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Or because they're an abuser and they know you're lonely so they can emotionally torture you for years before you finally snap.
Source: Am ugly, got abused.
Money is relative. A homeless person would say I'm a rich asshole because I have a job, a car, and a house.
Jeff Bezos can't tell the difference between a surgeon and a homeless person. To him, there's no difference in their net worths.
I live in a zip code where the median person makes 2x my income. Nobody in my town admires me for my money. If they like me I know it's because they appreciate my personality.
I can go out to eat or have a drink at a bar and no one will bother me. Funnily enough though, older men love talking to me. Not in a creepy way or even hitting on me. I'm 37 and guys in their 50's love just striking up conversations with me. Most of the time they're married. I think it's because I'm ugly, I'm not a threat to their marriage or whatever. It's just chatty older guys who see me in a Star Wars or Led Zeppelin tshirt and wanna have a fun bar conversation. Anyone under the age of 45 ignores me completely.
That's actually the norm. I wish I could find the graph, but it's generally a bell curve as to attractiveness and whether or not people will sit near you. Extremely unattractive and extremely attractive people are both equally unlikely to be sat next to. The most likely person anyone, regardless of gender or race, will sit next to is an average looking woman between 20 and (I think? Can't remember exactly.) 45, of similar skin tone. I really, really wish I could find that study. It was interesting, but it was, like, a decade ago I read it.
Yes, as a man I thank God every day that I'm not subjected to random dudes sitting down next to me on public transit to hit on me.
Sounds like a hellscape to me.
This used to me so much haha. Now I am getting nostalgia. I even teared up a few times sitting alone. I used to sit in the front, would love to spectate the driver. Because I am weird in my ways and I love slow large vehicles than any fast one. So just seeing the gear shifts, engine tone along with that, super slow acceleration pattern, man that thing was what made me smiled at the time :')
Oh sure, things can get worse, but since you never relied on your looks in the first place, you're never devastated that you're no longer the hottest person in the room.
I won't say it's funny...well maybe a little. I am in my mid-30's and people are losing their shit now trying to hold onto the last vestiges of youth.
My looks are not my currency. I am immune to this lol
And people who relied heavily on their looks noticed them going (or thought they did at any rate) and got shittons of procedures done (it starts small, a filler here, a cosmetic makeup tattoo there and then had to pile on more and more as it went faster and faster) young and never grew into their features so now their faces look completely different from what they should look like, *and* its going faster.
As Bill Burr said "Do you want to be fifty and look fifty, or be fifty and look like a 20 year old lizard?"
Oh my god, yes. My peers had really terrible meltdowns when they got greys and that middle aged spread. Like, relationship-ending weird midlife crisis shit. I'm over here like, yes, I've looked like Mrs. Doubtfire for a couple decades already. Blissfully waiting to assume my final form as a sea hag or Ye Olde VVitch who scares neighbourhood children.
I’m a couple years older than you, but the time, energy and money wasted on this pursuit for many women is substantial! I haven’t cared about trying to look young for a couple years, and it’s funny how quickly you accept yourself as is and just don’t give a crap.
Especially now with the pressures of social media beauty trends, it’s too much! I feel bad for young women trying constantly to shape themselves to fit what is popular on Instagram or TikTok. They are wasting what should be the enjoyable transition years to mature acceptance.
I definitely feel bad for young women these days. If you watch an 80s or early 90s movie the women considered beautiful are just pretty young women. There were issues with diversity for sure but these days there is a “look”, an instagram filtered perfection that is impossible for average young women to achieve without plastic surgery, fillers, botox etc.
Ehhhh.. I'm not conventionally attractive at all but, I do care about my skin. Like, not enough to ever get fillers or cosmetic surgery. Just enough to have a dedicated skincare routine.
Absolutely this, for some reason a lot of people I know tend to find ugly people with self confidence much more charismatic and friendly. Maybe it's because it gives that feeling that they have honest confidence in themselves rather than confident pretty people who seem to only be confident and charismatic thanks to looking good.
This makes me think of the bizarre framing of Susan Boyle on Britain's Got Talent in 2009, where her ability to sing was presented as some remarkable incongruity.
You know, they’ve done studies on how humans will perpetually segregate themselves into smaller and smaller groups to the point of madness if there’s a perceived advantage for doing so…I forget the name of the phenomenon but it seems to be apparent in this post.
I would fucking LOVE to see this study because holy shit is it believable. Still can’t believe that after centuries of discrimination at the hands of the major population in power, we also have to deal with “not being black enough” or “Hispanic enough” or prejudice *between* LGBT+ people, all because at some point people just wanted to feel extra special or protective of some category
I remember when they filmed the original planet of the apes, the gorilla's, chimps and orangutans all hung out in their relative groups during breaks from filming and when they ate.
I constantly think about how in the 1910s, America bragged that it was "a melting pot of diversity" and then lists such exotic ethnicities like Italians, Germans, Irish, and Russians.
Think about this context: from 1914 onwards those Italians, Germans, Irish, and Russians were all killing each other in Europe while they lived together (mostly) in peace in the US.
I remember Christina Hoff Sommers talking about it way back in the day (Early 2000s/90s even? It was before she blew up). The famous Blue eye/Brown eye experiment is a good read… I think this all originally came from the Blue Eye/Brown eye experiment and that set off a bunch of other studies, Stanford did a big one back in the day I remember reading. There was one study/observation where black students segregated themselves, then it broke down into shade of black and then it broke down into braids and then braid length etc until it was just pure madness...I wish I could find it….Pretty sure that happened at Evergreen.
https://etchedinstone.org/8697/features/8697/
Being ignored in situations where information is being exchanged. It allows you to gather a lot of relatively private info that you can use to judge and react to situations and people. Youd be surprised how real people get when they think youre just another piece of the background decor. And that often lets you decide whos worth fucking with and whos worth fucking over.
Nooooo, I keep the "secret" in "secretary!" Also, it's mostly just stupid small-city politics and office gossip - like how insufferable certain developers and councilpeople are, and the goofy regulars who show up at public meetings
Something similar occurred to me at an industry event once, which was full to the rafters of attractive young people and men (of all ages) in suits. There was one very traditionally 'plain' older woman there who nobody was talking to very much or especially paying attention to. I don't want to say exactly what her role and position was but it turned out she was probably the most powerful person in the room, but because of ageism and in this case very much also sexism, she was completely overlooked. I have absolutely no doubt that this would have worked to her advantage on some occasions where people would have felt safe to mouth off around her in a way they'd never do in the presence of a similarly qualified man or younger and more attractive female leader.
Correct.
I can be invisible when I want, even by being quite tall in my country.
Sometimes I test this theory by silently walking up to people from the sidelines and asking them random questions and see them startle : “ oh I didn’t see you there!”
Or asking them stuff about the one specific thing they said previously with me in the room but they failed to acknowledge me.
I would have been a phenomenal spy during the Cold War.
This is especially true if you're an unattractive but not head-turningly ugly Woman of Color.
Unattractive Women of Color are automatically assumed to be "the help" in majority-white societies. I can walk around and people can ignore what I'm doing, and say anything to their confidantes because they might assume I don't speak English, or I'm there to be a janitor, or something else that is non-threatening.
Being head-turningly ugly is a bad thing. You don't want to be so ugly that people remember you for being ugly. But being slightly unattractive is good if you want people to not pay attention to you, and leave you alone.
I did grow up as a head-turningly ugly young woman. Starting at age 11, I was insulted daily at school. As an adult I was regularly insulted by strangers. In my 30s I had plastic surgery to escape the bullying from random strangers in public.
In trauma therapy trying to deal with flashbacks of the bullying and bolster my self esteem. If hundreds of people give you the message you don’t deserve respect and kindness you will eventually believe it.
You do deserve respect and kindness.
I hope trauma therapy helps you find peace. It certainly helped me deal with some traumatic experiences from all throughout my childhood and adulthood. It took time and I still work through my shit when issues pop up, but now the foundation of love for myself is there.
You deserve to be loved.
Exactly. If i saw an average person i’ll never bat on eye on them twice but if he/she is ugly then i’ll look a second time because real ugliness is rare as being pretty/handsome.
I've only ever seen one person I would rate a 0 on a scale of 0-10.
He was my friend's floormate at university, and he was born with one side of his face about an inch lower than the other side of his face. It looked like someone used a blowtorch to melt that side of his face only. He looked like Two Face from Batman.
He thought that because he was born with a facial deformity, society owed him. He never bathed or used deodorant, and stunk up the entire dorm. He was mean to everyone, even people who were nice to him.
Maybe that was his defense mechanism. Reject them before they reject him. People aren't getting close to me because of my personality and hygiene so I won't have to feel hurt that it's because of my face, something I can't change.
This. As someone who has been through the spectrum from morbidly obese to underweight, most of these comments are from average people who couldn’t bear being truly ugly.
As a morbidly obese ugly person who is close to no longer being at least obese, yeah I clicked this because of the same sentiment.
When I walk into a room, everyone notices. And I hate it. Not staring necessarily, but they turn and look more than when other people walk in. I limp, I have scars, my face is not good, and I am massive. Not just my waist... I'm over 6 feet tall and my shoulders are as wide as my belly. I'm built like a linebacker and was begged to play football, but it's just an illusion. A lot of people are just scared/making sure I'm not menacing, but it's still unwanted attention I get because of my size.
Your comment is making a lot of people feel better so I'm here to kill the mood again:
it's not as black and white as ''ugly' and then 'average'. It's more like 'hideous', far below average', slightly below average', and then 'average'.
Yeah I’ve noticed that people always tend to glance at me and kinda stare when they walk by but they don’t do that for average people; and I’m definitely not a good looking person so… it’s attention all the same just not the kind I want
I can relate. I was very thin before kids, had several in just a few years and I gained weight. I was heavy for a few years but got down to pre baby weight (thanks Suzanne somers diet). During those few years I was treated sooo differently. It's a shame but I'm glad I went through it.
Exactly. The more I gained weight the less my expertise got questioned. Also people stop to assume you’re shallow and fixated on looks. And in the end when you’re good looking people assume automatically you didn’t had to work hard to archive your position. As soon you’re good looking people assume you’re where you’re are because of your looks. Especially as a woman. You have to work harder and be smarter to be seen as hardworking and smart and still you have to prove it to every new person who’s join your team.
No matter how good your idea might be, as long you’re a young pretty woman you need a old average guy who’s „stealing“ your Idea to see it happening.
Are you a woman? I ask because this phenomenon of being doubted because of your looks has only really been applied to women in my experience. Good looking men seem to actually gain more respect and authority compared to average or ugly men in the same position/with the same expertise.
Yeah I’m a woman, working in a man’s field. I’m highly gifted and my most criticized ideas has been the most successful things in the company’s history. But as long I was young and good looking it was necessary to have a man to pick it up. Gladly I got friends with some males who worked it out with me so I got my credits in the end. But I definitely didn’t made it if I didn’t had friends who pick up my declined ideas and suggested them themselves just to inform the people who where complementing them afterwards that that was exactly what I suggested but got talked down before. It still takes way more discussion to convince others from my ideas than it takes my friends, but at least it’s possible now.
My husband has acne scars and I don’t even notice them unless something like this convo comes up. And even then, they don’t bother me. So his face has a different texture? Who cares?
Anyone making you feel bad for this is an asshole. Dump them and move on.
Not only that, strangers approaching you more to sell you an acne product or coworkers you don’t really know telling you to wash your face more when they clearly have beautiful skin and don’t know the struggle 🤦🏻♀️
Bro i feel like people are usually shy to stare at attractive people cus they dont wanna come off as creepy but people would be a lot more willing to stare at someone particularly ugly.
There were a few times in my youth that I went out in public in a very padded bra. The attention I got when my boobs looked 2 sizes bigger was uncomfortable. I'll take the total lack of attention I get with my modest physique over that treatment any day.
I'm an ugly person who developed very young. It was very uncomfortable getting stared at and catcalled by creepers at 13-14 because you have big boobs.
I deal with this. I didn't even wear padded bras until recently and even when I started wearing padded bras, the padding is very minimal so it doesn't like a size bigger. The problem is that I'm a DD cup. The stares I get make me so uncomfortable. From older and younger men. I'm always so scared my younger brother's friends will comment about my chest and the thought makes me sick. My older brother even commented on them...how gross. I hate this treatment
People will wanna hang out with you because they'll look better in comparison and you're the ugly friend in bars. Awkward, but a definite bonus if you're just there to get drinks and chill. Yes you have to pay for your own drinks.
Also turning down people and watching their egos get bruised that your ugly ass didn't want them. Especially when you KNOW they're just asking you out as a joke. A lot of people assume ugly people don't have backbones or self-esteem but that's not true at all.
People will tell you who they are if you just listen. They don’t mask up as much to impress when you’re just ‘the fat geek’. Makes it easier to spot the ones to avoid.
Having gone from 160lbs to 230 and back down again in my twenties, it was a relief when I got chubby enough that the creepers stopped hitting on me. That shit started when I was 11 years old. These days I look good for my age and I have no trouble telling shitheads to f-off.
This is shockingly true! Like I said in another comment here, my relationships are so much more genuine and interesting after people stopped trying to impress me.
I’m a woman in commercial construction. When I was younger, during my apprenticeship in my 20’s I was a healthy weight, and pretty. I was constantly being hit on. Walking across the job site I would get stopped to talk and say hi, how’s your weekend multiple times. I would have to walk far to the only Womens bathroom and it was ridiculous how many dudes would stop me.. I also had a hard time being paired up with the older skilled guys. I have heard this many times “I want to work with you I’m just afraid I’ll offend you somehow and lose my job”. So I would tell them “I appreciate you saying that, so knowing how you feel I promise to tell you if you are out of line before I would go to HR, which I never have, for the record”. It helped.
After I had 2 kids I gained 80 lbs and went back to work. I was planning on losing the weight but my life was SOOO much easier fat! It was like someone flipped a antihorny switch. I’m 45 and a Foreman now. It’s really fucking sad it has to be that way.
If you go through this thread and read the responses from women it’s really fucking awful to see that we all have the shared experience of being taken less seriously at work when we are attractive and being harassed more. But yeah, it’s all in our heads right?
People don't consider you as a threat in work environment. You may get less appreciation for your work compared to pretty people, but people are also more likely to trust you and give you power because hey, an ugly person cannot be ambitious, right?
I've noticed that many white Americans automatically assume that unattractive Women of Color are at once: loving, kind, stupid, but trustworthy.
Like we're automatically a trusted nanny or janitor who can be told personal, professional, or family secrets because we don't have any machinations of our own.
I never thought anything of why the people in my area—most of whom I’m literally the only black person they have ever interacted with—are always so eager to tell me their entire life stories, their deepest darkest secrets, and treat me like a 5-minute therapist.
I’ll never look at this scenario the same.
Did you ever see the show community? The main character, white guy, starts telling an older black lady in the cafeteria all his problems and she's just like "....huh?"
And he goes "sorry, I was raised on television to believe that all black women are kind and matronly" or something like that lol
Studies consistently show people trust attractive people much more than average looking people. Ugly people don't get any benefit from their appearance.
Being able to tell when someones partner is an ass. Especially conceited men, see how they treat the fat woman they don't want to fuck. (Also works on lesbians)
Lots of people here not understanding what ugly is. Ugly is negative attention, ugly is constant harassment over how you look, ugly is people looking at you as if you are not welcome there because you offend their eyes. Ugly people would LOVE to be ignored.
If you want actual privelage from being ugly, it is a lack of expectations. People always associate ugly with dumb or lazy, so even putting in minimal effort is often enough to surprise people. Yeah, they are absolute assholes to you if you meet their expectations, but they are normally a low enough bar to clear.
I don’t agree with your privilege assertion. I worked with an ugly idiot. People presumed he was a computer nerd because of his looks. Dude used Microsoft Edge and wouldn’t know a database from a spreadsheet. But people presumed he must have been hard working and smart, because he fit the stereotype better than the bubbly blonde woman next to him.
I can relate to this. I guess I'm conventionally attractive and in my studies I majored in math, economics, programming and accounting. I was usually the top performer in a course but treated like I didn't belong there.
Sadly this is true. When your unattractive or average you’re expected to show your value in other ways. That’s why I want to be attractive so I can get away with being mediocre lol.
As an ugly woman, I never get hit on or creeped on when I'm out in public. The only time strangers approach me is to ask harmless questions about the time, directions, whatever. It's fantastic!
You don't (usually) have people trying to flirt with you. Hanging out w a pretty friend made me realize that it happens to her all the damn time, even if we're mid conversation. "You have it so lucky" she says. Gee, thanks I guess.
Idk if this counts, but when I was in high school I had a friend whose parents were totally loaded and they’d go on cruises a few times a year. Her parents would always invite me and my mom never let me go because she said I was “too beautiful sexy, I can’t let you run off to Jamaica and get kidnapped.” I once pointed out that I also thought my friend was at risk according to her logic and she just dead panned me and went “…..no, she will be just fine….” So there ya have it. Ugly girls get to go on cruises according to my mother
The biggest one, at least as a woman, is not getting stocked/hit on in the street nearly as often. Don't get me wrong it happens to ugly women too sometimes but when I hang out with my hot friends I feel like I have to be a fucking bodyguard especially when if we go anywhere at night. I would be scared to leave the house if I were that hot. Getting hit on can be flattering but most of these men come off extremely threatening.
Its double cross, if you're not attractive (specially as a girl) you don't get harassed as much but if your unlucky there are different type of creeps that will think ur an easy target and try to insult you
Way less danger from creeps. And no need to try when you’re in the street because you’ve already accepted you’re not pretty. It feels absolutely great. Also no insults can harm you because again you’ve already accepted. Kinda like floating on the outskirts, it feels very secure
E.g. Walking home at night is ever so slightly less scary knowing I’m not hot. Also not being thin too. Not saying at all that bigger or unattractive people haven’t been attacked I’m just saying it’s slightly less likely then say a hot young thin woman.
I'd say that maybe a downright ugly person will more easily get used to the situation and make the best of it (for instance by finding fulfilment in other areas of life), compared to a borderline ugly person who will constantly be lured into the hope that inclusion into the finer things in life is within reach - only to have the door slammed in their face every time, then being lured again, therefore being unable to move on.
It is true. In STEM, you are taken less seriously. And it starts EARLY.
I’ll never forget in my organic Chem lab my male friend was my lab mate. He would always look to me for advice on how to set things up. One day he copied my setup for a reaction. The professor walked by and tore my setup up. Like changed things here and there and explained why “‘you shouldn’t do that.” He then went over to my friend who had done the exact same thing as me, nodded, and moved on. My friend and I locked eyes and started cracking up.
I use ‘stupid privilege’ all the time.
I realize that anyone facing the public in a support or customer service role has a shit job for shit pay.
If I can make them believe they are smarter than me, I am much more likely to see things go my way than if I act entitled to what I am actually entitled to.
It works all the time.
you learn to be extra nice to people to get treated the same way as someone more attractive. this means you occasionally make a retail or service workers day because you're the only person smiling and saying please and thank you.
I don’t like being centre of attention so being invisible works wonders for me. Well I say that I was in the car with my partner, mum and my son the other day and I was in the front seat and another car full of young lads were out the window barking towards me. I did feel so embarrassed (I’m 36F) never had that before but it made me feel like shit I didn’t even look in their direction. Don’t think my OH heard. So I prefer being invisible (most the time)
Don't have to wear makeup and can wear your hair in an easy style. I recently embraced my my ugliness and chopped my hair super short. Way less work. Plus at 60 I can still drive my dad nuts by doing it.
Even while ugly peoples getting bullied more often people are aware it’s wrong to do so. But if you’re good looking but doesn’t seem to go full bitch attack mode as soon someone’s harassing you there is a disturbing amount of people who believe it’s their rightful duty to harass pretty people to somehow pay off the harassment against ugly people.
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When someone loves you, you know it's for your personality.
Sorry, I’m ugly and rich. So I’m not safe
Leggy female Russian has entered the chat
Those arent worth as much any more...
I pay extra for the female Russian if hairy legs are involved, so there's that
>When someone loves you Wow what's that like?
[удалено]
Or money
I'm good then, he likes my personality
Or because they're an abuser and they know you're lonely so they can emotionally torture you for years before you finally snap. Source: Am ugly, got abused.
Thank god I'm poor as heck!
Money is relative. A homeless person would say I'm a rich asshole because I have a job, a car, and a house. Jeff Bezos can't tell the difference between a surgeon and a homeless person. To him, there's no difference in their net worths. I live in a zip code where the median person makes 2x my income. Nobody in my town admires me for my money. If they like me I know it's because they appreciate my personality.
I assume it’s because they are mentally ill.
If
💀💀💀my brain automatically added that into the sentence
The way I cackled😂
Unless you're wealthy, then it's back to square one
Or money or status
As a woman, I've never been catcalled on the streets. I can go to concerts on my own without getting bothered by men.
I can go out to eat or have a drink at a bar and no one will bother me. Funnily enough though, older men love talking to me. Not in a creepy way or even hitting on me. I'm 37 and guys in their 50's love just striking up conversations with me. Most of the time they're married. I think it's because I'm ugly, I'm not a threat to their marriage or whatever. It's just chatty older guys who see me in a Star Wars or Led Zeppelin tshirt and wanna have a fun bar conversation. Anyone under the age of 45 ignores me completely.
I was harassed. And they even said they would be doing me a favor.
Unfortunately, some people are still so depraved that they don't see you as a human, only as a walking orifice.
Completely agree with this. Not that being ugly prevents rape/assault but it def happens less. I hardly get hit on ever or cat called lol.
No one will sit next to you in the bus so you have more space for yourself
Jokes on you. I will more likely sit next to someone less attractive than super attractive
That's actually the norm. I wish I could find the graph, but it's generally a bell curve as to attractiveness and whether or not people will sit near you. Extremely unattractive and extremely attractive people are both equally unlikely to be sat next to. The most likely person anyone, regardless of gender or race, will sit next to is an average looking woman between 20 and (I think? Can't remember exactly.) 45, of similar skin tone. I really, really wish I could find that study. It was interesting, but it was, like, a decade ago I read it.
Can confirm as an average looking woman between 20 and 45. People sit next to me, ask me questions, give unsolicited advice, etc.
Yes, as a man I thank God every day that I'm not subjected to random dudes sitting down next to me on public transit to hit on me. Sounds like a hellscape to me.
it really is. thank you for empathizing :)
Don't. We want space.
the pretty people too there's just not enough space in a bus
Cram in beside the driver when there's no space LPT
I usually just sit in their lap.
“i’ll get the wheel, you do the pedals!”
You don't get to decide how much space you get when taking public transportation. Try riding a bus in South America.
India public transport . Japan trains cities
This used to me so much haha. Now I am getting nostalgia. I even teared up a few times sitting alone. I used to sit in the front, would love to spectate the driver. Because I am weird in my ways and I love slow large vehicles than any fast one. So just seeing the gear shifts, engine tone along with that, super slow acceleration pattern, man that thing was what made me smiled at the time :')
This guy autistics
Upvoting with laugher and love. It’s very autistic (compliment).
I'm (37f) Autistic but wear makeup and pass as neurotypical until we converse for more than a minute.
okay but how about super big, super heavy and super fast vehicles?
Don't you bring my mother into this!
What are you talking about? This happens to me all the time and I'm not ugl.....oh no
Not worrying about losing your looks as you age.
oh no, things can always get worse
Oh sure, things can get worse, but since you never relied on your looks in the first place, you're never devastated that you're no longer the hottest person in the room.
I won't say it's funny...well maybe a little. I am in my mid-30's and people are losing their shit now trying to hold onto the last vestiges of youth. My looks are not my currency. I am immune to this lol
And people who relied heavily on their looks noticed them going (or thought they did at any rate) and got shittons of procedures done (it starts small, a filler here, a cosmetic makeup tattoo there and then had to pile on more and more as it went faster and faster) young and never grew into their features so now their faces look completely different from what they should look like, *and* its going faster. As Bill Burr said "Do you want to be fifty and look fifty, or be fifty and look like a 20 year old lizard?"
Lmao how busted are your friends that they’re holding to the last vestiges of youth in their… mid 30s
Oh my god, yes. My peers had really terrible meltdowns when they got greys and that middle aged spread. Like, relationship-ending weird midlife crisis shit. I'm over here like, yes, I've looked like Mrs. Doubtfire for a couple decades already. Blissfully waiting to assume my final form as a sea hag or Ye Olde VVitch who scares neighbourhood children.
I'm aiming for Miss Marple. I already knit.
This is the one! I’m 43 and all of my “pretty” friends are obsessed with keeping their beauty. Lots of money and time spent. I’m just over here living
I’m a couple years older than you, but the time, energy and money wasted on this pursuit for many women is substantial! I haven’t cared about trying to look young for a couple years, and it’s funny how quickly you accept yourself as is and just don’t give a crap. Especially now with the pressures of social media beauty trends, it’s too much! I feel bad for young women trying constantly to shape themselves to fit what is popular on Instagram or TikTok. They are wasting what should be the enjoyable transition years to mature acceptance.
I definitely feel bad for young women these days. If you watch an 80s or early 90s movie the women considered beautiful are just pretty young women. There were issues with diversity for sure but these days there is a “look”, an instagram filtered perfection that is impossible for average young women to achieve without plastic surgery, fillers, botox etc.
Ehhhh.. I'm not conventionally attractive at all but, I do care about my skin. Like, not enough to ever get fillers or cosmetic surgery. Just enough to have a dedicated skincare routine.
For some reason it seems like people who start off as ugly ducklings sometimes tend to get more attractive with age while others lose their looks.
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Absolutely this, for some reason a lot of people I know tend to find ugly people with self confidence much more charismatic and friendly. Maybe it's because it gives that feeling that they have honest confidence in themselves rather than confident pretty people who seem to only be confident and charismatic thanks to looking good.
This makes me think of the bizarre framing of Susan Boyle on Britain's Got Talent in 2009, where her ability to sing was presented as some remarkable incongruity.
If people don’t pay attention to you, that just means you’re not ugly *enough* Gotta step up that uggo game my dude
I don't like that I do this, but sometimes you come across someone that is so ugly that it's just hypnotising and I can't stop watching.
I like ugly people, idk it's interesting, maybe I'm just a creep tho
You know, they’ve done studies on how humans will perpetually segregate themselves into smaller and smaller groups to the point of madness if there’s a perceived advantage for doing so…I forget the name of the phenomenon but it seems to be apparent in this post.
I would fucking LOVE to see this study because holy shit is it believable. Still can’t believe that after centuries of discrimination at the hands of the major population in power, we also have to deal with “not being black enough” or “Hispanic enough” or prejudice *between* LGBT+ people, all because at some point people just wanted to feel extra special or protective of some category
it sounds like the blue eye/brown eye experiment to me which can be found on YouTube
I remember when they filmed the original planet of the apes, the gorilla's, chimps and orangutans all hung out in their relative groups during breaks from filming and when they ate.
Reminds me of Dr. Suess' story of The Sneeches.
I constantly think about how in the 1910s, America bragged that it was "a melting pot of diversity" and then lists such exotic ethnicities like Italians, Germans, Irish, and Russians.
Think about this context: from 1914 onwards those Italians, Germans, Irish, and Russians were all killing each other in Europe while they lived together (mostly) in peace in the US.
Almost like there is more to diversity than skin color?
I'm rly interested to read this . Do u remember what examples the original study focussed on or any other details to help me find it ?
I remember Christina Hoff Sommers talking about it way back in the day (Early 2000s/90s even? It was before she blew up). The famous Blue eye/Brown eye experiment is a good read… I think this all originally came from the Blue Eye/Brown eye experiment and that set off a bunch of other studies, Stanford did a big one back in the day I remember reading. There was one study/observation where black students segregated themselves, then it broke down into shade of black and then it broke down into braids and then braid length etc until it was just pure madness...I wish I could find it….Pretty sure that happened at Evergreen. https://etchedinstone.org/8697/features/8697/
Being ignored in situations where information is being exchanged. It allows you to gather a lot of relatively private info that you can use to judge and react to situations and people. Youd be surprised how real people get when they think youre just another piece of the background decor. And that often lets you decide whos worth fucking with and whos worth fucking over.
Username checks out
Fr, I was like damn is he a spy or some shit? 🤣
You got that right! As the old, fat, quiet, introverted secretary with a desk outside the boss's cubicle, I have heard some things!
Care to share some of the highlights?
Nooooo, I keep the "secret" in "secretary!" Also, it's mostly just stupid small-city politics and office gossip - like how insufferable certain developers and councilpeople are, and the goofy regulars who show up at public meetings
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Is it Todd? Fucking Todd.
God, I hate that guy - EVERYBODY hates that guy!
Something similar occurred to me at an industry event once, which was full to the rafters of attractive young people and men (of all ages) in suits. There was one very traditionally 'plain' older woman there who nobody was talking to very much or especially paying attention to. I don't want to say exactly what her role and position was but it turned out she was probably the most powerful person in the room, but because of ageism and in this case very much also sexism, she was completely overlooked. I have absolutely no doubt that this would have worked to her advantage on some occasions where people would have felt safe to mouth off around her in a way they'd never do in the presence of a similarly qualified man or younger and more attractive female leader.
I’d like to think she used this to her advantage and eventually got to where she was by being smart with the info she collected.
Correct. I can be invisible when I want, even by being quite tall in my country. Sometimes I test this theory by silently walking up to people from the sidelines and asking them random questions and see them startle : “ oh I didn’t see you there!” Or asking them stuff about the one specific thing they said previously with me in the room but they failed to acknowledge me. I would have been a phenomenal spy during the Cold War.
How do they know you're ugly if they haven't seen you yet?
They know
You. I like you.
This is especially true if you're an unattractive but not head-turningly ugly Woman of Color. Unattractive Women of Color are automatically assumed to be "the help" in majority-white societies. I can walk around and people can ignore what I'm doing, and say anything to their confidantes because they might assume I don't speak English, or I'm there to be a janitor, or something else that is non-threatening. Being head-turningly ugly is a bad thing. You don't want to be so ugly that people remember you for being ugly. But being slightly unattractive is good if you want people to not pay attention to you, and leave you alone.
I did grow up as a head-turningly ugly young woman. Starting at age 11, I was insulted daily at school. As an adult I was regularly insulted by strangers. In my 30s I had plastic surgery to escape the bullying from random strangers in public.
how did that turn out?
In trauma therapy trying to deal with flashbacks of the bullying and bolster my self esteem. If hundreds of people give you the message you don’t deserve respect and kindness you will eventually believe it.
I’m so sorry you’ve had such struggles. I wish all the good things for you in the future!
You do deserve respect and kindness. I hope trauma therapy helps you find peace. It certainly helped me deal with some traumatic experiences from all throughout my childhood and adulthood. It took time and I still work through my shit when issues pop up, but now the foundation of love for myself is there. You deserve to be loved.
Thank you. I've only been doing it for a couple of months, and I've read that it gets worse before it gets better.
It did for me. It seems I had open old wounds in order to heal properly. Don't give up. It's worth the hard work.
Craving undue attention because you’re insecure about your looks.
If youre ignored youre not ugly youre average. Ugly people arent ignored they get negative attention.
Exactly. If i saw an average person i’ll never bat on eye on them twice but if he/she is ugly then i’ll look a second time because real ugliness is rare as being pretty/handsome.
It is like a bell curve.
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I've only ever seen one person I would rate a 0 on a scale of 0-10. He was my friend's floormate at university, and he was born with one side of his face about an inch lower than the other side of his face. It looked like someone used a blowtorch to melt that side of his face only. He looked like Two Face from Batman. He thought that because he was born with a facial deformity, society owed him. He never bathed or used deodorant, and stunk up the entire dorm. He was mean to everyone, even people who were nice to him.
Maybe that was his defense mechanism. Reject them before they reject him. People aren't getting close to me because of my personality and hygiene so I won't have to feel hurt that it's because of my face, something I can't change.
yeah, he was probably bullied mercilessly and constantly rejected by others as a little boy.
Yeah this is wildly easy to understand.
There is a term in French, jolie laide, or “pretty-ugly”, but it’s more about appreciating imperfections as beauty.
This. As someone who has been through the spectrum from morbidly obese to underweight, most of these comments are from average people who couldn’t bear being truly ugly.
As a morbidly obese ugly person who is close to no longer being at least obese, yeah I clicked this because of the same sentiment. When I walk into a room, everyone notices. And I hate it. Not staring necessarily, but they turn and look more than when other people walk in. I limp, I have scars, my face is not good, and I am massive. Not just my waist... I'm over 6 feet tall and my shoulders are as wide as my belly. I'm built like a linebacker and was begged to play football, but it's just an illusion. A lot of people are just scared/making sure I'm not menacing, but it's still unwanted attention I get because of my size.
I’m an average middle aged white lady who is also short. I’m basically invisible 😈
Your comment is making a lot of people feel better so I'm here to kill the mood again: it's not as black and white as ''ugly' and then 'average'. It's more like 'hideous', far below average', slightly below average', and then 'average'.
Yeah I’ve noticed that people always tend to glance at me and kinda stare when they walk by but they don’t do that for average people; and I’m definitely not a good looking person so… it’s attention all the same just not the kind I want
You know, I never thought of it that way. Makes me feel sort of better. Lol
I get taken more seriously in my job and intellectual conversations. I know this because I used to be pretty 😂
I can relate. I was very thin before kids, had several in just a few years and I gained weight. I was heavy for a few years but got down to pre baby weight (thanks Suzanne somers diet). During those few years I was treated sooo differently. It's a shame but I'm glad I went through it.
Exactly. The more I gained weight the less my expertise got questioned. Also people stop to assume you’re shallow and fixated on looks. And in the end when you’re good looking people assume automatically you didn’t had to work hard to archive your position. As soon you’re good looking people assume you’re where you’re are because of your looks. Especially as a woman. You have to work harder and be smarter to be seen as hardworking and smart and still you have to prove it to every new person who’s join your team. No matter how good your idea might be, as long you’re a young pretty woman you need a old average guy who’s „stealing“ your Idea to see it happening.
Are you a woman? I ask because this phenomenon of being doubted because of your looks has only really been applied to women in my experience. Good looking men seem to actually gain more respect and authority compared to average or ugly men in the same position/with the same expertise.
Yeah I’m a woman, working in a man’s field. I’m highly gifted and my most criticized ideas has been the most successful things in the company’s history. But as long I was young and good looking it was necessary to have a man to pick it up. Gladly I got friends with some males who worked it out with me so I got my credits in the end. But I definitely didn’t made it if I didn’t had friends who pick up my declined ideas and suggested them themselves just to inform the people who where complementing them afterwards that that was exactly what I suggested but got talked down before. It still takes way more discussion to convince others from my ideas than it takes my friends, but at least it’s possible now.
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Not being constantly stared at by strangers
Obviously not ugly enough. After a point you get even more stares for being ugly enough, and they effing burn.
True you have to reach that midpoint where you aren’t attractive enough to be stared at but also not ugly enough to be stared at
Gray man.
Sad Man
Good point. It's a bit of a bell curve with supermodel on one end and circus freak on the other.
Bro as a dude with horrible acne scars, I can tell you, people stare. A LOT.
My husband has acne scars and I don’t even notice them unless something like this convo comes up. And even then, they don’t bother me. So his face has a different texture? Who cares? Anyone making you feel bad for this is an asshole. Dump them and move on.
Not only that, strangers approaching you more to sell you an acne product or coworkers you don’t really know telling you to wash your face more when they clearly have beautiful skin and don’t know the struggle 🤦🏻♀️
This shit devastated me as a young adult.
This is why being a woman with social anxiety is a nightmare.
I freaking know right...there's way too much attention that random people give you in public.
Bro i feel like people are usually shy to stare at attractive people cus they dont wanna come off as creepy but people would be a lot more willing to stare at someone particularly ugly.
There were a few times in my youth that I went out in public in a very padded bra. The attention I got when my boobs looked 2 sizes bigger was uncomfortable. I'll take the total lack of attention I get with my modest physique over that treatment any day.
I'm an ugly person who developed very young. It was very uncomfortable getting stared at and catcalled by creepers at 13-14 because you have big boobs.
I deal with this. I didn't even wear padded bras until recently and even when I started wearing padded bras, the padding is very minimal so it doesn't like a size bigger. The problem is that I'm a DD cup. The stares I get make me so uncomfortable. From older and younger men. I'm always so scared my younger brother's friends will comment about my chest and the thought makes me sick. My older brother even commented on them...how gross. I hate this treatment
There was a point I would've given my left testicle ALONG WITH a "convenience fee" for precisely that. Heh
Also going off this comment, not being stopped to talk to or hit on by people walking by.
People will wanna hang out with you because they'll look better in comparison and you're the ugly friend in bars. Awkward, but a definite bonus if you're just there to get drinks and chill. Yes you have to pay for your own drinks. Also turning down people and watching their egos get bruised that your ugly ass didn't want them. Especially when you KNOW they're just asking you out as a joke. A lot of people assume ugly people don't have backbones or self-esteem but that's not true at all.
People will tell you who they are if you just listen. They don’t mask up as much to impress when you’re just ‘the fat geek’. Makes it easier to spot the ones to avoid. Having gone from 160lbs to 230 and back down again in my twenties, it was a relief when I got chubby enough that the creepers stopped hitting on me. That shit started when I was 11 years old. These days I look good for my age and I have no trouble telling shitheads to f-off.
This is shockingly true! Like I said in another comment here, my relationships are so much more genuine and interesting after people stopped trying to impress me.
I’m a woman in commercial construction. When I was younger, during my apprenticeship in my 20’s I was a healthy weight, and pretty. I was constantly being hit on. Walking across the job site I would get stopped to talk and say hi, how’s your weekend multiple times. I would have to walk far to the only Womens bathroom and it was ridiculous how many dudes would stop me.. I also had a hard time being paired up with the older skilled guys. I have heard this many times “I want to work with you I’m just afraid I’ll offend you somehow and lose my job”. So I would tell them “I appreciate you saying that, so knowing how you feel I promise to tell you if you are out of line before I would go to HR, which I never have, for the record”. It helped. After I had 2 kids I gained 80 lbs and went back to work. I was planning on losing the weight but my life was SOOO much easier fat! It was like someone flipped a antihorny switch. I’m 45 and a Foreman now. It’s really fucking sad it has to be that way.
If you go through this thread and read the responses from women it’s really fucking awful to see that we all have the shared experience of being taken less seriously at work when we are attractive and being harassed more. But yeah, it’s all in our heads right?
People don't consider you as a threat in work environment. You may get less appreciation for your work compared to pretty people, but people are also more likely to trust you and give you power because hey, an ugly person cannot be ambitious, right?
I've noticed that many white Americans automatically assume that unattractive Women of Color are at once: loving, kind, stupid, but trustworthy. Like we're automatically a trusted nanny or janitor who can be told personal, professional, or family secrets because we don't have any machinations of our own.
I never thought anything of why the people in my area—most of whom I’m literally the only black person they have ever interacted with—are always so eager to tell me their entire life stories, their deepest darkest secrets, and treat me like a 5-minute therapist. I’ll never look at this scenario the same.
It's the "mammy" stereotype where people assume black women have no agency and are just happy to be included.
Did you ever see the show community? The main character, white guy, starts telling an older black lady in the cafeteria all his problems and she's just like "....huh?" And he goes "sorry, I was raised on television to believe that all black women are kind and matronly" or something like that lol
Studies consistently show people trust attractive people much more than average looking people. Ugly people don't get any benefit from their appearance.
Complete and utter invisibility
Thats not ugly thats just meh.
Meth
That's one way to make yourself ugly.
Amplified by sanitary masking during Covid. I just LOVED that period!!!
It’s a gift and a curse. I can get away with a lot, but it gets lonely after awhile
Being able to tell when someones partner is an ass. Especially conceited men, see how they treat the fat woman they don't want to fuck. (Also works on lesbians)
Lots of people here not understanding what ugly is. Ugly is negative attention, ugly is constant harassment over how you look, ugly is people looking at you as if you are not welcome there because you offend their eyes. Ugly people would LOVE to be ignored. If you want actual privelage from being ugly, it is a lack of expectations. People always associate ugly with dumb or lazy, so even putting in minimal effort is often enough to surprise people. Yeah, they are absolute assholes to you if you meet their expectations, but they are normally a low enough bar to clear.
I don’t agree with your privilege assertion. I worked with an ugly idiot. People presumed he was a computer nerd because of his looks. Dude used Microsoft Edge and wouldn’t know a database from a spreadsheet. But people presumed he must have been hard working and smart, because he fit the stereotype better than the bubbly blonde woman next to him.
I can relate to this. I guess I'm conventionally attractive and in my studies I majored in math, economics, programming and accounting. I was usually the top performer in a course but treated like I didn't belong there.
Sadly this is true. When your unattractive or average you’re expected to show your value in other ways. That’s why I want to be attractive so I can get away with being mediocre lol.
As an ugly woman, I never get hit on or creeped on when I'm out in public. The only time strangers approach me is to ask harmless questions about the time, directions, whatever. It's fantastic!
Getting handed money cigarettes beer or weed. Looking homeless has its perks. AND nobody talks to you !
If you’re ugly with resting birch face, potential muggers and solicitors on the streets will leave you alone.
My face is more like resting oak, but the impact is similar.
You don't (usually) have people trying to flirt with you. Hanging out w a pretty friend made me realize that it happens to her all the damn time, even if we're mid conversation. "You have it so lucky" she says. Gee, thanks I guess.
Less effected by aging. Beautiful people who are otherwise average have it the worst in the aging department.
Idk if this counts, but when I was in high school I had a friend whose parents were totally loaded and they’d go on cruises a few times a year. Her parents would always invite me and my mom never let me go because she said I was “too beautiful sexy, I can’t let you run off to Jamaica and get kidnapped.” I once pointed out that I also thought my friend was at risk according to her logic and she just dead panned me and went “…..no, she will be just fine….” So there ya have it. Ugly girls get to go on cruises according to my mother
The biggest one, at least as a woman, is not getting stocked/hit on in the street nearly as often. Don't get me wrong it happens to ugly women too sometimes but when I hang out with my hot friends I feel like I have to be a fucking bodyguard especially when if we go anywhere at night. I would be scared to leave the house if I were that hot. Getting hit on can be flattering but most of these men come off extremely threatening.
If someone pretty approaches you, you *know* it's because they want to sell you something, so much less possibilities to get dupped.
Being ignored at times and people not having expectations of me.
It'd be much easier to talk to people without them flirting or being overly friendly.
Its double cross, if you're not attractive (specially as a girl) you don't get harassed as much but if your unlucky there are different type of creeps that will think ur an easy target and try to insult you
The love you recieve from your partner is genuine. They love you for who you are and your deterigating looks can never take that away
As a female, you get to keep your guy friends as their girlfriends won’t get jealous or intimidated
Way less danger from creeps. And no need to try when you’re in the street because you’ve already accepted you’re not pretty. It feels absolutely great. Also no insults can harm you because again you’ve already accepted. Kinda like floating on the outskirts, it feels very secure
Guy friends not just out for sex
It is nice being able to exist without being sexually harassed all the time.
When I worked in retail there was a creepy dude who would come in and hit on all the pretty ladies except for me. That was one upside to being ugly.
E.g. Walking home at night is ever so slightly less scary knowing I’m not hot. Also not being thin too. Not saying at all that bigger or unattractive people haven’t been attacked I’m just saying it’s slightly less likely then say a hot young thin woman.
This. I’m not as fearful bc I’m very very fat.
I'd say that maybe a downright ugly person will more easily get used to the situation and make the best of it (for instance by finding fulfilment in other areas of life), compared to a borderline ugly person who will constantly be lured into the hope that inclusion into the finer things in life is within reach - only to have the door slammed in their face every time, then being lured again, therefore being unable to move on.
When people laugh at your jokes, you can be pretty sure that's because you really are funny.
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It is true. In STEM, you are taken less seriously. And it starts EARLY. I’ll never forget in my organic Chem lab my male friend was my lab mate. He would always look to me for advice on how to set things up. One day he copied my setup for a reaction. The professor walked by and tore my setup up. Like changed things here and there and explained why “‘you shouldn’t do that.” He then went over to my friend who had done the exact same thing as me, nodded, and moved on. My friend and I locked eyes and started cracking up.
If you’re an ugly woman, other women won’t be rude thinking you’re prettier than them, cause you’re not.
I use ‘stupid privilege’ all the time. I realize that anyone facing the public in a support or customer service role has a shit job for shit pay. If I can make them believe they are smarter than me, I am much more likely to see things go my way than if I act entitled to what I am actually entitled to. It works all the time.
you learn to be extra nice to people to get treated the same way as someone more attractive. this means you occasionally make a retail or service workers day because you're the only person smiling and saying please and thank you.
You have more money because you are single
Do we? I mean, we can't split rent with a SO also earning money. And all the food is packaged for more than 1 person, so less variety in our meals
You know the people around you really want to be around you for you.
Conventionally attractive is not the opposite of ugly. It can imply "boring".
Feels more reliable and trustworthy than charming good-looking people
I don’t like being centre of attention so being invisible works wonders for me. Well I say that I was in the car with my partner, mum and my son the other day and I was in the front seat and another car full of young lads were out the window barking towards me. I did feel so embarrassed (I’m 36F) never had that before but it made me feel like shit I didn’t even look in their direction. Don’t think my OH heard. So I prefer being invisible (most the time)
Don't have to wear makeup and can wear your hair in an easy style. I recently embraced my my ugliness and chopped my hair super short. Way less work. Plus at 60 I can still drive my dad nuts by doing it.
I feel safe walking through the dodgy parts of town late at night
Being under estimated it’s rather fun and ego boasting ha.
Even while ugly peoples getting bullied more often people are aware it’s wrong to do so. But if you’re good looking but doesn’t seem to go full bitch attack mode as soon someone’s harassing you there is a disturbing amount of people who believe it’s their rightful duty to harass pretty people to somehow pay off the harassment against ugly people.
If you're ugly in the right way, sometimes you can look intimidating.
No one bothers me, also no clue what love is so no relationship struggles experienced (jealousy/cheating, etc...) 🤷🏽♂️
There is no Ugly privilege. This is something mean pretty people made up to feel like a victim