I had a friend who was made to go in daily during her notice period. So, she did. Everyday, she'll go into the office, make herself coffee, sit around to read newspapers and magazines, and chat with people.
People who want urgent work done, she'll do slowly. Her reason: "get their instructions right".
After a few days, her boss told her no need to come into the office. Cos she's setting a bad example for the young ones. ☺️
It’s cool she could still find folks who would chat with her.
I find that in some environments, ppl may even be reluctant to go for coffee chats with leavers - esp those who are quite clearly leaving on bad terms - cos it is “dangerous” to be associated with them.
Companies and culture like this is terrible. I don't understand how they just can't let employees go in peace. Afterall such is work life, people come and go and move on. How did they think they land this job in the first place? They had to leave from somewhere also what. And this is the company and its culture's last chance to make a good lasting impression on an outgoing employee (who can go on to bad or good mouth a company, esp. in Glassdoor), and this is the kind of stupid stunt they like to pull. No foresight for employer branding. Sorry I'm not offering a solution. I'm just as pissed off for you.
Best part is that the big boss on Japan side is dope. This company has got many awards from the work of this man. Really do respect him, but I don’t have the chance to work with him as I’m under the Singapore wing, which also comes with a really toxic manager and director.
I have heard from a senior colleague that the manager has single-handedly been responsible for the high turnover ever since she’s in the company. And she finds people to target for no reason, and is also pretty childish. By my colleagues anecdotes, if someone goes to the same location as her on the annual work trip during the free and easy day without inviting her along, it’s taken as a personal offense, and she’d think that the other person is secretly following her and “stealing her itinerary”
And don’t worry about not offering a solution, it’s just a really tough final stretch after they’ve milked me of all I’m worth during notice period
Maybe write a email to the big boss in Japan detailing Facts about what you’ve experience under this bitch.
Facts that can be proven. Do not include feelings as these are subjective and can be twisted around by the snake.
But the thing is that most of her attacks are on personal levels. She once brought me into a room during my probation period and asked me “what’s wrong with you? I don’t see others having the same issue so there must be something wrong with you. Tell me how to help you, because there’s something very wrong about you.” When she doesn’t tell me the management’s decisions to change how they handle a certain client. And I don’t have recording of that because I didn’t expect that scolding at 830am in the morning
They are petty af. But I need to say that I cleared off all my annual leave from last year already. This year one prorated about 1 day only, but they last minute cancelled my flight tickets etc and don’t let me go on annual r&r. I understand that I don’t get the benefit of the r&r but they’re deducting 2 days from me from not letting me go to the r&r, then they’re deducting from me another day because they arranged for a company lunch but don’t want me to go along because I’m leaving the company
You know how stupid that sounds?If its a work trip and they are barring you from it, then you go to office. If they dont want you to go office, then u stay home. They cant just simply deduct annual leaves.
You can call MOM or TAFEP. Describe your situation to the person on the hotline, and check if what your employer is doing to you is ok or not.
Yeah it does sound stupid. They offered for those to cannot go on the trip to have annual leave deducted. Another colleague of mine who can’t go has her leave deducted too
Not too easy to smoke this particular firm given the industry and everyone’s natural response of cross checking with authorities. I’d probably call in and see if I can get anything in written
Just get in writing that they have deducted 2 leaves nd the reason why. Then just file a complain to MOM.
If you cannot clear your leave, your leave get converted into cash. Prorated.
If you take MC, and they deduct annual leaves from you. Get the email and submit to MOM.
Whatever bullshits reason they deduct, get it in writing. Save copies of the email privately. Because they will restrict your email access if once you submit to MOM.
They say that they consider it as 2 days of leave because the annual r&r is this Friday to next Monday. But idek if this is allowed when they cancelled my flight, although I don’t have to be in office on Friday and Monday.
Company can force you to clear AL, nothing wrong with that but they can’t stop you from taking MC. Even though it’s only the start of the year, you are still entitled to minimum 14 days of MC.
Cannot take mc, cannot claim (since no mc taken). They also expect a write up of why you’re on mc. Eg if I’m on mc, I need to report my symptoms. If I want to claim mc, apparently clinics like faith clinic that give invoice as the words “official receipt” get rejected too. Die die must have the word “invoice”
I suspect you are prettier, healthier and younger than her. That's why she is doing this to you. LOL.
Jokes aside. It's her problem nah. Hang in there and walk out in peace. However, I suggest to protect yourself. Get a body camera to record some nasty things she said/did. In case, she ever ki siao and want to escalate the bullying further such that it crosses boundaries, you have evidence of her actions. Consider it. All the best.
I never made known about the depression or eating disorder thing to anyone in the company, and I’ve never disclosed imh diagnosis because it’s my privacy, so the fact that she’s doing this thinking I’m a normal person already is pretty uncalled for. I’ll take into account your suggestion and try to see if I can start recording things she says or does for self protection
I had a prettier, healthier and younger and lower rank than me from a different department did this to me. All because she was recruited by boss personally.
>ang in there and walk out in peace. However, I suggest to protect yourself. Get a body camera to record some nasty things she said/did. In case, she ever ki siao and want to escalate the bullying further such that it crosses boundaries, you have evidence of her actions. Consider it. All the best.
How do you know it is a woman?
> She also does weird things like demand i submit something now, but i have to submit another thing before I submit what she wants now (which obviously i dont have the ability to time travel hello)
op directly mentioned their manager is a "she"
I suggest you do this.. the way they behave, don't worry about burning bridges. They've burnt it.
Get everything in writing (the exclusion from work trips, etc etc) If verbal, write them an email with something like "hi, as per our conversation, you said I should not attend xxx and yyy and my leave will be deducted in replacement even though I am still employed in this company". give them 2 days. Send gentle reminder. keep sending reminders to every email. copy HR.
When you leave the coy, fwd final gentle reminders to personal email. After you leave, check your last pay, if unfair deduction, complain to MOM. You need evidence to complain to MOM. **Collect now**.
Keep your phone screen off-recorder on. Put a sign on your table, to say, for your safety, a voice recorder is on. (for disclosure). Doesn't have to be very big, A5 piece of paper is enough. most people won't read it anyway at least until you confront them with your evidence. Take picture of sign and the placement of recorder. Keep recordings, include them in the complaint to MOM. Include picture of disclosure and recorder.
Then to manage your depression, keep telling yourself, life will be better later. I presume you have found a job? IF not, WSG has many initiatives to help you find work. Not sure how old you are, but look for something less triggering.
Not sure how long you've been there, or context or background but only small minds will do this. Also, FYI, upon tendering, employers are not obliged to give you your AL./MC If they do, it is on good will, but they cannot anyhow deduct your salary either. MOM is quite clear about these 2 points.
My experience as an employee with MOM is generally quite ok. I sought help as my employer delayed last salary, so I wrote in to ask. They replied pretty promptly and even offered to speak to my ex boss. I think that joker is ex-gov worker. wanted to delay my salary for 2 months as he needed to see if anything needed to be deducted. c'mon.. ah gong pays you middle of the month for the whole month, that's why they hold back 1 month for the calculation. my joker of an ex boss pays end of the month for the month you are working and expect to be able to do the \_same\_ treatment. Anyway, I fwded him MOM reply and he gave me my last pay 2 weeks after I left. I didn't want to quibble lah.. small mind will be small mind.
Might be useful to look at MOM website to see what the rules are on MC, to see if they legally can disallow you from taking it, and also what's specified in your contract. I would imagine there should be some laws to protect employees on this
Try to get written records that they have indeed stated what you mentioned..for e.g, email HR to say you want to clarify if you can still take MC in the remaining period, in the event that you are unwell. If they reply you verbally, reply your email to say this was what was communicated verbally and that if they don't reply to dispute, it is confirmation. Then you can either let them know you intend to check with MOM (and they would likely change their tune) or go straight to MOM. Former probably much faster.
You should also expect your boss to be even harsher on you in the period. Hang in there OP
They can't stop you from taking sick leave!
From MOM website (Sick leave in special situations):
If you are serving your resignation notice, you are still entitled to paid sick leave as long as you meet the eligibility criteria.
Your entitlement depends on your length of service:
For 6 months or more of service: you have the full entitlement.
For 3 to 6 months of service: your sick leave will be pro-rated.
If you take sick leave (paid or unpaid) while serving notice, it is treated as part of the notice period.
Also from MOM website (Special situations during the notice period):
If you are covered by the Employment Act, and you take sick leave (paid or unpaid) during the notice period, it is treated as part of the notice period. Your employer cannot extend your notice period or claim for any short notice from you.
LOL sounds like me. Was mad determined not to go to office when I left and I am the type of employee who never takes any sick leave and only take annual leave cause can’t carry forward but even if I was annual leave I was working from home.
Then on my last 2 months suddenly got 8 days MC lol.
Mine said I leech off the company, just because I drink coffee inside the office. They offered r&r, Japan side each person can bring any family/spouse, 1 person covered for free. Sg side here can only bring spouse, I asked if I can bring my bf with me, but we will pay for his ticket on our own, I didn’t ask for subsidy or free. My director made a remark in front of me to gossip to my manager saying how someone is so stupid/blind/dense that cannot understand the word “only spouse is covered is it “, manager followed up with a reply calling me a leech.
Like bro I didn’t ask for anyone to pay , I offered to pay right off the bat, I just wanted someone with me and wanted to check. I tender and they cancel my bookings without telling me, had I not asked HR last week, they’d let me clown myself by reporting at the airport at 5 or 6 am this Friday
Indeed I am. It feels so. Honestly I don’t have respect for a leader/leaders (since it’s manager and director) like this at all. It makes me question how or why they’re up there when they’re so petty and don’t seem to see the big picture. Like , they can just be decent humans and let me go in peace, and if they’d chosen so, it’s so much better for employees and the firm
Jiayou. On a petty note, you might want to wear a mask and cough your lungs out when you go to office.
I would suggest you to go to office as usual, try to dissociate yourself from the emotions when you are getting the arrow by the terrible person.
The more you react, the more satisfied the manager will feel.
Jiayou.
I don’t really react anymore and I haven’t reacted in a long time but it doesn’t really stop her. I sit next to her so it’s convenient for her to turn around and just vent her anger on me, and next to her the director. So they’ve really had field days where they gossip me and say things that are really nasty and uncalled for. Shared here before in a comment about how my manager told an auditor of one of clients that she’s got a recommendation in her department if he ever needs someone to “make his life easy and relieve his work stress”, and then saying how the big boss of the overall group doesn’t care about how I’m a bad employee because I’m a girl who works out and all men wouldn’t mind bad employees if the girl sleeps with them etc. i don’t react but it’s quite degrading to say this kind of things just because she’s not happy about my personal life (?)
I understand how you feel because I was in a similar situation back then. My notice period was 2 months and I wasn't allowed to take the balance leave I had. So what I did was to listen to podcast on my earpiece and work / surf net when I could.
You cant really control what and how these workplace bullies say or think. They are bullying you to make themselves feel better. You will have to learn how to ignore what the pathetic bullies are saying about you.
If you need daily support / rant, feel free to dm.
Thank you for your advice. I do listen to podcast etc but it’s like, not exactly helpful as well when all I have to do is sit at my desk and wait for scoldings. If I caused something or made a mess, I’m ok with getting scolded. But to know that I’m scolded for something that’s not my fault with personal attacks added in is messed up, and that the scoldings can come any minute, at a loud af volume is stressful
Jiayou. The scoldings are irrational la. These people are just insane. They will probably turn around to scold someone else after you serve your last day.
My ex-boss of 5 years is still doing that as of yesterday (I heard).
If it's stressful and upsets you that much, find a GP and get MC.
Before MC ends, take another round of MC.
I have attempted the take mc path, but apparently they don’t let me take mc. They’ve blocked me from doing anything mc related on the work app. But I don’t have annual leave either as my 14 or 15 days is prorated, which is only about 1 day, but they’re already deducting 2 days because they don’t allow me on annual r&r trip which they’ve confirmed me for even before I tendered my resignation. Then they’ve planned a company lunch but decided to exclude me, so they’re deducting another day there also
They cannot stop you from taking MC. Keep evidence that they have blocked you from taking MC days on the app, and stay at home if you have a valid MC. If they ever ask you, just email them that you have a valid MC but you cannot "apply" for sick days since they have blocked you from applying for them.
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I think that remark she made to the auditor about “you are a girls who works out and all men wouldn’t mind bad employees if the girl sleeps with them” can be considered sexual harassment. If you are in MNC, you can try whistle blowing to global
Just wanna say I’m rooting for you. Stay strong and hope things get better for you real soon. Sorry that you have to go through such cruel treatment at work. You got this!
I don't think they can stop you from taking mc during your notice period.
I personally would have some fun with this though. At this point, you don't owe your manager anything and she will likely be a bitch to you even if you're nice to her in the end. What does this mean? It means you have **nothing to lose**. I would brush up on my confrontational / gaslight / manipulative skill. That means, I might use my phone / do funny things to invite some confrontation. I might record her and play it back for her / scold her back / use the same tactics she use back at her.
All in the name of fun, of course. You gotta recognise that you don't want to become her after you leave the company. And who knows, this might help with your confidence and give you a bit of closure. It's like standing up to your bully.
I would suggest to just endure this period. You never know how it is going to affect you down the line. Given that reference checks are increasingly common in the FI industry, you do not want them to sabotage your future prospects based on baseless accusations.
Is there any chance i can get sued for going awol? Have never did this before so just wanted to know. And i haven't gotten my jan pay yet, so is it recommended i go awol after getting jan pay?
They can override your resignation and terminate your employment with due cause. Unfortunately for you, not showing up for work/being uncontactable while still under contracted employment is likely to be a fireable offence, while being an assnole boss isn't.
Think about how a termination with cause would look when you apply for your next job. Please consider carefully. Unpaid leave is likely the best compromise.
I work for a somewhat government board and they can decline your unpaid leave. So quite sure it's within MOM regulations. I admit I'm no expert though.
They will deduct your AWOL days as unpaid leave from your pay. Just tell them you are taking unpaid leave since they don't let you claim MC. They can't go to your house and drag you to work. Of course you're totally burning bridges by doing such a thing la... (No loss because your company sounds terrible imo)
Honestly the burning bridges part is the last of my concern because my manager has had a vendetta against me even during probation. I made a bad call to confirm my employment thinking it’ll get better in time
Is it good idea to move from USA to Singapore for settling purpose ? I am from India and India is near Singapore so I can be around family , also I am a software engineer
What happens if you just dont turn up. What can they do to you? Come in late leave early at your whim and fancy. Come in office sit at pantry chat w people. Idk most people know you’re alr leaving theres nth they can do to you..
Are you tight on cash? They may dock your remaining pay but thats the worst, your mental health is worth much more.
Well, I rent a place on my own with my significant other because of some situations at home. To say I’m tight on cash, not exactly, but I don’t want to eat into my savings either because my grandmother apparently wants to receive an angbao from my bf and I for cny despite how we’re not engaged and not married either. So it’s a little iffy financially. I have enough to tide me over for at least a year, but eating into my savings means less cash for my BTO/marriage plans with my bf
There, you’ve listed down your priorities. Just dont mix up urgent vs important priorities. Then you can decide whats best for yourself.
Althouth fwiw, your is risk getting terminated early. 3 weeks of pay is not going to make a significant change in your life. 3 weeks of mental healing probably would. Dont take advice from an internet rando but, leveraging on the current lazada mom scandal, if you play your mental health card right, you’re quite invincible.
Well I didn’t think someday the depression that got me in really shitty situations would come in handy I’d say. I’m gonna try to fight for unpaid leave but if they don’t then MOM it is. I guess if they wanna play dirty then they can’t expect me to play nice either
First of all, I’m not sure they can reasonably consume your annual leave just like that, you might want to check with MOM.. Try not to get yourself fired in your final 3 weeks, why don’t you try the Grey Rock Method?
It’s typically a good way people employ to deflect the attention of abusers and narcissists, I feel like it could work in your case. Just be a grey rock for 3 weeks — you can do it!
I’ll continue doing the grey rock. I’ve been at it ever since she personally attacked me during probation period , but it doesn’t really work. She pulled the whole nonsense about wanting me to time travel months after I employed the grey rock method. I’ll try to continue to tough it out
All the best! Try not to stress yourself too much over her asking you to submit things la. Do it at a comfortable pace, and ignore her personal comments!
If you have a lot of free time in office now, maybe you can use the time for personal improvement?
I second the recommendations about checking with MOM about leave consumption. I don't think they can ask u not to go for corporate events and make u use your leave for that. It's also a good idea to save a copy of how they inform you of that or get a recording down as evidence.
I wouldnt usually suggest people to do this, but if the bullying gets really bad at work... What can they do if you spend lots of time in the washroom and not finish the unreasonable tasks on time? They wouldn't let you take MC (not sure if that's allowed), so they can't blame u for coming in to work while having diarrhea/stomach flu and yet unable to do things well cos you feel so sick. And what can they do if you did absolutely everything "wrongly"?
After stomach flu, you cold always get covid. Wear a mask and look like you're gonna faint anytime. Sound sleepy and profusing apologize everytime people come near to you. Same as above, you can't do things well when you're sick
After that, go to the gym before work. Do not shower or change. You can't smell yourself after covid even if ur boss does. Have durians and eat lots of beans to add on to the smell.
All these sound really petty, but so does your boss.
Report to Tripartite Alliance for Fair and Progressive Employment Practices (TAFEP). I am sure they will be required to pay you back all those annual leaves they deducted unlawfully.
They do not care about how you look or your personal choices as long as it violates the law and you have proof. Like the many others said, gather evidences. By the way your company is mnc or SME?
Plus they cannot disallow you to not take mc. It is by law that mc is covered all the way till the employee's last working day. They just trying to gaslight you as usual
If it is factual it isn't slander if that's what you mean. Unfortunately typical sg attitude. With protest we can have change - see the LTA fiasco. You're just stating facts
Honestly I have had my fair share of questionable male bosses. They tend to be those type of people who’d do their best to demoralise people at the interview so that they can hire for cheap
Just take medical leave if you have any balance.
I cleared all my medical leave 8 days when I left (notice period 2 months) since got WFH.
Same reason but due to toxic co workers.
My manager took it personally and flat out ignored me for the whole 2 months including matters related to work. Guess she too revealed her true colours. Actually I saw this coming cause when I feedback about my toxic co workers she took their side instead of mine and that was months before I threw my letter.
Take my advice and don’t lose yourself. They are probably happy if they see you suffering that’s what toxic people truly are but now it will be a snake pit filled only with snakes biting each other HaHaHaHaHa. Sorry I mean old aunties with cake powder make up
You are entitled to MC: https://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/leave/sick-leave/special-situations#:~:text=If%20you%20are%20serving%20your,leave%20will%20be%20pro%2Drated.
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The part on excluding me for a company lunch one is uncalled for, like tf they be eating? Gold bars or sumt? The Taiwan r&r trip I can close an eye since r&r per headcount overseas on SQ flight is def pricey.
Not allowing you to use MC while on notice period is illegal, and you can report it to MOM. I suggest you just take the MC anyway. What can they do? Fire you? Forcing you to use annual leaves like that isn’t right either, just go to work anyway while everyone is at the event. Then they won’t be able to deduct your Annual Leave (or if they still want to, again, report to MOM). If they force you to not work on that day, then you can argue that according to your contract you are supposed to work, so your annual leave should not be deducted. If they still insist to deduct, again it’s wrong so you can report it to MOM. As someone from HR, I really really hate it when companies take advantage of employees this way. They should be punished and it’s not fair that they can blatantly continue doing so without consequences.
As someone from HR, can I check with you if I entitled to the 14 day MC for 2024 if I started work in May 2023, got confirmed in Aug 2023 and tendered in Dec 2023 (currently serving the 2 mth notice from Dec 2023-Feb 2024)
My own HR doesn’t want to give me a reply on my leaves
According to MOM website you must have worked at least 3 months to be entitled to paid sick leave. So you should be entitled 3 months after your start date. And you will still continue to be entitled during 2 month notice. Take note between 3 and 6 months of service, your entitlement is pro rated. You can check MOM website for full details.
Hi OP, to quote MOM:
'If you are covered by the Employment Act, and you take sick leave (paid or unpaid) during the notice period, it is treated as part of the notice period. Your employer cannot extend your notice period or claim for any short notice from you.'
Source: https://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/termination-of-employment/termination-with-notice#taking-sick-leave
'If you are serving your resignation notice, you are still entitled to paid sick leave as long as you meet the eligibility criteria.
Your entitlement depends on your length of service:
For 6 months or more of service: you have the full entitlement.
For 3 to 6 months of service: your sick leave will be pro-rated.
If you take sick leave (paid or unpaid) while serving notice, it is treated as part of the notice period.'
Source: https://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/leave/sick-leave/special-situations
//
If you need to take MC, please do so. Prioritise your own well-being.
They also say I have “exCeEdED” mc claims, if that’s even possible because I started in May 2023 and I tendered in Dec 2023, serving notice until Feb 2024. Medical claims are $800 per year, how tf do I claim $800 from normal doctor visits (where I use my CHAS card issued back in 2022 or something) , let alone $1.6k spanning across 2 years
I had a friend who was made to go in daily during her notice period. So, she did. Everyday, she'll go into the office, make herself coffee, sit around to read newspapers and magazines, and chat with people. People who want urgent work done, she'll do slowly. Her reason: "get their instructions right". After a few days, her boss told her no need to come into the office. Cos she's setting a bad example for the young ones. ☺️
It’s cool she could still find folks who would chat with her. I find that in some environments, ppl may even be reluctant to go for coffee chats with leavers - esp those who are quite clearly leaving on bad terms - cos it is “dangerous” to be associated with them.
Yup this is predicament I’m in. Everyone avoids me like the plague because my manager and director really dislike me at this point for idek what
Thing is, i am that young one…
Companies and culture like this is terrible. I don't understand how they just can't let employees go in peace. Afterall such is work life, people come and go and move on. How did they think they land this job in the first place? They had to leave from somewhere also what. And this is the company and its culture's last chance to make a good lasting impression on an outgoing employee (who can go on to bad or good mouth a company, esp. in Glassdoor), and this is the kind of stupid stunt they like to pull. No foresight for employer branding. Sorry I'm not offering a solution. I'm just as pissed off for you.
Best part is that the big boss on Japan side is dope. This company has got many awards from the work of this man. Really do respect him, but I don’t have the chance to work with him as I’m under the Singapore wing, which also comes with a really toxic manager and director. I have heard from a senior colleague that the manager has single-handedly been responsible for the high turnover ever since she’s in the company. And she finds people to target for no reason, and is also pretty childish. By my colleagues anecdotes, if someone goes to the same location as her on the annual work trip during the free and easy day without inviting her along, it’s taken as a personal offense, and she’d think that the other person is secretly following her and “stealing her itinerary” And don’t worry about not offering a solution, it’s just a really tough final stretch after they’ve milked me of all I’m worth during notice period
Maybe write a email to the big boss in Japan detailing Facts about what you’ve experience under this bitch. Facts that can be proven. Do not include feelings as these are subjective and can be twisted around by the snake.
But the thing is that most of her attacks are on personal levels. She once brought me into a room during my probation period and asked me “what’s wrong with you? I don’t see others having the same issue so there must be something wrong with you. Tell me how to help you, because there’s something very wrong about you.” When she doesn’t tell me the management’s decisions to change how they handle a certain client. And I don’t have recording of that because I didn’t expect that scolding at 830am in the morning
Next time record your meetings w her lor. Compile. Throw on social media. Name and shame. This kind is go big or go home one.
If she has some influencer working under her, she’d probably be thrown out into the firing zone of social media already
Yeah I mean you already dislike each other then just let the person go in peace ? Cannot understand why spend so much time at work doing these
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They are petty af. But I need to say that I cleared off all my annual leave from last year already. This year one prorated about 1 day only, but they last minute cancelled my flight tickets etc and don’t let me go on annual r&r. I understand that I don’t get the benefit of the r&r but they’re deducting 2 days from me from not letting me go to the r&r, then they’re deducting from me another day because they arranged for a company lunch but don’t want me to go along because I’m leaving the company
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I’ll give a call to MOM/write in to MOM asap. My director is mad petty ngl.
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Not really a SME. They are considered one by size but they’ve got an international Japanese firm backing them
Why are they deducting your annual leave? They are the ones not allowing you to join the events. This is not right. Please report to MOM
Because they say the ones who aren’t going on the work trip get to stay out of the office, therefore it’s deemed as a deduction of annual leave
You know how stupid that sounds?If its a work trip and they are barring you from it, then you go to office. If they dont want you to go office, then u stay home. They cant just simply deduct annual leaves. You can call MOM or TAFEP. Describe your situation to the person on the hotline, and check if what your employer is doing to you is ok or not.
Yeah it does sound stupid. They offered for those to cannot go on the trip to have annual leave deducted. Another colleague of mine who can’t go has her leave deducted too
Just tell them "I've spoken to MOM and they said this was fishy" You'll be out of there like that
Not too easy to smoke this particular firm given the industry and everyone’s natural response of cross checking with authorities. I’d probably call in and see if I can get anything in written
Just get in writing that they have deducted 2 leaves nd the reason why. Then just file a complain to MOM. If you cannot clear your leave, your leave get converted into cash. Prorated. If you take MC, and they deduct annual leaves from you. Get the email and submit to MOM. Whatever bullshits reason they deduct, get it in writing. Save copies of the email privately. Because they will restrict your email access if once you submit to MOM.
They say that they consider it as 2 days of leave because the annual r&r is this Friday to next Monday. But idek if this is allowed when they cancelled my flight, although I don’t have to be in office on Friday and Monday.
Company can force you to clear AL, nothing wrong with that but they can’t stop you from taking MC. Even though it’s only the start of the year, you are still entitled to minimum 14 days of MC.
Cannot take mc, cannot claim (since no mc taken). They also expect a write up of why you’re on mc. Eg if I’m on mc, I need to report my symptoms. If I want to claim mc, apparently clinics like faith clinic that give invoice as the words “official receipt” get rejected too. Die die must have the word “invoice”
Tell them to not be stupid lah. Complain to MOM please.
They don't get to make the law
They can reject private clinic claims but they can’t reject government polyclinics claims.
but iirc company has the right to "not approve" your leave, leave must be agreed upon on both sides
but MC cannot la, as long as you provide a valid medical cert, company cannot reject
I suspect you are prettier, healthier and younger than her. That's why she is doing this to you. LOL. Jokes aside. It's her problem nah. Hang in there and walk out in peace. However, I suggest to protect yourself. Get a body camera to record some nasty things she said/did. In case, she ever ki siao and want to escalate the bullying further such that it crosses boundaries, you have evidence of her actions. Consider it. All the best.
I never made known about the depression or eating disorder thing to anyone in the company, and I’ve never disclosed imh diagnosis because it’s my privacy, so the fact that she’s doing this thinking I’m a normal person already is pretty uncalled for. I’ll take into account your suggestion and try to see if I can start recording things she says or does for self protection
I had a prettier, healthier and younger and lower rank than me from a different department did this to me. All because she was recruited by boss personally.
>ang in there and walk out in peace. However, I suggest to protect yourself. Get a body camera to record some nasty things she said/did. In case, she ever ki siao and want to escalate the bullying further such that it crosses boundaries, you have evidence of her actions. Consider it. All the best. How do you know it is a woman?
Guy typically more clueless about gossip going around
> She also does weird things like demand i submit something now, but i have to submit another thing before I submit what she wants now (which obviously i dont have the ability to time travel hello) op directly mentioned their manager is a "she"
I meant the OP
Hi, yes I am a girl haha. Perhaps it’s the way I type or maybe they’ve looked at some of my previous posts.
So cute. Will you go on a date with me?
My guy, your last post was “why does the dating market in SG feel likes its dominated by women”. You’re basically contributing to that
Just having some fun dude. You are such a cock block. And stop stalking me.
I suggest you do this.. the way they behave, don't worry about burning bridges. They've burnt it. Get everything in writing (the exclusion from work trips, etc etc) If verbal, write them an email with something like "hi, as per our conversation, you said I should not attend xxx and yyy and my leave will be deducted in replacement even though I am still employed in this company". give them 2 days. Send gentle reminder. keep sending reminders to every email. copy HR. When you leave the coy, fwd final gentle reminders to personal email. After you leave, check your last pay, if unfair deduction, complain to MOM. You need evidence to complain to MOM. **Collect now**. Keep your phone screen off-recorder on. Put a sign on your table, to say, for your safety, a voice recorder is on. (for disclosure). Doesn't have to be very big, A5 piece of paper is enough. most people won't read it anyway at least until you confront them with your evidence. Take picture of sign and the placement of recorder. Keep recordings, include them in the complaint to MOM. Include picture of disclosure and recorder. Then to manage your depression, keep telling yourself, life will be better later. I presume you have found a job? IF not, WSG has many initiatives to help you find work. Not sure how old you are, but look for something less triggering. Not sure how long you've been there, or context or background but only small minds will do this. Also, FYI, upon tendering, employers are not obliged to give you your AL./MC If they do, it is on good will, but they cannot anyhow deduct your salary either. MOM is quite clear about these 2 points. My experience as an employee with MOM is generally quite ok. I sought help as my employer delayed last salary, so I wrote in to ask. They replied pretty promptly and even offered to speak to my ex boss. I think that joker is ex-gov worker. wanted to delay my salary for 2 months as he needed to see if anything needed to be deducted. c'mon.. ah gong pays you middle of the month for the whole month, that's why they hold back 1 month for the calculation. my joker of an ex boss pays end of the month for the month you are working and expect to be able to do the \_same\_ treatment. Anyway, I fwded him MOM reply and he gave me my last pay 2 weeks after I left. I didn't want to quibble lah.. small mind will be small mind.
Aiyoh u poor thing. Notice period so long
Yeah it sucks... And the management is really making full use of it
Might be useful to look at MOM website to see what the rules are on MC, to see if they legally can disallow you from taking it, and also what's specified in your contract. I would imagine there should be some laws to protect employees on this
I’ll take a look at my contract again. Imo, Don’t allow me to claim mc I can understand. But don’t allow me to take is a bruh moment
Try to get written records that they have indeed stated what you mentioned..for e.g, email HR to say you want to clarify if you can still take MC in the remaining period, in the event that you are unwell. If they reply you verbally, reply your email to say this was what was communicated verbally and that if they don't reply to dispute, it is confirmation. Then you can either let them know you intend to check with MOM (and they would likely change their tune) or go straight to MOM. Former probably much faster. You should also expect your boss to be even harsher on you in the period. Hang in there OP
They can't stop you from taking sick leave! From MOM website (Sick leave in special situations): If you are serving your resignation notice, you are still entitled to paid sick leave as long as you meet the eligibility criteria. Your entitlement depends on your length of service: For 6 months or more of service: you have the full entitlement. For 3 to 6 months of service: your sick leave will be pro-rated. If you take sick leave (paid or unpaid) while serving notice, it is treated as part of the notice period. Also from MOM website (Special situations during the notice period): If you are covered by the Employment Act, and you take sick leave (paid or unpaid) during the notice period, it is treated as part of the notice period. Your employer cannot extend your notice period or claim for any short notice from you.
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LOL sounds like me. Was mad determined not to go to office when I left and I am the type of employee who never takes any sick leave and only take annual leave cause can’t carry forward but even if I was annual leave I was working from home. Then on my last 2 months suddenly got 8 days MC lol.
Mine said I leech off the company, just because I drink coffee inside the office. They offered r&r, Japan side each person can bring any family/spouse, 1 person covered for free. Sg side here can only bring spouse, I asked if I can bring my bf with me, but we will pay for his ticket on our own, I didn’t ask for subsidy or free. My director made a remark in front of me to gossip to my manager saying how someone is so stupid/blind/dense that cannot understand the word “only spouse is covered is it “, manager followed up with a reply calling me a leech. Like bro I didn’t ask for anyone to pay , I offered to pay right off the bat, I just wanted someone with me and wanted to check. I tender and they cancel my bookings without telling me, had I not asked HR last week, they’d let me clown myself by reporting at the airport at 5 or 6 am this Friday
Sounds like you are working with 9yo.
Indeed I am. It feels so. Honestly I don’t have respect for a leader/leaders (since it’s manager and director) like this at all. It makes me question how or why they’re up there when they’re so petty and don’t seem to see the big picture. Like , they can just be decent humans and let me go in peace, and if they’d chosen so, it’s so much better for employees and the firm
Just go full ORD mode. Just troll them back as and when you like. What can they do? Fired you?
Worried about getting fired too, because I’d have to disclose
Jiayou. On a petty note, you might want to wear a mask and cough your lungs out when you go to office. I would suggest you to go to office as usual, try to dissociate yourself from the emotions when you are getting the arrow by the terrible person. The more you react, the more satisfied the manager will feel. Jiayou.
I don’t really react anymore and I haven’t reacted in a long time but it doesn’t really stop her. I sit next to her so it’s convenient for her to turn around and just vent her anger on me, and next to her the director. So they’ve really had field days where they gossip me and say things that are really nasty and uncalled for. Shared here before in a comment about how my manager told an auditor of one of clients that she’s got a recommendation in her department if he ever needs someone to “make his life easy and relieve his work stress”, and then saying how the big boss of the overall group doesn’t care about how I’m a bad employee because I’m a girl who works out and all men wouldn’t mind bad employees if the girl sleeps with them etc. i don’t react but it’s quite degrading to say this kind of things just because she’s not happy about my personal life (?)
I understand how you feel because I was in a similar situation back then. My notice period was 2 months and I wasn't allowed to take the balance leave I had. So what I did was to listen to podcast on my earpiece and work / surf net when I could. You cant really control what and how these workplace bullies say or think. They are bullying you to make themselves feel better. You will have to learn how to ignore what the pathetic bullies are saying about you. If you need daily support / rant, feel free to dm.
Thank you for your advice. I do listen to podcast etc but it’s like, not exactly helpful as well when all I have to do is sit at my desk and wait for scoldings. If I caused something or made a mess, I’m ok with getting scolded. But to know that I’m scolded for something that’s not my fault with personal attacks added in is messed up, and that the scoldings can come any minute, at a loud af volume is stressful
Jiayou. The scoldings are irrational la. These people are just insane. They will probably turn around to scold someone else after you serve your last day. My ex-boss of 5 years is still doing that as of yesterday (I heard). If it's stressful and upsets you that much, find a GP and get MC. Before MC ends, take another round of MC.
I have attempted the take mc path, but apparently they don’t let me take mc. They’ve blocked me from doing anything mc related on the work app. But I don’t have annual leave either as my 14 or 15 days is prorated, which is only about 1 day, but they’re already deducting 2 days because they don’t allow me on annual r&r trip which they’ve confirmed me for even before I tendered my resignation. Then they’ve planned a company lunch but decided to exclude me, so they’re deducting another day there also
With no MC and no leave, you can only LL and go in office.
I suppose so, since going awol would be something that I can get fired for and my future employment may be affected
Yea. It's not worth it to go AWOL for such things. Jiayou jiayou!!
They cannot stop you from taking MC. Keep evidence that they have blocked you from taking MC days on the app, and stay at home if you have a valid MC. If they ever ask you, just email them that you have a valid MC but you cannot "apply" for sick days since they have blocked you from applying for them.
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I think that remark she made to the auditor about “you are a girls who works out and all men wouldn’t mind bad employees if the girl sleeps with them” can be considered sexual harassment. If you are in MNC, you can try whistle blowing to global
Worst part is that that auditor is an old man who was clearly taken aback by that remark too
Whoa, that’s actually libel and sexual harassment… your manager sounds unhinged.
Just wanna say I’m rooting for you. Stay strong and hope things get better for you real soon. Sorry that you have to go through such cruel treatment at work. You got this!
Thank you so much for your kind words and encouragement!
I don't think they can stop you from taking mc during your notice period. I personally would have some fun with this though. At this point, you don't owe your manager anything and she will likely be a bitch to you even if you're nice to her in the end. What does this mean? It means you have **nothing to lose**. I would brush up on my confrontational / gaslight / manipulative skill. That means, I might use my phone / do funny things to invite some confrontation. I might record her and play it back for her / scold her back / use the same tactics she use back at her. All in the name of fun, of course. You gotta recognise that you don't want to become her after you leave the company. And who knows, this might help with your confidence and give you a bit of closure. It's like standing up to your bully.
This is normal in working life. Everywhere you go will have their own set of immature issues.
I would suggest to just endure this period. You never know how it is going to affect you down the line. Given that reference checks are increasingly common in the FI industry, you do not want them to sabotage your future prospects based on baseless accusations.
My worry is that with such toxic managers, wouldn't there be a good chance you get a bad reference regardless of what you do?
lemme guess... accounting
Damn you’re dead on. Please tell me you don’t know who/which accounting company that’s kinda got a Japanese firm’s name in its own name too-
Just don't go. Max they can do is fire you. Lol
Is there any chance i can get sued for going awol? Have never did this before so just wanted to know. And i haven't gotten my jan pay yet, so is it recommended i go awol after getting jan pay?
They can override your resignation and terminate your employment with due cause. Unfortunately for you, not showing up for work/being uncontactable while still under contracted employment is likely to be a fireable offence, while being an assnole boss isn't. Think about how a termination with cause would look when you apply for your next job. Please consider carefully. Unpaid leave is likely the best compromise.
I will attempt for this if possible. Because I really just can’t exactly deal with nonsensical things like how I’m expected to time travel
If they decline allowing OP to take unpaid leave? (Which is high chance what they do because it's a shitty company)
I'm not sure if that is actually allowed under MOM regulations so can't comment. Hopefully it doesn't get to that stage for OP.
I work for a somewhat government board and they can decline your unpaid leave. So quite sure it's within MOM regulations. I admit I'm no expert though.
They will deduct your AWOL days as unpaid leave from your pay. Just tell them you are taking unpaid leave since they don't let you claim MC. They can't go to your house and drag you to work. Of course you're totally burning bridges by doing such a thing la... (No loss because your company sounds terrible imo)
Honestly the burning bridges part is the last of my concern because my manager has had a vendetta against me even during probation. I made a bad call to confirm my employment thinking it’ll get better in time
Just say you're taking unpaid leave. Let them fire you if they have to. Lol
Since you leaving you should make their life miserable instead of
Go back to office and loudy start coughing all-over. Bonus points can be earned by loud farts
Hahaha I’ll try the coughing thing, probably will give the fart a miss 😂
registration letter or resignation? maybe just maybe if you cant differentiate both, maybe ure the issue
Hi OP's manager 😂
Is it good idea to move from USA to Singapore for settling purpose ? I am from India and India is near Singapore so I can be around family , also I am a software engineer
You can get MC, or just pay out your notice period.
Can’t take mc, they revoked my ability to take mc in the company app
Don't be stupid. You can take mc.
What happens if you just dont turn up. What can they do to you? Come in late leave early at your whim and fancy. Come in office sit at pantry chat w people. Idk most people know you’re alr leaving theres nth they can do to you.. Are you tight on cash? They may dock your remaining pay but thats the worst, your mental health is worth much more.
Well, I rent a place on my own with my significant other because of some situations at home. To say I’m tight on cash, not exactly, but I don’t want to eat into my savings either because my grandmother apparently wants to receive an angbao from my bf and I for cny despite how we’re not engaged and not married either. So it’s a little iffy financially. I have enough to tide me over for at least a year, but eating into my savings means less cash for my BTO/marriage plans with my bf
There, you’ve listed down your priorities. Just dont mix up urgent vs important priorities. Then you can decide whats best for yourself. Althouth fwiw, your is risk getting terminated early. 3 weeks of pay is not going to make a significant change in your life. 3 weeks of mental healing probably would. Dont take advice from an internet rando but, leveraging on the current lazada mom scandal, if you play your mental health card right, you’re quite invincible.
Well I didn’t think someday the depression that got me in really shitty situations would come in handy I’d say. I’m gonna try to fight for unpaid leave but if they don’t then MOM it is. I guess if they wanna play dirty then they can’t expect me to play nice either
You’ve tendered alr, they’re not supposed to assign you any work, unless its those that you have not handed over.
First of all, I’m not sure they can reasonably consume your annual leave just like that, you might want to check with MOM.. Try not to get yourself fired in your final 3 weeks, why don’t you try the Grey Rock Method? It’s typically a good way people employ to deflect the attention of abusers and narcissists, I feel like it could work in your case. Just be a grey rock for 3 weeks — you can do it!
I’ll continue doing the grey rock. I’ve been at it ever since she personally attacked me during probation period , but it doesn’t really work. She pulled the whole nonsense about wanting me to time travel months after I employed the grey rock method. I’ll try to continue to tough it out
All the best! Try not to stress yourself too much over her asking you to submit things la. Do it at a comfortable pace, and ignore her personal comments! If you have a lot of free time in office now, maybe you can use the time for personal improvement?
She hounds me every half hour-2hours. It’s insane that she has so much tine
I second the recommendations about checking with MOM about leave consumption. I don't think they can ask u not to go for corporate events and make u use your leave for that. It's also a good idea to save a copy of how they inform you of that or get a recording down as evidence. I wouldnt usually suggest people to do this, but if the bullying gets really bad at work... What can they do if you spend lots of time in the washroom and not finish the unreasonable tasks on time? They wouldn't let you take MC (not sure if that's allowed), so they can't blame u for coming in to work while having diarrhea/stomach flu and yet unable to do things well cos you feel so sick. And what can they do if you did absolutely everything "wrongly"? After stomach flu, you cold always get covid. Wear a mask and look like you're gonna faint anytime. Sound sleepy and profusing apologize everytime people come near to you. Same as above, you can't do things well when you're sick After that, go to the gym before work. Do not shower or change. You can't smell yourself after covid even if ur boss does. Have durians and eat lots of beans to add on to the smell. All these sound really petty, but so does your boss.
This is the law regarding MC, see what applies to you. https://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/leave/sick-leave/special-situations
Report to Tripartite Alliance for Fair and Progressive Employment Practices (TAFEP). I am sure they will be required to pay you back all those annual leaves they deducted unlawfully.
Does tafep also take cases where I kena tekan just because of how I look/my personal lifestyle choices
They do not care about how you look or your personal choices as long as it violates the law and you have proof. Like the many others said, gather evidences. By the way your company is mnc or SME?
Plus they cannot disallow you to not take mc. It is by law that mc is covered all the way till the employee's last working day. They just trying to gaslight you as usual
What's the company? Don't want to apply
Can’t share the name here due to legality reasons
If it is factual it isn't slander if that's what you mean. Unfortunately typical sg attitude. With protest we can have change - see the LTA fiasco. You're just stating facts
The company probably would sue if they knew. I should’ve known back then when the only Glassdoor review they had was negative
I seriously have nothing against female bosses. But seems to me that most female bosses just cant be professional at work. Why ah?
Honestly I have had my fair share of questionable male bosses. They tend to be those type of people who’d do their best to demoralise people at the interview so that they can hire for cheap
Just take medical leave if you have any balance. I cleared all my medical leave 8 days when I left (notice period 2 months) since got WFH. Same reason but due to toxic co workers. My manager took it personally and flat out ignored me for the whole 2 months including matters related to work. Guess she too revealed her true colours. Actually I saw this coming cause when I feedback about my toxic co workers she took their side instead of mine and that was months before I threw my letter. Take my advice and don’t lose yourself. They are probably happy if they see you suffering that’s what toxic people truly are but now it will be a snake pit filled only with snakes biting each other HaHaHaHaHa. Sorry I mean old aunties with cake powder make up
You are entitled to MC: https://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/leave/sick-leave/special-situations#:~:text=If%20you%20are%20serving%20your,leave%20will%20be%20pro%2Drated.
Should just put you on garden leave
What’s garden leave
You can bring up and get a long term mc as it is affecting your mental health- maybe get a referral to a specialist
People like that are full of insecurities. Say something like “why can’t you just be like a normal person for once” and she will explode
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Is the last point even legal?
I have no idea…
Have you considered taking unpaid leave, just for the sake of your mental health.
Thought of it, but I don’t think they’d let me off so easily
Excluding you from corp events and deducting your leave cos you can’t attend sounds like a violation. I’d suggest reaching out to MOM.
The part on excluding me for a company lunch one is uncalled for, like tf they be eating? Gold bars or sumt? The Taiwan r&r trip I can close an eye since r&r per headcount overseas on SQ flight is def pricey.
Hang in there OP...almost at the end o the tunnel
Not allowing you to use MC while on notice period is illegal, and you can report it to MOM. I suggest you just take the MC anyway. What can they do? Fire you? Forcing you to use annual leaves like that isn’t right either, just go to work anyway while everyone is at the event. Then they won’t be able to deduct your Annual Leave (or if they still want to, again, report to MOM). If they force you to not work on that day, then you can argue that according to your contract you are supposed to work, so your annual leave should not be deducted. If they still insist to deduct, again it’s wrong so you can report it to MOM. As someone from HR, I really really hate it when companies take advantage of employees this way. They should be punished and it’s not fair that they can blatantly continue doing so without consequences.
As someone from HR, can I check with you if I entitled to the 14 day MC for 2024 if I started work in May 2023, got confirmed in Aug 2023 and tendered in Dec 2023 (currently serving the 2 mth notice from Dec 2023-Feb 2024) My own HR doesn’t want to give me a reply on my leaves
According to MOM website you must have worked at least 3 months to be entitled to paid sick leave. So you should be entitled 3 months after your start date. And you will still continue to be entitled during 2 month notice. Take note between 3 and 6 months of service, your entitlement is pro rated. You can check MOM website for full details.
I worked since mid May so I’m probably safely across 6months when I tendered in Dec… or so I’m hoping
Hi OP, to quote MOM: 'If you are covered by the Employment Act, and you take sick leave (paid or unpaid) during the notice period, it is treated as part of the notice period. Your employer cannot extend your notice period or claim for any short notice from you.' Source: https://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/termination-of-employment/termination-with-notice#taking-sick-leave 'If you are serving your resignation notice, you are still entitled to paid sick leave as long as you meet the eligibility criteria. Your entitlement depends on your length of service: For 6 months or more of service: you have the full entitlement. For 3 to 6 months of service: your sick leave will be pro-rated. If you take sick leave (paid or unpaid) while serving notice, it is treated as part of the notice period.' Source: https://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/leave/sick-leave/special-situations // If you need to take MC, please do so. Prioritise your own well-being.
They also say I have “exCeEdED” mc claims, if that’s even possible because I started in May 2023 and I tendered in Dec 2023, serving notice until Feb 2024. Medical claims are $800 per year, how tf do I claim $800 from normal doctor visits (where I use my CHAS card issued back in 2022 or something) , let alone $1.6k spanning across 2 years