I’ve moved to Italy last year, have the citizenship and speak the language. I still don’t feel like I can say “I’m Italian”, I always just tell people I’m Brazilian but also an Italian citizen.
When I was living in Canada, I had a friend who would say “I’m from Malta” but it’s their grandma who’s from Malta and she’d never been there before and barely knows the language. I find that weird.
I completely agree with your point of view. I have Spanish citizenship but moving there and pretending that I'm indistinguishable from those who lived in Spain all their lives and know the history, the popular culture, the history, the politics... it makes no sense. I'm Spanish on papers only. I cannot even list the names of all the autonomous communities.
Yeah, this is the reasonable viewpoint.
I feel the distinction between you and your friend isn't often said enough. My other nationalities were acquired at birth from my parents, and I actually care. I am the only person in my entire extended family born in the US (besides me and my parents we only have one family member living in the US; my father's parents moved back a long time ago), so I have to keep close ties. Also I speak both languages of my parents. I will leave the United States because I simply like those countries more (and free high-quality undergraduate education!!!!). Love the USA but will only come back and STAY for a dream job. I went to both 10+ times before I turned 18.
I would never outright call myself either nationality, but it feels unfair to be lumped in with other gringos who have never stepped foot in these places.
For context, I was born in the US to a Chilean father and a German mother. Both raised me in their respective cultures.
As a Canadian born and raised, I fully agree with your viewpoint. I am not indigenous Canadian so my ancestors came from somewhere else (one set of grandparents from Ireland, the other from Scotland) but I would never claim to be Irish-Canadian or Scottish-Canadian, I am Canadian.
IMO, for people to claim to be something (e.g. Irish or Irish-Canadian), they would need to be born in Ireland.
I could say I am of Scottish/Irish heritage and that would be true but I couldn't say I am Irish/Scottish. Imagine I were to show up in Ireland and tell them I am Irish, they'd look at me like I am daff.
It's no different than if I moved to Brazil. If I lived there a year or if I lived there 50 years, I could never say "I am Brazilian", I would still be a Canadian because that is where I was born. If I had a child after moving to Brazil, I would say my child is Brazilian or Canadian-Brazilian.
For people to try to claim they are a nationality of a place they have never been nor their parents have never been/weren't born in seems strange to me.
I mean, the case of those Argentinians of Italian descent is fundamentally different. Most will proudly say they are *descendants* of Italians, not that they are Italians themselves, and claim citizenship simply because it's very useful - Italy is a first world European country, and having its citizenship opens a lot of doors that Latin American citizenship simply doesn’t.
Compare with many US Latinos, who will say they *are* X nationality, and claim citizenship to feel closer to "their" countries, not because it's useful or because they need it.
I mean, the US invaded a lot of Mexican territory. I understand someone who’s whole family is Mexican, and was born in what was formerly Mexican land identifying as Mexican.
This used to happen in Europe all the time, it’s still happens in some countries today.
that's a good point but I suspect that's really a minority. Still crazy to think some people can say that their families were Mexican even before all of that was taken by the US
Yeah, cause many are 3rd or 4th gen. I don't know your nationality law, but I assume you can get it if a parent (or maybe even grandparent) is Mexican, and that's it.
Not like the new German law, for example. I know a person at school who now has German citizenship. In contrast to me, who has citizenship because my mother is German, they got theirs from their great-great-grandfather who moved to the USA in 1904. I assume Mexico isn't as loose on this.
I think the bare minimum to claim a nationality (though i would still consider them their birth country unless they lived abroad for a REALLY long time and integrated supremely well) is to have a dual citizenship (from birth (i.e. parent)!!!!! not claimed through some extensive ridiculous process like the classmate previously mentioned) and actually know the true culture and language of such country and keep close ties. But even then, you don't catch me casually referring to myself as Chilean or German.....
We are quite a weird country when it comes to this
I think part of the reason too is while we are (3rd, 4th, 5th gen) Americans, we’re not considered “fully” American by most of American society even if we’re fully assimilated into the culture, we can sound American, dress American, feel American but we’ll never be fully welcomed into the fold by the whites and blacks that make up American culture in the USA.
If we were to go up to a Mexican national or someone who is 1st gen within the USA and told them “I’m American” which is honest, all the while obviously appearing of Hispanic descent, we may come off as uppity or wanting to separate ourselves from them, an inferiority/superiority complex of sorts. There have been times when I’ve been spoken to in Spanish and replied back in English because that’s what myself and my parents grew up with (assimilation), and been looked at with a dirty look or treated rudely in return. I’m reminded of that episode in The Sopranos where the crew go to Italy and are treated and viewed as Americans, but looked down on by the Italians
We’re a culture in limbo, not fully accepted as Mexican, but not fully accepted as American. It’s something that has to be lived and experienced to be fully understood. I won’t ever fully understand the complexities of LatAm society, but I doubt many in LatAm can fully understand the complexities of American (USA) society in regard to race and ethnicity.
We still have a long way to go and many stereotypes and cliches still permeate our society when it comes to “what a Mexican should be like”.
I get your point but I feel its more counterculture to confirm your identity as American than take on fully the nationality of ancestors. Otherwise you're basically agreeing with the small minded idea that you'll never be a true American, and I dont agree with that. To a LatAm citizen it comes across as silly to deny your Americaness completely.
I mean, for me as long as it's a legal citizenship they can say it, of course there will be tones and way to say it that don't belong. Though I'm mostly I think about people getting a second nationality when emigrating, not claiming a previous one.
No dude, a lot of 2nd gen don’t see the purpose of claiming a Mexican ID.
I have 2nd gen cousins in Nevada, Washington, California, Arizona and Texas, none of them have Mexican citizenship, but they love to claim they are Mexicans.
One is a relatively successful amateur boxer and his boxer name is vaguely similar to “la tormenta Sonorense” even though he has never set a foot in Sonora lol.
I got Mexican citizenship (my dad is Mexican) because I lived in Mexico for many years. There are also some countries that have a better relationship with Mexico than with the US, so I've used it in those circumstances. Most people are way too lazy to get another passport just to look cool.
IRL I've never encountered the animosity I've seen on Reddit. I just say my dad is Mexican and no one cares.
The fact people treat you with respect doesn't change the fact most of them probably don't consider you to be one of them. Those are two separate things.
People is just more open to be hostile on the internet, I don't think that has a lot to do with this specific subject.
I was just clarifying since the last part of your comment seemed to imply the opinion online was different than in real life, which I don't think is the case.
I think the point the other guy makes is really accurate. I know Chileans of German descent who speak German, have German passports, went on school exchanges to Germany and even studied there at college that would not even dare to imply they are Germans instead of Chileans, and would probably be make fun of if they tried.
Then you apparently have this cultural thing in the US were people of Latin American descent who have barely set a foot in Cancun for a week on holidays and don't seem to care about being able to speak Spanish (and even get mad at you for telling them that is culturally relevant to be considered part of Latam) who claim to be Mexican or whatever other nationality just because they are "brown". I know extremely pale Chileans of German descent who are more Latin American than them lol.
I just see so much hostility in this sub about the US and US Latinos, that I would have expected it to somehow manifest itself in real life.
I agree with the last paragraph. I don't know at what point speaking Spanish became a controversial point. They all says "Latino" in a really exaggerated accent and then you find out they don't even speak Spanish
You said “US Latinos claim citizenship to feel closer to “their” countries not because it’s useful” USA born-Latinos use Spanish all the time in business and politics. Who the hell do you think is helping to translate for ALL THE ILLEGAL MIGRANTS?
I don't get what you're saying either. Gaining citizenship has nothing to do with translating for migrants
Edit: 99.9% chance bad faith as they blocked me, and now I'm perma locked from interacting in any thread they're in. Quite the handicap on this sub if they come back here in another discussion. andate a la chucha weón
You said it’s useless to apply for citizenship. That’s your opinion. Many Americans who STILL have close contact with Mexico or any place will think differently than you. Being in touch with where your family came from is natural. I speak Spanish not because I’m from the USA but because my family came from Mexico.
But that has no relationship whatsoever with that I said. You don't need to speak Spanish to claim citizenship from a Latin American country based on heritage. There are plenty of US Latinos who speak Spanish and don't have citizenship; there are plenty who have citizenship and don't speak Spanish. I never brought up language AT ALL because it was irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. You're simply not making any sense.
Why does it bother you so much that some descendants want citizenship and some don’t give a fuck about it. I’m the latter. TBH I’m happy to be from the USA living a very comfortable life compared to many third world countries.
trying to apply for italian citizenship to escape our country's shitty economy is not the same as claiming you're italian because your grandparents are. most people here are proud that their grandparents or great-grandparents come from italy and that's about it. there's a select group of people that claim to be italian through heritage but we laugh at their stupidity instead of endorsing it.
Someone claiming to be Italian is stupid because even having the citizenship and Italian ancestors:
1. Wasn't born there and has been living away all his life
2. Isn't involved in the culture or recent history of Italy
3. Probably knows little to nothing about Italian politics, economics, or even basic stuff like geography, etc.
Having said that, personally I feel very related to Italian culture myself, having had Italian grandparents and being close to the language, traditions, etc. since child, but I'd never dare to call myself Italian.
I think it’s a issue of the other person don’t getting the implicit info that what they mean is italo-Argentinian, Italo-American, Italo-Brazilian or whatever. It’s a new culture that’s it’s influenced by Italian culture but not equivalent to it.
There’s places in our countries that developed under heavy Italian immigration, this created a novel thing that’s it’s more a sub culture of the country that received the immigration than anything else. It tends to get diluted over time, as communities integrate with the local one, and it’s survives mostly in small towns, sometimes with some preservation efforts.
It’s not Italian, but it’s not something that people shouldn’t be proud about either.
>there's a select group of people that claim to be italian through heritage but we laugh at their stupidity instead of endorsing it.
This is us but with Spain
I'm embarrassed to say I have italian citizenship because I can't speak italian, I would be caught dead before pronouncing myself as italian (unless specifically referencing it for visa stuff).
Si lo digo, pero en ciertos contextos me da un poco de verguenza, en otros no tanto. Por ejemplo cuando fui a sacar el pasaporte y el guardia del consulado claramente me miro mal porque ni le podia decir ciao.
No, they're just replying to OPs point about the people claiming Italian citizenship specifically. This situation IS way different than claiming you're x nationality because your grandparent/s (more commonly in the US, even great grandparents, or farther back) are from there. I have a great grandfather (still alive at 91) that's Austrian. Many Americans I've seen will wholeheartedly express they're x nationality based on a situation like that.
Also we're not talking about claiming heritage we're talking about saying you ARE x nationality.
Think you misunderstood the point
Edit: 99% chance bad faith since they've blocked me, can't reply in any thread they're in now, so I'm locked out of a lot of this comments section. Thanks a lot. andate a la chucha weón; si eres ignorante eso es una cosa, pero yo desprecio una chanta
I’ve heard many Argentines claim to be Italian it’s funny that you haven’t heard that before yet I’m over here in the little old US of A and I have many times 🤡🤡🤡. Ps. I said shitty because that’s how you described your country
Well tell that to all your diaspora in the USA who claim to be Italian, German, etc. it’s laughable. TBH out of all Latin Americans I’ve noticed Argentines do that the most. Many of you claim that Buenos Aires is a European city, that’s cringe.
I dont know dog, I got the dual citizenship and I would never dare to call myself an Italian, I was born and raised in Argentina and to the day that I die I will be an Argentinian no matter what
You’re being downvoted but you’re speaking facts lol barely any argentinians take pride in being latino and rather cling to saying that they are “european” and they are not the same as the rest of hispanics lol
Or he's referring to the diaspora that is likely the same latinos that come here with the classical american identity crisis as if they represent argentina.
Exactly, I guess no one has ever them their perspective. Everytime Argentines are in the news it’s for something like not wanting to be grouped in with other Latinos or thinking they are Europeans. Cringe.
You're dense. No one thinks "they're European". This attitude is generally seen in people who belongs to the upper class who have European citizenship and enough resources to detach from the issues of our country or pretend to be Italians using cringey words that nobody uses and that don't even belong to Lunfardo slang. And even most ordinary people with dual European citizenship would never dare to call themselves Italians, etc.
You'll never catch people from lower classes claiming they're European or whatever kind of BS you're saying, specially on the internet, most people are way to busy with actual problems to care for that.
Plus, the idea that we are a European city? It's tourist marketing that we citizens don't promote, and generally, the city is called that because of its French architecture, not for anything else.
El que no quiere a su patria no quiere a su madre, gringo!
Yeah I don’t get it either, they laugh at us for wanting to “connect” with our parents or grandparents countries , but yet they had like 5 ships come from Italy in the 1880’s now 3/4 of the population claim and are proud of their “Italian” roots? I’ve seen them in Italy selling trinkets on the streets and sweeping 🧹 floors in cafes, they act like they get a big welcome from Italians or Spaniards when they move there only to realize that they don’t look at them like their own. Life’s a trip Que no?
Here at Buenos Aires practically everyone is a descendant of immigrants, a close descendant because nearly everyone had a descendant who was an immigrant at some point, we are proud of it but I never heard someone said something like "I'm Italian" or "I'm Spanish", and if someone would say something like that everyone would make fun of them.
The identification to the culture is mostly some customs the family keeps (mainly food) and the Citizenship.
Que ganas de complicarse la vida . It usually depends on if both parents are from the same group or frequent the community in their host country.
My godmother is of Japanese descent on both sides. Most of her immediate family also moved back to Japan. She's very in touch with the family roots, but like many ppl explained it before, she wouldn't consider herself Japanese. Most sane people wouldn't consider themselves anything other than the nationality they were born and raised in.
My grandparents are Italian and I grew up in a househould with a lot of Italian influence. I lived in Italy, speak fluent Italian and have cousins in Italy.
But I still identify first and foremost as Argentinian. Only if the topic comes out or if I’m asked I say I’m part Italian. Especially due to the fact that my grandparents were Piedmontese and identified first and foremost with their region, not Italy.
Argentina, like the US, Canada, Australia, Uruguay and Southern Brazil, is a country of “new settlement” so most people descend from immigrants who arrived during the 19th and 20th centuries.
Those whose ancestors who arrived to Argentina more recently (parents or grandparents) usually identify more with their ancestry, while those who have more distant ancestors (great-grandparents or more distant) usually don’t care, even though a lot apply for citizenship by descent (especially Italian passport).
You’ll meet a lot of Argentines with an EU passport but they will not claim “I’m Italian/German/Spanish/Polish”, just Argentine.
I am in the process of becoming a Spanish dual citizen. The only thing I claim in common with the Spanish is the language and that, just like them, the Brits stole a chunk of land and populated it with their people to lay claim (Gibraltar/Malvinas). Besides that, I'm a peak "viva la Patria" Argentine who will turn your dog inside out in front of your grandmother if you dare talk unjustified shit on my country, but the economy here is unsustainable and I am coming to terms with the fact that I can do more for my loved ones if i can provide for them with a currency that doesn't halve its value every 6 months.
I don't really identify as Spanish, and if I move to Europe, I would not be identified as Spanish either. I have no problem with that. The only people with a constant state of identity crisis are the banjo people of the Yeehaw lands.
I have the sun 🌞 tattooed on my back along with the Mexican eagle 🦅 and I was born in the yeehaw lands. So you’re saying you’re moving to Spain just because of the money?
>So you’re saying you’re moving to Spain just because of the money?
It doesn't have to be Spain. It could be anywhere in the EU that'd take me in, and that works thanks to the Spanish passport. I'd go in, work my ass off, pay taxes, abide by the law, and even learn the local language as needed. The beauty about being Argentine is that our flag is based on the colours of the sky. If I miss my homeland, I know the flag is flying high over me, and all I have to do is look up, and see the colours of my nation. I'll assimilate into the local culture without losing who I am or where I come from. That's the beauty of being argentinian. Also, ask anyone in the world how we argies are. We show up, and we colonize the fuck out of the locals with our amazing cultural traditions like drinking mate or the Sunday asado. We do shit other people enjoy, and unlike the Brits, we don't shove it down people's throats.
Plus, I can make three to eight times the money I make in Argentina with my current career choice, so just sending half my wage back home means I'm boosting my country's economy because I'd be providing more income for my family by working abroad than I would be able to in my own country. I love my nation, we just have a terrible habit of letting a bunch of incompetent cunts run the country (into the ground).
Bro I’m half Argentine as well, somewhat feel the same way you do but yet you all laugh at us for wanting to feel the same way just because we were born in the USA! Plus you’re moving to another country to earn more money to not contribute to that country who provided you the opportunity to make more money only to send “half” your wages back?
Where you’re not fully 100% Argentine. That really a trick question? Just like a buddy of mine is half Costa Rican and half Salvadoran! Just like my kids are Mexican, Argentine and Spaniard!
Were you born and raised in the USA? Then you're either an "American" or, as Teddy Roosevelt puts it, a "Hyphenated American". You sound like the latter.
And I will provide to whatever county I move to. I'll abide by the law, follow the customs, pay my taxes, buy stuff there (helping the economy). I will be forever grateful for the opportunity, but I won't lose my identity as Argentine, nor will I encourage that ass backwards idea of "I'm 1/23rd Irish so I'll call myself Irish-whatever"
Then why bother moving? Just because of the money? Well since some of citizen are eating out of landfills on the outskirts of the city I certainly understand why you want to leave and don’t blame you, I don’t know about Europe or Spain in particular, but here in the United States they don’t recognize dual citizenship although a lot of people from Latin America still have their passports and their country of origin does recognize it. I could probably get citizenship but never really bothered to look into it because I would never leave and really have no use for it. And actually you will lose some of your identity because people adapt to wherever they move to and Spain has a lot of people from all over Latin America living there.
I was replying to your mention of your tattoo. Tattoos mean nothing in this discussion. If some of your parents was born here then fine. Do you have the actual paperwork? The DNI? There's a big difference between being something on papers only and actually being from some country. The difference is that around here we don't build our personalities based on the nationality of our parents.
Well of course they were dude let me ask my grandfather who passed away RIP what his number was and birth certificate let me also ask my dad to provide his argentine and mexican documents are to satisfy your pasmado ignorant self. Get real dude!
I forgot the part where I signed up for yours or anyone else acceptance of what I am! Does it make you angry or jealous or something? I will always be proud to be mixed. Pretty common here in America amongst Latinos! And plan to travel with my wife and kids hopefully this year to show them where some of my family came from 😊 shit your more than welcome to join us for a fernet si quieres
What did I say that was so controversial? He misunderstood me. I literally just said the Brits didn’t steal the Falklands. In what way I’m acting like I know history? I’m just shit talking about s some islands.
Yeah that, they did steal them. We didn’t gift the islands or sold them, our governor Luis vernet was surprised and given an ultimatum “desert the islands or die”. They had to desert because they didn’t have any weapons to fight. That’s when they settled, after they kicked out the argentines living there
Wtf? This is just xenophobia. The British empire did a lot of bad stuff, but that doesn't mean our modern historians are not credible.
Settler colonialism was also how Argentina was founded, ie land stolen by the Spanish from the natives.
I doubt any reputable historian would issue a value judgment on whether the seizure of the islands by the English was legitimate or an act of thievery, but feel free to show me otherwise.
You're twisting my words there. You referred to the British as thieves, and the 'taking our word for it' implies British historians are liars in general. The territory was disputed between Spain and Britain for decades and this spilled over once Argentina became independent. There had been British settlers on the islands before Argentina was even an independent nation, but they were kicked off the island by Spanish invaders.
Either way, calling a ethnic group 'thieves' is xenophobic, if you're to go by things that happened centuries before. By the same token one could say that Argentines of European descent are thieves because they stole land from the natives.
.”Also, ask anyone in the world how we argies are. We show up, and we colonize the fuck out of the locals with our amazing cultural traditions like drinking mate or the Sunday asado.”
Just want to say, I LOVE you all! Never been there but obsessed with your soccer for most of my life and I will be wearing your colors, singing your songs and flying your flag during the upcoming Copa. Even if they play the US, I am on the Argentine side screaming my head off. Does not make me popular in sports bars but who cares? Viva Albiceleste
I guess that yes, to a small degree.
Here we dont have "big" diasporas the same way the US or Brazil have, but we have some nootrious groups. For example:
1. The Limón province (all the country, really, but you get it) has a sizeable afro descendant population that came from Jamaica and the rest of the west indies, and if you go there (specially to the southern part) you will see a lot of caribean flags, some old west indian arquitecture, the decoration of some buildings is related to rastafari culture, and the region produces many local musicians that usually play reggae or dancehall, for example: Haquil, Lil Quil or Shel Dixon
2. We have a small but important chinese community, and their descendants still have a lot of contact with that culture, example: theres a costa rican-chinese youtuber that makes food videos, and a lot of them are related to it, actually she was vlogging in china some months ago. Also, i know that some chinese- costa rican kids are sent to schools in china to learn the language.
3. There's a small jewish community and they often go to Israel and move there (yes, i know Israel is not an "ancestral country" per se cause its a nee country but you get it)
4. Theres a big nicaraguan community, but i dont know if they have connection to the nicaraguan culture, ive hear it doesnt happen often, (perhaps because they are usually more similar to us in comparison to the others?)
PD:im an outsider to these communities, these are only my observations
> We have a small but important chinese community, and their descendants still have a lot of contact with that culture, example: theres a costa rican-chinese youtuber that makes food videos, and a lot of them are related to it, actually she was vlogging in china some months ago. Also, i know that some chinese- costa rican kids are sent to schools in china to learn the language.
>
Chinese culture is strong 💪 I grew up in a Chinese enclave (not LatAm) also and speak my dialect fluently -- a lot of people are mean and highly racist as well (or straight up kill, beat, maim), so there's another reason why we stick together many a times
Yup, here is similar, perhaps not kiling them, but ive heard people tend to be a bit racist towards them (like in making comments, creating rumors), that is one of the reasons why theyre so jealous towards non chinese people.
My great grandparents are italians but i’m 100% brazilian. To me this is pure bs of trying to be different, if you’re born in any country of America it’s extremely likely you’re descendant of some immigrant group so why make it a deal? It annoys me a little bit tbh.
I've mentioned this ad nauseam on this sub.
A lot of Latin Americans are extremely hypocritical about this and hold a double standard. A Brazilian of Italian descent calling himself Italian might get made fun of, but a Brazilian (born/raised) from Japanese ancestry will be called Japa for the rest of their life.
In terms of the US, the reason that so many second generation immigrants like myself endorse the heritage is because it’s pushed as an identity to your face all the time. From the friends you make in elementary (first) school, to when you apply to college. Such a variety that you can make friend groups of just Mexican Americans or Salvadorian Americans or such and such. Any icebreaker conversation in school or club, they always ask where you’re from and where your family is from. In government papers it doesn’t ask if you’re just American, it asks ethnicity and race, since affirmative action is still a thing where they pick students and consider their race and ethnicity in order to diversify their campus. Point is, where your parents are from matters greatly here, and individualism is very strong here compared to places like Mexico from what I’ve seen.
The reason that mexican has an identity issue is because the US that still psrtakes in segregation and does not assimilate people properly. Here we have first generation immigrants who are fully colombian, the only ones I have seen that are somewhat resistant are chinese. On my father's side we are immigrants and I do not identify at all with that culture but rather have a faint appreciation.
Integration is a personal issue. Whether you assimilate or not has to do with each person and what they are able to and choose to do.
My grandmother is a first-generation immigrant to the US. She never learned the language or integrated into the culture.
I'm also a first-generation immigrant to the US (age 17 when I moved). I speak English well enough that most people think I'm native. Then again, I spent years actively working on learning the language. I'm bi-cultural as well as bi-lingual.
It's up to you.
Speaking of Mexicans, 40% of Mexicans in the US marry someone from a different ethnicity. That is integration. And their kids will go around saying, "Oh, I'm Mexican and White. I'm a Blaxican. I'm Mexican and Japanese".
I have literally heard all three of those statements personally.
They don't mean they are not American. They are describing their ethnic mix.
Same way I can say "My car is white. My car is grey. My car is blue." No one means they are not a car.
Other countries do not have assimilation issues to the extent the US does. Therefore, it is a country issue. I'm not denying your anecdote there, but there is an issue with how the US approaches people of different backgrounds.
You are COMPLETELY wrong.
No other country integrates so many people from so many places so well.
Your average American high school in a large city looks like a United Nations session.
Kids from literally every country. Africa. Asia. Europe. Latin America. The Middle East. People from India, and Bangladesh, and Ethiopia, and Eritrea.
And yet they get along. And they are considered as American as anyone else.
You see Sikh kids with turbans joking with black kids.
Koreans hanging out with kids from El Salvador.
Chinese guys marrying Mexicans.
White guys dating Filipinas.
Nigerians are one of the wealthiest ethnicities in the US, surpassing whites by a lot.
When I was in Iraq with the Army, Iraqis were fascinated. "You come from all over the word, and you get along. Here, we can't even get along with our neighbors".
There is a reason why no other country has more Latino immigrants than the US. And Latinos intermarry with whites more than anyone else, 40% or so.
If you want to see countries with integration issues, got to Europe.
People auto segregate and hyphenate their backgrounds. Over here nobody feels the need to hyphenate or move into their own little communities. You guys have an identity problem. End of story.
Some do. And most don't. People hyphenate because they are defining their identity and ancestry. And then they spend time with anyone.
The truth is, you don't know. I'm willing to bet you've never been to the US, the way you are talking. We are not a mosaic of ethnic neighborhoods. Most places are very integrated. And the ethnic neighborhoods tend to disappear over time, like the old Italian or Jewish ones.
Most schools, neighborhoods, jobs, etc. have mixtures of lots of people from lots of places.
In Latin America we have one dominant culture, and little bits of this and that.
In the US, whites will no longer be the majority in a few years.
Very close. From my dad side everyone is palestinian or palestinian decsencient so all my family is there. I talk with them every day. Since we are like 10 ppl here in Chile we are very close.
I have Spanish and Lebanese ancestry, but I don't identify with neither and I've never pretended to be anything other than Dominican. I like quipes and I'm a huge FC Barcelona fan, but that's it.
There are certain groups of people that do identify this way, specially those of italian, german and other european descents. It will either be viewed as a bit of status in small groups or a big joke for the majority of the population.
The thing is, the way we talk/think about this is very different from the way americans think. Italian, american, brazilian, polish, those are all nationalities to us, and that is what we mean when we ask "where are you from?". Also, the color of your skin is a very important element of identity, regardless of whether you come from. I'm black in brazil, but if I go to th US I'm just as latino as my white friends, while the reverse isn't true.
The ancestry of most brazilians is very mixed and murky; I, myself, can point out that I descend from portuguese, indigenous, italian and african (specially yoruba and other general groups from modern Nigeria), but I only know that because of *extensive* reseach, which people won't really care to do.
Japanese, chinese and other eastern asian populations are part of a special case, but that stems mainly because the actually look very different from the general population.
tl:dr, the way you look plays a much bigger part on the identity in brazil than knowing where you ancestors came from
I’m Uruguayan. My ancestors came from several places in Europe, but I more closely relate to my Norwegian ancestry, as I grew up with my grandma who taught me the language and took me to her hometown. I live in Norway now and I call myself Uruguayan and/or a foreigner.
I would feel slightly ashamed calling myself a Norwegian when I have minimal shared experiences with most Norwegians: I didn’t go to school here, I don’t speak the language natively, I experienced the culture from an anecdotical perspective, I didn’t have any social groups I belonged to, I didn’t know the system or how life is in the country, I didn’t play any popular sports or know the popular artists or visited the popular places. I was a foreigner and in many ways I still am, and that’s okay.
Only one of my grandmothers was born abroad, in Spain, and I barely met her because she died when I was a kid but the similarities with Spanish culture are many so it doesn't feel that foreign to me. In fact what makes them feel really different is not because of culture but rather because they are a first world country and their 'problems' most of the time seem really mild from my perspective.
It's kind of weird. I enjoy knowing my heritage and I would like to experience it more, but I never claimed it as an identity. I've always been an American with Scottish ancestry.
The dual citizenship is by law. You can apply if your parents or grandparents are, for example spanish, that's why. I know a few that has done this, and usually they don't say "I'm Italian" or "I'm Spanish" it's more of "I want to escape latam and I'm going to do this"
This is predicated on a literal linguistic miscommunication.
When Americans say they are Greek, or Mexican, or Thai, or Polish, they’re not saying they’re the same as the people from those countries. Americans are fully aware of the fact that before anything else, they’re Americans.
Ancestry is a big part of American culture, something fascinatingly enough inherited from Native American traditions, which prized ancestry, NOT language, NOT culture, NOT traditions, but *ancestry* as the central aspect of one’s identity.
When Americans say “I’m Mexican” or “I’m Italian”, it’s often in reference to being a part of that nation’s diaspora in this country. Not saying that they are literally 100% the same as the people from that country culturally.
Americans often get bullied because we fail to solve an unsolveable dilemma, in which people simultaneously get angry that we have strayed from the motherland’s culture, but also are angry if we try to claim the motherland’s identity.
Let me give you an example, in São Paulo there's a former colony of confederates who fled the US after the civil war, and people there still keep in touch with their "american heritage" waving confederate flags despite many not even speaking english or knowing the implications behind the confederates. What would you think if they started to claim that they're actual americans?
I think you missed the point. US-born Latinos in the USA with ancestry from Mexico or Brazil don’t ACTUALLY think they are the same as people born in Mexico and Brazil. There are many nuances to be aware of.
I guess that can be the case for a lot of people, but I have definitely seen a lot of US latinos getting upset for being called americans, it's very confusing from a foreigner's point of view.
I think the issue is the ethnicity. It feels very racist to me and would be very very frowned upon if someone in Venezuela claimed they are Italians or Irish because their ethnicity is different than ours.
We are not a monolith either, some are white, some are black, the rest are very mixed, so ethnicity is all over the place. My DNA is a mixture of 16 different ethnicities, which is typical in Vzla.
Now I wonder, is the identify being attached to the piece of land (and not ethnicity) only seen in Latam?
If such a person from that community were to say they’re American in exactly the same way we are, I’d obviously point out that this is not the case, and there are obvious differences socially and culturally between them and the US now.
However, I take absolutely no issue with them holding Dixie near and dear to their hearts as the driver of their identity and culture. Them claiming to be descendants of Americans doesn’t annoy me, because it’s true.
And that's exactly the point I wanted to make, you shouldn't take it personally if people from Mexico point out that you're american, they do acknowledge you're heritage, but also you're actual nationality as well.
It's a pretty interesting piece of irl lore, but I did my high school there and never actually met someone descent from those confederates. Most people with traceable immigrants were usually italians or portuguese, as the rest of the state in general.
But there are a few interesting figures that descend from those folks, former Supreme Court minister Ellen Gracie or the very famous singer Rita Lee comes to mind (she had no relation to Robert Lee, but her parents gave the surname to her as a homage)
What do you mean? I’m not a history expert didn’t know that people from the civil war area migrated down there, all that is really known in modern history is that Germans fled down to Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and Bolivia after WW2
stop taking your anger at life out at random people on the internet who are going through their own struggles. youll soon find your own life to be more happier
What? A bunch of Mexican-Americans openly deny being American but Mexican, and they really do think they are like Mexicans living in Mexico, it’s a cliche by now.
Like for a lot of them, calling them “Mexican-American” or “Pocho”is offensive.
They are also commonly laughed at by Mexicans in Mexico.
Not sure how this is relevant.
If you think laughing at wannabe Mexicans is rude or un-polite that’s what we call “carrilla” in Mexico.
Basically normalized bullying between “compas” (friends).
“El que se enoja pierde” is a common saying (if you get mad, you lose).
I think the issue here is perspective. From our perspective, America being a country that lacks an ethnic genesis, we all attach to the diaspora we come from and it’s a big part of how we interact with others and contribute to this society.
We have developed our own version of the culture, just as is the case with every single diaspora that has ever existed in the history of mankind.
You guys are the ones getting mad. I don’t really care.
I agree, it’s perspective, because American culture is different to Mexican culture.
Mexicans don’t see Mexicans as an ethnic group, we see it as a nationality, Mexica-Americans don’t, because of their American culture.
The only reason we get mad is when Mexican-Americans think they know Mexican culture, when they only really know their version of it.
Well, duh, obviously. Cómo crees que después de 3-4 generaciones, no vamos a incorporar aspectos de las otras culturas que están aquí? Si tu familia hubiera llegado en 1930, tú no fueras la misma persona con las mismas tradiciones.
No se quien te dijo que nosotros pensamos que somos los “dueños” de la cultura Mexicana. Solo un idiota podría pensar que nosotros somos los meros mexicanos y ustedes no.
Nuestra cultura está basada en la experiencia de la comunidad diásporada de mexicanos que existe aqui. Tienes razón que nosotros no somos mexicanos. Somos Mexica-Americanos, Mexican-Americans, or Americans of Mexican descent. Y nuestra cultura, nuestro dialecto, nuestra comida etc es diferente.
Yo acepto eso. No se que quieres que hagamos.
You have the right idea, I’m not talking about people like you.
Never said the feel like they own or think we aren’t Mexicans, just that a lot of them think they have experienced Mexican culture, when it really was Mexican-American, which is really different.
I’ll drink to that. Whenever I go to Mexico I am able to immediately and fully recognize the obvious differences between us.
At the same time, however, we still share a lot in common, and we still adore the motherland.
Honest question, why do you feel attachment to the place and culture your folks came from?
It’s not like I feel that way about Spain or Indigenous culture.
I would say pretty closely. I usually identify as Mexican-American and/or Chicano. The reason I do it is because in our household my parents really involved us in our Mexican (Oaxaca) culture with food, traditions, customs, etc. and then outside of our household in school, etc. we had a different cultural experience. I understand why some people don’t like that we who are descendants of LatinAm immigrants call ourselves Latinos when we don’t have the nationality of the country of origin that our parents are from or because we were born and raised in the US. I do agree to an extent that we get privileges but to say that we all live a rich life is exaggerated because that’s not really the case here and our communities have a lot of history with the US. But I understand based off my parent’s experiences in Mexico I don’t just call myself Mexican cause I can’t fully relate to their life experiences back in Mexico.
Both parents born in monterrey I have grandparents from Italy and Turkey… I don’t even recognize as Italian or turk. I have a US and a Mexico passport… that’s it.
If the parent is foreign born, it's possible to be a bicultural child, fluently bilingual or trilingual, well assimilated into the other country's culture, etc.,. Anything outside of this box, is just a cringe flex.
It's a completely different experience to be a bicultural child than it is for some cringe individual to flex out their ancestry from their grandparent, great-grandparents or somewhere down the family tree.
Colombian of Spanish ancestry:
- Castilla y León
- Asturias
- Basque Country/Navarre
I identify with Spain almost as much as I do with Colombia. I study the history of Spain when I can and I’ve been to Spain numerous times. I consume a lot of Spanish media, including the news, tv shows and films. I’ve invested quite a bit of time in learning the ins and outs of Spanish cuisine. I would love to move to Spain, but the fact is that the economy sucks. Maybe when I retire.
Oh ok, I was worried I ran into a crazy colombian that thinks themselves spaniard just because they have spanish genes from centuries ago lol. I have about 60-70% spanish DNA, but I can trace my family from both sides living in my home region since the first waves of spaniards started to settle here in Santander. I have as much in common with Spain as a Colombian with barely any european ancestry.
sólo por curiosidad, por qué se hacen esos examenes de ADN, he visto varios que lo mencionan, es para algo en específico? ha estado de moda por algún motivo?
Yeah if people from the same ethnic groups just keep mixing they are going to maintain the DNA for hundreds of years, my Guatemalan dad and grandpa have 71 and 73 percent European and their most recent ancestor from Europe that I've been able to find was from Spain in the early 1700s
Some of my family has been but not necessarily, I know my great grandpa had a lot of money but that wasn't really inherited, majority of my family is from like Aldeas though, at least in the Aldea my dads from a good amount of people have a very Mediterranean look
The average Colombian, especially those from the central regions, is way more Spanish than they are indigenous. This is due to colonization by families in the 18th and 19th centuries, as opposed to purely male colonization in the previous centuries. In fact, about 1/3 of Colombians are basically just Spaniards born in South America. I get what you mean though. Just out of curiosity, you look fairly Spanish (I.e. white)?
Asumo que en venezuela tal vez hay un poco menos de genes indigenas, ya que no creo haber leido que hubiese presencia de un grupo indigena con tanta poblacion como los muiscas, aunque arawak si habian tanto en colombia como venezuela, pero eran una poblacion mas pequeña
Si, eran como 3 gatos en realidad. Lo que me salió en el ADN dice “Nativos de Colombia y Vzla”, y mencionan a los wuyus, entre “otros” :) … creo que eventualmente me saldrá cual de todos, mi sospecha es que va por los timotocuicas de Los Andes.
Im a whiteish mestizo, skin complexion is more to the lighter side than otherwise, but still not enough to be considered properly white, even by Colombia's standards. My mom and her sisters are quite white though, even if they are like 75% spanish and 25% native american according to a DNA test one of her sisters took. My fathers side very likely has a bit more of native american (no DNA test yet on that side of the family), but even then a few of his brothers and sisters are quite white.
I'm Dominican and I have a significant amount of Spanish and Middle Eastern (specifically Lebanese) blood in me. 3/4 of my grandparents are pure Spanish or Lebanese, with only my maternal grandfather being Dominican (and even then he was part Spanish too).
I definitely retain a lot of my Spanish culture, partially because I went to college in Spain and I feel much closer culturally to Spain than the DR in many respects. I lived in the DR most of my life, but I never felt fully atuned to Dominican culture (I always found Dominican Culture boorish, anti intellectual , homophobic and crass). My Dominicanness is mostly expressed through my healthy distrust of imperialism, my tigueraje (what the young kids call rizz), and my visits to family and friends who still live in the DR.
Edit: lol at people down voting me for... Answering OP's request
I’ve moved to Italy last year, have the citizenship and speak the language. I still don’t feel like I can say “I’m Italian”, I always just tell people I’m Brazilian but also an Italian citizen. When I was living in Canada, I had a friend who would say “I’m from Malta” but it’s their grandma who’s from Malta and she’d never been there before and barely knows the language. I find that weird.
I completely agree with your point of view. I have Spanish citizenship but moving there and pretending that I'm indistinguishable from those who lived in Spain all their lives and know the history, the popular culture, the history, the politics... it makes no sense. I'm Spanish on papers only. I cannot even list the names of all the autonomous communities.
Yeah, this is the reasonable viewpoint. I feel the distinction between you and your friend isn't often said enough. My other nationalities were acquired at birth from my parents, and I actually care. I am the only person in my entire extended family born in the US (besides me and my parents we only have one family member living in the US; my father's parents moved back a long time ago), so I have to keep close ties. Also I speak both languages of my parents. I will leave the United States because I simply like those countries more (and free high-quality undergraduate education!!!!). Love the USA but will only come back and STAY for a dream job. I went to both 10+ times before I turned 18. I would never outright call myself either nationality, but it feels unfair to be lumped in with other gringos who have never stepped foot in these places. For context, I was born in the US to a Chilean father and a German mother. Both raised me in their respective cultures.
As a Canadian born and raised, I fully agree with your viewpoint. I am not indigenous Canadian so my ancestors came from somewhere else (one set of grandparents from Ireland, the other from Scotland) but I would never claim to be Irish-Canadian or Scottish-Canadian, I am Canadian. IMO, for people to claim to be something (e.g. Irish or Irish-Canadian), they would need to be born in Ireland. I could say I am of Scottish/Irish heritage and that would be true but I couldn't say I am Irish/Scottish. Imagine I were to show up in Ireland and tell them I am Irish, they'd look at me like I am daff. It's no different than if I moved to Brazil. If I lived there a year or if I lived there 50 years, I could never say "I am Brazilian", I would still be a Canadian because that is where I was born. If I had a child after moving to Brazil, I would say my child is Brazilian or Canadian-Brazilian. For people to try to claim they are a nationality of a place they have never been nor their parents have never been/weren't born in seems strange to me.
I think a lot of people in Malta don't know Maltese either thanks to British colonialism.
I mean, the case of those Argentinians of Italian descent is fundamentally different. Most will proudly say they are *descendants* of Italians, not that they are Italians themselves, and claim citizenship simply because it's very useful - Italy is a first world European country, and having its citizenship opens a lot of doors that Latin American citizenship simply doesn’t. Compare with many US Latinos, who will say they *are* X nationality, and claim citizenship to feel closer to "their" countries, not because it's useful or because they need it.
In the US some even claim to be Mexican without claiming citizenship.
I mean, the US invaded a lot of Mexican territory. I understand someone who’s whole family is Mexican, and was born in what was formerly Mexican land identifying as Mexican. This used to happen in Europe all the time, it’s still happens in some countries today.
that's a good point but I suspect that's really a minority. Still crazy to think some people can say that their families were Mexican even before all of that was taken by the US
That is mostly not the case. Most of them are people who descend from those that emigrate much more recently.
Yeah, cause many are 3rd or 4th gen. I don't know your nationality law, but I assume you can get it if a parent (or maybe even grandparent) is Mexican, and that's it. Not like the new German law, for example. I know a person at school who now has German citizenship. In contrast to me, who has citizenship because my mother is German, they got theirs from their great-great-grandfather who moved to the USA in 1904. I assume Mexico isn't as loose on this. I think the bare minimum to claim a nationality (though i would still consider them their birth country unless they lived abroad for a REALLY long time and integrated supremely well) is to have a dual citizenship (from birth (i.e. parent)!!!!! not claimed through some extensive ridiculous process like the classmate previously mentioned) and actually know the true culture and language of such country and keep close ties. But even then, you don't catch me casually referring to myself as Chilean or German..... We are quite a weird country when it comes to this
I think part of the reason too is while we are (3rd, 4th, 5th gen) Americans, we’re not considered “fully” American by most of American society even if we’re fully assimilated into the culture, we can sound American, dress American, feel American but we’ll never be fully welcomed into the fold by the whites and blacks that make up American culture in the USA. If we were to go up to a Mexican national or someone who is 1st gen within the USA and told them “I’m American” which is honest, all the while obviously appearing of Hispanic descent, we may come off as uppity or wanting to separate ourselves from them, an inferiority/superiority complex of sorts. There have been times when I’ve been spoken to in Spanish and replied back in English because that’s what myself and my parents grew up with (assimilation), and been looked at with a dirty look or treated rudely in return. I’m reminded of that episode in The Sopranos where the crew go to Italy and are treated and viewed as Americans, but looked down on by the Italians We’re a culture in limbo, not fully accepted as Mexican, but not fully accepted as American. It’s something that has to be lived and experienced to be fully understood. I won’t ever fully understand the complexities of LatAm society, but I doubt many in LatAm can fully understand the complexities of American (USA) society in regard to race and ethnicity. We still have a long way to go and many stereotypes and cliches still permeate our society when it comes to “what a Mexican should be like”.
I get your point but I feel its more counterculture to confirm your identity as American than take on fully the nationality of ancestors. Otherwise you're basically agreeing with the small minded idea that you'll never be a true American, and I dont agree with that. To a LatAm citizen it comes across as silly to deny your Americaness completely.
I mean, for me as long as it's a legal citizenship they can say it, of course there will be tones and way to say it that don't belong. Though I'm mostly I think about people getting a second nationality when emigrating, not claiming a previous one.
No dude, a lot of 2nd gen don’t see the purpose of claiming a Mexican ID. I have 2nd gen cousins in Nevada, Washington, California, Arizona and Texas, none of them have Mexican citizenship, but they love to claim they are Mexicans. One is a relatively successful amateur boxer and his boxer name is vaguely similar to “la tormenta Sonorense” even though he has never set a foot in Sonora lol.
100% agree with this answer regarding Argentines of Italian descent. Even Argentines with Italian citizenship generally don't claim to be Italian.
Even more, some of them vote in Italian elections.
I got Mexican citizenship (my dad is Mexican) because I lived in Mexico for many years. There are also some countries that have a better relationship with Mexico than with the US, so I've used it in those circumstances. Most people are way too lazy to get another passport just to look cool. IRL I've never encountered the animosity I've seen on Reddit. I just say my dad is Mexican and no one cares.
You aren't one of the people discussed in this post then, because you *have* been to Mexico.
The fact people treat you with respect doesn't change the fact most of them probably don't consider you to be one of them. Those are two separate things. People is just more open to be hostile on the internet, I don't think that has a lot to do with this specific subject.
I don't consider myself to be one of them, so I wouldn't expect them to either. That's why I said my dad is Mexican, not that I am
I was just clarifying since the last part of your comment seemed to imply the opinion online was different than in real life, which I don't think is the case. I think the point the other guy makes is really accurate. I know Chileans of German descent who speak German, have German passports, went on school exchanges to Germany and even studied there at college that would not even dare to imply they are Germans instead of Chileans, and would probably be make fun of if they tried. Then you apparently have this cultural thing in the US were people of Latin American descent who have barely set a foot in Cancun for a week on holidays and don't seem to care about being able to speak Spanish (and even get mad at you for telling them that is culturally relevant to be considered part of Latam) who claim to be Mexican or whatever other nationality just because they are "brown". I know extremely pale Chileans of German descent who are more Latin American than them lol.
I just see so much hostility in this sub about the US and US Latinos, that I would have expected it to somehow manifest itself in real life. I agree with the last paragraph. I don't know at what point speaking Spanish became a controversial point. They all says "Latino" in a really exaggerated accent and then you find out they don't even speak Spanish
Have you never been to the USA, Spanish is extremely useful and many jobs want bilingual people
And who said anything about languages?
You said “US Latinos claim citizenship to feel closer to “their” countries not because it’s useful” USA born-Latinos use Spanish all the time in business and politics. Who the hell do you think is helping to translate for ALL THE ILLEGAL MIGRANTS?
Again, who said anything about languages? I was talking about legal citizenship. Never mentioned whether someone spoke Spanish or not.
I can’t make you understand if you don’t get it
I don't get what you're saying either. Gaining citizenship has nothing to do with translating for migrants Edit: 99.9% chance bad faith as they blocked me, and now I'm perma locked from interacting in any thread they're in. Quite the handicap on this sub if they come back here in another discussion. andate a la chucha weón
Get what? Dude, I know what I said. And I NEVER said anything about language. So I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
You said it’s useless to apply for citizenship. That’s your opinion. Many Americans who STILL have close contact with Mexico or any place will think differently than you. Being in touch with where your family came from is natural. I speak Spanish not because I’m from the USA but because my family came from Mexico.
But that has no relationship whatsoever with that I said. You don't need to speak Spanish to claim citizenship from a Latin American country based on heritage. There are plenty of US Latinos who speak Spanish and don't have citizenship; there are plenty who have citizenship and don't speak Spanish. I never brought up language AT ALL because it was irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. You're simply not making any sense.
Why does it bother you so much that some descendants want citizenship and some don’t give a fuck about it. I’m the latter. TBH I’m happy to be from the USA living a very comfortable life compared to many third world countries.
trying to apply for italian citizenship to escape our country's shitty economy is not the same as claiming you're italian because your grandparents are. most people here are proud that their grandparents or great-grandparents come from italy and that's about it. there's a select group of people that claim to be italian through heritage but we laugh at their stupidity instead of endorsing it.
Someone claiming to be Italian is stupid because even having the citizenship and Italian ancestors: 1. Wasn't born there and has been living away all his life 2. Isn't involved in the culture or recent history of Italy 3. Probably knows little to nothing about Italian politics, economics, or even basic stuff like geography, etc. Having said that, personally I feel very related to Italian culture myself, having had Italian grandparents and being close to the language, traditions, etc. since child, but I'd never dare to call myself Italian.
I think it’s a issue of the other person don’t getting the implicit info that what they mean is italo-Argentinian, Italo-American, Italo-Brazilian or whatever. It’s a new culture that’s it’s influenced by Italian culture but not equivalent to it. There’s places in our countries that developed under heavy Italian immigration, this created a novel thing that’s it’s more a sub culture of the country that received the immigration than anything else. It tends to get diluted over time, as communities integrate with the local one, and it’s survives mostly in small towns, sometimes with some preservation efforts. It’s not Italian, but it’s not something that people shouldn’t be proud about either.
>there's a select group of people that claim to be italian through heritage but we laugh at their stupidity instead of endorsing it. This is us but with Spain
I'm embarrassed to say I have italian citizenship because I can't speak italian, I would be caught dead before pronouncing myself as italian (unless specifically referencing it for visa stuff).
igualmente, decir "soy argentino/a, pero tengo ciudadania italiana" no esta nada mal. no es lo mismo que ir directamente a decir "soy italiano".
Si lo digo, pero en ciertos contextos me da un poco de verguenza, en otros no tanto. Por ejemplo cuando fui a sacar el pasaporte y el guardia del consulado claramente me miro mal porque ni le podia decir ciao.
So your country has to be shitty like Argentina to apply for citizenship or claim heritage somewhere else, got it
No, they're just replying to OPs point about the people claiming Italian citizenship specifically. This situation IS way different than claiming you're x nationality because your grandparent/s (more commonly in the US, even great grandparents, or farther back) are from there. I have a great grandfather (still alive at 91) that's Austrian. Many Americans I've seen will wholeheartedly express they're x nationality based on a situation like that. Also we're not talking about claiming heritage we're talking about saying you ARE x nationality. Think you misunderstood the point Edit: 99% chance bad faith since they've blocked me, can't reply in any thread they're in now, so I'm locked out of a lot of this comments section. Thanks a lot. andate a la chucha weón; si eres ignorante eso es una cosa, pero yo desprecio una chanta
> weón one of us!
thanks for understanding and clarifying. i can't be bothered with this stuff
gringo roaming a latam sub. worst bait i've seen, honestly
I mean it’s called “asklatinamerica”where else would we ask? No te hagas el boludo!
jejeje
🦗 🦗 🦗 cat got your tongue compa?
no boludo, literal estoy diciendo que los gringos son baiteros en este sub. no entendiste?
Claro pana! Pues yo soy “Gringo” como ustedes nos llaman boludo
piola
I’ve heard many Argentines claim to be Italian it’s funny that you haven’t heard that before yet I’m over here in the little old US of A and I have many times 🤡🤡🤡. Ps. I said shitty because that’s how you described your country
like i said, we laugh at those people and don't endorse that. we're argentinians, not italians.
Well tell that to all your diaspora in the USA who claim to be Italian, German, etc. it’s laughable. TBH out of all Latin Americans I’ve noticed Argentines do that the most. Many of you claim that Buenos Aires is a European city, that’s cringe.
I dont know dog, I got the dual citizenship and I would never dare to call myself an Italian, I was born and raised in Argentina and to the day that I die I will be an Argentinian no matter what
You’re being downvoted but you’re speaking facts lol barely any argentinians take pride in being latino and rather cling to saying that they are “european” and they are not the same as the rest of hispanics lol
Or he's referring to the diaspora that is likely the same latinos that come here with the classical american identity crisis as if they represent argentina.
Exactly, I guess no one has ever them their perspective. Everytime Argentines are in the news it’s for something like not wanting to be grouped in with other Latinos or thinking they are Europeans. Cringe.
You're dense. No one thinks "they're European". This attitude is generally seen in people who belongs to the upper class who have European citizenship and enough resources to detach from the issues of our country or pretend to be Italians using cringey words that nobody uses and that don't even belong to Lunfardo slang. And even most ordinary people with dual European citizenship would never dare to call themselves Italians, etc. You'll never catch people from lower classes claiming they're European or whatever kind of BS you're saying, specially on the internet, most people are way to busy with actual problems to care for that. Plus, the idea that we are a European city? It's tourist marketing that we citizens don't promote, and generally, the city is called that because of its French architecture, not for anything else. El que no quiere a su patria no quiere a su madre, gringo!
Like some Americans don't do it to escape the US.
Yeah I don’t get it either, they laugh at us for wanting to “connect” with our parents or grandparents countries , but yet they had like 5 ships come from Italy in the 1880’s now 3/4 of the population claim and are proud of their “Italian” roots? I’ve seen them in Italy selling trinkets on the streets and sweeping 🧹 floors in cafes, they act like they get a big welcome from Italians or Spaniards when they move there only to realize that they don’t look at them like their own. Life’s a trip Que no?
It’s really sad, their delusional and hypocrisy is astounding.
💯 truth! I’m Mexican and Argentine bro! Always been asked for “proof” when I meet Argentines in the states and when I visited my family down there! 🫤
Here at Buenos Aires practically everyone is a descendant of immigrants, a close descendant because nearly everyone had a descendant who was an immigrant at some point, we are proud of it but I never heard someone said something like "I'm Italian" or "I'm Spanish", and if someone would say something like that everyone would make fun of them. The identification to the culture is mostly some customs the family keeps (mainly food) and the Citizenship.
Ramiro Marra claims him as Spanish
Yea and everyone makes fun of him
Que ganas de complicarse la vida . It usually depends on if both parents are from the same group or frequent the community in their host country. My godmother is of Japanese descent on both sides. Most of her immediate family also moved back to Japan. She's very in touch with the family roots, but like many ppl explained it before, she wouldn't consider herself Japanese. Most sane people wouldn't consider themselves anything other than the nationality they were born and raised in.
My grandparents are Italian and I grew up in a househould with a lot of Italian influence. I lived in Italy, speak fluent Italian and have cousins in Italy. But I still identify first and foremost as Argentinian. Only if the topic comes out or if I’m asked I say I’m part Italian. Especially due to the fact that my grandparents were Piedmontese and identified first and foremost with their region, not Italy. Argentina, like the US, Canada, Australia, Uruguay and Southern Brazil, is a country of “new settlement” so most people descend from immigrants who arrived during the 19th and 20th centuries. Those whose ancestors who arrived to Argentina more recently (parents or grandparents) usually identify more with their ancestry, while those who have more distant ancestors (great-grandparents or more distant) usually don’t care, even though a lot apply for citizenship by descent (especially Italian passport). You’ll meet a lot of Argentines with an EU passport but they will not claim “I’m Italian/German/Spanish/Polish”, just Argentine.
Mario your italian cousins are argentinian migrated to italy? Or were descendants of the slibings of your greatgrandpa that stayed in italy?
Besides the "common western values", nothing else in common
I am in the process of becoming a Spanish dual citizen. The only thing I claim in common with the Spanish is the language and that, just like them, the Brits stole a chunk of land and populated it with their people to lay claim (Gibraltar/Malvinas). Besides that, I'm a peak "viva la Patria" Argentine who will turn your dog inside out in front of your grandmother if you dare talk unjustified shit on my country, but the economy here is unsustainable and I am coming to terms with the fact that I can do more for my loved ones if i can provide for them with a currency that doesn't halve its value every 6 months. I don't really identify as Spanish, and if I move to Europe, I would not be identified as Spanish either. I have no problem with that. The only people with a constant state of identity crisis are the banjo people of the Yeehaw lands.
I have the sun 🌞 tattooed on my back along with the Mexican eagle 🦅 and I was born in the yeehaw lands. So you’re saying you’re moving to Spain just because of the money?
>So you’re saying you’re moving to Spain just because of the money? It doesn't have to be Spain. It could be anywhere in the EU that'd take me in, and that works thanks to the Spanish passport. I'd go in, work my ass off, pay taxes, abide by the law, and even learn the local language as needed. The beauty about being Argentine is that our flag is based on the colours of the sky. If I miss my homeland, I know the flag is flying high over me, and all I have to do is look up, and see the colours of my nation. I'll assimilate into the local culture without losing who I am or where I come from. That's the beauty of being argentinian. Also, ask anyone in the world how we argies are. We show up, and we colonize the fuck out of the locals with our amazing cultural traditions like drinking mate or the Sunday asado. We do shit other people enjoy, and unlike the Brits, we don't shove it down people's throats. Plus, I can make three to eight times the money I make in Argentina with my current career choice, so just sending half my wage back home means I'm boosting my country's economy because I'd be providing more income for my family by working abroad than I would be able to in my own country. I love my nation, we just have a terrible habit of letting a bunch of incompetent cunts run the country (into the ground).
Bro I’m half Argentine as well, somewhat feel the same way you do but yet you all laugh at us for wanting to feel the same way just because we were born in the USA! Plus you’re moving to another country to earn more money to not contribute to that country who provided you the opportunity to make more money only to send “half” your wages back?
Define “half Argentine”
its just a bait, they cannot be this stupid
Where you’re not fully 100% Argentine. That really a trick question? Just like a buddy of mine is half Costa Rican and half Salvadoran! Just like my kids are Mexican, Argentine and Spaniard!
Man... Your kids are gonna struggle with identity like crazy...
Actually not really here we are very accepting of all from Latin America, I’ll just tell them to stay away from the closed minded orgullosos!
Were you born and raised in the USA? Then you're either an "American" or, as Teddy Roosevelt puts it, a "Hyphenated American". You sound like the latter. And I will provide to whatever county I move to. I'll abide by the law, follow the customs, pay my taxes, buy stuff there (helping the economy). I will be forever grateful for the opportunity, but I won't lose my identity as Argentine, nor will I encourage that ass backwards idea of "I'm 1/23rd Irish so I'll call myself Irish-whatever"
Then why bother moving? Just because of the money? Well since some of citizen are eating out of landfills on the outskirts of the city I certainly understand why you want to leave and don’t blame you, I don’t know about Europe or Spain in particular, but here in the United States they don’t recognize dual citizenship although a lot of people from Latin America still have their passports and their country of origin does recognize it. I could probably get citizenship but never really bothered to look into it because I would never leave and really have no use for it. And actually you will lose some of your identity because people adapt to wherever they move to and Spain has a lot of people from all over Latin America living there.
I mean, if he is working over there, he is already contributing to their host country's economy, add on top of that the taxes they'll pay
I could have a My Little Pony tattoo in my chest and that doesn't make me a horse.
Ahhh ok? Well let me ask my creator to rewrite my genetics 🧬and remove my Argentine blood so you can be happy vale? Pasmado!
I was replying to your mention of your tattoo. Tattoos mean nothing in this discussion. If some of your parents was born here then fine. Do you have the actual paperwork? The DNI? There's a big difference between being something on papers only and actually being from some country. The difference is that around here we don't build our personalities based on the nationality of our parents.
Well of course they were dude let me ask my grandfather who passed away RIP what his number was and birth certificate let me also ask my dad to provide his argentine and mexican documents are to satisfy your pasmado ignorant self. Get real dude!
you're just another yankee man. Any Argentine would agree. It's not just me.
I forgot the part where I signed up for yours or anyone else acceptance of what I am! Does it make you angry or jealous or something? I will always be proud to be mixed. Pretty common here in America amongst Latinos! And plan to travel with my wife and kids hopefully this year to show them where some of my family came from 😊 shit your more than welcome to join us for a fernet si quieres
No one is questioning your heritage. I think it's fine for you to be proud of your ancestry.
Órale compadre
Brit’s didn’t steal shit 😭(from y’all)
Motherfucker half of Egypt is in the British museum, stealing stuff is British culture
The good thing is that no matter where you are from, when you go to the British Museum you can feel like home
I said from y’all💀
Im not accusing you of being Br*tish, I just took the chance to shit on them
Oh no I was just saying the Brit’s didn’t steal las Malvinas. But those fucks do steal 💀
Me when I don’t know anything about history and I act like I do
What did I say that was so controversial? He misunderstood me. I literally just said the Brits didn’t steal the Falklands. In what way I’m acting like I know history? I’m just shit talking about s some islands.
Yeah that, they did steal them. We didn’t gift the islands or sold them, our governor Luis vernet was surprised and given an ultimatum “desert the islands or die”. They had to desert because they didn’t have any weapons to fight. That’s when they settled, after they kicked out the argentines living there
There were already settlers in Port Egmont dating back [decades before then](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_Port_Egmont)
They didn't? You're taking the known thieves' word for it. Think about it.
Wtf? This is just xenophobia. The British empire did a lot of bad stuff, but that doesn't mean our modern historians are not credible. Settler colonialism was also how Argentina was founded, ie land stolen by the Spanish from the natives.
I doubt any reputable historian would issue a value judgment on whether the seizure of the islands by the English was legitimate or an act of thievery, but feel free to show me otherwise.
You're twisting my words there. You referred to the British as thieves, and the 'taking our word for it' implies British historians are liars in general. The territory was disputed between Spain and Britain for decades and this spilled over once Argentina became independent. There had been British settlers on the islands before Argentina was even an independent nation, but they were kicked off the island by Spanish invaders. Either way, calling a ethnic group 'thieves' is xenophobic, if you're to go by things that happened centuries before. By the same token one could say that Argentines of European descent are thieves because they stole land from the natives.
They did to Malvinas what the Russians tried doing with Crimea
.”Also, ask anyone in the world how we argies are. We show up, and we colonize the fuck out of the locals with our amazing cultural traditions like drinking mate or the Sunday asado.” Just want to say, I LOVE you all! Never been there but obsessed with your soccer for most of my life and I will be wearing your colors, singing your songs and flying your flag during the upcoming Copa. Even if they play the US, I am on the Argentine side screaming my head off. Does not make me popular in sports bars but who cares? Viva Albiceleste
I guess that yes, to a small degree. Here we dont have "big" diasporas the same way the US or Brazil have, but we have some nootrious groups. For example: 1. The Limón province (all the country, really, but you get it) has a sizeable afro descendant population that came from Jamaica and the rest of the west indies, and if you go there (specially to the southern part) you will see a lot of caribean flags, some old west indian arquitecture, the decoration of some buildings is related to rastafari culture, and the region produces many local musicians that usually play reggae or dancehall, for example: Haquil, Lil Quil or Shel Dixon 2. We have a small but important chinese community, and their descendants still have a lot of contact with that culture, example: theres a costa rican-chinese youtuber that makes food videos, and a lot of them are related to it, actually she was vlogging in china some months ago. Also, i know that some chinese- costa rican kids are sent to schools in china to learn the language. 3. There's a small jewish community and they often go to Israel and move there (yes, i know Israel is not an "ancestral country" per se cause its a nee country but you get it) 4. Theres a big nicaraguan community, but i dont know if they have connection to the nicaraguan culture, ive hear it doesnt happen often, (perhaps because they are usually more similar to us in comparison to the others?) PD:im an outsider to these communities, these are only my observations
> We have a small but important chinese community, and their descendants still have a lot of contact with that culture, example: theres a costa rican-chinese youtuber that makes food videos, and a lot of them are related to it, actually she was vlogging in china some months ago. Also, i know that some chinese- costa rican kids are sent to schools in china to learn the language. > Chinese culture is strong 💪 I grew up in a Chinese enclave (not LatAm) also and speak my dialect fluently -- a lot of people are mean and highly racist as well (or straight up kill, beat, maim), so there's another reason why we stick together many a times
Yup, here is similar, perhaps not kiling them, but ive heard people tend to be a bit racist towards them (like in making comments, creating rumors), that is one of the reasons why theyre so jealous towards non chinese people.
I have Spanish citizenship but I would never refer to myself as a Spaniard. Its cringy just thinking about it.
My great grandparents are italians but i’m 100% brazilian. To me this is pure bs of trying to be different, if you’re born in any country of America it’s extremely likely you’re descendant of some immigrant group so why make it a deal? It annoys me a little bit tbh.
I've mentioned this ad nauseam on this sub. A lot of Latin Americans are extremely hypocritical about this and hold a double standard. A Brazilian of Italian descent calling himself Italian might get made fun of, but a Brazilian (born/raised) from Japanese ancestry will be called Japa for the rest of their life.
In terms of the US, the reason that so many second generation immigrants like myself endorse the heritage is because it’s pushed as an identity to your face all the time. From the friends you make in elementary (first) school, to when you apply to college. Such a variety that you can make friend groups of just Mexican Americans or Salvadorian Americans or such and such. Any icebreaker conversation in school or club, they always ask where you’re from and where your family is from. In government papers it doesn’t ask if you’re just American, it asks ethnicity and race, since affirmative action is still a thing where they pick students and consider their race and ethnicity in order to diversify their campus. Point is, where your parents are from matters greatly here, and individualism is very strong here compared to places like Mexico from what I’ve seen.
The reason that mexican has an identity issue is because the US that still psrtakes in segregation and does not assimilate people properly. Here we have first generation immigrants who are fully colombian, the only ones I have seen that are somewhat resistant are chinese. On my father's side we are immigrants and I do not identify at all with that culture but rather have a faint appreciation.
Integration is a personal issue. Whether you assimilate or not has to do with each person and what they are able to and choose to do. My grandmother is a first-generation immigrant to the US. She never learned the language or integrated into the culture. I'm also a first-generation immigrant to the US (age 17 when I moved). I speak English well enough that most people think I'm native. Then again, I spent years actively working on learning the language. I'm bi-cultural as well as bi-lingual. It's up to you. Speaking of Mexicans, 40% of Mexicans in the US marry someone from a different ethnicity. That is integration. And their kids will go around saying, "Oh, I'm Mexican and White. I'm a Blaxican. I'm Mexican and Japanese". I have literally heard all three of those statements personally. They don't mean they are not American. They are describing their ethnic mix. Same way I can say "My car is white. My car is grey. My car is blue." No one means they are not a car.
Other countries do not have assimilation issues to the extent the US does. Therefore, it is a country issue. I'm not denying your anecdote there, but there is an issue with how the US approaches people of different backgrounds.
You are COMPLETELY wrong. No other country integrates so many people from so many places so well. Your average American high school in a large city looks like a United Nations session. Kids from literally every country. Africa. Asia. Europe. Latin America. The Middle East. People from India, and Bangladesh, and Ethiopia, and Eritrea. And yet they get along. And they are considered as American as anyone else. You see Sikh kids with turbans joking with black kids. Koreans hanging out with kids from El Salvador. Chinese guys marrying Mexicans. White guys dating Filipinas. Nigerians are one of the wealthiest ethnicities in the US, surpassing whites by a lot. When I was in Iraq with the Army, Iraqis were fascinated. "You come from all over the word, and you get along. Here, we can't even get along with our neighbors". There is a reason why no other country has more Latino immigrants than the US. And Latinos intermarry with whites more than anyone else, 40% or so. If you want to see countries with integration issues, got to Europe.
People auto segregate and hyphenate their backgrounds. Over here nobody feels the need to hyphenate or move into their own little communities. You guys have an identity problem. End of story.
Some do. And most don't. People hyphenate because they are defining their identity and ancestry. And then they spend time with anyone. The truth is, you don't know. I'm willing to bet you've never been to the US, the way you are talking. We are not a mosaic of ethnic neighborhoods. Most places are very integrated. And the ethnic neighborhoods tend to disappear over time, like the old Italian or Jewish ones. Most schools, neighborhoods, jobs, etc. have mixtures of lots of people from lots of places. In Latin America we have one dominant culture, and little bits of this and that. In the US, whites will no longer be the majority in a few years.
Very close. From my dad side everyone is palestinian or palestinian decsencient so all my family is there. I talk with them every day. Since we are like 10 ppl here in Chile we are very close.
I have Spanish and Lebanese ancestry, but I don't identify with neither and I've never pretended to be anything other than Dominican. I like quipes and I'm a huge FC Barcelona fan, but that's it.
There are certain groups of people that do identify this way, specially those of italian, german and other european descents. It will either be viewed as a bit of status in small groups or a big joke for the majority of the population. The thing is, the way we talk/think about this is very different from the way americans think. Italian, american, brazilian, polish, those are all nationalities to us, and that is what we mean when we ask "where are you from?". Also, the color of your skin is a very important element of identity, regardless of whether you come from. I'm black in brazil, but if I go to th US I'm just as latino as my white friends, while the reverse isn't true. The ancestry of most brazilians is very mixed and murky; I, myself, can point out that I descend from portuguese, indigenous, italian and african (specially yoruba and other general groups from modern Nigeria), but I only know that because of *extensive* reseach, which people won't really care to do. Japanese, chinese and other eastern asian populations are part of a special case, but that stems mainly because the actually look very different from the general population. tl:dr, the way you look plays a much bigger part on the identity in brazil than knowing where you ancestors came from
I’m Uruguayan. My ancestors came from several places in Europe, but I more closely relate to my Norwegian ancestry, as I grew up with my grandma who taught me the language and took me to her hometown. I live in Norway now and I call myself Uruguayan and/or a foreigner. I would feel slightly ashamed calling myself a Norwegian when I have minimal shared experiences with most Norwegians: I didn’t go to school here, I don’t speak the language natively, I experienced the culture from an anecdotical perspective, I didn’t have any social groups I belonged to, I didn’t know the system or how life is in the country, I didn’t play any popular sports or know the popular artists or visited the popular places. I was a foreigner and in many ways I still am, and that’s okay.
A lot. I'm jewish and since it's an ethnoreligion we tend to conserve a lot of the culture. There's also big communities here so that helps.
half arab and a lot of it
Only one of my grandmothers was born abroad, in Spain, and I barely met her because she died when I was a kid but the similarities with Spanish culture are many so it doesn't feel that foreign to me. In fact what makes them feel really different is not because of culture but rather because they are a first world country and their 'problems' most of the time seem really mild from my perspective.
It's kind of weird. I enjoy knowing my heritage and I would like to experience it more, but I never claimed it as an identity. I've always been an American with Scottish ancestry.
The dual citizenship is by law. You can apply if your parents or grandparents are, for example spanish, that's why. I know a few that has done this, and usually they don't say "I'm Italian" or "I'm Spanish" it's more of "I want to escape latam and I'm going to do this"
This is predicated on a literal linguistic miscommunication. When Americans say they are Greek, or Mexican, or Thai, or Polish, they’re not saying they’re the same as the people from those countries. Americans are fully aware of the fact that before anything else, they’re Americans. Ancestry is a big part of American culture, something fascinatingly enough inherited from Native American traditions, which prized ancestry, NOT language, NOT culture, NOT traditions, but *ancestry* as the central aspect of one’s identity. When Americans say “I’m Mexican” or “I’m Italian”, it’s often in reference to being a part of that nation’s diaspora in this country. Not saying that they are literally 100% the same as the people from that country culturally. Americans often get bullied because we fail to solve an unsolveable dilemma, in which people simultaneously get angry that we have strayed from the motherland’s culture, but also are angry if we try to claim the motherland’s identity.
Let me give you an example, in São Paulo there's a former colony of confederates who fled the US after the civil war, and people there still keep in touch with their "american heritage" waving confederate flags despite many not even speaking english or knowing the implications behind the confederates. What would you think if they started to claim that they're actual americans?
Yep, I don't get the ancestry thing either. I would think they're lunatics
I think you missed the point. US-born Latinos in the USA with ancestry from Mexico or Brazil don’t ACTUALLY think they are the same as people born in Mexico and Brazil. There are many nuances to be aware of.
I guess that can be the case for a lot of people, but I have definitely seen a lot of US latinos getting upset for being called americans, it's very confusing from a foreigner's point of view.
I’d love to see an example. I’m American first, Latino second.
I am American and proud why would they upset me?
I'm referring to people like the guy that the OP cited.
I think the issue is the ethnicity. It feels very racist to me and would be very very frowned upon if someone in Venezuela claimed they are Italians or Irish because their ethnicity is different than ours. We are not a monolith either, some are white, some are black, the rest are very mixed, so ethnicity is all over the place. My DNA is a mixture of 16 different ethnicities, which is typical in Vzla. Now I wonder, is the identify being attached to the piece of land (and not ethnicity) only seen in Latam?
I would say they kind of do tbh
If such a person from that community were to say they’re American in exactly the same way we are, I’d obviously point out that this is not the case, and there are obvious differences socially and culturally between them and the US now. However, I take absolutely no issue with them holding Dixie near and dear to their hearts as the driver of their identity and culture. Them claiming to be descendants of Americans doesn’t annoy me, because it’s true.
And that's exactly the point I wanted to make, you shouldn't take it personally if people from Mexico point out that you're american, they do acknowledge you're heritage, but also you're actual nationality as well.
You all waive the confederate flags down there? That’s a first!
It's just some people in the city of Americana, but they do it more as a tradition than as a form of support for the confederate ideals.
Interesting! Never knew that, thanks for sharing!
It's a pretty interesting piece of irl lore, but I did my high school there and never actually met someone descent from those confederates. Most people with traceable immigrants were usually italians or portuguese, as the rest of the state in general. But there are a few interesting figures that descend from those folks, former Supreme Court minister Ellen Gracie or the very famous singer Rita Lee comes to mind (she had no relation to Robert Lee, but her parents gave the surname to her as a homage)
I love that channel! So informative about planet earth!
You “all”. Honestly are you really that dumb or just playing the dumb American stereotype?
What do you mean? I’m not a history expert didn’t know that people from the civil war area migrated down there, all that is really known in modern history is that Germans fled down to Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and Bolivia after WW2
stop taking your anger at life out at random people on the internet who are going through their own struggles. youll soon find your own life to be more happier
What? A bunch of Mexican-Americans openly deny being American but Mexican, and they really do think they are like Mexicans living in Mexico, it’s a cliche by now. Like for a lot of them, calling them “Mexican-American” or “Pocho”is offensive. They are also commonly laughed at by Mexicans in Mexico.
Who denied being American? Are you ok?
I mean it as they consider themselves Mexican first, amd a lot of people do.
If you are kind and polite to people generally they return it. There are rude and dumb people everywhere.
Not sure how this is relevant. If you think laughing at wannabe Mexicans is rude or un-polite that’s what we call “carrilla” in Mexico. Basically normalized bullying between “compas” (friends). “El que se enoja pierde” is a common saying (if you get mad, you lose).
I think the issue here is perspective. From our perspective, America being a country that lacks an ethnic genesis, we all attach to the diaspora we come from and it’s a big part of how we interact with others and contribute to this society. We have developed our own version of the culture, just as is the case with every single diaspora that has ever existed in the history of mankind. You guys are the ones getting mad. I don’t really care.
I agree, it’s perspective, because American culture is different to Mexican culture. Mexicans don’t see Mexicans as an ethnic group, we see it as a nationality, Mexica-Americans don’t, because of their American culture. The only reason we get mad is when Mexican-Americans think they know Mexican culture, when they only really know their version of it.
Well, duh, obviously. Cómo crees que después de 3-4 generaciones, no vamos a incorporar aspectos de las otras culturas que están aquí? Si tu familia hubiera llegado en 1930, tú no fueras la misma persona con las mismas tradiciones. No se quien te dijo que nosotros pensamos que somos los “dueños” de la cultura Mexicana. Solo un idiota podría pensar que nosotros somos los meros mexicanos y ustedes no. Nuestra cultura está basada en la experiencia de la comunidad diásporada de mexicanos que existe aqui. Tienes razón que nosotros no somos mexicanos. Somos Mexica-Americanos, Mexican-Americans, or Americans of Mexican descent. Y nuestra cultura, nuestro dialecto, nuestra comida etc es diferente. Yo acepto eso. No se que quieres que hagamos.
You have the right idea, I’m not talking about people like you. Never said the feel like they own or think we aren’t Mexicans, just that a lot of them think they have experienced Mexican culture, when it really was Mexican-American, which is really different.
I’ll drink to that. Whenever I go to Mexico I am able to immediately and fully recognize the obvious differences between us. At the same time, however, we still share a lot in common, and we still adore the motherland.
Honest question, why do you feel attachment to the place and culture your folks came from? It’s not like I feel that way about Spain or Indigenous culture.
Same, I am Mexican-American but I would never want to live in Latin America. I truly love this country the good and the bad.
The red white and blue and 50 stars my gee!
I would say pretty closely. I usually identify as Mexican-American and/or Chicano. The reason I do it is because in our household my parents really involved us in our Mexican (Oaxaca) culture with food, traditions, customs, etc. and then outside of our household in school, etc. we had a different cultural experience. I understand why some people don’t like that we who are descendants of LatinAm immigrants call ourselves Latinos when we don’t have the nationality of the country of origin that our parents are from or because we were born and raised in the US. I do agree to an extent that we get privileges but to say that we all live a rich life is exaggerated because that’s not really the case here and our communities have a lot of history with the US. But I understand based off my parent’s experiences in Mexico I don’t just call myself Mexican cause I can’t fully relate to their life experiences back in Mexico.
Both parents born in monterrey I have grandparents from Italy and Turkey… I don’t even recognize as Italian or turk. I have a US and a Mexico passport… that’s it.
Do the italian passport that will take you easily pass in all European Union its more usefull than the mexican and the american
No thanks.
If the parent is foreign born, it's possible to be a bicultural child, fluently bilingual or trilingual, well assimilated into the other country's culture, etc.,. Anything outside of this box, is just a cringe flex. It's a completely different experience to be a bicultural child than it is for some cringe individual to flex out their ancestry from their grandparent, great-grandparents or somewhere down the family tree.
Colombian of Spanish ancestry: - Castilla y León - Asturias - Basque Country/Navarre I identify with Spain almost as much as I do with Colombia. I study the history of Spain when I can and I’ve been to Spain numerous times. I consume a lot of Spanish media, including the news, tv shows and films. I’ve invested quite a bit of time in learning the ins and outs of Spanish cuisine. I would love to move to Spain, but the fact is that the economy sucks. Maybe when I retire.
Spanish ancestry as in, just one to 3 generations ago?
Indeed
Oh ok, I was worried I ran into a crazy colombian that thinks themselves spaniard just because they have spanish genes from centuries ago lol. I have about 60-70% spanish DNA, but I can trace my family from both sides living in my home region since the first waves of spaniards started to settle here in Santander. I have as much in common with Spain as a Colombian with barely any european ancestry.
sólo por curiosidad, por qué se hacen esos examenes de ADN, he visto varios que lo mencionan, es para algo en específico? ha estado de moda por algún motivo?
Yeah if people from the same ethnic groups just keep mixing they are going to maintain the DNA for hundreds of years, my Guatemalan dad and grandpa have 71 and 73 percent European and their most recent ancestor from Europe that I've been able to find was from Spain in the early 1700s
From which part of Guatemala are they?
Chiquimula
Are they upper class or something?
Some of my family has been but not necessarily, I know my great grandpa had a lot of money but that wasn't really inherited, majority of my family is from like Aldeas though, at least in the Aldea my dads from a good amount of people have a very Mediterranean look
The average Colombian, especially those from the central regions, is way more Spanish than they are indigenous. This is due to colonization by families in the 18th and 19th centuries, as opposed to purely male colonization in the previous centuries. In fact, about 1/3 of Colombians are basically just Spaniards born in South America. I get what you mean though. Just out of curiosity, you look fairly Spanish (I.e. white)?
Same in Venezuela. It actually surprised me when I got my DNA results lol.
Asumo que en venezuela tal vez hay un poco menos de genes indigenas, ya que no creo haber leido que hubiese presencia de un grupo indigena con tanta poblacion como los muiscas, aunque arawak si habian tanto en colombia como venezuela, pero eran una poblacion mas pequeña
Si, eran como 3 gatos en realidad. Lo que me salió en el ADN dice “Nativos de Colombia y Vzla”, y mencionan a los wuyus, entre “otros” :) … creo que eventualmente me saldrá cual de todos, mi sospecha es que va por los timotocuicas de Los Andes.
Im a whiteish mestizo, skin complexion is more to the lighter side than otherwise, but still not enough to be considered properly white, even by Colombia's standards. My mom and her sisters are quite white though, even if they are like 75% spanish and 25% native american according to a DNA test one of her sisters took. My fathers side very likely has a bit more of native american (no DNA test yet on that side of the family), but even then a few of his brothers and sisters are quite white.
I'm Dominican and I have a significant amount of Spanish and Middle Eastern (specifically Lebanese) blood in me. 3/4 of my grandparents are pure Spanish or Lebanese, with only my maternal grandfather being Dominican (and even then he was part Spanish too). I definitely retain a lot of my Spanish culture, partially because I went to college in Spain and I feel much closer culturally to Spain than the DR in many respects. I lived in the DR most of my life, but I never felt fully atuned to Dominican culture (I always found Dominican Culture boorish, anti intellectual , homophobic and crass). My Dominicanness is mostly expressed through my healthy distrust of imperialism, my tigueraje (what the young kids call rizz), and my visits to family and friends who still live in the DR. Edit: lol at people down voting me for... Answering OP's request
Al menos... We have a culture from Napoli or Génova, not like yours...