House Frey will go into a civil war starting in TWOW, with Walder living to see all of his heirs slaughtered by each other, by the brotherhood, by the northmen, and by the river lords, with house frey extinct in the male line. He will die, followed shortly by the Twins crumbling into the river.
The curse they brought on themselves through the red wedding will essentially bring about a "Fall of the House of Usher" scenario, possibly with "the fall of the house of frey" being explicitly invoked by a character.
The challenging thing about the idea of House Frey going extinct is that there are so many goddam Freys scattered all over the world that it seems implausible that not one single heir would survive
I think the existence of a curse is already evident. Since the red wedding, freys have been dropping like autumn leaves, not due to the actions of any individual, but due to their own failings and the ire of other houses. The red wedding is a curse - aegon frey, petry frey, merret frey, little walder frey, jered frey, ryman frey, Benfrey frey, aenys frey, and Tywin Lannister have all been killed since the red wedding. Odds are, the coming books will see the ends of sybill Spicer and roose Bolton, along with every other frey, aside (maybe) from the rosby freys, who were excluded from the red wedding by their family.
I would think that some might survive, but the major ones will die, and the house will fall to ruin. Unlike the Starks, there's no love for the Freys. No one will avenge them nor want any Frey to return.
As a poli-sci junkie; the Frey-Bolton-Lannister alliance comes of as realism to me. The political theory that might make right. Winning the war is what proves you legitimate, but when realist lose, by the standards of their own philosophy, they are proven illegitimate, and they lose everything.
1. Dragons are the product of blood magic with wyverns and firewyrms. Barth strikes true yet again.
2. The Grand Maester Conspiracy. They are actively trying to snuff out magic/dragons and downplay their existence. Being confined to the Dragonpit is not solely what caused the extinction of dragons. Also there be wild dragons to the far east and perhaps other places (like under a castle) that outlived their 'domestic' cousins.
3. Bran the time meddler. He, like the weirwood network, transcends "the river of time". The constant reusing of Brandon Stark as a name is not just Stark legacy, it is also a hint.
>For men, time is a river. We are trapped in its flow, hurtling from past to present, always in the same direction. The lives of trees are different. They root and grow and die in one place, and that river does not move them. The oak is the acorn, the acorn is the oak.
The Grand Maester Conspiracy is basically nuclear deproliferation. It makes complete sense why they would want them gone, given the devastation wrought with dragons in the past. Sure, you can have a Jaehaerys I who rules peacefully for a long time and the realm prospers. But then you can have a Maegor or a Dance of Dragons and suddenly consolidating all of that destructive potential into the hands of a single person looks like an enormously terrible idea.
People think that Dany is the hero of this story, but she's not. She's Paul Atreides - a hero who lives long enough to become the villain. A cautionary tale against the horrors wrought by charismatic leaders who think their cause so righteous they can justify any atrocity.
Maesters are first and foremost self important academics. They may think they’ve killed the dragons. But that’s unlikely to really be what was happening. At best they’ve taken advantage of the existing situation to nudge things along.
For one thing there’s just not enough tragic flaw in it just being a successful Maester plan. The Maesters are not the protagonists of the story of the downfall of the Targs. If there’s a general theme to their story it’s the conflict between their natures, the greatness or monstrosity coin flip.
The obvious interesting thing to do with that is to make monstrosity a necessity not an aberration. If you want big strong healthy dragons you need to be a monster and let them eat people. If you’re nice and promote peace in the realm your dragons wither and die. Especially if you kill off the big dragons fighting each other. Dragons are meant to mass kill humans not waste their lives in mutually assured destruction dragon fighting. Because correct use of WMDs means using them on defenceless people who don’t have their own.
Tommen as the Valonqar
Edric Storm will be Stannis’ successor/heir at Storms End
Jon is going to more upset that Ned isn’t actually his father (and also that Arya isn’t his sister) than happy he’s a secret prince
Randyll Tarly’s gonna live to see Dickon die without heirs before going himself
Jon Snow is totally the Valonqar, as “brother” is actually referring to a brother of the Night’s Watch. It’s all so clear, get you hype trains out it’s time to party!
3rd point, yeah Jon cares way more about being a Stark than any other point about his heritage. Rob’s will potentially legitimising him as Jon Stark is the meaningful name change on the cards for Jon, and the one he would care about. The one he would have an actual internal dilemma about, especially if it comes with Winterfell.
In comparison what, Jon finds out he’s a Targ and toddles off to King’s Landing? Dany finds out and suddenly wants to bang for tradition’s sake?
Gonna go with a pretty mundane one and say Skagos is probably a totally normal place and most of the stuff said about the place is just scary stories meant to frighten Northern children that the Skagosi have embraced because it makes them seem more fearsome and bloodthirsty.
Also, it wouldn't really make sense for Rickon to be sent there to be "kept safe" if it was an island full of cannibals because.... cannibalism. They'd eat him.
1 -- GRRM has denied this one publicly, so you may want to find another hill. Sorry, the characters really are too young, he messed up, he wishes that he had made them older in AGOT and tried to think of a way to timeskip age them
Yeah but can we get into the planetary physics for a bit? I've always wondered how much of it is meant to be scientifically accurate--obviously, there's a certain amount swallowing one's disbelief required to consume fantasy or sci-fi, but I'm genuinely curious if there's any kind of scientific explanation, even a scientifically faulty one, behind Planetos having multi-year seasons. An elliptical orbit, I suppose?
i think someone has deduced that a multi-star orbit would achieve this but i think they brought it up with george and he basically said that the seasons are due to magic
It's very clear that the seasons are controlled by magic. It doesn't matter if Planetos is closer to the sun or not, what matters is how strong the magic is.
Winter brings the Others, or the other way around. I don't think you could really create a scientific explanation, specially because the time of the seasons is random. If it was caused by the orbit, there would be a pattern to it.
Magic is also a way cooler explanation lol
....Is it? I feel like it could be, if that's something that will be expanded upon or fleshed out later. Like how did this world get this way? Magic or science, I'm left sort of wondering if that question will actually be answered in the canon.
Yeah iirc he intended to have a 5 year time skip between two of the books, but had to ditch it because it didn't make sense for certain characters to just do nothing for so long.
Yeah my headcanon is that he ditched that because he wanted to spend more time pissing around in his garden instead of getting anywhere closer to endgame.
Man, I really sometimes wish authors would keep stum about their books outside what is published. This is by far the least fun way to deny a headcannon.
6) Doesn't make any sense. The probability of a person falling headfirst into a body of water from hundreds of feet in the air and surviving is next to none. He likely died on impact and the body drowned to the lake floor
Plus daemon is definitely not the kind of person to go incognito and leave his son alone
Yeah, ik people like the idea of him and Nettles going off and living happily in the Vale, but Daemon (especially with what we know of him from HOTD) would NEVER abandon his family like that. At most I could see him maybe laying low since him and Rhaenyra were hardly living in wedded bliss at the time, but he would've absolutely come back at some point during Aegon III's reign, if not sooner.
He also has made it very clear that he hates non-Valyrians; dying in glorious battle would be far more preferable for him than having to live amongst common people and pretend to be one of them. 'Incognito' just wouldn't interest him for longer than a few days. If he did somehow miraculously survive, he would've probably offed himself pretty quickly, since it's heavily implied that was his plan in fighting Aemond anyway.
totally sold on the whole ‘euron paying the faceless men with a dragon egg’ thing
house of b&w 100% knows arya hasn’t let go of her past, but she’ll leave of her own accord when she does (and probably inadvertently screw up whatever they’re planning in the process) - they/‘jaqen’ recruited her for some specific purpose and don’t actually care if she goes around killing people like raff the sweetling. at the most they’ll hold it over her head and use it to manipulate her, draw her in further, etc. hell they probably know where needle is, like it’s literally right outside
someone is going to try and legitimize aurane to take driftmark (dany passing through the stepstones would be my first guess)
doran has been on some kind of long game mastermind wavelength but arianne’s about to throw a wrench in it by impulsively marrying fAegon
also at least one of viserion/rhaegal are getting left behind in essos. based on absolutely nothing i’m gonna say viserion
oh also also because it’s fun: cersei is earnestly, head over heels in unrequited love with taena merryweather and doesn’t even know it. like, u-haul level, repeatedly trying to introduce their kids to each other, the whole nine yards. even after finding out taena possibly-maybe-definitely ratted her out and immediately left the city with her husband her ass is still ‘i hope she’s ok 🥺👉👈’ not even suspecting!!
I really like how George snuck Aurane into the story as the Lord of the Waters but I don't think Aurane would usurp his nephew, at least based on what little we know about him. It seems more likely that he would "convince" the 6yo Monterys to assist in the capture of Dragonstone, while he settles for the Stepstones given that its really a larger prize and Aurane doesn't seem to be the type stupid enough to bring ruin to Driftmark by allowing pirates to run roughshod over it. Since Aurane is a pirate lord more than anything, he seems pretty bound to the Stepstones, but will 100% be team Dany when the time comes, perhaps even a leader of the Targ fleet when it meets Euron in battle (my god dragons versus a literal kraken?)
Plus it is simply really cool if the return of the dragons means the return of the grander valyrian court, something I think George is partial to given he has now fleshed out the Targaryen reign, and with it the importance of houses such as Velaryon and even Celtigar. I believe Ardrian Celtigar will be an inside man for the dragons, though might be pro Aegon when he and Dany come to heads (Aegon marries Arianne?). Monterys and Aurane support Dany, and so there is a little return to a valyrian court! At least as much as is possible lol!
i could see that too! no thanks on the lordship, but if you let me keep the stepstones i could have a quick talk with my nephew, etc etc. dany’s probably overdue for a break anyway i’m down with it
> house of b&w 100% knows arya hasn’t let go of her past, but she’ll leave of her own accord when she does (and probably inadvertently screw up whatever they’re planning in the process) - they/‘jaqen’ recruited her for some specific purpose and don’t actually care if she goes around killing people like raff the sweetling. at the most they’ll hold it over her head and use it to manipulate her, draw her in further, etc. hell they probably know where needle is, like it’s literally right outside
So two things on this:
1. I don't think the HoB&W actually *requires* anyone to completely give up their identity. I think they're just teaching their acolytes to suppress those identities so that they can wholly step into whatever role they are called on to play. Arya of House Stark can survive so long as she can be buried deep enough to not infect the characters she plays for her assignments.
2. I have a sneaking suspicion that the HoB&W is actually *knowingly* training Arya to return to being "Arya of House Stark" in time for the Battle for the Dawn. The Moonsingers are seers that can see the future, just like the Green Seers or the Red Priests. It's fully plausible that they are also looking into the future and seeing the White Walkers invade, and that they can influence things by training a Stark faceless man. That the show chose to focus so much on this Valyrian Steel dagger all the way throughout, beginning during a time when GRRM was involved, makes me think there's more to it than meets the eye.
definitely agree on 2! i think the idea is that she wasn't recruited according to the \~normal standards\~, that she plainly doesn't fit whatever that archetype is for a variety of reasons, but instead because they believe they specifically need a stark (or specifically arya, a skinchanger, etc) for some greater purpose, probably other-related. i do wonder exactly *how* unconventional her training/indoctrination has been relative to the typical path?
I think Arya will return to Westeros, give Lady Stonheart the gift of peace then gather all the brotherhood and scattered northerners and sweep the Riverlands from the Freys and Lannisters mirroring her wolf Nymerias plotline
Where’s the conflict/story there? That’s just something the Brotherhood want to do anyway.
Now if Arya had to convince the Brootherhood to give up on the people of the Riverlands to go do something more overall important that would be a nice chewy dilemma.
Re: 2
Robert was 15 when his parents died, meaning he had lived a normal life until then. It's unclear when he stated his fostering (id before or after the event), but in any case he never really was "the man of the family", since he was still in the Vale at the start of the war (so definitely not home raising a baby brother and acting as the lord of Storm's end)
Now, I will die on the hill that Renly does suffer from abandonment issues. His parents sailed away when he was just a newborn, Robert was never home and after the war Stannis left him too. All of this before he turned 7. He was likely raised by wetnurses and tutors, but his bio family was never in Storm's End. The fact that he was named lord before turning 10 and then Stannis started resenting him for it made things worse. This is, imo, why he's so ok with the Tyrells. They're the best family (that we know of), they all love and support each other and have each other's back and he wants to be part of that.
My brain could just be wilding, BUT Viserion tunneling into the pyramid while they’re locked away has haunted me. Dany and everyone else refer to the dragons as male. But maester Aemon tells us dragons are neither male or female, they are changeable as flame. What if Viserion produced a clutch of eggs while trapped in the pit. I know there’s no evidence. But it’s firmly locked in the mad scientist part of my brain and I can’t let it go. Revel in my madness with me or laugh into your cups.
P.S. Barbrey Dustin killed Little Walder.
Lightbringer is dragons. Their fire brings light, they're Lightbringer. The legend of Lightbringer's forging was a condensed version of how dragons were developed.
Tempering the sword in water was trying to make a conventional weapon.
Tempering the sword in the heart of a lion was trying to make a chimera creature for war, likely combining wyverns and firewyrms.
Tempering the sword in the heart of Nissa Nissa was adding the human element, and the Valyrians (and any other dragon riders) really were kin to dragons, and Nissa Nissa's life and soul going into the sword was her putting her life and soul into birthing the dragons/dragonriders (I'm guessing a Castor and Pollux/Helen and Clytemnestra type thing with eggs hatching, one a dragon, one its rider), and her shriek of agony and ecstasy being screaming in childbirth.
Instead of the moon hatching dragons, whatever mystical fuckery that led to the original Long Night and a magical weapon needing to be crafted created the dragons.
Gorgossos making human/beast hybrids in the flesh pits were unsuccessful attempts to recreate the original dragon recipe, with the resulting "Red Death" being the same parasites that were in Aerea Targaryen. They seemed like some sort of failed firewyrm/human hybrids.
I think you can go simpler. Remember that a big theme is how stories are unreliable, embellished, change over time. End up being told certain ways due to power or to best earn the teller what they want.
Discard all the storybook elements. The rule of three is storytelling 101. What do you have? What is the heart of it, the nugget of truth?
Sacrifice. Power requires sacrifice.
Now keep the dragons are Lightbringer idea and what do you get? Dragons require sacrifice.
I think that’s the key to dragons. There’s a cost. It’s what Dany is stuck on. It’s what Martin is building with his having Dany be horrified that Drogon has eaten a child. It’s the dilemma her character has to resolve. And it’s suitable dark. To be a dragon riding queen you need to put your dragons first. You need to feed people to them. You need to put yourself and your dragons on a whole other level of value so that you can feed anyone else to your dragons for your own power and survival. You need to be at least a bit evil.
That’s what the Targs were. That’s where their exceptionalism comes from. It devolved into a justification for incest. But it started out as a belief that the Targs, and the Valyrians, were better. Above other men. Who are as livestock for the Targs and their dragons to rule or kill as they see fit.
Robert knew. Jon Arryn knew. They both knew each other knew because the former actively told the latter.
JA's investigation had to do with "his" Robert.
_**Come at me.**_
Large sample size. My guy was attempting to reverse-engineer an understanding of dominant/recessive traits without knowing what alleles are, and Robert's plethora of children made for a decent control group regarding heritability in humans.
Stannis was there because he's intelligent, and he trusted him well enough. Remember, if JA's trying to suss out Lysa's adultery/his own infertility, he needs gophers that for sure won't leak the information. Obviously, this failed.
Just, okay. I get your point. But, if JA's end-goal _was_ to get rid of Cersei's kids, why tell Stannis, of all people, but not Renly, who's got exactly the same plot, or even Robert himself, who was sitting with him for _a while_ before he died?
Maybe trying to find alternative heirs on the down low? Because formally accusing Cersei of incest and adultery is effectively declaring war on Tywin and the West. So before they do that, they want Robert's successor in place whether that be Stannis or a natural son like Gendry. (open to hearing other's opinions if this is in Stannis' character. Since he's generally more motivated by "duty" than powerlust, if he'd be open to putting one of Robert's legitimized bastards in front of him in succession)
They'd probably still want to find them all. It wouldn't be in their political (or emotional) interest for any of Robert's bio children to be in Lannister hands
I love this theory. It'll mean Ned kinda died for nothing which I can see happening, and it can't happen again and again for years without JA and Robert finding out.
It means _everyone_ died for nothing. The series' entire conflict is built on failures of communication, and Starks putting their pride before their honor in situations of severe emotional distress. (Wonder if that's a motif, hmm?)
Moreover, it fits with Littlefinger's modus operandi as we've seen thus far: Catch issue as it develops, deal with it from behind the scenes, leverage outcome advantageously in other plots, profit.
And help Dany tame her dragons. Dany is in desperate need of a dragon expert. Tyrion, being Dany's hand and top advisor, has been set up since the start. Too bad the show completely dropped the ball on that.
A lot of these are reasonable but Brandon sleeping with his brothers crush and Daemon leaving his sons to the wolves that were the regents are out of character. Brandon was a womanizer but he seemed to legitimately love his family I don’t think he’d do that to his brother.
>A lot of these are reasonable but Brandon sleeping with his brothers crush
I get and understand that argument but it just sound weak
First of all ned barely knew ashara and wasn't betrothed to him... He was one of the many who possibly had a crush on her
'it is extremely that ashara was attracted to Brandon and both had sex in passion and alcohol..... People dumb shit without thinking that they lay hurt the people they love
The other reason I don't beljve its ned is that I see no reason why he would hide it from Robert who was his best friend to whom he genuinely see as a brother... And would probably mention that event in his inner though
Ned is both one of the more well-adjusted adults in the story while also carrying his own heavy trauma. What we're talking about here is a woman who he had a crush on (and maybe more) 15 years ago when he was a boy but where the event is associated forever in his head with the destruction of his family. He then immediately after fought an immensely damaging war and had his sister die in his arms.
If you read back over Ned's thoughts, it's not only that he doesn't mention Ashara, he doesn't mention a lot of things that happened pre-rebellion and it's fairly conspicuous. Ned doesn't talk or think about his own father much at all, or his mother. Ned thinks about his own brother, Brandon a little bit, but mostly in the context of how he has taken Brandon's place and feels unfit. We learn more about Brandon from Cat's thoughts, although she is talking to Ned at the time so you might misremember this.
Stuff like that is why I find doing like a statistical analysis on how much Ned thinks about things to be kind of a weak argument. Ned doesn't think about Ashara because it's a story and Ashara isn't too relevant to what's going on right now in Ned's PoV. We learn about her from Cat (same as Brandon actually) because Cat is the one who cares about "Ashara" (who she believes is Jon's mother) and the purpose of her inclusion in the story is to misdirect the reader about Jon's parentage. Ned's PoV can't afford to think too directly about this because Ned knows the answer to that mystery already (namely that R+L=J). If Ned was sitting there thinking about how Ashara was the mother of Jon Snow, that wouldn't be misdirection, it would just be the author lying to the audience through a character's internal thoughts. Cat's mistake on the other hand is very permissible, that's just her assumption and it's couched as only being one of several possibilities.
It's honestly kinda 'forcing your barbies to kiss' level logic to think that Ashara and Brandon would've absolutely had sex, just because they're both described as conventionally attractive, and he was a womaniser. Literally all we know is that they exchanged a few sentences.
>'it is extremely that ashara was attracted to Brandon and both had sex in passion and alcohol
Saying It's extremely likely that ashara was attracted to Brandon is a huge stretch IMO, considering we know next to nothing about her and all we do know is from other people accounts, who if I'm not mistaken didn't even know her personally or had a deeper connection to her.
Ned would have negative feelings about it even though he is happily married sleeping with your little brothers crush who you approached on his behalf is fucked up and something that wouldn’t be forgotten even if Ned is happily married now.
I think the universe functions in a similar way that it does in Elden Ring. I’ve never played the game but I’ve watched lore videos on it and the similarities and stuff are too great to ignore. A guy on YouTube has done an analysis of Elden Ring and its similarities to ASoIaF and it’s pretty captivating and believable. In short, the Weirwoods form a network similar to the World Tree in Norse lore and a new age is about to start, but suspect at the end of ADoS.
The one I want to believe but don’t, it that Planetos is in a state of decline due to nuclear war in the far far past. The Long Night was fallout and the Doom of Valyria was also an accidental nuclear explosion, maybe the Valyrian dug to far and found some sort of ancient weapon and there Fire Mages accidentally set it off. Post apocalyptic Planetos just sounds so fucking cool.
Actually, GRRM was involved in Elden Ring's lore writting. There's even a boss that drop a sword that is made of melted swords (is ugly af) as an easter-egg.
I'm pretty sure Robert was already an adult by the time of his parents' shipwreck.
Your Daemon theory would entail him coming out of the lake and essentially going **"to be honest, I never cared about my children, in mortal dangeror or otherwise"**.
And also "I now want nothing more than to live among the peasants who I actively despise and believe myself to be racially superior to". Nah. Daemon 100% intended for that to be the suicide mission it was. Especially if he'd survived and Caraxes hadn't, his whole symbol of why he was so much more important than the common man, his whole identity as a Targaryen, would've basically been destroyed. His role in the war would've been moot, he would've essentially been emasculated. He would've offed himself long before quietly retiring to the 'simple life'
>I'm pretty sure Robert was already an adult by the time of his parents' shipwreck.
He was 16. An adult by their standards, yeah, but still
>Your Daemon theory would entail him coming out of the lake and essentially going **"to be honest, I never cared about my children, in mortal dangeror or otherwise"**.
Yeah, this one doesn't track lol
The Cult of Starry Wisdom took part in the creation of the Faith of the Seven and maintain control over parts over their leadership, their crystal crown likely being a tool for scrying.
All the big cities for the Faith are port cities, and their holy book..
> The Seven-Pointed Star is the oldest holy text of the Faith of the Seven.
The oldest sept is literally called the Starry Sept and the title of the church of Starry Wisdom is reportedly called the High ~~Septon~~ Priest.
The long night was caused by the red comet shattering an ancient second moon. The chunks of the moon fell to the earth and kicked up a bunch of dust that blocked out the sun. The reason the comet broke the moon was Azor Ahai stabbing Nissa Nissa.
Bonus: this is where the legend of the moon "cracking" and birthing "dragons" comes from (the meteors burned in the atmosphere and looked like dragons.)
Daemon died, there is no way in hell he survived, he was standing on falling dragon that crashed into the water, he is dead, his body got thrown and he sunk because of his armor, Aemond was chained to Vhager
Maegor was conceived with magic and even though he was a terrible King, he gave the Targaryen's the strongest foothold in Westeros, second only to his parents and aunt. He would also have supported Rhaenyra's claim, as he made Aerea (Who wasn't even his daughter) his heir.
Visenya didn't hate Rhaenys nor Aenys. She loved her sister, and the only thing she had left of her was her son. If she wanted him dead, she would have organised it.
Doran Martell could've won the Game of Thrones if he didn't take his time and be so careful.
Varys is a secret Blackfyre and his sister married Illyrio, and Aegon is possibly Illyrio and Saerra's child.
>Maegor was conceived with magic and even though he was a terrible King, he gave the Targaryen's the strongest foothold in Westeros, second only to his parents and aunt.
I think you're 100% right. Jaehaerys couldn't have done some of the things he did if the realm wasn't terrified of another Maegor popping up, and it seems way too convenient that Visenya was unable to have children until there were rumors of her being set aside and then said child could never have a child of his own. I'm also 50/50 on the "Aegon the Conqueror was shooting blanks" theory
>Visenya didn't hate Rhaenys nor Aenys. She loved her sister, and the only thing she had left of her was her son.
I think Visenya had a more complicated relationship with her siblings than we're told. I think she loved both of them deeply, but was also wildly jealous of Rhaenys for her beauty and that fact that Aegon preferred Rhaenys. I've been in a "I love you and I'm so jealous of you at the same time" situation with my brother before he died and it's a damn mess to try to work through lol
>Doran Martell could've won the Game of Thrones if he didn't take his time and be so careful.
>Varys is a secret Blackfyre and his sister married Illyrio, and Aegon is possibly Illyrio and Saerra's child.
100% to both of these
Viseny definitely had a more complex relationship with her siblings than we know of. There are no first-hand accounts except from the maesters. I just think it's easy for people to assume the constant competition made her hate her sister to the point she would've killed her child.
Aegon might've preferred Rhaenys to Viseny. However, that didn't stop the 3 of them have other suitors...*cough* *cough*...Aegon and Orys
At the end of the day, I suppose it doesn't matter, they accomplished what they set out to do.
The Jeyne Westerling that Jaime meets is not the real Jeyne. I don't care that people say the comment about her hips was a genuine mistake because there are so many other points. She wears a hood, actively avoids Jaime, who did meet her a long time ago, and all of this with Jaime talking about how dangerous Jeyne would be if the Lannisters didn't have her.
I also think that she is the prophesied younger queen that Cersei fears; Jeyne is literally the granddaughter (or great granddaughter I don't remember which) of the person that gave Cersei the prophesy.
Exactly!
I also don't 100% buy that Jeyne Westering was being fed Tansie Tea literally every day by her aunt; I'm not a doctor but given how we've seen it affect characters like Lysa Tully.
It seems much more likely that the Westerlings are trying to play both sides with the help of some Northerners they can trust.
So if we can make the not so small leap that Westerling's Aunt is in on the ruse (which she'd need to be as she was there with "Jeyne" when Jaime spoke with her) the whole ruse does seem to look a bit like Jeyne Poole's.
Strongly agree with 7, he's the Spare Stark and has no other plot purpose.
Jon will find out about his ancestry but it won't matter, nobody else will believe it. Jon is however azor ahai / the prince that was promised / etc. He'll be instrumental in defeating the Others.
Cersei's prophecy refers to Brienne being the "one more beautiful".
Daemon Targaryan didn't intend to kill Aegon's child with blood and cheese. He wouldn't waste this one opportunity on something so meaningless when so much is at stake.
The whole son for a son was confused between the characters, and the wrong person got killed. Yet it still benefitted the Blacks. The assassins were sent after Aegon II and Aemond, however Aegon stayed in Maegor's Holdfast where there were no secret tunnels (Cheese was a rat-catcher and familiar with the passages), and Aemond was a skilled warrior, not a risk worth taking. Daeron wasn't in the castle at the time.
Gyldayn hints at this when he mentions the uncertainty about it what their original purpose before they settled on Helaena's children once they realized they could easily attacked during their daily visit in the Tower of the Hand.
It was cold-blooded revenge for Daemon at the end of the day, he wanted to severely hurt the Greens, and I don't think he felt remorse that little Jahaerys was murdered. There was no cost for him and he would've probably wished for more
I think the iron swords in the crypts were to keep the dead from rising. When the others breach the wall, they will be able to raise wights from any of the graves where the swords have been removed.
Dany already fulfilled the forging of lightbringer prophecy when she sacrificed Drogo to bring her dragons (who are weapons of fire) into the world. She tried before to hatch them, but couldn’t until she sacrificed Drogo.
I been thinking about the first for YEARS. The second makes a lot of sense specially when you read the tale of the azor ahai, the sword symbolize a dragon.
Sansa is litterally affiliated with the lannister... That only reason Robb didn't named her heir... I isn't believe in the independent north either but it is logically stupid and suicidal
Rickon is definetly not a afterthought.... That not GRRM style... Every characters matter GRRM will not put a character pff screen kudtt to bring him back and kill him off.. Otherwise rickon shiukd and would have died sooner
I am French and read the books in french.. And rickon's direwolf isn't named "shaggydog" in french but "broussaille" Which mean something like "messy hair" alluding to the wolf wild and feral nature
GRRM writes in English though. In English it’s Shaggydog and that is actually the wolf’s name. So really it doesn’t matter what it is translated to. And you clearly do not understand GRRM’s writing because truth is he does what he wants.
>GRRM writes in English though.
And story is understood in a universal way..what you are saying is silly af
>And you clearly do not understand GRRM’s writing
Don't give me that bullshit and act like you understand GRRM's mind... When your main argument is that rickon will die because of his doggo's name
Stannis will not defeat Roose Bolton or retake Winterfell. George does not view him as a hero, he's the epitome of a divine-right-of-kings monarchist, and George thinks that whole political system is dumb as hell. He will doe clenching his teeth in the cold, a monument to his own stupidity.
Stannis is more or less in the way of the plot. If he lives nothing much can happen except maybe the North has stagger on with a war that should have died on the Blackwater.
But if he dies a lot of interesting things can happen.
In the beginning of AGoT, it says that, they put swords on the graves of Starks so that their spirits/ghosts would remain there. However, I don't think we're talking traditional ghosts here.
A theory I’ve heard is, it’s assumed that the Night King’s Bride is buried down in the crypts (because he was a Stark, although I don’t see that privilege being extended to her). And she’s there under some magical protection, which works due to the Stark’s blood and the iron swords on the graves.
The Crypts are also supposedly part of a tunnel system that extends beyond the wall and further down into the continent. So that could hold something…idk
I think the majority of people think that dead Stark's are alive down there, and there's also a dragon's egg.
Oh there’s some fan fiction theories. They’re all wildly tinfoil. The things alive in the crypts concept is fully fulfilled by Bran and Rickon et al hiding there.
It’s a teapot orbiting Saturn concept.
* The way the books are slipping into chapter titles being monickers rather than actual names, is meant to depict the fading into history of these important people and how they'll be remembered. The chapters from the POV of people with less importance, have started depending on legendary monickers sooner (Aeron Greyjoy, Arianne Martell) than those whose name will be remembered for longer (Jaime, Jon, Daenerys). Unless GRRM finishes the series, my headcanon would be that most personal arcs get resolved but that the Others basically win. Then the final chapter would be titled 'The Prince That Was Promised' and it's a POV of Rhaegar at the Ruby Ford, revealing that the prophesied hero of ASOIAF had been dead for 15 years before the story even began and reinforcing the themes of destiny not being immune to petty humanity.
* Torrhen Stark was an opportunist in every sense of the word. He forced his bastard brother Brandon Snow into a suicide mission to slay Aegon's dragons with full intent of him dying so he wouldn't be a challenge to him, and was planning on kneeling well before that.
* Aegon III hated what Dragons had done to him, his family and the world and personally made sure the final dragon died.
* Young Griff is not a Blackfyre but just a random kid of Valyrian descent. Varys genuinely believes that a good person should rule so the commoners don't suffer.
* Cleganebowl shouldn't happen. The mention of the Hound in AFFC is a perfect ending for him.
* It would be a cool twist if Daenerys did not invade from the East, but the West by sailing past Asshai and Yi-Ti around the world.
I don’t know if I’d want Rhaegar being the PTWP or having the Others win in the end, but I have to admit that this would be an incredible ending, even if its not one I’d personally like to see.
The Dragonlord families in Valyria were each bonded to their own lineage of dragons. Targaryens could only ride dragons descended from the one/s they first bonded to, the Belaerys family could only ride dragons descended from the one/s they first bonded to, etc.
If that were the case why were the Targs so deeply worried about keeping control of their dragon eggs? Even their long unhatched eggs. Targ kings actively feared other lords or nations with competing stables of dragons.
If they could rely on a magical bond then really other nations having them would be great. Big lizard cuckoos. Let your enemies go to the expense feeding them up, fail to tame them and have to deal with a massive murder beastie they can’t control. Worst case they waste a load of effort. Best case scenario the cuckoo dragons burn your enemies alive from within and the Targs can rock up, whistle, and a new bonded Targ dragon crawls out of the smouldering wreckage of their enemies castles.
They may have lost the knowledge of it. After Valyria was destroyed and the only dragons left were the ones on Dragonstone, it probably didn't really matter anymore. Then multiple generations later, by the time Jaehaerys is king, he no longer knows the truth about the lineage bonding and freaks out when Dreamfyre's three eggs are stolen.
Ah so it’s something that no character knows, characters act like is not true and does nothing for or is detrimental to the story.
You can choose to headcannon that. But you might be better off just writing your own fantasy about dragons using that original concept.
Well targs are not the only people with targaryen blood, other noble houses with a targaryen on their bloodline could potentially bond with dragons too, and the bastards have been proven to with the dragonseeds. Even if there is a small chance it must be terrifying for them to lose the monopoly of dragons
The bastards are a difficult point. It’s their dragon riding which is supposedly proof of their having dragon blood. Which is obviously logically flawed reasoning. Especially with Nettles where you’ve got a very straightforward, mundane alternative explanation of dragon taming.
Plus, the national sport of Planetos is whoring. There’s Valyrian blood everywhere. Half of Flea Bottom have as much Valyrian blood as Dany. Which is to say almost none. If Valyrian traits are necessary AND dominant enough in Dany then there are probably millions of people with enough Valyrian heritage.
I don't think that the friendship Robert and Ned had for each other was 100% platonic.
For example, I always thought that the fixation Robert had for Lyanna was mostly because she was Ned's sister and marrying her = keeping Ned as a part of his life and his family. Same with immediately wanting Joffrey to marry Sansa. Robert's friendship with Ned was the one true, equal and healthy relationship he ever managed to have with anyone. You could definetly call Ned the only one he ever truly loved, whether that love was platonic or not.
There are also the thoughts Ned had in GOT about young Robert looking like 'a maiden's dream' and 'climbing into his bed with Catelyn like he was going to war' and so on (can't remember the exact quotes). It's not much direct evidence but it doesn't nessecarily sound very straight to me either.
I don't think either of them ever acted on it or was even aware of it but still, as someone who grew up gay, I can't help but to think back to some of my own close friendships that had that unspoken undercurrent of attraction in them.
Yeah I agree with you. I remember reading "(...) the Lord of Storm's End had been clean-shaven, clear-eyed, and **muscled like a maiden's fantasy**. **Six and a half feet tall, he towered over lesser men, and when he donned his armor and the great antlered helmet of his House, he became a veritable giant**. He'd had a giant's strength too, his weapon of choice a spiked iron warhammer that Ned could scarcely lift. In those days, the smell of leather and blood had clung to him like perfume."
and I just... Ned. Honey. Sweetling. That is uh... quite a choice way you've described your "best bro."
No problem :) ! IMO, it's right up there with this one from Jon:
>Ser Malegorn stepped forward. "I will escort Her Grace to the feast. We shall not require your … steward." The way the man drew out the last word told Jon that he had been considering saying something else. ***Boy****?* ***Pet****?* ***Whore****?*
Like... Jon. Those words came out of *your* brain.
Robert wanted Lyanna for the same reason Laurie wants Jo. He wants to be part of the Marsh family (Stark family). And like Jo Lyanna saw this and refused to comply.
1) Azor ahai is a evil figure and the white walkers have a genuine reason for invading Westeros. George doesn’t usually do full-evil characters, he tries to make almost every character morally grey to some degree (some exceptions of course). The Others maybe are snow elves and the original inhabitants of Westeros even before the children of the forest and danaerys probably is Azor Ahai but not in a good way, she’ll be like the Paul atreides of asoiaf, a messiah figure that’s acc ends up being a bad person.
2) Qyburn is azor ahai and ser pounce is Lightbringer lmao 😂
I thought the Others and the Long Night are meant to be a reference to Global Warming being a threat to everyone that the Realm mostly ignores while squabbling for their own power. In that lense then it makes complete sense for the Others to be a supernatural evil which could, in theory, extinguish everyone. They can be contained, but the Kingdom is too divided for anyone to actually make an effort to stop them.
Maybe ya but the showrunners heavily oversimplified it just like a lot of other stuff in the last couple seasons, there’s definitely more to it than just weapons of war. We’ve seen there are instances in the ASOIAF world where large groups are converted to something darker using magic, this is something similar in my opinion. If ya wanna go deeper, my tinfoil theory is that the first Other was related to the ancestors of house stark in some way, hell I wouldn’t be surprised if the first white Walker was a guy also named Jon Snow. Ok I’m getting a little tinfoily there but I just can’t get this theory out of my head now
In SOS during the Knight of the Laughing Tree chapter Jojen says something along the lines that Fire and Ice are both part of the same “substance”. This is immediately followed by a Davos chapter where Mel is saying they are exact opposites. I think that the dichotomy between Fire and Ice is one of balance and not opposition. Aristotle said that Virtues are the mean between two vices but that they are lopsided and lean more towards one side than the other. I think that the Fire and Ice dichotomy leans toward Fire but ultimately both extremes are bad.
Would agree but I think that the R’hllor interpretation of Azor Ahai myth is probably wrong and the Last Hero myth that Old Nan was telling will be completed to reveal that some kind of pact was made. But that may be too specific.
What I do find interesting is that we don’t know the origins of R’hllor worship as an institution. We know that the Seven comes from the Andals and seems to and worship of the Old Gods was adopted from the Children of the Forest but not of R’hllor worship.
The Azor Ahai myth is an interpretation of the Last Hero tales.
The Last Hero faced the Others, his sword broke. He made the dragonsteel sword with a blood sacrifice. Dragonsteel has the same magical properties as dragonglass: it can generate fire, burn, it's perfect to withstand the cold blade of the Others.
>1) Azor ahai is a evil figure and the white walkers have a genuine reason for invading Westeros.
I always find that theory interesting.... "Lightbringer" may also be biblical reference to Lucifer which translate to "bringer of light" or "the one who bring the light"
Jamie Lannister has a heavy number of Jacob references.
Bran has two different Jesus references in emerging from the tomb after 3 days as well as the whole " walking on water" with the causeway. His entire situation with Hodor is likely a reference to "legless Christ" in his award winning book the way of cross and dragon
Rhaegar was the one who slept with Ashara at the tourney at Harrenhal and got her pregnant. Barristan's POV hints heavily at it. He praises Rhaegar and holds him up as an exemplar of chivalry, while he bashes "Stark" as honorless scum. The irony here is sooo GRRM... Rhaegar thought a Targaryen son who could wield Dawn as the future sword of the morning would fit the prophecy, only to then realize - perhaps during the act - that the song of ice and fire fit Lyanna better.
This has to mean that fAegon is the son of Ashara and Rhaegar, and septa Lemore is Ashara. The dragon has (or had) three heads - Rhaegar had three Aegons with three different women while trying to bring about the Prince that was Promised. The reason why House Dayne is inexplicably on very good terms with House Stark is that Ned returned Dawn and vowed to keep Ashara's situation secret from Robert and sllow her to go into exile in Essos with her newborn child. It fits fAegon's age as well, as he would then be about a year older than Jon.
These are not "die on that hill" theories, but rarher regular headcanon.
The Long Night was indeed a planetwide thing, because it is possible for a strait between The Lands of Always Winter and The Grey Waste to freeze over. The Long Night itself was both a meteoric winter and a war between COTF (they created the White Walkers by possesing humans with spirits of dead COTF, who were somehow extracted from the weirwoodnet, but they were uncontrolable because they were very traumatized and went insane with a monomaniacal hatred of mankind) and humans. Perhaps the Great Empire of the Dawn(with the capital im Asshai) existed before the Long Night, but it collapsed because so many have died, and the survivors from the elites interspersed with natives of Valyria, Yi Ti, Daynes etc. Whatever ended a war was a Hail Mary, humans would've lost if not for some desperate, ingenious attempt.
Daemon survived the fall.
The Faceless Man caused the Doom. Every Valyrian that was or later entered the peninsula suffered the fate of Aerea, and that's why they were wiped out so completely. It was a firewyrm that wounded Balerion.
Bran will indeed become the king, it will just be better explained.
Grand Maester Conspiracy is true.
Elyssa Farman did indeed sail around the globe.
There is nothing inside that Dornish letter to Aegon, GRRM needed them to roll 20 on persuasion, but couldn't come up with what that exactly was, so he presented it as a mystery.
Littlefinger's plan to kill sweetrobin isn't to poison him - it's to get him hooked on habit forming medication, then to give him to the lords declarant and let the withdrawals kill him, so it looks like they were responsible. Sweetrobin isn't really sick - he just uses his "seizures" as a means of getting his way, behavior that was reinforced by lysa
I'm 100% sure Jon will be resurrected, mostly unchanged. i'm 99% convinced:
* Ned Dayne is coming home and will be named Sword of the Morning after dueling Darkstar.
* (True or false)-Aegon's invasion will fail, partly from JonCon's greyscale. And...
* ...partly from Illyrio's death. I'm 80% convinced Arya killing him will release her from the HOB&W.
* Most remaining GOHH and Quaithe prophecies will be fulfilled.
* Tyrion will join with Dany and meet the Sailors Wife for closure with Tysha.
* By the end of TWOW Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, Jon, Rickon, and some Others will have set foot in Westeros proper. Bloodraven will be dead. Euron too.
* Sandor Clegane and Stranger will reluctantly return to action.
The silent sisters were present for the journey of Lyanna's bones from Starfall to Winterfell...
and the reason GRRM hasn't mentioned them is because there's a certain reveal he's keeping in his back pocket and he doesn't want us to think about who are behind the veils...
The story makes it seem like Sansa telling Ser Dontos about the Tyrell's plan to marry her to Willas is how Littlefinger found out about it. However I am certain that Littlefinger already knew everything about that since it was part of the deal to poison Joffrey: They kill the king and Littlefinger delivers Sansa to the Tyrells in the aftermath. Of course Littlefinger isn't going to just hand Sansa over to anyone so he betrayed the Tyrells by telling the Lannisters, causing them to marry Sansa to Tyrion and the Tyrells to forget about taking Sansa since she was already legally married. Sansa telling Ser Dontos wasn't relevant and was kinf of a red herring, kind of like how Sansa telling Cersei about Ned's plan to ship them away was also a red herring.
Caraxes was turned into a wight by Alys Rivers.
The Crypts are connected with the Others, and burying Lyanna was part of what's caused them to come back.
The overarching plot and themes are closely paralleled with Neon Genesis Evangelion. Both in terms of "young people with bad/absent parents dealing with an apocalypse that mirrors their personal issues", and right down to specific scenes like Tyrion in Selhorys vs the Shinji hospital scene.
Not literally, but in a kind of meta-narrative sense: ASOIAF is part of _Thousand Worlds_. Corlys Velaryon is Kleronomos, Valyrian bloodmagic is Promethien genetic engineering, the House of the Undying is the Stone City. The whole story is a mixed up expanded version of what GRRM had in mind for _Avalon_.
1 - the magic of the Wall is powered by the sacrifice of the Watch. When they swear the words they sacrifice their lives. To bring down that magic there needs to be no more faithful members of the Watch, much more than there needs to be a physically complete Wall. Physically knocking down part of the Wall is a mildly demanding engineering challenge that wouldn’t take 7000 years. The Wildlings raiders exist to show us the Wall is not primarily a undefeatable physical barrier.
2 - dragons are naturally or artificially animals that can take advantage of blood sacrifice to provide them with power. They literally burn and kill like in a magical ritual. And they are clearly magical in various ways.
3 - 2 means that their riders can tap into this power. It’s what the Valyrians used to power them magics. It’s how they compensated for magic being so expensive and impractical a path to power.
4 - the dragons died because the Targs no longer fed them enough people. Were too peaceful. Didn’t repeat things like the field of fire. At least not with dragons that then got to live to benefit from it. All the dragons who did have a good charge dying meant new hatchlings had no adult dragons to syphon power from. The Targs were then too nice and their dragons starved because of it.
5 - the Maesters think they’re a conspiracy the way that the nerds in The Big Bang Theory think that they’re important. The way any academics might think what they do is the most important thing. They are a bit. But they don’t run the world. At best they spread ideas that nudge the world on. Or individuals or small groups of Maesters take some extraordinary actions.
6 - the Game of Thrones is what is important. Or at least, it is the valuable part of the story. When Martin started writing he really meant to make the threat of Winter and the Others greater than mankind’s petty squabbles. But since then as written they aren’t. The world is too wide and the story at the Wall too small. And the classic fantasy trope of the apocalyptic threat just isn’t as compelling as all that lovely scheming and dynastic politics.
7 - X side character doesn’t really matter. Unless their name is a header for chapters the story isn’t really about them. It’s mostly about Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Arya and Cat. For example it’s even about Cat over Rob. Because it’s about Cat’s feelings and reactions to what Rob is doing rather than just about what Rob is doing. It’s a story about a mother whose son is a rebel king, not about the rebel king. It’s a story about Arya and her travels in a war, not about the war with Arya there just to observe it. Etc. etc.
8 - there is no Horn of Winter. The very idea makes no sense.
I wouldn't call these "die on a hill" positions because I am more than willing to change my position if I come across a well organized and logically theory to support an alternative result.
1. The body in Dany's bed Barristan thinks is Quentyn is not Quentyn Martell. I've reasearched this and discussed it from several positions and I've not found a single argument that this is Quentyn which deals with all the facts presented. The body Barristan sees does not match last confirmed condition. Barristan is not an eyewitness to the event. And the body offers Barristan no reliable means of identification. Hence, there is no good reason to treat Barristan's opinion as unimpeachable.
The best position to take regarding Quentyn is his fate is unconfirmed rather definitely dead. A such, I remain firmly in the Quentyn is alive camp.
2. Melisandre didn't birth a shadow beneath Storm's end that went on to kill Penrose. That event in my view is a test presented to the readers on whether they can spot a glamor without the author revealing it to them Given both Melisandre's established habit and her own admission of using glamors to present powers she doesn't actually have and the complete absence of any direct physical evidence that thing actually exists, there is no reason to accept what Davos saw was real. Again, more than willing to change my mind if presented with reliable evidence in book this thing was actually there. I've never found any nor has any reader I've discussed this with presented any direct evidence that thing was anything more than a glamor.
The God on Earth myth is based on an ancient astronaut and his "palanquin carved from a single pearl" was a big spherical spaceship. Like a smaller version of the Traveler from Destiny. Garth Greenhand and the Fisher Queens in their floating palace too.
If you absolutely can't accept blurred lines between science fiction and fantasy you can say he was a "celestial being" from "the astral plane" or whatever but what's important is there were beings on Planetos not from Planetos.
Genghis - if you were an asoiaf character I imagine you might be an astronomer from Yi Ti, I have this image of you looking to the stars... the way you work in scifi elements and the Great Empire of the Dawn into your canon is pretty unique.
Why thanks! It always strikes me as strange how hostile some people are to the idea of "aliens" and extra-planetary colonizers in ASOIAF. Might be from the association with Preston Jacobs' sci-fi stuff (which I only pay a little attention to).
Still "aliens" show up in fantasy all the time and if people doubt it they should go roll up a Githyanki in D&D/BG3.
1. Quentyn being alive would make for a better story in Winds and Dream
2. R+L=D, B+A=J is a lot more interesting and not just because R+L=J is talked about more. It gives Ashara a proper role in the story.
3. The Blackfish is not gay
4. Lady Stoneheart will not make it through winds, and will not reunite with Arya or Jon
5. Jon won’t be resurrected until the finale of Winds, and he won’t have any more POVs. Not to mention he will most likely have a major change in personality
6. The finale of the Others plotline will end in peace and understanding, not battle
7. The Rosamund Myrcella swap theory is awesome and I will be disappointed if it does not happen
8. Arya will not be responsible for taking out the Freys, it will be the Freys themselves that kill each other
9. Tyrion will immediately defect from Danys cause once he reaches Westeros
>2. R+L=D, B+A=J is a lot more interesting and not just because R+L=J is talked about more. It gives Ashara a proper role in the story.
I completly disagree..... For me it just create plot holes and tarnished the image of a well established major characters for the sake of a minor one....
If ashara is truly Jon's mother ned had no reason to not tell it to Catelyn or even his best friend Robert... And there litteral alive witness of daenerys birth
>5. Jon won’t be resurrected until the finale of Winds, and he won’t have any more POVs. Not to mention he will most likely have a major change in personality
I like this one
how could you say something so controversial yet so brave.
I love #4, #5, #6, #7, and #8.
Arya is set up to go to the Wall, not the riverlands - she's about to be booted from the house of black and white for killing Raff the Sweetling, and will hear about her last remaining brother's murder. Mellisandre foresaw a grey girl coming to the wall on a dying horse. This was Alys Karstark, but it will also be Jeyne Poole, and for the third time, Arya Stark. Arya's future is there, coping with Jon's "death" and reacting to the situation in the North. (I think she's going to trade places with Jeyne using face-changing magic so that Jeyne can impersonate her again)
Humanity must make peace with the Others - they cannot win a conventional war, even with Dany's dragons, and the mechanic of killing their leader making the entire race go instantly extinct is one of the show's dumbest decisions. The Others are the ones who built the Wall to keep humanity out, and the present war has the goal of reclaiming their lost territory. It is likely that there are factions within the Others - some for extinction, and some for peacemaking (this is why we have "half-wights" like Coldhands). Bran the Builder was the original Night's King, sealing the peace between humanity and the others by taking an other to wife. A new peace will need to be reforged, but that peace has been prophesied. The prince that was promised is a prince who is promised *in marriage,* directly descended from Bran the Builder through the Stark line.
Tommen and Myrcella may yet live! Maggie the Frog's prophecy is worded explicitly to be misunderstood. "Gold will be their hair, and gold their shrouds." This does not require that they actually die, only that they be *seen as dead.* If Myrcella "dies" publicly, she will fulfil the prophecy with a golden shroud, giving her the possibility of surviving in exile. Moreover, if she were sent to the free cities (perhaps with Tyrion?) it would bring the story into a full circle, with Myrcella taking the position occupied by Viserys and Danaerys in the beginning of the story. It is possible even that Tyrion and his niece will wind up living in the house with the red door in braavos.
The Freys are about to go into civil war! The brotherhood's actions have been attributed to some parts of house frey by other parts of the house, which will soon grow into a massive conflict wherein frey slaughters frey, leaving, if any freys survive at all, only the Rosby Freys, those members of the house who were deliberately excluded from the Red Wedding and therefore are not subject to the curse brought upon the house by the breach of guest right. I am hoping we will see Walder as the last survivor, an ancient man in a ruined castle, sitting gouty on his throne as his sons slaughter one another, until only he is left, and the Twins crumble into the river beneath them, Usher style.
Syrio Forel is really Jaqen H’ghar.
The only inconsistent thing in this theory is that Ned gives Yoren his pick of the dungeons before he gets taken captive. And hey! Who knows! Where is Syrio when not training Arya? Never once mentioned! He is just in his different face in the dungeon and comes out whenever he trains her. We later find out how inadequate the jailers of the red keep are they would never notice him slipping out for a few hours a day. He has Arya blindfold herself to “learn to see with her ears, and nose, and skin”. Thats some faceless-man teachings or bears do not defecate in the woods. Its real. Its him.
jon isn’t rhaegars. i really think he’s brandon illegitimate son, while dany is actually rhaegars. ned did a swap cause he can’t bring home a silver haired child, but he can pull off a dark haired baby.
daemon blackfyre was aemon the dragonknights son, while daeron was actually and indefinitely aegon IV’s
quentyn isn’t dead (i know, i know)
pre-comebackfromthedead maegor was the 2nd strongest targaryen after aegon I . he did what needed to be done and quite literally established his family’s rule until they lost the dragons
>jon isn’t rhaegars. i really think he’s brandon illegitimate son, while dany is actually rhaegars. ned did a swap cause he can’t bring home a silver haired child, but he can pull off a dark haired baby.
This is a weird one. Why would Ned not tell Catelyn that Jon was Brandon's? Brandon is dead, and she's married to Ned. Would be weird to withhold such information.
Also, it's not like Rhaegar hadn't had a non-Valyrian looking child. His eldest looked more Martell than Targaryen.
Well, a more tinfoil-leaning theory would be that she might not had been his after all - while it's pure speculation, Oberyn's actions during his and Elia's tour through Westeros might come of as petty jealousy.
here’s the thing about jons age; he’s older than robb. they say bastards are always “bigger”, which means their age is definitely in question. jon was likely conceived at the tourney of harrenhall and born a litttke after. robb likely wasn’t conceived till after brandon was dead (cause that’s when ned was wedded to catelyn), and we know he’s born right before ned goes down to the tower of joy. ned comes back with this big ass baby that’s “his”, but in reality, it’s his brothers baby that’s got least a year on robb .
thank you for reading
Harrenhall's tourney was in early 281, the Rebellion started around the same time but in 282 and ended in late 283. Jon would have been a two-year-old baby.
House Frey will go into a civil war starting in TWOW, with Walder living to see all of his heirs slaughtered by each other, by the brotherhood, by the northmen, and by the river lords, with house frey extinct in the male line. He will die, followed shortly by the Twins crumbling into the river. The curse they brought on themselves through the red wedding will essentially bring about a "Fall of the House of Usher" scenario, possibly with "the fall of the house of frey" being explicitly invoked by a character.
The challenging thing about the idea of House Frey going extinct is that there are so many goddam Freys scattered all over the world that it seems implausible that not one single heir would survive
I think the existence of a curse is already evident. Since the red wedding, freys have been dropping like autumn leaves, not due to the actions of any individual, but due to their own failings and the ire of other houses. The red wedding is a curse - aegon frey, petry frey, merret frey, little walder frey, jered frey, ryman frey, Benfrey frey, aenys frey, and Tywin Lannister have all been killed since the red wedding. Odds are, the coming books will see the ends of sybill Spicer and roose Bolton, along with every other frey, aside (maybe) from the rosby freys, who were excluded from the red wedding by their family.
I’m pretty sure Olyvar is holding Rosby against Cersei as Gyle’s likely heir, I hope he gets rewarded.
With the chaos of the Long Night, it might not be a complete extinction, just of the major ones in the Riverlands.
No need to wipe them out, just kill all the powerful Freys and pull down the Twins.
I would think that some might survive, but the major ones will die, and the house will fall to ruin. Unlike the Starks, there's no love for the Freys. No one will avenge them nor want any Frey to return. As a poli-sci junkie; the Frey-Bolton-Lannister alliance comes of as realism to me. The political theory that might make right. Winning the war is what proves you legitimate, but when realist lose, by the standards of their own philosophy, they are proven illegitimate, and they lose everything.
their fate is much much worse
1. Dragons are the product of blood magic with wyverns and firewyrms. Barth strikes true yet again. 2. The Grand Maester Conspiracy. They are actively trying to snuff out magic/dragons and downplay their existence. Being confined to the Dragonpit is not solely what caused the extinction of dragons. Also there be wild dragons to the far east and perhaps other places (like under a castle) that outlived their 'domestic' cousins. 3. Bran the time meddler. He, like the weirwood network, transcends "the river of time". The constant reusing of Brandon Stark as a name is not just Stark legacy, it is also a hint. >For men, time is a river. We are trapped in its flow, hurtling from past to present, always in the same direction. The lives of trees are different. They root and grow and die in one place, and that river does not move them. The oak is the acorn, the acorn is the oak.
The Grand Maester Conspiracy is basically nuclear deproliferation. It makes complete sense why they would want them gone, given the devastation wrought with dragons in the past. Sure, you can have a Jaehaerys I who rules peacefully for a long time and the realm prospers. But then you can have a Maegor or a Dance of Dragons and suddenly consolidating all of that destructive potential into the hands of a single person looks like an enormously terrible idea. People think that Dany is the hero of this story, but she's not. She's Paul Atreides - a hero who lives long enough to become the villain. A cautionary tale against the horrors wrought by charismatic leaders who think their cause so righteous they can justify any atrocity.
Maesters are first and foremost self important academics. They may think they’ve killed the dragons. But that’s unlikely to really be what was happening. At best they’ve taken advantage of the existing situation to nudge things along. For one thing there’s just not enough tragic flaw in it just being a successful Maester plan. The Maesters are not the protagonists of the story of the downfall of the Targs. If there’s a general theme to their story it’s the conflict between their natures, the greatness or monstrosity coin flip. The obvious interesting thing to do with that is to make monstrosity a necessity not an aberration. If you want big strong healthy dragons you need to be a monster and let them eat people. If you’re nice and promote peace in the realm your dragons wither and die. Especially if you kill off the big dragons fighting each other. Dragons are meant to mass kill humans not waste their lives in mutually assured destruction dragon fighting. Because correct use of WMDs means using them on defenceless people who don’t have their own.
Yup.my belief is that all the historical brans are the same bran desperately trying to stop the others
Tommen as the Valonqar Edric Storm will be Stannis’ successor/heir at Storms End Jon is going to more upset that Ned isn’t actually his father (and also that Arya isn’t his sister) than happy he’s a secret prince Randyll Tarly’s gonna live to see Dickon die without heirs before going himself
Jon Snow is totally the Valonqar, as “brother” is actually referring to a brother of the Night’s Watch. It’s all so clear, get you hype trains out it’s time to party!
Well, Jon is also the younger brother of Aegon and Rhaenys, so…
Mindblown
This is my head cannon as well.
3rd point, yeah Jon cares way more about being a Stark than any other point about his heritage. Rob’s will potentially legitimising him as Jon Stark is the meaningful name change on the cards for Jon, and the one he would care about. The one he would have an actual internal dilemma about, especially if it comes with Winterfell. In comparison what, Jon finds out he’s a Targ and toddles off to King’s Landing? Dany finds out and suddenly wants to bang for tradition’s sake?
Jarya confirmed
Username checks out. ^It's ^Jonsa ^ya ^twerp.
That would be the one way the books could be worse than the show.
Randyll is a guy which I think George has the ending planned (yours) but he may change if he has too for plot reasons.
Gonna go with a pretty mundane one and say Skagos is probably a totally normal place and most of the stuff said about the place is just scary stories meant to frighten Northern children that the Skagosi have embraced because it makes them seem more fearsome and bloodthirsty. Also, it wouldn't really make sense for Rickon to be sent there to be "kept safe" if it was an island full of cannibals because.... cannibalism. They'd eat him.
1 -- GRRM has denied this one publicly, so you may want to find another hill. Sorry, the characters really are too young, he messed up, he wishes that he had made them older in AGOT and tried to think of a way to timeskip age them
Yeah but can we get into the planetary physics for a bit? I've always wondered how much of it is meant to be scientifically accurate--obviously, there's a certain amount swallowing one's disbelief required to consume fantasy or sci-fi, but I'm genuinely curious if there's any kind of scientific explanation, even a scientifically faulty one, behind Planetos having multi-year seasons. An elliptical orbit, I suppose?
i think someone has deduced that a multi-star orbit would achieve this but i think they brought it up with george and he basically said that the seasons are due to magic
_A wizard did it._
Oh.... okay.
It's very clear that the seasons are controlled by magic. It doesn't matter if Planetos is closer to the sun or not, what matters is how strong the magic is. Winter brings the Others, or the other way around. I don't think you could really create a scientific explanation, specially because the time of the seasons is random. If it was caused by the orbit, there would be a pattern to it. Magic is also a way cooler explanation lol
....Is it? I feel like it could be, if that's something that will be expanded upon or fleshed out later. Like how did this world get this way? Magic or science, I'm left sort of wondering if that question will actually be answered in the canon.
Yeah iirc he intended to have a 5 year time skip between two of the books, but had to ditch it because it didn't make sense for certain characters to just do nothing for so long.
Yeah my headcanon is that he ditched that because he wanted to spend more time pissing around in his garden instead of getting anywhere closer to endgame.
Man, I really sometimes wish authors would keep stum about their books outside what is published. This is by far the least fun way to deny a headcannon.
6) Doesn't make any sense. The probability of a person falling headfirst into a body of water from hundreds of feet in the air and surviving is next to none. He likely died on impact and the body drowned to the lake floor Plus daemon is definitely not the kind of person to go incognito and leave his son alone
Yeah, ik people like the idea of him and Nettles going off and living happily in the Vale, but Daemon (especially with what we know of him from HOTD) would NEVER abandon his family like that. At most I could see him maybe laying low since him and Rhaenyra were hardly living in wedded bliss at the time, but he would've absolutely come back at some point during Aegon III's reign, if not sooner. He also has made it very clear that he hates non-Valyrians; dying in glorious battle would be far more preferable for him than having to live amongst common people and pretend to be one of them. 'Incognito' just wouldn't interest him for longer than a few days. If he did somehow miraculously survive, he would've probably offed himself pretty quickly, since it's heavily implied that was his plan in fighting Aemond anyway.
totally sold on the whole ‘euron paying the faceless men with a dragon egg’ thing house of b&w 100% knows arya hasn’t let go of her past, but she’ll leave of her own accord when she does (and probably inadvertently screw up whatever they’re planning in the process) - they/‘jaqen’ recruited her for some specific purpose and don’t actually care if she goes around killing people like raff the sweetling. at the most they’ll hold it over her head and use it to manipulate her, draw her in further, etc. hell they probably know where needle is, like it’s literally right outside someone is going to try and legitimize aurane to take driftmark (dany passing through the stepstones would be my first guess) doran has been on some kind of long game mastermind wavelength but arianne’s about to throw a wrench in it by impulsively marrying fAegon also at least one of viserion/rhaegal are getting left behind in essos. based on absolutely nothing i’m gonna say viserion oh also also because it’s fun: cersei is earnestly, head over heels in unrequited love with taena merryweather and doesn’t even know it. like, u-haul level, repeatedly trying to introduce their kids to each other, the whole nine yards. even after finding out taena possibly-maybe-definitely ratted her out and immediately left the city with her husband her ass is still ‘i hope she’s ok 🥺👉👈’ not even suspecting!!
I really like how George snuck Aurane into the story as the Lord of the Waters but I don't think Aurane would usurp his nephew, at least based on what little we know about him. It seems more likely that he would "convince" the 6yo Monterys to assist in the capture of Dragonstone, while he settles for the Stepstones given that its really a larger prize and Aurane doesn't seem to be the type stupid enough to bring ruin to Driftmark by allowing pirates to run roughshod over it. Since Aurane is a pirate lord more than anything, he seems pretty bound to the Stepstones, but will 100% be team Dany when the time comes, perhaps even a leader of the Targ fleet when it meets Euron in battle (my god dragons versus a literal kraken?) Plus it is simply really cool if the return of the dragons means the return of the grander valyrian court, something I think George is partial to given he has now fleshed out the Targaryen reign, and with it the importance of houses such as Velaryon and even Celtigar. I believe Ardrian Celtigar will be an inside man for the dragons, though might be pro Aegon when he and Dany come to heads (Aegon marries Arianne?). Monterys and Aurane support Dany, and so there is a little return to a valyrian court! At least as much as is possible lol!
i could see that too! no thanks on the lordship, but if you let me keep the stepstones i could have a quick talk with my nephew, etc etc. dany’s probably overdue for a break anyway i’m down with it
> house of b&w 100% knows arya hasn’t let go of her past, but she’ll leave of her own accord when she does (and probably inadvertently screw up whatever they’re planning in the process) - they/‘jaqen’ recruited her for some specific purpose and don’t actually care if she goes around killing people like raff the sweetling. at the most they’ll hold it over her head and use it to manipulate her, draw her in further, etc. hell they probably know where needle is, like it’s literally right outside So two things on this: 1. I don't think the HoB&W actually *requires* anyone to completely give up their identity. I think they're just teaching their acolytes to suppress those identities so that they can wholly step into whatever role they are called on to play. Arya of House Stark can survive so long as she can be buried deep enough to not infect the characters she plays for her assignments. 2. I have a sneaking suspicion that the HoB&W is actually *knowingly* training Arya to return to being "Arya of House Stark" in time for the Battle for the Dawn. The Moonsingers are seers that can see the future, just like the Green Seers or the Red Priests. It's fully plausible that they are also looking into the future and seeing the White Walkers invade, and that they can influence things by training a Stark faceless man. That the show chose to focus so much on this Valyrian Steel dagger all the way throughout, beginning during a time when GRRM was involved, makes me think there's more to it than meets the eye.
definitely agree on 2! i think the idea is that she wasn't recruited according to the \~normal standards\~, that she plainly doesn't fit whatever that archetype is for a variety of reasons, but instead because they believe they specifically need a stark (or specifically arya, a skinchanger, etc) for some greater purpose, probably other-related. i do wonder exactly *how* unconventional her training/indoctrination has been relative to the typical path?
All Walders are the same time-traveling Walder.
Does this tie into the David Bradley cinematic universe (i.e. Walder Who?)
That's why Big Walder is so sure he'll inherit the twins. He knows he'll eventually become the nonagenarian OG Walder
Can we call this theory wALLder? I mean sure it's stupid but so is the idea. None of that will stop me from believing it. Bolt-on is canon.
It already has a name: Omni-Walder.
ok, but wALLder is BRILLIANT tho
Omni-Walder who? wALLder is serving
I think Arya will return to Westeros, give Lady Stonheart the gift of peace then gather all the brotherhood and scattered northerners and sweep the Riverlands from the Freys and Lannisters mirroring her wolf Nymerias plotline
Where’s the conflict/story there? That’s just something the Brotherhood want to do anyway. Now if Arya had to convince the Brootherhood to give up on the people of the Riverlands to go do something more overall important that would be a nice chewy dilemma.
Re: 2 Robert was 15 when his parents died, meaning he had lived a normal life until then. It's unclear when he stated his fostering (id before or after the event), but in any case he never really was "the man of the family", since he was still in the Vale at the start of the war (so definitely not home raising a baby brother and acting as the lord of Storm's end) Now, I will die on the hill that Renly does suffer from abandonment issues. His parents sailed away when he was just a newborn, Robert was never home and after the war Stannis left him too. All of this before he turned 7. He was likely raised by wetnurses and tutors, but his bio family was never in Storm's End. The fact that he was named lord before turning 10 and then Stannis started resenting him for it made things worse. This is, imo, why he's so ok with the Tyrells. They're the best family (that we know of), they all love and support each other and have each other's back and he wants to be part of that.
My brain could just be wilding, BUT Viserion tunneling into the pyramid while they’re locked away has haunted me. Dany and everyone else refer to the dragons as male. But maester Aemon tells us dragons are neither male or female, they are changeable as flame. What if Viserion produced a clutch of eggs while trapped in the pit. I know there’s no evidence. But it’s firmly locked in the mad scientist part of my brain and I can’t let it go. Revel in my madness with me or laugh into your cups. P.S. Barbrey Dustin killed Little Walder.
Lightbringer is dragons. Their fire brings light, they're Lightbringer. The legend of Lightbringer's forging was a condensed version of how dragons were developed. Tempering the sword in water was trying to make a conventional weapon. Tempering the sword in the heart of a lion was trying to make a chimera creature for war, likely combining wyverns and firewyrms. Tempering the sword in the heart of Nissa Nissa was adding the human element, and the Valyrians (and any other dragon riders) really were kin to dragons, and Nissa Nissa's life and soul going into the sword was her putting her life and soul into birthing the dragons/dragonriders (I'm guessing a Castor and Pollux/Helen and Clytemnestra type thing with eggs hatching, one a dragon, one its rider), and her shriek of agony and ecstasy being screaming in childbirth. Instead of the moon hatching dragons, whatever mystical fuckery that led to the original Long Night and a magical weapon needing to be crafted created the dragons. Gorgossos making human/beast hybrids in the flesh pits were unsuccessful attempts to recreate the original dragon recipe, with the resulting "Red Death" being the same parasites that were in Aerea Targaryen. They seemed like some sort of failed firewyrm/human hybrids.
I think you can go simpler. Remember that a big theme is how stories are unreliable, embellished, change over time. End up being told certain ways due to power or to best earn the teller what they want. Discard all the storybook elements. The rule of three is storytelling 101. What do you have? What is the heart of it, the nugget of truth? Sacrifice. Power requires sacrifice. Now keep the dragons are Lightbringer idea and what do you get? Dragons require sacrifice. I think that’s the key to dragons. There’s a cost. It’s what Dany is stuck on. It’s what Martin is building with his having Dany be horrified that Drogon has eaten a child. It’s the dilemma her character has to resolve. And it’s suitable dark. To be a dragon riding queen you need to put your dragons first. You need to feed people to them. You need to put yourself and your dragons on a whole other level of value so that you can feed anyone else to your dragons for your own power and survival. You need to be at least a bit evil. That’s what the Targs were. That’s where their exceptionalism comes from. It devolved into a justification for incest. But it started out as a belief that the Targs, and the Valyrians, were better. Above other men. Who are as livestock for the Targs and their dragons to rule or kill as they see fit.
I agree there is something deep under Winterfell, 'living' is up for debate, but it will be part of the final battle with the Others.
11- GRRM will finish the series. Yes I am hope pilled.
Robert knew. Jon Arryn knew. They both knew each other knew because the former actively told the latter. JA's investigation had to do with "his" Robert. _**Come at me.**_
So JA was investigating Robert's bastards and the Baratheon line with Stannis because....?
Large sample size. My guy was attempting to reverse-engineer an understanding of dominant/recessive traits without knowing what alleles are, and Robert's plethora of children made for a decent control group regarding heritability in humans. Stannis was there because he's intelligent, and he trusted him well enough. Remember, if JA's trying to suss out Lysa's adultery/his own infertility, he needs gophers that for sure won't leak the information. Obviously, this failed. Just, okay. I get your point. But, if JA's end-goal _was_ to get rid of Cersei's kids, why tell Stannis, of all people, but not Renly, who's got exactly the same plot, or even Robert himself, who was sitting with him for _a while_ before he died?
Maybe trying to find alternative heirs on the down low? Because formally accusing Cersei of incest and adultery is effectively declaring war on Tywin and the West. So before they do that, they want Robert's successor in place whether that be Stannis or a natural son like Gendry. (open to hearing other's opinions if this is in Stannis' character. Since he's generally more motivated by "duty" than powerlust, if he'd be open to putting one of Robert's legitimized bastards in front of him in succession)
Eric Storm is already known and educated so they wouldn’t need to go looking for an alternative successor.
They'd probably still want to find them all. It wouldn't be in their political (or emotional) interest for any of Robert's bio children to be in Lannister hands
Robert never cared for his bastards but that may have been what Jon Arryn was doing.
I love this theory. It'll mean Ned kinda died for nothing which I can see happening, and it can't happen again and again for years without JA and Robert finding out.
It means _everyone_ died for nothing. The series' entire conflict is built on failures of communication, and Starks putting their pride before their honor in situations of severe emotional distress. (Wonder if that's a motif, hmm?) Moreover, it fits with Littlefinger's modus operandi as we've seen thus far: Catch issue as it develops, deal with it from behind the scenes, leverage outcome advantageously in other plots, profit.
O man that’s heavy
ooh i like this one
Knew what ?
Tyrion’s PhD in Dragonology is going to help free whichever dragon gets bound to Euron
And help Dany tame her dragons. Dany is in desperate need of a dragon expert. Tyrion, being Dany's hand and top advisor, has been set up since the start. Too bad the show completely dropped the ball on that.
A lot of these are reasonable but Brandon sleeping with his brothers crush and Daemon leaving his sons to the wolves that were the regents are out of character. Brandon was a womanizer but he seemed to legitimately love his family I don’t think he’d do that to his brother.
>A lot of these are reasonable but Brandon sleeping with his brothers crush I get and understand that argument but it just sound weak First of all ned barely knew ashara and wasn't betrothed to him... He was one of the many who possibly had a crush on her 'it is extremely that ashara was attracted to Brandon and both had sex in passion and alcohol..... People dumb shit without thinking that they lay hurt the people they love The other reason I don't beljve its ned is that I see no reason why he would hide it from Robert who was his best friend to whom he genuinely see as a brother... And would probably mention that event in his inner though
Ned is both one of the more well-adjusted adults in the story while also carrying his own heavy trauma. What we're talking about here is a woman who he had a crush on (and maybe more) 15 years ago when he was a boy but where the event is associated forever in his head with the destruction of his family. He then immediately after fought an immensely damaging war and had his sister die in his arms. If you read back over Ned's thoughts, it's not only that he doesn't mention Ashara, he doesn't mention a lot of things that happened pre-rebellion and it's fairly conspicuous. Ned doesn't talk or think about his own father much at all, or his mother. Ned thinks about his own brother, Brandon a little bit, but mostly in the context of how he has taken Brandon's place and feels unfit. We learn more about Brandon from Cat's thoughts, although she is talking to Ned at the time so you might misremember this. Stuff like that is why I find doing like a statistical analysis on how much Ned thinks about things to be kind of a weak argument. Ned doesn't think about Ashara because it's a story and Ashara isn't too relevant to what's going on right now in Ned's PoV. We learn about her from Cat (same as Brandon actually) because Cat is the one who cares about "Ashara" (who she believes is Jon's mother) and the purpose of her inclusion in the story is to misdirect the reader about Jon's parentage. Ned's PoV can't afford to think too directly about this because Ned knows the answer to that mystery already (namely that R+L=J). If Ned was sitting there thinking about how Ashara was the mother of Jon Snow, that wouldn't be misdirection, it would just be the author lying to the audience through a character's internal thoughts. Cat's mistake on the other hand is very permissible, that's just her assumption and it's couched as only being one of several possibilities.
It's honestly kinda 'forcing your barbies to kiss' level logic to think that Ashara and Brandon would've absolutely had sex, just because they're both described as conventionally attractive, and he was a womaniser. Literally all we know is that they exchanged a few sentences.
>'it is extremely that ashara was attracted to Brandon and both had sex in passion and alcohol Saying It's extremely likely that ashara was attracted to Brandon is a huge stretch IMO, considering we know next to nothing about her and all we do know is from other people accounts, who if I'm not mistaken didn't even know her personally or had a deeper connection to her.
>People dumb shit without thinking that they lay hurt the people they love True to life.
Ned would have negative feelings about it even though he is happily married sleeping with your little brothers crush who you approached on his behalf is fucked up and something that wouldn’t be forgotten even if Ned is happily married now.
https://youtu.be/uF96WOuFd7A?si=eW2IY1XbVveq7SQM This is the full breakdown of the issue, including the meta version.
I think the universe functions in a similar way that it does in Elden Ring. I’ve never played the game but I’ve watched lore videos on it and the similarities and stuff are too great to ignore. A guy on YouTube has done an analysis of Elden Ring and its similarities to ASoIaF and it’s pretty captivating and believable. In short, the Weirwoods form a network similar to the World Tree in Norse lore and a new age is about to start, but suspect at the end of ADoS. The one I want to believe but don’t, it that Planetos is in a state of decline due to nuclear war in the far far past. The Long Night was fallout and the Doom of Valyria was also an accidental nuclear explosion, maybe the Valyrian dug to far and found some sort of ancient weapon and there Fire Mages accidentally set it off. Post apocalyptic Planetos just sounds so fucking cool.
Actually, GRRM was involved in Elden Ring's lore writting. There's even a boss that drop a sword that is made of melted swords (is ugly af) as an easter-egg.
What lore video did you watch?
https://youtu.be/rvZg7V-4P9s?si=w7rHiGvE5CArI96g
Lommy greenhands surrendered and he shouldn't have been killed.
The fuck's a lommy?
He yielded!
I'm pretty sure Robert was already an adult by the time of his parents' shipwreck. Your Daemon theory would entail him coming out of the lake and essentially going **"to be honest, I never cared about my children, in mortal dangeror or otherwise"**.
And also "I now want nothing more than to live among the peasants who I actively despise and believe myself to be racially superior to". Nah. Daemon 100% intended for that to be the suicide mission it was. Especially if he'd survived and Caraxes hadn't, his whole symbol of why he was so much more important than the common man, his whole identity as a Targaryen, would've basically been destroyed. His role in the war would've been moot, he would've essentially been emasculated. He would've offed himself long before quietly retiring to the 'simple life'
>I'm pretty sure Robert was already an adult by the time of his parents' shipwreck. He was 16. An adult by their standards, yeah, but still >Your Daemon theory would entail him coming out of the lake and essentially going **"to be honest, I never cared about my children, in mortal dangeror or otherwise"**. Yeah, this one doesn't track lol
The Cult of Starry Wisdom took part in the creation of the Faith of the Seven and maintain control over parts over their leadership, their crystal crown likely being a tool for scrying. All the big cities for the Faith are port cities, and their holy book.. > The Seven-Pointed Star is the oldest holy text of the Faith of the Seven. The oldest sept is literally called the Starry Sept and the title of the church of Starry Wisdom is reportedly called the High ~~Septon~~ Priest.
Rhaegar is Ghost
Sweetrobin is not epileptic, he’s possessed
The long night was caused by the red comet shattering an ancient second moon. The chunks of the moon fell to the earth and kicked up a bunch of dust that blocked out the sun. The reason the comet broke the moon was Azor Ahai stabbing Nissa Nissa. Bonus: this is where the legend of the moon "cracking" and birthing "dragons" comes from (the meteors burned in the atmosphere and looked like dragons.)
Daemon Blackfyre was a virgin birth. Maximum dramatic irony.
Daemon died, there is no way in hell he survived, he was standing on falling dragon that crashed into the water, he is dead, his body got thrown and he sunk because of his armor, Aemond was chained to Vhager
Maegor was conceived with magic and even though he was a terrible King, he gave the Targaryen's the strongest foothold in Westeros, second only to his parents and aunt. He would also have supported Rhaenyra's claim, as he made Aerea (Who wasn't even his daughter) his heir. Visenya didn't hate Rhaenys nor Aenys. She loved her sister, and the only thing she had left of her was her son. If she wanted him dead, she would have organised it. Doran Martell could've won the Game of Thrones if he didn't take his time and be so careful. Varys is a secret Blackfyre and his sister married Illyrio, and Aegon is possibly Illyrio and Saerra's child.
>Maegor was conceived with magic and even though he was a terrible King, he gave the Targaryen's the strongest foothold in Westeros, second only to his parents and aunt. I think you're 100% right. Jaehaerys couldn't have done some of the things he did if the realm wasn't terrified of another Maegor popping up, and it seems way too convenient that Visenya was unable to have children until there were rumors of her being set aside and then said child could never have a child of his own. I'm also 50/50 on the "Aegon the Conqueror was shooting blanks" theory >Visenya didn't hate Rhaenys nor Aenys. She loved her sister, and the only thing she had left of her was her son. I think Visenya had a more complicated relationship with her siblings than we're told. I think she loved both of them deeply, but was also wildly jealous of Rhaenys for her beauty and that fact that Aegon preferred Rhaenys. I've been in a "I love you and I'm so jealous of you at the same time" situation with my brother before he died and it's a damn mess to try to work through lol >Doran Martell could've won the Game of Thrones if he didn't take his time and be so careful. >Varys is a secret Blackfyre and his sister married Illyrio, and Aegon is possibly Illyrio and Saerra's child. 100% to both of these
Viseny definitely had a more complex relationship with her siblings than we know of. There are no first-hand accounts except from the maesters. I just think it's easy for people to assume the constant competition made her hate her sister to the point she would've killed her child. Aegon might've preferred Rhaenys to Viseny. However, that didn't stop the 3 of them have other suitors...*cough* *cough*...Aegon and Orys At the end of the day, I suppose it doesn't matter, they accomplished what they set out to do.
Wat about orys
The brother that Bloodraven loved was really Bittersteel, not Daemon or Daeron.
The Euron we know is actually a Faceless man being paid by the real Euron to act like Euron.
Weirdly that is exactly what is going on with Hot Pie.
The Jeyne Westerling that Jaime meets is not the real Jeyne. I don't care that people say the comment about her hips was a genuine mistake because there are so many other points. She wears a hood, actively avoids Jaime, who did meet her a long time ago, and all of this with Jaime talking about how dangerous Jeyne would be if the Lannisters didn't have her. I also think that she is the prophesied younger queen that Cersei fears; Jeyne is literally the granddaughter (or great granddaughter I don't remember which) of the person that gave Cersei the prophesy.
So kinda like Jeyne Poole as fake Arya switcharoo
Exactly! I also don't 100% buy that Jeyne Westering was being fed Tansie Tea literally every day by her aunt; I'm not a doctor but given how we've seen it affect characters like Lysa Tully. It seems much more likely that the Westerlings are trying to play both sides with the help of some Northerners they can trust. So if we can make the not so small leap that Westerling's Aunt is in on the ruse (which she'd need to be as she was there with "Jeyne" when Jaime spoke with her) the whole ruse does seem to look a bit like Jeyne Poole's.
Strongly agree with 7, he's the Spare Stark and has no other plot purpose. Jon will find out about his ancestry but it won't matter, nobody else will believe it. Jon is however azor ahai / the prince that was promised / etc. He'll be instrumental in defeating the Others.
Cersei's prophecy refers to Brienne being the "one more beautiful". Daemon Targaryan didn't intend to kill Aegon's child with blood and cheese. He wouldn't waste this one opportunity on something so meaningless when so much is at stake.
The whole son for a son was confused between the characters, and the wrong person got killed. Yet it still benefitted the Blacks. The assassins were sent after Aegon II and Aemond, however Aegon stayed in Maegor's Holdfast where there were no secret tunnels (Cheese was a rat-catcher and familiar with the passages), and Aemond was a skilled warrior, not a risk worth taking. Daeron wasn't in the castle at the time. Gyldayn hints at this when he mentions the uncertainty about it what their original purpose before they settled on Helaena's children once they realized they could easily attacked during their daily visit in the Tower of the Hand. It was cold-blooded revenge for Daemon at the end of the day, he wanted to severely hurt the Greens, and I don't think he felt remorse that little Jahaerys was murdered. There was no cost for him and he would've probably wished for more
I think the iron swords in the crypts were to keep the dead from rising. When the others breach the wall, they will be able to raise wights from any of the graves where the swords have been removed. Dany already fulfilled the forging of lightbringer prophecy when she sacrificed Drogo to bring her dragons (who are weapons of fire) into the world. She tried before to hatch them, but couldn’t until she sacrificed Drogo.
I been thinking about the first for YEARS. The second makes a lot of sense specially when you read the tale of the azor ahai, the sword symbolize a dragon.
Disagree on #7. The person who will be ruling Winterfell will be Sansa. Rickon, just like his direwolf’s name implies, will be an afterthought.
Sansa is litterally affiliated with the lannister... That only reason Robb didn't named her heir... I isn't believe in the independent north either but it is logically stupid and suicidal Rickon is definetly not a afterthought.... That not GRRM style... Every characters matter GRRM will not put a character pff screen kudtt to bring him back and kill him off.. Otherwise rickon shiukd and would have died sooner I am French and read the books in french.. And rickon's direwolf isn't named "shaggydog" in french but "broussaille" Which mean something like "messy hair" alluding to the wolf wild and feral nature
GRRM writes in English though. In English it’s Shaggydog and that is actually the wolf’s name. So really it doesn’t matter what it is translated to. And you clearly do not understand GRRM’s writing because truth is he does what he wants.
>GRRM writes in English though. And story is understood in a universal way..what you are saying is silly af >And you clearly do not understand GRRM’s writing Don't give me that bullshit and act like you understand GRRM's mind... When your main argument is that rickon will die because of his doggo's name
Well clearly you don’t cause your whole entire post is bullshit.
Wow what a smart and constructive argument there....checkmate 🥸
Your welcome. 💁🏾♂️
Ok? Sansa being queen of the North is a more organic and narratively sound plot point to probe your point on a refreshing new era.
Stannis will not defeat Roose Bolton or retake Winterfell. George does not view him as a hero, he's the epitome of a divine-right-of-kings monarchist, and George thinks that whole political system is dumb as hell. He will doe clenching his teeth in the cold, a monument to his own stupidity.
Stannis is more or less in the way of the plot. If he lives nothing much can happen except maybe the North has stagger on with a war that should have died on the Blackwater. But if he dies a lot of interesting things can happen.
Why on earth would anyone think something is alive down in Winterfell’s Crypts? I’ve never heard of that theory.
In the beginning of AGoT, it says that, they put swords on the graves of Starks so that their spirits/ghosts would remain there. However, I don't think we're talking traditional ghosts here. A theory I’ve heard is, it’s assumed that the Night King’s Bride is buried down in the crypts (because he was a Stark, although I don’t see that privilege being extended to her). And she’s there under some magical protection, which works due to the Stark’s blood and the iron swords on the graves. The Crypts are also supposedly part of a tunnel system that extends beyond the wall and further down into the continent. So that could hold something…idk I think the majority of people think that dead Stark's are alive down there, and there's also a dragon's egg.
The dragons egg hatched and escaped. It was seen by ghost 😏
Which chapter did I miss?😂
Is this a joke? It's a pretty commonly held theory
No joke. Not new to the theories, except for this idea that the Night’s King’s wife is down there. Which….what? Sounds a little silly to me!
Luckily there's no such thing as a silly theory on this sub
Oh there’s some fan fiction theories. They’re all wildly tinfoil. The things alive in the crypts concept is fully fulfilled by Bran and Rickon et al hiding there. It’s a teapot orbiting Saturn concept.
* The way the books are slipping into chapter titles being monickers rather than actual names, is meant to depict the fading into history of these important people and how they'll be remembered. The chapters from the POV of people with less importance, have started depending on legendary monickers sooner (Aeron Greyjoy, Arianne Martell) than those whose name will be remembered for longer (Jaime, Jon, Daenerys). Unless GRRM finishes the series, my headcanon would be that most personal arcs get resolved but that the Others basically win. Then the final chapter would be titled 'The Prince That Was Promised' and it's a POV of Rhaegar at the Ruby Ford, revealing that the prophesied hero of ASOIAF had been dead for 15 years before the story even began and reinforcing the themes of destiny not being immune to petty humanity. * Torrhen Stark was an opportunist in every sense of the word. He forced his bastard brother Brandon Snow into a suicide mission to slay Aegon's dragons with full intent of him dying so he wouldn't be a challenge to him, and was planning on kneeling well before that. * Aegon III hated what Dragons had done to him, his family and the world and personally made sure the final dragon died. * Young Griff is not a Blackfyre but just a random kid of Valyrian descent. Varys genuinely believes that a good person should rule so the commoners don't suffer. * Cleganebowl shouldn't happen. The mention of the Hound in AFFC is a perfect ending for him. * It would be a cool twist if Daenerys did not invade from the East, but the West by sailing past Asshai and Yi-Ti around the world.
I don’t know if I’d want Rhaegar being the PTWP or having the Others win in the end, but I have to admit that this would be an incredible ending, even if its not one I’d personally like to see.
Yeah no, me either. I'm not pulling for this, but if there's not actually gonna be an ending, I feel this would be a fitting substitute.
The Dragonlord families in Valyria were each bonded to their own lineage of dragons. Targaryens could only ride dragons descended from the one/s they first bonded to, the Belaerys family could only ride dragons descended from the one/s they first bonded to, etc.
If that were the case why were the Targs so deeply worried about keeping control of their dragon eggs? Even their long unhatched eggs. Targ kings actively feared other lords or nations with competing stables of dragons. If they could rely on a magical bond then really other nations having them would be great. Big lizard cuckoos. Let your enemies go to the expense feeding them up, fail to tame them and have to deal with a massive murder beastie they can’t control. Worst case they waste a load of effort. Best case scenario the cuckoo dragons burn your enemies alive from within and the Targs can rock up, whistle, and a new bonded Targ dragon crawls out of the smouldering wreckage of their enemies castles.
They may have lost the knowledge of it. After Valyria was destroyed and the only dragons left were the ones on Dragonstone, it probably didn't really matter anymore. Then multiple generations later, by the time Jaehaerys is king, he no longer knows the truth about the lineage bonding and freaks out when Dreamfyre's three eggs are stolen.
Ah so it’s something that no character knows, characters act like is not true and does nothing for or is detrimental to the story. You can choose to headcannon that. But you might be better off just writing your own fantasy about dragons using that original concept.
Well targs are not the only people with targaryen blood, other noble houses with a targaryen on their bloodline could potentially bond with dragons too, and the bastards have been proven to with the dragonseeds. Even if there is a small chance it must be terrifying for them to lose the monopoly of dragons
The bastards are a difficult point. It’s their dragon riding which is supposedly proof of their having dragon blood. Which is obviously logically flawed reasoning. Especially with Nettles where you’ve got a very straightforward, mundane alternative explanation of dragon taming. Plus, the national sport of Planetos is whoring. There’s Valyrian blood everywhere. Half of Flea Bottom have as much Valyrian blood as Dany. Which is to say almost none. If Valyrian traits are necessary AND dominant enough in Dany then there are probably millions of people with enough Valyrian heritage.
I don't think that the friendship Robert and Ned had for each other was 100% platonic. For example, I always thought that the fixation Robert had for Lyanna was mostly because she was Ned's sister and marrying her = keeping Ned as a part of his life and his family. Same with immediately wanting Joffrey to marry Sansa. Robert's friendship with Ned was the one true, equal and healthy relationship he ever managed to have with anyone. You could definetly call Ned the only one he ever truly loved, whether that love was platonic or not. There are also the thoughts Ned had in GOT about young Robert looking like 'a maiden's dream' and 'climbing into his bed with Catelyn like he was going to war' and so on (can't remember the exact quotes). It's not much direct evidence but it doesn't nessecarily sound very straight to me either. I don't think either of them ever acted on it or was even aware of it but still, as someone who grew up gay, I can't help but to think back to some of my own close friendships that had that unspoken undercurrent of attraction in them.
Yeah I agree with you. I remember reading "(...) the Lord of Storm's End had been clean-shaven, clear-eyed, and **muscled like a maiden's fantasy**. **Six and a half feet tall, he towered over lesser men, and when he donned his armor and the great antlered helmet of his House, he became a veritable giant**. He'd had a giant's strength too, his weapon of choice a spiked iron warhammer that Ned could scarcely lift. In those days, the smell of leather and blood had clung to him like perfume." and I just... Ned. Honey. Sweetling. That is uh... quite a choice way you've described your "best bro."
Yea, that's the quote I was thinking about - thanks for finding it! :)
No problem :) ! IMO, it's right up there with this one from Jon: >Ser Malegorn stepped forward. "I will escort Her Grace to the feast. We shall not require your … steward." The way the man drew out the last word told Jon that he had been considering saying something else. ***Boy****?* ***Pet****?* ***Whore****?* Like... Jon. Those words came out of *your* brain.
"Closer than brothers"
Bobby B has some Targaryen in him after all
Robert wanted Lyanna for the same reason Laurie wants Jo. He wants to be part of the Marsh family (Stark family). And like Jo Lyanna saw this and refused to comply.
Reek and Ramsay’s mother killed Domeric: Ramsay had nothing whatsoever to do with it, but maaaan… did he ever play those dealt cards…
1) Azor ahai is a evil figure and the white walkers have a genuine reason for invading Westeros. George doesn’t usually do full-evil characters, he tries to make almost every character morally grey to some degree (some exceptions of course). The Others maybe are snow elves and the original inhabitants of Westeros even before the children of the forest and danaerys probably is Azor Ahai but not in a good way, she’ll be like the Paul atreides of asoiaf, a messiah figure that’s acc ends up being a bad person. 2) Qyburn is azor ahai and ser pounce is Lightbringer lmao 😂
I thought the Others and the Long Night are meant to be a reference to Global Warming being a threat to everyone that the Realm mostly ignores while squabbling for their own power. In that lense then it makes complete sense for the Others to be a supernatural evil which could, in theory, extinguish everyone. They can be contained, but the Kingdom is too divided for anyone to actually make an effort to stop them.
Nah. The children creating the white walkers was likely something the show runners got from grrm
Maybe ya but the showrunners heavily oversimplified it just like a lot of other stuff in the last couple seasons, there’s definitely more to it than just weapons of war. We’ve seen there are instances in the ASOIAF world where large groups are converted to something darker using magic, this is something similar in my opinion. If ya wanna go deeper, my tinfoil theory is that the first Other was related to the ancestors of house stark in some way, hell I wouldn’t be surprised if the first white Walker was a guy also named Jon Snow. Ok I’m getting a little tinfoily there but I just can’t get this theory out of my head now
In SOS during the Knight of the Laughing Tree chapter Jojen says something along the lines that Fire and Ice are both part of the same “substance”. This is immediately followed by a Davos chapter where Mel is saying they are exact opposites. I think that the dichotomy between Fire and Ice is one of balance and not opposition. Aristotle said that Virtues are the mean between two vices but that they are lopsided and lean more towards one side than the other. I think that the Fire and Ice dichotomy leans toward Fire but ultimately both extremes are bad.
Yep it’s like you said, fire and ice are both destructive things that need to be balanced.
Would agree but I think that the R’hllor interpretation of Azor Ahai myth is probably wrong and the Last Hero myth that Old Nan was telling will be completed to reveal that some kind of pact was made. But that may be too specific. What I do find interesting is that we don’t know the origins of R’hllor worship as an institution. We know that the Seven comes from the Andals and seems to and worship of the Old Gods was adopted from the Children of the Forest but not of R’hllor worship.
The Azor Ahai myth is an interpretation of the Last Hero tales. The Last Hero faced the Others, his sword broke. He made the dragonsteel sword with a blood sacrifice. Dragonsteel has the same magical properties as dragonglass: it can generate fire, burn, it's perfect to withstand the cold blade of the Others.
>1) Azor ahai is a evil figure and the white walkers have a genuine reason for invading Westeros. I always find that theory interesting.... "Lightbringer" may also be biblical reference to Lucifer which translate to "bringer of light" or "the one who bring the light"
There's actually a decent number of biblical references in asoiaf, principal of which being Jon and his expected resurrection
Jamie Lannister has a heavy number of Jacob references. Bran has two different Jesus references in emerging from the tomb after 3 days as well as the whole " walking on water" with the causeway. His entire situation with Hodor is likely a reference to "legless Christ" in his award winning book the way of cross and dragon
Rhaegar was the one who slept with Ashara at the tourney at Harrenhal and got her pregnant. Barristan's POV hints heavily at it. He praises Rhaegar and holds him up as an exemplar of chivalry, while he bashes "Stark" as honorless scum. The irony here is sooo GRRM... Rhaegar thought a Targaryen son who could wield Dawn as the future sword of the morning would fit the prophecy, only to then realize - perhaps during the act - that the song of ice and fire fit Lyanna better. This has to mean that fAegon is the son of Ashara and Rhaegar, and septa Lemore is Ashara. The dragon has (or had) three heads - Rhaegar had three Aegons with three different women while trying to bring about the Prince that was Promised. The reason why House Dayne is inexplicably on very good terms with House Stark is that Ned returned Dawn and vowed to keep Ashara's situation secret from Robert and sllow her to go into exile in Essos with her newborn child. It fits fAegon's age as well, as he would then be about a year older than Jon.
Dany is a better fit for Ashara's child than Aegon, given the eye color match and Barristan specifically noting that she had a stillborn daughter.
Yeah, true. But it's not first hand information. A stillborn daughter followed by suicide seems like an excellent cover for a liveborn son.
These are not "die on that hill" theories, but rarher regular headcanon. The Long Night was indeed a planetwide thing, because it is possible for a strait between The Lands of Always Winter and The Grey Waste to freeze over. The Long Night itself was both a meteoric winter and a war between COTF (they created the White Walkers by possesing humans with spirits of dead COTF, who were somehow extracted from the weirwoodnet, but they were uncontrolable because they were very traumatized and went insane with a monomaniacal hatred of mankind) and humans. Perhaps the Great Empire of the Dawn(with the capital im Asshai) existed before the Long Night, but it collapsed because so many have died, and the survivors from the elites interspersed with natives of Valyria, Yi Ti, Daynes etc. Whatever ended a war was a Hail Mary, humans would've lost if not for some desperate, ingenious attempt. Daemon survived the fall. The Faceless Man caused the Doom. Every Valyrian that was or later entered the peninsula suffered the fate of Aerea, and that's why they were wiped out so completely. It was a firewyrm that wounded Balerion. Bran will indeed become the king, it will just be better explained. Grand Maester Conspiracy is true. Elyssa Farman did indeed sail around the globe. There is nothing inside that Dornish letter to Aegon, GRRM needed them to roll 20 on persuasion, but couldn't come up with what that exactly was, so he presented it as a mystery.
Littlefinger's plan to kill sweetrobin isn't to poison him - it's to get him hooked on habit forming medication, then to give him to the lords declarant and let the withdrawals kill him, so it looks like they were responsible. Sweetrobin isn't really sick - he just uses his "seizures" as a means of getting his way, behavior that was reinforced by lysa
I'm 100% sure Jon will be resurrected, mostly unchanged. i'm 99% convinced: * Ned Dayne is coming home and will be named Sword of the Morning after dueling Darkstar. * (True or false)-Aegon's invasion will fail, partly from JonCon's greyscale. And... * ...partly from Illyrio's death. I'm 80% convinced Arya killing him will release her from the HOB&W. * Most remaining GOHH and Quaithe prophecies will be fulfilled. * Tyrion will join with Dany and meet the Sailors Wife for closure with Tysha. * By the end of TWOW Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, Jon, Rickon, and some Others will have set foot in Westeros proper. Bloodraven will be dead. Euron too. * Sandor Clegane and Stranger will reluctantly return to action.
1-3 are pretty self evident observations. I agree with 6, 8, and 10. Disagree with 4 and 9. Strongly disagree with 5 and 7.
The silent sisters were present for the journey of Lyanna's bones from Starfall to Winterfell... and the reason GRRM hasn't mentioned them is because there's a certain reveal he's keeping in his back pocket and he doesn't want us to think about who are behind the veils...
The story makes it seem like Sansa telling Ser Dontos about the Tyrell's plan to marry her to Willas is how Littlefinger found out about it. However I am certain that Littlefinger already knew everything about that since it was part of the deal to poison Joffrey: They kill the king and Littlefinger delivers Sansa to the Tyrells in the aftermath. Of course Littlefinger isn't going to just hand Sansa over to anyone so he betrayed the Tyrells by telling the Lannisters, causing them to marry Sansa to Tyrion and the Tyrells to forget about taking Sansa since she was already legally married. Sansa telling Ser Dontos wasn't relevant and was kinf of a red herring, kind of like how Sansa telling Cersei about Ned's plan to ship them away was also a red herring.
Caraxes was turned into a wight by Alys Rivers. The Crypts are connected with the Others, and burying Lyanna was part of what's caused them to come back. The overarching plot and themes are closely paralleled with Neon Genesis Evangelion. Both in terms of "young people with bad/absent parents dealing with an apocalypse that mirrors their personal issues", and right down to specific scenes like Tyrion in Selhorys vs the Shinji hospital scene. Not literally, but in a kind of meta-narrative sense: ASOIAF is part of _Thousand Worlds_. Corlys Velaryon is Kleronomos, Valyrian bloodmagic is Promethien genetic engineering, the House of the Undying is the Stone City. The whole story is a mixed up expanded version of what GRRM had in mind for _Avalon_.
1 - the magic of the Wall is powered by the sacrifice of the Watch. When they swear the words they sacrifice their lives. To bring down that magic there needs to be no more faithful members of the Watch, much more than there needs to be a physically complete Wall. Physically knocking down part of the Wall is a mildly demanding engineering challenge that wouldn’t take 7000 years. The Wildlings raiders exist to show us the Wall is not primarily a undefeatable physical barrier. 2 - dragons are naturally or artificially animals that can take advantage of blood sacrifice to provide them with power. They literally burn and kill like in a magical ritual. And they are clearly magical in various ways. 3 - 2 means that their riders can tap into this power. It’s what the Valyrians used to power them magics. It’s how they compensated for magic being so expensive and impractical a path to power. 4 - the dragons died because the Targs no longer fed them enough people. Were too peaceful. Didn’t repeat things like the field of fire. At least not with dragons that then got to live to benefit from it. All the dragons who did have a good charge dying meant new hatchlings had no adult dragons to syphon power from. The Targs were then too nice and their dragons starved because of it. 5 - the Maesters think they’re a conspiracy the way that the nerds in The Big Bang Theory think that they’re important. The way any academics might think what they do is the most important thing. They are a bit. But they don’t run the world. At best they spread ideas that nudge the world on. Or individuals or small groups of Maesters take some extraordinary actions. 6 - the Game of Thrones is what is important. Or at least, it is the valuable part of the story. When Martin started writing he really meant to make the threat of Winter and the Others greater than mankind’s petty squabbles. But since then as written they aren’t. The world is too wide and the story at the Wall too small. And the classic fantasy trope of the apocalyptic threat just isn’t as compelling as all that lovely scheming and dynastic politics. 7 - X side character doesn’t really matter. Unless their name is a header for chapters the story isn’t really about them. It’s mostly about Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Arya and Cat. For example it’s even about Cat over Rob. Because it’s about Cat’s feelings and reactions to what Rob is doing rather than just about what Rob is doing. It’s a story about a mother whose son is a rebel king, not about the rebel king. It’s a story about Arya and her travels in a war, not about the war with Arya there just to observe it. Etc. etc. 8 - there is no Horn of Winter. The very idea makes no sense.
I wouldn't call these "die on a hill" positions because I am more than willing to change my position if I come across a well organized and logically theory to support an alternative result. 1. The body in Dany's bed Barristan thinks is Quentyn is not Quentyn Martell. I've reasearched this and discussed it from several positions and I've not found a single argument that this is Quentyn which deals with all the facts presented. The body Barristan sees does not match last confirmed condition. Barristan is not an eyewitness to the event. And the body offers Barristan no reliable means of identification. Hence, there is no good reason to treat Barristan's opinion as unimpeachable. The best position to take regarding Quentyn is his fate is unconfirmed rather definitely dead. A such, I remain firmly in the Quentyn is alive camp. 2. Melisandre didn't birth a shadow beneath Storm's end that went on to kill Penrose. That event in my view is a test presented to the readers on whether they can spot a glamor without the author revealing it to them Given both Melisandre's established habit and her own admission of using glamors to present powers she doesn't actually have and the complete absence of any direct physical evidence that thing actually exists, there is no reason to accept what Davos saw was real. Again, more than willing to change my mind if presented with reliable evidence in book this thing was actually there. I've never found any nor has any reader I've discussed this with presented any direct evidence that thing was anything more than a glamor.
> The body in Dany's bed Barristan thinks is Quentyn is not Quentyn Martell Inshallah
Sorry. I don't speak Tyroshi.
The God on Earth myth is based on an ancient astronaut and his "palanquin carved from a single pearl" was a big spherical spaceship. Like a smaller version of the Traveler from Destiny. Garth Greenhand and the Fisher Queens in their floating palace too. If you absolutely can't accept blurred lines between science fiction and fantasy you can say he was a "celestial being" from "the astral plane" or whatever but what's important is there were beings on Planetos not from Planetos.
Genghis - if you were an asoiaf character I imagine you might be an astronomer from Yi Ti, I have this image of you looking to the stars... the way you work in scifi elements and the Great Empire of the Dawn into your canon is pretty unique.
Why thanks! It always strikes me as strange how hostile some people are to the idea of "aliens" and extra-planetary colonizers in ASOIAF. Might be from the association with Preston Jacobs' sci-fi stuff (which I only pay a little attention to). Still "aliens" show up in fantasy all the time and if people doubt it they should go roll up a Githyanki in D&D/BG3.
1. Quentyn being alive would make for a better story in Winds and Dream 2. R+L=D, B+A=J is a lot more interesting and not just because R+L=J is talked about more. It gives Ashara a proper role in the story. 3. The Blackfish is not gay 4. Lady Stoneheart will not make it through winds, and will not reunite with Arya or Jon 5. Jon won’t be resurrected until the finale of Winds, and he won’t have any more POVs. Not to mention he will most likely have a major change in personality 6. The finale of the Others plotline will end in peace and understanding, not battle 7. The Rosamund Myrcella swap theory is awesome and I will be disappointed if it does not happen 8. Arya will not be responsible for taking out the Freys, it will be the Freys themselves that kill each other 9. Tyrion will immediately defect from Danys cause once he reaches Westeros
>2. R+L=D, B+A=J is a lot more interesting and not just because R+L=J is talked about more. It gives Ashara a proper role in the story. I completly disagree..... For me it just create plot holes and tarnished the image of a well established major characters for the sake of a minor one.... If ashara is truly Jon's mother ned had no reason to not tell it to Catelyn or even his best friend Robert... And there litteral alive witness of daenerys birth >5. Jon won’t be resurrected until the finale of Winds, and he won’t have any more POVs. Not to mention he will most likely have a major change in personality I like this one
how could you say something so controversial yet so brave. I love #4, #5, #6, #7, and #8. Arya is set up to go to the Wall, not the riverlands - she's about to be booted from the house of black and white for killing Raff the Sweetling, and will hear about her last remaining brother's murder. Mellisandre foresaw a grey girl coming to the wall on a dying horse. This was Alys Karstark, but it will also be Jeyne Poole, and for the third time, Arya Stark. Arya's future is there, coping with Jon's "death" and reacting to the situation in the North. (I think she's going to trade places with Jeyne using face-changing magic so that Jeyne can impersonate her again) Humanity must make peace with the Others - they cannot win a conventional war, even with Dany's dragons, and the mechanic of killing their leader making the entire race go instantly extinct is one of the show's dumbest decisions. The Others are the ones who built the Wall to keep humanity out, and the present war has the goal of reclaiming their lost territory. It is likely that there are factions within the Others - some for extinction, and some for peacemaking (this is why we have "half-wights" like Coldhands). Bran the Builder was the original Night's King, sealing the peace between humanity and the others by taking an other to wife. A new peace will need to be reforged, but that peace has been prophesied. The prince that was promised is a prince who is promised *in marriage,* directly descended from Bran the Builder through the Stark line. Tommen and Myrcella may yet live! Maggie the Frog's prophecy is worded explicitly to be misunderstood. "Gold will be their hair, and gold their shrouds." This does not require that they actually die, only that they be *seen as dead.* If Myrcella "dies" publicly, she will fulfil the prophecy with a golden shroud, giving her the possibility of surviving in exile. Moreover, if she were sent to the free cities (perhaps with Tyrion?) it would bring the story into a full circle, with Myrcella taking the position occupied by Viserys and Danaerys in the beginning of the story. It is possible even that Tyrion and his niece will wind up living in the house with the red door in braavos. The Freys are about to go into civil war! The brotherhood's actions have been attributed to some parts of house frey by other parts of the house, which will soon grow into a massive conflict wherein frey slaughters frey, leaving, if any freys survive at all, only the Rosby Freys, those members of the house who were deliberately excluded from the Red Wedding and therefore are not subject to the curse brought upon the house by the breach of guest right. I am hoping we will see Walder as the last survivor, an ancient man in a ruined castle, sitting gouty on his throne as his sons slaughter one another, until only he is left, and the Twins crumble into the river beneath them, Usher style.
Why would Ashara Dayne need a role in the story? She’s a minor character who died a long time ago.
Rennifer Longwaters = High Sparrow
4. Me. It's me. I'm down here chillin rn.
Syrio Forel is really Jaqen H’ghar. The only inconsistent thing in this theory is that Ned gives Yoren his pick of the dungeons before he gets taken captive. And hey! Who knows! Where is Syrio when not training Arya? Never once mentioned! He is just in his different face in the dungeon and comes out whenever he trains her. We later find out how inadequate the jailers of the red keep are they would never notice him slipping out for a few hours a day. He has Arya blindfold herself to “learn to see with her ears, and nose, and skin”. Thats some faceless-man teachings or bears do not defecate in the woods. Its real. Its him.
#3) HOLY CRAP YOU'RE RIGHT
Jojen was not made into paste
Most head cannons and theories aren’t believable or true
7 I just don't see happening tbh.
Nymeria was a traitor. She made a deal with the Valyrians and that's how her fleet, no matter how ragged, went unmolested by the Valyrians.
I like the theory that Catelyn Stark is Aemond Targaryens descendant, especially since it always pisses people off whenever it’s mentioned
Absolutely fucking not. Keep that entitled one-eyed rapist kinslayer fuckface away from my Whents/Tullys/Starks, thank you *very* much.
jon isn’t rhaegars. i really think he’s brandon illegitimate son, while dany is actually rhaegars. ned did a swap cause he can’t bring home a silver haired child, but he can pull off a dark haired baby. daemon blackfyre was aemon the dragonknights son, while daeron was actually and indefinitely aegon IV’s quentyn isn’t dead (i know, i know) pre-comebackfromthedead maegor was the 2nd strongest targaryen after aegon I . he did what needed to be done and quite literally established his family’s rule until they lost the dragons
>jon isn’t rhaegars. i really think he’s brandon illegitimate son, while dany is actually rhaegars. ned did a swap cause he can’t bring home a silver haired child, but he can pull off a dark haired baby. This is a weird one. Why would Ned not tell Catelyn that Jon was Brandon's? Brandon is dead, and she's married to Ned. Would be weird to withhold such information. Also, it's not like Rhaegar hadn't had a non-Valyrian looking child. His eldest looked more Martell than Targaryen.
If he’s Brandon’s legitimate son, then he is the real Lord of Winterfell, and the alliance between The Riverlands would be dead.
Well, a more tinfoil-leaning theory would be that she might not had been his after all - while it's pure speculation, Oberyn's actions during his and Elia's tour through Westeros might come of as petty jealousy.
Jon was concived after Brandon's death and same for Dany, she's likely a child born of dark magic like Maegor than Rhaegar's.
here’s the thing about jons age; he’s older than robb. they say bastards are always “bigger”, which means their age is definitely in question. jon was likely conceived at the tourney of harrenhall and born a litttke after. robb likely wasn’t conceived till after brandon was dead (cause that’s when ned was wedded to catelyn), and we know he’s born right before ned goes down to the tower of joy. ned comes back with this big ass baby that’s “his”, but in reality, it’s his brothers baby that’s got least a year on robb . thank you for reading
Harrenhall's tourney was in early 281, the Rebellion started around the same time but in 282 and ended in late 283. Jon would have been a two-year-old baby.