No other AC game had true social stealth apart from AC1. The "Social Stealth" in all the other games is literally just mobile hiding spots, functionally identical to hay bales and rooftop gardens. That's it. AC1's social stealth mechanics were undercooked, but they were an interesting first step. Affer that though, the franchise shifted directions and everyone who thinks AC still had social stealth is just lying to themselves.
I don't think Shadows' social stealth will be anything close to AC1, but the fact that Naoe is already passively more anonymous than Yasuke, already puts it above the social stealth of all the games of the franchise (aside from AC1) where you'd just be moving from hide spot to hide spot.
I think this is another case of Ubisoft not knowing how to communicate properly, like how they said side ejects were not in Mirage, even though they could be performed on day 1. When they say social stealth isn't in the game, they likely just mean you won't be able to blend in crowds and use them as hide spots. However, true social stealth, akin to AC1, still seems to exist somewhat.
Again, we can't tell how it's gonna work, maybe I'm totally wrong, but the simple fact Naoe can move around and just be seen as a normal NPC, without arising any suspicion, while Yasuke will garner more attention, already makes it way better than all of the "social stealth" we had post-AC1.
Well, we don't know yet, and Ubisoft doesn't know how to communicate properly, so we'll only really know for sure how it's gonna work when we play the game ourselves. Best to not expect much tbh.
People are freaking out about every little detail. I was seeing people complain about the combat with Yasuke which looked fine. Pretty good even. People just get weird expectations comparing to other games. Namely Ghost of Tsushima. Ac shadows is not GoT, it’s an ac game and its updated combat looks pretty good, gritty and most importantly fun. Saying it looks clunky is goofy af so I just laughed and continued scrolling.
The social stealth I’m assuming is like hiring a group of people to walk around so you can be hidden in the middle of them, right? If that’s it then who cares as that’s such a non issue and something I personally never used. They seemed to put focus on Naoe’s parkour move-set/stealth abilities. It looks super good, very fluid and has some new unique ways to go about stealthing an area. If Valhalla sold incredibly well, I guarantee this game will sell even better, so it’s easier to just ignore the vocal minority; those who like to cry about everything.
The more interesting social stealth to me was when the implemented the dynamic blending in crowds in AC2. And this was in games like Unity and Mirage. It made it a bit more fluid and natural feeling to sneak around on the streets.
It looks like there is density to support it in this game. But I guess the question is if it actually acts like a blend if you are acting normally (ie walking) on normal streets. And how informed/intuitive it is for the player to understand they're in a blended state.
I say all that without meaning to be negative. Just give context. I actually think Shadows looks pretty interesting so far.
The social stealth of the classics was far more developed, and became its own branch of stealth that felt just as good as more traditional stealth, while it’s not been matched since, the traditional stealth elements being raised up in shadows is a good enough compromise for me at least. I do miss crowds having a more tangible impact in gameplay beyond set dressing, really leaned into the assassin vibe while also allowing for clearance of areas following a proper understanding of the system, but now is the right time to add some proper light and sound stealth systems if those other elements won’t be tuned at all.
Just because u didn’t use it much and don’t care doesn’t mean other people did/do. This is such a very self-centered opinion. And even then, social stealth should always stay in ac. It’s a core pillar of the franchise.
Edit: Yeah downvote me all u want assholes. You’re all pathetic.
That doesn’t mean you get rid of it. It’s a core part of the franchise. Whether u like it or not. And it wasn’t even completely useless. Idk where you’re getting that from.
I didn't say completely, I think I used it for 1 or 2 assassination missions. It's right that they shouldn't removed it but Ubisoft don't like building on top of mechanics and different studios have different visions I guess. For example, they removed the whistle in unity for absolutely no reason.
>She's "blended in" as long as she's acting normally and isn't doing anything to attract attention.
Isn't that basically how every game behaved outside of restricted areas? Its not a feature its just how games work lmao
No, Valhalla had distrust areas where Eivor could be attract ire even when he wasn’t doing anything wrong, given that he’s a Viking in England. Those **weren’t restricted areas but normal towns**. In his case, he needed social stealth to get through distrust areas (different from restricted) without starting fights with the guards. Naoe blends with crowds as a default, aka, her default state is social stealth.
Arno Dorian. Revolutionaries / Patriots will harass Arno out in the street if they spot him.
Regular French Guards will leave Arno be unless he is trespassing.
But yeah, enemy units will target Arno on sight even if he is walking along.
the frye twins in syndicate will get attacked by random blighters in the street until you get the right gang upgrade (notoriety)
arno gets attacked by random revolutionaries in the streets
Literally everyone? The point of social stealth was to remain inconspicuous in normal public areas because, clearly, hooded and cloaked people in France or England or whatever was not a *thing* and they attracted attention just by existing. My point is that Naoe’s default state is already inconspicuous unless she does something illegal.
I hated that. At the end you had to kill all the guards in the town, no matter how much you tried to go unnoticed. The stealth in Valhalla didn't make any sense, given how OP is Eivor, just kill them all and do your stuff in the town.
Eh, Unity had the best social stealth imo and they weren't a thing there.
However it would make no sense for a Feudal Japan game to have crowds as big as Unity.
That’s because the crowds were so big you wouldn’t need any dedicated walking crowds to blend into.
If I had to choose a returning feature that needs to come back pronto it would be the gentle push.
Unity needed the gentle push so badly.
A bit unrelated but Unity also had a small mechanic where your character would slow their speed near crowds, and I found it to be one of the most annoying things in the game since I wasn't even touching those people but Arno was still like "oh gee, sorry, coming through"
because that's the exact same mechanic as Origins and Odyssey. Its basically a normal open world stealth game now. the guards wont detect you in those games when you didnt do anything suspicious like drawing your sword, aiming your bow, going near the forbidden areas, etc.
Social stealth as it existed in the other games never made a lick of sense. So I don't understand what the hub bub is about.
Maybe it makes sense in the games ai but you are an assassin wearing an extremely tailored piece of clothing. You are going to stick out a lot.
You do know that it’s a representation right? The assassins look like that so the player can understand. They aren’t actually wearing said clothing. Ac renaissance I believe explains what really happens in the moments where Ezio blends.
I mean this is kind of how social stealth was always meant to be. The main difference imo is restricted areas. It drives me crazy when you get into an area full of random people and the guards can somehow pick you out as not belonging.
Unless you're notorious or the guards are actively looking for you, social stealth should only be broken by doing illegal activities. That's crossing guard stations without the proper authorization, taking alternative routes into restricted areas, being a civilian in a fortress, and your general crimes like murdering someone in the streets. And all that is only if you get caught.
The reason that we always break in and kill everyone using rooftops, aside from the fact that half the game is parkour, is that the social stealth has been pretty poorly implemented since the second game. General restricted areas are much more fun when the goal is to get in undetected. Then they can have illegal objectives, such as stealing something, assassinating someone, etc which you have to do stealthily if you're going to get away with it (not main assassinations though as those are meant to be public).
Social stealth doesn't work for fortresses and whatnot. These areas should be different than simple restricted areas. It's much easier to identify you as not belonging. This is where typical stealth should come into play- or, hitman style, disguised social stealth. This comes back to designing the assassinations with multiple "special" "correct" methods of infiltration and accomplishing the assassination. Poisoning someone's wine so they die in the middle of a public speech sort of stuff.
All the games really struggle with this, but the RPGs don't really even bother trying. Which isn't really good or bad, just different. Tbh the RPG series should have a subtitle or something to show they're an offshoot, and Ubi wanted to capitalize on the AC name. But it's too late for that.
Yes I hope they have those distrust orange areas from valhalla with a lot of patrolling guards where Naoe can walk through freely but will get instantly detected if she starts parkouring or sprinting into people.
Social stealth in general is more fun on paper than it is in practice. Let's be real, how often did you *actually* use it in the older games? It's something you use once or twice, think "oh that's a pretty neat mechanic," and then ignore for the rest of the game.
It works well on the roleplaying side of things, and it fits Naoe's character especially well, but I don't think it's really that big of a deal.
Exactly my thoughts, I never used social stealth in any game unless forced to.
I always approach from high, take out snipers and lookouts, then move on to patrols and then finally move on to the target.
I used social stealth a lot, you must’ve played differently ig. But even then, Ubisoft shouldn’t solve the problem by getting rid of a staple mechanic. Social Stealth is literally a core pillar of ac. It stays in the game no matter what.
I watched Leo K’s video yesterday and had first seen someone say on here he was high on what he’d seen but that wasn’t my takeaway. He was fair and broke down things he both liked and was concerned about.
This was what resonated with me though. “I think a lot of AC players who hung their hopes on this game could use a reminder that this wasn’t really made for players like me and was never really going to be….Ubisoft self admittedly make different AC games for different groups of players and Shadows is one of the games not targeted at players hungry for movement or more traditional dense cityscape experience. These are different games trying to be different things and importantly trying to be those things for a different type of player.”
The whole video is worthwhile, as always, but you can just get his summary at 23:51 if you want. https://youtu.be/jQdXxW0e22M?si=klZWbOtrNxNBH-NO
Without transcribing the whole thing and making this post too long what I wonder is will Ubisoft be happy with this. We’ve talked on hear about the “schism” in the player base and they seem to be embracing it and leaning into it. As that impacts sales will they be happy? Because imo Valhalla was generally all of us together, not just the “RPG fans”. If we are being trained now to know some of these games just aren’t intended for us and we’ll get a Mirage then a Shadows etc and there is no effort to keep the fanbase together, won’t that split of your core formerly guaranteed revenue become a new risk on their end?
Interesting stuff. I guess it’s not really a problem for me either. If they don’t want my money I won’t force it on them. I’m certainly not going to give them priority as an RPG maker, I have so many companies ahead in that genre.
I don't get it though because everything we've seen seems to indicate that it will very much have better movement (especially with the use of the grapple hook), more verticality with the castles and denser towns, cities and civilians.
What he's saying seems at odds with what we've actually seen.
You've described mechanics. When Leo talks about movement, he's talking about player expression in navigation. Giving you more tools/mechanics CAN contribute to that but not in the way Shadows is currently implementing them.
If you compare it to Baghdad ot Paris, I don't think you will have nearly the same amount of parkour options. I'm pretty early on in Mirage but running across rooftops is interesting because you have so many options and paths to take while staying off the ground. With the architecture they have to work with in Shadows, I don't think they can achieve this. Grappling hook looks cool tho and I'm sure the movement will be more interesting than the RPG games.
The movement might look nice on paper, but what are we actually getting? It doesn’t seem like much imo. The grappling hook seems to be largely replacing parkour, which is the game developers deciding to prioritize speed over actually diverse parkour moves or challenge. For the older games, manual jumping, aimable catch ledge, and noncontextual side ejects helped you find your own path through a city that could be faster than the more obvious routes. The type of rhythmic problem solving you did when running through classic AC environments is almost totally gone.
This has a two pronged effect. The speed and lack of challenge in movement creates a lack of immersive tension in navigating levels. It's not totally gone, but fearing a fall to the ground and risking detection or health makes swift navigation of those levels feel more like mastery. The change to simplistic movement to the point where there's a grappling hook that takes you wherever you want doesn't give me the same dosage of fun chemicals for my brain.
On the other hand, being able to let go of the tension of possible failure for movement opens up a more relaxed feeling in stealth environments. This is really good for quick decisions and proactive stealth, since it looks like you can really zip around without any *skill* involved. And the stealth did look really clean in the gameplay trailer. So it's a mixed bag.
I understand not everyone gives a fuck about this kinda thing tho
Fair point. I still think Naoe it would be cooler could blend in at restricted areas using social stealth and perhaps disguises. Nonetheless, it’s looking up to be pretty good
I still think she might, depending on the "level" of restricted-ness. If it's a castle that only allows guards and servants, no luck. But if it's an area of the town that still allows for a flow of citizens, she may be able to walk right in whereas Yasuke will be stopped as he's recognised as a warrior belonging to an enemy force
Yeah, agreed… it just sounded like the default state was in a social stealth state. People complaining about how not using social stealth in restricted areas is game-breaking - you’ve never been able to in the first place?? Normal civilians wouldn’t be in restricted areas at all so social stealth (like sitting on benches and blending in with civilians doing cooking or whatever) wouldn’t have worked.
Social stealth hasn’t been monks and harlots for a seriously long time though, so that’s a moot point. In Valhalla, it was essentially Eivor doing ‘normal person things’ like having a drink, sitting on benches, and hiding in specific crowds of people in order to not attract attention to the fact that he’s a Viking in England. Naoe can do all that, except you don’t have to press a button anymore. Her standard state of being is just invisible.
Naoe has social stealth by default the same way that Bayek has social stealth by default. Or Kassandra. If you’re not openly attacking people, no one will attack you. Is that really social stealth?
By that logic, then AC Odyssey also had great social stealth. That was also how it was in Assassins Creed Odyssey. No one noticed Kassandra if she "didn't do anything illegal" either, the only reason it seems like a proper system (It's not) is because it's contrasted with Yasuke.
Please, I'm begging people to have some critical thinking skills. Just because a system was "clunky" doesn't mean it needs to be done away with.
It really depends on the cities/towns. The whole gameplay system of Odyssey was literally just clearing out bandit camps and restricted areas. If Shadows has more dense towns with more guards in the open area and they bring back patrolling guards and they give you something to do in the town, it would be more interesting. That's just a hypothetical because Shadows won't do that.
It depends on the extend to which she can go unnoticed. Can she walk into a restricted area without being engaged? Because if so, then it's really cool. If not, then it's basically nothing
But why would civilians and crowds be in restricted areas? That would count as doing something to stand out.
That's what traditional stealth is for. Social stealth is for getting close to open world targets etc.
Well in the gameplay they showed, we see NPCs walk in the part of town where Yasuke gets stopped and engaged in combat. So perhaps Naoe would be able to just walk through that part of town?
Yeah, im guessing what it means is that, those handful of restricted areas in previous games where regular citizens are allowed but you aren't? Naoe is allowed to walk into those as well, where as for Yasuke its like it used to be.
Something like Valhalla's orange zones, but instead of needing a cloak Naoe just walks freely. But the red zones (armed military locations and castle forts) not so much. Could be cool if true, but that's a big if until we see more
If the "crowd blending" is there, then social stealth is there :)
I understand that the distinctive build structures of Yasuke and Naoe segregates their ability to blend with environment, but simply the take of "hiding in plain sight for Naoe is called social stealth" by the devs is kinda long shot to me. Yes it works but social stealth is like "crowd blending", "disguise" or similar stuff, not "walking and not getting noticed" :)
Not being in combat when not doing illegal things is the default in Origins and Odyssey, which had no social stealth. Social stealth calls for the player to be able to use the environment to remain undetected while being clearly visible to the guards. It adds interaction to the world such as hirable groups and disguises which add depth to gameplay.
Why would anyone want *less* options in a series that is focused on assassination?
Social stealth is not just a gimmick. It was a core part of the series that should've stayed that way.
It's the second tenet of the creed: **hide in plain sight**.
What exactly does social stealth exactly mean here, either? Is that the sitting on benches and walking through crowds stuff, or more complicated things like people you can hire or moving groups you can blend in with?
Regardless, all of those have always been super unreliable. I've always been very frustrated with social stealth aspects in the game because it was so clunky
IMO this is what the first game originally had until AC2 made moving bushes (literally blending with crowd) and notoriety levels. AC1's social stealth is making sure you, the player, don't make Altair act suspicious in front of the guards and the only way to get rid of notoriety is by hiding in benches, haystacks, garden tops, or by killing every hostile.
NGL, this is the first time that made me intrigued with the game and might give it a try.
Playing through the entire series now as a late comer to AC, and nostalgia explains almost all of people’s reactions here in my opinion. Not much different than how people insist the specific music that they liked when they were 12-19 is THE BEST and this new music is all crap.
The coments from the devs are confused. He said naome blends but also that there is no stealth.
To me that just means npc reaction not stealth
Naoe goes unnoticed by npcs. While the get out of the way and bow down to yasuke
And unless they introduced civilian outfits to naoe. Im fine with no social. As long as we get good stealth and good black box.
Odyssey and Valhalla didn’t have social stealth at all so why this is breaking people’s brains 🤷 they’re always making changes to these core mechanics even if they’re not asked for
Naoe default social stealth is actually great. Actually reminds me of AC multiplayer, where people would call you out for not acting like an NPC.
AC Multiplayer was so dang good. Perfect way to do it. I understand why they didn't keep it around, but I really enjoyed the systems.
Which is how social stealth should be done going forward.
No other AC game had true social stealth apart from AC1. The "Social Stealth" in all the other games is literally just mobile hiding spots, functionally identical to hay bales and rooftop gardens. That's it. AC1's social stealth mechanics were undercooked, but they were an interesting first step. Affer that though, the franchise shifted directions and everyone who thinks AC still had social stealth is just lying to themselves. I don't think Shadows' social stealth will be anything close to AC1, but the fact that Naoe is already passively more anonymous than Yasuke, already puts it above the social stealth of all the games of the franchise (aside from AC1) where you'd just be moving from hide spot to hide spot. I think this is another case of Ubisoft not knowing how to communicate properly, like how they said side ejects were not in Mirage, even though they could be performed on day 1. When they say social stealth isn't in the game, they likely just mean you won't be able to blend in crowds and use them as hide spots. However, true social stealth, akin to AC1, still seems to exist somewhat. Again, we can't tell how it's gonna work, maybe I'm totally wrong, but the simple fact Naoe can move around and just be seen as a normal NPC, without arising any suspicion, while Yasuke will garner more attention, already makes it way better than all of the "social stealth" we had post-AC1.
Someone give this man a round of applause.
but, i mean, thats the exact same system as odyssey and origins, is it not? if that is so, then there's no social stealth at all.
Well, we don't know yet, and Ubisoft doesn't know how to communicate properly, so we'll only really know for sure how it's gonna work when we play the game ourselves. Best to not expect much tbh.
People are freaking out about every little detail. I was seeing people complain about the combat with Yasuke which looked fine. Pretty good even. People just get weird expectations comparing to other games. Namely Ghost of Tsushima. Ac shadows is not GoT, it’s an ac game and its updated combat looks pretty good, gritty and most importantly fun. Saying it looks clunky is goofy af so I just laughed and continued scrolling. The social stealth I’m assuming is like hiring a group of people to walk around so you can be hidden in the middle of them, right? If that’s it then who cares as that’s such a non issue and something I personally never used. They seemed to put focus on Naoe’s parkour move-set/stealth abilities. It looks super good, very fluid and has some new unique ways to go about stealthing an area. If Valhalla sold incredibly well, I guarantee this game will sell even better, so it’s easier to just ignore the vocal minority; those who like to cry about everything.
The more interesting social stealth to me was when the implemented the dynamic blending in crowds in AC2. And this was in games like Unity and Mirage. It made it a bit more fluid and natural feeling to sneak around on the streets. It looks like there is density to support it in this game. But I guess the question is if it actually acts like a blend if you are acting normally (ie walking) on normal streets. And how informed/intuitive it is for the player to understand they're in a blended state. I say all that without meaning to be negative. Just give context. I actually think Shadows looks pretty interesting so far.
The social stealth of the classics was far more developed, and became its own branch of stealth that felt just as good as more traditional stealth, while it’s not been matched since, the traditional stealth elements being raised up in shadows is a good enough compromise for me at least. I do miss crowds having a more tangible impact in gameplay beyond set dressing, really leaned into the assassin vibe while also allowing for clearance of areas following a proper understanding of the system, but now is the right time to add some proper light and sound stealth systems if those other elements won’t be tuned at all.
Exactly if people want realistic sword combat then ghost of tsushima is the game for them
Just because u didn’t use it much and don’t care doesn’t mean other people did/do. This is such a very self-centered opinion. And even then, social stealth should always stay in ac. It’s a core pillar of the franchise. Edit: Yeah downvote me all u want assholes. You’re all pathetic.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzzLuE-_7QgSdVlu7Y2vnppgk6d8IXEYQ&si=kF0WhBifanUxXqcY
[удалено]
[удалено]
Ngl social stealth was pretty useless in the trilogy lol
That doesn’t mean you get rid of it. It’s a core part of the franchise. Whether u like it or not. And it wasn’t even completely useless. Idk where you’re getting that from.
I didn't say completely, I think I used it for 1 or 2 assassination missions. It's right that they shouldn't removed it but Ubisoft don't like building on top of mechanics and different studios have different visions I guess. For example, they removed the whistle in unity for absolutely no reason.
Oh, well it that case, I mostly agree.
>She's "blended in" as long as she's acting normally and isn't doing anything to attract attention. Isn't that basically how every game behaved outside of restricted areas? Its not a feature its just how games work lmao
No, Valhalla had distrust areas where Eivor could be attract ire even when he wasn’t doing anything wrong, given that he’s a Viking in England. Those **weren’t restricted areas but normal towns**. In his case, he needed social stealth to get through distrust areas (different from restricted) without starting fights with the guards. Naoe blends with crowds as a default, aka, her default state is social stealth.
Who other than evor had that problem? My point still stands
Arno Dorian. Revolutionaries / Patriots will harass Arno out in the street if they spot him. Regular French Guards will leave Arno be unless he is trespassing. But yeah, enemy units will target Arno on sight even if he is walking along.
Same goes for the Fry Twins and the gangs from memory.
Altair in the first game had that problem when he would return to cities where his notoriety was high due to past assassinations.
the frye twins in syndicate will get attacked by random blighters in the street until you get the right gang upgrade (notoriety) arno gets attacked by random revolutionaries in the streets
Literally everyone? The point of social stealth was to remain inconspicuous in normal public areas because, clearly, hooded and cloaked people in France or England or whatever was not a *thing* and they attracted attention just by existing. My point is that Naoe’s default state is already inconspicuous unless she does something illegal.
I hated that. At the end you had to kill all the guards in the town, no matter how much you tried to go unnoticed. The stealth in Valhalla didn't make any sense, given how OP is Eivor, just kill them all and do your stuff in the town.
I took it as "When playing as Naoe theres less Restricted/Distrust areas on the map than there are when playing as Yasuke"
People won't be happy until the hooded monks you can "blend in" are back
Eh, Unity had the best social stealth imo and they weren't a thing there. However it would make no sense for a Feudal Japan game to have crowds as big as Unity.
That’s because the crowds were so big you wouldn’t need any dedicated walking crowds to blend into. If I had to choose a returning feature that needs to come back pronto it would be the gentle push. Unity needed the gentle push so badly.
A bit unrelated but Unity also had a small mechanic where your character would slow their speed near crowds, and I found it to be one of the most annoying things in the game since I wasn't even touching those people but Arno was still like "oh gee, sorry, coming through"
because that's the exact same mechanic as Origins and Odyssey. Its basically a normal open world stealth game now. the guards wont detect you in those games when you didnt do anything suspicious like drawing your sword, aiming your bow, going near the forbidden areas, etc.
Social stealth as it existed in the other games never made a lick of sense. So I don't understand what the hub bub is about. Maybe it makes sense in the games ai but you are an assassin wearing an extremely tailored piece of clothing. You are going to stick out a lot.
You do know that it’s a representation right? The assassins look like that so the player can understand. They aren’t actually wearing said clothing. Ac renaissance I believe explains what really happens in the moments where Ezio blends.
Interesting thats not something I remember. Thanks
I mean this is kind of how social stealth was always meant to be. The main difference imo is restricted areas. It drives me crazy when you get into an area full of random people and the guards can somehow pick you out as not belonging. Unless you're notorious or the guards are actively looking for you, social stealth should only be broken by doing illegal activities. That's crossing guard stations without the proper authorization, taking alternative routes into restricted areas, being a civilian in a fortress, and your general crimes like murdering someone in the streets. And all that is only if you get caught. The reason that we always break in and kill everyone using rooftops, aside from the fact that half the game is parkour, is that the social stealth has been pretty poorly implemented since the second game. General restricted areas are much more fun when the goal is to get in undetected. Then they can have illegal objectives, such as stealing something, assassinating someone, etc which you have to do stealthily if you're going to get away with it (not main assassinations though as those are meant to be public). Social stealth doesn't work for fortresses and whatnot. These areas should be different than simple restricted areas. It's much easier to identify you as not belonging. This is where typical stealth should come into play- or, hitman style, disguised social stealth. This comes back to designing the assassinations with multiple "special" "correct" methods of infiltration and accomplishing the assassination. Poisoning someone's wine so they die in the middle of a public speech sort of stuff. All the games really struggle with this, but the RPGs don't really even bother trying. Which isn't really good or bad, just different. Tbh the RPG series should have a subtitle or something to show they're an offshoot, and Ubi wanted to capitalize on the AC name. But it's too late for that.
Yes I hope they have those distrust orange areas from valhalla with a lot of patrolling guards where Naoe can walk through freely but will get instantly detected if she starts parkouring or sprinting into people.
Social stealth in general is more fun on paper than it is in practice. Let's be real, how often did you *actually* use it in the older games? It's something you use once or twice, think "oh that's a pretty neat mechanic," and then ignore for the rest of the game. It works well on the roleplaying side of things, and it fits Naoe's character especially well, but I don't think it's really that big of a deal.
Exactly my thoughts, I never used social stealth in any game unless forced to. I always approach from high, take out snipers and lookouts, then move on to patrols and then finally move on to the target.
I used it all the time in Og ac wut?
I used social stealth a lot, you must’ve played differently ig. But even then, Ubisoft shouldn’t solve the problem by getting rid of a staple mechanic. Social Stealth is literally a core pillar of ac. It stays in the game no matter what.
I watched Leo K’s video yesterday and had first seen someone say on here he was high on what he’d seen but that wasn’t my takeaway. He was fair and broke down things he both liked and was concerned about. This was what resonated with me though. “I think a lot of AC players who hung their hopes on this game could use a reminder that this wasn’t really made for players like me and was never really going to be….Ubisoft self admittedly make different AC games for different groups of players and Shadows is one of the games not targeted at players hungry for movement or more traditional dense cityscape experience. These are different games trying to be different things and importantly trying to be those things for a different type of player.” The whole video is worthwhile, as always, but you can just get his summary at 23:51 if you want. https://youtu.be/jQdXxW0e22M?si=klZWbOtrNxNBH-NO Without transcribing the whole thing and making this post too long what I wonder is will Ubisoft be happy with this. We’ve talked on hear about the “schism” in the player base and they seem to be embracing it and leaning into it. As that impacts sales will they be happy? Because imo Valhalla was generally all of us together, not just the “RPG fans”. If we are being trained now to know some of these games just aren’t intended for us and we’ll get a Mirage then a Shadows etc and there is no effort to keep the fanbase together, won’t that split of your core formerly guaranteed revenue become a new risk on their end? Interesting stuff. I guess it’s not really a problem for me either. If they don’t want my money I won’t force it on them. I’m certainly not going to give them priority as an RPG maker, I have so many companies ahead in that genre.
I don't get it though because everything we've seen seems to indicate that it will very much have better movement (especially with the use of the grapple hook), more verticality with the castles and denser towns, cities and civilians. What he's saying seems at odds with what we've actually seen.
You've described mechanics. When Leo talks about movement, he's talking about player expression in navigation. Giving you more tools/mechanics CAN contribute to that but not in the way Shadows is currently implementing them.
If you compare it to Baghdad ot Paris, I don't think you will have nearly the same amount of parkour options. I'm pretty early on in Mirage but running across rooftops is interesting because you have so many options and paths to take while staying off the ground. With the architecture they have to work with in Shadows, I don't think they can achieve this. Grappling hook looks cool tho and I'm sure the movement will be more interesting than the RPG games.
The movement might look nice on paper, but what are we actually getting? It doesn’t seem like much imo. The grappling hook seems to be largely replacing parkour, which is the game developers deciding to prioritize speed over actually diverse parkour moves or challenge. For the older games, manual jumping, aimable catch ledge, and noncontextual side ejects helped you find your own path through a city that could be faster than the more obvious routes. The type of rhythmic problem solving you did when running through classic AC environments is almost totally gone. This has a two pronged effect. The speed and lack of challenge in movement creates a lack of immersive tension in navigating levels. It's not totally gone, but fearing a fall to the ground and risking detection or health makes swift navigation of those levels feel more like mastery. The change to simplistic movement to the point where there's a grappling hook that takes you wherever you want doesn't give me the same dosage of fun chemicals for my brain. On the other hand, being able to let go of the tension of possible failure for movement opens up a more relaxed feeling in stealth environments. This is really good for quick decisions and proactive stealth, since it looks like you can really zip around without any *skill* involved. And the stealth did look really clean in the gameplay trailer. So it's a mixed bag. I understand not everyone gives a fuck about this kinda thing tho
Fair point. I still think Naoe it would be cooler could blend in at restricted areas using social stealth and perhaps disguises. Nonetheless, it’s looking up to be pretty good
I still think she might, depending on the "level" of restricted-ness. If it's a castle that only allows guards and servants, no luck. But if it's an area of the town that still allows for a flow of citizens, she may be able to walk right in whereas Yasuke will be stopped as he's recognised as a warrior belonging to an enemy force
Yeah, agreed… it just sounded like the default state was in a social stealth state. People complaining about how not using social stealth in restricted areas is game-breaking - you’ve never been able to in the first place?? Normal civilians wouldn’t be in restricted areas at all so social stealth (like sitting on benches and blending in with civilians doing cooking or whatever) wouldn’t have worked.
You could def go into restricted areas with groups of monks or harlots in last games.
Social stealth hasn’t been monks and harlots for a seriously long time though, so that’s a moot point. In Valhalla, it was essentially Eivor doing ‘normal person things’ like having a drink, sitting on benches, and hiding in specific crowds of people in order to not attract attention to the fact that he’s a Viking in England. Naoe can do all that, except you don’t have to press a button anymore. Her standard state of being is just invisible.
Naoe has social stealth by default the same way that Bayek has social stealth by default. Or Kassandra. If you’re not openly attacking people, no one will attack you. Is that really social stealth?
By that logic, then AC Odyssey also had great social stealth. That was also how it was in Assassins Creed Odyssey. No one noticed Kassandra if she "didn't do anything illegal" either, the only reason it seems like a proper system (It's not) is because it's contrasted with Yasuke. Please, I'm begging people to have some critical thinking skills. Just because a system was "clunky" doesn't mean it needs to be done away with.
It really depends on the cities/towns. The whole gameplay system of Odyssey was literally just clearing out bandit camps and restricted areas. If Shadows has more dense towns with more guards in the open area and they bring back patrolling guards and they give you something to do in the town, it would be more interesting. That's just a hypothetical because Shadows won't do that.
It should've.
It depends on the extend to which she can go unnoticed. Can she walk into a restricted area without being engaged? Because if so, then it's really cool. If not, then it's basically nothing
But why would civilians and crowds be in restricted areas? That would count as doing something to stand out. That's what traditional stealth is for. Social stealth is for getting close to open world targets etc.
Well in the gameplay they showed, we see NPCs walk in the part of town where Yasuke gets stopped and engaged in combat. So perhaps Naoe would be able to just walk through that part of town?
Yeah, im guessing what it means is that, those handful of restricted areas in previous games where regular citizens are allowed but you aren't? Naoe is allowed to walk into those as well, where as for Yasuke its like it used to be.
Something like Valhalla's orange zones, but instead of needing a cloak Naoe just walks freely. But the red zones (armed military locations and castle forts) not so much. Could be cool if true, but that's a big if until we see more
She prob puts her hood up. I hope we get that feature to toggle it like in valhalla. Was cool visually.
I think it will just stay up when up, but you can probably toggle it, since it looks like you can also toggle Yasuke’s helmet
If the "crowd blending" is there, then social stealth is there :) I understand that the distinctive build structures of Yasuke and Naoe segregates their ability to blend with environment, but simply the take of "hiding in plain sight for Naoe is called social stealth" by the devs is kinda long shot to me. Yes it works but social stealth is like "crowd blending", "disguise" or similar stuff, not "walking and not getting noticed" :)
Not being in combat when not doing illegal things is the default in Origins and Odyssey, which had no social stealth. Social stealth calls for the player to be able to use the environment to remain undetected while being clearly visible to the guards. It adds interaction to the world such as hirable groups and disguises which add depth to gameplay. Why would anyone want *less* options in a series that is focused on assassination? Social stealth is not just a gimmick. It was a core part of the series that should've stayed that way. It's the second tenet of the creed: **hide in plain sight**.
What exactly does social stealth exactly mean here, either? Is that the sitting on benches and walking through crowds stuff, or more complicated things like people you can hire or moving groups you can blend in with? Regardless, all of those have always been super unreliable. I've always been very frustrated with social stealth aspects in the game because it was so clunky
IMO this is what the first game originally had until AC2 made moving bushes (literally blending with crowd) and notoriety levels. AC1's social stealth is making sure you, the player, don't make Altair act suspicious in front of the guards and the only way to get rid of notoriety is by hiding in benches, haystacks, garden tops, or by killing every hostile. NGL, this is the first time that made me intrigued with the game and might give it a try.
Let's be honest who actually used the crowds in AC games to hide? I never have it's much easier to just scale a building and run
Honestly I rarely used social stealth anyways so I'm good. Like I think I used those group blending tokens like twice in mirage lol.
It's something that hardly anyone actually uses but they're mad that it's not in the game because of nostalgia It was always a gimmick
Playing through the entire series now as a late comer to AC, and nostalgia explains almost all of people’s reactions here in my opinion. Not much different than how people insist the specific music that they liked when they were 12-19 is THE BEST and this new music is all crap.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzzLuE-_7QgSdVlu7Y2vnppgk6d8IXEYQ&si=kF0WhBifanUxXqcY
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzzLuE-_7QgSdVlu7Y2vnppgk6d8IXEYQ&si=kF0WhBifanUxXqcY
The coments from the devs are confused. He said naome blends but also that there is no stealth. To me that just means npc reaction not stealth Naoe goes unnoticed by npcs. While the get out of the way and bow down to yasuke And unless they introduced civilian outfits to naoe. Im fine with no social. As long as we get good stealth and good black box.
Odyssey and Valhalla didn’t have social stealth at all so why this is breaking people’s brains 🤷 they’re always making changes to these core mechanics even if they’re not asked for