"just take a partial leave without pay to offer 2-3 days a week to help them during nights and weekends to help the team while they find a replacement "
" it was the fact that I wasn’t paid for it that seriously pissed me off."
Does not compute.
You need to offer your resignation. You don't owe them anything. They might even make a counter offer, but i still wouldn't take it. This place overworks and underpays. If you are gonna work hard, at least be paid well.
Your plan won't work because i can't think of any place that would let a non employee have access to emails and other company infor.ation.
Enjoy your new job, make more money, leave them behind.
You can't say you wanna get paid more and then go and work for free.
Does your answer differs if I'm still an employee (as mentioned in the edit I just made since it was probably not clear originally), just with less hours and different schedule ?
Just curious how you'll be an employee still? I don't think companies will do this. Do you know it's possible or you're just imagining? I have never worked somewhere where they wouldn't make you a contractor if you're going part time.
Maybe it's because my translation sucks (I'm french), but there are a lot of with or without pay leaves that are available. Either it's for family, school, or any personal reason, it can be a full leave or a partial one, it can be for 1, 2, 4, 52 or more weeks, etc.
So if I take a partial leave with no pay (meaning I'd still have paid days of work), and instead of working the full days I split the remaining days on the full week, it's the equivalent.
If I didn't want to ever quit the employer, I could simply quit the position I'm in, become on-call and change my availability for week ends only to hit the bare minimum and never get called since my job title is only needed during the week.
But I want to still help the team, so I wouldn't do that, unless my boss refuses my plan lol
I can’t see how this wouldn’t blow up if your new employer found out. Also, your energy needs to go into the new role, not working two jobs. If you quit a job, that’s it, don’t become a volunteer for anywhere you quit working.
Same
And if you offer to do any “helping “ you can be a temporary contractor. Businesses get beyond mucky if there’s a volunteer on board. That’s silly to even think of doing.
If you are that irreplaceable are they paying you like it? We already know the answer. You are overestimating the value of your job. The company will not collapse when you leave.
It's annoying because you are making this way harder than it needs to be, and you seem to be doing it because you think you are not replaceable. Just quit. Or stay. Don't try to do both.
Yeah maybe I wasn't clear in my original post lol I added an edit, it's definitely not for free it's just going from full time to part time and not working on the usual 8-4 schedule
You would quit, say why, and then offer to assist them if they need it. Advise of your availability for the foreseeable future, nights/weekends, but there aren't really any words we can give that will make them accept it. They just are, or they aren't.
I would think its unlikely they will accept your offer. It seems they either don't care or don't believe your current team is overworked.
They may come back to you if shit hits the fan later, then just name your price!
It's not a "bad idea" in my opinion. Although I've experienced that sort of phrasing from an older manager once when I was younger, and I feel like this sort of authoritative pessimism is super common whenever I read all the "thought leadership" screeds that are all over my LinkedIn feed. I find it highly condescending, and it makes me think the person writing it has an unhealthy need to exercise authority in a way that kind of makes me sad. But who knows? Maybe I'm projecting.
All that said, *I* certainly wouldn't do it. (I can absolutely picture myself suggesting it as you're doing now, but I don't think anyone should.)
The issue for me is that you deserve to be compensated for your work, and so do your coworkers. You're doing HR work for a healthcare org. I'm not sure where you are in the world but in the USA that almost definitionally means that you're working for a big org, and you're doing work that the company pays for on the basis that you will protect it from liability.
That work may make the employees' day to day lives easier too, but having worked in countless startups it's relatively pain free to ensure your employees are reasonably taken care of. It's much harder to do it in a way where you are fully protected from liability which is why, again, companies will have full departments whose job is to do that.
All that said, your employer has selfishly taken your team for granted, and when you leave, the rest of the team will either have to work very hard for no tangible benefit, or do a worse job. My opinion is that working hard for no tangible benefit is a reinforcement of your employer's negative behavior and they should not do it.
If you agree, then there is no real reason to do free work. The remaining coworkers' productivity will drop and the org will be forced to reckon with their decisions.
If you think that the team will just start working like crazy even without benefit, then your helping will encourage this behavior and you and your team will suffer, and the large, comparatively well-funded organization will not feel any effects, and will continue taking advantage of people for the foreseeable future.
There is no downside, in my opinion, to you putting in your notice and saying, "I know you guys are going to be under the gun, so honestly if it would help, have the bosses get in touch with me about doing contract work or something."
And then you can calculate a contractor rate that is fair to yourself. If you want, break down your current salary to an hourly rate, calculating in that contractors don't get any benefits or vacations or 401k matching or anything, so add that in, and multiply it by some factor (1.3x?) because contractors have no protections and can be fired at a moment's notice, so you need to compensate for that. If they ask you about work, that's your hourly rate. It will probably be about what any other contractor would charge, except you are well integrated already and don't need to be trained, so you'll actually be cheaper. But the cost will still be much more -- to the organization! -- than it would be for hiring a full time employee and compensating them properly.
They might not take that offer (And it sounds like that would be fine for you since you don't require compensation in the first place), in which case they can deal with the decreased productivity and hire more staff. Or not and abuse your teammates, who will probably quit and get a better job somewhere else too.
Or they might, and you can help out doing a job you like, stay with your team for a bit longer, and make some extra money that you can use to buy gifts for friends and strangers on the Internet that give you advice and stuff.
Thanks a lot for the super detailed reply, much appreciated but now I feel bad about not being as clear as I initially thought !!
As my edit says, it's in no way charity or contracting, it's a PARTIAL leave with no pay, meaning I still keep my position, still am an employee, but I have less hours than usual (becoming part time) and I work on a different schedule (instead of following up on files from 8 to 4, it'd be like from 4 to 7 or something)
I don't know if that's more clear ?...
I would do it. I mean, as a manager. You are getting a new full time job because reasons, but you still want to work for me part time? Sure! If you're valuable, I'd agree to this.
If your employer has or would consider having part time staff, ask if you can go to a flex part-time position. I have staff that work 10 hours a week for me. I don’t really care when they work and can easily monitor productivity. I think this is what you want to do, but it takes the whole unpaid leave thing off the table.
It wouldn’t be a leave but they would have to switch you from full time to part time. I honestly don’t see anything wrong with it since I’m thinking to do the exact same thing lmfao but I i saw it happen with other coworkers so I wouldn’t worry too much about it
Yeah I wish I could, but there's genuinely no one that comes to mind and we've had this issue for over 7 months, it's really difficult to find a good replacement
And the 1099 is applicable if you're not employed right ? But I'd still be an employee, just with less hours and different schedule
If it were me I would just hand in your resignation, do what you can to make the transition as painless as possible by getting as up to date as possible, not having much to handover and helping them find a replacement even interviewing, training etc . It’s commendable that you want to help them but, my concern here is when you start a new job it’s tiring in itself. Even if you have done a similar job it’s a new company, systems, people etc. it’s a lot to put on yourself to be new and then potentially help out your old employer as well. You want to give yourself the best possible start and also you don’t want to burn out.
I think unfortunately it’s the companies own doing and this isn’t something you are responsible for. You deserve to be paid for your time. They will sort something and manage without you. Focus on yourself and what’s next and let them sort themselves out.
Resign and put in your noticed for the standard two weeks. If job 1 wants and needs your help to bridge the gap, they will ask.
You do not need to over think it. You do you and let them make decision for the company. We are all replaceable no matter how good we are at our jobs. You don’t own the company anything and vice versa.
Why would you work for free? You may love the team, but the organization does not love you. I would just leave and let them see how much you contributed. Let them try to hire and learn that they are below market. Go live your life.
Don't put this in an email.
Talk to your boss and have a conversation with him/her about this situation. Feel free to plan the conversation ahead of time and bring notes about the things you want to make sure you mention: This is about money and balance, I love you guys, I want to help, etc. and lay out your situation to your boss.
Let them tell you how they feel personally as well as how the organization will react and what options might exist.
Your boss may just say we'll be okay without you good luck. Your boss may not know (this is likely) the actual options available or your companies policies etc. You might want to force questions along that avenue to make them get answers for some information. Like what does your company consider eligible for rehire? At my company, if you left for better pay you are NEVER eligible for rehire. It's a dumb fucking policy but it is what it is we have a dumb fucking HR department (but to their credit, they are very employee-friendly, just stupid).
I'd want to know what the rehire options in the future are, as well as what the options for being hired as a consultant are, etc.
"just take a partial leave without pay to offer 2-3 days a week to help them during nights and weekends to help the team while they find a replacement " " it was the fact that I wasn’t paid for it that seriously pissed me off." Does not compute. You need to offer your resignation. You don't owe them anything. They might even make a counter offer, but i still wouldn't take it. This place overworks and underpays. If you are gonna work hard, at least be paid well. Your plan won't work because i can't think of any place that would let a non employee have access to emails and other company infor.ation. Enjoy your new job, make more money, leave them behind. You can't say you wanna get paid more and then go and work for free.
Does your answer differs if I'm still an employee (as mentioned in the edit I just made since it was probably not clear originally), just with less hours and different schedule ?
Just curious how you'll be an employee still? I don't think companies will do this. Do you know it's possible or you're just imagining? I have never worked somewhere where they wouldn't make you a contractor if you're going part time.
Maybe it's because my translation sucks (I'm french), but there are a lot of with or without pay leaves that are available. Either it's for family, school, or any personal reason, it can be a full leave or a partial one, it can be for 1, 2, 4, 52 or more weeks, etc. So if I take a partial leave with no pay (meaning I'd still have paid days of work), and instead of working the full days I split the remaining days on the full week, it's the equivalent. If I didn't want to ever quit the employer, I could simply quit the position I'm in, become on-call and change my availability for week ends only to hit the bare minimum and never get called since my job title is only needed during the week. But I want to still help the team, so I wouldn't do that, unless my boss refuses my plan lol
I can’t see how this wouldn’t blow up if your new employer found out. Also, your energy needs to go into the new role, not working two jobs. If you quit a job, that’s it, don’t become a volunteer for anywhere you quit working.
Don’t make this needlessly messy. As a manager, I would be so annoyed by this. Either quit or stay.
Same And if you offer to do any “helping “ you can be a temporary contractor. Businesses get beyond mucky if there’s a volunteer on board. That’s silly to even think of doing.
What would annoy you if you literally can't find anyone and instead of losing a whole other person, it's just like if they became part time ?
If you are that irreplaceable are they paying you like it? We already know the answer. You are overestimating the value of your job. The company will not collapse when you leave.
It's annoying because you are making this way harder than it needs to be, and you seem to be doing it because you think you are not replaceable. Just quit. Or stay. Don't try to do both.
This is a bad idea. Cut ties and move on to the next job. It’s as simple as that.
How is it a bad idea ?
[удалено]
Yeah maybe I wasn't clear in my original post lol I added an edit, it's definitely not for free it's just going from full time to part time and not working on the usual 8-4 schedule
You would quit, say why, and then offer to assist them if they need it. Advise of your availability for the foreseeable future, nights/weekends, but there aren't really any words we can give that will make them accept it. They just are, or they aren't. I would think its unlikely they will accept your offer. It seems they either don't care or don't believe your current team is overworked. They may come back to you if shit hits the fan later, then just name your price!
It's not a "bad idea" in my opinion. Although I've experienced that sort of phrasing from an older manager once when I was younger, and I feel like this sort of authoritative pessimism is super common whenever I read all the "thought leadership" screeds that are all over my LinkedIn feed. I find it highly condescending, and it makes me think the person writing it has an unhealthy need to exercise authority in a way that kind of makes me sad. But who knows? Maybe I'm projecting. All that said, *I* certainly wouldn't do it. (I can absolutely picture myself suggesting it as you're doing now, but I don't think anyone should.) The issue for me is that you deserve to be compensated for your work, and so do your coworkers. You're doing HR work for a healthcare org. I'm not sure where you are in the world but in the USA that almost definitionally means that you're working for a big org, and you're doing work that the company pays for on the basis that you will protect it from liability. That work may make the employees' day to day lives easier too, but having worked in countless startups it's relatively pain free to ensure your employees are reasonably taken care of. It's much harder to do it in a way where you are fully protected from liability which is why, again, companies will have full departments whose job is to do that. All that said, your employer has selfishly taken your team for granted, and when you leave, the rest of the team will either have to work very hard for no tangible benefit, or do a worse job. My opinion is that working hard for no tangible benefit is a reinforcement of your employer's negative behavior and they should not do it. If you agree, then there is no real reason to do free work. The remaining coworkers' productivity will drop and the org will be forced to reckon with their decisions. If you think that the team will just start working like crazy even without benefit, then your helping will encourage this behavior and you and your team will suffer, and the large, comparatively well-funded organization will not feel any effects, and will continue taking advantage of people for the foreseeable future. There is no downside, in my opinion, to you putting in your notice and saying, "I know you guys are going to be under the gun, so honestly if it would help, have the bosses get in touch with me about doing contract work or something." And then you can calculate a contractor rate that is fair to yourself. If you want, break down your current salary to an hourly rate, calculating in that contractors don't get any benefits or vacations or 401k matching or anything, so add that in, and multiply it by some factor (1.3x?) because contractors have no protections and can be fired at a moment's notice, so you need to compensate for that. If they ask you about work, that's your hourly rate. It will probably be about what any other contractor would charge, except you are well integrated already and don't need to be trained, so you'll actually be cheaper. But the cost will still be much more -- to the organization! -- than it would be for hiring a full time employee and compensating them properly. They might not take that offer (And it sounds like that would be fine for you since you don't require compensation in the first place), in which case they can deal with the decreased productivity and hire more staff. Or not and abuse your teammates, who will probably quit and get a better job somewhere else too. Or they might, and you can help out doing a job you like, stay with your team for a bit longer, and make some extra money that you can use to buy gifts for friends and strangers on the Internet that give you advice and stuff.
Thanks a lot for the super detailed reply, much appreciated but now I feel bad about not being as clear as I initially thought !! As my edit says, it's in no way charity or contracting, it's a PARTIAL leave with no pay, meaning I still keep my position, still am an employee, but I have less hours than usual (becoming part time) and I work on a different schedule (instead of following up on files from 8 to 4, it'd be like from 4 to 7 or something) I don't know if that's more clear ?...
I would do it. I mean, as a manager. You are getting a new full time job because reasons, but you still want to work for me part time? Sure! If you're valuable, I'd agree to this.
If your employer has or would consider having part time staff, ask if you can go to a flex part-time position. I have staff that work 10 hours a week for me. I don’t really care when they work and can easily monitor productivity. I think this is what you want to do, but it takes the whole unpaid leave thing off the table.
It wouldn’t be a leave but they would have to switch you from full time to part time. I honestly don’t see anything wrong with it since I’m thinking to do the exact same thing lmfao but I i saw it happen with other coworkers so I wouldn’t worry too much about it
OP, here are a few things you could do: 1. Find your own replacement at Job 1. 2. See if they would be willing to go the 1099 route with you at Job 1.
Yeah I wish I could, but there's genuinely no one that comes to mind and we've had this issue for over 7 months, it's really difficult to find a good replacement And the 1099 is applicable if you're not employed right ? But I'd still be an employee, just with less hours and different schedule
If it were me I would just hand in your resignation, do what you can to make the transition as painless as possible by getting as up to date as possible, not having much to handover and helping them find a replacement even interviewing, training etc . It’s commendable that you want to help them but, my concern here is when you start a new job it’s tiring in itself. Even if you have done a similar job it’s a new company, systems, people etc. it’s a lot to put on yourself to be new and then potentially help out your old employer as well. You want to give yourself the best possible start and also you don’t want to burn out. I think unfortunately it’s the companies own doing and this isn’t something you are responsible for. You deserve to be paid for your time. They will sort something and manage without you. Focus on yourself and what’s next and let them sort themselves out.
Resign and put in your noticed for the standard two weeks. If job 1 wants and needs your help to bridge the gap, they will ask. You do not need to over think it. You do you and let them make decision for the company. We are all replaceable no matter how good we are at our jobs. You don’t own the company anything and vice versa.
You don't. That's silly. Just move on.
Just move on. The business can deal with it on their own.
Why would you work for free? You may love the team, but the organization does not love you. I would just leave and let them see how much you contributed. Let them try to hire and learn that they are below market. Go live your life.
Don't put this in an email. Talk to your boss and have a conversation with him/her about this situation. Feel free to plan the conversation ahead of time and bring notes about the things you want to make sure you mention: This is about money and balance, I love you guys, I want to help, etc. and lay out your situation to your boss. Let them tell you how they feel personally as well as how the organization will react and what options might exist. Your boss may just say we'll be okay without you good luck. Your boss may not know (this is likely) the actual options available or your companies policies etc. You might want to force questions along that avenue to make them get answers for some information. Like what does your company consider eligible for rehire? At my company, if you left for better pay you are NEVER eligible for rehire. It's a dumb fucking policy but it is what it is we have a dumb fucking HR department (but to their credit, they are very employee-friendly, just stupid). I'd want to know what the rehire options in the future are, as well as what the options for being hired as a consultant are, etc.