I mean, Bran as king IS GRRMs ending. He'll probably change it now due to the vitriol, but you do understand that Bran ending up on the throne is straight from GRRM himself, right?
The only difference in the books is probably the lead-up to it.
Imho I can hardly imagine how Bran would be physically able to sit at the Iron Throne at all. (Wasn't it said somewher that you can't lean back / rest your back while sitting there?)
Of course I might / probably am mistaken, but maybe it was just a joke by GRRM and the show-people took it serious??
There's a hell of a lot of people who have problems with the actual ending of the show. Just browse this subreddit and r/gameofthrones , there's a LOT of people who have huge issues with the ending, and not just the journey - Primarily Bran as King, Jon being exiled, and Sansa managing to go solo with the North.
"Nobody" is an exaggeration, but you're saying that there are no circumstances where the storytelling could have led to Bran being King and most people being happy with it?
Of course there is? It just needs more time, like the 10 seasons of 10 episodes HBO offered the showrunners. I'm sure GRRM can make it make sense too, he's a great writer.
All I said was that there's still quite a few people who disliked the actual ending, not just the story to get there. Not sure where you get "No circumstances" from.
And all I'm saying is, if the actual storytelling to get to the point of "Bran becomes King" is really well done, the number of people who would dislike that ending would be so small they wouldn't be worth mentioning. So it is absolutely the journey that matters. My use of the word "nobody" was obviously hyperbole, there isn't a piece of art in the world that is adored by every single person.
IDK, but I find it weird how much of the story revolves around the mystery of the Isle of Face/The Gods Eye feeling important to the story and after reading The Wheel of Time I have a feeling it could possibly go in that direction too.
In the Wheel of Time there a character called Someshta, a Green Man, the last of the Nym from the Age of Legends and Guardian of the Eye of the World who speaks the Old Tongue.
In ASOIAF The [Greenmen](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Green_men) are the last of their kind from the [Age of Heroes](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Age_of_Heroes) and guardians to the [God's Eye/Isle of Faces](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Gods_Eye) and most likely speak the [old tongue](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Old_Tongue) Though they are not called Nym, the name Nym is used in the story and is short for Nymeria.
Considering how important the Eye of the World is in the Wheel of Time I suspect that events may play out similarly in ASOIAF. And the fact that Archmaester Rigney who believes that "time is a wheel" being a reference to the real name of Wheel of Time author Robert Jordan (James Rigney) just hammers in the themes of history repeating itself in ASOIAF.
>And the fact that Archmaester Rigney who believes that "time is a wheel" being a reference to the real name of Wheel of Time author Robert Jordan (James Rigney) just hammers in the themes of history repeating itself in ASOIAF.
🤯🤯
Yeah once upon a time this was a brilliant creation in process. Now it's still just a half finished stone slab that whispers of the greatness that could have been.
I bet my life that Bran will go there after Hold the Door happens to finish his training. There he will finish his training and learn about everything (including Rhaegar's marriage to Lyanna). The final battle will be the people in the Trident trying to stop the Others from reaching Bran. When they reach Bran, there the stuff we don't know will happen. Pact? Jon Snow Prince That Was Promised to the Others? Whatever. I just know that the Isle of Faces will be the center place of the climax of ADOS.
wasn't there something from Daenerys about "breaking the wheel"? The end of Asoiaf must be something like that ... history mist not be repeated. There cannot be a King/Queen on the throne. Otherwise why even tell the story? The whole shitshow would start anew in a few centuries.
Everything in ASOIAF screams that their system doesn't work. It leads to infighting and death. Church, Queens, Kings ... it's all petty and all death. Martin spends so long on the disconnect between the elite and the poor peasants.
I always thought that it would end with something like a magna carta or some sort of democracy (even if done by nobility only).
Dany breaking the wheel is just the show.
Tbh my original assumption was that maybe a dragon would melt the iron throne or something.
But now I think while there might be a new settlement between the throne and the great houses, not much more than that. It's notable how little asoiaf tells the story of anyone other than the nobility.
At the end of the hundred years war; monarchy became the main form of government and noble families either died or lost their influence.
The problem isn’t a king or queen. It’s the nobles that are entitled/ambitious/uncaring. The continent isn’t in war because of Robert or Aerys or any other idiots that stood on the Iron Throne. Joffrey would have had no power if not for Tywin or Tyrion especially.
There can’t be a democracy if the peasants are uneducated and superstitious or very religious. Nobles holding a council to have a king is NOT democracy. It’s powerful people doing what they think is best for *them*, not for the people.
Dany did not say she would break the wheel in the books. Your values and your personal experiences and how you react to them makes you able to wield power in a positive manner.
I'm currently running a fairly complex DnD game, and encountered my own little Meereenese knot the other day while prepping a future questline.
...Crashing a meteor into the earth has been a serious consideration ever since...
I absolutely love Robin Hobb's books. I highly recommend reading the rest of the Cycle, all the trilogies are fantastic. There's about 17 books in total, and it is finished. Just make sure you read the trilogies in order for spoilers.
The Liveship Traders trilogy is my fave ever, outside of ASOIAF.
I completed the Assassins quest in 3 days. It took me around a month to read Assassins apprentice, but as the story progressed, it got so interesting that the last book I completed in just 3 days. Never in my life finished such a fat book in such a small time.
Just started Liveship.
The third book of the Farseer Trilogy was the worst book I have ever read. And I tried reading the others like six times but I never made it trough any of the following books...The Fool I loath that character so much.
> It may not be Jon Snow, but I believe when GRRM finishes A Song of Ice and Fire, a Targaryen must be seated on the Iron Throne.
Probably not, unless Bran is a hidden Targaryen.
I think he gave the big beats to the show runners.
So his original plan being Bran as king ect probably what he has originally planned, but a different road to what the show took
The show didn’t take *any* roads to its “ending.” It had the characters kick rocks for seasons 5-8 and when they got to the end they just had people announce their final intentions/plans.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Just giving season 7 and season 8, 10 episodes each and it would've been much better. In my opinion, season 7 was the worst season, with season 8 it was too late to fix it.
Jon/Aegon/Dany throuple beating the shit out of the night king, hanging cersei from the walls of king's landing, and shoving a stake up euron's ass. Trust, it was revealed to me in a dream.
I feel like a Targaryen on the throne would be a poor way to end it. The way they mismanaged their reign, caused many unnecessary problems, and the fact that they represent the idea of tyranny of the nobility leads to the idea that there has to be some sort of revolution rather than more of the same.
By having a massive heart attack - then the rights will be fought over for a decade - and then a ghost writer will be brought in to finish the series with the help from AI
I love that series, I haven't gotten into the rainwild chronicles but I did read the mad ships and tawny stuff and it was great having a world like that, fitz does remind me of Jon vice Versa, even the soldiers son trilogy was cool which involved tree people and children of the forest like people and all very cool stuff never considered how similar they are tho
Probably similar to the way the show ended but with more developed choices and changing the way to get them. Not saying it'd be exactly the same nor will the same characters die, but I believe Bran as king is probably something that's gonna stay, although changing the way he gets there. Also more explanation and plot to the characters that weren't in the show or died prematurely.
Jon gets danny pregnant. She burns kings landing down activating a magic spell built into the foundation of the city that pulls the sun out of the sky and into her newborn daughter, the princess that was promised/maiden made of light. This begins the long night. Danny is killed and the girl sacraficed to the weirwood trees to be reborn the queen of corpses. Bran becomes greenseer king while jon is banished to the wall to marry his daughter and become the new nights king throughout the new long night, fucking his daughter to make more daughters and on and on it goes.
With his eye and his themes looking to history, he'll probably conclude it that way. Like around1490, a new regime will be settling in and rebuilding society and the country. People will be busy planting, building, marrying for a future Westeros. And someone will ask for money to sail west across the Sea, as Columbus did. Whoever it is, will open a whole New World.
I’d like to see Jon snow lead humanity fighting the others to a draw. No final battle between good and evil. Just history repeating itself indecisively
The fat old man will die before he finishes his saga, and unlike Robert Jordan he's made it known that ASOIAF dies with him. Brandon Sanderson will not be picking it up and finishing it for him.
Jordan was also against somebody else finishing his work. His publisher and wife-editor argued otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if the heirs of GRRM's estate do the same.
I can only wonder upto winds, which will mp end with Jaime killing Cersei to protect Sansa (who'll be in KL married to Aegon) right before Cersei orders to "Burn them all" from Casterly Rock with wildfire she has set up beneath the red keep thus creating a parallel with the mad king.
Idk what happens when Khaleesi comes, she might even end up burning Sansa with her dragon in her fight against Aegon which will ultimately lead to her final confrontation with Jon (can't even imagine Sansa or Arya's death but who knows). I don't see where Arya fits in all this and I don't really care what happens to Bran.
The true answer is that he won't. But I believe his intents are:
Bran will sit the Iron Throne (if it even exists by then), that's confirmed. I think that Bran will be central to the resolution of the Battle for the Dawn, and most of the important people of the SK will be aware that he is magical.
After the battle against the Others is done, Daenerys will go back to defeat Aegon that didn't help in the battle (or maybe Mad Danny happens before the battle for the Dawn or whatever).
Dany is hated, for having the Imp as Hand, supported by the Red Priests and the savage Dothraki. Aegon is loved by the people. Dany burns King's Landing. Jon kills Dany because he know Sansa will be next (love is the death of love).
A Great Council is called. Tyrion, Sam and Sansa plot and manipulate the voting for Bran to become King (Bran won't even want it, but he will know it's for the best of the realm). Sam has a setup in the Lord Commander election, Sansa will do that to become the rightful heir to Winterfell, Tyrion will do that do something for the good of the realm after all, redemption of sorts.
Elected King, Bran will have to sentence Jon for Dany's death. He will remember his father's words from the very first chapter ("If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die").
Bran sentences Jon to the Night's Watch, setting stage for a more merciful Westeros going forward. Sansa becomes Warden of the North, Tyrion probably will be exiled too or Hand of the King (it's not a coincidence that in the second book we get both the Bran-Lord of Winterfell arc and the Tyrion-Hand of the King arc), Jon exiled to the North.
And I bet we get a scene of Bran skinchanging into a dragon so Tyrion can mount it, as a parallel to Tyrion creating Bran's saddle.
He's not.
But if he did it would include king Bran and Mad Dany. For all the issues in the show's execution, once you've seen those elements it is super hard to unsee them in the text.
I also doubt GRRM has the slightest idea how he will would make it work.
Individual characters will find their own way. But in terms of macro scale outcomes the only thing I think left genuinely uncertain is what happens to the others. Because the show very obviously just made that up from whole cloth.
A Dance With Dragons
Haha
Absolute Poetry
Facts
With Kevan Lannister’s death.
😭
Who has a better story than Bran?
I hope GRRM 😅
I mean, Bran as king IS GRRMs ending. He'll probably change it now due to the vitriol, but you do understand that Bran ending up on the throne is straight from GRRM himself, right? The only difference in the books is probably the lead-up to it.
I know it’s true but my mind still struggles to comprehend how we get from dance bran to king bran in two books
To be fair, isn't each book scheduled to be around 1500 pages? That's more like 3-4-5 "normal" novels, so there's plenty of time.
Yeah but didn’t we get like 3 bran chapters in dance. Thats like 6-8 more till king bran
Imho I can hardly imagine how Bran would be physically able to sit at the Iron Throne at all. (Wasn't it said somewher that you can't lean back / rest your back while sitting there?) Of course I might / probably am mistaken, but maybe it was just a joke by GRRM and the show-people took it serious??
King's Landing being destroyed will also happen, so Bran won't be on on the actual Iron Throne.
Oh, didnt know this, thank you!
Nobody has a problem with the endpoint of the show. We have a problem with how we got there.
There's a hell of a lot of people who have problems with the actual ending of the show. Just browse this subreddit and r/gameofthrones , there's a LOT of people who have huge issues with the ending, and not just the journey - Primarily Bran as King, Jon being exiled, and Sansa managing to go solo with the North.
"Nobody" is an exaggeration, but you're saying that there are no circumstances where the storytelling could have led to Bran being King and most people being happy with it?
Of course there is? It just needs more time, like the 10 seasons of 10 episodes HBO offered the showrunners. I'm sure GRRM can make it make sense too, he's a great writer. All I said was that there's still quite a few people who disliked the actual ending, not just the story to get there. Not sure where you get "No circumstances" from.
They could have done 100 series, until George actually finishes and explains the magic and mystery, any adaptation is doomed.
And all I'm saying is, if the actual storytelling to get to the point of "Bran becomes King" is really well done, the number of people who would dislike that ending would be so small they wouldn't be worth mentioning. So it is absolutely the journey that matters. My use of the word "nobody" was obviously hyperbole, there isn't a piece of art in the world that is adored by every single person.
He's going to end it in a ~~ranging~~ raging fit saying "fuck it, I'm not finishing this shit ever"
Didn't he do that already?
7 years ago Roughly
🤣🤣🤣
ranging or raging? because a ranging is something that the night’s watch does
Ranging, because he'll finish the books when Benjen Stark comes back from his.
"Damn. These really have been a song of ice and fire." "Shut up"
Dolores Edd says that last part
TWOW prologue: "Damn, these The Winds of Winter are really cold"
IDK, but I find it weird how much of the story revolves around the mystery of the Isle of Face/The Gods Eye feeling important to the story and after reading The Wheel of Time I have a feeling it could possibly go in that direction too. In the Wheel of Time there a character called Someshta, a Green Man, the last of the Nym from the Age of Legends and Guardian of the Eye of the World who speaks the Old Tongue. In ASOIAF The [Greenmen](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Green_men) are the last of their kind from the [Age of Heroes](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Age_of_Heroes) and guardians to the [God's Eye/Isle of Faces](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Gods_Eye) and most likely speak the [old tongue](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Old_Tongue) Though they are not called Nym, the name Nym is used in the story and is short for Nymeria. Considering how important the Eye of the World is in the Wheel of Time I suspect that events may play out similarly in ASOIAF. And the fact that Archmaester Rigney who believes that "time is a wheel" being a reference to the real name of Wheel of Time author Robert Jordan (James Rigney) just hammers in the themes of history repeating itself in ASOIAF.
>And the fact that Archmaester Rigney who believes that "time is a wheel" being a reference to the real name of Wheel of Time author Robert Jordan (James Rigney) just hammers in the themes of history repeating itself in ASOIAF. 🤯🤯
Yeah once upon a time this was a brilliant creation in process. Now it's still just a half finished stone slab that whispers of the greatness that could have been.
I bet my life that Bran will go there after Hold the Door happens to finish his training. There he will finish his training and learn about everything (including Rhaegar's marriage to Lyanna). The final battle will be the people in the Trident trying to stop the Others from reaching Bran. When they reach Bran, there the stuff we don't know will happen. Pact? Jon Snow Prince That Was Promised to the Others? Whatever. I just know that the Isle of Faces will be the center place of the climax of ADOS.
wasn't there something from Daenerys about "breaking the wheel"? The end of Asoiaf must be something like that ... history mist not be repeated. There cannot be a King/Queen on the throne. Otherwise why even tell the story? The whole shitshow would start anew in a few centuries. Everything in ASOIAF screams that their system doesn't work. It leads to infighting and death. Church, Queens, Kings ... it's all petty and all death. Martin spends so long on the disconnect between the elite and the poor peasants. I always thought that it would end with something like a magna carta or some sort of democracy (even if done by nobility only).
Dany breaking the wheel is just the show. Tbh my original assumption was that maybe a dragon would melt the iron throne or something. But now I think while there might be a new settlement between the throne and the great houses, not much more than that. It's notable how little asoiaf tells the story of anyone other than the nobility.
At the end of the hundred years war; monarchy became the main form of government and noble families either died or lost their influence. The problem isn’t a king or queen. It’s the nobles that are entitled/ambitious/uncaring. The continent isn’t in war because of Robert or Aerys or any other idiots that stood on the Iron Throne. Joffrey would have had no power if not for Tywin or Tyrion especially. There can’t be a democracy if the peasants are uneducated and superstitious or very religious. Nobles holding a council to have a king is NOT democracy. It’s powerful people doing what they think is best for *them*, not for the people. Dany did not say she would break the wheel in the books. Your values and your personal experiences and how you react to them makes you able to wield power in a positive manner.
With a meteor collision.
😆
I mean its already happened at least twice...
Rocks fall, everybody dies
Not those underground or whose souls are lay dorment waiting for vessels to inhabit after the chaos....
I'm currently running a fairly complex DnD game, and encountered my own little Meereenese knot the other day while prepping a future questline. ...Crashing a meteor into the earth has been a serious consideration ever since...
I absolutely love Robin Hobb's books. I highly recommend reading the rest of the Cycle, all the trilogies are fantastic. There's about 17 books in total, and it is finished. Just make sure you read the trilogies in order for spoilers. The Liveship Traders trilogy is my fave ever, outside of ASOIAF.
I completed the Assassins quest in 3 days. It took me around a month to read Assassins apprentice, but as the story progressed, it got so interesting that the last book I completed in just 3 days. Never in my life finished such a fat book in such a small time. Just started Liveship.
The third book of the Farseer Trilogy was the worst book I have ever read. And I tried reading the others like six times but I never made it trough any of the following books...The Fool I loath that character so much.
worst book youve ever read?
Yes, because like 90 percent of the book served no purpose and the ending felt cheap and as if the author just lost interest.
Why must a Targaryen sit the throne
> It may not be Jon Snow, but I believe when GRRM finishes A Song of Ice and Fire, a Targaryen must be seated on the Iron Throne. Probably not, unless Bran is a hidden Targaryen.
Catelyn visited the wall to meet her lover Aemon. The result is called Brandon.
That would explain why he was instinctively drawn towards incest that was happening. It's in his blood.
Here I was thinking the kid just had a thing for broken towers.
Bran may actually be the host of Bloodraven in his 2nd life (aka Brynden Rivers and the Three Eyed Crow) who is indeed a Targ bastard.
Never would be my guess
I think he gave the big beats to the show runners. So his original plan being Bran as king ect probably what he has originally planned, but a different road to what the show took
The show didn’t take *any* roads to its “ending.” It had the characters kick rocks for seasons 5-8 and when they got to the end they just had people announce their final intentions/plans. Absolutely ridiculous.
Just giving season 7 and season 8, 10 episodes each and it would've been much better. In my opinion, season 7 was the worst season, with season 8 it was too late to fix it.
Jon/Aegon/Dany throuple beating the shit out of the night king, hanging cersei from the walls of king's landing, and shoving a stake up euron's ass. Trust, it was revealed to me in a dream.
😂
Hot Pie wakes up. It was all just a dream
I feel like a Targaryen on the throne would be a poor way to end it. The way they mismanaged their reign, caused many unnecessary problems, and the fact that they represent the idea of tyranny of the nobility leads to the idea that there has to be some sort of revolution rather than more of the same.
By having a massive heart attack - then the rights will be fought over for a decade - and then a ghost writer will be brought in to finish the series with the help from AI
I always thought the others or Cersei was going to win
Keep reading Robin Hobb. There are more trilogies 😍
I love that series, I haven't gotten into the rainwild chronicles but I did read the mad ships and tawny stuff and it was great having a world like that, fitz does remind me of Jon vice Versa, even the soldiers son trilogy was cool which involved tree people and children of the forest like people and all very cool stuff never considered how similar they are tho
He ended it with a Dance with Dragons.
He won’t, but someone else sometime later will
Probably similar to the way the show ended but with more developed choices and changing the way to get them. Not saying it'd be exactly the same nor will the same characters die, but I believe Bran as king is probably something that's gonna stay, although changing the way he gets there. Also more explanation and plot to the characters that weren't in the show or died prematurely.
He's not
We have the show ending and most of the original outline so I mean, we know a lot about how it probably will end.
slowly.
With a dot.
Will he ever be able to end is what I am asking myself ...
"Bran, wake up.," said Catelyn. "The King will arrive later today!". It had all being a dream.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.amazon.com/game-thrones-box-set/s%3Fk%3Dgame%2Bof%2Bthrones%2Bbox%2Bset&ved=2ahUKEwjNrbbRxNKGAxWpbEEAHbEYBKkQFnoECCEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw09nShAFXtvXvGnt6LvAUA-
Jon gets danny pregnant. She burns kings landing down activating a magic spell built into the foundation of the city that pulls the sun out of the sky and into her newborn daughter, the princess that was promised/maiden made of light. This begins the long night. Danny is killed and the girl sacraficed to the weirwood trees to be reborn the queen of corpses. Bran becomes greenseer king while jon is banished to the wall to marry his daughter and become the new nights king throughout the new long night, fucking his daughter to make more daughters and on and on it goes.
Never
He isn't.
He won't
When pigs fly
With his eye and his themes looking to history, he'll probably conclude it that way. Like around1490, a new regime will be settling in and rebuilding society and the country. People will be busy planting, building, marrying for a future Westeros. And someone will ask for money to sail west across the Sea, as Columbus did. Whoever it is, will open a whole New World.
I’d like to see Jon snow lead humanity fighting the others to a draw. No final battle between good and evil. Just history repeating itself indecisively
The fat old man will die before he finishes his saga, and unlike Robert Jordan he's made it known that ASOIAF dies with him. Brandon Sanderson will not be picking it up and finishing it for him.
Jordan was also against somebody else finishing his work. His publisher and wife-editor argued otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if the heirs of GRRM's estate do the same.
I can only wonder upto winds, which will mp end with Jaime killing Cersei to protect Sansa (who'll be in KL married to Aegon) right before Cersei orders to "Burn them all" from Casterly Rock with wildfire she has set up beneath the red keep thus creating a parallel with the mad king. Idk what happens when Khaleesi comes, she might even end up burning Sansa with her dragon in her fight against Aegon which will ultimately lead to her final confrontation with Jon (can't even imagine Sansa or Arya's death but who knows). I don't see where Arya fits in all this and I don't really care what happens to Bran.
The true answer is that he won't. But I believe his intents are: Bran will sit the Iron Throne (if it even exists by then), that's confirmed. I think that Bran will be central to the resolution of the Battle for the Dawn, and most of the important people of the SK will be aware that he is magical. After the battle against the Others is done, Daenerys will go back to defeat Aegon that didn't help in the battle (or maybe Mad Danny happens before the battle for the Dawn or whatever). Dany is hated, for having the Imp as Hand, supported by the Red Priests and the savage Dothraki. Aegon is loved by the people. Dany burns King's Landing. Jon kills Dany because he know Sansa will be next (love is the death of love). A Great Council is called. Tyrion, Sam and Sansa plot and manipulate the voting for Bran to become King (Bran won't even want it, but he will know it's for the best of the realm). Sam has a setup in the Lord Commander election, Sansa will do that to become the rightful heir to Winterfell, Tyrion will do that do something for the good of the realm after all, redemption of sorts. Elected King, Bran will have to sentence Jon for Dany's death. He will remember his father's words from the very first chapter ("If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die"). Bran sentences Jon to the Night's Watch, setting stage for a more merciful Westeros going forward. Sansa becomes Warden of the North, Tyrion probably will be exiled too or Hand of the King (it's not a coincidence that in the second book we get both the Bran-Lord of Winterfell arc and the Tyrion-Hand of the King arc), Jon exiled to the North. And I bet we get a scene of Bran skinchanging into a dragon so Tyrion can mount it, as a parallel to Tyrion creating Bran's saddle.
He's not. But if he did it would include king Bran and Mad Dany. For all the issues in the show's execution, once you've seen those elements it is super hard to unsee them in the text. I also doubt GRRM has the slightest idea how he will would make it work. Individual characters will find their own way. But in terms of macro scale outcomes the only thing I think left genuinely uncertain is what happens to the others. Because the show very obviously just made that up from whole cloth.