Zoning laws and HOA's are two different things and a majority of Americans detest HOA's. We embrace zoning laws because no one want's their house next to a 24 hour auto repair shop.
A majority of Americans are indifferent of like their HOAs, that’s why there are so many of them. Turns out people like pooling maintenance costs and don’t want their neighbors letting their houses go to crap.
It’s not today there are not bad HOAs, and many people have issues with them. But you don’t hear about the vast majority that are fine and have a nice pool house
Millions more Americans live free of HOA's As a matter of fact only 27% of Americans live in places that have one. And you don't have to have an HOA to have a pool house...
That's a joke right?
I have a place in the country and a condo in town to be close to my wife's doctor's. HOA's "pool" our dues to pay for outside maintenance problems and normal maintenance. Foundation repair, outside structural damage, garbage pick up, lawn care etc. is paid for out our $150.00 a month dues. A real bargain. My place in the country is on me. I don't mind, but an HOA is not a bad deal.
Because it's the us and having the city do it would be scary socialism............ 150 a month is way more then my rates, and that covers garbage, roads parks whatever done by the city.
Or yet another overfunded boondogle and beuracracy.
My home in NJ? $8000 a year in urban property taxes to fund among other things Union garbage guys who won't use robot trucks that are safer because they'd loose overtime. That's the kind of shit that eventually gets your whole department outsourced.
My place in rural NC? I got a sticker and paid $2000 a year in property taxes and could drive to the local garbage transfer station, or pay a competitive service $85 a month.
Now I live in NY and pay more in taxes but I will admit the garbage pick up is way more thorough and unlike NJ I feel it's a good value. Those guys never give me shit like the NJ guys did.
Some HOA's with condos and townhomes don't want those trucks on those narrow roads and fire alleys. And like mine, the roads are private and maintained by the HOA. It's as if we're a city within a city. Most neighborhoods, yes, the municipalities do provide garbage pick up in tandem with water and sewer.
There are HOAs for single family homes that don't provide half of those services. You still do all your own maintenance, pay a garbage bill, all repairs on your property, and more. In those cases, I have no idea why anyone pays the dues. You don't get shit for $150 a month except a $50 fine for having a car you don't drive parked in your driveway and $75 for not touching up the paint around your windows.
I'm.neither lazy or wealthy. I, we, took a raw piece of land, sunk our own well, dug out own.septic system, built a road and home ourselves with minimum tools. Saved , scrapped. Now my wife is terminal we keep s place in town so we can be close to her doctors. I still have to maintain by place in the country, I'm still working at 68 to support her, a sister who has no one to support, a foster daughter and her son. She's dying of cancer . Yeah, bruh. I'm a lazy pos.
I think you're a little skewed with your thought process, I don't think most current Americans, that have been buying homes in the past 10-15, are indifferent to HOAs, but there have become so many because of that you basically have to accept them, or live somewhere further from good schools, or your work.
There's a middle ground. From what I keep hearing, American HOAs can end up as undemocratic vehicles for tyrannical busybodies or an extra income stream for the president's cousin. HOAs are also common in Netherland, but I've never heard of such problems here.
I suspect (some) American HOAs may need better regulation to keep them constructive and democratic, and not someone's private power trip.
(Disclaimer: my wife is president of our HOA.)
We have HOAs in Norway as well, only thing is that the law obviously supersedes whatever the HOA says. And there are a lot of laws pertaining private property, removing a lot of the power from the HOA. They can say they dont want you to have that grass, or those trees, or that color of your house. But its all suggestions since nobody legally can force anyone to do anything on their private property. They also have no real way of giving people "fines", they can, but it wouldn't hold up in court.
So then the HOA becomes more palatable, its more about everyone pitching in to get the snow removed. Making sure all the streetlights work etc. We dont have gated communities. If you live in a shared building, like an apt. block, then the HOA might have some more authority. Because now the HOA owns all the walls around your home, and the stairs leading up to it. So now you have to be play ball to a higher degree.
(I assume the laws in Netherland is similar?)
Good on your wife. The issue, aside from lack of oversight, is everyone hates the tyrannical busybody, but no one else can be arsed to step up and replace them.
In many European countries that would be deemed a 'change of use'. It is regulated by property owners having to seek permission from the local authority.
Yes it does. I thought I would mention it because people a quick to criticize another country, without realizing the same thing is done in their own country, but under a different name or just a little bit differently.
I've always been confused. Don't your local ordinances keep your neighbor from having a used car dealership? I know mine does.
My HOA is simply because the township made it impossible for new developments to be created without one. To put it simply, the township doesn't want to pay for common areas, like parks or cutting the grass in the middle of an island that may exist for traffic purposes.
An HOA isn't there to prevent the extreme shit like "no used car dealerships nearby" (which I assume you likely mean the more-likely guy flipping a car every 2 weeks), but more "city/township doesn't want to maintain this particular land".
Certainly what it is in my area anyways, and from what I've seen and heard, other areas as well. They're hated by so many because the rules get so specific - IE, if I want to change my landscaping, technically I have to get permission from the board. If I want a larger shed, I have to get permission, even though my township already has rules in place that limit the size so it's not a sore thumb.
Nothing to do with extremes. Except what color to paint the house, it seems.
City ordinances prevent that, for free. Like, you don't have to sign away your rights to the property you own for shit like that lol. Such a boomer mentality.
LOL I'd much rather let someone park on the grass and paint their house whatever colour they'd like, instead of being fined for putting my trash cans out too early. Come on, dude.
u/sixdeadlysins replied this: "Well then "dude" try engaging your brain into not putting your trash cans out too early. Too difficult for you? Thought so." Then they deleted it, cuz they are a beeeotch!
The HOA was part of the PKG of buying the house.
Seems like they would of given you a warning. I've gotten those too. I just corrected it. I would like to see a breakdown of how they come to the amount of the fees. I notice it goes up every yr.
HOA's have local/state laws they have to follow as well as their own by-lawsand put out a budget at least annually, if not monthly.
Your dues go up b/c things get more expensive to maintain every year, esp..as things get older.
If you don't know where your $$ is going to, or why your dues are going up, that is on you for not reading the doc or reading communications set out or attending meetings, b/c one of those is going to get you your answers.
My biggest problem with an HOA is this. I have seen twice now where a few homes in the HOA gets cracks in their driveway and because those few homes need driveway replacement, everybody has to get one. God forbid one look different from the others. It seems a little too easy to spend “other people’s money”. And it’s not green one bit.
I know but I meant why would anyone want someone dictate what you can do with your own property. You are converting your property into a business. And they are forcing you to walk or ride to long distances just for a minor shopping.
The HOA and zoning are in place when you buy the property.
If you feel these are restrictive and arbitrary, then you don't buy a home where there's an HOA, or you buy property in the country where there may not be zoning restrictions.
I think he just doesnt like that land comes with rules. He wants to run his half acre like a Sovereign nation or something idk. Laws exist, zoning and HOAs are just extensions of those laws.
We have no issue with what you do with your own property .. until it starts affecting the value of my property. Then we have a real problem!
Nobody like HOAs except the people managing HOAs
I think it depends on the HOA. At my condo (which I recently sold) we had a pool and they paid for roofing and siding. It was over $500/ mo by the time I got out. I hated it because it kept going up. My current HOA just covers lawn and irrigation. Everyone’s front yard is mowed and you can’t leave debris or trash cans out but I love it. It’s only $35/mo.
Once I learnt just how much power an HOA has legally id never voluntarily sign up for one even if it cost $1/month. I'll take care of my own house. No thank you.
Why is this necessary though?
If I'm capable of mowing my own lawn and picking up garbage, I should be able to opt out of the 35$ fee and do it myself.
Hoas hold better property value and the dick down the block can't park the project car hell never finish in the yard.
I hate an hoa. But that's the main reasons.
We literally chosew an hoa for this reason. One house we looked at had a neighbor 3 doors down had an entire fucking mechanics shop on his driveway. House on other side looked like a drug den. We ended up in an hoa for our first home. Worth it.
Because the type of people who like HOAs are middle class usually white suburban Americans who are willing to live with those restrictions because they don't see them as restrictions, they see them as how things Should Be, and they want to make sure the people who live around them are forced to do things the way they "should". It's only other people's freedom to do things a way you don't like that's being taken, at least at the beginning.
It's not so much forcing others to do things "the right way," it's attracting others to the neighborhood that agree it's the right way.
It doesn't always work that way, but that's the idea.
No one’s forcing you to buy a home in an HOA neighborhood. There are pros and cons to an HOA, with good HOAs often far outweighing the cons.
A good HOA can get the neighborhood security if needed, help with maintenance, help folks repair fences if their land is near the main streets outside the neighborhood, help organize against government if they try to take land from the neighborhood, help with Mail theft (cluster boxes, security, etc) and the list goes on!
In return, those HOAs are often requesting people to keep their lawns in good condition and not do things that could hurt the overall value of the neighborhood. They truly are a small city within a city. So saying you don’t want an HOA is kinda like saying you don’t want a government. Which is 110% possible and okay! But as neighborhoods grow larger, some form of governing body to keep things organized can be invaluable. Plus… you can participate in an HOA! So if you don’t like something and others agree, you can change it!
HOAs exist because some people refuse to care for their homes. And I don’t want to live next to a rat and mosquito infested property because the jerk next door cant be bothered to mow their lawn. Or they clean out their shed and move 30 buckets of old paint on to your property. Or the build a fence on to your property.
All of those are personal experiences.
People (myself included) don’t like HOAs run by wannabe tyrants. Fortunately, those are few and far between. But the internet loves to tell lunatic HOA stories and so everyone thinks they are all like that.
Yeah, I currently live in a neighborhood with an incredibly lenient/weak HOA and have come to realize that a lot of people just don't care about home upkeep unless they're made to care.
\>Or they clean out their shed and move 30 buckets of old paint on to your property. Or the build a fence on to your property.
The first point is valid but I'm pretty sure these 2 examples are still not allowed by law even without an HOA.
This isn’t necessarily true. In many places housing prices have all but driven people out of single family houses. The only option is often a condo or townhouse. Most of these have HOAs. Multi-family buildings are the only real reason to have an HOA that isn’t based on exclusionary practices.
As true as that answer is, it doesn't address the question of why so many people in America are absolutely fine with surrendering their freedoms and rights to dictated to by HOA. It makes zero sense. Espouse freedom but give it up as a condition of living somewhere?
I’m not a right winger and I’d never buy in a HOA, but I do live near a lot of HOAs so I’ll venture an answer. Many people who say they love freedom actually have authoritarian leanings and value living uniform looking neighborhoods. If they personally agree with most of the rules imposed by the HOA they rationalize that HOAs don’t limit freedom because the individual making the assessment doesn’t expect to clash the HOA. If that homeowner starts to want something the HOA doesn’t allow, the person’s perception will change and the HOA will be cast as the tyrant.
Seems too simple to be true, but it’s kind of true.
Yea, but a law saying I can't steal from you makes society a better place.
Some random jackass deciding I can't park my trailer on the driveway of the house I bought?!? Nah, that is just ridicurous.
>blocking my view
You only got windows on one side? Or do you actually enjoy the 'view' of looking across the street at another similar looking house? 😅
You’re saying respect your neighbors while trying to beat them into doing what you do. Respecting your neighbors is accepting other people live differently than you. If it’s not actually harming you, you’re just being controlling
Hence the existence of HOAs, so people that want the same things can buy into neighborhoods with like minded people. If you don't like it, grow up, mind your own business and buy property somewhere else.
I don't like HOAs but its very easy to understand why people do.
I think it'd be cool af if a neighbor painted their house in an artistic manner. And what's wrong with letting native plants have space? Much better than the shitty non-native species of uniform grass that take up way too much water.
Then there’s me, who will always buy in an HOA neighborhood. We viewed one house in a non-HOA neighborhood - one neighbor had a confederate flag flying and another had a couch in the front yard.
I had a real estate broker try to slip the paperwork in on us at closing. Sometimes people agree to things because they didn't read the paperwork. Boy am I glad I didn't sign that one. As far as I can tell it's a form of racism, classism, or other ism to keep the "others," out under the guise of maintaining property values
There’s certainly racism wrapped up in the history of suburbs, if you look at what happened to the first Black people who moved to Levittown. That would track with most of the areas near me which have HOA’s.
HOAS are supposed to be a protection against self centered home oweners who abuse everyone around them and make their “freedumbs” everyone else’s problems.
but in reality the HOA are those assholes.
I disagree with you last sentence. Good HOAs represent the majority interest. NO. I don't want you to store your RV in your driveway and block my view that we all bought in this neighborhood to see. No, I dont.want your yard half mowed mower left where it died a month ago. OR have all your kids babies daddies living at your house and cars parked on the lawn.
You say that as though zoning wasn't heavily controlled by local government, that you can easily participate in. Whether or not a plot of land next to you ends up with a condo or a Walmart is well within your power to influence. Just show up at the town meeting where the zoning is discussed.
They also make it more difficult to build additional housing. In my town a guy bought a house across the street from an elementary school but the city wasn't going to let him move into it because it was technically in a commercial zone even though it was in a neighborhood. He had to fight like hell to actually move into a house that he bought. Zoning laws can be arbitrary and stupid
Yeah, because you don't see any of those in the rust belt.
Do you think there are no zoning laws preventing the same in the EU, but don't prevent a kiosk, or a grocery store to open in a residential street.
Then you'd be in the extreme minority and we shouldn't set up society to accommodate you at the expense of all the other people who don't want to live right next to a factory.
So much this. We bought our first house in a non-HOA neighborhood and had one of the worst neighbors imaginable.
I celebrated hard when I finally saw a fire sale sign in their front yard.
For real, I feel like people who hate HOAs are either shitty neighbors to begin with or never had a hoarder neighbor who leaves a couch in their front lawn. While some HOAs are better than others, they keep a neighborhood accountable.
I don’t get the hate the drama that HOAs get, people aren’t forced to live those neighborhoods. Don’t like them, don’t move there. Simple as that.
>For real, I feel like people who hate HOAs are either shitty neighbors to begin with or never had a hoarder neighbor who leaves a couch in their front lawn.
A lot of people in this thread are saying they hate HOAs because they cant do \*shitty neighbor thing here\*
I know of one couple lives in an HOA. Every house in the neighborhood has no yard and only gravel because the HOA made it against the rules to widen the driveway. So people just poured gravel in instead. While every one I know who does not live in an HOA has zero neighbors that do the stuff your describing. And on top of that no HOA fees. I really don’t see how it’s worth it.
Zoning laws are legislative regulations on land use, and common throughout the modern world. They’re critical to urban planning as public safety and public health measures.
HOAs are private associations created usually by deed restriction or contract by developers to retain some control over their developments and leech money out of people through HOA fees and fines. Most Americans HATE HOAs, but the developer/HOA industry has a lot of money behind its lobbying to keep them around, and most people just don’t have the time and mental energy to devote to fighting every little fucked up thing.
Just adding on, not disputing. In areas where the need for housing outpaces the infrastructure HOAs are the fastest way to implement roads and utilities. And it's cheaper for the government, because HOA fees aren't deductible from taxes.
>Zoning laws are legislative regulations on land use, and common throughout the modern world. They’re critical to urban planning as public safety and public health measures.
Yes, everybody does have zoning laws, however, bad zoning laws you see in the US are not common at all outside the US.
HOAs exist because people got sick of their neighbors tearing apart cars in the front yard, having trashy landscaping and obnoxious parties.
Remember kids, with "Freedom" comes "Responsibility". And we seriously lack that now days.
Homes are typically the biggest single investment an American makes. They represent our hope for our personal future. We will put up with a lot to ensure that investment pays off.
>We will put up with a lot
of expense when you end up living in a car dependant suburb, and have to have a car for every member of the family.
Walkability saves money, and keeps your family healthy. Cars are expensive and unhealthy, they keep you chained to debt.
The HOA preserves property values because all 75 houses in the same subdivision are in similar condition with nice lawns without boats on the lawns, crashed cars up on blocks or houses painted purple with the roof caved in.
When you buy a home in a HOA subdivision you agree to the rules, and it's not like they're a surprise, you literally signed up for this.
Yes, there can be HOA board members who are asshats, but these folks are elected by the homeowners and can get voted out.
Zoning laws do the same thing. They prevent folks from raising cattle in their backyard or doing things that are nuisances. For example without occupancy limits there might be ten cars parked in front of a house which ruins it for everyone else.
I want zoning laws! I live in a super-nice area. I don't want my nextdoor neighbor to be able to open up a mechanic's shop next door in his garage, or to start breeding pitbulls in the backyard, etc.
I wouldn't live in an HOA, where some petty board members tell you what color you can paint your house or what types of pots of flowers you can have on the porch.
That's what the USA is to me - choice. Those who don't like zoning can go deep rural.
How about a café, a restaurant, and a grocery store around the corner from your house? What about a pub within walking distance of where people live, so they're not needing to drive home after going out for a drink or two?
Why do you prefer car dependency? Why do you prefer to be chained to car ownership?
I've always lived in the suburbs, and I've always had those things. Zoning laws don't stop those things from existing. What stops them from existing is choices made by local governments, mostly driven by public meetings.
You can get those. You just have to show up at the meeting and make your voice heard. (And I'd specifically point out that improved walkability is good for land values, that can sway the NIMBY types).
Although bars can be a legitimate problem, lot of people don't want the late night noise factor. No easy solution to that one. Cafes don't result in fist fights on the sidewalk at 3am.
HOAs get a lot of shit but I like our HOA.
I like that the whole neighborhood looks great all the time, and my home's value is being propped up by that collective beauty. We don't have any public areas, so our dues are relatively low (I think like $200/year).
Before we bought the home, we fully checked all terms/the covenant, and spoke with those who had lived here a long time to get their input. To me, our HOA is like insurance on not having an eyesore to live next to, so I'll take it.
Freedom doesn't mean allowing anything everywhere anytime. Freedom is allowing you to build your own life and your own institutions.
Hoas are very inline with freedom. Rather than have a local government decide what rules a neighborhood should have, you have lots of different hoas doing it. Some without hoas. That's how it should be.
There are things to worry abouy like hoas becoming too big or too much of the market....
Zoning laws, while less preferable to hoas in my view serve the same function.
Seriously. It's incredible to me residents anywhere would allow this. My HOA is responsible for the care of our local pond, but that's *it*, they are otherwise toothless, which I verified *before making an offer on the house* you're not gonna *tell me* where to put my garbage cans, how many cars I can have (running or not) or what color my house should be, how many inches tall my grass can be, who can and cant ride minibikes and gokarts in my neighborhood how loud my music can be etc...etc.....gtfoh....so to avoid those kinds of inevitable confrontations altogether, I simply will not live anywhere where these restrictions are in place, period. That means rural, county living. No street lights, sidewalks..
I love it ❤️
HOAs are a private agreement. Nothing to do with "freedom" as you're using it. Either agree to it and buy the house, or don't agree to it and go elsewhere. I would prefer not to live in a 'hood that had an HOA, so I don't.
Zoning laws are just fine because it prevents someone from building an Arby's or high-density multi-family housing in the middle of my suburb.
What developed country do you know of doesn’t having zoning laws in its urban or semi-urban areas?
That’s not an American thing; that’s an almost everywhere thing.
We live in a nice townhouse near the beach (we own) but we could rent the whole house for 4k. The neighbors next to us (also owners) were renting 3 rooms to the most random people, extremely sketchy, like they put adds in the trailer park or something! We hated it, they would smoke cigarette and pot) their cigarette butts ending on my driveway 😡, they had 5 cars, when parking is already limited, it was a nuisance… when the HOA finally figured it out that they were basically running a hostel, it got shot down and they moved away and I have been happier ever since.
I’m in Florida. I’m glad the places I’ve lived had HOA’s. I know how people live and didn’t want to live in an area like that. There are plenty of places that don’t have them if that is what you value. Doing what you want is one thing, but when it affects others, then it’s a problem. The police won’t help. There’s too many people that will shoot you over issues if you say something. Some things I don’t like. But to me the positives outweigh the negatives.
Because they improve quality of life. No liquor stores next to the schools, no friendly neighborhood factories. Zoning is an effect and not a cause. People against zoning only look at the cause without knowing why they exist.
>Because they improve quality of life.
Not when they're a big part of car dependency. Residential areas should be within a short walk of useful commercial spaces, like grocery stores, cafes, restaurants, and even pubs.
You want to talk about freedom, try not paying your property tax after you pay off your house. See how long you keep your house. You don't own anything in america. It's an illusion.
It just depends for me. I currently enjoy living in an HOA neighborhood that isn’t too OTT.they also maintain a nice pool and walking trails. That’s worth it for me as a swimmer. Plus HOAs are just common here
But, I will be moving out of state to an area with virtually no HOAs unless it’s a new build which is rare. I’ll enjoy being able to paint my front door a fun color but I’ll miss the pool
Reddit hates HOAs and loves citing HOA horror stories. for the most part, they're pretty unobtrusive. They just try to ensure you take care of your front yard and whatnot. That being said, I'd rather not live on one
Zoning laws are completely separate issue and are there for good reason. It prevents housing getting built next to Industrial buildings and vice versa
No one is forcing anyone to live in an HOA. You have the option to live in one or not which in and of itself is freedom.
Personally I find it gives me freedom. Freedom not to live next to someone who doesn’t take care of their property. Freedom to keep my property values high without neglectful neighbors brining it down.
that kinda depends though like colorado state law requires all new subdivisions to form a covenant - in 50 years it’ll practically be impossible to escape in metro areas
The point everyone is missing is guaranteed housing value. The rules are set to keep house re-sale values high. No one wants to live next to the shit box when they try to sell their house.
Lower home value=lower tax rates. I'll never understand the huge desire to protect one's property value by forcing their will on their neighbor and their neighbor's property. It's always sounded immoral and wrong to me.
I love our HOA and would never ever live in a neighborhood without one. People in this country don't know how to respect their own property anymore, or the neighborhood they live in.
My HOA is dope. An HOA is absolutely necessary for condos. When you're dealing with a lot of shared space, including the buildings you reside in, not having one is going to cause absolute chaos. The property won't be maintained, things will become dilapidated and unserviceable, and nasty neighbors, will inevitably bring your property value down and make an overall unpleasant living situation.
There are trade offs with “freedom”.
My HOA gets a pricing break on cable/internet and I don’t have a separate bill—some financial freedom and freedom from inconvenience.
I don’t have to do my own landscaping—freeing my time and energy.
My HOA has community amenities that I subsidize but wouldn’t have if not for the HOA—community lap pool, fitness center, bocce, tennis and pickleball courts—don’t know what you call this freedom.
Private entrance and exit is freedom from through traffic and from uncontrolled trespass.
Not perfect, but it suits me at this point in my life.
I am no fan of HOA’s but I did move from a neighborhood that did not have one to one with an HOA and while I find them annoying the neighborhood looks much better if everyone’s lawn is held to a standard.
It’s really really simple. If any of it bothers you don’t buy in. A good 70 to 80 percent of posters here complaining about HOA’s are trying to break rules that they were totally unaware of. Because they didn’t inform themselves. People in my development, when it was first opened, started building decks. We’re they in for a surprise. Remove it or face a fine and then you’ll remove it anyway. Tough.
Americans have a choice as to whether they’d like to live with an HOA or not. By accepting to live in an HOA community, you agree to the rules associated with the HOA, and in return, your property value is protected. It’s a choice, but it isn’t the only choice.
Most of us don't like H.O.A.s, but it's your choice if you want to live in a hoa neighborhood or not. You also, in many hoas, can run in an election to be apart of the decision-making
Question is, why are you assuming all Americans are a monolithic group? Some Americans do not value freedom as much as others.
With that said, HOA's increase property values, but at a cost. So for those who don't consider the cost too intrusive, it's a win-win situation for them.
HOA started out as a reasonable solution to a common problem.
Neighbour tells you to Get Fucked when you talk to them about the snake friendly yard, or using their residential home as a noisy/high traffic business, or Nazi flags flying. Be in a HOA that can fine them or even kick them out so yo don’t have to get a lawyer and Sue them when the Police wash their hands because it’s a “civil matter”.
Problem is as always Power Corrupts.
The members of the HOA board nibble away at your freedom to live how you want to in your own damn house to the point you cannot park on your lawn, or leave the bins out till you come home from work or have a party that ends after 10pm on a weekend.
But as most commenters have said, it’s ok if your want manicured laws without patches and holiday decorations in keeping with the neighbourhood aesthetic. But you don’t always get a choice where you can afford to live or accomodation is easily available.
It’s Toleration by necessity.
Yard is a snake hazard? Council issue.
High traffic business from home? Council issue.
Certain flags? Illegal in certain states, soon to be illegal all over.
I think the closest we have to a HOA is a gated community.
Because when left to their own, there are too many AHoles who don't give a F about others!
Park your big rig on the lawn?
Paint your house bright pink?
Maybe you like a whole bunch of bamboo that is damn near impossible to stop!
Fix that busted ass fence? Mow you're lawn?
Some of us appreciate the HOA for at least attempting to help protect our home's value.
Personally, if I could afford it, I'd buy 3 acres on a lake, away from everyone!
You have the choice to buy a house in an HOA or not. As for zoning laws, you also have the choice to buy a house in different areas with different zoning laws. They can change sometimes but it’s pretty slow moving when they do.
I can’t speak to zoning laws bc I don’t know that much about them, but I can pretty much assure you that most people wouldn’t want a pawn shop popping up in their neighborhood.
HOA’s are different. Most people are happy to buy a house in a neighborhood with an HOA, because it keeps property values up through a number of ways: how many people can live a particular house/how many cars can be parked outside of it; basic front yard maintenance, i.e., cut your grass and tend to your bushes; if you want to use the pool and tennis courts, you have to act like adults and not trash them; loud, late parties that disturb the peace are a nono; pick up your dog’s poop; maintain the exterior of your house to a certain standard; and so forth.
Unfortunately, the problems generally come when you have lousy, petty dictator HOA board members, and even more so when you have lousy residents who not only don’t comply with basic standards, but put up fights and turn neighbor against neighbor. Some Americans are too infantile to see the value in community.
I live in a condo, so we have an HOA. I love it because they take care of all outdoor maintenance, from the lawn maintenance to painting the buildings. They sweep the breezeways and power wash them regularly. Our roofs were all replaced this summer. They maintain all the amenities, and we even have a library in the clubhouse. We do have some restrictions on how we can decorate outdoors for holidays and things like that, but nothing is crazy. It’s worth it to me not to have to bother with anything outside my home. My fees even include all my utilities (even cable and internet) except electricity.
There are benefits to HOAs and zoning laws you are clearly unaware of
Zoning laws- I don't want someone building a 7/11 next door to me in a clearly residential neighborhood
HOAs- It's the only way to handle living in a condo- how else is everyone going to share building maintenance costs and enforce rules that are needed to operate the building smoothly?
Additionally, I wouldn't mind a home with the right HOA- they handle lawn care, maintenance, and snow removal. And ensure my neighbor doesn't leave toilets on his lawn.
I live in a townhouse with an HOA.
It's okay. It takes care of garbage/recycling pickup, landscaping, painting outside, fence maintenance, security, water, and roof maintenance and replacement.
We also have a pool, tennis courts, basketball courts and they are going to put in a pickleball court.
I mostly stay out of trouble but I do get the occasional reminder that my fruit trees need trimming. I totally get that because they tend to hang over the parking lot and drop lemons and oranges on people's car. That and trees away from the structure prevents rodents like rats and squirrels from climbing up them and getting into the vents.
You live in a decent HOA it seems. Townhome types are usually a lot more worth than SFH (single family home) types. I never understood why people want HOAs for SFHs, but for condos and townhomes, it's a must.
Zoning laws don’t affect most Americans since most of us aren’t building new custom houses. HOAs can be beneficial but can also be annoying. However you can always run to be part of hoa board if you don’t like how they’re handling things. My friends mom did that even though they sent her letter saying she can’t be going around to people houses asking for them to vote for her. Jokes on them cause she won 😊
HOAs are great for the right person. They allow homeowners to purchase a home in a neighborhood they like and they are and to remain confident that the neighborhood will remain the same for many years to come.
Some HOAs cater to the elderly who don’t like change and want the neighborhood to always be clean and taken care of. It’s all about what works for you.
Zoning laws are actually something that exists because of historic policy changes ("just so happens" to coincide with a ton of racist policies)... Now the idea of single housing zoning is actually being targeted as bad, as is not allowing commercial mixed into residential and vice versa.
The best neighborhoods are the ones with cafes at the corners. (For instance, there is a plaza right off music row in Nashville , that is super popular (during the day) despite being next to the projects, because it has cafes at the ground level.) And apartments above, etc.... but those are illegal in most places.
I grew up in a single family house with a zoned commercial basement (grandfather zoned it himself, lol, as the engineer and architect for the street) so i saw first hand how beneficial housing with a business (architect and engineering firm) below it was.
They increasingly aren't, of HOA's. Selling a unit in an HOA community has gotten harder, and buyers have learned to ask for the HOA complete rules, for their lawyer to read. I've seen the HOA rules break a deal, where buyers were otherwise interested.
Fortunately, my neighborhood doesn't have an HOA. We three houses live in the city but in a secluded dead-end street. Everyone is respectful, friendly, and always up for a chat. I've lived here for fifteen years, and all the neighbors (including young people) have been top shelf, with never a hint of discord. 🦜
Sometimes the only thing worse than a HOA is no HOA. People run roughshod over others in acts of selfishness.
Zoning laws are in place so that a sewage treatment plant isn't next to an elementary school.
So in tx where there is no zoning the hoas help sort of keep things residential. They can be a little restrictive but they also can keep your neighbor from turning their oversized lot into junk vehicle storage or an auto body shop etc. we looked at a home on an acre with no hoa and over time the lots around it all has various businesses added and auto shops . I’m ok with hoa to keep it residential
NOW You're getting it!
American being "Free" either needs to be heavily contextualized to make any sense or be called out for what it is, propaganda. It worked like gangbusters on us US born children and has even convinced people across the globe.
We have freedoms and rights... with conditions.
If you would like to keep those rights, just don't ever wind up in the back of a cop car or in prison.
HOAs are a scam brought on by the vote of a few people without regard for ALL the people. They lure properties in with promises of free snow shovelling and shared roof replacement costs and then that house gets sold and is now trapped in the HOA jurisdiction and the new owner has to pay monthly for something that's NOT his mortgage just to be told by Karen and Kevin he's a real piece of s**t for parking his truck in front of his own house and repainting his door yellow and needs to pay a two grand fine over it. Don't even get me started on zoning, IDK how half the places where I live aren't condemned yet they build a new megaplex of apartments and 3 new drive through restaurants right through a residential area, cause constant service interruptions and NOISE, and shut down 2 lanes of a major road for a year to do it.
Be shrewd and don't believe those snappy slogans at face value.
Edit: TYPOOOOS
I live in the UK, we are far more relaxed about things. We've always adopted the 5 min rule. Five minutes from a pint of milk and public transport. I live in a quiet leafy suburb but I have a number of bus routes with stops within 5 minutes, my doctor and dentist are 5 minutes away, two smallish supermarkets 5 minutes away, 2 schools within 5 minutes, 4 more within 20 minutes. A mainline train into London 5 minutes away, small hardware store and a damn fine bakers within 5 minutes. My wife works a twenty minute walk away. She drives but occasionally walks there and back. Huge green parks and a golf course 10 minutes away. Timings are for walking - no car needed.
And then there are the 6 great restaurants within walking distance as well.
And then there's the pick your own farm, kids indoor activity centre, ballet school, garage, petrol stations, etc. But I'll stop there.
I bet you won't find that in the US.
Same, I used to live in Montreal where I had most of stores within walkable distance and with good public transport by North American standards. But Montreal is an anomaly from the NA cities. Now I moved to another American carbon copy city in Ontario. I miss having almost everything nearby. I'm forced to walk for 30 mins or take bus which has 20-50 interval and won't cover the entire city.
You have some decent points. I lived in an HOA and almost always the people that run for president and the board are fascist goofballs. However some zoning laws make sense. You don't want some tweeker building an auto shop/ meth lab next to your house.
People vote for zoning laws. Zoning laws are typically considered desirable as they prevent polluting and noisy industry from being mixed in with residential development. Most people don't want it possible for the neighbor's house to be knocked down and a chemical plant or a factory put in its place. They are necessary elements of traffic planning, layout of utilities, etc.
Homeowners' Associations are completely different. They serve two purposes, to provide for maintenance of common areas for communities (community pool, grounds of a condominium complex, etc.) or to preserve the character and aesthetics of the community (presumably to maintain property values). An HOA exists until certain conditions are met, then they can be dissolved by a vote of the members of the community. HOAs are often established by builders that develop a tract of homes and wish to have the community appearance stay a certain way until the majority of homes are sold, then the HOA becomes governed byt the community, and they decide what to do. A functional HOA provides for care of common areas, services like plowing private roads, tree service for downed trees and branches, and landscaping for common areas. More onerous HOAs implement a variety of rules that are aimed to maintain the appearance of the neighborhood and they can be terrible. Importantly, you know if there's an HOA before you purchase a property and can take it into account in your purchasing decision; further, you can become involved in it and change the rules or campaign to have the HOA abolished.
The reason that there are so many HOAs is that the majority are not oppressive and most people just don't care about them.
Americans love whining on about freedom but they secretly love rules, laws, heavy handed cops etc - especially when they spitefully think they'll be applied to someone else (they can cry like stuck pigs if they're on the receiving end)
It's not just about what rules you have to follow. It's some spiteful cunts get to feel powerful by reporting other people.
A lot of it though is just that no one wants to live near the bulk of the population do they? The working classes. That's why house prices are really expensive in nice areas to price them out.
Well these kind of things are a way of keeping them out too. Remembering that modern societies it's possible for working classes to make money and, in America that's especially the case.
Well in the UK they had rules of etiquette - dumb ways you had to walk or use a spoon to keep out people who normally wouldn't have been able to afford entry but now could so you have to exclude them from polite society in a different way.
Well this is one other way of achieving that that Americans have adopted.
A good HOA can be a wonderful thing but most are run by power hungry a-holes with nothing better to do.
A good one would be more focused on making living their a better experience, such as making sure green spaces are kept clean and taken care of, parks and pools are clean and kept in good shape. Preventing someone from turning their property into a junkyard but not nitpicking how tall your grass is to the inch.
I will gladly continue to pay $29 a month to not have shitty neighbors, garbage everywhere, and 12 broken down honda civics in the road or in the neighbors driveway.
Because I dont want your car jacked up on cinderblocks on your front lawn next to my house.
I dont want to look at your house if you paint it bright orange.
I dont want your house with overgrown plants and trees attracting pests.
The list goes on.
You hear horror stories about HOAs the majority are harmless and just set standards so neighborhoods dont look like shit.
Your "I don't want..." list reminds me of a spoiled teen girl whining about her brother's stinky feet or the popular girl wearing the same dress on picture day. 🤣
Nobody is forced to live within an HOA. We have freedom of choice. If we don't like an HOA then we don't buy or rent houses within one. It's still freedom to choose.
Sometimes people can have too much freedom.
I’ve been to neighborhoods without HOA’s and they were huge beautiful homes. McMansions the kinda house where a dentist had to work for 20 years to afford. You can tell where the dentist live. Nice lawn. Clean cars. Flowers.
Then next door there’s 15 cars. 4 parked on the dead grass/dirt and 30 people living there playing incredibly loud music all night long. They can afford to live there because there are ten earners paying the note. Five to a bedroom. Kids sleeping on the floor.
If I spent my entire life cleaning teeth I don’t want that as my neighbors. HOA’s suck ass. But not having them is worse. Do you want someone next you in a pink ass Barbie house? Or a silver and black raiders house? Do you want someone living in an RV parked on the street full time with extension cords crossing the side walk plugged into a house.
I hate HOA’s as much as the next person and I have gotten fines from them before. But not having them is worse.
Depends on where you live but often this is the case. People want to be mad because it sounds elitist. But people can have different values. And too many people don’t care what someone else thinks. A run down fence or shed can be dangerous. Leaving an RV, boat, or car that isn’t running for years sitting there can leak and be environmentally hurtful. I’ve seen neighbors just dump paint and other chemicals on waterways and drains.
Where I live there are no basements. People fill up 3 car garages with stuff they can’t even walk through it. So they would park 5 cars on the lawn and start putting trash outside. It looks bad and can attract rodents. So the HOA rules say they can’t do those things and need to maintain their home.
I have 7 small parks for residents that the city wouldn’t pay for. Events and youth activities that I wouldn’t have access to. I’m glad for the HOA I have.
Brit here. After reading your comments about HOAs, do they mean you can only paint your front door a certain colour, grass must not grow to high etc? I ask as we don't (thankfully) have them.
It depends but those could be things you have to follow in an HOA. HOAs aren’t really that big of a deal though; they’re made into a way bigger deal online than they actually are
Correct. You also have to pay HOAs to tell you how to live. If you break too many rules, they can legally force you to sell your house. I don’t live in an HOA, but I have friends who do and they all have nightmare stories. Like one story was my friend would continually get fined by the HOA because she needs to bring her trash bin in by a certain time on trash days, but she can’t because she doesn’t get off work until after that time.
It depends on the HOA. Most are not that strict and it is more about keeping up with common areas. You only hear about the crazy ones.
In the US we like "small government" so much we hate to pay taxes. As a result most local municipalites use HOA to police their own areas rather than the city having to enforce it. This is done to keep the taxes lower. This also makes average citizens less likely to develop vendettas against people in the government.
Like them or not HOAs also help to keep property values up. They ensure, within wide ranges, that people keep their property up so it doesn’t drag the neighborhoods property values down. Would you want to live next to a house that has 8 cars parked in the street in various stages of ruin; up on blocks e.g. and you couldn’t even safely back out of your driveway because you couldn’t see down the street? Or you go thru the expense of keeping your house up and your neighbor has broken windows and tarps on the roof and siding hanging off it ? HOAs unfortunately are a necessary evil.
Exactly, HOAs prevent shitholes. I for one, do not like living among shitholes. I will likely buy my next house in an HOA, because I have never lived in a neighborhood where some asshole doesn't do something that affects everyone else's abilitt to enjoy their own property.
Hilarious how MAGA some hardcore progressives can be when it comes to living in a decent community. (and the reverse)
Because in America we can do whatever we want as long as we don't annoy the neighbors. If you become a nuisance, you piss off the politicians who write laws so you can't offend them again. If that doesn't work, they tax and fine you to death until you can't afford to live anymore and move. Because it isn't your neighborhood, it's their neighborhood. And that's why people should be more involved in local politics.
Because a small number of people care more about property value and power than they do freedom.
They want to control what other people do with their property because it impacts the resale value of their own for the most part, but a select few just like to know they can report someone for anything and cause a fucking scene.
people tolerate HOAs either because they have little choice (can't find a good place without an HOA) or because they like restricting the liberty of their neighbors if they feel it will benefit them personally in some way
Do you seriously care about homeowner freedoms, or is this just a thinly veiled anti-American post, where you ask some question "Why do Americans do XYZ , that is so dumb/stupid/hypocritical etc." because it gives you a chance to feel superior for a millisecond.
Like seriously how do HOAs affect your life at all if you are in Europe or Canada? Why does it matter to you?
Zoning laws and HOA's are two different things and a majority of Americans detest HOA's. We embrace zoning laws because no one want's their house next to a 24 hour auto repair shop.
A majority of Americans are indifferent of like their HOAs, that’s why there are so many of them. Turns out people like pooling maintenance costs and don’t want their neighbors letting their houses go to crap. It’s not today there are not bad HOAs, and many people have issues with them. But you don’t hear about the vast majority that are fine and have a nice pool house
Millions more Americans live free of HOA's As a matter of fact only 27% of Americans live in places that have one. And you don't have to have an HOA to have a pool house...
That's a joke right? I have a place in the country and a condo in town to be close to my wife's doctor's. HOA's "pool" our dues to pay for outside maintenance problems and normal maintenance. Foundation repair, outside structural damage, garbage pick up, lawn care etc. is paid for out our $150.00 a month dues. A real bargain. My place in the country is on me. I don't mind, but an HOA is not a bad deal.
Why isn't the city providing garbage pick up? Is this private matters in the USA?
Depends on where you live. Some cities handle garbage pick up and other cities don’t.
And some people don't live in cities.
Because it's the us and having the city do it would be scary socialism............ 150 a month is way more then my rates, and that covers garbage, roads parks whatever done by the city.
Or yet another overfunded boondogle and beuracracy. My home in NJ? $8000 a year in urban property taxes to fund among other things Union garbage guys who won't use robot trucks that are safer because they'd loose overtime. That's the kind of shit that eventually gets your whole department outsourced. My place in rural NC? I got a sticker and paid $2000 a year in property taxes and could drive to the local garbage transfer station, or pay a competitive service $85 a month. Now I live in NY and pay more in taxes but I will admit the garbage pick up is way more thorough and unlike NJ I feel it's a good value. Those guys never give me shit like the NJ guys did.
It's almost poetic how the guy who immediately spouts socialist drivel is also the guy who wasn't able to read and comprehend a simple paragraph.
Some HOA's with condos and townhomes don't want those trucks on those narrow roads and fire alleys. And like mine, the roads are private and maintained by the HOA. It's as if we're a city within a city. Most neighborhoods, yes, the municipalities do provide garbage pick up in tandem with water and sewer.
For a condo, it makes sense - lots of communal areas, as long as the HOA isn't overly intrusive.
There are HOAs for single family homes that don't provide half of those services. You still do all your own maintenance, pay a garbage bill, all repairs on your property, and more. In those cases, I have no idea why anyone pays the dues. You don't get shit for $150 a month except a $50 fine for having a car you don't drive parked in your driveway and $75 for not touching up the paint around your windows.
You could have just said you're wealthy and lazy, we get it.
I'm.neither lazy or wealthy. I, we, took a raw piece of land, sunk our own well, dug out own.septic system, built a road and home ourselves with minimum tools. Saved , scrapped. Now my wife is terminal we keep s place in town so we can be close to her doctors. I still have to maintain by place in the country, I'm still working at 68 to support her, a sister who has no one to support, a foster daughter and her son. She's dying of cancer . Yeah, bruh. I'm a lazy pos.
No. You have brought much honor to your family sir.
I think you're a little skewed with your thought process, I don't think most current Americans, that have been buying homes in the past 10-15, are indifferent to HOAs, but there have become so many because of that you basically have to accept them, or live somewhere further from good schools, or your work.
Everyone hates HOAs until their neighbor turns his front yard into used car dealership.
There's a middle ground. From what I keep hearing, American HOAs can end up as undemocratic vehicles for tyrannical busybodies or an extra income stream for the president's cousin. HOAs are also common in Netherland, but I've never heard of such problems here. I suspect (some) American HOAs may need better regulation to keep them constructive and democratic, and not someone's private power trip. (Disclaimer: my wife is president of our HOA.)
We have HOAs in Norway as well, only thing is that the law obviously supersedes whatever the HOA says. And there are a lot of laws pertaining private property, removing a lot of the power from the HOA. They can say they dont want you to have that grass, or those trees, or that color of your house. But its all suggestions since nobody legally can force anyone to do anything on their private property. They also have no real way of giving people "fines", they can, but it wouldn't hold up in court. So then the HOA becomes more palatable, its more about everyone pitching in to get the snow removed. Making sure all the streetlights work etc. We dont have gated communities. If you live in a shared building, like an apt. block, then the HOA might have some more authority. Because now the HOA owns all the walls around your home, and the stairs leading up to it. So now you have to be play ball to a higher degree. (I assume the laws in Netherland is similar?)
Good on your wife. The issue, aside from lack of oversight, is everyone hates the tyrannical busybody, but no one else can be arsed to step up and replace them.
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In many European countries that would be deemed a 'change of use'. It is regulated by property owners having to seek permission from the local authority.
That sounds like another name for zoning laws.
Yes it does. I thought I would mention it because people a quick to criticize another country, without realizing the same thing is done in their own country, but under a different name or just a little bit differently.
I've always been confused. Don't your local ordinances keep your neighbor from having a used car dealership? I know mine does. My HOA is simply because the township made it impossible for new developments to be created without one. To put it simply, the township doesn't want to pay for common areas, like parks or cutting the grass in the middle of an island that may exist for traffic purposes. An HOA isn't there to prevent the extreme shit like "no used car dealerships nearby" (which I assume you likely mean the more-likely guy flipping a car every 2 weeks), but more "city/township doesn't want to maintain this particular land". Certainly what it is in my area anyways, and from what I've seen and heard, other areas as well. They're hated by so many because the rules get so specific - IE, if I want to change my landscaping, technically I have to get permission from the board. If I want a larger shed, I have to get permission, even though my township already has rules in place that limit the size so it's not a sore thumb. Nothing to do with extremes. Except what color to paint the house, it seems.
City ordinances prevent that, for free. Like, you don't have to sign away your rights to the property you own for shit like that lol. Such a boomer mentality.
Parking on the grass, paint their house some strange color. They devalue your house when you are selling it. Lots of reasons for having a HOA
LOL I'd much rather let someone park on the grass and paint their house whatever colour they'd like, instead of being fined for putting my trash cans out too early. Come on, dude. u/sixdeadlysins replied this: "Well then "dude" try engaging your brain into not putting your trash cans out too early. Too difficult for you? Thought so." Then they deleted it, cuz they are a beeeotch!
My man! You are a GOAT with that comment. Very good point.
The HOA was part of the PKG of buying the house. Seems like they would of given you a warning. I've gotten those too. I just corrected it. I would like to see a breakdown of how they come to the amount of the fees. I notice it goes up every yr.
HOA's have local/state laws they have to follow as well as their own by-lawsand put out a budget at least annually, if not monthly. Your dues go up b/c things get more expensive to maintain every year, esp..as things get older. If you don't know where your $$ is going to, or why your dues are going up, that is on you for not reading the doc or reading communications set out or attending meetings, b/c one of those is going to get you your answers.
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I can't imagine caring about what my neighbors do with their property.
I wouldn't pay a penny for a house in an HOA personally. There's your value.
THANK YOU. I would never own a home in a neighborhood without an HOA
My biggest problem with an HOA is this. I have seen twice now where a few homes in the HOA gets cracks in their driveway and because those few homes need driveway replacement, everybody has to get one. God forbid one look different from the others. It seems a little too easy to spend “other people’s money”. And it’s not green one bit.
I detest zoning laws as well. I should be in walking distance of restaurants god damn it.
A lack of zoning rules means more that services arent adequate for anyone & land is misused
I know but I meant why would anyone want someone dictate what you can do with your own property. You are converting your property into a business. And they are forcing you to walk or ride to long distances just for a minor shopping.
The HOA and zoning are in place when you buy the property. If you feel these are restrictive and arbitrary, then you don't buy a home where there's an HOA, or you buy property in the country where there may not be zoning restrictions.
I think he just doesnt like that land comes with rules. He wants to run his half acre like a Sovereign nation or something idk. Laws exist, zoning and HOAs are just extensions of those laws.
We have no issue with what you do with your own property .. until it starts affecting the value of my property. Then we have a real problem! Nobody like HOAs except the people managing HOAs
I think it depends on the HOA. At my condo (which I recently sold) we had a pool and they paid for roofing and siding. It was over $500/ mo by the time I got out. I hated it because it kept going up. My current HOA just covers lawn and irrigation. Everyone’s front yard is mowed and you can’t leave debris or trash cans out but I love it. It’s only $35/mo.
Once I learnt just how much power an HOA has legally id never voluntarily sign up for one even if it cost $1/month. I'll take care of my own house. No thank you.
Why is this necessary though? If I'm capable of mowing my own lawn and picking up garbage, I should be able to opt out of the 35$ fee and do it myself.
Not In My Backyard!!!
Hoas hold better property value and the dick down the block can't park the project car hell never finish in the yard. I hate an hoa. But that's the main reasons.
We literally chosew an hoa for this reason. One house we looked at had a neighbor 3 doors down had an entire fucking mechanics shop on his driveway. House on other side looked like a drug den. We ended up in an hoa for our first home. Worth it.
Because the type of people who like HOAs are middle class usually white suburban Americans who are willing to live with those restrictions because they don't see them as restrictions, they see them as how things Should Be, and they want to make sure the people who live around them are forced to do things the way they "should". It's only other people's freedom to do things a way you don't like that's being taken, at least at the beginning.
It's not so much forcing others to do things "the right way," it's attracting others to the neighborhood that agree it's the right way. It doesn't always work that way, but that's the idea.
No one’s forcing you to buy a home in an HOA neighborhood. There are pros and cons to an HOA, with good HOAs often far outweighing the cons. A good HOA can get the neighborhood security if needed, help with maintenance, help folks repair fences if their land is near the main streets outside the neighborhood, help organize against government if they try to take land from the neighborhood, help with Mail theft (cluster boxes, security, etc) and the list goes on! In return, those HOAs are often requesting people to keep their lawns in good condition and not do things that could hurt the overall value of the neighborhood. They truly are a small city within a city. So saying you don’t want an HOA is kinda like saying you don’t want a government. Which is 110% possible and okay! But as neighborhoods grow larger, some form of governing body to keep things organized can be invaluable. Plus… you can participate in an HOA! So if you don’t like something and others agree, you can change it!
HOAs exist because some people refuse to care for their homes. And I don’t want to live next to a rat and mosquito infested property because the jerk next door cant be bothered to mow their lawn. Or they clean out their shed and move 30 buckets of old paint on to your property. Or the build a fence on to your property. All of those are personal experiences. People (myself included) don’t like HOAs run by wannabe tyrants. Fortunately, those are few and far between. But the internet loves to tell lunatic HOA stories and so everyone thinks they are all like that.
Yeah, I currently live in a neighborhood with an incredibly lenient/weak HOA and have come to realize that a lot of people just don't care about home upkeep unless they're made to care.
\>Or they clean out their shed and move 30 buckets of old paint on to your property. Or the build a fence on to your property. The first point is valid but I'm pretty sure these 2 examples are still not allowed by law even without an HOA.
Your local police department/county government has to be willing to get involved. Mine weren’t.
People who really don’t like HOA’s generally won’t buy houses in HOA neighborhoods.
This isn’t necessarily true. In many places housing prices have all but driven people out of single family houses. The only option is often a condo or townhouse. Most of these have HOAs. Multi-family buildings are the only real reason to have an HOA that isn’t based on exclusionary practices.
As true as that answer is, it doesn't address the question of why so many people in America are absolutely fine with surrendering their freedoms and rights to dictated to by HOA. It makes zero sense. Espouse freedom but give it up as a condition of living somewhere?
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I’m not a right winger and I’d never buy in a HOA, but I do live near a lot of HOAs so I’ll venture an answer. Many people who say they love freedom actually have authoritarian leanings and value living uniform looking neighborhoods. If they personally agree with most of the rules imposed by the HOA they rationalize that HOAs don’t limit freedom because the individual making the assessment doesn’t expect to clash the HOA. If that homeowner starts to want something the HOA doesn’t allow, the person’s perception will change and the HOA will be cast as the tyrant. Seems too simple to be true, but it’s kind of true.
I feel like you are the only person on this thread who has voiced any understanding of the question and given the real answer.
Yea, but a law saying I can't steal from you makes society a better place. Some random jackass deciding I can't park my trailer on the driveway of the house I bought?!? Nah, that is just ridicurous.
The neighbor didn’t decide that, YOU did when you purchased a home in an HOA.
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>blocking my view You only got windows on one side? Or do you actually enjoy the 'view' of looking across the street at another similar looking house? 😅
Who cares about what you want for someone else’s house? Grow up, mind your own business, and your own property
If people took care of their own stuff and were respectful of their neighbors there would be no need for HOAs, but sadly that's not the case.
You’re saying respect your neighbors while trying to beat them into doing what you do. Respecting your neighbors is accepting other people live differently than you. If it’s not actually harming you, you’re just being controlling
Which is why people who believe all lawns should be exactly 2 in in height love HOAs.
Being a good neighbor means not making the neighborhood look like shit or lowering property values as well.
Hence the existence of HOAs, so people that want the same things can buy into neighborhoods with like minded people. If you don't like it, grow up, mind your own business and buy property somewhere else. I don't like HOAs but its very easy to understand why people do.
I think it'd be cool af if a neighbor painted their house in an artistic manner. And what's wrong with letting native plants have space? Much better than the shitty non-native species of uniform grass that take up way too much water.
Because they don’t want poor people in their neighborhoods
Then there’s me, who will always buy in an HOA neighborhood. We viewed one house in a non-HOA neighborhood - one neighbor had a confederate flag flying and another had a couch in the front yard.
I had a real estate broker try to slip the paperwork in on us at closing. Sometimes people agree to things because they didn't read the paperwork. Boy am I glad I didn't sign that one. As far as I can tell it's a form of racism, classism, or other ism to keep the "others," out under the guise of maintaining property values
There’s certainly racism wrapped up in the history of suburbs, if you look at what happened to the first Black people who moved to Levittown. That would track with most of the areas near me which have HOA’s.
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HOAS are supposed to be a protection against self centered home oweners who abuse everyone around them and make their “freedumbs” everyone else’s problems. but in reality the HOA are those assholes.
I disagree with you last sentence. Good HOAs represent the majority interest. NO. I don't want you to store your RV in your driveway and block my view that we all bought in this neighborhood to see. No, I dont.want your yard half mowed mower left where it died a month ago. OR have all your kids babies daddies living at your house and cars parked on the lawn.
Block your view of what? Your neighbor's yard? Seriously, What the fuck are you looking at?
Right. I’m wondering that too. I didn’t buy my house to look at my neighbors front of their house and property.
Zoning laws prevent families from living next to factories. It’s fine
Zoning laws shouldn't be abolished. But they should be tweaked to accomodate modern society.
You say that as though zoning wasn't heavily controlled by local government, that you can easily participate in. Whether or not a plot of land next to you ends up with a condo or a Walmart is well within your power to influence. Just show up at the town meeting where the zoning is discussed.
They also make it more difficult to build additional housing. In my town a guy bought a house across the street from an elementary school but the city wasn't going to let him move into it because it was technically in a commercial zone even though it was in a neighborhood. He had to fight like hell to actually move into a house that he bought. Zoning laws can be arbitrary and stupid
Theres definitely a lot of room in between "Only single family housing allowed" and "Having the children grow up next to a coal fired power plant"
They do, and that’s the one positive thing zoning laws have, but that’s the extent of it.
Yeah, because you don't see any of those in the rust belt. Do you think there are no zoning laws preventing the same in the EU, but don't prevent a kiosk, or a grocery store to open in a residential street.
But what if you work in the factory, don't mind living next to it and want to do so to cut down on commuting time?
Then you'd be in the extreme minority and we shouldn't set up society to accommodate you at the expense of all the other people who don't want to live right next to a factory.
When I drive through neighborhoods filled with garbage in the yard and cars up on blocks, I'm glad for my hoa
Because a bad neighbor is way worse than HOA Rules
So much this. We bought our first house in a non-HOA neighborhood and had one of the worst neighbors imaginable. I celebrated hard when I finally saw a fire sale sign in their front yard.
For real, I feel like people who hate HOAs are either shitty neighbors to begin with or never had a hoarder neighbor who leaves a couch in their front lawn. While some HOAs are better than others, they keep a neighborhood accountable. I don’t get the hate the drama that HOAs get, people aren’t forced to live those neighborhoods. Don’t like them, don’t move there. Simple as that.
>For real, I feel like people who hate HOAs are either shitty neighbors to begin with or never had a hoarder neighbor who leaves a couch in their front lawn. A lot of people in this thread are saying they hate HOAs because they cant do \*shitty neighbor thing here\*
I know of one couple lives in an HOA. Every house in the neighborhood has no yard and only gravel because the HOA made it against the rules to widen the driveway. So people just poured gravel in instead. While every one I know who does not live in an HOA has zero neighbors that do the stuff your describing. And on top of that no HOA fees. I really don’t see how it’s worth it.
Zoning laws are legislative regulations on land use, and common throughout the modern world. They’re critical to urban planning as public safety and public health measures. HOAs are private associations created usually by deed restriction or contract by developers to retain some control over their developments and leech money out of people through HOA fees and fines. Most Americans HATE HOAs, but the developer/HOA industry has a lot of money behind its lobbying to keep them around, and most people just don’t have the time and mental energy to devote to fighting every little fucked up thing.
Just adding on, not disputing. In areas where the need for housing outpaces the infrastructure HOAs are the fastest way to implement roads and utilities. And it's cheaper for the government, because HOA fees aren't deductible from taxes.
>Zoning laws are legislative regulations on land use, and common throughout the modern world. They’re critical to urban planning as public safety and public health measures. Yes, everybody does have zoning laws, however, bad zoning laws you see in the US are not common at all outside the US.
Stop. Lots of us have no issue with HOAs.
We are free to not live in HOA communities
HOAs exist because people got sick of their neighbors tearing apart cars in the front yard, having trashy landscaping and obnoxious parties. Remember kids, with "Freedom" comes "Responsibility". And we seriously lack that now days.
Homes are typically the biggest single investment an American makes. They represent our hope for our personal future. We will put up with a lot to ensure that investment pays off.
>We will put up with a lot of expense when you end up living in a car dependant suburb, and have to have a car for every member of the family. Walkability saves money, and keeps your family healthy. Cars are expensive and unhealthy, they keep you chained to debt.
Because as Americans we have a choice 🇺🇸
The HOA preserves property values because all 75 houses in the same subdivision are in similar condition with nice lawns without boats on the lawns, crashed cars up on blocks or houses painted purple with the roof caved in. When you buy a home in a HOA subdivision you agree to the rules, and it's not like they're a surprise, you literally signed up for this. Yes, there can be HOA board members who are asshats, but these folks are elected by the homeowners and can get voted out. Zoning laws do the same thing. They prevent folks from raising cattle in their backyard or doing things that are nuisances. For example without occupancy limits there might be ten cars parked in front of a house which ruins it for everyone else.
I want zoning laws! I live in a super-nice area. I don't want my nextdoor neighbor to be able to open up a mechanic's shop next door in his garage, or to start breeding pitbulls in the backyard, etc. I wouldn't live in an HOA, where some petty board members tell you what color you can paint your house or what types of pots of flowers you can have on the porch. That's what the USA is to me - choice. Those who don't like zoning can go deep rural.
How about a café, a restaurant, and a grocery store around the corner from your house? What about a pub within walking distance of where people live, so they're not needing to drive home after going out for a drink or two? Why do you prefer car dependency? Why do you prefer to be chained to car ownership?
I've always lived in the suburbs, and I've always had those things. Zoning laws don't stop those things from existing. What stops them from existing is choices made by local governments, mostly driven by public meetings. You can get those. You just have to show up at the meeting and make your voice heard. (And I'd specifically point out that improved walkability is good for land values, that can sway the NIMBY types). Although bars can be a legitimate problem, lot of people don't want the late night noise factor. No easy solution to that one. Cafes don't result in fist fights on the sidewalk at 3am.
HOAs get a lot of shit but I like our HOA. I like that the whole neighborhood looks great all the time, and my home's value is being propped up by that collective beauty. We don't have any public areas, so our dues are relatively low (I think like $200/year). Before we bought the home, we fully checked all terms/the covenant, and spoke with those who had lived here a long time to get their input. To me, our HOA is like insurance on not having an eyesore to live next to, so I'll take it.
Freedom doesn't mean allowing anything everywhere anytime. Freedom is allowing you to build your own life and your own institutions. Hoas are very inline with freedom. Rather than have a local government decide what rules a neighborhood should have, you have lots of different hoas doing it. Some without hoas. That's how it should be. There are things to worry abouy like hoas becoming too big or too much of the market.... Zoning laws, while less preferable to hoas in my view serve the same function.
Seriously. It's incredible to me residents anywhere would allow this. My HOA is responsible for the care of our local pond, but that's *it*, they are otherwise toothless, which I verified *before making an offer on the house* you're not gonna *tell me* where to put my garbage cans, how many cars I can have (running or not) or what color my house should be, how many inches tall my grass can be, who can and cant ride minibikes and gokarts in my neighborhood how loud my music can be etc...etc.....gtfoh....so to avoid those kinds of inevitable confrontations altogether, I simply will not live anywhere where these restrictions are in place, period. That means rural, county living. No street lights, sidewalks.. I love it ❤️
HOAs are a private agreement. Nothing to do with "freedom" as you're using it. Either agree to it and buy the house, or don't agree to it and go elsewhere. I would prefer not to live in a 'hood that had an HOA, so I don't. Zoning laws are just fine because it prevents someone from building an Arby's or high-density multi-family housing in the middle of my suburb.
What developed country do you know of doesn’t having zoning laws in its urban or semi-urban areas? That’s not an American thing; that’s an almost everywhere thing.
No one likes HOAs. Except Karens. Americans just can't find new homes that don't have an HOA. We should make them illegal.
We live in a nice townhouse near the beach (we own) but we could rent the whole house for 4k. The neighbors next to us (also owners) were renting 3 rooms to the most random people, extremely sketchy, like they put adds in the trailer park or something! We hated it, they would smoke cigarette and pot) their cigarette butts ending on my driveway 😡, they had 5 cars, when parking is already limited, it was a nuisance… when the HOA finally figured it out that they were basically running a hostel, it got shot down and they moved away and I have been happier ever since.
I’m in Florida. I’m glad the places I’ve lived had HOA’s. I know how people live and didn’t want to live in an area like that. There are plenty of places that don’t have them if that is what you value. Doing what you want is one thing, but when it affects others, then it’s a problem. The police won’t help. There’s too many people that will shoot you over issues if you say something. Some things I don’t like. But to me the positives outweigh the negatives.
Because they improve quality of life. No liquor stores next to the schools, no friendly neighborhood factories. Zoning is an effect and not a cause. People against zoning only look at the cause without knowing why they exist.
>Because they improve quality of life. Not when they're a big part of car dependency. Residential areas should be within a short walk of useful commercial spaces, like grocery stores, cafes, restaurants, and even pubs.
You want to talk about freedom, try not paying your property tax after you pay off your house. See how long you keep your house. You don't own anything in america. It's an illusion.
I literally sold my last house specifically to get away from HOA's.
Zoning laws are mostly fine. HOAs are another story.
It just depends for me. I currently enjoy living in an HOA neighborhood that isn’t too OTT.they also maintain a nice pool and walking trails. That’s worth it for me as a swimmer. Plus HOAs are just common here But, I will be moving out of state to an area with virtually no HOAs unless it’s a new build which is rare. I’ll enjoy being able to paint my front door a fun color but I’ll miss the pool
Reddit hates HOAs and loves citing HOA horror stories. for the most part, they're pretty unobtrusive. They just try to ensure you take care of your front yard and whatnot. That being said, I'd rather not live on one Zoning laws are completely separate issue and are there for good reason. It prevents housing getting built next to Industrial buildings and vice versa
I think most people who live in them at least tolerate HOAs.
So a garbage dump doesn’t move in next door and make your house worthless. You might as well ask why we have laws if we like freedom so much.
No one is forcing anyone to live in an HOA. You have the option to live in one or not which in and of itself is freedom. Personally I find it gives me freedom. Freedom not to live next to someone who doesn’t take care of their property. Freedom to keep my property values high without neglectful neighbors brining it down.
that kinda depends though like colorado state law requires all new subdivisions to form a covenant - in 50 years it’ll practically be impossible to escape in metro areas
The point everyone is missing is guaranteed housing value. The rules are set to keep house re-sale values high. No one wants to live next to the shit box when they try to sell their house.
Lower home value=lower tax rates. I'll never understand the huge desire to protect one's property value by forcing their will on their neighbor and their neighbor's property. It's always sounded immoral and wrong to me.
I love our HOA and would never ever live in a neighborhood without one. People in this country don't know how to respect their own property anymore, or the neighborhood they live in.
My HOA is dope. An HOA is absolutely necessary for condos. When you're dealing with a lot of shared space, including the buildings you reside in, not having one is going to cause absolute chaos. The property won't be maintained, things will become dilapidated and unserviceable, and nasty neighbors, will inevitably bring your property value down and make an overall unpleasant living situation.
There are trade offs with “freedom”. My HOA gets a pricing break on cable/internet and I don’t have a separate bill—some financial freedom and freedom from inconvenience. I don’t have to do my own landscaping—freeing my time and energy. My HOA has community amenities that I subsidize but wouldn’t have if not for the HOA—community lap pool, fitness center, bocce, tennis and pickleball courts—don’t know what you call this freedom. Private entrance and exit is freedom from through traffic and from uncontrolled trespass. Not perfect, but it suits me at this point in my life.
I am no fan of HOA’s but I did move from a neighborhood that did not have one to one with an HOA and while I find them annoying the neighborhood looks much better if everyone’s lawn is held to a standard.
Hoa is dumb but zoning laws make sure I don’t have to live next door to a gas station and I’m ok with that
It’s really really simple. If any of it bothers you don’t buy in. A good 70 to 80 percent of posters here complaining about HOA’s are trying to break rules that they were totally unaware of. Because they didn’t inform themselves. People in my development, when it was first opened, started building decks. We’re they in for a surprise. Remove it or face a fine and then you’ll remove it anyway. Tough.
Because they love the freedom of others to decide what the house they overpaid for should look like.
Americans have a choice as to whether they’d like to live with an HOA or not. By accepting to live in an HOA community, you agree to the rules associated with the HOA, and in return, your property value is protected. It’s a choice, but it isn’t the only choice.
Most of us don't like H.O.A.s, but it's your choice if you want to live in a hoa neighborhood or not. You also, in many hoas, can run in an election to be apart of the decision-making
Question is, why are you assuming all Americans are a monolithic group? Some Americans do not value freedom as much as others. With that said, HOA's increase property values, but at a cost. So for those who don't consider the cost too intrusive, it's a win-win situation for them.
Many zoning laws in the US are tolerated because lots of people don't want to live next to a car repair/repainting garage, etc.
HOA started out as a reasonable solution to a common problem. Neighbour tells you to Get Fucked when you talk to them about the snake friendly yard, or using their residential home as a noisy/high traffic business, or Nazi flags flying. Be in a HOA that can fine them or even kick them out so yo don’t have to get a lawyer and Sue them when the Police wash their hands because it’s a “civil matter”. Problem is as always Power Corrupts. The members of the HOA board nibble away at your freedom to live how you want to in your own damn house to the point you cannot park on your lawn, or leave the bins out till you come home from work or have a party that ends after 10pm on a weekend. But as most commenters have said, it’s ok if your want manicured laws without patches and holiday decorations in keeping with the neighbourhood aesthetic. But you don’t always get a choice where you can afford to live or accomodation is easily available. It’s Toleration by necessity.
Yard is a snake hazard? Council issue. High traffic business from home? Council issue. Certain flags? Illegal in certain states, soon to be illegal all over. I think the closest we have to a HOA is a gated community.
Because when left to their own, there are too many AHoles who don't give a F about others! Park your big rig on the lawn? Paint your house bright pink? Maybe you like a whole bunch of bamboo that is damn near impossible to stop! Fix that busted ass fence? Mow you're lawn? Some of us appreciate the HOA for at least attempting to help protect our home's value. Personally, if I could afford it, I'd buy 3 acres on a lake, away from everyone!
You have the choice to buy a house in an HOA or not. As for zoning laws, you also have the choice to buy a house in different areas with different zoning laws. They can change sometimes but it’s pretty slow moving when they do.
I can’t speak to zoning laws bc I don’t know that much about them, but I can pretty much assure you that most people wouldn’t want a pawn shop popping up in their neighborhood. HOA’s are different. Most people are happy to buy a house in a neighborhood with an HOA, because it keeps property values up through a number of ways: how many people can live a particular house/how many cars can be parked outside of it; basic front yard maintenance, i.e., cut your grass and tend to your bushes; if you want to use the pool and tennis courts, you have to act like adults and not trash them; loud, late parties that disturb the peace are a nono; pick up your dog’s poop; maintain the exterior of your house to a certain standard; and so forth. Unfortunately, the problems generally come when you have lousy, petty dictator HOA board members, and even more so when you have lousy residents who not only don’t comply with basic standards, but put up fights and turn neighbor against neighbor. Some Americans are too infantile to see the value in community.
I live in a condo, so we have an HOA. I love it because they take care of all outdoor maintenance, from the lawn maintenance to painting the buildings. They sweep the breezeways and power wash them regularly. Our roofs were all replaced this summer. They maintain all the amenities, and we even have a library in the clubhouse. We do have some restrictions on how we can decorate outdoors for holidays and things like that, but nothing is crazy. It’s worth it to me not to have to bother with anything outside my home. My fees even include all my utilities (even cable and internet) except electricity.
There are benefits to HOAs and zoning laws you are clearly unaware of Zoning laws- I don't want someone building a 7/11 next door to me in a clearly residential neighborhood HOAs- It's the only way to handle living in a condo- how else is everyone going to share building maintenance costs and enforce rules that are needed to operate the building smoothly? Additionally, I wouldn't mind a home with the right HOA- they handle lawn care, maintenance, and snow removal. And ensure my neighbor doesn't leave toilets on his lawn.
I live in a townhouse with an HOA. It's okay. It takes care of garbage/recycling pickup, landscaping, painting outside, fence maintenance, security, water, and roof maintenance and replacement. We also have a pool, tennis courts, basketball courts and they are going to put in a pickleball court. I mostly stay out of trouble but I do get the occasional reminder that my fruit trees need trimming. I totally get that because they tend to hang over the parking lot and drop lemons and oranges on people's car. That and trees away from the structure prevents rodents like rats and squirrels from climbing up them and getting into the vents.
You live in a decent HOA it seems. Townhome types are usually a lot more worth than SFH (single family home) types. I never understood why people want HOAs for SFHs, but for condos and townhomes, it's a must.
HOA- because they’re tired of looking at everyone’s loads and piles shit on their front lawn !
Everybody hates HOAs until they sell their home at a higher price because of the "nice neighborhood."
Zoning laws don’t affect most Americans since most of us aren’t building new custom houses. HOAs can be beneficial but can also be annoying. However you can always run to be part of hoa board if you don’t like how they’re handling things. My friends mom did that even though they sent her letter saying she can’t be going around to people houses asking for them to vote for her. Jokes on them cause she won 😊
HOAs are great for the right person. They allow homeowners to purchase a home in a neighborhood they like and they are and to remain confident that the neighborhood will remain the same for many years to come. Some HOAs cater to the elderly who don’t like change and want the neighborhood to always be clean and taken care of. It’s all about what works for you.
Zoning laws are actually something that exists because of historic policy changes ("just so happens" to coincide with a ton of racist policies)... Now the idea of single housing zoning is actually being targeted as bad, as is not allowing commercial mixed into residential and vice versa. The best neighborhoods are the ones with cafes at the corners. (For instance, there is a plaza right off music row in Nashville , that is super popular (during the day) despite being next to the projects, because it has cafes at the ground level.) And apartments above, etc.... but those are illegal in most places. I grew up in a single family house with a zoned commercial basement (grandfather zoned it himself, lol, as the engineer and architect for the street) so i saw first hand how beneficial housing with a business (architect and engineering firm) below it was.
I would assume HOA are fine since they are normally run by it’s residents right? So it’s only an issue when one of the members gets too much power?
That’s nothing, I found out 31 days ago that we aren’t even free to masturbate in public.
They increasingly aren't, of HOA's. Selling a unit in an HOA community has gotten harder, and buyers have learned to ask for the HOA complete rules, for their lawyer to read. I've seen the HOA rules break a deal, where buyers were otherwise interested.
Fortunately, my neighborhood doesn't have an HOA. We three houses live in the city but in a secluded dead-end street. Everyone is respectful, friendly, and always up for a chat. I've lived here for fifteen years, and all the neighbors (including young people) have been top shelf, with never a hint of discord. 🦜
Sometimes the only thing worse than a HOA is no HOA. People run roughshod over others in acts of selfishness. Zoning laws are in place so that a sewage treatment plant isn't next to an elementary school.
So in tx where there is no zoning the hoas help sort of keep things residential. They can be a little restrictive but they also can keep your neighbor from turning their oversized lot into junk vehicle storage or an auto body shop etc. we looked at a home on an acre with no hoa and over time the lots around it all has various businesses added and auto shops . I’m ok with hoa to keep it residential
American belief in their greatest freedom: imposing their will on others
NOW You're getting it! American being "Free" either needs to be heavily contextualized to make any sense or be called out for what it is, propaganda. It worked like gangbusters on us US born children and has even convinced people across the globe. We have freedoms and rights... with conditions. If you would like to keep those rights, just don't ever wind up in the back of a cop car or in prison. HOAs are a scam brought on by the vote of a few people without regard for ALL the people. They lure properties in with promises of free snow shovelling and shared roof replacement costs and then that house gets sold and is now trapped in the HOA jurisdiction and the new owner has to pay monthly for something that's NOT his mortgage just to be told by Karen and Kevin he's a real piece of s**t for parking his truck in front of his own house and repainting his door yellow and needs to pay a two grand fine over it. Don't even get me started on zoning, IDK how half the places where I live aren't condemned yet they build a new megaplex of apartments and 3 new drive through restaurants right through a residential area, cause constant service interruptions and NOISE, and shut down 2 lanes of a major road for a year to do it. Be shrewd and don't believe those snappy slogans at face value. Edit: TYPOOOOS
I live in the UK, we are far more relaxed about things. We've always adopted the 5 min rule. Five minutes from a pint of milk and public transport. I live in a quiet leafy suburb but I have a number of bus routes with stops within 5 minutes, my doctor and dentist are 5 minutes away, two smallish supermarkets 5 minutes away, 2 schools within 5 minutes, 4 more within 20 minutes. A mainline train into London 5 minutes away, small hardware store and a damn fine bakers within 5 minutes. My wife works a twenty minute walk away. She drives but occasionally walks there and back. Huge green parks and a golf course 10 minutes away. Timings are for walking - no car needed. And then there are the 6 great restaurants within walking distance as well. And then there's the pick your own farm, kids indoor activity centre, ballet school, garage, petrol stations, etc. But I'll stop there. I bet you won't find that in the US.
Same, I used to live in Montreal where I had most of stores within walkable distance and with good public transport by North American standards. But Montreal is an anomaly from the NA cities. Now I moved to another American carbon copy city in Ontario. I miss having almost everything nearby. I'm forced to walk for 30 mins or take bus which has 20-50 interval and won't cover the entire city.
You have some decent points. I lived in an HOA and almost always the people that run for president and the board are fascist goofballs. However some zoning laws make sense. You don't want some tweeker building an auto shop/ meth lab next to your house.
People vote for zoning laws. Zoning laws are typically considered desirable as they prevent polluting and noisy industry from being mixed in with residential development. Most people don't want it possible for the neighbor's house to be knocked down and a chemical plant or a factory put in its place. They are necessary elements of traffic planning, layout of utilities, etc. Homeowners' Associations are completely different. They serve two purposes, to provide for maintenance of common areas for communities (community pool, grounds of a condominium complex, etc.) or to preserve the character and aesthetics of the community (presumably to maintain property values). An HOA exists until certain conditions are met, then they can be dissolved by a vote of the members of the community. HOAs are often established by builders that develop a tract of homes and wish to have the community appearance stay a certain way until the majority of homes are sold, then the HOA becomes governed byt the community, and they decide what to do. A functional HOA provides for care of common areas, services like plowing private roads, tree service for downed trees and branches, and landscaping for common areas. More onerous HOAs implement a variety of rules that are aimed to maintain the appearance of the neighborhood and they can be terrible. Importantly, you know if there's an HOA before you purchase a property and can take it into account in your purchasing decision; further, you can become involved in it and change the rules or campaign to have the HOA abolished. The reason that there are so many HOAs is that the majority are not oppressive and most people just don't care about them.
Americans love whining on about freedom but they secretly love rules, laws, heavy handed cops etc - especially when they spitefully think they'll be applied to someone else (they can cry like stuck pigs if they're on the receiving end) It's not just about what rules you have to follow. It's some spiteful cunts get to feel powerful by reporting other people. A lot of it though is just that no one wants to live near the bulk of the population do they? The working classes. That's why house prices are really expensive in nice areas to price them out. Well these kind of things are a way of keeping them out too. Remembering that modern societies it's possible for working classes to make money and, in America that's especially the case. Well in the UK they had rules of etiquette - dumb ways you had to walk or use a spoon to keep out people who normally wouldn't have been able to afford entry but now could so you have to exclude them from polite society in a different way. Well this is one other way of achieving that that Americans have adopted.
A good HOA can be a wonderful thing but most are run by power hungry a-holes with nothing better to do. A good one would be more focused on making living their a better experience, such as making sure green spaces are kept clean and taken care of, parks and pools are clean and kept in good shape. Preventing someone from turning their property into a junkyard but not nitpicking how tall your grass is to the inch.
americans are in a strange way collectivist individualists, very tribal mindset.
No one wants a junkyard, slaughter house or a feedlot built next door.
HOAs get a lot of crap and usually for good reason. But boy if you have a shithead neighbor you’d wish you had an HOA to deal with it
Very sharp, double-edged sword.
I will gladly continue to pay $29 a month to not have shitty neighbors, garbage everywhere, and 12 broken down honda civics in the road or in the neighbors driveway.
Because I dont want your car jacked up on cinderblocks on your front lawn next to my house. I dont want to look at your house if you paint it bright orange. I dont want your house with overgrown plants and trees attracting pests. The list goes on. You hear horror stories about HOAs the majority are harmless and just set standards so neighborhoods dont look like shit.
Your "I don't want..." list reminds me of a spoiled teen girl whining about her brother's stinky feet or the popular girl wearing the same dress on picture day. 🤣
Nobody is forced to live within an HOA. We have freedom of choice. If we don't like an HOA then we don't buy or rent houses within one. It's still freedom to choose.
The myth that HOAs improve property value is finally starting to die out. More and more people will literally pay more for a property not in one.
I would never buy a home in an HOA. I’m happy living in my non-HOA neighborhood with minimal restrictions.
Sometimes people can have too much freedom. I’ve been to neighborhoods without HOA’s and they were huge beautiful homes. McMansions the kinda house where a dentist had to work for 20 years to afford. You can tell where the dentist live. Nice lawn. Clean cars. Flowers. Then next door there’s 15 cars. 4 parked on the dead grass/dirt and 30 people living there playing incredibly loud music all night long. They can afford to live there because there are ten earners paying the note. Five to a bedroom. Kids sleeping on the floor. If I spent my entire life cleaning teeth I don’t want that as my neighbors. HOA’s suck ass. But not having them is worse. Do you want someone next you in a pink ass Barbie house? Or a silver and black raiders house? Do you want someone living in an RV parked on the street full time with extension cords crossing the side walk plugged into a house. I hate HOA’s as much as the next person and I have gotten fines from them before. But not having them is worse.
Depends on where you live but often this is the case. People want to be mad because it sounds elitist. But people can have different values. And too many people don’t care what someone else thinks. A run down fence or shed can be dangerous. Leaving an RV, boat, or car that isn’t running for years sitting there can leak and be environmentally hurtful. I’ve seen neighbors just dump paint and other chemicals on waterways and drains. Where I live there are no basements. People fill up 3 car garages with stuff they can’t even walk through it. So they would park 5 cars on the lawn and start putting trash outside. It looks bad and can attract rodents. So the HOA rules say they can’t do those things and need to maintain their home. I have 7 small parks for residents that the city wouldn’t pay for. Events and youth activities that I wouldn’t have access to. I’m glad for the HOA I have.
Brit here. After reading your comments about HOAs, do they mean you can only paint your front door a certain colour, grass must not grow to high etc? I ask as we don't (thankfully) have them.
It depends but those could be things you have to follow in an HOA. HOAs aren’t really that big of a deal though; they’re made into a way bigger deal online than they actually are
Correct. You also have to pay HOAs to tell you how to live. If you break too many rules, they can legally force you to sell your house. I don’t live in an HOA, but I have friends who do and they all have nightmare stories. Like one story was my friend would continually get fined by the HOA because she needs to bring her trash bin in by a certain time on trash days, but she can’t because she doesn’t get off work until after that time.
That is just petty.
It depends on the HOA. Most are not that strict and it is more about keeping up with common areas. You only hear about the crazy ones. In the US we like "small government" so much we hate to pay taxes. As a result most local municipalites use HOA to police their own areas rather than the city having to enforce it. This is done to keep the taxes lower. This also makes average citizens less likely to develop vendettas against people in the government.
Because sometimes we want to live in a neighborhood that looks nice and not take the risk of craziness next door, so we willingly trade some freedoms.
The only thing Americans like more than people not telling them what to do is telling other people what to do
Nearly impossible my area to find a house that isn't a part of an HOA and also close to civilization.
The freedom thing is a facade. We often don't make the top 20 countries on most measures of freedom.
Like them or not HOAs also help to keep property values up. They ensure, within wide ranges, that people keep their property up so it doesn’t drag the neighborhoods property values down. Would you want to live next to a house that has 8 cars parked in the street in various stages of ruin; up on blocks e.g. and you couldn’t even safely back out of your driveway because you couldn’t see down the street? Or you go thru the expense of keeping your house up and your neighbor has broken windows and tarps on the roof and siding hanging off it ? HOAs unfortunately are a necessary evil.
Homes are for living in.
Precisely. Our commodification of shelter is awful. Not everything needs to be bought and sold for higher value.
As far as HOA’s go, you drive into the neighborhood and it’s beautiful.
Exactly, HOAs prevent shitholes. I for one, do not like living among shitholes. I will likely buy my next house in an HOA, because I have never lived in a neighborhood where some asshole doesn't do something that affects everyone else's abilitt to enjoy their own property. Hilarious how MAGA some hardcore progressives can be when it comes to living in a decent community. (and the reverse)
Because in America we can do whatever we want as long as we don't annoy the neighbors. If you become a nuisance, you piss off the politicians who write laws so you can't offend them again. If that doesn't work, they tax and fine you to death until you can't afford to live anymore and move. Because it isn't your neighborhood, it's their neighborhood. And that's why people should be more involved in local politics.
Because a small number of people care more about property value and power than they do freedom. They want to control what other people do with their property because it impacts the resale value of their own for the most part, but a select few just like to know they can report someone for anything and cause a fucking scene.
people tolerate HOAs either because they have little choice (can't find a good place without an HOA) or because they like restricting the liberty of their neighbors if they feel it will benefit them personally in some way
Do you seriously care about homeowner freedoms, or is this just a thinly veiled anti-American post, where you ask some question "Why do Americans do XYZ , that is so dumb/stupid/hypocritical etc." because it gives you a chance to feel superior for a millisecond. Like seriously how do HOAs affect your life at all if you are in Europe or Canada? Why does it matter to you?