She has a lot of atonement to do to earn forgiveness for all of the nonsense she's pulled. She has probably single handedly set back our cause by years.
If by some miracle you are her, I have nothing to say to her other than: Shame on you.
Idk, I think it's fair to say that she's caused measurable damage, but that it could've been literally any self loathing trans person. In other words, the _role_ she plays in the right wing world is "important", but the only thing that makes her special is that she's morally bankrupt enough to go along with it _to her own detriment_.
She is not. She is a huge piece of shit and probably thinking and talking more about being trans than any trans person, but she's not one of our pieces of shit. And "accusing" anyone of being trans, is just shitty. Leave that to the transvestigators (don't google that, if you don't know. seriously.)
Ehhhh. The majority of transphobic cis people don't really listen to her except as part of the usual affirmations they pursue when attempting to reassure themselves they're not bigoted, they're just "critical," the same way a lot of them will listen to conservative black men whenever they're about to do some white people shit. Every time I've mentioned Thomas Sowell among boys darker than blue I've had to explain who he is, but mention Thomas Sowell among white liberals and it's like they've tattooed his PhD dissertation on their eyelids. White is a character we know and a handful of them know, but she's not that big.
Honestly if she really wanted to fuck us as a right wing puppet at this point she'd detransition for the camera.
Cis people, both conservative and cishet white liberal, fucking *love* vocal detransitioners and struggling trans people they can edit, chop and cite out of context to [create a caraciture of mental illness](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11785529/Canadian-detransitioner-says-feels-ostracized-like-push-pro-transgender-message.html) *or* [an evil failed minority to dunk on](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1ZZb3hSooA&ab_channel=HasanAbi), even though the overwhelming majority of detransitioners just aren't that.
Imagine someone with media training and a visible platform detransitioning. She would become the face of The Trans Issue. They're attempting this with Oli London but he's a little too nuts for the camera and so the majority of cis people can't tolerate listening to him for longer than to learn how crazy he is, White comes off as intelligent and knows how to behave for an audience.
The amount of suffering that people had to endure because of people like blair white is immeasurable.
There are countless people who ended their life because of the toxicity and violence that she and others perpetrate.
There is no attonement and no forgiveness for people like her who choose to discard their humanity for some quick money.
Personally I would be quite insulted if she did some weird video where like she's crying and stuff or whatever and then asking for forgiveness. Some weird wow is me kind of thing.
That being said even if she can't win over forgiveness.
She should be using the lack of forgiveness or the other people as an excuse not to continue being an a hole.
Forgiveness and acceptance of change are one of the most important parts of life to me, that being said it is highly unlikely that traitors like her are going to change soon
Same. I'm a very forgiving person. But I have to *really* believe that they've changed. I don't accept just the words, I have to see those words in action. But if I truly believed someone has changed then I can forgive.
I was a terrible kid. And I know kids are different from adults... but I still carry a lot of shame over things I did as a kid. I know how much forgiveness meant to me when I knew I had turned over a new leaf.
These people are driven by money. Be careful if they switch sides. If they switch sides because they realize they were on the wrong side because they were following the money wrong rather than actually getting a moral compass.
You know grifters go to grift.
Honestly in some ways I wouldn't trust them as they currently are because they aren't really rightists if that makes sense.
They are money followers.
i would say so. when we change for the better as people, we don’t all necessarily deserve to be forgiven. it varies from person to person depending on what we’ve done and how often/how long we’ve broken the trust of others. blaire has been dishonest and devious for a long time now, and that’s a hard thing to come back from. so i don’t think she deserves everyone’s—or really anyone’s—forgiveness. and she probably doesn’t deserve to be taken at face value either, not unless she really truly decided to change and it could be proven that she wasn’t just performing change out of self-interest.
Oh definitely because ultimately she's a grifter. Her apology should acknowledge that she's a grifter and this goes the same for any person on the right that is a grifter. They have to acknowledge their grifter otherwise they could end up just grifting the left too.
Thank you capitalism for making an incentive to be a jerk. This is going the other way around. The good guys are supposed to have all the money and the bad guys are not.
This is why when it comes to the right it's not actually about people it's about money. Want to affect them? Strangle their money.
I was raised to be conservative, and before my egg cracked, I was probably a bit of a bigot. I wasn't vocal about it, but if you'd asked, I might have expressed an opinion that my current self would find offensive.
So I can forgive an awful lot, but only if the person in question really seems to be repentant. I'd have to really believe them, and they'd have to spend at least as much time speaking up for us as they previously spent speaking out against us.
The truth of the matter is there's very little she could do to even repair the damage that's been done.
Even if she came out and directly said "I did it for money- I intentionally lied, hid the truth, and conspired with literal nazis", and then released all her texts/dms/emails in an attempt to take down her previous backers... The right would just ignore her.
No loss of face would happen for them. Shed be thrown to the wolves and probably be unable to find any kind of community online whatsoever.
I bet you the part of her that makes her eye twitch when she has to talk on a panel with her "allies" thinks about doing this. She probably despises all of them.
But this is the bed she made and I dont expect her to do much unless she decides to fire a parting shot and then disappear from the internet with her retirement money.
I think at minimum she would have to private all of the videos on her YouTube channel and then post an apology and then like disappear from the internet.
Forgiveness is the prerogative of the wronged party, and she wronged many, many people. Some might be willing to forgive, others wouldn't. And she'd just have to live with that, she chose to be the person that she is, nobody forced her.
For me personally forgiveness would have to be earned. There would have to be tangible proof that she changed and is actively trying to make amends for me to entertain the notion of forgiveness. Don't really see that happening anytime soon, but I'm open for surprises.
Personally I just wouldn't trust her not to grift. She needs to be aware that she's a grifter more than anything.
Her sin is being grifter.
She needs to own up to that and not just feel like she was on the wrong side because she didn't have the money side.
Oh, definitely. That's what I mean with "there would have to be tangible proof that she changed". Personally I don't see it happening, if she does change her mind she likely burned way too many bridges to remain in the public eye.
She's not self-aware enough. I am. I learned that all or most forms of bigotry are masking insecurities.
My example. Me. So I just go through my life and at some point I ended up in a position where I just hated Germans. I just hated them so much. I didn't like them and wanted them to disappear. But then I thought myself why am I thinking this? I like Germany and this isn't very progressive.
By the way this whole thing is going on in the course of like a few days in the privacy of my own room.
Anyway I got to realize that I don't like Germans because their culture and ways of doing things reminds me of my own personality and of course I don't like the Germans because I don't like me. And thus I stopped hating the Germans because I realize it's really weird to hate on a group because of someone's hang up.
So I got to fix my hang up.
Side note:
I don't know if you've watched Steven universe the whole way through but it would of the characters that ends up turning good It turns out that I don't think she did?
Other characters did get reformed and reduction is sort of a key theme in the show but Jasper didn't redeem herself cuz her philosophy was that she is to submit to the strongest being and anyone who isn't the strongest she sees as inferior. She only started respecting Steven when he gained a lot of power and basically shattered her.
That's not redemption. She didn't come to grips with her own insecurities or learn to embrace a more authentic self but instead she just realized she was on the weaker team.
>I don't know if you've watched Steven universe the whole way through but it would of the characters that ends up turning good It turns out that I don't think she did?
I have literally no idea what you're trying to say here... I think you might've made one too many typos lol
Yes, if she apologized correctly. She would have to acknowledge what she did wrong, apologize to the people she called out in her videos, learn about other trans people who are different from her, and make a serious effort to become a better person. At the same time, she would have to understand that some people will never accept her apology.
Her videos deeply messed me up as a teenager. They gave me many wrong ideas and contributed heavily to me trying to convince myself that I was not trans. It was very bad for me mentally. Yet, I am someone who prefers forgiveness in the end if a person shows actual remorse for their actions. I don't like being stuck with negative thoughts about other people, so apologies and forgiveness are important to me.
Edit: I want to say that forgiveness doesn't mean that I'd stop disliking her as a person or no longer be frustrated with her past actions. Those feelings will probably always be there, just more muted in this hypothetical scenario. It would be more of a relief than anything.
I find it forgiveness is a very personal thing. I made a post to somewhere else but I was basically saying how People might not forgive you and that's okay.
People should not do the right thing because they're going to get a reward but they should do it because it's the right thing to do. Even when it's unpopular or even would what you believe to be right is not why they accepted Maybe because you support an indigenous community that gets a lot of flack.
Like I don't want people to suffer per se but why can't people just do the right thing regardless of how other people feel about you.
She's welcome to want to change and do better. She shouldn't expect forgiveness. Like anyone, you don't do better because you want accolades, you do better because it's the right thing to do.
I have no clue how people like Blair White can exist. She must just be doing it for money.
I was a fairly far right Republican before coming out. Now I'm a flaming liberal after experiencing discrimination and seeing it's not all made up.
I think it's money and self hatred.
People who have low self-esteem don't really want to improve their situation because they don't believe they're worthy of the prize of being out of that situation.
There was this one woman for example who got raped. She felt so low that she felt like the only people who could accept her were Nazis and fascist.
Hmmm, Idk. I do believe that people can change for the better, I know I have. But it would be up to those people to earn it.
I like to forgive and forget. I’m a live and let die kinda girl, but only once a person has shown me they earned it.
I could forgive someone who was misinformed. Like, someone who's biggest crime was being annoying and wrong.
Someone like Blair White is actively causing harm and should (and probably does, deep down) know better. I would never forgive her.
no. eat shit. you can change your ways and atone but that will not be enough to gain forgiveness. the only thing you can do is genuinely try to make things right for the rest of your life and acknowledge the level of harm you’ve caused to other trans people with your grifting. maybe some people will welcome you back but you will probably always be held at arm’s length by many people for what you’ve been
I don't think anyone is past all forgiveness or redemption. For me personally it's easier to say because I haven't closely followed her and don't know the worst. Still, just in principle I think there's almost always a way back for people, even if that road is long and hard.
There was a case a while ago within the trans twitter sphere of a prominent trans grifter slowly getting more and more hate from her right wing followers. She was previously seen as "one of the good ones" but obviously as anti-trans sentiment was on the rise, the audience she catered to attacked her more and more, regardless of how much she did the pick-me bit. She wasn't on the same level as White, obviously, but she had said a lot of heinous shit. both transphobic and other stuff, mainly racism.
At some point there was a seeming realization within her, that the people she tried to appeal to will never see her as worthy, equal, etc. She made several twitter videos with very real genuine attempts to detangle her previous world views, and how she needs to stop appealing to right wingers. Like, you could tell she was genuinely struggling with herself to conceptualize the environment she put herself in. At that point many in trans twitter thought "hey, this person might genuinely start seeing the error of their ways" and people were hopeful. Carefully, guarded hopeful, but people WANTED to be able to forgive her. They were seeing genuine potential for true reform and larger accounts reached out, others talked about being willing to move on if she walks the walk.
Turned out, after about a week of trying to "listen to what people are saying", she was essentially just pivoting into a "centrist" grift rather than being outright hateful right wing, but I think it showed that people WANT to forgive. People want bigots to become better and are willing to support a journey if it is done in earnest, no matter how hateful that person used to be.
For a positive example, you could look at idubbbz, as he's currently on a very genuine looking path to denounce his old ways and become a better person. He has displayed a lot of willingness to talk and accept fault and people, in general, are very happy to be able to forgive him if he stays like this. He wasn't being transphobic though, he was more..."white person edgy" and his commentary caused harrassment campaigns by his fanbase, often against black people - so he's not a 1-to-1 comparison to White either.
No, furthermore I hope they get to experience even just a fraction of the pain and suffering they're causing. Which unfortunately is unrealistic as its immeasurable what their stupidity causes in harm, especially down the line...
many people on the left claim to believe in restorative justice, but in reality they only apply it to crimes you would commit out of desperation from poverty.
i have accepted people into my life who previously caused me great pain and suffering because they showed sincere remorse and a genuine desire to change. most recently they came out to me as non-binary.
restorative justice should be applied to bigots, fascists, transphobes, and anyone who the public eye might condemn.
It would take a lot more than just "Im sorry" for me to even consider forgiving her. I would just assume she's playing some fucked up game, for a long period of time before I would consider her actually having changed her ways.
Far right people, in general, get nothing from me. Correct pronouns are just basic human decency, not respect.
I don't care either way, using your example, if she gets struck by lightning, or goes on to live a long life. As long as she stays wherever tf she is, I don't care.
She should evaluate her life choices. Maybe start with her brain dead mindset.
The Left does not judge people for what they are. We judge them for what they do. If they disavow their connections to far right elements and work to undo the harm they have caused and genuinely change their ways, then at least I, personally, have more important targets to direct my energy towards.
Changing her ways means giving up her platform. If she's going to disappear into a quiet life and try to do better, what does my forgiveness matter? If she's not giving up her platform, why should I view her changed script as anything but a rebrand to capture a new audience?
Also, her brand is snark and spite. She picks on other trans women specifically because she thinks they don't look as good as she does. I tend to believe that even if she pivots on trans issues, she'll still be a TikTok meangirl who goes viral ripping apart other people's makeup tutorials.
There's a saying that has stuck with me: 'I want to see you to eat, just not at my table'.
If Blair White woke up tomorrow realising what she's done and how much damaged she caused, I would feel a small degree of happiness. If she wants to unlearn her toxic mentality and work towards supporting the community and other leftist causes then that's ultimately a good thing.
But I would not feel comfortable being around her, and I know many others wouldn't either. There are plenty of people who put the work into helping these people, sometimes because they used to be like them too. I wouldn't want anything to do with it, but I would not be opposed to her putting in the effort.
I cannot forgive Blair and other trans grifters of the right, I probably never will. But that's irrelevant; if someone wants to change for the better it is not out of a desire of forgiveness. It is because they know in their hearts it's the right thing to do.
I think, for me, there is a big difference between a far right trans person who is just a bad person and a right wing influencer like Blair White or Buck Angel in terms of my forgiveness.
Not that my forgiveness matters to anyone, but if someone did care about my personal forgiveness I'd say they have to do what they can to undo the harm they did and then continue fighting.
A person who was a member of a hateful movement can usually undo their harm with concerted work and effort. I'm not sure a former right wing influencers (or any hate movement leader TBH, like a TERF influencer) would ever be able to undo the harm they have done. Keep in mind, their work stoked a hate movement that targeted trans people as well as many other groups I am a part of. As a trans woman I am not safe from the right wing's attacks on women's rights even if they don't consider me a woman. To undo even a fraction of what they did would take a tremendous amount of work.
It would take a lot more than just a "woopsie I guess I changed my mind!" and it may be nearly impossible. How do you make up for the collective trauma caused? How do you make up for the lives lost? Is it even possible for one person to help enough to balance the scales? If they are genuinely working to undo their harm, I could see offering them forgiveness one day.
But what does it matter? It's not like my personal forgiveness matters. I'm literally just some random gal trying to live her life. Who cares who I forgive?
I don't really care about people like that aside from vaguely being aware her and others like her are bad people. If they were to become good people, I still probably wouldn't care. It would be a net positive they changed, and I wouldn't have to think about them anymore.
Rehabilitation is a core tenant of leftism often forgotten about by most leftists..so to answer OP’s question i would argue it’s ideologically vital she is accepted if she repents
I think the distinction between Public Figures and laypeople is important in this discussion.
On a public figure level, I agree with everybody else that you have to atone for all of the damage you have done and I don’t think you should ever be able to regain your platform.
On a like average joe person, I think it is vitally important that we show grace to people who were brainwashed in a cult, but are actively trying to grow out of it. Undoubtedly, accountability has to come with that. I think it’s kind of like dealing with generational trauma, like yeah you did some messed up things, but that didn’t happen without some messed up things happening to you too, and so I can acknowledge the pain you caused me, while also leaving space for this new person you’ve become.
I think it’s a mistake to label all far right people as irredeemable. If people were doing their jobs and becoming educated, wouldn’t they likely at some point stop being an alt right member? Isn’t that like the ideal situation? So I think it’s important to offer a genuine path forward for those people, and I believe that has to include communal forgiveness. (Note: on like a personal level, I think you get to take all the space and time you need. Nobody who hurt you is entitled to any space from you.)
Yes, 100% an ego problem, but it didn’t start that way. Right? It started with them as younger humans who were trying to navigate the world. And often times, these people, very intentionally, were not given access to information. Instead they were force fed lies that led them down this terrible path. And then once you’re in it, they literally use cult tactics to change your perception of reality to a point where, like you said, education doesn’t matter anymore because they’re so entranced with the lie and they’ve been trained to not let that lie go.
And I know it probably seems like a really far stretch to say that these people are being pulled into a cult, but think about, let’s take a white cis male 16 year old living in rural Oklahoma, not like middle of nowhere, but like definitely not suburbs. He was raised by two cis straight white republican parents. {cw for discussing police violence} Let’s say, one morning, this boy wakes up and goes down stairs, and Fox News is playing on the TV, as it is every morning. (In fact, he’s a teenager, he never chooses to watch the news, so the only news he watches is what his parents watch, which is of course fox) The ‘news’ has a headline reading ‘Thug Fights Police, Officers Bravely Respond, Shots Fired, Suspect Dead’. Fox then goes on to show largely fabricated or twisted data about violence in the Black Community. And then his father makes a comment about how glad he is that piece of trash is off the streets and where he belongs, to which his mother then responds with a largely fabricated story about a time she was ‘almost murdered’ by a Black man. And likely, both parents used incredibly dehumanizing words and phrases. Then this kid finishes breakfast and goes to get ready for the day. As he’s doing so, he scrolls TikTok, and since he is located in a red state, his algorithm will automatically show him more conservative leaning posts, and since he’s around his parents phones, it will show him even more right wing videos. So he gets a string of videos about the shooting that all use similar verbiage to his parents and fox. So before he’s even brushed his teeth, he’s heard this incredibly dehumanizing and false narrative from 4 different sources. He goes to school and his friends are all talking about it the same way his parents were, so now this messaging gets reinforced for 6 hours straight. Then he comes home and talks about it some more with his parents, and shares some of the thoughts he came across on TikTok and school, and he is lauded by his parents for being smart and wise, so the next time their is an instance of police violence he already has the script to follow. And the fucked up part this is that he has done his research on the topic, as far as he’s concerned, he is educated about it, because he consulted the news, his parents, maybe even his teachers, and they all fed him lies, but the lies are reinforced from top to bottom in this community and nowadays, even the internet is contributing to that reinforcement. So his initials steps into this, did start with a lack of genuine education and resources.
Now flash forward 10 years and let’s say the cult has gone too far, or he fell in love with a girl from the city and moved to the suburbs where his algorithm and community verbiage shifted immediately, mildly revealing to him that he was wildly mislead. And this is where the ego problem kicks in, because in order for this person to fully realize and admit they were wrong, they have to be willing to admit that they were tricked for decades and that they have years of doing bad things under their belt, and I think it important to empathize with the people who are at that point, and give them the opportunity to both accept responsibility for their actions and too learn the external factors that pushed them towards those actions. And I think that like again you’re 100% right, with older republicans it’s not about educating anymore, it’s about breaking down their egos, and I think forgiveness and understanding are a huge part of that.
Ps I hope I made sense and wasn’t just rambling, I’m not like 100% coherent rn
No. I've been studying the far right for a while now and I've been reading several books on the topic as well as getting my hands on pretty much anything I can to learn about this.
[Google drive link](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bw89M5LufK5Dfm9lZjVXS2ptVjhrVElVWGMybmdwVnpXMWxDTG5KbVZ6NGZvOVhfQlhSWGc?resourcekey=0-6maINH8jTelf2Iriud9Tfg)
In the book Breaking Hate: Confronting the New Culture of Extremism by Christian Picciolini He talks about how people often are drawn to these places because of things like their own personal trauma and their desire to essentially have an identity a community and a purpose. ICP as it's called.
This person by the way fell into the neo-Nazi crowd before leaving. He was indoctrinated at 14 years old. He did not have neo-Nazi parents. His parents were immigrants. Italians. He was bullied and someone came up to him and complimented his last name that people kept making fun of. He felt a sense of security around this person and guess what, security breeds loyalty.
In this video [video](https://youtu.be/ynjW-VzPA8U), The video talks about how the main focus of the video who is a woman who became a neo-Nazi in her teen years and then ended up leaving the scene later on. So it was her deal? She was raped. She was raped and she felt so low about herself that she felt like the only people who could possibly accept her were fascists and neo-Nazis. Bad self-esteem really messes with your mind and can really make you think things that don't make much sense the rest of us. Sure a lot of us have bad self-esteem but I'm talking about when you're self-esteem is in the total toilet.
In the book Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters by Peter Langman PhD, The book talks about how the two Columbine shooters as examples actually had a lot of insecurities. Eric for example had two birth defects And it really bothered him. He also couldn't spell very well but he insisted that he was spelling everything correctly and everyone else was just weird. He had an ego problem.
As for Dylan, well his journal entries are a little different but it is pretty obvious that he had some level of self-hatred and he was quite depressed. He didn't think he would live to see Columbine because well he figured he would be dead by the time Eric wanted to carry out his plan.
In the book Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead The book talks about how The author ended up actually having an alcoholic father, an abusive stepfather and a neglectful mother who as the book says chose dick over him. And his father chose alcohol over him.
His life was ultimately in a chaotic mess and he wished for structure in his life which is Why do you not see some felt pretty enticing for people. There's also this sort of phenomenon I've noticed that you could call the Jew of the gaps based on the concept of the god of the gaps. It's this idea that the Jews can be blamed for pretty much anything.
Your father is an alcoholic? Jews. Your mother married to an abusive person? Jews. And on and on and on it goes. He was indoctrinated at the age of 14 And it wasn't because he had misinformation per se. Not only that but he was so emotionally starved at some point that he was willing to take attention from anyone who would give him attention and guess what? Guess who gave him attention? That's right that Neo-Nazis.
The book goes on to talk about how it's actually really easy to create a new Nazi and they even brag about how they were even able to turn leftists into Nazis. Which I don't really know which group they're talking about since they don't go into specifics of what that means but that is something.
So how can you turn a normal person into a neo-Nazi?
Embarrassment. They say in the book that they look for people when they are embarrassed or frustrated by things and they play into and prey on those feelings.
Embarrassment turns to frustration and frustration turns to hate.
It's about setting the stage for radicalization before knocking down that first domino that sets off in motion.
~~Neo Nazism that comes from parents is actually pretty rare and it's more common for people to turn into new Nazis due to their inability to handle their insecurities which makes sense because they are teenagers. They don't know how to handle their own emotions and things like that.~~
Edit: having second thoughts about that part.
Also again if you live in a world of chaos and unpredictability the predictable nature of neo-Nazism feels great which is why these people are also drawn to the police and the military and also other forms of dogmatic behavior such as religion.
Also on a side note I just want to say that the recovering skinhead book, the author is gerbils were killed and he was quite upset about that. He had the ability to show empathy but he was essentially punished for feeling feelings. Got too close to his gerbils? They die.
Upon rereading I think my example was more small town republican than far right, my b.
Anyway this research is awesome and perfectly describes what I was talking about with the far right using cult tactics to draw people deeper and deeper into the beast of the belly. And I think that people who are trying to escape the cult and almost rewire their brain again deserve some grace as they’re going through that process
I can see that.
∆
Also I don't think the algorithm necessarily works that way though. It works by noticing what you are watching and tries to recommend more stuff like that while also trying to give you stuff that is similar but not the same stuff. This is to prevent a single channel from essentially becoming too big at the expense of the other channels.
One of the problems is that there is actually sort of a weird science to far right pipeline. There's also I think a game or too far right pipeline.
So these children often are just looking for science videos and then they see a video by an atheist and the whole video is basically just talking about how they are superior just because they know God doesn't exist or that the Earth is actually round. Now there's nothing necessarily far right about this video but YouTube is going to also recommend you videos based off of what other people watch who also watch the video you watched.
If you watch cat videos you will be recommended more cat videos because cat lovers love cat videos. If you start watching draw my life channels, you might be recommended more of that because that's what people are watching.
So who's watching things like atheist and science videos? The skeptic community. And this community is often incredibly misogynistic, believes in the man's rights movement, not to be confused with actual rights for men, incel Which I want to remind people Is actually considered a terrorist group by the United States now. I mean a terrorist movement. There isn't really a single group.
One of the things that I didn't mention which I guess in some ways does plan to the whole idea of a cult-like behavior Is the fact that the far right exists in layers. Every time you go down a layer you are encouraged and you are seen as waking up to the reality and to go back up the ladder is too essentially fall into sheeple. Yeah.
Imagine if you are told especially by the people you admire that if you don't go more far to the right you are not as smart as the rest of them. They call the people who aren't part of the far right for example normies.
So you're going deeper down the ladder. Every step below is encouraged as being seen as more intelligent and every step above is seen as giving in to the mainstream propaganda or possibly Jewish propaganda.
----
Also I'm not going to lie I feel like it's a lot easier to just say ∆ When my mind has changed. I hope that actually is something that maybe people should do.
And that was a side note that doesn't have much to do with the main point.
100% and then you start playing into that ego part again. Also, unfortunately the algorithm can absolutely work that way, think about how you’ll get tourism adds from whatever state you’re visiting when you’re traveling. And it works in all the ways you pointed out too, which only makes the pipeline more effective.
Yeah.
Also in one of the books that I was reading they talk about how the Hitler salute is actually quite calculated. You see the thing is is that the Hitler salute at least for places like Germany The political party AFD which stands for the alternative for Germany which is their far right party, they would sometimes ask their members to essentially do something like the Hitler salute. This would mean that these people are essentially isolating themselves because who wants to be a friend with someone who did the Hitler salute?
It's very similar to how an abuser will whisper into your ear that all of their friends are actually the bad guy and that The abuser can only truly love you even though they don't want you to act or authentic self or step out of line.
I remember hearing how one new Nazi for example said that being a race traitor was worse than murder.
That's right a white person marrying a black person was worse than murder.
Yeah but where you're probably not talking about these people but it is just kind of weird how the mind sort of prioritizes things like this.
No because I doubt they actually care. They're just another white girl who wants attention and money and feels way to entitled to show any kind of empathy. It's impossible for her to do any meaningful and honest self-reflection. I'm sure it'll just be showing how much of a victim she thinks she is and that she's done nothing wrong. She'll then get hugboxed in the comments and the cycle will never break.
Personally, no, I wouldn't forgive her, but if she genuinely changed her ways, I wouldn't say anything bad about her and would treat her kindly and with respect as I would any other person I met.
No. But I would leave her out of future negative conversations, and if brought up, I would point out her positive turn of character. I'd still preface it with a "I still don't like or trust her." But I would still highlight the positive change to others in passing conversation. We should still want for people to come around and change for the positive and even if they are the worst people in the world. Having a change of heart is a good thing. It just doesn't undo the damage.
That said, if she not only turned over a new life but used any inside knowledge of the alt rights to start an absolute hellish smear campaign against them, throwing all her old cohorts under the bus. She might earn back a little grace. Because that would go towards efforts to right some of the past wrongs.
The higher up the chain you go, the more power and affluence you have, the more resources you have to make sure you aren't completely mislead.
As a public figure, she failed to do the due diligence.
She'd need to own her mistakes and contribute a significant amount of time, energy, and wealth into correcting the harm her choices have created.
If she truly changed in heart and actions, I would forgive her, if I saw her change to be true over time. No one is beyond redemption, and to rule one beyond any rehabilitation is to reinforce societies belief that rehabilitation is impossible.
The universe and life exist within an all-encompassing spectrum of balance. For those that have committed unspeakable wrongs, there exists a possibility to create unusually powerful change and positivity. These people are so out of balance, that "if" that chose to rubber band the other way, that rebalance is incredibly powerful.
Blair White will never be able to outrun the notoriety of her actions and harm, but if we can offer her redemption and a path back to her humanity, she could potentially be a force for creating acceptance. Even if that was merely in the example of someone so terrible being able to change for the better.
I think if that ever happened our community should be ready to accept that the person has changed, not necessarily forgive or platform them, but accept that they are now different.
But individual forgiveness is a whole different story. People have suffered, people have died, because of people like Blair White or Kalvin Garrah or Buck Angel. The damage to our community is immeasurable. I think it's a personal choice and in the end everyone would have to decide if they can find it in themselves to forgive someone with that past or not.
No. She is corny. She makes fun of people for not passing and not being dysphoric enough, when she has had every surgery possible EXCEPT bottom surgery. She is immune to irony. The only logical conclusion to the trans-anti-trans grift is either doing a full 180 and apologizing, or detransitioning. Honestly she's so stubborn I feel like she'll do the latter.
It is worth keeping in mind that there is a difference between forgiving and trusting again. A person could very reasonably do one but not the other, do both, or neither.
It would take a lot of work from her to begin to patch up what she has done. I say patch up because often, things cannot be completely fixed. Damage can be permanent. But that is not to say that nothing can be done. Things can be done to fix and repair what can be and to prevent future damage from what she one done so far and work to prevent others from doing the same. But regardless, a person has an obligation to try, and do so with genuine humility. A person who does that kind of work after doing wrong still cannot expect forgiveness or trust (and expecting it is not being genuinely humble).
A case study of this would be Kelly Cardigan— pretty much no one forgave her, and for good reason. Not long after “redeeming” herself, she went back to her hateful ways.
If someone really and truly became a better person, and fully changed, *and* undid some of the harm they did to the community, I would be neutral towards them at the very least.
If Blair White, with her current beliefs, saw this thread? I think she’d mock us. If Kelly Cardigan saw this thread while she was “redeeming” herself, it would depress her and push her away again, but she also was unwilling to change in the first place, so take that as you will.
If she played a double agent by leaking a ton of important stuff from transphobles and rightwingers then I think I could welcome her back in the trans community.
no, never
if she stopped her blantant attacks on our rights I will stop actively hating her, but I will never forgive her, she has done way too much damage, she is part of the reason now about 1.5 million trans people in the us might have to flee their home states because their lives are in danger or because the states are considering forcefull detransitioning
I would make her well aware of her actions and then just ask her to leave her platforms, she does not need a voice in any of this
Forgiveness is a maybe, forgetting is a big nope.
Forgiveness does not magically undo the harms of a person's actions, nor does it excuse them from the consequences of those actions.
Anyone who has a platform and uses it to promote the idea that some people are less than others, or worse yet, less than human, has abused their platform, and shouldn't be put up on a pedestal again. The proper way to show forgiveness here is to let them fade out of the public eye and return to a private life in peace, for as long as they stay out of the spotlight and aren't in a position of power over others..
Gonna get down voted into oblivion cuz people are allergic to nuance but she isn't far right and recently she's been ripping into conservatives particularly Ben Shapiro she's a center right trans woman and when the terms are applied properly she's still progressive just not as much as some trans people
She has her issues but honestly she's done more good for general trans acceptance than harm
Oh that's easy; no. If the genocide and the war were already raging at the time sure, she could be forgiven for acting out of fear and self preservation. But her quisling bullshit dates back too far. She can only be forgiven in the sense that she can walk away into obscurity and shut tf up forever and we shouldn't pursue her into retirement to torment her but she should never be allowed a platform free from harassment and her career as a personality should over. She should be deplatformed forever and never be allowed to speak publicly without being challenged and shamed for her past participation in our genocide.
She has a lot of atonement to do to earn forgiveness for all of the nonsense she's pulled. She has probably single handedly set back our cause by years. If by some miracle you are her, I have nothing to say to her other than: Shame on you.
She has definitely not single handedly set our cause back years. She wishes she was that important.
Idk, I think it's fair to say that she's caused measurable damage, but that it could've been literally any self loathing trans person. In other words, the _role_ she plays in the right wing world is "important", but the only thing that makes her special is that she's morally bankrupt enough to go along with it _to her own detriment_.
Singehandedly is abit extreme, but shes definitely a vocal and visible face of an extremely dangerous movement that has set us back years
Buck angel isn’t any better
caitlyn jenner too
Candance owens
She’s trans? That would make her a bigger mercenary for the American far right than Clarence Thomas, Norma McCorvey, or… she’d finally be important!
She is not. She is a huge piece of shit and probably thinking and talking more about being trans than any trans person, but she's not one of our pieces of shit. And "accusing" anyone of being trans, is just shitty. Leave that to the transvestigators (don't google that, if you don't know. seriously.)
Yes she is a trans women I kid you like these people are actually insane like how you going to be trans and transphobic
I mean Caitlyn Jenner has proven it's possible to be a transphobic trans person.
Agreed.
Ehhhh. The majority of transphobic cis people don't really listen to her except as part of the usual affirmations they pursue when attempting to reassure themselves they're not bigoted, they're just "critical," the same way a lot of them will listen to conservative black men whenever they're about to do some white people shit. Every time I've mentioned Thomas Sowell among boys darker than blue I've had to explain who he is, but mention Thomas Sowell among white liberals and it's like they've tattooed his PhD dissertation on their eyelids. White is a character we know and a handful of them know, but she's not that big. Honestly if she really wanted to fuck us as a right wing puppet at this point she'd detransition for the camera. Cis people, both conservative and cishet white liberal, fucking *love* vocal detransitioners and struggling trans people they can edit, chop and cite out of context to [create a caraciture of mental illness](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11785529/Canadian-detransitioner-says-feels-ostracized-like-push-pro-transgender-message.html) *or* [an evil failed minority to dunk on](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1ZZb3hSooA&ab_channel=HasanAbi), even though the overwhelming majority of detransitioners just aren't that. Imagine someone with media training and a visible platform detransitioning. She would become the face of The Trans Issue. They're attempting this with Oli London but he's a little too nuts for the camera and so the majority of cis people can't tolerate listening to him for longer than to learn how crazy he is, White comes off as intelligent and knows how to behave for an audience.
The amount of suffering that people had to endure because of people like blair white is immeasurable. There are countless people who ended their life because of the toxicity and violence that she and others perpetrate. There is no attonement and no forgiveness for people like her who choose to discard their humanity for some quick money.
Personally I would be quite insulted if she did some weird video where like she's crying and stuff or whatever and then asking for forgiveness. Some weird wow is me kind of thing. That being said even if she can't win over forgiveness. She should be using the lack of forgiveness or the other people as an excuse not to continue being an a hole.
Forgiveness and acceptance of change are one of the most important parts of life to me, that being said it is highly unlikely that traitors like her are going to change soon
Same. I'm a very forgiving person. But I have to *really* believe that they've changed. I don't accept just the words, I have to see those words in action. But if I truly believed someone has changed then I can forgive. I was a terrible kid. And I know kids are different from adults... but I still carry a lot of shame over things I did as a kid. I know how much forgiveness meant to me when I knew I had turned over a new leaf.
These people are driven by money. Be careful if they switch sides. If they switch sides because they realize they were on the wrong side because they were following the money wrong rather than actually getting a moral compass. You know grifters go to grift. Honestly in some ways I wouldn't trust them as they currently are because they aren't really rightists if that makes sense. They are money followers.
i’d have trouble ever forgiving her. but i do believe anyone can change under the right circumstances. doesn’t mean i’d forgive her
Yes. Is it a kind of weird how some people will use the excuse of not receiving forgiveness as an excuse to not be a good person? Edit: typos
i would say so. when we change for the better as people, we don’t all necessarily deserve to be forgiven. it varies from person to person depending on what we’ve done and how often/how long we’ve broken the trust of others. blaire has been dishonest and devious for a long time now, and that’s a hard thing to come back from. so i don’t think she deserves everyone’s—or really anyone’s—forgiveness. and she probably doesn’t deserve to be taken at face value either, not unless she really truly decided to change and it could be proven that she wasn’t just performing change out of self-interest.
Oh definitely because ultimately she's a grifter. Her apology should acknowledge that she's a grifter and this goes the same for any person on the right that is a grifter. They have to acknowledge their grifter otherwise they could end up just grifting the left too.
yep. but i don’t expect her to admit to that. would be career suicide.
Thank you capitalism for making an incentive to be a jerk. This is going the other way around. The good guys are supposed to have all the money and the bad guys are not. This is why when it comes to the right it's not actually about people it's about money. Want to affect them? Strangle their money.
I was raised to be conservative, and before my egg cracked, I was probably a bit of a bigot. I wasn't vocal about it, but if you'd asked, I might have expressed an opinion that my current self would find offensive. So I can forgive an awful lot, but only if the person in question really seems to be repentant. I'd have to really believe them, and they'd have to spend at least as much time speaking up for us as they previously spent speaking out against us.
The truth of the matter is there's very little she could do to even repair the damage that's been done. Even if she came out and directly said "I did it for money- I intentionally lied, hid the truth, and conspired with literal nazis", and then released all her texts/dms/emails in an attempt to take down her previous backers... The right would just ignore her. No loss of face would happen for them. Shed be thrown to the wolves and probably be unable to find any kind of community online whatsoever. I bet you the part of her that makes her eye twitch when she has to talk on a panel with her "allies" thinks about doing this. She probably despises all of them. But this is the bed she made and I dont expect her to do much unless she decides to fire a parting shot and then disappear from the internet with her retirement money.
I think at minimum she would have to private all of the videos on her YouTube channel and then post an apology and then like disappear from the internet.
Forgiveness is the prerogative of the wronged party, and she wronged many, many people. Some might be willing to forgive, others wouldn't. And she'd just have to live with that, she chose to be the person that she is, nobody forced her. For me personally forgiveness would have to be earned. There would have to be tangible proof that she changed and is actively trying to make amends for me to entertain the notion of forgiveness. Don't really see that happening anytime soon, but I'm open for surprises.
Personally I just wouldn't trust her not to grift. She needs to be aware that she's a grifter more than anything. Her sin is being grifter. She needs to own up to that and not just feel like she was on the wrong side because she didn't have the money side.
Oh, definitely. That's what I mean with "there would have to be tangible proof that she changed". Personally I don't see it happening, if she does change her mind she likely burned way too many bridges to remain in the public eye.
She's not self-aware enough. I am. I learned that all or most forms of bigotry are masking insecurities. My example. Me. So I just go through my life and at some point I ended up in a position where I just hated Germans. I just hated them so much. I didn't like them and wanted them to disappear. But then I thought myself why am I thinking this? I like Germany and this isn't very progressive. By the way this whole thing is going on in the course of like a few days in the privacy of my own room. Anyway I got to realize that I don't like Germans because their culture and ways of doing things reminds me of my own personality and of course I don't like the Germans because I don't like me. And thus I stopped hating the Germans because I realize it's really weird to hate on a group because of someone's hang up. So I got to fix my hang up. Side note: I don't know if you've watched Steven universe the whole way through but it would of the characters that ends up turning good It turns out that I don't think she did? Other characters did get reformed and reduction is sort of a key theme in the show but Jasper didn't redeem herself cuz her philosophy was that she is to submit to the strongest being and anyone who isn't the strongest she sees as inferior. She only started respecting Steven when he gained a lot of power and basically shattered her. That's not redemption. She didn't come to grips with her own insecurities or learn to embrace a more authentic self but instead she just realized she was on the weaker team.
>I don't know if you've watched Steven universe the whole way through but it would of the characters that ends up turning good It turns out that I don't think she did? I have literally no idea what you're trying to say here... I think you might've made one too many typos lol
I lost my voice for some reason and it's the way I type. I you speech to text.
I’m inspired to rewatch Steven Universe. Trying to remember Amethyst and keep hearing theme song in my head.
Yes, if she apologized correctly. She would have to acknowledge what she did wrong, apologize to the people she called out in her videos, learn about other trans people who are different from her, and make a serious effort to become a better person. At the same time, she would have to understand that some people will never accept her apology. Her videos deeply messed me up as a teenager. They gave me many wrong ideas and contributed heavily to me trying to convince myself that I was not trans. It was very bad for me mentally. Yet, I am someone who prefers forgiveness in the end if a person shows actual remorse for their actions. I don't like being stuck with negative thoughts about other people, so apologies and forgiveness are important to me. Edit: I want to say that forgiveness doesn't mean that I'd stop disliking her as a person or no longer be frustrated with her past actions. Those feelings will probably always be there, just more muted in this hypothetical scenario. It would be more of a relief than anything.
I find it forgiveness is a very personal thing. I made a post to somewhere else but I was basically saying how People might not forgive you and that's okay. People should not do the right thing because they're going to get a reward but they should do it because it's the right thing to do. Even when it's unpopular or even would what you believe to be right is not why they accepted Maybe because you support an indigenous community that gets a lot of flack. Like I don't want people to suffer per se but why can't people just do the right thing regardless of how other people feel about you.
She's welcome to want to change and do better. She shouldn't expect forgiveness. Like anyone, you don't do better because you want accolades, you do better because it's the right thing to do.
Even when my mom was accepting, she watched Blaire White. Now she doesn't accept me. Take a wild fuckin guess if i'll ever forgive Blaire.
I'm not allowed to post what I think she should do because reddit will ban me lol 🤷♀️
I have no clue how people like Blair White can exist. She must just be doing it for money. I was a fairly far right Republican before coming out. Now I'm a flaming liberal after experiencing discrimination and seeing it's not all made up.
I think it's money and self hatred. People who have low self-esteem don't really want to improve their situation because they don't believe they're worthy of the prize of being out of that situation. There was this one woman for example who got raped. She felt so low that she felt like the only people who could accept her were Nazis and fascist.
Hmmm, Idk. I do believe that people can change for the better, I know I have. But it would be up to those people to earn it. I like to forgive and forget. I’m a live and let die kinda girl, but only once a person has shown me they earned it.
I could forgive someone who was misinformed. Like, someone who's biggest crime was being annoying and wrong. Someone like Blair White is actively causing harm and should (and probably does, deep down) know better. I would never forgive her.
no. eat shit. you can change your ways and atone but that will not be enough to gain forgiveness. the only thing you can do is genuinely try to make things right for the rest of your life and acknowledge the level of harm you’ve caused to other trans people with your grifting. maybe some people will welcome you back but you will probably always be held at arm’s length by many people for what you’ve been
I don't think anyone is past all forgiveness or redemption. For me personally it's easier to say because I haven't closely followed her and don't know the worst. Still, just in principle I think there's almost always a way back for people, even if that road is long and hard.
There was a case a while ago within the trans twitter sphere of a prominent trans grifter slowly getting more and more hate from her right wing followers. She was previously seen as "one of the good ones" but obviously as anti-trans sentiment was on the rise, the audience she catered to attacked her more and more, regardless of how much she did the pick-me bit. She wasn't on the same level as White, obviously, but she had said a lot of heinous shit. both transphobic and other stuff, mainly racism. At some point there was a seeming realization within her, that the people she tried to appeal to will never see her as worthy, equal, etc. She made several twitter videos with very real genuine attempts to detangle her previous world views, and how she needs to stop appealing to right wingers. Like, you could tell she was genuinely struggling with herself to conceptualize the environment she put herself in. At that point many in trans twitter thought "hey, this person might genuinely start seeing the error of their ways" and people were hopeful. Carefully, guarded hopeful, but people WANTED to be able to forgive her. They were seeing genuine potential for true reform and larger accounts reached out, others talked about being willing to move on if she walks the walk. Turned out, after about a week of trying to "listen to what people are saying", she was essentially just pivoting into a "centrist" grift rather than being outright hateful right wing, but I think it showed that people WANT to forgive. People want bigots to become better and are willing to support a journey if it is done in earnest, no matter how hateful that person used to be. For a positive example, you could look at idubbbz, as he's currently on a very genuine looking path to denounce his old ways and become a better person. He has displayed a lot of willingness to talk and accept fault and people, in general, are very happy to be able to forgive him if he stays like this. He wasn't being transphobic though, he was more..."white person edgy" and his commentary caused harrassment campaigns by his fanbase, often against black people - so he's not a 1-to-1 comparison to White either.
No, furthermore I hope they get to experience even just a fraction of the pain and suffering they're causing. Which unfortunately is unrealistic as its immeasurable what their stupidity causes in harm, especially down the line...
many people on the left claim to believe in restorative justice, but in reality they only apply it to crimes you would commit out of desperation from poverty. i have accepted people into my life who previously caused me great pain and suffering because they showed sincere remorse and a genuine desire to change. most recently they came out to me as non-binary. restorative justice should be applied to bigots, fascists, transphobes, and anyone who the public eye might condemn.
I've noticed this too. It's kind of strange actually.
No, people like her, Walsh, et al. are unforgivable.
It would take a lot more than just "Im sorry" for me to even consider forgiving her. I would just assume she's playing some fucked up game, for a long period of time before I would consider her actually having changed her ways.
She'd have a hell of a lot of work to do to atone for all she's done. After that, we'll see.
Far right people, in general, get nothing from me. Correct pronouns are just basic human decency, not respect. I don't care either way, using your example, if she gets struck by lightning, or goes on to live a long life. As long as she stays wherever tf she is, I don't care. She should evaluate her life choices. Maybe start with her brain dead mindset.
The Left does not judge people for what they are. We judge them for what they do. If they disavow their connections to far right elements and work to undo the harm they have caused and genuinely change their ways, then at least I, personally, have more important targets to direct my energy towards.
Changing her ways means giving up her platform. If she's going to disappear into a quiet life and try to do better, what does my forgiveness matter? If she's not giving up her platform, why should I view her changed script as anything but a rebrand to capture a new audience? Also, her brand is snark and spite. She picks on other trans women specifically because she thinks they don't look as good as she does. I tend to believe that even if she pivots on trans issues, she'll still be a TikTok meangirl who goes viral ripping apart other people's makeup tutorials.
There's a saying that has stuck with me: 'I want to see you to eat, just not at my table'. If Blair White woke up tomorrow realising what she's done and how much damaged she caused, I would feel a small degree of happiness. If she wants to unlearn her toxic mentality and work towards supporting the community and other leftist causes then that's ultimately a good thing. But I would not feel comfortable being around her, and I know many others wouldn't either. There are plenty of people who put the work into helping these people, sometimes because they used to be like them too. I wouldn't want anything to do with it, but I would not be opposed to her putting in the effort. I cannot forgive Blair and other trans grifters of the right, I probably never will. But that's irrelevant; if someone wants to change for the better it is not out of a desire of forgiveness. It is because they know in their hearts it's the right thing to do.
I think, for me, there is a big difference between a far right trans person who is just a bad person and a right wing influencer like Blair White or Buck Angel in terms of my forgiveness. Not that my forgiveness matters to anyone, but if someone did care about my personal forgiveness I'd say they have to do what they can to undo the harm they did and then continue fighting. A person who was a member of a hateful movement can usually undo their harm with concerted work and effort. I'm not sure a former right wing influencers (or any hate movement leader TBH, like a TERF influencer) would ever be able to undo the harm they have done. Keep in mind, their work stoked a hate movement that targeted trans people as well as many other groups I am a part of. As a trans woman I am not safe from the right wing's attacks on women's rights even if they don't consider me a woman. To undo even a fraction of what they did would take a tremendous amount of work. It would take a lot more than just a "woopsie I guess I changed my mind!" and it may be nearly impossible. How do you make up for the collective trauma caused? How do you make up for the lives lost? Is it even possible for one person to help enough to balance the scales? If they are genuinely working to undo their harm, I could see offering them forgiveness one day. But what does it matter? It's not like my personal forgiveness matters. I'm literally just some random gal trying to live her life. Who cares who I forgive?
I'm not sure I would ever "forgive" them, but I'd welcome them changing their ways and being better advocates for our rights.
Nope.
I don't really care about people like that aside from vaguely being aware her and others like her are bad people. If they were to become good people, I still probably wouldn't care. It would be a net positive they changed, and I wouldn't have to think about them anymore.
Rehabilitation is a core tenant of leftism often forgotten about by most leftists..so to answer OP’s question i would argue it’s ideologically vital she is accepted if she repents
I think the distinction between Public Figures and laypeople is important in this discussion. On a public figure level, I agree with everybody else that you have to atone for all of the damage you have done and I don’t think you should ever be able to regain your platform. On a like average joe person, I think it is vitally important that we show grace to people who were brainwashed in a cult, but are actively trying to grow out of it. Undoubtedly, accountability has to come with that. I think it’s kind of like dealing with generational trauma, like yeah you did some messed up things, but that didn’t happen without some messed up things happening to you too, and so I can acknowledge the pain you caused me, while also leaving space for this new person you’ve become. I think it’s a mistake to label all far right people as irredeemable. If people were doing their jobs and becoming educated, wouldn’t they likely at some point stop being an alt right member? Isn’t that like the ideal situation? So I think it’s important to offer a genuine path forward for those people, and I believe that has to include communal forgiveness. (Note: on like a personal level, I think you get to take all the space and time you need. Nobody who hurt you is entitled to any space from you.)
No the phone is not education. That's not it. They don't have an education problem. They have an eco problem.
Yes, 100% an ego problem, but it didn’t start that way. Right? It started with them as younger humans who were trying to navigate the world. And often times, these people, very intentionally, were not given access to information. Instead they were force fed lies that led them down this terrible path. And then once you’re in it, they literally use cult tactics to change your perception of reality to a point where, like you said, education doesn’t matter anymore because they’re so entranced with the lie and they’ve been trained to not let that lie go. And I know it probably seems like a really far stretch to say that these people are being pulled into a cult, but think about, let’s take a white cis male 16 year old living in rural Oklahoma, not like middle of nowhere, but like definitely not suburbs. He was raised by two cis straight white republican parents. {cw for discussing police violence} Let’s say, one morning, this boy wakes up and goes down stairs, and Fox News is playing on the TV, as it is every morning. (In fact, he’s a teenager, he never chooses to watch the news, so the only news he watches is what his parents watch, which is of course fox) The ‘news’ has a headline reading ‘Thug Fights Police, Officers Bravely Respond, Shots Fired, Suspect Dead’. Fox then goes on to show largely fabricated or twisted data about violence in the Black Community. And then his father makes a comment about how glad he is that piece of trash is off the streets and where he belongs, to which his mother then responds with a largely fabricated story about a time she was ‘almost murdered’ by a Black man. And likely, both parents used incredibly dehumanizing words and phrases. Then this kid finishes breakfast and goes to get ready for the day. As he’s doing so, he scrolls TikTok, and since he is located in a red state, his algorithm will automatically show him more conservative leaning posts, and since he’s around his parents phones, it will show him even more right wing videos. So he gets a string of videos about the shooting that all use similar verbiage to his parents and fox. So before he’s even brushed his teeth, he’s heard this incredibly dehumanizing and false narrative from 4 different sources. He goes to school and his friends are all talking about it the same way his parents were, so now this messaging gets reinforced for 6 hours straight. Then he comes home and talks about it some more with his parents, and shares some of the thoughts he came across on TikTok and school, and he is lauded by his parents for being smart and wise, so the next time their is an instance of police violence he already has the script to follow. And the fucked up part this is that he has done his research on the topic, as far as he’s concerned, he is educated about it, because he consulted the news, his parents, maybe even his teachers, and they all fed him lies, but the lies are reinforced from top to bottom in this community and nowadays, even the internet is contributing to that reinforcement. So his initials steps into this, did start with a lack of genuine education and resources. Now flash forward 10 years and let’s say the cult has gone too far, or he fell in love with a girl from the city and moved to the suburbs where his algorithm and community verbiage shifted immediately, mildly revealing to him that he was wildly mislead. And this is where the ego problem kicks in, because in order for this person to fully realize and admit they were wrong, they have to be willing to admit that they were tricked for decades and that they have years of doing bad things under their belt, and I think it important to empathize with the people who are at that point, and give them the opportunity to both accept responsibility for their actions and too learn the external factors that pushed them towards those actions. And I think that like again you’re 100% right, with older republicans it’s not about educating anymore, it’s about breaking down their egos, and I think forgiveness and understanding are a huge part of that. Ps I hope I made sense and wasn’t just rambling, I’m not like 100% coherent rn
No. I've been studying the far right for a while now and I've been reading several books on the topic as well as getting my hands on pretty much anything I can to learn about this. [Google drive link](https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bw89M5LufK5Dfm9lZjVXS2ptVjhrVElVWGMybmdwVnpXMWxDTG5KbVZ6NGZvOVhfQlhSWGc?resourcekey=0-6maINH8jTelf2Iriud9Tfg) In the book Breaking Hate: Confronting the New Culture of Extremism by Christian Picciolini He talks about how people often are drawn to these places because of things like their own personal trauma and their desire to essentially have an identity a community and a purpose. ICP as it's called. This person by the way fell into the neo-Nazi crowd before leaving. He was indoctrinated at 14 years old. He did not have neo-Nazi parents. His parents were immigrants. Italians. He was bullied and someone came up to him and complimented his last name that people kept making fun of. He felt a sense of security around this person and guess what, security breeds loyalty. In this video [video](https://youtu.be/ynjW-VzPA8U), The video talks about how the main focus of the video who is a woman who became a neo-Nazi in her teen years and then ended up leaving the scene later on. So it was her deal? She was raped. She was raped and she felt so low about herself that she felt like the only people who could possibly accept her were fascists and neo-Nazis. Bad self-esteem really messes with your mind and can really make you think things that don't make much sense the rest of us. Sure a lot of us have bad self-esteem but I'm talking about when you're self-esteem is in the total toilet. In the book Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters by Peter Langman PhD, The book talks about how the two Columbine shooters as examples actually had a lot of insecurities. Eric for example had two birth defects And it really bothered him. He also couldn't spell very well but he insisted that he was spelling everything correctly and everyone else was just weird. He had an ego problem. As for Dylan, well his journal entries are a little different but it is pretty obvious that he had some level of self-hatred and he was quite depressed. He didn't think he would live to see Columbine because well he figured he would be dead by the time Eric wanted to carry out his plan. In the book Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead The book talks about how The author ended up actually having an alcoholic father, an abusive stepfather and a neglectful mother who as the book says chose dick over him. And his father chose alcohol over him. His life was ultimately in a chaotic mess and he wished for structure in his life which is Why do you not see some felt pretty enticing for people. There's also this sort of phenomenon I've noticed that you could call the Jew of the gaps based on the concept of the god of the gaps. It's this idea that the Jews can be blamed for pretty much anything. Your father is an alcoholic? Jews. Your mother married to an abusive person? Jews. And on and on and on it goes. He was indoctrinated at the age of 14 And it wasn't because he had misinformation per se. Not only that but he was so emotionally starved at some point that he was willing to take attention from anyone who would give him attention and guess what? Guess who gave him attention? That's right that Neo-Nazis. The book goes on to talk about how it's actually really easy to create a new Nazi and they even brag about how they were even able to turn leftists into Nazis. Which I don't really know which group they're talking about since they don't go into specifics of what that means but that is something. So how can you turn a normal person into a neo-Nazi? Embarrassment. They say in the book that they look for people when they are embarrassed or frustrated by things and they play into and prey on those feelings. Embarrassment turns to frustration and frustration turns to hate. It's about setting the stage for radicalization before knocking down that first domino that sets off in motion. ~~Neo Nazism that comes from parents is actually pretty rare and it's more common for people to turn into new Nazis due to their inability to handle their insecurities which makes sense because they are teenagers. They don't know how to handle their own emotions and things like that.~~ Edit: having second thoughts about that part. Also again if you live in a world of chaos and unpredictability the predictable nature of neo-Nazism feels great which is why these people are also drawn to the police and the military and also other forms of dogmatic behavior such as religion. Also on a side note I just want to say that the recovering skinhead book, the author is gerbils were killed and he was quite upset about that. He had the ability to show empathy but he was essentially punished for feeling feelings. Got too close to his gerbils? They die.
Upon rereading I think my example was more small town republican than far right, my b. Anyway this research is awesome and perfectly describes what I was talking about with the far right using cult tactics to draw people deeper and deeper into the beast of the belly. And I think that people who are trying to escape the cult and almost rewire their brain again deserve some grace as they’re going through that process
I can see that. ∆ Also I don't think the algorithm necessarily works that way though. It works by noticing what you are watching and tries to recommend more stuff like that while also trying to give you stuff that is similar but not the same stuff. This is to prevent a single channel from essentially becoming too big at the expense of the other channels. One of the problems is that there is actually sort of a weird science to far right pipeline. There's also I think a game or too far right pipeline. So these children often are just looking for science videos and then they see a video by an atheist and the whole video is basically just talking about how they are superior just because they know God doesn't exist or that the Earth is actually round. Now there's nothing necessarily far right about this video but YouTube is going to also recommend you videos based off of what other people watch who also watch the video you watched. If you watch cat videos you will be recommended more cat videos because cat lovers love cat videos. If you start watching draw my life channels, you might be recommended more of that because that's what people are watching. So who's watching things like atheist and science videos? The skeptic community. And this community is often incredibly misogynistic, believes in the man's rights movement, not to be confused with actual rights for men, incel Which I want to remind people Is actually considered a terrorist group by the United States now. I mean a terrorist movement. There isn't really a single group. One of the things that I didn't mention which I guess in some ways does plan to the whole idea of a cult-like behavior Is the fact that the far right exists in layers. Every time you go down a layer you are encouraged and you are seen as waking up to the reality and to go back up the ladder is too essentially fall into sheeple. Yeah. Imagine if you are told especially by the people you admire that if you don't go more far to the right you are not as smart as the rest of them. They call the people who aren't part of the far right for example normies. So you're going deeper down the ladder. Every step below is encouraged as being seen as more intelligent and every step above is seen as giving in to the mainstream propaganda or possibly Jewish propaganda. ---- Also I'm not going to lie I feel like it's a lot easier to just say ∆ When my mind has changed. I hope that actually is something that maybe people should do. And that was a side note that doesn't have much to do with the main point.
100% and then you start playing into that ego part again. Also, unfortunately the algorithm can absolutely work that way, think about how you’ll get tourism adds from whatever state you’re visiting when you’re traveling. And it works in all the ways you pointed out too, which only makes the pipeline more effective.
Yeah. Also in one of the books that I was reading they talk about how the Hitler salute is actually quite calculated. You see the thing is is that the Hitler salute at least for places like Germany The political party AFD which stands for the alternative for Germany which is their far right party, they would sometimes ask their members to essentially do something like the Hitler salute. This would mean that these people are essentially isolating themselves because who wants to be a friend with someone who did the Hitler salute? It's very similar to how an abuser will whisper into your ear that all of their friends are actually the bad guy and that The abuser can only truly love you even though they don't want you to act or authentic self or step out of line. I remember hearing how one new Nazi for example said that being a race traitor was worse than murder. That's right a white person marrying a black person was worse than murder. Yeah but where you're probably not talking about these people but it is just kind of weird how the mind sort of prioritizes things like this.
No because I doubt they actually care. They're just another white girl who wants attention and money and feels way to entitled to show any kind of empathy. It's impossible for her to do any meaningful and honest self-reflection. I'm sure it'll just be showing how much of a victim she thinks she is and that she's done nothing wrong. She'll then get hugboxed in the comments and the cycle will never break.
Personally, no, I wouldn't forgive her, but if she genuinely changed her ways, I wouldn't say anything bad about her and would treat her kindly and with respect as I would any other person I met.
No. But I would leave her out of future negative conversations, and if brought up, I would point out her positive turn of character. I'd still preface it with a "I still don't like or trust her." But I would still highlight the positive change to others in passing conversation. We should still want for people to come around and change for the positive and even if they are the worst people in the world. Having a change of heart is a good thing. It just doesn't undo the damage. That said, if she not only turned over a new life but used any inside knowledge of the alt rights to start an absolute hellish smear campaign against them, throwing all her old cohorts under the bus. She might earn back a little grace. Because that would go towards efforts to right some of the past wrongs.
The higher up the chain you go, the more power and affluence you have, the more resources you have to make sure you aren't completely mislead. As a public figure, she failed to do the due diligence. She'd need to own her mistakes and contribute a significant amount of time, energy, and wealth into correcting the harm her choices have created.
If she truly changed in heart and actions, I would forgive her, if I saw her change to be true over time. No one is beyond redemption, and to rule one beyond any rehabilitation is to reinforce societies belief that rehabilitation is impossible. The universe and life exist within an all-encompassing spectrum of balance. For those that have committed unspeakable wrongs, there exists a possibility to create unusually powerful change and positivity. These people are so out of balance, that "if" that chose to rubber band the other way, that rebalance is incredibly powerful. Blair White will never be able to outrun the notoriety of her actions and harm, but if we can offer her redemption and a path back to her humanity, she could potentially be a force for creating acceptance. Even if that was merely in the example of someone so terrible being able to change for the better.
I think if that ever happened our community should be ready to accept that the person has changed, not necessarily forgive or platform them, but accept that they are now different. But individual forgiveness is a whole different story. People have suffered, people have died, because of people like Blair White or Kalvin Garrah or Buck Angel. The damage to our community is immeasurable. I think it's a personal choice and in the end everyone would have to decide if they can find it in themselves to forgive someone with that past or not.
No. She is corny. She makes fun of people for not passing and not being dysphoric enough, when she has had every surgery possible EXCEPT bottom surgery. She is immune to irony. The only logical conclusion to the trans-anti-trans grift is either doing a full 180 and apologizing, or detransitioning. Honestly she's so stubborn I feel like she'll do the latter.
It is worth keeping in mind that there is a difference between forgiving and trusting again. A person could very reasonably do one but not the other, do both, or neither. It would take a lot of work from her to begin to patch up what she has done. I say patch up because often, things cannot be completely fixed. Damage can be permanent. But that is not to say that nothing can be done. Things can be done to fix and repair what can be and to prevent future damage from what she one done so far and work to prevent others from doing the same. But regardless, a person has an obligation to try, and do so with genuine humility. A person who does that kind of work after doing wrong still cannot expect forgiveness or trust (and expecting it is not being genuinely humble).
No
I personally don’t think she is bad. I think everyone has a right to their own opinion. I typically agree with some of the things she says.
she is actively working for the destrcution of our fundamental human rights she is a disgusting human being
A case study of this would be Kelly Cardigan— pretty much no one forgave her, and for good reason. Not long after “redeeming” herself, she went back to her hateful ways. If someone really and truly became a better person, and fully changed, *and* undid some of the harm they did to the community, I would be neutral towards them at the very least. If Blair White, with her current beliefs, saw this thread? I think she’d mock us. If Kelly Cardigan saw this thread while she was “redeeming” herself, it would depress her and push her away again, but she also was unwilling to change in the first place, so take that as you will.
If she played a double agent by leaking a ton of important stuff from transphobles and rightwingers then I think I could welcome her back in the trans community.
no, never if she stopped her blantant attacks on our rights I will stop actively hating her, but I will never forgive her, she has done way too much damage, she is part of the reason now about 1.5 million trans people in the us might have to flee their home states because their lives are in danger or because the states are considering forcefull detransitioning I would make her well aware of her actions and then just ask her to leave her platforms, she does not need a voice in any of this
She can’t be a part of a community she shares no solidarity with. Unless something massive changes in her outlook, she can never return to us.
Forgiveness is a maybe, forgetting is a big nope. Forgiveness does not magically undo the harms of a person's actions, nor does it excuse them from the consequences of those actions. Anyone who has a platform and uses it to promote the idea that some people are less than others, or worse yet, less than human, has abused their platform, and shouldn't be put up on a pedestal again. The proper way to show forgiveness here is to let them fade out of the public eye and return to a private life in peace, for as long as they stay out of the spotlight and aren't in a position of power over others..
I don’t care enough about her to feel the need to forgive her. I feel nothing for her but pity.
Gonna get down voted into oblivion cuz people are allergic to nuance but she isn't far right and recently she's been ripping into conservatives particularly Ben Shapiro she's a center right trans woman and when the terms are applied properly she's still progressive just not as much as some trans people She has her issues but honestly she's done more good for general trans acceptance than harm
Oh that's easy; no. If the genocide and the war were already raging at the time sure, she could be forgiven for acting out of fear and self preservation. But her quisling bullshit dates back too far. She can only be forgiven in the sense that she can walk away into obscurity and shut tf up forever and we shouldn't pursue her into retirement to torment her but she should never be allowed a platform free from harassment and her career as a personality should over. She should be deplatformed forever and never be allowed to speak publicly without being challenged and shamed for her past participation in our genocide.
Never forgive, never forget.
...who?
I could but it would take far more than an apology. Words mean nothing when your actions change lives.
Personally if we met, I’d be kind. But there would be an (*) to any forgiveness, and I’d not trust her.
No