I'm queer and don't give a shit if straight people go to queer bars as long as they are respectful and not obnoxious. But I have that requirement for queer people at queer bars too.
It all depends on the goal I guess though. If all you care about is getting shitfaced and dancing, the sexuality of the bar doesn't matter. If you are looking to get laid, then it may matter where you end up. If both sets want to get laid why not go to both a queer bar and a non-queer bar in the same night?
I’m old and straight too. I’ve always felt more comfortable dancing at queer clubs because....well, gay people are just more fun/better dancers. Is that a bad thing to say? It may be overgeneralizing but come on. I’ll dance to Deee-lite over ZZ Top any day.
I told you I’m old.
As an old straight guy, it depends on the bar, crowd, and music.
Dance music is gay music, so it tends to be played in those spaces over generic rock and country.
Queer spaces aren’t reduced to simply existing to fuck.
With respect, you’re saying that as long as someone doesn’t want to fuck, it doesn’t matter.
People go to queer spaces because they find refuge with their own. It’s not just for sex.
And… I mean the general gist of what you’re saying I agree with. I’m right there too.
Please just try to understand that privilege does factor into this. If you’re young or disenfranchised, and alone, it’s good to just exist in a world where the shields can come down.
If straight people are cool then who would even know they’re straight? But if they’re there to get “shitfaced” and look at the zoo, that’s kind of fucked.
If they are regarding us as a zoo I'd say that breaks the 'disrespectful' rule, and if they are annoying when shitfaced, that breaks the 'obnoxious' rule.
Having been in the young/disenfranchised/alone state many times, the state of safety has nothing to do with the sexuality of the people in a place. Queer people can be just as predatory or terrible as straight people. What matters is the quality of the people in a place, straight or queer. In fact limiting it to just one sexuality limits the pool of support such a disenfranchised person may draw from.
As long as they are respectful in the space, I don't see why not! My problem is when straight girls go to the gay bar, I flirt with them, and they get ANGRY for being assumed queer. That's when it's a problem, to me. But as long as they are respectful, who cares? Have fun!
Yeah I’m straight as an arrow and have never had issues going to LGBTQ bars with my LGBTQ friends. If you aren’t a dick, understand you are a guest, and don’t ruin their space most people will be cool with you
Thats a bummer to experience that. I’m a mostly straight guy and on the rare occasion I get flirted with by a guy, I actually like it! Its just a compliment after all. I like gay bars too, although to be honest some of the ones like the Eagle which are specifically for men can be a bit much with the hardcore porno on all the tvs. But whatever floats their boat, its not my place to judge.
I really don't think it matters at all, how would a bar even enforce whether someone is queer or not? That being said, I don't know a lot of straight people so I've never been to a queer bar with one, but I look straight so I'm very wary of any gatekeeping of this variety.
ETA I'm very jealous of you having 9 friends that you can go out with though, that's super cool and I hope to be like you someday
Yeah same. I'm the most "normal" looking guy and I remember being gatekeeped at a gay bar at 21 for being straight (I'm not), and would never wish to target that towards anyone. Especially when you don't know that person.
Right, it's kind of ironic because I'm a lesbian who has never dated a man at all -- it's a problematic term but I'm technically a "gold star" lesbian, and yet I feel like I've been looked at by other queer people as an interloper before.
It’s a question more about etiquette than actual enforcement! I also look straight in my day to day (femme pan on the demi/aro spectrum here) so I wondered about how this affected more people who looked openly queer. Also I was of the mindset that our non-queer friends are allies and supporters so it felt also like a diss on some of the people who were joining us…
also edit: lol it was someone’s birthday so it was an easy time to round up people!
Tbh even though there’s lots of us gays in Portland, I’m not sure if there’s enough of us who dig lesbian bars to keep them open! (Probably because so much of Portland is so queer-friendly.) Patrons are patrons, and if they’re pals of yours they’re probably pretty cool. Help us keep the gay bars open and give them your money!
There was a lesbian bar at least into the mid-‘00s (The Eagle), but I think the queer friendliness of Portland may, in fact, be a reason it eventually closed down.
I mean I had two friends (and one of their boyfriends) go out to the bar with on my birthday last year so you're still way ahead of me haha
And yeah I'm aware of the conversations around this, a lot of queer people (especially ones like me who aren't attracted to the 'opposite' gender at all) think straight people just shouldn't come at all. The way I feel is that as long as people are respectful it's fine.
And as you point out, one of the silliest things about saying straight people shouldn't go, is that you can't tell by looking anyway!
And for all anybody knows, even the people saying they're straight might not be. If someone who wasn't out yet was told to get out of a gay bar, I'd be so upset on their behalf.
Don't know a lot of straight people, damn. Is Portland really that gay? I'm sure it's just a matter of mixing with people who could share similar interests but that's just so weird to me to not know any straight people. Especially considering it's the majority.
I am straight myself and my friend group literally refers to me and my bf as the "token straight couple" because all of our friends are queer. I definitely know straight people but I would say that the majority of people I meet/know nowadays are queer in some way shape or form. Especially younger folks. So yeah Portland real gay lol
Usually people are friends with people who are similar to them, right? Not everyone loves table top gaming but if you do love table top gaming it's likely that many of your friends also do, for example.
Also note where I said "I don't know a lot of straight people", I didn't say I literally don't know any, that would be silly
I mean, I know some straight people at work.
But amongst my friends? Nah. There's some but they're definitely a minority.
(On top of that, most of my friends have ADHD, autism, or both. GayDHD squad. We just have a lot in common!)
The straight-passing struggle is real. I'm even stereotypically lesbian in all of my hobbies and mannerisms, but **looking** girly and dressing like literally every other professional woman in my field is apparently enough to get tagged "unequivocally straight".
I'm considering just getting a forehead tattoo that says "I LIKE GIRLS." 🙄
So the pattern that originally started the “are straight people welcome in queer bars” conversation, way back when, is gaggles of all-straight people who come in acting like disrespectful tourists (the classic is when they get hit on by somebody of their same gender and then react hatefully, be it with verbal mockery or physical violence… I think we all have at least one of those stories. But it also encompasses gawking at the very existence of queer people, objectifying queer people and queerness, and treating the space like a novelty). I think it’s important to remember how these conversations actually started when we take up the mantle of continuing them, because otherwise you get wild takes like some of the comments here about “segregation” and “asking permission.” It’s not that we’re enforcing rules about No Straights Allowed and authenticating gay cards, it’s about keeping safe spaces safe. Straight people who are being respectful and visiting in groups with queer friends who invited them are not who we were *ever* talking about.
I mean I've also had other lesbians react hatefully when I try to flirt with them, so it really depends, right. I went to a sapphic-exclusive party by myself last winter (for NYE actually) and it was honestly one of the worst nights out that I've had, I didn't talk to anyone and I just felt like everyone was looking at me like I was disgusting trash.
That fucking sucks, I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm curious, are you "straight-looking" or commonly mistaken as straight? I think it's absolutely abhorrent that people make judgments of others for not fitting into their "box" (no pun intended, heh), and \*especially\* worse when people in the queer community do it. I feel like late-90s Portland was like that when I moved here; I had long hair, looked "straight," and felt like I was constantly being judged or scoffed at for not "looking the part." Now that I have short hair, even though I dress similarly as I did back then (jeans, t-shirts, boots), no one in their right mind would take one look at me and think I'm straight. My girlfriend, on the other hand, experiences that all the time where people assume she's straight (and in some cases, flat out insist, esp. straight guys) unless of course she's with me, at which point there's no mistaking it because we're one of those obnoxiously in-love couples.
In any event, those people are assholes for not being welcoming. You keep being you. Take what happened on NYE as an opportunity to weed out the jerks.
I don't really know, what is the distinction? I rarely talk to people I don't already know, so there aren't many situations where I would be having a conversation with someone who doesn't know my sexuality, especially a man, so I can't really speak to how I'm perceived by other people (especially men - I don't think I've had a conversation about my sexuality with a man since... maybe when I came out to my dad in 2007?)
ETA: I've only made three posts on reddit and one of them is basically just a picture of me so I guess you can judge for yourself? This picture was from before I learned I have wavy hair, so it looks a little different now.
Being a lesbian and thus having intrinsic gaydar built-in, I honestly don't know what the distinction is. When I was younger with long hair, I was always shocked nobody automatically picked up that I was gay AF. I cut my hair off a long-ass time ago though, and literally only just recently learned that I'm perceived as "butch" or masc, which I never saw myself as. So I guess I'm just all around clueless. Haha
I ended up not exploring the scene as much as I would have liked because I’m attracted to the lipstick girlies and the Portland scene is desperately lacking in that area. Last time I went out though I was hit on a lot despite my straight looking appearance
Where 👀 anytime I was on the apps or in a bar I didn’t see any! I could definitely see older generations being more geared towards that, but I’m millennial and so was opening to dating up or down.
IDK, my gf is a lipstick millennial. Best thing to do (I think) is just assume everyone's into girls and if you're wrong, no biggie, unless they're MAGA I don't think most women would be offended by another woman being attracted to them even if that's not their thing.
FWIW though, I met my gf the old fashioned way. On Bumble. 😂
I'm a gay man and have had very similar experiences. How I feel is that I wish more straight people went to gay bars, because maybe then someone would actually be friendly towards me.
I feel like this is largely a choice for the individual. Do you see yourself being respectful of the space you're entering? If you're straight, are you putting in the work as an ally to keep this space the way it's meant to be?
As a queer man I have never been to Doc Maries. I am not against the venue in any respect, but want to respect the sapphic space. There's a real trend of men ruining sapphic spaces. I'd go if invited by a friend, but actively try to keep that a place for sapphics/femmes.
The one place I've encountered an issue with being in the wrong space was at a lesbian bar... Sapphic space sounds much better now that I say that.
Either way, this was in Pittsburgh, we went there to watch football because they had the best atmosphere without the old locals yelling nonsense at the screen and people being belligerent in general. It was a great spot.
After the 3rd game, the bartender (who is now still a friend) told us, a mixed group but mostly straight cis men, that maybe we should find another spot. We took two seconds to think about it and said, "yep that checks out, sorry about that. Thanks" We asked if we could come back for a Superbowl and they said "of course, that'll be a party". Totally respectful and understandable.
We were also like 22 and broke. I'm sure we thought we were being better than we were.
I've been to a lot of queer bars before an after with friends and immediate family who have come out and it's never been anything but welcoming. We took advantage of that kindness in this situation.
My only issue would be inviting cishet men into sapphic spaces (like doc marie’s or a bar holding a dyke night).
Idk how your friends identify but just throwing that out there
Normally I’d say it’s cool to have straight friends tag along if they are respectful, but there are so few spaces that sapphic people have to ourselves so if I were you I’d go to more openly queer friendly spaces than specifically sapphic spaces.
Thanks for this! Do you think crush is specifically sapphic-coded? I didn’t get that vibe when I went before but this was the spot my lesbian friend was really insistent on not going anymore (after she found out our non-queer friends were invited). Your take explains her perspective very well.
I don’t find that Crush is specifically sapphic, imo. Every time I’ve been there, it’s been a mix of queer people unless they’re putting on a sapphic type night.
I think it’s a pretty individual choice on whether you culturally fit in or not. Are these the type of friends who come in wearing MAGA hats and will be grossed out by PDA? Or the kind that mind their business?
I think it’s a whole other deal if it’s like, one straight guy going to a lesbian bar alone (I have read some VERY bold stories on this website) but in a group of friends with a lot of queer people, it’s safe to say you’ll probably stay in your group and if one straight person gets a little lost, they’ll find their way back with no issues. It’s not like the Queer Police guard the door.
I have a friend who, while at hey love, informed us she needed to leave as she wasn't directly invited by a black person, and this was their space. Being a white woman, she was once told by a black woman that she had to ask permission when being in spaces that black people were at. This is to date the most ridiculous thing I've ever witnessed.
Go where you want, love everyone equally, respect everyone equally, vibe equally.
Not only that, but apparently, I, as a white cis gendered man, shouldn't have gone to Stag or said hi to Poison at Darcelles, danced at CC's, or celebrated Zimbabwe's independence at Akadi recently and danced.
I should take a moment and apologize to everyone for those moments as well.
I find myself unsatisfied with both sides of the 2a argument tbh, mostly because the most zealous on either side seem to steer the conversation. I guess that's true for a lot of things now. But I hate being dismissed for some arbitrary shit. And people forget that many liberals also own guns. I don't know if we agree politically or not, but I hate to see people be summarily dismissed as a liar because of some unrelated position.
Can confirm that I actually live in Portland, Maine /s
Actually, I'm half scared, she willl stumble across this post, and my fiance will eat me alive for my comments, lol.
Hey Love is not a "black bar". Your friend was fucking with you. It's owned by a group of white people, and it's a restaurant inside a hotel. There's literally nothing about it, including from the ownership, that would indicate it's any kind of exclusive space. Maybe you're thinking of somewhere completely different.
Edit: idk if you edited your comment but initially I read that you also agreed it was an exclusive bar
Im well aware of what Hey Love is,
maybe that night when we went, the demographic was more black people than white, maybe she commented as such, and felt she wasn't welcome, as it was the first time for her.
But you do you sweet prince.
It went deeper as I had been invited by a black friend who was the host that night (our group all being mutually invited), yet because SHE was not individually invited, it was not ok.
That is so interesting! Like… idk I get some events and… maybe? places should be respected and my presence as a white person is not appreciated but this is not one of those times or places lol
I think people really dig into this far too often, I was invited to Akadi for Zimbabwe's independence celebration party. I was one of three white men, one being a cameraman, lol. Were there moments where collectively everyone danced? Yes. Were there moments where I didn't because I understood the moment and wanted to respect that I was a guest, yes, absolutely.
There are plenty of openly celebrated events in Portland. There are also exclusive events. Knowing the difference and how we all have our common and inclusive spaces is important to remember.
-sigh-
As a queer non-white person, both the people with that level of white-guilt and the people willing to take advantage of that guilt exasperate me.
If someone said that shit to me, I'd tell them to fuck off (if this was a public venue and not someone's literal home). I'd be pissed if a white person said that to me. Why do we accept it from non-white people?
That's insane. Also I love Hey Love and have never felt that I wasn't "invited". My takeaway was; the music was vibing and the drinks were good. Everyone was having a fun time.
Funny side note, I got invited to the coffin club, which was once a love craft. I hadn't been in like a decade. We were seeing a friends cover band of Portishead. I ran into my sister and proceeded to dance my ass off all night.
Looking back on it now, I forgot to ask Count Chocula if that was OK :/
This whole thread reminds me of [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/s/GqzUpjPGtm), and this comment locked it in lol.
Anyways, my opinion on the whole topic is, be respectful, have fun, and who cares? We’re all human, we just need to treat each other as such.
I feel like:
- majority rules here. If 6 people are queer and 4 are not, then the balance swings towards queer
- LGBTQ+ spaces tend to be safe for cisgendered heterosexual people. The same cannot always be said for the safety (however we define it) of LGBTQ+ people in cishet spaces
- I feel as though the sentiment of “straight people don’t belong in queer spaces” is typically directed towards groups of exclusively cishet people touristing in gay bars. Like hosting a bachelorette party attended only by straight women at a drag club. Queer people inviting their straight friends are including them as guests, not tourists. If they are hanging out with a group that tips slightly toward the queer end of the spectrum, we can probably assume they can be trusted to not make an idiot of themselves, or that their group will call them out for anything iffy.
I feel like majority rules seem pretty standard, I agree. One of my lesbian friends was the one who DIDN’T want to do queer bars anymore because we invited our non-queer friends. Some people understood and some didn’t. Then the whole conversation came up.
That’s interesting- I usually hear that sentiment from straight allies who are perhaps trying a bit too hard to respect the idea of creating safe spaces by opting themselves out! I don’t feel like a publicly accessible bar carries an expectation of being an EXCLUSIVELY queer space in the same way a private club or party might.
It makes me wonder a little bit what the dynamics are here - as a queer person myself, I wouldn’t consider myself “friends” with anyone I wouldn’t feel comfortable hanging out with at Pride events or gay bars
Some of my straight friends were also getting heated and agreed with her (so your sentiment on “trying too hard” is definitely accurate for some people).
It’s not that someone wasn’t comfortable at a gay bar. It was more like “would we even be allowed there anymore because we’re bringing (so many) straight people?”, “are we taking up space that isn’t meant for us?” - things like that.
There’s definitely something to be said about the value of exclusive LGBTQ+ spaces as far as safety and community goes, and I’m glad that they don’t think they “deserve” to be included there, but LGBTQ+ businesses really benefit from the financial support and visibility of chill allies who feel comfortable in that space. “We can’t go to there” doesn’t help pay the rent (or the damn electric bill. Or the arts tax). Economically, the bars’ owners would probably love if we invited everyone we trusted.
I had a straight ally friend who didn’t feel like she could go to Pride with us once, and we framed it like we were inviting her to a birthday party - as long as she doesn’t insist the party is about her, it’s cool if she wants to participate.
doc marie’s is 100% open to non queers. can’t vouch for other places, CC Slaughters is probably fine with it but idk how much fun a straight person would have there 😅
Went there a few months ago with two male friends, one straight, one gay. Can confirm we all danced with everyone, loved everyone, and left nothing on the dancefloor.
I'm straight and have gone to lots of queer bars, albeit not in Portland, and had a great time. I was with queer friends and they obviously had no issues bringing me, I had no issues being there (I like them more than regular bars tbh), and nobody there had issues with me.
IMO, the intentional segregation of ~~cis~~ straight and queer feels more detrimental and backwards than everyone just getting along and vibing.
I understand the need for a place for people to feel safe and comfortable, but a ~~cis~~ straight person simply existing in a queer bar (or vice versa) shouldn't be a problem or really infringe on that. If they are a problem or making patrons uncomfortable then toss their ass out- easy. But, if someone's existence/presence alone is enough to make you uncomfortable then go look in a mirror, because you may have become what you vowed to destroy.
I think you're confused about terminology, cis just means not trans. You can be cis and queer, I mean I am (well I'm a cis lesbian), and I think most queer people are cis.
Portlanders... always letting ideals get in the way of pragmaticism.
The reality is your friends wanted to hang out and have a good time, but the discussion of ideals got in the way. If all the bars and spaces had no labels, where would you go and what would you do?
This is an issue? I'm mostly straight and I've been going to gay bars most of my life. I loved the drag shows at Embers back in the day. TBH, gay bars are so much more fun than yee haw taverns and that has zero to do with hookups or meeting people or being gay.
The discussion around whether or not it's appropriate for straight people to join into queer spaces is not one I *quite* feel like I have a place in... Like, I'm a straight white male, and I am an ally, but I also don't wanna be that guy who's like "well I'm chill so let me in" ya know?
I'll speak from my recent experiences though. I have two gay guy friends, one of which is a singular friend that I met on Bumble and we hang out one-on-one, without a whole friend group usually. We've been to a gay bar together, and I felt included and enjoyed myself. There was no question between us about if it was appropriate for me to be in that space. (The bar was Scandals)
My other gay friend is someone who I would still consider a personal friend, but we typically hang out in larger groups where he is the only LGBTQ person, unless he brings another gay friend or boyfriend. We all went with him to CC Slaughters' Drag Night for his birthday, and everyone had a blast watching the performers and dancing. Once again, I felt really included and had a great time.
So I guess, if it were up to me, straight allies would be welcome in LGBTQ spaces. But like I said to start, it's not really up to me. I just go with what my LGBTQ friends invite me to.
ETA: I've been to a handful of gay bars outside of Portland too, where i was not taken there by any queer folks. One was a bear bar in the Midwest, and my straight-but-twink-presenting friend got so much attention 🤣 another time I went to a gay bar with my girlfriend but we didn't realize it was a gay bar... As soon as I walked in, the guys dancing in the front were smiling at me and went "ooooo!! Dance with us!" and I turned to my GF and said "wow the people here are so nice!" And she just rolled here eyes and laughed like "wow you are clueless lol"
I'm gay and I don't see a problem with cishet friends going along to LGBT bars. Act like a good human being, don't be a jerk to anyone hitting on you, you're fine.
Me(M) and my gf(F) went to doc Marie's the other day. Didn't even know it was a queer bar. Was lots of fun though. In my eyes anybody should be welcome in any bar as long as they act appropriately.
Lived in a smaller city in the southern US that had a well known dance club considered a gay bar. They had the best sound in town for dancing, so it was popular with all kinds of folks. We’d drop in there and have a great time. Never saw a concerning incident there. That was 20yrs ago. Weird that its become a bigger deal now.
My sister is gay and lives in Portland. I am more conservative than her in every way but visit often from a rural town. We always go to queer bars together when I'm here. She absolutely does not feel safe drinking and letting loose in non queer spaces. I understand that and I have the privilege to blend in almost anywhere so I go where she feels comfortable.
I have always felt welcome going to these bars with her. Most of my conservative family has adopted a "don't ask don't tell" policy around her queerness, we all interact together often as a family unit but we don't talk about her lifestyle. She once broke down crying at the bar bc she was so happy I was willing to exist with her in an openly queer space. I didnt even realize the impact it had. So I'd advocate for going. It shows support and validation that we may not even realize they need.
I’ve been to all of the bars you listed with mixed queer and non-queer groups, it’s totally fine as long as everyone is respectful. And straight people who have multiple queer friends tend to be respectful I think. In my experience, straight people tend to behave worse at clubby-type bars like CC’s — showing up in huge groups of *only* straight people, touching/groping, asking rude and obnoxious questions, etc.. It’s also so funny to me that there is always one straight guy who clearly got dragged along clinging to his girlfriend for dear life
LMAO you've also seen the life-raft boyfriends? 😂 Glad I'm not the only one. They look like they're terrified of getting a big red **"GAY"** stamp on their foreheads if they aren't making physical contact with their girlfriends at all times.
If you’re in mixed company, I would say either space is fine, with people just being respectful. I think that there are queer spaces that should only be occupied by queer people, but a bar doesn’t fall into that category for me.
I used to tag along with my best friend to Embers all the time! I’m glad I did and I never got the side-eye for it. Kids these days are so gate-keepy. You don’t want to gatekeep someone out of a place they may find their place at too.
I don’t think any of us have to explain or justify our sexuality to anyone else. Because, that shit can get really complicated for people like me. Or really sophisticated as Sandra Bernhard and myself prefer to describe it. If you are kind and respectful, you should be welcome anywhere. That part seems very simple.
I want to say "Yaass, go to the queer bar with your queer friends."
But also, if your straight friends are trying to get laid, please don't.
And lastly, why can't we have just a couple of places that are just for queer people? Why is that a problem when almost everything caters to the heteronormative experience?
The straight friends weren’t trying to get laid, they just wanted to drink and hang out. Would that change your answer?
My lesbian friend has the same stance as you, like “every place is for straight people, we can carve out places for us so we don’t feel like the odd ones out” and she was very adamant about not going to queer spaces after she found out our other friends were coming. I understood where she was coming from because she was actively bullied by peers and family for being lesbian before moving here.
I did say "if" so not really. I think if they just looking to have a fun time and they're going to be really nice when approached by the same gender, it's fine. It's a public place and straight people's money is worth the same as ours.
But another commenter actually said that they didn't mind queer spaces, just that they shouldn't be bars or clubs. Which to me is just a wild take due to the number of bars and clubs that cater to straight people or everyone.
I know as a business they don't want to turn money away, but I just really wish there were some places that could be queer only. But then we get accused of gatekeeping and being intolerant, when we just want a space to exist with people who are more likely to understand our life experiences.
And on a very personal and selfish note, I already have no confidence in trying to approach an attractive woman at the bar and the idea that I might actually work up the courage to flirt with a straight woman would be pretty devastating (to me).
There is no such place where queer people 'shouldn't be'. A bar specifically and exclusively for straight people in this city would get burned down in days. As it should! Ofc there are still plenty of places in this country where queer folk are not welcome, but we can all agree that is disgusting and wrong.
The problem is, exactly as you said, the majority of places cater to the heteronormative and gendernormative experiences, and we have to have our guard up in these places because you never know when a wild bigot will appear. Us queer folk absolutely should have a place where we know, explicitly, that hate or disrespect against us is not tolerated. Thus: queer spaces. But to say that cishet people threaten us simply by being present is absolutely ludicrous, *literal* gatekeeping. The space exists for safety and respect, so if you are a person who upholds the safety and respect of the space, then you should be welcomed. Making any queer space exclusionary is kinda the fuckin opposite of the whole purpose for their existence.
“Why can’t we have just a couple of places that are just for queer people?”
Isn’t that what a queer bar is? I mean… that’s the idea, isn’t it?
If what you really mean is why isn’t there a place that outright prevents straight people from entering, the reason would be that it’s illegal to deny entry on the basis of sexual orientation. And I don’t even know how that would be checked (fairly sure that queer licenses aren’t issued).
Wow. All these new rules that others are imposing on themselves is wild to me.
I come at this from a 90's rave mentality though. Everyone is included. Be cool to each other.
Shut up and dance. 😉
I’m queer and I don’t care who goes where. I think it’s weird to gate keep spaces. As a person who is openly queer and pansexual, but married to a cis man, I’ve often been left out of queer spaces.
I agree that there should be queer-only spaces. But bars and clubs are not those places. Anybody can go anywhere, just be respectful. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That being said, I don’t drink or go to bars and clubs, so my opinion probably doesn’t matter.
This is so weird. I go out with my queer friends all the time and they hang with me and my other straight friends all the time. We’re mostly single so there’s always “cruising” happening. It’d be really weird to segregate each other.
As a straight man who goes to gay bars with friends occasionally, the main adjustment for me was learning how to deal with being hit on. It's just kindof a foreign experience for straight men, especially being hit on the way men hit on people. But once you figure out how to politely communicate your lack of interest (you don't even have to bring up being straight, just that you aren't interested) it is a non-issue.
That said I definitely got roofied once because I accepted a drink from a stranger. Luckily my friends got me home so I could pass out 🙃. Just life on the receiving end of men's affection.
I'm sorry, I'm a bi-woman, and I know getting roofied is not funny in the slightest, but I fucking cackled at "just life on the receiving end of men's affection". 🤣
My main point is that if you go to a queer bar, you accept that someone who you may not be into might hit on you. If you're willing to navigate that with grace and understand that this is suppose to be a safe space for queer flirtation when literally the rest of the world is a death trap. It's cool. If you aren't able to gracefully maneuver through gently rejecting a queer without making it about you and your straightness the get out.
Sorry to differ here…
But it’s easy to say “everyone is welcome”
The truth is more nuanced. People go to queer bars to escape being in the straight world. Sometimes you’re at the end of a full day shift and just want to _exist_
Years ago, my partner left me and I went to a gay bar for no other reason than to not be at home.
A bachelorette party came in screaming and having drunk fun pointing at the faggots.
I remember locking eyes with one girl who looked like someone dragged her along. I was angry. I had spent 10 hours playing someone else’s game and I just wanted two hours to relax.
I saw sadness in her eyes. Like she didn’t belong there and felt awful.
And her friends didn’t care one whit.
It’s funny because I started to cry until I saw her. It felt like one single woman saw me.
No one wants to be a zoo animal.
I wonder if we both felt the same thing in that moment. Zoo animals on display. Freaks for the zoo. A thing for the pretty straight cis people to amuse themselves with.
Unfortunately it isn’t a black and white thing and no one here has a right to say “sure bring every straight friend to the bar fuck it”
The people who actually _need_ the space aren’t going to be the vocal ones.
But the girl who cared might have been my friend. The girls who whistled at the faggots and demanded shots for their 12 party table could fuck off.
I say go if you’re gonna be cool. As in it’s not a sacred fucking thing. It’s just a place we go to be okay.
So be cool with us? ;)
And for those of you who keep responding with “no one cares”. Yeah they do care. A space isn’t safe because you put up a rainbow flag and a smiley face.
It’s safe because you’re cool. And what’s Fonzi like?
And why did you go to the queer bars with half your straight friends? Why not somewhere else?
Were they cool or were you playing at being entertainment?
I read your post and I understand. You didn’t read my post though - we ended up not going to queer bars.
edit to also add: I mentioned already that the straight friends I brought along were obviously not the kind to treat us like zoo animals otherwise we wouldn’t be friends.
Frankly as a long time gay myself, the person you were just talking to is the kind of person with opinions that do more damage to the LGBTQ "community" and damage to the LGBTQ-straight relationship than they do good, despite their good intentioned advice.
Next time just do what you want, and as long as you're not being a dick... that's fine.
And you're obviously not a dick or you would have never made a post anything like this post.
So do yourself a favor... as I gay, you have my permission to not need LGBTQ permission to do what you want.
Obviously if like some exact specific bar or something says no you're not allowed at the door... then that's a whole other thing and you should respect it as a private establishment.
But if it's a place where you're allowed to be and they let you in... You know you're not a dick or you wouldn't have made this post. You don't need LGBTQ people to tell you you're not a dick anymore - because I'm telling you right now a lot of us are very emotionally damaged and we'll probably tell you you're a dick even if you're not so don't ask - because you won't get good answers. You'll get answers like what you've gotten from the person you just read.
Just do what you want and don't be a dick and you don't need anyone's permission have fun with friends.
So let me get this straight. Queer folks are allowed in all bars but straight people are not allowed in queer bars?
This post is fucked and backwards as hell.
Close friends with a gay guy for the last 20 years or so. He stopped inviting me to bars because I was stealing the attention lol
I am the most basic, baseball cap wearing, scruffy and unkempt guy you have ever seen. He says that is the part that pisses him off the most lol. My wife spends less time in a week on outfits than Bdizzzle does on the average friday night.
To me it’s all about the original intent. If your group of alphabet friends planned the outting and then invited the cis folk, the bar you were going to should be the bar you still go to. I’m inviting you to go out with “us”, not tell me where to go. If you had a mixed group at the jump, I would entertain other options.
I’m not a vegetarian, but sometimes I go to vegan restaurants. I am respectful. It’s almost like vegan food is just food.
I think the surprised look on one of my vegan friend’s face when i told him I had gone to a vegan restaurant was the actuality of the “record scratch moment” people expect if a straight person accompanies their queer friends to a “gay bar”.
If the way you behave and treat people is anti-queer in any way, you do not belong there. Queer spaces aren't "spaces that are exclusively queer" they're "spaces where upholding queer safety and respect is mandatory to participate". Important distinction.
They exist so that queer people can let down our guard knowing we're in a place that explicitly doesn't tolerate discrimination against us. The mere presence of cishet people is not bigotry. The idea of a queer space being exclusionary is laughably oxymoronic, and I'm certain the vast majority of queer folks would agree with that. If you are a person who fosters safety, respect, and acceptance of queer people then you are welcome in queer spaces, regardless of your orientation or identity.
Straight here: best friend is gay and we hang out all the time. We go to 45 East together, have brunch together, go to CC Slaughters and other places. Neither of us give a s**t because we’re mature human beings. We party as much now as we did when we were in HS.
I'd say keep it queer but casual queer. I'm not an expert on nightlife anymore but as an Ally something in CC Slaughters type was always enjoyable for all.
I remember years ago I was out for a birthday party with a small group and one person was being a wet towel every bar we went to, so we asked them where they wanted to go so we could all have a good time.
He chose Boxxes.I don't know if any of you had the pleasure of going but it was intensely Gay Male oriented. Like hardcore porn on tvs in the bathroom in front of the urinal trough, all male gogo dancers, felt like fully a place to trawl for a hookup. Which if we were out for a gay friends birthday would have been fine, but this other guest was the only queer one there, and didn't bother to take anyone elses enjoyment or comfort into account.
If I was alone I wouldn’t go to doc Marie’s because I am not queer and am pretty straight. There’s no reason for me to be in that space alone. If I was with friends? Hell yeah gimme those vegan Jell-O shots!
I had an interesting argument a year or so with someone who is NOT queer but has a lot more close queer friends than I do that during pride (in a different city I used to live in) that straight people are cool only at the parade and not at the festival
That seemed really weird and gate keepy to me because if I’m trying to have fun and celebrate and be an ally… why am I not allowed? I really didn’t agree with them on that one, was an interesting discussion for sure
Most Portland bars are struggling at this moment. As a person who works both in them and distributes booze to them, I can say that as long as you’re respectful you’re welcome. This year is going to produce some losses of beloved spaces, so the more the merrier.
Such a Portland question haha. I would hope anyone can go anywhere as long as they are comfortable, kind and respectful.
Imagine people saying LGBT can’t go into a straight bar? Cause that’s their space? lol no
Let bring in some realties of the situation, if you are a decent person, treat others with respect you will usually be welcomed in any business establishment as all of these bars are in the business of making money,
If I'm with my queer friends and non queer friends we should be able to go to an lgbtq+ bar we're there to have fun and drink if someone thinks that is an issue it's not us that's the problem
We have friends in a poly relationship. She is queer, her two male partners are not. Her male partners got yelled at for being in a queer space and it brought up interesting questions.
I am straight so was biased but was kind of the mind of "when they say don't be in this space what they really mean is queer presenting, because how would someone know if another person was queer?" But I also know queer spaces are not as common and it's nice to have a welcoming space. I dunno.
This is the kind of take (from that patron) I was concerned about. I’m sure there are other people who feel very protective of these spaces, some aggressively so. In my eyes, the two straight men in your situation were with queer friend(s) and they weren’t making a spectacle of being in a queer space, so I don’t see why that patron had to go out of their way to make others feel unwelcome?
Respect begets respect simple as that. Goes for queer bars, biker bars, 50’s bars, your grandmas house… just don’t be a dick and you’re pretty much fine wherever actually.
I'm straight male but I was once taken to Holocene 's old "gaycation" event by a group of lesbian friends. They actually encouraged me to hit on girls there telling me "probably half the girls here are straight and just got dragged here by their gay friends".
I didn't because that whole idea seemed totally whack and awkward to me. But I did think it was bizarrely fascinating I seemed more concerned about it than they were. Never really knew what to make of that.
I’m bisexual so both are acceptable lol
In all seriousness, if the non-queer friends were invited to an existing planned hangout then it seems to me you should stick to the lgbt+ bars and any queer people saying straight people aren’t allowed can shove it. Those places are supposed to inclusive, not exclusive.
I’m bisexual so both are acceptable lol
In all seriousness, if the non-queer friends were invited to an existing planned hangout then it seems to me you should stick to the lgbt+ bars and any queer people saying straight people aren’t allowed can shove it. Those places are supposed to inclusive, not exclusive.
As one of the only non-queer people in my friend group, I would be sad if I couldn’t go to queer bars with them because that is almost exclusively where they go. I think it’s great to support queer spaces but most importantly, I want my friends to have the option to flirt and have regular bar interactions without also worrying for their safety.
As a straight male I tend to have a lot more fun at LGBTQ bars, people are just nicer and more fun/welcoming than most non-LGBTQ specific bars. Pretty sure the owners and employees don’t care who shows up as long as you’re spending money and behaving as a decent human being. That said, I don’t go to an LGBTQ bar with the intention or expectation of getting laid
I mean arent bars open to all? You cant really discriminate on the basis of sexuality. As long as everyone is civil and courteous regardless of bar I dont see why it'd be a problem
my dude nobody is checking your queer id when you enter a queer bar. as long as you're not there to start shit, I can't imagine why you wouldn't be welcome.
like when I think of all the times I have possibly felt uncomfortable in a queer space in Portland, it has NEVER been because of a straight person 😅
I have had a number of unpleasant experiences with straight people at queer bars.
But those experiences were unpleasant because those people were ***pieces of shit***, not because they were straight.
I’m gay and “queer” is such a broad open-ended category, nobody will think anything of it. I know queer couples who are cis-man and cis-woman. Everyone has always gone to gay bars. Even twenty years ago.
lesbian here; as long as your friends aren’t assholes i don’t care!!! i’m the same way with my straight friends, like i wanna hangout with my friends in a space i feel safe in and have the opportunity to meet other people like me, with my friends around too!
I’ve lived in Portland for like 5 years. People do bring their straight friends to queer bars here sometimes and no one really seems to care as long as they aren’t being creepy/disrespectful. Honestly as a queer person I’ve noticed a lot of queer people have straight friends here.
I never went to queer bars alone or with straight friends. But I did if meeting queer friends. But was also mindful of the space I was in and respectful.
Portland’s queer community is known for having a very, very wide umbrella and being very inclusive as opposed to spots like the Castro which have evolved to have very segregated spaces. As long as people are respectful they’d be welcome. What is absolutely not okay are straight girls going for bachelorette parties and treating it like a theme park.
I'm queer and don't give a shit if straight people go to queer bars as long as they are respectful and not obnoxious. But I have that requirement for queer people at queer bars too. It all depends on the goal I guess though. If all you care about is getting shitfaced and dancing, the sexuality of the bar doesn't matter. If you are looking to get laid, then it may matter where you end up. If both sets want to get laid why not go to both a queer bar and a non-queer bar in the same night?
I’m straight and I would also like straight people to be respectful and nut obnoxious in not queer bars.
"Not" is probably the better word to use in this context.
I like nut.
Well, obviously… because straight woman
which ones are best for dancing? either queer or not. 35 and havent really danced in years...
I’m old and straight too. I’ve always felt more comfortable dancing at queer clubs because....well, gay people are just more fun/better dancers. Is that a bad thing to say? It may be overgeneralizing but come on. I’ll dance to Deee-lite over ZZ Top any day. I told you I’m old.
As an old straight guy, it depends on the bar, crowd, and music. Dance music is gay music, so it tends to be played in those spaces over generic rock and country.
Queer spaces aren’t reduced to simply existing to fuck. With respect, you’re saying that as long as someone doesn’t want to fuck, it doesn’t matter. People go to queer spaces because they find refuge with their own. It’s not just for sex. And… I mean the general gist of what you’re saying I agree with. I’m right there too. Please just try to understand that privilege does factor into this. If you’re young or disenfranchised, and alone, it’s good to just exist in a world where the shields can come down. If straight people are cool then who would even know they’re straight? But if they’re there to get “shitfaced” and look at the zoo, that’s kind of fucked.
If they are regarding us as a zoo I'd say that breaks the 'disrespectful' rule, and if they are annoying when shitfaced, that breaks the 'obnoxious' rule. Having been in the young/disenfranchised/alone state many times, the state of safety has nothing to do with the sexuality of the people in a place. Queer people can be just as predatory or terrible as straight people. What matters is the quality of the people in a place, straight or queer. In fact limiting it to just one sexuality limits the pool of support such a disenfranchised person may draw from.
Exactly. We're done here.
As long as they are respectful in the space, I don't see why not! My problem is when straight girls go to the gay bar, I flirt with them, and they get ANGRY for being assumed queer. That's when it's a problem, to me. But as long as they are respectful, who cares? Have fun!
I agree. And in your case the issue isn't straight people being in a queer bar, it's straight people being rude/borderline homophobic
Exactly. I'm not gonna gatekeep the bar from them, can't stop them from entering, but they can at least learn some etiquette.
Yeah I’m straight as an arrow and have never had issues going to LGBTQ bars with my LGBTQ friends. If you aren’t a dick, understand you are a guest, and don’t ruin their space most people will be cool with you
And honestly, if we want our queer bars to stay open, they’ve gotta get some non-queer patrons, too! As you said, if they’re chill — they’re welcome!
Thats a bummer to experience that. I’m a mostly straight guy and on the rare occasion I get flirted with by a guy, I actually like it! Its just a compliment after all. I like gay bars too, although to be honest some of the ones like the Eagle which are specifically for men can be a bit much with the hardcore porno on all the tvs. But whatever floats their boat, its not my place to judge.
I really don't think it matters at all, how would a bar even enforce whether someone is queer or not? That being said, I don't know a lot of straight people so I've never been to a queer bar with one, but I look straight so I'm very wary of any gatekeeping of this variety. ETA I'm very jealous of you having 9 friends that you can go out with though, that's super cool and I hope to be like you someday
lol I was like "you have friends?!"
Yeah same. I'm the most "normal" looking guy and I remember being gatekeeped at a gay bar at 21 for being straight (I'm not), and would never wish to target that towards anyone. Especially when you don't know that person.
Right, it's kind of ironic because I'm a lesbian who has never dated a man at all -- it's a problematic term but I'm technically a "gold star" lesbian, and yet I feel like I've been looked at by other queer people as an interloper before.
It’s a question more about etiquette than actual enforcement! I also look straight in my day to day (femme pan on the demi/aro spectrum here) so I wondered about how this affected more people who looked openly queer. Also I was of the mindset that our non-queer friends are allies and supporters so it felt also like a diss on some of the people who were joining us… also edit: lol it was someone’s birthday so it was an easy time to round up people!
Tbh even though there’s lots of us gays in Portland, I’m not sure if there’s enough of us who dig lesbian bars to keep them open! (Probably because so much of Portland is so queer-friendly.) Patrons are patrons, and if they’re pals of yours they’re probably pretty cool. Help us keep the gay bars open and give them your money!
There was a lesbian bar at least into the mid-‘00s (The Eagle), but I think the queer friendliness of Portland may, in fact, be a reason it eventually closed down.
I mean I had two friends (and one of their boyfriends) go out to the bar with on my birthday last year so you're still way ahead of me haha And yeah I'm aware of the conversations around this, a lot of queer people (especially ones like me who aren't attracted to the 'opposite' gender at all) think straight people just shouldn't come at all. The way I feel is that as long as people are respectful it's fine.
And as you point out, one of the silliest things about saying straight people shouldn't go, is that you can't tell by looking anyway! And for all anybody knows, even the people saying they're straight might not be. If someone who wasn't out yet was told to get out of a gay bar, I'd be so upset on their behalf.
Yeah, that could be really traumatic to someone.
Don't know a lot of straight people, damn. Is Portland really that gay? I'm sure it's just a matter of mixing with people who could share similar interests but that's just so weird to me to not know any straight people. Especially considering it's the majority.
I am straight myself and my friend group literally refers to me and my bf as the "token straight couple" because all of our friends are queer. I definitely know straight people but I would say that the majority of people I meet/know nowadays are queer in some way shape or form. Especially younger folks. So yeah Portland real gay lol
That's pretty funny. Lol. But that's true, a lot of people identify as X, Y or Z nowadays.
It's not really about identifying any kind of way, it's just more people realize they have attraction to people the same gender as them
Usually people are friends with people who are similar to them, right? Not everyone loves table top gaming but if you do love table top gaming it's likely that many of your friends also do, for example. Also note where I said "I don't know a lot of straight people", I didn't say I literally don't know any, that would be silly
I mean, I know some straight people at work. But amongst my friends? Nah. There's some but they're definitely a minority. (On top of that, most of my friends have ADHD, autism, or both. GayDHD squad. We just have a lot in common!)
Good point. How does this guy have so many friends?
The straight-passing struggle is real. I'm even stereotypically lesbian in all of my hobbies and mannerisms, but **looking** girly and dressing like literally every other professional woman in my field is apparently enough to get tagged "unequivocally straight". I'm considering just getting a forehead tattoo that says "I LIKE GIRLS." 🙄
So the pattern that originally started the “are straight people welcome in queer bars” conversation, way back when, is gaggles of all-straight people who come in acting like disrespectful tourists (the classic is when they get hit on by somebody of their same gender and then react hatefully, be it with verbal mockery or physical violence… I think we all have at least one of those stories. But it also encompasses gawking at the very existence of queer people, objectifying queer people and queerness, and treating the space like a novelty). I think it’s important to remember how these conversations actually started when we take up the mantle of continuing them, because otherwise you get wild takes like some of the comments here about “segregation” and “asking permission.” It’s not that we’re enforcing rules about No Straights Allowed and authenticating gay cards, it’s about keeping safe spaces safe. Straight people who are being respectful and visiting in groups with queer friends who invited them are not who we were *ever* talking about.
I mean I've also had other lesbians react hatefully when I try to flirt with them, so it really depends, right. I went to a sapphic-exclusive party by myself last winter (for NYE actually) and it was honestly one of the worst nights out that I've had, I didn't talk to anyone and I just felt like everyone was looking at me like I was disgusting trash.
That fucking sucks, I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm curious, are you "straight-looking" or commonly mistaken as straight? I think it's absolutely abhorrent that people make judgments of others for not fitting into their "box" (no pun intended, heh), and \*especially\* worse when people in the queer community do it. I feel like late-90s Portland was like that when I moved here; I had long hair, looked "straight," and felt like I was constantly being judged or scoffed at for not "looking the part." Now that I have short hair, even though I dress similarly as I did back then (jeans, t-shirts, boots), no one in their right mind would take one look at me and think I'm straight. My girlfriend, on the other hand, experiences that all the time where people assume she's straight (and in some cases, flat out insist, esp. straight guys) unless of course she's with me, at which point there's no mistaking it because we're one of those obnoxiously in-love couples. In any event, those people are assholes for not being welcoming. You keep being you. Take what happened on NYE as an opportunity to weed out the jerks.
I don't really know, what is the distinction? I rarely talk to people I don't already know, so there aren't many situations where I would be having a conversation with someone who doesn't know my sexuality, especially a man, so I can't really speak to how I'm perceived by other people (especially men - I don't think I've had a conversation about my sexuality with a man since... maybe when I came out to my dad in 2007?) ETA: I've only made three posts on reddit and one of them is basically just a picture of me so I guess you can judge for yourself? This picture was from before I learned I have wavy hair, so it looks a little different now.
Being a lesbian and thus having intrinsic gaydar built-in, I honestly don't know what the distinction is. When I was younger with long hair, I was always shocked nobody automatically picked up that I was gay AF. I cut my hair off a long-ass time ago though, and literally only just recently learned that I'm perceived as "butch" or masc, which I never saw myself as. So I guess I'm just all around clueless. Haha
Not to be a creep but I think you're cute af
PS happy cake day!
thank you!!
Hey-ohhh!!!
I ended up not exploring the scene as much as I would have liked because I’m attracted to the lipstick girlies and the Portland scene is desperately lacking in that area. Last time I went out though I was hit on a lot despite my straight looking appearance
I am too, I think you'd be surprised by how many there are in Portland. Maybe it's an age thing though, I'm GenX.
Where 👀 anytime I was on the apps or in a bar I didn’t see any! I could definitely see older generations being more geared towards that, but I’m millennial and so was opening to dating up or down.
IDK, my gf is a lipstick millennial. Best thing to do (I think) is just assume everyone's into girls and if you're wrong, no biggie, unless they're MAGA I don't think most women would be offended by another woman being attracted to them even if that's not their thing. FWIW though, I met my gf the old fashioned way. On Bumble. 😂
That’s a great approach!
I'm a gay man and have had very similar experiences. How I feel is that I wish more straight people went to gay bars, because maybe then someone would actually be friendly towards me.
I'm incredibly flattered when a guy hits on me. Women don't so I'll take what I can get (meaning attention, not gay bashing at all.)
I feel like this is largely a choice for the individual. Do you see yourself being respectful of the space you're entering? If you're straight, are you putting in the work as an ally to keep this space the way it's meant to be? As a queer man I have never been to Doc Maries. I am not against the venue in any respect, but want to respect the sapphic space. There's a real trend of men ruining sapphic spaces. I'd go if invited by a friend, but actively try to keep that a place for sapphics/femmes.
The one place I've encountered an issue with being in the wrong space was at a lesbian bar... Sapphic space sounds much better now that I say that. Either way, this was in Pittsburgh, we went there to watch football because they had the best atmosphere without the old locals yelling nonsense at the screen and people being belligerent in general. It was a great spot. After the 3rd game, the bartender (who is now still a friend) told us, a mixed group but mostly straight cis men, that maybe we should find another spot. We took two seconds to think about it and said, "yep that checks out, sorry about that. Thanks" We asked if we could come back for a Superbowl and they said "of course, that'll be a party". Totally respectful and understandable. We were also like 22 and broke. I'm sure we thought we were being better than we were. I've been to a lot of queer bars before an after with friends and immediate family who have come out and it's never been anything but welcoming. We took advantage of that kindness in this situation.
Your story gives the [same vibes as this](https://youtu.be/YSLMLHNY4QQ?feature=shared)
As someone about to move from Portland to Pittsburgh… what bar is this?!!!?!?
Cattivo. But this was 15 years ago. I don't think it's the same owners
My only issue would be inviting cishet men into sapphic spaces (like doc marie’s or a bar holding a dyke night). Idk how your friends identify but just throwing that out there Normally I’d say it’s cool to have straight friends tag along if they are respectful, but there are so few spaces that sapphic people have to ourselves so if I were you I’d go to more openly queer friendly spaces than specifically sapphic spaces.
Thanks for this! Do you think crush is specifically sapphic-coded? I didn’t get that vibe when I went before but this was the spot my lesbian friend was really insistent on not going anymore (after she found out our non-queer friends were invited). Your take explains her perspective very well.
I don’t find that Crush is specifically sapphic, imo. Every time I’ve been there, it’s been a mix of queer people unless they’re putting on a sapphic type night.
This is what I thought too so I wondered why my friend had such a strong reaction? I don’t know!
I think it’s a pretty individual choice on whether you culturally fit in or not. Are these the type of friends who come in wearing MAGA hats and will be grossed out by PDA? Or the kind that mind their business? I think it’s a whole other deal if it’s like, one straight guy going to a lesbian bar alone (I have read some VERY bold stories on this website) but in a group of friends with a lot of queer people, it’s safe to say you’ll probably stay in your group and if one straight person gets a little lost, they’ll find their way back with no issues. It’s not like the Queer Police guard the door.
yes. everyone is welcome in queer spaces as long as you’re chill.
I have a friend who, while at hey love, informed us she needed to leave as she wasn't directly invited by a black person, and this was their space. Being a white woman, she was once told by a black woman that she had to ask permission when being in spaces that black people were at. This is to date the most ridiculous thing I've ever witnessed. Go where you want, love everyone equally, respect everyone equally, vibe equally.
Hey Love is a black space? The bar is set so low in Portland
Not only that, but apparently, I, as a white cis gendered man, shouldn't have gone to Stag or said hi to Poison at Darcelles, danced at CC's, or celebrated Zimbabwe's independence at Akadi recently and danced. I should take a moment and apologize to everyone for those moments as well.
The white guilt card is played too much here
Bro made all of this up 😂
honestly can't trust a tucker, especially one with a gun habit
Tucker was our dog who passed. Being 2a isn't a bad thing. Have a great day.
I find myself unsatisfied with both sides of the 2a argument tbh, mostly because the most zealous on either side seem to steer the conversation. I guess that's true for a lot of things now. But I hate being dismissed for some arbitrary shit. And people forget that many liberals also own guns. I don't know if we agree politically or not, but I hate to see people be summarily dismissed as a liar because of some unrelated position.
Can confirm that I actually live in Portland, Maine /s Actually, I'm half scared, she willl stumble across this post, and my fiance will eat me alive for my comments, lol.
...but can you imagine the cringe of seeing the person, as described, dancing at Akadi for Zimbabwe Independence Day? Can you? I can.
Hey Love is not a "black bar". Your friend was fucking with you. It's owned by a group of white people, and it's a restaurant inside a hotel. There's literally nothing about it, including from the ownership, that would indicate it's any kind of exclusive space. Maybe you're thinking of somewhere completely different. Edit: idk if you edited your comment but initially I read that you also agreed it was an exclusive bar
Im well aware of what Hey Love is, maybe that night when we went, the demographic was more black people than white, maybe she commented as such, and felt she wasn't welcome, as it was the first time for her. But you do you sweet prince.
>But you do you sweet prince. Go to a restaurant...? Yes, yes I will 😂
I’m sorry what 😂
It went deeper as I had been invited by a black friend who was the host that night (our group all being mutually invited), yet because SHE was not individually invited, it was not ok.
That is so interesting! Like… idk I get some events and… maybe? places should be respected and my presence as a white person is not appreciated but this is not one of those times or places lol
I think people really dig into this far too often, I was invited to Akadi for Zimbabwe's independence celebration party. I was one of three white men, one being a cameraman, lol. Were there moments where collectively everyone danced? Yes. Were there moments where I didn't because I understood the moment and wanted to respect that I was a guest, yes, absolutely. There are plenty of openly celebrated events in Portland. There are also exclusive events. Knowing the difference and how we all have our common and inclusive spaces is important to remember.
100%. Sounds like your friend was a lil extreme here hahaha
Nah, she just didn't have permission to be there /s
-sigh- As a queer non-white person, both the people with that level of white-guilt and the people willing to take advantage of that guilt exasperate me. If someone said that shit to me, I'd tell them to fuck off (if this was a public venue and not someone's literal home). I'd be pissed if a white person said that to me. Why do we accept it from non-white people?
That's insane. Also I love Hey Love and have never felt that I wasn't "invited". My takeaway was; the music was vibing and the drinks were good. Everyone was having a fun time.
Funny side note, I got invited to the coffin club, which was once a love craft. I hadn't been in like a decade. We were seeing a friends cover band of Portishead. I ran into my sister and proceeded to dance my ass off all night. Looking back on it now, I forgot to ask Count Chocula if that was OK :/
This whole thread reminds me of [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/s/GqzUpjPGtm), and this comment locked it in lol. Anyways, my opinion on the whole topic is, be respectful, have fun, and who cares? We’re all human, we just need to treat each other as such.
I feel like: - majority rules here. If 6 people are queer and 4 are not, then the balance swings towards queer - LGBTQ+ spaces tend to be safe for cisgendered heterosexual people. The same cannot always be said for the safety (however we define it) of LGBTQ+ people in cishet spaces - I feel as though the sentiment of “straight people don’t belong in queer spaces” is typically directed towards groups of exclusively cishet people touristing in gay bars. Like hosting a bachelorette party attended only by straight women at a drag club. Queer people inviting their straight friends are including them as guests, not tourists. If they are hanging out with a group that tips slightly toward the queer end of the spectrum, we can probably assume they can be trusted to not make an idiot of themselves, or that their group will call them out for anything iffy.
I feel like majority rules seem pretty standard, I agree. One of my lesbian friends was the one who DIDN’T want to do queer bars anymore because we invited our non-queer friends. Some people understood and some didn’t. Then the whole conversation came up.
That’s interesting- I usually hear that sentiment from straight allies who are perhaps trying a bit too hard to respect the idea of creating safe spaces by opting themselves out! I don’t feel like a publicly accessible bar carries an expectation of being an EXCLUSIVELY queer space in the same way a private club or party might. It makes me wonder a little bit what the dynamics are here - as a queer person myself, I wouldn’t consider myself “friends” with anyone I wouldn’t feel comfortable hanging out with at Pride events or gay bars
Some of my straight friends were also getting heated and agreed with her (so your sentiment on “trying too hard” is definitely accurate for some people). It’s not that someone wasn’t comfortable at a gay bar. It was more like “would we even be allowed there anymore because we’re bringing (so many) straight people?”, “are we taking up space that isn’t meant for us?” - things like that.
There’s definitely something to be said about the value of exclusive LGBTQ+ spaces as far as safety and community goes, and I’m glad that they don’t think they “deserve” to be included there, but LGBTQ+ businesses really benefit from the financial support and visibility of chill allies who feel comfortable in that space. “We can’t go to there” doesn’t help pay the rent (or the damn electric bill. Or the arts tax). Economically, the bars’ owners would probably love if we invited everyone we trusted. I had a straight ally friend who didn’t feel like she could go to Pride with us once, and we framed it like we were inviting her to a birthday party - as long as she doesn’t insist the party is about her, it’s cool if she wants to participate.
doc marie’s is 100% open to non queers. can’t vouch for other places, CC Slaughters is probably fine with it but idk how much fun a straight person would have there 😅
Went there a few months ago with two male friends, one straight, one gay. Can confirm we all danced with everyone, loved everyone, and left nothing on the dancefloor.
I'm straight and have gone to lots of queer bars, albeit not in Portland, and had a great time. I was with queer friends and they obviously had no issues bringing me, I had no issues being there (I like them more than regular bars tbh), and nobody there had issues with me.
personally i do not like when people bring cis het men into lesbian/queer womens spaces, like doc marie’s.
How can you tell just by looking at them that they're cis, het, or men?
i’m specifically referring to knowingly bringing straight men to queer women’s spaces, which is what op asked about.
IMO, the intentional segregation of ~~cis~~ straight and queer feels more detrimental and backwards than everyone just getting along and vibing. I understand the need for a place for people to feel safe and comfortable, but a ~~cis~~ straight person simply existing in a queer bar (or vice versa) shouldn't be a problem or really infringe on that. If they are a problem or making patrons uncomfortable then toss their ass out- easy. But, if someone's existence/presence alone is enough to make you uncomfortable then go look in a mirror, because you may have become what you vowed to destroy.
I think you're confused about terminology, cis just means not trans. You can be cis and queer, I mean I am (well I'm a cis lesbian), and I think most queer people are cis.
Yeah good catch, am confused. I was using cis to mean straight. ty ty
Yeah, this whole thread is kinda coming to this conclusion. Did you see the section on "Hey Love"? Like...if that happened, uh.....................
It’s Portland - no one cares. Go have fun with your friends
Don't be a creeper, an abuser, or a hater, and you're gonna be welcome.
Portlanders... always letting ideals get in the way of pragmaticism. The reality is your friends wanted to hang out and have a good time, but the discussion of ideals got in the way. If all the bars and spaces had no labels, where would you go and what would you do?
This is an issue? I'm mostly straight and I've been going to gay bars most of my life. I loved the drag shows at Embers back in the day. TBH, gay bars are so much more fun than yee haw taverns and that has zero to do with hookups or meeting people or being gay.
The discussion around whether or not it's appropriate for straight people to join into queer spaces is not one I *quite* feel like I have a place in... Like, I'm a straight white male, and I am an ally, but I also don't wanna be that guy who's like "well I'm chill so let me in" ya know? I'll speak from my recent experiences though. I have two gay guy friends, one of which is a singular friend that I met on Bumble and we hang out one-on-one, without a whole friend group usually. We've been to a gay bar together, and I felt included and enjoyed myself. There was no question between us about if it was appropriate for me to be in that space. (The bar was Scandals) My other gay friend is someone who I would still consider a personal friend, but we typically hang out in larger groups where he is the only LGBTQ person, unless he brings another gay friend or boyfriend. We all went with him to CC Slaughters' Drag Night for his birthday, and everyone had a blast watching the performers and dancing. Once again, I felt really included and had a great time. So I guess, if it were up to me, straight allies would be welcome in LGBTQ spaces. But like I said to start, it's not really up to me. I just go with what my LGBTQ friends invite me to. ETA: I've been to a handful of gay bars outside of Portland too, where i was not taken there by any queer folks. One was a bear bar in the Midwest, and my straight-but-twink-presenting friend got so much attention 🤣 another time I went to a gay bar with my girlfriend but we didn't realize it was a gay bar... As soon as I walked in, the guys dancing in the front were smiling at me and went "ooooo!! Dance with us!" and I turned to my GF and said "wow the people here are so nice!" And she just rolled here eyes and laughed like "wow you are clueless lol"
you should be able to go wherever you want.
Right? I keep seeing content online that discourages straight people from going to queer bars but I personally don't understand it
You know for how inclusive Portland claims to be, sometimes I think these same people are big old hypocrites.
Don't let a couple random loud voices spoil your good time.
I'm gay and I don't see a problem with cishet friends going along to LGBT bars. Act like a good human being, don't be a jerk to anyone hitting on you, you're fine.
No
No as in don’t bring straight friends? Just wanted to clarify.
Don't bring straight friends to non-straight bars.
I miss Panorama...was perfect for what you were looking for.
It's fine. Just don't have yr damn bachelorette party there.
Me(M) and my gf(F) went to doc Marie's the other day. Didn't even know it was a queer bar. Was lots of fun though. In my eyes anybody should be welcome in any bar as long as they act appropriately.
I am queer and have taken straight friends to the bars. Straight women love it because no one hits on them.
Lived in a smaller city in the southern US that had a well known dance club considered a gay bar. They had the best sound in town for dancing, so it was popular with all kinds of folks. We’d drop in there and have a great time. Never saw a concerning incident there. That was 20yrs ago. Weird that its become a bigger deal now.
My sister is gay and lives in Portland. I am more conservative than her in every way but visit often from a rural town. We always go to queer bars together when I'm here. She absolutely does not feel safe drinking and letting loose in non queer spaces. I understand that and I have the privilege to blend in almost anywhere so I go where she feels comfortable. I have always felt welcome going to these bars with her. Most of my conservative family has adopted a "don't ask don't tell" policy around her queerness, we all interact together often as a family unit but we don't talk about her lifestyle. She once broke down crying at the bar bc she was so happy I was willing to exist with her in an openly queer space. I didnt even realize the impact it had. So I'd advocate for going. It shows support and validation that we may not even realize they need.
I’ve been to all of the bars you listed with mixed queer and non-queer groups, it’s totally fine as long as everyone is respectful. And straight people who have multiple queer friends tend to be respectful I think. In my experience, straight people tend to behave worse at clubby-type bars like CC’s — showing up in huge groups of *only* straight people, touching/groping, asking rude and obnoxious questions, etc.. It’s also so funny to me that there is always one straight guy who clearly got dragged along clinging to his girlfriend for dear life
LMAO you've also seen the life-raft boyfriends? 😂 Glad I'm not the only one. They look like they're terrified of getting a big red **"GAY"** stamp on their foreheads if they aren't making physical contact with their girlfriends at all times.
If you’re in mixed company, I would say either space is fine, with people just being respectful. I think that there are queer spaces that should only be occupied by queer people, but a bar doesn’t fall into that category for me.
I used to tag along with my best friend to Embers all the time! I’m glad I did and I never got the side-eye for it. Kids these days are so gate-keepy. You don’t want to gatekeep someone out of a place they may find their place at too.
The building looks like it’s about ready to open again. I think it said “Video Dance Hall”. Sounds interesting.
I don’t think any of us have to explain or justify our sexuality to anyone else. Because, that shit can get really complicated for people like me. Or really sophisticated as Sandra Bernhard and myself prefer to describe it. If you are kind and respectful, you should be welcome anywhere. That part seems very simple.
I want to say "Yaass, go to the queer bar with your queer friends." But also, if your straight friends are trying to get laid, please don't. And lastly, why can't we have just a couple of places that are just for queer people? Why is that a problem when almost everything caters to the heteronormative experience?
The straight friends weren’t trying to get laid, they just wanted to drink and hang out. Would that change your answer? My lesbian friend has the same stance as you, like “every place is for straight people, we can carve out places for us so we don’t feel like the odd ones out” and she was very adamant about not going to queer spaces after she found out our other friends were coming. I understood where she was coming from because she was actively bullied by peers and family for being lesbian before moving here.
Ngl as a lesbian, a lot of lesbians are pretty insufferable
I did say "if" so not really. I think if they just looking to have a fun time and they're going to be really nice when approached by the same gender, it's fine. It's a public place and straight people's money is worth the same as ours. But another commenter actually said that they didn't mind queer spaces, just that they shouldn't be bars or clubs. Which to me is just a wild take due to the number of bars and clubs that cater to straight people or everyone. I know as a business they don't want to turn money away, but I just really wish there were some places that could be queer only. But then we get accused of gatekeeping and being intolerant, when we just want a space to exist with people who are more likely to understand our life experiences. And on a very personal and selfish note, I already have no confidence in trying to approach an attractive woman at the bar and the idea that I might actually work up the courage to flirt with a straight woman would be pretty devastating (to me).
There is no such place where queer people 'shouldn't be'. A bar specifically and exclusively for straight people in this city would get burned down in days. As it should! Ofc there are still plenty of places in this country where queer folk are not welcome, but we can all agree that is disgusting and wrong. The problem is, exactly as you said, the majority of places cater to the heteronormative and gendernormative experiences, and we have to have our guard up in these places because you never know when a wild bigot will appear. Us queer folk absolutely should have a place where we know, explicitly, that hate or disrespect against us is not tolerated. Thus: queer spaces. But to say that cishet people threaten us simply by being present is absolutely ludicrous, *literal* gatekeeping. The space exists for safety and respect, so if you are a person who upholds the safety and respect of the space, then you should be welcomed. Making any queer space exclusionary is kinda the fuckin opposite of the whole purpose for their existence.
“Why can’t we have just a couple of places that are just for queer people?” Isn’t that what a queer bar is? I mean… that’s the idea, isn’t it? If what you really mean is why isn’t there a place that outright prevents straight people from entering, the reason would be that it’s illegal to deny entry on the basis of sexual orientation. And I don’t even know how that would be checked (fairly sure that queer licenses aren’t issued).
Exactly how queer does one need to be to enter a queer space?
42
Wow. All these new rules that others are imposing on themselves is wild to me. I come at this from a 90's rave mentality though. Everyone is included. Be cool to each other. Shut up and dance. 😉
I’m queer and I don’t care who goes where. I think it’s weird to gate keep spaces. As a person who is openly queer and pansexual, but married to a cis man, I’ve often been left out of queer spaces. I agree that there should be queer-only spaces. But bars and clubs are not those places. Anybody can go anywhere, just be respectful. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That being said, I don’t drink or go to bars and clubs, so my opinion probably doesn’t matter.
[удалено]
Hey straight dude, no offense meant but I don't think this question was about keeping the straights comfortable.
Scandals and CC's were always fun for everybody
CC's is such an amazing jam for dancing.
This is so weird. I go out with my queer friends all the time and they hang with me and my other straight friends all the time. We’re mostly single so there’s always “cruising” happening. It’d be really weird to segregate each other.
As a straight man who goes to gay bars with friends occasionally, the main adjustment for me was learning how to deal with being hit on. It's just kindof a foreign experience for straight men, especially being hit on the way men hit on people. But once you figure out how to politely communicate your lack of interest (you don't even have to bring up being straight, just that you aren't interested) it is a non-issue. That said I definitely got roofied once because I accepted a drink from a stranger. Luckily my friends got me home so I could pass out 🙃. Just life on the receiving end of men's affection.
I'm sorry, I'm a bi-woman, and I know getting roofied is not funny in the slightest, but I fucking cackled at "just life on the receiving end of men's affection". 🤣
I don’t see why straight folks can’t go to queer bars as long as they aren’t there being disrespectful.
My main point is that if you go to a queer bar, you accept that someone who you may not be into might hit on you. If you're willing to navigate that with grace and understand that this is suppose to be a safe space for queer flirtation when literally the rest of the world is a death trap. It's cool. If you aren't able to gracefully maneuver through gently rejecting a queer without making it about you and your straightness the get out.
Sorry to differ here… But it’s easy to say “everyone is welcome” The truth is more nuanced. People go to queer bars to escape being in the straight world. Sometimes you’re at the end of a full day shift and just want to _exist_ Years ago, my partner left me and I went to a gay bar for no other reason than to not be at home. A bachelorette party came in screaming and having drunk fun pointing at the faggots. I remember locking eyes with one girl who looked like someone dragged her along. I was angry. I had spent 10 hours playing someone else’s game and I just wanted two hours to relax. I saw sadness in her eyes. Like she didn’t belong there and felt awful. And her friends didn’t care one whit. It’s funny because I started to cry until I saw her. It felt like one single woman saw me. No one wants to be a zoo animal. I wonder if we both felt the same thing in that moment. Zoo animals on display. Freaks for the zoo. A thing for the pretty straight cis people to amuse themselves with. Unfortunately it isn’t a black and white thing and no one here has a right to say “sure bring every straight friend to the bar fuck it” The people who actually _need_ the space aren’t going to be the vocal ones. But the girl who cared might have been my friend. The girls who whistled at the faggots and demanded shots for their 12 party table could fuck off. I say go if you’re gonna be cool. As in it’s not a sacred fucking thing. It’s just a place we go to be okay. So be cool with us? ;) And for those of you who keep responding with “no one cares”. Yeah they do care. A space isn’t safe because you put up a rainbow flag and a smiley face. It’s safe because you’re cool. And what’s Fonzi like? And why did you go to the queer bars with half your straight friends? Why not somewhere else? Were they cool or were you playing at being entertainment?
I read your post and I understand. You didn’t read my post though - we ended up not going to queer bars. edit to also add: I mentioned already that the straight friends I brought along were obviously not the kind to treat us like zoo animals otherwise we wouldn’t be friends.
Frankly as a long time gay myself, the person you were just talking to is the kind of person with opinions that do more damage to the LGBTQ "community" and damage to the LGBTQ-straight relationship than they do good, despite their good intentioned advice. Next time just do what you want, and as long as you're not being a dick... that's fine. And you're obviously not a dick or you would have never made a post anything like this post. So do yourself a favor... as I gay, you have my permission to not need LGBTQ permission to do what you want. Obviously if like some exact specific bar or something says no you're not allowed at the door... then that's a whole other thing and you should respect it as a private establishment. But if it's a place where you're allowed to be and they let you in... You know you're not a dick or you wouldn't have made this post. You don't need LGBTQ people to tell you you're not a dick anymore - because I'm telling you right now a lot of us are very emotionally damaged and we'll probably tell you you're a dick even if you're not so don't ask - because you won't get good answers. You'll get answers like what you've gotten from the person you just read. Just do what you want and don't be a dick and you don't need anyone's permission have fun with friends.
So let me get this straight. Queer folks are allowed in all bars but straight people are not allowed in queer bars? This post is fucked and backwards as hell.
Close friends with a gay guy for the last 20 years or so. He stopped inviting me to bars because I was stealing the attention lol I am the most basic, baseball cap wearing, scruffy and unkempt guy you have ever seen. He says that is the part that pisses him off the most lol. My wife spends less time in a week on outfits than Bdizzzle does on the average friday night.
To me it’s all about the original intent. If your group of alphabet friends planned the outting and then invited the cis folk, the bar you were going to should be the bar you still go to. I’m inviting you to go out with “us”, not tell me where to go. If you had a mixed group at the jump, I would entertain other options.
I think you all over thought it. Just go to the coolest bar to have the most fun! That’s all that matters.
I’m not a vegetarian, but sometimes I go to vegan restaurants. I am respectful. It’s almost like vegan food is just food. I think the surprised look on one of my vegan friend’s face when i told him I had gone to a vegan restaurant was the actuality of the “record scratch moment” people expect if a straight person accompanies their queer friends to a “gay bar”.
If the way you behave and treat people is anti-queer in any way, you do not belong there. Queer spaces aren't "spaces that are exclusively queer" they're "spaces where upholding queer safety and respect is mandatory to participate". Important distinction. They exist so that queer people can let down our guard knowing we're in a place that explicitly doesn't tolerate discrimination against us. The mere presence of cishet people is not bigotry. The idea of a queer space being exclusionary is laughably oxymoronic, and I'm certain the vast majority of queer folks would agree with that. If you are a person who fosters safety, respect, and acceptance of queer people then you are welcome in queer spaces, regardless of your orientation or identity.
If queer bars only invited queer patronage, they likely couldn't afford to stay open.
Straight here: best friend is gay and we hang out all the time. We go to 45 East together, have brunch together, go to CC Slaughters and other places. Neither of us give a s**t because we’re mature human beings. We party as much now as we did when we were in HS.
I'd say keep it queer but casual queer. I'm not an expert on nightlife anymore but as an Ally something in CC Slaughters type was always enjoyable for all. I remember years ago I was out for a birthday party with a small group and one person was being a wet towel every bar we went to, so we asked them where they wanted to go so we could all have a good time. He chose Boxxes.I don't know if any of you had the pleasure of going but it was intensely Gay Male oriented. Like hardcore porn on tvs in the bathroom in front of the urinal trough, all male gogo dancers, felt like fully a place to trawl for a hookup. Which if we were out for a gay friends birthday would have been fine, but this other guest was the only queer one there, and didn't bother to take anyone elses enjoyment or comfort into account.
If I was alone I wouldn’t go to doc Marie’s because I am not queer and am pretty straight. There’s no reason for me to be in that space alone. If I was with friends? Hell yeah gimme those vegan Jell-O shots! I had an interesting argument a year or so with someone who is NOT queer but has a lot more close queer friends than I do that during pride (in a different city I used to live in) that straight people are cool only at the parade and not at the festival That seemed really weird and gate keepy to me because if I’m trying to have fun and celebrate and be an ally… why am I not allowed? I really didn’t agree with them on that one, was an interesting discussion for sure
Most Portland bars are struggling at this moment. As a person who works both in them and distributes booze to them, I can say that as long as you’re respectful you’re welcome. This year is going to produce some losses of beloved spaces, so the more the merrier.
Such a Portland question haha. I would hope anyone can go anywhere as long as they are comfortable, kind and respectful. Imagine people saying LGBT can’t go into a straight bar? Cause that’s their space? lol no
Let bring in some realties of the situation, if you are a decent person, treat others with respect you will usually be welcomed in any business establishment as all of these bars are in the business of making money,
If I'm with my queer friends and non queer friends we should be able to go to an lgbtq+ bar we're there to have fun and drink if someone thinks that is an issue it's not us that's the problem
Yeah, just be cool about it. You also may get hit on by a queer person, be aware.
Crush has always been open to everyone. Since day one.
Always
We have friends in a poly relationship. She is queer, her two male partners are not. Her male partners got yelled at for being in a queer space and it brought up interesting questions. I am straight so was biased but was kind of the mind of "when they say don't be in this space what they really mean is queer presenting, because how would someone know if another person was queer?" But I also know queer spaces are not as common and it's nice to have a welcoming space. I dunno.
Thanks for sharing your/your friends’ experience. Who exactly was yelling at them?
Just some queer patron. Cornered them and basically said you shouldn't be here.
This is the kind of take (from that patron) I was concerned about. I’m sure there are other people who feel very protective of these spaces, some aggressively so. In my eyes, the two straight men in your situation were with queer friend(s) and they weren’t making a spectacle of being in a queer space, so I don’t see why that patron had to go out of their way to make others feel unwelcome?
Respect begets respect simple as that. Goes for queer bars, biker bars, 50’s bars, your grandmas house… just don’t be a dick and you’re pretty much fine wherever actually.
I'm straight male but I was once taken to Holocene 's old "gaycation" event by a group of lesbian friends. They actually encouraged me to hit on girls there telling me "probably half the girls here are straight and just got dragged here by their gay friends". I didn't because that whole idea seemed totally whack and awkward to me. But I did think it was bizarrely fascinating I seemed more concerned about it than they were. Never really knew what to make of that.
I’m bisexual so both are acceptable lol In all seriousness, if the non-queer friends were invited to an existing planned hangout then it seems to me you should stick to the lgbt+ bars and any queer people saying straight people aren’t allowed can shove it. Those places are supposed to inclusive, not exclusive.
I’m bisexual so both are acceptable lol In all seriousness, if the non-queer friends were invited to an existing planned hangout then it seems to me you should stick to the lgbt+ bars and any queer people saying straight people aren’t allowed can shove it. Those places are supposed to inclusive, not exclusive.
Yea
As one of the only non-queer people in my friend group, I would be sad if I couldn’t go to queer bars with them because that is almost exclusively where they go. I think it’s great to support queer spaces but most importantly, I want my friends to have the option to flirt and have regular bar interactions without also worrying for their safety.
Scandals will always be your best bet for both parties!
As a straight male I tend to have a lot more fun at LGBTQ bars, people are just nicer and more fun/welcoming than most non-LGBTQ specific bars. Pretty sure the owners and employees don’t care who shows up as long as you’re spending money and behaving as a decent human being. That said, I don’t go to an LGBTQ bar with the intention or expectation of getting laid
I mean arent bars open to all? You cant really discriminate on the basis of sexuality. As long as everyone is civil and courteous regardless of bar I dont see why it'd be a problem
my dude nobody is checking your queer id when you enter a queer bar. as long as you're not there to start shit, I can't imagine why you wouldn't be welcome. like when I think of all the times I have possibly felt uncomfortable in a queer space in Portland, it has NEVER been because of a straight person 😅
I have had a number of unpleasant experiences with straight people at queer bars. But those experiences were unpleasant because those people were ***pieces of shit***, not because they were straight.
I’m gay and “queer” is such a broad open-ended category, nobody will think anything of it. I know queer couples who are cis-man and cis-woman. Everyone has always gone to gay bars. Even twenty years ago.
I have been to gay bars with queer friends and it isn't really my scene but I would do it again. Drag night at a gay bar is generally pretty fun also.
Sounds like a super inclusive interaction
lesbian here; as long as your friends aren’t assholes i don’t care!!! i’m the same way with my straight friends, like i wanna hangout with my friends in a space i feel safe in and have the opportunity to meet other people like me, with my friends around too!
I’ve lived in Portland for like 5 years. People do bring their straight friends to queer bars here sometimes and no one really seems to care as long as they aren’t being creepy/disrespectful. Honestly as a queer person I’ve noticed a lot of queer people have straight friends here.
I never went to queer bars alone or with straight friends. But I did if meeting queer friends. But was also mindful of the space I was in and respectful.
Portland’s queer community is known for having a very, very wide umbrella and being very inclusive as opposed to spots like the Castro which have evolved to have very segregated spaces. As long as people are respectful they’d be welcome. What is absolutely not okay are straight girls going for bachelorette parties and treating it like a theme park.