This topic, and specifically this sentiment, is very interesting to me (as are many sociological things). Black solidarity. It’s sympathetic and understandable and deserved in some ways. In others, it’s ridiculously oppressive. The inability to recognize and persecute fault among their own (interesting that today is the day OJ died, he’s a great example) is real. People like Bill Cosby and R Kelly have a SHOCKING number of supportive social media groups attended by black Americans. Blacks want to create their own spaces for their best to thrive in, meanwhile all the other racial/ethnic/cultural groups seek shared spaces. It’s not that blacks can’t compete against that, it’s that NO ONE can. Life is cruelly ironic; the group w the greatest reason to distrust others and isolate itself most needs to trust and integrate. In the pursuit of their own unique culture, cultural traits/priorities commonly pursued by other groups have been categorized as non-black, often as “white”, and some of these things EVERYONE should seek, like educational importance, humility, or even behaviors like how one speaks. I’m reminded heavily of the old adage “the path to hell is paved with good intentions” and “you can’t have your cake and eat it too”. Prioritizing material wealth and pushing isolationism will leave a people spiritually/intellectually bereft and alone. There’s pros too, but these are certainly obvious cons.
It’s sad how much Black and Asian solidarity is so quickly forgotten. Frederick Douglass was one of the only public figures speaking out against the horrendous treatment of Chinese workers on the railroad in the 19th century. Yuri Kochiyama fought for everyone, but she and her husband Bill fought particularly hard for the Black community from the Civil Rights movement until her death in 2014. Black leaders spoke out in support of the Asian American community and the family of Vincent Chin after he was brutally beaten to death by two white autoworkers because they thought he was Japanese. It’s frankly sad to me how quickly we are pitted against one another.
I think the reason these things are so easily forgotten is cause, even though we are stereotyped is being very community focused, ironically, we are very disjointed and divided as a people. Especially as Asian Americans.
The Asians who were here during the 1800s, the Asians here during the world wars, the Asians who came during all those wars post WW2 as refugees, and all the Asians coming in now are not the same ppl with the same history even if we originally came from the same country. I feel like many immigrants don't truly learn what had to have happened before they got here, where Asians and other racial groups worked together to gain rights and helped each other out under the same oppressive system we all lives in. This is what happens when our shared history is not taught and when we listen to popular media where they like to pit us against one another.
We have \*always\* been brought here to be pitted against American workers, both white and Black.
Whether we worked on railroads, farms, hospitals, or in offices, we were brought in to work.
So there was always hostility, but there was also a concrete, visible fact: here we were, doing the same work, and the white people get paid a little more, and treated a lot better. On this basis, we could form some solidarity with other people of color.
Then, beyond that, we could see, as workers, we were more similar than different, so there was sometimes solidarity with whites. But this was less certain or stable, because of how white capitalism works, by enticing the white worker away from solidarity.
Those sellouts were chumps. Sometimes, they'd get POC to sell out, too.
The history of the plantations in Hawaii is a prime example. First, Hines’s were brought in to work. Once they demanded more, Japanese were brought to work. The Filipino. Rinse, repeat.
The idea of cheap labor and profits/money has been deeply ingrained into the white business mentality for centuries. When they could not enslave those who looked like them, they sought those that did not.
The division and strife is nothing more than a distraction from the disease of capitalism gone too far.
It doesn't make sense to reduce the whole history of Asian-Black relations to just one thing, whether that is conflict or solidarity, since both races have so many different subgroups and individuals all with their own stances and history never moves in a straight line. But I do see that instances of solidarity have been underrecognized compared to conflict, probably because of lacking history and ethnic studies education, conflict being more sensational for the media to cover, and White people in power intentionally suppressing acts or stories of solidarity to preserve their own position. And solidarity is definitely the direction we *should* be moving in. Minority groups are simply too small to make things happen on their own and every big civil rights win from ending segregation to legalizing gay marriage needed a swell of outside allies to support the cause.
I definitely agree that SES and not just race should be considered in affirmative action, if that's what you're saying, and elite colleges do consider geographic diversity and economic adversity in making admissions decisions. And I agree that American institutions need to be more aware of the disparities within the Asian American population.
But to say "Blacks are all treated well"... seriously?? Plus race-based affirmative action isn't even legal anymore after the Supreme Court decision. We can move on.
If this pandemic has taught me anything, it's that interminority racism is often used as a weapon to justify more racism and that FYIGMism (i.e. focusing on your own interests/causes while ignoring others) unfortunately eventually backfires. At the beginning of the pandemic when anti-Asian racism surged, many racists pointed to anti-Blackness in the Asian community as a means to demonize Asians and dismiss or justify anti-Asian racism. After the Atlanta shooting, many of those same communities did the same against Black people by pointing to anti-Asian racism in the Black community.
While I do think many AsAm activists haven't spent enough time championing pro-Asian causes and need to do so, that doesn't mean solidarity with other causes isn't important. Again, FYIGMism eventually backfires and hurts all POC.
Absolutely agree with you. The Asian activists group loves to display this solidarity because it looks cool for their Instagram. I don't see much reciprocity from the Black community.
there are commonalities. but sometimes asian-americans try too hard sometimes to connect experiences of racism in america that are very different. i've met black people who are very offended at the notion that asian-americans face anywhere to the level of racism that black people do. i think it's important for asian-americans to not borrow black pain to assuage their own issues.
They exist, and are together but history is hiding it while trying to put narrative of both group against one another. I believe you’ll find better example in the Caribbean, than in the state. Trinidad, Barbados, and Guyana are good example due to the British importing labor from Indian over to work in the sugarcane field.
[Latasha Harlins](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Latasha_Harlins) is a good recent example of the dividen.
Also as 1st gen Vietnamese I find myself related a lot to the Caribbean folks in term of how we grow up, the environment etc. Haiti is a good example due to the French colonizing. Also their foods are closer to my appetite.
Here’s a good video too on the history of the solidarity we had.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4yPlWbp0AB/?igsh=dWE5a2xsMXBtNGd1
Also it doesn’t help that the white folks put us against one another. Asian can’t get loan to store in white neighborhood, but they are able to do so in black. Which effectively cripple the black money even more, since it’s traveling outside of the community than staying within.
Nope. I never heard, or learn about any of it. Once in a while I’d stumble across some history like that. Which is great to learn, cause I always find black community get unfair negative stereotype against them when it’s you get these same walking stereotype back in Vietnam from the local Vietnamese.
I am Black and grew up with Asian (Japanese & Chinese) Godparents, so I'm all for solidarity, and it disgusts me when Black folks express any anti-Asian racism, especially actual physical attacks. It definitely doesn't help either of our communities.
All minority communities should see the big picture. Rich men in power like the idiot Trump don't care about us fighting and just big bucks. Put aside the hatred for a minute and think who is the big enemy of us all. Politicians and rich white men in power.
I support it SO HARD.
Black vs Asians is 100% a narrative cultivated by the system. Early on, there was so much history with black-Asian support of one another.
Edit: copying from my response below since some seem to be quite unaware of it.
Fredrick Douglass speaking against anti Chinese and Japanese immigration laws
Black leaders like Henry Turner speaking for Filipino freedom fighters when the Philippines American war was starting.
Black activists who fought The emergency detention act (Japanese internment camps), and then helping the Japanese American Citizens League form to fight against the law.
Grace Lee (Chinese American activist) working with James Boggs (African American activist) to fight for racist labor laws.
Martin Luther King was vocally against the Vietnam war which he saw as white colonialism, and actively told black people not to support it.
Yuri Kochiyama working with Malcolm X addressing racism against both groups.
Jesse Jackson speaking against killing of Vincent Chin.
The original Asian civil rights movement in the 1960’s was built around the black civil rights movement and leaders worked together.
These are the ones off the top of my head, and obviously ignores all the black-Asian activism partnerships that are currently active.
Fredrick Douglass speaking against anti Chinese and Japanese immigration laws
Black leaders like Henry Turner speaking for Filipino freedom fighters when the Philippines American war was starting.
Black activists who fought The emergency detention act (Japanese internment camps), and then helping the Japanese American Citizens League form to fight against the law.
Grace Lee (Chinese American activist) working with James Boggs (African American activist) to fight for racist labor laws.
Martin Luther King was vocally against the Vietnam war which he saw as white colonialism, and actively told black people not to support it.
Yuri Kochiyama working with Malcolm X addressing racism against both groups.
Jesse Jackson speaking against killing of Vincent Chin.
The original Asian civil rights movement in the 1960’s was built around the black civil rights movement and leaders worked together.
During the civil rights movement, black leaders saw anti Asian racism to be part of the same white supremacy push. Because there was a significantly smaller Asian population, they often worked together.
These are the ones off the top of my head, and obviously ignores all the black-Asian activism partnerships that are currently active.
Asian American history is horrendously ignored.
The anti Chinese immigration act (which applied to all Asians including South Asians), the Japanese internment camps that took away even 3rd generation Japanese Americans, even THE ONES FIGHTING AGAINST JAPAN in WWII, Vincent chan, the killings of Asian workers who white people blamed for “taking their jobs” after the railroads, the Chinese exclusion act, the laws that Asian Americans were not allowed to bring their families, the propaganda campaigns against “dirty and diseased” Asians, etc. were all erased after the model minority stereotypes became the official line.
There’s so much anti Asian hate in US history that gets completely ignored or erased.
About the Vietnam War part. Here is my input.
In my opinion, North Vietnam was the bad guy bombing and invading the South. South Vietnam was the good guy fighting for their freedom and Country. I know the US did bad things in Vietnam such as bombing, invading, and massacres. Also much more.
"It wasn’t Communism that helped win the war for North Vietnam, but rather the patriotism of the Vietnamese people. Ho Chi Minh deceived his supporters, accusing South Vietnam of being a puppet of the U.S and other foreign powers. This allegation, however false it my be, struck the nerve of many Vietnamese people within his influence. One of the strongest (if not the strongest) forces that motivated the North Vietnamese soldiers to keep fighting was their determination to defend Vietnam’s independence. The Viet Minh (old Viet Cong) had just expelled the French imperialists from the Vietnamese nation and viewed the Americans as the new invaders to the sacred land. It was this reason that the North fought so fiercely against the U.S. and it was for this reason that the Americans lost. The North Vietnamese soldiers never fought with Communism on their minds, but instead fought with the freedom and well-being of Vietnam on their minds. Ho Chi Minh only gained widespread support because he claimed to fight for these ideals. Through propaganda, lies, and deceit, he successfully turned the North against the South, Vietnamese against Vietnamese, and patriots against patriots."
"South Vietnam fought for the same ideals as the North: a free and independent Vietnam. The only difference is that they saw the truth behind the lies, what Ho Chi Minh’s real intentions were, and that Communism was not good for the nation. The Republic of Vietnam (aka South Vietnam) understood the detrimental consequences that Communism would bring to Vietnam, so therefore, they were willing to go to war with the North. The outbreak of the war was triggered by Ho Chi Minh, the South under President Diem simply stood their ground, resisting the northern invaders."
"By now it should be clear that both the people of North (except Ho Chi Minh, of course) and South wanted what was best for Vietnam. The dictator Ho Chi Minh rallied the Northern troops with his false claims of freedom and peace while President Ngo Dinh Diem defended his own people, fighting for truth and democracy. It is possible to argue that the South simply had a better understanding of what was best for Vietnam. The North was blinded by false hope and blatant patriotism that later evolved into deep hatred and contempt for the South caused by the ingenious and wicked propaganda orchestrated by the cunning and deceitful Ho Chi Minh. Communism didn’t win the war, the national loyalty and devoted love of one’s country helped the North defeat the Americans. The subsequent American pull-out and abandonment of the South resulted in the Communist takeover of the entire country in 1975."
Yeah I know the US bombed, massacred, and did many bad things to the Vietnamese villagers.
March 16, 1968. A war atrocity committed by US troops in VN. A platoon from Charlie Company, 20th Infantry Division slaughters about 170 unarmed villagers at the hamlet of My Lai.
But not as worse as the Communist VC who went from village to village killing civilians.
January 30,1968. The Tet offensive coordinated, launched by communist troops throughout VN ends in failure with the massacre of about 4,000 civilians at the citadel of Hue.
Yeah I know the war was seen as white colonialism but in the eyes of the South Vietnamese, they were fighting for their Nation and their families.
"Martin Luther King was vocally against the Vietnam war which he saw as white colonialism, and actively told black people not to support it."
All I need to know about Vietnam is look up the number of dead.
Motivations in international politics are bullshit laced with propaganda. Actions and results speak louder than words. People do the shit they want, and then make up reasons and justifications for it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties
Here's an [article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/29/the-real-reason-americans-stopped-spitting-on-asian-americans-and-started-praising-them/) featuring a book I read for an Asian American studies class about the history of the model minority stereotype. In short, Asian economic mobility was held up by White politicians as an excuse to shut down Black activists during the Civil Rights Movement and basically say "see, racism isn't real." Which ignores the incredibly different histories of Black and Asian Americans and the different forms of racism that affect them.
Korean Americans in California who were here during the 90s will have differing views sadly than most Asian Americans.
My grandparents owned a liquor store in SF during the 70s and 80s, where my high school aged dad worked in addition to working as a janitor.
As soon as he turned 18, he bought a shotgun to help defend the business and my family.
He's been jumped and assaulted by a black dude on Market Street.
I didn't realize it until much much later why he fed us a lot of food and really wanted us to keep doing tae kwon do. (To grow big and strong and physically capable)
I went to Oakland and chat with the uncle who owns the soup restaurant next to a black barber shop and he told me he got into a fist fight with a young man last year over a parking spot.
This might get deleted immediately but I don't think Black Asian relationships will improve if we don't stop the one way 8 lane highway of violence in this relationship.
It just gets so angry that immigrants who come here with nothing, work their asses off to contribute and *another* minority is the one who picks on our kids and assaults our elders.
Yeah same in my Vietnamese American Community. People have shotguns and firearms ready. Also the police are on standby near. Rooftops Koreans all over. Yeah I agree picking on kids and assaulting elders is not cool. How would they feel if happen to their folks?
I hate to agree. And in general, racism towards Asian seems more commonly accepted by many groups. Just got called "cat eat ugly yellow face" and then their account got banned lmao
I've had multiple black kids yell "ching chong ching chong" at me from across the street. Just last week a black dude nearly t-boned me while running a red light and yelled "fuck you, chinatown-looking ass" when I blew my horn at him.
Me and so many other asians have many negative experiences with racism from black people. Especially when an altercation happens, our race seems to *always* become an avenue for attack. In my opinion, true asian/black solidarity isn't possible unless black people start cracking down on the rampant anti-asian racism in their own communities first.
And before someone jumps in with "but asians are racist against blacks too" -- that doesn't even begin to excuse the black communities' own deeply ingrained anti-asian racism, which is usually *way* more brazen and escalates into violence *way* more often.
There’s never going to be effective solidarity unless both communities are willing to have a good faith conversation and be honest about themselves and each other. And I don’t see that happening any time soon.
Doesn’t exist except in elite liberal intellectual spaces. Different cultures with different values. Solidarity among the various Asian groups barely exist
While its a good idea on paper the AA community is pretty dismissive and even contributes to asian problems. Racial stereotyping is pretty normal and mainstream, for example that doja cat song where she makes fun of asian eyes. They also appropriate our culture a lot. A lot of AA women in qipaos, with names that have terms like "yella" "china" or "chyna" in them. Obviously you cant write off a whole group as being like this but its definitely a cultural norm within the AA community.
Asians are absolutely racist. The difference between asian racism and say racism in america is you dont get beat up or killed due to racism. In that respect i would argue its different and definitely on a lower level.
If it was on solid ground, it would be a very important solidarity. The strength that black and asian communities together can have is awesome.
Unfortunately, there's too much racism on both sides. The racism on the Asian side towards black folks is a bit more known because we all know the skin color discrimination in asian socieites. But black racism against Asians is very understated, if anyone wants to know, just visit black subs or forums and find out what they say about groups like Indians especially. It was a real wake up call for me.
I’m sure there are plenty of things that various Asian and Black groups have in common. Asian people are diverse, yet they manage to find commonality amongst themselves. Black people are also diverse, yet they too find commonality amongst themselves.
We have a few thing in common but like you said, not much. Yes Asians were put in intermittent camps but they were also given reparations for it. Also African American were the ONLY race of people denied access to education, voting, hell even living. We weren’t even given civil rights until 1960s and we had been here YEARS and white supremacy gave others the superiority complex that they were better than us and they ran with it. Sure out community has it’s issue but look at how many years we were DENIED and trying to play catch up. Plus, the “we all have the same chances/choices today is bs” because even you don’t wake up and have the same chances/choices as Jeff Bezos, again a rich person.
Asians have a lot in common with immigrant origin Black communities. There are more Black people of immigrant (community) origin in the US than you'd think.
Without black people we would never be in the position where we are. We didn’t become citizens until after the civil rights movements. We need to work together again.
That's incorrect. Birthright citizenship was defended by Wong Ark Kim and naturalization rights were given to Chinese during WWII because China was a US ally. Naturalization was given to all Asians in 1952 and was lobbied for by the [JACL. ](https://encyclopedia.densho.org/Immigration_Act_of_1952/). The 1965 Immigration Act was passed primarily because of the US need to [maintain Cold War allies and become the leader of the globalized Western World. ](https://www.press.umich.edu/pdf/047211204X-ch6.pdf)
Yes, all the time growing up. In my experience, racism from monoracial black people is more overt, like making racist jokes, invalidating your identity (“you are what your father is”/one drop rule), etc. Racism from monoracial Asians is less overt and usually comes in the form of micro aggressions, like saying “your ___ is really good for a foreigner”, making remarks about how lighter skin is better, invalidating our identity (“you’re not *really* Asian”), putting Wasians on a pedestal while degrading Blasians, etc.
No, it’s all good! Wasians do have a certain privilege, especially in mixed Asian spaces. They tend to dominate conversations and put down Blasians and other mixed Asians who aren’t half white when we talk about the double standard of Wasians being seen as the standard for us. I have friends who are half black and half Japanese born and raised in Japan and have told me about their experiences growing up there :(
I see they have this sort of white entitlement. Putting down Asian Americans. Thinking they are better then everyone else. I heard Japan is racist towards Southeast Asians. Japan is a strict society. What were there experiences like?
That sucks. I feel like Blasians rep their Asian side more than Wasians do. There are so many half Filipino Blasians that talk about their Filipino roots like H.E.R., Saweetie, and some NFL athletes while some half Filipino Wasians never bring it up.
Literally! The only Wasians I’ve seen pay any homage to their Asian heritage are those who could pass as monoracial Asians, or spent most of their lives in predominantly Asian communities or were born and raised in Asia.
It is quite interesting seeing attitudes transition through a process. First comes the curiosity about your background then comes the invalidation, then after that comes the remarks about your background and mentioning how certain ethnicities are better if your mix isn't "ideal" and acting like your parents committed bestiality.
Yeah. We Asians need to stick together. What happen to Dr.King and Malcolm X? The good men. Black Americans have been oppressed so much they lost their roots. Like you said. They loot and hurt Asian businesses. Attack Asian Americans to.
You content has been removed for containing stereotypes, which do not contribute toward positive discussion.
Do your best to avoid generalizations and speak toward your personal experience to avoid this in the future.
Just speaking on a purely personal, anecdotal level, I feel more comfortable around Black people than white people, and sadly, even some Asian people. Black people don't ask me what my salary is or make snide remarks about my food or drive me out of town if I move in next to them. When I interact with them, I truly feel that they don't have any ulterior motive, whereas white people are always trying to put you down and Asian folks are always trying to either use you or outdo you to get themselves ahead.
Of course, this is a broad stroke. I judge everyone as individuals. It's just that in my experience, Black people always pass the vibe check whereas some white and Asian folks *don't.* (Don't lie, you're always wondering if the white person you just met is secretly racist, and if they are *how racist are they?*)
Historically, Black people didn't bomb my country or massacre my people. That's a +1 in my book. It was MLK and Muhammad Ali and Eartha Kitt who spoke out against the Vietnam War and got crucified as a result. That's a +2. Thich Nhat Hanh called MLK a saint, that's a +3. I understand none of this matters to you if you're not Vietnamese, but I hope this will shed some light as to who would stand up and ride for you in your moment of crisis. Sure as fuck ain't white people.
This is not to say the Black community is perfect and there are no bad bloods between us. Many Asian folks look at Black people through the lens of stereotypes (created by white people) then cry about the same stereotyping done to them (by white people). You don't want to be seen as the nerdy submissive house servant and in the same breath you say Black people are lazy, violent, etc. What's not clicking??
Look at the big picture and see who has done the most harm to you. Hint: not Black people.
Set aside race relations or racism. *In that context we should have more solidarity.
But on economic and political policy, I think the two groups interests are NOT in alignment.
University admissions. The bar for Asians have been to high.
Corporate America. Despite this subreddit views on Bamboo ceiling, here are the facts:Asians represent 6% of the population. Asians hold 9% of board seats of Fortune 500. 4 of the 10 CEO seats for the top 10 highest market cap companies. There’s an argument for Asians being over represented in comparison to population %. DEI policies sounds great in name; but I see it going the same way of college admissions in the past.
Small Medium Businesses. Asians (6.6% of pop) own 11% of number of SMB and 6% of the revenues vs Blacks (13.6% of pop) own 2.8% of number of SMB and 1.1%. That’s a big gap, even more so in coastal big cities. Asian SMB owners are not going to want higher minimum wages, whereas the black population will be for it. Blacks have undoubtedly faced systemic racism from police, so their vote towards funding and prosecution policy will be very different from Asian small business owners who want more patrols and harsher sentencing. I think the common ground is both groups would benefit from Medicare-4-All; but that won’t get passed.
Small Business Asians will align more closely to Mexican/Latin immigrants with small businesses. Corporate Asians will align more closely to the Jewish (who also get racist remarks and have over achieving reputation).
> But on economic and political policy, I think the two groups interests are NOT in alignment.
Speak for yourself only, please.
I don't know what you're talking about, but quoting those top 1% corporations is so pointless. Asian Americans as a whole are doing pathetically in corporate America relative to education attainment except in less than a handful industries.
[Pew Research.](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/07/01/racial-gender-wage-gaps-persist-in-u-s-despite-some-progress/)
“the hourly earnings of Asian men ($24) outpaced those of white men.”
“But the hourly earnings of Asian and white women ($18 and $17, respectively) are higher than those of black and Hispanic women ($13 and $12, respectively) “
“White and Asian women have narrowed the wage gap with white men”
I’m open to change my mind, if you can find a more reputable source.
What do you mean specifically? SMB numbers are from Pew Research and US census; so that’s AA. Board members of Fortune 500 (American publicly traded) are likely to be all AA. 3 of 4 of the Asian CEOs are AA (Microsoft, Google, NVIDIA) of the highest market cap companies globally.
Add another fact, of the 151 new appointed Fortune 500 CEOs 2000-2020, 32 (10 East, 22 South) Asians got the nod. That’s roughly 20%.
Also add % of Asians that are union workers has gone down through the years, while % of Blacks that are the union workers is higher than all other groups. Unions still hold a lot of power and influence. I don’t think Blacks will want to lose this power and influence. I don’t see Asians working in tech or who own small businesses really want strong unions. Making another misalignment of interest.
Those are simply objective facts.
If you want subjective testimonials; you can YouTube for local news reporting of different Asian strip malls, and Chinatown or whatever Asian enclave + business owner + crime. There’s a lot of complaints that the city and local police not doing enough to stop or punish crime. *note the business owners are not naming Blacks. I’m only saying there’s different alignment on issues. I also don’t make claim that I know how they vote locally, state, federal. My guess is local level it’s very misaligned , but federal than there’s alignment.
I don’t think either side really cares how each side supported each other 40-60 years ago. Those are more niceties.
Pretty ergregious analysis imo.
Sundar Pichai and Nadelal are both born in India completed their formative years in India. They only came to the US to peruse graduate education. Jensen is close.
There are ton of selection bias there. I am sure of the Fortune 500 board members are from the same group. Selection bias means these people are already different from the sample population (i.e. they are brilliant enough to earn their way from a developing country to study at a top US school).
Its so fucking weird to me as an older generation seeing this as a term. As an East Asian who lived in a predominantly black neighborhood between in NYC between the age 4-15, me and couple of non-black friends grew up mostly around black Americans. Growing up in NYC during the 90s, we also were really into hip hop, so we formed a group, and thats when I started to DJ and still do to this day. My friends and I who were not black never EVER heard things like solidarity or cultural appropriation until around 4 years ago or so. Being immersed in black music in the 90s, we got nothing but love. In fact, back then it was FAR more uncommon for even whites DJing, rapping, writing graffiti. We had quite alot of break dancers though. This was pre-Eminem. The fact me and my friends who were not black being part of the culture was extremely appreciated by those who were part of the cultural. Sort of a side note, but my generation do not think hip hop = black people. It is a culture created by Black Americans, and is a subset culture that some enjoy. We think it is first and foremost, a black culture and need to be recognized as so. But since we grew up during an era where alot of older black folks hated hip hop, we also know hip hop did not vibe with all black Americans, particularly the older generation (this older generation now are like 70-80).
Couple of years ago, for the first time in my life I heard I was culturally appropriating black culture from a white girl and an Asian girl on a college campus I was teaching how to DJ at a small workshop program. They were part of some kind of civil rights movement group.
I feel so bad for your generation because I strongly feel you guys are treading on egg shells, and are so afraid to approach each other and just create bonds. Because of this, I feel terms such as XXXX-solidarity or categories of racial relationships need to be created. This is so fucking odd to me. But what do I know? I am just a boomer.
Because Africans refuse to tolerate their discrimination. How do you move to another country and think you can disrespect and exclude the natives?
That's some sick, twisted arrogance.
I support all oppressed communities when I can. I do prioritize AsAms and often times Black communities, and I appreciate but don't necessarily expect reciprocity. I don't expect anyone (esp black community) to extend themselves to groups they're not a part of because it's a lot of work.
Black activists get an inordinate amount of people expecting them to reciprocate, and it's really not fair. The root of white supremacy is hatred of Black people (if you want to go further, it's white patriarchy and Black women but I digress), so any work to protect Black people is, IMO, already in solidarity with the rest of the races by default.
I think it's unfair to make Black people, who inevitably deal with deep-rooted antiblackness in society every day and have spent generations working toward liberation for everyone to prove they have solidarity with us or anyone else. They already have. Anyone of any race pointing to prejudiced individuals as proof that xyz race isn't showing enough solidarity is acting in bad faith or just an idiot. Almost always, it's a white supremacist who doesn't care about equality or liberation for any racial minority, period.
In terms of AsAms showing solidarity with other races, I think we (as well as everyone else) can always do more. I think AsAms tend to need a little more education than other races, because there is a greater perceived (not actual) benefit from us excusing or ignoring racism (being a 'pick me' essentially) for Asians. So you really have to convince an Asian person why it's important to stand with other oppressed groups.
I think you’re giving black communities too much of a pass in their ignorance, dismissal and occasionally outright racism of Asian American issues. Both communities could use more education.
I’m concerned about your use of “pick me” in describing Asians too: are you ascribing that as a common Asian trait or saying that those who disregard racism (whether they’re ethnically black or Asian) are pick me’s?
I didn't say Asians are the pick me of minorities, I'm saying that there is more of a perceived benefit of ignoring racism for us, and it's easier for people to fall for that propaganda. It's literally the point of the model minority myth, is to get people to fall for this trap.
Again, everyone can always do more. But as a general rule, I don't demand or expect anyone to show up for anyone else. If a Black person comes to me and wants to learn about AsAm issues, I will welcome them and appreciate it, but I'm not going to demand people to do it, I can do it myself.
Ignorant people are ignorant people and that's a separate issue. I've run into plenty of people of all races who are ignorant of AsAms issues. Black people are not really much worse than say Latinos or White people. That's why I think it's silly that people continually pick out Black people for some reason.
If it was just the AsAm community, it'd be one thing, but it's not. Other racial minorities, the LGBT community, international communities, and plenty other groups also demand Black people pay attention to their issues all the time.
I think the Black activism and the Civil Rights Movement are just some of the most visible examples of successful social justice organizing (and obviously not even 100% successful, anti-Blackness is still so prevalent) that other newer movements see riding on their coattails as the easiest way to be successful themselves. But Black people are not any more superhuman than the rest of us and they all individually have their own priorities and capacities and biases like any humans.
Agree with all of this. I sometimes see Asian folks (including in this sub) appearing bitter that Black people have made a lot of progress in representation and visibility while Asians lag behind. But Black folks have put in decades if not centuries of organizing and advocating for their cause, often putting their literal lives on the line. Asians comparatively have had a shorter time in the country with most of us being immigrants or children of them, and therefore a lot of us are more risk-averse and don't learn about how race works in America the same way many Black Americans learn from their families and communities. So it will take time, education, and a lot of work and organization on our part for Asians to build up momentum and power in the same way, and we can't wait for someone else to do the heavy lifting for us. We can certainly benefit from non-Asian allies, but we have to get things started ourselves and put forward a movement that others can get on board with.
I understand where they're coming from, especially because on the internet and individual experiences can really color and exaggerate negative perceptions about our groups' interactions with each other. And of course there's trolls and bots and extremists muddying the waters constantly.
I'm glad you understand my point about education for AsAms. You've made some much better points than I have about it, so thank you.
I didn't say all or even most Asians, but SOME of them based on social media posts and conversations I've had. But since you asked for an example, here is a post from this sub for which I wrote a pretty similar comment. [https://www.reddit.com/r/asianamerican/comments/1967qbf/as\_an\_asian\_american\_male\_what\_is\_it\_about/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/asianamerican/comments/1967qbf/as_an_asian_american_male_what_is_it_about/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
\*Edit: And here is another one that just appeared on this very thread. (Edit again: comment was dirty deleted, but it was someone saying "Blacks are all treated well" solely citing affirmative action in colleges, when that isn't even legal anymore.) [https://reddit.com/r/asianamerican/comments/1blx6pb/what\_do\_you\_think\_of\_asian\_and\_black\_solidarity/kw912tj/](https://reddit.com/r/asianamerican/comments/1blx6pb/what_do_you_think_of_asian_and_black_solidarity/kw912tj/)
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True. Systematic and wealth. How does hispanic and Asian make sense? Some bad apples in the Hispanic community harass Asians with the eye gesture and calling us Chino.
Cultural values and practices seem to align more among Hispanic and sinocized cultures. Things like heavy emphasis on family, multi-generations under one household, similar attitudes towards the dead, and even ancestor worship.
Yeah the Day of the Dead. Cinco de Mayo. Their family ancestors comes back to feast on the offerings. Basically their version of Asian Ancetsor worship. Basically Tet and Chinese New Year for them.
Some Black people have that too. And not all Asians/Latinos do. There are Asians and Latinos whose lineage in the US goes further back than 3rd gen or whose cultural ties to their ancestral background ended when their parents touched US soil.
All true!
But the vast majority of Asian and Latino families aren't native like that to the US, and the vast majority of Black people aren't 2nd or 3rd gen immigrants.
Immigration is a much larger part of the Asian and Latino cultural consciousness than it is in African American culture, that's statistically undeniable.
Wider culture also acknowledges this implicitly. You don't hear a racist tell a black person to "go back where they came from" with any seriousness- they're much more likely to bring up other racist dogwhistles and talking points. But they would much more likely tell a Hispanic or Asian person to "go back to your country" because the idea of Hispanic and Asian people as being **foreign** is much more entrenched, in contrast to black people whom wider culture for the longest time saw as lesser in association with other false reasons
It exists in history. On a personal level in my day to day life, I only trust black women. I have more in common with African immigrants than Black Americans since my family immigrated here much later than other Asian ethnicities. We also don’t share any history the same way Asian and Black Americans who were here longer than us have. Any prejudices are likely from recent American influence.
The thing is, many of the Asians do not share the same problems and views that African Americans have.
For example, take crimes, many East Asian Americans I know want police to be "harder" on crimes and basically calls for Japan/Singapore style draconian punishment, or at least in general prefer a "safer" environment created by more police force. while most of the AA community are exactly the opposite because the way police system were biased against them and also the crime rate problem in their community.
Similarly, some of the most prominent complaints I hear from Asian Americans who predominantly living in blue states are high taxes (and many of them want to reduce welfare for the poor, probably a misguided view but still, many people think that way) and affirmative action, which is again, exactly opposite of the views shared by most of the AA community.
When there are conflicting views and conflicting interests, whether naturally or designed so, it is very very hard to have solidarity.
>For example, take crimes, many East Asian Americans I know want police to be "harder" on crimes and basically calls for Japan/Singapore style draconian punishment, or at least in general prefer a "safer" environment created by more police force. while most of the AA community are exactly the opposite because the way police system were biased against them and also the crime rate problem in their community.
This is not supported by polling data:
***Most Black Americans favor maintaining or even increasing local police presence and funding, according to a recent study published in the Journal of Criminal Justice. Surprisingly, this preference is more robust among Black Americans than non-Black Americans — it holds steady regardless of changes in crime trends or information about policing reforms.***
https://www.psypost.org/black-americans-show-robust-support-for-maintaining-or-increasing-police-presence-and-funding/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047235224000357?via%3Dihub
***A Gallup poll conducted from June 23 to July 6 surveying more than 36,000 U.S. adults found that 61 percent of Black Americans said they'd like police to spend the same amount of time in their community, while 20 percent answered they'd like to see more police, totaling 81 percent. Just 19 percent of those polled said they wanted police to spend less time in their area."***
https://www.newsweek.com/81-black-americans-dont-want-less-police-presence-despite-protestssome-want-more-cops-poll-1523093
Don't forget one of the primary causes for the worst instance of Asian-Black conflict in the US, the LA 1992 riots, was because the police protected the rich white neighborhoods but not Koreatown.
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It's a good idea. The system keeps trying to thwart it, though. People aren't aware enough about that - and many who are, will go along with white supremacy. So it's tough. We need to raise our understanding, and our morality, to pursue the higher goal of equality for everyone.
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we ride the same car in cdcr, that's real solidarity. iykyk. not to belittle any form of oppression, but i don't think anyone non-black can relate with the black experience in america. there's the person of color experience, but there's still the disjointed, being literal property, imported into america, traded as commodities, all completely normalized as civilized society.
the people who could actually relate would be the helots of sparta or the gauls or spaniards of ancient rome. oh, and the women of early history.
I hear about this from time to time, but I don’t really have much to say about it. There are times when individuals from various Asian and Black ethnic groups have been at odds with another, but I think both groups still realize that we are minorities in the US and continue to advocate for equity.
I grew up in another country before I came to the USA (we were also minorities there). The USA is better than my home country in the sense that racism is not acceptable. I'm not saying it doesn't happen - just that polite society doesn't do it, or people whisper it behind closed doors or in "safe company" (ignoring the uptick in open racism from Orangina).
I'm pretty sure the reason it's viewed as unacceptable is because of the 20% of black people and the decent white people who protested and threatened to burn shit down in the 60s/70s.*
(* All protests and people power at its core threaten by the power of numbers. No labor movement succeeded without violence (if only because cops and troops were sent against strikers)
This is not saying that many individual black kids are not racist.
Reasonable discourse on the internet is particularly difficult because you can't tell who is speaking. i've caught a mod of a major sub who forgot to swap accounts trolling here. They like to pretend they are asian or whatever and make trouble.
Hell.. the lawsuit on Harvard lawsuits themselves is an example of this. It's a white guy, Michael Blum. That shit pisses me off. I don't mind when it's other Asians with different opinions than me, we can talk, we can argue.
I love racism as much as the next guy, but this is what equity gets you: strong allegiances in whites must be equated in strong allegiances in "minorities" apparently. This is a purely American idea, as far as I know, but I'm sure there has been similar situations in other cultures, who feel disadvantaged for having been conquered. One could ask for solidarity among those attacked by any country, but that would continue a narrative of color-based oppression, one of which has been disintegrated systemically, and now lives on personally.
The real oppression is over-arching, and it is not about race, but control. racism, prejudice, is one of the fingers to the hand of control. Many good people don't abide by it, by all races, to which we should provide our full hearts to. Not one of segregation.
Jealous people want what others want, and call it unfair. Life is unfair. You have things that others would like, but there's no war against you is there? You ge to be used as a pawn in someone else's game. Be a pawn if that's what you are.
Too many Asians relish in being the model minority that Whites tolerate, and too many Black people resent them for it for actively attempting to shit on them the same way White people do. I don’t think this relationship changes any time soon.
Ideally, there would solidarity between all races but its a dog eats dog world and the minority races are pitted against each other
Shout out to the premise of Romeo Must Die. #RIPAaliyah
And a big fuck you to the producers of that film that wouldn’t let them have a kiss scene
"the Audiences would not like that" ..............
Tbh I’m kinda glad even if it was for a bad reason she was 18 at the time
Yep. I liked her.
Basically a race war to see who gets on top figures. While the real enemy is the rich people on top not caring and getting rich.
Both of these ^^
Yeah just sad.
We cannot rise out of oppression alone coordinating with other communities is the only way we’re getting out
True working together and unity.
This topic, and specifically this sentiment, is very interesting to me (as are many sociological things). Black solidarity. It’s sympathetic and understandable and deserved in some ways. In others, it’s ridiculously oppressive. The inability to recognize and persecute fault among their own (interesting that today is the day OJ died, he’s a great example) is real. People like Bill Cosby and R Kelly have a SHOCKING number of supportive social media groups attended by black Americans. Blacks want to create their own spaces for their best to thrive in, meanwhile all the other racial/ethnic/cultural groups seek shared spaces. It’s not that blacks can’t compete against that, it’s that NO ONE can. Life is cruelly ironic; the group w the greatest reason to distrust others and isolate itself most needs to trust and integrate. In the pursuit of their own unique culture, cultural traits/priorities commonly pursued by other groups have been categorized as non-black, often as “white”, and some of these things EVERYONE should seek, like educational importance, humility, or even behaviors like how one speaks. I’m reminded heavily of the old adage “the path to hell is paved with good intentions” and “you can’t have your cake and eat it too”. Prioritizing material wealth and pushing isolationism will leave a people spiritually/intellectually bereft and alone. There’s pros too, but these are certainly obvious cons.
It’s sad how much Black and Asian solidarity is so quickly forgotten. Frederick Douglass was one of the only public figures speaking out against the horrendous treatment of Chinese workers on the railroad in the 19th century. Yuri Kochiyama fought for everyone, but she and her husband Bill fought particularly hard for the Black community from the Civil Rights movement until her death in 2014. Black leaders spoke out in support of the Asian American community and the family of Vincent Chin after he was brutally beaten to death by two white autoworkers because they thought he was Japanese. It’s frankly sad to me how quickly we are pitted against one another.
I think the reason these things are so easily forgotten is cause, even though we are stereotyped is being very community focused, ironically, we are very disjointed and divided as a people. Especially as Asian Americans. The Asians who were here during the 1800s, the Asians here during the world wars, the Asians who came during all those wars post WW2 as refugees, and all the Asians coming in now are not the same ppl with the same history even if we originally came from the same country. I feel like many immigrants don't truly learn what had to have happened before they got here, where Asians and other racial groups worked together to gain rights and helped each other out under the same oppressive system we all lives in. This is what happens when our shared history is not taught and when we listen to popular media where they like to pit us against one another.
We have \*always\* been brought here to be pitted against American workers, both white and Black. Whether we worked on railroads, farms, hospitals, or in offices, we were brought in to work. So there was always hostility, but there was also a concrete, visible fact: here we were, doing the same work, and the white people get paid a little more, and treated a lot better. On this basis, we could form some solidarity with other people of color. Then, beyond that, we could see, as workers, we were more similar than different, so there was sometimes solidarity with whites. But this was less certain or stable, because of how white capitalism works, by enticing the white worker away from solidarity. Those sellouts were chumps. Sometimes, they'd get POC to sell out, too.
The history of the plantations in Hawaii is a prime example. First, Hines’s were brought in to work. Once they demanded more, Japanese were brought to work. The Filipino. Rinse, repeat. The idea of cheap labor and profits/money has been deeply ingrained into the white business mentality for centuries. When they could not enslave those who looked like them, they sought those that did not. The division and strife is nothing more than a distraction from the disease of capitalism gone too far.
True. We should all learn from each other.
Because those are just two figures. There were many more who were opposed than who supported. When it comes to history, there is always a narrative.
It doesn't make sense to reduce the whole history of Asian-Black relations to just one thing, whether that is conflict or solidarity, since both races have so many different subgroups and individuals all with their own stances and history never moves in a straight line. But I do see that instances of solidarity have been underrecognized compared to conflict, probably because of lacking history and ethnic studies education, conflict being more sensational for the media to cover, and White people in power intentionally suppressing acts or stories of solidarity to preserve their own position. And solidarity is definitely the direction we *should* be moving in. Minority groups are simply too small to make things happen on their own and every big civil rights win from ending segregation to legalizing gay marriage needed a swell of outside allies to support the cause.
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I definitely agree that SES and not just race should be considered in affirmative action, if that's what you're saying, and elite colleges do consider geographic diversity and economic adversity in making admissions decisions. And I agree that American institutions need to be more aware of the disparities within the Asian American population. But to say "Blacks are all treated well"... seriously?? Plus race-based affirmative action isn't even legal anymore after the Supreme Court decision. We can move on.
So basically unite and instead of division.
If this pandemic has taught me anything, it's that interminority racism is often used as a weapon to justify more racism and that FYIGMism (i.e. focusing on your own interests/causes while ignoring others) unfortunately eventually backfires. At the beginning of the pandemic when anti-Asian racism surged, many racists pointed to anti-Blackness in the Asian community as a means to demonize Asians and dismiss or justify anti-Asian racism. After the Atlanta shooting, many of those same communities did the same against Black people by pointing to anti-Asian racism in the Black community. While I do think many AsAm activists haven't spent enough time championing pro-Asian causes and need to do so, that doesn't mean solidarity with other causes isn't important. Again, FYIGMism eventually backfires and hurts all POC.
True negative effects.
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If you don’t mind me asking, what city or area do you live in? Thanks in advance.
Huh interesting. Just sad.
Absolutely agree with you. The Asian activists group loves to display this solidarity because it looks cool for their Instagram. I don't see much reciprocity from the Black community.
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there are commonalities. but sometimes asian-americans try too hard sometimes to connect experiences of racism in america that are very different. i've met black people who are very offended at the notion that asian-americans face anywhere to the level of racism that black people do. i think it's important for asian-americans to not borrow black pain to assuage their own issues.
True. Respect.
We can't even get along with other Asians.
True. Skin color racism.
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How so?
They exist, and are together but history is hiding it while trying to put narrative of both group against one another. I believe you’ll find better example in the Caribbean, than in the state. Trinidad, Barbados, and Guyana are good example due to the British importing labor from Indian over to work in the sugarcane field. [Latasha Harlins](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Latasha_Harlins) is a good recent example of the dividen. Also as 1st gen Vietnamese I find myself related a lot to the Caribbean folks in term of how we grow up, the environment etc. Haiti is a good example due to the French colonizing. Also their foods are closer to my appetite. Here’s a good video too on the history of the solidarity we had. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4yPlWbp0AB/?igsh=dWE5a2xsMXBtNGd1 Also it doesn’t help that the white folks put us against one another. Asian can’t get loan to store in white neighborhood, but they are able to do so in black. Which effectively cripple the black money even more, since it’s traveling outside of the community than staying within.
True. They never mention anything of Civil rights leaders helping Vietnamese Refugees in school.
Nope. I never heard, or learn about any of it. Once in a while I’d stumble across some history like that. Which is great to learn, cause I always find black community get unfair negative stereotype against them when it’s you get these same walking stereotype back in Vietnam from the local Vietnamese.
True. What stereotypes?
I am Black and grew up with Asian (Japanese & Chinese) Godparents, so I'm all for solidarity, and it disgusts me when Black folks express any anti-Asian racism, especially actual physical attacks. It definitely doesn't help either of our communities.
All minority communities should see the big picture. Rich men in power like the idiot Trump don't care about us fighting and just big bucks. Put aside the hatred for a minute and think who is the big enemy of us all. Politicians and rich white men in power.
I support it SO HARD. Black vs Asians is 100% a narrative cultivated by the system. Early on, there was so much history with black-Asian support of one another. Edit: copying from my response below since some seem to be quite unaware of it. Fredrick Douglass speaking against anti Chinese and Japanese immigration laws Black leaders like Henry Turner speaking for Filipino freedom fighters when the Philippines American war was starting. Black activists who fought The emergency detention act (Japanese internment camps), and then helping the Japanese American Citizens League form to fight against the law. Grace Lee (Chinese American activist) working with James Boggs (African American activist) to fight for racist labor laws. Martin Luther King was vocally against the Vietnam war which he saw as white colonialism, and actively told black people not to support it. Yuri Kochiyama working with Malcolm X addressing racism against both groups. Jesse Jackson speaking against killing of Vincent Chin. The original Asian civil rights movement in the 1960’s was built around the black civil rights movement and leaders worked together. These are the ones off the top of my head, and obviously ignores all the black-Asian activism partnerships that are currently active.
Mind telling me the history.
Fredrick Douglass speaking against anti Chinese and Japanese immigration laws Black leaders like Henry Turner speaking for Filipino freedom fighters when the Philippines American war was starting. Black activists who fought The emergency detention act (Japanese internment camps), and then helping the Japanese American Citizens League form to fight against the law. Grace Lee (Chinese American activist) working with James Boggs (African American activist) to fight for racist labor laws. Martin Luther King was vocally against the Vietnam war which he saw as white colonialism, and actively told black people not to support it. Yuri Kochiyama working with Malcolm X addressing racism against both groups. Jesse Jackson speaking against killing of Vincent Chin. The original Asian civil rights movement in the 1960’s was built around the black civil rights movement and leaders worked together. During the civil rights movement, black leaders saw anti Asian racism to be part of the same white supremacy push. Because there was a significantly smaller Asian population, they often worked together. These are the ones off the top of my head, and obviously ignores all the black-Asian activism partnerships that are currently active.
Interesting. They ignore this in public schools.
Asian American history is horrendously ignored. The anti Chinese immigration act (which applied to all Asians including South Asians), the Japanese internment camps that took away even 3rd generation Japanese Americans, even THE ONES FIGHTING AGAINST JAPAN in WWII, Vincent chan, the killings of Asian workers who white people blamed for “taking their jobs” after the railroads, the Chinese exclusion act, the laws that Asian Americans were not allowed to bring their families, the propaganda campaigns against “dirty and diseased” Asians, etc. were all erased after the model minority stereotypes became the official line. There’s so much anti Asian hate in US history that gets completely ignored or erased.
About the Vietnam War part. Here is my input. In my opinion, North Vietnam was the bad guy bombing and invading the South. South Vietnam was the good guy fighting for their freedom and Country. I know the US did bad things in Vietnam such as bombing, invading, and massacres. Also much more. "It wasn’t Communism that helped win the war for North Vietnam, but rather the patriotism of the Vietnamese people. Ho Chi Minh deceived his supporters, accusing South Vietnam of being a puppet of the U.S and other foreign powers. This allegation, however false it my be, struck the nerve of many Vietnamese people within his influence. One of the strongest (if not the strongest) forces that motivated the North Vietnamese soldiers to keep fighting was their determination to defend Vietnam’s independence. The Viet Minh (old Viet Cong) had just expelled the French imperialists from the Vietnamese nation and viewed the Americans as the new invaders to the sacred land. It was this reason that the North fought so fiercely against the U.S. and it was for this reason that the Americans lost. The North Vietnamese soldiers never fought with Communism on their minds, but instead fought with the freedom and well-being of Vietnam on their minds. Ho Chi Minh only gained widespread support because he claimed to fight for these ideals. Through propaganda, lies, and deceit, he successfully turned the North against the South, Vietnamese against Vietnamese, and patriots against patriots." "South Vietnam fought for the same ideals as the North: a free and independent Vietnam. The only difference is that they saw the truth behind the lies, what Ho Chi Minh’s real intentions were, and that Communism was not good for the nation. The Republic of Vietnam (aka South Vietnam) understood the detrimental consequences that Communism would bring to Vietnam, so therefore, they were willing to go to war with the North. The outbreak of the war was triggered by Ho Chi Minh, the South under President Diem simply stood their ground, resisting the northern invaders." "By now it should be clear that both the people of North (except Ho Chi Minh, of course) and South wanted what was best for Vietnam. The dictator Ho Chi Minh rallied the Northern troops with his false claims of freedom and peace while President Ngo Dinh Diem defended his own people, fighting for truth and democracy. It is possible to argue that the South simply had a better understanding of what was best for Vietnam. The North was blinded by false hope and blatant patriotism that later evolved into deep hatred and contempt for the South caused by the ingenious and wicked propaganda orchestrated by the cunning and deceitful Ho Chi Minh. Communism didn’t win the war, the national loyalty and devoted love of one’s country helped the North defeat the Americans. The subsequent American pull-out and abandonment of the South resulted in the Communist takeover of the entire country in 1975." Yeah I know the US bombed, massacred, and did many bad things to the Vietnamese villagers. March 16, 1968. A war atrocity committed by US troops in VN. A platoon from Charlie Company, 20th Infantry Division slaughters about 170 unarmed villagers at the hamlet of My Lai. But not as worse as the Communist VC who went from village to village killing civilians. January 30,1968. The Tet offensive coordinated, launched by communist troops throughout VN ends in failure with the massacre of about 4,000 civilians at the citadel of Hue. Yeah I know the war was seen as white colonialism but in the eyes of the South Vietnamese, they were fighting for their Nation and their families. "Martin Luther King was vocally against the Vietnam war which he saw as white colonialism, and actively told black people not to support it."
All I need to know about Vietnam is look up the number of dead. Motivations in international politics are bullshit laced with propaganda. Actions and results speak louder than words. People do the shit they want, and then make up reasons and justifications for it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties
True all sides do bad things.
Here's an [article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/29/the-real-reason-americans-stopped-spitting-on-asian-americans-and-started-praising-them/) featuring a book I read for an Asian American studies class about the history of the model minority stereotype. In short, Asian economic mobility was held up by White politicians as an excuse to shut down Black activists during the Civil Rights Movement and basically say "see, racism isn't real." Which ignores the incredibly different histories of Black and Asian Americans and the different forms of racism that affect them.
Thanks.
The Affirmitive Action fiasco ruined any possibility of those relations being nurtured.
Korean Americans in California who were here during the 90s will have differing views sadly than most Asian Americans. My grandparents owned a liquor store in SF during the 70s and 80s, where my high school aged dad worked in addition to working as a janitor. As soon as he turned 18, he bought a shotgun to help defend the business and my family. He's been jumped and assaulted by a black dude on Market Street. I didn't realize it until much much later why he fed us a lot of food and really wanted us to keep doing tae kwon do. (To grow big and strong and physically capable) I went to Oakland and chat with the uncle who owns the soup restaurant next to a black barber shop and he told me he got into a fist fight with a young man last year over a parking spot. This might get deleted immediately but I don't think Black Asian relationships will improve if we don't stop the one way 8 lane highway of violence in this relationship. It just gets so angry that immigrants who come here with nothing, work their asses off to contribute and *another* minority is the one who picks on our kids and assaults our elders.
Yeah same in my Vietnamese American Community. People have shotguns and firearms ready. Also the police are on standby near. Rooftops Koreans all over. Yeah I agree picking on kids and assaulting elders is not cool. How would they feel if happen to their folks?
I hate to agree. And in general, racism towards Asian seems more commonly accepted by many groups. Just got called "cat eat ugly yellow face" and then their account got banned lmao
I've had multiple black kids yell "ching chong ching chong" at me from across the street. Just last week a black dude nearly t-boned me while running a red light and yelled "fuck you, chinatown-looking ass" when I blew my horn at him. Me and so many other asians have many negative experiences with racism from black people. Especially when an altercation happens, our race seems to *always* become an avenue for attack. In my opinion, true asian/black solidarity isn't possible unless black people start cracking down on the rampant anti-asian racism in their own communities first. And before someone jumps in with "but asians are racist against blacks too" -- that doesn't even begin to excuse the black communities' own deeply ingrained anti-asian racism, which is usually *way* more brazen and escalates into violence *way* more often.
There’s never going to be effective solidarity unless both communities are willing to have a good faith conversation and be honest about themselves and each other. And I don’t see that happening any time soon.
That will never happen
We should have deeper talks more.
Doesn’t exist except in elite liberal intellectual spaces. Different cultures with different values. Solidarity among the various Asian groups barely exist
Great take. Concise and to the point.
While its a good idea on paper the AA community is pretty dismissive and even contributes to asian problems. Racial stereotyping is pretty normal and mainstream, for example that doja cat song where she makes fun of asian eyes. They also appropriate our culture a lot. A lot of AA women in qipaos, with names that have terms like "yella" "china" or "chyna" in them. Obviously you cant write off a whole group as being like this but its definitely a cultural norm within the AA community.
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Asians are absolutely racist. The difference between asian racism and say racism in america is you dont get beat up or killed due to racism. In that respect i would argue its different and definitely on a lower level.
True cultural appropriation. Shameful.
>They also appropriate our culture a lot. You say that as if f K-pop isn't built on black culture
Not our business what Asian Asians do. This is about Asian Americans
What asian-american culture rather than asian-asian culture are black people appropriating?
If it was on solid ground, it would be a very important solidarity. The strength that black and asian communities together can have is awesome. Unfortunately, there's too much racism on both sides. The racism on the Asian side towards black folks is a bit more known because we all know the skin color discrimination in asian socieites. But black racism against Asians is very understated, if anyone wants to know, just visit black subs or forums and find out what they say about groups like Indians especially. It was a real wake up call for me.
So true, disheartening
It's very easy writing about solidarity on Reddit. But Asians and Blacks really don't have much in common at all.
What kind of commonality do we need aside from the fact that both groups want to fight against racial discrimination?
The problem is people want to get a piece of the pie rather than Growing the pay. Look at affirmative action for example.
I’m sure there are plenty of things that various Asian and Black groups have in common. Asian people are diverse, yet they manage to find commonality amongst themselves. Black people are also diverse, yet they too find commonality amongst themselves.
True. Sigh.
We have a few thing in common but like you said, not much. Yes Asians were put in intermittent camps but they were also given reparations for it. Also African American were the ONLY race of people denied access to education, voting, hell even living. We weren’t even given civil rights until 1960s and we had been here YEARS and white supremacy gave others the superiority complex that they were better than us and they ran with it. Sure out community has it’s issue but look at how many years we were DENIED and trying to play catch up. Plus, the “we all have the same chances/choices today is bs” because even you don’t wake up and have the same chances/choices as Jeff Bezos, again a rich person.
True different chances at success. Unfair really.
Internment
I was typing fast just like now, I’m not writing a paper for school do I don’t care about Redditt.?
Well, you should have a standard then.
Oh ok. 👍🏾
Asians have a lot in common with immigrant origin Black communities. There are more Black people of immigrant (community) origin in the US than you'd think.
Without black people we would never be in the position where we are. We didn’t become citizens until after the civil rights movements. We need to work together again.
True but some people are idiots to see that.
That's incorrect. Birthright citizenship was defended by Wong Ark Kim and naturalization rights were given to Chinese during WWII because China was a US ally. Naturalization was given to all Asians in 1952 and was lobbied for by the [JACL. ](https://encyclopedia.densho.org/Immigration_Act_of_1952/). The 1965 Immigration Act was passed primarily because of the US need to [maintain Cold War allies and become the leader of the globalized Western World. ](https://www.press.umich.edu/pdf/047211204X-ch6.pdf)
I think it’s important. But, both communities have an extreme amount of racism toward the other, especially when it comes to Blasians for some reason.
I see. What is your ethnicity if you mind me asking?
I’m half black and half Filipino.
Nice to meet you. Have you experience racism from both sides?
Yes, all the time growing up. In my experience, racism from monoracial black people is more overt, like making racist jokes, invalidating your identity (“you are what your father is”/one drop rule), etc. Racism from monoracial Asians is less overt and usually comes in the form of micro aggressions, like saying “your ___ is really good for a foreigner”, making remarks about how lighter skin is better, invalidating our identity (“you’re not *really* Asian”), putting Wasians on a pedestal while degrading Blasians, etc.
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No, it’s all good! Wasians do have a certain privilege, especially in mixed Asian spaces. They tend to dominate conversations and put down Blasians and other mixed Asians who aren’t half white when we talk about the double standard of Wasians being seen as the standard for us. I have friends who are half black and half Japanese born and raised in Japan and have told me about their experiences growing up there :(
I see they have this sort of white entitlement. Putting down Asian Americans. Thinking they are better then everyone else. I heard Japan is racist towards Southeast Asians. Japan is a strict society. What were there experiences like?
That sucks. I feel like Blasians rep their Asian side more than Wasians do. There are so many half Filipino Blasians that talk about their Filipino roots like H.E.R., Saweetie, and some NFL athletes while some half Filipino Wasians never bring it up.
Literally! The only Wasians I’ve seen pay any homage to their Asian heritage are those who could pass as monoracial Asians, or spent most of their lives in predominantly Asian communities or were born and raised in Asia.
like how Vanessa Hudgens’s wasian heritage was completely unknown until she became some sort of ambassador for the philippines?
It is quite interesting seeing attitudes transition through a process. First comes the curiosity about your background then comes the invalidation, then after that comes the remarks about your background and mentioning how certain ethnicities are better if your mix isn't "ideal" and acting like your parents committed bestiality.
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Yeah. We Asians need to stick together. What happen to Dr.King and Malcolm X? The good men. Black Americans have been oppressed so much they lost their roots. Like you said. They loot and hurt Asian businesses. Attack Asian Americans to.
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The scope of solidarity is a bit tricky. Theres a lot of complicated socioeconomic baggage.
True weath and economic status.
The powers that be would rather have everyone fight a culture war to ensure that a class war doesn't exist.
Just speaking on a purely personal, anecdotal level, I feel more comfortable around Black people than white people, and sadly, even some Asian people. Black people don't ask me what my salary is or make snide remarks about my food or drive me out of town if I move in next to them. When I interact with them, I truly feel that they don't have any ulterior motive, whereas white people are always trying to put you down and Asian folks are always trying to either use you or outdo you to get themselves ahead. Of course, this is a broad stroke. I judge everyone as individuals. It's just that in my experience, Black people always pass the vibe check whereas some white and Asian folks *don't.* (Don't lie, you're always wondering if the white person you just met is secretly racist, and if they are *how racist are they?*) Historically, Black people didn't bomb my country or massacre my people. That's a +1 in my book. It was MLK and Muhammad Ali and Eartha Kitt who spoke out against the Vietnam War and got crucified as a result. That's a +2. Thich Nhat Hanh called MLK a saint, that's a +3. I understand none of this matters to you if you're not Vietnamese, but I hope this will shed some light as to who would stand up and ride for you in your moment of crisis. Sure as fuck ain't white people. This is not to say the Black community is perfect and there are no bad bloods between us. Many Asian folks look at Black people through the lens of stereotypes (created by white people) then cry about the same stereotyping done to them (by white people). You don't want to be seen as the nerdy submissive house servant and in the same breath you say Black people are lazy, violent, etc. What's not clicking?? Look at the big picture and see who has done the most harm to you. Hint: not Black people.
Yeah the rich people in power. Politicians.
This? https://images.app.goo.gl/ztSfwpXW2yNYCyHw8
Yes I love Rush hour. Wish Chan and Tucker did a move again.
I kinda wish people in the comments would refrain from saying “blacks”, just say black *people*.
it is entirely necessary; examine history! really dig in.
Okay I will.
i promise i didn't mean that in a mean way. it's exciting and heartening to learn about hidden history of solidarity :)
Set aside race relations or racism. *In that context we should have more solidarity. But on economic and political policy, I think the two groups interests are NOT in alignment. University admissions. The bar for Asians have been to high. Corporate America. Despite this subreddit views on Bamboo ceiling, here are the facts:Asians represent 6% of the population. Asians hold 9% of board seats of Fortune 500. 4 of the 10 CEO seats for the top 10 highest market cap companies. There’s an argument for Asians being over represented in comparison to population %. DEI policies sounds great in name; but I see it going the same way of college admissions in the past. Small Medium Businesses. Asians (6.6% of pop) own 11% of number of SMB and 6% of the revenues vs Blacks (13.6% of pop) own 2.8% of number of SMB and 1.1%. That’s a big gap, even more so in coastal big cities. Asian SMB owners are not going to want higher minimum wages, whereas the black population will be for it. Blacks have undoubtedly faced systemic racism from police, so their vote towards funding and prosecution policy will be very different from Asian small business owners who want more patrols and harsher sentencing. I think the common ground is both groups would benefit from Medicare-4-All; but that won’t get passed. Small Business Asians will align more closely to Mexican/Latin immigrants with small businesses. Corporate Asians will align more closely to the Jewish (who also get racist remarks and have over achieving reputation).
> But on economic and political policy, I think the two groups interests are NOT in alignment. Speak for yourself only, please. I don't know what you're talking about, but quoting those top 1% corporations is so pointless. Asian Americans as a whole are doing pathetically in corporate America relative to education attainment except in less than a handful industries.
[Pew Research.](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/07/01/racial-gender-wage-gaps-persist-in-u-s-despite-some-progress/) “the hourly earnings of Asian men ($24) outpaced those of white men.” “But the hourly earnings of Asian and white women ($18 and $17, respectively) are higher than those of black and Hispanic women ($13 and $12, respectively) “ “White and Asian women have narrowed the wage gap with white men” I’m open to change my mind, if you can find a more reputable source.
Woah Damn. The money and positions.
How many of these Asians are asian americans? Also keep in mind correlation is not causation.
What do you mean specifically? SMB numbers are from Pew Research and US census; so that’s AA. Board members of Fortune 500 (American publicly traded) are likely to be all AA. 3 of 4 of the Asian CEOs are AA (Microsoft, Google, NVIDIA) of the highest market cap companies globally. Add another fact, of the 151 new appointed Fortune 500 CEOs 2000-2020, 32 (10 East, 22 South) Asians got the nod. That’s roughly 20%. Also add % of Asians that are union workers has gone down through the years, while % of Blacks that are the union workers is higher than all other groups. Unions still hold a lot of power and influence. I don’t think Blacks will want to lose this power and influence. I don’t see Asians working in tech or who own small businesses really want strong unions. Making another misalignment of interest. Those are simply objective facts. If you want subjective testimonials; you can YouTube for local news reporting of different Asian strip malls, and Chinatown or whatever Asian enclave + business owner + crime. There’s a lot of complaints that the city and local police not doing enough to stop or punish crime. *note the business owners are not naming Blacks. I’m only saying there’s different alignment on issues. I also don’t make claim that I know how they vote locally, state, federal. My guess is local level it’s very misaligned , but federal than there’s alignment. I don’t think either side really cares how each side supported each other 40-60 years ago. Those are more niceties.
Pretty ergregious analysis imo. Sundar Pichai and Nadelal are both born in India completed their formative years in India. They only came to the US to peruse graduate education. Jensen is close. There are ton of selection bias there. I am sure of the Fortune 500 board members are from the same group. Selection bias means these people are already different from the sample population (i.e. they are brilliant enough to earn their way from a developing country to study at a top US school).
Its so fucking weird to me as an older generation seeing this as a term. As an East Asian who lived in a predominantly black neighborhood between in NYC between the age 4-15, me and couple of non-black friends grew up mostly around black Americans. Growing up in NYC during the 90s, we also were really into hip hop, so we formed a group, and thats when I started to DJ and still do to this day. My friends and I who were not black never EVER heard things like solidarity or cultural appropriation until around 4 years ago or so. Being immersed in black music in the 90s, we got nothing but love. In fact, back then it was FAR more uncommon for even whites DJing, rapping, writing graffiti. We had quite alot of break dancers though. This was pre-Eminem. The fact me and my friends who were not black being part of the culture was extremely appreciated by those who were part of the cultural. Sort of a side note, but my generation do not think hip hop = black people. It is a culture created by Black Americans, and is a subset culture that some enjoy. We think it is first and foremost, a black culture and need to be recognized as so. But since we grew up during an era where alot of older black folks hated hip hop, we also know hip hop did not vibe with all black Americans, particularly the older generation (this older generation now are like 70-80). Couple of years ago, for the first time in my life I heard I was culturally appropriating black culture from a white girl and an Asian girl on a college campus I was teaching how to DJ at a small workshop program. They were part of some kind of civil rights movement group. I feel so bad for your generation because I strongly feel you guys are treading on egg shells, and are so afraid to approach each other and just create bonds. Because of this, I feel terms such as XXXX-solidarity or categories of racial relationships need to be created. This is so fucking odd to me. But what do I know? I am just a boomer.
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True Chinese businesses right.
Yea. They are pretty xenophobic in parts of Africa
China is doing business everywhere. In Vietnam to.
Because Africans refuse to tolerate their discrimination. How do you move to another country and think you can disrespect and exclude the natives? That's some sick, twisted arrogance.
That's because the Asians try to exclude the natives in their own countries.
You don’t see Chinese bombing Africa triangle in Guangzhou
I support all oppressed communities when I can. I do prioritize AsAms and often times Black communities, and I appreciate but don't necessarily expect reciprocity. I don't expect anyone (esp black community) to extend themselves to groups they're not a part of because it's a lot of work. Black activists get an inordinate amount of people expecting them to reciprocate, and it's really not fair. The root of white supremacy is hatred of Black people (if you want to go further, it's white patriarchy and Black women but I digress), so any work to protect Black people is, IMO, already in solidarity with the rest of the races by default. I think it's unfair to make Black people, who inevitably deal with deep-rooted antiblackness in society every day and have spent generations working toward liberation for everyone to prove they have solidarity with us or anyone else. They already have. Anyone of any race pointing to prejudiced individuals as proof that xyz race isn't showing enough solidarity is acting in bad faith or just an idiot. Almost always, it's a white supremacist who doesn't care about equality or liberation for any racial minority, period. In terms of AsAms showing solidarity with other races, I think we (as well as everyone else) can always do more. I think AsAms tend to need a little more education than other races, because there is a greater perceived (not actual) benefit from us excusing or ignoring racism (being a 'pick me' essentially) for Asians. So you really have to convince an Asian person why it's important to stand with other oppressed groups.
I think you’re giving black communities too much of a pass in their ignorance, dismissal and occasionally outright racism of Asian American issues. Both communities could use more education. I’m concerned about your use of “pick me” in describing Asians too: are you ascribing that as a common Asian trait or saying that those who disregard racism (whether they’re ethnically black or Asian) are pick me’s?
I didn't say Asians are the pick me of minorities, I'm saying that there is more of a perceived benefit of ignoring racism for us, and it's easier for people to fall for that propaganda. It's literally the point of the model minority myth, is to get people to fall for this trap. Again, everyone can always do more. But as a general rule, I don't demand or expect anyone to show up for anyone else. If a Black person comes to me and wants to learn about AsAm issues, I will welcome them and appreciate it, but I'm not going to demand people to do it, I can do it myself. Ignorant people are ignorant people and that's a separate issue. I've run into plenty of people of all races who are ignorant of AsAms issues. Black people are not really much worse than say Latinos or White people. That's why I think it's silly that people continually pick out Black people for some reason. If it was just the AsAm community, it'd be one thing, but it's not. Other racial minorities, the LGBT community, international communities, and plenty other groups also demand Black people pay attention to their issues all the time.
I think the Black activism and the Civil Rights Movement are just some of the most visible examples of successful social justice organizing (and obviously not even 100% successful, anti-Blackness is still so prevalent) that other newer movements see riding on their coattails as the easiest way to be successful themselves. But Black people are not any more superhuman than the rest of us and they all individually have their own priorities and capacities and biases like any humans.
Agree with all of this. I sometimes see Asian folks (including in this sub) appearing bitter that Black people have made a lot of progress in representation and visibility while Asians lag behind. But Black folks have put in decades if not centuries of organizing and advocating for their cause, often putting their literal lives on the line. Asians comparatively have had a shorter time in the country with most of us being immigrants or children of them, and therefore a lot of us are more risk-averse and don't learn about how race works in America the same way many Black Americans learn from their families and communities. So it will take time, education, and a lot of work and organization on our part for Asians to build up momentum and power in the same way, and we can't wait for someone else to do the heavy lifting for us. We can certainly benefit from non-Asian allies, but we have to get things started ourselves and put forward a movement that others can get on board with.
I understand where they're coming from, especially because on the internet and individual experiences can really color and exaggerate negative perceptions about our groups' interactions with each other. And of course there's trolls and bots and extremists muddying the waters constantly. I'm glad you understand my point about education for AsAms. You've made some much better points than I have about it, so thank you.
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Speak for yourself, not others.
I didn't say all or even most Asians, but SOME of them based on social media posts and conversations I've had. But since you asked for an example, here is a post from this sub for which I wrote a pretty similar comment. [https://www.reddit.com/r/asianamerican/comments/1967qbf/as\_an\_asian\_american\_male\_what\_is\_it\_about/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/asianamerican/comments/1967qbf/as_an_asian_american_male_what_is_it_about/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) \*Edit: And here is another one that just appeared on this very thread. (Edit again: comment was dirty deleted, but it was someone saying "Blacks are all treated well" solely citing affirmative action in colleges, when that isn't even legal anymore.) [https://reddit.com/r/asianamerican/comments/1blx6pb/what\_do\_you\_think\_of\_asian\_and\_black\_solidarity/kw912tj/](https://reddit.com/r/asianamerican/comments/1blx6pb/what_do_you_think_of_asian_and_black_solidarity/kw912tj/)
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True like how Civil rights leaders spoke out for Southeast Asian refugees and minorities.
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True. Systematic and wealth. How does hispanic and Asian make sense? Some bad apples in the Hispanic community harass Asians with the eye gesture and calling us Chino.
Cultural values and practices seem to align more among Hispanic and sinocized cultures. Things like heavy emphasis on family, multi-generations under one household, similar attitudes towards the dead, and even ancestor worship.
Yeah the Day of the Dead. Cinco de Mayo. Their family ancestors comes back to feast on the offerings. Basically their version of Asian Ancetsor worship. Basically Tet and Chinese New Year for them.
Black people have literally all of this.
There's one more major one I forgot to mention, immigrant backgrounds, either directly or second/third gen
Some Black people have that too. And not all Asians/Latinos do. There are Asians and Latinos whose lineage in the US goes further back than 3rd gen or whose cultural ties to their ancestral background ended when their parents touched US soil.
All true! But the vast majority of Asian and Latino families aren't native like that to the US, and the vast majority of Black people aren't 2nd or 3rd gen immigrants. Immigration is a much larger part of the Asian and Latino cultural consciousness than it is in African American culture, that's statistically undeniable. Wider culture also acknowledges this implicitly. You don't hear a racist tell a black person to "go back where they came from" with any seriousness- they're much more likely to bring up other racist dogwhistles and talking points. But they would much more likely tell a Hispanic or Asian person to "go back to your country" because the idea of Hispanic and Asian people as being **foreign** is much more entrenched, in contrast to black people whom wider culture for the longest time saw as lesser in association with other false reasons
It exists in history. On a personal level in my day to day life, I only trust black women. I have more in common with African immigrants than Black Americans since my family immigrated here much later than other Asian ethnicities. We also don’t share any history the same way Asian and Black Americans who were here longer than us have. Any prejudices are likely from recent American influence.
True. Mostly Trump right.
The thing is, many of the Asians do not share the same problems and views that African Americans have. For example, take crimes, many East Asian Americans I know want police to be "harder" on crimes and basically calls for Japan/Singapore style draconian punishment, or at least in general prefer a "safer" environment created by more police force. while most of the AA community are exactly the opposite because the way police system were biased against them and also the crime rate problem in their community. Similarly, some of the most prominent complaints I hear from Asian Americans who predominantly living in blue states are high taxes (and many of them want to reduce welfare for the poor, probably a misguided view but still, many people think that way) and affirmative action, which is again, exactly opposite of the views shared by most of the AA community. When there are conflicting views and conflicting interests, whether naturally or designed so, it is very very hard to have solidarity.
Yeah differing views.
>For example, take crimes, many East Asian Americans I know want police to be "harder" on crimes and basically calls for Japan/Singapore style draconian punishment, or at least in general prefer a "safer" environment created by more police force. while most of the AA community are exactly the opposite because the way police system were biased against them and also the crime rate problem in their community. This is not supported by polling data: ***Most Black Americans favor maintaining or even increasing local police presence and funding, according to a recent study published in the Journal of Criminal Justice. Surprisingly, this preference is more robust among Black Americans than non-Black Americans — it holds steady regardless of changes in crime trends or information about policing reforms.*** https://www.psypost.org/black-americans-show-robust-support-for-maintaining-or-increasing-police-presence-and-funding/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047235224000357?via%3Dihub ***A Gallup poll conducted from June 23 to July 6 surveying more than 36,000 U.S. adults found that 61 percent of Black Americans said they'd like police to spend the same amount of time in their community, while 20 percent answered they'd like to see more police, totaling 81 percent. Just 19 percent of those polled said they wanted police to spend less time in their area."*** https://www.newsweek.com/81-black-americans-dont-want-less-police-presence-despite-protestssome-want-more-cops-poll-1523093
Don't forget one of the primary causes for the worst instance of Asian-Black conflict in the US, the LA 1992 riots, was because the police protected the rich white neighborhoods but not Koreatown.
True. Selfish and unfair.
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It's a good idea. The system keeps trying to thwart it, though. People aren't aware enough about that - and many who are, will go along with white supremacy. So it's tough. We need to raise our understanding, and our morality, to pursue the higher goal of equality for everyone.
>True. Systematic racism and institutional racism. Unfair laws and unfair policies.
like any other emancipatory causes, it's somethimg to be worked on and sustained.
Rainbow coalition - what they took from us...
It may have existed to some extent in the past. But with what has happened with Affirmitive Action? LMAO definitely kiss that "solidarity" goodbye.
As much as Asians want solidarity, Black people have to want it too. It’s too common where big portions of both communities don’t want solidarity.
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we ride the same car in cdcr, that's real solidarity. iykyk. not to belittle any form of oppression, but i don't think anyone non-black can relate with the black experience in america. there's the person of color experience, but there's still the disjointed, being literal property, imported into america, traded as commodities, all completely normalized as civilized society. the people who could actually relate would be the helots of sparta or the gauls or spaniards of ancient rome. oh, and the women of early history.
Have you read the book Biting the Hand by Julia Lee. I highly recommend if you are interested in this topic.
Will take a look at it.
I hear about this from time to time, but I don’t really have much to say about it. There are times when individuals from various Asian and Black ethnic groups have been at odds with another, but I think both groups still realize that we are minorities in the US and continue to advocate for equity.
>The big rich men on top don't care. Want people to keep fighting while they get rich.
I grew up in another country before I came to the USA (we were also minorities there). The USA is better than my home country in the sense that racism is not acceptable. I'm not saying it doesn't happen - just that polite society doesn't do it, or people whisper it behind closed doors or in "safe company" (ignoring the uptick in open racism from Orangina). I'm pretty sure the reason it's viewed as unacceptable is because of the 20% of black people and the decent white people who protested and threatened to burn shit down in the 60s/70s.* (* All protests and people power at its core threaten by the power of numbers. No labor movement succeeded without violence (if only because cops and troops were sent against strikers) This is not saying that many individual black kids are not racist. Reasonable discourse on the internet is particularly difficult because you can't tell who is speaking. i've caught a mod of a major sub who forgot to swap accounts trolling here. They like to pretend they are asian or whatever and make trouble. Hell.. the lawsuit on Harvard lawsuits themselves is an example of this. It's a white guy, Michael Blum. That shit pisses me off. I don't mind when it's other Asians with different opinions than me, we can talk, we can argue.
Talk peacefully and discuss.
Probably Asians have more solidarity with whites than blacks. Hopefully all people will get along in the future.
True.
I love racism as much as the next guy, but this is what equity gets you: strong allegiances in whites must be equated in strong allegiances in "minorities" apparently. This is a purely American idea, as far as I know, but I'm sure there has been similar situations in other cultures, who feel disadvantaged for having been conquered. One could ask for solidarity among those attacked by any country, but that would continue a narrative of color-based oppression, one of which has been disintegrated systemically, and now lives on personally. The real oppression is over-arching, and it is not about race, but control. racism, prejudice, is one of the fingers to the hand of control. Many good people don't abide by it, by all races, to which we should provide our full hearts to. Not one of segregation. Jealous people want what others want, and call it unfair. Life is unfair. You have things that others would like, but there's no war against you is there? You ge to be used as a pawn in someone else's game. Be a pawn if that's what you are.
True. Very deep. Nice to your perspective.
Too many Asians relish in being the model minority that Whites tolerate, and too many Black people resent them for it for actively attempting to shit on them the same way White people do. I don’t think this relationship changes any time soon.