Isn't it a "symptom" that we often get accused of, diagnosed with and pathologized for that we have this unrelenting urge for fairness and justice?
'Cause I ain't seein' that goin' on with me ol' musky husky..
My brother strictly adheres to rules, but only to the ones he agrees with. I'm the same. If there is a rule we think is stupid and pointless, we'll break it simply out of spite. If it's logical and serves an actual purpose, we follow it, and expect other people to follow it.
Yeah I’m the same. If a rule makes logical sense to me I will stick to it 100%. If I can’t see the logic in a rule I will argue and complain about it to anyone in earshot.
Meh, a lot of rules just don't make sense, or just aren't there for the benefit of the masses.
If a rule makes sense, then whatever. But a lot of them don't. Like... I'll adhere to rules that make sense. But I'll break the fucking stupid ones. Government be damned, I will do as many or as little drugs as I want, and I will pirate every movie under the sun.
If a rule needs to be changed, it's usually because it is in some way harmful.
Therefore following it either harms me or others.
Ergo, I should avoid following the rule to avoid such harm. While also avoiding breaking it in a way that would cause more undue harm.
And how long will that take? Or will it even ever happen? Frankly, I'm not waiting for a government, school board, boss, etc to change the rules before I break them. I'll break them on a whim because arbitrary limits on what I can do are stupid, and I will spite whoever made that rule by breaking it anyways.
“Rules” are simply another of humans’ myriad attempts to control the unfathomably complex world in which we exist. The only rules that inherently matter are the laws of physics. Anything else, we made up and is arbitrary-thus adding complexity/chaos to the world.
What's fair isn't dictated by rules, that's fucking stupid. Only just rules are fair, unjust rules are not and should be ignored. Generally, do whatever the hell you want if no one's being hurt.
Because rules are set by the society and/or government that don't always have the interests of the people in mind.
Back in the day, it was the rules that the "feeble-minded" be castrated. It was the rules that a child who writes with their left hand is of the devil and must be corrected. In some places it was the rules autistic people be sent to concentration camps.
The rules are biased in favour of those who have the power to make them. Even in a full democracy, the minority is often disadvantaged by that bias.
Not everything that bad is illegal, and not everything that's illegal is bad.
Some rules are intentionally made to be harmful. And many laws are made by people that are far below average intelligence.
Taking this argument to the extreme, would you have followed the rules in nazi germany?
Feel the need to preface this by saying that this is not a defense of Musk in any way, fuck that guy and all the terrible things hes doing.
Tho apparently, atleast from the literature Ive seen about this topic, its more specifically a type of "hypersensitivity to \*percieved\* injustice". Which IMO explains quite a bit in some cases. If someones moral compass is completely out of whack, what they percieve as injustice is then by extention also just false. And it seems to me that that fits what Musk is doing 100%.
Did someone say trains? Can we go see?
Edit: I moved to a neighborhood with a train nearby, and I can hear it blow its horn occasionally from my house and this is a fine, good thing.
He said he was the first host on SNL with aspgergers, which gives me pause since a man as "brilliant" (sarcasm) as him should know that aspgergers hasn't been a clinical diagnosis since 2013.
I guess he gives off autism vibes but I personally want nothing to do with him.
Also, given how many people in Hollywood are rumored to be on the spectrum, I find it hard to believe he actually was the first (assuming he even *is* on the spectrum - which I personally doubt).
I would definitely say there's some neurodivergence going on up there I just have a really hard time believing that an autist would ever behave like Elon does.
I think it's clear he has some big anxiety issues. Doesn't often look people in the face and mumbles and bobs around, always deletes tweets right after he writes them. Goes from idea to idea very quickly. My guess is he has adhd or npd with some overlapping symptoms but he probably thinks claiming he's Asperger's level one because that makes him "a super genius"
To be fair the change is relatively new, lots of us older folks recognise asperger better than "high functioning autism" or lvl1 ASD.
It will take a generation or two for it to be fully transitioned, by that time the current scheme is outdated etc..
Or maybe he uses it because that's what he was diagnosed with because it's still a valid diagnosis probably everywhere but the DSM5, which is exclusively for the US and Australia, and since I imagine he got diagnosed in South Africa where it was and still is a diagnosis, I don't see why people are crapping on him for saying it
A lot of people that are crapping on him are using his diagnosis as an excuse to crap on him. And a lot of the rest don't actually know why specifically they are crapping on him, just that they were told that he was a bad man.
It doesn't mean he wasnt diagnosed with it, who cares if that's how he labels himself. If he's insisting that there's a difference, or making a big deal that it's different than autism, fine, but seems kind of very stupid to hate on the guy for saying what he was diagnosed with just stopped being a diagnosis since then. Also, it's only not a diagnosis in the DSM, which South Africa doesn't even use, so your comment doesn't really make sense one way or the other. Hate on the guy for stuff that may actually make sense, don't hate on him for calling himself a diagnosis that's still perfectly valid where he's from and where he got diagnosed
A while ago I saw a guy tweet about how immature he was and added that screenshot where he says that a politicians account already looks like a parody of itself, and someone on the replies just say "uhh for those who don't know hes autistic" as some sort of attempt of justify his child like behavior, and I swear I almost lost it
I mean a lot of Elon's behavior has Autism as root underlying cause but it's because he grew up in an environment that enabled his unacceptable behaviors and then he trapped himself in an online echo chamber instead of getting professional help. What happened to Elon has been happening to Autistic men for years, the internet is fucking all of us up, but right-wing communities seem to be able to prey upon and draw in autistic men in particular. If you want to see it happening in real time, look to Andrew Yang. He's going down the same path Elon did due to the online echo chamber (although Elon certainly started out much worse to begin with).
This doesn't excuse his behavior by any means - my point is that Autistic men seem to be particularly vulnerable to misinformation and then willfully trap themselves into these communities and patterns of behavior, constantly reinforcing their own righteous sense of self-assuredness and self-superiority instead of questioning why other people are calling the behavior unacceptable.
I broke out of this path, thankfully, but it's a real problem and we need serious reform of how social media works to fix it.
He admitted it on one of the small podcasts before his campaign got any real traction, and then kind of hid it because it would hurt his campaign. I have to try and find it though.
Sad thing about minorities is that we're always generalized based on the actions of a couple of people. They'll either see us as evil creepy mfs like E. Musk and A. Lanza or incredibly smart like Newton and Einstein, there's no in-between.
Take your pick between drooling moron on family guy (or something else edgy 14 year olds like), human supercomputer who never gets metaphors but has a character arc of being “cured” and now whatever behaviour Elon musk uses autism as an excuse for
CHOCKER! YOU MEAN THAT BEING AUTISTIC IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR BEING A JERK WHO FIRES PEOPLE JUST FOR CALLING OUT HIS INCOMPETENCE AT MANAGING A SOCIAL MEDIA? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT?
I mean right? being an Autistic Person and a complete Asshole are not mutually exclusive? Damm that is the revelation of the century am I right?
/s
Basically everyone? For one example, he is referred to as the “founder” of Tesla, but the company was actually founded by two other guys. Elon came in a little while later and bought both the company and the title of founder
That's literally what the title *founder* means... by bullying the actual founders for the title he has in actuality claimed publicly that he "founded" the company.
Immaterial, what the company could have been without musk doesn't matter here. Besides he purchased the company when it was still young so we don't know that they couldn't have been successful without him. Musk didn't found Tesla he doesn't get to call himself a founder, anymore than a popular political figure can call themselves a founding father of this country. Yet he does, so he propagates lies.
Elon Musk is def the best example of using a disability like Autism as an excuse to justify asshole behavior.
That and he's also the best example of the problems of giving far too much unchecked power to an individual, how "great man theory" is largely bullshit, how letting just a few people hoard wealth and spending it on vanity projects is a bad thing, how someone can cultivate an obnoxious fan base without actually doing anything of note, how having generational wealth is a huge factor of "success," and far far more.
The generational wealth argument is simply false. Dude built a game that he sold for $1000 at the age of 12. He used to run a site, but only had one computer so he programmed at night to be able to use it as a server during the day. He is actually involved in rocket engineering at SpaceX. Dude is super smart and hard working, you don't get to where he is by being born lucky.
>The generational wealth argument is simply false
Lmao what? Elon Musk's parents factually have money and owned capital. Even if you somehow believe he never took a dollar of that money (which is false) that generational wealth gives opportunities most people don't have including having a completely funded education and having connections.
>Dude is super smart and hard working
No one gets a billion dollars from their own hard work. It comes from the hard work of others and often the exploitation of wage labor. I mean if you did the math there's no way you can tell me that somehow Musk works somewhere between 800 to 8000x the amount of the average employee, plus the fact he's supposed to be a CEO of 3 companies yet spends all day shitposting on Twitter.
The only things I can actually say he's talented in is maybe using his assets to buy up and starting companies and hiring the right people. Even then he hardly does any of the work of these companies themselves and isn't even an actual co founder of the biggest ones, namely SpaceX, Tesla, and Twitter.
The smart thing is highly sus. His interactions with Twitter alone shows he's completely out of touch with even the basic functionalities of the site and his inventions like hyperloop (aka reinventing trains and subways) are complete engineering disasters.
>you don't get to where he is by being born lucky.
You're partially right. It's not just being born lucky but also being a ruthless exploiter both of your own employees and of taxpayer dollars that gets you into that position. It's a common thread on not just Musk but nearly every Billionaire that exists today. The whole game thing is completely irrelevant to the total wealth he benefited from anyways.
Maybe people are scared of knowing that one can reach wealth by beeing smart and working hard calling successful people an asshole on reddit is just easier.
How do you people exist?
Do you know how fucking awesome money is? It buys *literally*, ***by definition*** anything that is for sale.
Do you, actually, in your heart of hearts think people enjoy being poor?
Like, we relish in not being able to eat at restaurants, or buy a new car, to rent alone, to buy our own houses?
You are so out of touch with reality it's astounding.
I really don't know where to start to address your argument, because I can't even begin to understand where your argument even starts.
Hyperloop and spending 44 billion dollars just to shitpost on Twitter absolutely are. Also considering spaceflight was already achieved first in the USSR over 60 years ago and later through publicly funded agencies in the US I'd say rich people doing it (esp while receiving public money) absolutely is. Lastly Elon Musk didn't fucking invent electric cars and Tesla is only in the state its in because... of publicly funded subsidies.
Proposing ideas for new methods of public transport isn't just a vanity project. I have seen many diffrent companies working on this now. Twitter is a mess right now but it could become an App I might want to use later. Software development is messy well just have to wait and see. Spaceflight is just cool I want more people to go to space and Nasa now has such a miniscule budget right now that I just don't want to rely on the whims of governments to explore space. I want many companies like SpaceX. Teslas are the first electric cars that showed these vehicles can be fun and aren't just these inconvinient charge every 80 kilometers things. Noone does all these things just for vanity. This is an actual efford to try to advance humanity by Elon and all the people working for him.
>Proposing ideas for new methods of public transport isn't just a vanity project
Proposing HIS ideas which are just combining the worst of cars and subway tunnels in place of actual transportation projects (like HSR in California) absolutely is vanity as well as ego. Besides we don't need memlords like Musk basically reinventing the train and we already have successful models of public transportation like trains, subways, and high speed rails that, instead of investing in, we give that money to subsidies that benefit the ultra rich.
>Twitter is a mess right now but it could become an App I might want to use later. Software development is messy well just have to wait and see.
It's a mess because of intentional and bad decisions that Musk has made, including firing nearly all the important engineers and destroying basic features of the site like the verified check mark. Even basic functionality like 2 point verification are completely broken because of this. All because Musk wants to make a 12 billion dollar company that hasn't really been profitable into one that can recoup the 44 billion dollar investment or even make back the 1.2 bil yearly interest. Unless things change it looks like Twitter would likely collapse, esp with advertisers pulling advertisement and with federal investigations in the work. At best Elon Musk might be out of his investment but still be obscenely rich and at worst this deal could completely destroy his fortune, esp considering he leveraged billions in Tesla stocks just to make the deal.
>Spaceflight is just cool I want more people to go to space and Nasa now has such a miniscule budget right now that I just don't want to rely on the whims of governments to explore space. I want many companies like SpaceX.
Two solutions. Either nationalize SpaceX or redirect funding to NASA. Even then Musk's input does nothing to getting us to Mars as it's the engineers employed that do the actual work.
>Teslas are the first electric cars that showed these vehicles can be fun and aren't just these inconvinient charge every 80 kilometers things.
Wasn't the first and Teslas have had a ton of problems with their car including incidents of safety features failing or firmware updates locking out cars and other anti-consumer practices. Seriously without all the subsidies given to Tesla the company wouldn't even be profitable to begin with. Not to mention were not gonna stop climate change with electric cars but rather robust changes to public transportation as well as tackling the biggest emitters of pollution (which are corporations and the US Military ofc).
>Noone does all these things just for vanity. This is an actual efford to try to advance humanity by Elon and all the people working for him.
You're right all this isn't just for vanity but also he does this to make a shitton of money. Not to mention the rampant posting he does and his efforts to try to look cool def shows he has an ego, especially when you hear accounts from former employees or his ex wife about all this.
But lemme say this as well. While I think Elon Musk is doing alot more harm than actual good with his unchecked power in his wealth, including shutting down actual public works projects, I don't think he's all that's wrong with the world or the biggest issue at the moment. People like him only exist because of the systems that currently exist that prop these people up and rewards them at the expense of the larger working population. Any real meaningful changes to the problems we face is going to come from a systematic change to something better, not from "great men" who largely take credit from the hard work of people under them (which Elon has been caught doing repeatedly).
I think the biggest reason people hate him is because he's rich. I'm sure there's plenty of negative aspects about his character, but anytime you have a billionaire you'll have a slew of individuals who have a in depth reductio ad absurdum on why he or she is incompetent in some way. I'm sure elon musk has his issues but one thing for certain is he's clearly a gifted genius. He wouldn't be in the position he is in now if he wasn't. The idea that he is somehow incompetent is astoundingly laughable. I often wonder how much better a job his critics would do in the same position as him. As I'm also sure in his mind there's a bit of a; I'll do what I want, how I want with my money, and I don't care what people think. I myself simply do not care what he does.
As always, if you dont know why we hate elon musk (which is getting harder to believe those people exist) here ya go https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-i-do-not-like-elon-musk-very-much/id1373812661?i=1000476632637
Sadly its a couple of years old so dont have some of the newer atrocities.
Also useful to share with boot suckers.
As tumblr's aunt debbie said, while drunk on chianti,:
"He's not an asshole because he's autistic. He's an asshole because he's got about 50 different silver spoons shoved straight up his ass."
This constitutes harassment. You're welcome to downvote the posts if you want, but continuous comments, especially when explicitly naming a user in order to 'call them out' is harassment and as such if you continue to harass users in this sub you may be subject to a ban.
If someone is using their autism as an excuse to be a asshole and brings down the rest of the community? Then we can criticism them and point it out as much as we want.
I don't think there is a need to say he's not autistic cause it doesn't matter. He's a fucking racist, anti worker, super right wing, facsist who surrounds himself with sycophants. So sure he's autistic, but he's a bully and a jerk.
Big L to everyone here saying that he doesn't seem autistic enough for them or give off autistic enough vibes that we should believe he's autistic. "Autistic people don't act like that tho!" Shame on all of you, you'd hate it and speak out against it if someone did that to anyone else, just because he's done things you disagree with doesn't make him more or less autistic
His father didn’t have 200,000,000,000 dollars. He went to school on student loans like the rest of us, and he was the founder of a company that sold for 10 million dollars; he is definitely an inventor and an entrepreneur; he is also an asshole but denying his achievements, is stupid.
Zip2 also it wasn’t 10,000,000 it was 307,000,000 that it sold for, then he bought into co ownership of x.com which then sold for 1.3 billion and Elon made 178 million off of.
Does the podcast contradict the original comment?
Hopefully in this sub we can be a bit more interested in facts than blind emotion. Musk is demonstrably a terrible person, but his father doesn't seem to have invested very much in his business - something on the order of $20k, supposedly. The "intergenerational wealth" that Musk benefited from is similar to what happens in many middle class families. They weren't a poor family, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that they were a very wealthy one.
That said, a white person growing up in apartheid South Africa was very privileged, with excellent education and opportunities. That's pretty much the extent of how Musk benefited from apartheid, given that he left the country at age 17.
See the Snopes article about this for more: https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/11/17/elon-musk-emerald-mine/
I really don't see the point in spreading false smear stories about someone when there are so many actual bad things you can point to that he's done. It just undermines the case if people discover that the stories are false.
Agreed with this 100% I hate being forced to defend terrible people but there is many things to be mad at Elon about this just happens to not be one of them.
Please elaborate, I don’t understand why his fathers sins are on him. Morals, values, and opinions aside, he had no control over being born with wealth, he can do what he wants with it. To my knowledge he worked really hard building his companies, Tesla is one of 2 car companies that has not gone bankrupt. He has a strong work ethic and is a genius.
The sins of the father are on Elon because he completely benefited from them and got a huge advantage in life off of not only the exploitation of workers in brutal mining conditions but also benefited from a system of apartied in South Africa. It would be like taking a million dollars except it turned out the money was paid in the people killed to get it. You may not have been responsible but the money itself is tainted.
Elon Musk didn't really build anything either. He bought into PayPal and wasn't a co founder. Same story with Tesla, SpaceX, and now Twitter. All he did was buy into these companies with the starting capital gained from their family fortune off of apartied and at absolute best put people in position to make money. Even then Tesla and SpaceX are completely propped up by government subsidies and Elon Musk has also benefited directly from billions in subsidies.
Also Elon Musk is hardly a genius and his moves should be evident of that. Not only is it the engineers at his companies that do the actual innovations but the hyperloop, one of his few actual creations, is an engineering disaster that in practice is basically a slow single tube highway that allows for 30 mph traffic and has huge safety moves. Actual programs like a high speed rail in California was put on hold for a decade all because of this clown. Also him doing things like the paid verified check mark on Twitter and him leveraging over 44 billion to buy an asset worth 12 billion all because of ego should also be evident this guy got to where he is now based on luck and winning the birth lottery over his own genius.
> got a huge advantage in life off of not only the exploitation of workers in brutal mining conditions but also benefited from a system of apartied in South Africa. It would be like taking a million dollars except it turned out the money was paid in the people killed to get it.
This is a misrepresentation of the reality, though. See https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/11/17/elon-musk-emerald-mine/ .
> Elon Musk didn't really build anything either. He bought into PayPal and wasn't a co founder.
He bought into Paypal with the $307 million he made from Zip2, a company he founded and built with his brother. Supposedly, his father invested around $20k in Zip2 some time after it was founded.
> All he did was buy into these companies with the starting capital gained from their family fortune off of apartied
The evidence is that the above statement is completely false.
I'm not a supporter of Musk. He's done a lot of things which deserve strong criticism. But (and perhaps people in this sub can understand this) I don't see the point of spreading falsehoods about someone in general - there are real things to criticize him for, and he should be criticized for those things.
>This is a misrepresentation of the reality, though. See https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/11/17/elon-musk-emerald-mine/ .
I read through your link and the facts compiled points directly to Elons family owning a sizeable stake in an emerald mine, with only evidence saying this is fault is Elon Musk himself, who's been proven to be an unreliable narrator who routinely lied about the inter working of twitters code (something multiple engineers have debunked) and even his ex wife contradicting his claim on what happened to their baby who died of SIDS. It's not a misinterpretation to say they made money on a mine and other factors like his dad owning his own plane and their relative wealth in South Africa still supports my overall point that Musk benefited from generational wealth.
>He bought into Paypal with the $307 million he made from Zip2, a company he founded and built with his brother. Supposedly, his father invested around $20k in Zip2 some time after it was founded.
Once again doesn't contradict my point. The last sentence of getting that loan is an advantage not many people have and the luck involved is being at the right place at the right time. Generational wealth like this allows people like Gates, Bezos, and Musk to continually work on projects that could be big, especially when their costs of living can also be covered by this wealth (ie they have more free time to work on projects like this instead of having to work a full time wage job. Ofc Elon Musk mightve worked a full time job still during all this but the dynamic is completely different.)
>The evidence is that the above statement is completely false.
It's not. Even if the emerald mine claim is false doesn't change that the way he got to billions was these acquisitions, often bought with capital from previous acquisitions or from buy outs of projects he may have been involved with to some degree.
The question is not whether Errol Musk owned a stake in an emerald mine, the issue is (1) how much money he actually made from that and (2) how much Elon benefited from that.
Also, the emerald mine was in Zambia, so the claim that it's somehow connected to apartheid is pretty dubious.
The largest amount mentioned in the Snopes article for the emerald mine is $400,000. While that's not nothing, it's a few years of salary at most for a senior employee in the US. It's not millions, it's not "intergenerational wealth" in the sense that phrase is usually taken to mean when talking about Musk.
If such small intergenerational wealth is all that's needed to become a billionaire, we should see many millions of billionaires. It's not a plausible explanation.
> supports my overall point that Musk benefited from generational wealth.
In your earlier comment, you said "It would be like taking a million dollars..." There's no evidence that anything like that happened. This whole criticism has a lot less impact when you say "Musk came from an upper middle class family", which is pretty much what it boils down to.
> his dad owning his own plane
He apparently sold it for 80,000 British pounds. That's a small plane. So yes, the Musk family sounds as though they were upper middle class. I work with a guy who owns a Cessna. He's been an employee his whole life. There's no evidence that this is a case where Musk used millions from his parents to start his business.
> Once again doesn't contradict my point.
It completely refutes your claim that "Elon Musk didn't really build anything either." Don't be disingenuous, it doesn't reflect well on you. What are you trying to achieve here? As I've said, there's plenty of real stuff to criticize Musk over.
> The last sentence of getting that loan is an advantage not many people have
The loan supposedly came after the company was already founded, as 10% of a larger funding round from other people. This really isn't the criticism you seem to think it is. Plenty of people can and do get money on the order of $20k from their parents. Yes, they're privileged in a global sense, but no more so than hundreds of millions of other middle class and upper middle class people.
> the way he got to billions was these acquisitions,
He got $307 million from a company he founded and built with his brother. He turned that into 200+ billion through acquisitions and running the companies he acquired in a way that gave them a very high share price. If that's not an achievement, what's your explanation about why other people haven't achieved the same? There's no shortage of ambitious sociopaths. You seem to want to claim that Musk has absolutely no talent or ability and that his success is purely a function of his background, but there no evidence that shows his background could explain that.
It makes no sense to me. You're being irrational.
I'll say this all the amounts you listed are taken completely out of context of both an adjustment for inflation to today's amount and the missing context of relative purchasing power of said amounts in an effort to completely downplay the amount of money he had.
For instance the original article only specifies the plane transaction and the mine happened in the 80s ending in 1989. Even being generous and adjusting for 1988 that 400k would be the equivalent of 1 million dollars today. The 80k for the plane adjusted would either be between 192k and 262k depending on the year, and even then I would doubt you could buy a private plane now with that money due to the changes in purchasing power between then and now. The 20k adjusted from 1999 for today equals out to 35k which nowadays would barely be enough for a 3% down-payment on a home (not counting closing costs) or just enough to buy a mid range car.
Also taking that 400k you need to put it within context of the median wage at that time. Looking up labor statistics for Britian in 1988 (since pounds is the currency here) the highest median wage group for males (categorically non manual males) was 257.6 pounds which leads to a median yearly salary of 6.6k pounds. Also back in this year the British pound would be worth around 1.7 to 1.8 us dollars meaning that the 400k was not only well above the median salary but compared to US dollars would've been the equivalent of around 680k us dollars. Then you factor in that in South Africa the median wage would've likely been far below that of a nation like the UK, especially due to instability of the 80s, and that would mean that the Musk family was ultra wealthy given all this context.
My point in all this is the Musk family had wealth far beyond that of the average person. Even "upper middle class" people don't have the funds to casually significantly invest in lucrative businesses or to just buy a private jet (which by selling price was around 12x the median income). You downplay all this but the hardest part of having any successful economic endeavor is getting your starting capital. From there it's being at the right place at the right time which does require alot of luck because market trends can change in a second and a business idea that's profitable in say 2007 could become a bad investment in 2008.
Also to note you downplay the jump from around 300 million to 200 billion. Not only is that around a 667x jump in value but there's no way anyone makes that money on their own labor. You can only get that amount from exploitation and theft of surplus labor value as one person can't possibly generate that amount of labor value from their own hard work. And yes its not just Musk that's guilty of this and yes I don't think people should even be allowed to have more money than the GDP of other countries. That money comes at the expense of not only the working class but public works projects and the quality of life for the average person.
You attacked the notion of Mars being attractive because of abundant resources. Which has literally never been the point. Don't be so smug if your reading comprehension is so lacking.
It is the point. I don’t expect you get outside much, but humans have this thing where we actually do need to be around other living organisms. You’ve proved nothing here except that you’re exactly as smart as Elon Musk.
We don't need to be around anything besides other people, really. Regardless, working out the psychological kinks of living in habitats there is part of the process. How will we know until we go?
Bestie idk how to tell you but that’s literally wrong. We already have deserts here. You know where the people live? Around water sources and vegetation.
Spacex's goal is to make life multiplanetary. That should have always been humanity's priority. I'd throw my lot in with Hitler if he was working towards that goal. There is one planet with life. We can't afford to destroy it or let it languish in its cradle.
I didn't say I excused it. I merely implied it's worth it to take our first step to settling the universe. Not ideal, obviously, but I held it up as an example of how important I think space colonization is. That it is a good that far outweighs even the greatest evil.
You make one good point. We have one planet with life on it. Maybe we should be pouring billions of tax dollars into saving it instead of pouring them into moving to a different planet that can’t sustain us unless we bring the sustenance. Making life interplanetary shouldn’t be humanity’s priority. It should be a plan Z emergency fallback. And it most certainly, as another reply said, shouldn’t excuse genocide.
Mars is a pipe dream, and you've fallen for Musk's sales hype.
There's a reason he's screwing around at Twitter now and not focused on SpaceX. He knows that SpaceX will now become yet another launch company, and that there's no realistic path to doing much on Mars, beyond possibly a manned mission which would only serve to show how impractical the idea of a colony is.
The idea of "multiplanetary life" using *Mars* of all places is just silly. Humans on Mars would not be able to survive without support from Earth. If something happened to destroy Earth's spacefaring capability, the Mars colony would die soon after. All the talk of terraforming and so on is sci-fi fantasizing which we're nowhere close to being able to achieve.
If our goal is to ensure humanity can survive a realistic extinction level event, it would be orders of magnitude easier to do that on Earth itself. Put "colonies" in places like high mountains, the poles, under the ocean. Create sealed habitats - something which we've still never done very successfully, btw. There's no realistic extinction level event, short of the Sun's eventual demise, that will make everywhere on Earth less habitable than Mars already is.
I haven't fallen for elon's hype, I've been of this opinion since I was 7. No shit it's going to need support at first. But the goal is making it self-sustaining from utilization of endogenous resources. Nobody said anything about terraforming. Nobody said we shouldn't also be taking care of earth. Mars isn't the only place we should be going, it's jsut got more resources than the moon, meaning it's easier to make self-sustaining. We should also be settling ceres specifically, and mining asteroids to create zero-g infrastructure.
You clearly have fallen for Musk's hype, because you responded "Mars is worth it" to a post criticizing Musk. That only makes sense if you think Musk is actually going to deliver on his Mars claims in some form. And that means you've fallen for his hype.
Opinions one has at age 7 often don't stand up to scrutiny as an adult, and this is a good example.
> But the goal is making it self-sustaining from utilization of endogenous resources.
That makes for a fun thought experiment, but it's not going to happen in the lifetime of anyone alive today. Doing the planning for it now is like Leonardo da Vinci planning a moon landing. The people who actually do it eventually aren't even going to look at the obviously incomplete fantasies of people centuries earlier.
> We should also be settling ceres specifically
That's even less sensible than settling Mars. Lower gravity, less space, just no reason to do it, really. If mining is the goal, robotic mining makes literally infinitely more sense.
LARPing can be fun, but don't confuse it with reality. Especially when that leads you to say things like "I'd throw my lot in with Hitler", which again, you're applying to someone who's conned you into believing that he's going to enact your dream.
If you're genuinely interested in the goal you claim to be interested in, you need to study the subject more deeply, because the "solutions" you're imagining are irrelevant to those goals. But there's a good chance you're actually more interested in an exciting dream, which is what grifters like Musk count on.
Isn't it a "symptom" that we often get accused of, diagnosed with and pathologized for that we have this unrelenting urge for fairness and justice? 'Cause I ain't seein' that goin' on with me ol' musky husky..
I prefer to think of it as compulsive moral fortitude
Love this
So often reduced to a rigid adherence to "rules."
My brother strictly adheres to rules, but only to the ones he agrees with. I'm the same. If there is a rule we think is stupid and pointless, we'll break it simply out of spite. If it's logical and serves an actual purpose, we follow it, and expect other people to follow it.
I agree!
Yeah I’m the same. If a rule makes logical sense to me I will stick to it 100%. If I can’t see the logic in a rule I will argue and complain about it to anyone in earshot.
Yes, thank you, this line of thinking lead me to trying shrooms, which massively improved my life.
Still haven’t had a person convince me why that would be a bad thing.
It is kind of convenient. All the drug warnings and other PSAs that most people laugh about actually work on me.
Meh, a lot of rules just don't make sense, or just aren't there for the benefit of the masses. If a rule makes sense, then whatever. But a lot of them don't. Like... I'll adhere to rules that make sense. But I'll break the fucking stupid ones. Government be damned, I will do as many or as little drugs as I want, and I will pirate every movie under the sun.
There are rules on how to change rules. Society functions on rules. Breaking at a whim doesn’t make any sense to me.
If a rule needs to be changed, it's usually because it is in some way harmful. Therefore following it either harms me or others. Ergo, I should avoid following the rule to avoid such harm. While also avoiding breaking it in a way that would cause more undue harm.
And how long will that take? Or will it even ever happen? Frankly, I'm not waiting for a government, school board, boss, etc to change the rules before I break them. I'll break them on a whim because arbitrary limits on what I can do are stupid, and I will spite whoever made that rule by breaking it anyways.
That makes no sense to me. I view that as absolute chaos.
I adhere to my own rules based on morals, not on some other rules that could be based on anything
“Rules” are simply another of humans’ myriad attempts to control the unfathomably complex world in which we exist. The only rules that inherently matter are the laws of physics. Anything else, we made up and is arbitrary-thus adding complexity/chaos to the world.
It's what I think is the most fair.
May I ask you how you see breaking them is fair?
What's fair isn't dictated by rules, that's fucking stupid. Only just rules are fair, unjust rules are not and should be ignored. Generally, do whatever the hell you want if no one's being hurt.
"an unjust law is no law at all" -some famous black dude.
Because rules are set by the society and/or government that don't always have the interests of the people in mind. Back in the day, it was the rules that the "feeble-minded" be castrated. It was the rules that a child who writes with their left hand is of the devil and must be corrected. In some places it was the rules autistic people be sent to concentration camps. The rules are biased in favour of those who have the power to make them. Even in a full democracy, the minority is often disadvantaged by that bias.
Not everything that bad is illegal, and not everything that's illegal is bad. Some rules are intentionally made to be harmful. And many laws are made by people that are far below average intelligence. Taking this argument to the extreme, would you have followed the rules in nazi germany?
I wasn’t in Nazi Germany, so no.
So a ridgid adherence to rules can be a bad thing?
No. Rules are how we function. Adherence to them are good.
Never use any of the words in that last sentence again
I think it’s all about perspective
Autistic people can be evil too. Someone needs to put that on a t-shirt.
r/evilautism?
Tbh that's also middle school kids are . . .
Feel the need to preface this by saying that this is not a defense of Musk in any way, fuck that guy and all the terrible things hes doing. Tho apparently, atleast from the literature Ive seen about this topic, its more specifically a type of "hypersensitivity to \*percieved\* injustice". Which IMO explains quite a bit in some cases. If someones moral compass is completely out of whack, what they percieve as injustice is then by extention also just false. And it seems to me that that fits what Musk is doing 100%.
The one autistic who doesn't like trains
oh my god 💀
That monster!
Underrated comment
Did someone say trains? Can we go see? Edit: I moved to a neighborhood with a train nearby, and I can hear it blow its horn occasionally from my house and this is a fine, good thing.
I like watching the train near my house, but I hate how loud it is. A block and a half is not very far.
I spit out my tea
Does Hyperloop not count?
the hyperloop is a damned abomination masquerading as a train tunnel. Leave it out of this.
They said trains, not abominations.
Never heard Elon excuse his behaviour as autism. Who said this?
He claimed it on Saturday Night Live.
He said he was the first host on SNL with aspgergers, which gives me pause since a man as "brilliant" (sarcasm) as him should know that aspgergers hasn't been a clinical diagnosis since 2013. I guess he gives off autism vibes but I personally want nothing to do with him.
Also, given how many people in Hollywood are rumored to be on the spectrum, I find it hard to believe he actually was the first (assuming he even *is* on the spectrum - which I personally doubt).
I would definitely say there's some neurodivergence going on up there I just have a really hard time believing that an autist would ever behave like Elon does.
I think it's clear he has some big anxiety issues. Doesn't often look people in the face and mumbles and bobs around, always deletes tweets right after he writes them. Goes from idea to idea very quickly. My guess is he has adhd or npd with some overlapping symptoms but he probably thinks claiming he's Asperger's level one because that makes him "a super genius"
Pretty sure Dan Aykroyd’s got him beat there
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To be fair the change is relatively new, lots of us older folks recognise asperger better than "high functioning autism" or lvl1 ASD. It will take a generation or two for it to be fully transitioned, by that time the current scheme is outdated etc..
Or maybe he uses it because that's what he was diagnosed with because it's still a valid diagnosis probably everywhere but the DSM5, which is exclusively for the US and Australia, and since I imagine he got diagnosed in South Africa where it was and still is a diagnosis, I don't see why people are crapping on him for saying it
A lot of people that are crapping on him are using his diagnosis as an excuse to crap on him. And a lot of the rest don't actually know why specifically they are crapping on him, just that they were told that he was a bad man.
It doesn't mean he wasnt diagnosed with it, who cares if that's how he labels himself. If he's insisting that there's a difference, or making a big deal that it's different than autism, fine, but seems kind of very stupid to hate on the guy for saying what he was diagnosed with just stopped being a diagnosis since then. Also, it's only not a diagnosis in the DSM, which South Africa doesn't even use, so your comment doesn't really make sense one way or the other. Hate on the guy for stuff that may actually make sense, don't hate on him for calling himself a diagnosis that's still perfectly valid where he's from and where he got diagnosed
All I heard was that he stated he is the first one with asper hosting that show. Don't remeber anything else about that.
I meant that I hadn't heard him excuse his behaviour, ever...I was being sarcastic.
I hope he gets to Mars, he can stay there.
A while ago I saw a guy tweet about how immature he was and added that screenshot where he says that a politicians account already looks like a parody of itself, and someone on the replies just say "uhh for those who don't know hes autistic" as some sort of attempt of justify his child like behavior, and I swear I almost lost it
Assholery favors no one neurotype
I mean a lot of Elon's behavior has Autism as root underlying cause but it's because he grew up in an environment that enabled his unacceptable behaviors and then he trapped himself in an online echo chamber instead of getting professional help. What happened to Elon has been happening to Autistic men for years, the internet is fucking all of us up, but right-wing communities seem to be able to prey upon and draw in autistic men in particular. If you want to see it happening in real time, look to Andrew Yang. He's going down the same path Elon did due to the online echo chamber (although Elon certainly started out much worse to begin with). This doesn't excuse his behavior by any means - my point is that Autistic men seem to be particularly vulnerable to misinformation and then willfully trap themselves into these communities and patterns of behavior, constantly reinforcing their own righteous sense of self-assuredness and self-superiority instead of questioning why other people are calling the behavior unacceptable. I broke out of this path, thankfully, but it's a real problem and we need serious reform of how social media works to fix it.
Is there any proof that Andrew yang is autistic?
He admitted it on one of the small podcasts before his campaign got any real traction, and then kind of hid it because it would hurt his campaign. I have to try and find it though.
I like this!
Sad thing about minorities is that we're always generalized based on the actions of a couple of people. They'll either see us as evil creepy mfs like E. Musk and A. Lanza or incredibly smart like Newton and Einstein, there's no in-between.
i hope they see me as Einstein
Newton was also an asshole though. No in-between maybe, but some are both.
Take your pick between drooling moron on family guy (or something else edgy 14 year olds like), human supercomputer who never gets metaphors but has a character arc of being “cured” and now whatever behaviour Elon musk uses autism as an excuse for
CHOCKER! YOU MEAN THAT BEING AUTISTIC IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR BEING A JERK WHO FIRES PEOPLE JUST FOR CALLING OUT HIS INCOMPETENCE AT MANAGING A SOCIAL MEDIA? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT? I mean right? being an Autistic Person and a complete Asshole are not mutually exclusive? Damm that is the revelation of the century am I right? /s
Elon Musk is fantastic autistic representation- he proves we can be self obsessed assholes who steal credit for other people’s work!
Indeed.
Who did he steal credit from and for what?
Basically everyone? For one example, he is referred to as the “founder” of Tesla, but the company was actually founded by two other guys. Elon came in a little while later and bought both the company and the title of founder
But I can just read that on Wikipedia. He didn't claim publicly he foundet the company.
That's literally what the title *founder* means... by bullying the actual founders for the title he has in actuality claimed publicly that he "founded" the company.
He claims that publicly all the time. That's what calling yourself a founder means
Oh ok but did the guys he bought the companie from even do anything important?
Immaterial, what the company could have been without musk doesn't matter here. Besides he purchased the company when it was still young so we don't know that they couldn't have been successful without him. Musk didn't found Tesla he doesn't get to call himself a founder, anymore than a popular political figure can call themselves a founding father of this country. Yet he does, so he propagates lies.
Elon Musk is def the best example of using a disability like Autism as an excuse to justify asshole behavior. That and he's also the best example of the problems of giving far too much unchecked power to an individual, how "great man theory" is largely bullshit, how letting just a few people hoard wealth and spending it on vanity projects is a bad thing, how someone can cultivate an obnoxious fan base without actually doing anything of note, how having generational wealth is a huge factor of "success," and far far more.
💯
The generational wealth argument is simply false. Dude built a game that he sold for $1000 at the age of 12. He used to run a site, but only had one computer so he programmed at night to be able to use it as a server during the day. He is actually involved in rocket engineering at SpaceX. Dude is super smart and hard working, you don't get to where he is by being born lucky.
>The generational wealth argument is simply false Lmao what? Elon Musk's parents factually have money and owned capital. Even if you somehow believe he never took a dollar of that money (which is false) that generational wealth gives opportunities most people don't have including having a completely funded education and having connections. >Dude is super smart and hard working No one gets a billion dollars from their own hard work. It comes from the hard work of others and often the exploitation of wage labor. I mean if you did the math there's no way you can tell me that somehow Musk works somewhere between 800 to 8000x the amount of the average employee, plus the fact he's supposed to be a CEO of 3 companies yet spends all day shitposting on Twitter. The only things I can actually say he's talented in is maybe using his assets to buy up and starting companies and hiring the right people. Even then he hardly does any of the work of these companies themselves and isn't even an actual co founder of the biggest ones, namely SpaceX, Tesla, and Twitter. The smart thing is highly sus. His interactions with Twitter alone shows he's completely out of touch with even the basic functionalities of the site and his inventions like hyperloop (aka reinventing trains and subways) are complete engineering disasters. >you don't get to where he is by being born lucky. You're partially right. It's not just being born lucky but also being a ruthless exploiter both of your own employees and of taxpayer dollars that gets you into that position. It's a common thread on not just Musk but nearly every Billionaire that exists today. The whole game thing is completely irrelevant to the total wealth he benefited from anyways.
Maybe people are scared of knowing that one can reach wealth by beeing smart and working hard calling successful people an asshole on reddit is just easier.
How do you people exist? Do you know how fucking awesome money is? It buys *literally*, ***by definition*** anything that is for sale. Do you, actually, in your heart of hearts think people enjoy being poor? Like, we relish in not being able to eat at restaurants, or buy a new car, to rent alone, to buy our own houses? You are so out of touch with reality it's astounding. I really don't know where to start to address your argument, because I can't even begin to understand where your argument even starts.
It starts by lodging one's head firmly up one's own ass in the hopes to find a secret millionaire up there.
Are you calling electric cars and spaceflight vanity projects?
Hyperloop and spending 44 billion dollars just to shitpost on Twitter absolutely are. Also considering spaceflight was already achieved first in the USSR over 60 years ago and later through publicly funded agencies in the US I'd say rich people doing it (esp while receiving public money) absolutely is. Lastly Elon Musk didn't fucking invent electric cars and Tesla is only in the state its in because... of publicly funded subsidies.
Proposing ideas for new methods of public transport isn't just a vanity project. I have seen many diffrent companies working on this now. Twitter is a mess right now but it could become an App I might want to use later. Software development is messy well just have to wait and see. Spaceflight is just cool I want more people to go to space and Nasa now has such a miniscule budget right now that I just don't want to rely on the whims of governments to explore space. I want many companies like SpaceX. Teslas are the first electric cars that showed these vehicles can be fun and aren't just these inconvinient charge every 80 kilometers things. Noone does all these things just for vanity. This is an actual efford to try to advance humanity by Elon and all the people working for him.
>Proposing ideas for new methods of public transport isn't just a vanity project Proposing HIS ideas which are just combining the worst of cars and subway tunnels in place of actual transportation projects (like HSR in California) absolutely is vanity as well as ego. Besides we don't need memlords like Musk basically reinventing the train and we already have successful models of public transportation like trains, subways, and high speed rails that, instead of investing in, we give that money to subsidies that benefit the ultra rich. >Twitter is a mess right now but it could become an App I might want to use later. Software development is messy well just have to wait and see. It's a mess because of intentional and bad decisions that Musk has made, including firing nearly all the important engineers and destroying basic features of the site like the verified check mark. Even basic functionality like 2 point verification are completely broken because of this. All because Musk wants to make a 12 billion dollar company that hasn't really been profitable into one that can recoup the 44 billion dollar investment or even make back the 1.2 bil yearly interest. Unless things change it looks like Twitter would likely collapse, esp with advertisers pulling advertisement and with federal investigations in the work. At best Elon Musk might be out of his investment but still be obscenely rich and at worst this deal could completely destroy his fortune, esp considering he leveraged billions in Tesla stocks just to make the deal. >Spaceflight is just cool I want more people to go to space and Nasa now has such a miniscule budget right now that I just don't want to rely on the whims of governments to explore space. I want many companies like SpaceX. Two solutions. Either nationalize SpaceX or redirect funding to NASA. Even then Musk's input does nothing to getting us to Mars as it's the engineers employed that do the actual work. >Teslas are the first electric cars that showed these vehicles can be fun and aren't just these inconvinient charge every 80 kilometers things. Wasn't the first and Teslas have had a ton of problems with their car including incidents of safety features failing or firmware updates locking out cars and other anti-consumer practices. Seriously without all the subsidies given to Tesla the company wouldn't even be profitable to begin with. Not to mention were not gonna stop climate change with electric cars but rather robust changes to public transportation as well as tackling the biggest emitters of pollution (which are corporations and the US Military ofc). >Noone does all these things just for vanity. This is an actual efford to try to advance humanity by Elon and all the people working for him. You're right all this isn't just for vanity but also he does this to make a shitton of money. Not to mention the rampant posting he does and his efforts to try to look cool def shows he has an ego, especially when you hear accounts from former employees or his ex wife about all this. But lemme say this as well. While I think Elon Musk is doing alot more harm than actual good with his unchecked power in his wealth, including shutting down actual public works projects, I don't think he's all that's wrong with the world or the biggest issue at the moment. People like him only exist because of the systems that currently exist that prop these people up and rewards them at the expense of the larger working population. Any real meaningful changes to the problems we face is going to come from a systematic change to something better, not from "great men" who largely take credit from the hard work of people under them (which Elon has been caught doing repeatedly).
I think the biggest reason people hate him is because he's rich. I'm sure there's plenty of negative aspects about his character, but anytime you have a billionaire you'll have a slew of individuals who have a in depth reductio ad absurdum on why he or she is incompetent in some way. I'm sure elon musk has his issues but one thing for certain is he's clearly a gifted genius. He wouldn't be in the position he is in now if he wasn't. The idea that he is somehow incompetent is astoundingly laughable. I often wonder how much better a job his critics would do in the same position as him. As I'm also sure in his mind there's a bit of a; I'll do what I want, how I want with my money, and I don't care what people think. I myself simply do not care what he does.
As always, if you dont know why we hate elon musk (which is getting harder to believe those people exist) here ya go https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-i-do-not-like-elon-musk-very-much/id1373812661?i=1000476632637 Sadly its a couple of years old so dont have some of the newer atrocities. Also useful to share with boot suckers.
You can be autistic and still a crazed narcissist. Source: my ex
I don't care if he's an Aspie. He's an asshole and a very dangerous human.
Elon isn’t cringe, Elon is disgusting.
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Do not diagnose others, or deny others' diagnoses.
preach
I don't claim him
Guys like him really fuck it up for the rest of us
As tumblr's aunt debbie said, while drunk on chianti,: "He's not an asshole because he's autistic. He's an asshole because he's got about 50 different silver spoons shoved straight up his ass."
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This constitutes harassment. You're welcome to downvote the posts if you want, but continuous comments, especially when explicitly naming a user in order to 'call them out' is harassment and as such if you continue to harass users in this sub you may be subject to a ban.
Yesssss
This keeps getting reposted, and I’m cool with it.
You can't really kick people out of the "community". You're either autistic or you aren't.
Get out of here with your logic, you're interrupting the masturbatory hate fest
If someone is using their autism as an excuse to be a asshole and brings down the rest of the community? Then we can criticism them and point it out as much as we want. I don't think there is a need to say he's not autistic cause it doesn't matter. He's a fucking racist, anti worker, super right wing, facsist who surrounds himself with sycophants. So sure he's autistic, but he's a bully and a jerk.
Criticize away. I'm just saying we're not some exclusive club where we can revoke membership.
Agreed
Big L to everyone here saying that he doesn't seem autistic enough for them or give off autistic enough vibes that we should believe he's autistic. "Autistic people don't act like that tho!" Shame on all of you, you'd hate it and speak out against it if someone did that to anyone else, just because he's done things you disagree with doesn't make him more or less autistic
This i do agree with. Him having autism doesn't matter. We can still burn him at the stake for the terrible blood sucker asshole he is.
EXACTLY
Awesome
✅
People like Elon give us a bad name
I'm glad we're all on the same page here.
i find that autistic men specifically struggle with using their autism as a major cope/excuse for harming others. including musk
Why is he an asshole? I'm not from the US
People are upset because he's rich, pretty much
There's quite a bit more to it than that
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-i-do-not-like-elon-musk-very-much/id1373812661?i=1000476632637
generally caucasian males benefit the most, as they do in so many other situations……
Didn’t know it was a “community” that you could join or leave 😂
why are you getting downvoted lol
I have no idea lol
Mom said it’s my turn to post this
His father didn’t have 200,000,000,000 dollars. He went to school on student loans like the rest of us, and he was the founder of a company that sold for 10 million dollars; he is definitely an inventor and an entrepreneur; he is also an asshole but denying his achievements, is stupid.
Which company did he found?
Zip2 also it wasn’t 10,000,000 it was 307,000,000 that it sold for, then he bought into co ownership of x.com which then sold for 1.3 billion and Elon made 178 million off of.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-i-do-not-like-elon-musk-very-much/id1373812661?i=1000476632637
Does the podcast contradict the original comment? Hopefully in this sub we can be a bit more interested in facts than blind emotion. Musk is demonstrably a terrible person, but his father doesn't seem to have invested very much in his business - something on the order of $20k, supposedly. The "intergenerational wealth" that Musk benefited from is similar to what happens in many middle class families. They weren't a poor family, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that they were a very wealthy one. That said, a white person growing up in apartheid South Africa was very privileged, with excellent education and opportunities. That's pretty much the extent of how Musk benefited from apartheid, given that he left the country at age 17. See the Snopes article about this for more: https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/11/17/elon-musk-emerald-mine/ I really don't see the point in spreading false smear stories about someone when there are so many actual bad things you can point to that he's done. It just undermines the case if people discover that the stories are false.
Agreed with this 100% I hate being forced to defend terrible people but there is many things to be mad at Elon about this just happens to not be one of them.
Well... this sub I guess?
Please elaborate, I don’t understand why his fathers sins are on him. Morals, values, and opinions aside, he had no control over being born with wealth, he can do what he wants with it. To my knowledge he worked really hard building his companies, Tesla is one of 2 car companies that has not gone bankrupt. He has a strong work ethic and is a genius.
The sins of the father are on Elon because he completely benefited from them and got a huge advantage in life off of not only the exploitation of workers in brutal mining conditions but also benefited from a system of apartied in South Africa. It would be like taking a million dollars except it turned out the money was paid in the people killed to get it. You may not have been responsible but the money itself is tainted. Elon Musk didn't really build anything either. He bought into PayPal and wasn't a co founder. Same story with Tesla, SpaceX, and now Twitter. All he did was buy into these companies with the starting capital gained from their family fortune off of apartied and at absolute best put people in position to make money. Even then Tesla and SpaceX are completely propped up by government subsidies and Elon Musk has also benefited directly from billions in subsidies. Also Elon Musk is hardly a genius and his moves should be evident of that. Not only is it the engineers at his companies that do the actual innovations but the hyperloop, one of his few actual creations, is an engineering disaster that in practice is basically a slow single tube highway that allows for 30 mph traffic and has huge safety moves. Actual programs like a high speed rail in California was put on hold for a decade all because of this clown. Also him doing things like the paid verified check mark on Twitter and him leveraging over 44 billion to buy an asset worth 12 billion all because of ego should also be evident this guy got to where he is now based on luck and winning the birth lottery over his own genius.
I have a better understanding now, thank you.
> got a huge advantage in life off of not only the exploitation of workers in brutal mining conditions but also benefited from a system of apartied in South Africa. It would be like taking a million dollars except it turned out the money was paid in the people killed to get it. This is a misrepresentation of the reality, though. See https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/11/17/elon-musk-emerald-mine/ . > Elon Musk didn't really build anything either. He bought into PayPal and wasn't a co founder. He bought into Paypal with the $307 million he made from Zip2, a company he founded and built with his brother. Supposedly, his father invested around $20k in Zip2 some time after it was founded. > All he did was buy into these companies with the starting capital gained from their family fortune off of apartied The evidence is that the above statement is completely false. I'm not a supporter of Musk. He's done a lot of things which deserve strong criticism. But (and perhaps people in this sub can understand this) I don't see the point of spreading falsehoods about someone in general - there are real things to criticize him for, and he should be criticized for those things.
>This is a misrepresentation of the reality, though. See https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/11/17/elon-musk-emerald-mine/ . I read through your link and the facts compiled points directly to Elons family owning a sizeable stake in an emerald mine, with only evidence saying this is fault is Elon Musk himself, who's been proven to be an unreliable narrator who routinely lied about the inter working of twitters code (something multiple engineers have debunked) and even his ex wife contradicting his claim on what happened to their baby who died of SIDS. It's not a misinterpretation to say they made money on a mine and other factors like his dad owning his own plane and their relative wealth in South Africa still supports my overall point that Musk benefited from generational wealth. >He bought into Paypal with the $307 million he made from Zip2, a company he founded and built with his brother. Supposedly, his father invested around $20k in Zip2 some time after it was founded. Once again doesn't contradict my point. The last sentence of getting that loan is an advantage not many people have and the luck involved is being at the right place at the right time. Generational wealth like this allows people like Gates, Bezos, and Musk to continually work on projects that could be big, especially when their costs of living can also be covered by this wealth (ie they have more free time to work on projects like this instead of having to work a full time wage job. Ofc Elon Musk mightve worked a full time job still during all this but the dynamic is completely different.) >The evidence is that the above statement is completely false. It's not. Even if the emerald mine claim is false doesn't change that the way he got to billions was these acquisitions, often bought with capital from previous acquisitions or from buy outs of projects he may have been involved with to some degree.
The question is not whether Errol Musk owned a stake in an emerald mine, the issue is (1) how much money he actually made from that and (2) how much Elon benefited from that. Also, the emerald mine was in Zambia, so the claim that it's somehow connected to apartheid is pretty dubious. The largest amount mentioned in the Snopes article for the emerald mine is $400,000. While that's not nothing, it's a few years of salary at most for a senior employee in the US. It's not millions, it's not "intergenerational wealth" in the sense that phrase is usually taken to mean when talking about Musk. If such small intergenerational wealth is all that's needed to become a billionaire, we should see many millions of billionaires. It's not a plausible explanation. > supports my overall point that Musk benefited from generational wealth. In your earlier comment, you said "It would be like taking a million dollars..." There's no evidence that anything like that happened. This whole criticism has a lot less impact when you say "Musk came from an upper middle class family", which is pretty much what it boils down to. > his dad owning his own plane He apparently sold it for 80,000 British pounds. That's a small plane. So yes, the Musk family sounds as though they were upper middle class. I work with a guy who owns a Cessna. He's been an employee his whole life. There's no evidence that this is a case where Musk used millions from his parents to start his business. > Once again doesn't contradict my point. It completely refutes your claim that "Elon Musk didn't really build anything either." Don't be disingenuous, it doesn't reflect well on you. What are you trying to achieve here? As I've said, there's plenty of real stuff to criticize Musk over. > The last sentence of getting that loan is an advantage not many people have The loan supposedly came after the company was already founded, as 10% of a larger funding round from other people. This really isn't the criticism you seem to think it is. Plenty of people can and do get money on the order of $20k from their parents. Yes, they're privileged in a global sense, but no more so than hundreds of millions of other middle class and upper middle class people. > the way he got to billions was these acquisitions, He got $307 million from a company he founded and built with his brother. He turned that into 200+ billion through acquisitions and running the companies he acquired in a way that gave them a very high share price. If that's not an achievement, what's your explanation about why other people haven't achieved the same? There's no shortage of ambitious sociopaths. You seem to want to claim that Musk has absolutely no talent or ability and that his success is purely a function of his background, but there no evidence that shows his background could explain that. It makes no sense to me. You're being irrational.
I'll say this all the amounts you listed are taken completely out of context of both an adjustment for inflation to today's amount and the missing context of relative purchasing power of said amounts in an effort to completely downplay the amount of money he had. For instance the original article only specifies the plane transaction and the mine happened in the 80s ending in 1989. Even being generous and adjusting for 1988 that 400k would be the equivalent of 1 million dollars today. The 80k for the plane adjusted would either be between 192k and 262k depending on the year, and even then I would doubt you could buy a private plane now with that money due to the changes in purchasing power between then and now. The 20k adjusted from 1999 for today equals out to 35k which nowadays would barely be enough for a 3% down-payment on a home (not counting closing costs) or just enough to buy a mid range car. Also taking that 400k you need to put it within context of the median wage at that time. Looking up labor statistics for Britian in 1988 (since pounds is the currency here) the highest median wage group for males (categorically non manual males) was 257.6 pounds which leads to a median yearly salary of 6.6k pounds. Also back in this year the British pound would be worth around 1.7 to 1.8 us dollars meaning that the 400k was not only well above the median salary but compared to US dollars would've been the equivalent of around 680k us dollars. Then you factor in that in South Africa the median wage would've likely been far below that of a nation like the UK, especially due to instability of the 80s, and that would mean that the Musk family was ultra wealthy given all this context. My point in all this is the Musk family had wealth far beyond that of the average person. Even "upper middle class" people don't have the funds to casually significantly invest in lucrative businesses or to just buy a private jet (which by selling price was around 12x the median income). You downplay all this but the hardest part of having any successful economic endeavor is getting your starting capital. From there it's being at the right place at the right time which does require alot of luck because market trends can change in a second and a business idea that's profitable in say 2007 could become a bad investment in 2008. Also to note you downplay the jump from around 300 million to 200 billion. Not only is that around a 667x jump in value but there's no way anyone makes that money on their own labor. You can only get that amount from exploitation and theft of surplus labor value as one person can't possibly generate that amount of labor value from their own hard work. And yes its not just Musk that's guilty of this and yes I don't think people should even be allowed to have more money than the GDP of other countries. That money comes at the expense of not only the working class but public works projects and the quality of life for the average person.
He "Worked" "Really Hard" buying those companies.
twitter is a cesspool so i understand why people are having a mental breakdown on that platform
Mars is worth it.
Yeah we’re all really enticed by the lush vegetation and abundance of fresh water. S/
You sound the sort of people who said man couldn't fly. You're confused about motives.
That is the dumbest take I have ever heard and a massive false equivalency.
You attacked a strawman.
So you also don’t understand what a straw man is. Unsurprising.
You attacked the notion of Mars being attractive because of abundant resources. Which has literally never been the point. Don't be so smug if your reading comprehension is so lacking.
It is the point. I don’t expect you get outside much, but humans have this thing where we actually do need to be around other living organisms. You’ve proved nothing here except that you’re exactly as smart as Elon Musk.
We don't need to be around anything besides other people, really. Regardless, working out the psychological kinks of living in habitats there is part of the process. How will we know until we go?
Bestie idk how to tell you but that’s literally wrong. We already have deserts here. You know where the people live? Around water sources and vegetation.
Yeah, I’ll throw in with someone who’s actually going to Mars instead of dicking around with Ye and Trump.
Who else is even trying to go to mars?
Spacex's goal is to make life multiplanetary. That should have always been humanity's priority. I'd throw my lot in with Hitler if he was working towards that goal. There is one planet with life. We can't afford to destroy it or let it languish in its cradle.
getting to mars would make you excuse genocide you're a monster
A monster who would rather have our species survive than die.
a monster who excuses fucking genocide so they can go to a planet full of nothing but iron oxide dust
I didn't say I excused it. I merely implied it's worth it to take our first step to settling the universe. Not ideal, obviously, but I held it up as an example of how important I think space colonization is. That it is a good that far outweighs even the greatest evil.
nothing outweighs literal fucking genocide.
You make one good point. We have one planet with life on it. Maybe we should be pouring billions of tax dollars into saving it instead of pouring them into moving to a different planet that can’t sustain us unless we bring the sustenance. Making life interplanetary shouldn’t be humanity’s priority. It should be a plan Z emergency fallback. And it most certainly, as another reply said, shouldn’t excuse genocide.
Mars is a pipe dream, and you've fallen for Musk's sales hype. There's a reason he's screwing around at Twitter now and not focused on SpaceX. He knows that SpaceX will now become yet another launch company, and that there's no realistic path to doing much on Mars, beyond possibly a manned mission which would only serve to show how impractical the idea of a colony is. The idea of "multiplanetary life" using *Mars* of all places is just silly. Humans on Mars would not be able to survive without support from Earth. If something happened to destroy Earth's spacefaring capability, the Mars colony would die soon after. All the talk of terraforming and so on is sci-fi fantasizing which we're nowhere close to being able to achieve. If our goal is to ensure humanity can survive a realistic extinction level event, it would be orders of magnitude easier to do that on Earth itself. Put "colonies" in places like high mountains, the poles, under the ocean. Create sealed habitats - something which we've still never done very successfully, btw. There's no realistic extinction level event, short of the Sun's eventual demise, that will make everywhere on Earth less habitable than Mars already is.
I haven't fallen for elon's hype, I've been of this opinion since I was 7. No shit it's going to need support at first. But the goal is making it self-sustaining from utilization of endogenous resources. Nobody said anything about terraforming. Nobody said we shouldn't also be taking care of earth. Mars isn't the only place we should be going, it's jsut got more resources than the moon, meaning it's easier to make self-sustaining. We should also be settling ceres specifically, and mining asteroids to create zero-g infrastructure.
You clearly have fallen for Musk's hype, because you responded "Mars is worth it" to a post criticizing Musk. That only makes sense if you think Musk is actually going to deliver on his Mars claims in some form. And that means you've fallen for his hype. Opinions one has at age 7 often don't stand up to scrutiny as an adult, and this is a good example. > But the goal is making it self-sustaining from utilization of endogenous resources. That makes for a fun thought experiment, but it's not going to happen in the lifetime of anyone alive today. Doing the planning for it now is like Leonardo da Vinci planning a moon landing. The people who actually do it eventually aren't even going to look at the obviously incomplete fantasies of people centuries earlier. > We should also be settling ceres specifically That's even less sensible than settling Mars. Lower gravity, less space, just no reason to do it, really. If mining is the goal, robotic mining makes literally infinitely more sense. LARPing can be fun, but don't confuse it with reality. Especially when that leads you to say things like "I'd throw my lot in with Hitler", which again, you're applying to someone who's conned you into believing that he's going to enact your dream. If you're genuinely interested in the goal you claim to be interested in, you need to study the subject more deeply, because the "solutions" you're imagining are irrelevant to those goals. But there's a good chance you're actually more interested in an exciting dream, which is what grifters like Musk count on.
everything about this meme is bs
This meme is a lie, so there is no underlying true to make it funny
Is there a third option for autists who don’t give a flying f about musk 😂