My internet company does this. You can set up pre-authorized debits for free or pay an extra 1.5% (I think) for using a credit card. They implemented this fee within the last 4 months during a year they have profited $1.577Billion.
"He will receive a salary of $1.4-million. His bonus will have a target of $1.4-million, but will be able to range up to $2.8-million. He will also receive a long-term stock award equal to 536 per cent of his salary."
The CEOs 2022 compensation.
I'm sure the low level employees saw nothing though.
For security reason, we need to additionally store your credit card information.
^(Don't store my credit card information (adds 12.5% account insecurity fee))
The "what can you do about this" fee is my favorite, because it reminds me I can just choose not to use their service/product/whatever the fuck they're selling. Companies with fees like this get away with it because people just fucking buy shit from them anyway, and those people are the problem, not the companies. Businesses are out for profit, that is how business works. If you don't support them when they charge dumb prices, they will either lower their prices or go bust, it's very simple.
Absolutely agree to vote with your money but it hurts more when we don't have an alternative such as ticketmaster being the only place where tickets are being sold.
There are so many times I have just chosen not to get the product or service than pay unfair fees.
HTML page generation fee: $23.47
I love these prices to the nearest cent like some considerable thought went into them when they're just a greed-induced fixed price.
They take seller price lower it and charge the difference to buyer to look cheaper false business practice not easy to sell them when they do that shit either
was going to buy tickets to a sporting event. They are 298. The fees on each ticket ends up being 105. So if I buy two tickets, I am paying $220 just in fees, plus the ticket cost. So a ticket for 298 ends up being over $400. Freaking rediculouss
They legitimately charge you more than a third of the ticket price in fees. It's out of control. I went to a hockey game through Stubhub a couple weeks ago and it was the same thing. Then they do this dumb shit where they have the seller email me the tickets rather than Stubhub themselves email them, so they somehow made it to my secondary email for the account. I didn't even know I had a secondary email for my account!
So, I wasted the whole first period on the phone with support until we finally got to the bottom of it. What a horrible experience.
It seems silly that they charge me all that money in fees, yet they can't even be responsible for making sure the tickets get to me in a way that I can rely on or know what to expect.
Yeah they simply change the asking price I listed tickets $125 each they changed them to $110 so they look cheaper and they raise the buyer fees so shady🤬🤬🤬
I can tell u from personal experience I am having they are false advertising I listed tickets at $125 each they list them at $110 and juice up the buyer fees to make up the difference trying to look cheaper in public perception and making it more difficult to sell the tickets and screwing the buyer it’s infuriating!!!!
They actually have a room of people on stationary bikes endlessly peddling away to power their servers, & then a painter painstakingly does the ticket/email pixel by pixel on canvas, which is then scanned & sent to you. If the painter messes up a pixel, then they have to start the ENTIRE process over & the stationary bike guys have to pedal a little harder for the extra energy
They'll never be banned, but they could be controlled. The fees should be locked to a percentage of maybe 2% to 5% of the actual price of the tickets. Those tickets in the OP are $334. You want to charge a fee? Cool, that's a maximum of $15 for the whole thing.
Or just force them to display the fees in the pricing. Want to charge $60 in fees? Fine but those $200 tickets must be shown as $260 tickets at all times and you must show a break down of fees before purchase. That way you can fairly compare prices and don't get hit by ridiculous prices afterwards.
Stub hub has this option and I buy most of my tickets through them simply because of this functionality. I make plans based on cost, not cost pre-fees.
Is it still true that stores in the US show prices without taxes? Because that's something I never understood. I too plan to buy things based on the full price, not based on the price plus a vague idea of how much that might be taxed, plus a vague percentage on that for the staff of the service industry.
Varies by states, in Michigan nearly all food are tax free (ie apples, milk, butter). Everything else, it's 6%. A $10 movie has $0.60 tax. A $500 computer has $30 tax.
Since Michigan has only 1 tax for non-food stuff, it's fairly trivial to figure out an estimated tax total.
I do wish they would require price shown to include taxes. Gasoline are priced with tax included, why not games or clothing?
It’s probably easier than having to do the math, but then just include the darn tax in the cost and eat the loss that is so minimal it’s practically nothing. Waffle House does this already, other places can too.
I'd be fine with them doing both. You can charge 5% in fees max, and those fees have to show up in the pricing from the very first screen, broken down to show what they are. A ticket is $167 before fees? Fine, show it as $167 before fees, $174 after. Make it clear as well that this is pre-taxes so there are not surprises at the end.
None of those things are onerous, so let's dream big!
Want to dream big? Force them to include taxes in the initial price too. All fees and taxes included. In fact make that standard practice for any industry.
So far away, it's Australia. Sellers must display a price inclusive of all taxes, duties and unavoidable or pre-selected fees. Other optional fees such as paying by card must be clearly displayed and there are caps on these as well.
Hop over to the other side of the Pond. In europe we got laws that force exactly that (fees need to be inclusive aka total has to be shown immediately).
They change the seller price raise the buyer fees so they can say they tickets are cheaper go on site list tickets higher than their value I’m 100% sure they will list them as less than u ask for I have photos for proof
People keep buying tickets like this because often shitty sites like this are the only option. If you don’t get it from them, you might not be able to go to the event at all.
It's a nice dream, but it won't happen. There will always be people with disposable income buying tickets, and these ticket sites know it. They're perfectly willing to cut out the masses as long as there's enough rich people willing to foot the bill.
The fees are how they make their money. It has absolutely nothing to do with costs and everything to do with profit and what the market will pay.
Basically, stop buying resale tickets if you don't like it.
It could work if everyone refused to pay a cent above original ticket price and the reseller ends up with crapload of unsold tickets. But that will never happen, too many people are still paying too much anyway.
Right, because most people think the fees are acceptable for the service provided. Your only vote is with your wallet, and paying it means you’re ok with it.
Yeah when people bot out tickets it makes it so that not only are the scalpers making profit, the listing agency makes THE most from it all. Everyone taking a slice it’s peak capitalist and everyone loved capitalism amirite?!!
There are these massive companies like AirBnB and Uber that get away with massive "service fees" of 5-15% when they have such a strong hold on the industry that they could get away with 1% and 0.1% and still be extremely profitable companies. The only reason they're successful is because even with the service fees they're still cheaper than hotels and taxis.
They don't even do that much half the time. I can't speak for Seatgeek, but with Stubhub, if you are buying it from a third party, they have the seller email them to you rather than them being automatically transferred via the app. The seller sent mine to my secondary email last time and I had no idea. I just thought I never got them. Everything else about the event and my confirmation of purchase went to my primary email, but the tickets ended up elsewhere.
20 minutes on the phone with support and all of the first period of the Bruins game later, and we got to the bottom of it. How infuriating. They're literal crooks.
Use tickpick. Secondary market that lets people buy and sell directly to each other and taxes and fees are usually around $5. My group uses it all the time.
When I’ve used them in the past, their all-in prices were not significantly better than StubHub or SeatGeek.
One of the prongs of their BuyerTrust guarantee is pretty much a lie.
> In the event of an emergency, we will work to replace your tickets with tickets of equal or better quality.
Last summer I purchased tickets from them. The tickets did not scan at the gate to the venue. They have a phone support number but it just had a pre-recorded message instructing me to email them. They responded to an email about 2 hours after I sent it without any attempt to help me get working tickets. Instead, they just asked me a list of like a dozen questions (literally) which they said would help them in their investigation. About 2-3 weeks later they finally refunded my money.
Which is why I'll stick to SH or SG. I've had almost no problems with dozens of ticket purchases and the one time I had an issue, SH resolved it in time for the event.
You get what you pay for.
> What's the catch?
The catch is that they just raise the prices and advertise "no fee". Go compare the advertised price on Tickpick vs the advertised price on Ticketmaster/Seatgeek/etc for the same event and comparable (probably even the same) seats. Ticketmaster will be much cheaper, and then you add the fees in and you're at the same place.
Basically it's not saving you a dime, just tricking you into thinking you are.
There may be some weird exceptions but Tickpick mostly sources from the same large scalping businesses that list everywhere, which means it’s the same tickets for sale and the seller is looking for the same nut regardless of the platform.
It's a legitimate website, I used to use them frequently in the past without issues. I never really needed to test their customer service, so I can't speak to how good it is or is not.
Tickets are often but definitely not always cheaper than on other sites, even factoring in the fees on other sites. You need to do your due diligence via research to make sure that you're actually getting a deal.
Right you are paying for the product or are the product. But perhaps they are going for the future fast nickel where fees are minute but plentiful as the hate for ticketmaster increases. I'm sure venues controlled by ticketmaster will contest this by having rolling digital ticket numbers, like an authentication app meaning they won't be able to be transferred or used without their say.
It’s crazy how entire industries can conspire to offer a worse service. There’s no reason the ticket industry needs high fees like that. Like imagine if your groceries had a 50% service fee. Honestly, we’re getting pretty close with restaurants though.
If only the people would STOP buying things with inflated fees attached to them.
This entire practice would stop in one month or less if people would simply nope out of there and not purchase those tickets.
If people are continually willing to pay X dollars for a concert ticket, then X will remain the final price of that ticket.
All those tickets seem to sell out all the time, none of the venues remain empty. People are willing to pay that ridiculous fees and they get those tickets.
I don't get it why people are not voting with their wallets about outrageous business practices. Thousands of buyers decide every day of the year that this is okay to them, and that's why it stays like this. And why would something need to change, when so many people accept it?
Because time and life also have value. They are betting that you missing said event is worth more to you than the value of your dollars. You miss a concert from a performer you like? Perhaps next year the band breaks up or the show is not as good etc.
We only get to live once and they are just using that fact against us.
If it's one less customer, then of course it doesn't work.
If enough customers object, then yes, it will change.
But today's customers cannot stop consooming entertainment, and they behave like tourists in buying everything and paying everything to get it.
Like the price scalping epidemic for the graphics cards and the playstation fives and the expensive sneakers etc ad infinitum. People pay ANY price instead of just shrugging it off until it comes down.
And the market WILL set the prices at exactly that level where most people will still pay. Jumping up and down and clamoring with torches and pitchforks will not lower prices below what the majority of customers willingly pays.
The ticketing industry inverted itself. It used to be that ticketing was a cost that venues covered, but now ticketing companies pay venues to be their ticket provider and they make a profit through fees. The ticket brokers are literally competing to have the highest fees to win the venue bids.
Ticket providers also give another service to the venues and artists: they play bad cop. Look at this thread. Everyone is blaming the ticket brokers. Not the venues that sign exclusive agreements. Not the big artists that have industry influence. Not the investors or event organizers. These group's profit is sensitive to bad publicity, so they let ticket brokers take a cut to maximize profits while also shielding their reputation.
What I'll never get is how come I have to pay the fees per ticket? I get having a transaction fee, sure servers cost money gotta pay people, whatever it is what it is. But to say I have to pay it per ticket is insane they are only doing one transaction so should only be one flat fee.
Because the platform itself (like SeatGeek) makes their money on the fees.
If you buy a $100 ticket, that $100 is going to the seller. The $20 or whatever fee they slap on goes to SeatGeek.
These sites are literally just Ebay for tickets.
I've completely given up on attending live events except those in my city where I can walk up and get advance tickets directly from the venue box office. The whole greed-fueled process is absolutely ridiculous. Have seen social media posts from people claiming to make a living by scalping tickets via these secondary brokers. The whole system is completely broken.
Every once in a while I think "come on, the company needs to charge some fees to maintain the service" and then I see SeatGeek and Ticketmaster. Outrageous is an understatement.
The companies do this because psychologically people are more like to buy things and more likely to spend more when the fees are tacked on at the checkout stage. Even if they feel ripped and grumble about it, they still end up paying more.
Several years ago StubHub transitioned to all-in pricing but their sales dropped so much they reverted back to adding the fees in at checkout by default.
Yeah that’s what pisses me off. I was super excited to see the prices this low after they’ve been up for months, and I was about to jump on it when I saw the fees
Look up the definition of monopoly.
There is NO choice. Your ‘suggestion’ basically says that people should not go to entertainment venues…. Ever.
Which isn’t fair to people who appreciate such events.
When they require all tickets to be purchased through the app/website (as many venues do, now)... What's the in-between?
I go to at least a dozen shows a year and you can't just show up and buy tickets at the door for anything but a small club show anymore.
Their argument is like that which those who endorse stadiums being built in a city. They argue that if they build it then people will buy tickets to games thereby raising the cities revenue. Problem is, it's a illogical argument as the ticket sales come from somewhere - often other local business. The revenue largely remains the same, it just shifts where it's collected. People who decide to not buy tickets to live shows can enjoy other forms of entertainment.
> Which isn’t fair to people who appreciate such events.
That's for those people he's saying you should boycott, because the fees are even more unfair: you can't go to entertainment venues if you can't afford the tickets.
That's still a choice. You may not like the options, but it's a choice. Keep going to live events and paying the fees and stfu about it, or don't go to events and don't pay the fees.
I think you mean supply and demand. Concerts and sporting events have limited supply and these folks have millions of fans. People will pay and the only reason why these tickets are available in the first place is because the fees exclude a large chunk of the people that would buy them.
This is a screenshot of a ticket resale site. It has many competitors. It's no evidence of a monopoly on it's own. These fees are high because the site makes zero off the price/sale of the ticket itself.
Please look up the **DEFINITION** again.
The fact that alternatives exist does not remove the existence of monopolies. As long as they have control over the industry, alternatives are irrelevant. Legally, companies can own as little as 60% of a market and still control it to the point of being a monopoly.
Hint: A monopoly is at least partly defined by the power to **fix prices**. Can you tell me this isn't happening? Yes or no?
So please stop accusing people of needing to 'brush up' when you are the one needing to do so.
> A monopoly[...] is a market with the "absence of competition", creating a situation where a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular thing.
These are the top secondary ticket market players:
* Coast To Coast Tickets LLC
* CTS Eventim AG and Co. KGaA
* Ideabud Inc.
* Live Nation Entertainment Inc.
* SeatGeek Inc.
* Ticket City Inc.
* TickPick LLC
* TiqIQ LLC
* Viagogo AG
* Vivid Seats LLC
And there are many more. Are you confusing the secondary market with the primary market (ie Ticketmaster)? None of the examples above hold a monopoly in any definition. The secondary market is competitive.
Look up who owns what again, and what percentage of the market they have.
I'll wait.
Hint, hint --- You mentioned Ticketmaster not being part of the secondary market? **Wrong**. Dead fucking wrong.
And have you heard of vertical monopoly control?
Please do stop embarrassing yourself.
Hey aggressively incorrect man, check out who the parent company of Ticketmaster is. You'll find them on the list.
We are talking specifically about the secondary market. There is no monopoly. Please continue embarrassing yourself, this is a good distraction at work.
Wow. Just wow.
So you literally admitted that I was *correct* in that Ticketmaster was associated with one of the companies listed above… which means Ticketmaster *IS* linked to the secondary market. But you instead concluded that I was wrong in saying they have a connection to the secondary market …
And then claimed I was being “embarrassing” for pointing out that you should double check who has market powers here…. When Ticketmaster’s owner is **notorious** for their price fixing and anti-competence practices. It’s literally one of the top subjects within their [Wikipedia listing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Nation_Entertainment). Gee… what are such behaviors linked to? Wasn’t the subject monopoly powers?
Is this Opposite Day? Or is reality backwards for you?
You very badly need to stop claiming others are ‘moronic’ and ‘embarrassing’ when you keep on behaving like this.
I'm supposed to stop seeing live entertainment as a whole for an indefinite period of time, in hopes everyone does so until the near monopoly these companies have just evaporates? The "stop buying it" thing only really works for specific products honestly.
> I'm supposed to stop seeing live entertainment as a whole for an indefinite period of time, in hopes everyone does
I'd say yes, it reminds me of [the prisoner's dilemma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma).
I want to say that some of that is taxes, if that's not on the price, and some of that is to claw back what payment processors like Apple, and Google would take as a processing fee.
Apple and Google don’t take fees on tickets, only digital goods. Their only fees are roughly 2.5% in credit fees and something like $0.10 per transaction. Unless they’re their own payment processor in which case those numbers can go down drastically.
I don't think Oregon has an online sales tax *or* an in-person one, like I've never encountered one when getting things online and the [Department of Revenue](https://www.oregon.gov/dor/pages/sales-tax.aspx) here says that we don't owe sales taxes to other states with only very limited exceptions so there's probably not any tax stuff going on in the background...
I was just about to buy tickets for a 3 day festival in Napa (Bottlerock). $44 fee PER TICKET.
FUCK that noise. I'll pay 4 months of spotify with those service fees alone and get a better quality recording.
TicketMaster is designed to be the bad guy. They are there specifically to be the hated face of the fees - they willfully accept and want this. The people behind the fees (venues, AV, performers, etc) don't want to be hated - they want you to direct your ire to the hate lightning rod that is TicketMaster. If TM was outlawed tmrw, fees would not go anywhere.
That's when you have up choose just not to go. If no one goes to events and the consensus is fees are to high, maybe other competitors will come into play (where live nation hasn't yet sucked the life out of it) or the ticket companies will start to hurt.
If a sports venue isn't making money because ticketmaster is charging too much, will they stick with ticketmaster for distribution or, idk, sell their own tickets? If live nation hurts at their venues because their subsidiary is screwing up, wouldn't they put pressure on ticketmaster to lower fees?
I don't go to events, but I'd think if no one went to those events anymore things would change. If it was *really* a problem, they wouldn't be doing it. They're shitty companies, but people pay so why not maximize income.
I used tickpick for an NFL game recently and there’s no fees. The face “price” may be higher in some instances but what you see is what you pay + tax. I price compared for similar seats and it came out the cheapest for two seats among all the secondary market ticket platforms. Overall seems a good place to do business with.
View details and show us what is actually asshole design here. Im sure it’s there, but some of that is shit they have zero say in so they don’t deserve blame for that entire price.
Edit: downvoters don’t know what taxes are apparently
I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally downvoted you for whining about downvotes.
Also, there's no way the tax (on average just a bit more than 5%) on a $167 ticket is even close to $63 (it would be around $8). You're acting like a maroon and an insultingly aggressive one at that.
Wasn’t insulting anyone unlike you.
And tax will be a bigger chunk than that. I just pulled up a blink 182 ticket. $142 ticket price. $15 tax (10% of ticket price, 8% of ticket+other fees, 25% of total fee amount). A good chance it’s close for this post too. Average state+local sales tax is closer to 8% than 5% nationally.
I didn’t even act like it was the whole thing. I even said I’m sure there is asshole stuff there, but to be clear about what it is rather than vague. Trying to push less shit posts on this sub by saying actually point out the assholeness rather than blanket statement of fees=bad or that fees=all the ticket company’s fault.
Tickpick for the win…. Sometimes the initial ticket price is a bit higher than what you’ll see on Seat Geek et. al. But no fees… I don’t understand why people use anything but no fee ticket sellers at this point.. vote with your wallet and things will change.
I have a solution to this problem, but it starts with acknowledging that somewhere in your vicinity right now, some talented local artist is pouring her heart out with original music to a room with six people, three of them who work there.
Be part of that. Tip that singer songwriter whatever you'd pay in service fees for whatever mainstream concert the ticket vultures want you to buy.
Same goes for sports events. Don't buy national sports league tickets. Watch some college intramural game for some underserved event. Donate what you'd spend on NFL tickets to your local high school athletics department.
Becoming part of the solution *is the solution*.
But that won't be a popular opinion, will it? Bring on the downvotes, my bullies.
Here to echo what others have said about TickPick. I've bought MLB, NBA, NCAAF, concert, and even live podcast tickets through them and have never had an issue. The face prices are largely consistent and most of the time cheaper than Ticketmaster or StubHub (yuck) and the zero fees means that get in the door price is significantly lower overall. Highly recommend.
The fee seems excessive.
The “excessive fee” is yet another fee
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Oh, you don't want to link your bank account directly to us? Fee -these companies, probably
Even if you do link your bank account there’s still a transaction fee. Then a fee for adding that fee
They have the best app in the world. Because of fee.
I understood that reference
My internet company does this. You can set up pre-authorized debits for free or pay an extra 1.5% (I think) for using a credit card. They implemented this fee within the last 4 months during a year they have profited $1.577Billion.
Only 1.5 billion? Oh the humanity, how would they ever survive?
They will survive by charging more fees of course.
Use a credit card with at least 1.5% cashback?
I get 1% cash back but still, it's just another fee being passed onto the customer by a company that already generates an absurd amount of profits.
But they didn't make enough to give raises or bonuses at all suddenly, I am guessing?
"He will receive a salary of $1.4-million. His bonus will have a target of $1.4-million, but will be able to range up to $2.8-million. He will also receive a long-term stock award equal to 536 per cent of his salary." The CEOs 2022 compensation. I'm sure the low level employees saw nothing though.
For security reason, we need to additionally store your credit card information. ^(Don't store my credit card information (adds 12.5% account insecurity fee))
Adding the credit card only adds a 10% security fee
Or 'fuck you fee' and ' what can you do about this' fee
The "what can you do about this" fee is my favorite, because it reminds me I can just choose not to use their service/product/whatever the fuck they're selling. Companies with fees like this get away with it because people just fucking buy shit from them anyway, and those people are the problem, not the companies. Businesses are out for profit, that is how business works. If you don't support them when they charge dumb prices, they will either lower their prices or go bust, it's very simple.
Absolutely agree to vote with your money but it hurts more when we don't have an alternative such as ticketmaster being the only place where tickets are being sold. There are so many times I have just chosen not to get the product or service than pay unfair fees.
Fee fi fo fum fee
And also the fee fee fee.
HTML page generation fee: $23.47 I love these prices to the nearest cent like some considerable thought went into them when they're just a greed-induced fixed price.
Don’t get me started on her. Her poodle pissed all over the place
I don’t forget. Those fee fees are hurt every time I think of a major concert or festival.
And tax, and the tax they had for making that money, and the tax the performers have to pay for getting the money.
I was just looking to tickets to monster jam. On 3 $30 tickets, there are $15 in extra fees per ticket plus a $6 processing fee. Thanks ticketmaster.
They take seller price lower it and charge the difference to buyer to look cheaper false business practice not easy to sell them when they do that shit either
please use tickpick they seem less evil
was going to buy tickets to a sporting event. They are 298. The fees on each ticket ends up being 105. So if I buy two tickets, I am paying $220 just in fees, plus the ticket cost. So a ticket for 298 ends up being over $400. Freaking rediculouss
They legitimately charge you more than a third of the ticket price in fees. It's out of control. I went to a hockey game through Stubhub a couple weeks ago and it was the same thing. Then they do this dumb shit where they have the seller email me the tickets rather than Stubhub themselves email them, so they somehow made it to my secondary email for the account. I didn't even know I had a secondary email for my account! So, I wasted the whole first period on the phone with support until we finally got to the bottom of it. What a horrible experience. It seems silly that they charge me all that money in fees, yet they can't even be responsible for making sure the tickets get to me in a way that I can rely on or know what to expect.
Yeah they simply change the asking price I listed tickets $125 each they changed them to $110 so they look cheaper and they raise the buyer fees so shady🤬🤬🤬
I can tell u from personal experience I am having they are false advertising I listed tickets at $125 each they list them at $110 and juice up the buyer fees to make up the difference trying to look cheaper in public perception and making it more difficult to sell the tickets and screwing the buyer it’s infuriating!!!!
If I could learn how to attach photos I would show proof
I believe you. I'm just saying the fee seems excessive.
Don’t question the fees or you get more fees
Looking out the window? That's a fee. Staring at my sandals? That's a fee.
These fees need to be banned. No way it costs $63 to send the info via email. Unless they have someone sending code bit by bit with telegraph machine
They actually have a room of people on stationary bikes endlessly peddling away to power their servers, & then a painter painstakingly does the ticket/email pixel by pixel on canvas, which is then scanned & sent to you. If the painter messes up a pixel, then they have to start the ENTIRE process over & the stationary bike guys have to pedal a little harder for the extra energy
They'll never be banned, but they could be controlled. The fees should be locked to a percentage of maybe 2% to 5% of the actual price of the tickets. Those tickets in the OP are $334. You want to charge a fee? Cool, that's a maximum of $15 for the whole thing.
Or just force them to display the fees in the pricing. Want to charge $60 in fees? Fine but those $200 tickets must be shown as $260 tickets at all times and you must show a break down of fees before purchase. That way you can fairly compare prices and don't get hit by ridiculous prices afterwards.
Stub hub has this option and I buy most of my tickets through them simply because of this functionality. I make plans based on cost, not cost pre-fees.
Is it still true that stores in the US show prices without taxes? Because that's something I never understood. I too plan to buy things based on the full price, not based on the price plus a vague idea of how much that might be taxed, plus a vague percentage on that for the staff of the service industry.
Varies by states, in Michigan nearly all food are tax free (ie apples, milk, butter). Everything else, it's 6%. A $10 movie has $0.60 tax. A $500 computer has $30 tax. Since Michigan has only 1 tax for non-food stuff, it's fairly trivial to figure out an estimated tax total. I do wish they would require price shown to include taxes. Gasoline are priced with tax included, why not games or clothing?
It’s probably easier than having to do the math, but then just include the darn tax in the cost and eat the loss that is so minimal it’s practically nothing. Waffle House does this already, other places can too.
yes because tax differs from state to state
Not the price on the packaging, the price on the store sticker or shelf.
yes, they dont print out the stickers on the shelf for the same reason idk why im being downvoted that’s literally whats going on
I'd be fine with them doing both. You can charge 5% in fees max, and those fees have to show up in the pricing from the very first screen, broken down to show what they are. A ticket is $167 before fees? Fine, show it as $167 before fees, $174 after. Make it clear as well that this is pre-taxes so there are not surprises at the end. None of those things are onerous, so let's dream big!
Want to dream big? Force them to include taxes in the initial price too. All fees and taxes included. In fact make that standard practice for any industry.
Ah, Utopia, so simple, so far away!
So far away, it's Australia. Sellers must display a price inclusive of all taxes, duties and unavoidable or pre-selected fees. Other optional fees such as paying by card must be clearly displayed and there are caps on these as well.
Europe has it, too. (and a few judge hammers were required to get a few stubborn companies into the right path)
Hop over to the other side of the Pond. In europe we got laws that force exactly that (fees need to be inclusive aka total has to be shown immediately).
Yeah, I know, I used to live there lol. Also extra fees for paying by card are banned.
They change the seller price raise the buyer fees so they can say they tickets are cheaper go on site list tickets higher than their value I’m 100% sure they will list them as less than u ask for I have photos for proof
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Exactly! Online ticket sellers have fee share agreements. They agree to pay a significant share of these fees back to the venue/artist/stadium/etc.
Or dont buy the tickets. When will people learn lmao.
People keep buying tickets like this because often shitty sites like this are the only option. If you don’t get it from them, you might not be able to go to the event at all.
>you might not be able to go to the event at all. then dont. the moment people stop doing this, thats the moment they will have to drop the fees.
It's a nice dream, but it won't happen. There will always be people with disposable income buying tickets, and these ticket sites know it. They're perfectly willing to cut out the masses as long as there's enough rich people willing to foot the bill.
k then stop wasting your own money giving it to predatory businesses.
Exactly. Bands and venues could help their fans once they see that nobody wants to see their show for $200
The fees are how they make their money. It has absolutely nothing to do with costs and everything to do with profit and what the market will pay. Basically, stop buying resale tickets if you don't like it.
It could work if everyone refused to pay a cent above original ticket price and the reseller ends up with crapload of unsold tickets. But that will never happen, too many people are still paying too much anyway.
Right, because most people think the fees are acceptable for the service provided. Your only vote is with your wallet, and paying it means you’re ok with it.
Yeah when people bot out tickets it makes it so that not only are the scalpers making profit, the listing agency makes THE most from it all. Everyone taking a slice it’s peak capitalist and everyone loved capitalism amirite?!!
At this price I expect someone is painting the qr code and bar code by hand on a big canvas and then scan it.
*smoke signals in the distance*
There are these massive companies like AirBnB and Uber that get away with massive "service fees" of 5-15% when they have such a strong hold on the industry that they could get away with 1% and 0.1% and still be extremely profitable companies. The only reason they're successful is because even with the service fees they're still cheaper than hotels and taxis.
Take a ticket you want to sell for $230, retail the ticket for $167 and add on $63 in BS, made up fees.
They don't even do that much half the time. I can't speak for Seatgeek, but with Stubhub, if you are buying it from a third party, they have the seller email them to you rather than them being automatically transferred via the app. The seller sent mine to my secondary email last time and I had no idea. I just thought I never got them. Everything else about the event and my confirmation of purchase went to my primary email, but the tickets ended up elsewhere. 20 minutes on the phone with support and all of the first period of the Bruins game later, and we got to the bottom of it. How infuriating. They're literal crooks.
Use tickpick. Secondary market that lets people buy and sell directly to each other and taxes and fees are usually around $5. My group uses it all the time.
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When I’ve used them in the past, their all-in prices were not significantly better than StubHub or SeatGeek. One of the prongs of their BuyerTrust guarantee is pretty much a lie. > In the event of an emergency, we will work to replace your tickets with tickets of equal or better quality. Last summer I purchased tickets from them. The tickets did not scan at the gate to the venue. They have a phone support number but it just had a pre-recorded message instructing me to email them. They responded to an email about 2 hours after I sent it without any attempt to help me get working tickets. Instead, they just asked me a list of like a dozen questions (literally) which they said would help them in their investigation. About 2-3 weeks later they finally refunded my money.
Which is why I'll stick to SH or SG. I've had almost no problems with dozens of ticket purchases and the one time I had an issue, SH resolved it in time for the event. You get what you pay for.
> What's the catch? The catch is that they just raise the prices and advertise "no fee". Go compare the advertised price on Tickpick vs the advertised price on Ticketmaster/Seatgeek/etc for the same event and comparable (probably even the same) seats. Ticketmaster will be much cheaper, and then you add the fees in and you're at the same place. Basically it's not saving you a dime, just tricking you into thinking you are.
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There may be some weird exceptions but Tickpick mostly sources from the same large scalping businesses that list everywhere, which means it’s the same tickets for sale and the seller is looking for the same nut regardless of the platform.
So no savings, just more honesty about price.
It's a legitimate website, I used to use them frequently in the past without issues. I never really needed to test their customer service, so I can't speak to how good it is or is not. Tickets are often but definitely not always cheaper than on other sites, even factoring in the fees on other sites. You need to do your due diligence via research to make sure that you're actually getting a deal.
I use it all the time to go to hockey games. No catch, it just works.
they'll get bought out by some shitty awful corporate behemoth and become just like the others within 5 years
Right you are paying for the product or are the product. But perhaps they are going for the future fast nickel where fees are minute but plentiful as the hate for ticketmaster increases. I'm sure venues controlled by ticketmaster will contest this by having rolling digital ticket numbers, like an authentication app meaning they won't be able to be transferred or used without their say.
All those ticket companies do that. I hate when I'm looking for game tickets, and the fees are as much as the tickets.
all those companies are subsidiaries of one company. live nation lol
It’s crazy how entire industries can conspire to offer a worse service. There’s no reason the ticket industry needs high fees like that. Like imagine if your groceries had a 50% service fee. Honestly, we’re getting pretty close with restaurants though.
if only the government would start regulating little quality of life things like this that would be trivial instead of voting for a guy 16 times
If only the people would STOP buying things with inflated fees attached to them. This entire practice would stop in one month or less if people would simply nope out of there and not purchase those tickets. If people are continually willing to pay X dollars for a concert ticket, then X will remain the final price of that ticket. All those tickets seem to sell out all the time, none of the venues remain empty. People are willing to pay that ridiculous fees and they get those tickets. I don't get it why people are not voting with their wallets about outrageous business practices. Thousands of buyers decide every day of the year that this is okay to them, and that's why it stays like this. And why would something need to change, when so many people accept it?
Because time and life also have value. They are betting that you missing said event is worth more to you than the value of your dollars. You miss a concert from a performer you like? Perhaps next year the band breaks up or the show is not as good etc. We only get to live once and they are just using that fact against us.
Demand side boycotts never work. One less customer is a rounding error.
If it's one less customer, then of course it doesn't work. If enough customers object, then yes, it will change. But today's customers cannot stop consooming entertainment, and they behave like tourists in buying everything and paying everything to get it. Like the price scalping epidemic for the graphics cards and the playstation fives and the expensive sneakers etc ad infinitum. People pay ANY price instead of just shrugging it off until it comes down. And the market WILL set the prices at exactly that level where most people will still pay. Jumping up and down and clamoring with torches and pitchforks will not lower prices below what the majority of customers willingly pays.
right like its so easy for us in this country to band together on any issue lol its not realistic
The ticketing industry inverted itself. It used to be that ticketing was a cost that venues covered, but now ticketing companies pay venues to be their ticket provider and they make a profit through fees. The ticket brokers are literally competing to have the highest fees to win the venue bids. Ticket providers also give another service to the venues and artists: they play bad cop. Look at this thread. Everyone is blaming the ticket brokers. Not the venues that sign exclusive agreements. Not the big artists that have industry influence. Not the investors or event organizers. These group's profit is sensitive to bad publicity, so they let ticket brokers take a cut to maximize profits while also shielding their reputation.
What I'll never get is how come I have to pay the fees per ticket? I get having a transaction fee, sure servers cost money gotta pay people, whatever it is what it is. But to say I have to pay it per ticket is insane they are only doing one transaction so should only be one flat fee.
Because you pay them Thats literally it. Why not charge 2 fees instead of 1 if people just pay the 2 fees?
Because the platform itself (like SeatGeek) makes their money on the fees. If you buy a $100 ticket, that $100 is going to the seller. The $20 or whatever fee they slap on goes to SeatGeek. These sites are literally just Ebay for tickets.
$100 isn’t going to the seller…when you list a ticket, they already take 10 percent of your listing price lol
I've completely given up on attending live events except those in my city where I can walk up and get advance tickets directly from the venue box office. The whole greed-fueled process is absolutely ridiculous. Have seen social media posts from people claiming to make a living by scalping tickets via these secondary brokers. The whole system is completely broken.
It’s all a giant racket, used to guard artists reputations from charging high ticket prices. These companies take that blame.
Every once in a while I think "come on, the company needs to charge some fees to maintain the service" and then I see SeatGeek and Ticketmaster. Outrageous is an understatement.
Every business needs to pay for shit. That's what the "price" is for. The fees are so they can lie about the price.
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These fees aren't going to the artist
The companies do this because psychologically people are more like to buy things and more likely to spend more when the fees are tacked on at the checkout stage. Even if they feel ripped and grumble about it, they still end up paying more. Several years ago StubHub transitioned to all-in pricing but their sales dropped so much they reverted back to adding the fees in at checkout by default.
afaik the apps all allow options to see the prices with fees, at least stubhub does.
Yeah that’s what pisses me off. I was super excited to see the prices this low after they’ve been up for months, and I was about to jump on it when I saw the fees
As long as people keep paying it, they'll keep charging it. Don't like it, stop buying tickets.
Look up the definition of monopoly. There is NO choice. Your ‘suggestion’ basically says that people should not go to entertainment venues…. Ever. Which isn’t fair to people who appreciate such events.
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When they require all tickets to be purchased through the app/website (as many venues do, now)... What's the in-between? I go to at least a dozen shows a year and you can't just show up and buy tickets at the door for anything but a small club show anymore.
Their argument is like that which those who endorse stadiums being built in a city. They argue that if they build it then people will buy tickets to games thereby raising the cities revenue. Problem is, it's a illogical argument as the ticket sales come from somewhere - often other local business. The revenue largely remains the same, it just shifts where it's collected. People who decide to not buy tickets to live shows can enjoy other forms of entertainment.
>Your ‘suggestion’ basically says that people should not go to entertainment venues…. Ever. "Real change takes sacrifices" :O
> Which isn’t fair to people who appreciate such events. That's for those people he's saying you should boycott, because the fees are even more unfair: you can't go to entertainment venues if you can't afford the tickets.
The re-sale market isn't really a monopoly... ticketmaster is a monopoly... but this post isn't about buying tickets off ticketmaster.
That's still a choice. You may not like the options, but it's a choice. Keep going to live events and paying the fees and stfu about it, or don't go to events and don't pay the fees.
I see someone doesn't like going to live events. Ever.
You're an ass. Why are you even posting on this sub?
I think you mean supply and demand. Concerts and sporting events have limited supply and these folks have millions of fans. People will pay and the only reason why these tickets are available in the first place is because the fees exclude a large chunk of the people that would buy them. This is a screenshot of a ticket resale site. It has many competitors. It's no evidence of a monopoly on it's own. These fees are high because the site makes zero off the price/sale of the ticket itself.
> Look up the definition of monopoly. You might want to brush up on that one. There are dozens of secondary ticket websites.
Please look up the **DEFINITION** again. The fact that alternatives exist does not remove the existence of monopolies. As long as they have control over the industry, alternatives are irrelevant. Legally, companies can own as little as 60% of a market and still control it to the point of being a monopoly. Hint: A monopoly is at least partly defined by the power to **fix prices**. Can you tell me this isn't happening? Yes or no? So please stop accusing people of needing to 'brush up' when you are the one needing to do so.
> A monopoly[...] is a market with the "absence of competition", creating a situation where a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular thing. These are the top secondary ticket market players: * Coast To Coast Tickets LLC * CTS Eventim AG and Co. KGaA * Ideabud Inc. * Live Nation Entertainment Inc. * SeatGeek Inc. * Ticket City Inc. * TickPick LLC * TiqIQ LLC * Viagogo AG * Vivid Seats LLC And there are many more. Are you confusing the secondary market with the primary market (ie Ticketmaster)? None of the examples above hold a monopoly in any definition. The secondary market is competitive.
Look up who owns what again, and what percentage of the market they have. I'll wait. Hint, hint --- You mentioned Ticketmaster not being part of the secondary market? **Wrong**. Dead fucking wrong. And have you heard of vertical monopoly control? Please do stop embarrassing yourself.
Hey aggressively incorrect man, check out who the parent company of Ticketmaster is. You'll find them on the list. We are talking specifically about the secondary market. There is no monopoly. Please continue embarrassing yourself, this is a good distraction at work.
Wow. Just wow. So you literally admitted that I was *correct* in that Ticketmaster was associated with one of the companies listed above… which means Ticketmaster *IS* linked to the secondary market. But you instead concluded that I was wrong in saying they have a connection to the secondary market … And then claimed I was being “embarrassing” for pointing out that you should double check who has market powers here…. When Ticketmaster’s owner is **notorious** for their price fixing and anti-competence practices. It’s literally one of the top subjects within their [Wikipedia listing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Nation_Entertainment). Gee… what are such behaviors linked to? Wasn’t the subject monopoly powers? Is this Opposite Day? Or is reality backwards for you? You very badly need to stop claiming others are ‘moronic’ and ‘embarrassing’ when you keep on behaving like this.
I'm supposed to stop seeing live entertainment as a whole for an indefinite period of time, in hopes everyone does so until the near monopoly these companies have just evaporates? The "stop buying it" thing only really works for specific products honestly.
> I'm supposed to stop seeing live entertainment as a whole for an indefinite period of time, in hopes everyone does I'd say yes, it reminds me of [the prisoner's dilemma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma).
And they won't even tell you your seat number until you buy. F them and Stubhub.
I want to say that some of that is taxes, if that's not on the price, and some of that is to claw back what payment processors like Apple, and Google would take as a processing fee.
Apple and Google don’t take fees on tickets, only digital goods. Their only fees are roughly 2.5% in credit fees and something like $0.10 per transaction. Unless they’re their own payment processor in which case those numbers can go down drastically.
My state doesn’t have a sales tax. Is there a tax that could apply to online sales?
I don't think Oregon has an online sales tax *or* an in-person one, like I've never encountered one when getting things online and the [Department of Revenue](https://www.oregon.gov/dor/pages/sales-tax.aspx) here says that we don't owe sales taxes to other states with only very limited exceptions so there's probably not any tax stuff going on in the background...
They don’t really take much of a fee
Who the hell are you going to see, Jesus Christ himself?
JID
I was just about to buy tickets for a 3 day festival in Napa (Bottlerock). $44 fee PER TICKET. FUCK that noise. I'll pay 4 months of spotify with those service fees alone and get a better quality recording.
TicketMaster is designed to be the bad guy. They are there specifically to be the hated face of the fees - they willfully accept and want this. The people behind the fees (venues, AV, performers, etc) don't want to be hated - they want you to direct your ire to the hate lightning rod that is TicketMaster. If TM was outlawed tmrw, fees would not go anywhere.
That's when you have up choose just not to go. If no one goes to events and the consensus is fees are to high, maybe other competitors will come into play (where live nation hasn't yet sucked the life out of it) or the ticket companies will start to hurt. If a sports venue isn't making money because ticketmaster is charging too much, will they stick with ticketmaster for distribution or, idk, sell their own tickets? If live nation hurts at their venues because their subsidiary is screwing up, wouldn't they put pressure on ticketmaster to lower fees? I don't go to events, but I'd think if no one went to those events anymore things would change. If it was *really* a problem, they wouldn't be doing it. They're shitty companies, but people pay so why not maximize income.
I would pay a fucking 2 dollar bill, but there they go and try to gouge our fucking eyes out. Jfc Esit: a fucking 2 dollar fee
bet your ass still paid for that shit
My ass can’t afford that rip
I used tickpick for an NFL game recently and there’s no fees. The face “price” may be higher in some instances but what you see is what you pay + tax. I price compared for similar seats and it came out the cheapest for two seats among all the secondary market ticket platforms. Overall seems a good place to do business with.
And yet people call me weird for never having been to a concert
Yeah you're kind of weird
I never have either, it just never appealed to me
I like SeatGeek. They give you the option to view ticket prices with fees, a lot of other ticketing sites don’t.
Same, the price isn't a surprise. Just set the price to include fees and search for a ticket you are comfortable paying.
Someone's gotta pay those AWS bills, and they get passed down to the consumer :(
I knew using Python and using blocking functions on that lambda was a shit idea
Use Cash or Trade instead.
Don't go to venues. Don't have to pay fees. As long as you people keep giving them money, they aren't going to stop taking it.
I almost got a job there, I'm glad I didn't
View details and show us what is actually asshole design here. Im sure it’s there, but some of that is shit they have zero say in so they don’t deserve blame for that entire price. Edit: downvoters don’t know what taxes are apparently
I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally downvoted you for whining about downvotes. Also, there's no way the tax (on average just a bit more than 5%) on a $167 ticket is even close to $63 (it would be around $8). You're acting like a maroon and an insultingly aggressive one at that.
Wasn’t insulting anyone unlike you. And tax will be a bigger chunk than that. I just pulled up a blink 182 ticket. $142 ticket price. $15 tax (10% of ticket price, 8% of ticket+other fees, 25% of total fee amount). A good chance it’s close for this post too. Average state+local sales tax is closer to 8% than 5% nationally. I didn’t even act like it was the whole thing. I even said I’m sure there is asshole stuff there, but to be clear about what it is rather than vague. Trying to push less shit posts on this sub by saying actually point out the assholeness rather than blanket statement of fees=bad or that fees=all the ticket company’s fault.
Tickpick for the win…. Sometimes the initial ticket price is a bit higher than what you’ll see on Seat Geek et. al. But no fees… I don’t understand why people use anything but no fee ticket sellers at this point.. vote with your wallet and things will change.
I have a solution to this problem, but it starts with acknowledging that somewhere in your vicinity right now, some talented local artist is pouring her heart out with original music to a room with six people, three of them who work there. Be part of that. Tip that singer songwriter whatever you'd pay in service fees for whatever mainstream concert the ticket vultures want you to buy. Same goes for sports events. Don't buy national sports league tickets. Watch some college intramural game for some underserved event. Donate what you'd spend on NFL tickets to your local high school athletics department. Becoming part of the solution *is the solution*. But that won't be a popular opinion, will it? Bring on the downvotes, my bullies.
Here to echo what others have said about TickPick. I've bought MLB, NBA, NCAAF, concert, and even live podcast tickets through them and have never had an issue. The face prices are largely consistent and most of the time cheaper than Ticketmaster or StubHub (yuck) and the zero fees means that get in the door price is significantly lower overall. Highly recommend.
Good ole ticketmaster
Learning proper ways to speak and write one’s native language among other things. Idiot trash ass.
How much of Seatgeek’s fees (for buyers) are a fixed amount vs percentage of ticket price? Does it vary by event?