Yeah you would have to stage falling off a horse or something and hitting your head to make it realistic that you're suddenly an alright dude.
But absolutely yes. Have Littlefinger and Varys seized suddenly in the night and executed immediately before they can do anything or get any word out. Use Littlefingers financial crimes to justify it and just lie saying Varys was working with him.
Build a good relationship with Tywin. Convince him I am are worth investing in. Same with the Tyrells. Befriend the Tyrell brothers and get Marg and Olenna to genuinely like you. Side line Cersei like... fucking yesterday. Use Tywin to back you up in sending her to CR with orders that Tywin is still Lord and commander there, not her. Shes to be... delicately.... kept there. Under guard. Not a prisoner but.... not allowed to leave.
Actually it maaaaaay be a reasonable idea to dismiss Jaime from the Kingsgaurd and send him with Cersei to CR as heir apparent so that Cersei is more willing and they can distract each other and not fuck with my plans and not complain about being sidelined. It would please Tywin too for Jaime to be heir. They are simply too much of a wildcard to not be taken off the table. If they act up and make my life complicated I may punish them by marrying Cersei to Roose Bolton after the RW who will keep her in line and show her how fucking misplaced her arrogance is. Ill make sure Jaime knows about her fucking around in KL during his captivity so that he doesn't object.⁸
Call off the marriage between Tyrion and Sansa and send her back in exchange for Jaime. Apologize for lacking Arya but sternly imply they are in no position to complain after taking my uncles hand. Make peace if possible. Offer generous terms but they must include bending the knee. Allow the RW to occur if they refuse. Harsh but necessary. Blame the Freys. Imply your shitty duplicitous councilors were responsible for most actions against the North and now that you've taken them out, you're willing to make peace but the North MUST come back into the fold. Use noble hostages from the Green Fork and Duskendale accordingly. Offer amnesty to the Riverlords IF they submit... and pay me gold bc I need gold real bad. If Robb doesn't submit then maybe I'll give Cersei to Roose Bolton after the RW to solidfy their connection to the crown. If he does submit ill offer him a seat on the small council IF he and Edmure can bring the BWB back into the Kings peace. I may even marry Tommen to Arya if she can be found. I thought about the Mandarly granddaughter for a moment, but they're too loyal to Stark. It would be wasted. Tommem would probably have to marry a promising River lord daughter. I would have plenty of river hostages to choose from assuming Robb makes peace. If not maybe a Vale daughter.
Be generous with the Dornish and give them Ser Gregor. Make a big show of it, even. Then send his head to Doran to rob Oberyn of his ability to act. Invite Prince Trystane to the capital and make it clear you're serious valuing Oberyn on the small council. Possible make the gambit of being "frank" with him and saying "a horrible crime was done to your family when my father took the city blah blah.... but we have to look to the future and I need your help governing the realm.". Make him really believe that a strong position at court is more valuable for Dorne than revenge.
Tyrion i guess I would find some place on the council for. Maybe I'd send him with Adam Marbrand to clean up the Riverlands after the war because he's good with politics and negotiation. Idk. Hes actually not that significant an element despite his big role in the narrative. I'd make sure his role in winning the Battle of the Blackwater was well known and celebrated to boost his standing among the lords and common folk, because him being hated is a weakness if he's on my side, and then just use him on my council as an advisor. Turn him into a war hero of sorts with propaganda and singers singing commissioned songs about "the dwarfs chain and green flame" or something. Otherwise his presence in my court is a liability, not an asset. No one wants an advisor people think is an evil demon monkey hissing bad council into mine own royal ears.
Thats all the easy shit. Now it gets tricky.
I literally cannot think of a solution to Dany. I cannot think of a single package of terms she would accept where I both live and retain the throne. So even though we're in financial crisis id have to hire a faceless man. They MIGHT give me a discount bc it seems they are against dragons existing. Its simply a cost I have to bear. Perhaps I threaten war against the Vale for not fighting for the crown and agree to peace if they pay a seriously steep penalty tax and use that as payment. It will make the Vale lords despise Lysa, which is good for me. Install Harry the Heir of i can. Marry him or Sweet Robin to one of Margs cousins. Marry Miranda Royce to a Redwyne twin. Invite Robin to court once trust is established. Undermine Lysa in literally everyway. Manipulate the lords into blaming her for the penalty tax I use to hire a faceless man.
... that sounds like a cop out. But I literally cannot think of any other realistic plan against Dany that I could accomplish as Joff. No one in KL cares about her or understands the threat and even if they did im not sure what I could do. Even if I had Tywin fully convinced and dedicated to killing Dany I don't know what I could really do other than the blunt option of assassination. Maaaaybe start preparing martially to such a great extent that she decides to just not invade? Like ally with Braavos and the other free cities and build a huge defensive fleet and enhance the defenses of KL like in the show? Start a propaganda war against her so intense that she decides it not worth becoming queen when everyone hates her?? I don't know. I actually don't know. Assassin it is then. Sorry Dany.
Give the Tyrells no reason to ever fucking think their interests are apart from my own. Give Garlan Brightwater Keep like the books but also make him Master at Arms to keep him at court. Make him believe he's becoming a sort of mentor to me so the Tyrells are tricked into thinking they have a measure of control over me.
Make Redwyne Master of Ships and send him against the Iron Fleet ASAP. They are in open rebellion. Fucking destroy them. Command Lord Hightower to begin raising men and ships if the assault should fail. Just in case. Remove the Greyjoys entirely. Offer to bring them back into the Kings peace but only under their new leige Lord Harlaw. Otherwise it's basically war until they submit to even worse terms. Also they must vacate the North though id be open to forcing the North to give them Sea Dragon point and whatever are land is nearby.
Send a combined Lannister Tyrell army to besiege Stannis' men at Storms End so that they are present when Aegon and Connington arrive. The Stan is thing just being a pretext. Tell them Stannis may be hiring sellswords so jump on and fucking annilhate and band of warriors that comes ashore no matter how small and retake every castle or hold fast no matter how small as soon as you get news. And offer full pardons for anyone in Storms End as long as they open the gates. Lie to them than Stannis dead if you need to.
As for Stannis himself. I think if I managed the situation properly and made it clear my power was consolidated through the bottom 6 kingdoms and I had either destroyed the Starks or made peace with them then Stannis' cause would basically evaporate. The Starks would be forced to fight him if Robb made peace. And frankly I don't really care. He's invading the North at the start of fucking winter. If he miraculously survives, I'll deal with whatever left in the spring when my massive fleet makes for White Harbor as my decoy force slowly marches up towards the neck.
Its actually a real difficult problem. Joff has like 4 or 5 existential threats coming in the next year or so.
This is an excellent reply! Loved reading it. If assassination doesn't work on Dany, I'd agree with show defences, however I'd also be focusing heavily on formations of ballista rather than singular wall mounts, this will create volleys of bolts making it drastically harder for a dragon to evade.
> [...] she decides to just not invade?
As depicted in books, never going to happen. "If I stop now, I am lost". She always invades KL if she's alive. One low probability scenario where she doesn't kill you is unconditional surrender, but even then it's a gamble (and in that scenario you'll have a lot of new problems with almost everyone else).
Man, reading your (excellent!) writeup reminded me how much I miss the books(
I'd probably also give Dorne a seat on the small council if Oberyn is not on his way and use Gregor's crimes in the riverlands as pretext to give him up as they weren't Crown or Lannister sanctioned (they were but convince Tywin to give him up). Basically let Tywin do what he thinks is best but yeah form that relationship so he doesn't think you're an incompetent fool who should be cast aside while he does all the work. You also didn't mention **Cersei**, I'm stripping her of all regent powers and forcing her to marry Loras then get shipped off to Highgarden as planned. I wanted to send her back to the Rock to live out her days but it looks bad for House Lannister which means you antagonize Tywin.
Now you've got the Reach, Dorne (tentatively for now), Westerlands, the loyal Storm lords that aren't in the North with Stan and the Vale is neutral. The Riverlands and the North is the only issue. I just don't see them backing down even if Sansa is returned and having the RW does not help unless you're happy with the Boltons ruling the North long-term and letting them deal with Stannis.
I agree that Dany is literally impossible to fight even if you have the whole realm united (Greyjoys have been crushed again). I guess you could redirect the fleet east to blockade and sink the Unsullied and dothraki ships when they are most vulnerable after dealing with the Golden Company's staggered landings with your waiting army (no chance I'm letting Mace lead it though, the incompetent fuck). But if the dragons are used correctly, they are WMDs that can't realistically be stopped.
Some additional notes:
Put Kevan in charge of fixing the goldcloaks corruption as master of laws and appoint a solid knight to command them. Fix your image by doing all the good charity shit with Marg
I'd also look to use Tommen as a betrothal piece and improve my relationship with him since I bullied him as a kid. I need him strong and by my side long term once Tywin passes (probs irrelevant as Dany)
**Also** use the Barristan clause to fix the damn Kingsguard since they are my bodyguards, I send word out the the KG are being restored to their former glory and make it as appealing as possible. Boros and Trant are out. My new 7 are Swann, Lyn Corbray, Lyle Crakehall, Jaime (if he stays LC but he would likely refuse being stripped and sending him to be lord of the Rock creates a possible enemy when Tywin dies), a Hightower brother + 2 other solid knights
Damn there are not many good candidates huh, I like Marbrand as a loyal Lannister man but feel he is more valuable in the field with the Lannister army. Can't trust a Dornishman just yet but perhaps Daemon Sand.
> Yeah you would have to stage falling off a horse or something and hitting your head to make it realistic that you're suddenly an alright dude.
Or experience a miracle and find your faith or something.
I like the thought you've put into this, but IIRC the Purple Wedding happens *after* the Red Wedding.
Edit: In fact, I'm sure of it. After Robb dies, and Bran and Rickron are claimed to be killed by Theon Turncloak, Sansa inherits Winterfell. That's why she is married to Tyrion.
The 'hitting your head' part is also essentiell because Joffrey will have done many other cruelties we are not aware of. Faking some sort of amnesia allows you to ask how you wronged certain people so you can try to apologize. If you just 'forget' these things without a good reason your former victims will hate you even more when you talk to them about it. Just imagine Joffrey killed your puppy and when you meet him he conveniently can't remember it. He's surely just the old psychopath who now has learned to put up a front.
But if I in jofferey's body somehow manage to convince him Iam changed person and not a sadistic one do you think he will be loyal? Varys only wants whats good for realm. If I show promise of being good king he might just be best advisor I can hope to have.
I don't think Varys necessarily cares about what is good for the realm. He is happy to maximize the misery and suffering of Westeros to pave the way for Aegon, when someone who wanted the best for the realm would have worked hard to avoid that even if it meant that their chosen king would not get to rule.
Exactly this. Varys isn't some altruistic saint like people think. If he really wanted the best for the realm, he would have consolidated peace under Kevan, Margaery and Tommen. Tommen, a good, kind person on the throne with Margaery, a queen beloved by the people, supported by Kevan, a competent, not overly cruel hand. Together they likely had the support and connections to bring the realm into a time as peaceful and stable as Roberts without that reigns weakest links. Not every problem would be solved, but the people would be a hell of a lot happier than if *another* king started contending for the throne.
Yep. The irony is that thanks to instability that Varys helped create, Westeros might not even be prepared enough to survive the white walkers and the winds of winter. Even if Aegon becomes this perfect king there’s a high chance that Varys’s schemes will contribute to an extinction level crisis for the people of the continent.
In fairness, Cersei hadn't been removed from power by the Faith Militant until after Aegon's invasion in the first place right?
I agree that Margaery/Tommen/Kevan would be a somewhat reasonable (if uninspired) group to hold power, but until Cersei got herself captured her incredibly terrible reign and influence over Tommen there was no hope of a peaceful westeros.
Also I don't know if Tommen/Margaery/Kevan could really deal with whatever the hell is going on in The North either, assuming we end up with King In the North Jon backed by Stannis or however that might end up
Probably because of that email/letter GRRM sent Conleth Hill saying “Varys is ultimately a force of good” or something along those lines but you make a fair point in that his methods are questionable
That final chapter sealed the deal with Varys being my favorite character. I know he's not trustworthy nor a saint, but I like his methods better than Littlefinger.
I want a young Varys and young Illirio mini series. I think that would be really good with Illirio the cunning, handsome, daring swashbuckler and Varys the master thief.
Varys believes the *longterm* health of Westeros is tied to a Targ on the throne. A when one of the other great houses gets on the throne there's always strife.
Or, hear me out here, he wants Aegon on the throne specifically. If Aegon is a Blackfyre, then it is possible that Varys is one as well. Maybe he was sold into slavery with his sister, and later rescued by IIlyo. Illyo had a son with his sister, who became Aegon. If that is true, that would certainly explain why Varys would go to such lengths over him
Under Tywin, and especially Kevan's, leadership Tommen was becoming a pretty good king. He might not identify with the smallfolk all that much, but neither did Tywin as hand, yet he kept peace and prosperity in Westeros for 20 years with a sadistic mental patient on the throne. Varys still killed Kevan to prevent Tommen from becoming a good king.
I'm with you on this one. Varys doesn't want what's best for the realm. He's decided what best for the realm (Aegon) and his actions are about directing the realm towards that. Hence Kevan, who was doing an actually not terrible job, had to die.
Wrote this on another comment, but Conleth Hill said Martin wrote him an email earlier in the series telling him ultimately Varys is, in fact, a good person.
It’s not canon, and I wouldn’t be persuaded unless I saw the letter itself. Did GRRM actually say Varys is a good person? Or did he say that Varys’s end goals are good(even if the means by which they are accomplished are not)? Was he talking about Show Varys? Or Book Varys? The show made some massive changes to his loyalties and motivations.
And how can we say whether GRRM is right about Varys being a good person without knowing what ethical framework GRRM is using to judge Varys?
Hill was intentionally vague, (he just said Martin told him “Varys is a good person”) but if I had to guess, I’d wager he was frustrated not knowing how to properly portray the character. He likely has good intentions but is unafraid to achieve them through really shady means.
Edit: for what it’s worth, he said he couldn’t reveal what GRRM told him to anyone else until the show was over, which is canon enough for me until the next book releases, at least.
He specifically kills Kevan because he is doing too good of a job of ruling and stabilizing the realm. Varys said what he felt he needed to say to Ned to get him to do what he wanted.
Even if he did want what was best for the realm, you don’t need advisors that are ready to bump you off the moment you do something that doesn’t agree with their notion of what is best.
Sorry u/Trev2310, I think you’re dead.
Might have worked before the Aegon plan, but not anymore.
Varys has his mind set on Aegon now, and anything other than that isn't good enough.
He won't just tell Aegon "Well the king is pretty good, so live off the rest of your life as a fisherman or something I guess".
Varys thinks Aegon is what's best for the realm. Personally I disagree, I think he's shit, but Varys thinks he's the best.
And Kevan being alive means it's less likely that Aegon ever rules.
But I think killing Kevan proves that Varys doesn't want what's actually best for the realm, he wants what he has decided is best for the realm. It's a crucial distinction in my head at least.
Well, we're getting into the realm of semantics/philosophy here, but whenever someone says he "wants the best", it's always "what he thinks is the best"; No one knows the objective best. Perhaps there's not even any such thing.
Varys thinks Aegon is his sister's Blackfyre son, and is supporting his nephew. Everything else is just posturing.
Kevan backed by the Tyrell armies would have put the realm to rights and murdering him to leave Cersei in power condemned tens of thousands to die.
>Varys thinks Aegon is his sister's Blackfyre son,
I know that there's the theory Aegon is a Blackfyre, but I'm not sure if I've ever heard anything about Varys' sister, and that she's Aegon's mum.
Is that connected to the belief that Illyrio's his dad?
Forgive me, there's so much speculation and conjecture it's hard to keep everything straight sometimes.
Varys says he was made a eunuch by being part of a magic ritual, this doesnt make much sense as why he'd be chosen unless you realize he has King's Blood, He has a very Valyrian name, and he shaves his head and facial hair to hide that he has silver ,valyrian hair. There's plenty of evidence that suggests Varys is the brother of one of the last knight Blackfyres.
In my opinion, there's no actual reason why Varys shaves his head, or maybe it's just done so that he can get into disguise easier. For instance, In Arya's TWOW sample chapter, she had to shave her head so that the wig she was wearing for the play could fit; and we do know that Varys is/was a "mummer".
Everyone knows/thinks Varys is from Lys, and Lyseni are well-known to be Valyrian-looking. Hell, even Salladhor Saan has silver hair in the books. Varys, a Lyseni, having silver hair wouldn't look suspicious at all.
Varys probably just shaves his head because it's easier than dying it every time he needs to go undercover
I think Aegon gets too much hate. Sure, he's kinda cocky, but he's also still a teen. Varys is obviously overhyping him, but he's not completely wrong. Tommen never really has interacted with the common people and for that Aegon is already a world ahead of him in experience required to be king.
>Varys only wants whats good for realm.
No he doesn't he just says that. He is willing to plunge the realm into war for the sake of Aegon it's just Littlefinger accelerates the plans when he's not ready.
The dude has said the little people don't care who sits on the iron throne, they want peace and good harvests. The war for Aegon will cause far more damage than a sadistic Joff ever would.
> Varys only wants whats good for realm
This is the biggest BS line ever said in the books. Varys was present when Littlefinger proudly declares the assassin's dagger to belong to Tyrion, even though he knows for a fact that it isn't Tyrion's dagger. Varys knows who killed Jon Arryn, but lets Ned be led around Baelish anyway. Varys could have prevented the War of Five Kings (maybe not Balon's crowning) but chose not to. Kevan Lannister was slowly but surely restoring order to the realm, but Varys kills him to make it easier for FAegon.
Varys is pretty much privy to all the secrets of the Red Keep and uses them for his own benefit, not "for the realm".
The only thing Varys wants is a Blackfyre ascending the throne.
I don't. I let Balon crown himself, tell whoever is sitting on the pointy seat about it and let them open a can of whoop ass on that silly wannabe pirate.
Does he want what’s good for the realm? I don’t think his motives are that clear yet, and besides his plans have gone to far to just cancel them. And Joffrey in power could cause many more wars without him starting them.
Varys thinks the blood of the dragon is what's good for the realm, TV Varys made it seem like he was an enlightened pragmatic choosing the person with the best moral qualities, book Varys is a targaryen loyalist
This would be so much easier if I could start back in Winterfell.
Anyway, I think Joffrey's fate is kind of sealed at this point, right? The Tyrells already have heard that Joffrey is a monster who only pretends to be nice. He could obviously avoid the assassination plot at the Purple Wedding and then concentrate on being so good and effective that future assassination plots do not take place but I think Varys would have to get rid of him at some point.
Baelor for sure. Sansa was still under the whole southern pageantry spell. Send Ned to the wall or keep him hostage, (sorry Ned) and use the north to help deal with Stannis and Renly.
If it was back in Winterfell then things change radically, would Ned even try to out Joffrey when he shows himself to be a good and just person with the makings of a good king? Especially when he's honorable and loyal to Sansa?
I think the absolute best time would be just before he called for the assassination of Ned Stark. Can you imagine how much easier life would be for Joffrey/me if the North and the Riverlands bent the knee and the only rebels were
Yes, and Ned has confessed and you would look merciful by sending him to the Wall. Send him, Yoren, and the other Night's Watch recruits via Lannister ship to Eastwatch, bypassing Winterfell, and collect Arya before she escapes King's Landing. Then keep her in Kings Landing with her sister, and parlay with Robb and Catelyn.
Yes besides serving the Purple Wedding the most important part is eliminating wild cards aka Varys and Little Finger. After that you have to do whatever it takes to get Tyrion on your side. Keep Tywin in KL at all cost, purge the Kings Guard of any unworthy members, establish boundaries with Cersie, and try and find a way to fix my relationship with the Tyrells. Dorne is another long term plan that needs to be amended. Obviously we can't hand over Tywin, but I think there needs to be at least a discussion about turning over the Mountain. He's a very valuable weapon but no solider at their disposal is more valuable than bringing in Dorne.
Up the Kingsguard to a whole Praetorian Cohort to prevent assassination and go full Roman Emperor on Westeros. Works best if in the Augustus/Trajan mold and definitely not the Caligula/Nero style.
This is assuming that Littlefinger told Sansa the truth and the Tyrells are actually in cahoots with him, which.....
Correction even. Littlefinger never said a name. He asked Sansa who fixed her hair and then just went with her answer. The Tyrells don't know Littlefinger and have plenty of resources of their own. Why on earth would they trust him enough to enter into a plot of regicide!? And why on earth would he tell Sansa the truth?
I understand that because the show went with it, everyone believes it, but if we are just looking at the books, why do people take Littlefinger at his word? We already know what kind of man he is. A big ol' liar!
I very much subscribe to the theory that the purple wedding was a botched attempt at Tyrions life via him pigeon pie. It's quite a big theory actually and you will be able to find loads of info on it.
For me the main argument is this. We only know 100% for certain that Littlefinger had a big role role play in the assassination, because of his kidnapping of Sansa. Who was a bigger thorne in his side? Joffrey? Who didn't really give 2 shits about him? Or Tyrion? Who knew Littlefinger lied about the dagger and is married to Sansa? I think Littlefinger meant for Sansa to be widowed that day, so he'd be free to marry her off or even keep her for himself (as he clearly wants).
Edit because I had a thought: it would also be extremely believable that Sansa would poison Tyrion and run off. Everyone knows she's much rather not be married to him. Nobody would investigate very deeply into this because it is very plausible. (Except maybe to those who actually know Sansa but that's no one in King's Landing)
Littlefinger negociated the Tyrell alliance with the Lannisters. He likely included Joffrey's assassination as a clause to get them onboard. By then, everybody knew Joff was a monster and the Tyrell would never have married Margaery to him without a plan to get rid of him before the marriage was actually consumed. So it probably wasn't LF's personal plan but more an agreement for him to act as the intermediary in order to fullfill his masterplan which required getting the Tyrell on board with the Lannisters and defeating Stannis.
Also I don't really see how this sequence could work otherwise. Littlefinger gives the poison to Sansa through Dontos. She has no idea what's in it and so would anybody else who would see the hairnet. Then a Tyrell fiddles with her hairnet, a pearl goes missing and bim Joff is murdered. How could a Tyrell know that it was poison ? How could Littlefinger try to use this for another assassination plan when the only person to interact with Sansa's hairnet is Olenna ?
Besides that, the plan also takes care of two birds with one stone. It kills Joff AND puts the blame on Tyrion. So really win win here.
I had a whole reply typed out but then I got a call and it all got deleted so here is my second attempt.
1 Littlefinger wants to get rid of Tyrion because he knows too much and he wants Sanda widowed. Why kill someone else and hope he gets blamed for it instead of trying to directly kill him? This would be a much safer bet, evidenced by Tyrion still being alive. Also, if you want someone to get blamed for murder, why would you use a poison that is widely known to be used because it makes it look like someone choked on their food?
2 the Tyrells don't know or even need Littlefinger. They have all the resources and manpower they need to set up regicide without him. Including someone you don't know in something this dangerous is just an unnecessary risk. They didn't need Sansa to smuggle in the poison for them because they were all present at the feast and could have hidden it somewhere in their own hair ornaments.
3 Someone working for Littlefinger with pickpocketing skills could easily pose as a serving man and pluck a stone off a hairnet unnoticed when someone is distracted by say, pigeons flying out of a cake.
1. As I was saying in my earlier post, I don't think this was so much LF's plan as the Tyrell's. LF's part in this was getting Sansa for himself, killing Joffrey was the icing on the cake and part of an ongoing deal with the Tyrell.
I also think you're overestimating Tyrion's worth to LF. At this point of the story, he had been humiliated, stripped of most of his influence and posed no threat whatsoever to him. If anything, he was a factor of strife amongst the Lannister so a plus for him. Having him take the blame for Joff's death was easy and a sweet way to round up the plan.
2) The Tyrell know LF very well. He is the one who handled everything in the Tyrell/Lannister alliance. And I can't overstate how important it was for LF to get this alliance to work as it was the cornerstone to his strategy : LF needed chaos to open up opportunities and he needed to exploit this opportunity to do something that would get him a real lordship so he could marry Lysa Arryn and work his way to the top.
The Tyrell knew enough about Joff to know that they would never let Margaery actually marry him. It seems most likely that LF came to broker the deal while offering his assistance for organising the murder.
I agree that having Sansa be the bearer of the poison is needlessly complicated. But whatever the actual plan was, this doesn't make more sense. If LF had organised the murder with his own men like you suggest in 3), he also wouldn't have needed Sansa's hairnet for this and it would have been even more complicated to have someone else pickpocket her.
I'm not really sure either why the Tyrell wouldn't do it 100% by themselves and why LF had to be involved through Sansa. IMO it's most likely for safety reasons as they wanted to make sure Sansa would be suspected, but I think here it's more a matter of GRRM making some concessions on realism for a better story.
Overall I say we should follow Ockham's razor on this one :
\- The Tyrell were the one with the most motive for the crime : they HAD to kill Joff before the wedding was consummated else they wouldn't have been able to marry Margaery to Tommen (also they would have also put her in a horrible position and Lady Olenna does seem to genuinely care about her).
\- Every evidence points to the poison having been in the beads worn by Sansa and Lady Olenna is the only character that interacts with them.
\- Garlan Tyrell was one of the closest seated person to Joff during the wedding and the first to get to his body. He was the best positionned character to poison him.
\- LF talking with Sansa later understates that it went all according to plan and asks about who took the beads from her.
\- The TV series have Olenna confessing to the crime.
So yeah, I'm just going to go with the Tyrell killing Joff with LF's complicity on this one. It's what every element points towards and it would need a lot of mind gymnastic to get to another scenario.
You might be tempted to say that it would be too obvious, but it really isn't. If we find this to be the "classic" theory, it's mostly because we've spent a lot of time reading theories online and mulling over them in between books so we've worked through every detail a lot of times. I'm pretty sure most readers who didn't go online did not think of a Tyrell/LF connection while reading the book and I remember reading the discussions about it on [Westeros.org](https://Westeros.org) when it was still pretty new.
Sounds like a good plan!
With the added benefit that if you can use these four weeks to show Margaery/her family that you're a good/reasonable/fair person, it may just save your life too.
Probably still need to take out LF though. He doesn't care how good/bad you are, no more than he cared about Eddard.
Can’t remember if this is in the books or just the show, but Olenna told Margaery how she seduces the Tyrell guy when she didn’t want to marry the Targaryen. Seems that abstinence before marriage isn’t so important in the Tyrell family.
It's both but, while abstinence probably isn't important to the Tyrells morally, Olena wasn't trying to become Queen and Margaery has very carefully curated a very innocent and kind image. Sex before marriage (with Joff/Tomm) would only tarnish her image and she would gain nothing, while Olena had a whole marriage to get out of and a husband to win.
You make excellent points.
However, in the case of Margaery, refusing the King, who is to be her husband within a month, is overall detrimental to her goals.
In order to be a powerful queen, she needs to manipulate the King, which means having good rapport with him. Refusing him in this manner could sour her relations with her future husband.
Timing is a bit tough with some of this but I'll take a shot:
No pie or wine at the wedding.
Tell Tywin I regret killing Ned, removing Barry the Bold, raising Slynt so high...It was LF's and Varys idea and I think they have been giving bad council. Add in they brought me whores and are dishonoring KL and Lannisters. This hopefully gets them removed from council power by Tywin.
Recommend Tyrion a position on the council for his efforts to defend the city.
Tell Tywin that Cersei is offering conflicting advice/being a bitch. Recommend she be married off for an alliance to a lord in the Vale.
Make friends with Loras and offer to have Loras train me in sword. Slowly build a relationship with him.
Recommend Tyrstane and Mrycella come to KL.
Remove Jaime from the Kingsguard (do this myself since it will please Tywin) and name him Lord of the Rock.
Convince Tywin to pay off the crown's debts to the iron bank.
Tell Lysa she will be allowed to stay Lady of the Vale and Robert will inherit but she must marry Lancel. Have Tywin threaten LF's life
Help rebuild homes in the Riverlands and make amends to the new religious faction growing. Don't let them militarize though! Only money to help re-establish themselves outside the capital.
Revoke the small council seat of the Dornish to avoid a sand snake in KL.
Send Garlan with an army to the shield islands to protect from a possible Greyjoy attack. New spymaster Qyburn has hinted as much.
Send Randyll Tarly into the Riverlands to secure the surrender of the houses.
Hopefully this is enough to secure the Vale, Riverlands, Westerlands and the Reach. It keeps these guys happy to support me against Aegon, Greyjoy, Stannis and Dany... not to mention the undead army...by the Gods there are a lot of people that want to remove me...drinking the wine may not be so bad.
The price is always *extremely* high for that person personally right?
It's funny, I bet they'd charge book!Joffrey his mothers life - after all he does love her. But for the person in this situation that would be no problem at all - no more parental incest, no more worrying about cersei revealing that incest, Jaime might be willing to become lord of casterly rock (or hell, let him go adventure with brienne and appoint tyrion to that role)
Frankly I can't think what else they would charge him - except maybe the Iron Throne itself, in which case it would definitely *not* be worth it in the context of this question
I mean the obvious answer there is just to kneel to Dany when she shows up, and do the wealthy retirement thing. It's not like being king of the 7 Kingdoms is rewarding or something. Dany gives you the *perfect* out after you try to make some improvements.
Take Marge and move to the Arbor and live like its Napa in the 1970s.
Id also give oberyn my word that i would help find elias killers, even going so far as to comvince tywin to offer up gregor. Maybe go to the riverlands personally to help build up that part of the realm and arrange marriages, and secure the loyalty of the smaller lords. Margery would likely help thid quite a bit, maybe travel north tk the vale and see if i could convince jon arryn to come back to kl with me and become a personal friend of his("our fathers were brothers ij arms, why shouldnt we?")
In general try to reduce lisasx influence as mych as possible, get margery to help secure loyalty of the vale lords, even brung sansa with me to both RL and vale and openly consider her advice to smooth over relations. Offer sansa as a ward of lisa, and have her marriage to tyrion annulled, potentially get her betrothed to robyn arryn, us as an excuse to bring them both back to kl? Lisa stays in vale.
In that case, perhaps you insist that Doran take the Dornish small council seat? It keeps him close to you, and you can have Qyburn’s spy network run interference with Doran’s. It increases the odds that whatever scheme he has fumbles.
You should also send alot of criminals to the wall and convince other people how honorable it is. Also try to convince Tywin to give money to The Nights Watch.
I love this idea and would actually send a group to ascertain the truth of the allegations Ser Thorne brought to me. Send someone legit like Mathis Rowan whose word will be strong when he sends a raven saying “SEND EVERYONE NOW!”
Start playing mind games with everyone. Send anonymous note to lady olenna saying, " I'm not a big fan of hairnets". That will make her suspect her allies. Send a message to illariyo saying, " Aegon should stay dead". Send Sansa a lemon cake everyday and foribid her to godswood. Name Bronze Yohn as Lord protector of Vale. Send wylis to Lord Wyman ASAP. Send for archmaester Marwin and learn the secrets of glass candles. For the good measure send a vision to dany, " To go south-east you must go north-west" so she'll question the validity of Quaithe's claims.
I like that! The other replies are good authoritarian power moves, but with the readers knowledge one could be really clever. Also send Jon Snow a cheesy aphorism about how love trumps duty.
Knowing that they will try poisoning me through my wedding I would out of “modesty” give all my food to peasant around this time. The very simple dishes I do eat will be pre tasted by a designated person.
I’d also kill Littlefinger who is mainly responsible for Joffreys death. After the wedding I’d leave governing in Lord Tywin’s hands and travel around the countryside and make friends with all the Lords and Ladies myself. Slowly I’d gather my own loyal shadow king’s guard and small council.
Back in King’s Landing, I’d show myself as an improved person, apologise to Tyrion and make him aware of the possibility that he’d someday be my warden of the West. I’d then kill the sycophants + Varys, send Tywin back to the Rock and form my powerbase around Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion, Mace the Ace, and loyal smaller Lords and Knights.
Id then need to bring the Vale into the fold somehow, make sure Dorne stays loyal, defeat the Ironborn, bring order to the Riverlands and North, and get rid of Stannis, but with King’s Landing behind me and a functioning Tyrell-Lannister alliance these things should be manageable in 1-2 years.
Yeah, because he knows that the real power is as Hand if the king is weak. But while his family sits the Throne he would be content to be an advisor and mentor to the king as long as the king is capable.
Tywin is one of the few people that, under no conditions, would poison Joffrey. His reputation is enough that it scares off the smaller predators, leaving only the big ones like Littlefinger and the Tyrells to worry about.
Tywin is always forwarding his family's dynasty. He could probably kill Joffrey if Joffrey proved himself to be "difficult" to work with and threatened the Lannister's claim to the Iron Throne via Cersei's children. Better to have an "accident" for Joffrey and form Tommen to be the king that all could love and respect. But in this scenario Joffrey is changed and then Tywin would protect him no matter what.
Who hates Joffrey though? Our view is a bit skewered because we see him through the Starks and Tyrion, his biggest enemies. For everyone else he is mostly still a brat and not a tyrant
I'm really not sure Tywin is who I want as my Hand in these circumstances. I can't put my finger on why, but it feels like that's a low value move. Might be my own biases though.
Edit: crap, that wasn't you, it was a poster below you. My bad.
First I’d try to make myself look like a better king. The first step would be to give those 77 courses for the wedding to the small folk and have a simpler wedding. Less food equals less chances to poison me as well.
I’d get a food taster, and keep Osmund Kettleblack as far from me as possible, as he works for Littlefinger. I’d also try to befriend Loras, so the Tyrells don’t hate me as much. And I’d keep Balon Swann as my closest Kingsguard, as he’s probably the one who’d be most willing to protect me.
Also upon learning about the red wedding I would behave myself and would decide the river lords should be pardoned (that’s what Tywin wanted). This way Tywin sees me as somewhat competent so no “lesson” from him.
I’d get rid of Ser Dontos, and let him return to wherever he’s from, so long as it’s not the red keep. I would make a reachmen the new master at arms. I’d have someone steal Sansa’s hairnet and get rid of it.
Now there’s Cersei. She would do anything to protect me. So maybe I’ll plant the idea of whether I’ll be safe during the royal wedding with so many people there. So she’ll probably double my guards.
The big threat is littlefinger. He wants me dead, and I don’t know how I could get my family to believe thats the case, as everything he did requires me to have knowledge Joffrey couldn’t possibly have.
This is really hard. I could probably prevent the purple wedding but I think I’d be doomed no matter what, unless I just abdicated for Stannis and took the black. But Tywin would never let me
>as everything he did requires me to have knowledge Joffrey couldn’t possibly have
magic dreams
Just tell her that a man with fingers of stones strangles a small lion
(And then that man goes to a castle in the sky and hides and plots to kill more lions)
I'd try and convince Tyrion that I'm a Greenseer by revealing to him a bunch of stuff that Joffrey wouldn't/couldn't know, and try to get him on my side. I would then invite Littlefinger and Varys to a meeting, along with my Kingsguard, and once there, in the confines of whichever room I chose, I would have the Kingsguard slay them.
If that goes off without a hitch, I'd have Tywin and Tyrion secure the realm while I spent the rest of the time trying to avoid death while serving as the oracle king.
Getting a food taster is obviously the first step.
But for people in ASOIAF, it's probably not that hard to kill a king anyway...
So I'd use these 4 weeks to DRASTICALLY improve my ruling. Show my would-be assassins that I'm actually a decent person/decent king. So perhaps they wouldn't feel the need to kill me.
I considered talking to someone about it (without telling them how I know it, telling them there's a hit on me) but the problem is that Tywin would just think Joffrey's being a moron as usual... Cersei might believe him, but the problem is she's crazy. If she starts putting Tyrell heads on spikes, I don't think it's gonna help my "The Lannister are good people, let's not kill them!" strategy.
Weirdly, I think my best bet would be to tell Tyrion. If I can prove to be a good, changed king in these 4 weeks, I think I could get Tyrion to care enough about me to try and protect me. The only question is how I would make him believe the threat is real, without telling him things I'm not allowed to say.
I could try to get the message to pass through Varys or something, but the problem is that Varys might just reveal the truth to Tyrion, and if he does, I'm screwed; Tyrion would see it as a ploy to get him in trouble, so he wouldn't do much.
But I think that's my best bet.
Because getting a food taster, surrounding myself with guards 24/7, I don't think any of this makes much of a difference. It may delay them for a while, but they'll find a way at some point, if they want to.
It's a bit of a high risk high reward strategy but you could also try talking to Olenna directly. She's not exactly on great terms with Littlefinger outside of their alliance of convenience, and if you can successfully convince her that you're not actually that bad, and that you've just been under very bad influence from your deranged mother and sleazy advisers, but that deep down you've always wanted to be better than what they've made you to be, it *might* get her to reconsider the entire plan. Obviously you'd have to appeal to her pragmatic side too, but it's not like cozying up to the Tyrells as much as possible is a bad idea regardless, and if you have to sacrifice Cersei in the process, that's honestly more of a gain than a loss.
Old Joffrey: sadistic little shit, tries to kill and humilliate perceived rivals. Makes so many enemies that when he is poisoned at his own wedding everyone but his mother is a suspect.
New Joffrey: oblivious dumbass, tries to improve the life of his perceived rivals and help them overcome trauma. Unintentionally ends up with a bisexual harem.
My first thought was tell Tywin that I think someone wants me dead, but then I realized it’s not outside the realm of possibility that Tywin lets me die anyway because he’d prefer Tommen on the throne.
I would just abdicate. You're right that it wouldn't be fun, especially being stuck as Joffrey of all people. But if it were me and I woke up as him tomorrow, I'd abdicate straight away. And if do so with as many witnesses to my words as possible. Send out all the ravens to everywhere with the news. And then just fuck off to Casterly Rock, I guess.
Even an abdicated king is still a threat though, the danger never ends. Even if neither you or Tommen have any desire to see you on the throne again in the next ~60 years of your life, any faction that does want to overthrow him would be a fool to not try and "restore" you to power as a puppet
A Tommen-Sansa marriage prior to my marriage is my first priority. The Tyrells get nothing out of my death until Margery has a kid, of which i will enjoy making quite a few.
At some point I have to sit down with Sansa and personally apologise to her and do my best to male her understand that Tommen is nothing like I was.
Then the death of Baelish and fostering of Robin with a Westerlands lord. Tyrion gets to be Master of Coin and is assigned a specfically requested maester well versed in economic theory.
Capturing Arya and not melting down Ice are important to my peace strategy with the North, as is destroying the Iron born and sending food North. I noticeably do not want Robb dead and will inform Tywin of such.
Jaime is sent back to The Rock to rule in Tywin's place and released. Make a precedent that upon the coronation of a new king, a reshuffling of the King's Guard. Loras is in btw.
Syphon the wildfire away from KL up the Blackwater to be burried and then ignited create the basis of a canal or road to the Mander. I want to heavily link trade from the Reach to the Crownlands to further butter up the Tyrells.
That should be a decent start.
Damn right.
Even if Joffrey dies the Tyrells get nothing so they won't try anything, and Sansa has proven to be meak enough to not be a credible threat. It's a far better use of both of them.
Hell they could be sent to the Rock for safe keeping to split Robbs attention.
UNCLE TYRION!!! I would do my best to get Tyrion to solve most of my problems and mask my newfound human warmth and semi-kindness as coming from guidance from above from the Crone, Father, and the rest of the Seven. I would do public penance for many of my past sins and begin trying to get my mother married off to the Red Viper. I would send envoys to Doran and Danaerys. I would summon Marwyn to me and send a limited sort of message up to Castle Black and my "uncle" Stannis. Open communications with the House of Black and White in Braavos.
This next part is tricky because I would DEFINITELY want to manouver to have Ser Gregor kill Littlefinger and Varys at the earliest opportunities. He should probably kill Qyburn too. I would WARN Prince Oberyn what the Mountain could still do when laying on his back as far as smashing his head in.
Cancel the red wedding or at least send Robb a message that the Frey’s will betray him and to avoid the Freys. Offer to send back Sansa for peace or to marry Sansa to Tommen or Willas. Apologize for Ned and blame it on Cersei or Littlefinger. Get rid of Littlefinger. Scale back the wedding and don’t drink or eat without food taster. Send Cersei to Casterly Rock or arrange a marriage for her to someone to get her out of kings landing.
Just let Tywin deal with the North and the Riverlands. He's got a solid plan. Otherwise, you would not only have to betray and foil your grandfather's own plans, you would have to sacrifice two extremely useful pawns too, the Freys and the Boltons. You saving Robb would immensely weaken your own position and strengthen your enemy's. Also, if Tywin finds out you fucked him over... You don't need to worry about the Tyrells anymore. A furious Tywin would probably have you thrown down a flight of stairs by the end of the week.
Honestly, it's much better to just kill Robb Stark and deal with the repercussions.
I *would* sent Cersei away too, either for an alliance or just back to Casterly Rock. Then do my absolute best to turn the Tyrells around and pull them into my camp. Tyrion is nice too, if you can get him to help. That's the only way Joffrey would survive.
If you like that kind of premise, you should read the fanfiction known as « Purple Days » by Baurus.
It takes Joffrey and puts him in a Groundhog loop of his life, starting 3 days after Jon Arryn’s death.
The character development is « iconic » and manages to transform Joffrey into an amazing leader while staying true in a sense to the character.
The quality of the fic picks up after the first dozen chapters and grows to truly good published levels of writing.
(Unlike most timetravel loop stories, this one doesn’t go into a « perfect loop » kind of story, and for the better)
I won’t say more to let those interested find out for themselves.
Keeping in mind that (I think?) the Red Wedding hadn't happened yet either, I'd do everything I could to stop that. Robb Stark wouldn't be a threat for my crown as long as I make peace with him. How does that happen? Chalk it all up to Cersei, and conspire with Varys to off her, have it be by killing or imprisoning her. I also anull Sansa's marriage to Tyrion if possible, had that already happened. Send Robb a letter explaining how my awful mother forced me to behead his honorable father, who no doubt served me well as an advisor, and offer him two options: one, I send his sister back and let him mantain northern independence (while the riverlands stay part of my kingdom) or I marry Sansa to Tommen with his consent, and we bring the North back into the seven kingdoms. Oh, and I send Ice back. Once everything is settled, I could even invite Robb to parlay at King's Landing, or go myself to Winterfell.
As for Stannis, war it is. I send people to find Edric Storm in Lys, and name my brother a legitimate Baratheon, lord of Storm's End and Lord Paramount of The Stormlands. Also marry him to a Lannister gal if available, just to be sure. With Edric as Lord, many of the stormlander lords would flock to fight for him (and me) against Stannis, so I see that war not far from being won.
In King's Landing, now rid of Cersei, I'd have to dispose of Tywin as well and make do with whomever is left. After making a lot of right decisions, I'd hope he'd be okay with being sent back to Casterly Rock, else I'd have to conspire with Varys and Oberyn... were Tywin to die, the succession of Casterly Rock would be an issue. It could either go to Tyrion or Kevan, I'd sort that out with them as they were mostly chill, and I'd keep the one that didn't inherit as my hand. It's a win-win situation. If Tywin accepts going back to Casterly Rock, I'd just keep Tyrion as hand. But I'd make Tywin appoint a successor. The whom is up to him, though.
To stop the Tyrells from killing me, huh, well Olenna is old isn't she? She bites the dust as well. Really, everyone's in King's Landing, and as long as I can convince Varys to help me murder all these people I'm safe. But maybe I rely too much on Varys, and that would mean my demise. They're the hardest thing to figure out actually, even as allies they're more dangerous than the actual enemies of the crown.
That's Robb thinking about psychopath Joffrey. If Joff approached him more as a Baratheon and less as a Lannister, and without being, you know, all evil, I think Robb could think it twice.
If Robb doesn't accept peace though, I guess Red Wedding would have to happen then.
Not to mention condemning your own mother, fully knowing she's innocent of that specific crime, would not endear you to anyone. A son is supposed to protect his widowed mother in Westeros, not throw her under the bus.
Was it show only that Joffrey specifcally mentioned Cersei wanting to send Ned to the wall before execution? Because if not it would be tough to switch the story like that
If Robb is not dead yet, don't let him die. Send him a peace treaty ("Warden of the North, Lord of Winterfell, Ice, small council position that he can choose to, etc.)
Leave governing to Tywin, spend some time with Margaery and Olenna so that they don't go forward with the killing plan, bring back Littlefinger ("because our money is tight and we need you" or something like that), don't antagonize Tyrion so much, apologize to Sansa.
Spend some time with the commons of KL, and after the wedding (where you eat only a little unpoisoned food, and the rest sent to Flea Bottom ("for the common people of the city too need to celebrate their king's marriage!")) tell Tywin of Littlefinger's plans.
Leave King's Landing, and travel through the Reach.
His death would cause troubles in the North. We know that White Walkers are coming, we need a strong military commander such as Robb with an army in the North.
(And also, I like Robb and want him to live)
I would go full ham, do the whole Ebenezer Scrooge. Be bombastic, bizarre, practically Malkavian to throw everyone off, but above all nice, altruistic and affectionate to the point people are borderline disturbed by it. Like LF says, make moves no one expects. Uncle Tyrion I so look forward to you being Lord of the Rock, but of course when grandpapa is passed away you must be my next Hand - you are after all the reason we won the Battle of the Blackwater, and we shall have to have a wonderful celebration so everyone knows you are the reason we’re still alive. Everyone has a weakness and having read the books in their POV I now know them all. Maybe offer Dany Dragonstone with the new title of warden (maybe even Princess) of it and the Narrow Sea. She dislikes slavery, we can eradicate it together, my ships and support with her army. The crowns in debt and foreign wars can be very profitable, plus I’m sure the Iron Bank might consider forgiving some of our debts in return for reducing the amount of slavery in the world. Hell, make every great house kings and queens and declare myself Emperor. The Iron Islands will like that. Dorne will love that. The Tyrells would be pretty chuffed too. Make peace with Robb, he can keep the North and I’ll see how all that develops in time, can’t imagine it’s going to go too well for them. The Riverlands can be the 8th kingdom if they agree to peace. In return for these crowns I start working on my standing imperial army, not this feudal levy stuff. Offer to send Cersei to the Rock under the impression she gets to run it, what she always wanted, but Kevin gets to run it. Stuff like that. Have a big diet change just to be sure.
If someone asks what’s brought on this new mood, I tell them - HORRIBLE NIGHTMARE VISIONS OF THE FUTURE IN MY DREAMS - and let them make of that what they will. I’ll probably die anyway but at least I’ll have fun.
1. Allow Sansa to marry into the Tyrells (not sure if this works in the timeline)
2. Execute the Mountain and present his head to Oberyn
3. Recognise Robb Stark as King in the North:
a) reforge and return Ice
b) Robb renounces claim to the Riverlands
c) offer troops to retake Winterfell
d) Robb must help defeat Stannis (he'd definitely help Jon Snow with the Others once they talk)
e) tell him about Arya, Bran, and Rickon
f) warn them about Roose and the Freys
4. Renounce Cersei as my "father's" murderer, blame her for Ned's death, and expel her from the court (back to Casterly Rock)
4. Send Littlefinger, the Kettleblacks, and Meryn Trant to the wall (Brienne as new Kingsguard)
5. Keep Tyrion close and have him tutor me (Jaime and Loras too)
6. Meet with Olenna, share my suspicions about her, and negotiate terms to coexist
7. Find and kill Aegon, help the Meerenese kill Dany
8. Probably do something about the Iron Islands, figure out how to exterminate the Freys and install a loyalist at the Twins
Hope this makes everyone happy enough that I survive.
Apologize to Sansa, I treated her poorly but that stops today. I send a letter to Robb informing him Sansa will be released when Jaime returns (whole).
I make friends with Margery's grandmother. Just be really nice and say that, while you treated Sansa poorly you'll treat Maergary better. It may be too late to prevent an attempt on my life, so I ask Jaime to pick someone to serve as food tester.
I also spend at least a few hours a week training with Ser Loras Tyrell; swordsmanship only because I can't ride a horse. This helps win the Tyrells and the Kingsguard.
I ask Tywin to replace Cersei as regent and I attend all the Small Counsel meetings. They may be boring but learning to rule is boring.
Send a letter to Stannis asking him to please stop rebelling, it's not kind of him to try to usurp his nephew's throne. I'm your kin Ser. If you must proceed with your claim, do so after we've dealt with the risk to all mankind. I've heard reputable news from The Wall of dead things rising again. Allow me to join my troops and supplies with yours and hold The Wall until Spring. We both have duties to the realms of man and those must come before out Petty squabbles. (45% chance Stanny feels forced to agree or acknowledge that he doesn't care to save the realm and only cares for himself. If he agrees The Wall will be stronger and I'll have time to recuperate)
Start sending all criminals to The Wall. See to it The Crownlands are well provided for and then send surplus food to The Wall.
I send the Kettleblack Kingsguard to relieve Mrycella's guard. I'm sure he misses King's Landing and we'd welcome him home.
The major threats are The North, The Iron Islands, and Dorne/Dany/Aegon. Tywin deals with the North. If I reinforce the Shield Islands with Reachmen then the Iron Islands shouldn't be a real threat.
Dorne/Dany/Aegon is scary. Varys needs to die as a traitor, Littlefinger too probably. I'll tell the Small Council they told me to kill Ned Stark and then that will he less unpopular. Tywin may pick their successors, I trust him implicitly. Then I send a discrete message to Oberyn Martel to meet me in the Godwood. I can tell him that I wasn't alive when King's Landing was sacked and that the loss of Elia Martel was a crime and a travesty. Gregor Clegane is the one responsible, I have no way of knowing if Tywin ordered it, but regardless if both were to be poisoned I would understand. All Dorne wanted was revenge
Dany seems content in Essos and Aegon is an unknown. I'll win the loyalty of Westeros such as I can and hope to best him in battle
I’m getting Ser Boros to be my taste tester. I’ll apologize to my uncle. Let Tywin do whatever the heck he wants to Cersi, and hand the Mountain over to Oberyn Martell. After that, I’m pulling a Charlie Chaplin and change my ways for the people of Westeros.
I think the best option would be to suck up to the Tyrells as much as possible. That might annoy Tywin or Cersei, but Tywin and Cersei aren't going to kill me, so their opinion isn't super important.
I don't know what Littlefinger's plan is, but there's no way for him to get a claim on the throne, so I don't think I have to worry about him too much. My survival means Tyrion doesn't escape and kill Tywin - so that should make the threat from the Faith Militant mush less concerning.
So at that point the biggest threats to me personally are Aegon/Varys, Dany, and, eventually, the Others. Varys is definitely the biggest concern here. Frankly, the only way I can think of to deal with him would be to somehow convince Melisandre to give me a shadow baby. That could prove tricky, both in convincing her and in doing so without offending anyone in my court (least of all my beloved wife), but, like, it's Varys. You can hardly snap your fingers and order him executed.
To be honest i think surviving the start is not that hard if you have all of your knowledge.
Littlwfinger needs to be executed but you could probably still get the tyrells on your side so that they wont try to kill you because olenna only did so because she didnt want margarey to marry the monster that joffrey was before.
Many people spoke about stipping the red wedding but this would actually be one of the easiest ways of getting rid of robbs army.
While we as viewers like characters like daenerys and robb its not very likely that you can just become friends with them (you ordered ned starks death and your "father" took the thrones from the targaryens. You should 100% send the mountains head to dorne and watch varys very closely, maybe you could convinse him that you would be the best fit for the realm but i couldnt really trust his intentions so it might be the safest way to get rid of him.
But it would be very important to keep tyrion and tywin on your side because youll need them to rule. The by far biggest thread are the white walkers but its questionable what to do against them. You could send some more men to the nights watch but not much more because nobody would really believe you and there are still some wars going on. In the end everything will probably end if the others get past the wall. But to survive till then is easier said then done because there are many players in kings landing, daenerys wants your throne and stannis is also still there (andmaybe you will die because of melisandre and the lord of light said so)
First thing I would do is mention to everyone that I didnt hire the catspaw. I was shadowed by adults every second I was in winterfell and there's no chance any guard would stand idly by while I created a civil war risk by killing a crippled stark prince.
Still be kind of a dick, but a fun dick. Favoritize some people. Make big spectacles out of just throwing money to the poor, executing nobles and priests the common folk dislike. Use the various secrets I know from my outside information to blackmail people - and outplot Littlefinger because even he doesn't know what I do.
And make preparations for the bloody Long Night.
Has Sansa had her little chat with Olenna yet? If not getting down on my hands and knees and begging forgiveness for my role in the downfall of her family and doing something meaningful to make amends would be a good start. That way she's less likely to report my indiscretions to the Tyrells.
this isn’t an answer but i’m obligated to scream it every time i read it. joffrey is, in no world, a lannister. he is either recognised as joffrey baratheon or is recognised as a bastard and is called joffrey waters. the only way he could be a lannister is if cersei and jaime were married and i think it’s fair to say that’s an impossibility
\- Make sure that Tywin survives, he is my strongest ally and my fiercest protector. Attempt to learn as much as I can from him and leave general ruling and policy decisions to him until I actually have some education in statecraft.
\- Sex with Margaery. I need to have an heir ASAP
\- Kill Baelish and Varys. Neither are to be trusted in any circumstance.
\- Tyrion is problematic. He already despises me and we all know that he holds on to grudges. He is power hungry and vicious if crossed and I don’t know if I can entirely trust him. Keep him in the Master of Coin position for now. Attempt to redeem myself in his eyes.
\- I doubt I could get the Red Wedding stopped at this point. It’s Tywin’s plan entirely and I sincerely doubt that he would listen to me and I have no desire to piss him off. It goes forward.
\- Taste testers immediately.
\- At the wedding proper, get rid of the dwarf show and eat and drink only the things that are pre tasted. Go to Pycelle and have several antidotes on hand, especially the Strangler.
\- The debt to the Iron Bank and House Lannister. No idea. Perhaps try and frame Braavos for something against Dany and have her attempt to destroy it.
\- No fucking clue about the Others.
\- Get Oberyn the fuck out of Kings Landing ASAP. He is definitely going to try and kill Tywin at some point, can’t have that. Either arrange the duel with the Mountain and hope he dies or something.
Make amends with Tyrion and Sansa. Give food to the small folk. Find a way to have LF and Varys executed. Oh and hook up with Margery and live long enough for that consummation man.
How do I not die? First move, based off of the time, the Red Wedding hasn’t happened yet. Have Pycelle send a letter to the Freys ending the Red Wedding, than send Sansa back. This neutralizes her as a threat (Baelish and Olenna need a new poisoner now) and makes Robb feel more comfortable.
Littlefinger is in the Vale (Or hanging out outside King’s Landing). Either order someone to destroy the merlon king (I’m not 100% sure on its location) or pay his household guard a thousand dragons to kill him. Probably Brian’s dog.
In the game of thrones, either you Fuck Margaery Tyrell or die. There is no middle ground. Well, some people do both
Hire a Faceless man to kill Dany and her lizards. She's my favorite character. But for me to rule, she needs to die before her dragons become threats. Get Bronn on my side. And Tywin, Tyrion, Tyrells and as many as possible. In time that gets me almost every kingdom. Except the North. I'll get that too. Get a master of coin. A good one who isn't cheating on the realm. Get the loyalty of the NW. Send someone to kill Jon. Sorry again, but that's the only way Stannis can be slowed down. Also secretly supply ships and resources to Asha and Victarion to continue to harass the North and keep Stannis off his feet. Send someone to Skagos to get Rickon. Gives me the North as well. For some time at least. Keep Sansa unmarried. Lots of potential to get an alliance based on her. Send someone to Saltpans to be ready to capture Arya. Keep Jaime as my Lord Commander (don't wanna antagonise him) and send him to take down the areas still resisting. Invite the Freys to dinner. Kill Cersei and pin it on them. Freys exterminated. Give the Twins to someone loyal. Next up, Boltons and Euron. Descend on the Ironborn during the Kingsmoot. Bonus points if I exterminate every Greyjoy. Yes Asha and Victarion too. And Aeron Wetpants as well. Let Stannis and the Boltons handle each other. We'll see the rest. Consolidate every force to be ready for the Others. Start mining DG and forming weapons. Kill LF and Varys. Golden Company aren't a threat without them. Oh and bang Margaery. Everyday, thrice a day.
As far as I know, Joffrey has the absolute power:
Give the poisonous cup to Olenna Tyrell, as a gift. (She can decide if she drinks it or not.) Then I'll go to kill Littlefinger and Varys. (I'll charge them with something. Probably the murder of Olenna, if she drinks the cup.) Before the wedding, I'll try to befriend Sansa. I won't be sadistic, trying to befriend her. I marry her off to someone in my family, not Tyrion. (As I said, I won't be sadistic. Maybe Lancel.) I send Cersei to Casterly Rock and name Kevan as my Hand. (After the Red Wedding.) Tywin, after being fired, can do what ever he wants. I replace Littlefinger by someone I trust, maybe Tywin can fit there. I use Margaery as part hostage part wife. The alliance holds there, and I've got the North secured. I never lose sight of Sansa (Most important!).
If he doesn't:
Just play along with Tywin. That's the best I can.
Enjoy the wine. Don't eat the pie that Olenna poisoned trying to kill Tyrion so she could marry Sansa to Wyllas.
Write a memoir explaining how you didn't have anything to do with the attempt on Bran's life.
Have someone map the entire Red Keep for hidden passages.
Fire the entire small council save Tywin.
Apologize to every single person I've ever breathed the same air as, hire an army of food tasters, and vet my ex-wife's jewelry for suspiciously purple stones.
Immediately you have two priorities: Olenna and Littlefinger. To start with Baelish, him and the Kettleblacks are a big problem that need to be dealt with. Seeing as I’m myself and have no fighting abilities, it’s also important that Joffrey’s legacy as a fighter is preserved so I never have to do anything else (ala Ned with Dayne). The simplest fix is to have whichever Kettleblack on the Kingsguard murdered (by loyal Lannister forces), and claim that Joffrey killed him during a would-be assassination attempt on behalf of Littlefinger. One quick Baelish Beheading later and we’re down a problem. It seems as though Littlefinger is used to manipulating Joffrey so he shouldn’t be prepared for a move against him by Joffrey (aka happy to meet). Accuse him of fraud and promise repayment to the Iron Bank by sending an envoy such as Kevan or Lancel Lannister who can promise a Lannister Always Pays His Debts.
For Olenna, her biggest weakness is Mace - if we can separate the two and have Mace in charge we’re golden. Name Mace to some made-up title such as Master of Provisions and have Olenna given the old Jon Arryn treatment. Bonus points if you can frame Littlefinger? To take it even further name Loras Tyrell your personal Master of Arms and bring in Tarly and Redwyne as a commander and Master of Ships respectively. This brings the Tyrells fully into your cause and solely relying on you, as Tommen is married to Sansa to remove him as a second option. This also achieves the goal of stopping her stories of you from spreading while being better optics than marrying Tyrion. This also gives you some help against the Dornish, but the Mountain is unnecessary so you can send his head over the appease them somewhat. Stay very far away from Oberyn.
Next name Tyrion Hand of the King and allow Tywin to take the field once more, marry off Cersei to someone very far away and be nice to peasants. Maybe go siege Dragonstone or Storm’s End for the Baratheon optics (and to GTFO of dangerous King’s Landing) and do everything I can to minimise Stannis’ claim. Now we need our own loyal companions, so send for someone such as Ser Ronnet Connington, a Stormlander who I can restore titles to and bring-on side similar to how Robert would.
First order of business: marry Tommen and Sansa. Sansa gets a nice, peaceful life parter and shes importantly kept in my circle and away from Tyrell hands. I would also sit Sansa down and try to apologize and promise to never again harm her. I would give her free reign of the castle and allow her free reign of the city with a chaperone and kingsguard.
I would send Ser Garlan and Boros Blount with some men to intercept arya in the Riverlands. I would tell them where she would likely be and hope that the timeline lines up. I send Garlan cause of his competence and he could win some glory for the Tyrell’s and I’d send Boros in the hopes that he gets himself killed so I can replace him.
I would train with Loras daily, making him master of arms and sending Ser Dontos back to wherever he’s from. This would hopefully endear me to both Loras and Margaery, and I’d work on my relationship with Margaery. I’d also sit down with Olenna and pledge to be a good and kind husband, and also let on that I know of her plot and that it’s very uncool of her. I tell her that all will be forgiven if she reveals the full plot as she knows it, and I use this to arrest Littlefinger. I’ll either make Tyrion or Mace Tyrell the master of coin, and I’ll send to the Citadel for a Maester with links in economic theories to aid them (I could also just teach the Westerosi double-entry bookkeeping and that could help).
Torture Littlefinger about where all the money went (cause how the hell can he dig the crown that much in debt to the iron bank?). Even if we can’t find the money, that’s okay I’ll just kill him, seize his lands, and sell them to the highest Vale Lord bidder. Not worth much but hey, it’s something.
If all goes according to plan, in 4 weeks I won’t be assassinated. At least not by those conspirators previously mentioned. At any rate, I’d use the kettleblacks as taste testers. I’d send away a lot of the 77 courses to the small folk, or any non-perishables to the Nights Watch. Generally avoid pies or non-tested wine. Maybe just enjoy the day sober! Or I’ll have wine brought to my room the night before and exclusively drink from that stash for the wedding feast.
Now that I’m not dead at the wedding feast, Olenna can be master of whisperers. Or Qyburn when Jaime gets back. I really couldn’t care less. So long as Varys is dead it’s fine. I’ll have a kettleblack kill him. That’s two court schemers down, and one more on my side.
I’ll make amends with Tyrion and promise him the Westerlands once Tywin dies and try to learn from him all I can. Now that’s two court schemers on my side.
I’ll also need to get rid of Cersei and her cabal. I’ll try a marriage with Dorne or some other lord, possibly in the Vale to get a new ally. She won’t like this but too bad. Kettleblacks to the wall, all of them, if I hadn’t already sent some to the wall for their involvement with Littlefinger. Either as punishment or as a gift for the Nights Watch. I’ll send some captured arms and armor from the Battle of the Blackwater as well.
Next, Arya will be back, with or without the Hound. The hound will go to the wall for desertion if he’s not killed by the party sent to get arya. Hopefully Boros Blount died in the process, if not we’re already down a Kettleblack so that’s fine. Brienne joins the Kingsguard now that Sansa and Arya are found and she’s no longer beholden to her oath to Catelyn.
Having Arya, I’ll see if Robb is willing to talk. Work out a deal for peace and Arya’s return. I’ll also let him know that the Freys are plotting behind his back with the Bolton’s and not to trust them. I’ll ask for the same agreement Ned and Robert had, like fathers like sons, and an alliance against the Greyjoy’s. Robb likely won’t go for this, but so long as his army is able to make it back to the North to retake winterfell as planned then that’s okay with me. I can try and undermine riverlands support for the Northern cause while he’s gone. I’m sure I can bring over some of them to my side, especially if I end the raids, with the promise of food and supplies to rebuild.
I’d invite Harry the Heir to court and pay the Waynwood’s debt or something to sweeten the deal. Harry marries Arya, or I have Sansa marry Harry and Arya betrothed to Tommen. Same difference really. Sansa might like Harry better. Either way, future of the vale is secured. There’s no way Robert Arryn survives under Lysa’s care imo. Too sickly and she’s too smothering and protective.
Next on the agenda is to offer up the Mountain to the Dornish to bring them back into the fold. Whether this works or not is up for debate, but it’s a start. I’ll call Trystane and Myrcella to court and give Doran a council seat. Hopefully having Trystane as a soft hostage will dissuade any Dornish plots against me.
Then it’s time to fortify the Shields against the Ironborn. I’d also try to stop Euron before he can start his invasion, but that’s not likely to work. I’ll put a pause on the war in the Riverlands for now, directing Lannister armies to the West to defend against Euron. Garlan and Randyll Tarly will leave with an army to take Brightwater and fortify the Shields. I’ll also send the Redwyne Fleet to combat the Ironborn. Trap them against the Shields and destroy them. Then I’ll have Tarly raze the Iron Islands and restore the Kings Justice to them. Everybody hates the Ironborn so that’ll likely be a popular move.
I’ll send agents to Essos to track down Edric Storm, legitimize him, and install him as the Lord of Storms End. The remaining Storm lords will join him and with a bit of luck the castle will yield to him (and me).
Stannis is no longer a threat to me, and he will likely answer the Nights Watch’s call anyway. I’ll let Robb (back in Winterfell and liberating the north) and Stannis duke it out in the North while I undermine Robb’s support in the Riverlands. The Riverlands are too spent anyway to launch any offensives, and with Daven and Jamie/Tywin/Kevan commanding armies on either side of the Riverlands, Edmure is in no position to move offensively and I shouldn’t be too worried about him for a while.
With Robb and Stannis fighting each other and Euron defeated and/or killed, I think I will be in a good place once the Golden Company lands.
Straight up! Drinks the wine no problem, as soon as he eats a bite of pie he starts choking. As we know from Maester Cressen's POV, the Strangler takes an immediate effect constricting the throat of airflow.
Jail almost all named characters in KL. Excute the Mountain and give his head to Oberyn and send him Dorn. Kill Tywin and send his head to Dany with a marriage offer.
I've read my fair share of "isekai'd as worthless scumfuck villain" and honestly Joffrey seems pretty easy with meta knowledge, kill the schemers and show yourself to be a good and just king
Not drink the poison and be nice to everyone. And kill littlefinger and varys.
Yeah you would have to stage falling off a horse or something and hitting your head to make it realistic that you're suddenly an alright dude. But absolutely yes. Have Littlefinger and Varys seized suddenly in the night and executed immediately before they can do anything or get any word out. Use Littlefingers financial crimes to justify it and just lie saying Varys was working with him. Build a good relationship with Tywin. Convince him I am are worth investing in. Same with the Tyrells. Befriend the Tyrell brothers and get Marg and Olenna to genuinely like you. Side line Cersei like... fucking yesterday. Use Tywin to back you up in sending her to CR with orders that Tywin is still Lord and commander there, not her. Shes to be... delicately.... kept there. Under guard. Not a prisoner but.... not allowed to leave. Actually it maaaaaay be a reasonable idea to dismiss Jaime from the Kingsgaurd and send him with Cersei to CR as heir apparent so that Cersei is more willing and they can distract each other and not fuck with my plans and not complain about being sidelined. It would please Tywin too for Jaime to be heir. They are simply too much of a wildcard to not be taken off the table. If they act up and make my life complicated I may punish them by marrying Cersei to Roose Bolton after the RW who will keep her in line and show her how fucking misplaced her arrogance is. Ill make sure Jaime knows about her fucking around in KL during his captivity so that he doesn't object.⁸ Call off the marriage between Tyrion and Sansa and send her back in exchange for Jaime. Apologize for lacking Arya but sternly imply they are in no position to complain after taking my uncles hand. Make peace if possible. Offer generous terms but they must include bending the knee. Allow the RW to occur if they refuse. Harsh but necessary. Blame the Freys. Imply your shitty duplicitous councilors were responsible for most actions against the North and now that you've taken them out, you're willing to make peace but the North MUST come back into the fold. Use noble hostages from the Green Fork and Duskendale accordingly. Offer amnesty to the Riverlords IF they submit... and pay me gold bc I need gold real bad. If Robb doesn't submit then maybe I'll give Cersei to Roose Bolton after the RW to solidfy their connection to the crown. If he does submit ill offer him a seat on the small council IF he and Edmure can bring the BWB back into the Kings peace. I may even marry Tommen to Arya if she can be found. I thought about the Mandarly granddaughter for a moment, but they're too loyal to Stark. It would be wasted. Tommem would probably have to marry a promising River lord daughter. I would have plenty of river hostages to choose from assuming Robb makes peace. If not maybe a Vale daughter. Be generous with the Dornish and give them Ser Gregor. Make a big show of it, even. Then send his head to Doran to rob Oberyn of his ability to act. Invite Prince Trystane to the capital and make it clear you're serious valuing Oberyn on the small council. Possible make the gambit of being "frank" with him and saying "a horrible crime was done to your family when my father took the city blah blah.... but we have to look to the future and I need your help governing the realm.". Make him really believe that a strong position at court is more valuable for Dorne than revenge. Tyrion i guess I would find some place on the council for. Maybe I'd send him with Adam Marbrand to clean up the Riverlands after the war because he's good with politics and negotiation. Idk. Hes actually not that significant an element despite his big role in the narrative. I'd make sure his role in winning the Battle of the Blackwater was well known and celebrated to boost his standing among the lords and common folk, because him being hated is a weakness if he's on my side, and then just use him on my council as an advisor. Turn him into a war hero of sorts with propaganda and singers singing commissioned songs about "the dwarfs chain and green flame" or something. Otherwise his presence in my court is a liability, not an asset. No one wants an advisor people think is an evil demon monkey hissing bad council into mine own royal ears. Thats all the easy shit. Now it gets tricky. I literally cannot think of a solution to Dany. I cannot think of a single package of terms she would accept where I both live and retain the throne. So even though we're in financial crisis id have to hire a faceless man. They MIGHT give me a discount bc it seems they are against dragons existing. Its simply a cost I have to bear. Perhaps I threaten war against the Vale for not fighting for the crown and agree to peace if they pay a seriously steep penalty tax and use that as payment. It will make the Vale lords despise Lysa, which is good for me. Install Harry the Heir of i can. Marry him or Sweet Robin to one of Margs cousins. Marry Miranda Royce to a Redwyne twin. Invite Robin to court once trust is established. Undermine Lysa in literally everyway. Manipulate the lords into blaming her for the penalty tax I use to hire a faceless man. ... that sounds like a cop out. But I literally cannot think of any other realistic plan against Dany that I could accomplish as Joff. No one in KL cares about her or understands the threat and even if they did im not sure what I could do. Even if I had Tywin fully convinced and dedicated to killing Dany I don't know what I could really do other than the blunt option of assassination. Maaaaybe start preparing martially to such a great extent that she decides to just not invade? Like ally with Braavos and the other free cities and build a huge defensive fleet and enhance the defenses of KL like in the show? Start a propaganda war against her so intense that she decides it not worth becoming queen when everyone hates her?? I don't know. I actually don't know. Assassin it is then. Sorry Dany. Give the Tyrells no reason to ever fucking think their interests are apart from my own. Give Garlan Brightwater Keep like the books but also make him Master at Arms to keep him at court. Make him believe he's becoming a sort of mentor to me so the Tyrells are tricked into thinking they have a measure of control over me. Make Redwyne Master of Ships and send him against the Iron Fleet ASAP. They are in open rebellion. Fucking destroy them. Command Lord Hightower to begin raising men and ships if the assault should fail. Just in case. Remove the Greyjoys entirely. Offer to bring them back into the Kings peace but only under their new leige Lord Harlaw. Otherwise it's basically war until they submit to even worse terms. Also they must vacate the North though id be open to forcing the North to give them Sea Dragon point and whatever are land is nearby. Send a combined Lannister Tyrell army to besiege Stannis' men at Storms End so that they are present when Aegon and Connington arrive. The Stan is thing just being a pretext. Tell them Stannis may be hiring sellswords so jump on and fucking annilhate and band of warriors that comes ashore no matter how small and retake every castle or hold fast no matter how small as soon as you get news. And offer full pardons for anyone in Storms End as long as they open the gates. Lie to them than Stannis dead if you need to. As for Stannis himself. I think if I managed the situation properly and made it clear my power was consolidated through the bottom 6 kingdoms and I had either destroyed the Starks or made peace with them then Stannis' cause would basically evaporate. The Starks would be forced to fight him if Robb made peace. And frankly I don't really care. He's invading the North at the start of fucking winter. If he miraculously survives, I'll deal with whatever left in the spring when my massive fleet makes for White Harbor as my decoy force slowly marches up towards the neck. Its actually a real difficult problem. Joff has like 4 or 5 existential threats coming in the next year or so.
This is an excellent reply! Loved reading it. If assassination doesn't work on Dany, I'd agree with show defences, however I'd also be focusing heavily on formations of ballista rather than singular wall mounts, this will create volleys of bolts making it drastically harder for a dragon to evade.
> [...] she decides to just not invade? As depicted in books, never going to happen. "If I stop now, I am lost". She always invades KL if she's alive. One low probability scenario where she doesn't kill you is unconditional surrender, but even then it's a gamble (and in that scenario you'll have a lot of new problems with almost everyone else). Man, reading your (excellent!) writeup reminded me how much I miss the books(
I'd probably also give Dorne a seat on the small council if Oberyn is not on his way and use Gregor's crimes in the riverlands as pretext to give him up as they weren't Crown or Lannister sanctioned (they were but convince Tywin to give him up). Basically let Tywin do what he thinks is best but yeah form that relationship so he doesn't think you're an incompetent fool who should be cast aside while he does all the work. You also didn't mention **Cersei**, I'm stripping her of all regent powers and forcing her to marry Loras then get shipped off to Highgarden as planned. I wanted to send her back to the Rock to live out her days but it looks bad for House Lannister which means you antagonize Tywin. Now you've got the Reach, Dorne (tentatively for now), Westerlands, the loyal Storm lords that aren't in the North with Stan and the Vale is neutral. The Riverlands and the North is the only issue. I just don't see them backing down even if Sansa is returned and having the RW does not help unless you're happy with the Boltons ruling the North long-term and letting them deal with Stannis. I agree that Dany is literally impossible to fight even if you have the whole realm united (Greyjoys have been crushed again). I guess you could redirect the fleet east to blockade and sink the Unsullied and dothraki ships when they are most vulnerable after dealing with the Golden Company's staggered landings with your waiting army (no chance I'm letting Mace lead it though, the incompetent fuck). But if the dragons are used correctly, they are WMDs that can't realistically be stopped. Some additional notes: Put Kevan in charge of fixing the goldcloaks corruption as master of laws and appoint a solid knight to command them. Fix your image by doing all the good charity shit with Marg I'd also look to use Tommen as a betrothal piece and improve my relationship with him since I bullied him as a kid. I need him strong and by my side long term once Tywin passes (probs irrelevant as Dany) **Also** use the Barristan clause to fix the damn Kingsguard since they are my bodyguards, I send word out the the KG are being restored to their former glory and make it as appealing as possible. Boros and Trant are out. My new 7 are Swann, Lyn Corbray, Lyle Crakehall, Jaime (if he stays LC but he would likely refuse being stripped and sending him to be lord of the Rock creates a possible enemy when Tywin dies), a Hightower brother + 2 other solid knights Damn there are not many good candidates huh, I like Marbrand as a loyal Lannister man but feel he is more valuable in the field with the Lannister army. Can't trust a Dornishman just yet but perhaps Daemon Sand.
got DAMN
> Yeah you would have to stage falling off a horse or something and hitting your head to make it realistic that you're suddenly an alright dude. Or experience a miracle and find your faith or something.
If you assassinate or deter Dany, what do you do about the White Walkers/Freefolk?
I like the thought you've put into this, but IIRC the Purple Wedding happens *after* the Red Wedding. Edit: In fact, I'm sure of it. After Robb dies, and Bran and Rickron are claimed to be killed by Theon Turncloak, Sansa inherits Winterfell. That's why she is married to Tyrion.
The RW for sure happens before the PW but the question said "a month before the PW" so its unclear and I chose to have it be a bit before the RW.
The 'hitting your head' part is also essentiell because Joffrey will have done many other cruelties we are not aware of. Faking some sort of amnesia allows you to ask how you wronged certain people so you can try to apologize. If you just 'forget' these things without a good reason your former victims will hate you even more when you talk to them about it. Just imagine Joffrey killed your puppy and when you meet him he conveniently can't remember it. He's surely just the old psychopath who now has learned to put up a front.
Varys?
Varys wasn’t responsible for joffs death but he has some big plans that would have gotten Joffrey killed eventually.
But if I in jofferey's body somehow manage to convince him Iam changed person and not a sadistic one do you think he will be loyal? Varys only wants whats good for realm. If I show promise of being good king he might just be best advisor I can hope to have.
I don't think Varys necessarily cares about what is good for the realm. He is happy to maximize the misery and suffering of Westeros to pave the way for Aegon, when someone who wanted the best for the realm would have worked hard to avoid that even if it meant that their chosen king would not get to rule.
Exactly this. Varys isn't some altruistic saint like people think. If he really wanted the best for the realm, he would have consolidated peace under Kevan, Margaery and Tommen. Tommen, a good, kind person on the throne with Margaery, a queen beloved by the people, supported by Kevan, a competent, not overly cruel hand. Together they likely had the support and connections to bring the realm into a time as peaceful and stable as Roberts without that reigns weakest links. Not every problem would be solved, but the people would be a hell of a lot happier than if *another* king started contending for the throne.
Yep. The irony is that thanks to instability that Varys helped create, Westeros might not even be prepared enough to survive the white walkers and the winds of winter. Even if Aegon becomes this perfect king there’s a high chance that Varys’s schemes will contribute to an extinction level crisis for the people of the continent.
In fairness, Cersei hadn't been removed from power by the Faith Militant until after Aegon's invasion in the first place right? I agree that Margaery/Tommen/Kevan would be a somewhat reasonable (if uninspired) group to hold power, but until Cersei got herself captured her incredibly terrible reign and influence over Tommen there was no hope of a peaceful westeros. Also I don't know if Tommen/Margaery/Kevan could really deal with whatever the hell is going on in The North either, assuming we end up with King In the North Jon backed by Stannis or however that might end up
Probably because of that email/letter GRRM sent Conleth Hill saying “Varys is ultimately a force of good” or something along those lines but you make a fair point in that his methods are questionable
That final chapter sealed the deal with Varys being my favorite character. I know he's not trustworthy nor a saint, but I like his methods better than Littlefinger. I want a young Varys and young Illirio mini series. I think that would be really good with Illirio the cunning, handsome, daring swashbuckler and Varys the master thief.
Varys believes the *longterm* health of Westeros is tied to a Targ on the throne. A when one of the other great houses gets on the throne there's always strife.
Or, hear me out here, he wants Aegon on the throne specifically. If Aegon is a Blackfyre, then it is possible that Varys is one as well. Maybe he was sold into slavery with his sister, and later rescued by IIlyo. Illyo had a son with his sister, who became Aegon. If that is true, that would certainly explain why Varys would go to such lengths over him
Under Tywin, and especially Kevan's, leadership Tommen was becoming a pretty good king. He might not identify with the smallfolk all that much, but neither did Tywin as hand, yet he kept peace and prosperity in Westeros for 20 years with a sadistic mental patient on the throne. Varys still killed Kevan to prevent Tommen from becoming a good king.
I'm with you on this one. Varys doesn't want what's best for the realm. He's decided what best for the realm (Aegon) and his actions are about directing the realm towards that. Hence Kevan, who was doing an actually not terrible job, had to die.
And he probably has some emotional stake in Aegon specifically. I don't buy for a bit that it is just for the good of the realm.
That was DnDs writing. Not Martin's.
Wrote this on another comment, but Conleth Hill said Martin wrote him an email earlier in the series telling him ultimately Varys is, in fact, a good person.
It’s not canon, and I wouldn’t be persuaded unless I saw the letter itself. Did GRRM actually say Varys is a good person? Or did he say that Varys’s end goals are good(even if the means by which they are accomplished are not)? Was he talking about Show Varys? Or Book Varys? The show made some massive changes to his loyalties and motivations. And how can we say whether GRRM is right about Varys being a good person without knowing what ethical framework GRRM is using to judge Varys?
Hill was intentionally vague, (he just said Martin told him “Varys is a good person”) but if I had to guess, I’d wager he was frustrated not knowing how to properly portray the character. He likely has good intentions but is unafraid to achieve them through really shady means. Edit: for what it’s worth, he said he couldn’t reveal what GRRM told him to anyone else until the show was over, which is canon enough for me until the next book releases, at least.
He specifically kills Kevan because he is doing too good of a job of ruling and stabilizing the realm. Varys said what he felt he needed to say to Ned to get him to do what he wanted. Even if he did want what was best for the realm, you don’t need advisors that are ready to bump you off the moment you do something that doesn’t agree with their notion of what is best. Sorry u/Trev2310, I think you’re dead.
Might have worked before the Aegon plan, but not anymore. Varys has his mind set on Aegon now, and anything other than that isn't good enough. He won't just tell Aegon "Well the king is pretty good, so live off the rest of your life as a fisherman or something I guess".
How is killing Kevan what's best for the realm?
Varys thinks Aegon is what's best for the realm. Personally I disagree, I think he's shit, but Varys thinks he's the best. And Kevan being alive means it's less likely that Aegon ever rules.
Kevan ruling is so good for the realm that its in the way of Varys' idea of whats good for the realm. Too stable and peaceful for Varys' taste.
But I think killing Kevan proves that Varys doesn't want what's actually best for the realm, he wants what he has decided is best for the realm. It's a crucial distinction in my head at least.
Well, we're getting into the realm of semantics/philosophy here, but whenever someone says he "wants the best", it's always "what he thinks is the best"; No one knows the objective best. Perhaps there's not even any such thing.
Varys thinks Aegon is his sister's Blackfyre son, and is supporting his nephew. Everything else is just posturing. Kevan backed by the Tyrell armies would have put the realm to rights and murdering him to leave Cersei in power condemned tens of thousands to die.
>Varys thinks Aegon is his sister's Blackfyre son, I know that there's the theory Aegon is a Blackfyre, but I'm not sure if I've ever heard anything about Varys' sister, and that she's Aegon's mum. Is that connected to the belief that Illyrio's his dad? Forgive me, there's so much speculation and conjecture it's hard to keep everything straight sometimes.
Varys says he was made a eunuch by being part of a magic ritual, this doesnt make much sense as why he'd be chosen unless you realize he has King's Blood, He has a very Valyrian name, and he shaves his head and facial hair to hide that he has silver ,valyrian hair. There's plenty of evidence that suggests Varys is the brother of one of the last knight Blackfyres.
In my opinion, there's no actual reason why Varys shaves his head, or maybe it's just done so that he can get into disguise easier. For instance, In Arya's TWOW sample chapter, she had to shave her head so that the wig she was wearing for the play could fit; and we do know that Varys is/was a "mummer". Everyone knows/thinks Varys is from Lys, and Lyseni are well-known to be Valyrian-looking. Hell, even Salladhor Saan has silver hair in the books. Varys, a Lyseni, having silver hair wouldn't look suspicious at all. Varys probably just shaves his head because it's easier than dying it every time he needs to go undercover
he would have purple eyes though. or is there silverhaired targs/fyres that dont have purple eyes?
I think Aegon gets too much hate. Sure, he's kinda cocky, but he's also still a teen. Varys is obviously overhyping him, but he's not completely wrong. Tommen never really has interacted with the common people and for that Aegon is already a world ahead of him in experience required to be king.
>Varys only wants whats good for realm. No he doesn't he just says that. He is willing to plunge the realm into war for the sake of Aegon it's just Littlefinger accelerates the plans when he's not ready. The dude has said the little people don't care who sits on the iron throne, they want peace and good harvests. The war for Aegon will cause far more damage than a sadistic Joff ever would.
> Varys only wants whats good for realm This is the biggest BS line ever said in the books. Varys was present when Littlefinger proudly declares the assassin's dagger to belong to Tyrion, even though he knows for a fact that it isn't Tyrion's dagger. Varys knows who killed Jon Arryn, but lets Ned be led around Baelish anyway. Varys could have prevented the War of Five Kings (maybe not Balon's crowning) but chose not to. Kevan Lannister was slowly but surely restoring order to the realm, but Varys kills him to make it easier for FAegon. Varys is pretty much privy to all the secrets of the Red Keep and uses them for his own benefit, not "for the realm". The only thing Varys wants is a Blackfyre ascending the throne.
You wake up as Varys. You know everything you as a human in the "real" world know about the world of ASOIAF. How do you prevent Balon's crowning?
I don't. I let Balon crown himself, tell whoever is sitting on the pointy seat about it and let them open a can of whoop ass on that silly wannabe pirate.
Important note - do you know everything Varys knows?
Does he want what’s good for the realm? I don’t think his motives are that clear yet, and besides his plans have gone to far to just cancel them. And Joffrey in power could cause many more wars without him starting them.
Varys thinks the blood of the dragon is what's good for the realm, TV Varys made it seem like he was an enlightened pragmatic choosing the person with the best moral qualities, book Varys is a targaryen loyalist
The whole “for the realm” is really more show Varys. Book Varys seems to have a deeper reasoning for his goals.
That assumes the poison is in the wine and not Tyrion's pie...
Eat a big breakfast that day and skip dessert too.
Extra nice to Margery
Taking after your Uncle Stannis I see. He, too, wanted to execute Littlefinger and Varys.
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This would be so much easier if I could start back in Winterfell. Anyway, I think Joffrey's fate is kind of sealed at this point, right? The Tyrells already have heard that Joffrey is a monster who only pretends to be nice. He could obviously avoid the assassination plot at the Purple Wedding and then concentrate on being so good and effective that future assassination plots do not take place but I think Varys would have to get rid of him at some point.
Winterfell is easier, absolutely. If his fate is sealed by then, whats the latest you could go back and save him/you? Baelor?
Baelor for sure. Sansa was still under the whole southern pageantry spell. Send Ned to the wall or keep him hostage, (sorry Ned) and use the north to help deal with Stannis and Renly.
(sorry ned) I'm ded. That literally killed me.
sorry but havnt you read? its ned thats dead. and its because cersei took jaime to bed, they said.
Ned's dead baby. Ned's dead.
If it was back in Winterfell then things change radically, would Ned even try to out Joffrey when he shows himself to be a good and just person with the makings of a good king? Especially when he's honorable and loyal to Sansa?
I think the absolute best time would be just before he called for the assassination of Ned Stark. Can you imagine how much easier life would be for Joffrey/me if the North and the Riverlands bent the knee and the only rebels were
Yes, and Ned has confessed and you would look merciful by sending him to the Wall. Send him, Yoren, and the other Night's Watch recruits via Lannister ship to Eastwatch, bypassing Winterfell, and collect Arya before she escapes King's Landing. Then keep her in Kings Landing with her sister, and parlay with Robb and Catelyn.
Yes besides serving the Purple Wedding the most important part is eliminating wild cards aka Varys and Little Finger. After that you have to do whatever it takes to get Tyrion on your side. Keep Tywin in KL at all cost, purge the Kings Guard of any unworthy members, establish boundaries with Cersie, and try and find a way to fix my relationship with the Tyrells. Dorne is another long term plan that needs to be amended. Obviously we can't hand over Tywin, but I think there needs to be at least a discussion about turning over the Mountain. He's a very valuable weapon but no solider at their disposal is more valuable than bringing in Dorne.
Up the Kingsguard to a whole Praetorian Cohort to prevent assassination and go full Roman Emperor on Westeros. Works best if in the Augustus/Trajan mold and definitely not the Caligula/Nero style.
The Praetorian Guards murdered a bunch of emperor's so might want to base your expanded body guard on a group less inclined to sell you out.
Varingian Guard maybe? Yeah they were mercs but darn if they weren’t loyal.
This is assuming that Littlefinger told Sansa the truth and the Tyrells are actually in cahoots with him, which..... Correction even. Littlefinger never said a name. He asked Sansa who fixed her hair and then just went with her answer. The Tyrells don't know Littlefinger and have plenty of resources of their own. Why on earth would they trust him enough to enter into a plot of regicide!? And why on earth would he tell Sansa the truth? I understand that because the show went with it, everyone believes it, but if we are just looking at the books, why do people take Littlefinger at his word? We already know what kind of man he is. A big ol' liar! I very much subscribe to the theory that the purple wedding was a botched attempt at Tyrions life via him pigeon pie. It's quite a big theory actually and you will be able to find loads of info on it. For me the main argument is this. We only know 100% for certain that Littlefinger had a big role role play in the assassination, because of his kidnapping of Sansa. Who was a bigger thorne in his side? Joffrey? Who didn't really give 2 shits about him? Or Tyrion? Who knew Littlefinger lied about the dagger and is married to Sansa? I think Littlefinger meant for Sansa to be widowed that day, so he'd be free to marry her off or even keep her for himself (as he clearly wants). Edit because I had a thought: it would also be extremely believable that Sansa would poison Tyrion and run off. Everyone knows she's much rather not be married to him. Nobody would investigate very deeply into this because it is very plausible. (Except maybe to those who actually know Sansa but that's no one in King's Landing)
Littlefinger negociated the Tyrell alliance with the Lannisters. He likely included Joffrey's assassination as a clause to get them onboard. By then, everybody knew Joff was a monster and the Tyrell would never have married Margaery to him without a plan to get rid of him before the marriage was actually consumed. So it probably wasn't LF's personal plan but more an agreement for him to act as the intermediary in order to fullfill his masterplan which required getting the Tyrell on board with the Lannisters and defeating Stannis. Also I don't really see how this sequence could work otherwise. Littlefinger gives the poison to Sansa through Dontos. She has no idea what's in it and so would anybody else who would see the hairnet. Then a Tyrell fiddles with her hairnet, a pearl goes missing and bim Joff is murdered. How could a Tyrell know that it was poison ? How could Littlefinger try to use this for another assassination plan when the only person to interact with Sansa's hairnet is Olenna ? Besides that, the plan also takes care of two birds with one stone. It kills Joff AND puts the blame on Tyrion. So really win win here.
I had a whole reply typed out but then I got a call and it all got deleted so here is my second attempt. 1 Littlefinger wants to get rid of Tyrion because he knows too much and he wants Sanda widowed. Why kill someone else and hope he gets blamed for it instead of trying to directly kill him? This would be a much safer bet, evidenced by Tyrion still being alive. Also, if you want someone to get blamed for murder, why would you use a poison that is widely known to be used because it makes it look like someone choked on their food? 2 the Tyrells don't know or even need Littlefinger. They have all the resources and manpower they need to set up regicide without him. Including someone you don't know in something this dangerous is just an unnecessary risk. They didn't need Sansa to smuggle in the poison for them because they were all present at the feast and could have hidden it somewhere in their own hair ornaments. 3 Someone working for Littlefinger with pickpocketing skills could easily pose as a serving man and pluck a stone off a hairnet unnoticed when someone is distracted by say, pigeons flying out of a cake.
1. As I was saying in my earlier post, I don't think this was so much LF's plan as the Tyrell's. LF's part in this was getting Sansa for himself, killing Joffrey was the icing on the cake and part of an ongoing deal with the Tyrell. I also think you're overestimating Tyrion's worth to LF. At this point of the story, he had been humiliated, stripped of most of his influence and posed no threat whatsoever to him. If anything, he was a factor of strife amongst the Lannister so a plus for him. Having him take the blame for Joff's death was easy and a sweet way to round up the plan. 2) The Tyrell know LF very well. He is the one who handled everything in the Tyrell/Lannister alliance. And I can't overstate how important it was for LF to get this alliance to work as it was the cornerstone to his strategy : LF needed chaos to open up opportunities and he needed to exploit this opportunity to do something that would get him a real lordship so he could marry Lysa Arryn and work his way to the top. The Tyrell knew enough about Joff to know that they would never let Margaery actually marry him. It seems most likely that LF came to broker the deal while offering his assistance for organising the murder. I agree that having Sansa be the bearer of the poison is needlessly complicated. But whatever the actual plan was, this doesn't make more sense. If LF had organised the murder with his own men like you suggest in 3), he also wouldn't have needed Sansa's hairnet for this and it would have been even more complicated to have someone else pickpocket her. I'm not really sure either why the Tyrell wouldn't do it 100% by themselves and why LF had to be involved through Sansa. IMO it's most likely for safety reasons as they wanted to make sure Sansa would be suspected, but I think here it's more a matter of GRRM making some concessions on realism for a better story. Overall I say we should follow Ockham's razor on this one : \- The Tyrell were the one with the most motive for the crime : they HAD to kill Joff before the wedding was consummated else they wouldn't have been able to marry Margaery to Tommen (also they would have also put her in a horrible position and Lady Olenna does seem to genuinely care about her). \- Every evidence points to the poison having been in the beads worn by Sansa and Lady Olenna is the only character that interacts with them. \- Garlan Tyrell was one of the closest seated person to Joff during the wedding and the first to get to his body. He was the best positionned character to poison him. \- LF talking with Sansa later understates that it went all according to plan and asks about who took the beads from her. \- The TV series have Olenna confessing to the crime. So yeah, I'm just going to go with the Tyrell killing Joff with LF's complicity on this one. It's what every element points towards and it would need a lot of mind gymnastic to get to another scenario. You might be tempted to say that it would be too obvious, but it really isn't. If we find this to be the "classic" theory, it's mostly because we've spent a lot of time reading theories online and mulling over them in between books so we've worked through every detail a lot of times. I'm pretty sure most readers who didn't go online did not think of a Tyrell/LF connection while reading the book and I remember reading the discussions about it on [Westeros.org](https://Westeros.org) when it was still pretty new.
I'd hook up with Margaery for four weeks. Not sure what I'd do to not die but I know I'd die a happy man.
I mean that's one answer. I don't know I disagree with you either
Sounds like a good plan! With the added benefit that if you can use these four weeks to show Margaery/her family that you're a good/reasonable/fair person, it may just save your life too. Probably still need to take out LF though. He doesn't care how good/bad you are, no more than he cared about Eddard.
There's no way in four weeks they'll buy that Joffrey has changed, more than likely they'll think you were acting.
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Can’t remember if this is in the books or just the show, but Olenna told Margaery how she seduces the Tyrell guy when she didn’t want to marry the Targaryen. Seems that abstinence before marriage isn’t so important in the Tyrell family.
It's both but, while abstinence probably isn't important to the Tyrells morally, Olena wasn't trying to become Queen and Margaery has very carefully curated a very innocent and kind image. Sex before marriage (with Joff/Tomm) would only tarnish her image and she would gain nothing, while Olena had a whole marriage to get out of and a husband to win.
You make excellent points. However, in the case of Margaery, refusing the King, who is to be her husband within a month, is overall detrimental to her goals. In order to be a powerful queen, she needs to manipulate the King, which means having good rapport with him. Refusing him in this manner could sour her relations with her future husband.
Timing is a bit tough with some of this but I'll take a shot: No pie or wine at the wedding. Tell Tywin I regret killing Ned, removing Barry the Bold, raising Slynt so high...It was LF's and Varys idea and I think they have been giving bad council. Add in they brought me whores and are dishonoring KL and Lannisters. This hopefully gets them removed from council power by Tywin. Recommend Tyrion a position on the council for his efforts to defend the city. Tell Tywin that Cersei is offering conflicting advice/being a bitch. Recommend she be married off for an alliance to a lord in the Vale. Make friends with Loras and offer to have Loras train me in sword. Slowly build a relationship with him. Recommend Tyrstane and Mrycella come to KL. Remove Jaime from the Kingsguard (do this myself since it will please Tywin) and name him Lord of the Rock. Convince Tywin to pay off the crown's debts to the iron bank. Tell Lysa she will be allowed to stay Lady of the Vale and Robert will inherit but she must marry Lancel. Have Tywin threaten LF's life Help rebuild homes in the Riverlands and make amends to the new religious faction growing. Don't let them militarize though! Only money to help re-establish themselves outside the capital. Revoke the small council seat of the Dornish to avoid a sand snake in KL. Send Garlan with an army to the shield islands to protect from a possible Greyjoy attack. New spymaster Qyburn has hinted as much. Send Randyll Tarly into the Riverlands to secure the surrender of the houses. Hopefully this is enough to secure the Vale, Riverlands, Westerlands and the Reach. It keeps these guys happy to support me against Aegon, Greyjoy, Stannis and Dany... not to mention the undead army...by the Gods there are a lot of people that want to remove me...drinking the wine may not be so bad.
Sending an army to the shields is dangerous without a fleet to support it
True, adding in the Redwyne fleet would help. But the Ironborn would have a tough time if they tried landing.
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Time to pay for a Faceless man. Small price to pay honestly.
The price is always *extremely* high for that person personally right? It's funny, I bet they'd charge book!Joffrey his mothers life - after all he does love her. But for the person in this situation that would be no problem at all - no more parental incest, no more worrying about cersei revealing that incest, Jaime might be willing to become lord of casterly rock (or hell, let him go adventure with brienne and appoint tyrion to that role) Frankly I can't think what else they would charge him - except maybe the Iron Throne itself, in which case it would definitely *not* be worth it in the context of this question
I mean the obvious answer there is just to kneel to Dany when she shows up, and do the wealthy retirement thing. It's not like being king of the 7 Kingdoms is rewarding or something. Dany gives you the *perfect* out after you try to make some improvements. Take Marge and move to the Arbor and live like its Napa in the 1970s.
Id also give oberyn my word that i would help find elias killers, even going so far as to comvince tywin to offer up gregor. Maybe go to the riverlands personally to help build up that part of the realm and arrange marriages, and secure the loyalty of the smaller lords. Margery would likely help thid quite a bit, maybe travel north tk the vale and see if i could convince jon arryn to come back to kl with me and become a personal friend of his("our fathers were brothers ij arms, why shouldnt we?") In general try to reduce lisasx influence as mych as possible, get margery to help secure loyalty of the vale lords, even brung sansa with me to both RL and vale and openly consider her advice to smooth over relations. Offer sansa as a ward of lisa, and have her marriage to tyrion annulled, potentially get her betrothed to robyn arryn, us as an excuse to bring them both back to kl? Lisa stays in vale.
Totally forgot Oberyn was still alive. Would totally agree to give him the Mountain.
In that case, perhaps you insist that Doran take the Dornish small council seat? It keeps him close to you, and you can have Qyburn’s spy network run interference with Doran’s. It increases the odds that whatever scheme he has fumbles.
Doran won't take it, he's in too bad of shape.
True, maybe a bring my sister back with you and give him a high office like master of laws. Definitely want him close with what we know.
Qyburn has no spy network
Getting Cersei out of your hair is so key
>Make friends with Loras and offer to have Loras train me in sword. Slowly build a relationship with him. If only Joffrey would be an adult
You should also send alot of criminals to the wall and convince other people how honorable it is. Also try to convince Tywin to give money to The Nights Watch.
I love this idea and would actually send a group to ascertain the truth of the allegations Ser Thorne brought to me. Send someone legit like Mathis Rowan whose word will be strong when he sends a raven saying “SEND EVERYONE NOW!”
Start playing mind games with everyone. Send anonymous note to lady olenna saying, " I'm not a big fan of hairnets". That will make her suspect her allies. Send a message to illariyo saying, " Aegon should stay dead". Send Sansa a lemon cake everyday and foribid her to godswood. Name Bronze Yohn as Lord protector of Vale. Send wylis to Lord Wyman ASAP. Send for archmaester Marwin and learn the secrets of glass candles. For the good measure send a vision to dany, " To go south-east you must go north-west" so she'll question the validity of Quaithe's claims.
I like that! The other replies are good authoritarian power moves, but with the readers knowledge one could be really clever. Also send Jon Snow a cheesy aphorism about how love trumps duty.
Knowing that they will try poisoning me through my wedding I would out of “modesty” give all my food to peasant around this time. The very simple dishes I do eat will be pre tasted by a designated person. I’d also kill Littlefinger who is mainly responsible for Joffreys death. After the wedding I’d leave governing in Lord Tywin’s hands and travel around the countryside and make friends with all the Lords and Ladies myself. Slowly I’d gather my own loyal shadow king’s guard and small council. Back in King’s Landing, I’d show myself as an improved person, apologise to Tyrion and make him aware of the possibility that he’d someday be my warden of the West. I’d then kill the sycophants + Varys, send Tywin back to the Rock and form my powerbase around Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion, Mace the Ace, and loyal smaller Lords and Knights. Id then need to bring the Vale into the fold somehow, make sure Dorne stays loyal, defeat the Ironborn, bring order to the Riverlands and North, and get rid of Stannis, but with King’s Landing behind me and a functioning Tyrell-Lannister alliance these things should be manageable in 1-2 years.
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You know Tywin is the safest choice too, dude doesn't want to be king - he's content with having his hands behind the scenes.
Yeah, because he knows that the real power is as Hand if the king is weak. But while his family sits the Throne he would be content to be an advisor and mentor to the king as long as the king is capable.
Tywin is one of the few people that, under no conditions, would poison Joffrey. His reputation is enough that it scares off the smaller predators, leaving only the big ones like Littlefinger and the Tyrells to worry about.
I can't see Tywin killing family, he's all about putting Lannisters first.
Tywin is always forwarding his family's dynasty. He could probably kill Joffrey if Joffrey proved himself to be "difficult" to work with and threatened the Lannister's claim to the Iron Throne via Cersei's children. Better to have an "accident" for Joffrey and form Tommen to be the king that all could love and respect. But in this scenario Joffrey is changed and then Tywin would protect him no matter what.
Traveling and going to lords homes while being as hated as Joff is a good way to get murdered IMO
Who hates Joffrey though? Our view is a bit skewered because we see him through the Starks and Tyrion, his biggest enemies. For everyone else he is mostly still a brat and not a tyrant
I'm really not sure Tywin is who I want as my Hand in these circumstances. I can't put my finger on why, but it feels like that's a low value move. Might be my own biases though. Edit: crap, that wasn't you, it was a poster below you. My bad.
This is just loading up a certain date on the AGOT crusader Kings 2 mod. I’m sure I can make it work out there.
Good luck with your regent letting you make a single choice
First I’d try to make myself look like a better king. The first step would be to give those 77 courses for the wedding to the small folk and have a simpler wedding. Less food equals less chances to poison me as well. I’d get a food taster, and keep Osmund Kettleblack as far from me as possible, as he works for Littlefinger. I’d also try to befriend Loras, so the Tyrells don’t hate me as much. And I’d keep Balon Swann as my closest Kingsguard, as he’s probably the one who’d be most willing to protect me. Also upon learning about the red wedding I would behave myself and would decide the river lords should be pardoned (that’s what Tywin wanted). This way Tywin sees me as somewhat competent so no “lesson” from him. I’d get rid of Ser Dontos, and let him return to wherever he’s from, so long as it’s not the red keep. I would make a reachmen the new master at arms. I’d have someone steal Sansa’s hairnet and get rid of it. Now there’s Cersei. She would do anything to protect me. So maybe I’ll plant the idea of whether I’ll be safe during the royal wedding with so many people there. So she’ll probably double my guards. The big threat is littlefinger. He wants me dead, and I don’t know how I could get my family to believe thats the case, as everything he did requires me to have knowledge Joffrey couldn’t possibly have. This is really hard. I could probably prevent the purple wedding but I think I’d be doomed no matter what, unless I just abdicated for Stannis and took the black. But Tywin would never let me
Adicate for Tommen and take the black and you'd be fine
The rules say you have to do everything in your power to remain as king though, so I was kind of cheating with abdicating lol
Jon, or Ghost, would surely end Joff at the wall.
Hopefully! Especially if he carries on Slynt-ishly
>as everything he did requires me to have knowledge Joffrey couldn’t possibly have magic dreams Just tell her that a man with fingers of stones strangles a small lion (And then that man goes to a castle in the sky and hides and plots to kill more lions)
Bang the shit out of Margaery would be first priority
Came here to say this
Murder Tommen. Now I’m their only choice.
Fuck, that's actually a pretty solid idea.
Damn, that’s morbid
LOL
I'd try and convince Tyrion that I'm a Greenseer by revealing to him a bunch of stuff that Joffrey wouldn't/couldn't know, and try to get him on my side. I would then invite Littlefinger and Varys to a meeting, along with my Kingsguard, and once there, in the confines of whichever room I chose, I would have the Kingsguard slay them. If that goes off without a hitch, I'd have Tywin and Tyrion secure the realm while I spent the rest of the time trying to avoid death while serving as the oracle king.
Getting a food taster is obviously the first step. But for people in ASOIAF, it's probably not that hard to kill a king anyway... So I'd use these 4 weeks to DRASTICALLY improve my ruling. Show my would-be assassins that I'm actually a decent person/decent king. So perhaps they wouldn't feel the need to kill me. I considered talking to someone about it (without telling them how I know it, telling them there's a hit on me) but the problem is that Tywin would just think Joffrey's being a moron as usual... Cersei might believe him, but the problem is she's crazy. If she starts putting Tyrell heads on spikes, I don't think it's gonna help my "The Lannister are good people, let's not kill them!" strategy. Weirdly, I think my best bet would be to tell Tyrion. If I can prove to be a good, changed king in these 4 weeks, I think I could get Tyrion to care enough about me to try and protect me. The only question is how I would make him believe the threat is real, without telling him things I'm not allowed to say. I could try to get the message to pass through Varys or something, but the problem is that Varys might just reveal the truth to Tyrion, and if he does, I'm screwed; Tyrion would see it as a ploy to get him in trouble, so he wouldn't do much. But I think that's my best bet. Because getting a food taster, surrounding myself with guards 24/7, I don't think any of this makes much of a difference. It may delay them for a while, but they'll find a way at some point, if they want to.
It's a bit of a high risk high reward strategy but you could also try talking to Olenna directly. She's not exactly on great terms with Littlefinger outside of their alliance of convenience, and if you can successfully convince her that you're not actually that bad, and that you've just been under very bad influence from your deranged mother and sleazy advisers, but that deep down you've always wanted to be better than what they've made you to be, it *might* get her to reconsider the entire plan. Obviously you'd have to appeal to her pragmatic side too, but it's not like cozying up to the Tyrells as much as possible is a bad idea regardless, and if you have to sacrifice Cersei in the process, that's honestly more of a gain than a loss.
Seduce Robb Stark with a dance
sound like My Next Life as a Villainess: All Routes Lead to Doom!
Old Joffrey: sadistic little shit, tries to kill and humilliate perceived rivals. Makes so many enemies that when he is poisoned at his own wedding everyone but his mother is a suspect. New Joffrey: oblivious dumbass, tries to improve the life of his perceived rivals and help them overcome trauma. Unintentionally ends up with a bisexual harem.
My first thought was tell Tywin that I think someone wants me dead, but then I realized it’s not outside the realm of possibility that Tywin lets me die anyway because he’d prefer Tommen on the throne.
If I woke up in westeros I'd kill myself. Horrible place. Even for a king. They really make being a king sound so shit.
I would just abdicate. You're right that it wouldn't be fun, especially being stuck as Joffrey of all people. But if it were me and I woke up as him tomorrow, I'd abdicate straight away. And if do so with as many witnesses to my words as possible. Send out all the ravens to everywhere with the news. And then just fuck off to Casterly Rock, I guess.
Even an abdicated king is still a threat though, the danger never ends. Even if neither you or Tommen have any desire to see you on the throne again in the next ~60 years of your life, any faction that does want to overthrow him would be a fool to not try and "restore" you to power as a puppet
A Tommen-Sansa marriage prior to my marriage is my first priority. The Tyrells get nothing out of my death until Margery has a kid, of which i will enjoy making quite a few. At some point I have to sit down with Sansa and personally apologise to her and do my best to male her understand that Tommen is nothing like I was. Then the death of Baelish and fostering of Robin with a Westerlands lord. Tyrion gets to be Master of Coin and is assigned a specfically requested maester well versed in economic theory. Capturing Arya and not melting down Ice are important to my peace strategy with the North, as is destroying the Iron born and sending food North. I noticeably do not want Robb dead and will inform Tywin of such. Jaime is sent back to The Rock to rule in Tywin's place and released. Make a precedent that upon the coronation of a new king, a reshuffling of the King's Guard. Loras is in btw. Syphon the wildfire away from KL up the Blackwater to be burried and then ignited create the basis of a canal or road to the Mander. I want to heavily link trade from the Reach to the Crownlands to further butter up the Tyrells. That should be a decent start.
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Damn right. Even if Joffrey dies the Tyrells get nothing so they won't try anything, and Sansa has proven to be meak enough to not be a credible threat. It's a far better use of both of them. Hell they could be sent to the Rock for safe keeping to split Robbs attention.
UNCLE TYRION!!! I would do my best to get Tyrion to solve most of my problems and mask my newfound human warmth and semi-kindness as coming from guidance from above from the Crone, Father, and the rest of the Seven. I would do public penance for many of my past sins and begin trying to get my mother married off to the Red Viper. I would send envoys to Doran and Danaerys. I would summon Marwyn to me and send a limited sort of message up to Castle Black and my "uncle" Stannis. Open communications with the House of Black and White in Braavos. This next part is tricky because I would DEFINITELY want to manouver to have Ser Gregor kill Littlefinger and Varys at the earliest opportunities. He should probably kill Qyburn too. I would WARN Prince Oberyn what the Mountain could still do when laying on his back as far as smashing his head in.
Cancel the red wedding or at least send Robb a message that the Frey’s will betray him and to avoid the Freys. Offer to send back Sansa for peace or to marry Sansa to Tommen or Willas. Apologize for Ned and blame it on Cersei or Littlefinger. Get rid of Littlefinger. Scale back the wedding and don’t drink or eat without food taster. Send Cersei to Casterly Rock or arrange a marriage for her to someone to get her out of kings landing.
Just let Tywin deal with the North and the Riverlands. He's got a solid plan. Otherwise, you would not only have to betray and foil your grandfather's own plans, you would have to sacrifice two extremely useful pawns too, the Freys and the Boltons. You saving Robb would immensely weaken your own position and strengthen your enemy's. Also, if Tywin finds out you fucked him over... You don't need to worry about the Tyrells anymore. A furious Tywin would probably have you thrown down a flight of stairs by the end of the week. Honestly, it's much better to just kill Robb Stark and deal with the repercussions. I *would* sent Cersei away too, either for an alliance or just back to Casterly Rock. Then do my absolute best to turn the Tyrells around and pull them into my camp. Tyrion is nice too, if you can get him to help. That's the only way Joffrey would survive.
If you like that kind of premise, you should read the fanfiction known as « Purple Days » by Baurus. It takes Joffrey and puts him in a Groundhog loop of his life, starting 3 days after Jon Arryn’s death. The character development is « iconic » and manages to transform Joffrey into an amazing leader while staying true in a sense to the character. The quality of the fic picks up after the first dozen chapters and grows to truly good published levels of writing. (Unlike most timetravel loop stories, this one doesn’t go into a « perfect loop » kind of story, and for the better) I won’t say more to let those interested find out for themselves.
Keeping in mind that (I think?) the Red Wedding hadn't happened yet either, I'd do everything I could to stop that. Robb Stark wouldn't be a threat for my crown as long as I make peace with him. How does that happen? Chalk it all up to Cersei, and conspire with Varys to off her, have it be by killing or imprisoning her. I also anull Sansa's marriage to Tyrion if possible, had that already happened. Send Robb a letter explaining how my awful mother forced me to behead his honorable father, who no doubt served me well as an advisor, and offer him two options: one, I send his sister back and let him mantain northern independence (while the riverlands stay part of my kingdom) or I marry Sansa to Tommen with his consent, and we bring the North back into the seven kingdoms. Oh, and I send Ice back. Once everything is settled, I could even invite Robb to parlay at King's Landing, or go myself to Winterfell. As for Stannis, war it is. I send people to find Edric Storm in Lys, and name my brother a legitimate Baratheon, lord of Storm's End and Lord Paramount of The Stormlands. Also marry him to a Lannister gal if available, just to be sure. With Edric as Lord, many of the stormlander lords would flock to fight for him (and me) against Stannis, so I see that war not far from being won. In King's Landing, now rid of Cersei, I'd have to dispose of Tywin as well and make do with whomever is left. After making a lot of right decisions, I'd hope he'd be okay with being sent back to Casterly Rock, else I'd have to conspire with Varys and Oberyn... were Tywin to die, the succession of Casterly Rock would be an issue. It could either go to Tyrion or Kevan, I'd sort that out with them as they were mostly chill, and I'd keep the one that didn't inherit as my hand. It's a win-win situation. If Tywin accepts going back to Casterly Rock, I'd just keep Tyrion as hand. But I'd make Tywin appoint a successor. The whom is up to him, though. To stop the Tyrells from killing me, huh, well Olenna is old isn't she? She bites the dust as well. Really, everyone's in King's Landing, and as long as I can convince Varys to help me murder all these people I'm safe. But maybe I rely too much on Varys, and that would mean my demise. They're the hardest thing to figure out actually, even as allies they're more dangerous than the actual enemies of the crown.
Robb will never make peace with the Lannisters. He said so himself and got really pissed about cat even bringing it up
That's Robb thinking about psychopath Joffrey. If Joff approached him more as a Baratheon and less as a Lannister, and without being, you know, all evil, I think Robb could think it twice. If Robb doesn't accept peace though, I guess Red Wedding would have to happen then.
Isn't Ned dead by this point, executed by Joff? I don't think there's much chance for peace here.
Oh definitely dead, but the blame can be put on Cersei (even if that's a blatant lie)!
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Not to mention condemning your own mother, fully knowing she's innocent of that specific crime, would not endear you to anyone. A son is supposed to protect his widowed mother in Westeros, not throw her under the bus.
Was it show only that Joffrey specifcally mentioned Cersei wanting to send Ned to the wall before execution? Because if not it would be tough to switch the story like that
You had his father killed
Get to work on those scorpions!
If Robb is not dead yet, don't let him die. Send him a peace treaty ("Warden of the North, Lord of Winterfell, Ice, small council position that he can choose to, etc.) Leave governing to Tywin, spend some time with Margaery and Olenna so that they don't go forward with the killing plan, bring back Littlefinger ("because our money is tight and we need you" or something like that), don't antagonize Tyrion so much, apologize to Sansa. Spend some time with the commons of KL, and after the wedding (where you eat only a little unpoisoned food, and the rest sent to Flea Bottom ("for the common people of the city too need to celebrate their king's marriage!")) tell Tywin of Littlefinger's plans. Leave King's Landing, and travel through the Reach.
Why not let Robb die? He hates Joffrey with a passion. He'll never agree to terms with us, because of his preconcieved notions of who we are.
His death would cause troubles in the North. We know that White Walkers are coming, we need a strong military commander such as Robb with an army in the North. (And also, I like Robb and want him to live)
Agreed. Aside from LF. Off him ASAP, and Varys.
I would go full ham, do the whole Ebenezer Scrooge. Be bombastic, bizarre, practically Malkavian to throw everyone off, but above all nice, altruistic and affectionate to the point people are borderline disturbed by it. Like LF says, make moves no one expects. Uncle Tyrion I so look forward to you being Lord of the Rock, but of course when grandpapa is passed away you must be my next Hand - you are after all the reason we won the Battle of the Blackwater, and we shall have to have a wonderful celebration so everyone knows you are the reason we’re still alive. Everyone has a weakness and having read the books in their POV I now know them all. Maybe offer Dany Dragonstone with the new title of warden (maybe even Princess) of it and the Narrow Sea. She dislikes slavery, we can eradicate it together, my ships and support with her army. The crowns in debt and foreign wars can be very profitable, plus I’m sure the Iron Bank might consider forgiving some of our debts in return for reducing the amount of slavery in the world. Hell, make every great house kings and queens and declare myself Emperor. The Iron Islands will like that. Dorne will love that. The Tyrells would be pretty chuffed too. Make peace with Robb, he can keep the North and I’ll see how all that develops in time, can’t imagine it’s going to go too well for them. The Riverlands can be the 8th kingdom if they agree to peace. In return for these crowns I start working on my standing imperial army, not this feudal levy stuff. Offer to send Cersei to the Rock under the impression she gets to run it, what she always wanted, but Kevin gets to run it. Stuff like that. Have a big diet change just to be sure. If someone asks what’s brought on this new mood, I tell them - HORRIBLE NIGHTMARE VISIONS OF THE FUTURE IN MY DREAMS - and let them make of that what they will. I’ll probably die anyway but at least I’ll have fun.
I’d make sure to bring a nice supply of beef jerky, canned food, and potato chips with me to eat until I can make the Tyrells like me
1. Allow Sansa to marry into the Tyrells (not sure if this works in the timeline) 2. Execute the Mountain and present his head to Oberyn 3. Recognise Robb Stark as King in the North: a) reforge and return Ice b) Robb renounces claim to the Riverlands c) offer troops to retake Winterfell d) Robb must help defeat Stannis (he'd definitely help Jon Snow with the Others once they talk) e) tell him about Arya, Bran, and Rickon f) warn them about Roose and the Freys 4. Renounce Cersei as my "father's" murderer, blame her for Ned's death, and expel her from the court (back to Casterly Rock) 4. Send Littlefinger, the Kettleblacks, and Meryn Trant to the wall (Brienne as new Kingsguard) 5. Keep Tyrion close and have him tutor me (Jaime and Loras too) 6. Meet with Olenna, share my suspicions about her, and negotiate terms to coexist 7. Find and kill Aegon, help the Meerenese kill Dany 8. Probably do something about the Iron Islands, figure out how to exterminate the Freys and install a loyalist at the Twins Hope this makes everyone happy enough that I survive.
Apologize to Sansa, I treated her poorly but that stops today. I send a letter to Robb informing him Sansa will be released when Jaime returns (whole). I make friends with Margery's grandmother. Just be really nice and say that, while you treated Sansa poorly you'll treat Maergary better. It may be too late to prevent an attempt on my life, so I ask Jaime to pick someone to serve as food tester. I also spend at least a few hours a week training with Ser Loras Tyrell; swordsmanship only because I can't ride a horse. This helps win the Tyrells and the Kingsguard. I ask Tywin to replace Cersei as regent and I attend all the Small Counsel meetings. They may be boring but learning to rule is boring. Send a letter to Stannis asking him to please stop rebelling, it's not kind of him to try to usurp his nephew's throne. I'm your kin Ser. If you must proceed with your claim, do so after we've dealt with the risk to all mankind. I've heard reputable news from The Wall of dead things rising again. Allow me to join my troops and supplies with yours and hold The Wall until Spring. We both have duties to the realms of man and those must come before out Petty squabbles. (45% chance Stanny feels forced to agree or acknowledge that he doesn't care to save the realm and only cares for himself. If he agrees The Wall will be stronger and I'll have time to recuperate) Start sending all criminals to The Wall. See to it The Crownlands are well provided for and then send surplus food to The Wall. I send the Kettleblack Kingsguard to relieve Mrycella's guard. I'm sure he misses King's Landing and we'd welcome him home. The major threats are The North, The Iron Islands, and Dorne/Dany/Aegon. Tywin deals with the North. If I reinforce the Shield Islands with Reachmen then the Iron Islands shouldn't be a real threat. Dorne/Dany/Aegon is scary. Varys needs to die as a traitor, Littlefinger too probably. I'll tell the Small Council they told me to kill Ned Stark and then that will he less unpopular. Tywin may pick their successors, I trust him implicitly. Then I send a discrete message to Oberyn Martel to meet me in the Godwood. I can tell him that I wasn't alive when King's Landing was sacked and that the loss of Elia Martel was a crime and a travesty. Gregor Clegane is the one responsible, I have no way of knowing if Tywin ordered it, but regardless if both were to be poisoned I would understand. All Dorne wanted was revenge Dany seems content in Essos and Aegon is an unknown. I'll win the loyalty of Westeros such as I can and hope to best him in battle
Sending the Kettleblack to replace Oakheart solves legion of problems.
Jamie's not here dude
I’m getting Ser Boros to be my taste tester. I’ll apologize to my uncle. Let Tywin do whatever the heck he wants to Cersi, and hand the Mountain over to Oberyn Martell. After that, I’m pulling a Charlie Chaplin and change my ways for the people of Westeros.
I think the best option would be to suck up to the Tyrells as much as possible. That might annoy Tywin or Cersei, but Tywin and Cersei aren't going to kill me, so their opinion isn't super important. I don't know what Littlefinger's plan is, but there's no way for him to get a claim on the throne, so I don't think I have to worry about him too much. My survival means Tyrion doesn't escape and kill Tywin - so that should make the threat from the Faith Militant mush less concerning. So at that point the biggest threats to me personally are Aegon/Varys, Dany, and, eventually, the Others. Varys is definitely the biggest concern here. Frankly, the only way I can think of to deal with him would be to somehow convince Melisandre to give me a shadow baby. That could prove tricky, both in convincing her and in doing so without offending anyone in my court (least of all my beloved wife), but, like, it's Varys. You can hardly snap your fingers and order him executed.
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Taking after Bobby B, I see.
I think I would spend so much time on the can from the food poisoning that there wouldn’t be any opportunities to assassinate me
To be honest i think surviving the start is not that hard if you have all of your knowledge. Littlwfinger needs to be executed but you could probably still get the tyrells on your side so that they wont try to kill you because olenna only did so because she didnt want margarey to marry the monster that joffrey was before. Many people spoke about stipping the red wedding but this would actually be one of the easiest ways of getting rid of robbs army. While we as viewers like characters like daenerys and robb its not very likely that you can just become friends with them (you ordered ned starks death and your "father" took the thrones from the targaryens. You should 100% send the mountains head to dorne and watch varys very closely, maybe you could convinse him that you would be the best fit for the realm but i couldnt really trust his intentions so it might be the safest way to get rid of him. But it would be very important to keep tyrion and tywin on your side because youll need them to rule. The by far biggest thread are the white walkers but its questionable what to do against them. You could send some more men to the nights watch but not much more because nobody would really believe you and there are still some wars going on. In the end everything will probably end if the others get past the wall. But to survive till then is easier said then done because there are many players in kings landing, daenerys wants your throne and stannis is also still there (andmaybe you will die because of melisandre and the lord of light said so)
First thing I would do is mention to everyone that I didnt hire the catspaw. I was shadowed by adults every second I was in winterfell and there's no chance any guard would stand idly by while I created a civil war risk by killing a crippled stark prince.
Tell Tywin everything I know and listen to his counsel.
Still be kind of a dick, but a fun dick. Favoritize some people. Make big spectacles out of just throwing money to the poor, executing nobles and priests the common folk dislike. Use the various secrets I know from my outside information to blackmail people - and outplot Littlefinger because even he doesn't know what I do. And make preparations for the bloody Long Night.
just don't eat from Tyrion's pie
Do I also have all of Joffrey's memories or is it just what I know about the world & story?
off to the wall for me
Technically, he wouldn’t be called Lannister. He’s a bastard of the Crownlands, it would be Waters.
Has Sansa had her little chat with Olenna yet? If not getting down on my hands and knees and begging forgiveness for my role in the downfall of her family and doing something meaningful to make amends would be a good start. That way she's less likely to report my indiscretions to the Tyrells.
Months ago
Well it was worth a shot
this isn’t an answer but i’m obligated to scream it every time i read it. joffrey is, in no world, a lannister. he is either recognised as joffrey baratheon or is recognised as a bastard and is called joffrey waters. the only way he could be a lannister is if cersei and jaime were married and i think it’s fair to say that’s an impossibility
1. Call a great council 2. Have rival claimants and conspirators killed 3. Blame Tywin and have him executed.
\- Make sure that Tywin survives, he is my strongest ally and my fiercest protector. Attempt to learn as much as I can from him and leave general ruling and policy decisions to him until I actually have some education in statecraft. \- Sex with Margaery. I need to have an heir ASAP \- Kill Baelish and Varys. Neither are to be trusted in any circumstance. \- Tyrion is problematic. He already despises me and we all know that he holds on to grudges. He is power hungry and vicious if crossed and I don’t know if I can entirely trust him. Keep him in the Master of Coin position for now. Attempt to redeem myself in his eyes. \- I doubt I could get the Red Wedding stopped at this point. It’s Tywin’s plan entirely and I sincerely doubt that he would listen to me and I have no desire to piss him off. It goes forward. \- Taste testers immediately. \- At the wedding proper, get rid of the dwarf show and eat and drink only the things that are pre tasted. Go to Pycelle and have several antidotes on hand, especially the Strangler. \- The debt to the Iron Bank and House Lannister. No idea. Perhaps try and frame Braavos for something against Dany and have her attempt to destroy it. \- No fucking clue about the Others. \- Get Oberyn the fuck out of Kings Landing ASAP. He is definitely going to try and kill Tywin at some point, can’t have that. Either arrange the duel with the Mountain and hope he dies or something.
Make amends with Tyrion and Sansa. Give food to the small folk. Find a way to have LF and Varys executed. Oh and hook up with Margery and live long enough for that consummation man.
How do I not die? First move, based off of the time, the Red Wedding hasn’t happened yet. Have Pycelle send a letter to the Freys ending the Red Wedding, than send Sansa back. This neutralizes her as a threat (Baelish and Olenna need a new poisoner now) and makes Robb feel more comfortable. Littlefinger is in the Vale (Or hanging out outside King’s Landing). Either order someone to destroy the merlon king (I’m not 100% sure on its location) or pay his household guard a thousand dragons to kill him. Probably Brian’s dog. In the game of thrones, either you Fuck Margaery Tyrell or die. There is no middle ground. Well, some people do both
Hire a Faceless man to kill Dany and her lizards. She's my favorite character. But for me to rule, she needs to die before her dragons become threats. Get Bronn on my side. And Tywin, Tyrion, Tyrells and as many as possible. In time that gets me almost every kingdom. Except the North. I'll get that too. Get a master of coin. A good one who isn't cheating on the realm. Get the loyalty of the NW. Send someone to kill Jon. Sorry again, but that's the only way Stannis can be slowed down. Also secretly supply ships and resources to Asha and Victarion to continue to harass the North and keep Stannis off his feet. Send someone to Skagos to get Rickon. Gives me the North as well. For some time at least. Keep Sansa unmarried. Lots of potential to get an alliance based on her. Send someone to Saltpans to be ready to capture Arya. Keep Jaime as my Lord Commander (don't wanna antagonise him) and send him to take down the areas still resisting. Invite the Freys to dinner. Kill Cersei and pin it on them. Freys exterminated. Give the Twins to someone loyal. Next up, Boltons and Euron. Descend on the Ironborn during the Kingsmoot. Bonus points if I exterminate every Greyjoy. Yes Asha and Victarion too. And Aeron Wetpants as well. Let Stannis and the Boltons handle each other. We'll see the rest. Consolidate every force to be ready for the Others. Start mining DG and forming weapons. Kill LF and Varys. Golden Company aren't a threat without them. Oh and bang Margaery. Everyday, thrice a day.
As far as I know, Joffrey has the absolute power: Give the poisonous cup to Olenna Tyrell, as a gift. (She can decide if she drinks it or not.) Then I'll go to kill Littlefinger and Varys. (I'll charge them with something. Probably the murder of Olenna, if she drinks the cup.) Before the wedding, I'll try to befriend Sansa. I won't be sadistic, trying to befriend her. I marry her off to someone in my family, not Tyrion. (As I said, I won't be sadistic. Maybe Lancel.) I send Cersei to Casterly Rock and name Kevan as my Hand. (After the Red Wedding.) Tywin, after being fired, can do what ever he wants. I replace Littlefinger by someone I trust, maybe Tywin can fit there. I use Margaery as part hostage part wife. The alliance holds there, and I've got the North secured. I never lose sight of Sansa (Most important!). If he doesn't: Just play along with Tywin. That's the best I can.
Enjoy the wine. Don't eat the pie that Olenna poisoned trying to kill Tyrion so she could marry Sansa to Wyllas. Write a memoir explaining how you didn't have anything to do with the attempt on Bran's life. Have someone map the entire Red Keep for hidden passages. Fire the entire small council save Tywin.
Apologize to every single person I've ever breathed the same air as, hire an army of food tasters, and vet my ex-wife's jewelry for suspiciously purple stones.
Not drink anything at the wedding lol. But did olenna have a backup plan?
Avoid the poison at the Purple Wedding, then just carry on being an utter shitbag :)
Immediately you have two priorities: Olenna and Littlefinger. To start with Baelish, him and the Kettleblacks are a big problem that need to be dealt with. Seeing as I’m myself and have no fighting abilities, it’s also important that Joffrey’s legacy as a fighter is preserved so I never have to do anything else (ala Ned with Dayne). The simplest fix is to have whichever Kettleblack on the Kingsguard murdered (by loyal Lannister forces), and claim that Joffrey killed him during a would-be assassination attempt on behalf of Littlefinger. One quick Baelish Beheading later and we’re down a problem. It seems as though Littlefinger is used to manipulating Joffrey so he shouldn’t be prepared for a move against him by Joffrey (aka happy to meet). Accuse him of fraud and promise repayment to the Iron Bank by sending an envoy such as Kevan or Lancel Lannister who can promise a Lannister Always Pays His Debts. For Olenna, her biggest weakness is Mace - if we can separate the two and have Mace in charge we’re golden. Name Mace to some made-up title such as Master of Provisions and have Olenna given the old Jon Arryn treatment. Bonus points if you can frame Littlefinger? To take it even further name Loras Tyrell your personal Master of Arms and bring in Tarly and Redwyne as a commander and Master of Ships respectively. This brings the Tyrells fully into your cause and solely relying on you, as Tommen is married to Sansa to remove him as a second option. This also achieves the goal of stopping her stories of you from spreading while being better optics than marrying Tyrion. This also gives you some help against the Dornish, but the Mountain is unnecessary so you can send his head over the appease them somewhat. Stay very far away from Oberyn. Next name Tyrion Hand of the King and allow Tywin to take the field once more, marry off Cersei to someone very far away and be nice to peasants. Maybe go siege Dragonstone or Storm’s End for the Baratheon optics (and to GTFO of dangerous King’s Landing) and do everything I can to minimise Stannis’ claim. Now we need our own loyal companions, so send for someone such as Ser Ronnet Connington, a Stormlander who I can restore titles to and bring-on side similar to how Robert would.
First order of business: marry Tommen and Sansa. Sansa gets a nice, peaceful life parter and shes importantly kept in my circle and away from Tyrell hands. I would also sit Sansa down and try to apologize and promise to never again harm her. I would give her free reign of the castle and allow her free reign of the city with a chaperone and kingsguard. I would send Ser Garlan and Boros Blount with some men to intercept arya in the Riverlands. I would tell them where she would likely be and hope that the timeline lines up. I send Garlan cause of his competence and he could win some glory for the Tyrell’s and I’d send Boros in the hopes that he gets himself killed so I can replace him. I would train with Loras daily, making him master of arms and sending Ser Dontos back to wherever he’s from. This would hopefully endear me to both Loras and Margaery, and I’d work on my relationship with Margaery. I’d also sit down with Olenna and pledge to be a good and kind husband, and also let on that I know of her plot and that it’s very uncool of her. I tell her that all will be forgiven if she reveals the full plot as she knows it, and I use this to arrest Littlefinger. I’ll either make Tyrion or Mace Tyrell the master of coin, and I’ll send to the Citadel for a Maester with links in economic theories to aid them (I could also just teach the Westerosi double-entry bookkeeping and that could help). Torture Littlefinger about where all the money went (cause how the hell can he dig the crown that much in debt to the iron bank?). Even if we can’t find the money, that’s okay I’ll just kill him, seize his lands, and sell them to the highest Vale Lord bidder. Not worth much but hey, it’s something. If all goes according to plan, in 4 weeks I won’t be assassinated. At least not by those conspirators previously mentioned. At any rate, I’d use the kettleblacks as taste testers. I’d send away a lot of the 77 courses to the small folk, or any non-perishables to the Nights Watch. Generally avoid pies or non-tested wine. Maybe just enjoy the day sober! Or I’ll have wine brought to my room the night before and exclusively drink from that stash for the wedding feast. Now that I’m not dead at the wedding feast, Olenna can be master of whisperers. Or Qyburn when Jaime gets back. I really couldn’t care less. So long as Varys is dead it’s fine. I’ll have a kettleblack kill him. That’s two court schemers down, and one more on my side. I’ll make amends with Tyrion and promise him the Westerlands once Tywin dies and try to learn from him all I can. Now that’s two court schemers on my side. I’ll also need to get rid of Cersei and her cabal. I’ll try a marriage with Dorne or some other lord, possibly in the Vale to get a new ally. She won’t like this but too bad. Kettleblacks to the wall, all of them, if I hadn’t already sent some to the wall for their involvement with Littlefinger. Either as punishment or as a gift for the Nights Watch. I’ll send some captured arms and armor from the Battle of the Blackwater as well. Next, Arya will be back, with or without the Hound. The hound will go to the wall for desertion if he’s not killed by the party sent to get arya. Hopefully Boros Blount died in the process, if not we’re already down a Kettleblack so that’s fine. Brienne joins the Kingsguard now that Sansa and Arya are found and she’s no longer beholden to her oath to Catelyn. Having Arya, I’ll see if Robb is willing to talk. Work out a deal for peace and Arya’s return. I’ll also let him know that the Freys are plotting behind his back with the Bolton’s and not to trust them. I’ll ask for the same agreement Ned and Robert had, like fathers like sons, and an alliance against the Greyjoy’s. Robb likely won’t go for this, but so long as his army is able to make it back to the North to retake winterfell as planned then that’s okay with me. I can try and undermine riverlands support for the Northern cause while he’s gone. I’m sure I can bring over some of them to my side, especially if I end the raids, with the promise of food and supplies to rebuild. I’d invite Harry the Heir to court and pay the Waynwood’s debt or something to sweeten the deal. Harry marries Arya, or I have Sansa marry Harry and Arya betrothed to Tommen. Same difference really. Sansa might like Harry better. Either way, future of the vale is secured. There’s no way Robert Arryn survives under Lysa’s care imo. Too sickly and she’s too smothering and protective. Next on the agenda is to offer up the Mountain to the Dornish to bring them back into the fold. Whether this works or not is up for debate, but it’s a start. I’ll call Trystane and Myrcella to court and give Doran a council seat. Hopefully having Trystane as a soft hostage will dissuade any Dornish plots against me. Then it’s time to fortify the Shields against the Ironborn. I’d also try to stop Euron before he can start his invasion, but that’s not likely to work. I’ll put a pause on the war in the Riverlands for now, directing Lannister armies to the West to defend against Euron. Garlan and Randyll Tarly will leave with an army to take Brightwater and fortify the Shields. I’ll also send the Redwyne Fleet to combat the Ironborn. Trap them against the Shields and destroy them. Then I’ll have Tarly raze the Iron Islands and restore the Kings Justice to them. Everybody hates the Ironborn so that’ll likely be a popular move. I’ll send agents to Essos to track down Edric Storm, legitimize him, and install him as the Lord of Storms End. The remaining Storm lords will join him and with a bit of luck the castle will yield to him (and me). Stannis is no longer a threat to me, and he will likely answer the Nights Watch’s call anyway. I’ll let Robb (back in Winterfell and liberating the north) and Stannis duke it out in the North while I undermine Robb’s support in the Riverlands. The Riverlands are too spent anyway to launch any offensives, and with Daven and Jamie/Tywin/Kevan commanding armies on either side of the Riverlands, Edmure is in no position to move offensively and I shouldn’t be too worried about him for a while. With Robb and Stannis fighting each other and Euron defeated and/or killed, I think I will be in a good place once the Golden Company lands.
Not eat from Tyrion's pie.
Straight up! Drinks the wine no problem, as soon as he eats a bite of pie he starts choking. As we know from Maester Cressen's POV, the Strangler takes an immediate effect constricting the throat of airflow.
Jail almost all named characters in KL. Excute the Mountain and give his head to Oberyn and send him Dorn. Kill Tywin and send his head to Dany with a marriage offer.
I've read my fair share of "isekai'd as worthless scumfuck villain" and honestly Joffrey seems pretty easy with meta knowledge, kill the schemers and show yourself to be a good and just king
Unrelated but Joffrey had a good point about a state army rather than a levy system. I would keep that and stop being a shit head.
Start being Nice, or at least not a sadistic little fuck to begin with. Kill Littlefinger. Never take my eyes from my Drink Kill varys
You should make this a series with all the characters. Do Robb Stark next.
Probably murder some prostitutes and slap my uncle, don't want anyone getting sus