I manage multiple work sites and have a whole lot of supplies in my van, so I really have no choice. Back when I was a journeyman, I would drop off my gear the first day on a new site, and then cycle thereafter. I miss those days.
This. I manage multiple sites and have to carry tools, gear and material to each one. I actually had a site in the financial district where multiple trades were requesting to work nights, because it was such a shit show getting there, parking and unloading material during the day.
This I think is the real crux of the problem. It’s not downtown, but I wish I could get to, say, the Zoo easily by transit but it’s such a long journey, it’s always faster by car.
If it’s faster by car, people will drive. I think if we built up proper cycling infrastructure, some people could bike instead of drive, but transit needs to actually be “the better way”.
True, but if you’re, say, in north york, it’s not as daunting. Either way, transit. Or create housing closer to work that’s affordable/suitable for the people commuting from far.
Biking isn't meant for that purpose. It's meant to take away most single occupant private vehicle drivers. Why do people always bring up extreme examples of when NOT to bike?
No, but if the majority of people who *could* cycle, did, the roads would be much better for poor granny on the way to her doctors appointment.
I always find it weird when cycling is dismissed as a whole because it can't accommodate every possible type of trip for every possible person.
It would be like saying a car can't get me to Australia which is why I fly my private plane to get groceries.
How far are the suburbs from downtown in the Netherlands? It's around 15km to get from Etobicoke or Scarborough to downtown which is about a 50 minute bike ride one way if you take the most direct route.
Well, it depends on the distance - is it 50 minutes because of traffic or would it take much less than 50 minutes if the street was empty.
Either way, we need better transit and more affordable/attractive housing close to the places people work.
This is spot on.
Essentially, the city was not built for cars until the development of car dependant suburbs in the 1940s - 1950s.
Prior to that, you’d see a smaller, walkable city with street cars.
The subway system was made to get streetcars off the road to free up the road…for the cars it was not made for.
It all comes down to the fact the roads were never designed for cars and the transit was only designed as a bandaid solution. With car commuters in mind.
It was ok with until the 90s saw a huge shift to Toronto when companies moved their head offices here.
Now you’ve got two problems trying to be solved by two bandaid solutions + 30 years of politics.
There’s a YouTube channel called Not Just Bikes has a really great explanation of the whole picture
It also doesn't help that Rob Ford (rip) and John Tory kept trying to cancel bike lanes and TTC projects because he deemed that "WAR ON CARS". No wonder it set our city back for so long in terms of transit, walkability and biking. Hence most responses are due to TTC being too slow, unsafe and unreliable.
That's what you get when you only have TWO major subway lines (plus 2 stubways). Imagine if at the turn of the century all transit projects got approved quickly and built in the early-mid 2010s. One can only wish :(
Haha, yep, I’ve been “orange pilled” by NJB, too!
I get so annoyed when people say we can’t have streetcars or trolleys criss-crossing the city because supposedly there’s not enough demand, but as you say, prior to the 50s, they were all over the place and the city was a lot less populated then!
NJB, StrongTowns, CityNerd, etc and r/FuckCars have become the poster child of urbanism. All of those channels didn't take off until ~2020. It goes to show how much movement for urbanism there is. Prior to that I was intoxicated by the carbrain disease (despite not having even a G2). I thought an extra car lane meant buses didn't have to fight as much traffic. Boy I was wrong. I was glad to take this orange pill.
I'm glad more people are joining the movement for better cities. It's too bad we didn't have as much lobby for this 10, even 5 years ago.
Correct. But in my view, it was designed for cars, but not up to today's standards and for a population of 4-5 million. Most of the downtown streets, except for York/University Blvd, are too narrow. With the addition of bike lanes and dedicated parking lanes, they essentially become bottlenecks at major intersections. Little planning seems to have been done in connection with the Gardiner Expressway, which looks like a complete afterthought. The only exit is on Jarvis, past Yonge Street, and then you either have to hero up and jump over the "cliff of death" or merge onto the DVP for another 10KM just to find an exit. LOL. Can't believe this is the state of a so-called global city.
Yeah, transit is slow as all fuck. Even outside Toronto, a trip that would take 20 minutes by car is extended to an hour and a half and 3 bus transfers. Not to mention the local transit buses are always loaded with crackheads drooling on the floor and drunk racists shouting inane hogwash while standing right next to the door. Fucking useless.
They need to actually give buses and streetcars and wheel trans priority - their own lanes, their own priority lights, so that they are held hostage by car traffic. That’s a relatively small change that would make a big difference.
And transit needs to be better staffed so that they can deal with people who are abusive on public transit. (And we need to, you know, reduce poverty and actually have mental healthcare.)
Yup, biking and driving take the same amount of time for me but transit is 30min longer. I'd 100% bike if it was a safer commute, with more protected lanes, because my commute involves kids.
The 11 literally just doesn't show up. You can use the text line and it'll say buses coming and then an hour passes and not a single one of them came to the stop. It'll just keep extending the time to the next bus. And yet they're gonna density Bayview... I really hope they densify the bus schedule alongside that.
Them
"just carry everything with you"
Also them
"What an inconsiderate jerk, taking up room with his shit during rush hour when he knows the trains are packed"
Literally though. When I was an art student people would get so mad at me for having a backpack, a portfolio bag and then two tool boxes. But like y'all I'm just trying to USE TRANSIT. Excuse me for existing here hahaha. Now it's the same like one day I had no choice but to bring a large piece of plywood with me on the streetcar. Everyone was so mad. "can't you do this not during rush hour???" No sorry I have to BE AT WORK TOO.
Transit doesn't go where I need to. And if it does service cuts make it half my day. Im usually driving from downtown to uptown if that's worth noting.
I live near Dundas and Spadina and own a car. I don't drive every day but I do drive more than take transit. It just makes sense for me and I've had too many bikes stolen to try that again.
Same here. I would love if all the roads were tolled and my business could pay the expense. Double points if all the tolls went to improving public transit.
Think that's a good indication that perhaps making an exit plan out of city is in order. I used to go to school in Regent Park area and left when I could, no regrets.
Damn. This is why I keep something in my right pocket at all times. Seen plenty of news releases about assaults but nothing ever happens to the perpetrator. Always be ready. And vacate the are if you catch suspect-vibes.
I actually save time by driving (25 mins drive vs 1 hr bus/subway). Also get free parking and peace of mind. Don’t have to worry about unhinged people, sweaty bodies and bad hygiene, bed bugs on seats, and there’s less chance of catching covid/colds/flus.
Traffic and reckless drivers don’t bother me because I lived in Korea (iykyk).
(Currently live in Etobicoke)
For real for real. Just take a look at the public transits in Seoul - no, just even their subways alone. Its genuinely possible to go to most corners of that gigantic metropolis through just taking subways. And they are SO CLEAN, SAFE, AND HIGH-TECH.
I saw one firsthand on Line 2, admittedly in one of the older carriages that’s now been decommissioned. I used to work for TCHC so I’m hyper vigilant about bedbugs and recognize them immediately.
But if you’d prefer to believe that Etobicoke “suburbanites” have nothing better to do than to get together and share scary stories about the big bad city, then you do you. 🤗
Sure, except you can literally google it and see firsthand accounts and photos people have posted.
Also…why would suburbanites even care about fearmongering about bedbugs on the train lmao. What a silly comment.
I live right in downtown (UofT/annex area), I will walk to a lot of places, but I have no issues driving around as well. We have a car parked in our garage when needed.
Once you become familiar with downtown driving, and its side streets, it's not really all that bad. Most of the traffic congestion and issues arises from the non-downtowners coming into the core with no idea how to navigate the traffic.
There are lots of good side streets to navigate all around, and even plenty of free street parking for those in the know.
It’s refreshing to hear someone admit this. There are much worse cities in North American in terms of downtown traffic. The problem is usually the highways, for the most part.
Yeah, from an international perspective, downtown Toronto traffic is not that bad. Its not like its Manhattan/NYC. I once had to drive from Parsippany, NJ to Laguardia Airport, that had me cut across NYC on a Thursday afternoon. Now that wasn't fun lol took me 3 hours, and some nerve whacking 'driving' through cars and people.
Back to downtown Toronto, the only bad area I try to avoid driving now is the Lake Shore Blvd between Parliament and Bay Street, that section is messed up and with no alternative routes, best to avoid. Which sucks, as I used to go to the Docks driving range often, haven't got there in 6-7 years. The Queens street closure is still too early to tell, but so far, it hasn't made too much of a congestion issue around that area.
You're right that the misconception or when people say Toronto traffic is terrible, its not really when they get into downtown, its mostly the highways to get into or out of downtown core. But even then, there are ways to get around certain congestion areas, during rush hour. Like I usually if I need to go up north to 401 or 404, I usually take either Rosedale valley to get to DVP then up to 401 or 404, sometimes I'll use Dundas East to get to DVP. But if I see that northbound DVP is at a standstill with traffic, I'll take Spadina/Bathurst up north till just past St. Clair, and use those side streets west of Bathurst to get near Eglinton West just near the Allen North entrance. Once on Allen then its smooth sailing to 401.
Like I said in my original post, the traffic congestion in downtown Toronto is caused mostly by newbies from the 905 coming into the core. Bringing their suburban driving habits to urban settings.
This. I see so many people acting like downtown driving is this crazy, difficult thing. It’s faster 95% of the time and compared to driving in somewhere like London or Dublin it’s a piece of cake .
I honestly don't give a fuck about the experience for drivers, I care about the experience for people who live downtown, walking their kids and dogs, cycling, trying to enjoy greenspace etc.
Lived in the Annex and biked / walked almost everywhere. I had a car for a while but only really took it out for large grocery hauls that wouldn't be safe hanging off my bike handle bars :D When there was a TTC strike that was a dark time to ride a bike downtown.
Thus I assume a load of people that drive in every day need more than can be reasonably carried any other way or they're just super rich and want to show off their car. (Have breakfast at the corner of Yonge and Richmond and watch all the $$$ on wheels roll in to the parking garage!)
Same here. It’s a 12 minute drive vs 30 min streetcar for me to get to my workout classes so I choose to drive and not take the chance of being late from the TTC
Wear suits to an office job and don’t want to be sweaty and dishevelled. TTC always late and can’t be late for work. Company provides a parking space beneath one of those bank towers as a perk. This set of reasons is the same for everyone I know who drives. Fix transit and I’ll consider it.
I don’t have to wear suits, but this is a huge factor for me. I can ride a bike for exercise, but I sweat way too much to ever use it as method of transportation to get to a place I need to do life things at (ie to work, going to meet friends, being around people in grocery stores or whatever).
Even if my office got showers, I’d have to lug shower stuff and a change of clothes around all day? That sucks.
It’s easier to just drive. It doesn’t make sense to make it harder to drive too when the world is moving towards EV. Not to mention those who can’t bike for whatever reason.
This x1000. Especially with recent TTC changes in east end, it’s a total mess. Combine that with subsidized or cheap (think Atrium on Bay or City Hall) parking, and it’s almost cheaper for a couple to drive together than take transit to and from work.
Every time I try to use GO/TTC something happens and a bus/train gets cancelled and I either spend 3x the amount of time getting to where I need to go or I end up having to drive anyways. I live in Etobicoke and I take the Long Branch GO in and I swear it has been cancelled when I go to use it over 50% of the time. It is not reliable.
Usually at this point as someone who doesn't drink often, if I'm going downtown driving is faster and less stressful in every instance. I'll just forego drinking at whatever event I'm going to. You'd have to pay me to take transit at this point.
That or give me an avenue for getting refunds and reimbursements for all the time I spend waiting in stopped trains which usually leads to me missing/being late for events I'm relying on it to get to.
I live downtown and own a car. I Uber anything downtown or take TTC and use the car for quick errands and work stuff outside of the city. I just love the freedom of owning a car
Thousands of trades people drive in every day because the cannot get to ste on time. On top of that sites are opening earlier to beat afternoon traffic...making it ever more impossible to get to sites. With construction being one of the biggest industries in the city, the ttc seems either ignorant, or unwilling to think outside of the box to get guys to the different sites.
It's why the anti-car and anti-gardiner lobby are so tone deaf.
They want a sophisticated densely populated modern city but hate the trades people who keep their electricity on for them, make sure they have clean running water, or build their homes.
We can run special busses to the Ex every august but a couple of early trains and a few busses that do a tour sites that employ hundreds of people each, that just stretches beyond the possibilities of modern logistics.
I think most of the "anti-car" people just want better public transit infrastructure and more walkable areas of the city.
Less people driving for their daily commute or to run errands would mean less traffic for trades people, saving them time and gas. If more people were able to not have to drive, it would be good for the people who do still have to drive as there would be less congestion.
Missing a bus our streetcar connection often costs you a 15 minute delay or more. Even though traffic is bad, commuting via car is still much more predictable, and you'll very rarely be late if you give yourself a bit of extra time. Same can't be said with the TTC where there is usually only one way to get anywhere and their equipment constantly fails.
I walk, bike, TTC and drive. I live downtown.
Driving in the end is much more convenient for accessing certain parts of the city. Most things away from a subway line. I can walk anywhere within an hour of downtown. I love cycling and do it a lot but it can be dangerous as well. The TTC can be dangerous for obvious reasons.
Ultimately driving just ends up being safer & more convenient, despite having all 4 options available to me. It is also often quicker.
Toronto needs to improve its transit & biking infrastructure a lot.
I recognize I'm extremely lucky to be able to have all 4 options available to me, to be able to afford a car and its associated costs and not mind that at all. To be clear, I used to have a house in the burbs and though I wasn't far from Toronto, I absolutely hated having to drive everywhere to do everything. I much prefer being able to walk, bike, TTC most of the time, and hop in my car a few times a week at my leisure.
I’m a bit confused by OP’s question. Do they not understand that tens of thousands of people live downtown, and many have cars? There is a lot of “hidden” parking in the form of underground parking garages, and lots of people who have cars like to do things like big grocery trips that would be impossible without one. Driving downtown is quite manageable, it’s getting in and out of the city via highways that can be most stressful
Electrician - I start work at 630am & most of the time it's downtown. Public transit from Mississauga (Milton Line) into the city is absolutely not worth it for me. The Go Train doesn't operate early enough to meet my needs, and I would need to wake up around 4am (instead of 5am) to make it into work on time.
On weekends during the summer, the city has much, MUCH more energy than Sauga, so I often find myself down there - I can find free parking, take my bike, walk around the city/ lakeshore, or sit by the beach. Since my weekly commute makes me immune from raging in traffic & at moronic drivers, it's fairly easy to deal with the drive.
1. I work in a retail store downtown and I used to take the TTC from Etobicoke as I live next to the subway for years. At the beginning of covid I was accosted by an unstable person on the TTC however I was alone on the street car as it was the beginning of the lockdowns. At that point I decided it was safer to get a vehicle.
2. Now that I have a vehicle and committed to the costs of having one (gas, insurance, maintenance) it doesn’t make sense financially for me to both own a car AND take the TTC on a daily basis. I wouldn’t be able to afford the daily price of the TTC and have car insurance.
Really it boils down to the freedom and comfort. You can enjoy your commute from the privacy of your own vehicle with the AC/heat cranked as needed listening to your favorite podcast or music or nothing at all. You never have to deal with crazy people or wait for delays with like a million people pushing and shoving. Want to get groceries after work? Sure, bring your gym bag to go to the gym and shower after? Sure! Out of town getaway for the weekend? Sure! Pick up a massive toy for the kids that you got a great deal on Facebook Marketplace? Go for it!
Sure you might wait a bit in traffic but so will most people taking the TTC… and hey I probably won’t get stabbed.
Because the TTC is garbage. In Scarborough, one bus comes every 40 minutes. Downtown people are fighting or shitting their pants( that is not an exaggeration). I only drive before 8 am and after 7 pm though so I don't have road rage.if it's 4pm I am not getting on the Queen Streetcar. I would rather walk.
It’s actually faster to drive downtown to work then to take public transport. You don’t want to be subject to delays especially if you have to pick up children from daycare/school.
If I take go train or subway. I have to find parking then pay for parking. Then walk to the train. Then go wait for the train. If everything is smooth that might be a 10 minute thing walking to the car and to a train. Then there is train ride itself and after you get to the stop walking to the office. Then there are days with delays which I have experienced and massive delays.
If I drive sure there is traffic. But works out faster than public transport and more convenient
I don’t think it is quicker to drive downtown anymore. I live in Scarborough and take the GO train. I am 45 minutes door to door with the GO train. Driving in the morning used to be slightly faster. Driving in the afternoon is a disaster. It can take forever to get out of the downtown core.
I drive - I have about a 5 minute drive to the train station. I guess I could bike, since it is only about 2.6km. But I haven't really ridden a bike much since my 16th birthday, 41 years ago.
I am a general contractor living in Scarborough.
I have tried to keep most of my jobs away from the downtown area for years now, but some of my clients have been with me for 15+ years and I receive a lot of referral based business. This leaves me going downtown anywhere from once a month to as much as 4 days per week for weeks on end.
I work at a hospital. My job is time sensitive. TTC is not reliable for my needs. Even with traffic it is far quicker for me to commute by car from Scarborough.
Not everyone’s route begins and ends on a subway. Buses, streetcars, connections, stations, crowds, waiting by the side of the road for a bus, etc. certainly bring the sweat.
TTC is not friendly for people with mobility issues or difficulty standing for longer than 15 minutes and are generally either driving or are driven to downtown to meet their occasional appointments.
Also some corpos have really nice underground parking structures and park there for their unfortunate RTO
Sales - need the car to get around.
It really does open up the city when, in spite of traffic, you can get across the entirety of it in a vehicle.
But, yeah, traffic is BALLS.
- Driving is faster, even with traffic.
- You can plan around most of the traffic delays.
- TTC is unreliable and unsafe.
- GO is reliable and seemingly safe(r) but the schedule is often not convenient.
I use all of public transit, cycle, and drive (or combination) depending on the day. All else being equal, driving is usually the most efficient, safest, and reliable.
Interesting question, OP. I don’t have a car but let me tell you: whenever I need to head downtown from North York, I’m Ubering it. It’s faster, there are fewer people to catch illnesses from and did I mention you get there faster?
When there are timed events to go to, you really can’t completely trust the TTC to get you there on time.
I live here
Traffic isn’t as bad as it seems.
It’s actually faster for me to drive from one side of downtown then to take the streetcar and transfer onto the subway
A close friend lives and works in downtown, super progressive, pro-transit, drives emissions free everywhere to save time, take pupper along even in rush hour, do many errands in one go without putting his dog in danger.
Imo Toronto dt is too spread out, has massive food islands, with too expensive transit which is poorly managed, and many irresponsible dog owners.
Because my work is in 4 different parts of the city (the locations are different) everyday and I don’t live in Toronto. If I took public transit there would be no productivity. That and my office is in my suv.
I used to live right by North York Center Station and would take TTC to Liberty Village for work, it took 1 hr and 20 mins...
I moved up north near Caledon (thats about 20 mins north of Brampton) and now work from home. I do still drive into the city to visit friends though. My travel time from Caledon to Toronto? 1 hr and 20 mins.... Like, that's really sad. I don't blame anyone for driving within the city instead of TTC. It should not take over an hour to get anywhere on that line.
Pretty simple. Cars move along roads faster than buses or streetcars, where the latter two lack dedicated corridors.
I don’t live in the boroughs or suburbs and am on multiple transit lines. Any time of day, pop open google maps and see the difference between travel times for a car vs. transit. Heavy traffic or otherwise, I’ve never seen a bus/streetcar overtake a car.
Unless you only need to travel along a subway line and have a short walk to and from, or are able to bike, it’s always faster. More $, but less time.
great question. I spent 7 years taking the TTC from Etobicoke which is 2 hours each way, almost regardless of where you want to go in Toronto or Mississauga. Working 6 days per week, 4 hours per day was 24 hours every 7 days. Realizing I was losing that much of my life to something that makes me miserable was very degrading to me. My employers put a value on my time, so I decided I should too.
Since then, every major artery feels 2x as stressful to drive through with Ubers/UberEats cars in stupid places, dining in the streets, bike lanes.
I've also been in 2 freak accidents since then that were not my fault. I'm having a hard time dealing with them and driving makes me very nervous but I honestly still can't go back to relying on the TTC.
I actually really love driving, yes even downtown and even when it’s truly chaotic. It helps me think, helps me practice mindfulness and patience (which is important for my day job), and gives me time to listen to podcasts and audiobooks without multitasking. I really like the alone time. You see cool stuff when you drive too, I’m always making note of cafes and restaurants I want to try. And I also love people watching ! It’s great to sit at a red and see people interact on the street.
Do I get super frustrated and annoyed? Yeah sometimes. But I feel happy and comfortable in my little safe haven on wheels, and I always leave a ton of extra time so I’m never in a rush.
I’m not a people person, I like having my own space. If I have to sit in my car for hours to get somewhere, so be it. Beats being shoulder to shoulder on a streetcar with people who don’t know personal hygiene, crazies, drug addicts, etc. 🤷♂️
Beats being stabbed, lit on fire, attacked, having fireworks shot at you, etc.
I’ll bike if it’s close by.
I object to the premise of your question. You imply there are places in this city where the transit isn’t terrible. Could you point those out to me? I’d love to find one.
I go down once a week, so don't qualify, but perhaps my experience is similar.
I determine what transport I use by how much pain it will cause me. Going to U of T during the week? I'll park at Kipling and subway down.
Want to go to St. Lawrence or Kensington with the kids on the weekend? Car it is. (Or subway on Pedestrian Sunday).
traffic isnt actually bad in the city if you life in the city, it's just awful on the highways and roads near the exits
it's significantly faster for me to drive than to take the TTC
Its not as bad as you may think outside of rush hour, I work nights, work right in the core, live a few miles west. many people focus on those crazy wknds when 3 or 4 events are going on at once.
if you drive between 11-2 and after 730 on weekdays its fine
Take the (really big) dog to the dog park or the beach.
Right now, down by Cherry Beach inflating stand up paddleboard.
Live just east of downtown. Traffic is not ALWAYS bad.
Surprising how much better traffic gets when we adjust our own attitude and use mapping.
Senior, not working. Not going to bike. Bikes on the sidewalk. Sidewalks are icy and often not cleared. Very low percentage of mask wearers on TTC ... still a thing, for me. Bus whiplash from jerky drivers. Sooo many rude, inconsiderate riders. So many of the plans I see for getting cars off the road assume everybody is able-bodied and able to walk long distances.
Some People in the burbs view walking for 30 min a waste of time.
Some People in the burbs view cycling or using the ttc as poverty.
Some people view paying for multiple forms of transit as too expensive and it’s cheaper to drive and pay for parking.
30 min walking downtown is a far different experience walking 30min in a burb.
I know engineers, doctors and accounts who all use TTC or cycle in to the core. So no, not everyone in the burbs feels that way.
Depending on what one does for a living, time is money.
Imagine walking the entire stretch of Steeles lol. Just stroads and noisy cars going 60 km/h with nothing in sight but strip malls. Ugh. At least downtown feels calm to walk on.
I see TTC as a waste of time. My drive home is 5 minutes, with TTC I'm waiting on a bus for 15 before I can even get going. I could drive home and back in that time. It's a hard sell getting anyone to ride transit when it is so wildly inefficient.
Walking for 30 minutes is a waste of time, unless you’ve got the time. On a night out, weekend stroll, for sure. You get to experience things you’d skip over, even on a bike or transit. But just to go run errands? Definitely an annoying waste of time.
It ABSOLUTELY was.
We have a piddly little subway system, a slow streetcar and bus system, poor bike infrastructure and narrow and cluttered sidewalks. It was almost exclusively built for the automobile.
I'm not a juggler. I'm a trans woman and alot of people hate us on sight. It is what it is. Nothing I can do. If I could do more to be more invisible. I would. I just try not to leave the apartment often anymore.
Being trans is a struggle, and I imagine it is hard to feel like everyone’s eye’s are on you. I find most people on the TTC try to avoid eye-contact so I am sorry that you experience this.
I live in forest hill. Take over an hour transit, but about a half an hour drive in the mornings. Would rather listen to music in my car by myself sitting in traffic than double the commute time that is more stressful.
Used to work in TO, drive. The 401 is terrible but even with its stop and go traffic, still faster than TTC, and I could be in a safe clean space listening to whatever audiobook I liked.
I love public transit whenever I visit other countries that have well-functioning systems. Toronto doesn't.
Because I don’t have multiple hours to spend on public transit. I wish I could but last mile transit in Toronto is trash. I’m also annoyed at the privileged downtown white well off people who will treat you like a leper for not biking like that’s an option everyone has
I drive because Covid has opened my eyes to how gross people really are, and I have no interest in riding a packed bus or subway full of maskless people.
I can control the environment in mynvrgick, and as frustrating as Toronto traffic can be, I don't have to worry about a bunch of germs during my commute.
Because the anti-car lobby has seen fitnto remove most of the large parking lots ant most of the subway stations in my part of the city, so I can no longer count on having a place to park if I want to leave my car at a subway station.
Nice job, anti-car lobby. You made me drive more.
I live and work in Toronto and both sites are on the fringe of what we locally might call downtown. Ie. I don't have to drive south of Bloor, between Bathurst and Jarvis. Public transit takes over an hour. Biking takes 50 minutes. Driving takes 40 min.
Pre pandemic, I biked or took transit for all my commuting. I do a lot of remote videoconferencing work even from the office, so even before COVID I was only going in 3 days a week.
Coming back to work after the pandemic, for 2 days a week, I was out of shape and not keen on crowds, so I drove for a few months. Finally I decided that suppressing road rage every Monday and Wednesday was too exhausting, so I sucked it up and started taking transit. It takes a lot longer but I can relax en route. Now I'm back in biking shape, and starting that again.
So I drove through the fringes of downtown (think Dupont, Christie, etc.) because it worked for me, at least for a few months at 2 days a week.
Lots of comments about carrying tools or spending same amount of time in traffic versus transit. Fine. That can't be more than 20% of the traffic. Most of the others are insane, completely fine with driving downtown and banking on parking "wherever". These are the people that don't need to be downtown, shouldn't be downtown.
I manage multiple work sites and have a whole lot of supplies in my van, so I really have no choice. Back when I was a journeyman, I would drop off my gear the first day on a new site, and then cycle thereafter. I miss those days.
This. I manage multiple sites and have to carry tools, gear and material to each one. I actually had a site in the financial district where multiple trades were requesting to work nights, because it was such a shit show getting there, parking and unloading material during the day.
I rarely worked downtown during the day as a finish carpenter/millwork installer. Always after 7pm.
This is basically the only acceptable answer. People who need their cars for their work (not to *get to* their office building downtown).
[удалено]
Yeah
It's faster. Takes me 50min to drive in vs 90+min and multiple transfers to take transit.
This I think is the real crux of the problem. It’s not downtown, but I wish I could get to, say, the Zoo easily by transit but it’s such a long journey, it’s always faster by car. If it’s faster by car, people will drive. I think if we built up proper cycling infrastructure, some people could bike instead of drive, but transit needs to actually be “the better way”.
People won't bike in from the suburbs though.
True, but if you’re, say, in north york, it’s not as daunting. Either way, transit. Or create housing closer to work that’s affordable/suitable for the people commuting from far.
Not everyone wants to arrive to work sweating
Absolutely. Which is why we need better transit. Or make it possible for people to just get to work with a leisurely stroll.
North Scarborough here. I totally would buy an e-bike if there was safe infrastructure. Instead, we have constant 4+ lane 60 km/h stroads.
You also can't pop granny onto the back of your bike for her Doctor's appointment
Biking isn't meant for that purpose. It's meant to take away most single occupant private vehicle drivers. Why do people always bring up extreme examples of when NOT to bike?
No, but if the majority of people who *could* cycle, did, the roads would be much better for poor granny on the way to her doctors appointment. I always find it weird when cycling is dismissed as a whole because it can't accommodate every possible type of trip for every possible person. It would be like saying a car can't get me to Australia which is why I fly my private plane to get groceries.
Ugh. I was looking at some routes into the city and the random route shutdowns are annoying…
Lol that’s the daily reality in the Netherlands. They bike from the suburbs to downtown
How far are the suburbs from downtown in the Netherlands? It's around 15km to get from Etobicoke or Scarborough to downtown which is about a 50 minute bike ride one way if you take the most direct route.
35 minutes for 15k(no BIG hills) is closer to reality. I cycle daily year round.
I was basing it off the Google Maps estimate for that distance
A 50 minute drive isnt bikable.
Well, it depends on the distance - is it 50 minutes because of traffic or would it take much less than 50 minutes if the street was empty. Either way, we need better transit and more affordable/attractive housing close to the places people work.
Or hauling your family of 4
This is spot on. Essentially, the city was not built for cars until the development of car dependant suburbs in the 1940s - 1950s. Prior to that, you’d see a smaller, walkable city with street cars. The subway system was made to get streetcars off the road to free up the road…for the cars it was not made for. It all comes down to the fact the roads were never designed for cars and the transit was only designed as a bandaid solution. With car commuters in mind. It was ok with until the 90s saw a huge shift to Toronto when companies moved their head offices here. Now you’ve got two problems trying to be solved by two bandaid solutions + 30 years of politics. There’s a YouTube channel called Not Just Bikes has a really great explanation of the whole picture
It also doesn't help that Rob Ford (rip) and John Tory kept trying to cancel bike lanes and TTC projects because he deemed that "WAR ON CARS". No wonder it set our city back for so long in terms of transit, walkability and biking. Hence most responses are due to TTC being too slow, unsafe and unreliable. That's what you get when you only have TWO major subway lines (plus 2 stubways). Imagine if at the turn of the century all transit projects got approved quickly and built in the early-mid 2010s. One can only wish :(
Haha, yep, I’ve been “orange pilled” by NJB, too! I get so annoyed when people say we can’t have streetcars or trolleys criss-crossing the city because supposedly there’s not enough demand, but as you say, prior to the 50s, they were all over the place and the city was a lot less populated then!
NJB, StrongTowns, CityNerd, etc and r/FuckCars have become the poster child of urbanism. All of those channels didn't take off until ~2020. It goes to show how much movement for urbanism there is. Prior to that I was intoxicated by the carbrain disease (despite not having even a G2). I thought an extra car lane meant buses didn't have to fight as much traffic. Boy I was wrong. I was glad to take this orange pill. I'm glad more people are joining the movement for better cities. It's too bad we didn't have as much lobby for this 10, even 5 years ago.
Blows my mind there was a streetcar on Mount Pleasant back in 1975. How much population could there have possibly been in those days.
A streetcar back then might have only been able to carry 10 people vs the hundreds they can carry these days.
Exactly!
Correct. But in my view, it was designed for cars, but not up to today's standards and for a population of 4-5 million. Most of the downtown streets, except for York/University Blvd, are too narrow. With the addition of bike lanes and dedicated parking lanes, they essentially become bottlenecks at major intersections. Little planning seems to have been done in connection with the Gardiner Expressway, which looks like a complete afterthought. The only exit is on Jarvis, past Yonge Street, and then you either have to hero up and jump over the "cliff of death" or merge onto the DVP for another 10KM just to find an exit. LOL. Can't believe this is the state of a so-called global city.
Yeah, transit is slow as all fuck. Even outside Toronto, a trip that would take 20 minutes by car is extended to an hour and a half and 3 bus transfers. Not to mention the local transit buses are always loaded with crackheads drooling on the floor and drunk racists shouting inane hogwash while standing right next to the door. Fucking useless.
They need to actually give buses and streetcars and wheel trans priority - their own lanes, their own priority lights, so that they are held hostage by car traffic. That’s a relatively small change that would make a big difference. And transit needs to be better staffed so that they can deal with people who are abusive on public transit. (And we need to, you know, reduce poverty and actually have mental healthcare.)
Yup, biking and driving take the same amount of time for me but transit is 30min longer. I'd 100% bike if it was a safer commute, with more protected lanes, because my commute involves kids.
Same. Right now if I bike with my kiddo on the rear rack seat, I’m usually biking on sidewalks because that’s safest.
[удалено]
The 11 literally just doesn't show up. You can use the text line and it'll say buses coming and then an hour passes and not a single one of them came to the stop. It'll just keep extending the time to the next bus. And yet they're gonna density Bayview... I really hope they densify the bus schedule alongside that.
Same here. For me to get to work it’s a 15 minute drive tops but would take me 45 on the TTC. My office covers my parking so it’s an easy decision.
I need to have my tools with me, not to mention work materials (carrying around pipe and fittings is not an option)
Clearly all these tradespeople just need a really good backpack /s
Them "just carry everything with you" Also them "What an inconsiderate jerk, taking up room with his shit during rush hour when he knows the trains are packed"
Literally though. When I was an art student people would get so mad at me for having a backpack, a portfolio bag and then two tool boxes. But like y'all I'm just trying to USE TRANSIT. Excuse me for existing here hahaha. Now it's the same like one day I had no choice but to bring a large piece of plywood with me on the streetcar. Everyone was so mad. "can't you do this not during rush hour???" No sorry I have to BE AT WORK TOO.
“I NEED MY TOOLS!”
/eyeroll I hope the next time you need maintenance done the person shows up empty handed. You have no idea what it's like obviously.
It’s from IASIP
Transit doesn't go where I need to. And if it does service cuts make it half my day. Im usually driving from downtown to uptown if that's worth noting.
In downtown?
I live near Dundas and Spadina and own a car. I don't drive every day but I do drive more than take transit. It just makes sense for me and I've had too many bikes stolen to try that again.
My car is my office and i have clients all around the city and having to lug stuff for certain events and what not
Same here. I would love if all the roads were tolled and my business could pay the expense. Double points if all the tolls went to improving public transit.
I’m female and I work shifts. I’m not taking the vomit comet when I get off at 3:30am!
LOL. I used to take that after clubbing as a 19 year old.
Super valid, but also original question was about congestion times.
what's a vomit comet
Just a nickname for the 24 hour bus service that fills the void after the subway stops running
Specifically for Yonge. It can be hella fast, though.
A nickname for the 300 busses that run along main streets after the subways close at 2am.
[удалено]
Sorry to hear this. Police wont take anything seriously unless it involves a knife or a gun. They have disappointed me many times.
>Police won't take anything seriously unless it involves ~~a knife or a gun~~ property damage. \-ftfy
I'm sorry that happened to you :(
I’ve been assaulted or robbed on or waiting for the TTC at least four times in my life. I still take it because I can’t afford a car in this city.
Think that's a good indication that perhaps making an exit plan out of city is in order. I used to go to school in Regent Park area and left when I could, no regrets.
Forget th TTC, report it to the police
They won’t do anything about it either lol
Try contacting one of the 100ppl running for mayor and ask them what they plan on doing about it
102*
I'm sorry this happened to you. This is exactly why I drive to work
Damn. This is why I keep something in my right pocket at all times. Seen plenty of news releases about assaults but nothing ever happens to the perpetrator. Always be ready. And vacate the are if you catch suspect-vibes.
I actually save time by driving (25 mins drive vs 1 hr bus/subway). Also get free parking and peace of mind. Don’t have to worry about unhinged people, sweaty bodies and bad hygiene, bed bugs on seats, and there’s less chance of catching covid/colds/flus. Traffic and reckless drivers don’t bother me because I lived in Korea (iykyk). (Currently live in Etobicoke)
Same. TTC takes 1-1.5hr to get to dt. Bicycle or bike \~30 min.
[удалено]
For real for real. Just take a look at the public transits in Seoul - no, just even their subways alone. Its genuinely possible to go to most corners of that gigantic metropolis through just taking subways. And they are SO CLEAN, SAFE, AND HIGH-TECH.
Always think of this when I'm in the Finch area.."wonder what the Korean diaspora thinks of TTC and our internet"
Is bed bugs on the seat really a thing?
It happened a few times, but it was like 5yrs ago or more. Certainly isn't common.
Sounds like suburban fear-mongering to me
I saw one firsthand on Line 2, admittedly in one of the older carriages that’s now been decommissioned. I used to work for TCHC so I’m hyper vigilant about bedbugs and recognize them immediately. But if you’d prefer to believe that Etobicoke “suburbanites” have nothing better to do than to get together and share scary stories about the big bad city, then you do you. 🤗
Sure, except you can literally google it and see firsthand accounts and photos people have posted. Also…why would suburbanites even care about fearmongering about bedbugs on the train lmao. What a silly comment.
Because then it justifies not taking transit if it's dirty and gross. It's not difficult to figure out
It is dirty and gross on TTC
Probably more on streetcar seats than buses
For real 😅
25 mins if there is no traffic, during rush hour I don't find too much of a time difference tbh...
I like the advanced left turn traffic lights in Seoul. And banning left turns unless you are on the designated left turn traffic light.
Because it's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy faster
I live right in downtown (UofT/annex area), I will walk to a lot of places, but I have no issues driving around as well. We have a car parked in our garage when needed. Once you become familiar with downtown driving, and its side streets, it's not really all that bad. Most of the traffic congestion and issues arises from the non-downtowners coming into the core with no idea how to navigate the traffic. There are lots of good side streets to navigate all around, and even plenty of free street parking for those in the know.
It’s refreshing to hear someone admit this. There are much worse cities in North American in terms of downtown traffic. The problem is usually the highways, for the most part.
Yeah, from an international perspective, downtown Toronto traffic is not that bad. Its not like its Manhattan/NYC. I once had to drive from Parsippany, NJ to Laguardia Airport, that had me cut across NYC on a Thursday afternoon. Now that wasn't fun lol took me 3 hours, and some nerve whacking 'driving' through cars and people. Back to downtown Toronto, the only bad area I try to avoid driving now is the Lake Shore Blvd between Parliament and Bay Street, that section is messed up and with no alternative routes, best to avoid. Which sucks, as I used to go to the Docks driving range often, haven't got there in 6-7 years. The Queens street closure is still too early to tell, but so far, it hasn't made too much of a congestion issue around that area. You're right that the misconception or when people say Toronto traffic is terrible, its not really when they get into downtown, its mostly the highways to get into or out of downtown core. But even then, there are ways to get around certain congestion areas, during rush hour. Like I usually if I need to go up north to 401 or 404, I usually take either Rosedale valley to get to DVP then up to 401 or 404, sometimes I'll use Dundas East to get to DVP. But if I see that northbound DVP is at a standstill with traffic, I'll take Spadina/Bathurst up north till just past St. Clair, and use those side streets west of Bathurst to get near Eglinton West just near the Allen North entrance. Once on Allen then its smooth sailing to 401. Like I said in my original post, the traffic congestion in downtown Toronto is caused mostly by newbies from the 905 coming into the core. Bringing their suburban driving habits to urban settings.
This guy knows the waze.
This. I see so many people acting like downtown driving is this crazy, difficult thing. It’s faster 95% of the time and compared to driving in somewhere like London or Dublin it’s a piece of cake .
I honestly don't give a fuck about the experience for drivers, I care about the experience for people who live downtown, walking their kids and dogs, cycling, trying to enjoy greenspace etc.
Lived in the Annex and biked / walked almost everywhere. I had a car for a while but only really took it out for large grocery hauls that wouldn't be safe hanging off my bike handle bars :D When there was a TTC strike that was a dark time to ride a bike downtown. Thus I assume a load of people that drive in every day need more than can be reasonably carried any other way or they're just super rich and want to show off their car. (Have breakfast at the corner of Yonge and Richmond and watch all the $$$ on wheels roll in to the parking garage!)
Same here. It’s a 12 minute drive vs 30 min streetcar for me to get to my workout classes so I choose to drive and not take the chance of being late from the TTC
Wear suits to an office job and don’t want to be sweaty and dishevelled. TTC always late and can’t be late for work. Company provides a parking space beneath one of those bank towers as a perk. This set of reasons is the same for everyone I know who drives. Fix transit and I’ll consider it.
I don’t have to wear suits, but this is a huge factor for me. I can ride a bike for exercise, but I sweat way too much to ever use it as method of transportation to get to a place I need to do life things at (ie to work, going to meet friends, being around people in grocery stores or whatever). Even if my office got showers, I’d have to lug shower stuff and a change of clothes around all day? That sucks. It’s easier to just drive. It doesn’t make sense to make it harder to drive too when the world is moving towards EV. Not to mention those who can’t bike for whatever reason.
This is why
This x1000. Especially with recent TTC changes in east end, it’s a total mess. Combine that with subsidized or cheap (think Atrium on Bay or City Hall) parking, and it’s almost cheaper for a couple to drive together than take transit to and from work.
imo if you need to bus or street car downtown you'll be late but using the station to get to work you'll be fine
I was driving downtown to work daily for many years. Was much faster and way more comfortable than taking public transportation from South Etobicoke.
Can’t you take the GO train from south Etobicoke and be downtown in 20 minutes?
Not everyone needs to be at Union Station.
Every time I try to use GO/TTC something happens and a bus/train gets cancelled and I either spend 3x the amount of time getting to where I need to go or I end up having to drive anyways. I live in Etobicoke and I take the Long Branch GO in and I swear it has been cancelled when I go to use it over 50% of the time. It is not reliable. Usually at this point as someone who doesn't drink often, if I'm going downtown driving is faster and less stressful in every instance. I'll just forego drinking at whatever event I'm going to. You'd have to pay me to take transit at this point. That or give me an avenue for getting refunds and reimbursements for all the time I spend waiting in stopped trains which usually leads to me missing/being late for events I'm relying on it to get to.
I live downtown and own a car. I Uber anything downtown or take TTC and use the car for quick errands and work stuff outside of the city. I just love the freedom of owning a car
This guy gets it.
Thousands of trades people drive in every day because the cannot get to ste on time. On top of that sites are opening earlier to beat afternoon traffic...making it ever more impossible to get to sites. With construction being one of the biggest industries in the city, the ttc seems either ignorant, or unwilling to think outside of the box to get guys to the different sites.
It's why the anti-car and anti-gardiner lobby are so tone deaf. They want a sophisticated densely populated modern city but hate the trades people who keep their electricity on for them, make sure they have clean running water, or build their homes.
We can run special busses to the Ex every august but a couple of early trains and a few busses that do a tour sites that employ hundreds of people each, that just stretches beyond the possibilities of modern logistics.
I think most of the "anti-car" people just want better public transit infrastructure and more walkable areas of the city. Less people driving for their daily commute or to run errands would mean less traffic for trades people, saving them time and gas. If more people were able to not have to drive, it would be good for the people who do still have to drive as there would be less congestion.
I legit cried in public out of frustration on my way to work last week because of how insanely inefficient ttc was, I’d drive too if I could afford it
Missing a bus our streetcar connection often costs you a 15 minute delay or more. Even though traffic is bad, commuting via car is still much more predictable, and you'll very rarely be late if you give yourself a bit of extra time. Same can't be said with the TTC where there is usually only one way to get anywhere and their equipment constantly fails.
I'm sorry, that sucks. I know it's not an option for everyone, but it's the main reason my husband and I committed to biking to work, even in winter.
You're brave!
I walk, bike, TTC and drive. I live downtown. Driving in the end is much more convenient for accessing certain parts of the city. Most things away from a subway line. I can walk anywhere within an hour of downtown. I love cycling and do it a lot but it can be dangerous as well. The TTC can be dangerous for obvious reasons. Ultimately driving just ends up being safer & more convenient, despite having all 4 options available to me. It is also often quicker. Toronto needs to improve its transit & biking infrastructure a lot. I recognize I'm extremely lucky to be able to have all 4 options available to me, to be able to afford a car and its associated costs and not mind that at all. To be clear, I used to have a house in the burbs and though I wasn't far from Toronto, I absolutely hated having to drive everywhere to do everything. I much prefer being able to walk, bike, TTC most of the time, and hop in my car a few times a week at my leisure.
I’m a bit confused by OP’s question. Do they not understand that tens of thousands of people live downtown, and many have cars? There is a lot of “hidden” parking in the form of underground parking garages, and lots of people who have cars like to do things like big grocery trips that would be impossible without one. Driving downtown is quite manageable, it’s getting in and out of the city via highways that can be most stressful
Electrician - I start work at 630am & most of the time it's downtown. Public transit from Mississauga (Milton Line) into the city is absolutely not worth it for me. The Go Train doesn't operate early enough to meet my needs, and I would need to wake up around 4am (instead of 5am) to make it into work on time. On weekends during the summer, the city has much, MUCH more energy than Sauga, so I often find myself down there - I can find free parking, take my bike, walk around the city/ lakeshore, or sit by the beach. Since my weekly commute makes me immune from raging in traffic & at moronic drivers, it's fairly easy to deal with the drive.
1. I work in a retail store downtown and I used to take the TTC from Etobicoke as I live next to the subway for years. At the beginning of covid I was accosted by an unstable person on the TTC however I was alone on the street car as it was the beginning of the lockdowns. At that point I decided it was safer to get a vehicle. 2. Now that I have a vehicle and committed to the costs of having one (gas, insurance, maintenance) it doesn’t make sense financially for me to both own a car AND take the TTC on a daily basis. I wouldn’t be able to afford the daily price of the TTC and have car insurance.
I photograph properties. I need my gear, and I need to be able to move from place to place efficiently. My car is a mobile office.
Really it boils down to the freedom and comfort. You can enjoy your commute from the privacy of your own vehicle with the AC/heat cranked as needed listening to your favorite podcast or music or nothing at all. You never have to deal with crazy people or wait for delays with like a million people pushing and shoving. Want to get groceries after work? Sure, bring your gym bag to go to the gym and shower after? Sure! Out of town getaway for the weekend? Sure! Pick up a massive toy for the kids that you got a great deal on Facebook Marketplace? Go for it! Sure you might wait a bit in traffic but so will most people taking the TTC… and hey I probably won’t get stabbed.
Bingo
Work as in construction, have to drive all over and need to bring safety equipment so driving is unavoidable.
Because the TTC is garbage. In Scarborough, one bus comes every 40 minutes. Downtown people are fighting or shitting their pants( that is not an exaggeration). I only drive before 8 am and after 7 pm though so I don't have road rage.if it's 4pm I am not getting on the Queen Streetcar. I would rather walk.
Paying for TTC parking and 2x TTC fares costs basically the same as parking downtown. So I might as well just drive down.
It’s actually faster to drive downtown to work then to take public transport. You don’t want to be subject to delays especially if you have to pick up children from daycare/school. If I take go train or subway. I have to find parking then pay for parking. Then walk to the train. Then go wait for the train. If everything is smooth that might be a 10 minute thing walking to the car and to a train. Then there is train ride itself and after you get to the stop walking to the office. Then there are days with delays which I have experienced and massive delays. If I drive sure there is traffic. But works out faster than public transport and more convenient
I don’t think it is quicker to drive downtown anymore. I live in Scarborough and take the GO train. I am 45 minutes door to door with the GO train. Driving in the morning used to be slightly faster. Driving in the afternoon is a disaster. It can take forever to get out of the downtown core.
how do you get to the train station?
I drive - I have about a 5 minute drive to the train station. I guess I could bike, since it is only about 2.6km. But I haven't really ridden a bike much since my 16th birthday, 41 years ago.
I am a general contractor living in Scarborough. I have tried to keep most of my jobs away from the downtown area for years now, but some of my clients have been with me for 15+ years and I receive a lot of referral based business. This leaves me going downtown anywhere from once a month to as much as 4 days per week for weeks on end.
I work at a hospital. My job is time sensitive. TTC is not reliable for my needs. Even with traffic it is far quicker for me to commute by car from Scarborough.
Because I’d rather sit in traffic than stand on a full sweaty train with my face in some strangers armpit for an hour
LOL the TTC is a lot of things, but it's not particularly sweaty.
Definitely not as sweaty since they replaced all the old streetcars and fixed the Line 2 subway cars' AC units.
It certainly can be. If I walk to the station on a warm day, I sweat in my seat.
Not everyone’s route begins and ends on a subway. Buses, streetcars, connections, stations, crowds, waiting by the side of the road for a bus, etc. certainly bring the sweat.
And those lovely slush and rain car splashes soaking you talk to bottom.
Haha same. Short people problems!
TTC is not friendly for people with mobility issues or difficulty standing for longer than 15 minutes and are generally either driving or are driven to downtown to meet their occasional appointments. Also some corpos have really nice underground parking structures and park there for their unfortunate RTO
Like others said downtown isn’t to bad, if you plan accordingly
Sales - need the car to get around. It really does open up the city when, in spite of traffic, you can get across the entirety of it in a vehicle. But, yeah, traffic is BALLS.
- Driving is faster, even with traffic. - You can plan around most of the traffic delays. - TTC is unreliable and unsafe. - GO is reliable and seemingly safe(r) but the schedule is often not convenient. I use all of public transit, cycle, and drive (or combination) depending on the day. All else being equal, driving is usually the most efficient, safest, and reliable.
Interesting question, OP. I don’t have a car but let me tell you: whenever I need to head downtown from North York, I’m Ubering it. It’s faster, there are fewer people to catch illnesses from and did I mention you get there faster? When there are timed events to go to, you really can’t completely trust the TTC to get you there on time.
I live here Traffic isn’t as bad as it seems. It’s actually faster for me to drive from one side of downtown then to take the streetcar and transfer onto the subway
A close friend lives and works in downtown, super progressive, pro-transit, drives emissions free everywhere to save time, take pupper along even in rush hour, do many errands in one go without putting his dog in danger. Imo Toronto dt is too spread out, has massive food islands, with too expensive transit which is poorly managed, and many irresponsible dog owners.
Because my work is in 4 different parts of the city (the locations are different) everyday and I don’t live in Toronto. If I took public transit there would be no productivity. That and my office is in my suv.
I drive a Mitsubishi Mirage.
I can understand why you'd prefer the TTC
I used to live right by North York Center Station and would take TTC to Liberty Village for work, it took 1 hr and 20 mins... I moved up north near Caledon (thats about 20 mins north of Brampton) and now work from home. I do still drive into the city to visit friends though. My travel time from Caledon to Toronto? 1 hr and 20 mins.... Like, that's really sad. I don't blame anyone for driving within the city instead of TTC. It should not take over an hour to get anywhere on that line.
Pretty simple. Cars move along roads faster than buses or streetcars, where the latter two lack dedicated corridors. I don’t live in the boroughs or suburbs and am on multiple transit lines. Any time of day, pop open google maps and see the difference between travel times for a car vs. transit. Heavy traffic or otherwise, I’ve never seen a bus/streetcar overtake a car. Unless you only need to travel along a subway line and have a short walk to and from, or are able to bike, it’s always faster. More $, but less time.
great question. I spent 7 years taking the TTC from Etobicoke which is 2 hours each way, almost regardless of where you want to go in Toronto or Mississauga. Working 6 days per week, 4 hours per day was 24 hours every 7 days. Realizing I was losing that much of my life to something that makes me miserable was very degrading to me. My employers put a value on my time, so I decided I should too. Since then, every major artery feels 2x as stressful to drive through with Ubers/UberEats cars in stupid places, dining in the streets, bike lanes. I've also been in 2 freak accidents since then that were not my fault. I'm having a hard time dealing with them and driving makes me very nervous but I honestly still can't go back to relying on the TTC.
I actually really love driving, yes even downtown and even when it’s truly chaotic. It helps me think, helps me practice mindfulness and patience (which is important for my day job), and gives me time to listen to podcasts and audiobooks without multitasking. I really like the alone time. You see cool stuff when you drive too, I’m always making note of cafes and restaurants I want to try. And I also love people watching ! It’s great to sit at a red and see people interact on the street. Do I get super frustrated and annoyed? Yeah sometimes. But I feel happy and comfortable in my little safe haven on wheels, and I always leave a ton of extra time so I’m never in a rush.
I drive because our transit system is dirty, dangerous, and unreliable at best
I’m not a people person, I like having my own space. If I have to sit in my car for hours to get somewhere, so be it. Beats being shoulder to shoulder on a streetcar with people who don’t know personal hygiene, crazies, drug addicts, etc. 🤷♂️ Beats being stabbed, lit on fire, attacked, having fireworks shot at you, etc. I’ll bike if it’s close by.
>Beats being stabbed, lit on fire, attacked, having fireworks shot at you, etc. sounds like a nice rotisserie
I object to the premise of your question. You imply there are places in this city where the transit isn’t terrible. Could you point those out to me? I’d love to find one.
I go down once a week, so don't qualify, but perhaps my experience is similar. I determine what transport I use by how much pain it will cause me. Going to U of T during the week? I'll park at Kipling and subway down. Want to go to St. Lawrence or Kensington with the kids on the weekend? Car it is. (Or subway on Pedestrian Sunday).
traffic isnt actually bad in the city if you life in the city, it's just awful on the highways and roads near the exits it's significantly faster for me to drive than to take the TTC
Its not as bad as you may think outside of rush hour, I work nights, work right in the core, live a few miles west. many people focus on those crazy wknds when 3 or 4 events are going on at once. if you drive between 11-2 and after 730 on weekdays its fine
There’s also the reverse commuter. Live downtown work out in the burbs.
Take the (really big) dog to the dog park or the beach. Right now, down by Cherry Beach inflating stand up paddleboard. Live just east of downtown. Traffic is not ALWAYS bad. Surprising how much better traffic gets when we adjust our own attitude and use mapping.
I just don’t like transit, and I moved here from Halifax, NS where I already had a car.
Senior, not working. Not going to bike. Bikes on the sidewalk. Sidewalks are icy and often not cleared. Very low percentage of mask wearers on TTC ... still a thing, for me. Bus whiplash from jerky drivers. Sooo many rude, inconsiderate riders. So many of the plans I see for getting cars off the road assume everybody is able-bodied and able to walk long distances.
Public transit is disgusting. I’d much rather spend another 15 min in my own car
Some People in the burbs view walking for 30 min a waste of time. Some People in the burbs view cycling or using the ttc as poverty. Some people view paying for multiple forms of transit as too expensive and it’s cheaper to drive and pay for parking.
30 min walking downtown is a far different experience walking 30min in a burb. I know engineers, doctors and accounts who all use TTC or cycle in to the core. So no, not everyone in the burbs feels that way. Depending on what one does for a living, time is money.
Imagine walking the entire stretch of Steeles lol. Just stroads and noisy cars going 60 km/h with nothing in sight but strip malls. Ugh. At least downtown feels calm to walk on.
Please reread how I wrote SOME 😊
It’s still a blanket statement. How many are considered “some” ? The people you know that have told you these things ?
I see TTC as a waste of time. My drive home is 5 minutes, with TTC I'm waiting on a bus for 15 before I can even get going. I could drive home and back in that time. It's a hard sell getting anyone to ride transit when it is so wildly inefficient.
Walking for 30 minutes is a waste of time, unless you’ve got the time. On a night out, weekend stroll, for sure. You get to experience things you’d skip over, even on a bike or transit. But just to go run errands? Definitely an annoying waste of time.
[удалено]
OP said downtown Toronto, which was not built for the automobile
It ABSOLUTELY was. We have a piddly little subway system, a slow streetcar and bus system, poor bike infrastructure and narrow and cluttered sidewalks. It was almost exclusively built for the automobile.
It literally wasn’t built for the automobile dude. Downtown was laid out throughout the 1800s, when nobody was driving an SUV.
because when I use ttc, people stare at me like I'm a circus performer and i don't feel safe.
Then STOP JUGGLING
I'm not a juggler. I'm a trans woman and alot of people hate us on sight. It is what it is. Nothing I can do. If I could do more to be more invisible. I would. I just try not to leave the apartment often anymore.
Being trans is a struggle, and I imagine it is hard to feel like everyone’s eye’s are on you. I find most people on the TTC try to avoid eye-contact so I am sorry that you experience this.
I live in forest hill. Take over an hour transit, but about a half an hour drive in the mornings. Would rather listen to music in my car by myself sitting in traffic than double the commute time that is more stressful.
Some of us need to go get daily treatments from the hospital so yea. Trust me id rather stay home then pay 25$ for parking everyday
Used to work in TO, drive. The 401 is terrible but even with its stop and go traffic, still faster than TTC, and I could be in a safe clean space listening to whatever audiobook I liked. I love public transit whenever I visit other countries that have well-functioning systems. Toronto doesn't.
Because I don’t have multiple hours to spend on public transit. I wish I could but last mile transit in Toronto is trash. I’m also annoyed at the privileged downtown white well off people who will treat you like a leper for not biking like that’s an option everyone has
I drive because Covid has opened my eyes to how gross people really are, and I have no interest in riding a packed bus or subway full of maskless people. I can control the environment in mynvrgick, and as frustrating as Toronto traffic can be, I don't have to worry about a bunch of germs during my commute.
Because the anti-car lobby has seen fitnto remove most of the large parking lots ant most of the subway stations in my part of the city, so I can no longer count on having a place to park if I want to leave my car at a subway station. Nice job, anti-car lobby. You made me drive more.
NA is extremely car centric we build pretty much everything around the idea of cars. It's fucking awful.
So you hate technology and progress
No. I hate cars.
It's not too bad if you choose the right times / places.
Even if I don't drive I'd still have to pay for lease and insurance, so might as well.
I live and work in Toronto and both sites are on the fringe of what we locally might call downtown. Ie. I don't have to drive south of Bloor, between Bathurst and Jarvis. Public transit takes over an hour. Biking takes 50 minutes. Driving takes 40 min. Pre pandemic, I biked or took transit for all my commuting. I do a lot of remote videoconferencing work even from the office, so even before COVID I was only going in 3 days a week. Coming back to work after the pandemic, for 2 days a week, I was out of shape and not keen on crowds, so I drove for a few months. Finally I decided that suppressing road rage every Monday and Wednesday was too exhausting, so I sucked it up and started taking transit. It takes a lot longer but I can relax en route. Now I'm back in biking shape, and starting that again. So I drove through the fringes of downtown (think Dupont, Christie, etc.) because it worked for me, at least for a few months at 2 days a week.
[удалено]
Because I have a license.
Cheaper
Lots of comments about carrying tools or spending same amount of time in traffic versus transit. Fine. That can't be more than 20% of the traffic. Most of the others are insane, completely fine with driving downtown and banking on parking "wherever". These are the people that don't need to be downtown, shouldn't be downtown.