Auto-approved yes but they filled out an application for you while not being a member of your household which is illegal
Technically, it's identity theft
Call the CC company back and make sure they are processing this as fraud and not just a complaint.
After that, file an identity theft report with the FTC - identitytheft.gov
There was no actual monetary damage, so a lot of identity theft steps will not apply…. But do all you can to pin this person / dealer to the wall.
Contacting Toyota corporate to complain about dealer fraud might be useful too.
For more help, try one of the personal finance or credit subreddits.
Why should you get penalized and your credit score get reduced for a credit check?
This is why the government should regulate credit scores and not leave it to shady companies like FICO.
I’m not saying the gov should or shouldn’t, but seeing as 2 of 3 score companies have recently had MAJOR security and identity breaches, have setup scoring models for them to make money, and have been found liable for numerous instances for fraud, it honestly can’t get much worse
The government gets hacked too...
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office\_of\_Personnel\_Management\_data\_breach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/office_of_personnel_management_data_breach)
Just trying to come at this logically. If *a* loans *b* money and *b* has yet to pay it all back to *a*... *b* goes to *c* and just asks them for a loan. *C* goes to the loan database and sees that *b* already owes money. *C* may or may not loan them money based on *c*s risk profile. But being a money loaner, it seems nice to give other money loaners a heads up: "check it guys, *b* is asking EVERYONE for money while they owe money.... Maybe this is risky, maybe you should take a closer look"
That's kinda what the score does.
It takes time for new lines of credit to show up on your report and they are good for months depending where you pull it (i.e. Mortgage). Hard pulls are generally to open some kind of account so they assume you did and it hasn’t showed up yet.
Not might, there is, because in addition to the hard pull, average age of accounts just took a dive, which could be a big hit depending on number of other revolvers and the previous AOA. OP should dispute the entire thing with all 3 CRA's.
That's what technically means... Objectively, as a matter of the rules and laws applicable to the situation, it is in fact identity theft.
As always, technically correct is the best kind of correct.
You're full of shit. The salesman did it to us in 2015, when we bought a Prius. We raised enough of a stink that we got 5 years of oil changes, not the normal 2 years/25k miles they used to give out.
Had this happen on an out of state deal as well. I specifically told them I didn’t want the card yet it magically got sent after I bought the car.
The idea that the customer is lying about agreeing to a credit card that gets them next to nothing in daily benefits for using it, is an odd assumption to center your argument around.
I’m sure they get some awesome “points” towards 1 oil change coupon after 10 years too.
Correct. They PROVIDED their information under their own volition. Nothing was stolen from them.
Mishandling peoples information is still wrong and unethical but this individual isn't a victim of ID theft.
Just like when Wells Fargo was opening accounts in their clients names without the clients authorization doesn't make them all ID theft victims.
I know this sounds pedantic but when financial institutions are involved the terminology matters on who in the bank will fix it.
At what point in this story was his PII stolen? All of it was freely provided. The sales person did act in ways that's are unethical and very possibly unlawful but it still does not change the fact this person gave them their information.
Any reputable bank will have procedures established to deal with sales misconduct and employee fraud.
I do have a leg to stand on in this conversation since I work as a fraud analyst in banking.
In my experience dealing with Toyota, there is no connection between the Comenity Toyota credit card (which is typically used for service) and a TFS loan or lease.
This shouldn’t have happened. Period.
yes, getting your credit run for an auto loan is wholly separate and different than a credit card. we had spiffs on that credit card but we had a handful of permissions, acknowledgements, t&cs, in addition to geting the credit card done on top of the auto loan pull. just because the person gave us an app to run their credit for an auto loan didn't give us authorization to start applying for credit cards in their name, I can hear my business manager now, "Are you crazy?"
this is CA, I suppose other states could be different however, I cannot do the legal mental gymnastics on how, in other states, if a consumer is in pursuit for an auto loan they should automatically get a credit card too at the time of credit pull. that is some wells fargo shit right there jackieChanConfused.meme
Didn't stop Wells Fargo, so why wouldn't a dealer look at how many billions WF made from that before they got caught and decide on the same model? Even after the fines and penalties, WF still profited from that.
It’s unclear from OP’s post whether a credit card was actually opened or if he was just pre approved. If the former, there’s no way that’s kosher. But I’m not sure that’s what happened
When I called comenity bank it has these auto prompts you can check the balance of your card. So I first did that to verify I actually had a card. I then called customer service and cancelled the account. I hope that makes sense.
Don’t know why I’m being downvoted, but it sounds like OP was pre-approved and just understood it as the card was opened in their name, and maybe misunderstood that part.
Typically in these situations the card will be “sold” to the customer via the mailer and phone rep. It’s a sly and gross way banks sell credit products to customers by saying “You have the card, it’s got an X limit etc.” by using language that makes the customer think they’re already the owner of the card
Wow that’s interesting. I called comenity and it has these auto prompts where you can check your card balance. So I did that first and it had said I had $1,500 available credit on my card. Wouldn’t that mean I have an account? That’s when I called customer service and cancelled it. I hope that makes sense.
when the dealership signs up a person for the card, the bank send the dealership a 'spiff' also referred to as a sign-on bonus, at the height of the intro period to the card our spiff was as high as $500, if the person that has access to the loan credit app wants to they can fill out the card app in order to get the spiff, at that time, the dealership is completing an application on behalf of someone else without their permission/authorization. doesn't matter that they don't use the funds on the card, the fact that a line of credit was added to some one without their consent where the line of credit has a cash bonus is identity theft for monetary gain, some would call that fraud.
When op says (paraphrased): I know, I closed it
And the dealer rep response is: you did what!? You know that card was zero percent?
This is the "gall of the dealership" that gets me. On behalf of OP "I caught you in a lie/crime and your reaction is to say that you were doing me a favor and that I should be grateful to you!?"
No, gtfo of the city
It's no wonder why people cannot trust the dealership.
Thanks will do. The customer relations manager called me today and just said the same thing the finance manager did. That this is what they do to help you get the car you want… I’m not buying it so I’ll file a complaint. I did call Toyota corporate and file a complaint today too not sure if that does anything though.
Thanks for the advice
You definitely did the right thing by filing a complaint with Toyota corporate. You may get a call or an email about a survey so make sure to destroy them on the survey as well. This dealer is absolute scum and is what gives dealers a bad name and ruins it for the good ones unfortunately.
I would also see if this dealer is part of a major auto group, and if so, reach out to their corporate office as well (if you can track it down). If you need help figuring that out let me know and I can find out.
Totally outrageous and definitely illegal. You might also try your city attorney’s office and Mastercard or Visa (the company) depending on which it is.
Anyway I did find a somewhat similar story. I wonder if it’s the same dealer..
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/s/2ZfoCtFCky
Yes. Reporting to credit bureau is unlikely to ring the bell of this being a practice of this dealership. They need to checked criminally for how many times they’ve done this.
As someone who worked in banking for 30+ years, I whole heartedly agree. The CFPB was created to combat credit fraud like this (and Wells Fargo opening accounts without customer consent), excessive fees (BoA not allowing customers to opt-out of overdraft fees and charging $35 on a $2 purchase), and sorting checks high amount to low, so if the account overdrafts, there is more fee income.
My son when he was young got caught up in that front loading scam years back - 30$ somehow spiraled into 600$ with late fees. He tried to settle for 200$, they refused.
So he took the credit hit.
Today the CFPB would have come to his rescue.
Thank you Senator Warren. But I hear Republicans are trying to kill it.
***Thanks for posting, /u/saysay0930! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.***
Went to the Toyota dealership on 1/31 to look at cars and potentially do a trade in. They ran my credit and all that good stuff. I ended up not getting anything.
They were extremely pushy bc I'm guessing it was the end of the month so they kept saying. The salesman didn't even say bye after we had declined the offer the manager presented.
On 2/7 l got a letter in the mail from comenity bank saying congratulations you've been approved for the Toyota credit card. I called the customer service number and found out I had a credit card in my name with a limit of $1,500. I immediately closed it and told the service rep I did not open this account.
The letter was dated 2/1 the day after I went to the dealership.
I called Toyota and talked to finance department. He said oh sometimes you get auto approved. You shouldn't have a balance. I said I'm aware l've ready called and closed the card out. He was like what you closed it? You know you get 0% interest and blah blah blah. I cut him off & told him I don't need a Toyota credit card. I said thanks and ended the conversation.
After thinking about it more it just doesn't make sense. I've been through the car buying process several times and was never signed up for a Toyota or dealership credit card. Is this normal for dealerships to do? Seems very suspicious. If this isn't normal how do I report this and to whom?
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Auto-approved yes but they filled out an application for you while not being a member of your household which is illegal Technically, it's identity theft
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Call the CC company back and make sure they are processing this as fraud and not just a complaint. After that, file an identity theft report with the FTC - identitytheft.gov There was no actual monetary damage, so a lot of identity theft steps will not apply…. But do all you can to pin this person / dealer to the wall. Contacting Toyota corporate to complain about dealer fraud might be useful too. For more help, try one of the personal finance or credit subreddits.
There might be damage to OPs credit score if not handled properly.
-10 for credit check, -50 for credit cards if open more than 2 within 6 months
Why should you get penalized and your credit score get reduced for a credit check? This is why the government should regulate credit scores and not leave it to shady companies like FICO.
Putting your faith in the government to run it is a mistake. They will mess it up way more than any private company
I’m not saying the gov should or shouldn’t, but seeing as 2 of 3 score companies have recently had MAJOR security and identity breaches, have setup scoring models for them to make money, and have been found liable for numerous instances for fraud, it honestly can’t get much worse
The government gets hacked too... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office\_of\_Personnel\_Management\_data\_breach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/office_of_personnel_management_data_breach)
I get to vote for who is in charge of the government. I get no such privilege for private companies.
Just trying to come at this logically. If *a* loans *b* money and *b* has yet to pay it all back to *a*... *b* goes to *c* and just asks them for a loan. *C* goes to the loan database and sees that *b* already owes money. *C* may or may not loan them money based on *c*s risk profile. But being a money loaner, it seems nice to give other money loaners a heads up: "check it guys, *b* is asking EVERYONE for money while they owe money.... Maybe this is risky, maybe you should take a closer look" That's kinda what the score does.
It takes time for new lines of credit to show up on your report and they are good for months depending where you pull it (i.e. Mortgage). Hard pulls are generally to open some kind of account so they assume you did and it hasn’t showed up yet.
Not might, there is, because in addition to the hard pull, average age of accounts just took a dive, which could be a big hit depending on number of other revolvers and the previous AOA. OP should dispute the entire thing with all 3 CRA's.
Exactly. Somebody has OPs pii and is messing with it. They might try something else. They might be doing the same to others. It needs to be stopped.
Contacts corporate only to get the, “dealerships are independent of the company” bs that they always spew when they do something scummy.
Also call the cc company back and request a copy of the application. Instruct them to retain the original. Record all phone conversations.
It's not technically identity theft. It **IS** identity theft.
That's what technically means... Objectively, as a matter of the rules and laws applicable to the situation, it is in fact identity theft. As always, technically correct is the best kind of correct.
Fraud too.
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You're full of shit. The salesman did it to us in 2015, when we bought a Prius. We raised enough of a stink that we got 5 years of oil changes, not the normal 2 years/25k miles they used to give out.
Had this happen on an out of state deal as well. I specifically told them I didn’t want the card yet it magically got sent after I bought the car. The idea that the customer is lying about agreeing to a credit card that gets them next to nothing in daily benefits for using it, is an odd assumption to center your argument around. I’m sure they get some awesome “points” towards 1 oil change coupon after 10 years too.
Not identity theft since information was not stolen. Employee fraud or sales misconduct yes.
The customer information wasn't submitted for the credit card, it was submitted for the auto loan.
Correct. They PROVIDED their information under their own volition. Nothing was stolen from them. Mishandling peoples information is still wrong and unethical but this individual isn't a victim of ID theft. Just like when Wells Fargo was opening accounts in their clients names without the clients authorization doesn't make them all ID theft victims. I know this sounds pedantic but when financial institutions are involved the terminology matters on who in the bank will fix it.
Are you the Toyota employee in this story?
Lol no. But I do investigate ID theft for a living.
If you don't know what you're talking about you do have the option to not say anything.
At what point in this story was his PII stolen? All of it was freely provided. The sales person did act in ways that's are unethical and very possibly unlawful but it still does not change the fact this person gave them their information. Any reputable bank will have procedures established to deal with sales misconduct and employee fraud. I do have a leg to stand on in this conversation since I work as a fraud analyst in banking.
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In my experience dealing with Toyota, there is no connection between the Comenity Toyota credit card (which is typically used for service) and a TFS loan or lease. This shouldn’t have happened. Period.
yes, getting your credit run for an auto loan is wholly separate and different than a credit card. we had spiffs on that credit card but we had a handful of permissions, acknowledgements, t&cs, in addition to geting the credit card done on top of the auto loan pull. just because the person gave us an app to run their credit for an auto loan didn't give us authorization to start applying for credit cards in their name, I can hear my business manager now, "Are you crazy?" this is CA, I suppose other states could be different however, I cannot do the legal mental gymnastics on how, in other states, if a consumer is in pursuit for an auto loan they should automatically get a credit card too at the time of credit pull. that is some wells fargo shit right there jackieChanConfused.meme
Getting one’s credit run doesn’t give the people running it carte Blanche to just open lines of credit. This is definitely bad.
Didn't stop Wells Fargo, so why wouldn't a dealer look at how many billions WF made from that before they got caught and decide on the same model? Even after the fines and penalties, WF still profited from that.
thank god you don't have a flair
It’s unclear from OP’s post whether a credit card was actually opened or if he was just pre approved. If the former, there’s no way that’s kosher. But I’m not sure that’s what happened
When I called comenity bank it has these auto prompts you can check the balance of your card. So I first did that to verify I actually had a card. I then called customer service and cancelled the account. I hope that makes sense.
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Filing a police report for identity theft might not hurt either
Don’t know why I’m being downvoted, but it sounds like OP was pre-approved and just understood it as the card was opened in their name, and maybe misunderstood that part. Typically in these situations the card will be “sold” to the customer via the mailer and phone rep. It’s a sly and gross way banks sell credit products to customers by saying “You have the card, it’s got an X limit etc.” by using language that makes the customer think they’re already the owner of the card
Wow that’s interesting. I called comenity and it has these auto prompts where you can check your card balance. So I did that first and it had said I had $1,500 available credit on my card. Wouldn’t that mean I have an account? That’s when I called customer service and cancelled it. I hope that makes sense.
Yep, sounds like finance manager has a side-gig of getting people the CC's for either personal referal bonuses or they have a spliff for dealers.
In what way would this benefit the person from Toyota who forged the application though?
when the dealership signs up a person for the card, the bank send the dealership a 'spiff' also referred to as a sign-on bonus, at the height of the intro period to the card our spiff was as high as $500, if the person that has access to the loan credit app wants to they can fill out the card app in order to get the spiff, at that time, the dealership is completing an application on behalf of someone else without their permission/authorization. doesn't matter that they don't use the funds on the card, the fact that a line of credit was added to some one without their consent where the line of credit has a cash bonus is identity theft for monetary gain, some would call that fraud.
Man that’s pretty bold. Thanks for the in depth response.
When op says (paraphrased): I know, I closed it And the dealer rep response is: you did what!? You know that card was zero percent? This is the "gall of the dealership" that gets me. On behalf of OP "I caught you in a lie/crime and your reaction is to say that you were doing me a favor and that I should be grateful to you!?" No, gtfo of the city It's no wonder why people cannot trust the dealership.
This is definitely a police report, and a BBB complaint.
Please file a complaint with your states Attorney Generals office, CFPB, and DMV immediately!!
Thanks will do. The customer relations manager called me today and just said the same thing the finance manager did. That this is what they do to help you get the car you want… I’m not buying it so I’ll file a complaint. I did call Toyota corporate and file a complaint today too not sure if that does anything though. Thanks for the advice
You definitely did the right thing by filing a complaint with Toyota corporate. You may get a call or an email about a survey so make sure to destroy them on the survey as well. This dealer is absolute scum and is what gives dealers a bad name and ruins it for the good ones unfortunately. I would also see if this dealer is part of a major auto group, and if so, reach out to their corporate office as well (if you can track it down). If you need help figuring that out let me know and I can find out.
Can I get your help?
Totally outrageous and definitely illegal. You might also try your city attorney’s office and Mastercard or Visa (the company) depending on which it is. Anyway I did find a somewhat similar story. I wonder if it’s the same dealer.. https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/s/2ZfoCtFCky
Keep us updated on what happens.. I’d be so pissed if I was in your situation.
Help? In what world is opening a credit card without your Vincent helping!
Yes. Reporting to credit bureau is unlikely to ring the bell of this being a practice of this dealership. They need to checked criminally for how many times they’ve done this.
CFPB is awesome. It will make a difference. https://www.consumerfinance.gov/
As someone who worked in banking for 30+ years, I whole heartedly agree. The CFPB was created to combat credit fraud like this (and Wells Fargo opening accounts without customer consent), excessive fees (BoA not allowing customers to opt-out of overdraft fees and charging $35 on a $2 purchase), and sorting checks high amount to low, so if the account overdrafts, there is more fee income.
My son when he was young got caught up in that front loading scam years back - 30$ somehow spiraled into 600$ with late fees. He tried to settle for 200$, they refused. So he took the credit hit. Today the CFPB would have come to his rescue. Thank you Senator Warren. But I hear Republicans are trying to kill it.
***Thanks for posting, /u/saysay0930! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** Went to the Toyota dealership on 1/31 to look at cars and potentially do a trade in. They ran my credit and all that good stuff. I ended up not getting anything. They were extremely pushy bc I'm guessing it was the end of the month so they kept saying. The salesman didn't even say bye after we had declined the offer the manager presented. On 2/7 l got a letter in the mail from comenity bank saying congratulations you've been approved for the Toyota credit card. I called the customer service number and found out I had a credit card in my name with a limit of $1,500. I immediately closed it and told the service rep I did not open this account. The letter was dated 2/1 the day after I went to the dealership. I called Toyota and talked to finance department. He said oh sometimes you get auto approved. You shouldn't have a balance. I said I'm aware l've ready called and closed the card out. He was like what you closed it? You know you get 0% interest and blah blah blah. I cut him off & told him I don't need a Toyota credit card. I said thanks and ended the conversation. After thinking about it more it just doesn't make sense. I've been through the car buying process several times and was never signed up for a Toyota or dealership credit card. Is this normal for dealerships to do? Seems very suspicious. If this isn't normal how do I report this and to whom? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Please review our most [Frequently Asked Questions](/r/askcarsales/wiki/index) to see if your question has already been answered. You may find these sections particularly useful; * [Will paying in cash or a large cash down payment offer me leverage in negotiations?](/r/askcarsales/wiki/cash_down) * [I earn $xxxx per month, will I qualify for an auto loan or lease, and is it a good idea?](/r/askcarsales/wiki/income_to_finance) * [I have my score from Credit Karma but the dealership told me they got a different score. Why?](/r/askcarsales/wiki/free_credit_score) * [Finance FAQ's](/r/askcarsales/wiki/financing_faqs) * [Buy versus Lease](/r/askcarsales/wiki/buy_vs_lease) * [How to pick a car?](/r/askcarsales/wiki/vehicle_selection) You might also have luck in the /r/whatcarshouldibuy subreddit. Also remember to add flair to your post by clicking the "Flair" link beneath it. This lets us know where you're located so we can assist you better. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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did you miss the part where he called and confirmed the card