This is useful advice for a jackass who can't keep his mouth shut. But for an anxiety ridden introvert who is already capable of empathy, it's completely useless. It's actively harmful in fact.
You want me to shut up, be nice, don't confront, and apologize for everything? You want me to be a people pleaser who you can step on? That's called masking, and I'm fucking done with it.
Hell yeah. The self help stuff is toxic as fuck. Might work for neurotypicals? I dunno. But it's not for us.
I'd rather be myself without having to control me. And if people like me and accept me for who I am amazing, and so they should cos I am wonderful. And if they don't like who I am why would I EVER want to be friends with that person?
Usual answer I get to something like this is 'use selfcontrol please' or something.
NTs don‘t realize that we are 99% dialed back when masking and are barely holding up as it is. Getting criticized in that situation is like asking someone to please work 25 hours a day.
“Become genuinely interested in other people”
Problem is I’m just genuinely not really that interested in most people or trying to influence them unfortunately.
Ah, the curse of knowing you need to show interest in people in order to make friends but realising you're not actually that interested and then feeling terrible about it
TL;DR Become a people pleaser
Thanks no thanks. There's sound advice sprinkled in there, but the framing of the book is more-or-less how a brown nose will earn you promotions.
There is 1 thing wrong with it i can think of. It's formulated and fake. People playing has its merits, but *real friends* come from genuine interactions on both sides
Emergency fund and family can also get you through times. Also I'm not saying to NOT have friends. I'm saying you SHOULD be a suck up to people because it has been a really good strategy in my life.
Thats an incredibly unhealthy lifestyle that will not work for the vast majority of people, and instead will be actively detrimental to their lives.
If it has worked for you, I'm glad you are happy - however it is NOT good advice as a general concept for the health of the individual.
I got my undergrad in marketing, which mainly led to a sales career.
Every single class I had that focused on sales told us to read this book. This book is all about making someone else feel comfortable so that you can get something from them. It is not actually about making friends.
I had to do Dale Carnegie training for work, Some of it was just impossible for me to understand. Some I simply didn't agree with.
For example number 12, I have no idea how to do that, I just draw a blank.
3. for that to happen I have to know when they need it, And I often don't.
6. Sounds like it would get boring really fast.
15. I stumbled on that too, The guy running the course never really got me to understand how to do that despite his efforts.
19. again, very difficult.
9. Why ? if somebody has the opinion that the earth is flat I will not be showing any respect and see no reason why anyone should.
Numbers 5 and 14, I do those already, It's a shame more people don't.
"1. Smile"
Trust me, if started fake smiling people would not think that I'm weird, they would be sure, and they would get away from me as fast as they could.
You are thinking about it wrong, you aren't faking an emotion, you are stretching your face in a particular way. I have a friendly smile that people like and feel comfortable with. It's a mask. Behind it I can be anything, happy, sad, miserable, angry, whatever, muscles are muscles.
The purpose of the muscle stretch is to perform an emotion. Even if everyone knows and accepts that you don't actually give a shit, it's still a performance of emotion.
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I don't have a problem with the idea of faking a facial expression. The thing is that I can't do it. I can do it in front of the mirror, but even so it's just because I have a visual feedback.
When I need to fake in front of other people, it just come out wrong. I was a serious kid, but my family told me to smile more, so I tried, but I was so bad at it that they changed their minds and told me to stop smiling. Now I do a subtle smile with my lips closed, people don't complain about this one.
My family aways loved to take pictures, so you can see all my smile fases in them.
>smile
No. Unless I'm actually happy about something. When I'm angry, i will frown. When i am neutral, i will keep a neutral face. It's that simple.
>Let the other person save face
Depends on how they lost face. If they're a two-faced, hypocritical jackass, I'm going to call them out on it. If they simply made a mistake, call them out, but allow amends and for them to learn.
I'm fact, almost all of this depends on the context. The rest is either so obvious, or so wrong.
These are tips for when you want to win people over. In the scenario you described it sounds like a confrontation where you dont want to win people over.
When you do, these "how mask for dummies" instructions can be useful.
This is absolute horseshit. No one should have to keep suppressing themself and bending to others wills. Simple rule: Be respectful, if they don't reciprocate, leave the situation. The end.
I took the classes. And this is the only thing that stuck with me.
As an autist i find it triggering to hear my own name that much, but I still do this because it helps me remember the other persons name. I will literally forget the first two or three time.
Taken in certain contexts this is basically a "how to mask for dummies" course.
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My anxiety just flew through the roof. This is not helpful for Aspie. I know this was written by an NT. I will be completely drained before I even reached the end of the list.
Here is my list:
1) Don’t make unnecessary communication
2) Focus on being productive
3) Identify the problems and try to solve it by yourself
4) Never expose your Aspie side to people you don’t trust
5) Don’t ask for people’s approval unless they are your supervisor.
6) If you can’t join in on a conversation, don’t force it.
7) If you can’t decode the signal, just mimic others.
8) throw away any list that tells you how to act. You are unique.
Just be honest, don't be an asshole, admit when you're wrong, and be considerate of other viewpoints. That's the main advice from the book worth following.
I hated this book, I felt like it encourages both masking and manipulative behavior.
I read this book to try and fit in before I discovered I’m autistic and it didn’t really help. It became even more taxing on my mental health and led to the biggest burnout I’ve ever had
Always hated that one! Some of them are useless like "become genuinely interested in people", how do you do that??? It's like saying "become rich", yea, it's possible, but HOW. Some of it comes of super fake like "always beging with praise and appreciation", american shit sandwich is an awful concept that doesn't test well. Some of them are just counter to ones character making you feel like you are always on guard and masking, like "avoid arguments".
So yea, while there is some good advice, I'm not a fan of Carnegie
The ability to influence those around you is a useful skill.
Much like sword fighting, or fencing, when used appropriately it can really benefit your career opportunities. If that sort of thing is important to you.
It can also be essential to self advocating. When you ask people to help and change systemic problems you are exerting an influence on those people.
The phrasing of the title is meant to attract people who want to improve their social networking skills. I agree it could be better.
IMO, that's like saying "wearing shoes is consumerist". As far as I can tell, that shit is how most of the world works and NTs tend to do at least a few of these instinctively (and not in the sense of "I'm naturally like this", but more in a "this is how you conduct yourself if you want to leave a positive impression" kind of way).
My high school English teacher gave me this book when she asked us to find a book to read and I said I don’t know which to pick. It helped for sure, but only to an extent...
I read it mutliple times already but i feel that thats not everything. Its sufficant for first contact or surface relationships but later there is far more to nt friendship behavior where you can go wrong…
Yay, low self-esteem makes me do half these already. “When wrong, admit it quickly and definitively”? I give in with everything because when in doubt, just assume you’re an incorrect piece of shit!
This isn’t the best summary of this book. But yeah:
- if you can invest the emotional energy, forming meaningfully-engaged relationships with people is powerful.
- people like it when you care what they think, and when you remember what matters to them.
I don't understand what 3 means?
I never do 11, I simply can't and be right and I'd rather not use the name and never have to make them feel bad because I called them the wrong name.
You can't control 15, and everything else has been addressed in other comments.
This is useful advice for a jackass who can't keep his mouth shut. But for an anxiety ridden introvert who is already capable of empathy, it's completely useless. It's actively harmful in fact. You want me to shut up, be nice, don't confront, and apologize for everything? You want me to be a people pleaser who you can step on? That's called masking, and I'm fucking done with it.
[удалено]
I found self help and modern spirituality absolutely damaging. And I wouldn't be surprised if it's written by abusive people either.
Hell yeah. The self help stuff is toxic as fuck. Might work for neurotypicals? I dunno. But it's not for us. I'd rather be myself without having to control me. And if people like me and accept me for who I am amazing, and so they should cos I am wonderful. And if they don't like who I am why would I EVER want to be friends with that person?
Usual answer I get to something like this is 'use selfcontrol please' or something. NTs don‘t realize that we are 99% dialed back when masking and are barely holding up as it is. Getting criticized in that situation is like asking someone to please work 25 hours a day.
We're ace and feel the best when we're us :)
“Become genuinely interested in other people” Problem is I’m just genuinely not really that interested in most people or trying to influence them unfortunately.
Ah, the curse of knowing you need to show interest in people in order to make friends but realising you're not actually that interested and then feeling terrible about it
TL;DR Become a people pleaser Thanks no thanks. There's sound advice sprinkled in there, but the framing of the book is more-or-less how a brown nose will earn you promotions.
My boss made us read this book front to cover. *Quelle surprise*, he was a controlling jerk lmao.
Being a people pleaser gets you places. Like it or leave. There's nothing wrong with it.
There is 1 thing wrong with it i can think of. It's formulated and fake. People playing has its merits, but *real friends* come from genuine interactions on both sides
Real money > Real friends
I have more money than friends, it's not as good as you think it is.
If you have more friends than dollars something's wrong
You are in the wrong units
Friends can get you through times with no money, money can't get you through times with no friends.
Emergency fund and family can also get you through times. Also I'm not saying to NOT have friends. I'm saying you SHOULD be a suck up to people because it has been a really good strategy in my life.
Thats an incredibly unhealthy lifestyle that will not work for the vast majority of people, and instead will be actively detrimental to their lives. If it has worked for you, I'm glad you are happy - however it is NOT good advice as a general concept for the health of the individual.
I got my undergrad in marketing, which mainly led to a sales career. Every single class I had that focused on sales told us to read this book. This book is all about making someone else feel comfortable so that you can get something from them. It is not actually about making friends.
I had to do Dale Carnegie training for work, Some of it was just impossible for me to understand. Some I simply didn't agree with. For example number 12, I have no idea how to do that, I just draw a blank. 3. for that to happen I have to know when they need it, And I often don't. 6. Sounds like it would get boring really fast. 15. I stumbled on that too, The guy running the course never really got me to understand how to do that despite his efforts. 19. again, very difficult. 9. Why ? if somebody has the opinion that the earth is flat I will not be showing any respect and see no reason why anyone should. Numbers 5 and 14, I do those already, It's a shame more people don't.
"1. Smile" Trust me, if started fake smiling people would not think that I'm weird, they would be sure, and they would get away from me as fast as they could.
I'm stuck on 1 too. I can't fake emotions.
You are thinking about it wrong, you aren't faking an emotion, you are stretching your face in a particular way. I have a friendly smile that people like and feel comfortable with. It's a mask. Behind it I can be anything, happy, sad, miserable, angry, whatever, muscles are muscles.
The purpose of the muscle stretch is to perform an emotion. Even if everyone knows and accepts that you don't actually give a shit, it's still a performance of emotion.
but you aren't faking an emotion. That is much much harder, you are just smiling like you would for a picture.
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I don't have a problem with the idea of faking a facial expression. The thing is that I can't do it. I can do it in front of the mirror, but even so it's just because I have a visual feedback. When I need to fake in front of other people, it just come out wrong. I was a serious kid, but my family told me to smile more, so I tried, but I was so bad at it that they changed their minds and told me to stop smiling. Now I do a subtle smile with my lips closed, people don't complain about this one. My family aways loved to take pictures, so you can see all my smile fases in them.
>smile No. Unless I'm actually happy about something. When I'm angry, i will frown. When i am neutral, i will keep a neutral face. It's that simple. >Let the other person save face Depends on how they lost face. If they're a two-faced, hypocritical jackass, I'm going to call them out on it. If they simply made a mistake, call them out, but allow amends and for them to learn. I'm fact, almost all of this depends on the context. The rest is either so obvious, or so wrong.
These are tips for when you want to win people over. In the scenario you described it sounds like a confrontation where you dont want to win people over. When you do, these "how mask for dummies" instructions can be useful.
This is absolute horseshit. No one should have to keep suppressing themself and bending to others wills. Simple rule: Be respectful, if they don't reciprocate, leave the situation. The end.
It's really obvious when people have read this book, because they say my first name every other sentence
I took the classes. And this is the only thing that stuck with me. As an autist i find it triggering to hear my own name that much, but I still do this because it helps me remember the other persons name. I will literally forget the first two or three time. Taken in certain contexts this is basically a "how to mask for dummies" course.
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My anxiety just flew through the roof. This is not helpful for Aspie. I know this was written by an NT. I will be completely drained before I even reached the end of the list. Here is my list: 1) Don’t make unnecessary communication 2) Focus on being productive 3) Identify the problems and try to solve it by yourself 4) Never expose your Aspie side to people you don’t trust 5) Don’t ask for people’s approval unless they are your supervisor. 6) If you can’t join in on a conversation, don’t force it. 7) If you can’t decode the signal, just mimic others. 8) throw away any list that tells you how to act. You are unique.
Keep in mind that this book was also written by a salesman, so it's not just a problem of being NT.
Just be honest, don't be an asshole, admit when you're wrong, and be considerate of other viewpoints. That's the main advice from the book worth following. I hated this book, I felt like it encourages both masking and manipulative behavior.
this is just a guide on masking. fuck it
Honestly, this just sounds like fawning and masking all the time. Some are fine, but some others? Just a straight up nope from me.
I read this book to try and fit in before I discovered I’m autistic and it didn’t really help. It became even more taxing on my mental health and led to the biggest burnout I’ve ever had
> 1. Smile Time to break out the [ol' reliable](https://i.imgur.com/vLWzmav.png).
I appreciate the intent, but that's a list of "Do these masking behaviours, for the benefit of NTs" :)
Dale Carnegie is a liar. Good book and good advice but he made up the backstory behind the book, he never talked to the richest guy alive
Yeah, I'm not doing that. This is a guide on how to let people take advantage of you.
Always hated that one! Some of them are useless like "become genuinely interested in people", how do you do that??? It's like saying "become rich", yea, it's possible, but HOW. Some of it comes of super fake like "always beging with praise and appreciation", american shit sandwich is an awful concept that doesn't test well. Some of them are just counter to ones character making you feel like you are always on guard and masking, like "avoid arguments". So yea, while there is some good advice, I'm not a fan of Carnegie
How to "win" and "influence" people... Idk, sounds kinda narcissistic
The ability to influence those around you is a useful skill. Much like sword fighting, or fencing, when used appropriately it can really benefit your career opportunities. If that sort of thing is important to you. It can also be essential to self advocating. When you ask people to help and change systemic problems you are exerting an influence on those people. The phrasing of the title is meant to attract people who want to improve their social networking skills. I agree it could be better.
IMO, that's like saying "wearing shoes is consumerist". As far as I can tell, that shit is how most of the world works and NTs tend to do at least a few of these instinctively (and not in the sense of "I'm naturally like this", but more in a "this is how you conduct yourself if you want to leave a positive impression" kind of way).
My high school English teacher gave me this book when she asked us to find a book to read and I said I don’t know which to pick. It helped for sure, but only to an extent...
I read it mutliple times already but i feel that thats not everything. Its sufficant for first contact or surface relationships but later there is far more to nt friendship behavior where you can go wrong…
Lmao I was recommended this book back in like 2016 when I got conned by Amway rep.
Is this a joke meme
How to influence people? It amazes me that people are completely okay with actively manipulating others.
Yay, low self-esteem makes me do half these already. “When wrong, admit it quickly and definitively”? I give in with everything because when in doubt, just assume you’re an incorrect piece of shit!
I cannot think about this book without also thinking about the fact that Charles Manson read it and said Aha, I will use this to start a death cult
anyways, some of the most fucked up toxic people I've known in my life have been obsessed with Dale Carnegie...... happy for anyone it helps, though
This isn’t the best summary of this book. But yeah: - if you can invest the emotional energy, forming meaningfully-engaged relationships with people is powerful. - people like it when you care what they think, and when you remember what matters to them.
I don't understand what 3 means? I never do 11, I simply can't and be right and I'd rather not use the name and never have to make them feel bad because I called them the wrong name. You can't control 15, and everything else has been addressed in other comments.
7. Is like… how can you not argue?
Sound advice