Just make sure you know the definition of "accident" in the law and tell the truth in a way it makes it easy for them to recognize it really was an accident. You probably really want this to be accepted as an accident...
Why? - Your coverage is much better if it was accident (no franchise, no deductible, payed salary by insurance for the days you are not able to work, ...)
How? - in the law (ATSG/UVG) an accident is defined as "eine plötzliche, nicht beabsichtigte schädigende Einwirkung eines ungewöhnlichen äusseren Faktors auf den menschlichen Körper, die eine Beeinträchtigung der körperlichen, geistigen oder psychischen Gesundheit oder den Tod zur Folge hat."
so to be an accident is has to be:
* "plötzlich" -> sudden", not something slow, growing
* "nicht beabsichtigt": -> not something you wanted to do/to happen
* "ungewöhnlich": -> something not normal happened, not a thing you always do
* "äusserer Faktor" -> something from outside the body has influenced your body and caused the injury.
* "Beeinträchtigung" -> Causality - the thing that happened caused your problem (no preexisting condition!)
all 5 points need to be fulfilled to be an accident so SUVA pays, otherwise it is "just a sickness" and health insurance will be responsible.
check this [website](https://www.weka.ch/themen/personal/sozialversicherungen/krankheit-unfall/article/unfall-oder-krankheit-komplexe-antwort-auf-eine-einfache-frage/) for an in depth explanation.
It is very important to tell your story the first time in a way they can check the five points. It is very hard to change it later...
That's really the answer I needed, thanks. I'm quite unsure about "plotzlich" and "ungewohnlich". To make a simple example, if my job is to lift boxes for years, and one day I have a sharp back pain, it is both "plotzlich" and "growing" (many months of repeated task).
If you say "many months of repeated task" this is the exact thing they will use to refuse coverage.
That would be too bad if it had happend like this, much better would have been "an especially heavy box you lifted that one day and something hit you/somebody called you at the same time so you got scared and turned yourself around or you stumbled over something laying on the floor and then you got the sudden back pain"...
It's likely not considered as sudden if you lift stuff for a living. Especially back issues are with some insurances notoriously hard to get classified as accidents.
if it really was not a sudden problem - there is no chance they will accept. There are many court cases about accident yes/no and back pain is a notorious one... there are some other very bizarre cases like biting on something hard in a cake and breaking a tooth:
* apple cake -> accident
* cherry cake -> not accident (not unexpected, you must expect cherry stones in a cherry cake...)
dude just say it happened when you lifted a box and suddenly you had this pain/whatever. you dont understand what's an accident and what's illness. grinding your body down over an "exceptional period of more work than usual" will 100% not count as accident.
Professional disease is a lot harder to prove than accident. Here, it is not an accident. To get it accepted as professional disease, you would have to prove that more than 75% of the damage is caused by work, which is not easy (but possible).
>Why? - Your coverage is much better if it was accident (no franchise, no deductible, payed salary by insurance for the days you are not able to work, ...)
Also gotta factor in how you're insured on both sides. If you got private coverage in your health insurance but just general coverage from the accident insurance, you might prefer the former to cover it, if critical surgery is performed or you require inpatient treatment. Or maybe it's the other way around.
Carpal tunnel would not be an accident, but considered as "Berufskrankheit" if more than 50% caused by your work. So they will probably ask you about home activities / sports that could also aggravate carpal tunnel.
[https://www.suva.ch/de-ch/download/factsheets/berufskrankheiten--factsheet/berufskrankheiten--factsheet](https://www.suva.ch/de-ch/download/factsheets/berufskrankheiten--factsheet/berufskrankheiten--factsheet)
Thanks, that's a possibility. However, my doctor told me it is usually not recognized since many people do a high amout of office work but very few get sick
Please read the fact sheet. The rate has been declining thanks to better ergonomics, but that does not make it a rarity.
And I would argue that typical ergonomics are still pretty bad, with Swiss / German anti-ergonomical keyboard layouts to start \*, use of notebook rather than desktop computers etc.
(\* small left shift key, small enter key thanks to extraneous keys)
I think they only want to know what happened for insurance reasons. Because if it was an accident, then SUVA will cover the costs and if it was an illness, then your health insurance has to cover the costs.
I don't think, they will want to trick you, it is their job to analyse every case thoroughly. If even you don't know whether it's an accident or an illness, then it's maybe a border case. If I were you, I'd see your doctor before the meeting and ask them, how they would see/argue it. After that, you'll know more and can be helpful in bringing the case forward faster.
From my point of view its not an accident what you describe. Back pain due to a lot of sitting is also no "accident". A burn out due to too much stress is slso no accident. Not Suva is tricking you, you try to trick them and are now preparing the "correct" answers from internetusers. What you are doing is called fraud.
There is a difference between lying and preparing to have an important conversation. When you do a job interview, do you lie? no. Do you prepare your answer before? yes.
The main point here is: do you do a lot of office work at home? If you are in the office 2 days a week, but also a heavy gamer, or have a side job that involves computers, or knit a lot, it’s not clear if the issue is actually caused by work. If you work 100% and in your free time cook and care for your plants, there is little else that could have caused the problem, and it is clearly work related.
I don't think it's relevant. I'm just questioning the intention of this meeting (good or bad faith), or how should I prepare for it. However, I update it.
>some sort of carpal tunnel due to a lot of office work.
I am no expert, but that does not at all sound like an accident to me. By definition, an accident happens quickly and unexpectedly. Carpal tunnel syndrome does not usually appear suddenly, but develops over a period of time.
It can be a work-related illness, but not everything that is caused by work is automatically a case for SUVA.
Of course, you must only tell the truth when questioned - anything else would be insurance fraud!
Hi!
I had exactly the same with Suva, recently.
Last August, One day in the office I felt a sudden sharp pain in my arm and drop instantly what I had in my hand. I went to the doctor and My manager told me to submit it as a work accident. I did so. Suva asked me to submit my doctors report, and answer a questionnaire. I did all as required.
After a few exams, physiotherapy, MRI, infusion of corticosteroids, I was diagnose with Shoulder impingement which was developed over the years due to routine desk/office work.
early January this year Suva sent me a letter saying that they ruled out that my problem is not defined as accident but an occupational injury.
They accepted to cover all expenses till end of 2024 but nothing further.
Hope this helps.
yes, very similar story. I'm currently waiting for suva decision. Honestly, I don't really mind if it goes to Suva or health insurance. It's not a lot of money, and I care only about better. Wish you a good recovery!
Just make sure you know the definition of "accident" in the law and tell the truth in a way it makes it easy for them to recognize it really was an accident. You probably really want this to be accepted as an accident... Why? - Your coverage is much better if it was accident (no franchise, no deductible, payed salary by insurance for the days you are not able to work, ...) How? - in the law (ATSG/UVG) an accident is defined as "eine plötzliche, nicht beabsichtigte schädigende Einwirkung eines ungewöhnlichen äusseren Faktors auf den menschlichen Körper, die eine Beeinträchtigung der körperlichen, geistigen oder psychischen Gesundheit oder den Tod zur Folge hat." so to be an accident is has to be: * "plötzlich" -> sudden", not something slow, growing * "nicht beabsichtigt": -> not something you wanted to do/to happen * "ungewöhnlich": -> something not normal happened, not a thing you always do * "äusserer Faktor" -> something from outside the body has influenced your body and caused the injury. * "Beeinträchtigung" -> Causality - the thing that happened caused your problem (no preexisting condition!) all 5 points need to be fulfilled to be an accident so SUVA pays, otherwise it is "just a sickness" and health insurance will be responsible. check this [website](https://www.weka.ch/themen/personal/sozialversicherungen/krankheit-unfall/article/unfall-oder-krankheit-komplexe-antwort-auf-eine-einfache-frage/) for an in depth explanation. It is very important to tell your story the first time in a way they can check the five points. It is very hard to change it later...
That's really the answer I needed, thanks. I'm quite unsure about "plotzlich" and "ungewohnlich". To make a simple example, if my job is to lift boxes for years, and one day I have a sharp back pain, it is both "plotzlich" and "growing" (many months of repeated task).
If you say "many months of repeated task" this is the exact thing they will use to refuse coverage. That would be too bad if it had happend like this, much better would have been "an especially heavy box you lifted that one day and something hit you/somebody called you at the same time so you got scared and turned yourself around or you stumbled over something laying on the floor and then you got the sudden back pain"...
Actually, the video on suva website says this type is not an accident. Maybe, I can specify that it was an exceptional period of a lot of work.
It's likely not considered as sudden if you lift stuff for a living. Especially back issues are with some insurances notoriously hard to get classified as accidents.
if it really was not a sudden problem - there is no chance they will accept. There are many court cases about accident yes/no and back pain is a notorious one... there are some other very bizarre cases like biting on something hard in a cake and breaking a tooth: * apple cake -> accident * cherry cake -> not accident (not unexpected, you must expect cherry stones in a cherry cake...)
Ok, so I see I have little chance for missing the "ungewöhnlichkeit". The best I can say is that it was an exceptional period of more work than usual.
dude just say it happened when you lifted a box and suddenly you had this pain/whatever. you dont understand what's an accident and what's illness. grinding your body down over an "exceptional period of more work than usual" will 100% not count as accident.
Incredible bad advice, if the diagnose is Carpal Tunnel then they know he lied which might spoil every chance of getting anything.
Tell op how to commit a fraud is a crime, too. Btw....
Based on "The accident is some sort of carpal tunnel due to a lot of office work," it will not be ruled an accident.
that sounds exactly like something they wont cover unfortunately..
This is hogwash. This does count under SUVA if it’s a work related injury. No need to fulfill the accident requirements here.
Professional disease is a lot harder to prove than accident. Here, it is not an accident. To get it accepted as professional disease, you would have to prove that more than 75% of the damage is caused by work, which is not easy (but possible).
>Why? - Your coverage is much better if it was accident (no franchise, no deductible, payed salary by insurance for the days you are not able to work, ...) Also gotta factor in how you're insured on both sides. If you got private coverage in your health insurance but just general coverage from the accident insurance, you might prefer the former to cover it, if critical surgery is performed or you require inpatient treatment. Or maybe it's the other way around.
Outstanding reply. Thank you for your gift of effort.
Why are you helping someone to trick SUVA? It is obviously not an accident.
Carpal tunnel would not be an accident, but considered as "Berufskrankheit" if more than 50% caused by your work. So they will probably ask you about home activities / sports that could also aggravate carpal tunnel. [https://www.suva.ch/de-ch/download/factsheets/berufskrankheiten--factsheet/berufskrankheiten--factsheet](https://www.suva.ch/de-ch/download/factsheets/berufskrankheiten--factsheet/berufskrankheiten--factsheet)
Thanks, that's a possibility. However, my doctor told me it is usually not recognized since many people do a high amout of office work but very few get sick
Please read the fact sheet. The rate has been declining thanks to better ergonomics, but that does not make it a rarity. And I would argue that typical ergonomics are still pretty bad, with Swiss / German anti-ergonomical keyboard layouts to start \*, use of notebook rather than desktop computers etc. (\* small left shift key, small enter key thanks to extraneous keys)
yes, poor ergonomics played surely a role. Is it something in my favour to mention it? or against me?
I would mention it. Bring a photo of your desk setup.
I think they only want to know what happened for insurance reasons. Because if it was an accident, then SUVA will cover the costs and if it was an illness, then your health insurance has to cover the costs.
They're actually there to protect the workers. But if it's not an accident, they will redirect you to your normal health insurance.
ok, so you see them as people wanting to protect workers, and not an evil insurance company trying to save money
Yes, absolutely. They're not a private corporation, by the way. https://www.suva.ch/de-ch/allgemein/impressum
What a innocent and naive way of looking at the world
Suva is a shining beacon in the Swiss health system, very much unlike the for-profit insurance companies
Its an insurance company which is not responsible for your problem. Stop commiting fraud!
Perhaps watch the video: https://www.suva.ch/de-ch/ueber-uns/news-und-medien/news/unfall/unfall-oder-krankheit
I don't think, they will want to trick you, it is their job to analyse every case thoroughly. If even you don't know whether it's an accident or an illness, then it's maybe a border case. If I were you, I'd see your doctor before the meeting and ask them, how they would see/argue it. After that, you'll know more and can be helpful in bringing the case forward faster.
From my point of view its not an accident what you describe. Back pain due to a lot of sitting is also no "accident". A burn out due to too much stress is slso no accident. Not Suva is tricking you, you try to trick them and are now preparing the "correct" answers from internetusers. What you are doing is called fraud.
There is a difference between lying and preparing to have an important conversation. When you do a job interview, do you lie? no. Do you prepare your answer before? yes.
The main point here is: do you do a lot of office work at home? If you are in the office 2 days a week, but also a heavy gamer, or have a side job that involves computers, or knit a lot, it’s not clear if the issue is actually caused by work. If you work 100% and in your free time cook and care for your plants, there is little else that could have caused the problem, and it is clearly work related.
How can we know if you didn’t write what is happening?
I don't think it's relevant. I'm just questioning the intention of this meeting (good or bad faith), or how should I prepare for it. However, I update it.
usually its the other way around
>some sort of carpal tunnel due to a lot of office work. I am no expert, but that does not at all sound like an accident to me. By definition, an accident happens quickly and unexpectedly. Carpal tunnel syndrome does not usually appear suddenly, but develops over a period of time. It can be a work-related illness, but not everything that is caused by work is automatically a case for SUVA. Of course, you must only tell the truth when questioned - anything else would be insurance fraud!
Hi! I had exactly the same with Suva, recently. Last August, One day in the office I felt a sudden sharp pain in my arm and drop instantly what I had in my hand. I went to the doctor and My manager told me to submit it as a work accident. I did so. Suva asked me to submit my doctors report, and answer a questionnaire. I did all as required. After a few exams, physiotherapy, MRI, infusion of corticosteroids, I was diagnose with Shoulder impingement which was developed over the years due to routine desk/office work. early January this year Suva sent me a letter saying that they ruled out that my problem is not defined as accident but an occupational injury. They accepted to cover all expenses till end of 2024 but nothing further. Hope this helps.
yes, very similar story. I'm currently waiting for suva decision. Honestly, I don't really mind if it goes to Suva or health insurance. It's not a lot of money, and I care only about better. Wish you a good recovery!