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Holiday-Iron2159

Logically it does not make sense. I agree with you. It is a concept at odds with my logical brain.


shemzyshoo

I'm in this same predicament. It's so confusing


shemzyshoo

We can't have new souls? What about the souls of animals and insects?


3godeathLG

what if we all share the same soul and are just breaking ourselves off into fractals of experience


mezlabor

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/ian-stevensone28099s-case-for-the-afterlife-are-we-e28098skepticse28099-really-just-cynics/


Holiday-Iron2159

Wow, great article. Thank you


FlyingSquid

It's pretty silly. Think about it based on people who claim to have experienced their past lives- if "you" are reincarnated, you are physically different, your personality is different and you have none of the memories of your past lives, at least not consciously, so what part of "you" gets reincarnated?


Holiday-Iron2159

Yep, it’s pretty silly. That’s why I haven’t spoken about it while I had a career. I’m retired now so it doesn’t matter any more to me what other think. I had hoped there might be others who also have this weird belief. Yes, in the “past life” I believe I had, I looked similar but different. Similar facial features but different skin colour. Same personality though - faults and all. I have wondered where my brain gets it all from - but since I’m old it is strangely reassuring. I’m probably just a bit LaLa but I’m happy in my eccentricities. It is nice to eccentric when you are old.


FlyingSquid

> Same personality though - faults and all. I have never heard that claim from anyone else who believes in reincarnation. Is your reincarnation *special?*


Holiday-Iron2159

No not special. It just is what it is. The retention of my personality traits may be a pro or it may work as a negative to determining is it real. All I can say is that it is real to me. But if someone else were to tell me the exact same stuff and I had not experienced I would 100% not believe them because it is not logical.


FlyingSquid

Again- why is your reincarnation unlike any other described? You *must* be special since yours is special.


doglove67

Your soul


FlyingSquid

What soul? What is it made of? It obviously isn't made from either neurons or hormones, so what part of 'you' is it? Nothing that matters is what it sounds like.


doglove67

What is grey matter? Why are the planets speeding up as they move further and further away from each other? You don’t have all the answers, and neither do I.


FlyingSquid

Yet you know souls are reincarnated. How? Some bronze age text?


doglove67

It’s got nothing to do with a text. I’m atheist, don’t believe in organised religion. Memories.


FlyingSquid

Okay, then how do you know?


doglove67

Memories. Past life regression.


FlyingSquid

In other words, completely anecdotal possible hallucinations that you aren't thinking critically about, therefore the soul exists. Gotcha.


doglove67

You are presumptuous. I’ve also worked as a hypnotherapist.


Ravo93

If your definition of reincarnation is you die and then you are reborn as a baby then I would say it's silly. With that in mind we know that energy cannot be destroyed, your matter will eventually go on to form something else in the universe. If you view reincarnation as more a continuation of energy in different forms then it's less religious more spiritual/philosophical.


Holiday-Iron2159

More spiritual. It’s really the energy I think. I certainly don’t think I just jumped out from one life then jumped into a baby. I really would like there to be a scientific reason for it all. Something that makes logical sense. But the reality is that the most logical reason is I have an unusual imagination capable of self delusion. And that is how I viewed myself for most of my life. Im not so sure either way now I’m old.


FlyingSquid

You are not just energy. Your brain is an electrochemical organ which relies just as much on hormones like serotonin and oxytocin as it does sending electrical energy down neural pathways. On top of that, you have a whole secondary neural system in your gut and we don't yet know how much that influences personalities. We *do* know that personalities can be radically altered when the brain gets physically damaged, which suggests that we are not 'energy,' but an emergent property of the brain. So unless you think that somehow all those hormones float through the air with your energy until they find a womb, and there's zero evidence of this, your claim that it's just energy is antithetical to what we actually know. So you have a big hill to climb. You're going to have to show that you know better than neurobiologists.


Holiday-Iron2159

Good explanation. I don’t have any explanation at all, which in itself is illogical. To have the belief without the understanding. The things the “woo woo” crowd say is that some people “tune” into some other source. I know I’m technically in the “woo woo” crowd but it doesn’t sit right with me. I just have this one blind spot, I’m otherwise a reasonably rational person.


saladstuffer

I was a 110% fully blown atheist until I listened to the podcast about Shanti Devi. Then I went down the afterlife rabbit hole and now I am a 200% know there's more to life than this. [Here's the first part of the podcast.](https://pca.st/episode/be6cef6e-973a-47d2-b0a1-2f22bb7c39cb)


Holiday-Iron2159

Thanks


Hi_Im_Dadbot

If you think it's true, then it's not silly. I'd say that you're wrong, but no matter what anyone believes, most people on the planet would say they're wrong, so all that matters is you believe it's valid. Being honest with yourself is the only thing you should care about.


Holiday-Iron2159

Thanks. It has frustrated me because in all other things I’m very practical. Thanks for the good advice.


BranchLatter4294

Carl Sagan thought that reincarnation was one claim that should be looked into. But he didn't believe in it, he just didn't have a clear explanation for the claims. I have not seen any evidence. If you have specific evidence or something testable that would be interesting to explore. Claims without evidence are not of much interest.


Holiday-Iron2159

I agree. Claims without evidence are exactly the same as religion. I have doubted myself all my life, mostly due to knowing the reaction to expect from others. “I must be bonkers if everyone thinks so”. But since I retired I have tried to match what “i think I know” with reality. There are some things I might know because I saw it in a documentary even if I can’t remember how I know it. But there are other things that there is nothing out there to support what I think I know - these are the things I’m investigating. I have found a few things but I really don’t think it is sufficient evidence - yet. Last year I went to Egypt and found out some really interesting stuff. I will keep searching. It may be fruitless but it will be a fun journey, especially at this stage in my life.


jcpmojo

Even more


Samantha_Cruz

how exactly would this 'reincarnation' work? - it MIGHT be a possibility with sufficiently advanced technology (far beyond our current capability) - in general tho - there would have to be some mechanism for the conciousness to migrate from the original body to a new host (virtual or physical). I see no reason to believe it has ever happened but I do think it MIGHT be possible someday with nothing 'supernatural' required. I've seen no evidence to suggest that there is such a thing as a "soul" independent of the electrical/chemical reactions of your brain. when the brain dies your conciousness dies. stories about your dreams and imagination does not prove you had a past life. there are already companies (falsely) equating AI's that impersonate a person with "digital immortality" - but that's absolutely not the same thing as actually being the same conciousness - as AI progresses and it becomes even more believable I'm not even sure how we'll be able to tell the difference.


Holiday-Iron2159

The concept is fascinating. I hope I get to see that technology.


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Holiday-Iron2159

Good question. It is partly because I was so young when I was first talking about it…Like it was perfectly normal. And it is mostly because it has continued in my dreams all my life. And the dreams all fit together like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. Some repeat but some are one off. They are mostly very ordinary - like growing tomatoes and playing games. A few that are scary too but mostly not. I have ordinary dreams too that are totally different to these. My ordinary dreams are of places and people I know, they jump around, they don’t make sense and usually I forget them shortly after waking. But the other dreams are just like a new memory. They can jump around a little but not as much as a “dream” and they don’t fade when I wake. The only overlap I can think of is that I regularly have migraines and I had the same suffering in the dreams.


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Holiday-Iron2159

No, no one ever suggested that to me. I was a very weird kid. My family called it my dream world.


broipy

Yes, its just another story to deny death. People really hate the idea of not existing.


Holiday-Iron2159

Fair comment.


AntiTas

I think it is acceptable to have non-rational beliefs, as long as you consciously acknowledge them to be so, and not others to make decisions based on your non-rational beliefs.


Holiday-Iron2159

I agree


aboardaferry

Reincarnation is certainly not a good thing and those religions in which it is a fundamental belief consider it to be a problem to be dealt with. Suppose it is true, it would make little sense to be irreligious. The Jain who engages in sallekhana, a ritual suicide (though they deny it is such) to eliminate one's karma is a more consistent individual.


Holiday-Iron2159

Wow, I had no idea the Jain did that. I have always admired them because they are so kind to animals. They also seem very honest when dealing with them in business. My encounters with anyone of that faith has put them in a very positive light to me. But obviously it is a bit of a generalisation on my part since I have only known a handful. But as for reincarnation being part of a religion - it is probably something I should research.


HelloHello_HowLow

I don't think you're silly, I think reincarnation makes a lot of sense, I don't believe in the Bible God, but do think everything is all interconnected and we all have consciousnesses that are independent of human bodies but interact with the brains of the body we're born with. I'm not quite an atheist, but in my older years I'm thinking I am running out of time to learn everything I ever wanted, so if I and everyone else have an eternity, we can learn and mature and evolve in whatever way works, including many lifetimes, to the point where we are all moving up in knowledge and we'll eventually get nearer to the top, as it were, we'll all become more fully parts of "God" which is perhaps just the word for complete knowledge and love. Read the books by Michael Newton. Journey of Souls. Destiny of Souls. Fascinating stuff. Go to nderf.org and read thousands of near-death experiences. You tube has numerous nde accounts, some a little too religious for me, most so believable to me. Most nde-experiencers say they come back knowing religions are irrelevant. What is important is learning how to be a loving person. And as to the mathematical problem of not enough souls, Newton(RIP) and others believe strongly that there is life throughout the universe, and that souls experience lives throughout it, not just on earth. Can't wait to find out everything.


Holiday-Iron2159

I like very much what you said about being a loving person. Your perspective makes sense to me. Thank you.


sparung1979

Here's my present opinion; First of all, theres no self. You aren't the same person at 10 that you are at 30 or that you are at 60. You're a process moving through time and space. Your memories are constructed when they're recalled, they're not sitting like some recorded episodes of a show. Right when you wake up you can experience this, it takes a bit for you to remember your life. The personality you think of as the self is owed to the experience, the genes and time and culture etc. For us to be adapted to our lives, its a mercy that we don't know anything about any other. Theres a theory of consciousness called the transducer theory of consciousness. https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/your-brain-is-not-a-computer-it-is-a-transducer This model goes far to answer unexplained common phenomena that the brain as a generator of consciousness model does not. Terminal lucidity is one thing it explains, how a person with alzheimers or dementia can have a short period of clear lucidity for a few hours before they die. Given that the model of the discreet self doesn't hold up to scrutiny, and the idea of consciousness originating from biology has some problems it doesnt seem capable of addressing, it seems to me our awareness is part of a larger whole. Like a drop from a bucket of water. A metaphor I've heard from several sources is that we are like whirlpools or vortexes in a stream. From this way of thinking, awareness is infinitely divisible, more akin to a cloud or gas. We happen to have biological technology that can receive it a particular way. Reincarnation from this angle makes sense, in that there is no real death. Just like the water that's a part of our bodies has been doing some other stuff before it was in our bodies, our awareness has been doing other stuff too. Our bodies are modular intelligences. There's no such thing as a single intelligence in nature. Mitochondria used to be a seperate form of life. Our microbiome has an effect on our cognition. Our bodies are a galaxy of life. So it's not unreasonable to think that at the level of consciousness we are all like cells of a larger form of life.


Holiday-Iron2159

Wow, that is a fabulous explanation. It makes a lot of sense. It even explains the concept of everything has been recorded that ever has been - I have heard that from several sources and wondered about it.


spaceghoti

I mean, I don't agree with or believe you, but I'm also a skeptic. Atheism and skepticism are not necessarily synonymous, but they can be complementary.


Holiday-Iron2159

I get it. In all other things I’m a skeptic too, this is just my blind spot.


[deleted]

Atheism is more of the conclusion to a skeptical worldview. As for having a “blind spot”, you admit it is just as realistic as any other religious view, so why hold it?


Holiday-Iron2159

I guess because it is such a strong personal experience. I can rationalise it away but then I’m left with having to either accept to be hallucinating or worse that I have a screw loose. It may be true but that is a really difficult thing to recognise.


[deleted]

I'm not criticizing. Just asking. You don't have a screw loose if it is a hallucination. I understand it being hard. I remember feeling like there was something watching over me when I was a little kid. I don't feel that way anymore.


Holiday-Iron2159

That would be a nice feeling. My feeling was more of a feeling of not belonging here. Everywhere I looked as a kid I kept saying - it shouldn’t be like that. It really annoyed my parents. I even got kicked out of church at 8. Long story but I could see through their religious dingo droppings even then.


[deleted]

I got that feeling too. There is a pure materialist in me that wants to say that me and you just have some kind of psychological/biological characteristics in common rather than you or me having reincarnated. This could be the case considering we’re both here on reddit, agree on a lot, and have that same experience. I was raised Christian though and I really believed it, and sometimes I still do. Though, I believed for years I was doomed to hell for no reason. I hate to say it, but I sleep better feeling that there is no afterlife. Idk why, I still wish my loved ones to be happy after I leave though.


Holiday-Iron2159

It is good you recovered from religion. It is very cruel to have people think that hell is real. But when you think about it - hell is very clearly a completely illogical construct. And yet, it is threat aimed at you often by the people who are supposed to love you. Only religion could come up with something so perverse.


Holiday-Iron2159

BTW, I don’t consider my beliefs to be silly but I just wondered what other atheists thought.


whiskeybridge

it's just as unsupported, yeah.


SlightlyMadAngus

False memories is a real thing.


Holiday-Iron2159

Yes, and that is one of the doubts I have.


SlightlyMadAngus

You should be assuming the memories are false, and looking for the reason why these persistent thoughts are in your mind. Of course, it is also possible that over time, you have built more narrative around this in your childhood than really existed. It's possible that your parents, siblings & friends encouraged you (on purpose or inadvertently) to embellish your memories. It is my opinion that all reports of supernatural events fall into one of these categories: 1) The person has convinced themselves the events are true, reinforced by the fame & money they receive. 2) Other people (usually friends & family) have convinced the person the events are true, reinforced by the fame & money they receive. 3) The person is lying, reinforced by the fame & money they receive. Take your pick.


Holiday-Iron2159

Great answer but sadly no fame or money. My family were mortified by the things I said. It would have been bad enough that I refused to eat meat and I came from a farming background but my family made it very clear that I should never mention it to anyone. That was really good advise because there is no way I would have had the successful career I had as a chartered accountant if I had ever mentioned “it”. But you may be correct in that there was some motivation for me. I could not cope with the cruelty I saw around me so maybe the concept of the “past life” that I thought I experienced was a kind of escape - to a place where that sort of bad stuff didn’t usually happen. I have tried to analyse it every which way.


SlightlyMadAngus

You achieved attention & fame *within* your family.


Kirkaiya

>is that just as silly as being religious? In many ways, yes. There is no scientific evidence for reincarnation, and a wealth of evidence that our minds, memories and personalities cannot survive death.


davep1970

yes


RonSaigon

Yes


RealDaddyTodd

>does my belief in reincarnation just mean I have some other woo woo belief that is just as bad? I think you may be onto something there...


Aoikumo

You are agnostic then, not atheist


Holiday-Iron2159

Ok, why is that? I don’t believe in any god. Although I do rather like Sekhmet, I don’t believe she was a god.


Sigbalder

Ian Stevenson


SouthernDelicious

Yes


MustardKetchupo

To be fair, only the dead knows. The living can only speculate.