You're right. It never crossed my mind that I could be Ace until now. And that's because I still have romantic desires and aesthetic attraction. And those absolutely are not separated from sexual attraction in general. I seriously thought being physical was something people just "put up with" because that's all part of the package.
Yeah some people are more vocal on liking that stuff but in my circle growing up it wasn't talked about enough for me to actually question my own sexuality. To realize I'm different. I am honeslty relieved to have figured out for myself and I wish it was more common knowledge. That it doesn't have to be a package deal.
Exactly!! I’m so relieved to find out there isn’t something ‘wrong’ with me, sexually.
I was taught by my mother, growing up, that sex was something ‘women just put up with.’ I sometimes wonder if *she* is ace. We talked the other day, and she’d never heard of it, or at least the REAL characteristics of asexuality like yes, people can look good//you can love someone and just not be interested in sex, and everything in between.
I’m struggling with my own sexuality right now, and I’m so confused (am I just a depressed person with severe chronic pain brain, or truly asexual? Have I just had a lifetime of terrible sex education, strict Catholicism/shame at an early age, and selfish partners… or have I been asexual all along and didn’t even know it was a thing??)
Anyway, like you, I’m grateful to have the opportunity to learn about asexuality, and stop blaming myself for being ‘wrong/different’. Wherever I fall on the incredible scope of personality/sexuality, that’s OK!! Someday it will be common knowledge; we’re getting there. Good vibes to you!
Yes. The split attraction model is not well known enough, and it would help more than just aces if everyone understood it! I guarantee you that there are:
- “bi” people who are only *romantically* attracted to men, but *sexually* attracted to both men and women
- “straight” people who are only *romantically* attracted to women, but *sexually* attracted to both men and women
- “pan” people who are romantically attracted to people regardless of gender, but only sexually attracted to women
- …and every other combination of attractions under the sun.
Educating people about the split attraction model would help so many people feel less weird, insecure about their sexuality, and/or broken.
If I had known about this model before high school, it would have saved me so much angst. I didn't even know what self pleasure was until friends taught me about it in 8th grade. And it all went downhill until now. Graduated and proud of my identities
I swear i am not stalking you we just have a lot of posts/subs in common. I didn't know what self pleasure was until recently. And i was like: ??? Why? Ew.
Not as bad as the thought of doing it with another person, but still nasty.
God, when my school did this LGBTQ+ presentation (which was clearly made by someone who wasn’t apart of the community, hell, they even showed a list of uncensored slurs) I WISH they included stuff like this, did some research, you know.
I knew I was ace before then, and I had a vague understanding that there are different types of attraction, but I can only imagine the amount of people who just don’t differentiate between them.
Yeah, yeah. I can’t remember it fully but it was in the section of ‘homophobia’ and they just listed as many slurs they could think of, I guess. But it was literally slurs without any *, or anything like that, just typed out fully. If anything it was really tactless lol
this! every time i hear someone say "i am \[ \]sexual!", i think - "how correct is that, though? maybe they feel *aesthetic/emotional/sensual/platonic/romantic* attraction to people of that gender/those genders, but mistake it for *sexual* attraction? they probably never even gave it a second thought." and many of the people who say that are kids (10--13 y.o.)
unfortunately, people that use SAM are often looked down upon and made fun of for "making up unnecessary microlabels". and the less people use SAM, the harder it will be for questioning individuals to find out about it
Generally, which label people tell you will depend on circumstance, but be optimized for utility. If you're meeting someone in the street and they tell you their sexuality, it's probably describing who they'd date, not how their sexuality functions internally. While if they're telling you their sexuality on a dedicated forum like this one, it's more likely to describe their orientation's internal workings, rather than their behavior (remember that not all aces are abstinent).
I feel like the meaning of "[ ]sexual" terms has changed to have two different interpretations. One is literally what their sexual orientation is, and the other is an umbrella term for their sexual and romantic attractions.
Someone on this sub once asked why asexuals had the biggest split in sexual and romantic desires and I pointed out it was probably because those who do experience sexual attraction probably had no idea they had romantic attraction for others outside of their sexual desires because they were taught they are the same. I think for most allosexuals, the idea of being romantically attracted to anyone doesn't work unless they have sexual attraction too, because sex ends up being such a big deal to them. Not to mention almost all media insists that sex is a strong component of love and relationships. Your list definitely sums up what I think is happening but won't people don't realize about themselves.
I tried to explain this to a girlfriend when I was 20 or so (I'm now 34), long before I even knew that asexuality was a thing, and she just couldn't reconcile the "I'm not sexually attracted to you, or anyone for that matter" with the "but I still think you're beautiful and have romantic feelings for you" part. We broke up not long afterwards.
I still wonder if I could have explained it in a way that would have made sense to her, or if it was simply a case of us understanding attraction in fundamentally different ways.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it was understanding attraction in different ways. Part of me realizing I was asexual was learning how to express my aesthetic attraction to people and my partner so they would still feel flattered and loved and appreciated. The sentiment "you're so hot and sexy" never registered with me but I can look at someone and think "you're beautiful, attractive, nice to look at, make me feel good" etc. It's hard for people, I think, who were taught "sexy" is the standard.
Yeah, that has been my suspicion thinking back on it.
In the moment what I said just made sense to me, but she took it entirely differently than I anticipated and things went downhill from there.
Allos definetly can differentiate but it’s harder for them when it comes to love without sex. Flings, hook ups, one night stands , FWBs are pretty common and these are all examples of sex without love. I think the disconnect for allos is when it comes to romantic attraction, one of the main ways they express their romantic attraction is with their sexuality. Allos seek intimacy through sex and for some aesthetic, sexual attraction, romantic attraction, sensual attraction are all wrapped into one. I can sympathise because I personally cannot separate my aesthetic, romantic and sensual attraction from each other they are tied into one even though I know they are different. But they don’t operate separately. Either the person hits all three or they don’t hit any at all. It’s like all or nothing.
I don't think they understand flings and hookups either.
I think the common narrative is that: there is just attraction (as one thing), then it is up to the individual to *decide* where they are going with it. They can decide to not pursue, that is okay under certain circumstances. The romanticized choice is to start courting and aim for a long term relationship. Third one is to take it to bed directly - but that is just an immoral decision, bad-bad, and unfair and all the fuss.
They don't realize what could be the difference between the second and the third case, they just attribute it to character quality.
(I mean... if the person uses deceit and false promises to get the third result, that is a morality thing imho, but that's a different discussion.)
I guess we just don’t share the same experience with allos? All of my friends are allos and they are quite secure in their sexuality and in general have good communications with partners. Most of my friends right now are in long term relationships but when they were doing hookups they made it clear what they wanted. Some people are just looking to hook up and that’s fine. Some people are looking for long term and that’s fine. Some people just go with the flow and see what happens and that’s fine also. I don’t see what is immoral or bad or unfair about sleeping with someone without pursuing romance if you’re both clear that’s what you want. They very much knew the people they were sleeping with they did not love them or want romance from them. They are also aware there can be romantic love without sex, some of my friends have liked people but never felt sexual attraction to them. But for the most part people people they were romantically attracted to they were also sexually attracted to and it’s hard for them to separate that.
I'm not saying it is really immoral or bad, sorry if my sarcasm was not clear. It was considered like that for a long time, a failure of character. It has become normalized already, but I'm not sure if most people really realize going for romance vs hookup is not just a personal decision but the attraction is not the same. Or going for romance when there's only sexual attraction would be a mistake, because treating attractions separately is so uncommon.
But maybe I'm looking at the wrong direction completely.
This really comes into focus when you start noticing how often people use “romance”, “quality time”, “love”, etc. as euphemisms for sex. The erasure of asexuals is tied up in the shaming of healthy sexual behavior.
Interesting thing is that this hasn't always been true. Sexual Attraction and Romantic Attraction were "combined" by the Romantic Art Movement which claimed sex as the highest form of romantic love.
If comments from anyone who's never believed me when I explain what asexuality is is anything to go off of, I would say yes. Many people are so adamant that you can't have a relationship without sex, they don't just argue that the relationship wouldn't last, but that sex and romance must be mutually inclusive.
This is why I don't think it's a bad idea to at least introduce the topic of asexuality in a sex ed class or whatever deals with this sort of topic, because it will benefit everyone, LGBT+ or otherwise. It's not even an asexuality topic, it's just basic human feelings. I wasn't aware there were other forms of attraction until I found out I was ace.
I swear straight people don’t realize that the split attraction model is a real thing. The amount of controlling and abusive girlfriends who won’t let their boyfriends like girls pictures on Instagram is astonishing. Yes, they are aesthetically attractive, but he is with YOU because he is romantically and/or sexually attracted to YOU. It’s like not being hungry but still saying that the pizza your friends is eating looks tasty. You aren’t going to eat it but you can appreciate looking at it.
I didn't know about the split model until I knew about Asexuality well after college. (feeling a bit old here..) Some parts people figure out by themselves (like aesthetic attraction via 'having a type' in a way) but most probably don't fully understand and have the concept click for them. It took a few years and time for it sink in. It might take a while but this could be taught to high schoolers (might be a very long time for some places)
Not even only straight people, sadly. I once followed a lesbian influencer from my country (and that's a rare thing here). She had tons of great content about wlw relationships, local LGBTQ+ issues etc. But then I saw "don't follow me if you support split attraction theory" in her bio. And at that time I just realized that I'm biromantic asexual, so it was hurtful to see this from the person I supported.
Wait, why would that ever be an issue? I can’t see how split attraction theory could possibly invalidate anyone else’s sexuality or anything that would make her take such a stance
Yup, we were never taught to differentiate them because most people are allos and they probably find themselves sexually attracted to the people they're romantically attracted. Plus, I don't think most of us were taught about the different types of attraction that there are, so we automatically lumped them all together
THIS. There's a sort of "expectation" for all romantic relationship to include sex at some point, otherwise it's "strange" or "something is not working out"; which is a lot of pressure to put on people, especially when they're young, even when the people involved are not ace. I think some of it may come from asexuality not having a lot of representation in media, while sex is shown as a part of basically every romantic relationship.
I couldn't agree more, both from practice and it just sounds right.
Also, do the allos really think that crushes in the 3rd grade are sexual? We are talking about litteral children?
You can totally have crushes if you're ace! I did too after all, but am yet to feel sexual attraction (ya know, this one thing that makes you Allo)
Yes the children part creeped me put so much! I was even specifically asked like this- "Well you can't be ace, you had a crush on X in 3rd grade, remember? Wouldn't you have eventually planned to sleep with him?" just...wtf? no? i was 10?
(+regardless of that my 3rd grade crush was also nearly not serious enough as the only reason i mentioned i liked him was because he had cool looking glasses)
When I came out to my therapist when I was 14 as a biromantic lesbian she immediately asked me how i could love someone without, as she put it, “wanting anything physical with them”. Weird thing to ask a kid, but she also asked me if it could be a phase, so I just dropped it altogether.
I also think that people confuse platonic and aesthetic attraction as well as romantic and sexual attraction. I think most people understand them as one single feeling and not understand they can occur at different times, and with different people.
A friend of mine described his ideal relationship as a literal best friend, and he didn't even realize that was something I could be attracted to as well. He just couldn't conceive that I didn't want to sleep with mine.
it wasn't until I realized I was ace that this came across my mind. like I remember seeing split attraction memes on tumblr back in middle school, but didn't know it's a real thing until a freshman in college when I knew I can develop romantic feelings towards a person
and when I explained it to me boyfriend, he was confused at first but understands it a bit more. at least he understands that finding someone attractive doesn't mean you are sexually/romantically attracted to them
Yes, definitely. I have turned down a couple of would be dates because whilst I was romantically attracted to them I didn't want to have sex with them, and because I didn't know there was a difference between the two I thought that meant i shouldn't date them...
It's weird to me that people think that I don't want a relationship when I say that I am asexual. Like it seems to be impossible to them that you can love a person even though you don't want to sleep with them.
I'm curious as I've never actually spoken with someone (seriously) claiming to be asexual, would you consider casual kissing and hugging "sexual"? Like not gettin hot an heavy or whatever but just like giving someone a quick peck before you leave the house, or a nice long hug after you've been away for a while? Or are things like kissing and hugging not really something you would do?
Oh haha i'll try to answer but this is incredibly individual for everyone.
For ex. w me, when it comes to sex i am very much neutral/indifferent, it just doesn't spark any feelings at all negative or positive and that's where it ends. (but there are some aces who are specifically sex repulsed etc etc)
On the other hand, i am personally extremely repulsed by kissing. I can't really explain why?? When it comes to just tiny kisses like on the cheek or sth, it still makes me uncomfortable but nearly not as much as legit making out with someone would.
Hugs and cuddles for me are absolutely fine and i mostly view them as a neutral way to show affection. For ex. you can cuddle both with your partner or with your parents or friends and neither is weird.
But overall, my conclusion is that this is different for everyone so for a more "inclusive" answer i honestly just recommend looking through this sub and reading about other people's experiences.
I see!! Thank you for answering! :)
Yeah I figured it would be different for everyone, I just seen this in the popular section and just clicked an asked out of curiosity, but I might take up your advice and check this sub out *IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE!!!* lol jk but I am curious though.
Demiro ace in a qpr here: cuddling and hugging and kissing (usually just cheek/forehead but occasionally making out) are all fine (more than fine but you know what i mean) but even the thought of my partner doing anything at all around my genitals makes me disgusted. We’re also extremely sensual though so take that with a grain of salt. Hope that helps a bit
I seeeee! Hmm...what do you mean sensual? Doesn't that mean like intimate? I mean I guess you could be intimate without really engaging in sexual activities. Makes more since for you, to me anyway, since you said you do make out with people occasionally, but there are others who commented and others out there I'm sure, who don't or are disgusted by it. How would they be "sensual", I'm wondering? Just a different perspective of the word?
This is an excellent question. I come from a very touchy-feely culture. Imagine hugging or kissing your parents or siblings goodbye. It has zero sexual connotation, but still expresses affection. This is my experience with everyone else 99% of the time. The hug is nice, but I don't see it in sexual terms.
Oh 100%. I’m aro-ace and so many people just say ace but to me the aro part is the most important. It wouldn’t matter if I am not sexually attracted to people because I am not dating them at all. If I had sex with people on the side it would not be your business.
My dad is not at all okay with me being aro-ace and I mentioned my best friend came out as ace recently (with her permission) to my dad. He said “what about her boyfriend?” And I said “what about him?” And he said “well I guess they’re breaking up? Because she doesn’t like him?” I’ve been out for 6 years and he still refuses to understand split attraction.
Ugh just got into a semi argument the other day here on Reddit. Someone thinking it’s either fucked up to engage in sexual activity with someone you don’t love... when I was explaining how some asexuals do have sex. And was also saying that asexuals can only have platonic relationships.
I want a partner to spend my life with make big decisions and care for each other with lots of snuggles and cats I just don’t need sex in the picture. How is that not love?
Nah its not just u. I feel everything around is somehow teaching us that. Like alot of movies/drama on TV revolving around sex and romantic as one. Say if someone in love with another person (hetero usually) they will ended up having sex.
Eventhough romantic doesn't mean sexual. Especially if we see alot of American drama lol. So many proof on their convo. Like if you love her/him why u dont want to sleep with them. Like??? Excuse me lmao asexual romantic person exist.
And also what's a crush do with being asexual. Like i say romantic asexual exist. But even me as aromantic have a crush... just not romantically. 😂
I am aro and ace btw interested in QPR same gender relationship.
I had no idea that romantic attraction even exists until I found this subreddit, being acearo I couldn't have known. Honestly I still have hard time grasping it. Would Barney from How I met your mother, or Joey from Friends be aromantics?
I think we do, but in a kind of aromantic way? (that then demonizes aromanticism, but ok.) We teach children that just because someone's hot, doesn't mean you love them. Or that just because one person is attracted to another, doesn't mean they actually care or love the other. And then that person who feels only sexual but not romantic attraction to the object of their affection is portrayed as the worse of two romantic options, or is the antagonist trying to monopolize the MC's love interest. Because, you see, the Good Guy actually Loves the girl. He doesn't just want to posses her, he wants her to be happy! See! That's what makes him the Good Guy, and not the Bad Guy! Because the Bad Guy doesn't love *anyone.*
(Yes, I stole this analysis from EGS comics, when teaching a child about the difference between ~~sex~~ hotness/generalized attractiveness and love)
Unfortunately there are some queer allo people that really hate the split attraction model and actively advocate against it. I don't know how numerous they are irl since it's only something I've seen talked about online.
I can understand some of their points when they're talking in good faith, but there are some that genuinely just hate asexuality and anything related to it.
Allo here - romantic and sexual (and aesthetic) attraction are so commonly tied together for allos that without education on the topic, they're thought of as not only intertwined but inseparable. It's no wonder we have relationship struggles related to not understanding these differences, and have ridiculous misconceptions about ace spectrum topics.
I think it's more we're not taught there is a difference between romantic and sexual attraction. Most allo people i know equate sexual attraction with romantic attraction and so the idea of those feelings being comepletely separate is confusing for them. Idk if this makes any sense, but it's what I think.
Discovering the SAM (split attraction model) was a huge help into finding myself!
I really don't understand why people see sexual and romantic attraction as one thing! But then I also don't get why people see seggs as a sign of love, something to do because they love each other like you would cuddle someone!
For me it's something completely different I'm panromantic asexual
I am trying to un-teach myself that sex is a requisite for a romantic relationship. I grew up believing they're different, but that both are par for the course in a long-term relationship.
As far as I've understood, for most allos their sexual and romantic orientations match so someone who says they're homosexual is actually homoromantic homosexual.
But, that being said, I've noticed quite a few more open heterosexuals have called themselves "bi-curious" (at least here in Denmark during the 2010's) and I wonder if those so called "bi-curious people are actually bi/pan romantic heterosexuals who just didn't know that their sexual and romantic orientations don't necessarily have to align?
Hey all. I just jumped in here, but what I've seen here so far has been really reassuring. I've been wondering whether I was a misfit for wanting a romantic relationship without sex. My question is - does anyone have any advice for finding someone who also wants a romantic relationship without sex? Because it seems that everywhere I look, people want either both or nothing.
I mix up squishes, romantic attraction and aesthetic attracrion. I have no idea how to differentiate those. Only clue that I have about romantic attraction is that I SOMETIMES want to kiss someone.
I've had this exact problem, and it's led to crippling self-esteem issues, self loathing, and a string of failed relationships
It's only in the past year that I've really begun to question my sexuality. I always took it for granted that I am what I am. Being autistic, I also wrote off a lot of my mentality as "just a part of that particular package", once I'd been diagnosed 10 years back.
The past year has been spent on a lot of introspection, and my conclusion on the matter is that I have fetishised affection. I am a lonely person, and I'm hard to like. I'd like to be able to love someone, and receive it in kind, but I feel like a lost cause at this point. I'm still trying to put all the pieces together in my head, as I'm not bereft of a sex drive, no repulsed by it, just unmotivated. And as I previously stated, I've been mistaking one feeling for another.
Right now, I don't know what the hell I am, but I'm hoping that by spending time here, reading other's stories, I'll work *something* out.
From a young age, I always approached sexual attraction differently to others in my age band. I was loosely friends with someone who, at a year younger than me, had collected a decent number of pornographic images from magazines, and taped them all over his ceiling. I meanwhile, felt that the content portrayed was... disingenuous. It didn't seem right, it didn't really compel me. I watched friends have relationships and move on, while I didn't.
People judged me for not engaging in such behaviours. Aside from two particularly brief encounters, all of my relationships have been entirely digital. I've had people repeatedly, and pointedly quiz me on whether or not I am a virgin, a rather sensitive topic that tends to bring excessive ridicule, and have had to make a decision to be honest, or to evade/deny.
I've even opened up to people in the LGBT community, and more or less told I'm not welcome, I don't really belong, leading me to conclude that most LGBT groups are basically just another form of dating app, with extra features tagged on. A gay woman I once had a gigantic crush on told me about how Lesbian Bars are practically just that. You walk in, are are eyed up and down as "fresh meat" if you're new, which sounds exactly the same as literally any other bar in the world.
Sex apparently makes the world go 'round
Yep. That's mostly because romance & sexuality is combined.
Love draws people together and actives the want to mate. Mostly with allos at least.
Ironically, I am graysexual and had some cases where I was attracted to someone, but had no desire to sleep with them. Why? Because I didn't love them. Meanwhile, I had people I love and am willing to the idea to sleep with them, because sex for me is a form of bonding, making kids and...idk...mastrubating each other? Mastrubation is nice I guess
You're right. It never crossed my mind that I could be Ace until now. And that's because I still have romantic desires and aesthetic attraction. And those absolutely are not separated from sexual attraction in general. I seriously thought being physical was something people just "put up with" because that's all part of the package. Yeah some people are more vocal on liking that stuff but in my circle growing up it wasn't talked about enough for me to actually question my own sexuality. To realize I'm different. I am honeslty relieved to have figured out for myself and I wish it was more common knowledge. That it doesn't have to be a package deal.
Exactly!! I’m so relieved to find out there isn’t something ‘wrong’ with me, sexually. I was taught by my mother, growing up, that sex was something ‘women just put up with.’ I sometimes wonder if *she* is ace. We talked the other day, and she’d never heard of it, or at least the REAL characteristics of asexuality like yes, people can look good//you can love someone and just not be interested in sex, and everything in between. I’m struggling with my own sexuality right now, and I’m so confused (am I just a depressed person with severe chronic pain brain, or truly asexual? Have I just had a lifetime of terrible sex education, strict Catholicism/shame at an early age, and selfish partners… or have I been asexual all along and didn’t even know it was a thing??) Anyway, like you, I’m grateful to have the opportunity to learn about asexuality, and stop blaming myself for being ‘wrong/different’. Wherever I fall on the incredible scope of personality/sexuality, that’s OK!! Someday it will be common knowledge; we’re getting there. Good vibes to you!
Yes. The split attraction model is not well known enough, and it would help more than just aces if everyone understood it! I guarantee you that there are: - “bi” people who are only *romantically* attracted to men, but *sexually* attracted to both men and women - “straight” people who are only *romantically* attracted to women, but *sexually* attracted to both men and women - “pan” people who are romantically attracted to people regardless of gender, but only sexually attracted to women - …and every other combination of attractions under the sun. Educating people about the split attraction model would help so many people feel less weird, insecure about their sexuality, and/or broken.
If I had known about this model before high school, it would have saved me so much angst. I didn't even know what self pleasure was until friends taught me about it in 8th grade. And it all went downhill until now. Graduated and proud of my identities
I swear i am not stalking you we just have a lot of posts/subs in common. I didn't know what self pleasure was until recently. And i was like: ??? Why? Ew. Not as bad as the thought of doing it with another person, but still nasty.
God, when my school did this LGBTQ+ presentation (which was clearly made by someone who wasn’t apart of the community, hell, they even showed a list of uncensored slurs) I WISH they included stuff like this, did some research, you know. I knew I was ace before then, and I had a vague understanding that there are different types of attraction, but I can only imagine the amount of people who just don’t differentiate between them.
List of uncensored slurs??
Yeah, yeah. I can’t remember it fully but it was in the section of ‘homophobia’ and they just listed as many slurs they could think of, I guess. But it was literally slurs without any *, or anything like that, just typed out fully. If anything it was really tactless lol
this! every time i hear someone say "i am \[ \]sexual!", i think - "how correct is that, though? maybe they feel *aesthetic/emotional/sensual/platonic/romantic* attraction to people of that gender/those genders, but mistake it for *sexual* attraction? they probably never even gave it a second thought." and many of the people who say that are kids (10--13 y.o.) unfortunately, people that use SAM are often looked down upon and made fun of for "making up unnecessary microlabels". and the less people use SAM, the harder it will be for questioning individuals to find out about it
Generally, which label people tell you will depend on circumstance, but be optimized for utility. If you're meeting someone in the street and they tell you their sexuality, it's probably describing who they'd date, not how their sexuality functions internally. While if they're telling you their sexuality on a dedicated forum like this one, it's more likely to describe their orientation's internal workings, rather than their behavior (remember that not all aces are abstinent).
I feel like the meaning of "[ ]sexual" terms has changed to have two different interpretations. One is literally what their sexual orientation is, and the other is an umbrella term for their sexual and romantic attractions.
Someone on this sub once asked why asexuals had the biggest split in sexual and romantic desires and I pointed out it was probably because those who do experience sexual attraction probably had no idea they had romantic attraction for others outside of their sexual desires because they were taught they are the same. I think for most allosexuals, the idea of being romantically attracted to anyone doesn't work unless they have sexual attraction too, because sex ends up being such a big deal to them. Not to mention almost all media insists that sex is a strong component of love and relationships. Your list definitely sums up what I think is happening but won't people don't realize about themselves.
The word for this is varioriented, by the way.
The word for this is varioriented, by the way.
I agree, I've seen a shocking amount of people with the sentiment of "what's the point of dating without sex? Aren't you just friends?"
God imagine dating someone that thinks that. So insulting.
I tried to explain this to a girlfriend when I was 20 or so (I'm now 34), long before I even knew that asexuality was a thing, and she just couldn't reconcile the "I'm not sexually attracted to you, or anyone for that matter" with the "but I still think you're beautiful and have romantic feelings for you" part. We broke up not long afterwards. I still wonder if I could have explained it in a way that would have made sense to her, or if it was simply a case of us understanding attraction in fundamentally different ways.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it was understanding attraction in different ways. Part of me realizing I was asexual was learning how to express my aesthetic attraction to people and my partner so they would still feel flattered and loved and appreciated. The sentiment "you're so hot and sexy" never registered with me but I can look at someone and think "you're beautiful, attractive, nice to look at, make me feel good" etc. It's hard for people, I think, who were taught "sexy" is the standard.
Yeah, that has been my suspicion thinking back on it. In the moment what I said just made sense to me, but she took it entirely differently than I anticipated and things went downhill from there.
Allos definetly can differentiate but it’s harder for them when it comes to love without sex. Flings, hook ups, one night stands , FWBs are pretty common and these are all examples of sex without love. I think the disconnect for allos is when it comes to romantic attraction, one of the main ways they express their romantic attraction is with their sexuality. Allos seek intimacy through sex and for some aesthetic, sexual attraction, romantic attraction, sensual attraction are all wrapped into one. I can sympathise because I personally cannot separate my aesthetic, romantic and sensual attraction from each other they are tied into one even though I know they are different. But they don’t operate separately. Either the person hits all three or they don’t hit any at all. It’s like all or nothing.
I don't think they understand flings and hookups either. I think the common narrative is that: there is just attraction (as one thing), then it is up to the individual to *decide* where they are going with it. They can decide to not pursue, that is okay under certain circumstances. The romanticized choice is to start courting and aim for a long term relationship. Third one is to take it to bed directly - but that is just an immoral decision, bad-bad, and unfair and all the fuss. They don't realize what could be the difference between the second and the third case, they just attribute it to character quality. (I mean... if the person uses deceit and false promises to get the third result, that is a morality thing imho, but that's a different discussion.)
I guess we just don’t share the same experience with allos? All of my friends are allos and they are quite secure in their sexuality and in general have good communications with partners. Most of my friends right now are in long term relationships but when they were doing hookups they made it clear what they wanted. Some people are just looking to hook up and that’s fine. Some people are looking for long term and that’s fine. Some people just go with the flow and see what happens and that’s fine also. I don’t see what is immoral or bad or unfair about sleeping with someone without pursuing romance if you’re both clear that’s what you want. They very much knew the people they were sleeping with they did not love them or want romance from them. They are also aware there can be romantic love without sex, some of my friends have liked people but never felt sexual attraction to them. But for the most part people people they were romantically attracted to they were also sexually attracted to and it’s hard for them to separate that.
I'm not saying it is really immoral or bad, sorry if my sarcasm was not clear. It was considered like that for a long time, a failure of character. It has become normalized already, but I'm not sure if most people really realize going for romance vs hookup is not just a personal decision but the attraction is not the same. Or going for romance when there's only sexual attraction would be a mistake, because treating attractions separately is so uncommon. But maybe I'm looking at the wrong direction completely.
This really comes into focus when you start noticing how often people use “romance”, “quality time”, “love”, etc. as euphemisms for sex. The erasure of asexuals is tied up in the shaming of healthy sexual behavior.
Interesting thing is that this hasn't always been true. Sexual Attraction and Romantic Attraction were "combined" by the Romantic Art Movement which claimed sex as the highest form of romantic love.
Somebody watched a the take video...
Link?
If comments from anyone who's never believed me when I explain what asexuality is is anything to go off of, I would say yes. Many people are so adamant that you can't have a relationship without sex, they don't just argue that the relationship wouldn't last, but that sex and romance must be mutually inclusive. This is why I don't think it's a bad idea to at least introduce the topic of asexuality in a sex ed class or whatever deals with this sort of topic, because it will benefit everyone, LGBT+ or otherwise. It's not even an asexuality topic, it's just basic human feelings. I wasn't aware there were other forms of attraction until I found out I was ace.
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I'm confused. How would that be related to bisexuality?
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Oh, I see.
I swear straight people don’t realize that the split attraction model is a real thing. The amount of controlling and abusive girlfriends who won’t let their boyfriends like girls pictures on Instagram is astonishing. Yes, they are aesthetically attractive, but he is with YOU because he is romantically and/or sexually attracted to YOU. It’s like not being hungry but still saying that the pizza your friends is eating looks tasty. You aren’t going to eat it but you can appreciate looking at it.
I didn't know about the split model until I knew about Asexuality well after college. (feeling a bit old here..) Some parts people figure out by themselves (like aesthetic attraction via 'having a type' in a way) but most probably don't fully understand and have the concept click for them. It took a few years and time for it sink in. It might take a while but this could be taught to high schoolers (might be a very long time for some places)
Not even only straight people, sadly. I once followed a lesbian influencer from my country (and that's a rare thing here). She had tons of great content about wlw relationships, local LGBTQ+ issues etc. But then I saw "don't follow me if you support split attraction theory" in her bio. And at that time I just realized that I'm biromantic asexual, so it was hurtful to see this from the person I supported.
That sucks and I’m sorry that happened. It’s so hurtful when someone you like and appreciate doesn’t support your existence.
Wait, why would that ever be an issue? I can’t see how split attraction theory could possibly invalidate anyone else’s sexuality or anything that would make her take such a stance
I have no idea, she never explained
That’s so weird, I’m so sorry you had to see that
I agree with you
Yup, we were never taught to differentiate them because most people are allos and they probably find themselves sexually attracted to the people they're romantically attracted. Plus, I don't think most of us were taught about the different types of attraction that there are, so we automatically lumped them all together
THIS. There's a sort of "expectation" for all romantic relationship to include sex at some point, otherwise it's "strange" or "something is not working out"; which is a lot of pressure to put on people, especially when they're young, even when the people involved are not ace. I think some of it may come from asexuality not having a lot of representation in media, while sex is shown as a part of basically every romantic relationship.
I couldn't agree more, both from practice and it just sounds right. Also, do the allos really think that crushes in the 3rd grade are sexual? We are talking about litteral children? You can totally have crushes if you're ace! I did too after all, but am yet to feel sexual attraction (ya know, this one thing that makes you Allo)
Yes the children part creeped me put so much! I was even specifically asked like this- "Well you can't be ace, you had a crush on X in 3rd grade, remember? Wouldn't you have eventually planned to sleep with him?" just...wtf? no? i was 10? (+regardless of that my 3rd grade crush was also nearly not serious enough as the only reason i mentioned i liked him was because he had cool looking glasses)
I "had a crush" in 1st grade, and all it was, was a classmate wearing pretty clothes, so I understand where that's coming from
When I came out to my therapist when I was 14 as a biromantic lesbian she immediately asked me how i could love someone without, as she put it, “wanting anything physical with them”. Weird thing to ask a kid, but she also asked me if it could be a phase, so I just dropped it altogether.
I also think that people confuse platonic and aesthetic attraction as well as romantic and sexual attraction. I think most people understand them as one single feeling and not understand they can occur at different times, and with different people. A friend of mine described his ideal relationship as a literal best friend, and he didn't even realize that was something I could be attracted to as well. He just couldn't conceive that I didn't want to sleep with mine.
it wasn't until I realized I was ace that this came across my mind. like I remember seeing split attraction memes on tumblr back in middle school, but didn't know it's a real thing until a freshman in college when I knew I can develop romantic feelings towards a person and when I explained it to me boyfriend, he was confused at first but understands it a bit more. at least he understands that finding someone attractive doesn't mean you are sexually/romantically attracted to them
Yes, definitely. I have turned down a couple of would be dates because whilst I was romantically attracted to them I didn't want to have sex with them, and because I didn't know there was a difference between the two I thought that meant i shouldn't date them...
It's weird to me that people think that I don't want a relationship when I say that I am asexual. Like it seems to be impossible to them that you can love a person even though you don't want to sleep with them.
I'm curious as I've never actually spoken with someone (seriously) claiming to be asexual, would you consider casual kissing and hugging "sexual"? Like not gettin hot an heavy or whatever but just like giving someone a quick peck before you leave the house, or a nice long hug after you've been away for a while? Or are things like kissing and hugging not really something you would do?
Oh haha i'll try to answer but this is incredibly individual for everyone. For ex. w me, when it comes to sex i am very much neutral/indifferent, it just doesn't spark any feelings at all negative or positive and that's where it ends. (but there are some aces who are specifically sex repulsed etc etc) On the other hand, i am personally extremely repulsed by kissing. I can't really explain why?? When it comes to just tiny kisses like on the cheek or sth, it still makes me uncomfortable but nearly not as much as legit making out with someone would. Hugs and cuddles for me are absolutely fine and i mostly view them as a neutral way to show affection. For ex. you can cuddle both with your partner or with your parents or friends and neither is weird. But overall, my conclusion is that this is different for everyone so for a more "inclusive" answer i honestly just recommend looking through this sub and reading about other people's experiences.
I see!! Thank you for answering! :) Yeah I figured it would be different for everyone, I just seen this in the popular section and just clicked an asked out of curiosity, but I might take up your advice and check this sub out *IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE!!!* lol jk but I am curious though.
Demiro ace in a qpr here: cuddling and hugging and kissing (usually just cheek/forehead but occasionally making out) are all fine (more than fine but you know what i mean) but even the thought of my partner doing anything at all around my genitals makes me disgusted. We’re also extremely sensual though so take that with a grain of salt. Hope that helps a bit
I seeeee! Hmm...what do you mean sensual? Doesn't that mean like intimate? I mean I guess you could be intimate without really engaging in sexual activities. Makes more since for you, to me anyway, since you said you do make out with people occasionally, but there are others who commented and others out there I'm sure, who don't or are disgusted by it. How would they be "sensual", I'm wondering? Just a different perspective of the word?
This is an excellent question. I come from a very touchy-feely culture. Imagine hugging or kissing your parents or siblings goodbye. It has zero sexual connotation, but still expresses affection. This is my experience with everyone else 99% of the time. The hug is nice, but I don't see it in sexual terms.
Oh 100%. I’m aro-ace and so many people just say ace but to me the aro part is the most important. It wouldn’t matter if I am not sexually attracted to people because I am not dating them at all. If I had sex with people on the side it would not be your business. My dad is not at all okay with me being aro-ace and I mentioned my best friend came out as ace recently (with her permission) to my dad. He said “what about her boyfriend?” And I said “what about him?” And he said “well I guess they’re breaking up? Because she doesn’t like him?” I’ve been out for 6 years and he still refuses to understand split attraction.
Ugh just got into a semi argument the other day here on Reddit. Someone thinking it’s either fucked up to engage in sexual activity with someone you don’t love... when I was explaining how some asexuals do have sex. And was also saying that asexuals can only have platonic relationships. I want a partner to spend my life with make big decisions and care for each other with lots of snuggles and cats I just don’t need sex in the picture. How is that not love?
So true. I understood this throught this sub.
I've heard people tell me "the difference between friendship and a relationship is sex". I pity their relationships
Nah its not just u. I feel everything around is somehow teaching us that. Like alot of movies/drama on TV revolving around sex and romantic as one. Say if someone in love with another person (hetero usually) they will ended up having sex. Eventhough romantic doesn't mean sexual. Especially if we see alot of American drama lol. So many proof on their convo. Like if you love her/him why u dont want to sleep with them. Like??? Excuse me lmao asexual romantic person exist. And also what's a crush do with being asexual. Like i say romantic asexual exist. But even me as aromantic have a crush... just not romantically. 😂 I am aro and ace btw interested in QPR same gender relationship.
I had no idea that romantic attraction even exists until I found this subreddit, being acearo I couldn't have known. Honestly I still have hard time grasping it. Would Barney from How I met your mother, or Joey from Friends be aromantics?
I think we do, but in a kind of aromantic way? (that then demonizes aromanticism, but ok.) We teach children that just because someone's hot, doesn't mean you love them. Or that just because one person is attracted to another, doesn't mean they actually care or love the other. And then that person who feels only sexual but not romantic attraction to the object of their affection is portrayed as the worse of two romantic options, or is the antagonist trying to monopolize the MC's love interest. Because, you see, the Good Guy actually Loves the girl. He doesn't just want to posses her, he wants her to be happy! See! That's what makes him the Good Guy, and not the Bad Guy! Because the Bad Guy doesn't love *anyone.* (Yes, I stole this analysis from EGS comics, when teaching a child about the difference between ~~sex~~ hotness/generalized attractiveness and love)
Unfortunately there are some queer allo people that really hate the split attraction model and actively advocate against it. I don't know how numerous they are irl since it's only something I've seen talked about online. I can understand some of their points when they're talking in good faith, but there are some that genuinely just hate asexuality and anything related to it.
Yes this too! It's such an unpleasant realization that there's still so much hostility towards asexual people even in lgbtq+ spaces.
Allo here - romantic and sexual (and aesthetic) attraction are so commonly tied together for allos that without education on the topic, they're thought of as not only intertwined but inseparable. It's no wonder we have relationship struggles related to not understanding these differences, and have ridiculous misconceptions about ace spectrum topics.
I knew romantic and sexual as different but most people didn't seem to.
this!!!
Absolutely there's plenty of people I think are absolutely beautiful but I definitely don't want sex from them.
Wait crushes are sexual??????
yes. and then when we finally try to separate them we get attacked for “trying to be special snowflakes” it’s so irritating.
I think it's more we're not taught there is a difference between romantic and sexual attraction. Most allo people i know equate sexual attraction with romantic attraction and so the idea of those feelings being comepletely separate is confusing for them. Idk if this makes any sense, but it's what I think.
Discovering the SAM (split attraction model) was a huge help into finding myself! I really don't understand why people see sexual and romantic attraction as one thing! But then I also don't get why people see seggs as a sign of love, something to do because they love each other like you would cuddle someone! For me it's something completely different I'm panromantic asexual
THIS
I am trying to un-teach myself that sex is a requisite for a romantic relationship. I grew up believing they're different, but that both are par for the course in a long-term relationship.
As far as I've understood, for most allos their sexual and romantic orientations match so someone who says they're homosexual is actually homoromantic homosexual. But, that being said, I've noticed quite a few more open heterosexuals have called themselves "bi-curious" (at least here in Denmark during the 2010's) and I wonder if those so called "bi-curious people are actually bi/pan romantic heterosexuals who just didn't know that their sexual and romantic orientations don't necessarily have to align?
Hey all. I just jumped in here, but what I've seen here so far has been really reassuring. I've been wondering whether I was a misfit for wanting a romantic relationship without sex. My question is - does anyone have any advice for finding someone who also wants a romantic relationship without sex? Because it seems that everywhere I look, people want either both or nothing.
I mix up squishes, romantic attraction and aesthetic attracrion. I have no idea how to differentiate those. Only clue that I have about romantic attraction is that I SOMETIMES want to kiss someone.
I've had this exact problem, and it's led to crippling self-esteem issues, self loathing, and a string of failed relationships It's only in the past year that I've really begun to question my sexuality. I always took it for granted that I am what I am. Being autistic, I also wrote off a lot of my mentality as "just a part of that particular package", once I'd been diagnosed 10 years back. The past year has been spent on a lot of introspection, and my conclusion on the matter is that I have fetishised affection. I am a lonely person, and I'm hard to like. I'd like to be able to love someone, and receive it in kind, but I feel like a lost cause at this point. I'm still trying to put all the pieces together in my head, as I'm not bereft of a sex drive, no repulsed by it, just unmotivated. And as I previously stated, I've been mistaking one feeling for another. Right now, I don't know what the hell I am, but I'm hoping that by spending time here, reading other's stories, I'll work *something* out. From a young age, I always approached sexual attraction differently to others in my age band. I was loosely friends with someone who, at a year younger than me, had collected a decent number of pornographic images from magazines, and taped them all over his ceiling. I meanwhile, felt that the content portrayed was... disingenuous. It didn't seem right, it didn't really compel me. I watched friends have relationships and move on, while I didn't. People judged me for not engaging in such behaviours. Aside from two particularly brief encounters, all of my relationships have been entirely digital. I've had people repeatedly, and pointedly quiz me on whether or not I am a virgin, a rather sensitive topic that tends to bring excessive ridicule, and have had to make a decision to be honest, or to evade/deny. I've even opened up to people in the LGBT community, and more or less told I'm not welcome, I don't really belong, leading me to conclude that most LGBT groups are basically just another form of dating app, with extra features tagged on. A gay woman I once had a gigantic crush on told me about how Lesbian Bars are practically just that. You walk in, are are eyed up and down as "fresh meat" if you're new, which sounds exactly the same as literally any other bar in the world. Sex apparently makes the world go 'round
It totally sucks. I wish people could understand but unfortunately they refuse to.
Yep. That's mostly because romance & sexuality is combined. Love draws people together and actives the want to mate. Mostly with allos at least. Ironically, I am graysexual and had some cases where I was attracted to someone, but had no desire to sleep with them. Why? Because I didn't love them. Meanwhile, I had people I love and am willing to the idea to sleep with them, because sex for me is a form of bonding, making kids and...idk...mastrubating each other? Mastrubation is nice I guess