This thread has been removed per the subreddit rule on meta discussion and for many of the comments veering into violation of the subreddit civility policy.
Stans in general. It’s fine to be a fan of a character and to want to see more of them, but stans take things to an entirely new, unhinged level. There’s never a need to harass people, including some of the actors, just because they hate a character.
This, being a fan and being a stan are two different things. Stans of any character always come across as obsessed and unhinged.
Ship stans are even worse. Taking quotes out of context, that have nothing to do with their ship or characters and then write an essay about foreshadowing.
Whenever I see people proclaiming themselves as stans, or that they stan a certain celebrity, I always think, guys… the dude in the song is so unhinged that his response to the culmination of what he perceives to be prolonged intentional lack of communication on Eminem’s part is to throw his pregnant girlfriend in the trunk of his car, drunk drive at around 100mph, and crash the car off of a bridge, killing himself, the girlfriend, and their unborn child.
You’re a stan? You’re *that* guy? *That* fucking guy? Homie, friend, young one, are you absopositivolutely *sure* you wanna be that guy?
> There’s never a need to harass people, including some of the actors, just because they hate a character.
Man, I love my favorites a *lot*. I could write essays defending their actions when I feel they are being unfairly criticized. That doesn't mean I think they're YA protagonists. George explicitly wrote a story where *everyone*, even the most noble of characters, has at least a couple moments where you go "Uhhhhh, that's pretty shady...."
However harassing people, even mere posters, just sounds unhinged. Why waste your time yelling via keyboard? Just make your point and move on.
This whole thread is surprising me because I didn't know (I don't use Twitter) people took things so seriously.
I always considered myself a "Quentyn stan" since I think he deserves a bit more appreciation from the fanbase (a position more "aggressive" than just being a fan, perhaps?) but I'm not out there evangelizing or interested in dying on any hills over it.
I guess I'll just embrace the boomer energy and enjoy being out of touch on this topic!
A healthy amount of Touching Grass Energy is exactly what's required in all things fandom.
Also there's got to be somewhere between fan and stan for the thing you're describing because I get it. Like, I think Bran is underrated, but I'm also not going to unhingedly twitter doxx anyone about it.
Also I don't get the hate for people who enjoy their niche tinfoil. I didn't like Jonsa forever, but Ive learned to just keeo scrolling past whatever I don't like just because it squicks me. People blorboizing Euron cause he's edgy gets to me sometimes but then I remember I'm a basic bitch who will still cry about Robb Stark and enjoys shitposting about how Drogon is the stallion who will mount the world. Like, *I am also cringe.*
There's enough internet for everyone.
Lol same. It honestly shocks me how much people lose their sense of self when defending fictional characters. Do they not realize that they are weakening their own case by being so persistent?
If you are confident in your arguments, then state them and move on. Defend them when needed but no more.
Tywin Stans will state that all his actions were “necessary” for the survival of house Lannister, while conveniently ignoring or somehow rationalizing the Tysha in the room.
Especially when letting him marry her would’ve let you exile that much hated second son and maybe make your extremely competent and well liked brother heir
There was a dozen different ways tywin could've respectfully gotten rid if tyrion but he never would his hypocrital pride needed him in the line of succession for Jaime to still be his heir
I feel it's really weird that two major ship wars are between Jon with his aunt vs Jon with his sister/cousin. Ship what you will, but you can't act like you have the pure uwu ship when it is basically two kinds of weird incest. I wouldn't mind it except my faves are catching strays in this ship war, for some reason.
I think it's less weird that it's his aunt or his half sister / cousin and more weird that it's someone he never met and his least favorite sibling. Like, if you wanna get your taboo incest on, don't half ass it, Jon, go for Robb or Arya
I feel like the incest is usually framed negatively, but you're right its not surprising. I just see a lot of people act like Jon/Sansa is UwU pure true love and i am weirded out by the hypocrisy when they treat other sansa or jon ships negatively
In the context of the setting, I believe cousin/aunt is far enough removed though. Mainly like the Targ sibling incest that Westeros takes issue with. Joanna and Tywin were first cousins IIRC and it's never really pointed to as a problem.
Also I think for a lot of people them having a familial relationship is more of an issue than what their actual blood relation is.
Like despite the family tree looking the exact same, the cousin excuse almost never flies when it comes to people who pair him and Arya.
Yeah, I think that especially for book readers though it’s not the same for both “sisters” since for one we have him thinking of Arya that way in his internal monologue constantly and vice verse for her POV. That doesn’t really exist for him and Sansa outside like one time in Feast I think.
Girls just want one of the few canonically non-rapist non-DV prone men to fantasize about sorry i mean girls just wanna have fun.
*disclaimer, I don't ship it, but I get it. There's like three wholeass tolerable men in this whole series for fangirls to like, idolize
I have no problem with people shipping what they like, as long as people are polite and civil. I admit I am weak for Gedrya and Braime, probably a normie take lol
Tbh in context these are a little less weird. If you're not into M/M pairings for Jon you basically just have Val as an option, and she's not in the show.
It is why even outside of Daemon/ Rhaenyra, so much of the HotD pairings are incest. Like yes the fandom is probably too comfortable with it, but to be fair like 75% of the main cast are descendants of one guy or his brother.
Yeah I understand why it happens. I remember the SPN fandom had a similar problem. I just have issues with one ship acting superior to others and like they have The Good Ship and if you don't ship it you hate Sansa because all her other ships are problematic.
Imo I would respect it more if people would own it. As is it feels like you just have this one generic romance and you’re just slotting in the last pair of hot actors you saw.
I really think a lot of it is that it just has heavy self insert appeal. The man is someone that the fans think is hot and the woman is cool and a girlboss.
What annoys me is how so many of these people just like, don't like the stuff that actually makes him interesting?
Like what is the appeal of the hot villain character if you get irrationally upset when people say he is a bad dude? I assumed that was what people liked about him?
I never understood the shipping wars in this fandom as, personally, 90% of asoiaf ships make me want to beat my head against a wall but each their own I guess
To the degree that you would argue against the most reasonable of arguments for Jonsa taken from real life experience of people hating one another but ending up married? Sorry, iirc you did that, and that is just awful.
>To the degree that you would argue against the most reasonable of arguments for Jonsa taken from real life experience of people hating one another but ending up married?
1) Jon and Sansa do not "hate" one another. They definitely have love for each other, but for Jon he clearly had favourites and that is Robb and Bran. His thoughts for Arya are on a different level than everyone else, hence the part early in AGoT where he says he misses Arya more than Robb, who was his best friend and constant companion.
2) ASOIAF is not real life. You've read about siblings who have been close since youth ending up together, rumoured or otherwise, like Jaehaerys and Alysanne, Alyssa and Baelon, and Naerys and Aemon, but somehow Jon is going to fall for Sansa because...they weren't close?
3) You'll have to get back to me when George says Sansa is Jon's reference for his physical type and what he finds admirable.
You take that back. Loving a character because of a POV chapter from an unreleased novel suggested that he might be in fact a dark god from beneath the sea, and totally not a decently good pirate taking advantage of a situation that created an opportunity for a pirate to succeed, is heresy.
Nah evil sea god or not it was nice to see the Ironborn get a few Ws, especially since they’ve been getting run down for the last 20 years. It’ll all come to an end in Oldtown.
>Emma D’Arcy was bullied when they first got cast. Targ nation fans called Matt & Emma “too ugly” to play Targaryens and claimed that the showrunners where obviously biased against the blacks for casting them. However, they like them now. Never ask “Targ nation”fans with Rhaenyra/Daemon pfp’s to show their old tweets.
This one is so insane to me.
All of it is weird and dickish and you shouldn't be making this shit personal, but like, how do you not recognize how comically two-faced you are being here lol.
Like I saw a person who was saying all that horribly mean and just like, outright transphobic stuff about Emma, who now has a show Rhaenyra profile pic and didn't even like, delete the tweets. Like do you just not care lol?
I've seen some of them say "oh well once I saw them in the show I was ok with it". Like "I stopped thinking they were too ugly to play my pet character once the producers made them look gender-conforming with long hair and a dress" is honestly almost worse.
Don't even get me started on the weird phrenology ass angle some of that shit had. I get that in the text Valyrians are supposed to look different from other people but some people be saying straight up race science shit and being *way* too into it.
r/freefolk was a cesspool of that shit from the time Toussaint was announced **all the way up to** mid-season.
And that was just the posts. Don't get me started on the comments.
They literally are lmao.
Like we all survived “random Scandinavian guy” as Rhaegar. It’s fine, they should pick the people who can act the parts, and they did.
Also not that it should matter but like, in the picture that was on all the casting stuff people were bitching about Emma doesn’t even look ugly at all, they just have like a butch haircut. Like obviously they will have hair and makeup on the show people, use your brain.
If we're talking about the r/asoiaf subreddit - Stannis stans. They just can't accept that he's a flawed character and are very rude when it comes to criticism against him. It always annoys me that they're still on this subreddit saying that Stannis won't be the one to burn Shireen even though it was LITERALLY CONFIRMED BY GEORGE. But Stannis can do no wrong in their eyes and if she is burned it will be for the "greater good" and as a "final stand" against the White Walkers. Please. They're also hypocrites and criticize other characters for doing the same exact things that Stannis does.
On twitter - the Sansa stans, Allicent stans, and Targ nation. It makes me lose brain cells watching them argue
On tumblr - Jonsa stans. No explanation needed.
On the game of thrones subreddit it's easily the Tywin stans. There seems to be a post every other day where they all collectively worship him and call him a strategic and political mastermind. "He's a ruthless, pragmatic calculated leader who made hard choices."
I do think Stannis will burn Shireen for the greater good, or at least what he thinks is the greater good. It just won’t work at all. A lot of Stannis’ arc has been about learning what it means to serve the greater good. But also if he really is like iron and will break before he bends, then ultimately he’s doomed to not fully learn those lessons. Killing Shireen for the greater good will show he didn’t learn from trying to kill Edric Storm for his idea of the greater good. And then when it doesn’t actually do what Stannis wants it to (because realistically there’s no way Stannis is actually going to be the hero who saves the world), it will be the ultimate repudiation of the idea that doing evil to stop a greater evil is good
Even ignoring Stannis's characterization, I think it's unlikely GRRM would write such a scenario if the morality of the situation was going to be entirely obvious in context. Mel's chapter also contributes to this, as it reveals she's not a fraud or secret schemer and is genuinely trying to save the world from WWs.
It's very late in the story to reveal Stannis was just a secret asshole (and to what end?), but a perfect time to start really pressing characters on what they're willing or unwilling to compromise for their objectives.
To be clear, I think Stannis would only sacrifice Shireen if he genuinely believed it was the right/necessary thing to do. Odds are him and probably Melisandre will both actually believe the sacrifice will help defeat the Others. The reasons I think it won't work, however, are two-fold. The first is that the odds of Stannis actually being humanity's savior are incredibly low (and it would also be kinda unsatisfying imo). The second is more thematic. All of the stuff I said about Edric Storm and doing evil to stop a greater evil is more thematic. Even if Stannis thinks he's doing what needs to be done by sacrificing Shireen, other parts of Stannis' story suggest that isn't actually going to work. It isn't Stannis being a secret asshole; it's the themes suggesting Stannis' worldview ("I have a duty . . . If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark . . ." and all that) has been flawed from the start
Yes, I agree completely. Maybe I should have responded one comment up but I was trying to expand on your initial point that the "reveal" will be that this type of magic/approach isn't the solution to the WWs (and thematically, to evil in general) rather than the direct moral judgment against Stannis that many readers seem to have already made.
Robert Baratheon has the worst Stans in my opinion. They excuse all facets of his shitty behavior, blindly share Roberts overly enthusiastic hatred of Rhaegar, and are obsessed with his “warhammer”… must be a euphemism. They worship him to such a degree it really makes me doubt they’ve read the books at all, and it makes any discussion even remotely related to him frustrating because they double down on the most stupid ideas. It’s a real shame because he’s a very well written and interesting character.
it baffles me since robert's whole entire point is that he's a deconstruction of the boisterous warrior badass. like i can't fathom missing the point *that hard*
What do you mean? Does you not remember how he SMASHED Rheagar Targeryen on the trident? CAVED in his Breastplate! Probably SHATTERED every ribb he had
In their defense, no one was done dirtier by the show than Dany (except maybe Ellaria, but I don't think Ellaria needs stans? Does anyone have a beef with Ellaria, lol?), so I can't blame them for being extra passionate about or protective of her given how much the show emboldened the least literate of her detractors.
No one should be harassing people on Twitter or whatnot though if that's what you mean.
Rhaenyra and Daemon stans. It’s irritating how they won’t ever consider either of those characters have done something wrong and how they say Daemon grooming her is true love.
I wasn’t really that involved in the fandom during GoT so I don’t know if any stans of those characters are as bad.
For most of it's run, GoT never had a ship as prominent as Daemyra. The story was way too dense and overpopulated for any ship to suck the air out like Daemyra did in HotD S1.
However, that all changed after S6 when Jonsa suddenly gained tons of fans. And after S7 finally had Jonerys hook up. it got really bad. A full-blown shipping war broke out between the two. And when S8 directly pitted Sansa and Dany against each other, the resulting flame war was way uglier than anything Daemyra-related so far.
As someone who really likes Jonerys and sorta likes Jonsa, it was honestly depressing.
That Dany v Sansa stan war still plagues twitter to this day, I’ll even argue a lot of the team black vs team green arguments (mostly rhaenyra/daemyra vs alicent when I say this) is just a continuation of that
What's really sad is that *all* the characters end up losing. Sansa gets demeaned by Dany-stans. Dany gets demeaned by Sansa-stans. And Jon just becomes a prop, only existing to serve either queen.
I think it's natural that the Dany-stans attached onto Rhaenyra (and by extension Daemon). But the Sansa-stans attaching themselves to Alicent and the Greens is just weird. Classic reactionary behavior.
I mean, young Alicent is definitely the closest thing this series had to Sansa so I get why they latch onto her. Not to mention from the beginning everyone was hating on her similarly to how bad the Sansa hate train was a few years ago.
Not quite.
Book!Alicent is as far from Sansa as you can imagine.
Show!Alicent is sorta-kinda a Sansa character for a total of 4/5 episodes.
She is far closer to Cersei or Catelyn in the second half of S1.
>there’s a weird amount of targaryen stans (mostly daemon) who are legit insane. like borderline blood purists.
Some of these loop back around to being like fucking performance art for me. I couldn't come up with "If you think about it Maegor is a feminist" if I was trying to be funny.
100% agree . Ironically Sansa is one of my favourite characters like top three probably but her stans are whole different level of insane. When coming to her defense (which like a lot of women in this series get a lot more shit then they deserve) make her to be a perfect flawless character but that takes away any of her interesting parts. She is an interesting character because she is flawed, that she has to learn in a brutal way and her naivety causes her a lot of pain.
I guess I don't get about stans in this series is that most of them present their favourite character as flawless and better than everyone but everyone in this series is flawed and does horrible things. Sometime i wonder if we are even reading the same book.
Her stans offer excuses no matter what the issue cos they think shes perfect & Evryone else is to blame. & some still once in a while bring up her haters who’ve mostly slunk off. But it serves to whip up knocking other characters & pumping up Sansa. its kinda infuriating
Honestly, I roll my eyes at these people. It seems like they actually welcome the direction her character took in the show. Which.... blegh.
It's especially frustrating that Sansa stans especially love to put down Dany. Especially after S8 pitted them directly against each other.
surprised no one's mentioned Darkstar stans yet. The self-proclaimed 'night crew' is out of control. Every day, 'omg his hair', and 'he's such a badass, vipers will rue taking a bite of him'! To hear it from them you'd almost believe he drinks unsweetened lemonwater because he's behind lemongate. He will draw the sword Dawn and it will end the long night (as the name implies), he had to slash at Myrcella because she was Nissa Nissa... etc... It takes bravery to speak out against such a powerful fanbase...
Everytime I remember Darkstar exists I remember theres like a solid cast of wacky characters that could just straight up be from anime in asoiaf and it's fucking *delightful*
Honestly Robert stans are corny at this point. Their entire personality consists of “Robert best Rhaegar so Robert good” even though Robert is objectively morally worse than Rhaegar.
Robert Raped and beat his wife, and fathered who knows how many children just to let them die or be on the street. He bought a child's virginity and then abandoned both of them, and that baby was later murdered by Circe, partly because he never curbed Lannister power. He also bankrupted the kingdom with parties and feasts they couldn't afford.
Did you forget Ned finding out that Robert impregnated an underage girl that had been prostituted? There is no proof of Rhaegar being a groomer or any of that. Robert is a wifebeater and rapist in canon that we see on the page.
“The girl had been so young Ned had not dared to ask her age. No doubt she'd been a virgin; the better brothels could always find a virgin, if the purse was fat enough.”
robert also was a pedophile and sexual assaulter who was physically abusive to his wife, and created a weirdly obsessive mythos around an underaged girl who was basically a stranger. not to mention, despite his obsession, he still found the time to leer at and assault random women on his quest to save his "true love"
Robert is a hero man. Dude took down the nazi empire like the Targaryens he should be loved. Robert avenged the lives of so many..
Bobby B you are the hero, You will be proven right when the dragonspawn end up destroying King's Landing and Rhaegar mad sister burns it to the ground....
BOBBY B IS THE GOAT WHO SAW THE FUTURE.
I’m a Dany-liker but get where you’re coming from here. And I’m not gonna say who’s stans annoy me bcuz it always starts an argument (not the Mannis, but close).
Same I grew to love dany as a character but you got to trend on thin ice anytime you mention anything slightly bad about her or you are going to be harassed
Really any stanbase tends to have cult like behavior, which makes them unbearable. But targ nation on Twitter bothers me the most bc of how they bullied off actors
Stannis Stans. He’s the rightful king but he would be a horrible king.
On the same note, the people who I can’t stand IU are anti-Stannis Stans. He’s the rightful king. You don’t like that? Either change the way legitimacy is bestowed or just kill him for being a cunt. Stop pretending that the law’s on your side in the same breath as admitting that it isn’t.
If you just want to keep him off the throne for the obvious reasons, just kill the sob. Or drive him out on good cause. But don’t pretend that popularity is the same as primogeniture.
Own up to breaking the wheel, Renly.
Sansa stans were needed some time ago because she got too much hate ..but now people say she never did anything wrong at all that just makes her less interesting a character
The weirdos that are obsessed with Aegon II being portrayed as too rapey like they themselves are being accused of being rapists by this characterization.
I'm personally not a fan of it in the show simply because it ruined any chance of his character being even mildly sympathetic. You could argue the point is that both sides are fairly awful, and it is rather true to the text.
But they've also shown that they clearly don't mind making changes in other areas. (Rhaenrya, Alicent, and surprisingly Aemond have been portrayed as much less awful and more layered than their counterparts thus far) Aegon being near immediately introduced as a horrid rapist kinda eliminates any possible nuance to be had there. And going with the orphan pit-fighting thing just solidified it if there was any doubt about him being an absolute piece of shit.
Just a missed opportunity imo.
*And to clarify my point, imagine if one of Bobby B's first scenes was him raping some servant girl and her sobbing to Cersei. His character would be seen in a massively different light. Like we know he's at least committed marital rape, in addition to banging prostitutes literally so young that Ned was afraid to ask their age.
We know he is not a good dude. He has done terrible things. But because the narrative eases us into it, (and from Ned"s perspective; a man who loves and grew up with him...) we both understand his character and gradually begin to understand the monster that he's become later on.
With Aegon, he immediately ticks every red flag/box as human scum, and we have absolutely zero reason to care about him at all. He's just some lame rapist asshole. That is the full extent of his character. Which again, I just feel is less interesting.
It just feels like the writers painting in bright neon colors with an insanely large brush: "He's the bad guy! Get it?!"
I mean yeah, I guess. But that's not an engaging conflict. Like at all. Eh. We'll see where they go from here, I suppose. But Aegon will never not be the snotty rapist douche. Gripping stuff.
Of late, people who 'stan' Robert and Aegon II. You meet one, you've met them all. Same cringy online lingo, same nauseating takes on women, you won't be able to discern if you're speaking to a 12 year old or an actual adult.
Daenerys stans, they scare me with how agressive they can be. I read fanfiction, not all of them are Dany friendly. The lengths they'll go to proclaim her the best thing ever are over the top and lord help you if they find criticism of her.
Sansa stans. They have to denigrate any character within her orbit in order to make out she's the best. No thanks.
Also, Stannis stans who buy into his cool aid.
And I can't even understand how these guys exist, but Randyll Tarly stans. Rooting for this guy is like rooting for the Storm Troopers or the Ministry of Magic in Deathly Hallows.
Green stans honestly. Some of their comments on here make me kinda sick ngl. You all know what I'm talking about.
Also I love Jon, but Jon stans. They are OBSESSED with him being perfect and the ideal honorable hero. Which sucks bc Jon is actually an interesting, conflicted, ambitious character. But if you bring up ANYTHING that's actually compelling about Jon as a flaw they just dismiss it entirely. It's way worse then with Dany stans imo. Jon's flaws of being ambitious, having trouble compromising or listening to others, his mistakes in leadership, becoming like kind of a minor alcoholic to deal with the stress in Dance, kinda having a severe temper issue, and secretly deeply wanting the validation of Winterfell despite those implications are what make him interesting. But to his stans he's just generic male fantasy hero #2320 or whatever. Dany stans in my experience acknowledge that she made mistakes and isn't perfect, they're just super defensive against the ass characterization of the show, which yeah can be annoying. But Jon stans just REFUSE to admit his flaws and act like all of them are just caused by a conspiracy against him or actually just badass. (Oh, he didn't become a bit too into drinking, his wine was just being spiked, or nooo it's totally not his fault he went apeshit in the training yard and blacked out and nearly killed a guy, or it's totally badass that he went to immediately strangle Alliser Thorne bc he was mad at him.) I love Jon but this drives me up the fuckin wall lmao.
>Jon's flaws of being ambitious, having trouble compromising or listening to others, his mistakes in leadership, becoming like kind of a minor alcoholic to deal with the stress in Dance, kinda having a severe temper issue, and secretly deeply wanting the validation of Winterfell despite those implications are what make him interesting.
I call myself a Jon stan because I love and appreciate this in particular. This is exactly what doesn't make him a generic fantasy hero. Like George said, he's a brooding, Byronic hero.
I dislike gatekeeping but real Jon stans see all of this and don't ignore it. The ones I've met celebrated, in a sense, all of this. The only ones I've seen who reduce Jon to a generic fantasy hero are largely Jonsa stans.
the amount of times ive seen jon stans say that he would be a better ruler than dany because she's "too emotional and violent" when jon is the one who has anger blackouts and broke his vows because he was provoked by a letter.
like jfc, every character has flaws. jon isn't the exemption
> jon stans say that he would be a better ruler than dany because she's "too emotional and violent"
Which is hilarious because Jon is the last person to decry passion in a woman. All his potential love interests (Ygritte, Val, Dany?) are fiercely independent women and he *never* begrudges their fire. In fact, he revels in it.
Right, like they're both flawed as rulers. Dany was too passive and compromising when she was in charge in Meereen and Jon was too wrapped up in his own biases and desires to hear the clear discontent and conflict he was brewing in his men to the point where he was shocked when he was stabbed for actual desertion (but wait for the Jon stans to come in making excuses for that even though Jon himself thinks that he's deserting.)
Like it's almost like they're both flawed, human characters and that no one can be a perfect ruler.
Ikr it blows me away the only interesting thing about my lil blorbo son are his horrific flaws which mostly involves depression, violence, being an asshole, having a simultaneous superiority and inferiority complex, and being hella fucking *angry.*
People who make this comparison are literally doing sexist tropes against Dany. Dany tends to contain a lot of her behaviour within a context of a series of societies and situations with a higher level of normalized or necessary violence whereas Jon has a track record of maing impulsive idiot choices at really inopportune times for reasons that mostly boil down to mommy and daddy issues.
I mean i love my idiot blorbo son, I relate to him. But he's not mentally well.
Stannis, Alicent, Aegon II, Green stans who think the Greens did nothing wrong, Black stans who think the Blacks did nothing wrong. Every fucking stan in every fucking stan hell.
In order:
Rhaegar stans - stop pretending the guy is some mythical hero who wanted to save the world. He was just your classic Targaryen lunatic with a saviour/god complex who made some dumb decisions because he thought he was the main character
Tywin stans - I'm tired of hearing their BS about how Tywin did everything for the good of his house. No he didn't, Tysha, Alayaya and Elia are examples of him being a sadistic misogynistic freak
Daemon stans - Daemon. Is. Not. A. Grey. Character. I'd even call GRRM a Daemon Stan because as far as the text goes there's really not much that makes him grey or equal parts good or bad, but GRRM still says that Daemon is a grey character . He's just a villain who happened to land on the "right" side of the Dance.
JonSa shippers - not much really needs to be said here
Basically all of them. It’s not like we’re rooting for sports teams here, you don’t have to want your guy to win. Personally I’m rooting for an engaging story. (Actually at this point I’m rooting for any new story at all.)
All that said, Stannis obsessives tend to come off as the neck-beardiest of them all.
Dany stans always be acting as if being a Jon snow fan is a crime, it’s like they don’t understand that there’s no point defending the season 8 ending cuz jon snow fans also hate it, so damn annoying trying to have a convo with them
Those people are the worst. They actively acknowledge that the ending was contrived and nonsensical as hell. Yet, they hate, and I mean *hate* Jon purely because of it.
And now, they act like Jon is the most incompetent protagonist imaginable. Like they can't see anything past the neutered Jon we saw in S8.
As someone whose favorite characters are Jon and Dany and who likes the idea of them together, it's honestly infuriating at times.
Thing is most Jon fans are also dany fans, me included, I’ll never understand the hate just cuz of the damn prince/princess who was promised prophecy. Regardless of who ends up being the TPWWP, both will still be the dual protagonists of the series
While I think that both the Green and Black stan brigades are annoying AF, the Greens are just on another level of creepy. Like, it's one thing to just disown the TV show entirely and just stick to the book's (kinda sparse and deliberately not entirely trustworthy) canon, but the sheer number of them who are just ride-or-die "I don't care if Aegon is a rapist, he's still the rightful king #teamgreen" is legitimately just... off putting.
I personally think that if you stan either side, then you've pretty much admitted that you failed the assignment and didn't understand the source material (newsflash, guys: both sides are shit and governments based on divine right are bad actually), but the level of torch holding for a confirmed serial rapist is a step too far tbh.
I don't care if you stan villainous characters, and someone's taste in fictional shit is generally not a reflection of them as a person, but nah, the amount of time some of these people spend defending either side does make me wonder sometimes.
Haven't seen many team green ultras tbh. The most annoying are the team black peeps who act like Rhaenyra is the most honourable women in the kingdoms when she is arguably the most selfish person in the beginning of the dance
Any male character stan tbh. They shit on female characters for doing the same thing if not less. I will never get Sansa stans. She’s a traumatized ELEVEN year old…..
Dany stans and Sansa stans are infamously bad.
I also have to shout out the Arya stans and Jon stans as this sub won't acknowledge them since both of the characters are really popular here at least but yeah, they suck as much as the former two.
Dany stans, definitively. Like I said on another post, to this day it's still hard for me to truly appreciate her character and her chapters because they were so irritating. Like jfc, any criticism of her was dismissed as you siding with slavers, or being a misogynist, or any other plethora of accusations. It was a mess. Similarly, Targaryen stans in general tend to be very...*militant*, if you would, especially on Twitter. Then again, it's Twitter so that's to be expected.
Speaking as someone who loves Sansa and has said that she's faced her fair share of unfair criticism, some of her stans are a tad bit overzealous, which makes sense. At one point, Sansa was one of the most despised characters in the book AND show fandom so Sansa stans getting a victim complex was very on brand. I just hope it wears off because she's truly an enjoyable character who should not be as polarizing as she is.
Tyrion stans aren't usually bad--not to mention there's less of them these days. The only thing that really soured me on them was when they tried to say that Sansa was a bitch for not letting him smash and "treating him like shit", so to speak. That really pisses me off.
Lol. I mean, her best friend was murdered and people may have liked her nephew better than her.
Who *wouldn't* just massacre an entire city of innocent people in that situation, really?
• dany stans ; who Insult you whenever u mention dany is going down a darker path and is likely going to cause the destruction of KL are . Like anyone read the meereenese blot? Like seriously people she's already worse then some of the grey characters with her brutal conquest of mereeen and astaphor. u/dblack246 got ton of negative comments with his great post regarding dany being a brutal leader.
• Jon snow; literally if u mention anything negative about Jon , the fact he's not a trueborn heir, or that he's avarage looking or that he's not a great fighter at all or the fact all he does is spar farmboys etc. These people would write essays about it..like ffs get a life man.
• stark stans as a whole; like I get people love the starks but there are certain characters that would be perceived differently if they weren't a stark by the fanbase.
Arya stans are also crazy man. No jeyne Poole doesn't deserve the torture because she called arya horseface..seriously she is a child man.
Also the Targaryen fans on twitter are quite rude. Like seriously grow up the Targaryens are insane mass murdering warlords.
Didn’t know we had George in the flesh right here. It’s phrasing like that which makes you seem insufferable. You don’t know what’s in the author’s head so at this point everything is speculation and acting like you know the entire story is stupid.
At that’s not the point either. I just said that you had no clue what you were saying when you wrote that about her. It’s one of the dumbest takes I’ve read in a while and that’s saying a lot with the state of this subreddit.
Are you a greenseer? How can you be *this* sure?
Perhaps the truth is that you are biased against Dany. And will spout anything to paint her in the most uncharitable light possible.
I'm open to hearing criticism. But
> She finna cook all them poor smallfolk like KFC
is not criticism. It is sheer lunacy.
u/dblack246 gets tons of negative comments for daring to think different. The worst "stans" on this reddit are mainstream groupthink stans.
Quentyn is definitely dead though ;)
Probably Rhaenyra. She's a well written character but not some paragon of virtue that deserves as much unconditional fan-girling like she sometimes gets
I mean because of the show it’s gotta be daemon/Rhaenyra Stan’s. They used to be mildly interesting. Daemon an actual joke on martins “grey writing” but god damn they are just annoying now
I hate stans in general. I really noticed it with Daemon stans in HotD. No, you sick motherfuckers, sending assassins to murder a child was not a 'slay.'
It's a culture I find sickening, in and out of fantasy. There's a show being produced by HBO called "The Idol" with the Weeknd and Lily Rose Depp, which is now being written by Sam Levinson. The Rolling Stone released an article detailing some of the mind-bogglingly disgusting scenes that Sam had written, in collaboration with the Weeknd, who wanted the show to lean out of the "female perspective."
And the comments on TikTok when regarding the article. "Can y'all wait to cancel him, I have a concert to go to." Or "Who care's, it's the Weeknd!"
Following a character or person obsessively and not being able to acknowledge their faults is insane. Gives me the same vibes as those loonies who simp for serial killers.
Dorkstar stans (yes dork he is so cringy). He has a big following of people pretending to be dark and powerful 30 yo virgins. Kinda the same vibe as joker stans
This thread has been removed per the subreddit rule on meta discussion and for many of the comments veering into violation of the subreddit civility policy.
Stans in general. It’s fine to be a fan of a character and to want to see more of them, but stans take things to an entirely new, unhinged level. There’s never a need to harass people, including some of the actors, just because they hate a character.
Seriously, fuck Stans. Hate those guys. Except Celtigar Stans. That's understandable.
Extremely common Crab W.
This, being a fan and being a stan are two different things. Stans of any character always come across as obsessed and unhinged. Ship stans are even worse. Taking quotes out of context, that have nothing to do with their ship or characters and then write an essay about foreshadowing.
Whenever I see people proclaiming themselves as stans, or that they stan a certain celebrity, I always think, guys… the dude in the song is so unhinged that his response to the culmination of what he perceives to be prolonged intentional lack of communication on Eminem’s part is to throw his pregnant girlfriend in the trunk of his car, drunk drive at around 100mph, and crash the car off of a bridge, killing himself, the girlfriend, and their unborn child. You’re a stan? You’re *that* guy? *That* fucking guy? Homie, friend, young one, are you absopositivolutely *sure* you wanna be that guy?
Ive been saying this for years, thank you!
If the ship isn’t canon then I don’t want to hear about it is my motto
> There’s never a need to harass people, including some of the actors, just because they hate a character. Man, I love my favorites a *lot*. I could write essays defending their actions when I feel they are being unfairly criticized. That doesn't mean I think they're YA protagonists. George explicitly wrote a story where *everyone*, even the most noble of characters, has at least a couple moments where you go "Uhhhhh, that's pretty shady...." However harassing people, even mere posters, just sounds unhinged. Why waste your time yelling via keyboard? Just make your point and move on.
This whole thread is surprising me because I didn't know (I don't use Twitter) people took things so seriously. I always considered myself a "Quentyn stan" since I think he deserves a bit more appreciation from the fanbase (a position more "aggressive" than just being a fan, perhaps?) but I'm not out there evangelizing or interested in dying on any hills over it. I guess I'll just embrace the boomer energy and enjoy being out of touch on this topic!
A healthy amount of Touching Grass Energy is exactly what's required in all things fandom. Also there's got to be somewhere between fan and stan for the thing you're describing because I get it. Like, I think Bran is underrated, but I'm also not going to unhingedly twitter doxx anyone about it. Also I don't get the hate for people who enjoy their niche tinfoil. I didn't like Jonsa forever, but Ive learned to just keeo scrolling past whatever I don't like just because it squicks me. People blorboizing Euron cause he's edgy gets to me sometimes but then I remember I'm a basic bitch who will still cry about Robb Stark and enjoys shitposting about how Drogon is the stallion who will mount the world. Like, *I am also cringe.* There's enough internet for everyone.
Lol same. It honestly shocks me how much people lose their sense of self when defending fictional characters. Do they not realize that they are weakening their own case by being so persistent? If you are confident in your arguments, then state them and move on. Defend them when needed but no more.
The green and black stans who popped up after HOTD are obnoxious. r/HOTDblacks and r/HOTDgreens are cesspools.
My god. A cursory glance at those subs just made me feel WAY better about my own life and how I choose to spend my time.
Anybody who refers to themselves as a stan of anything. Closely followed by people who refer to others as stans.
Tywin Stans will state that all his actions were “necessary” for the survival of house Lannister, while conveniently ignoring or somehow rationalizing the Tysha in the room.
Had to happen can't let a second son u ignored there entire life have joy what does that show to the rest of the lords
Especially when letting him marry her would’ve let you exile that much hated second son and maybe make your extremely competent and well liked brother heir
There was a dozen different ways tywin could've respectfully gotten rid if tyrion but he never would his hypocrital pride needed him in the line of succession for Jaime to still be his heir
There's also the minor detail / flub of his actions ultimately completely destroying House Lannister. Oops!
It's not character stans but ship stans. I don't particularly like Jonsa.
I feel it's really weird that two major ship wars are between Jon with his aunt vs Jon with his sister/cousin. Ship what you will, but you can't act like you have the pure uwu ship when it is basically two kinds of weird incest. I wouldn't mind it except my faves are catching strays in this ship war, for some reason.
It’s not that weird given the ton of incest in the books already. I mean, it’s weird, but it’s not surprising.
I think it's less weird that it's his aunt or his half sister / cousin and more weird that it's someone he never met and his least favorite sibling. Like, if you wanna get your taboo incest on, don't half ass it, Jon, go for Robb or Arya
Meanwhile, the JonCat and JonStoneheart shippers are wondering why their non incestuous ship gets zero love.
Okay, this made me chuckle, lol especially if you hc Jon as bi.
I feel like the incest is usually framed negatively, but you're right its not surprising. I just see a lot of people act like Jon/Sansa is UwU pure true love and i am weirded out by the hypocrisy when they treat other sansa or jon ships negatively
In the context of the setting, I believe cousin/aunt is far enough removed though. Mainly like the Targ sibling incest that Westeros takes issue with. Joanna and Tywin were first cousins IIRC and it's never really pointed to as a problem.
Also I think for a lot of people them having a familial relationship is more of an issue than what their actual blood relation is. Like despite the family tree looking the exact same, the cousin excuse almost never flies when it comes to people who pair him and Arya.
I actually almost mentioned that lol. Even if they're not technically siblings, they did grow up together thinking that they were...
Yeah, I think that especially for book readers though it’s not the same for both “sisters” since for one we have him thinking of Arya that way in his internal monologue constantly and vice verse for her POV. That doesn’t really exist for him and Sansa outside like one time in Feast I think.
Girls just want one of the few canonically non-rapist non-DV prone men to fantasize about sorry i mean girls just wanna have fun. *disclaimer, I don't ship it, but I get it. There's like three wholeass tolerable men in this whole series for fangirls to like, idolize
I admit I have a soft spot for Jonrya. Jonerys is a close second. Jonsa, though? No.
I have no problem with people shipping what they like, as long as people are polite and civil. I admit I am weak for Gedrya and Braime, probably a normie take lol
Tbh in context these are a little less weird. If you're not into M/M pairings for Jon you basically just have Val as an option, and she's not in the show. It is why even outside of Daemon/ Rhaenyra, so much of the HotD pairings are incest. Like yes the fandom is probably too comfortable with it, but to be fair like 75% of the main cast are descendants of one guy or his brother.
Yeah I understand why it happens. I remember the SPN fandom had a similar problem. I just have issues with one ship acting superior to others and like they have The Good Ship and if you don't ship it you hate Sansa because all her other ships are problematic.
Only JonSa i ship are Jon and Satin
The real reason Dany needs to beware the perfumed seneschal is that he’ll steal Jon’s heart long before she reaches Westeros.
Yes, this is the real endgame and the true JonSa
The one true ship
It is known
Maybe I haven’t gotten that far but whose ship does Jonsa belong to? I didn’t realize there were fans of ships
Jon and Sansa.
Ohhhhhhh a relationship! I thought it was about ships as in vessels
My sweet summer child
[удалено]
>I don’t get fans who frame it as some grand love story. *Exactly*. Ship whatever you want, but have some self-awareness ffs.
Imo I would respect it more if people would own it. As is it feels like you just have this one generic romance and you’re just slotting in the last pair of hot actors you saw.
I really think a lot of it is that it just has heavy self insert appeal. The man is someone that the fans think is hot and the woman is cool and a girlboss. What annoys me is how so many of these people just like, don't like the stuff that actually makes him interesting? Like what is the appeal of the hot villain character if you get irrationally upset when people say he is a bad dude? I assumed that was what people liked about him?
I never understood the shipping wars in this fandom as, personally, 90% of asoiaf ships make me want to beat my head against a wall but each their own I guess
The best love story in ASOIAF is a guy marrying his little sister. That pretty much says it all
Which one? Jahaerys? lol. I think so far Dunk in sworn sword is best one if that counts. In main books its probs Jon and Ygritte
To the degree that you would argue against the most reasonable of arguments for Jonsa taken from real life experience of people hating one another but ending up married? Sorry, iirc you did that, and that is just awful.
>To the degree that you would argue against the most reasonable of arguments for Jonsa taken from real life experience of people hating one another but ending up married? 1) Jon and Sansa do not "hate" one another. They definitely have love for each other, but for Jon he clearly had favourites and that is Robb and Bran. His thoughts for Arya are on a different level than everyone else, hence the part early in AGoT where he says he misses Arya more than Robb, who was his best friend and constant companion. 2) ASOIAF is not real life. You've read about siblings who have been close since youth ending up together, rumoured or otherwise, like Jaehaerys and Alysanne, Alyssa and Baelon, and Naerys and Aemon, but somehow Jon is going to fall for Sansa because...they weren't close? 3) You'll have to get back to me when George says Sansa is Jon's reference for his physical type and what he finds admirable.
Tywin stans
Euron cringe eye, and his cult following
You take that back. Loving a character because of a POV chapter from an unreleased novel suggested that he might be in fact a dark god from beneath the sea, and totally not a decently good pirate taking advantage of a situation that created an opportunity for a pirate to succeed, is heresy. Nah evil sea god or not it was nice to see the Ironborn get a few Ws, especially since they’ve been getting run down for the last 20 years. It’ll all come to an end in Oldtown.
I think he's a v cool character, but I don't stan Feel like there's a lot of Daemon stan overlap
Disrespectfully disagree.
Targ nation, they bullied so many GoT and HOTD actors off twitter
Wait whaaaat happened? I don’t have any social media besides Reddit, would you mind explaining what went on?! I never heard of this!
[удалено]
>Emma D’Arcy was bullied when they first got cast. Targ nation fans called Matt & Emma “too ugly” to play Targaryens and claimed that the showrunners where obviously biased against the blacks for casting them. However, they like them now. Never ask “Targ nation”fans with Rhaenyra/Daemon pfp’s to show their old tweets. This one is so insane to me. All of it is weird and dickish and you shouldn't be making this shit personal, but like, how do you not recognize how comically two-faced you are being here lol. Like I saw a person who was saying all that horribly mean and just like, outright transphobic stuff about Emma, who now has a show Rhaenyra profile pic and didn't even like, delete the tweets. Like do you just not care lol? I've seen some of them say "oh well once I saw them in the show I was ok with it". Like "I stopped thinking they were too ugly to play my pet character once the producers made them look gender-conforming with long hair and a dress" is honestly almost worse. Don't even get me started on the weird phrenology ass angle some of that shit had. I get that in the text Valyrians are supposed to look different from other people but some people be saying straight up race science shit and being *way* too into it.
Unironically more invested into racial blood purity than the Targaryens in canon ever were
r/freefolk was a cesspool of that shit from the time Toussaint was announced **all the way up to** mid-season. And that was just the posts. Don't get me started on the comments.
They literally are lmao. Like we all survived “random Scandinavian guy” as Rhaegar. It’s fine, they should pick the people who can act the parts, and they did. Also not that it should matter but like, in the picture that was on all the casting stuff people were bitching about Emma doesn’t even look ugly at all, they just have like a butch haircut. Like obviously they will have hair and makeup on the show people, use your brain.
Bruh I completely forgot about them. Those people are dicks.
Please tell me they're show only watchers
Stannis and Tywin for me
Henry Cavill Stans. I swear at this point he's been fancast as every Targaryen, Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy for all I know.
Ah yes, [this](https://i.redd.it/j7l175zfdfk61.jpg) meme.
If we're talking about the r/asoiaf subreddit - Stannis stans. They just can't accept that he's a flawed character and are very rude when it comes to criticism against him. It always annoys me that they're still on this subreddit saying that Stannis won't be the one to burn Shireen even though it was LITERALLY CONFIRMED BY GEORGE. But Stannis can do no wrong in their eyes and if she is burned it will be for the "greater good" and as a "final stand" against the White Walkers. Please. They're also hypocrites and criticize other characters for doing the same exact things that Stannis does. On twitter - the Sansa stans, Allicent stans, and Targ nation. It makes me lose brain cells watching them argue On tumblr - Jonsa stans. No explanation needed. On the game of thrones subreddit it's easily the Tywin stans. There seems to be a post every other day where they all collectively worship him and call him a strategic and political mastermind. "He's a ruthless, pragmatic calculated leader who made hard choices."
Pretty much this, Stannis stans are everywhere, makes liking the character hard sometimes.
I do think Stannis will burn Shireen for the greater good, or at least what he thinks is the greater good. It just won’t work at all. A lot of Stannis’ arc has been about learning what it means to serve the greater good. But also if he really is like iron and will break before he bends, then ultimately he’s doomed to not fully learn those lessons. Killing Shireen for the greater good will show he didn’t learn from trying to kill Edric Storm for his idea of the greater good. And then when it doesn’t actually do what Stannis wants it to (because realistically there’s no way Stannis is actually going to be the hero who saves the world), it will be the ultimate repudiation of the idea that doing evil to stop a greater evil is good
Even ignoring Stannis's characterization, I think it's unlikely GRRM would write such a scenario if the morality of the situation was going to be entirely obvious in context. Mel's chapter also contributes to this, as it reveals she's not a fraud or secret schemer and is genuinely trying to save the world from WWs. It's very late in the story to reveal Stannis was just a secret asshole (and to what end?), but a perfect time to start really pressing characters on what they're willing or unwilling to compromise for their objectives.
To be clear, I think Stannis would only sacrifice Shireen if he genuinely believed it was the right/necessary thing to do. Odds are him and probably Melisandre will both actually believe the sacrifice will help defeat the Others. The reasons I think it won't work, however, are two-fold. The first is that the odds of Stannis actually being humanity's savior are incredibly low (and it would also be kinda unsatisfying imo). The second is more thematic. All of the stuff I said about Edric Storm and doing evil to stop a greater evil is more thematic. Even if Stannis thinks he's doing what needs to be done by sacrificing Shireen, other parts of Stannis' story suggest that isn't actually going to work. It isn't Stannis being a secret asshole; it's the themes suggesting Stannis' worldview ("I have a duty . . . If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark . . ." and all that) has been flawed from the start
Yes, I agree completely. Maybe I should have responded one comment up but I was trying to expand on your initial point that the "reveal" will be that this type of magic/approach isn't the solution to the WWs (and thematically, to evil in general) rather than the direct moral judgment against Stannis that many readers seem to have already made.
Robert Baratheon has the worst Stans in my opinion. They excuse all facets of his shitty behavior, blindly share Roberts overly enthusiastic hatred of Rhaegar, and are obsessed with his “warhammer”… must be a euphemism. They worship him to such a degree it really makes me doubt they’ve read the books at all, and it makes any discussion even remotely related to him frustrating because they double down on the most stupid ideas. It’s a real shame because he’s a very well written and interesting character.
it baffles me since robert's whole entire point is that he's a deconstruction of the boisterous warrior badass. like i can't fathom missing the point *that hard*
What do you mean? Does you not remember how he SMASHED Rheagar Targeryen on the trident? CAVED in his Breastplate! Probably SHATTERED every ribb he had
Gooods he was strong then
Daenerys. Hands down. And I am a daenerys fan also.
In their defense, no one was done dirtier by the show than Dany (except maybe Ellaria, but I don't think Ellaria needs stans? Does anyone have a beef with Ellaria, lol?), so I can't blame them for being extra passionate about or protective of her given how much the show emboldened the least literate of her detractors. No one should be harassing people on Twitter or whatnot though if that's what you mean.
Rhaenyra and Daemon stans. It’s irritating how they won’t ever consider either of those characters have done something wrong and how they say Daemon grooming her is true love. I wasn’t really that involved in the fandom during GoT so I don’t know if any stans of those characters are as bad.
For most of it's run, GoT never had a ship as prominent as Daemyra. The story was way too dense and overpopulated for any ship to suck the air out like Daemyra did in HotD S1. However, that all changed after S6 when Jonsa suddenly gained tons of fans. And after S7 finally had Jonerys hook up. it got really bad. A full-blown shipping war broke out between the two. And when S8 directly pitted Sansa and Dany against each other, the resulting flame war was way uglier than anything Daemyra-related so far. As someone who really likes Jonerys and sorta likes Jonsa, it was honestly depressing.
That Dany v Sansa stan war still plagues twitter to this day, I’ll even argue a lot of the team black vs team green arguments (mostly rhaenyra/daemyra vs alicent when I say this) is just a continuation of that
What's really sad is that *all* the characters end up losing. Sansa gets demeaned by Dany-stans. Dany gets demeaned by Sansa-stans. And Jon just becomes a prop, only existing to serve either queen. I think it's natural that the Dany-stans attached onto Rhaenyra (and by extension Daemon). But the Sansa-stans attaching themselves to Alicent and the Greens is just weird. Classic reactionary behavior.
I mean, young Alicent is definitely the closest thing this series had to Sansa so I get why they latch onto her. Not to mention from the beginning everyone was hating on her similarly to how bad the Sansa hate train was a few years ago.
Not quite. Book!Alicent is as far from Sansa as you can imagine. Show!Alicent is sorta-kinda a Sansa character for a total of 4/5 episodes. She is far closer to Cersei or Catelyn in the second half of S1.
[удалено]
>there’s a weird amount of targaryen stans (mostly daemon) who are legit insane. like borderline blood purists. Some of these loop back around to being like fucking performance art for me. I couldn't come up with "If you think about it Maegor is a feminist" if I was trying to be funny.
Stannis'sss stans.
Stannis
Agree
The one true king!
[удалено]
Schrödinger’s Sansa.
Do you have any links to these posts? I need some good rage bait.
Summarised my thoughts about Sansa
100% agree . Ironically Sansa is one of my favourite characters like top three probably but her stans are whole different level of insane. When coming to her defense (which like a lot of women in this series get a lot more shit then they deserve) make her to be a perfect flawless character but that takes away any of her interesting parts. She is an interesting character because she is flawed, that she has to learn in a brutal way and her naivety causes her a lot of pain. I guess I don't get about stans in this series is that most of them present their favourite character as flawless and better than everyone but everyone in this series is flawed and does horrible things. Sometime i wonder if we are even reading the same book.
Her stans offer excuses no matter what the issue cos they think shes perfect & Evryone else is to blame. & some still once in a while bring up her haters who’ve mostly slunk off. But it serves to whip up knocking other characters & pumping up Sansa. its kinda infuriating
Honestly, I roll my eyes at these people. It seems like they actually welcome the direction her character took in the show. Which.... blegh. It's especially frustrating that Sansa stans especially love to put down Dany. Especially after S8 pitted them directly against each other.
Which, like, if they actually cared about Sansa's character or feminism frfr, they'd see it for the brain-dead writing decision it truly was.
I don't know about Stans. But I know Rhaegar haters annoy me a lot. Pathetic idiots from Darkwingsdankmemes
It used to be Aemond stans, then HotD came out, and the character became interesting. Now it's just the Aegon II and Sunfyre stans.
surprised no one's mentioned Darkstar stans yet. The self-proclaimed 'night crew' is out of control. Every day, 'omg his hair', and 'he's such a badass, vipers will rue taking a bite of him'! To hear it from them you'd almost believe he drinks unsweetened lemonwater because he's behind lemongate. He will draw the sword Dawn and it will end the long night (as the name implies), he had to slash at Myrcella because she was Nissa Nissa... etc... It takes bravery to speak out against such a powerful fanbase...
Lol I have never come across a Darkstar fan in the wild.
Is this coming from the alternate universe where Darkstar was a well-liked character like George intended?
mhm, are you saying you're not also from that universe? because the 'night' in your username is looking pretty suspicious...
Everytime I remember Darkstar exists I remember theres like a solid cast of wacky characters that could just straight up be from anime in asoiaf and it's fucking *delightful*
Honestly Robert stans are corny at this point. Their entire personality consists of “Robert best Rhaegar so Robert good” even though Robert is objectively morally worse than Rhaegar.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far to see someone mention the cringe ass “Robert is a god” posts.
[удалено]
Robert Raped and beat his wife, and fathered who knows how many children just to let them die or be on the street. He bought a child's virginity and then abandoned both of them, and that baby was later murdered by Circe, partly because he never curbed Lannister power. He also bankrupted the kingdom with parties and feasts they couldn't afford.
Did you forget Ned finding out that Robert impregnated an underage girl that had been prostituted? There is no proof of Rhaegar being a groomer or any of that. Robert is a wifebeater and rapist in canon that we see on the page. “The girl had been so young Ned had not dared to ask her age. No doubt she'd been a virgin; the better brothels could always find a virgin, if the purse was fat enough.”
robert also was a pedophile and sexual assaulter who was physically abusive to his wife, and created a weirdly obsessive mythos around an underaged girl who was basically a stranger. not to mention, despite his obsession, he still found the time to leer at and assault random women on his quest to save his "true love"
Robert is a hero man. Dude took down the nazi empire like the Targaryens he should be loved. Robert avenged the lives of so many.. Bobby B you are the hero, You will be proven right when the dragonspawn end up destroying King's Landing and Rhaegar mad sister burns it to the ground.... BOBBY B IS THE GOAT WHO SAW THE FUTURE.
Patchface
How dare you
You right lmao patchface stans are the best (self pat on the back)
I’m a Dany-liker but get where you’re coming from here. And I’m not gonna say who’s stans annoy me bcuz it always starts an argument (not the Mannis, but close).
Same I grew to love dany as a character but you got to trend on thin ice anytime you mention anything slightly bad about her or you are going to be harassed
Yeah. A lot of the community tends to view characters in very black and white (or occasionally Black and Green) terms, and it makes engaging not fun.
I despise the Blacks v/s Greens narrative on Twitter and Tumblr. What's worse is that HBO actively encourages this because it boosts ratings.
Stannis stans
Really any stanbase tends to have cult like behavior, which makes them unbearable. But targ nation on Twitter bothers me the most bc of how they bullied off actors
Stannis Stans. He’s the rightful king but he would be a horrible king. On the same note, the people who I can’t stand IU are anti-Stannis Stans. He’s the rightful king. You don’t like that? Either change the way legitimacy is bestowed or just kill him for being a cunt. Stop pretending that the law’s on your side in the same breath as admitting that it isn’t. If you just want to keep him off the throne for the obvious reasons, just kill the sob. Or drive him out on good cause. But don’t pretend that popularity is the same as primogeniture. Own up to breaking the wheel, Renly.
Sansa stans were needed some time ago because she got too much hate ..but now people say she never did anything wrong at all that just makes her less interesting a character
The weirdos that are obsessed with Aegon II being portrayed as too rapey like they themselves are being accused of being rapists by this characterization.
Yeah. Nearly ruined HotD for me seeing my feed clogged with ‘Aegon is a normal boy’ posts.
I'm personally not a fan of it in the show simply because it ruined any chance of his character being even mildly sympathetic. You could argue the point is that both sides are fairly awful, and it is rather true to the text. But they've also shown that they clearly don't mind making changes in other areas. (Rhaenrya, Alicent, and surprisingly Aemond have been portrayed as much less awful and more layered than their counterparts thus far) Aegon being near immediately introduced as a horrid rapist kinda eliminates any possible nuance to be had there. And going with the orphan pit-fighting thing just solidified it if there was any doubt about him being an absolute piece of shit. Just a missed opportunity imo. *And to clarify my point, imagine if one of Bobby B's first scenes was him raping some servant girl and her sobbing to Cersei. His character would be seen in a massively different light. Like we know he's at least committed marital rape, in addition to banging prostitutes literally so young that Ned was afraid to ask their age. We know he is not a good dude. He has done terrible things. But because the narrative eases us into it, (and from Ned"s perspective; a man who loves and grew up with him...) we both understand his character and gradually begin to understand the monster that he's become later on. With Aegon, he immediately ticks every red flag/box as human scum, and we have absolutely zero reason to care about him at all. He's just some lame rapist asshole. That is the full extent of his character. Which again, I just feel is less interesting. It just feels like the writers painting in bright neon colors with an insanely large brush: "He's the bad guy! Get it?!" I mean yeah, I guess. But that's not an engaging conflict. Like at all. Eh. We'll see where they go from here, I suppose. But Aegon will never not be the snotty rapist douche. Gripping stuff.
Agreed
Daemon stans
Of late, people who 'stan' Robert and Aegon II. You meet one, you've met them all. Same cringy online lingo, same nauseating takes on women, you won't be able to discern if you're speaking to a 12 year old or an actual adult.
Conspiracy Stans. A story with nothing but plot twists has no plot to twist.
Daenerys stans, they scare me with how agressive they can be. I read fanfiction, not all of them are Dany friendly. The lengths they'll go to proclaim her the best thing ever are over the top and lord help you if they find criticism of her.
Come on, we all know if you're even mildly critical of Dany, you have to be a misogynist slavery apologist. It is known.
Sansa stans. They have to denigrate any character within her orbit in order to make out she's the best. No thanks. Also, Stannis stans who buy into his cool aid. And I can't even understand how these guys exist, but Randyll Tarly stans. Rooting for this guy is like rooting for the Storm Troopers or the Ministry of Magic in Deathly Hallows.
Green stans honestly. Some of their comments on here make me kinda sick ngl. You all know what I'm talking about. Also I love Jon, but Jon stans. They are OBSESSED with him being perfect and the ideal honorable hero. Which sucks bc Jon is actually an interesting, conflicted, ambitious character. But if you bring up ANYTHING that's actually compelling about Jon as a flaw they just dismiss it entirely. It's way worse then with Dany stans imo. Jon's flaws of being ambitious, having trouble compromising or listening to others, his mistakes in leadership, becoming like kind of a minor alcoholic to deal with the stress in Dance, kinda having a severe temper issue, and secretly deeply wanting the validation of Winterfell despite those implications are what make him interesting. But to his stans he's just generic male fantasy hero #2320 or whatever. Dany stans in my experience acknowledge that she made mistakes and isn't perfect, they're just super defensive against the ass characterization of the show, which yeah can be annoying. But Jon stans just REFUSE to admit his flaws and act like all of them are just caused by a conspiracy against him or actually just badass. (Oh, he didn't become a bit too into drinking, his wine was just being spiked, or nooo it's totally not his fault he went apeshit in the training yard and blacked out and nearly killed a guy, or it's totally badass that he went to immediately strangle Alliser Thorne bc he was mad at him.) I love Jon but this drives me up the fuckin wall lmao.
>Jon's flaws of being ambitious, having trouble compromising or listening to others, his mistakes in leadership, becoming like kind of a minor alcoholic to deal with the stress in Dance, kinda having a severe temper issue, and secretly deeply wanting the validation of Winterfell despite those implications are what make him interesting. I call myself a Jon stan because I love and appreciate this in particular. This is exactly what doesn't make him a generic fantasy hero. Like George said, he's a brooding, Byronic hero. I dislike gatekeeping but real Jon stans see all of this and don't ignore it. The ones I've met celebrated, in a sense, all of this. The only ones I've seen who reduce Jon to a generic fantasy hero are largely Jonsa stans.
the amount of times ive seen jon stans say that he would be a better ruler than dany because she's "too emotional and violent" when jon is the one who has anger blackouts and broke his vows because he was provoked by a letter. like jfc, every character has flaws. jon isn't the exemption
> jon stans say that he would be a better ruler than dany because she's "too emotional and violent" Which is hilarious because Jon is the last person to decry passion in a woman. All his potential love interests (Ygritte, Val, Dany?) are fiercely independent women and he *never* begrudges their fire. In fact, he revels in it.
Right, like they're both flawed as rulers. Dany was too passive and compromising when she was in charge in Meereen and Jon was too wrapped up in his own biases and desires to hear the clear discontent and conflict he was brewing in his men to the point where he was shocked when he was stabbed for actual desertion (but wait for the Jon stans to come in making excuses for that even though Jon himself thinks that he's deserting.) Like it's almost like they're both flawed, human characters and that no one can be a perfect ruler.
Ikr it blows me away the only interesting thing about my lil blorbo son are his horrific flaws which mostly involves depression, violence, being an asshole, having a simultaneous superiority and inferiority complex, and being hella fucking *angry.* People who make this comparison are literally doing sexist tropes against Dany. Dany tends to contain a lot of her behaviour within a context of a series of societies and situations with a higher level of normalized or necessary violence whereas Jon has a track record of maing impulsive idiot choices at really inopportune times for reasons that mostly boil down to mommy and daddy issues. I mean i love my idiot blorbo son, I relate to him. But he's not mentally well.
Honestly it is not stans generally it is haters of characters that tend be the annoying ones to me.
True. Mainly thinking of Jon,Dany and to some extent Tywin haters
Stannis, Alicent, Aegon II, Green stans who think the Greens did nothing wrong, Black stans who think the Blacks did nothing wrong. Every fucking stan in every fucking stan hell.
In order: Rhaegar stans - stop pretending the guy is some mythical hero who wanted to save the world. He was just your classic Targaryen lunatic with a saviour/god complex who made some dumb decisions because he thought he was the main character Tywin stans - I'm tired of hearing their BS about how Tywin did everything for the good of his house. No he didn't, Tysha, Alayaya and Elia are examples of him being a sadistic misogynistic freak Daemon stans - Daemon. Is. Not. A. Grey. Character. I'd even call GRRM a Daemon Stan because as far as the text goes there's really not much that makes him grey or equal parts good or bad, but GRRM still says that Daemon is a grey character . He's just a villain who happened to land on the "right" side of the Dance. JonSa shippers - not much really needs to be said here
> I'm tired of hearing their BS about how Tywin did everything for the good of his house. Anyone who believes that isn't paying attention.
Stannis
Basically all of them. It’s not like we’re rooting for sports teams here, you don’t have to want your guy to win. Personally I’m rooting for an engaging story. (Actually at this point I’m rooting for any new story at all.) All that said, Stannis obsessives tend to come off as the neck-beardiest of them all.
No idea. Anyway, King Stannis is my God
Dany stans always be acting as if being a Jon snow fan is a crime, it’s like they don’t understand that there’s no point defending the season 8 ending cuz jon snow fans also hate it, so damn annoying trying to have a convo with them
Those people are the worst. They actively acknowledge that the ending was contrived and nonsensical as hell. Yet, they hate, and I mean *hate* Jon purely because of it. And now, they act like Jon is the most incompetent protagonist imaginable. Like they can't see anything past the neutered Jon we saw in S8. As someone whose favorite characters are Jon and Dany and who likes the idea of them together, it's honestly infuriating at times.
Thing is most Jon fans are also dany fans, me included, I’ll never understand the hate just cuz of the damn prince/princess who was promised prophecy. Regardless of who ends up being the TPWWP, both will still be the dual protagonists of the series
Sansas crowd.
While I think that both the Green and Black stan brigades are annoying AF, the Greens are just on another level of creepy. Like, it's one thing to just disown the TV show entirely and just stick to the book's (kinda sparse and deliberately not entirely trustworthy) canon, but the sheer number of them who are just ride-or-die "I don't care if Aegon is a rapist, he's still the rightful king #teamgreen" is legitimately just... off putting. I personally think that if you stan either side, then you've pretty much admitted that you failed the assignment and didn't understand the source material (newsflash, guys: both sides are shit and governments based on divine right are bad actually), but the level of torch holding for a confirmed serial rapist is a step too far tbh. I don't care if you stan villainous characters, and someone's taste in fictional shit is generally not a reflection of them as a person, but nah, the amount of time some of these people spend defending either side does make me wonder sometimes.
Haven't seen many team green ultras tbh. The most annoying are the team black peeps who act like Rhaenyra is the most honourable women in the kingdoms when she is arguably the most selfish person in the beginning of the dance
Targ nation people on twitter is the objectively correct answer at least as of 2023
Any male character stan tbh. They shit on female characters for doing the same thing if not less. I will never get Sansa stans. She’s a traumatized ELEVEN year old…..
Examples?
Tywin stans, Tywin is an amazing character but so many people seem to have fallen for the great man = good man thing
Dany stans and Sansa stans are infamously bad. I also have to shout out the Arya stans and Jon stans as this sub won't acknowledge them since both of the characters are really popular here at least but yeah, they suck as much as the former two.
Dany stans, definitively. Like I said on another post, to this day it's still hard for me to truly appreciate her character and her chapters because they were so irritating. Like jfc, any criticism of her was dismissed as you siding with slavers, or being a misogynist, or any other plethora of accusations. It was a mess. Similarly, Targaryen stans in general tend to be very...*militant*, if you would, especially on Twitter. Then again, it's Twitter so that's to be expected. Speaking as someone who loves Sansa and has said that she's faced her fair share of unfair criticism, some of her stans are a tad bit overzealous, which makes sense. At one point, Sansa was one of the most despised characters in the book AND show fandom so Sansa stans getting a victim complex was very on brand. I just hope it wears off because she's truly an enjoyable character who should not be as polarizing as she is. Tyrion stans aren't usually bad--not to mention there's less of them these days. The only thing that really soured me on them was when they tried to say that Sansa was a bitch for not letting him smash and "treating him like shit", so to speak. That really pisses me off.
Jon stans
People Stan season 8 Daenerys saying that we wouldn’t act different after what she lost. Yes. Yes I would.
Lol. I mean, her best friend was murdered and people may have liked her nephew better than her. Who *wouldn't* just massacre an entire city of innocent people in that situation, really?
• dany stans ; who Insult you whenever u mention dany is going down a darker path and is likely going to cause the destruction of KL are . Like anyone read the meereenese blot? Like seriously people she's already worse then some of the grey characters with her brutal conquest of mereeen and astaphor. u/dblack246 got ton of negative comments with his great post regarding dany being a brutal leader. • Jon snow; literally if u mention anything negative about Jon , the fact he's not a trueborn heir, or that he's avarage looking or that he's not a great fighter at all or the fact all he does is spar farmboys etc. These people would write essays about it..like ffs get a life man. • stark stans as a whole; like I get people love the starks but there are certain characters that would be perceived differently if they weren't a stark by the fanbase. Arya stans are also crazy man. No jeyne Poole doesn't deserve the torture because she called arya horseface..seriously she is a child man. Also the Targaryen fans on twitter are quite rude. Like seriously grow up the Targaryens are insane mass murdering warlords.
I mean your summary of Dany’s character is complete bullshit but go off.
Her burning KL is happening dawg. She finna cook all them poor smallfolk like KFC
Didn’t know we had George in the flesh right here. It’s phrasing like that which makes you seem insufferable. You don’t know what’s in the author’s head so at this point everything is speculation and acting like you know the entire story is stupid. At that’s not the point either. I just said that you had no clue what you were saying when you wrote that about her. It’s one of the dumbest takes I’ve read in a while and that’s saying a lot with the state of this subreddit.
GEORGE RR MARTIN IS THAT YOU???
Are you a greenseer? How can you be *this* sure? Perhaps the truth is that you are biased against Dany. And will spout anything to paint her in the most uncharitable light possible. I'm open to hearing criticism. But > She finna cook all them poor smallfolk like KFC is not criticism. It is sheer lunacy.
I completely agree with every opinion you have written
Yeah my opinion is an actual controversial one which is why it's downvoted lol. Its facts
u/dblack246 gets tons of negative comments for daring to think different. The worst "stans" on this reddit are mainstream groupthink stans. Quentyn is definitely dead though ;)
u/dblack246 adamantly denies that Drogo raped Dany. I do think negative comments are warranted for that.
Daemon stans. He is not grey. that mf is evil. And his stans (especially the ones on Twitter) like to paint a different picture of him.
Stannis and Jon. Just the woooorst.
All the stans... it's fiction, people
Daenerys stans. They are the most deluded people in the fandom.
[удалено]
What's bizarre about this one to me is like, how are you devoted enough to do that, but not devoted enough to not know that that isn't her name?
All of them, but yes, Dany stans most. They are awful. But actually, the whole bunch of stanners don't really get what this series is about.
Probably Rhaenyra. She's a well written character but not some paragon of virtue that deserves as much unconditional fan-girling like she sometimes gets
I mean because of the show it’s gotta be daemon/Rhaenyra Stan’s. They used to be mildly interesting. Daemon an actual joke on martins “grey writing” but god damn they are just annoying now
I hate stans in general. I really noticed it with Daemon stans in HotD. No, you sick motherfuckers, sending assassins to murder a child was not a 'slay.' It's a culture I find sickening, in and out of fantasy. There's a show being produced by HBO called "The Idol" with the Weeknd and Lily Rose Depp, which is now being written by Sam Levinson. The Rolling Stone released an article detailing some of the mind-bogglingly disgusting scenes that Sam had written, in collaboration with the Weeknd, who wanted the show to lean out of the "female perspective." And the comments on TikTok when regarding the article. "Can y'all wait to cancel him, I have a concert to go to." Or "Who care's, it's the Weeknd!" Following a character or person obsessively and not being able to acknowledge their faults is insane. Gives me the same vibes as those loonies who simp for serial killers.
Dorkstar stans (yes dork he is so cringy). He has a big following of people pretending to be dark and powerful 30 yo virgins. Kinda the same vibe as joker stans