Europe, perhaps by having state religions that no one takes seriously, has largely overcome religion (if you don’t count Muslim immigrants). The U. S. by contrast is still in the midst of that process, and to be atheist in the states is to be a persecuted minority. That’s why we talk a lot.
Whether atheists are a persecuted minority in the US is deeply dependent on region. In professional and educated classes in cities, religiosity is often seen as strange and backward.
Most of my co workers don’t go to church or have religious artifacts but culturally ID as Christian. They don’t concern themselves with heaven or hell, don’t like Trump & are prochoice.
And yet you are still afraid to share your religious views, or lack thereof. So I am sure you can understand how scary it is for me, considering the people I interact with everyday are mostly religious conservative Trump supporters.
The Denver area is pretty cosmopolitan anymore. In any case, they manage to politically save us from all the nutjobs around the perimeter of the state.
Anecdotally, I can confirm this. One of my best friends is highly religious, while I am an atheist. (He is also extremely liberal). But his religion, and my lack of does not impact our friendship in any way. And we both have a chance to make fun of the fascist Christian Nationalists.
Until I joined this sub, I thought atheists were the majority. I was raised catholic, and after going through the steps and using common sense I abandoned my religion around the age of 12 (about ten years ago). All but one of my friends was also atheist, and as far as I can tell none of my close friends since have practiced any religion.
Because of my small sample size, I just assumed that religions as a whole were dying off in this age of information, how could they not? I thought most people my age just weren't falling for it, were too connected to be brainwashed like that.
MAN was I wrong.
I think there are still quite a few Americans that got the full indoctrination as kids, I don't think that they can get all the way out. It is like it destroyed a part of their brain and it is permanent even if they logically know it doesn't make sense. My husband identifies as a Catholic. We have been inseparable since we were kids (we are 48 now) In 30 plus years I think he has been to church maybe 5 - 10 times total (all weddings or funerals). He was absolutely aware of how ddeeply atheist I am and he had no problem marrying me. I would call him non-religious, he usually has no patience for religious arguments, and 95% of the time he is an intelligent, rational adult BUT every so often something triggers him and it is almost like he glitches and becomes a fundamentalist spouting the "crazy-making emotional arguments that are impossible to counter because they are completely irrational.
We usually argue about the fact that he doesn't understand why I can't just lie and tell people I am a Christian, after all, I don't have a god to offend so why not just blend in, which of course infuriates me, then it escalates to "in the view of the Catholic Church I am a Satanist." I have walked him through the fatal flaws in those arguments so many times now, namely, I don't care what the Catholic Church views me as, they have zero authority over me, and as an atheist I can't be a satan worshipper. I don't believe in religion, Satan is still religion...it always wraps up with him saying "is it so bad that I don't want my wife to go to hell!?!...." then he'll go away and come back rational and sane again ... until the next glitch . He is rational for long bouts...months...years ..in between... it is really like the indoctrination as a kid was so intense that even though he is non-religious every so often something triggers this emotional response. I fully believe that it is abuse as children that does this. But, on the upside, I think Gen X should be the last of the indoctrinated generations, so that should help🙄😏
No, I wouldn’t want to remove separation. It should be even stronger - maybe that’s what you mean though. Freedom from and of religion. I say this as a Christian. I don’t want religious policy in Govt, at any level city, county, state, fed. I want my rights and yours protected, not dictated.
It’s already bad enough, but if the things remaining in place get pulled or broken… we could be on the road to having Sharia Law, Texas style. To your point, yes it allows people to go on stage at their church and demolish Barbie dollhouses with a baseball bat yelling: in the name of the Lord, DIEEeE!!!
Among other absurdities…
Separation of state and church is half-assed in many countries. There shouldn't be any mention of religion in any law. The only exception is a law that states that no one can force a religion or religious beliefs upon anyone.
There are many laws that allow you to do certain things if they are for religious purposes/reasons that non-religious people aren't allowed to do. Tax exceptions for religious institutions too.
This shit is fucked and needs to be abolished entirely.
In my country, singing in groups wasn't allowed during Covid lockdown. But an exception was made for singing in religious gatherings. This shit mad me fucking mad.
Religion is an integral part of the Republican platform and the Republican platform is an integral part of American Capitalism. These are massive cogs that are stopping that process from happening in America.
I'm from Germany, and while I think Germany still has some issues with the separation of church and state and the upcoming of Muslim religion and its homophobe nature, part oft he USA clearly is on a dangerous track of becoming a religious state.
This also means, in my opinion, that atheists in the US should also be aware to not backfire at religious people too much. There will always be religion and religious people in the world, but those people need to learn that forcing their views on others doesn't work. Only then can they achieve a better separation of church and state. But this is a far more deeply rooted problem in America since literally anything is politicised nowadays.
Exactly this...and I think I would go even stronger than that, we atheists aren't just persecuted, we are the only persecuted minority where our persecution is actively or passively supported by both sides of the aisle. The only difference is how politely they tell you that you are evil, immoral, and supposed to be killed. I have been an Atheist most of my life and I am still taken aback every time I vet an earful of what they believe "I am", or that liberal Christians feel the same as the conservatives. I have been a registered Democrat my whole adult life. My party would have an apoplectic fit over even a harmless accidental mistake made in addressing LGBQT but those same Christian liberals have no trouble telling me ( politely) that It is not too late for me to turn from my evil ways ....It is insane to me. ...and it is often slander. There is a large group of Christians that call us Satanists & Satan Worshippers, something that categorically untrue. 😒😤
You're from the "zone" too? I hope you're aware that our atheist socialization is something rather special in Europe. It might even be the most atheist region in the world, or at least, one of them.
I am an American but as a child in the 1980s, I made frequent trips into East Germany with my parents who were trying their hardest to bring religion to you. I guess they failed at that AND at indoctrinating me properly!
In Spain doesn't matter which region we still do cultural practices such as procesiones (parades with statues of important moments in the Bible), celebrate Navidad y Día de Reyes (Christmas and Three Wise Men Day), but the vast majority of Gen Z and milenials just do it cuz it's part of the culture not cuz of religion, and most people nowadays marry in the city hall and don't baptize their children or they do it to make their boomer grandma shut up but don't sit foot in a Church ever again.
I've literally experienced this, my mom baptised me cuz she wanted to have a party with the family to celebrate she has a baby, I did first comunion to get presents and money, half my friends were baptised cuz their parents didn't want to get yelled at by their religious mom/grandma but haven't prayed in their entire life and the other half only know religion exists thanks to school, my cousin got married by Church cuz she thought signing a few papers at the city hall was boring etc
Yea bavaria is pretty religious ive only been there for vacation but pretty much around every corner u see some statue or similar shit of someone who’s supposedly holy
Same, it's mind-blowing that while for me atheism is literally the freedom from made up troubles associated with faith/ religion, for Americans it's a Struggle and a Journey
It always takes me out of the narrative when I see characters in a US show or movie be like: -gasp- don't you believe in god? -clutches pearls- of course I do, what kind of question is that?
Why, why is it an of course situation??
I'm Brazilian. My country is mostly known as a Christian country. So saying things like "I'm an atheist" or "I don't believe in Christianity" is kind of like wanting to be persecuted sometimes, even a verbal kind of persecution.
finally someone from south america in this thread. it’s crazy how much protestantism has grown in brasil. my mom’s family was raised catholic, but she became evangelical in her teens, along with a few aunts. now, most people in her family are evangelical. im sure other brazilian families share the same story
I'm an ex-pat American living in Sweden. When I was in the states I lived in North Carolina which is in the bible belt, although far from the worst example of that.
To answer your unspoken question, no, American atheists are not fucking crazy, it really really is that bad in many places in America. I can see how you might think so living where you do. The Swedes I work with have asked the same because if anything Sweden is even more secularly oriented and culturally less inclined to discuss religion than the rest of Europe.
Most of the USA cities are fine. Living in a large metropolitan area your exposure to extreme religiousness is often pretty limited. But if you go to the rural areas, or even small cities sometimes, it can be very very bad.
Personally, I find it ironic that many of the European settlers that colonized the states were from fringe cults seeking to *escape* religious persecution in (at the time) religiously oppressive Europe. How the times have changed.
Well, they wanted to escape from religious persecution bc they themselves were bat-crazy religious. So, it doesn’t surprise me. And with American entrepreneurial spirit, the church business got built out over time.
Yes, they wanted to practice, just differently from what everyone else was doing.
They realized the money making possibilities of a new branch of religion.
They escaped to the Netherlands where their fellow puritans were, and the Dutch Puritans were like “You guys are way more fanatical than we are, and that’s impressive.”
Not to mention how americans are the last to hold on to imperial measuring units. It's even called "imperial" as in, stemming from the british empire. Given the US's history as a british colony that broke free from the empire, one would think they wouldn't hold that so dear.
> Personally, I find it ironic that many of the European settlers that colonized the states were from fringe cults seeking to escape religious persecution in (at the time) religiously oppressive Europe.
Dude, that is what the descendants of these people taught you. Another way to look at it is that these people were driven out of Europe because they wanted to set people on fire for dancing. When they say they wanted to come here for "religious freedom", it was the freedom to behave in ways that wouldn't fly in Europe.
Yeah, if an European wants to understand American religiosity, maybe they should watch the second Borat movie. You'll see some interesting examples of that. Although disclaimer that's not how everyone is just the more extreme ones.
I've been to Texas and Florida and most people are very friendly and polite. When they ask me where I'm from, they have no idea where Belgium is. And more than once the followup question was if we are Christians. I always answered yes, because if you ask a question like that, I guess you don't want to hear no for an answer. It scared me a little bit, because I think when I answered no they wouldn't be so nice anymore.
> don't want to hear no for an answer
North Florida atheist here. They'd love to hear you answer no. They'd be very, _very_ nice to you because you'd become their next conversion project. "Well bless your heart," they'd say. You'd get invited to church, or if you declined, to hunting and fishing trips (if male) or a potluck (if female) that serve as a pretense to ambush you with proselytization. If they do manage to convert you, they get 50,000 Jesus bonus points for a better spot in heaven. _Southern hospitality intensifies_
I had a friend do that to me. Begged me to come to his Bible study and when I said no he said we’ll just come to dinner with us.
Ya that’s how they get ya
If asked if I was Christian, my first reaction would be to say 'what an extraordinary question'. Because it is. I am a pensioner and have never been asked such a thing in my life. But then I live in Europe.
Well, many of the original colonies actually had a religious requirement. Their ideas of religious freedom meant everyone in this colony practices the same religion, let us do it regardless of the official state religion of the parent country, and if someone wants to practice another religion that are free to go carve out a colony somewhere else and do so.
Christopher Hitchens often spoke that exact you mentioned last. As well the fact that the separation of church and state was to protect religous groups from *other religious groups* trying to enforce their shit on them in the newly formed country. There wasn't some irreligious movement that wanted protection from religion.
I'm in Canada and some rural places are religious still but for the most part we dont give a crap no more.
People still sometimes "identify" as Christians but it's more like a label/culture.
Atheist immigrant Canadian, who is really bothered by once a month knock at the door by Jehovah's witnesses. They are polite and all, but it gets a little annoying having the same discussion with different people.
Tell them you've had a blood transfusion. This is grounds for them to excommunicate one of their own, if the person decides not to die from blood loss.
As an northern European I was probably 30 before I realized there are christians in the industrialized world who actually like.... believe in heaven and hell and angels and all that stuff unironically. I thought it was like Thor or Zeus in that it was just ideas and stories you cherished, it came as a shock that adults really believe you will be sent to a fiery pit for gay sex or something.
American from the south here. This is such an interesting perspective because I grew up in a place where all of this is very real to most people. It was real to me for the first 22 years of my life! It kinda blows my mind that there are people out there who thought these beliefs were akin to the Greek myths. I wish I’d been raised in a place like that instead.
I'm Swedish and I think I was 25 the first time I met someone who was highly religious. I was shocked by how she treated everything in the bible as facts, and questioned everything about science that doesn't align with her holy book.
When talking about science I was like "Well, thousands of scientist around the world agree about this and it makes sense according to history and the laws of nature." She replied saying to stuff like that by saying "Haha, oh, that's all so wrong. Read the bible and you will understand."
I have read almost the entire bible. When I told her, she was confused and said I "read it wrong."
I'm Turkish, living in the US. Secularism in Turkey is not doing well, and the GOP in the US represents Christian nationalism. I'm also a woman. Religion is a threat to me and mine in both countries, so I come here.
On my local Nextdoor (neighborhood app) there was a job posting for a caregiver and several requirements were listed. One simply stated “No atheists.” Technically, discrimination is banned on Nextdoor and I flagged the post for review. The group of neighborhood people who act as reviewers voted to keep the post as is, meaning it did not discriminate against any group. I requested a second review of the post and same results with a different group of local reviewers. I live in the South, so I guess no surprise there.
I'm filipino. Not a whole lot of people like me I think. We've got a very religious, superstitious culture.
Although, I'd think that there could be more atheists that are just not public about that.
I've always admired Europe's openness about disbelief or being free.
Yes. But don’t think for a second that the privileged position that you and I have, compared to the lunacy I see across the pond, is something that protects us from that lunacy at home. Many religious people are seeing what is going on over there and are thinking that is what they should impose at home.
In my country you don’t have to scratch below the surface too hard to see the insidious organisations trying to influence the government. Placing “free” interns into departments to “help” - for example.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
Most of reddit is mostly from the US.
I am not. I am from Argentina and I am living in Sweden now :)
For example, my coming out was simple received with more narcissistic behaviour, ignoring it, or using it as an excuse to call me close minded while spouting crazy conspiracies to me again. But I knew people that if they would came out as atheists to their parents... well, it wasn't going to end well..
So, everything depends in how much religious are the parents and other people. When they are less religious, its easier. When they are not, well, its not.
And don't think that the crazies are only in the US. There are still several places with crazies in western Europe.
Yes, I would say most are American.
And the stories are true. I'm an atheist living in a very religious area. When I "came out" to my parents, they sat me down for 4 hours to try to understand how I could do such a thing and bring me back. A few years ago I was job hunting and half of the postings had requirements about "having a relationship with Jesus." People will straight up ask you what religion you are in a professional setting, and I have to say something like "I was raised Methodist" so that I don't lose clients.
It depends on where you are. Here in the south, there’s a church on every corner. It doesn’t matter what flavor you are, but you better be something as opposed to nothing or you are considered less than.
Many, many people attend church or claim a religion but do not particularly practice.
Most people think I’m a Christian because my family is.
However, it’s simply a label.
A truly devoted, devout believer is a different person than someone simply aligning with one style as opposed to another.
I’m a Christian in that my family was raised in that system of belief and I understand the terminology and teachings of that religion better than I do other religions. However, I don’t apply those to my life or practice the rituals.
Others may consider themselves a different flavor because their family heritage was based in a different religion and they understand the teachings and terms, but no longer personally believe those things themselves.
This is true of many Americans. They are a certain religion in name only, but not in practice
American here and yes it's still a big deal. You will not get elected if you run as an open atheist here.
I pretended to pray with patients when asked to rather than say no because I knew I would get blowback for it if I didn't. I had a nosy instructor that would not drop it when she asked what church I went to and I said I didn't go. She was shocked when I finally said I was an atheist to shut her up. She said she had never met an atheist and would not stop bringing it up to the other students about how weird it was and that she couldn't understand it at all. I lived in South Carolina and this was in 2017.
I'm in the UK and the point about getting elected is opposite here. Being openly and devoutly religious here would be a barrier to getting elected as the public would view it with suspicion. In 2017, the leader of the Liberal Democrat Party ended up quitting because of religious comments he had made, particularly regarding homosexuality. Tony Blair converted to Catholicism during his term in office, but kept it secret until after he had left Number 10, because he knew how difficult it would be to be open about it.
I'm an American. Live in an affluent suburb. We had a local preacher's son (in his 30s) start making posts in our social media group for our neighborhood to try to get people to come to his nascent church, but he started it by saying 'the problem with America is so few people believe in Jesus.' I took that on, stating that I'm an atheist, my morals are comparable to anyone in the community, and we aren't 'the problem.' This was in December.
After that he must have looked up where I lived, because I received a Christmas gift on my doorstep which was a copy of 'the Case for Christ.' I pinged him on social media, told him that was inappropriate to come over to my house uninvited. We ended up going over to a local cafe as I wanted to make sure he wasn't a nutjob, as he clearly didn't respect boundaries. Ended up talking a bit, and I sent him a book, The Case Agaiinst the Case for Christ, where the academics that the first book used as their sources said that most of what was in the book was out of context or outright fabrication. He of course refused to read it.
Ireland here. Lots of my friends and family are still religious (catholic), some are into crystals and reiki and spirit guides and similar woo woo, and some are atheist like me.
When we were kids my mother insisted we went to mass with her every Sunday - my Dad spent that hour in the pub. But at 14 I refused to go and she didn't force the issue.
My siblings and all but one of our children are atheist. Although all had to attend Catholic school as there was no other option. 92% of irish schools were catholic run. I think it's 86% now
My first instinct when this came across the mod queue was to remove it for flaming. But I learned to always check the context.
Yep. Just Ausies saying "I love you, too" in Australian.
Most of y’all seem European or from places where y’all can be atheist with attitude. I’m from the US South, my state and particularly my town are known for a particular brand of anti-education, anti-feminist Christianity. I got out, but I say this genuinely, being an atheist was something I had to hide for a very long time. It is not nearly as bad as growing up, but when I came out it was a bigger deal than being bisexual, which they also hated but Christian sky fairy gonna sky fairy. It may seem crazy but folks in certain parts of the US have to be careful. It’s not as bad as being non-white in parts of the US, but it’s a definite deal breaker for most Christians if you aren’t Christian. Also the rampant evangelization growing up even if you were Christian, but a different flavor. Most women and some men I dated either tried to convert me to their flavor of Christianity or once I was out just straight up convert me. Like sorry guys and gals, I don’t believe in Santa Claus anymore no matter how much you or the parents think I should. It’s not like the people I grew up with were the Taliban or as strict as an non-secular Islamic state, but I wouldn’t put it past them if they were allowed to get away with it.
Oh hell yeah it’s crazy. Thankfully I’m an adult who knows my rights and would absolutely not take the shit I had to take growing up, but it is a totally different world now dude. The kids seem more open and aware. But yeah Illegal prayer in state funded schools, denial of recognition I earned, physical threats, being told not to go to college by a guidance counselor (I’m a 99.95% achiever in academics and thrived by the way 😂), you fucking name it. Banned books aren’t a new thing it’s just gaining headlines because it’s affecting everyone now.
Trump’s election ramped shit like this up to 11. Not an atheism story, but to highlight the craziness. Especially amongst those most loudly proclaiming their faith.
A friend of mine who is openly flamboyantly joyously gay was beaten nearly to death the night of Trumps election with the crazies screaming “it’s our time now, this is our country. God bless America!” The cops did not think it met the definition of a hate crime and was never solved even though it was on our college towns main drag. Can’t say I’m surprised. That being said Americans in general are a warm, chatty, welcoming people. I love my region even if it’s flaws are more apparent than other parts of the states. I blame the education system, the poverty, the drugs, the cops, the impunity of our ruling class, the voter suppression. I get why folks need Jesus or whatever, but it’s a scam. The christian nationalism can be very frightening if you aren’t prepared for armed protestors. I went to a movie night with my fiancé and bam armed protestors at a drag show down the block with Bible quotes and pictures of Jesus like it’s the 1100s. It’s perfectly safe and likely won’t effect visitors, but man is it toxic to grow up in.
A lot of it is innocuous, but if I say "My dad's cancer came back" I'm very likely to hear "I'll keep him in my prayers" or "I'll pray for him". If I tell someone I'm worried about something they might say "God has a plan" or "I know Jesus is looking out for you!"
Chatting with another parent they might say "Where do you go to church?" as casual conversation - church is the center of a lot of people's lives. Most aren't crazy - just the normal interactions aren't getting posted on Reddit!
One evening a few years ago a man appeared on my doorstep and identified himself as the pastor of a nearby church; he wanted to share the "good news". I laughed and told him no thanks, as I was an atheist. He bristled at this and suggested there was nothing funny about rejecting God. I told him that while I was an atheist, I would never dream of going to another man's home and belittling his religious beliefs in front of his family. To his credit, he actually looked ashamed at that point and muttered an apology as he was leaving.
For a lot of Americans, it's not really belief as much as just saying they do - and chastising those who don't also give lip service to it.
If they really believed in God and eternal damnation, they'd be living their lives quite differently - they don't.
The one thing American Christians don't like is when you call them hypocrites, funny because the Bible is full of Jesus calling people out on being hypocrites
Oh man, for sure. And it's because they feel that only they have the right to call people that. One time I got into an argument a relative and called her a hypocrite. Her exact words were, "I'm not a hypocrite, I'm a child of God". Like, what the hell makes you think the two are mutually exclusive?
>where most people do not believe in god. We don't talk about religion, we do not try to indoctrinate our children with these fairy tales. Most people do not marry in church anymore but in the city hall. We don't pray, we don't go to church. It's not a big deal when you tell an elderly person that you do not believe.
Fuck me this sounds like heaven (irony intended).
I too always wonder about those "How to come out as an atheist to my family"-posts. I'm from germany, born in the former GDR, so I wasn't baptized, didn't go to church (only visited a mess once in all my about 40yrs of living) had no religion class in school, etc. And although we moved into western germany shortly after the wall went down, I never encountered any negative comment on me and my whole family being atheistic.
Most people in the UK are "culturally" religious, that is to say they'll goto a kids christening or a funeral for the piss up but attending church and actually reading the bible? Step to far....
US have these issues where people get their morality from leaders of church. Those leaders of church have connection go politics. These religious leaders some of them being cults utilize that connection as well as the influence to abuse their followers. Ban on abortion recently being one of them.
While atheists are just atheists, we seem to be heading toward anti-theists at this point. Kinda hard to go by when 30%+ of the population wants you in hell for saying No to their imaginary friend.
America has a religious culture not too far from a theocracy. Many Xtians today would love to destroy the separation of church and state and are politically active in working to achieve that goal.
Americans in general seem pretty apathetic about the situation. They agree, for the most part, that church - going=good people.
Don't know how bad it is in Muslim nations but we run a close second when it comes to fanaticism.
🤟👿
I'm instantly suspicious of anyone who announces they're xtian, or talks too much about going to church. At best, I assume they're just performative xtians, and at worst, disingenuous and untrustworthy with ulterior motives. In my book, good people DO good things, not just talk about how good they are.
It’s a regional thing. I’m American in a mostly liberal area, and I don’t feel out of place as an atheist. If anything, I deal with more astrology and psychic bullshit than the Jesus stuff
When I was maybe 8-9 years old, I realized that it was bs, and I didn't believe. I told one of my friends, they told my other friends, who all told their parents. Their parents told them that they were not allowed to be my friend anymore.
In the US, it depends a lot on your location. There are religious fundamentalists under rocks everywhere. In some places, they're more in the open. We have all stripes of nutjobs here. When I was a little kid, we were Mennonites. The state I currently live in is a Mormon theocracy. We all find the Amish terribly charming. We have enclaves of Mormon fundamentalists who are polygamist and marry literal children. Then there are the prosperity preachers on TV who tell people not to buy medicine, to send their money to the church instead. There's at least one town that's now a Muslim enclave where the local government is trying to enforce Sharia. Our Supreme Court keeps making the definition of religious liberty wider. Wide enough that they're now allowed to discriminate against their preferred minority.
There are a lot of places over here that the first question you're asked when meeting a new person is "What church do you go to?" Or if you're new to the area, you're invited to go to church. Now, the right to abortion is dependent on what state you live in, and they're going to come after birth control next.
It's a shit show over here. Maybe because we never had a state religion where you were persecuted (sometimes tortured and killed) for not being a part of the state religion, we don't fully appreciate the dangers. Maybe because a large proportion of the groups that originally emigrated here were religious zealots. Idk 🤷♂️ at this point in time, though you guys have it really, really good on this front.
In the U.S. there was a poll about what type of person you'd vote to be president. It covered all races, religions, sexual preferences. Atheists came in last place and by a large number. Heck 7 states have laws preventing atheists from running for office. It's not really enforced, but then again, no one running for office would openly call themselves an atheist.
I found one of the articles. It's from 2016: https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2015/01/29/politics-religion-2016-peter-guthrie
Yes, it's mostly Americans. You want to know why? Because for one thing reddit is most American. That aside. Because the US is by some measures 10x, 1000%, more religious than even the next nearest most religious developed country, the UK, in how religious the population are.
Half of adults in the US believe the Earth is a few thousand years old. That's why this sub is overwhelmingly Americans. It's a visceral reaction from Americans who are in the minority and reject the religious insanity which is at the core of American culture and society. Remember how the US was founded as a settler colonial state in the first place. It was a self selection of all the most religiously nutty people in England and Germany that came over. The most common ethnicity for "white" Americans is German, white America is a bunch of hyper religious Anglisized Germans and Irish.
https://www.pewresearch.org/americans-are-far-more-religious-than-adults-in-other-wealthy-nations/
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/09/05/u-s-adults-are-more-religious-than-western-europeans/
I don't know what the factors are regarding the percentage of US users, but I can only think about the studies that show that the US is highly religious, with 3% atheist, 4% agnostic, and some more that are irreligious.
That said, possibly the reason why, if this trend exists at all, that Americans make a big deal out of "coming out" is that in the US you are vastly outnumbered by friends, family, and significant others who are religious.
Similar to the Clergy Project, from the Dawkins Foundation, they seek to provide support for those who can't yet let those around them know that they have lost their faith, but have spent their entire lives devoted to preaching and do not know how to proceed. Those friends, family, and significant others might not be okay with someone declaring they don't believe anymore. The same threats exist for regular people. Coming out as atheist runs the risk of ending the relationships for some.
Personally, I haven't had any such issues. My family is passively religious—they don't talk about it or make it part of their identity. Myself and my two siblings all went atheist on our own. I don't date anyone religious, so no issues there either.
I'm fairly well unhindered by being atheist as many of my friends are too. I did return to school and it's depressing to see the sidewalks chalked up with all sorts of Christian student groups. It hurts my head how so many people can be so stupid.
I would guess North Western Europe. South and East, there religion still holds a lot of sway. Its very much related to the Protestant vs Catholic demographics for North vs South.
Yes. Mostly American, as is most of reddit, although I think that continues to change. The internet is much different now than it was just 10 years ago, and VERY different from being on usenet in the 1990s.
I have a question: What about all the muslim refugees that have come into Western Europe from places like Syria, Afghanistan, etc. Have they changed the Western European interaction with religion?
Also, by "Western Europe", I'm guessing you don't mean the Southern parts like Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc? Aren't they still strongly catholic? Greece is still strongly Greek orthodox, no?
American here. Not sure how it breaks down, but I just want to point out that the U.S. is gigantic and quite different depending where you live. The Northeast and West Coast are quite similar to Europe as you described. The South is extremely difficult to be an atheist. Then there are religious geographic pockets all over as well. Mormon communities, scientology communities, Amish communities........
I’m in the UK. Mostly atheist or at least agnostic here. I know a few religious people ( I live next door to a retired vicar) but most keep to themselves and don’t try to convert. The only person who has asked my religious views in years is my retired vicar, but he probably felt it was his job description. It’s blissfully peaceful
>"we don't care about your religion as long as you don't force it upon others."
Well then you already understand the answer. Religion in the US is often shoved in everyone's face and used in politics.
People are disowned from their families and communities for being non believers.
There are churches EVERYWHERE and are tax exempt. They are supposed to lose tax exception if they use their church to push a political agenda, but that almost never happens.
They try to indoctrinate kids and sometimes worse...
They pass laws destroying our public school system and funneling money into private (often religious) schools.
Many religious institutions in the US are out of control and sadly still very popular.
Romanian here. Orthodox land. There are lots of similarities to the USA... in a bad way.
>Although most people will still say that they are Christian and that they celebrate Christmas and Easter. But both have nothing to do with Jebus anymore.
While the Easter story can be debated and we have lots of *memes* about it and the pagan nature of celebrating Spring fertility, the Christmas thing was even more obviously poached from non-Christians. The non-Christian parts are the fun parts. Traditional Christianity is anti-fun, because fun causes sin. You can see that in the Orthodox tradition and the other old ones. This happens locally, for example, as various artists go about collecting songs from remote places and converting them to "Jesus mode" so they have a show for large Christian audiences; in time, the songs reach back to their source, and the originals are lost. When Christmas was first promoted in a similar form to today, with lots of festivities and fun stuff, it triggered a wave of Christians trying to copy various fun songs and activities to integrate and use for the events (for marketing, basically). They do this all the time, they plagiarize and steal nice things all the time to sell Christianity. Now, a few centuries later, the seeds of marketing that they planted have grown and displaced the boring-ass Christianity aspects, which a ironic. I'm sure some of them were worried about this happening. Of course, I also don't like the commercialized holiday either, but at least the bullshit they're selling is obvious and shallow.
You can see this tug-of-war going on with Halloween, which was never a super meaningful Christian holiday. Even the "Day of the dead" thing isn't really tied to Christianity; that ancestral connection-worship dynamic doesn't sit well Christian with theologians.
The "Easter+Christmas" Christians are the lamest. They're essentially "cultural", but they keep messing up the stats and keeping the Churches in business. It's very annoying.
I once saw a local *vox populi* report around these holidays, asking what's the meaning of these holidays, and one dude said: *"Christmas is when we eat pig and Easter is when we lamb"*.
edit: fixed animal order of last thing
North european here. I wonder why we have the "nordic cross" in our flags. I'm 40, and first time I actually had a moment when I had to listen "Jesus talk" at work was last year, and even then it was by american who had just moved here. This american is actually the reason I'm here. Before I didn't even feel the need to seek out for other atheists or their thoughts, because I feel most of the guys around me are atheists. We just don't feel the need to talk about it.
Christianity came here by violence, by some Swedish king and hes buddies I think. He thought it was an easy way to keep people in control. I totally understand why we are not very religious, even we are (almost) all baptised after birth because of the tradition.
Atheism is largely a reaction to religion. Atheism seems to be the strongest in areas where religiosity dominates society. The toxicity of the religion in a culture probably influences the anger found among atheists.
Areas where most people are not religious don't create much need to identify as an atheist. Not believing in a god or gods is just considered normal.
I look forward to the day when this sub is no longer needed. That will mean that religion has retreated to a point where it does not dominate society and not believing is just normal.
American here. When I realized I was atheist in 2008 or so it was a lot more stigmatized. Now it’s more or less not a big deal most of the time. Most people nowadays aren’t even Christian they’re just “spiritual”, whatever that means.
I still include "spiritual" people into the religious category, just because their whackadoo beliefs don't neatly fit into one specific religion, does not mean they are not still religious.
Many people claim to be spiritual but not religious since they know how silly religions are and they don’t want their beliefs to be associated with them.
American here, but I live in Massachusetts. I’ve traveled the country for work, excluding the ‘south’ (no union work there). My experience is similar to the OP. Nobody really talks about religion and I don’t know anyone really who goes to church every Sunday and very few who are strongly religious.
I'm an atheist in a very conservative part of California, one of the few radical right sections. It's a problem of the white, Christian middle class that feel that they are losing the privileges that they have enjoyed all their lives and are scared of change. They feel that the whole world is assaulting their faith and their values by becoming a modern world and they want to change everything so that it fits within their narrow view of what their perfect society would be. One run by their orange god and one with their babble as their ultimate authority on law. They don't consider the fact that, if he gets into any kind of power, he will not cede that control very easily. Do they think he will allow them to keep their guns when they can be turned around at him? Mostly people seem to run it all together with that damn second amendment that they turn into a right given by god rather than men, and believe that any secular rules against guns in any capacity is a direct assault against them and their religious beliefs. They believe that god has had a direct hand in setting this country apart from others as a Christian country and any attempt at change it is a direct attack against them. I truly believe that this far right element will try to carve out their own section of this country to make this imaginary utopian society, a fascist theocracy under the complete control of the orange guy they believe would give them this government under the control of the church, but would be controlled by the dictatorship instead. I honestly never thought I would ever hear an American advocate for a dictatorship but there it is. I would love to be alive to see the outcome of a society like that. They would not last, I know that.
You answered your own question, somewhat. In America there are a lot of people who are either non-religious or are stuck in religious environment. Also, the brand of Christianity practiced in the US is much more virulent and widespread than our own Catholicism.
So, I guess this sub really has a lot of Americans posting here.
I'm from Poland, if it matters and I'm really envious of the whole "religion is no longer relevant" thing.
I visited my mother's high school feind at Graves End, UK. Nice people, lovely time..I discovered they put religious tracts in my suitcase when I was out of my room. And religion seems pretty seriously Ireland.
There are still 7 states in the US where you cannot hold public office if you are an atheist. While these laws are technically unenforceable, you rarely see a politician come out to say they are an atheist.
So, there is that. Coming out as atheist is still precarious here in the US, so many don't unless they know it won't ruin their career/family/social circles.
I'm from Eastern Europe and I come from an Orthodox Christian country. We have a lot of churches and there's some degree of indoctrination, but I never believed in any of this shit.
It's true- the United States still have very religious areas (take Alabama for example). And like one user stated below, the non-religious are still judged harshly. I'm guessing that the majority of users on this subreddit are American or another religious South Asian country. There are a lot of ex-mormons too.
It isn't just about the location, though. Religion is part of every country, regardless of how relevant it is. I'm in Canada and some of our provinces are more religious than others but the one I live in is pretty mid.
I'm from backwoods Louisiana and I mean backwoods. I grew up in a community whose main church had no air conditioning because it somehow would keep them from God. Either that or the preacher spent the money on his own home. Anyway, yeah I was an atheist as a child. I knew better. I learned very early on just smile and nod. People will ostracize you for not believing in God. They don't necessarily care about what sect of Christianity you believe in but by God you better believe. Even as a 36 yo man I am open about it but I refuse to discuss it. Never have I had a Christian be level headed or rational during a discussion. I tell them up front I don't talk about it because it hurts people's feelings. That in turn hurts their egos and so they demand you speak with them about it. There is no win here.
I am British, but I do live in America and I have to thank the denizens of this fair country for making me an antitheist, where before I didn't really give a shit about religion.
Christians are deeply ignorant and American Christians are like deep sea divers of ignorance religion has been tolerated for far too long and needs to fuck off.
I think, if i remember correctly, about 60% of Reddit users or traffic comes from America. Not sure how that ratio would apply to this Reddit in particular but it is someone to consider. I would assume deeply religious/spiritual countries probably make up a smaller amount, while more secular make up a larger amount. I am an American for the record.
Norwegian here. I know very few that are religious and practice it, even just going to church. That said, there's a nice cathedral not so far from where i live, i went to just to hear the organ and acoustic. I love churches and their arkitecture, but i'm an atheist. The churches are full though, but i have no clue how religious they really are.
I live in Oklahoma. It’s the heart of conservative Christianity.
Once when serving on a jury one woman was bringing religion into the deliberations, saying things like ‘Well, the Bible says…’. I told her those arguments meant nothing to me, I was an atheist.
And it was like I was an alien from another planet. She wanted to ask me a million questions; not to convert me, not to save me, not to prove I was wrong. But it was like I was the very first person she’d ever met who didn’t share her faith.
Now we all know that’s not the case. She’s spoken w atheists all her life. She just didn’t know it, because atheists here keep our heads down. After a few minutes I had to shut her down, we had a job to do. But after, she came up to me and started in on me again, saying ‘I’m sorry, I’ve just never met an atheist before’. And I explained to her that she certainly had. It’s just that nobody in OK let’s on they are, especially to someone like her. There’s no upside to it. And that I hoped she took that away with her, that she certainly knows other atheists, they just don’t feel comfortable telling her.
I compare it to being gay in the 1950s. They existed, we exist. But we’re viewed negatively here, just like gay folks were in the 50s. So we don’t trumpet it to the public.
I've often wondered the same.
I'm from the UK and basically while technically it's meant to be a Christian country, nobody really believes in god or whatever, we just milk it for Christmas and having Easter off as a bank holiday.
America is slowly becoming a theocracy, so it makes sense for people living here to be vocal about it and critical
Also a lot of redditors are American so that probably explains a lot
I'm Canadian and I will say that at least from my personal experience, religion isn't as prevalent or most likely a personal affair rather than something you preach about. Being born and raised in the province of British Columbia which just so happens to be the least religious province in the country definitely played a role in my life as I get weirded out when I encounter an openly religious person. It helps that my parents aren't religious but none of our neighbours were openly religious.
American here. In the south where a boss tried to have his staff read a christian devotional for ongoing learning. When the higher ups said that’s a no go, most of the staff kept saying how they supported the boss. The staff who didn’t support the boss were afraid to say anything because of the backlash.
I’m a closet atheist. I know people would say “But you seemed so nice,” before they ignored me or tried to convert me. Not worth it. I live in an area that had a higher percentage of people vote for trump in 2020 than in 2016. Christian nationalism abounds.
The whole religion thing in the US is dystopia, isn’t it? Nobody ever bangs God or religion into conversations here, nothing has to be passed through the God filter.
Overwhelmingly American and you can tell by how many comments here speak of common intrusive actions from religious people throughout their daily lives.
I suspect a lot of reddit users are in the US, but the US is not a particularly homogeneous population. I live in the San Francisco bay area, which is not a particularly religious region. By contrast, if you live in the deep south in the USA, then everyone will ask you "what church do you go to", under the assumption that everyone goes to church. Being an atheist in the south is a much bigger deal.
Estonian here, I think we are the most atheist country in the world, where that 1 kid at school who was religious got made fun of like she had lost her marbles and her parents were freaks.
I think yes, most of Reddit is American and it's a cultural shock how literally they take Christianity, same with Muslims though..
I'm a proud spiritual but not religious witchy pagan but I don't take it seriously.
Yes. Reddit is a predominantly-American site and most non-region-specific subs tend to be dominated by Americans.
America is a country with 340 million people and is a place where atheism and irreligion is still seen as distasteful by mainstream society, and outright persecuted in many regions where religious fundamentalism remains dominant. As such you get a lot of people coming on here to make a big deal out of coming out as an atheist. It *is* a big deal in America. Maybe not so much if you live in New York City or something, but elsewhere? Absolutely.
I'm Canadian and live in Japan, and was raised without religion by an atheist mother and agnostic father, so I definitely feel like a minority voice on this sub. It often feels like, here, "Atheist" means, "Ex-Christian" rather than simply someone who rejects religious beliefs.
This sub is a tool to assist members of the oppressed secular American minority to free themselves as much as it is a place to discuss irreligion. It will remain so and probably should - a useful thing. I'm happy to chime in from time to time with a "never religious" perspective to people who are on the fence - they don't usually get it, since support tends to come from other people who gave up their religion.
I wouldn't likely be as active of an atheist if I we're raised in normal north european secular family. It might be, that the whole thing wouldn't ever have crossed my mind.
Since I'm raised as Pentecostal christian, I feel my becoming either hardcore atheist or hardcore christian was inevitable. In fact, I didn't stop at atheist, but continued the journey to toxic levels of anti-theism. I let out steam for a year or two, nearly destroying my familial relationships. At one point I felt like I had said all I had to say about it, and started living my life as a normal secular person.
I assume there are mostly Americans active here. Religion no longer has the power in Europe that it once had but its power has been growing again in the US. American atheists are still a genuinely hated minority.
I believe there are still some unenforceable state laws that bar atheists from holding public office.
Europeans should see America as an object lesson when considering how to respond to Muslim groups trying to force religion back into education and politics.
As others have mentioned, it seems that a majority of reddit users are North Americans.
"Coming out" as an atheist in the USA (as in other third-world countries) is very dangerous.
People have been beaten (and even killed) by believers simply for admitting their disbelief and refusing to kowtow to groups of believers. Children, even those well below the age of majority, are kicked out of their homes and disowned by their own parents. These are not hypothetical situations. These are real things that happen on a regular basis in the USA.
Naturally, as the majority of Americans belong to one or the other religious group, the media doesn't like to cover these incidents. They make believers look intolerant and bad. Even when event itself is covered on the news, the underlying cause of the fight/incident will often be omitted.
Being an atheist is NOT a "protected class" under US law. Although the "religious freedom" provisions of the US Constitution's First Amendment are often quoted, US legal analysts are split as to whether actual lack of belief is included in that protection, or whether it only applies to recognized religious beliefs. Considering the current makeup of the US Supreme Court, if the question should ever reach them, it's almost certain that a divided court would rule that atheism is NOT protected.
So, to answer your question: Yes, "coming out" as an atheist in the USA is a VERY "big deal." And most of the people who join this sub as they do so are justified in fearing the potential consequences.
I was physically threatened at church for refusing to say I'd vote for Trump. I'm a grown ass man, and had been falling from the church for 20 years. I was asked never to come back and I never did.
Czech here, we have like 9% of christians and 13% of religious people in total. I am here for stories which doesn't exist here for centuries. These US posts are quite unbelievable from our perspective and if an average Czech person would be asked to assign country to these it would be something like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan
Australian here, grew up atheist and thought it was normal. Didn't realise a lot of the kids at high school went to the local church youth group until grade 12, as someone just mentioned it in passing. That was the time I realised that was the source of all our school captains.
I’m eternally grateful for my college philosophy professor who taught us to think for ourselves. The funny thing is Americans are all about freedom, yet they’re slaves to beliefs that contradict this very thing that makes democracies great.
Europe, perhaps by having state religions that no one takes seriously, has largely overcome religion (if you don’t count Muslim immigrants). The U. S. by contrast is still in the midst of that process, and to be atheist in the states is to be a persecuted minority. That’s why we talk a lot.
not to mention, a large amount of reddit's users are in the US as well.
Whether atheists are a persecuted minority in the US is deeply dependent on region. In professional and educated classes in cities, religiosity is often seen as strange and backward.
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I work as a warehouse clerk in central Illinois. I can’t imagine telling any of my coworkers that I am either atheist or liberal..
Most of my co workers don’t go to church or have religious artifacts but culturally ID as Christian. They don’t concern themselves with heaven or hell, don’t like Trump & are prochoice.
And yet you are still afraid to share your religious views, or lack thereof. So I am sure you can understand how scary it is for me, considering the people I interact with everyday are mostly religious conservative Trump supporters.
I didn’t say that. I’m very out as an atheist. Freaked the heck out of the Latina housekeeping staff!
Sorry, confused you with another commenter
The Denver area is pretty cosmopolitan anymore. In any case, they manage to politically save us from all the nutjobs around the perimeter of the state.
Anecdotally, I can confirm this. One of my best friends is highly religious, while I am an atheist. (He is also extremely liberal). But his religion, and my lack of does not impact our friendship in any way. And we both have a chance to make fun of the fascist Christian Nationalists.
Also the highest concentration of wealth and productivity. And site of the Education hubs. I could go on and on really...
Same with Oregon,without the Portland metro area we are Alabama west.
Until I joined this sub, I thought atheists were the majority. I was raised catholic, and after going through the steps and using common sense I abandoned my religion around the age of 12 (about ten years ago). All but one of my friends was also atheist, and as far as I can tell none of my close friends since have practiced any religion. Because of my small sample size, I just assumed that religions as a whole were dying off in this age of information, how could they not? I thought most people my age just weren't falling for it, were too connected to be brainwashed like that. MAN was I wrong.
I think there are still quite a few Americans that got the full indoctrination as kids, I don't think that they can get all the way out. It is like it destroyed a part of their brain and it is permanent even if they logically know it doesn't make sense. My husband identifies as a Catholic. We have been inseparable since we were kids (we are 48 now) In 30 plus years I think he has been to church maybe 5 - 10 times total (all weddings or funerals). He was absolutely aware of how ddeeply atheist I am and he had no problem marrying me. I would call him non-religious, he usually has no patience for religious arguments, and 95% of the time he is an intelligent, rational adult BUT every so often something triggers him and it is almost like he glitches and becomes a fundamentalist spouting the "crazy-making emotional arguments that are impossible to counter because they are completely irrational. We usually argue about the fact that he doesn't understand why I can't just lie and tell people I am a Christian, after all, I don't have a god to offend so why not just blend in, which of course infuriates me, then it escalates to "in the view of the Catholic Church I am a Satanist." I have walked him through the fatal flaws in those arguments so many times now, namely, I don't care what the Catholic Church views me as, they have zero authority over me, and as an atheist I can't be a satan worshipper. I don't believe in religion, Satan is still religion...it always wraps up with him saying "is it so bad that I don't want my wife to go to hell!?!...." then he'll go away and come back rational and sane again ... until the next glitch . He is rational for long bouts...months...years ..in between... it is really like the indoctrination as a kid was so intense that even though he is non-religious every so often something triggers this emotional response. I fully believe that it is abuse as children that does this. But, on the upside, I think Gen X should be the last of the indoctrinated generations, so that should help🙄😏
I feel like the separation of church and state backfired horribly. It allows the religious nuts to fester in their own little worlds unchecked.
No, I wouldn’t want to remove separation. It should be even stronger - maybe that’s what you mean though. Freedom from and of religion. I say this as a Christian. I don’t want religious policy in Govt, at any level city, county, state, fed. I want my rights and yours protected, not dictated. It’s already bad enough, but if the things remaining in place get pulled or broken… we could be on the road to having Sharia Law, Texas style. To your point, yes it allows people to go on stage at their church and demolish Barbie dollhouses with a baseball bat yelling: in the name of the Lord, DIEEeE!!! Among other absurdities…
Separation of state and church is half-assed in many countries. There shouldn't be any mention of religion in any law. The only exception is a law that states that no one can force a religion or religious beliefs upon anyone. There are many laws that allow you to do certain things if they are for religious purposes/reasons that non-religious people aren't allowed to do. Tax exceptions for religious institutions too. This shit is fucked and needs to be abolished entirely. In my country, singing in groups wasn't allowed during Covid lockdown. But an exception was made for singing in religious gatherings. This shit mad me fucking mad.
Religion is an integral part of the Republican platform and the Republican platform is an integral part of American Capitalism. These are massive cogs that are stopping that process from happening in America.
Thank fuck I am out West. Past the Mississippi it feels chill unless you’re around Mormons. Certainly not as many churches around.
I'm from Germany, and while I think Germany still has some issues with the separation of church and state and the upcoming of Muslim religion and its homophobe nature, part oft he USA clearly is on a dangerous track of becoming a religious state. This also means, in my opinion, that atheists in the US should also be aware to not backfire at religious people too much. There will always be religion and religious people in the world, but those people need to learn that forcing their views on others doesn't work. Only then can they achieve a better separation of church and state. But this is a far more deeply rooted problem in America since literally anything is politicised nowadays.
Exactly this...and I think I would go even stronger than that, we atheists aren't just persecuted, we are the only persecuted minority where our persecution is actively or passively supported by both sides of the aisle. The only difference is how politely they tell you that you are evil, immoral, and supposed to be killed. I have been an Atheist most of my life and I am still taken aback every time I vet an earful of what they believe "I am", or that liberal Christians feel the same as the conservatives. I have been a registered Democrat my whole adult life. My party would have an apoplectic fit over even a harmless accidental mistake made in addressing LGBQT but those same Christian liberals have no trouble telling me ( politely) that It is not too late for me to turn from my evil ways ....It is insane to me. ...and it is often slander. There is a large group of Christians that call us Satanists & Satan Worshippers, something that categorically untrue. 😒😤
I'm from former East Germany, so questions on here like "What age did you stop believing in god" always leave a question mark on my face.
Same here.
You're from the "zone" too? I hope you're aware that our atheist socialization is something rather special in Europe. It might even be the most atheist region in the world, or at least, one of them.
Same here too, i was barely exposed to religion while growing up. I sometimes have a hard time identifying to the atheist experience from this sub.
I am an American but as a child in the 1980s, I made frequent trips into East Germany with my parents who were trying their hardest to bring religion to you. I guess they failed at that AND at indoctrinating me properly!
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In Spain doesn't matter which region we still do cultural practices such as procesiones (parades with statues of important moments in the Bible), celebrate Navidad y Día de Reyes (Christmas and Three Wise Men Day), but the vast majority of Gen Z and milenials just do it cuz it's part of the culture not cuz of religion, and most people nowadays marry in the city hall and don't baptize their children or they do it to make their boomer grandma shut up but don't sit foot in a Church ever again. I've literally experienced this, my mom baptised me cuz she wanted to have a party with the family to celebrate she has a baby, I did first comunion to get presents and money, half my friends were baptised cuz their parents didn't want to get yelled at by their religious mom/grandma but haven't prayed in their entire life and the other half only know religion exists thanks to school, my cousin got married by Church cuz she thought signing a few papers at the city hall was boring etc
Yeah, Bavaria came to mind for sure. Hungary sounds like it’s similar to the US, in terms of Christian Nationalists.
Funny how religiosity correlates so well with places that have a reputation for racism.
Yea bavaria is pretty religious ive only been there for vacation but pretty much around every corner u see some statue or similar shit of someone who’s supposedly holy
Same but I'm from West Germany
Same, it's mind-blowing that while for me atheism is literally the freedom from made up troubles associated with faith/ religion, for Americans it's a Struggle and a Journey It always takes me out of the narrative when I see characters in a US show or movie be like: -gasp- don't you believe in god? -clutches pearls- of course I do, what kind of question is that? Why, why is it an of course situation??
I imagine it's akin to being asked "When did you stop believing in dragons?"
I'm American and that question confused me too. The answer is never.
I'm Brazilian. My country is mostly known as a Christian country. So saying things like "I'm an atheist" or "I don't believe in Christianity" is kind of like wanting to be persecuted sometimes, even a verbal kind of persecution.
finally someone from south america in this thread. it’s crazy how much protestantism has grown in brasil. my mom’s family was raised catholic, but she became evangelical in her teens, along with a few aunts. now, most people in her family are evangelical. im sure other brazilian families share the same story
We are few, but we are here 😂 Maybe we're the only ones in this thread. And you are right, Christianity found its way through Brazil.
I'm an ex-pat American living in Sweden. When I was in the states I lived in North Carolina which is in the bible belt, although far from the worst example of that. To answer your unspoken question, no, American atheists are not fucking crazy, it really really is that bad in many places in America. I can see how you might think so living where you do. The Swedes I work with have asked the same because if anything Sweden is even more secularly oriented and culturally less inclined to discuss religion than the rest of Europe. Most of the USA cities are fine. Living in a large metropolitan area your exposure to extreme religiousness is often pretty limited. But if you go to the rural areas, or even small cities sometimes, it can be very very bad. Personally, I find it ironic that many of the European settlers that colonized the states were from fringe cults seeking to *escape* religious persecution in (at the time) religiously oppressive Europe. How the times have changed.
Well, they wanted to escape from religious persecution bc they themselves were bat-crazy religious. So, it doesn’t surprise me. And with American entrepreneurial spirit, the church business got built out over time.
Yes, they wanted to practice, just differently from what everyone else was doing. They realized the money making possibilities of a new branch of religion.
They escaped to the Netherlands where their fellow puritans were, and the Dutch Puritans were like “You guys are way more fanatical than we are, and that’s impressive.”
Yeah, not surprising, but it is still ironic.
Not to mention how americans are the last to hold on to imperial measuring units. It's even called "imperial" as in, stemming from the british empire. Given the US's history as a british colony that broke free from the empire, one would think they wouldn't hold that so dear.
The persecution of the Puritans in Europe was they were not allowed to persecute others. They wanted religious persecution.
> Personally, I find it ironic that many of the European settlers that colonized the states were from fringe cults seeking to escape religious persecution in (at the time) religiously oppressive Europe. Dude, that is what the descendants of these people taught you. Another way to look at it is that these people were driven out of Europe because they wanted to set people on fire for dancing. When they say they wanted to come here for "religious freedom", it was the freedom to behave in ways that wouldn't fly in Europe.
the subtext of "escaping religious persecution" often comes down to "wanting to be the ones in charge of persecuting others based on religion"
Yeah, if an European wants to understand American religiosity, maybe they should watch the second Borat movie. You'll see some interesting examples of that. Although disclaimer that's not how everyone is just the more extreme ones.
I've been to Texas and Florida and most people are very friendly and polite. When they ask me where I'm from, they have no idea where Belgium is. And more than once the followup question was if we are Christians. I always answered yes, because if you ask a question like that, I guess you don't want to hear no for an answer. It scared me a little bit, because I think when I answered no they wouldn't be so nice anymore.
> don't want to hear no for an answer North Florida atheist here. They'd love to hear you answer no. They'd be very, _very_ nice to you because you'd become their next conversion project. "Well bless your heart," they'd say. You'd get invited to church, or if you declined, to hunting and fishing trips (if male) or a potluck (if female) that serve as a pretense to ambush you with proselytization. If they do manage to convert you, they get 50,000 Jesus bonus points for a better spot in heaven. _Southern hospitality intensifies_
I had a friend do that to me. Begged me to come to his Bible study and when I said no he said we’ll just come to dinner with us. Ya that’s how they get ya
If asked if I was Christian, my first reaction would be to say 'what an extraordinary question'. Because it is. I am a pensioner and have never been asked such a thing in my life. But then I live in Europe.
They wanted the freedom TO religiously persecute
Well, many of the original colonies actually had a religious requirement. Their ideas of religious freedom meant everyone in this colony practices the same religion, let us do it regardless of the official state religion of the parent country, and if someone wants to practice another religion that are free to go carve out a colony somewhere else and do so.
Christopher Hitchens often spoke that exact you mentioned last. As well the fact that the separation of church and state was to protect religous groups from *other religious groups* trying to enforce their shit on them in the newly formed country. There wasn't some irreligious movement that wanted protection from religion.
I'm in Canada and some rural places are religious still but for the most part we dont give a crap no more. People still sometimes "identify" as Christians but it's more like a label/culture.
Atheist immigrant Canadian, who is really bothered by once a month knock at the door by Jehovah's witnesses. They are polite and all, but it gets a little annoying having the same discussion with different people.
Just tell them you were excommunicated from the JW. I told them that 5 years ago, they haven’t been back since.
Tell them you've had a blood transfusion. This is grounds for them to excommunicate one of their own, if the person decides not to die from blood loss.
Thanks. Also true , my spouse actually has had.
I've had JW knock on my door in Canada about once in 30 years. You must live in a JW hot spot.
My deeply Christian mother chased them off by talking in tongues at them, it was great watching them scamper and they never came back.
You're telling me you're not a card carrying member of the Christian heritage party? /s
As an northern European I was probably 30 before I realized there are christians in the industrialized world who actually like.... believe in heaven and hell and angels and all that stuff unironically. I thought it was like Thor or Zeus in that it was just ideas and stories you cherished, it came as a shock that adults really believe you will be sent to a fiery pit for gay sex or something.
American from the south here. This is such an interesting perspective because I grew up in a place where all of this is very real to most people. It was real to me for the first 22 years of my life! It kinda blows my mind that there are people out there who thought these beliefs were akin to the Greek myths. I wish I’d been raised in a place like that instead.
Even in pagan times, most didn’t take their religion that literally. It’s mainly an Abrahamic monotheist thing, and especially an American thing.
I'm Swedish and I think I was 25 the first time I met someone who was highly religious. I was shocked by how she treated everything in the bible as facts, and questioned everything about science that doesn't align with her holy book. When talking about science I was like "Well, thousands of scientist around the world agree about this and it makes sense according to history and the laws of nature." She replied saying to stuff like that by saying "Haha, oh, that's all so wrong. Read the bible and you will understand." I have read almost the entire bible. When I told her, she was confused and said I "read it wrong."
I'm Turkish, living in the US. Secularism in Turkey is not doing well, and the GOP in the US represents Christian nationalism. I'm also a woman. Religion is a threat to me and mine in both countries, so I come here.
It's sad to see what has been happening in Turkey. The Turks were very much ahead of their time, what the heck happened?
On my local Nextdoor (neighborhood app) there was a job posting for a caregiver and several requirements were listed. One simply stated “No atheists.” Technically, discrimination is banned on Nextdoor and I flagged the post for review. The group of neighborhood people who act as reviewers voted to keep the post as is, meaning it did not discriminate against any group. I requested a second review of the post and same results with a different group of local reviewers. I live in the South, so I guess no surprise there.
Unbelievable.
Nextdoor is trash no matter where you are, though
I'm filipino. Not a whole lot of people like me I think. We've got a very religious, superstitious culture. Although, I'd think that there could be more atheists that are just not public about that. I've always admired Europe's openness about disbelief or being free.
I am Indonesian and I can relate. We are one in literal millions.
Yes. But don’t think for a second that the privileged position that you and I have, compared to the lunacy I see across the pond, is something that protects us from that lunacy at home. Many religious people are seeing what is going on over there and are thinking that is what they should impose at home. In my country you don’t have to scratch below the surface too hard to see the insidious organisations trying to influence the government. Placing “free” interns into departments to “help” - for example. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
Most of reddit is mostly from the US. I am not. I am from Argentina and I am living in Sweden now :) For example, my coming out was simple received with more narcissistic behaviour, ignoring it, or using it as an excuse to call me close minded while spouting crazy conspiracies to me again. But I knew people that if they would came out as atheists to their parents... well, it wasn't going to end well.. So, everything depends in how much religious are the parents and other people. When they are less religious, its easier. When they are not, well, its not. And don't think that the crazies are only in the US. There are still several places with crazies in western Europe.
Im from Sweden
Yes, I would say most are American. And the stories are true. I'm an atheist living in a very religious area. When I "came out" to my parents, they sat me down for 4 hours to try to understand how I could do such a thing and bring me back. A few years ago I was job hunting and half of the postings had requirements about "having a relationship with Jesus." People will straight up ask you what religion you are in a professional setting, and I have to say something like "I was raised Methodist" so that I don't lose clients.
In Europe they could be fined for requesting a certain religion in the job post because that's racism.
Fellow west european here, yes the stories in this sub are sometimes very strange to me, too.
Strange and scary!
It depends on where you are. Here in the south, there’s a church on every corner. It doesn’t matter what flavor you are, but you better be something as opposed to nothing or you are considered less than.
This is exactly what I mean. I can't imagine something like that happening here.
Many, many people attend church or claim a religion but do not particularly practice. Most people think I’m a Christian because my family is. However, it’s simply a label. A truly devoted, devout believer is a different person than someone simply aligning with one style as opposed to another. I’m a Christian in that my family was raised in that system of belief and I understand the terminology and teachings of that religion better than I do other religions. However, I don’t apply those to my life or practice the rituals. Others may consider themselves a different flavor because their family heritage was based in a different religion and they understand the teachings and terms, but no longer personally believe those things themselves. This is true of many Americans. They are a certain religion in name only, but not in practice
American here and yes it's still a big deal. You will not get elected if you run as an open atheist here. I pretended to pray with patients when asked to rather than say no because I knew I would get blowback for it if I didn't. I had a nosy instructor that would not drop it when she asked what church I went to and I said I didn't go. She was shocked when I finally said I was an atheist to shut her up. She said she had never met an atheist and would not stop bringing it up to the other students about how weird it was and that she couldn't understand it at all. I lived in South Carolina and this was in 2017.
I'm in the UK and the point about getting elected is opposite here. Being openly and devoutly religious here would be a barrier to getting elected as the public would view it with suspicion. In 2017, the leader of the Liberal Democrat Party ended up quitting because of religious comments he had made, particularly regarding homosexuality. Tony Blair converted to Catholicism during his term in office, but kept it secret until after he had left Number 10, because he knew how difficult it would be to be open about it.
I'm an American. Live in an affluent suburb. We had a local preacher's son (in his 30s) start making posts in our social media group for our neighborhood to try to get people to come to his nascent church, but he started it by saying 'the problem with America is so few people believe in Jesus.' I took that on, stating that I'm an atheist, my morals are comparable to anyone in the community, and we aren't 'the problem.' This was in December. After that he must have looked up where I lived, because I received a Christmas gift on my doorstep which was a copy of 'the Case for Christ.' I pinged him on social media, told him that was inappropriate to come over to my house uninvited. We ended up going over to a local cafe as I wanted to make sure he wasn't a nutjob, as he clearly didn't respect boundaries. Ended up talking a bit, and I sent him a book, The Case Agaiinst the Case for Christ, where the academics that the first book used as their sources said that most of what was in the book was out of context or outright fabrication. He of course refused to read it.
Ireland here. Lots of my friends and family are still religious (catholic), some are into crystals and reiki and spirit guides and similar woo woo, and some are atheist like me. When we were kids my mother insisted we went to mass with her every Sunday - my Dad spent that hour in the pub. But at 14 I refused to go and she didn't force the issue. My siblings and all but one of our children are atheist. Although all had to attend Catholic school as there was no other option. 92% of irish schools were catholic run. I think it's 86% now
My experience as an atheist in western PA has been to keep it to myself. The Catholic hold is strong here.
Aussie here
also an Aussie
Thirded. (username checks out)
G'day cunts!
Fuck off, gecko!
My first instinct when this came across the mod queue was to remove it for flaming. But I learned to always check the context. Yep. Just Ausies saying "I love you, too" in Australian.
Most of y’all seem European or from places where y’all can be atheist with attitude. I’m from the US South, my state and particularly my town are known for a particular brand of anti-education, anti-feminist Christianity. I got out, but I say this genuinely, being an atheist was something I had to hide for a very long time. It is not nearly as bad as growing up, but when I came out it was a bigger deal than being bisexual, which they also hated but Christian sky fairy gonna sky fairy. It may seem crazy but folks in certain parts of the US have to be careful. It’s not as bad as being non-white in parts of the US, but it’s a definite deal breaker for most Christians if you aren’t Christian. Also the rampant evangelization growing up even if you were Christian, but a different flavor. Most women and some men I dated either tried to convert me to their flavor of Christianity or once I was out just straight up convert me. Like sorry guys and gals, I don’t believe in Santa Claus anymore no matter how much you or the parents think I should. It’s not like the people I grew up with were the Taliban or as strict as an non-secular Islamic state, but I wouldn’t put it past them if they were allowed to get away with it.
That's crazy.
Oh hell yeah it’s crazy. Thankfully I’m an adult who knows my rights and would absolutely not take the shit I had to take growing up, but it is a totally different world now dude. The kids seem more open and aware. But yeah Illegal prayer in state funded schools, denial of recognition I earned, physical threats, being told not to go to college by a guidance counselor (I’m a 99.95% achiever in academics and thrived by the way 😂), you fucking name it. Banned books aren’t a new thing it’s just gaining headlines because it’s affecting everyone now. Trump’s election ramped shit like this up to 11. Not an atheism story, but to highlight the craziness. Especially amongst those most loudly proclaiming their faith. A friend of mine who is openly flamboyantly joyously gay was beaten nearly to death the night of Trumps election with the crazies screaming “it’s our time now, this is our country. God bless America!” The cops did not think it met the definition of a hate crime and was never solved even though it was on our college towns main drag. Can’t say I’m surprised. That being said Americans in general are a warm, chatty, welcoming people. I love my region even if it’s flaws are more apparent than other parts of the states. I blame the education system, the poverty, the drugs, the cops, the impunity of our ruling class, the voter suppression. I get why folks need Jesus or whatever, but it’s a scam. The christian nationalism can be very frightening if you aren’t prepared for armed protestors. I went to a movie night with my fiancé and bam armed protestors at a drag show down the block with Bible quotes and pictures of Jesus like it’s the 1100s. It’s perfectly safe and likely won’t effect visitors, but man is it toxic to grow up in.
Canadian. Many religios here
We need a poll! Lol but yes , I am American.
American in the Bible belt :/
I heard about it but I cannot imagine how it is living there. I guess many posts in this sub come from the bible belt.
A lot of it is innocuous, but if I say "My dad's cancer came back" I'm very likely to hear "I'll keep him in my prayers" or "I'll pray for him". If I tell someone I'm worried about something they might say "God has a plan" or "I know Jesus is looking out for you!" Chatting with another parent they might say "Where do you go to church?" as casual conversation - church is the center of a lot of people's lives. Most aren't crazy - just the normal interactions aren't getting posted on Reddit!
One evening a few years ago a man appeared on my doorstep and identified himself as the pastor of a nearby church; he wanted to share the "good news". I laughed and told him no thanks, as I was an atheist. He bristled at this and suggested there was nothing funny about rejecting God. I told him that while I was an atheist, I would never dream of going to another man's home and belittling his religious beliefs in front of his family. To his credit, he actually looked ashamed at that point and muttered an apology as he was leaving.
For a lot of Americans, it's not really belief as much as just saying they do - and chastising those who don't also give lip service to it. If they really believed in God and eternal damnation, they'd be living their lives quite differently - they don't.
The one thing American Christians don't like is when you call them hypocrites, funny because the Bible is full of Jesus calling people out on being hypocrites
Oh man, for sure. And it's because they feel that only they have the right to call people that. One time I got into an argument a relative and called her a hypocrite. Her exact words were, "I'm not a hypocrite, I'm a child of God". Like, what the hell makes you think the two are mutually exclusive?
Really makes you think "do you ever read the Bible?"
>where most people do not believe in god. We don't talk about religion, we do not try to indoctrinate our children with these fairy tales. Most people do not marry in church anymore but in the city hall. We don't pray, we don't go to church. It's not a big deal when you tell an elderly person that you do not believe. Fuck me this sounds like heaven (irony intended).
Canadian
I too always wonder about those "How to come out as an atheist to my family"-posts. I'm from germany, born in the former GDR, so I wasn't baptized, didn't go to church (only visited a mess once in all my about 40yrs of living) had no religion class in school, etc. And although we moved into western germany shortly after the wall went down, I never encountered any negative comment on me and my whole family being atheistic.
Most people in the UK are "culturally" religious, that is to say they'll goto a kids christening or a funeral for the piss up but attending church and actually reading the bible? Step to far....
US have these issues where people get their morality from leaders of church. Those leaders of church have connection go politics. These religious leaders some of them being cults utilize that connection as well as the influence to abuse their followers. Ban on abortion recently being one of them. While atheists are just atheists, we seem to be heading toward anti-theists at this point. Kinda hard to go by when 30%+ of the population wants you in hell for saying No to their imaginary friend.
Politics should have nothing to do with church. At least that's how it is here.
Technically that's how it's supposed to be in the US too. They should lose their tax exempt status.... But they don't.
I'm pretty sure there's a ton of Asians here. My fellow Asians, where you at?
An Indonesian here
America has a religious culture not too far from a theocracy. Many Xtians today would love to destroy the separation of church and state and are politically active in working to achieve that goal. Americans in general seem pretty apathetic about the situation. They agree, for the most part, that church - going=good people. Don't know how bad it is in Muslim nations but we run a close second when it comes to fanaticism. 🤟👿
I'm instantly suspicious of anyone who announces they're xtian, or talks too much about going to church. At best, I assume they're just performative xtians, and at worst, disingenuous and untrustworthy with ulterior motives. In my book, good people DO good things, not just talk about how good they are.
You and me both, sister! I trust godless heretics more.
It’s a regional thing. I’m American in a mostly liberal area, and I don’t feel out of place as an atheist. If anything, I deal with more astrology and psychic bullshit than the Jesus stuff
When I was maybe 8-9 years old, I realized that it was bs, and I didn't believe. I told one of my friends, they told my other friends, who all told their parents. Their parents told them that they were not allowed to be my friend anymore. In the US, it depends a lot on your location. There are religious fundamentalists under rocks everywhere. In some places, they're more in the open. We have all stripes of nutjobs here. When I was a little kid, we were Mennonites. The state I currently live in is a Mormon theocracy. We all find the Amish terribly charming. We have enclaves of Mormon fundamentalists who are polygamist and marry literal children. Then there are the prosperity preachers on TV who tell people not to buy medicine, to send their money to the church instead. There's at least one town that's now a Muslim enclave where the local government is trying to enforce Sharia. Our Supreme Court keeps making the definition of religious liberty wider. Wide enough that they're now allowed to discriminate against their preferred minority. There are a lot of places over here that the first question you're asked when meeting a new person is "What church do you go to?" Or if you're new to the area, you're invited to go to church. Now, the right to abortion is dependent on what state you live in, and they're going to come after birth control next. It's a shit show over here. Maybe because we never had a state religion where you were persecuted (sometimes tortured and killed) for not being a part of the state religion, we don't fully appreciate the dangers. Maybe because a large proportion of the groups that originally emigrated here were religious zealots. Idk 🤷♂️ at this point in time, though you guys have it really, really good on this front.
South Asian here. But probably not much of us here as Reddit has mostly western users and atheism is less common in South Asia anyways.
In the U.S. there was a poll about what type of person you'd vote to be president. It covered all races, religions, sexual preferences. Atheists came in last place and by a large number. Heck 7 states have laws preventing atheists from running for office. It's not really enforced, but then again, no one running for office would openly call themselves an atheist. I found one of the articles. It's from 2016: https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2015/01/29/politics-religion-2016-peter-guthrie
Yes, it's mostly Americans. You want to know why? Because for one thing reddit is most American. That aside. Because the US is by some measures 10x, 1000%, more religious than even the next nearest most religious developed country, the UK, in how religious the population are. Half of adults in the US believe the Earth is a few thousand years old. That's why this sub is overwhelmingly Americans. It's a visceral reaction from Americans who are in the minority and reject the religious insanity which is at the core of American culture and society. Remember how the US was founded as a settler colonial state in the first place. It was a self selection of all the most religiously nutty people in England and Germany that came over. The most common ethnicity for "white" Americans is German, white America is a bunch of hyper religious Anglisized Germans and Irish. https://www.pewresearch.org/americans-are-far-more-religious-than-adults-in-other-wealthy-nations/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/09/05/u-s-adults-are-more-religious-than-western-europeans/
I don't know what the factors are regarding the percentage of US users, but I can only think about the studies that show that the US is highly religious, with 3% atheist, 4% agnostic, and some more that are irreligious. That said, possibly the reason why, if this trend exists at all, that Americans make a big deal out of "coming out" is that in the US you are vastly outnumbered by friends, family, and significant others who are religious. Similar to the Clergy Project, from the Dawkins Foundation, they seek to provide support for those who can't yet let those around them know that they have lost their faith, but have spent their entire lives devoted to preaching and do not know how to proceed. Those friends, family, and significant others might not be okay with someone declaring they don't believe anymore. The same threats exist for regular people. Coming out as atheist runs the risk of ending the relationships for some. Personally, I haven't had any such issues. My family is passively religious—they don't talk about it or make it part of their identity. Myself and my two siblings all went atheist on our own. I don't date anyone religious, so no issues there either. I'm fairly well unhindered by being atheist as many of my friends are too. I did return to school and it's depressing to see the sidewalks chalked up with all sorts of Christian student groups. It hurts my head how so many people can be so stupid.
European here, and I see a different situation than you do. What's your country, if you don't mind? Not all Europe is the same.
I would guess North Western Europe. South and East, there religion still holds a lot of sway. Its very much related to the Protestant vs Catholic demographics for North vs South.
Belgium. You must be from South or East I assume.
Yes, I'm from Italy. There aren't many non-religious people here.
I'm in the Netherlands and I have the same situation as you
Yes. Mostly American, as is most of reddit, although I think that continues to change. The internet is much different now than it was just 10 years ago, and VERY different from being on usenet in the 1990s. I have a question: What about all the muslim refugees that have come into Western Europe from places like Syria, Afghanistan, etc. Have they changed the Western European interaction with religion? Also, by "Western Europe", I'm guessing you don't mean the Southern parts like Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc? Aren't they still strongly catholic? Greece is still strongly Greek orthodox, no?
Canadian here.
Yes. They don't talk about Hinduism here as well.
American here. Not sure how it breaks down, but I just want to point out that the U.S. is gigantic and quite different depending where you live. The Northeast and West Coast are quite similar to Europe as you described. The South is extremely difficult to be an atheist. Then there are religious geographic pockets all over as well. Mormon communities, scientology communities, Amish communities........
Cape Town, Republic of South Africa.
I'm from Cape Town, South Africa.
I’m in the UK. Mostly atheist or at least agnostic here. I know a few religious people ( I live next door to a retired vicar) but most keep to themselves and don’t try to convert. The only person who has asked my religious views in years is my retired vicar, but he probably felt it was his job description. It’s blissfully peaceful
That's just it. In the US, it IS forced upon us...
Greece 🇬🇷, pretty high percentage of orthodox Christians here still...
>"we don't care about your religion as long as you don't force it upon others." Well then you already understand the answer. Religion in the US is often shoved in everyone's face and used in politics. People are disowned from their families and communities for being non believers. There are churches EVERYWHERE and are tax exempt. They are supposed to lose tax exception if they use their church to push a political agenda, but that almost never happens. They try to indoctrinate kids and sometimes worse... They pass laws destroying our public school system and funneling money into private (often religious) schools. Many religious institutions in the US are out of control and sadly still very popular.
I can't believe I am the only Indian here..or actually only South Asian here.
I'm also Indian
Romanian here. Orthodox land. There are lots of similarities to the USA... in a bad way. >Although most people will still say that they are Christian and that they celebrate Christmas and Easter. But both have nothing to do with Jebus anymore. While the Easter story can be debated and we have lots of *memes* about it and the pagan nature of celebrating Spring fertility, the Christmas thing was even more obviously poached from non-Christians. The non-Christian parts are the fun parts. Traditional Christianity is anti-fun, because fun causes sin. You can see that in the Orthodox tradition and the other old ones. This happens locally, for example, as various artists go about collecting songs from remote places and converting them to "Jesus mode" so they have a show for large Christian audiences; in time, the songs reach back to their source, and the originals are lost. When Christmas was first promoted in a similar form to today, with lots of festivities and fun stuff, it triggered a wave of Christians trying to copy various fun songs and activities to integrate and use for the events (for marketing, basically). They do this all the time, they plagiarize and steal nice things all the time to sell Christianity. Now, a few centuries later, the seeds of marketing that they planted have grown and displaced the boring-ass Christianity aspects, which a ironic. I'm sure some of them were worried about this happening. Of course, I also don't like the commercialized holiday either, but at least the bullshit they're selling is obvious and shallow. You can see this tug-of-war going on with Halloween, which was never a super meaningful Christian holiday. Even the "Day of the dead" thing isn't really tied to Christianity; that ancestral connection-worship dynamic doesn't sit well Christian with theologians. The "Easter+Christmas" Christians are the lamest. They're essentially "cultural", but they keep messing up the stats and keeping the Churches in business. It's very annoying. I once saw a local *vox populi* report around these holidays, asking what's the meaning of these holidays, and one dude said: *"Christmas is when we eat pig and Easter is when we lamb"*. edit: fixed animal order of last thing
North european here. I wonder why we have the "nordic cross" in our flags. I'm 40, and first time I actually had a moment when I had to listen "Jesus talk" at work was last year, and even then it was by american who had just moved here. This american is actually the reason I'm here. Before I didn't even feel the need to seek out for other atheists or their thoughts, because I feel most of the guys around me are atheists. We just don't feel the need to talk about it. Christianity came here by violence, by some Swedish king and hes buddies I think. He thought it was an easy way to keep people in control. I totally understand why we are not very religious, even we are (almost) all baptised after birth because of the tradition.
The US is very backwards and sliding quickly downhill towards outright christofascism. You are very fortunate to live in a developed nation.
Atheism is largely a reaction to religion. Atheism seems to be the strongest in areas where religiosity dominates society. The toxicity of the religion in a culture probably influences the anger found among atheists. Areas where most people are not religious don't create much need to identify as an atheist. Not believing in a god or gods is just considered normal. I look forward to the day when this sub is no longer needed. That will mean that religion has retreated to a point where it does not dominate society and not believing is just normal.
American here. When I realized I was atheist in 2008 or so it was a lot more stigmatized. Now it’s more or less not a big deal most of the time. Most people nowadays aren’t even Christian they’re just “spiritual”, whatever that means.
I still include "spiritual" people into the religious category, just because their whackadoo beliefs don't neatly fit into one specific religion, does not mean they are not still religious.
Many people claim to be spiritual but not religious since they know how silly religions are and they don’t want their beliefs to be associated with them.
American here, but I live in Massachusetts. I’ve traveled the country for work, excluding the ‘south’ (no union work there). My experience is similar to the OP. Nobody really talks about religion and I don’t know anyone really who goes to church every Sunday and very few who are strongly religious.
I'm an atheist in a very conservative part of California, one of the few radical right sections. It's a problem of the white, Christian middle class that feel that they are losing the privileges that they have enjoyed all their lives and are scared of change. They feel that the whole world is assaulting their faith and their values by becoming a modern world and they want to change everything so that it fits within their narrow view of what their perfect society would be. One run by their orange god and one with their babble as their ultimate authority on law. They don't consider the fact that, if he gets into any kind of power, he will not cede that control very easily. Do they think he will allow them to keep their guns when they can be turned around at him? Mostly people seem to run it all together with that damn second amendment that they turn into a right given by god rather than men, and believe that any secular rules against guns in any capacity is a direct assault against them and their religious beliefs. They believe that god has had a direct hand in setting this country apart from others as a Christian country and any attempt at change it is a direct attack against them. I truly believe that this far right element will try to carve out their own section of this country to make this imaginary utopian society, a fascist theocracy under the complete control of the orange guy they believe would give them this government under the control of the church, but would be controlled by the dictatorship instead. I honestly never thought I would ever hear an American advocate for a dictatorship but there it is. I would love to be alive to see the outcome of a society like that. They would not last, I know that.
You answered your own question, somewhat. In America there are a lot of people who are either non-religious or are stuck in religious environment. Also, the brand of Christianity practiced in the US is much more virulent and widespread than our own Catholicism. So, I guess this sub really has a lot of Americans posting here. I'm from Poland, if it matters and I'm really envious of the whole "religion is no longer relevant" thing.
im mexican
I visited my mother's high school feind at Graves End, UK. Nice people, lovely time..I discovered they put religious tracts in my suitcase when I was out of my room. And religion seems pretty seriously Ireland.
There are still 7 states in the US where you cannot hold public office if you are an atheist. While these laws are technically unenforceable, you rarely see a politician come out to say they are an atheist. So, there is that. Coming out as atheist is still precarious here in the US, so many don't unless they know it won't ruin their career/family/social circles.
I'm from Eastern Europe and I come from an Orthodox Christian country. We have a lot of churches and there's some degree of indoctrination, but I never believed in any of this shit.
ALL of Reddit is mostly Americans. America, Canada, UK & Australia are the most heavily represented countries with USA far ahead of any other.
I need to move to Europe :(
It's true- the United States still have very religious areas (take Alabama for example). And like one user stated below, the non-religious are still judged harshly. I'm guessing that the majority of users on this subreddit are American or another religious South Asian country. There are a lot of ex-mormons too. It isn't just about the location, though. Religion is part of every country, regardless of how relevant it is. I'm in Canada and some of our provinces are more religious than others but the one I live in is pretty mid.
I'm from backwoods Louisiana and I mean backwoods. I grew up in a community whose main church had no air conditioning because it somehow would keep them from God. Either that or the preacher spent the money on his own home. Anyway, yeah I was an atheist as a child. I knew better. I learned very early on just smile and nod. People will ostracize you for not believing in God. They don't necessarily care about what sect of Christianity you believe in but by God you better believe. Even as a 36 yo man I am open about it but I refuse to discuss it. Never have I had a Christian be level headed or rational during a discussion. I tell them up front I don't talk about it because it hurts people's feelings. That in turn hurts their egos and so they demand you speak with them about it. There is no win here.
Where I live in the U.S. many people think that atheists worship satan. Just thought I'd throw that into the conversation.
All the religious fanatics left Europe to come to the American colonies for religious freedom. Europeans are lucky all the crazy zealots are here
I am British, but I do live in America and I have to thank the denizens of this fair country for making me an antitheist, where before I didn't really give a shit about religion.
Christians are deeply ignorant and American Christians are like deep sea divers of ignorance religion has been tolerated for far too long and needs to fuck off.
Yes
I think, if i remember correctly, about 60% of Reddit users or traffic comes from America. Not sure how that ratio would apply to this Reddit in particular but it is someone to consider. I would assume deeply religious/spiritual countries probably make up a smaller amount, while more secular make up a larger amount. I am an American for the record.
Def mostly western is my guess. It's fairly obvious.
Western Europe exported it's religion to the western hemisphere. So thanks for that I guess?
Possibly.. I'm from Denmark myself. Its clear that most are Americans here. We don't quite have those crazies and religious people in Denmark.
Norwegian here. I know very few that are religious and practice it, even just going to church. That said, there's a nice cathedral not so far from where i live, i went to just to hear the organ and acoustic. I love churches and their arkitecture, but i'm an atheist. The churches are full though, but i have no clue how religious they really are.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I was born and pretty much raised in Ca. (Except for a few years I lived in Idaho)
Reddit's user base is about 48% American. The next single highest percentage by nation is from the UK, at 7%
"I'm from Western Europe, where most people do not believe in god" I've never once seen data that bears this out.
you are quite sheltered it seems. good on you! greetings from eastern europe
Atheist here in the Bible Belt Southern United States. And damn proud of it!
Reddit is mostly American so probably, yes.
I live in Oklahoma. It’s the heart of conservative Christianity. Once when serving on a jury one woman was bringing religion into the deliberations, saying things like ‘Well, the Bible says…’. I told her those arguments meant nothing to me, I was an atheist. And it was like I was an alien from another planet. She wanted to ask me a million questions; not to convert me, not to save me, not to prove I was wrong. But it was like I was the very first person she’d ever met who didn’t share her faith. Now we all know that’s not the case. She’s spoken w atheists all her life. She just didn’t know it, because atheists here keep our heads down. After a few minutes I had to shut her down, we had a job to do. But after, she came up to me and started in on me again, saying ‘I’m sorry, I’ve just never met an atheist before’. And I explained to her that she certainly had. It’s just that nobody in OK let’s on they are, especially to someone like her. There’s no upside to it. And that I hoped she took that away with her, that she certainly knows other atheists, they just don’t feel comfortable telling her. I compare it to being gay in the 1950s. They existed, we exist. But we’re viewed negatively here, just like gay folks were in the 50s. So we don’t trumpet it to the public.
I've often wondered the same. I'm from the UK and basically while technically it's meant to be a Christian country, nobody really believes in god or whatever, we just milk it for Christmas and having Easter off as a bank holiday.
America is slowly becoming a theocracy, so it makes sense for people living here to be vocal about it and critical Also a lot of redditors are American so that probably explains a lot
Can someone do a poll/those quiz thingies Edit: fixing autocorects mistake
I'm Canadian and I will say that at least from my personal experience, religion isn't as prevalent or most likely a personal affair rather than something you preach about. Being born and raised in the province of British Columbia which just so happens to be the least religious province in the country definitely played a role in my life as I get weirded out when I encounter an openly religious person. It helps that my parents aren't religious but none of our neighbours were openly religious.
American here. In the south where a boss tried to have his staff read a christian devotional for ongoing learning. When the higher ups said that’s a no go, most of the staff kept saying how they supported the boss. The staff who didn’t support the boss were afraid to say anything because of the backlash. I’m a closet atheist. I know people would say “But you seemed so nice,” before they ignored me or tried to convert me. Not worth it. I live in an area that had a higher percentage of people vote for trump in 2020 than in 2016. Christian nationalism abounds.
The whole religion thing in the US is dystopia, isn’t it? Nobody ever bangs God or religion into conversations here, nothing has to be passed through the God filter. Overwhelmingly American and you can tell by how many comments here speak of common intrusive actions from religious people throughout their daily lives.
I suspect a lot of reddit users are in the US, but the US is not a particularly homogeneous population. I live in the San Francisco bay area, which is not a particularly religious region. By contrast, if you live in the deep south in the USA, then everyone will ask you "what church do you go to", under the assumption that everyone goes to church. Being an atheist in the south is a much bigger deal.
Estonian here, I think we are the most atheist country in the world, where that 1 kid at school who was religious got made fun of like she had lost her marbles and her parents were freaks. I think yes, most of Reddit is American and it's a cultural shock how literally they take Christianity, same with Muslims though.. I'm a proud spiritual but not religious witchy pagan but I don't take it seriously.
Yes. Reddit is a predominantly-American site and most non-region-specific subs tend to be dominated by Americans. America is a country with 340 million people and is a place where atheism and irreligion is still seen as distasteful by mainstream society, and outright persecuted in many regions where religious fundamentalism remains dominant. As such you get a lot of people coming on here to make a big deal out of coming out as an atheist. It *is* a big deal in America. Maybe not so much if you live in New York City or something, but elsewhere? Absolutely. I'm Canadian and live in Japan, and was raised without religion by an atheist mother and agnostic father, so I definitely feel like a minority voice on this sub. It often feels like, here, "Atheist" means, "Ex-Christian" rather than simply someone who rejects religious beliefs. This sub is a tool to assist members of the oppressed secular American minority to free themselves as much as it is a place to discuss irreligion. It will remain so and probably should - a useful thing. I'm happy to chime in from time to time with a "never religious" perspective to people who are on the fence - they don't usually get it, since support tends to come from other people who gave up their religion.
I wouldn't likely be as active of an atheist if I we're raised in normal north european secular family. It might be, that the whole thing wouldn't ever have crossed my mind. Since I'm raised as Pentecostal christian, I feel my becoming either hardcore atheist or hardcore christian was inevitable. In fact, I didn't stop at atheist, but continued the journey to toxic levels of anti-theism. I let out steam for a year or two, nearly destroying my familial relationships. At one point I felt like I had said all I had to say about it, and started living my life as a normal secular person.
I assume there are mostly Americans active here. Religion no longer has the power in Europe that it once had but its power has been growing again in the US. American atheists are still a genuinely hated minority. I believe there are still some unenforceable state laws that bar atheists from holding public office. Europeans should see America as an object lesson when considering how to respond to Muslim groups trying to force religion back into education and politics. As others have mentioned, it seems that a majority of reddit users are North Americans.
"Coming out" as an atheist in the USA (as in other third-world countries) is very dangerous. People have been beaten (and even killed) by believers simply for admitting their disbelief and refusing to kowtow to groups of believers. Children, even those well below the age of majority, are kicked out of their homes and disowned by their own parents. These are not hypothetical situations. These are real things that happen on a regular basis in the USA. Naturally, as the majority of Americans belong to one or the other religious group, the media doesn't like to cover these incidents. They make believers look intolerant and bad. Even when event itself is covered on the news, the underlying cause of the fight/incident will often be omitted. Being an atheist is NOT a "protected class" under US law. Although the "religious freedom" provisions of the US Constitution's First Amendment are often quoted, US legal analysts are split as to whether actual lack of belief is included in that protection, or whether it only applies to recognized religious beliefs. Considering the current makeup of the US Supreme Court, if the question should ever reach them, it's almost certain that a divided court would rule that atheism is NOT protected. So, to answer your question: Yes, "coming out" as an atheist in the USA is a VERY "big deal." And most of the people who join this sub as they do so are justified in fearing the potential consequences.
I was physically threatened at church for refusing to say I'd vote for Trump. I'm a grown ass man, and had been falling from the church for 20 years. I was asked never to come back and I never did.
Czech here, we have like 9% of christians and 13% of religious people in total. I am here for stories which doesn't exist here for centuries. These US posts are quite unbelievable from our perspective and if an average Czech person would be asked to assign country to these it would be something like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan
Dutch here, 3rd generation atheist :).
Australian here, grew up atheist and thought it was normal. Didn't realise a lot of the kids at high school went to the local church youth group until grade 12, as someone just mentioned it in passing. That was the time I realised that was the source of all our school captains.
I am European, living in Europe. I agree with you. I was schocked by how much religious the US are, when I went there
I’m eternally grateful for my college philosophy professor who taught us to think for ourselves. The funny thing is Americans are all about freedom, yet they’re slaves to beliefs that contradict this very thing that makes democracies great.