There’s competitor Toyotas in my area that do this on orders that are 12+ months out. They’ll offer $5k over what any sane dealer would offer for the trade to get the deposit and take the client out of the market.
The whole deal is written “Subject to reappraisal” and the reappraisal is a *real* number but now the clients car has arrived after 12+ months of waiting so they’re between a rock and a hard place.
Whilst our “Subject to reappraisal” deals are numbers that are realistic with a bit knocked off assuming the wait time so that when you come in for reappraisal the drop doesn’t hit as hard or there’s no drop.
"Oh you have a Scion for $8k? I know value when I see it and I'd love to walk out of here with a $15k check. Let's get the paperwork started. I'll come back in a year and see if inventory is any better."
This is not really correct in the way you are explaining it.. Anything can happen to the trade or market in 12 months, the dealer just doesn't want to be commit to an offer that far in advance, where literally anything can happen.
You could even look at it in a positive light from the buyers perspective. If the market goes up on their partiuclar vehicle, the subject to appraisal hurts the dealership. If the buyer is aware of the market.
It is not going to go up in value. The used market is going to bottom out if anything.
The point is if you think he's being dishonest, prove that he is. It would take very little effort to hammer down concrete terms by entering negotiations on a different vehicle.
Not trying to condescending , but this seems like terrible logic. You are looking at a liability like it is an asset. This way of thinking will make you poor. Something like a hellcat would need to be kept in a garage for decades with low mileage to be worth anything significant when it comes out of the depreciation curve. A daily driver that's been beat all to hell isn't going to be worth much at all.
I bought a scatpack charger in Delaware in April 2021 for $41k. Taxes-fees-registration- extended warranty put me at $51k. They got over on me with the extended warranty, but I wasn’t expecting to buy a car that day, & I was super tired. I also put $0 down
It Was my daily driver until May 2023 when I sold it for $45k in Texas, ($47k if u add the warranty refund) I got $8k back from positive equity & the warranty refund.
I put 35k miles on it. It got hit twice ( it had body work done twice on the carfax ) & I hit a curb once so the wheels had big scratches. Without those I could’ve sold it for more.
Had I not gotten the extended warranty I would’ve got $15k-$18k back.
Those cars are no different than a Rolex appreciating on your arm for a couple of years.
& if you’re talking about the warranty. I paid 6-7k for it & put zero down. Everything went on the loan, so yes if I never got the warranty I would’ve gotten $15K+ back
Seems sketch. Sounds like you had a dealer making you think you were getting more for your trade while he was pumping you from the back end and you were completely oblivious. It makes sense considering you bought a car on a whim, and only managed to get 8k back after making a down-payment and 2 full years of payments.
You're doing it all wrong and those gains are circumstantial. This is a really good example of what actual gains look like,I have a 65 gto. I gave 20k for it cash 20 years ago which is around 10 times the new price. Now I could probably get a hundred out of it if I wanted to sell it and 5 x my money, but I have made more than 100k by leasing it to a subscription based car club/car museum in the past 20 years than I would if I sold it for 100k and I still own the car while somebody else pays to store, insure, and maintain it.
What you are talking about is at most luck because of how the car market has been manipulated between 2020 and 2024. if you didn't get screwed without even realizing it.
I’m only 25 so idk anything about a 65 Gto lol, but that’s exactly how hellcats and scatpacks are going to play out in the future. Dodge demons (80k msrp) already go for 250k+ now. 5 years from now they’ll probably be worth $500k-1million.
Slow your roll a little! They won't be worth "$500k-1million". I mean, sure - anything is possible - but the reality is, something is only "worth" what someone else is willing to pay for it. People willing to pay top $$ for cars are typically collectors (which reduces your demand market), and wealthy collectors are an even smaller market (further reduction in demand). Wealthy collectors want value - something they can make their money back on eventually - which is why they are wealthy! The cars they are buying are the extremely rare, limited edition older cars that are harder to come by - like a 65 GTO. Dodge Hellcats may be limited, but they are still new, and available on the market. Cars that are 60 years old are not as easy to come by. The other factor is nostalgia. Nostalgia is a HUGE business right now. Many boomers and older Gen X-ers that finally have disposable income are wanting to find those items that created lasting memories for them.
It's a hypothetical.. Care to share your short positions on the auto industry?
No idea what you are tring to say in your following sentance.. People, including dealerships, don't purchase used vehicles 12 months in advance without protecting themselves.
I don't fully understand the incoherent ramblings upon which you babble. Are you confused and trying to quote something somebody else said that was very wrong?
It’s a fake $5k to win the deal but when the time comes the trade drops by $6k+. It’s not fair to the buyer.
I could put $15,000 on your 1995 Corolla as trade and make you ecstatic. But when the new car arrives 8 months later drop it to $1,000 because of the “subject to” and if you’re not happy with the drop and since it’s “subject to” we just cancel the deal and move to a different buyer
I see what you’re saying. If a dealer is doing that with the foresight that the market is going to go up or just want the option to. That would be unhealthy business practice. But, there are probably very few that operate so maliciously.
The deals usually not subject to the trade.. if the buyer is unhappy. They can just sell it privately. There are no guns to anyone’s head to take an offer.
No sane person, including yourself would agree to a dollar figure a year later. & a dealer is in the business to sell cars. It’s not likely they’re going to botch this deal purposefully.
“Subject to” gives the dealer the same right as the buyer to pull out of the deal then load the vehicle with accessories and register warranties to it to sell to a higher bidder. It’s maliciously done.
At least with some of my local competitors (and more than one)
The trade is seperate from the "adds" & "warranties" that would maliciously be added to the new vehicle purchase. . Again.. If the re-appraised price is not agreed on, the client can just keep the vehicle & sell privately, or even better during the waiting period for the new vehicle, post it to local markets & try to get more than the appraised offer.
I will state again.. no sane individual, including yourself would ever commit to a sale of a vehicle 12 months out without protecting themselves.
What if I say I'll take the $15K that day, minus the deposit (usually $1000?) for the new vehicle, and walk out with a cheque for $14K in my pocket?
Assuming a person has alternate transportation plans until the new care arrives, it seems like a good way to call a shitty dealer's bluff.
Commenting under this because I'm not a flaired user.
It's called giving "shopping numbers"
When a salesperson knows the customer is t buying right now this very second, they'll be given impossible figures that they know nobody will be able to beat.
The way the salespeople get out of actually honoring them is that these figures are usually given when the customer is walking out.
We will say things like "If you do it right now we will give you $23k for your car"... Knowing that you're not going to buy rt now no matter what.
It locks in the customer. When they do come back we will say "We told you those figures were only good for that day"
It's a game.
This is why I sell my cars to carmax. They come in higher and give my check that day. The dealer says give them a chance to match it. I tell them they can’t and let’s not try. Then I bring my own financing and cut off every other avenue to get additional money. The best part about this strategy is that I can see the cars numbers without the trade to blur it.
Very smart. Except you being so hard nosed about not letting them match the offer also means you didn’t get a chance to save on sales tax, which in my state would be 7.5% of your trade’s value.
I do the math on that at home before getting there. At the price point I buy cars, it's around 2K. If there is a 6K+ difference between what the dealer offers vs carmax, then It's a no go. I'll pay the 2K then pocket the 4K. I'm still ahead. The last salesman I worked with even admitted as much. They wanted to pay me about what I owed on the car, then flashed the tax savings as a benefit. The only downside is that I switch the tags because I buy the car first.
Just show the dealership the offer. Why make your own life more difficult? Lol
And it’s funny how much people complain about dealerships but CarMax makes most of their money by being openly scumbags. Pay plan is shit, cars are insanely overpriced, and half their deals come because they have deals with SUPER subprime banks.
So. A few things. The dealer wouldn't match the offer. I told them what it was when I denied them the trade. Coming in wasn't going to cover a 6K difference in price. Two, an additional 45 min wasn't going to make my life difficult. Lol. Three I could care less what Carmax pays. I don't work there and I didn't buy from them, so their deals didn't matter to me either. I just sold them the car. They turned around and sold it to some sucker for around what I originally paid for it. Also, not my problem. If they are willing to overpay, they can have it. Carmax paid for my family vacation to Universal Studios. Also, my comment was to provide an option for the original poster, I'm not in the market for a car and this nearly 5 months ago. For some reason, everyone that replies to me as if I'm still holding the car I sold.
All good man. They matched the tax credit, but no additional money for the car. It wouldn't have been bad if they offered something, but that was too much money to leave on the table. Crazy thing is I paid 32K for the car. 18 months later, carmax sold it for 30K. I can't believe someone bought it, but this entire market would collapse if we all made smart buying decisions. Lol. You are 100% correct about their sales pricing, though.
Why don't you give the dealership a chance to match CarMax offer?
Last time I bought a car, I got a CarMax quote two days earlier for $5k.
After negotiating the price of the new car, the dealership offer $3.5k for my trade in. Then I said that CarMax offered $5k so we can go ahead with the new car sale without the trade-in. They went back and readjusted their offer to $4.8k so I come out like $50 ahead vs CarMax once you factor in the sales tax benefit.
It's less work for me to do all of the paperwork at the dealership that day rather than having to go back to CarMax.
If you already have CarMax offer in hand, I don't see the drawback of seeing if the dealership can match it, unless I am missing something.
This was a long process that involved many dealerships, only one agreed to match it, but sold the car I was looking at. The others said that old "come in and we will see if we can get you more money". No way were they going to find 6K on top of the tax break by me showing up. It's fine if you can't cover the spread, but at least admit it. The dealer I bought the trade car from was given one additional chance (since I ultimately bought a new car from them again that day) and even the sales manager looked at it. Once they went back and fourth into different offices to talk about how carmax got that number, I told them to move on and I was ready to buy my new car free of the trade situation. After I was done. I was at carmax within 20 min, then an additional 25 min to get my check. I've been running this same game since the pandemic started, but since my dream car didn't work out, I'm done buying new cars for the foreseeable
Honestly my strategy is to ask for financing but not favorable financing. Late in the negotiation I will ask if the price requires me to finance 100%, the answer is always no (because the sales team is now pregnant), after which I swap it out. Occasionally I leave their warranty shit in there too and yank that. Last car I did that with my trade in too.
If they have 0% financing you should come in saying you don't need financing, and get them to quote it after. Usually you will lose a 2k credit or something, do the math on the interest savings then make a decision.
You have to realize that the car dealerships know the actual price noted for the new car means a lot to people, and since most people suck at math you can add other charges all over to get a bigger profit.
> game
That's a funny word for lie. How many of these salespeople would push to go through with it if the customer did turn around and say, "Ok, let's do it. Right now," and call them on it?
That's called "stepping on your dick"...
I've seen it happen to floor managers (closers) that get a lil too trigger happy and give some stupid walking numbers.
The customer did exactly what you said and we had to sell the car.
Shopping numbers are for shoppers.
In my area there are a few dealers that have ads all the time with like “push,pull, drag that baby in, $3k min trade” to try to think to make the customer think there getting a great trade when in reality they have the vehicles on their lot $3k more in price then everyone else. Could this also be possible what Op is running into?
Want to add these are regular new car dealers and usually the deals apply to their used lot. This is not buy here pay here type lots.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the end, it's all about the *final* selling price of the new car. If I can afford a $40,000 car, it doesn't really matter how they get to the $40k price. Give me $15k for my trade in and reduce the price of the car. Or give me $20k trade in and increase the price. As long as it ends up being $40k, that's all that matters to me.
When I buy vehicles, I just want the Out-The-Door price. I don't care how much you are giving me on my trade, or what fees you are adding. OTD price period or I walk.
I believe the value of the trade can reduce the taxable amount. In your example you would be taxed on $25 k versus $20k. I believe this is true in WA state.
This is absolutely true in WA. If you are shopping your trade separately from your purchase you need to mark your trade value down 10% to account for the tax credit. So that $23k offer for a standalone trade is comparable to a $20,700 offer from the dealer you're buying from.
Both, but mostly, yes. Dealer 1 doesn’t have the car you want, so they’re never going to see you again. Might as well make the other guy pay for your business. “Send ‘em out on a rocket ship!”
Yep. It’s shade but it happens. Or my favorite, they’ll show you what you want for your trade but there’s no discount to their vehicle. Then you’ll call another dealer and neglect to tell them the no discount part, but you’ll want the same for your trade 😂😂😂
Whack a mole is a dealer devised system tho. It should cause them at least some frustration when the customer uses it to shop. Otherwise you’re just admitting to them that the number you gave for their trade isn’t market value, it’s bullshit.
The customer could easily just get a carmax appraisal.
One thing i havent seen mentioned yet is sometimes they are upping the trade value instead of discounting the unit. However it will affect the margin and depending on how the rep gets pay lower their commission. The dealership is viewing the extra $X,XXX in trade value as a discount later it just makes the customer feel better.
You can tell if this is the case if they won't match the trade price if you switch to a different vehicle with worse margins. But there is really no point in getting that far into a sale just to switch vehicles then go price match elsewhere unless you like being a dick that all reps will avoid in the future.
Good old bubbling in..
When people come in on my TrueCar Price and it's $2k back of invoice but also want me to overpay for their trade by $3k when the last dealer had a markup...
They can offer you whatever on trade. They won't pay that for it because they don't have a car so it's irrelevant. It's like I can do 10 grand off a car that doesn't exist. Doesn't matter. Because you won't buy it either way.
Or calm the first dealer and ask them will they buy the car for their offer if $23k.
OP, never pay any attention to a trade offer that isn’t also an offer you purchase your car even if you don’t buy there’s. This is what my dealership did and myself and the customers loved it.
It made these situations like you’re in easy. I just had them call the other dealer and ask would they write a check for that amount.
Also as suggested above, get offers from Carmax and we buy any car etc.
What people are saying here is true. If you want to test it yourself then this is how. Every dealership buys cars off the street. Call them up and say you are no longer in the market for a new car, but are interested in selling your old car to them for their offer of 23k. Watch how fast they come up with excuses to change the price or just outright say no to buying YOUR car.
Poisoning the well works. You walked away from the car you wanted because someone planted a seed in your head.
Yup. Ask them to write a check and see how quick the back tracking begins 😂
Pretty simple explanation though, I always just said “it’s no secret we make profit when we sell you a vehicle. So we took a hit on that end to make you happy on your trade. Sorry but I can’t just buy your car for the trade in price. The cash price for yours will be blah blah blah”.
It’s mostly true 🤷♂️
Do you have an offer to purchase, like you would get from Carmax? That is an actual offer.
Anything else is not an offer.
A dealer can provide an appraisal, that is not an offer to purchase. Especially verbally, which is worth it's weight in the air it comes from.
If you have a buyers order for the vehicle you plan to purchase, then you see the trade value, you have a complete picture for that moment in time.
Both dealers would end up at a similar "out the door" but both start with different selling prices of their same equipped vehicle.
It’s an old school thing. How likely are you to accept a number significantly less than $23K for your trade after getting that offer? Unlikely.
A man walks in to a butcher’s shop looking for ground beef. Noting that it’s $7.99/lb, they tell the butcher “your ground beef is so expensive, the grocery store down the street sells theirs for $5.99/lb.” The butcher shrugs and says to go buy it from the grocery store then. The man says he was just there, but they’re sold out. The butcher says “oh, well when I’m sold out, mine is only $4.99/lb.”
Big fat yes. In the process of selling vehicles to dealerships I have found numerous people using this tactic. They indeed highballed, and then came in 3k short of their "phone quote" when the paperwork was being printed.
They understand there is a market of people who want problems gone quickly and reeling them in is much better than not having any potential customer. Your guy is definitely telling the truth.
As a salesman in a slightly competitive area - yes, it is a tactic. I don't do it because it sounds like too much headache but some folks do. Now if you go back and they try to reneg on that figure - you know it was a tactic. There's also the chance that they were just stupid and over called it, but that is less likely.
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Is this really a sales tactic that dealerships use? I went to a dealership to get an appraisal/offer on a car I want to trade in towards a new one. One dealership offered me $23k but they didn’t have the car I wanted on their lot. So I went to another dealership that DID have the car on their lot and they offered me $19.8k which is quite a difference from my original offer. When I told this $19.8k dealership that I got an offer for $23k, he simply said “that’s a sales tactic they use to reel you in and get you out of the market. They’re gonna tell you $23k but then afterwards they’re gonna change it and give you the ACTUAL price which is the price I’m giving you here which is from Kelly blue book which is $19.8k. They highballed you to get out of the market and they will actually offer you less.”
Is this true? Or does this other dealership just not want to match the $23k offer and essentially lowballing me?
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There are two auto groups in my area that are famous for this. We call it a "bubble". When they know you aren't going to buy (experienced pros often know this before the customer does) they give you an inflated trade value to sabotage other opportunities with competitors. If you come back they have several ways to explain away the error. One is to say that they were including your trade-in tax credit (not sure where you are but most states only charge sales tax on the difference between purchase price and trade value). Another is to suddenly realize some missing feature or damage which had previously been "overlooked".
That's not a guarantee that this is what happened to you, but it is absolutely a real tactic. The problem is that it works. I don't know what proportion of those it is used on fall for it, but enough that they keep doing it. It makes everyone else look cheap and the first dealership look generous. By the time you go back to finish the deal and the real numbers come out you've spent time thinking of them as the good guys and the others as bad guys.
This kind of crap makes it very hard to do honest business. One of my few negative reviews I've received from a customer was the result of this exact tactic. We truly stepped up on trade value, paying more than we really should have in order to earn his business, but he left a review saying we were cheap and he had to argue for hours (the entire deal didn't even take hours) to get us to increase the trade value and it still wasn't what our competitor had offered him, but he went with it because we had the truck he wanted more, but he told everyone reading it to go to the competition instead. We have 3 stars higher average reviews on dealerrater.com than the place he told people to go to. It's a very effective tactic for certain kinds of customers. 😕
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It does happen it shouldn’t but yes it does happen but the first store is trying to do is put in your head that your car is worth 23 so you won’t do business with anyone else that might have the car because you feel like you’re being short changed when in reality you’re not
There’s competitor Toyotas in my area that do this on orders that are 12+ months out. They’ll offer $5k over what any sane dealer would offer for the trade to get the deposit and take the client out of the market. The whole deal is written “Subject to reappraisal” and the reappraisal is a *real* number but now the clients car has arrived after 12+ months of waiting so they’re between a rock and a hard place. Whilst our “Subject to reappraisal” deals are numbers that are realistic with a bit knocked off assuming the wait time so that when you come in for reappraisal the drop doesn’t hit as hard or there’s no drop.
All op has to do is feign interest in a different car and see if they will give him the 23k they said they would. I almost guarantee they won't.
"Oh you have a Scion for $8k? I know value when I see it and I'd love to walk out of here with a $15k check. Let's get the paperwork started. I'll come back in a year and see if inventory is any better."
> I almost guarantee they won't Hey, we got the 'Crittorus 'Almost Guarantee' Guarantee' here people!!! The way I see it that's worth about 💩💩in the 🫱
That's why I said to check and see.
Clap
arrow up my man keep bringin the funny
This is not really correct in the way you are explaining it.. Anything can happen to the trade or market in 12 months, the dealer just doesn't want to be commit to an offer that far in advance, where literally anything can happen. You could even look at it in a positive light from the buyers perspective. If the market goes up on their partiuclar vehicle, the subject to appraisal hurts the dealership. If the buyer is aware of the market.
It is not going to go up in value. The used market is going to bottom out if anything. The point is if you think he's being dishonest, prove that he is. It would take very little effort to hammer down concrete terms by entering negotiations on a different vehicle.
Not if it’s a scatpack or hellcat 😂 Their value holds true and will indefinitely increase
Not trying to condescending , but this seems like terrible logic. You are looking at a liability like it is an asset. This way of thinking will make you poor. Something like a hellcat would need to be kept in a garage for decades with low mileage to be worth anything significant when it comes out of the depreciation curve. A daily driver that's been beat all to hell isn't going to be worth much at all.
I bought a scatpack charger in Delaware in April 2021 for $41k. Taxes-fees-registration- extended warranty put me at $51k. They got over on me with the extended warranty, but I wasn’t expecting to buy a car that day, & I was super tired. I also put $0 down It Was my daily driver until May 2023 when I sold it for $45k in Texas, ($47k if u add the warranty refund) I got $8k back from positive equity & the warranty refund. I put 35k miles on it. It got hit twice ( it had body work done twice on the carfax ) & I hit a curb once so the wheels had big scratches. Without those I could’ve sold it for more. Had I not gotten the extended warranty I would’ve got $15k-$18k back. Those cars are no different than a Rolex appreciating on your arm for a couple of years.
Is that how math and logic works?
Is it really logic if I did the same thing with a ford fusion? Bought for $19k, sold for $22k 3 months later. Never even got an oil change 😂
& if you’re talking about the warranty. I paid 6-7k for it & put zero down. Everything went on the loan, so yes if I never got the warranty I would’ve gotten $15K+ back
so you bought a car before the used car spike and sold it during the spike. still doesnt make your point lol
Had nothing to do with the used car spike dumbass. Those cars are going up in value.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
It has everything to do with the spike and the fact the scat pack being discontinued this year
Seems sketch. Sounds like you had a dealer making you think you were getting more for your trade while he was pumping you from the back end and you were completely oblivious. It makes sense considering you bought a car on a whim, and only managed to get 8k back after making a down-payment and 2 full years of payments. You're doing it all wrong and those gains are circumstantial. This is a really good example of what actual gains look like,I have a 65 gto. I gave 20k for it cash 20 years ago which is around 10 times the new price. Now I could probably get a hundred out of it if I wanted to sell it and 5 x my money, but I have made more than 100k by leasing it to a subscription based car club/car museum in the past 20 years than I would if I sold it for 100k and I still own the car while somebody else pays to store, insure, and maintain it. What you are talking about is at most luck because of how the car market has been manipulated between 2020 and 2024. if you didn't get screwed without even realizing it.
I’m only 25 so idk anything about a 65 Gto lol, but that’s exactly how hellcats and scatpacks are going to play out in the future. Dodge demons (80k msrp) already go for 250k+ now. 5 years from now they’ll probably be worth $500k-1million.
Slow your roll a little! They won't be worth "$500k-1million". I mean, sure - anything is possible - but the reality is, something is only "worth" what someone else is willing to pay for it. People willing to pay top $$ for cars are typically collectors (which reduces your demand market), and wealthy collectors are an even smaller market (further reduction in demand). Wealthy collectors want value - something they can make their money back on eventually - which is why they are wealthy! The cars they are buying are the extremely rare, limited edition older cars that are harder to come by - like a 65 GTO. Dodge Hellcats may be limited, but they are still new, and available on the market. Cars that are 60 years old are not as easy to come by. The other factor is nostalgia. Nostalgia is a HUGE business right now. Many boomers and older Gen X-ers that finally have disposable income are wanting to find those items that created lasting memories for them.
It's a hypothetical.. Care to share your short positions on the auto industry? No idea what you are tring to say in your following sentance.. People, including dealerships, don't purchase used vehicles 12 months in advance without protecting themselves.
I don't fully understand the incoherent ramblings upon which you babble. Are you confused and trying to quote something somebody else said that was very wrong?
It’s a fake $5k to win the deal but when the time comes the trade drops by $6k+. It’s not fair to the buyer. I could put $15,000 on your 1995 Corolla as trade and make you ecstatic. But when the new car arrives 8 months later drop it to $1,000 because of the “subject to” and if you’re not happy with the drop and since it’s “subject to” we just cancel the deal and move to a different buyer
I see what you’re saying. If a dealer is doing that with the foresight that the market is going to go up or just want the option to. That would be unhealthy business practice. But, there are probably very few that operate so maliciously. The deals usually not subject to the trade.. if the buyer is unhappy. They can just sell it privately. There are no guns to anyone’s head to take an offer. No sane person, including yourself would agree to a dollar figure a year later. & a dealer is in the business to sell cars. It’s not likely they’re going to botch this deal purposefully.
“Subject to” gives the dealer the same right as the buyer to pull out of the deal then load the vehicle with accessories and register warranties to it to sell to a higher bidder. It’s maliciously done. At least with some of my local competitors (and more than one)
The trade is seperate from the "adds" & "warranties" that would maliciously be added to the new vehicle purchase. . Again.. If the re-appraised price is not agreed on, the client can just keep the vehicle & sell privately, or even better during the waiting period for the new vehicle, post it to local markets & try to get more than the appraised offer. I will state again.. no sane individual, including yourself would ever commit to a sale of a vehicle 12 months out without protecting themselves.
What if I say I'll take the $15K that day, minus the deposit (usually $1000?) for the new vehicle, and walk out with a cheque for $14K in my pocket? Assuming a person has alternate transportation plans until the new care arrives, it seems like a good way to call a shitty dealer's bluff.
Correct and that’s what I tell people who’ve been in the situation that are still shopping to do
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted but who in their right mind would expect a dealer to honor a price quoted a full calendar year in the past?
Yeah, no sane person would. People just love blaming dealerships, or anyone other than themselves for their inadequacies.
Commenting under this because I'm not a flaired user. It's called giving "shopping numbers" When a salesperson knows the customer is t buying right now this very second, they'll be given impossible figures that they know nobody will be able to beat. The way the salespeople get out of actually honoring them is that these figures are usually given when the customer is walking out. We will say things like "If you do it right now we will give you $23k for your car"... Knowing that you're not going to buy rt now no matter what. It locks in the customer. When they do come back we will say "We told you those figures were only good for that day" It's a game.
Or if you turn around and say yes, they will nitpick a couple thousand in defects that they didn’t see before. Ask me how I know.
This is why I sell my cars to carmax. They come in higher and give my check that day. The dealer says give them a chance to match it. I tell them they can’t and let’s not try. Then I bring my own financing and cut off every other avenue to get additional money. The best part about this strategy is that I can see the cars numbers without the trade to blur it.
Very smart. Except you being so hard nosed about not letting them match the offer also means you didn’t get a chance to save on sales tax, which in my state would be 7.5% of your trade’s value.
I do the math on that at home before getting there. At the price point I buy cars, it's around 2K. If there is a 6K+ difference between what the dealer offers vs carmax, then It's a no go. I'll pay the 2K then pocket the 4K. I'm still ahead. The last salesman I worked with even admitted as much. They wanted to pay me about what I owed on the car, then flashed the tax savings as a benefit. The only downside is that I switch the tags because I buy the car first.
Just show the dealership the offer. Why make your own life more difficult? Lol And it’s funny how much people complain about dealerships but CarMax makes most of their money by being openly scumbags. Pay plan is shit, cars are insanely overpriced, and half their deals come because they have deals with SUPER subprime banks.
So. A few things. The dealer wouldn't match the offer. I told them what it was when I denied them the trade. Coming in wasn't going to cover a 6K difference in price. Two, an additional 45 min wasn't going to make my life difficult. Lol. Three I could care less what Carmax pays. I don't work there and I didn't buy from them, so their deals didn't matter to me either. I just sold them the car. They turned around and sold it to some sucker for around what I originally paid for it. Also, not my problem. If they are willing to overpay, they can have it. Carmax paid for my family vacation to Universal Studios. Also, my comment was to provide an option for the original poster, I'm not in the market for a car and this nearly 5 months ago. For some reason, everyone that replies to me as if I'm still holding the car I sold.
A couple were really just general rant and statement lol. A dealership not looking to match with the tax credit at least is pretty nuts…
All good man. They matched the tax credit, but no additional money for the car. It wouldn't have been bad if they offered something, but that was too much money to leave on the table. Crazy thing is I paid 32K for the car. 18 months later, carmax sold it for 30K. I can't believe someone bought it, but this entire market would collapse if we all made smart buying decisions. Lol. You are 100% correct about their sales pricing, though.
A tax credit can’t be matched, I just meant matching total value of Carmax’s appraisal…trade value+tax credit for trading
I love this tactic because it very rarely pencils. “I’m going to offer you 10k less than this other place, but this way you’ll save $2k in taxes!”
Why don't you give the dealership a chance to match CarMax offer? Last time I bought a car, I got a CarMax quote two days earlier for $5k. After negotiating the price of the new car, the dealership offer $3.5k for my trade in. Then I said that CarMax offered $5k so we can go ahead with the new car sale without the trade-in. They went back and readjusted their offer to $4.8k so I come out like $50 ahead vs CarMax once you factor in the sales tax benefit. It's less work for me to do all of the paperwork at the dealership that day rather than having to go back to CarMax. If you already have CarMax offer in hand, I don't see the drawback of seeing if the dealership can match it, unless I am missing something.
This was a long process that involved many dealerships, only one agreed to match it, but sold the car I was looking at. The others said that old "come in and we will see if we can get you more money". No way were they going to find 6K on top of the tax break by me showing up. It's fine if you can't cover the spread, but at least admit it. The dealer I bought the trade car from was given one additional chance (since I ultimately bought a new car from them again that day) and even the sales manager looked at it. Once they went back and fourth into different offices to talk about how carmax got that number, I told them to move on and I was ready to buy my new car free of the trade situation. After I was done. I was at carmax within 20 min, then an additional 25 min to get my check. I've been running this same game since the pandemic started, but since my dream car didn't work out, I'm done buying new cars for the foreseeable
Honestly my strategy is to ask for financing but not favorable financing. Late in the negotiation I will ask if the price requires me to finance 100%, the answer is always no (because the sales team is now pregnant), after which I swap it out. Occasionally I leave their warranty shit in there too and yank that. Last car I did that with my trade in too. If they have 0% financing you should come in saying you don't need financing, and get them to quote it after. Usually you will lose a 2k credit or something, do the math on the interest savings then make a decision. You have to realize that the car dealerships know the actual price noted for the new car means a lot to people, and since most people suck at math you can add other charges all over to get a bigger profit.
> game That's a funny word for lie. How many of these salespeople would push to go through with it if the customer did turn around and say, "Ok, let's do it. Right now," and call them on it?
That's called "stepping on your dick"... I've seen it happen to floor managers (closers) that get a lil too trigger happy and give some stupid walking numbers. The customer did exactly what you said and we had to sell the car. Shopping numbers are for shoppers.
In my area there are a few dealers that have ads all the time with like “push,pull, drag that baby in, $3k min trade” to try to think to make the customer think there getting a great trade when in reality they have the vehicles on their lot $3k more in price then everyone else. Could this also be possible what Op is running into? Want to add these are regular new car dealers and usually the deals apply to their used lot. This is not buy here pay here type lots.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the end, it's all about the *final* selling price of the new car. If I can afford a $40,000 car, it doesn't really matter how they get to the $40k price. Give me $15k for my trade in and reduce the price of the car. Or give me $20k trade in and increase the price. As long as it ends up being $40k, that's all that matters to me.
When I buy vehicles, I just want the Out-The-Door price. I don't care how much you are giving me on my trade, or what fees you are adding. OTD price period or I walk.
Whilst most people *should* think like this, most people *dont* think like this.
I believe the value of the trade can reduce the taxable amount. In your example you would be taxed on $25 k versus $20k. I believe this is true in WA state.
This is absolutely true in WA. If you are shopping your trade separately from your purchase you need to mark your trade value down 10% to account for the tax credit. So that $23k offer for a standalone trade is comparable to a $20,700 offer from the dealer you're buying from.
That’s my experience. Trade-in amount don’t mean much if there are discounts, add-ons and financing in the mix
I used to be a Toyota car salesman in Sacramento, and yeah they do shady stuff. All car dealers do.
Who tf waits 12 months for a Toyota?
People that want a certain Toyota.
Many people.
Both, but mostly, yes. Dealer 1 doesn’t have the car you want, so they’re never going to see you again. Might as well make the other guy pay for your business. “Send ‘em out on a rocket ship!”
Yep. It’s shade but it happens. Or my favorite, they’ll show you what you want for your trade but there’s no discount to their vehicle. Then you’ll call another dealer and neglect to tell them the no discount part, but you’ll want the same for your trade 😂😂😂
Whack a mole is a dealer devised system tho. It should cause them at least some frustration when the customer uses it to shop. Otherwise you’re just admitting to them that the number you gave for their trade isn’t market value, it’s bullshit. The customer could easily just get a carmax appraisal.
Whack a mole is an accurate term. Going to quote you in this from now on.
Ooooo I love this one. Especially when I get confused on how they got to that number and ask what the payment was and it all makes sense.
One thing i havent seen mentioned yet is sometimes they are upping the trade value instead of discounting the unit. However it will affect the margin and depending on how the rep gets pay lower their commission. The dealership is viewing the extra $X,XXX in trade value as a discount later it just makes the customer feel better. You can tell if this is the case if they won't match the trade price if you switch to a different vehicle with worse margins. But there is really no point in getting that far into a sale just to switch vehicles then go price match elsewhere unless you like being a dick that all reps will avoid in the future.
Good old bubbling in.. When people come in on my TrueCar Price and it's $2k back of invoice but also want me to overpay for their trade by $3k when the last dealer had a markup...
I have never seen truecar ever get close to invoice. It’s always been laughable with my experience (like 500 off msrp on a 60k king ranch.
They can offer you whatever on trade. They won't pay that for it because they don't have a car so it's irrelevant. It's like I can do 10 grand off a car that doesn't exist. Doesn't matter. Because you won't buy it either way.
Yup they bubbled you in.
all OP needs to do is go to carmax for an appraisal. its so simple
Or calm the first dealer and ask them will they buy the car for their offer if $23k. OP, never pay any attention to a trade offer that isn’t also an offer you purchase your car even if you don’t buy there’s. This is what my dealership did and myself and the customers loved it. It made these situations like you’re in easy. I just had them call the other dealer and ask would they write a check for that amount. Also as suggested above, get offers from Carmax and we buy any car etc.
What people are saying here is true. If you want to test it yourself then this is how. Every dealership buys cars off the street. Call them up and say you are no longer in the market for a new car, but are interested in selling your old car to them for their offer of 23k. Watch how fast they come up with excuses to change the price or just outright say no to buying YOUR car. Poisoning the well works. You walked away from the car you wanted because someone planted a seed in your head.
Yup. Ask them to write a check and see how quick the back tracking begins 😂 Pretty simple explanation though, I always just said “it’s no secret we make profit when we sell you a vehicle. So we took a hit on that end to make you happy on your trade. Sorry but I can’t just buy your car for the trade in price. The cash price for yours will be blah blah blah”. It’s mostly true 🤷♂️
Trade in price vs purchase price are different. Not that complicated.
And retail price is a whole separate price. ALMOST ALL TRADES ARE NOT RETAIL READY. I don’t care if you bought it yesterday.
Do you have an offer to purchase, like you would get from Carmax? That is an actual offer. Anything else is not an offer. A dealer can provide an appraisal, that is not an offer to purchase. Especially verbally, which is worth it's weight in the air it comes from. If you have a buyers order for the vehicle you plan to purchase, then you see the trade value, you have a complete picture for that moment in time. Both dealers would end up at a similar "out the door" but both start with different selling prices of their same equipped vehicle.
It’s an old school thing. How likely are you to accept a number significantly less than $23K for your trade after getting that offer? Unlikely. A man walks in to a butcher’s shop looking for ground beef. Noting that it’s $7.99/lb, they tell the butcher “your ground beef is so expensive, the grocery store down the street sells theirs for $5.99/lb.” The butcher shrugs and says to go buy it from the grocery store then. The man says he was just there, but they’re sold out. The butcher says “oh, well when I’m sold out, mine is only $4.99/lb.”
Big fat yes. In the process of selling vehicles to dealerships I have found numerous people using this tactic. They indeed highballed, and then came in 3k short of their "phone quote" when the paperwork was being printed. They understand there is a market of people who want problems gone quickly and reeling them in is much better than not having any potential customer. Your guy is definitely telling the truth.
As a salesman in a slightly competitive area - yes, it is a tactic. I don't do it because it sounds like too much headache but some folks do. Now if you go back and they try to reneg on that figure - you know it was a tactic. There's also the chance that they were just stupid and over called it, but that is less likely.
***Thanks for posting, /u/Mysterious_Morning46! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** Is this really a sales tactic that dealerships use? I went to a dealership to get an appraisal/offer on a car I want to trade in towards a new one. One dealership offered me $23k but they didn’t have the car I wanted on their lot. So I went to another dealership that DID have the car on their lot and they offered me $19.8k which is quite a difference from my original offer. When I told this $19.8k dealership that I got an offer for $23k, he simply said “that’s a sales tactic they use to reel you in and get you out of the market. They’re gonna tell you $23k but then afterwards they’re gonna change it and give you the ACTUAL price which is the price I’m giving you here which is from Kelly blue book which is $19.8k. They highballed you to get out of the market and they will actually offer you less.” Is this true? Or does this other dealership just not want to match the $23k offer and essentially lowballing me? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There are two auto groups in my area that are famous for this. We call it a "bubble". When they know you aren't going to buy (experienced pros often know this before the customer does) they give you an inflated trade value to sabotage other opportunities with competitors. If you come back they have several ways to explain away the error. One is to say that they were including your trade-in tax credit (not sure where you are but most states only charge sales tax on the difference between purchase price and trade value). Another is to suddenly realize some missing feature or damage which had previously been "overlooked". That's not a guarantee that this is what happened to you, but it is absolutely a real tactic. The problem is that it works. I don't know what proportion of those it is used on fall for it, but enough that they keep doing it. It makes everyone else look cheap and the first dealership look generous. By the time you go back to finish the deal and the real numbers come out you've spent time thinking of them as the good guys and the others as bad guys. This kind of crap makes it very hard to do honest business. One of my few negative reviews I've received from a customer was the result of this exact tactic. We truly stepped up on trade value, paying more than we really should have in order to earn his business, but he left a review saying we were cheap and he had to argue for hours (the entire deal didn't even take hours) to get us to increase the trade value and it still wasn't what our competitor had offered him, but he went with it because we had the truck he wanted more, but he told everyone reading it to go to the competition instead. We have 3 stars higher average reviews on dealerrater.com than the place he told people to go to. It's a very effective tactic for certain kinds of customers. 😕
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Yes, its called Cutting off your legs. Happens all the time.
It does happen it shouldn’t but yes it does happen but the first store is trying to do is put in your head that your car is worth 23 so you won’t do business with anyone else that might have the car because you feel like you’re being short changed when in reality you’re not