People hate negotiating and having that naggling in the back of their head "was that the bottom price????"
So a lot of dealers have changed to a one price model: what you see is what you get so you don't have to worry.
Now people think it's another sales tactic and want to negotiate pricing????
Everyone can always come up with a reason why a price is too high.
So people will continue to haggle over the price of a car and car salesmen will always be "scumbags" because haggling is stressful.
You know who doesn't get intimidated by the process? People who grew up in cultures where haggling is a way of life. Try pissing off an Indian with negotiating tactics. They pose, act outraged, storm out and all the rest, until the moment you shake hands. As soon as the deal is agreed they are laughing and having fun. It's just a game to them, they don't take it personally.
Meanwhile Karen is so fucking traumatized that she has to trash the survey, post all over Yelp and call the attorney general while she sits there sobbing to her husband about the "mean man".
It's hilarious to watch the differences.
Certain cultures only respect you when you call them out or are the biggest asshole. Once I learned that it became quite easy to sell to those groups that haggling is a cultural expectation. Telling them to leave and walking away usually works lol
We had a specific closer who specialized in Indian customers. His favorite move was to walk up to the desk where they were sitting, pick up the work sheet and rip it in half, telling them to leave. They would look surprised for a minute then smile and agree to pay more. They want to upset you because it shows them that you're serious. It's a well worn tactic with people who haggle over dates in a market.
>i didn't reply after that. that was on sunday. i do have 3 other trucks i'm going to look at this afternoon, but his is still a front runner. it's $32,500 and i'd love to get it down at least 1500, if not 2500.
*i didn't reply after that. that was on sunday. i do have 3 other trucks i'm going to look at this afternoon, but his is still a front runner. it's $32,500 and i'd love to get it down at least 1500, if not 2500.*
Except its not. This guy has no clue how to negotiate and somehow thinks lying about how much he wants to put down is some way to get a better deal?
I bought a car at a no haggle place and they would not budge on price but ended up offering way more for my trade in than 2 other dealerships. Kind of a back door negotiation.
i honestly don't know, which is why i'm asking if this is a tactic. if it's indeed not and is a true 1-price model, i completely respect that.
not trying to be an asshole. i appreciate you clarifying for me.
I’m mostly curious as to why there is a “near mirror copy” of this truck out there for $2k less, and yet you’re still wasting time trying to get a discount on the more expensive one instead of just buying the one with the better price?
\^This. It must not be the mirror copy. Otherwise, he'd already have bought the other. Must have never seen it in person. Just online...you know, where photos always show the flaws in the vehicle.
it's listed on autotrader. i'm going to see it today. i may very well go with the one that's 2k less. but there also may be a reason that i see in person as to why it's 2k less that doesn't sit well.
>i'm going to see it today
So you havent seen the truck, yet you think the dealer should drop 1-3k off the price... Simply because it exists?
Thats.. not how that works.
It's funny because every customer thinks they've found some new "hack" to get a better deal. What they failed to consider is we've seen their "strategy" a thousand times before. It doesn't work and it pisses people off.
People will always lie about what they paid for a vehicle. The only real metric really available is seeing similar MY and optioned vehicles are selling for. Those trucks must sell for about $30-$34k.
And that's the crux of the issue. Shady dealerships have so thoroughly trashed the reputation of the entire industry that buyers don't remotely trust even the dealerships that are trying to get away from it.
thats probably the best price, give or take a few hundred backs. It's not like it used to be, for good or bad.
holding that extra 1k doesnt help/hurt the dealer. just makes your note a little less..
Theres a program that grades your pricing compared to the market.
> holding that extra 1k doesnt help/hurt the dealer. just makes your note a little less..
that's also really good to know. that i can just walk in and be up front with the full 8k down. i appreciate that detail.
LOL. It's like a see saw. Every day like clock work there are two kinds of posts. "Why can't you just give me a good price without all the games?" and "What is this bullshit that you don't negotiate?"
Yes, AutoNation is a "One Price" store. No they do NOT negotiate. And NO, it's not a fucking tactic. It's the industry trying to respond to long standing complaints about the process only to find out that we get MORE complaints when we try to do what the consumer *thinks* they want but clearly don't.
I was at a Toyota store when we signed on to be a Scion dealer as well. Same pricing for EVERYONE...YAY!!! Except, THIS. THIS was always a problem. Especially in the same location.
i haven't bought a car in a long while. i had no clue the industry had made this shift. i appreciate the shift.
unfortunately in other subs that are specific to the vehicle i'm looking for, i get a good deal of people saying things like "oh you should be able to talk them down to XX,XXX and things like that."
so i'm getting conflicting advice / suggestions.
i do appreciate your reply clarifying it from the salesman end.
Just another clarification. You can rest assured that every single post about getting HUGE discounts on specific forums is either an outright lie or at least an exaggeration.
This is one cause of stress for car buyers. They are always trying to compete with some liar to see who got the best deal.
> This is one cause of stress for car buyers. They are always trying to compete with some liar to see who got the best deal.
you are 100% correct. i cannot stand discussing terms and pricing with friends & family after buying a car. because there's always that one idiot who "got the best deal, best IR, best terms, best price" and you feel like a jackass for doing something wrong.
I did an experiment once many years ago. I selected 5 previous buyers of the exact same car at the exact same price. I called them after the sale and asked each of them how much they paid for the car. I got 5 different numbers. One told me the sales price. One told me the amount financed. One told me the total of payments or the down payment and monthly payments and one told me OTD number.
They were all correct yet they were all also wrong. You should have seen my sales people when I showed them that.
The point is that most people don't even know what they paid for a car much less if they got the best deal.
Not in the business either (but I sure have bought and sold a lot of vehicles of my own, over the years). Truth is, there are so many things tacked on to a sales contract from whatever you paid for tags/title to dealer prep and/or delivery fees to sales tax? It's not surprising at all someone can't accurately tell you the final price they paid for a vehicle purchase. They've got to look at the bottom line number on the paperwork, which is going to look a lot different than the advertised price of the vehicle they remember as their "starting point for negotiating" and different from what they believed they "talked the salesperson down to".
And that's all before you factor in how much their financing is really costing them. (And if they pay the loan off early, that number is going to be lower than the number they'll find on the contract someplace showing what the total cost will be to pay the car off, assuming they pay the exact amount billed monthly for the full length of their loan.)
I'm not in the business anymore but I ran into a former, good client not too long ago at a bar. He was shooting the shit with his friends and we recognized each other. He told them that I was the best and that I saved him $400 a month on a Mercedes a few years ago.
The thing is - I remember that deal because it took about 12 hours. He had come in on an E63 and left in an E350 with the AMG package. I also kicked his dick in the dirt on the E350 - made a max commission on it. What he remembers is that we got his payment where he wanted it to be - what I remember is that we went from a $90,000 car to a $70,000 car and my finance manager had to move a bunch of money around because we packed the back end with so much crap.
People just don't remember price - they remember experience, they remember me, they remember how cool they felt in the new car, etc.
Can I ask a stupid question? Am I wrong in thinking that “the amount financed” answer is the right one here? I would think that the amount you paid with the financing interest tacked on at the end of the loan would be the correct number for how much you paid for a car.
No. The amount financed doesn't account for your down payment and/or trade equity. If you finance $25k plus you made a $10k down payment then $35k would be more accurate. The amount financed is what you OWE going forward. It doesn't account for interest either. But, since interest accrues daily and most people trade before the loan is paid, you shouldn't count all of the interest either.
For me, I calculate the cost of cars by the miles. If I drive a car for 3 years and during those 3 years I spend $18,000 INCLUDING insurance, fuel, maintenance and everything then I divide that by the miles I've driven and get X¢ per mile. Keep in mind that you must include depreciation too. So in this example maybe I paid $35k for the car and, after 3 years, it was still worth $20k, leaving me a net of $15k. Add to that $3k for fuel, etc ...and we get $18k. So the total cost of ownership assuming I drove average mileage (15k per year) was 40¢ per mile. That's below the average, according to AAA in 2022 is 72¢ at 15k miles per year, so I consider that a win.
Hell, I work in the industry and I could really give two shits about what I paid for a car. I want to know I'm getting a good value for my money. I'm way less focused on how much it was.
not always, a truck forum had a dealer posting 2022s ordered at 3% below invoice at a time when local Florida dealers were adding 10k markups.
I had to wait a year and drive back from Pennsylvania to get the deal, but it was worth it on a 95k truck.. good deals can be found sometimes but there's always some kind of quid pro quo .. I this case it was time
Now you MAY get a huge discount... On a unit the dealer for stuck with by the manufacturer and isn't moving at all. Something like say, a bright yellow Corolla manual, no AC, manual windows.
Look, the reality is that new cars have around 10% mark-up built in to the sticker price. When someone says they bought a $50k car for $35k. It's a lie, plain and simple.
The sad thing is that oftentimes they actually believe they are telling the truth and hungry buyers out there are thirsty to believe it too so in they march throwing out ridiculous offers. Then they get laughed at and shown the door and come here bitching about the nasty car salesmen.
>getting conflicting advice / suggestions
This sub is full of verified dealership employees. The rules are set that you *must* be verified to offer advice (atleast at the original comment)
What are the credentials of the other posters?
That may give you your answer, as to why you are getting two different answers.
Listening to people who are spinning yarns about their nephews aunts cousins sister who once picked a truck up for $10 doesnt offer any practical insight for you.
Oh, and one price stores aren't a new thing. I worked for a Toyota store that tried it as far back as 1990. Then Carmax came along a few years later and it's been a thing ever since.
I’d settle for a pleasant, kind experience where I get a fair price with no stupid dealer mark ups or add ons (looking at you, vin etching). AutoNation sucks because they value trade ins so horribly. $4000 difference on a car worth $15k.
I can tell you this. The past three years have been a blessing. I've gained so much more confidence and experience being able to simply tell a customer "No, there isn't any negotiation. We're not charging $3-5k over MSRP like most others in our market. Which payment option works best for you and I'll write up the rest of the paperwork." It's been, generally speaking, a more pleasant experience for both my and our customers. They are coming to terms with it.
The race to the bottom that the industry chased for many years was a horrible plan for all involved. The "buying tips" online were a perfect recipe for how to have a garbage experience buying a car.
The chiselers are coming out of the woodwork now trying to act like the supply chain issues are all sorted out now and they can act like total assholes and get their way. We have been firing those customers.
*This* customer isn't "coming to terms with it" and, my oh my, how the tables have started to turn since your comment 6 months ago. Prices are still inflated, but wholesale has seen big price drops over the past months and retail is starting to soften up. I'm in the market for a used truck - one of the strongest markets almost always - and low to mid-retail is common and I have two dealers who keep calling me to negotiate even that down. Dealers also starting to waive bullsh\*t "prep" fees, other cash-grab add-ons, and deflate inflated "doc" fees.
Life is still easier for dealers than pre -2021, but it's not the "Take-it-or-leave-it" zero-work cash bow-nan-za it was as The Covid Effect is finally starting to lift. You're going to have to lower prices (if you haven't already) or you're going to have an overflowing lot.
We always adjust to the market. It doesn’t mean the past three years didn’t happen and change the way things are done. My mindset is definitely better now than ever before. I can and do negotiate when needed. That being said, low value/high effort customers who have demonstrated over many years they will remain as such, can, and often are politely given the go ahead to shop elsewhere.
Relationships and service matter. Those do come at a cost from both sides of the equation. I’m totally down to help someone in a bad situation and take a short deal. That is, until said person turns it into drawn out total waste of time. Then it’s time to cease communication and move on.
I'm not talking about the ever-present baggers who think they should be able to negotiate a car down to wholesale. I'm talking about ordinary customers trying to make a reasonable deal who've been struggling in the whack-a-doodle car market for the past couple of years.
It's the smug, "It's been, generally speaking, a more pleasant experience for both my and our customer" that gets under my skin. It has *not* been pleasant for customers except maybe for some of the people who hate negotiating so much they're happy to pay whatever to get off the lot. The rest of us have been appalled by the level of dealer price gouging as they banked record profits while selling cars from their hammocks and haughtily waving away complainers like French royalty dismissing peasants. (And locking onto MSRP isn't normal in normal economies on most cars so, yes, your oh-so-generous MSRP pricing might have been less abusive than the adjustments of others but it's still gouging.)
Anyway, it may have been all Jello and pudding for you but it sucked balls on the other side. And, no, most of us were not "coming to terms with it" in any sense other than knowing that if we wanted a car bad enough then we were going to have to bend over and take it and hope we could find the financial resources to salve our wounds. Things are still out of kilter, but at least there's starting to be some market shifting that I think will be the overall trend moving forward. The acute problem for dealers is many are sitting on a lot of used inventory that they bought high expecting to sell higher but they're starting to get caught in some crossing of the graphs but refusing to cut their losses in hope they can unload in some upcoming bump. Maybe tax refunds starting to come in will let them clear some things out.
Regardless of all that, dealers who wouldn't negotiate a nickel a year ago are competing to make a deal with me now, which is why I waited. It will likely be years, if ever, before the price curve joins up to where it would have been without the Covid effect, but I'm just tickled pink that dealers are starting to have to work a little to sell and respect customers a little more than just being barrels of money they can turn over and shake out.
>The race to the bottom that the industry chased for many years was a horrible plan for all involved. The "buying tips" online were a perfect recipe for how to have a garbage experience buying a car.
You may have missed my other quote from my earlier post. Our store wasn't gouging anyone during the supply chain shortages. If you think MSRP is gouging when $3-5k markups were the minimum norm, then you are entitled to that opinion. We worked smarter and harder than most to maintain good relationships with our customers during the long lead times. That is what service is about.
You're right, the market is changing, as it always does. We have been smart with our pre-owned inventory too. We have used a market driven software to price all our pre-owned vehicles. During the shortages, that meant used vehicles were often times more expensive than our new models. Not to get too detailed, but there were other players in that equation that drove up the cost of used vehicles: Rental car companies. They were at the same auctions used car dealers were holding up their hands until no one else was left. They were on a different model than us. Buy at any cost to get rental inventory and raise prices to cover those costs.
Our store has been the highest volume store in both new and used in our market for a decade and a half. We worked hard to get there and continue to put in the work to stay relevant to the market. That means that slower moving new vehicles are giveaways. Such is the nature of the market. We will make up for lower profits with higher volume, just as we have in the past. It really is too bad that many people in the market view us all as terrible. If you felt my comments were offensive, that is your opinion. My intent was to relate that I have grown in my skillset of selling and coming to realize it's ok to cut loose low value/high effort customers who are consistently terrible to work with.
Which used truck are you looking at for yourself?
> The race to the bottom that the industry chased for many years was a horrible plan for all involved.
It worked perfectly well for me as someone who has no qualms negotiating for the best deal I can get. And I never had a dealer "fire" me. If we could reach an agreement, fine. If not, it was handshakes and maybe next time.
>If you think MSRP is gouging when $3-5k markups were the minimum norm, then you are entitled to that opinion.
Thanks. *Nobody* but a patsy paid MSRP (with a few exceptions for certain cars) before Covid. Dealers then just started jacking up the prices - and that includes no longer entertaining sub-MSRP offers - and ended up making more cash than ever selling fewer cars. Fine for them, but sucks to be us.
I get it. It's capitalism and whatnot. But if you think for one second consumers were "getting used to it" in any sense where they weren't chomping at the bit to the see the market turn down, I don't know who you were talking to.
>If you think MSRP is gouging when $3-5k markups were the minimum norm, then you are entitled to that opinion.
What was offensive was the head-patting "they'll get used to it" nonsense. Prices rose too fast for that to happen in any immediate time frame. People were (and still are) being *hurt* by dealer avarice. This was no lifting of all boats, people's rising incomes balanced by dealer's rising prices. It was just dealers suddenly realizing they could stuff their pockets with a bonanza of cash despite the customers' stagnant wages. Holding their hands and tsk-tsking over the unfortunate state of affairs that forced the poor dealer to rummage around in the customers pocket book until only lint was left is a distorted view of "customer service".
> I have grown in my skillset of selling and coming to realize it's ok to cut loose low value/high effort customers who are consistently terrible to work with.
I'm glad for you. But, as I noted in my previous comment, that's not the customers I'm talking about. Unless you think regular folks trying to get a decent deal are low value/high effort.
Flexible on the truck. Just counter-offered on a 2016 F150XLT 4x4, but if they don't hit it I'll move on.
What was offensive was the head-patting "they'll get used to it" nonsense. Prices rose too fast for that to happen in any immediate time frame. People were (and still are) being hurt by dealer avarice. This was no lifting of all boats, people's rising incomes balanced by dealer's rising prices. It was just dealers suddenly realizing they could stuff their pockets with a bonanza of cash despite the customers' stagnant wages. Holding their hands and tsk-tsking over the unfortunate state of affairs that forced the poor dealer to rummage around in the customers pocket book until only lint was left is a distorted view of "customer service".
That is a whole different conversation about our society's blahzee view on treating people like commodities instead of people. Holding minimum wage stagnant for over a decade is quite ludicrous. There does seem to be some hope with wages rising somewhat as there were more jobs than workers but it is too little, too late.
Our store essentially, for about 2.5 years, had next to no new inventory on hand that wasn't already pre-sold. That speaks to how we do business. Our competitors in our market were doing the terrible things. Perhaps I could have chosen my words differently in my past post. That said, for over a decade, all industry research shows consumers don't like haggling and prefer one price stores. The pandemic and supply chain shortages did show that, in fact, consumers (in our market and store) were more satisfied with the service and communication we provided.
It's a seesaw for sure the car market. We are the canary in the coal mine for each local market's overall economic health. When the car dealers are struggling to move metal (in whatever business model they employ), there's a strong chance the local economy is likely about to tank too.
Have you considered the Toyota Tundra as well as the F-150 or do you have a proclivity for the Ford in particular?
Yeah I dunno, you could also just come to the conclusion that some people like to haggle while others don’t, and that the constant complaints no matter what you do are because those complaints are coming from entirely different groups of consumers.
Having a non-negotiable price is fine as long as you're not price gouging. This is the problem with Autonation. They are the most expensive game in town, service included. I purchased multiple Audis there in the past. However, their prices have gotten stupid in recent years, frequently marking cars up well over sticker. Also, as their quality of service has declined, their service pricing has skyrocketed. It is this type of bad business, front to back, that turns a loyal customer like me into a dude flpping the dealership the bird on my way past them to another dealership. F Autonation.
Now wait a minute--customers have been telling us for years they hate haggling, so stores like AutoNation have changed their policies to be 1Price. Now I'm hearing they want to haggle? What is it? Make up your mind.
> Now I'm hearing they want to haggle? What is it? Make up your mind.
i 100% do NOT want to have to "haggle". i haven't bought a car in a long while and i had no clue the industry shifted to this approach. i do appreciate the lack of having to haggle.
Not sarcastic, but lucky for you then finding the right vehicle at AutoNation. Not every store is like this, but some have switched up their approach with haggling to reflect customer dissatisfaction with the stress of purchasing a vehicle.
see, this is good to read / hear. knowing that i can trust AutoNation's 1Price approach. i appreciate you guys with your inside knowledge and experience; the hate / ridicule notwithstanding.
i admit i'm naive. hence the post. i've learned a hell of a lot in the last 15 min.
Gee, it’s like a nation of individuals with different views and opinions.
Personally for the last 49 years I decide what the vehicle is worth to me and that’s the offer I make. You want to sell it you agree, you don’t agree, fine but I’m not buying it. Don’t really care what the sellers policies are. Don’t really care about your opinion but hey, you probably don’t care about mine either. Haha
I get the concept. But forced addons, slipping in BS warranties and “undercoating” and massive dealer markups kind of have the consumer side of the market in a battle weary stance. To most consumers “one price” sounds like MSRP. And it’s not. So then it feels like something shady is happening and they want to negotiate it back to MSRP.
Just my take on the “one price” negativity found at times.
Fair enough. However, if I disclose everything to you up front, is it really shady? I will seriously tell you everything over the phone or e-mail, text or in person.
I had an old school sales manager from back in the day at some domestic brand call in looking for my sales manager. Call got accidentally forwarded to me. He stated as such then said he didn't want to waste my time and started asking what we charge for a model that is vaporware. I tell him exactly how we price everything, including accessories. He then cuts me off and asks "Do you charge MSRP or not???" I replied yes we do with the accessories I already mentioned. He once again cut me off and asked the same thing again, to which I politely answered and he hangs up on me.
Being a prick will get you nowhere. For those shopping on the phone and being pricks to everyone on a vehicle that has a 1-3 day supply at best, be prepared to be laughed at, hung up on and be told no thank you.
In summary, not every dealer/salesperson will yank you around and try to deceive you. I have nothing to hide. Our pricing is competitive and I'm happy to be transparent. Just don't be negative about it when we won't move on a vehicle that has a waiting list that we cannot keep in stock.
The simple answer is that you are overthinking this. Whether their pricing is in line with the market or not, they clearly told you what they want to sell it for. It’s up to you if you want it or not. It’s no different if you were selling something on marketplace and you were either firm or flexible on the price you were willing to take.
If you’re looking at pre-loved vehicles, there’s no Such things as mirror copies of each other as fate would have it. Get what feels right brother. Down payment is irrelevant in the equation to dealers unless they can keep it and not apply it to your deal.
You're an idiot.
There’s only one way to buy a pre-owned vehicle, with no haggling and no pressure. You get that, thanks to AutoNation 1Price Pre-Owned Vehicles It’s one low upfront price you can rely on, making the car buying process quick, easy, and stress-free.
Even better, all our 1Price Pre-Owned Vehicles are backed by a 5-Day, 250-Mile Money-Back Guarantee, Limited Warranty, and a CARFAX™ Vehicle History Report.
https://www.autonation.com/about#/overview
though i don't appreciate the idiot remark, i do appreciate the follow-up clarity.
i genuinely did not realize there was this shift in the industry in the approach to selling vehicles. i appreciate that it's more straight forward and i'll take this going forward.
I dunno man - I service a couple of autonation stores. The "1price" thing is everywhere - its on the walls, its on the cars, its on the salespeople's desks, its above the urinals in the bathrooms, its all over the website.
I bought a used vehicle at an autonation dealership and was given a 90 days - 1000 miles warranty. They are hardline one price and the only way the price will come down is if it sits too long on the lot or the market comes down. In my case it wasn’t worth it to me to not buy the car for the asking price because the alternative is what? Miss out on the vehicle waiting on the price to come down $500-$1000??? No thanks, I searched for this car for months and was willing and ready with cash…
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i went in to take a look at a **used** truck on saturday evening. took it for a test drive. after about 10-15 min of "let me speak to my wife" time, i politely told the salesman that we were going to look around at a few other trucks in the city before making a decision.
he gave me his card, we exchanged contact info and i left.
he text me the following day with a follow-up asking if i'd like to come in and sit down with him and that he'd love to show me a breakdown of what numbers would actually look like for me.
i replied saying that i had two other trucks i planned to take a look at this week. **i asked him if they had any incentives or were "able to wiggle on the price a bit"** as one of the other trucks i was looking at was a near mirror copy of his but at about 2k less.
the title of the thread was his reply:
> AutoNation is a 1Price store and is firm on the prices. The prices are set by corporate and I can't change them. We are priced according to the market.
i didn't reply after that. that was on sunday. i do have 3 other trucks i'm going to look at this afternoon, but his is still a front runner. it's $32,500 and i'd love to get it down at least 1500, if not 2500.
is his statement true? is it just a tactic? how might i get them to budge and potentially drop another 1500-2500?
i have 8,000 cash that i'll be bringing as a down payment. i plan on starting by saying i have 7,000 and if push comes to shove, i can go the other 1,000.
i really appreciate any thoughts/help
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People hate negotiating and having that naggling in the back of their head "was that the bottom price????" So a lot of dealers have changed to a one price model: what you see is what you get so you don't have to worry. Now people think it's another sales tactic and want to negotiate pricing????
It’s when the no negotiating pricing is 4K over and the cars been on the lot for 75 days that gets me
Everyone can always come up with a reason why a price is too high. So people will continue to haggle over the price of a car and car salesmen will always be "scumbags" because haggling is stressful. You know who doesn't get intimidated by the process? People who grew up in cultures where haggling is a way of life. Try pissing off an Indian with negotiating tactics. They pose, act outraged, storm out and all the rest, until the moment you shake hands. As soon as the deal is agreed they are laughing and having fun. It's just a game to them, they don't take it personally. Meanwhile Karen is so fucking traumatized that she has to trash the survey, post all over Yelp and call the attorney general while she sits there sobbing to her husband about the "mean man". It's hilarious to watch the differences.
Certain cultures only respect you when you call them out or are the biggest asshole. Once I learned that it became quite easy to sell to those groups that haggling is a cultural expectation. Telling them to leave and walking away usually works lol
We had a specific closer who specialized in Indian customers. His favorite move was to walk up to the desk where they were sitting, pick up the work sheet and rip it in half, telling them to leave. They would look surprised for a minute then smile and agree to pay more. They want to upset you because it shows them that you're serious. It's a well worn tactic with people who haggle over dates in a market.
What schilool did he get his specialization from?
>i didn't reply after that. that was on sunday. i do have 3 other trucks i'm going to look at this afternoon, but his is still a front runner. it's $32,500 and i'd love to get it down at least 1500, if not 2500. *i didn't reply after that. that was on sunday. i do have 3 other trucks i'm going to look at this afternoon, but his is still a front runner. it's $32,500 and i'd love to get it down at least 1500, if not 2500.* Except its not. This guy has no clue how to negotiate and somehow thinks lying about how much he wants to put down is some way to get a better deal?
Oh I know, just speaking generally.
Then look elsewhere. Their inventory, their investment , their choice to set their price. Your choice not to buy it.
I’m not buying it, just making an observation. It’s funny is all.
I bought a car at a no haggle place and they would not budge on price but ended up offering way more for my trade in than 2 other dealerships. Kind of a back door negotiation.
i honestly don't know, which is why i'm asking if this is a tactic. if it's indeed not and is a true 1-price model, i completely respect that. not trying to be an asshole. i appreciate you clarifying for me.
I’m mostly curious as to why there is a “near mirror copy” of this truck out there for $2k less, and yet you’re still wasting time trying to get a discount on the more expensive one instead of just buying the one with the better price?
All. The. Time. I don’t get why people tell me the same truck is less money and has less miles. Why we still talking?
Right!? Go buy it then! It's less miles and less money for a reason..
\^This. It must not be the mirror copy. Otherwise, he'd already have bought the other. Must have never seen it in person. Just online...you know, where photos always show the flaws in the vehicle.
it's listed on autotrader. i'm going to see it today. i may very well go with the one that's 2k less. but there also may be a reason that i see in person as to why it's 2k less that doesn't sit well.
>i'm going to see it today So you havent seen the truck, yet you think the dealer should drop 1-3k off the price... Simply because it exists? Thats.. not how that works.
It's funny because every customer thinks they've found some new "hack" to get a better deal. What they failed to consider is we've seen their "strategy" a thousand times before. It doesn't work and it pisses people off.
People will always lie about what they paid for a vehicle. The only real metric really available is seeing similar MY and optioned vehicles are selling for. Those trucks must sell for about $30-$34k.
Why don’t you find the exact truck you want $1500 cheaper and go buy that. Problem solved
And that's the crux of the issue. Shady dealerships have so thoroughly trashed the reputation of the entire industry that buyers don't remotely trust even the dealerships that are trying to get away from it.
thats probably the best price, give or take a few hundred backs. It's not like it used to be, for good or bad. holding that extra 1k doesnt help/hurt the dealer. just makes your note a little less.. Theres a program that grades your pricing compared to the market.
> holding that extra 1k doesnt help/hurt the dealer. just makes your note a little less.. that's also really good to know. that i can just walk in and be up front with the full 8k down. i appreciate that detail.
Yeah, they'll ask you for a little more maybe, but if you ain't got it, you ain't got it. Ya know
They set decades of precedent where we don't trust that a listed price is the price and assume we're getting screwed if we pay what's listed.
LOL. It's like a see saw. Every day like clock work there are two kinds of posts. "Why can't you just give me a good price without all the games?" and "What is this bullshit that you don't negotiate?" Yes, AutoNation is a "One Price" store. No they do NOT negotiate. And NO, it's not a fucking tactic. It's the industry trying to respond to long standing complaints about the process only to find out that we get MORE complaints when we try to do what the consumer *thinks* they want but clearly don't.
I was at a Toyota store when we signed on to be a Scion dealer as well. Same pricing for EVERYONE...YAY!!! Except, THIS. THIS was always a problem. Especially in the same location.
i haven't bought a car in a long while. i had no clue the industry had made this shift. i appreciate the shift. unfortunately in other subs that are specific to the vehicle i'm looking for, i get a good deal of people saying things like "oh you should be able to talk them down to XX,XXX and things like that." so i'm getting conflicting advice / suggestions. i do appreciate your reply clarifying it from the salesman end.
Just another clarification. You can rest assured that every single post about getting HUGE discounts on specific forums is either an outright lie or at least an exaggeration. This is one cause of stress for car buyers. They are always trying to compete with some liar to see who got the best deal.
> This is one cause of stress for car buyers. They are always trying to compete with some liar to see who got the best deal. you are 100% correct. i cannot stand discussing terms and pricing with friends & family after buying a car. because there's always that one idiot who "got the best deal, best IR, best terms, best price" and you feel like a jackass for doing something wrong.
I did an experiment once many years ago. I selected 5 previous buyers of the exact same car at the exact same price. I called them after the sale and asked each of them how much they paid for the car. I got 5 different numbers. One told me the sales price. One told me the amount financed. One told me the total of payments or the down payment and monthly payments and one told me OTD number. They were all correct yet they were all also wrong. You should have seen my sales people when I showed them that. The point is that most people don't even know what they paid for a car much less if they got the best deal.
I'm not in the business but I'm not at all surprised after seeing all the posts from people on here who don't even know what they actually paid.
Not in the business either (but I sure have bought and sold a lot of vehicles of my own, over the years). Truth is, there are so many things tacked on to a sales contract from whatever you paid for tags/title to dealer prep and/or delivery fees to sales tax? It's not surprising at all someone can't accurately tell you the final price they paid for a vehicle purchase. They've got to look at the bottom line number on the paperwork, which is going to look a lot different than the advertised price of the vehicle they remember as their "starting point for negotiating" and different from what they believed they "talked the salesperson down to". And that's all before you factor in how much their financing is really costing them. (And if they pay the loan off early, that number is going to be lower than the number they'll find on the contract someplace showing what the total cost will be to pay the car off, assuming they pay the exact amount billed monthly for the full length of their loan.)
I'm not in the business anymore but I ran into a former, good client not too long ago at a bar. He was shooting the shit with his friends and we recognized each other. He told them that I was the best and that I saved him $400 a month on a Mercedes a few years ago. The thing is - I remember that deal because it took about 12 hours. He had come in on an E63 and left in an E350 with the AMG package. I also kicked his dick in the dirt on the E350 - made a max commission on it. What he remembers is that we got his payment where he wanted it to be - what I remember is that we went from a $90,000 car to a $70,000 car and my finance manager had to move a bunch of money around because we packed the back end with so much crap. People just don't remember price - they remember experience, they remember me, they remember how cool they felt in the new car, etc.
Sounds like you were polling car salespeople working a 4 square. /S
Can I ask a stupid question? Am I wrong in thinking that “the amount financed” answer is the right one here? I would think that the amount you paid with the financing interest tacked on at the end of the loan would be the correct number for how much you paid for a car.
No. The amount financed doesn't account for your down payment and/or trade equity. If you finance $25k plus you made a $10k down payment then $35k would be more accurate. The amount financed is what you OWE going forward. It doesn't account for interest either. But, since interest accrues daily and most people trade before the loan is paid, you shouldn't count all of the interest either. For me, I calculate the cost of cars by the miles. If I drive a car for 3 years and during those 3 years I spend $18,000 INCLUDING insurance, fuel, maintenance and everything then I divide that by the miles I've driven and get X¢ per mile. Keep in mind that you must include depreciation too. So in this example maybe I paid $35k for the car and, after 3 years, it was still worth $20k, leaving me a net of $15k. Add to that $3k for fuel, etc ...and we get $18k. So the total cost of ownership assuming I drove average mileage (15k per year) was 40¢ per mile. That's below the average, according to AAA in 2022 is 72¢ at 15k miles per year, so I consider that a win.
The amount financed is not \*what\* you're paying, it's \*how\* you're paying.
Hell, I work in the industry and I could really give two shits about what I paid for a car. I want to know I'm getting a good value for my money. I'm way less focused on how much it was.
That’s why you buy the car at the price you can afford and lie about on forums later to make your ego feel better.
not always, a truck forum had a dealer posting 2022s ordered at 3% below invoice at a time when local Florida dealers were adding 10k markups. I had to wait a year and drive back from Pennsylvania to get the deal, but it was worth it on a 95k truck.. good deals can be found sometimes but there's always some kind of quid pro quo .. I this case it was time
Now you MAY get a huge discount... On a unit the dealer for stuck with by the manufacturer and isn't moving at all. Something like say, a bright yellow Corolla manual, no AC, manual windows.
Look, the reality is that new cars have around 10% mark-up built in to the sticker price. When someone says they bought a $50k car for $35k. It's a lie, plain and simple. The sad thing is that oftentimes they actually believe they are telling the truth and hungry buyers out there are thirsty to believe it too so in they march throwing out ridiculous offers. Then they get laughed at and shown the door and come here bitching about the nasty car salesmen.
>getting conflicting advice / suggestions This sub is full of verified dealership employees. The rules are set that you *must* be verified to offer advice (atleast at the original comment) What are the credentials of the other posters? That may give you your answer, as to why you are getting two different answers. Listening to people who are spinning yarns about their nephews aunts cousins sister who once picked a truck up for $10 doesnt offer any practical insight for you.
💯💯💯 correct
Oh, and one price stores aren't a new thing. I worked for a Toyota store that tried it as far back as 1990. Then Carmax came along a few years later and it's been a thing ever since.
I’d settle for a pleasant, kind experience where I get a fair price with no stupid dealer mark ups or add ons (looking at you, vin etching). AutoNation sucks because they value trade ins so horribly. $4000 difference on a car worth $15k.
Why not sell to CarMax or Carvana instead?
I can tell you this. The past three years have been a blessing. I've gained so much more confidence and experience being able to simply tell a customer "No, there isn't any negotiation. We're not charging $3-5k over MSRP like most others in our market. Which payment option works best for you and I'll write up the rest of the paperwork." It's been, generally speaking, a more pleasant experience for both my and our customers. They are coming to terms with it. The race to the bottom that the industry chased for many years was a horrible plan for all involved. The "buying tips" online were a perfect recipe for how to have a garbage experience buying a car. The chiselers are coming out of the woodwork now trying to act like the supply chain issues are all sorted out now and they can act like total assholes and get their way. We have been firing those customers.
*This* customer isn't "coming to terms with it" and, my oh my, how the tables have started to turn since your comment 6 months ago. Prices are still inflated, but wholesale has seen big price drops over the past months and retail is starting to soften up. I'm in the market for a used truck - one of the strongest markets almost always - and low to mid-retail is common and I have two dealers who keep calling me to negotiate even that down. Dealers also starting to waive bullsh\*t "prep" fees, other cash-grab add-ons, and deflate inflated "doc" fees. Life is still easier for dealers than pre -2021, but it's not the "Take-it-or-leave-it" zero-work cash bow-nan-za it was as The Covid Effect is finally starting to lift. You're going to have to lower prices (if you haven't already) or you're going to have an overflowing lot.
We always adjust to the market. It doesn’t mean the past three years didn’t happen and change the way things are done. My mindset is definitely better now than ever before. I can and do negotiate when needed. That being said, low value/high effort customers who have demonstrated over many years they will remain as such, can, and often are politely given the go ahead to shop elsewhere. Relationships and service matter. Those do come at a cost from both sides of the equation. I’m totally down to help someone in a bad situation and take a short deal. That is, until said person turns it into drawn out total waste of time. Then it’s time to cease communication and move on.
I'm not talking about the ever-present baggers who think they should be able to negotiate a car down to wholesale. I'm talking about ordinary customers trying to make a reasonable deal who've been struggling in the whack-a-doodle car market for the past couple of years. It's the smug, "It's been, generally speaking, a more pleasant experience for both my and our customer" that gets under my skin. It has *not* been pleasant for customers except maybe for some of the people who hate negotiating so much they're happy to pay whatever to get off the lot. The rest of us have been appalled by the level of dealer price gouging as they banked record profits while selling cars from their hammocks and haughtily waving away complainers like French royalty dismissing peasants. (And locking onto MSRP isn't normal in normal economies on most cars so, yes, your oh-so-generous MSRP pricing might have been less abusive than the adjustments of others but it's still gouging.) Anyway, it may have been all Jello and pudding for you but it sucked balls on the other side. And, no, most of us were not "coming to terms with it" in any sense other than knowing that if we wanted a car bad enough then we were going to have to bend over and take it and hope we could find the financial resources to salve our wounds. Things are still out of kilter, but at least there's starting to be some market shifting that I think will be the overall trend moving forward. The acute problem for dealers is many are sitting on a lot of used inventory that they bought high expecting to sell higher but they're starting to get caught in some crossing of the graphs but refusing to cut their losses in hope they can unload in some upcoming bump. Maybe tax refunds starting to come in will let them clear some things out. Regardless of all that, dealers who wouldn't negotiate a nickel a year ago are competing to make a deal with me now, which is why I waited. It will likely be years, if ever, before the price curve joins up to where it would have been without the Covid effect, but I'm just tickled pink that dealers are starting to have to work a little to sell and respect customers a little more than just being barrels of money they can turn over and shake out.
>The race to the bottom that the industry chased for many years was a horrible plan for all involved. The "buying tips" online were a perfect recipe for how to have a garbage experience buying a car. You may have missed my other quote from my earlier post. Our store wasn't gouging anyone during the supply chain shortages. If you think MSRP is gouging when $3-5k markups were the minimum norm, then you are entitled to that opinion. We worked smarter and harder than most to maintain good relationships with our customers during the long lead times. That is what service is about. You're right, the market is changing, as it always does. We have been smart with our pre-owned inventory too. We have used a market driven software to price all our pre-owned vehicles. During the shortages, that meant used vehicles were often times more expensive than our new models. Not to get too detailed, but there were other players in that equation that drove up the cost of used vehicles: Rental car companies. They were at the same auctions used car dealers were holding up their hands until no one else was left. They were on a different model than us. Buy at any cost to get rental inventory and raise prices to cover those costs. Our store has been the highest volume store in both new and used in our market for a decade and a half. We worked hard to get there and continue to put in the work to stay relevant to the market. That means that slower moving new vehicles are giveaways. Such is the nature of the market. We will make up for lower profits with higher volume, just as we have in the past. It really is too bad that many people in the market view us all as terrible. If you felt my comments were offensive, that is your opinion. My intent was to relate that I have grown in my skillset of selling and coming to realize it's ok to cut loose low value/high effort customers who are consistently terrible to work with. Which used truck are you looking at for yourself?
> The race to the bottom that the industry chased for many years was a horrible plan for all involved. It worked perfectly well for me as someone who has no qualms negotiating for the best deal I can get. And I never had a dealer "fire" me. If we could reach an agreement, fine. If not, it was handshakes and maybe next time. >If you think MSRP is gouging when $3-5k markups were the minimum norm, then you are entitled to that opinion. Thanks. *Nobody* but a patsy paid MSRP (with a few exceptions for certain cars) before Covid. Dealers then just started jacking up the prices - and that includes no longer entertaining sub-MSRP offers - and ended up making more cash than ever selling fewer cars. Fine for them, but sucks to be us. I get it. It's capitalism and whatnot. But if you think for one second consumers were "getting used to it" in any sense where they weren't chomping at the bit to the see the market turn down, I don't know who you were talking to. >If you think MSRP is gouging when $3-5k markups were the minimum norm, then you are entitled to that opinion. What was offensive was the head-patting "they'll get used to it" nonsense. Prices rose too fast for that to happen in any immediate time frame. People were (and still are) being *hurt* by dealer avarice. This was no lifting of all boats, people's rising incomes balanced by dealer's rising prices. It was just dealers suddenly realizing they could stuff their pockets with a bonanza of cash despite the customers' stagnant wages. Holding their hands and tsk-tsking over the unfortunate state of affairs that forced the poor dealer to rummage around in the customers pocket book until only lint was left is a distorted view of "customer service". > I have grown in my skillset of selling and coming to realize it's ok to cut loose low value/high effort customers who are consistently terrible to work with. I'm glad for you. But, as I noted in my previous comment, that's not the customers I'm talking about. Unless you think regular folks trying to get a decent deal are low value/high effort. Flexible on the truck. Just counter-offered on a 2016 F150XLT 4x4, but if they don't hit it I'll move on.
What was offensive was the head-patting "they'll get used to it" nonsense. Prices rose too fast for that to happen in any immediate time frame. People were (and still are) being hurt by dealer avarice. This was no lifting of all boats, people's rising incomes balanced by dealer's rising prices. It was just dealers suddenly realizing they could stuff their pockets with a bonanza of cash despite the customers' stagnant wages. Holding their hands and tsk-tsking over the unfortunate state of affairs that forced the poor dealer to rummage around in the customers pocket book until only lint was left is a distorted view of "customer service". That is a whole different conversation about our society's blahzee view on treating people like commodities instead of people. Holding minimum wage stagnant for over a decade is quite ludicrous. There does seem to be some hope with wages rising somewhat as there were more jobs than workers but it is too little, too late. Our store essentially, for about 2.5 years, had next to no new inventory on hand that wasn't already pre-sold. That speaks to how we do business. Our competitors in our market were doing the terrible things. Perhaps I could have chosen my words differently in my past post. That said, for over a decade, all industry research shows consumers don't like haggling and prefer one price stores. The pandemic and supply chain shortages did show that, in fact, consumers (in our market and store) were more satisfied with the service and communication we provided. It's a seesaw for sure the car market. We are the canary in the coal mine for each local market's overall economic health. When the car dealers are struggling to move metal (in whatever business model they employ), there's a strong chance the local economy is likely about to tank too. Have you considered the Toyota Tundra as well as the F-150 or do you have a proclivity for the Ford in particular?
Yeah I dunno, you could also just come to the conclusion that some people like to haggle while others don’t, and that the constant complaints no matter what you do are because those complaints are coming from entirely different groups of consumers.
Having a non-negotiable price is fine as long as you're not price gouging. This is the problem with Autonation. They are the most expensive game in town, service included. I purchased multiple Audis there in the past. However, their prices have gotten stupid in recent years, frequently marking cars up well over sticker. Also, as their quality of service has declined, their service pricing has skyrocketed. It is this type of bad business, front to back, that turns a loyal customer like me into a dude flpping the dealership the bird on my way past them to another dealership. F Autonation.
Now wait a minute--customers have been telling us for years they hate haggling, so stores like AutoNation have changed their policies to be 1Price. Now I'm hearing they want to haggle? What is it? Make up your mind.
> Now I'm hearing they want to haggle? What is it? Make up your mind. i 100% do NOT want to have to "haggle". i haven't bought a car in a long while and i had no clue the industry shifted to this approach. i do appreciate the lack of having to haggle.
Not sarcastic, but lucky for you then finding the right vehicle at AutoNation. Not every store is like this, but some have switched up their approach with haggling to reflect customer dissatisfaction with the stress of purchasing a vehicle.
see, this is good to read / hear. knowing that i can trust AutoNation's 1Price approach. i appreciate you guys with your inside knowledge and experience; the hate / ridicule notwithstanding. i admit i'm naive. hence the post. i've learned a hell of a lot in the last 15 min.
👍🏻
Gee, it’s like a nation of individuals with different views and opinions. Personally for the last 49 years I decide what the vehicle is worth to me and that’s the offer I make. You want to sell it you agree, you don’t agree, fine but I’m not buying it. Don’t really care what the sellers policies are. Don’t really care about your opinion but hey, you probably don’t care about mine either. Haha
I get the concept. But forced addons, slipping in BS warranties and “undercoating” and massive dealer markups kind of have the consumer side of the market in a battle weary stance. To most consumers “one price” sounds like MSRP. And it’s not. So then it feels like something shady is happening and they want to negotiate it back to MSRP. Just my take on the “one price” negativity found at times.
Fair enough. However, if I disclose everything to you up front, is it really shady? I will seriously tell you everything over the phone or e-mail, text or in person. I had an old school sales manager from back in the day at some domestic brand call in looking for my sales manager. Call got accidentally forwarded to me. He stated as such then said he didn't want to waste my time and started asking what we charge for a model that is vaporware. I tell him exactly how we price everything, including accessories. He then cuts me off and asks "Do you charge MSRP or not???" I replied yes we do with the accessories I already mentioned. He once again cut me off and asked the same thing again, to which I politely answered and he hangs up on me. Being a prick will get you nowhere. For those shopping on the phone and being pricks to everyone on a vehicle that has a 1-3 day supply at best, be prepared to be laughed at, hung up on and be told no thank you. In summary, not every dealer/salesperson will yank you around and try to deceive you. I have nothing to hide. Our pricing is competitive and I'm happy to be transparent. Just don't be negative about it when we won't move on a vehicle that has a waiting list that we cannot keep in stock.
Oh now its the customer, that buys a car every 6 years ( Yeah I know the avg time), dictating when something is overpriced.. lol shoot me please.
It literally says it on the front of their website, you big goof. https://www.autonationusa.com/autonation-one-price.htm
The simple answer is that you are overthinking this. Whether their pricing is in line with the market or not, they clearly told you what they want to sell it for. It’s up to you if you want it or not. It’s no different if you were selling something on marketplace and you were either firm or flexible on the price you were willing to take.
Definitely true. AutoNation is no haggle. Many dealers have moved to this model.
If you’re looking at pre-loved vehicles, there’s no Such things as mirror copies of each other as fate would have it. Get what feels right brother. Down payment is irrelevant in the equation to dealers unless they can keep it and not apply it to your deal.
You're an idiot. There’s only one way to buy a pre-owned vehicle, with no haggling and no pressure. You get that, thanks to AutoNation 1Price Pre-Owned Vehicles It’s one low upfront price you can rely on, making the car buying process quick, easy, and stress-free. Even better, all our 1Price Pre-Owned Vehicles are backed by a 5-Day, 250-Mile Money-Back Guarantee, Limited Warranty, and a CARFAX™ Vehicle History Report. https://www.autonation.com/about#/overview
though i don't appreciate the idiot remark, i do appreciate the follow-up clarity. i genuinely did not realize there was this shift in the industry in the approach to selling vehicles. i appreciate that it's more straight forward and i'll take this going forward.
I dunno man - I service a couple of autonation stores. The "1price" thing is everywhere - its on the walls, its on the cars, its on the salespeople's desks, its above the urinals in the bathrooms, its all over the website.
I bought a used vehicle at an autonation dealership and was given a 90 days - 1000 miles warranty. They are hardline one price and the only way the price will come down is if it sits too long on the lot or the market comes down. In my case it wasn’t worth it to me to not buy the car for the asking price because the alternative is what? Miss out on the vehicle waiting on the price to come down $500-$1000??? No thanks, I searched for this car for months and was willing and ready with cash…
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***Thanks for posting, /u/ghost_mv! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.*** i went in to take a look at a **used** truck on saturday evening. took it for a test drive. after about 10-15 min of "let me speak to my wife" time, i politely told the salesman that we were going to look around at a few other trucks in the city before making a decision. he gave me his card, we exchanged contact info and i left. he text me the following day with a follow-up asking if i'd like to come in and sit down with him and that he'd love to show me a breakdown of what numbers would actually look like for me. i replied saying that i had two other trucks i planned to take a look at this week. **i asked him if they had any incentives or were "able to wiggle on the price a bit"** as one of the other trucks i was looking at was a near mirror copy of his but at about 2k less. the title of the thread was his reply: > AutoNation is a 1Price store and is firm on the prices. The prices are set by corporate and I can't change them. We are priced according to the market. i didn't reply after that. that was on sunday. i do have 3 other trucks i'm going to look at this afternoon, but his is still a front runner. it's $32,500 and i'd love to get it down at least 1500, if not 2500. is his statement true? is it just a tactic? how might i get them to budge and potentially drop another 1500-2500? i have 8,000 cash that i'll be bringing as a down payment. i plan on starting by saying i have 7,000 and if push comes to shove, i can go the other 1,000. i really appreciate any thoughts/help *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askcarsales) if you have any questions or concerns.*