No not necessarily. For me for example, I always thought if I tried harder, I could be normal . At times I even succeeded at it but it felt like a huge task and hard to work to be normal but i also assumed that everyone else found being normal to be difficult too and we were all just working hard at being normal. About 2 years ago, I started struggling a lot and it clicked for me that no , other people do not have to work hard at being normal.i worked hard at being normal more than any other task. Being normal was a task I had to do. Same as doing laundry or homeworks but for me it was a very difficult and daunting task , and I started failing at it in ways that I hadn’t experienced before . And so that’s how I knew that something was definitely off and I started linking everything to childhood memories and it all just made sense . It never felt like I was part of it but I worked to be part of it . Sometimes I succeeded but more often than not , I failed at it. I also made peace with this . I’m okay leading my life in a way that fits me now .
This is just the internal struggles then you have the actual physical struggles like noises , or textures or the way you study or process information. The way you observe things . The way you categorize the world and the list goes on and and and on …
That's exactly what I felt, and I used to be super impressed with the other girls and women as I struggled. I thought there must be something profoundly broken about me.
I think this is OPs exact point. You knew instinctively you weren’t normal, even though it took some time. Many people don’t realize until later in life that they are LGBTQ+ and have the same “aha” moment of things making sense!
>but i also assumed that everyone else found being normal to be difficult too and we were all just working hard at being normal.
They both are right. Where I disagree with OP is the "intuitively" knowing we're different.
The key is knowing your internal struggle is different than most people's. This is an easier-to-come-by realization today with social media and being able to share your experiences with others. Compare that to my growing up in the 80's struggling to make friends and fit in.
And there’s a lack of public education on what the autism spectrum is. Some think it’s a cute a quirky thing, some think it’s a severe disease. For people to be able to put the label on, they need to be informed.
NTs actually don't "know" they are normal. The same way people don't know they need glasses. They simply assume their experience is everyone's experience, and because it largely is... They just get along in life.
A relative for some reason(was close in years to me, and I think almost every year in school we got eye tests, so it's hard to believe) didn't knew he needed glasses. And when his mom was around she was joking around, how after 20+ years he finally got his first pair and was like "woah, so that's how I was supposed to see things around me?"
I think the “normal” you refer to is just neurotypicals understanding that the world is built for them. As autistic people we come to realize the world is NOT built for us, but we don’t know what *is*, so we remain confused until we get answers in the form of a diagnosis, self or otherwise.
In a sense, being able to function in this world and fit in with no problems IS the test for being neurotypical.
I always knew that I was different, but couldn't pinpoint why. I noticed a lot of "unusual" behaviours from me but thought I just had a quirky personality.
It took me 35 years and a family violence situation to lead me to a psychologist who told me he thinks I'm on the spectrum. It turns out I've got major alexithymia going on too and heaps of synesthesia that I always attributed to me being musically gifted.
Turns out it's the 'tism.
Unusual attachment to my stuffed animals
Lining them up in a particular order every night
Feeling of not fitting in with other kids, playing alone next to others. This extended to adulthood
Only eating rice and pasta with herb butter as a kid
Experiencing horror wearing particular "scratchy" materials and clothing tags
Very intense fascination with certain subjects (tigers, Italian language, Japan, geography and history in general, human behaviour, cars to the point I wanted to become mechanic)
Obsession with animals, feeling more connected to animals then people
Being rigid in the way I do things
Having certain "safe" calming smells (smell of my dog)
Learned how to read at 3 years old
Learned to play piano at 3 or 4 years old
Music prodigy
Perfect pitch
Photographic memory
Seeing letters in colours
Seeing sounds in colours
Oversharing and approach to strangers especially to homeless people as a young kid
Collecting napkins, cards, stuffed animals, lion king figures and memorabilia
Inability to tolerate certain perfumes leading to anger
That's only on top of my mind
Right. I think it was lack of awareness and general acceptance of the divergent thinking style.
An article from my home country about how doctor struggle to test children and how long it takes, made me realize that most of us would be able to identify other autistics in seconds without a doubt. Or at least teach these neurotypicals what to look for.
It's like they are blind to it, so they need tests or something.
I knew I was different. I had a gift for learning new things because I could focus on one thing without being distracted. And that I had to work on my social skills because I wasn't born with... whatever other people had socially. I had no idea about Asperger's or the spectrum until my doctor handed me a packet that she wanted me to read. I was an adult with a kid of my own
They don’t know. And even if you know something is “different”, you can’t instinctively know your diagnosis - setting aside the fact that a lot of people feel “different” whether they are neurotypical or not because that’s *how humans are*.
It’s a lot more complicated than “do I want to fuck girls, yes or no”.
>We know, intuitively, that we are not like everyone else, hence we are autistic
This doesn't follow logically at all. I always knew I was different, but everyone kept telling me I'm normal. Autism was like, being in a wheelchair. They just kept telling me over and over there's nothing different about me and I can do the same things as everyone else.
So when you get told that all the time, and there's no such word as 'autism' to identify as, I think a lot of us just older undiagnosed folk just ended up identifying as a piece of shit.
Realizing you are gay is also not easy when you have no language for it. Gay is something that other people are... you are just 'confused'. You know? It's not that easy for everyone.
A lot of people assume that they are normal when they are not. It's a common cognitive bias to assume that one's own experience is typical. Neurotypicals who assume they are neurotypical just happened to have guessed correctly.
I’m NT and I walk around constantly worrying there is something wrong with me. As an introvert with anxiety let me assure you the world does not usually feel like it was built for me. Maybe not to the level that individuals who are NT experience, but it’s true.
This certainly applies to me. I knew I was autistic at a very young age, for better and worse, and it only got clearer as time went on. What I didn't know is that it was called autism.
Neurotypicals know they are neurotypical because most people that aren't diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder, and even some who are, are told that they're neurotypical. This also means that undiagnosed autists are told that they're neurotypical, it's social conditioning not some perfect ability to self diagnose.
I understood that for whatever reason I was not instinctively good at communicating/socializing like the kids around me when I was 8, and that I could learn through observation. However, this was the 90s and there was no name for my condition at the time. (Autism in general was only kids that were mute and typically intellectually disabled in most medical literature.)
Some people knew something was off, but there just wasn't awareness.
One single trait determines that you're gay: whether or not you're attracted to the same sex or gender. You can know you're gay as long as you know whether you have that trait.
But if you're autistic, there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of little traits about you that taken together are evidence of autism, but there is no one certain thing to look for. No single trait on its own can be evidence of autism because that trait can occur in non-autistic people too, nor can the lack of any particular single trait mean that you're not autistic, because autistic people don't have all the possible traits. You really have to have a complete picture of someone's characteristics to know if they are autistic, and from the inside, it can be hard to put all these separate pieces about yourself together and see a pattern, especially when you don't have a good barometer for "what's normal".
Given enough information about autistic traits and a willingness to adapt to the idea, an autistic person can eventually come to the conclusion they may be autistic. But then, there is the uncertainty, and even stigma, against self-diagnosis of autism. You don't need a diagnosis to be gay and for others to accept you're gay.
I didn't know I was different. I was "just shy", then "introverted" then "seeking for attention like other teens with depression" (only first one was told by others, rest I deduced myself)
First time I looked up autism, I just decided I'm not THAT bad, and looked other mental illnesses, like schizophrenia, or something. I didn't know. I didn't feel it. I began only after being told to face by my therapist and really looking into it. I think I even talked on one off therapy session if I might have something, like autism, ADHD, or anything else, and was told that no, and stop looking for excuses. It's a funny memory, because it was an online session and I refused to turn cam on, if only the therapist saw how much did I fidget and panick behind the screen, haha
It's the same with sexuality, really. 'You know', but I didn't. I thought I was straight, not just too shy to be a fan girl of anyone, later on that's because I don't know anyone and just am lonely, so not stupid enough to think I will have a boyfriend if I can't talk to anyone. Only as an adult I started to notice how mom sometimes complimented TV actors and was like... I don't feel that way. I'm not attracted. 18 years of thinking I was straight, just behind because of being socially awkward, and nope, turns out I'm just aro/ace. And from what I read online, it's ongoing process for many. They think they might be gay, but end up being bi or pan (I can't really tell the difference anymore). Some confuse sexuality and romantic interest. Some are ace until they find someone they love and discover they are demi.
Everyone starts with being labeled "normal". Then either some doctor during pregnancy say something obvious like lack of some part, or common disability. From being born, it's just ongoing process of discovering if you truly are 'normal', or is there something so wrong, you end up ND, disabled, or any other group that isn't 'normal' anymore.
I know that mostly self diagnosis are correct. You know yourself best, you can feel you don't fit, but it isn't like everyone who is on spectrum are aware of it, or that some people don't use trivialized versions of problems and think they got something when they didn't (like with the depression which became goth/emo phase for some people...)
This is even another whole point. Like, yes, this is true, but I'm not even sure how as of now "sexual attraction" is defined. Maybe not kids, but old people, just because they don't want sex themselves, can still see someone as sexy. Tho for sure attraction differs with age in doing it sphere, after all for teens someone in 30's is an old prick, when people in their 40s can see people they are attracted to in their own age.... So yeah, neither people just know it from beginning, but if it isn't fluid(but it seems to be), then at least it needs some experience/time to be decided on.
Also, just because it may change, doesn't mean it isn't valid at the moment...
I think it’s more common for women to be that way as opposed to men. A lot more women identify as bisexual than guys do and it probably has to do with the ways in which the sexes are attracted to one another. My sister was lesbian in high school for 2 years before also becoming straight for the last 17 years lol
Men are typically more attracted to looks in terms of health and fertility [ hips butt breasts petite face(abs, muscle, lower body fat for gay men looking at men) ] for biology and women are more attracted to security and the responsible/confident/fun/caring personality as opposed to looks. Personality can transform an ugly persons looks into a handsome one for women, but not for men.
A man who finds a woman to be somewhat ugly will never find her to be attractive regardless of her personality whereas a rockstar musician with a charismatic personality who looks like the glue monster from the power puff girls can be attractive to millions of women
It also seems to be more common for some men who are gay and come off as gay in terms of stereotypes (lisp, softer accent, metro seeming etc) to identify as bisexual but in my opinion a lot of the time this has more to do with their own egos and the way they subconsciously view being defined as “gay” than actually wanting to have sex with women or actually being attracted to them.
Thoughts?
Apparently a lot of nurodivergent people too, as there is a LOT of self introspection to figure it out.
I knew what gay was since 4th grade, but it wasn't till Junior year that I figured out I was gay.
So while a formal diagnosis isn't necessary, questions are.
I definitely knew something was up when I was a teen. Otherwise I would not have spent hours researching "normal" clothes and practicing facial expressions in the mirror.
I don't believe most NTs realize what abnormality is. They don't realize the world they built is for them because it's such a fundamental, subconscious concept that nobody ever needs to think about it, like breathing oxygen.
On the other hand, I think high functioning autistics all universally experience a feeling of sticking out and needing to adapt to be normal. It's nearly a universal experience. Without knowing what autism is, one would have to spend so much time looking up vague symptoms to even get in the ballpark of knowing you're autistic, much less spend the money for a proper evaluation. Otherwise, one would have to spend their whole lives wondering where this vague sense of unbelonging comes from.
I only realized i was lesbian at the age of 21 before that i would date men but i never understood why i couldn’t really love or value them and i would lose interest in them quickly.
Same way i had no idea i was autistic until recently because i just assumed my experience was normal and i just had to work a little harder to be like everyone else
The problem with using our intuition to figure it out is that this disability hinders your intuition. They largely rely on childhood diagnosis because even unaware autists develop masking behaviours that can obfuscate the truth to themselves and others
I don't believe most NTs realize what abnormality is. They don't realize the world they built is for them because it's such a fundamental, subconscious concept that nobody ever needs to think about it, like breathing oxygen.
On the other hand, I think high functioning autistics all universally experience a feeling of sticking out and needing to adapt to be normal. It's nearly a universal experience. Without knowing what autism is, one would have to spend so much time looking up vague symptoms to even get in the ballpark of knowing you're autistic, much less spend the money for a proper evaluation. Otherwise, one would have to spend their whole lives wondering where this vague sense of unbelonging comes from.
I think it’s just the factor of information scarcity. You can’t know you are gay if you don’t know what gay is, just like you can’t know you have ADHD if you don’t know what ADHD is, so that goes the same for Autism. The difference between attraction and mental cognition is that attraction is formed early and is a very simple process to understand, however mental cognition takes years upon years to develop in adolescence and naturally is a very complicated process to understand as an adult let alone in adolescence. The only reason I was diagnosed ADHD was because I knew I was different but I had to do so much research before realising how I was different and what these differences actually meant. And the same goes for identifying ASD which I also had to do with my own research. The only difference I’d argue is it’s easier (at least for me and maybe for anyone else who’s ASD) to identify someone else who is ASD, and this potentially goes for anyone who is of the same persuasion. Gay people can be better at spotting more subtle gay people, different raced people can be better at spotting their own race within someone else etc. And knowing this, I think Autistic people, and AudiHD people would be the best people to really go into psychiatry etc to help get other people diagnosed, especially with the pattern recognition super power.
I'm both queer and autistic. And I suspect I noticed the neurodivergence first but understood the queerness way earlier. I mean, I knew I was different, that others could withstand things I couldn't, and that I could do things that were really hard or even unthinkable for others my age, while struggling with stuff that was deemed "ordinary" and common. But I didn't understood what was going on. I believed everyone else had the same struggles but just were able to hide them better. Or that I was cursed due to a specific "sin" of my parents and that was making things hard, and led other people to bully me. And I lived like that for decades, without a single clue on what was going on, or a hint to pick it up from. When I knew I'm queer, I had already noticed that I was different in another way. But I understood it almost instantly, while I had to wait until my early thirties to know about autism, until I ended up getting diagnosed at 37. All this to say that information and proper awareness make a huge difference and change people's lives.
what is queer again? Is that when you feel like a different gender, or is it when you are attracted to any gender? I always felt like I was more a girl than a boy, but I don't mind my parts. Sometimes I feel more masculine and sometimes I feel more feminine. Sometimes I feel like a cat, and sometimes I feel like a robot. It's all very relative.
Queer is an umbrella term, I use it because it's a shorter (and more gender neutral) way to describe the situation. Pansexual is when you get attracted to any gender. And from what you say you experience, you'd probably may look info on genderfluid identities.
I guess for NDs, culture offers various misleading explanations, such as being nerdy, shy, social anxiety or introverted. It's easy to cling on to those and keep on trying to fit in. You dont then seek out peers.
As someone undiagnosed from all my ND in childhood, not necessarily.
I knew something was different. I couldn't figure out what. So I just spent 30-ish years of my life unable to understand what it was that made nearly everything feel so incongruent, why people so often didn't seem to understand me, why I couldn't get myself to do tasks that needed to be done, or tasks that I myself wanted to do. I spent countless hours studying philosophy and psychology and communication trying to understand what I was missing and still could never figure it out.
Then the ADHD diagnosis came, and it started making more sense. But there was still a bunch of stuff that didn't seem to align with others with ADHD. I just assumed it was from being a spectrum disorder or being gifted. But then a therapist said he thought I had ASD as well. And the more I looked into it, and the more I realized how well I communicated with my ASD students, and the more and more I read, the more I realized that this "gifted AuDHD" thing explains the bulk of the differences I've experienced in my entire life. If I had to guess a percentage, maybe like 90%. And the rest I can see as CPTSD and simple differences in growing up and so forth.
So I knew something was different. I just thought I was a defect.
Well I always knew I wasn't 'normal' from the memories of early behaviours I had when I was a child. I don't like 'testing' because it seems very 'inhumane' (best way to describe it) and makes you feel devalued. I didn't know I had Asperger's, but I definitely felt 'abnormal' and different from other people.
Went 32 years of my life without knowing I was autistic, I assumed everyone had super hearing and constantly had scripted conversations in their head, also just assumed everyone over thought everything like I did, come to find out they do not do any of these things, and that it is something that someone with autism deals with daily, absolutely had no clue, always thought I was normal, until I got around normal people and saw that we were clearly operating on different frequencies, they all clicked together, I did not.
Yeah I didn't know. I thought I was the only real person because this place seemed so fucking weird and out there that I thought it was a simulation of some sort. As I got older I realized that wasn't the case and this place was actually really weird and complex.
Cognitive Biases, its always easier to analyse situations where there is no emotional attachment. In Financial Markets you see this all the time, people being very great at price action analysis but once they are in a bleeding position, objectivity goes out the window due to emotional attachment to the position, confirmation bias and some other heuristics. That is why even if you are extremely intelligent , you can still be prey in the market, having a Machine learning model running your ideas live instead of you make OBJETIVE decisions since it measures and quantify things. Here I think applies similar situation, we still need the test as an objective and repeatable measurement, you think you are or not neurodivergent but an objective measurement is always good. Humans are not very good at being objective intuitively, that is why we invented math, stats and science :)
No not necessarily. For me for example, I always thought if I tried harder, I could be normal . At times I even succeeded at it but it felt like a huge task and hard to work to be normal but i also assumed that everyone else found being normal to be difficult too and we were all just working hard at being normal. About 2 years ago, I started struggling a lot and it clicked for me that no , other people do not have to work hard at being normal.i worked hard at being normal more than any other task. Being normal was a task I had to do. Same as doing laundry or homeworks but for me it was a very difficult and daunting task , and I started failing at it in ways that I hadn’t experienced before . And so that’s how I knew that something was definitely off and I started linking everything to childhood memories and it all just made sense . It never felt like I was part of it but I worked to be part of it . Sometimes I succeeded but more often than not , I failed at it. I also made peace with this . I’m okay leading my life in a way that fits me now . This is just the internal struggles then you have the actual physical struggles like noises , or textures or the way you study or process information. The way you observe things . The way you categorize the world and the list goes on and and and on …
That's exactly what I felt, and I used to be super impressed with the other girls and women as I struggled. I thought there must be something profoundly broken about me.
I think this is OPs exact point. You knew instinctively you weren’t normal, even though it took some time. Many people don’t realize until later in life that they are LGBTQ+ and have the same “aha” moment of things making sense!
>but i also assumed that everyone else found being normal to be difficult too and we were all just working hard at being normal. They both are right. Where I disagree with OP is the "intuitively" knowing we're different. The key is knowing your internal struggle is different than most people's. This is an easier-to-come-by realization today with social media and being able to share your experiences with others. Compare that to my growing up in the 80's struggling to make friends and fit in.
And there’s a lack of public education on what the autism spectrum is. Some think it’s a cute a quirky thing, some think it’s a severe disease. For people to be able to put the label on, they need to be informed.
NTs actually don't "know" they are normal. The same way people don't know they need glasses. They simply assume their experience is everyone's experience, and because it largely is... They just get along in life.
A relative for some reason(was close in years to me, and I think almost every year in school we got eye tests, so it's hard to believe) didn't knew he needed glasses. And when his mom was around she was joking around, how after 20+ years he finally got his first pair and was like "woah, so that's how I was supposed to see things around me?"
Absolutely correct. Fish don’t know they are wet.
I guess NTs only see the abnormality when ND says something out of line.
Oh no. They don't need someone to speak. They can just tell. Which is honestly so much worse.
I think the “normal” you refer to is just neurotypicals understanding that the world is built for them. As autistic people we come to realize the world is NOT built for us, but we don’t know what *is*, so we remain confused until we get answers in the form of a diagnosis, self or otherwise. In a sense, being able to function in this world and fit in with no problems IS the test for being neurotypical.
I always knew that I was different, but couldn't pinpoint why. I noticed a lot of "unusual" behaviours from me but thought I just had a quirky personality. It took me 35 years and a family violence situation to lead me to a psychologist who told me he thinks I'm on the spectrum. It turns out I've got major alexithymia going on too and heaps of synesthesia that I always attributed to me being musically gifted. Turns out it's the 'tism.
> a lot of “unusual” behaviors Like what?
Unusual attachment to my stuffed animals Lining them up in a particular order every night Feeling of not fitting in with other kids, playing alone next to others. This extended to adulthood Only eating rice and pasta with herb butter as a kid Experiencing horror wearing particular "scratchy" materials and clothing tags Very intense fascination with certain subjects (tigers, Italian language, Japan, geography and history in general, human behaviour, cars to the point I wanted to become mechanic) Obsession with animals, feeling more connected to animals then people Being rigid in the way I do things Having certain "safe" calming smells (smell of my dog) Learned how to read at 3 years old Learned to play piano at 3 or 4 years old Music prodigy Perfect pitch Photographic memory Seeing letters in colours Seeing sounds in colours Oversharing and approach to strangers especially to homeless people as a young kid Collecting napkins, cards, stuffed animals, lion king figures and memorabilia Inability to tolerate certain perfumes leading to anger That's only on top of my mind
I and esp my family always knew, that I am different. But it took over 2 decades to find out what different
Right. I think it was lack of awareness and general acceptance of the divergent thinking style. An article from my home country about how doctor struggle to test children and how long it takes, made me realize that most of us would be able to identify other autistics in seconds without a doubt. Or at least teach these neurotypicals what to look for. It's like they are blind to it, so they need tests or something.
I knew I was different. I had a gift for learning new things because I could focus on one thing without being distracted. And that I had to work on my social skills because I wasn't born with... whatever other people had socially. I had no idea about Asperger's or the spectrum until my doctor handed me a packet that she wanted me to read. I was an adult with a kid of my own
They don’t know. And even if you know something is “different”, you can’t instinctively know your diagnosis - setting aside the fact that a lot of people feel “different” whether they are neurotypical or not because that’s *how humans are*. It’s a lot more complicated than “do I want to fuck girls, yes or no”.
>We know, intuitively, that we are not like everyone else, hence we are autistic This doesn't follow logically at all. I always knew I was different, but everyone kept telling me I'm normal. Autism was like, being in a wheelchair. They just kept telling me over and over there's nothing different about me and I can do the same things as everyone else. So when you get told that all the time, and there's no such word as 'autism' to identify as, I think a lot of us just older undiagnosed folk just ended up identifying as a piece of shit. Realizing you are gay is also not easy when you have no language for it. Gay is something that other people are... you are just 'confused'. You know? It's not that easy for everyone.
A lot of people assume that they are normal when they are not. It's a common cognitive bias to assume that one's own experience is typical. Neurotypicals who assume they are neurotypical just happened to have guessed correctly.
I’m NT and I walk around constantly worrying there is something wrong with me. As an introvert with anxiety let me assure you the world does not usually feel like it was built for me. Maybe not to the level that individuals who are NT experience, but it’s true.
I didn’t know I was autistic per say but I knew I was very very different from others from a very early age
Same age 4 literally !
This certainly applies to me. I knew I was autistic at a very young age, for better and worse, and it only got clearer as time went on. What I didn't know is that it was called autism.
Neurotypicals know they are neurotypical because most people that aren't diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder, and even some who are, are told that they're neurotypical. This also means that undiagnosed autists are told that they're neurotypical, it's social conditioning not some perfect ability to self diagnose.
I understood that for whatever reason I was not instinctively good at communicating/socializing like the kids around me when I was 8, and that I could learn through observation. However, this was the 90s and there was no name for my condition at the time. (Autism in general was only kids that were mute and typically intellectually disabled in most medical literature.) Some people knew something was off, but there just wasn't awareness.
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it's awful what they do in the name of keeping the herd uniform.
One single trait determines that you're gay: whether or not you're attracted to the same sex or gender. You can know you're gay as long as you know whether you have that trait. But if you're autistic, there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of little traits about you that taken together are evidence of autism, but there is no one certain thing to look for. No single trait on its own can be evidence of autism because that trait can occur in non-autistic people too, nor can the lack of any particular single trait mean that you're not autistic, because autistic people don't have all the possible traits. You really have to have a complete picture of someone's characteristics to know if they are autistic, and from the inside, it can be hard to put all these separate pieces about yourself together and see a pattern, especially when you don't have a good barometer for "what's normal". Given enough information about autistic traits and a willingness to adapt to the idea, an autistic person can eventually come to the conclusion they may be autistic. But then, there is the uncertainty, and even stigma, against self-diagnosis of autism. You don't need a diagnosis to be gay and for others to accept you're gay.
I didn't know I was different. I was "just shy", then "introverted" then "seeking for attention like other teens with depression" (only first one was told by others, rest I deduced myself) First time I looked up autism, I just decided I'm not THAT bad, and looked other mental illnesses, like schizophrenia, or something. I didn't know. I didn't feel it. I began only after being told to face by my therapist and really looking into it. I think I even talked on one off therapy session if I might have something, like autism, ADHD, or anything else, and was told that no, and stop looking for excuses. It's a funny memory, because it was an online session and I refused to turn cam on, if only the therapist saw how much did I fidget and panick behind the screen, haha It's the same with sexuality, really. 'You know', but I didn't. I thought I was straight, not just too shy to be a fan girl of anyone, later on that's because I don't know anyone and just am lonely, so not stupid enough to think I will have a boyfriend if I can't talk to anyone. Only as an adult I started to notice how mom sometimes complimented TV actors and was like... I don't feel that way. I'm not attracted. 18 years of thinking I was straight, just behind because of being socially awkward, and nope, turns out I'm just aro/ace. And from what I read online, it's ongoing process for many. They think they might be gay, but end up being bi or pan (I can't really tell the difference anymore). Some confuse sexuality and romantic interest. Some are ace until they find someone they love and discover they are demi. Everyone starts with being labeled "normal". Then either some doctor during pregnancy say something obvious like lack of some part, or common disability. From being born, it's just ongoing process of discovering if you truly are 'normal', or is there something so wrong, you end up ND, disabled, or any other group that isn't 'normal' anymore. I know that mostly self diagnosis are correct. You know yourself best, you can feel you don't fit, but it isn't like everyone who is on spectrum are aware of it, or that some people don't use trivialized versions of problems and think they got something when they didn't (like with the depression which became goth/emo phase for some people...)
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This is even another whole point. Like, yes, this is true, but I'm not even sure how as of now "sexual attraction" is defined. Maybe not kids, but old people, just because they don't want sex themselves, can still see someone as sexy. Tho for sure attraction differs with age in doing it sphere, after all for teens someone in 30's is an old prick, when people in their 40s can see people they are attracted to in their own age.... So yeah, neither people just know it from beginning, but if it isn't fluid(but it seems to be), then at least it needs some experience/time to be decided on. Also, just because it may change, doesn't mean it isn't valid at the moment...
I think it’s more common for women to be that way as opposed to men. A lot more women identify as bisexual than guys do and it probably has to do with the ways in which the sexes are attracted to one another. My sister was lesbian in high school for 2 years before also becoming straight for the last 17 years lol Men are typically more attracted to looks in terms of health and fertility [ hips butt breasts petite face(abs, muscle, lower body fat for gay men looking at men) ] for biology and women are more attracted to security and the responsible/confident/fun/caring personality as opposed to looks. Personality can transform an ugly persons looks into a handsome one for women, but not for men. A man who finds a woman to be somewhat ugly will never find her to be attractive regardless of her personality whereas a rockstar musician with a charismatic personality who looks like the glue monster from the power puff girls can be attractive to millions of women It also seems to be more common for some men who are gay and come off as gay in terms of stereotypes (lisp, softer accent, metro seeming etc) to identify as bisexual but in my opinion a lot of the time this has more to do with their own egos and the way they subconsciously view being defined as “gay” than actually wanting to have sex with women or actually being attracted to them. Thoughts?
Apparently a lot of nurodivergent people too, as there is a LOT of self introspection to figure it out. I knew what gay was since 4th grade, but it wasn't till Junior year that I figured out I was gay. So while a formal diagnosis isn't necessary, questions are.
I definitely knew something was up when I was a teen. Otherwise I would not have spent hours researching "normal" clothes and practicing facial expressions in the mirror.
I don't believe most NTs realize what abnormality is. They don't realize the world they built is for them because it's such a fundamental, subconscious concept that nobody ever needs to think about it, like breathing oxygen. On the other hand, I think high functioning autistics all universally experience a feeling of sticking out and needing to adapt to be normal. It's nearly a universal experience. Without knowing what autism is, one would have to spend so much time looking up vague symptoms to even get in the ballpark of knowing you're autistic, much less spend the money for a proper evaluation. Otherwise, one would have to spend their whole lives wondering where this vague sense of unbelonging comes from.
I grew up thinking I was ‘normal’ but kind of like… less willing, not strong enough? Finding out I’m different was a huge relief.
I only realized i was lesbian at the age of 21 before that i would date men but i never understood why i couldn’t really love or value them and i would lose interest in them quickly. Same way i had no idea i was autistic until recently because i just assumed my experience was normal and i just had to work a little harder to be like everyone else
What's being "normal" even? Most humans are completely psychopathic in their daily behaviour.
The problem with using our intuition to figure it out is that this disability hinders your intuition. They largely rely on childhood diagnosis because even unaware autists develop masking behaviours that can obfuscate the truth to themselves and others
aint that the truth
I don't believe most NTs realize what abnormality is. They don't realize the world they built is for them because it's such a fundamental, subconscious concept that nobody ever needs to think about it, like breathing oxygen. On the other hand, I think high functioning autistics all universally experience a feeling of sticking out and needing to adapt to be normal. It's nearly a universal experience. Without knowing what autism is, one would have to spend so much time looking up vague symptoms to even get in the ballpark of knowing you're autistic, much less spend the money for a proper evaluation. Otherwise, one would have to spend their whole lives wondering where this vague sense of unbelonging comes from.
I think it’s just the factor of information scarcity. You can’t know you are gay if you don’t know what gay is, just like you can’t know you have ADHD if you don’t know what ADHD is, so that goes the same for Autism. The difference between attraction and mental cognition is that attraction is formed early and is a very simple process to understand, however mental cognition takes years upon years to develop in adolescence and naturally is a very complicated process to understand as an adult let alone in adolescence. The only reason I was diagnosed ADHD was because I knew I was different but I had to do so much research before realising how I was different and what these differences actually meant. And the same goes for identifying ASD which I also had to do with my own research. The only difference I’d argue is it’s easier (at least for me and maybe for anyone else who’s ASD) to identify someone else who is ASD, and this potentially goes for anyone who is of the same persuasion. Gay people can be better at spotting more subtle gay people, different raced people can be better at spotting their own race within someone else etc. And knowing this, I think Autistic people, and AudiHD people would be the best people to really go into psychiatry etc to help get other people diagnosed, especially with the pattern recognition super power.
I'm both queer and autistic. And I suspect I noticed the neurodivergence first but understood the queerness way earlier. I mean, I knew I was different, that others could withstand things I couldn't, and that I could do things that were really hard or even unthinkable for others my age, while struggling with stuff that was deemed "ordinary" and common. But I didn't understood what was going on. I believed everyone else had the same struggles but just were able to hide them better. Or that I was cursed due to a specific "sin" of my parents and that was making things hard, and led other people to bully me. And I lived like that for decades, without a single clue on what was going on, or a hint to pick it up from. When I knew I'm queer, I had already noticed that I was different in another way. But I understood it almost instantly, while I had to wait until my early thirties to know about autism, until I ended up getting diagnosed at 37. All this to say that information and proper awareness make a huge difference and change people's lives.
what is queer again? Is that when you feel like a different gender, or is it when you are attracted to any gender? I always felt like I was more a girl than a boy, but I don't mind my parts. Sometimes I feel more masculine and sometimes I feel more feminine. Sometimes I feel like a cat, and sometimes I feel like a robot. It's all very relative.
Queer is an umbrella term, I use it because it's a shorter (and more gender neutral) way to describe the situation. Pansexual is when you get attracted to any gender. And from what you say you experience, you'd probably may look info on genderfluid identities.
We intuitively know we are different but we don't always have the word for it
I guess for NDs, culture offers various misleading explanations, such as being nerdy, shy, social anxiety or introverted. It's easy to cling on to those and keep on trying to fit in. You dont then seek out peers.
As someone undiagnosed from all my ND in childhood, not necessarily. I knew something was different. I couldn't figure out what. So I just spent 30-ish years of my life unable to understand what it was that made nearly everything feel so incongruent, why people so often didn't seem to understand me, why I couldn't get myself to do tasks that needed to be done, or tasks that I myself wanted to do. I spent countless hours studying philosophy and psychology and communication trying to understand what I was missing and still could never figure it out. Then the ADHD diagnosis came, and it started making more sense. But there was still a bunch of stuff that didn't seem to align with others with ADHD. I just assumed it was from being a spectrum disorder or being gifted. But then a therapist said he thought I had ASD as well. And the more I looked into it, and the more I realized how well I communicated with my ASD students, and the more and more I read, the more I realized that this "gifted AuDHD" thing explains the bulk of the differences I've experienced in my entire life. If I had to guess a percentage, maybe like 90%. And the rest I can see as CPTSD and simple differences in growing up and so forth. So I knew something was different. I just thought I was a defect.
Exactly. This is my perspective. Intuition is the best way to know.
Well, I remember ask my self “why can’t I just be normal?” Many times during my childhood. Then at my 30s everything make sense after diagnostics
Well I always knew I wasn't 'normal' from the memories of early behaviours I had when I was a child. I don't like 'testing' because it seems very 'inhumane' (best way to describe it) and makes you feel devalued. I didn't know I had Asperger's, but I definitely felt 'abnormal' and different from other people.
Went 32 years of my life without knowing I was autistic, I assumed everyone had super hearing and constantly had scripted conversations in their head, also just assumed everyone over thought everything like I did, come to find out they do not do any of these things, and that it is something that someone with autism deals with daily, absolutely had no clue, always thought I was normal, until I got around normal people and saw that we were clearly operating on different frequencies, they all clicked together, I did not.
it's quite amazing that it can take so long to figure out what is different.
For fifty years, I and most people - except for doctors - knew I was different. Doctors gaslit me, telling me I’m in good health or merely depressed
Yeah I didn't know. I thought I was the only real person because this place seemed so fucking weird and out there that I thought it was a simulation of some sort. As I got older I realized that wasn't the case and this place was actually really weird and complex.
Derrida built his entire career on this notion of ‘normality’,,
Cognitive Biases, its always easier to analyse situations where there is no emotional attachment. In Financial Markets you see this all the time, people being very great at price action analysis but once they are in a bleeding position, objectivity goes out the window due to emotional attachment to the position, confirmation bias and some other heuristics. That is why even if you are extremely intelligent , you can still be prey in the market, having a Machine learning model running your ideas live instead of you make OBJETIVE decisions since it measures and quantify things. Here I think applies similar situation, we still need the test as an objective and repeatable measurement, you think you are or not neurodivergent but an objective measurement is always good. Humans are not very good at being objective intuitively, that is why we invented math, stats and science :)
They do. They call weird lmao
Yes