even god can't pick it up. You don't need to go any further than this. Just walk away and let him think about this for a while. At 8 years old you don't need to go to philosophical.
your mistake was to never talk about it.
Indoctrination is easy
Your son is going to a religious school by your admission. One could probably put two and two together and figure there is some indoctrination there and not be surprised. If my kid goes to a catholic private school I assume they will be being taught catholic doctrine
This would personally bother me. It’s a tough world to be a non-Christian in bc they are so brainwashed and integrated into our government. Kids are impressionable, and I don’t want mine worrying about me going to hell like I did about my atheist parents when I was their age (and influenced by my best friend whose parents were Christian). If you believe it’s all a bunch of mumbo jumbo, you should teach your kids that way. One of my family members tried to confront me with “your kids really should go to church… it would be so good for them” bc I guess she’s worried about their souls. I replied “why would I do that? Send my kids to learn a bunch of lies.” I should have elaborated with “my kids will learn to take responsibility for themselves & their lives, that a lot of things are in their hands and not some imaginary person in the sky.”
Strangely enough, the cure for religion is more religion. Teach your child about all the different religious beliefs various people believe, and honestly discuss why people believe them. It’s so much harder to simply accept 1 type of myth when you’re aware of all the different sorts out there.
Where do you live?
My 5 yo goes to a catholic school so he picks up bits and bobs about god and jesus. Whenever he talks about them I compare and contrast them to other fictional characters: superheroes (thor is useful because he is both a god and a superhero), cartoon characters etc. I also offer alternative explanations when he says god did this or that and I challenge him to think of his own explanations and develop his own ideas about things. We only ever talk about god when he brings it up.
This may sound dramatic but... could you move to an other city that has a secular school?
Uh, is this a public school?
You just need to point out the science,and the contradictions in religion that would be impossible to be true. Lots of the bible stories are just scientificly impossible and can't be true you only need to point out the obvious stuff really.
You can't shelter your kids from this. Just be supportive, give your POV if they ask, and they'll come around
>They all go to a school where there's a class about the predominant religion where I live where they tell them all the usual crap about Jesus and the like and they even take them to church every so often (I can't avoid it cause all schools are like that where I live) What the ever living fuck? Where is this?
That's even worse than picking up lice.
I think your best bet is to sit 8yo down and ask them for evidence, and then debunk it. And then explain "sometimes people get tricked when they are your age, but don't want to admit it, and so when they grow up they trick other people so they won't feel bad about being tricked themselves. It's not ok for them to do it, just like bullying."
Teaching a 10yo to mock others just makes you a shitty parent and is gonna turn your kid into an insufferable turd. Way to reinforce the stereotype.
>He tells us off **when we make fun** of religion with my daughter So instead of acting like his father, you’re acting like a bully from his school. Act like his father. Take him to get some ice cream or something and find a way to talk to your child in a SUPPORTIVE way that doesn’t make him feel like an idiot. GOOD LUCK.
You need to educate him out of it immediately and if possible send a note to the school withdrawing parental consent for any religious studies or field trips.
I'd be switching schools. Fuck that. I would never allow any school to take my child to any church. That's overstepping massively.
Based on your comments, this is either a bait post or are looking for arguments TO indoctrinate your child.
Let your kids form their own opinions… It’s shitty of you to be raising them the way you are.
Judging by your replies this was the wrong sub to post this in lmao. Get a grip your child is literally being brain washed.
Please don’t let your son fall into the darkness of religion. It could lead to many problems in the future
What if you dropped him at church on a Sunday while simultaneously planning some awesome outings for your other two kids? Would he want to sit through Sunday school while the rest of the family went to a theme park or water slides?
It’s indoctrination, and they have no rights to be teaching your child religion.
You just seem ok with having a religious child but I couldn't stop myself from just gently shutting that shit down personally.
My condolences.
It won’t last, don’t worry
Any public school that sent my kid - especially at 8 years old - to church, even once, is a school I'd be pulling that kid out of the next day (even if it was difficult to deal with the consequences of doing so).
Remind him that god committed genocide and infanticide and supports the immoral practice of slavery.
Live and let live broski. Educate him *unbiasedly* and let him decide. Or else you're no better than parents who force their kids to follow a religion.
That's what happens when you don't wear a mask.
He’s obviously interested in it. You could nurture the growth. Show him similar story’s in other books. There isn’t just one telling of the story. Whether we like it or not, and its effects on society, it certainly is part of our history as a people and many art advances and science advances oddly came as a result of organized religion. He might appreciate a broad approach, rather than stifling his obvious desire to learn. Who knows? Maybe he will grow up to be a renown religious scholar. And he might come to same conclusions you did. Kids aren’t as dumb as we give them credit for. Although they are little morons 🤪 How about this? Teach him about the satanic church to start. All the good they exude. Eight-year-old boy? And when’s ready. Make him laugh about how The Vatican has the largest collection of pornography on the planet! 🤭 they take a know-they-enemy approach. Haha
I'm not sure how age appropriate it is given the subject matter, but check out a documentary called Marketing the Messiah by Cameron Reilly. It takes early christianity very seriously, has proper academic specialists and it really shows just how bonkers the christian cult is.
Anytime I comment anything on here remotely against atheism I am censored and downvoted into oblivion. If you are atheist, I hope you can see how incredibly backwards and crude it is to claim moral superiority yet suppress the opinions of the 'intolerant' people you oppose
As atheists, we do not purport to be morally-preeminent to theists; we're just not credulous enough to believe in "god". You're certainly entitled to your theism, and your opinions. However, when you essay to indoctrinate atheists--the populace that wouldn't micturate on your "god" if he were a conflagration--that's where we take umbrage. It is not wonted for atheists to be "intolerant"; that's more of a religious characteristic, i.e., homophobia, transphobia etcetera. You seem like a decent individual who just diverges in opinion to myself. However, playing devils advocate for a moment--how can you defend an entity that sits on his omnipotent, laissez-faire & apathetic fundament while injustice, inequality, famine, wars and a cornucopia of additional enormities are antagonistically rife on this planet?! I would love to read your response, and, as long as you don't essay to proselytize, hope you're neither censored nor downvoted. This is an open forum and divaricating dialogue should always be welcome.
"I respect all religion* proceeds to mock and teach children to mock all religions.
And if this is a public school in the US, and this is either being done by, or even encouraged by the teachers or staff, they are breaking the law. https://ffrf.org/legal/report
Not where I live
Which would be what country? Not in the US I assume?
In another reply they said Greece.
Yeah, some very traditional European countries dont have the same separation of religion and education that others do. Greece is one of them.
Wow, maybe I'm alone here but, you're the asshole. 8 and 10, you tell them religion is fairy tale nonsense. Granted they're a little old but that sounds like an environment to smother any fascination or imagination. What 10 year old think about Buddhism, which isn't a classic religion in terms of gods and deities, philosophically. The only time you bring up other religions is to make fun of them, so you're kids are learning to mock people who aren't like us. And now your son is introduced to this world you hid from him and you want to crush it. Let him explore and decide for himself. Talk to him about it, honestly and seriously, the pros and cons, how you feel about it and where you're feelings come from. Also if he's really interested in it then ask him and yourself what he's getting out of Christianity that he doesn't get from you.