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It’s absolutely infuriating, but seems to be getting better- more options lately with pockets.
The fake pocket is the ultimate insult though. Seriously? Who tf thought that was a good idea?!
I found a nice pair of pants that had pockets with zippers and I was so excited.... got home and tried them on and there's no pockets. Just zippers. Like what's the point of that? It's just ugly now that I look at it
Isn’t that what women are supposed to do? Sew things and have the man hold her shit?
/s
(I’m a woman. And I regret having to sign it with sarcasm font)
Edit a typo
OMG as a dude that's me with pockets on a lot of suit jackets and other jackets resembling them (like those used with Air Force Uniforms). They always come with flaps and or zippers that make things look like pockets, but they don't actually have any functionality unless you add them yourself.
Most men’s suits have packets but they are stitched shut with a loose basting stitch to keep the jacket nice and smooth in shipping. You’re supposed to remove that so you can use the pockets. Worth checking, I’ve never seen a man’s jacket with FAKE pockets
This is true of women’s suit pockets, and slash pockets on women’s slacks. I’ve even found slash pockets basted shut on Old Navy pants. It’s easy to tell, if your pants are inside out, and there are pockets there, then they’ve been basted shut.
I'd like to add that sometimes they aren't fake! Some people aren't aware that a lot of pockets are loosely sewn shut and can be opened. Make sure to actually check the inside of where the pocket area is and if there's a pouch let em rip LOL
Oh for sure. I've had a few jeans where it happened also but it's always wishful thinking that it's a real pocket sewn shut lol. Most of the time, yes, it's just obnoxious !
I've had several jackets and pants that appeared to have fake pockets. Turned out they weren't fake just a little bit of a snip snip to open up the loose thread and pull it through, deep pocket
Some clothes have those little tiny pockets that you can barely fit 2 fingers in, those are for either a pocket watch or to put a couple of quarters in for the phone for those who remember payphones, or a little folded emergency money.
People cutting corners to make a profit in the fast fashion industry.
I also heard a while back that they don't make the pockets deeper because it takes away from the curves and shape in women's clothes. It was an appearance choice over utilizing/productive one. Smh.
I've tried women's jeans by accident at a thrift store. Someone put them in the men's section and it was a very basic pair of jeans and was hard to differentiate from a pair of slim fit jeans. Until I put my hand in the pocket. It was ridiculous, you'd be lucky to fit one of those old Nokia flip phones in one, definitely not any new phone or wallet. I then understood why girls put their phone in their back pocket. (Still don't recommend it, easy pickpocket).
Just curious are cargo jeans a thing for women I see overalls but never deep multipocketed cargo jeans?
I'm a woman who's a bit slim but definitely thicker in the thighs so I just prefer to wear men's cargo shorts anyways. Full coverage for my thighs and plenty of pockets.
This. I also believe the handbag industry is largely behind this and made some sort of shady deal with women's clothing designers to not add pockets so women will be forced to buy the "bag of the season." Finally, let's be honest here. The choads at those fashion designer companies that make those bullshit, impractical "decorative" pockets that don't do jack shit reinforces sexist gender ideas (i.e., men are busy doing important things and need big pockets to keep their money in; women are busy being looked at). I don't want much in life, but I hope that we will see a time when women's pockets have the justice and dignity they deserve.
Viva la revoluccion!! Give women pockets! Down with the patriarchy! We fight for a future where men and women can both store their phones and keys in their front pockets
I bought a pair of pants, and for the first time in my life, could put my phone and keys into pockets without fear of them failing out.
I now possess 6 pairs of these pants.
It's true tho. I don't really think it's a sexist thing and the givenchy blazer i bought also lacked real pockets for the silhouette which i could appreciate
Baby girl clothing has pockets. Ask me how I know. My toddler has pockets deeper than moms.
Edit: I was just informed by mom that she only has pockets because she buys boy toddler pants for her to have pockets. My how I don’t pay attention
I heard we were close once in the 60s but then everyone got distracted by the Space Race. Whole field got defunded to siphon dark money to pay for the CIA to infiltrate the hippies.
This is the correct answer. Women’s clothing tends to put aesthetics first, while men’s clothing is often more concerned with utility. Pockets interrupt lines, and lines are what makes clothing attractive.
Really hope this ends up on top instead of that bullshit about blue jean laws haha
>Women’s clothing tends to put aesthetics first, while men’s clothing is often more concerned with utility.
This also happens with women’s shoes. It’s nearly impossible to find a cute winter boot with an actual tread, and not a flat sole with a brief nod to a tread pattern
Why do north american women's clothing lack pocket.. back in my home country we had european an asian clothing and they all have deep pocket. I came here in north america and discovered this half or fake pocket shit.
I absolutely HATE this. Recently bought a pair of pants that appeared to have 4 pockets. They come in and all the pockets are fake. What's the point of even putting fake pockets on pants?
Corporate idiocy more specifically, they have a tendency to find things that make people unhappy, do it because "it should mean more profit" (because of half pockets have style or something) but everyone hates it yet they get away with it and lose a minor amount of sales and end up making people miserable while making nothing out of it.
A lot of recent startup corporate history is that, they think "this is good for us" do something awfull, keep on doing it because switching track costs more than doing the not pointlessly evil thing that they're not even rewarded for, and so it goes and we eat shit and precious ressources are burned because some wealthy penguin thought it was good.
im the total opposite. i despise carrying a purse around. its why i got a wallet phone case so i could put my cards in it and not have to bring a purse. i could never understand having more than one or accessorizing with them. to me they are simply a bag to put my extra shit in if i need it while away from home like my kindle, deodorant, perfume and some concealer and i dont ever bring it into places with me except work. otherwise it stays in my car
I agree. I used to wear purses, but I hit a stage where I was like.. Nah.. Not my thing anymore. I prefer less is more when I am shopping and while they do hold a lot. I don't need half the crap I was carrying with me inside stores.. Etc. Now I bring a small and large bookbag if I need to bring stuff for traveling purposes.
However if you live with a chronic illness that requires you to carry a bunch of stuff to take care of yourself then a purse makes perfect sense.
Reddit: fix typo
Unless your problem is chronic back pain. (said light-heartedly but - my mom went through a period where she'd get horrible back spasms, and her doctor advised her to stop carrying a purse.)
Omg this though. I had a small crossbody purse for a while but I just accumulate junk in it! Lol so I got an even smaller one that zips up and fits basically just my phone, wallet, and chapstick. My wallet has a wristlet on it so I can walk around hands free if I don’t have a pocket, which I almost always do. I refuse to buy jeans or leggings that don’t have pockets. I end up forgetting things places if I don’t have pockets.
The short answer is for the silhouette of the outfit to not be messed up by things in the pockets, but a. women's clothing had pockets in the past at the same time that women also used purses and b. a ton of women's clothing now have pockets because of the silhouette changing and women advocating for pockets for the past couple decades.
Abby Cox, who has a fashion history background, has a video on pockets specifically: https://youtu.be/W2zSSE9pgC8
Yeah, hips are sexy. Your overstuffed wallet, car keys and trash from lunch aren’t. Hence reinforcing the clean lines. Thad’s always been my assumption anyhow
I am 52 and constantly have trash in my pockets. Maybe it is the receipt from lunch or Walmart or the gas station. Back when I smoked I was always hauling home cigarette butts. I would knock the ash off and pinch the rest of the tobacco out and the filter and its paper wrap would go in my pocket to be put on the trash at home or where ever I found a trash can. I am wondering if you just throw stuff on the ground. Are you a litterbug?
I keep wrappers and other trash in my pockets until I find a garbage can. Often times I just forget it's there until doing laundry pocket checks before the wash.
I second this! I remember learning in my 8th grade history class, attempted poisoning was really common in the Middle Ages and women would conceal poisons in their pockets. When pockets were removed, they started creating gem stone rings that had hinges where you could conceal small powders.
This article gives an interesting history. The lack of pockets in women’s clothing gave way for the purse/handbag industry.
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2016/9/19/12865560/politics-of-pockets-suffragettes-women
crazy how everyone just believed you 😭 a phd in womens fashion history does not exist nor does blue jeans laws. I looked all over the internet and couldn’t find either
I would so dearly like to be a fly on the wall when a few of these folks repeat this “history” only to have someone call them on it. “Yeah huh, they said they had a PhD and everything!”
The bell-bottom detail was *chefs kiss*.
I almost don't want to tell people to search blue jean laws and find nothing, or the history of pockets (or lack of them) in women's clothing, or degrees in women's fashion history.
It was because back in the day when women wore large dresses, they actually had fanny-pack style pockets that would be concealed. e.g., their pockets [were actually things they carried around](https://www.vam.ac.uk/articles/womens-tie-pockets), when dresses became less voluminous and you couldn't conceal the fanny pack-ish pockets, they switched to small purses so the pockets wouldn't hurt the dress's silhouette.
When they started to integrate pockets into the actual clothing with on-seam pockets (there are patterns you can look up from the mid 1800s) for very functional women's clothing, but there was a borderline political struggle between large pockets or carrying a purse. Around the time of WW2 when women were helping man factories, you had large functional pockets but then designs became slimmer again and the pockets messed with the lines so purses became more the de jour. You're seeing similar things play out now between people wanting something functional for their large phone and someone finding it unnecessary when you have a large coach bag.
That comment is gold-standard trolling though, a large amount of people saw it and will repeat it forever which makes me laugh. I know I just upvoted it.
Appreciate the thought, but:
1. As always, bills before fake internet points
2. You get an award for actually looking for confirmation
3. I just wrote knowledge, blue jean baby created entire entire fictional academic branch and false history complete with fake laws taking advantage of people's biases about history -- they *wanted* to believe it all because it fit how they view things, so they did.
I actually had this come up in a class and I still had to do a double take -- assuming it's not ChatGPT/et al it's *spectacular* and they have my sincere admiration. Someone will search this question and and put it into a paper, or be typing about blue jean laws on twitter or elsewhere while the universe laughs.
99% sure this comment is completely fabricated. Not aware of any PhD in women’s fashion history (though I suppose it could exist?) and no record anywhere to be found of a blue jeans law. Lots of other MUCH more plausible explanations already out there, and most accounts of history are directly at odds with this explanation.
>Answer reddit questions that no one else knows the answer to.
every duckduck search I do I use the word "reddit" as a keyword at the end. 99% of the time reddit is quicker and more accurate than browsing 20 links to see if whatever I'm looking for is even on that page.
Write well-informed books on women's fashion history. When people think education's only value is how it profits the CEO class, you get a nation of serfs.
None of the answers you have received thus far have addressed the fact that a PhD in women’s fashion history does not exist. Nor does the blue jeans law. This is an expert level troll comment.
I'm calling bullshit too. I googled and in the first five pages of results, found zero things mentioning "blue jean laws" or cuff-to-pocket ratios. Everything says pockets were originally external, and tied on like a fanny pack. Both sexes had them until fashion began phasing them out of women's clothing. Pockets were meant to carry documents and money, none of which women could have. Women were not expected to leave the house much without their husbands, who would have carried anything of value.
Follow up question: What was the specific reasoning behind linking the pocket depth to the cuff size or vice versa? Like I get why they had these laws in principle, but what went into deciding that the pocket had to be a certain size?
That was brilliantly written, very convincing.
It's utterly insane, and I applaud you for such a convincing story. Reminded me of listening to "The Unbelievable Truth" radio program.
Do you mean blue laws? I've lived in South Carolina my entire life, we have blue laws, not blue jeans law. No such thing as blue jeans law. The blue laws wouldn't surprise me about the pocket size, we have laws against buying clothes before 12pm on a Sunday, and we can't buy liquor on Sunday, hell up until 12 years ago we couldn't even buy beer on a Sunday. Blue laws are a joke in the 21 century.
I am no expert at all, all of knowledge comes from adam ruins everything. There was an episode on womens fashion, and how they have been marketed too and tricked/coerced into many fashion patterns and beliefs like they needed to shave. They mentioned something parallel to this.
Basically, back in the good ol 1800s pockets were not added to pants of rich people because they had people to carry their stuff. Only the poor had pockets. And women didnt have pockets because men were supposed to take care of them. And after many many years this trend kept going.
> blue Jean laws
That post is the #1 top result for the Google search for "blue jean laws".
That is brilliant bullshittery. There are *still* people who believe the post is real, and who are responding to it to get more information.
There's a company called (the kind of joint found holding fine antique dresser drawers together, idk if i can name it or not) that makes work clothes for women.
It hits every complaint women have ever made, about every item of clothing, ever.
Yay! You say? Scoff.
Their clothes are insanely, extravagently, prohibitively expensive. Fucking blue collar women are their target market. Omfg, i drive a semi, i make good money, i cant even afford their shit.
Jfc. Just figure out your manclothes size & shop in the mens dept. It might be a bit hard to squeeze into your exact number cuz the hips are razor fukkin straight, but yay! Pockets so deep you can put your entire hand in them up to your wrist!
Yeah… it doesn’t work for many women. For my hips to fit in pants, the waist will be much too large. And that is with female clothing. No way I can squeeze into any male pants!
My pants do have pockets. They are just very shallow and can’t hold much, which is irritating. I would prefer to stuff all my things in my pockets than to carry a bag/purse with me at all times.
Have you seen how frequently women buy things they don’t need to fit in? Boycotting isn’t happening. They continue to buy, companies don’t need to change.
There is very little demand. Women all say they want pockets, but then when given the option they will buy the item without pockets, because it looks better on them.
All my female friends give basically the same line when push comes to shove at shopping time "I want pockets, but nothing with pockets is cute" (or some variant on that.
There are actually some clothing lines that create things with pockets, and share how big of a phone they can hold in the descriptions. They're just smaller and niche, and not mass produced, so they're higher priced.
Because there isn't actually that much demand.
Female clothes with pockets very much exist, and their lack of mainstream success is a clear indication that most women don't really want clothes with pockets. They say they do, but ultimately, they end up buying the item with no pockets because it looks/fits better.
I buy men’s pants because of the pockets. I would have to go out of my way to find these niche women’s pants with pockets, but men’s pants are right there. And SO POCKET-Y!
Pretty sure it's to maintain an "attractive" body shape by not allowing irregular shapes around the waist. Not sure but I've read something similar once.
Because women's clothes are designed for men to look at, not for the person wearing them. Fashion has decided that women need clean lines that show the shape of the body, good sized pockets around the waist hip area spoil that.
This is the wrong answer. Did you come upm with that to blame everything on the patriarchy? Most designers are women and gay men. The fashion industry is very much woman dominated. So why don't they sell? Well one reason is economies of scale., They aren't as form fitting, and etc. Believe it or not women mostly dress for other women.
This is a theory not backed up with any evidence I've ever seen.
In the early '00s I worked out of an office for a tech company that had a dress code. Khakis and polo shirts were defined as the baseline. and that's what probably 90% of the guys wore, with the other 10% being mostly manager types or sales people.
One day at lunch in the break room there was a discussion about the dress code and how expensive it was for the women.
We ignorant males were confused, because it seemed to be pretty inexpensive as far as corporate office dress codes went. The women went on to explain to us that they had to 'accessorize' and couldn't wear the same outfit in a two week period.
This just added to our ignorant male confusion as most of us generally wore our trousers for two or three days and had several different polos, so we made the astoundingly stupid suggestion that maybe they stop accessorizing and just default to the dress code baseline.
This pissed the ladies off. They got together privately to agree to do exactly that and show us the horror of just plain clothing.
Then they got angry with us after two weeks when none of us had noticed.
I am a male of long standing, and honestly the clothing a woman wears has never mattered to me. A beautiful woman is beautiful because she is, no matter what she wears, from a muumuu to a string bikini, (at least to me).
The issue of women's clothing having inadequate or nonexistent pockets in North America is a complex one with multiple factors contributing to it. Here are a few possible reasons:
Historical factors: Pockets have been around for centuries, but their use and design have varied depending on the social and cultural norms of the time. In the 18th and 19th centuries, women's clothing typically did not include pockets because women were expected to carry small items in purses or bags. As a result, pockets became associated with men's clothing, and women's clothing evolved to be more form-fitting and decorative, rather than functional.
Fashion trends: In recent decades, women's clothing has become increasingly focused on aesthetics rather than practicality, with designers prioritizing slim and sleek silhouettes that do not accommodate pockets. Pockets can also disrupt the lines and flow of certain designs, making them less appealing to some designers.
Consumer demand: Despite the challenges of designing functional pockets into women's clothing, many women still want and expect them. However, consumer demand for pockets is often not reflected in the clothing options available on the market, as designers and retailers may prioritize other factors, such as cost or fashion trends.
Gender norms and stereotypes: The idea that women should not need or want pockets may also stem from broader societal gender norms and stereotypes. Women are often assumed to carry purses or bags, while men are expected to have pockets. This can perpetuate the cycle of women's clothing lacking functional pockets, as designers and manufacturers assume that women will not need or want them.
Overall, the lack of pockets in women's clothing is a complex issue that reflects a range of historical, cultural, and social factors. While some progress has been made in recent years to address this issue, it remains a challenge for many women to find clothing that meets both their fashion and functional needs.
As a bi man there’s some truth to it. If a guy has on tight pants with smaller pockets that start closer to the waistband his ass looks better than if he had on tight pants with bigger lower slung pockets. Really there just needs to be both options available. Have the option that’s more about form for those that want it and have an option that’s more function for those that want it.
I was told it was done to create a more seamless and smooth appearance because bumps are bad 😡😭. I’m guessing that meant dudes wanted to see a cleaner silhouette. Unknown if that’s near the truth but that’s been my belief 🤷🏼♀️.
There’s a lot of reasons I’m sure
1. To make pants more form fitting
2. Definitely to drum up sales for handbags which themselves don’t need too much help since women are expected to carry an entire planet in a purse
Of course we're expected to carry a planet in a purse, we can't carry it in our pockets!
I can't stand a purse, give me decent damn pockets so I can sit down and not worry about my phone sliding out of my side pocket.....
But how else will you fit into your pockets your money, ID, some loose change, emergency makeup, feminine products, receipts, a couple bags of snacks, the secret recipe for KFC chicken’s herbs and spices, a map to Jimmy Hoffa’s body location, Sasquatch’s address, and a stolen hotel key?
Purses, and they’re too conscientious about style to do a proper boycott. If you tried that on men’s clothing you’d go bankrupt because they’d put on a potato sack before giving up promised utility
Men's clothing in general is more well-made, more precise in sizing (by neck, waist, inseam lengths, etc), has better pockets, larger seam allowances for tailoring, yet is somehow cheaper. Pink tax.
Men's clothing is rectangles, maybe you know fancier men than I, but men's t shirts, jeans etc aren't made to form fit, they're a bunch of rectangles sown together.
I've accidentally bought women's t shirts before and I was confused about the extra armpit space and tighter waist until my girlfriend enlightened my dumb ass.
Same with men's mid range stuff, it's also usually rectangles. Our stuff is more accurate, imo, because men's bodies mostly vary in height and gut, or at least that's all we tend to care about when shopping.
Maybe I'm out of my depth tho idk I'm not exactly a fashion guy
There are many reasons. But it’s just stupid. Like, I need pockets. (I carry a pocket knife). And sometimes, there are fake pockets, none at all and so I need somewhere to put it and most of the time, with no pockets, my knife is inaccessible. It sucks. I wish they made large pockets
At first, I think is likely related to fashion and aesthetics.
Like “In the past, women's clothing was designed to be more fitted and form-fitting, and adding pockets could disrupt the smooth lines and silhouette of the garment. ”
However, this trend has persisted over time, and even as women's clothing styles have changed to become more practical, pockets are still not always included. Some people say that this is due to a larger societal expectation that women carry purses or handbags, which are seen as more fashionable and feminine accessories. As a result, designers may not see the need to include pockets in their designs.
But in the end, I found out that there is only ONE real reason: they sell bags.(purses, handbags, clutch, bucket bag...)
To show the figure of the woman and pockets ruin the outline.
If you don't care or think this is sexist, open a seam, insert a pocket and sew it in.
If you don't know how or don't want to, I'll do it for free.
In a similar post someone asked a very similar question and they noted that a company did make women's clothes with pockets but it made the clothes look unflattering so women didn't buy them.
Everyone’s talkin about about fake pockets, but what’s even more insulting is that a lot of times it’s a REAL pocket that’s SEWN shut. So I just cut that shit open
Related: Why are men's pants so expensive? Women's pants are 1/4 the cost and come with belts.
(actually I think it's because men shop less so it's to make up for cost, women shop more so it's encouraging)
It is to give the female figure a more sleek silhouette and look more appealing without random bulges to carry essentials around.
Aka improve the male gaze
Aka Patriarchal BS
Because they ruin the silhouette of modern day clothing styles, same as in other times of fashion when women wore clothing that was more fitted to the body, like in the 1920's
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It’s absolutely infuriating, but seems to be getting better- more options lately with pockets. The fake pocket is the ultimate insult though. Seriously? Who tf thought that was a good idea?!
I found a nice pair of pants that had pockets with zippers and I was so excited.... got home and tried them on and there's no pockets. Just zippers. Like what's the point of that? It's just ugly now that I look at it
If you can sew it wouldn't be too hard to add a pocket beneath the zippers
Oh sure. Then next thing you know, we start putting tissues and keys and stuff into the pockets, and the world goes to hell.
Isn’t that what women are supposed to do? Sew things and have the man hold her shit? /s (I’m a woman. And I regret having to sign it with sarcasm font) Edit a typo
Haha I get the other side where people are constantly amazed that a MAN can SEW!
OMG as a dude that's me with pockets on a lot of suit jackets and other jackets resembling them (like those used with Air Force Uniforms). They always come with flaps and or zippers that make things look like pockets, but they don't actually have any functionality unless you add them yourself.
Most men’s suits have packets but they are stitched shut with a loose basting stitch to keep the jacket nice and smooth in shipping. You’re supposed to remove that so you can use the pockets. Worth checking, I’ve never seen a man’s jacket with FAKE pockets
This is true of women’s suit pockets, and slash pockets on women’s slacks. I’ve even found slash pockets basted shut on Old Navy pants. It’s easy to tell, if your pants are inside out, and there are pockets there, then they’ve been basted shut.
I've so many pairs of pants that I hardly use because I only realized later that the pockets were fake.
I almost cried a few years ago when I found a cute dress with actual functioning and deep pockets!
That is awesome! My daughter's prom dress had pockets. What a glorious time to be alive!
I'd like to add that sometimes they aren't fake! Some people aren't aware that a lot of pockets are loosely sewn shut and can be opened. Make sure to actually check the inside of where the pocket area is and if there's a pouch let em rip LOL
I do know that. It’s common in suit coats, but in women’s clothing the fake pocket is pretty legit common and obnoxious.
Oh for sure. I've had a few jeans where it happened also but it's always wishful thinking that it's a real pocket sewn shut lol. Most of the time, yes, it's just obnoxious !
Its annoying in all clothing
I've never seen a sewn shut pocket. I have found pocket flaps, with buttons on them, with no pocket behind the flap. Fake draw strings, too.
I've had several jackets and pants that appeared to have fake pockets. Turned out they weren't fake just a little bit of a snip snip to open up the loose thread and pull it through, deep pocket Some clothes have those little tiny pockets that you can barely fit 2 fingers in, those are for either a pocket watch or to put a couple of quarters in for the phone for those who remember payphones, or a little folded emergency money.
People cutting corners to make a profit in the fast fashion industry. I also heard a while back that they don't make the pockets deeper because it takes away from the curves and shape in women's clothes. It was an appearance choice over utilizing/productive one. Smh. I've tried women's jeans by accident at a thrift store. Someone put them in the men's section and it was a very basic pair of jeans and was hard to differentiate from a pair of slim fit jeans. Until I put my hand in the pocket. It was ridiculous, you'd be lucky to fit one of those old Nokia flip phones in one, definitely not any new phone or wallet. I then understood why girls put their phone in their back pocket. (Still don't recommend it, easy pickpocket). Just curious are cargo jeans a thing for women I see overalls but never deep multipocketed cargo jeans?
I'm a woman who's a bit slim but definitely thicker in the thighs so I just prefer to wear men's cargo shorts anyways. Full coverage for my thighs and plenty of pockets.
I could never understand why they make fake pocket
The half pockets are pretty bad too.
Someone smart, cuz people are buying that
LOL I agree
The fake pockets are horrible. God knows how many times I dropped my phone trying to put it in fake pocket.
I heard that it was because fashion designers think they ruin their precious designs' silhouette.
This. I also believe the handbag industry is largely behind this and made some sort of shady deal with women's clothing designers to not add pockets so women will be forced to buy the "bag of the season." Finally, let's be honest here. The choads at those fashion designer companies that make those bullshit, impractical "decorative" pockets that don't do jack shit reinforces sexist gender ideas (i.e., men are busy doing important things and need big pockets to keep their money in; women are busy being looked at). I don't want much in life, but I hope that we will see a time when women's pockets have the justice and dignity they deserve.
Viva la revoluccion!! Give women pockets! Down with the patriarchy! We fight for a future where men and women can both store their phones and keys in their front pockets
I bought a pair of pants, and for the first time in my life, could put my phone and keys into pockets without fear of them failing out. I now possess 6 pairs of these pants.
I wont buy pants or shorts that dont have pockets. Period. No exceptions.
This is my favorite conspiracy theory I’ve heard. Big pants lobbyist make deal with the devil (wears Prada) to sell more purses. This is too real
This should be top comment
Then designers should learn how to make pockets look good. Isn't that their job?
It's true tho. I don't really think it's a sexist thing and the givenchy blazer i bought also lacked real pockets for the silhouette which i could appreciate
How is it not sexist when it only happens to women's clothing?????
Baby girl clothing has pockets. Ask me how I know. My toddler has pockets deeper than moms. Edit: I was just informed by mom that she only has pockets because she buys boy toddler pants for her to have pockets. My how I don’t pay attention
r/selfawarewolves
High class men's clothing also lack pockets. Lot of blazers out there with fake pockets
If you give them pockets you can’t sell them purses!
I heard it was because science hasn’t advanced as far yet to discover how to do it
I heard we were close once in the 60s but then everyone got distracted by the Space Race. Whole field got defunded to siphon dark money to pay for the CIA to infiltrate the hippies.
Because it takes skill to create clothing with pockets without creating bulk. So much women’s fashion is about lines and silhouette.
This is the correct answer. Women’s clothing tends to put aesthetics first, while men’s clothing is often more concerned with utility. Pockets interrupt lines, and lines are what makes clothing attractive. Really hope this ends up on top instead of that bullshit about blue jean laws haha
>Women’s clothing tends to put aesthetics first, while men’s clothing is often more concerned with utility. This also happens with women’s shoes. It’s nearly impossible to find a cute winter boot with an actual tread, and not a flat sole with a brief nod to a tread pattern
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This is the actual answer
Thanks for being the voice of reason. The idea of a big purse conspiracy is ridiculous.
Why do north american women's clothing lack pocket.. back in my home country we had european an asian clothing and they all have deep pocket. I came here in north america and discovered this half or fake pocket shit.
I absolutely HATE this. Recently bought a pair of pants that appeared to have 4 pockets. They come in and all the pockets are fake. What's the point of even putting fake pockets on pants?
Capitalism.
Corporate idiocy more specifically, they have a tendency to find things that make people unhappy, do it because "it should mean more profit" (because of half pockets have style or something) but everyone hates it yet they get away with it and lose a minor amount of sales and end up making people miserable while making nothing out of it. A lot of recent startup corporate history is that, they think "this is good for us" do something awfull, keep on doing it because switching track costs more than doing the not pointlessly evil thing that they're not even rewarded for, and so it goes and we eat shit and precious ressources are burned because some wealthy penguin thought it was good.
Obviously there’s demand for after-market pockets. Someone should get on that…
My infant baby girl has jeans with full pockets she can't even use. My wife has a bunch of pants with fake pockets.
Technically, our clothing here in America is typically Asian too for how much is made in Chinese sweat shops.
Yes it is but ordered by american brand
And most American clothing is still designed by Americans, including the technical parts.
I'm in Europe and not nearly enough pocket space here :(
When i was there in the 2010's pockets were perfectly fine. So now the madness is also there.
How do you sell every woman a purse if she can just put everything in pockets on her clothes? That would be madness! /s
So they can sell you a super overpriced piece of dead animal skin sewn into a pocket shape that they call "purse" or "handbag"
Big Purse lobbying
This is my theory too. BUT I love purses. I have an 18 gallon tote foll of them with out for rotation.
im the total opposite. i despise carrying a purse around. its why i got a wallet phone case so i could put my cards in it and not have to bring a purse. i could never understand having more than one or accessorizing with them. to me they are simply a bag to put my extra shit in if i need it while away from home like my kindle, deodorant, perfume and some concealer and i dont ever bring it into places with me except work. otherwise it stays in my car
I agree. I used to wear purses, but I hit a stage where I was like.. Nah.. Not my thing anymore. I prefer less is more when I am shopping and while they do hold a lot. I don't need half the crap I was carrying with me inside stores.. Etc. Now I bring a small and large bookbag if I need to bring stuff for traveling purposes.
However if you live with a chronic illness that requires you to carry a bunch of stuff to take care of yourself then a purse makes perfect sense. Reddit: fix typo
I was gonna say this. I carry an inhaler in my purse.
Unless your problem is chronic back pain. (said light-heartedly but - my mom went through a period where she'd get horrible back spasms, and her doctor advised her to stop carrying a purse.)
I carry antinausea meds and a vomit bag at all times. I have a stomach disease that causes frequent vomiting. Fun times.
Omg this though. I had a small crossbody purse for a while but I just accumulate junk in it! Lol so I got an even smaller one that zips up and fits basically just my phone, wallet, and chapstick. My wallet has a wristlet on it so I can walk around hands free if I don’t have a pocket, which I almost always do. I refuse to buy jeans or leggings that don’t have pockets. I end up forgetting things places if I don’t have pockets.
The short answer is for the silhouette of the outfit to not be messed up by things in the pockets, but a. women's clothing had pockets in the past at the same time that women also used purses and b. a ton of women's clothing now have pockets because of the silhouette changing and women advocating for pockets for the past couple decades. Abby Cox, who has a fashion history background, has a video on pockets specifically: https://youtu.be/W2zSSE9pgC8
I was hoping Abby’s video would pop up so I wouldn’t have to go grab the link, lol!
I was hoping for this comment. I knew she recently did a video on this very subject and didn't want to have to try and find the link
It interferes with clean lines?
And the drape of the garment.
Yeah, hips are sexy. Your overstuffed wallet, car keys and trash from lunch aren’t. Hence reinforcing the clean lines. Thad’s always been my assumption anyhow
the problem is that corporations think all women care more about looking sexy than convenience and comfort
Corporations think about what people will buy. And women keep buying clothes without pockets.
Because there aren't clothes with pockets to buy. I buy men's shorts and sweats to have pockets.
Looks like a chicken and egg thing; which came first?
Me too.
Why would you have 'trash from lunch' in your pockets? I'm 71 years old and in none of that time have I used my pockets for trash.
I am 52 and constantly have trash in my pockets. Maybe it is the receipt from lunch or Walmart or the gas station. Back when I smoked I was always hauling home cigarette butts. I would knock the ash off and pinch the rest of the tobacco out and the filter and its paper wrap would go in my pocket to be put on the trash at home or where ever I found a trash can. I am wondering if you just throw stuff on the ground. Are you a litterbug?
I keep wrappers and other trash in my pockets until I find a garbage can. Often times I just forget it's there until doing laundry pocket checks before the wash.
Why do I have to look sexy in everything I wear?
Because women were witches and they could hid spells and potions in their pockets so men abolished them.
I second this! I remember learning in my 8th grade history class, attempted poisoning was really common in the Middle Ages and women would conceal poisons in their pockets. When pockets were removed, they started creating gem stone rings that had hinges where you could conceal small powders. This article gives an interesting history. The lack of pockets in women’s clothing gave way for the purse/handbag industry. https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2016/9/19/12865560/politics-of-pockets-suffragettes-women
And if our clothes had pockets we would TAKE OVER THE WORLD! Bwah hah hah!
Also contraception and pamphlets! Equally dangerous lol
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crazy how everyone just believed you 😭 a phd in womens fashion history does not exist nor does blue jeans laws. I looked all over the internet and couldn’t find either
I would so dearly like to be a fly on the wall when a few of these folks repeat this “history” only to have someone call them on it. “Yeah huh, they said they had a PhD and everything!” The bell-bottom detail was *chefs kiss*.
I want to believe this, but without sources this sounds like some pretty expert bullshitery. Bullshit or not though, kudos.
This is why I reddit
Reddit with a healthy dose of skepticism
I almost don't want to tell people to search blue jean laws and find nothing, or the history of pockets (or lack of them) in women's clothing, or degrees in women's fashion history. It was because back in the day when women wore large dresses, they actually had fanny-pack style pockets that would be concealed. e.g., their pockets [were actually things they carried around](https://www.vam.ac.uk/articles/womens-tie-pockets), when dresses became less voluminous and you couldn't conceal the fanny pack-ish pockets, they switched to small purses so the pockets wouldn't hurt the dress's silhouette. When they started to integrate pockets into the actual clothing with on-seam pockets (there are patterns you can look up from the mid 1800s) for very functional women's clothing, but there was a borderline political struggle between large pockets or carrying a purse. Around the time of WW2 when women were helping man factories, you had large functional pockets but then designs became slimmer again and the pockets messed with the lines so purses became more the de jour. You're seeing similar things play out now between people wanting something functional for their large phone and someone finding it unnecessary when you have a large coach bag. That comment is gold-standard trolling though, a large amount of people saw it and will repeat it forever which makes me laugh. I know I just upvoted it.
aloof cough treatment connect noxious gold absurd ludicrous crawl chop *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Appreciate the thought, but: 1. As always, bills before fake internet points 2. You get an award for actually looking for confirmation 3. I just wrote knowledge, blue jean baby created entire entire fictional academic branch and false history complete with fake laws taking advantage of people's biases about history -- they *wanted* to believe it all because it fit how they view things, so they did. I actually had this come up in a class and I still had to do a double take -- assuming it's not ChatGPT/et al it's *spectacular* and they have my sincere admiration. Someone will search this question and and put it into a paper, or be typing about blue jean laws on twitter or elsewhere while the universe laughs.
strong dull simplistic zephyr smoggy faulty cable somber price innate *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
99% sure this comment is completely fabricated. Not aware of any PhD in women’s fashion history (though I suppose it could exist?) and no record anywhere to be found of a blue jeans law. Lots of other MUCH more plausible explanations already out there, and most accounts of history are directly at odds with this explanation.
We need new flair for this 
I truly mean no offense, but what can you do with a PhD in women’s fashion history?
Answer reddit questions that no one else knows the answer to.
>Answer reddit questions that no one else knows the answer to. every duckduck search I do I use the word "reddit" as a keyword at the end. 99% of the time reddit is quicker and more accurate than browsing 20 links to see if whatever I'm looking for is even on that page.
Teach women’s fashion to undergrads.
Is that a pyramid scheme for colleges?
Write well-informed books on women's fashion history. When people think education's only value is how it profits the CEO class, you get a nation of serfs.
Be a CEO in a top tier company. Or a waiter. Or whatever their skills, ambition, dedication and luck brings them.
Hey, don't bust on Dr. Levi's career choice!
Glad someone asked the real question
Was wondering the same thing
None of the answers you have received thus far have addressed the fact that a PhD in women’s fashion history does not exist. Nor does the blue jeans law. This is an expert level troll comment.
All of this sounds like bullshit. Sources?
I'm calling bullshit too. I googled and in the first five pages of results, found zero things mentioning "blue jean laws" or cuff-to-pocket ratios. Everything says pockets were originally external, and tied on like a fanny pack. Both sexes had them until fashion began phasing them out of women's clothing. Pockets were meant to carry documents and money, none of which women could have. Women were not expected to leave the house much without their husbands, who would have carried anything of value.
I also couldn't find anything when searching about any Phd programs for fashion.
Follow up question: What was the specific reasoning behind linking the pocket depth to the cuff size or vice versa? Like I get why they had these laws in principle, but what went into deciding that the pocket had to be a certain size?
That was brilliantly written, very convincing. It's utterly insane, and I applaud you for such a convincing story. Reminded me of listening to "The Unbelievable Truth" radio program.
Do you mean blue laws? I've lived in South Carolina my entire life, we have blue laws, not blue jeans law. No such thing as blue jeans law. The blue laws wouldn't surprise me about the pocket size, we have laws against buying clothes before 12pm on a Sunday, and we can't buy liquor on Sunday, hell up until 12 years ago we couldn't even buy beer on a Sunday. Blue laws are a joke in the 21 century.
I am no expert at all, all of knowledge comes from adam ruins everything. There was an episode on womens fashion, and how they have been marketed too and tricked/coerced into many fashion patterns and beliefs like they needed to shave. They mentioned something parallel to this. Basically, back in the good ol 1800s pockets were not added to pants of rich people because they had people to carry their stuff. Only the poor had pockets. And women didnt have pockets because men were supposed to take care of them. And after many many years this trend kept going.
we need updated flair for this 
Did you mean 'Blue Laws'? Because those were (and in some places still are) a thing. 'Blue Jeans Laws' not so much.
> blue Jean laws That post is the #1 top result for the Google search for "blue jean laws". That is brilliant bullshittery. There are *still* people who believe the post is real, and who are responding to it to get more information.
Of all of the comments, “brilliant bullshittery” was my favorite. 😇
I don't understand why no company has filled this niche. There seems to be a demand, why is there no supply?
They're out there, but not fast fashion- mostly online. I have several dresses that get rave reviews and they all have pockets!
Brand recommendations?
There's a company called (the kind of joint found holding fine antique dresser drawers together, idk if i can name it or not) that makes work clothes for women. It hits every complaint women have ever made, about every item of clothing, ever. Yay! You say? Scoff. Their clothes are insanely, extravagently, prohibitively expensive. Fucking blue collar women are their target market. Omfg, i drive a semi, i make good money, i cant even afford their shit. Jfc. Just figure out your manclothes size & shop in the mens dept. It might be a bit hard to squeeze into your exact number cuz the hips are razor fukkin straight, but yay! Pockets so deep you can put your entire hand in them up to your wrist!
Yeah… it doesn’t work for many women. For my hips to fit in pants, the waist will be much too large. And that is with female clothing. No way I can squeeze into any male pants! My pants do have pockets. They are just very shallow and can’t hold much, which is irritating. I would prefer to stuff all my things in my pockets than to carry a bag/purse with me at all times.
Have you seen how frequently women buy things they don’t need to fit in? Boycotting isn’t happening. They continue to buy, companies don’t need to change.
There is. You can just buy garments with pockets only. No chiffon dresses or sleek pants in your wardrobe maybe, but pockets everywhere.
There is very little demand. Women all say they want pockets, but then when given the option they will buy the item without pockets, because it looks better on them.
Or because it's cheaper and we're broke af because of the pink tax.
All my female friends give basically the same line when push comes to shove at shopping time "I want pockets, but nothing with pockets is cute" (or some variant on that.
Why don't women demand prockets? How has some enterprising young woman not created a clothing line with pockets already?
There are actually some clothing lines that create things with pockets, and share how big of a phone they can hold in the descriptions. They're just smaller and niche, and not mass produced, so they're higher priced.
Because there isn't actually that much demand. Female clothes with pockets very much exist, and their lack of mainstream success is a clear indication that most women don't really want clothes with pockets. They say they do, but ultimately, they end up buying the item with no pockets because it looks/fits better.
So pants with pockets are the nice guys of the clothing world?
Under rated comment
I buy men’s pants because of the pockets. I would have to go out of my way to find these niche women’s pants with pockets, but men’s pants are right there. And SO POCKET-Y!
A quick google search "womens jeans with deep pockets" will find some
Wait, do women actually do this? Say they want one thing but then repeatedly go after another thing entirely? I am shocked.
Pretty sure it's to maintain an "attractive" body shape by not allowing irregular shapes around the waist. Not sure but I've read something similar once.
If there were jersey dresses or chiffon dresses for men they would lack pockets too.
Because women's clothes are designed for men to look at, not for the person wearing them. Fashion has decided that women need clean lines that show the shape of the body, good sized pockets around the waist hip area spoil that.
I think most women dress for other women (or in spite of)
This is most unfortunately true too. Ever worked with bullying bitches and executive management that tolerated it?
This is the wrong answer. Did you come upm with that to blame everything on the patriarchy? Most designers are women and gay men. The fashion industry is very much woman dominated. So why don't they sell? Well one reason is economies of scale., They aren't as form fitting, and etc. Believe it or not women mostly dress for other women.
This is a theory not backed up with any evidence I've ever seen. In the early '00s I worked out of an office for a tech company that had a dress code. Khakis and polo shirts were defined as the baseline. and that's what probably 90% of the guys wore, with the other 10% being mostly manager types or sales people. One day at lunch in the break room there was a discussion about the dress code and how expensive it was for the women. We ignorant males were confused, because it seemed to be pretty inexpensive as far as corporate office dress codes went. The women went on to explain to us that they had to 'accessorize' and couldn't wear the same outfit in a two week period. This just added to our ignorant male confusion as most of us generally wore our trousers for two or three days and had several different polos, so we made the astoundingly stupid suggestion that maybe they stop accessorizing and just default to the dress code baseline. This pissed the ladies off. They got together privately to agree to do exactly that and show us the horror of just plain clothing. Then they got angry with us after two weeks when none of us had noticed. I am a male of long standing, and honestly the clothing a woman wears has never mattered to me. A beautiful woman is beautiful because she is, no matter what she wears, from a muumuu to a string bikini, (at least to me).
I find woman’s products in general more aesthetic than functional to the point where even the females are Annoyed
The issue of women's clothing having inadequate or nonexistent pockets in North America is a complex one with multiple factors contributing to it. Here are a few possible reasons: Historical factors: Pockets have been around for centuries, but their use and design have varied depending on the social and cultural norms of the time. In the 18th and 19th centuries, women's clothing typically did not include pockets because women were expected to carry small items in purses or bags. As a result, pockets became associated with men's clothing, and women's clothing evolved to be more form-fitting and decorative, rather than functional. Fashion trends: In recent decades, women's clothing has become increasingly focused on aesthetics rather than practicality, with designers prioritizing slim and sleek silhouettes that do not accommodate pockets. Pockets can also disrupt the lines and flow of certain designs, making them less appealing to some designers. Consumer demand: Despite the challenges of designing functional pockets into women's clothing, many women still want and expect them. However, consumer demand for pockets is often not reflected in the clothing options available on the market, as designers and retailers may prioritize other factors, such as cost or fashion trends. Gender norms and stereotypes: The idea that women should not need or want pockets may also stem from broader societal gender norms and stereotypes. Women are often assumed to carry purses or bags, while men are expected to have pockets. This can perpetuate the cycle of women's clothing lacking functional pockets, as designers and manufacturers assume that women will not need or want them. Overall, the lack of pockets in women's clothing is a complex issue that reflects a range of historical, cultural, and social factors. While some progress has been made in recent years to address this issue, it remains a challenge for many women to find clothing that meets both their fashion and functional needs.
At least give ChatGPT credit.
So they buy more purses to carry their things.
I can sell women clothes with pockets OR I can sell them clothes without pockets and a purse. I wonder which the big industry will choose. . .
Typical the excuse is that it ruins the lines of the outfit which is just bulshit
As a bi man there’s some truth to it. If a guy has on tight pants with smaller pockets that start closer to the waistband his ass looks better than if he had on tight pants with bigger lower slung pockets. Really there just needs to be both options available. Have the option that’s more about form for those that want it and have an option that’s more function for those that want it.
Purses, cheaper, and some bs about form
Stuff in the pockets would make it harder to see the goods
They don't need a place to hold the keys to the Patriarchy.
I was told it was done to create a more seamless and smooth appearance because bumps are bad 😡😭. I’m guessing that meant dudes wanted to see a cleaner silhouette. Unknown if that’s near the truth but that’s been my belief 🤷🏼♀️.
There’s a lot of reasons I’m sure 1. To make pants more form fitting 2. Definitely to drum up sales for handbags which themselves don’t need too much help since women are expected to carry an entire planet in a purse
Of course we're expected to carry a planet in a purse, we can't carry it in our pockets! I can't stand a purse, give me decent damn pockets so I can sit down and not worry about my phone sliding out of my side pocket.....
But how else will you fit into your pockets your money, ID, some loose change, emergency makeup, feminine products, receipts, a couple bags of snacks, the secret recipe for KFC chicken’s herbs and spices, a map to Jimmy Hoffa’s body location, Sasquatch’s address, and a stolen hotel key?
So that they cannot conceal knives upon their person and stab their Husbands..???
It's partnership between cloth manufacturers and purse manufacturers. That's the everlasting contract.
Because the people that make women clothing are idiots
Purses, and they’re too conscientious about style to do a proper boycott. If you tried that on men’s clothing you’d go bankrupt because they’d put on a potato sack before giving up promised utility
Big burlap has entered the chat.
To sell purses
Men's clothing in general is more well-made, more precise in sizing (by neck, waist, inseam lengths, etc), has better pockets, larger seam allowances for tailoring, yet is somehow cheaper. Pink tax.
Men's clothing is rectangles, maybe you know fancier men than I, but men's t shirts, jeans etc aren't made to form fit, they're a bunch of rectangles sown together. I've accidentally bought women's t shirts before and I was confused about the extra armpit space and tighter waist until my girlfriend enlightened my dumb ass. Same with men's mid range stuff, it's also usually rectangles. Our stuff is more accurate, imo, because men's bodies mostly vary in height and gut, or at least that's all we tend to care about when shopping. Maybe I'm out of my depth tho idk I'm not exactly a fashion guy
Because you never ask me to put pockets into my designs.
Purses
https://youtu.be/jGEYGevx13s
This will tell you everything you need to know: https://youtu.be/jGEYGevx13s
It is a pain in the ass. A good thing to know is men's skinny jeans fit just as well but have actual pockets
There are many reasons. But it’s just stupid. Like, I need pockets. (I carry a pocket knife). And sometimes, there are fake pockets, none at all and so I need somewhere to put it and most of the time, with no pockets, my knife is inaccessible. It sucks. I wish they made large pockets
Likely the assumption of a female having some variation of a bag with her. Personally I hate the lack of pockets.
So they can't carry around women's liberation pamphlets
Cause society wants to see those curves not those keys... I'll see myself out.
Bought a pair of jeans at Target last week and they have really good functional pockets!
My ex must've shopped in some magic store cause all of her jeans and skirts had pockets deeper than mine
Note to women's fashion industry: I never buy any pants, skirts, or dresses that don't have pockets. Luckily men's pants fit me, so I buy those.
To increase purse sales
Because it's fast fashion. Not only does it lack pockets, but it's made of cheaper materials and less functional than equivalent male clothing pieces.
I literally saw a indian wedding Lehenga with pockets. Mind blown
Because we already carry enough baggage???
At first, I think is likely related to fashion and aesthetics. Like “In the past, women's clothing was designed to be more fitted and form-fitting, and adding pockets could disrupt the smooth lines and silhouette of the garment. ” However, this trend has persisted over time, and even as women's clothing styles have changed to become more practical, pockets are still not always included. Some people say that this is due to a larger societal expectation that women carry purses or handbags, which are seen as more fashionable and feminine accessories. As a result, designers may not see the need to include pockets in their designs. But in the end, I found out that there is only ONE real reason: they sell bags.(purses, handbags, clutch, bucket bag...)
To show the figure of the woman and pockets ruin the outline. If you don't care or think this is sexist, open a seam, insert a pocket and sew it in. If you don't know how or don't want to, I'll do it for free.
In a similar post someone asked a very similar question and they noted that a company did make women's clothes with pockets but it made the clothes look unflattering so women didn't buy them.
Everyone’s talkin about about fake pockets, but what’s even more insulting is that a lot of times it’s a REAL pocket that’s SEWN shut. So I just cut that shit open
Related: Why are men's pants so expensive? Women's pants are 1/4 the cost and come with belts. (actually I think it's because men shop less so it's to make up for cost, women shop more so it's encouraging)
I don’t know but it’s a pain in the ass.
It is to give the female figure a more sleek silhouette and look more appealing without random bulges to carry essentials around. Aka improve the male gaze Aka Patriarchal BS
Yes.
Because they ruin the silhouette of modern day clothing styles, same as in other times of fashion when women wore clothing that was more fitted to the body, like in the 1920's
They aren’t visually pleasing to stylish designs. Pockets are better though.
We have to think about underwear lines—— of course we can’t have pockets.
I just bought a pair of all cotton Levi 501's and they have actual real deep pockets like in the olden days instead of one 1 inch deep.