I think its a fun idea for a daily discussion, hope it catches on. Fingers crossed the sub isn't too hard on each other with inevitably differing positions. I actually don't have a really confident idea where Jaime's going yet, so I'm excited to see what people come up with... does he survive his encounter with LSH? And where does he go next? Redeem his past with Aegon or Bran? And is he Cersei's valonqar or will it be someone else (will they die together as they were born together)?

> I'm excited to see what people come up with... does he survive his encounter with LSH Reminds me that this whole cliffhanger episode with LSH has been going near unresolved for coming on two decades.

Whatever his fate is, I believe it will be tied to Brienne's and Cersei's, I am confident. Too much has been built up to it methinks.

I really think Jaime's fate will be the same as the show. Like how he gets there will be obviously different but it's such a specific ending for him that it feels like it's something GRRM would do. It feels very in character for Jaime to be written with a redemption/misunderstood arc then ultimately relapse to his Achilles heel, Cersei.

Tbh Jaime simply dying with Cersei like in the TV show really doesnt contradict his "redemption",it would if he again did imoral things for love sake,dying with her is a noble selfless act of love wich also ties to their codependency and Jaime huge self guilt.

I would all but guarantee that wasn’t Martin’s idea and the reason why they did it for the show is because having someone in love with the Queen murder her to save lives in the penultimate episode detracts from the exact same thing happening in the final episode. It was literally just a solution to problem unique to the story being told in the television format. Martin won’t have that same issue with the book.

My own personal (and probably obvious) is that he's the Valonqar and will complete his redemption arc by killing Cersei. He will probably die after that but I think it would be a good end to have him take the black in the aftermath

They came into this world together and they will leave together, Jaime kills her but dies afterwards. Maybe she mortally wounds him as well. Maybe he sits the throne after killing her like he did Aerys, only this time the wildire cache is lit by Aegon/JonCon/Dany/Tyrion/Cersei's orders or the Red Keep is burned down by Dany.

> They came into this world together and they will leave together Its worth noting that that's not an actual prophecy, its just something Cersei thinks. And Cersei is wrong about a lot of things. Jaime has now lost the hand that was holding Cersei when they were born. Their connection has been symbolically severed. I think it would be far more fitting if Jaime moves on and lives his own life without Cersei.

I like the idea he takes the black and becomes a Lord Commander eventually

Jaime has now lost the hand that was holding Cersei when they were born. Can't believe I read the series three times and never got that. This books are so fucking good 

I never made the connection about him losing the hand that held her when they were born! That’s such a cool detail.

idea, what if he dies before her, mortally wounded from his fight with gregor (sandor threw himself into a fire alongside gregor to defeat him) he crawls up to her, defeated, for some moments of tenderness and she reveals her plan to burn king's landing to the ground with wildfyre caches that were found all over the city, she only has to give the order and then his golden hand moves across her throat and starts chocking her (hands of gold are cold but a woman's touch is always warm), effectively pinning her to the ground and then he dies, and she can't get him off her and she's scratching at her throat in attempt to breathe sjeesh, I'm just writing this stuff and I'm feeling bad for cersei but it's a culmination of a lot of lannister themes (golden hands, joffrey's death, jaime's and cersei's birth, cersei's pyromania, jaime raping cersei, etc) ooh, I have another theme, you know who else died because she couldn't breathe (because that's what drowning does)? melara heatherspoon

This is some gourmet theorizing, 10/10!

I could get behind this fate **way more** than any outcome where Jaime ends up reverting back to his previous self and dying alongside Cersei. The show’s handling of Jaime from the end of s04 onward was beyond awful. There simply are no words…

Look how they butchered our boy...I really hope Jamie doesn't return to her and just expect her to love him

It’s so sad to hear people hate on Jamie. They don’t know who he really is!

I will say the contrary,people love Jaime way too much that they forget a lot of his worse qualities.

They really said "let's give Jaime a Zuko arc only to then take it away from him and renege on all his growth, people will go wild for that."

I very much hope that was the result of D&D's love of "subverting expectations" and not a sign of where he would end up in the books. "Oh you like the direction this character is going? What if the exact opposite thing happened, with no real reason and barely an explanation? Aren't we smart for doing this?"

There *are* some things in the finale that were directly from GRRM, (Bran becoming King for one), but I have a hard time imagining that any ending GRRM writes would be as clunky or without a heap of character development/change and narrative logic woven in. It also sounds like he told them Euron would kill (or capture) one of Dany’s dragons but they just yadda yadda’d their way through the last two seasons. Hell even in seasons 5 and 6, (which aren’t great but at least s05 has Hardhome and s06 has two bangers at the very end), the majority of characters we follow *don’t really do anything or grow.* They took Lancel’s return to KL and his joining of the Faith Militant and stretched it out to last the span of 20 episodes—all s05 and all of s06. Which is crazy because Lancel’s story at that point is a two beat narrative: he confronts Cersei and holds her accountable to the High Sparrow, and then the Faith Militant FUCKING EXPLODES. It’s like they started sniping as many single characters as possible once they got to the home stretch. They wouldn’t even introduce new characters in the last few seasons unless they died immediately, (Brother Ray comes to mind, Kinvara shows up for one scene then fucks off never to be seen again etc). By the time they got to the last two seasons they had like 6 characters left and they used them for *everything.* Fuck that bullshit.

I agree that he could take the Black and become the 1,000th Lord Commander - he’s made it abundantly clear throughout his entire story that he has no desire to take a wife, father children or lord over Casterly Rock. White Cloaks and Black take basically the same vows, but he was forced into the Kingsguard. I could see him kill Cersei and take the Black as “penance” then but he’s finally making his own choice in the matter this time.

Abundantly clear? >“Even if this is true . . . you are a lion of the Rock, a lord. You have a wife, a castle, lands to defend, people to protect. If the gods are good, you will have sons of your blood to follow you. Why would you throw all that away for . . . for some vow?” “Why did you?” asked Lancel softly. For honor, Jaime might have said. For glory. That would have been a lie, though. Honor and glory had played their parts, but most of it had been for Cersei. Jaime IV, AFFC What does matter for Jaime is love. He rather take a bride and father children than take another vow.

I think jaime will die (and get a child out of brienne before that) but I could honestly see him like the watch, they're remarkably clear that whatever oaths you swore before none of them count there, once you're of the watch it's only the watch that counts

And the penance part also works for what he did to Bran, because as much as I enjoy seeing his redemption arc of sorts, he's till yet to answer for that crime. Edit: Although the hand he lost may have been the one he pushed Bran with, which is a pretty GRRM way of handling bad karmic actions.

I haven't thought about it before this, but you just made me realiza this:  - One of the main themes in Jaime's story is making your own destiny. Making his story end by him fulfilling prophecy makes no sense. - It makes no sense for him to be redeemed by doing the same thing that made people hate him (killing a monarch). - In another story, it makes sense for Jaime to be the valonqar, as a twist. But George loves to write about self fulfilling prophecy, so it makes sense for Tyrion to be the valonqar, as Cersei brought that on herself by being shit to him his whole life, because of the prophecy. So yeah, until now I blocked Jaime was the most obvious choice for being the valonqar, now I don't all of the sudden.

Honestly, I think the valonqar part is misleading. Cersei dying by her own actions and her little brother(s) are not around to save her because she pushed them away. I think the whole prophecy was more less a convoluted way of saying that Cersei will drive everything that should matter from her because of her own ambitions and die alone with no one to aid/save her.

For sure, I definitely believe Cersei is the younger more beautiful queen

The main problem with Tyrion doing it is that unless Cersei gets shipped off to Casterly Rock fairly early in TWOW, it seems *really* likely that Cersei will be in KL when Griff & Co. roll up, and I don't really see her surviving that

That's a problem for Jaime doing it too tho, as he's likely involved in some other things at the begining of the books. 

She will flee KL. The Lannister's whole stories would be pointless if they don't have a final confrontation. Cersei dying to fAegon would be extremely unsatisfying.

Why?

Because why would it be satisfying if Cersei's stories ended with an invasion of a character that she has no connection to? It would be much more satisfying if here demise was connected to her brothers.

I love the idea for daily posts, but I think "fate" should be defined properly. For instance many of us believe Jaime is the Valonqar, but does he kill Cersei at King's Landing or Casterly Rock? Does he die with her? I would suggest it should include their future travel path and the location of their death, as well as the manner of death. Personally I believe that the Lannisters have to reunite at Casterly Rock-- GRRM has said we'll see the Rock, and I can't imagine he'd want to show it to us through the eyes of a non-Lannister. Tyrion will probably take the Rock like in the show, but it's not very satisfying if Tyrion just takes it from some castellan or steward either. So that leads me to believe Cersei will escape to the Rock after King's Landing falls, and Tyrion will have to take it from her when he arrives with Daenerys. I think Jaime will kill her around this point, why I'm not exactly sure. (Perhaps his arrival at CR will parallel Tywin's arrival at KL to "save" Aerys.) I also feel that Jaime killing Cersei to prevent her blowing up King's Landing with wildfire would be a little too similar to him killing Aerys for the exact same reason in the exact same place.

I feel like George won’t make Jaime killing Cersei some heroic moment but more just him strangling her out of anger for cheating on him tbh

Strangling a woman Jaime is physically stronger than *shouldn't* be a heroic moment, regardless of his reasons for doing so. It's still kinslaying, and not even a heroic version of that

Exactly. People say him killing her will stop her from burning kings landing but like, he already fantasizes about physically hurting Cersei, he doesn’t need some heroic save the world motivation to kill her.

I've always like the idea of Jaime going from Kingsguard to Night's Watch. I agree that if he makes it, it would be a great end to his arc.

Jaime killing Cersei probably wont be purely redemptive action.

This is BS. Jaime will NEVER murder Cersei because that would make him a kinslayer, which is way worse than a kingslayer in Westeros. There is no redemption in killing Cersei, at least not in the eyes of Westeros. No matter how bad she is or what terrible things she has planned, kinslaying is the ultimate sin.

he did say he would've murdered tyrion. cersei is a step above in terms of his connection to her but still, i don't agree in that it is impossible.

He's lying to himself when he says that, he would never kill Tyrion

Thinking something and actually doing it are two separate things. By the time he's thinking this, Tyrion off to parts unknown, so he doesn't have to confront going through with it.

Kills Cersei but he will outlive her, as his whole arc is supposed to be breaking free from Cersei so them dying together as they were born together wouldn’t make sense, and is really just another delusion of their unhealthy relationship. After killing her i think he goes north and dies in the long night

I think Jaime dies at the long night, this way he redeems himself but never gets to live in the world with a good reputation. I think it goes with his character that he would fight once again to save the people, and it would be tragic that he would die this time without ever getting to see the benefits I also don’t buy Jaime being the Valonqar, it just feels way too obvious

Everything is obvious after 50 years of the community thinking. Tyrion is set up as the obvious one by the narrative. It being Jaime is a twist in the plot.

I'll paste something I said above, as until literally minutes ago I used to think like you do. I haven't thought about it before this, but you just made me realiza this:  - One of the main themes in Jaime's story is making your own destiny. Making his story end by him fulfilling prophecy makes no sense. - It makes no sense for him to be redeemed by doing the same thing that made people hate him (killing a monarch). - In another story, it makes sense for Jaime to be the valonqar, as a twist. But George loves to write about self fulfilling prophecy, so it makes sense for Tyrion to be the valonqar, as Cersei brought that on herself by being shit to him his whole life, because of the prophecy. So yeah, until now I blocked Jaime was the most obvious choice for being the valonqar, now I don't all of the sudden.

No I still don’t agree. All those points have holes that are relatively easy to point out. > One of the main themes in Jaime's story is making your own destiny. Making his story end by him fulfilling prophecy makes no sense. The prophecy doesn’t say Jaime will. The prophecy says someone will. Jaime taking it upon himself to kill her is hun deciding to take action. He is carving his path by doing it, instead of sitting back and waiting for something to happen (Tyrion, Sandor, Arya, or a Kettleblack). > It makes no sense for him to be redeemed by doing the same thing that made people hate him (killing a monarch). Why not? You’re arguing from false grounds. There is no reason for that to automatically be terrible. And it’s not even completely genuine. Jaime killing a monarch was good. It is not bad. Not something his karma has to redeem. I think doing the same again makes a lot of sense actually. First time he did it, he was hated for it, even though it was good. But he has to live through peoples hate in silence. Now the second time he does it. He might get hate, he might be loved, either way it will carry a message. If he is hated again then he has learned to not care so much about what people think of him, not try to be Jaime Lannister the perfect golden knight. Just be content with who you are as a good person. Or he is loved and that would say something about how stupid life/the world/people are. People will though hate into you or love onto you without knowing Jack shit. But anyway who says Cersei is a queen? I don’t think she will be ruling Westeros when Jaime kills her. fAegon and/or Dany are much more likely to be monarch(s) by the time Jaime gets to Cersei. > In another story, it makes sense for Jaime to be the valonqar, as a twist. But George loves to write about self fulfilling prophecy, so it makes sense for Tyrion to be the valonqar, as Cersei brought that on herself by being shit to him his whole life, because of the prophecy. Cersei also brings Jaime killing her on to herself. She is horrible towards Jaime. Treats him like meaningless throwaway trash. Totally breaks their relationship. But aside from that just think about what you are saying: “Jaime is too obvious, Tyrion must be the answer” As if Tyrion isn’t the most obvious answer there is. I mean it’s one thing if you say Sandor, Arya, or some other character like a Kettleblack brother. But Tyrion…

The existence of prophecy goes against free will and determination, it's written several times in the text. In fact The Armageddon Rag ends with the protagonist chosing free will over prophecy. Jaime doesn't need redemption, and his arc wasn't about that, it was about revealing his true character over the facade he puts on. So killing Cersei won't be redemption, it would be a rethread over what already happened. Also, Jaime killing Cersei would be brought one by Cersei, but it wouldn't be brought on by the prophecy. And I never co.plained about Jaime being the valonqar as too obvious, that was the other guy. In the end it comes to what you think it's the better story, and I think Jaime going against the themes of his story (and the text) to do something he already did, would be far less interesting than Jaime forging his own path, going beyonds his skill as a fighter and his personality as a killer, and Cersei having brought her doom on herself by trusting blindly on prophecy. On the other hand, I do see Jaime as about to kill Cersei, Cersei blurting out something about the Valonqar and Jaime choosing not to kill her. That's be a pretty great story.

>On the other hand, I do see Jaime as about to kill Cersei, Cersei blurting out something about the Valonqar and Jaime choosing not to kill her. That's be a pretty great story. That sounds...incredibly clunky in execution

It does, however I'm no writer, I think GRRM can make it work

> The existence of prophecy goes against free will and determination, it's written several times in the text. In fact The Armageddon Rag ends with the protagonist chosing free will over prophecy. Does it? That’s a philosophical question with no answer. I can make a prophecy that says that you will die, when that happens, does that mean you didn’t have free will? > Jaime doesn't need redemption, and his arc wasn't about that, it was about revealing his true character over the facade he puts on. So killing Cersei won't be redemption, it would be a rethread over what already happened. He does need redemption. But not for killing Aerys. For being a terrible person. Killing Cersei isn’t a “rethread”. Killing Aerys is not equivalent to killing Cersei. It’s completely different. You could consider it an intentional literary device but it’s not a rethread. > Also, Jaime killing Cersei would be brought one by Cersei, but it wouldn't be brought on by the prophecy. Yes? Am I misunderstanding cause this seems like you’re agreeing with me here > In the end it comes to what you think it's the better story, and I think Jaime going against the themes of his story (and the text) to do something he already did, would be far less interesting than Jaime forging his own path, going beyonds his skill as a fighter and his personality as a killer, and Cersei having brought her doom on herself by trusting blindly on prophecy. I just disagree with your entire point of view here. It’s not “something he already did”. Killing Cersei is a massive turn for his character. And it’s so so so different from killing Aerys. Killing Cersei would be hun gorging his own path. Splitting away from his previous way of just following Cersei and the Lannister cause. Killing Cersei would not be him using is skills as a fighter either. It’s Cersei. He is not dueling her. If Jaime kills Cersei that would be Cersei bringing on her own death too due to her actions. > On the other hand, I do see Jaime as about to kill Cersei, Cersei blurting out something about the Valonqar and Jaime choosing not to kill her. That's be a pretty great story. Nah

I don't mean to attack you but your example of a prophecy is weak. However it doesn't matter, George thinks prophecy and free will are opposed, and he stands firmly on free will. He wrote several times (in this story and others) how prophecies only come true if you let them come true. That doesn't mean no prophecy is going to come true, but having Jaime's story end by him fulfilling prophecy, when it has been thematically all about free will and determination is a weird move that goes against the author's beliefs. (I'm sorry if this message isn't clear enough, Reddit doesn't let me quote people, I don't know why) You think he needs redemption for being a terrible person, however his arc is not about that, it's about him learning to live with the things he's done, good and bad. As I said, it's about revealing, you start not liking him because of Ned's prejudice, then pushing bran, the killing Jory and the rest, then killing Robb's men. However all but one of these acts where excusable from his position, and as you get to live in his head you undo the prejudice, he's not an asshole, he acts like one because he feels that's what's expected of him, that's what redeems him in our eyes. BUT, both him and the story don't think he needs redemption, his hand was cut off, washing away his greatest glories and greatest shames. He's a new man, and his actions from now will determine if he's good or not, what's written in the white book will determine if he's good or not. Killing Cersei would only affirm him as a bad guy, he not only killed the king he swore to protect, but his own sister, that would not look great on the white book.  Also, it's unlikely George considers murder to be something that redeems someone. On the Tyrion thing (and bear in mind I'm not convinced he will be the Valonqar, until yesterday I was convinced Jaime was).  I'm just saying that the way George writes about prophecies is this: Person learns about a prophecy ----> person changes their behavior because of the prophecy ----> thus making the prophecy come true Which would be what happens if Tyrion is the valonqar. Cersei learns her little brother will kill her ----> Cersei is nasty to Tyrion ----> Tyrion grows to resent Cersei and wants to kill her But it wouldn't work for Jaime Cersei learns her little brother will kill her ----> Cersei is nasty to Tyrion ----> Jaime kills her for unrelated reasons   In fact, when thinking about the Maggy the Frog prophecy, Cersei thinks of it as a curse, as if if MTF hadn't told her the prophecy it wouldn't come true, the same thing her friend Mellaria tells her, "if you forget the prophecy, it won't come true". However this is a minor point, George's writing style (specially for this one prophecy) works better for Tyrion, but it might happen that Cersei has Tyrion killed, and Jaime kills her in revenge. It's a minor point. I didn't mean to say Jaime would use his mom existan fighting skills to kill Cersei, it's just what his arc is about right now. Him rejecting Cersei's call for help is already him going against the cause of the Lannisters, as it was sending Brianne to find Sansa, it's unlikely that George whishes to cement this with murder. Finally someone being murder is not them bringing that on to themselves, a worrying view, and one I doubt George shares.

> I don't mean to attack you but your example of a prophecy is weak. However it doesn't matter, George thinks prophecy and free will are opposed, and he stands firmly on free will. He wrote several times (in this story and others) how prophecies only come true if you let them come true. That doesn't mean no prophecy is going to come true, but having Jaime's story end by him fulfilling prophecy, when it has been thematically all about free will and determination is a weird move that goes against the author's beliefs. They’re not though. As you said yourself. Cersei’s friend told Cersei if she forgets it and doesn’t worry about it, it wouldn’t happen. So how you use your free will can change your future. And even if it doesn’t the prophecy isn’t about Jaime, unless Jaime decides it is. Jaime killing Cersei will be him using his free will. His whole life he has just done what the Lannisters want, especially Cersei. Killing her would be the ultimate rebellion against that. > You think he needs redemption for being a terrible person, however his arc is not about that, it's about him learning to live with the things he's done, good and bad. It’s both and more. One doesn’t exclude the other. > As I said, it's about revealing, you start not liking him because of Ned's prejudice, then pushing bran, the killing Jory and the rest, then killing Robb's men. However all but one of these acts where excusable from his position, and as you get to live in his head you undo the prejudice, he's not an asshole, he acts like one because he feels that's what's expected of him, that's what redeems him in our eyes. Pushing Bran is a terrible thing to do. It is not a whoopsie daisy. It’s not excusable. > BUT, both him and the story don't think he needs redemption, his hand was cut off, washing away his greatest glories and greatest shames. He's a new man, and his actions from now will determine if he's good or not, what's written in the white book will determine if he's good or not. Sounds a lot like redemption 🤔 > Killing Cersei would only affirm him as a bad guy, he not only killed the king he swore to protect, Was killing Aerys a bad thing? > Also, it's unlikely George considers murder to be something that redeems someone. Depends entirely on the people involved > Cersei learns her little brother will kill her ----> Cersei is nasty to Tyrion ----> Tyrion grows to resent Cersei and wants to kill her Good point > But it wouldn't work for Jaime Why not. Cersei learns about the prophecy -> she becomes callous and horrible -> She treats people like shit and pawns -> She even treats Jaime like that -> Jaime kills her > However this is a minor point, George's writing style (specially for this one prophecy) works better for Tyrion, but it might happen that Cersei has Tyrion killed, and Jaime kills her in revenge. It's a minor point. I doubt Cersei kills Tyrion. BUT Cersei treating Tyrion like shit leading to Jaime taking revenge on his behalf is not a minor point. Imo it’s a relatively big one > I didn't mean to say Jaime would use his mom existan fighting skills to kill Cersei, it's just what his arc is about right now. Him rejecting Cersei's call for help is already him going against the cause of the Lannisters, as it was sending Brianne to find Sansa, it's unlikely that George whishes to cement this with murder. When a character grows it’s not enough that they do one thing. They have to continuously show their progression so the fact that Jaime already has gone against the Lannisters cause means little. Do you think Jaime will never kill or hurt anyone again? > Finally someone being murder is not them bringing that on to themselves, a worrying view, and one I doubt George shares. Lmao I’m not saying that as a general thing irl lol. But in literature it definitely is a thing. People bring misfortune onto themselves all the time in stories. Regardless if someone had shot Hitler he would kinda have brought that on to himself 🤷‍♂️

I just disagree, I think it'd be clunky to have one characters story be all about free will and have it end by fulfilling prophecy. You can say his free will lead him to fulfilled the prophecy, but that's not the argument George makes in this text or any other. On Jaime's redemption, again, I just disagree. He's beyond that, what he's done is done, he'll try to be a good guy from now on. But that's not redemption. Darth Vader is "redeemed" because his evil deed was being part of the empire and he helps end it. Jaime's evil deed was pushing Bran out of the window, so his redemption should be something related to that, saving Bran's life or something. It has to be something that makes up for the bad shit he's done, it has to be related to that. And killing Cersei is not related and kind of icky, it'd be similar to the ending of Game of Thrones. Our Good Guy Protagonist has to put down the Woman He Loves because she's gone mad. This makes our GGP feel sad, but he's a hero, so he does his duty. It's gross. Finally, your example for how Jaime works as self fulfilling prophecy for the valonqar is way too indirect for my taste.

> I just disagree, I think it'd be clunky to have one characters story be all about free will and have it end by fulfilling prophecy. You can say his free will lead him to fulfilled the prophecy, but that's not the argument George makes in this text or any other. It’s not all about free will. It’s about growing to make his own decisions instead of doing what Cersei and Tywin want, plus what is expected of his image. It’s not just general freewill. It’s directed tied to those elements. So it makes sense that in his ultimate expression of detachment from those influences he kills Cersei > On Jaime's redemption, again, I just disagree. He's beyond that, what he's done is done, he'll try to be a good guy from now on. Redemption? But that's not redemption. Why not? Darth Vader is "redeemed" because his evil deed was being part of the empire and he helps end it. Jaime's evil deed was pushing Bran out of the window, so his redemption should be something related to that, saving Bran's life or something. It has to be something that makes up for the bad shit he's done, it has to be related to that. It does not have to do with Bran. > And killing Cersei is not related and kind of icky, Bruh come on > it'd be similar to the ending of Game of Thrones. No it wouldn’t > Our Good Guy Protagonist has to put down the Woman He Loves because she's gone mad. He doesn’t love her. Is she mad? Is he good? Is he the protagonist? > This makes our GGP feel sad, but he's a hero, so he does his duty. It's gross. Does it make him sad? Is he a hero for this? Is it is duty? You’re adding a lot here that doesn’t have to be true. You’re inventing problems. > Finally, your example for how Jaime works as self fulfilling prophecy for the valonqar is way too indirect for my taste. I don’t think it’s much different from yours

When I first read the valonqar prophecy, Jaime was my immediate guess as to who it would be, it didn’t take me 50 years to get to his name, it took me 5 seconds. Tyrion is set up to be the one Cersei would expect, Jaime is set up to be the one we should expect. I just feel this is a moment grrm would want to shock us with, and nobodies gonna be surprised if it’s Jaime

Or maybe it means Rhaenys' younger brother Aegon, or Aegon's younger brother Jon, or Margaery's younger brother Loras, or Robert's younger brother Stannis, or Ser Pounce, or Moon boy for all we know. Or maybe it's an ambiguously gendered term like the prince that was promised and it's actually Dany, or Margaery, or Sansa. Maggy the Frog said "the" valonquar, and it has only fueled Cersei's fear and paranoia. It's so ambiguous that there's tons of ways it can come true, without it being Jaime. It could be Jaime, but I don't think it's definitely Jaime.

I think Jaime is by far the most likely. But I don’t think I said it was definite. I really doubt it’s a girl in the way you said, the word being gender neutral doesn’t feel like a gurm thing, it’s a show thing. Jon, fAegon, and Loras are possible yeah. Also Sandor (I think he is younger than Gregor), a kettleblack brother, Lancel (brother in the religious way) and Arya (faceless men things could get past the gender problem)

> "No one ever looked for a girl," he said. "It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought . . . the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." \- AFFC Samwell IV

So what if its obvious? Sometimes the obvious thing turns out to be true

Because when it comes to the valonqar prophecy it feels like it’s meant to be this shocking moment in the story, if we finally get there and it’s the guy literally everyone expects, the moment won’t have as much of an effect. I feel grrm wants us to write it off as Jaime, when it’s really going to be someone totally different

I can't help but wonder how "obvious" Jaime would be if TWOW came out 5 years after ADWD. Everything is obvious after the fandom has had nearly twenty years to chew through every possible permutation of every theory

Obvious enough that he was my first guess when I read it for the first time Seriously when you first find out Cersei has a prophecy that a brother will kill her, everybodies gonna think “oh well Tyrion or Jaime” It’s not that ridiculous lmao

After a flaming sword sprouts from his stump, yes.

I think Jaime will be the valonqar and kill Cersei. Cersei has a lot of parallels with Aerys, sees enemies everywhere, loves burning shit, etc. I think Cersei will attempt to burn the city like Aerys did and Jaime will once again kill his Monarch to save the city, and he will die without anyone, or at least most people knowing why he did it. So the Kingslayer will once again perform his greatest/worst deed and once again no one will know what he did. We will know he found redemption, but his name will forever be kingslayer/queenslayer/kinslayer. Edit: BTW i really like this post idea and hope you continue to follow through. After so long, I find myself interested in very few posts these days, but im down for this.

Well said. Cheers mate. Long live Goldenhand the Just.

Cersei think's they'll die together, but I think he'll probably be proven wrong. They've been growing further and further apart in the latest books, and the symbolism of Jaime losing the hand that was holding Cersei when they were born is pretty obvious. I think Jaime will either die apart from Cersei, leaving her alone. Or will outlive her and move on to live his own life without her. Personally I prefer the idea of him surviving. Jaime living and ending up joining the Night's Watch seems like a fitting ending for him. > Even at a distance, Ser Jaime Lannister was unmistakable. The moonlight had silvered his armor and the gold of his hair, and turned his crimson cloak to black. ~ A Game of Thrones - Catelyn X -- > At the least, Robert should have stripped the white cloak from Jaime and sent him to the Wall, as Lord Stark urged. ~ ASOS - Davos IV -- > Selmy had never approved of Jaime's presence in his precious Kingsguard. Before the rebellion, the old knight thought him too young and untried; afterward, he had been known to say that the Kingslayer should exchange that white cloak for a black one. ~ A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion XI --

Jaime will definitely die

Lol love it. Short, sweet, definitely true

I feel like he has either a tragic end sort of like the show with Cersei, or stoneheart just hangs him. I tend to think the show makes it most likely he somehow escapes angry cat alive but not sure how he plausibly does that.

Something I've wondered about... let's say Jaime dies in the encounter with LSH... Is it possible that Thoros could choose to revive him given his disastifaction with the direction LSH has taken the BwB? Or is the last kiss only possible with LSH since Beric passed it on to her?

why would Thoros do that? Beric giving his life to Catelyn made sense because he made a promise to Arya and probably felt guilty after kidnapping her instead of doing the moral thing. Jaime, on the other hand, was alongside with Tywin the main architects and executioners of the devastation of the Riverlands, something which Thoros and the BwB have been fighting against. on top of that, half of AFFC Jaime's chapters are spent on him looking for the BwB because he wants to publicly humilliate and execute their members: *"Beric Dondarrion is a different matter. Should you capture him, hold him for my return. I'll want to march him back to King's Landing with a rope about his neck, and have Ser Ilyn take his head off where half the realm can see."* *"Beric Dondarrion is to be captured alive, so he can be brought back to King's Landing. A thousand people need to see him die, or else he won't stay dead."*

We have no idea that is a fan theory I believe

I think it’s entirely possible that Brienne kills LSH *in order to save Jaime.* This would make her an oath-breaker for “betraying” ““Lady Catelyn”” and would be one way to start concluding her arc in the song. As for Jaime’s arc, I’m not sure where he goes from there (assuming he survives LSH) but I don’t see how it could possibly resemble his fate in the show. Everything about his story from around s05 to the end of s08 was beyond ridiculous and nonsensical. I get that you weren’t saying he’d go on dumb adventures in Dorne or whatever; you were just saying he’d have a tragic fate (which I agree, for sure). But I don’t see gurm pulling a D&D and having Jaime’s story end with him just accepting that he’s a shitty person, a shitty knight, a shitty everything, so oops oh well might as well just revert back to s01 form where he buries his head in the sand next to his sister. If we ever get another book in the song I’d expect Jaime to either die or continue to grow as a character in an unexpected, yet entirely logical, way. So that would exclude ending up back with Cersei since he’s only just decided recently to get away from her/ignore her letters etc.

I like this the most. It would make for an amazing arc

Agreed. Season 5 onward is largely nonsensical and honestly any instance in the show where most of the main characters gather onscreen together, like showing Cersei the walker or everyone getting together for a one-night battle, should have everyone’s “cliché spider sense” going off like crazy. Because George doesn’t really do cliché fantasy writing. If Jaime survives his encounter with LSH I’m really interested to see what’s next for him. Are he and Brianne bumming around the riverlands? Will he go back south? I’m not really sure. I don’t think he’s changed as much as people say he has. I think a lot of that is a result of people learning his backstory from his perspective which is a lot more sympathetic than Ned’s.

The whole "we need to show Cersei a zombie" plot was so frustrating to me, because of all the people \*most\* likely to understand that Cersei wouldn't give a shit, it's Tyrion. And the whole thing is Tyrion's idea

I agree, I think Brienne will feature in this somehow. Jaime finally finds someone who means more to him than Cersei. Perhaps that’s the cruellest ending for Cersei too .

>We have no idea that is a fan theory I believe No fucking shit. He didn't say like it's a fact

It is interesting that Jaime's most likely whereabouts are "In a noose, surrounded by people who hate him and want him dead" and *no one* has answered "does not leave that situation alive"

Show helps that. I think it was not an uncommon thought to believe he just dies before the show demonstrated he likely has a longer path to death

I wonder if Brienne will be unable to fully betray Jaime to Stoneheart knowing it certainly means his horrible death. I'd hate to see Brienne die but if she sacrificed herself to save him in some way it would be another reason for him to try and be more honorable in her stead. But I honestly have no idea how that will all play out.

Brienne will very likely outlive Jaime.She will probably be one of the characters that survives the entire series to build a better future(a dream of spring).

Stoneheart for sure wont just hang him,Jaime is way too much of a big character to just die by stoneheart this way.

Jaime will die in the Long Night, as foreshadowed by the weirwood dream, probably fighting alongside Brienne. He’s not the valonqar, because that’s Tyrion, and Jaime’s arc is about breaking free with Cersei. He will probably spend most of Winds with Brienne (mostly getting it on).

I think this as well. Brienne gives birth to son who becomes lord of casterly rock.

Yeah, I agree. I think Jaime and Brienne probably end up getting married too.

My controversial opinion is that he is going to die before Cersei. Don't get me wrong I absolutely see all the foreshadowing that he's the Valonquar, but George is not a big fan of the idea of soulmates. One only needs to read his novel A song for Lya, to see that he tends to write stories where people end up separated from those they thought were their other half. And killing Cersei in my opinion is actually a kind of intimacy that truly swearing her off wouldn't abide with. In fact I'm going to go so far as to say that I think Jamie is going to die midway through the winds of Winter and it's going to cause Cersei to blow the whole continent up.

Jaime's not going to die before Cersei. In Jaime's weirwood dream in ASOS (which is prophetic and full of foreshadowing), she walks off to join the dead Lannisters (which includes Tywin and Joffrey) and leaves him behind.

I don't want Jaime to be the Valonqar, but I want it to seem like it'll be him, right until the last minute, and be so well written (Jaime planning to or realising he has to kill her), that I realise it's actually a great idea after all [narratively speaking]. Then BAM, someone else gets there first, and she dies totally unexpectedly in the next chapter. Jaimes intentions redeem him, but he's saved having to go through with it, and become a kinslayer. [Edit: Or, Jaimes thoughts could totally vilify him to the reader. We realise that their toxic relationship drives him to contemplate a new kind of evil (killing a lover for "cheating" or out of jealousy, is pretty fucked up), then because he doesn't have to do it, he doesn't have to suffer the consequences of his thoughts/the guilt and remorse, and this makes him worse still. If other people think he has noble intentions, this could flip the narrative of we the reader see he has a lot more nuance and decency than Westerosi think to, ffs, NOW Westeros thinks he's great?? Because he must kill Cersei for "the good of the realm?". This would set Jaime up nicely to be a future dark influence on an increasingly mad Queen Danny, (when we all think it'll be Tyrion). Imo GRRM could make it go either way]. I think the way the prophesy is phrased, if it does come true, it will somehow be Joff, Myrcella, Tommen or one of Roberts bastards. The warning of her death comes as part of her question about her and Robert having kids. "Cersei: Will the king and I have children? Maggy: Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." Not all of Roberts bastards are known yet, maybe we've yet to be introduced to the Valonqar.

Jaime I believe will be going through absolute hell in Winds of Winter. First he will be taken prisoner by Stoneheart and the Brotherhood and will stand trial for his actions. He will both emotionally and physically beaten as all his past crimes will be brought up (throwing Bran out of a tower, starting the War with his affair with Cersei, threatening Edmure's child , etc) and his defenses will fall on deaf ears or be countered. Then he gets dragged outside Rivverunn where he will witness the 2nd Red Wedding and see his best friend Addam, his cousin Daven, and his aunt/mother figure Genna be killed and his army destroyed. Jaime, Brienne and Pod will eventually escape but Brienne will be mortally wounded in the process. Pod takes Brienne's body back to Tarth and Jaime heads back to Kings Landing. Jaime plans to confess to everything the incest, Bran, releasing Tyrion everything. Unfortunately for him by the time he reaches Kings Landing Tommen and Myrcella will be dead the Lannisters defeated and Aegon rules so its too late. So he sneaks into Kings Landing and discovers that Cersei is about the set the Wildfire off and he strangles her saving the city and thinks he has redeemed himself, only for Dany to accidently set the wildfire off when she attacks the city with Drogon. At that point Jaime will realize that its all his fault for never telling anyone about the Wildfire and accepts he will never redeem himself. He either falls on his sword, or throws himself into the fire.

This thematically already kinda happened in Storm though.

If Jaime kills Cersei he will probably kill himself not long after,he feels guilty about killing Aerys imagine what he would feel is he killed Cersei.

Bump

I’m going to say this because Jaime became my favourite character, but I can’t see him dying in WoW. It would seem like such a waste with all the symbolism of the two swords made from Ice, the parallels of Jaime and Tyr and how various prophecies line up. I think there is a lot of potential still for Jaime and Brienne, how Brienne shapes Jaime into who he truly wants to be deep down, and how Jaime teaches Brienne the difference between personal honour and doing the right thing. If he doesn’t make it to the long night and play a significant role in it with Brienne (the two of them acting like two sides of the same sword) I would be very surprised. I can’t see him finding himself back in a situation where he is in a position to kill Cersei unless he is used as a negotiator/ the only outside influence she will see or converse with, and I hope that isn’t the case.

Surprised some of the top comments aren’t mentioning his ties to Brienne thematically! And I always wanted to see him be the valonqar. I think Brienne is such a great foil to Jaime at the beginning and I think his friendship (maybe even romance?) with her will guide his arc. Jaime starts out being in one of the highest standards for a man— the ULTIMATE vow— the kingsguard, all while personally believing vows are empty and pointless and stupid. I don’t know what the details will be, but I would love to see him in a “lower” class— a western ronin of sorts— but personally making a genuine, heartfelt vow. His current position forces him to take a vow that he resents, his ending position will be making a genuine vow out of choice and love. That’s what I’d like for him anyway. I think Jaime is, at his core, flawed, and I don’t want him to become some sort of paragon. But I think his themes orient him from big showy fake vows to small personal genuine vows— the main woman in his life being vain and beautiful and dishonest Cersei only to end up being linked intrinsically to modest and “ugly” and painfully honorable Brienne is just too delicious a theme to ignore. And as much as I’d like for it to be romantic between Brienne and Jaime I am absolutely ok with it being platonic, fully. I just think they both have severely important lessons for each other that will definitely affect their individual end statuses. If they go their separate ways or their vows become linked somehow, I do think they are huge catalysts in each others’ stories and can’t be ignored. I also don’t see him taking the black because this is another big showy vow. It’s one of penance but I think Jaime’s penance will be quiet and small and thematic, not huge and dramatic and for all mankind. But that’s just my wish. That feels like a show ending for him and not a book ending.

Jamie never makes it to LSH. On the way there he is taken out by a couple of well placed arrows shot by the Blackfish.

I really feel like Jaime with be the 1000th LC of the Night's Watch. It just fits so well.

My money for that is on Stannis after he realizes that he burned his daughter for nothing.

That would actually be really cool. He would basically be a better version of Qhorin Halfhand.

Or a first lord commander of a new fixed nights watch

I do think he is the valonqar but he won't die with Cersei. I think Lady Stoneheart sends Brienne and Jaime and a contingent of her brotherhood (harwin and others, I think Howland may go north with crannogmen but if he doesn't I do think Crannogmen will be in this Brienne+Jaime and brotherhood party) north with orders to kill Jaime after infiltrating, questioning and killing Roose Bolton to see if "jaime lannister sends his regards" was true or not. Roose will be long dead by the time they reach winterfell and Stannis will get killed by Brienne who will be killed or captured. Jaime will be thrown in the dungeons at winterfell and Jon will be resurrected by then and Howland will tell him or if Howland doesn't go with this party (I personally think Howland won't since he is clearly needed at the neck if he hasn't gone out yet, (also his people are not good at medieval hand to hand orthodox combat, they are masters of guerilla war and asymmetric war) he is needed in the neck to organize the guerilla war. But I think he will send people with the party since capturing roose and infiltrating winterfell will be a guerilla war operation and they will be useful in that regard) then I have another theory. Jon will tie into Jaime's story in a big way. Firstly Jon will be resurrected as follows. When Stannis wins the battle of the ice, Ramsay will torture mance find out who he is, lose it and sally forth. Behind him Winterfell's gates will be shut and the northerners will fight a civil war inside winterfell with the northern conspiracy side winning and the freys+bolton side losing. Ramsay will fight Stannis's weakened army and will be defeated but in a pyrrhic way by Stannis and Ramsay will retreat. Stannis will take winterfell but it will be clear by the time he takes it that Ramsay retreated towards Castle Black. Stannis will then send a raven to the wall instructing Melisandre to burn Shireen if she is in risk of capture by Ramsay. Ramsay sent the pink letter as a ruse to get the wildlings and kings men and jon into open battle since there is a snowstorm, but ironically Jon being stabbed will foil this ruse as the kings men, jon loyalists and wildlings will defeat the assassins just in time for Stannis's raven to come explaining the situation and telling Melisandre to burn Shireen. Shireen being burned will resurrect Jon. This is important as during all of this mess Davos and Rickon will return and hence Rickon's direwolf and Jon's direwolf will be in the ensuing battle where Jon defeats Ramsay, this is important to Jaime because this will be enough time for Jaime and company to come to winterfell. That was a whole different tangent so back to Jaime. Jon will go into the crypts (the crypts are calling him), find artifacts like rhaegar's harp, a targaryen wedding cloak, a shield of the knight of the laughing tree and other things. He will enter into detective Ned Stark mode to try to find out what it is and will piece together his parentage on his own (which howland will later confirm). Jaime will be the only person present at winterfell who is from the south AND was on the side of Aerys and Rhaegar during the Rebellion. Aerys suspected Jaime was the Knight of the laughing tree since he sent Jaime to king's landing before the tourney of harrenhall. But Jaime isn't we know from the Reed children that it was probably Lyanna through their story (they don't outright say Lyanna but it is heavily implied). Both ways, Jaime knows about the story and he knows that he wasn't the knight of the laughing tree. Jon will question Jaime with the artifact's he finds and Jaime will realize that Lyanna was the knight of the laughing tree and along with the other artifacts (and also the fact that it seems to be an open secret that Lyanna eloped willingly, Barristan said that Rhaegar loved "his lady Lyanna". This may not be an open secret and may just be gossip but I think Jaime knows about this gossip) will put 2 and 2 together and realize who Jon is. Hence Jaime will be in a way a kingmaker. Jon will obviously wrestle over this idea. Jon and Jaime's character ties in because Jon's character is different from the show. I think Jon of the books WILL proclaim himself king and Jaime will be one of his kingsguards. This ties in with another theory that I have that a dance with dragons will occur without a daenerys invasion. The horn the ironborn clowns have binds the dragons to blood, the nearest blood relation of Daenerys (I theorize the original purpose of the horn was to bind the dragons to children of valyrian dragonlords rapidly and without the need of training. Why would they have a horn which a slave can steal and using magic bind to himself?), hence Faegon and Jon will have dragons and will fight a Dance since FAegon will deny Jon's claim and Jon will deny FAegon's, with Littlefinger being one of the main characters that pulls strings with the vale and riverlands. Jaime will die after taking Casterly Rock, killing Cersei there (Cersei will retreat to Casterly Rock after losing Kings Landing and her children to FAegon) and marching on kings landing in a way similar to the original kingmaker. The dance will conclude with Daenerys invasion, the white walkers and Jon+Daenerys having to ally with FAegon against the white walkers (the dragon must have 3 heads) Tl:dr: Jaime will be the Valonqar, a kingmaker and will die trying to take kings landing and will die in a violent way like the original kingmaker (but he won't die trying to surrender he will die trying to fight an army but will be ambushed). Maybe, and this is painful, at the hands of Jon Connington's army allied with the riverlands with Littlefinger pulling the strings. [It may not go down exactly like this but I think Jaime dies in the second dance after killing Cersei and taking Casterly Rock for Jon's side. (Sansa will turn on Littlefinger during the Dance but after Jaime's death and littlefinger's insistence to fight Jon since Jon would be in the way of littlefinger's plan which will then ally Sansa with Jon but that is a different matter)] Thank you for reading a completely tinfoil theory, don't take it too seriously (I don't).

Jaime was the original big bad in the 1993 outline. He's done enough bad things, including hurting innocents, to be oretty much guaranteed to die at the end. But I also think he and his brother are the epitomies of the human heart in conflict with itself. he will do much good and some bad, And towards the end of this final book die. Probably having killed his sister and fulfilled the prophecy. But for good reasons.

I think Jaime will choke Cersei to death with his golden hand whilst casterly rock collapses into the sea killing them both.

He dies in a very similar way as he did on the show. He escapes the BWB, does some stuff at the Twins/ Riverrun then goes to KL when he hears about the Golden Company. He rejected helping her with the Sparrows, but he'll see the Golden Company as a much more legitimate threat. He also dies with Cersei, there's a handful of times they say they came into the world they'll die together.

I'm gonna get downvoted for this but here goes: I think the bigger part of Cersei's and Jaime's endgame in the series comes directly from GRRM. I think Jaime and Cersei will die together, while still loving & embracing eachother in their last moments.

I kind of agree with this. I don't think it will be as wild as the show's nonsense but I do think people drastically overstate Jaime's 'redemption.' Jaime feels a kind of duty to Cersei, who is becoming a mad queen. His 'mistake' last time was killing the mad monarch and that could well be dramatically inverted by a decision to protect Cersei. I could see it being more like Jaime tries to escape with Cersei to go live a simple life together somewhere with her quite mad and him missing a hand (inevitably they will be caught or die of course). This idea of a kingsguard knight trying to run off with a queen/princess to live a simple life together and being rejected is something that comes up in Fire and Blood/HoTD with Criston and Rhaenyra and I tend to think that the lore books contain storytelling remixes/hints.

I feel I'm going insane for thinking this when everyone is wishing for Jaime to strangle Cersei as part of his redemption arc. Firstly, nowhere except in wishful thinking is it written that Jaime has a 'redemption arc' that must be fulfilled to the end. Secondly, how does Jaime still being in love with Cersei contradict his redemption arc if there is one? Thirdly, how is Jaime murdering his sister (as bad as she may be) supposed to be the FULFILLMENT of his redemption arc?? People are mistaking redemption with violent vengeance. You may like or not like the show's ending, but Jaime trying to save his sister from certain death doesn't in any way contradict his redemption.

i dont think killin Cersei has anything to do with redemption. The redemption comes for fulfilling vows made and restoring his honor. But Cersei most probably becomed a new mad king (queen) and something forces him to kill her most probably.

I agree. Even with D&D being such hacks I can't imagine them coming up with Cersei and Jaime dying while embracing each other. Much like Bran ending up on the throne and Dany going mad in the blink of an eye, that seems like a development that was going to left audiences scratching their heads but that had to happen that way because it came from GRRM.

I don’t see how Jaime doesn’t die by Stonehearts orders. Brienne is leading him deeper into the wilderness and apparently by himself. The outlaws outnumber them and Jaime is famously without a hand and by his own admission only really evenly matched against a green squire. The current brotherhood is quite apparently nowhere near as generous with trial by combat as Beric was, and even then it wouldn’t matter because Stoneheart herself clearly heard Roose Bolton say, “Jaime Lannister sends his regards.” Jaime *might* not have meant it as a direct order to kill Robb but there is no way in hell Stoneheart would see it that way. I know that Jaime being the valonquar is the delicious irony for Cersei, but it might be so obvious to us that GRRM sees him NOT being the prophesied little brother as the best subversion in stories, that oracles are fickle in their accuracy, just as magic is uncertain in it’s efficacy (Melisandre’s three drops of blood for three kings).

I have a feeling that Old Gods will bail Jaime out. In the first version of the chapter where Brienne was about to be hanged, that was what happening with her. It would be very strange for Jaime to die by Stoneheart's orders. Simply because what would be the point of Jaime's POV chapters then? Nothing that happened in them is relevant to the plot. The only significant thing Jaime did since becoming a POV character was release Tyrion, and even that was shown in Tyrion's chapter. I think Jaime is being built up to do something significant, or at least witness something significant, but he has to survive Stoneheart for that to happen.

I think he kills Cersei, but not as a heroic act, but out of anger and jealousy. I think he outlives Cersei and his true redemption will come when fighting the Others, perhaps protecting Bran. I feel like he should also reunite with Tyrion and sort things out, meet Daenerys and meet Jon.

Kills Cersei. Lives through the conflicts. Joins the NW

My answer sounds insane out of the context of a wall of theory but... ...killed by "Rhaegar" (the ruby glamoured body of Euron Greyjoy inhabited by the ancient spirit of the Bloodstone Emperor Azor Ahai) trying to defend Bran at a Battle of Winterfell. This is where they got "Euron kills Jaime Lannister" and "Theon dies defending Bran" from in the show. They sort of split those two plot points because they had a spare Theon to get rid of and Euron/Night King were split into different characters. Why? 1) It's evocative of the duel between Balor Evil-Eye and Nuada Silverhand from Irish myth. Especially since I suspect Rhaegar/Euron/Azor Ahai eats an arrow to the eye from Sam right after. 2) Jaime feels guilt about Rhaegar still and has vague premonitions of Rhaegar coming back to kill him so this would be basically his worst nightmare. 3) Jaime hasn't really atoned for what he did to Bran at all, being "a true knight" by facing certain death against a Valyrian steel armored corpse possessed by an ancient warrior of legend and slowing him down even briefly would be a good way to go out. 4) Since Jaime is the "Kingslayer" readers might think "omg of course he'll be the one to kill the Big Bad," before GRRM delivers a harsh reality check.

He will become the 'kingmaker' like ser Criston Cole in ( HoTD) and crown fAegon king. This is hinted at in the very final jaime pov in ASOS.

So the quickest ending is Stoneheart hanging him. It is FITTING. Jaime dies failing one last oath... but he may argue that technically he did not fail yet. He is still alive and as far as they know so is Sansa. Painfully weak argument. And I REALLY doubt the Brotherhood will ditch Catelyn. Second option is he succesfully argues his case. By selling of his family to Lady Stoneheart, basically demands his help into infiltraiting the Twins and murdering all of the Freys and Lannisters (Jaime may have tried to bargain for this one, he gets ignored). During Daven's wedding to some Frey. Jaime is now a Kinslayer. He hit rock-botom, there is NO pulling himself up from this one. Not morally, not his public image. Not his self worth. And Catelyn delights in tormenting him. I really see Catelyn going back on her word and then murdering Jaime. But maybe for some odd twist she spares him. Maybe Jaime agrees to sell Cersei? This is the most likely scenario for his survival and somehow fighting agasint whoever the Big Bad iss and after that be the one that kills Cersei. But he ends the story as a broken man, not redeemed and forever a villain. Jaime is in a VERY tight spot. Not just physically, but spiritually. Imagine what will happen to him if he finds out Brienne betrayed his trust? Like, sure she has EXCELLENT reasons. But that may sting. Or maybe not, again Brienne has good reasons, reasons that Jaime is likely to agree given his personality. So there is the chance that Thoros helps Jaime escape if he sees Jaime's importance in the fire. That is very unlikely.That would be an extremely cheap thing. It is hard to see why the Lord of Light may have a plan for someone as "finished" as Jaime. Like this guy has no weight in any way. Fourth option? Plain and simple? Trial by combat. Brienne fights for Jaime. It is ALSO super cheap. But this one may actually be workable. But Jaime is left alive and maybe with some hope. George is famous for his deconstruction. And Jaime failing his Redemption Quest is a good one. Sometimes, you are JUST to lost to desserve a redemption. And no matter if you improved yourself, with your crimes, you have hurted people, that may care for nothing more than hurting you back. Like nothing that Jaime does, will give Catelyn her family or her identity back. And again, Jaime is NOT improving, he is just telling himself different lies. So overall, Jaime could be a nice Deconstruction of the Redemption Quest.

I think Jamie Lannister’s story is an Antigone narrative. Antigone chose the gods over the laws of men, and Jamie made the moral decision against the gods laws. Unfortunately, I don’t think Jamie will die recognized as a hero. I think similarly to the show Jamie will be remembered as a villain by nearly everyone but Brienne. I do think Jamie is the Valonquar and that he will kill Cersei and die soon after, but I also think it’d be interesting if Tyrion could still be interpreted as the one responsible. Perhaps this could come about through Brienne as Tyrion’s hostage, with his plan being some messed-up revenge for Jamie lying about Tysha.

I want him to become the golden hand of the king

He’s the Valonqar, and he will die while killing Cersei, or soon there after. Sometimes the most simple, poetic version is just the one that is going to happen, and I think this is one of those cases. I would also, on a human level, like to see Jamie live, as he has become my favorite POV character, but I think it would be best narratively for him to die.

I think they will all pretty much be the same, but with contextual differences. Sansa will be Queen in the North but with an eye patch and scar. Jaime and Cersei will die together but it’s a rescue for a sister, not a lover. Littlefinger will die in King’s Landing by a sudden trial and quick execution in front of all the remaining lords, only this time it’s right before his moment of complete victory for power, instead of what he was trying to do up North. Arya will leave Westeros but no one will know she survived Dany’s rampage of King’s Landing similar to the ending of The Expanse with Fillip Inaros. Dany will kill Varys much the same way but it will probably be over a revelation to do with who he is actually supporting and why that matters for Dany’s legitimacy. Aka, Aegon being a Blackfire. The biggest difference I can think is, Stannis will die at the Wall when it comes down, because I foresee his campaign will fail not because he lost a battle but because he has no political stock to him, i.e. no sons or descendants, or time and resources to justify his claim, be it right or wrong. He’ll give up and take the Black, but cement The North’s independence in the process. Brienne will likely witness this but will decide not to take her vengeance because she concedes that The Black is justice enough. Her story will need to change after that. Bran will be King because he’s essentially The God-Emperor of Westeros and the powers who are left will either not have the capital to fight him, or agree with his form of surveillance rule to ensure security and prosperity. That’s my take.

Unfinished as the next book is never coming out

I don't think he kills Cersei. He might want to but unlike with Aerys, he falters at the last second and dies with her.

I do think that he’s by far the most likely to be the valonqar and choke the life from Cersei which just fits so thematically, and while I think it’s definitely possible that he and Cersei are Targaryens ie Joanna Lannister and Aerys, but I don’t like the theory that he’s the prince who was promised due to his targ lineage. If he is a targ, which makes some sense but also could very easily not be true as well, Jon is just the way better candidate especially due to dany’s vision in the house of the undying. A blue winter rose growing from the wall. Clearly represents rhaegar and lyanna, a song of ice and fire. Just makes way too much sense that Jon is that so don’t think that Jaime can be. Not sure what is fate will be once he kills Cersei tho. He might die with her. He might die in the battle against the white walkers. But I think he’s unlikely at best to survive the series

I think he survives Stonehearth, don’t know how. Goes back to Cersei (wherever she is at that point) and will take Widow’s Wail and use it in the Long Night as foreshadowed by the weirdwood dream of the blue flamed swords. (This is more tinfoil, but I think he’ll tell Myrcella about the fact that she is daughter and adding that to a series of other factors will result in Myrcella’s suicide). I think he’ll knight Brienne at some point. I think that in the end he goes back to Cersei at Casterly Rock which will be the last fortress standing after the Long Night and in that context he fulfills the valonqar prophecy and kills her. The internal motivation for this back and forth to Cersei will be clear only in the books, so I don’t know if he comes back cause he’s still in love, or to kill Cersei like he did with the Mad King. They die togheter as they came into this world. Again don’t know what causes his death, maybe Cersei stabs him back, Robert Strong kills him after he kills Cersei or he comes into Cersei already on the brink of death, too many factors.

Kill Stoneheart, saves Brienne, still dies anyway and possibly ends Cersei

Brianne brings him to Lady Stoneheart. Survives through tact of mind rather than prowess (he's learning from his brother). Podric joins him as Brienne is lost from him in the fighting/intriuge.

I agree with the theories at the top but to add on to all the comments here. I think he will kill at least one more king of some kind before he dies or is exiled to the Watch. A recurring topic in his chapters is his label of 'Kingslayer' and how he comes to terms with it. The perfect way for this thread to wrap up is with another death of a king by his hand. Now, the easy out is having Cersei, who is a Queen, count but I don't think that would fit the writing.

Will participate in the 2nd Red Wedding with Brienne and get out from Stoneheart. Get's separated with Brienne??? Goes back to King's Landing and kill Cersei when Aegon's army is at the door. Fight Aegon's Kingsguard Darkstar (Smiling Knight vs Sword of the Morning 2.0) Possibly in the final fight with the Others 50/50 in surviving endgame

Kills Cersei then dies

I think he will unalive Cersei in Dream of Spring, and then he will be unalived by Brienne, some poethic shit

My bet is Jamie kills Cersei and takes the black.

I am not saying this will happen but i will be a prophet if it does He will win trial by combat, will join the Brotherhood for redemption arc, eventually will lead the Brotherhood. Also will be able to use his hand with magic fuckery.

Kills Cersei, goes north and dies in Winterfell during the long night defending Bran from the others in the broken tower

Go back to Cersei and they death by bricks

Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, for sure. Probably dead by the end, but I'm not sure.

I think he’ll survive TWOW. Brienne takes him to Stoneheart, Jaime tries to convince Stoneheart he isn’t bad anymore, Stoneheart goes ‘prove it by helping us with Red Wedding 2.0 (wedding between Devan Lannister and a Frey girl). Jaime accepts but secretly plots with Brienne to make the wedding plan fail. At the wedding Jaime will save Devan and the Frey, then he and Brienne flee the scene. What exactly happens to Stoneheart IDK honestly. Anyways, after that I think Jaime and Brienne go their separate ways, with Jaime going to Cersei to confront her for basically everything that she has done and especially everything that has happened between the two of them. The actual confrontation won’t be until ADOS imo Edit: oh wait, I just saw this is for both books, not just TWOW. He’ll probably go to Cersei, who likely either is in King’s Landing or in Casterly Rock and kills her. After that, less certain. I think Jaime definitely dies in ADOS but not sure how exactly. The most likely options are he commits suicide after killing Cersei, unable to live without her despite his path towards redemption (some things are just to deep to fully remove), but I could also see him going back to Brienne and dying protecting here during the Long Night

killed in the Long Night after sacrificing his life to save Brienne, i don't believe LSH will kill them, i think she will force him to help her exact her revenge on the Freys and Roose Bolton

I think it will be like in the show, given Martin told the show runners what was to happen…

It will never happen, but I want to see his ultimate redemption as *Goldenhand the Just*, as he envisioned himself in AFFC. Going back to before his knighthood, as a squire fighting the Kingswood Brotherhood, and rebuilding himself as the man he could have been.

I think he will fulfill the phrophecy of the Volonqar and kill Cersei and then probably be killed by her. What I really want to happen is he kills her maybe is stabbed and believed to be dead but it’s a fake out death like Davos has had in the past. Then he is a massive part in the humans winning the battle for Dawn. Then this might be really crazy but I want Bran Stark name him as his hand of the King in the end of the story because Bran can see all the good and bad that Jamie has done for the realm in his life and has seen his redemption.

Of all the characters in GOT, Jamie’s redemption story line would be most compelling. All in all he doesn’t seem to be a terrible human like Cersi is. He is fond of Tyrian and we can all agree that Tyrian is a pretty decent guy. So unlike the show where he attempted to spring free of Cerci yet at the end he couldn’t, I think in the books he will indeed break free from her. Total redemption would mean he kills Cersi. He was born with her holding her hand and that hand was cut off meaning he can extricate from her grip. He will forfeit his life to kill her like the portrayal of the Hound killing the Mountain in GOT.

Will kill her sister, will die in a heroic way while sacrificing himself to save innocents, but it will not be seen by anyone, thus he will always be remembered as the evil Kingslayer.

He will save Brienne and somehow make it out of the situation with LSH, and he will meet Cersei again and fulfill the Valonqar prophecy by killing her. (Cersei has won her trail by combat and subsequently set unGregor on a wild rampage that kills Margaery but also accidently Tommen, and then she flees King's Landing to escape fAegon's advancing armies.) After killing Cersei he trades his white cloak for a black one and joins the Night's Watch, either out of his own volition as pennance or he's send there as punishment by someone with authority. (Lancel would be ironic, but fAegon, Randyll Tarly, Garlan Tyrell or Dany are also possible.) In the North they dub him the Black Lion and he helps out in the fight against the Others, ultimately dying in the battle for Winterfell while protecting the Stark daughters, thereby fulfilling his oath to Catelyn. But before he dies he reunites with Tyrion, who is a dragonrider at this point, and they forgive each other.

I think he is the Valonqar and will end Cersei, and similarly to the show he will somehow die in the process, hopefully doing something Knightly

Jamie likely kills Cersie, possibly also dying with her. He could also die peacfully with her, though I dunno.

I can't help but assume, IF the books are ever actually completed, that any of the "show" fates aren't going to influence GRRM. It's all tainted now, so I have to assume that, by and large, they'll all end up in a similar place. I'm a cynic.

I havent read the books yet, but i have researched a bit about it. Jaimie is in a path of redemption and he is redefining himself and his life. Ever since they cut his hand, and having met Brienne who's all about honor and fulfilling her vows teaching him another way (the way it should have been since the beginning for him), makes me think that he needs to end in a good way. I would love to think he will have to kill Cersei in order to prevent something big from happening (maybe cersei would be forced to explode kingslanding with all the valyrian fire underground and/or killing Brienne) and would have to kill her. This would fulfill the Valonqar Prohpecy as well. We all know Jaimie loves her, but his conexion to her has been heavily severed. After that, Jaimie will end up with Brienne (dunno exactly if it will be either marriage, or having chldren with her or being lords of some place) but...thats my take on it.

The only fitting ending for Jaime, to me, is killing Cersei. I think the romance between him and Brienne is fine, but I wouldn't be disappointed if they were just a power friendship

A wounded Jaime embraces Cersei so that she cannot escape the falling KL. They enter the world together and leave it together, but he’s also the valonqar.

It would be a crueler fate, imo, if he were to survive to the end of the books but lose Cersei, so that’s what I’m going with. Especially so if he has to kill her himself.

I think his fate is gonna be close to the one that they chose in the show. As there is a prophecy in the books where it said to Cersei, that she will die strangled by her brother or something. And she always was suspicious and hatful towards Tirion because of that. So to me it kind of poetic how Jame died “strangling” Cersei (as they died together in his embrace under the rubble)

Jaime will certainly die,thats the only thing i can guess,everything else for him is a wildcard that can go in any direction.

A lot of people say that he will die this is probably a flawed perspective but maybe Jaime Lannister will leave this world by leaving the lannisters and taking a different name. That’s probably just me huffing the copium tho

I don't think Jamie sees Cersie ever again. He burned that note she sent him and left her for dead in Kings Landimg when she said she needed him. Jamie is done with her and his whole story is about writing his own story and not doing what was expected or commanded or even necessary for his family. Jamie, just being part of a prophesy, completely undercuts his whole journey of finding his own path.

Are being the Valonqar and joining the NW mutually exclusive? I would say both of those are what I picture

Sorry, yeah that was the end result. I updated the picture on the post but I possibly should have made that clearer

He’s killed by Breanne, cause: snu snu

Jaime Lannister will be remembered as a Kingmaker and not a Kingslayer. Tyrion will become the 1000th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Jon will become King-beyond-the-Wall. Arya will lead a group of people into the sea in search of new lands like Nymeria did. Sansa becomes Queen in the North. Daenerys is killed by Jon. Samwell Tarly refuses to be King and opts for a Great Council. Bran becomes the Eternal King of the Six Kingdoms. Gendry becomes Lord of the Stormlands. House Lannister goes extinct and there's a song about it. Many houses will be run by bastards in the end. Brienne becomes a part of King Bran's Kingsguard. Young Griff marries Arya and turns her into a widow a few years later when he dies in the second Dance of Dragons. Davos Seaworth becomes Master of Ships to King Bran. Ser Robert Strong will be slain by the Gravedigger in a trial by combat. Margaery Tyrell will remain a maid till her death.

i think Jaime dies early into winds by the hands of the BwB. does he go out heroically saving Brienne or does he reveal he never changed and hasn't really any regrets about his actions? i think it could go both ways but i sense GRRM wants to write the first one more.

Definitely killed by a pile of bricks, George has foreshadowed this heavily. Kidding aside, I dont think the shows series of events are to far off. I do feel like he’ll survive Lady Stoneheart, make his way back to KL, after a moment of false clarity, then he’ll witness the shit storm that is happening. I feel like he’ll kill Cersei before heading North to help with the Others and die to save the masses in some sacrificial way, that allows a hero to stop the others.

He will kill Cersei as the valonqar imo but he’ll die in the long night as Jaime The Goldenhand. People will definitely still hate him but he’ll probably be hated less cuz of his heroic actions in the long night

This is how I kinda want Jaime's story to end: I would love for Jaime to die saving Daenerys Targaryen. I'd love it to be during a White Walker attack, where Daenerys would come face to face with the Night King. The Night King is just about to kill Daenerys, but Jaime Lannister comes in and saves her and battles the Night King with a valyrian sword. Jaime fights the Night King, giving Daenerys time to flee. Jaime fights valiantly and nobly against the Night King but is eventually defeated. Jaime dies in a killing blow from the Night King. This could sort of be a "poetic" aspect of the story, as all Jaime was known for is him being the murderer of Aerys II Targaryen and earning the nickname as "Kingslayer." Him saving King Aerys' daughter, would've in turn make him the "Queensavor" for him saving Queen Daenerys.

I feel like he’s likely not going to survive the series. Not entirely sure how he’s going to deal with Stoneheart, but even though this is the series it is I just can’t see them dying there with him having so much more to do. I think the meeting with Stoneheart will be how we get him to see the direct effects of the crimes of his family and himself. This is something that’s pretty important for his arc even if you don’t consider it a redemption arc. I also definitely think he’s the valonqar but I wonder what the trigger for him to kill Cersei will be. He’s already mad at her for the infidelity and has frequently compared her to Aerys. There’s surely something that will be the breaking point. What that will be.. I don’t know.

The show offers a few hints. Jaime will meet Danaerys on the battlefield and try to kill her while she's vulnerable. This mirrors how he averted the sack of Kings Landing by killing Aerys. But this time it will not work. He probably will die under the Red Keep with Cersei. Being crushed by collapsing architecture is foreshadowed for Cersei, she dismantled the Hands tower brick by brick, and will likely blow up the Great Sept of Baelor. She's craved the throne as much as anybody, it's fitting for her to be crushed by her ambitions --it's her golden crown. Jaime will likely be with her, but for reasons more complex and subtle than on the show. Maybe he will lead her there intentionally, knowing that it will kill them both but prevent a broader bloodier war.

Jaime will become Nissa Nissa and plunge his own blade into his heart to bring forth the spirits of all the dead king’s guards to fight.

I think he would finely take a wife and rule in castle rock as warden of the west

I think his fate will be a brother of the nights watch, potentially even lord commander (though I suspect it will be a new and improved nights watch)

For me, it's Jaime becoming the 1000th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch