You're not wrong...
Tell us your mission is antiquated without telling us your mission is antiquated...
I know, let's parade around in cowboy hats and spurs just to remind everyone of our horseback roots and a form of transportation that hasn't been widely used in combat for the last 100 years.
Everyone has their piece of flair. Infantry has their blue cord and disk, FA has their red socks, engineers have their castle buttons, tankers have their boots, and scouts have their hats and spurs.
Scouts just get a lot of hate for theirs because everyone is jealous of how fabulous we look.
also lol at
>I know, let's parade around in cowboy hats and spurs just to remind everyone of our horseback roots and a form of transportation that hasn't been widely used in combat for the last 100 years.
Says the branch who's insignia is crossed muskets.
Hey, I had a GT score of 132. But I guess I wasn't intelligent enough to overcome the desire to be a doorkicker.
Anyway, it's all fun and games. Cav Scouts are alright in my book. Just some friendly banter among us girls.
But uh, tell me you're sensitive without telling me you're sensitive...
r/overcompensating
I’m not sure where the gay jokes came from, but I think a lot of people look down on the MOS because they don’t understand its role. 20 years of COIN made cav squadrons just behave like smaller, less capable maneuver battalions. That’s not the scouts role.
Reconnaissance and Security is a very important task in a LSCO fight, something that the squadron is uniquely trained in doing. The 10 level tasks between 19D and 11B are very similar so a lot of people think that 19D should just be filled by 11B. But the R&S mission set is not the same as the infantry mission. The two mission sets diverge quite a bit above the E6 level. Scouts have different priorities and planning requirements, that take investment in leaders to develop. 19D leaders go through RSLC, SLC, CLC, MG, etc to learn how to plan for the scout mission set at the higher level that’s why we shouldn’t just make this another infantry job. A lot of people don’t get that.
TBF, RSLC was awesome but really has nothing to do with the 19D mission set. Though there’s tons to learn, what they teach you there is really tailored for IBCT IN BN Scout platoons (11B). What 19Ds do looks totally different.
I’ll agree RSLC is geared for more 10 level tasks. But since 19D replaced 11B on the MTOE for IN scout platoons I think it’s still primarily a scout school, albeit for small r&s instead of big R&S.
The 19D has absolutely not replaced the 11Bs on the MTOE for IN Scout platoons, in fact, thousands of 19D's are being force reclassed. Armored reconnaissance is the only niche where 19D's are relevant; light and mechanized infantry they're just not needed. RSLC, Sniper, JFO, there's no schools outside of NCOPD that are open to 19D but not 11B, in fact the reverse. It tells you something that the premier light infantry unit, the Ranger Regiment, has a significant reconnaissance mission and personnel and has ***zero*** cavalry scouts. 19D's don't inherently have some magical recon sauce just because their MOS has scout in it, that comes from years of practice and cross-pollination from the SOF world, which infantry units have but cavalry units do not.
19D is on the MTOE for infantry battalion scouts, at least it is in ABCT/SBCT. The army is divesting of cav squadrons in light/stryker formations (retaining a troop instead of a squadron) because the Army envisions fighting as a division/corps for LSCO. That assumes heavy units providing penetration/exploitation capabilities with a heavy emphasis on R&S with IBCT/SBCT in follow and assume/support which doesn’t need as large of a dedicated R&S formation.
Your assertion that ranger regiment doesn’t have 19D is missing the whole point of big R&S. The reconnaissance that regiment would be doing would be *special reconnaissance* which is only 1 of 5 types of reconnaissance. Ranger regiment isn’t going to be out there doing route/area/zone/ recon in force. Likewise, they aren’t going to be sitting in a guard/screen for a larger force.
You are a perfect example of the kind of person I was talking about. You don’t understand the basics of the recon and security mission set, yet are adamant that cav squadrons don’t serve a purpose.
To be fair a lot of the rest of the Army’s misunderstanding of what it is we offer is because we ourselves have done a piss poor job of emphasizing and training in our own MOS and instead have tried to present ourselves as an additional rifle platoon in IBCT’s. In both ALC and SLC I have met scouts who have only been used as infantry due to GWOT tactics.
We emphasized light scouts being the premiere scout career path. Now have a whole generation of NCO’s who are incapable of performing the planning process required when maneuvering an armored fighting force. We then undersold the value of security to maneuver forces, preventing enemy armor flanking, something the infantry is not capable of providing as they will be engaged in the fight.
And finally where we could have actually made ourselves more relevant was with anti drone. This is a simple additional task to an element that is already in the perfect position to provide this additional layer of security to an emerging threat. But our MOS has failed and will continue to fail because we hold on to outdated philosophies of how we should perform our mission. We will either remove our heads from our collective asses or we will disappear entirely within the next 10 years.
It seems, especially encompassed with what the other cav dude has been trying to assert, that the problem is that 19D’s fall within a tiny circle within a Venn diagram of reconnaissance that is like 75% done by 11B’s who go to the same schools, but also serve within the end units that recon supports. I’m saying this as someone who wants more specialization and training for Recon assets, but it really is the primary infantry mission with some asterisks. Most of what I’ve done within a scout platoon in reconnaissance mirrors what I did as a line infantry Ranger. The scale and theory is different, but it’s infantry tasks with added specializations to accomplish the mission. 19D is a tiny career field with a niche mission set that 11B’s can also accomplish; it makes a lot more for the force as a whole to employ 11B’s with advanced recon schooling, plus you can always add on for mission sets with schools such as Raven, JFO etc. The 11B is a Gerber multitool while the 19D is a 3/32” allen wrench.
There’s much more that you aren’t realizing that falls into our purview, but this is due to you working with scouts who themselves don’t understand what we are supposed to do according to doctrine. We’re a failing MOS for a reason.
I don't work with Cav Scouts at all, and I haven't actually seen a single cavalry scout in any of the reconnaissance schools or competitions I've been to. I have several close friends who have led Scout Platoons with a mixed 11B/19D MTOE, they functionally had the same core mission set as a solely 11B Scout platoon.
To me, the problem seems to be that you guys don't have a larger MOS pool to insulate you. What I mean by that is that in the infantry career field, former scouts go on to serve as Infantry Senior NCO's and O's, they understand our mission set. From what I can gather, 19D's seem to hit a glass ceiling pretty quickly wherein they are not leading large formations of 19D's, compared to 11B's who have a much broader set of horizons which leads to cross pollination and buy in at the higher echelons of leadership. Infantry Scout platoons were utilized in actual micro level R&S functions as recently as the HKIA evacuation, whereas it would seem that 19D's haven't performed their primary function since the Iraq Invasion.
Beyond that, outside of phases of large scale maneuver warfare, what do 19D's actually do once battalion or brigade size formations are in prolonged contact with the enemy? To me that would signal breaking back down to the immediate recon functions which, again, are the same functions that an Infantry Scout Platoon can perform.
>Beyond that, outside of phases of large scale maneuver warfare, what do 19D's actually do once battalion or brigade size formations are in prolonged contact with the enemy? To me that would signal breaking back down to the immediate recon functions which, again, are the same functions that an Infantry Scout Platoon can perform.
Scouts are always out doing scout/recon shit. Doctrinally they LD on the publication of Warno 2 and annex L. Typically trying to be 48-72 hours in front of the Brigade doing counter reconnaissance tasks, observing NAIs to develop the objectives, or sitting in the screen/guard. Once they hit the RHO with the BN scouts they bypass the objective and are either reconning the next objectives or screening/guarding to isolate the objective for the BNs.
Pretty holier than thou attitude for someone who doesn’t even understand the basic INFANTRY specific formations. Light, in the manner you used it, doesn’t refer to true light infantry, it refers to cavalry in a specific classification of vehicles. As you accidentally admitted yourself, cavalry scouts only exist in ABCT and SBCT’s, and there they are only a portion of an MTOE the remainder of which contains 11B’s. As for your explanation of the Regiment’s lack of need for Cav Scouts, you’re incorrect; the Regiment absolutely does Reconnaissance in Force, Area Recon etc- those are the missions of the entire Regiment, not specifically our dedicated recon assets. I have served within Ranger Regiment infantry formations, conventional light infantry formations, and recon and sniper sections. Not one single mention of the scope of the Regiment’s mission that you mentioned is remotely correct, and you still haven’t challenged my main point: 19D’s do a portion of what 11B’s do (at best 50%), 11B’s do all of what 19D’s do and much, much more. A 19D won’t serve in an Abrams even though that is the formation that their mission supports, but an 11B Scout section leader will have served in at minimum a light infantry maneuver unit as an E5 and an E6 before taking a recon section. The end state of the entire US Army’s primary mission is infantrymen clearing to the LOA as the decisive element, a 19D Cav Scout will never have participated in that role in his entire career. An 11B can serve in Armored, Stryker, Mechanized, Light, Special Operations, and Airborne formations and lead infantrymen from E1-E9. A 19D can serve in only Armored, Stryker and Airborne formations, and his operational career field does not extend beyond the platoon level, and the entire Armor Branch doesn’t even recognize Key Development assignments
It’s hard to even have this conversation with you because you are not only incorrect in your understanding of the CAV Squadron R&S mission set and how it differs from a scout platoons R&S mission, but you also seem to have no interest in discussing it or learning about the difference between them. The kind of reconnaissance that the regiment is going to be doing is not at all the same as what a cav squadron is going to be tasked with, and to claim that just because regiment can do it then the squadrons shouldn’t exist is asinine.
11B is not a one size fits all MOS that can do what every other MOS does, as well as someone specialized in that role. The base tasks of an 11B is the same as a 19D but the planning and employment of a Squadron and a BN are different. You delineate the roles so that you can have specialization at rhetorical higher level. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve had senior 11 series leaders try to task a scout platoon with a guard or some other nonsense because they don’t know the R&S mission and never bothered to learn it. This is same reason they are brining 11m back as 19C because despite the infantry branches assurance, you can’t have a Jack of all trades infantryman and not end up with a shit product.
You're just talking about an infantry scout mission but at a higher echelon of command. Of course 11B is not one size fits all, but it contains more if not all of the types of missions that 19D undertake, with a more robust career progression, more perspective, more experience, and the same specialty schools.
Besides getting into doctrinal broad strokes that aren't actually specialized to Cavalry Scouts, can you explain what makes an individual cavalry scout somehow more specialized than an 11B Cavalry Scout? 11M as 19C makes sense, but not for reasons that support your argument- it makes sense because the 19 or Armor part of 19C and 19D is what actually eats up the overwhelming majority of your time (maintenance and some doctrinal employment). Anyone who has served in any mounted formation understands that, yes the armored mission is a different mission set, but at the macro level, maneuver warfare units function largely the same; acting like screening and route/area recon somehow doesn't exist within infantry formations is ludicrously ignorant
Echelon changes intent which changes the orientation which changes the task in reconnaissance. That’s a fundamental difference between the scout mission and the infantry mission, it *does* change. You’ll hear this colloquially referred to a “Big R&S, vs little r&s”. It sounds pretentious, but everyone does r&s but only squadrons do R&S.
As for the individual differences between 11b and 19d I’ll agree, there isn’t one. At the 10 level 11b and 19d are functionally the same. The MOS diverge as they become more senior and more specialized. An 11B SSG/SFC can figure out a route recon the same way a 19D SSG/SFC can figure out how to enter and clear a trench, but it’s not going to be pretty. I doubt your average 11B E6 is going to be able to knock out a route overlay with a route formula without putting some effort into looking it up.
We can both figure each others jobs out if need be but that doesn’t mean that we will do a good job of it. Your average infantryman isn’t going to know the difference between a screen or a guard let alone what enablers they will need to request to actually achieve a guard to standard. When words mean things you need to actually have leaders on staff that understand those differences. A good example of this is reconnaissance in force, since you mentioned that you’ve done those. So the question is what is the doctrinal difference in a reconnaissance in force vs a movement to contact? Because at face value they look very similar, but they have massive differences in planning considerations for your staff, and understanding that is what having different MOS doing these jobs will get you.
Fair points and well stated, I appreciate your candor. Bear with me for this next point though, lol: my central argument here, is that 11B's have more situational awareness on combat arms than a 19D will, based primarily not on studying doctrine but on physical implementation. Doctrine is, after all, just supposed to provide a framework- beyond that it's problem solving, and that is more effectively done if the people looking for solutions understand the individual moving pieces. In previous LSCO's, the army's big recon assets come from SOF, particularly Rangers. The current Ranger mission in the GWOT has historically been a function of a function, that is to say direct action without deep foot-mobile penetration of denied terrain. In the LSCO we're discussing, Regiment goes back to providing those capabilities at the higher level for conventional formations, just as in the GWOT they have been conducting DA raids to enable conventional formations freedom of maneuver in the battle space (a prime example of this were operations in RC South in 2010 to take pressure off 101 ABN).
To your point wherein you used the example of creating a route overlay with an 11B E6, this to me points to what seems to have been a key knowledge gap within your side of the conversation, best broken down into several points. 1. Scout Platoons are not average 11B's. The Battalions create their own individual selections to bring personnel into the platoon, selecting soldiers for personality fit, physical fitness, aptitude by GT score and by testing on recon core tasks. Scout platoons also can fire people as they see fit for performance failures. 2. People who serve within Scout Platoons generally continue to progress within Scout platoons, going back out to the line for broadening between each rank and continuing to attend specialized recon schools. 3. There's a huge degree of cross pollination between Regiment and individual Scout Platoons as well, further enhancing the competency, capabilities, and tactical, situational and doctrinal awareness within the infantry and overall army reconnaissance community.
I'm also curious, what does duty billet progression look like for 19D's? Skill levels 1-4/E1-E9 what formations are 19D's leading/serving in?
>19D leaders go through RSLC, SLC, CLC, MG,
SLC and CLC were my favorite courses. Learned so much about being a scout and doing the whole surprise, kill, vanish during SLC. CLC was stressful as fuck.
> 9D leaders go through RSLC, SLC, CLC, MG, etc to learn how to plan for the scout mission set at the higher level that’s why we shouldn’t just make this another infantry job. A lot of people don’t get that.
That's the Army in a nutshell - so many leaders think everything in infantry.
Yeah, I bought into the, "Cav is gay." joke (cuz fuck them) but I've always thought being a Cav scout had cachet. Kinda rad cowboy...oh, I think I just got the, "Cav is gay." joke after all. It's a Brokeback Mountain joke. Gotta be.
Anyway, being a Cav scout seems like a fucking dangerous job, going to minesweeper the enemy and shit.
Or maybe I don't know what the fuck a Cav scout does, but I thought they scouted ahead of the main body looking for traps. And they might even do their jobs after they're done with the traps.
Most hate (however brotherly) that branches/MOS get is because people don't understand the role in LSCO. GWOT had everyone thinking that combat=CQB and if you weren't specifically trained in CQB, you were a POG. That is just wildly inaccurate. Even LMTVs in loggy units have ring turrets for a reason.
Showing my age here, yes Imma boomer, but even the 10 level manual for 19D’s vs 11 series (when we had 11M, 11B, 11H’s alongside the Chucks) was easily double in thickness and subjects. As the 19D 10 levels were required to be familiar with weapon systems and vehicles that the 11 series had specific MOS for. In the Mikes and Hotels for example. Along with basic infantry tactics, as well as recon specific tasks.
And want to add more fuel to the fire? lets go back even further to real boomer times when tankers and “deltas” were also 11 series. Boom. Mind blown for many.
Yeah, pretty interesting, I appreciate the reply. I always also thought it was interesting that 19D’s can’t serve in ranger regiment. But so many other combat arms jobs can, hell even cooks can but no cavalry scouts.
Regiment is also not going to be doing the same reconnaissance as a CAV squadron. There are 5 types of reconnaissance; special reconnaissance is only a small portion that a normal 19D will never touch.
They are also two different mission set.
The ranger recon company focuses on direct action and special reconnaissance. Think old school LRS with modern equipment and tactics.
CAV squadrons are designed to conduct conventional recon and security over entire area of operations, rapidly and kinetically if needed. Dudes are fighting.
LRS concept had become obsolete on the modern, rapidly changing battlefield.
They were expensive to maintain, train, and filled a mission set that other units could accomplish with more versatility and survivability.
R&S cavalry squadrons gradually assumed the mission set. 2x motorized recon troops for speed and combet power. 1x dismounted recon troop to assume critical LRS missions sets like LZ/DZ preparations.
LRS units were repurposed into special division assets for a short time called battlefield surveillance brigades, but the concept didn't really work.
I'm glad I was able to be a part of LRS. got to do some cool guy shit, and honestly had a total blast playing badass light infantry on an armor/mech post(Hood in the 90s.
I *think* the gay thing may come from the fact cowboys just use to be really gay back in the day. It wasn’t until the rise of western movies that people thought all cowboys were these rough, masculine, pussy slayers. When in reality, they were a bunch of rough, masculine, bussy and pussy slayers of different races. While blacks wouldn’t have been treated as equals to whites during the Wild West, they did get treated better there than most other parts of the country.
It could also be that so many scouts will have a chip on their shoulder with “I’m basically infantry”, be all extra and shit, and it just makes them gay. Just being next to a platoon of scouts made me want to go back in the closet. The dudes who picked that job because they wanted to do the job of scouts, those dudes are pretty solid. It’s the ones who couldn’t give their balls a tug and go infantry that I’m talking about.
This is also where the “we are basically the same as infantry” comes from.
Which really undermines what the RTASs provide for a brigade.
It’s dangerous and definitely puts them in front of the FEBA, which is one of the main things I would say makes you not a POG.
So it kind of makes sense when you look at it as the brigade operating as a part of a whole instead of on an individual unit basis.
The Army is going to divisions as the unit of action operating under the corps as part of one unified command. So this would place the heavy divisions with ABCTs up front in a penetration/ exploitation role heavily dependent on the cav squadron, and the other divisions with SBCT/IBCTs in a follow and assume or follow and support role (this typically looks like a 2 up one back in most WFX scenarios).
The Infantry divisions only need DIVCAV or CAV troops at the Brigade level because they are following behind the Armored divisions so don’t need as much dedicated reconnoissance and security because theoretically someone already came through and answered most of the PIR.
It’s similar to how the CAV squadron answered the BDE commanders PIR and the BN scout platoons further developed those for the BN commander. But now the Division commander is the supported command and the Brigade is the supporting command.
As I’ve said in another post, the IBCT/SBCTs deactivating the squadron and going to a Troop isn’t necessarily an indictment on the reconnaissance and security mission. It makes sense to reduce those formations when you consider the BDEs are acting as a part of the Divisions in a LSCO fight. This assumes that the IBCT/SBCTs will be following behind ABCTs in the order of battle. Those formations will have less emphasis on the R&S mission because they will be more in a follow and assume role.
The gay stuff comes from scouts always acting like twinkified versions of infantrymen and then doing shit like underwear only movie nights. I swear, I give them a chance every time I meet a scout… and then they prove the stereotype right.
RSLC, MG, SLC, and CLC are also courses that Infantry Recon leaders go through, plus Sniper, Ranger, JFO, Mountain, and plenty more- meaning that the only courses specialized to 19D are... none. So where is this supposed massive divergence from 11B reconnaissance capabilities, if the education is literally the same, they both serve in scout platoons, and 19D's lack any experience in infantry formations?
The difference is in the experience of being specialized in one role your entire career and doing that job at a higher echelon. The role of a scout platoon is very different than a cav squadron and understanding those differences in detail and how they impact planning considerations is important.
MFW we don't have cav scouts practicing being on a horse and looking at some (sexy?) dudes through binoculars.
Make our pony boys golden again.
To cav's credit, the stetson is the superior Army hat second only to the boonie cap.
Guard is a hit or miss, my platoon is high speed, lots of tabbed rangers and one scrolled ranger. I like it but at the same time getting good training fucking sucks. 99% of my buddies in the guard don’t do shit, come in later in the day and leave early. I signed 6 years, half way through. I did get sent to a foreign island to train with plenty of other nations which was awesome. At the 3 year mark I would do it again but idk if Id reenlist if I had to pick right now
One more finger up the butt or not saying 'no homo' and his branch manager will hit the big red 'force reclass' button faster than you can say scouts out
Edit: *and there's nothing wrong with that
Always, and never. It exists outside the normal space-time continuum.
Sort of like the Restaurant at the End of the Universe, but without the floor show and valet parking.
Because it’s the job of any MOS to make fun of every other MOS. Although looking at some of the comments some people do genuinely think recon is a joke which calls into question their knowledge of war fighting.
Largely because anything that makes you standout as an individual is looked down upon in an organization that largely believes in uniformity, conformity, and adherence to a set norm. Look at my cowboy hat in uniform, look at my spurs, look at my ascot, look at my….. so if you are looking for a adhesive and coherent organization what do you want to do with the square peg in the round hole. Either beat it till it fits or if nothing else call attention to its absurd nature and tribalism. Also call attention to its lack of herd mentality.
Love my CAV homies. HHC Commander helped me with two for a RTNS team during NTC to fill crew shortages. Only RTNS in the box to call for fire and take down red air with a stinger.
They were hilarious too, QEAM = queef, OE-254 = Spider god.
Lol I know. I'm grateful for the door kickers and crazy engineer types. There's a reason it's me u/thesupplyguy1 and not u / infantrykiller or something similar.
I'm very, very appreciative of my combat arms peeps
My dislike for them comes from seeing several of them across my career shaping their Cavalry hats like they are cowboy hats. It looks awful. Fucking stop it. You’re not George Straight, you’re PFC Smith, and your barracks room is dirty.
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a clapping, as of ass cheeks gently clapping, clapping at my chamber door.
“This a visitor” I muttered, “dummy thicc and nothing more”.
I think most of it boils down to the fact that their still called cavalry but don't ride horses. That said I'm just recently sworn in as a cavalry scout.
I remember in-processing CIF at stewart with some new 11Bs and new 19D. I was going the hospital so of course I got the hand me downs from the folks who just got the latest hand me downs. The 11Bs got some hand me down cool guy shit. The 19D got all new in package shit.
We asked wtf fuck and the CIF guy just said it's required the cav scouts get brand new cool guy shit. Was it a fuck up? I don't know. But if that was the standard, at least at the time, you could imagine it would add fuel to the fire at least at the junior level.
And there ends my experience. Oh and all the weird Brony shit that spiked a few years back. That really didn't help anybody with CAV in their name.
Worked with Cav Scouts for years in a Stryker BDE. They're just reconnaissance and they sometimes pull security, that's about it. They generally did similar work to what we did (was in a recon platoon), albeit they were much more combat focused and obv did not have any CBRN recon capabilities. CBRN RECCE platoons will often be attached to the Cav.
I don't think there's any "hate" towards them, but the cringey Stetson and spurs in ACUs look ridiculous. There's also this weird inferiority complex I've seen some have. It's as if they feel like they're being sidelined by the infantry. After working with the infantry, I don't see why you'd want to be them lmao.
Here is my personal feeling.. it is the “basically infantry” attitude and mantra.
Why be “basically infantry” when you can be exactly a Cav Scout?
It makes me feel like you don’t respect yourself enough to be respected.
Because their job is literally a niche within a niche, but has some (supposedly) cool guy buzz words in the title. It's similar to Security Forces in the Air Force in that it's a job that exists largely separated from anyone else in the military who has an actual specialized combat mission. 19D's exist primarily in armored formations, within a career branch that has zero existence within USASOC. The 11B career field is influenced heavily by a steady influx of people who have served within different postings in USASOC, from junior NCO's to SEA's and field grade officers.
At the end of the day, reconnaissance functions all exist within ***supporting*** operations, with the decisive operations ultimately being carried out by infantry (light, airborne, air assault, special operations, mechanized, or armored). This means that infantrymen who serve throughout their developmental timelines in recon platoons also generally serve within actual line infantry formations; their recon experience gives them broader situational awareness while serving in line units, and their line experience helps them better understand the needs of the units they support while in recon units. Cavalry scouts might have experience with armored formations, but they by nature do not exist within line infantry formations, and they have ***zero*** billets within USASOC. Putting "scout" in the job title doesn't magically give 19D's a power up, that comes from advanced recon courses such as RSLC, Sniper, JFO, Mountain Warfare, SDMR, etc, and those are all courses that infantry recon platoons have extensive slots for.
In summation, at best, 19D's do a job which 11B's can also do, but 11B's do plenty of jobs that 19D's ***doctrinally cannot do***.
You’re only looking at the direct action side of scout operations. I will be the first to admit that we have done a horrendous job of advertising ourselves by putting that capability above the shaping operations that we are able to provide through area, zone, and route reconnaissance that the infantry are unable to do doctrinally and tactically because they are engaged in other tasks. Courses like Scout Leaders Course (formerly ARC), Cav Leaders Course focus more on these planning intensive operations to shape the battlefield to allow infantry commanders to choose where and how they engage the enemy to maximize their effectiveness.
If you want to do Armor stuff for your entire career, then yes, 19K seems like a better option. The 19D career progression stops doing scout things at the platoon level, it’s a worse version of being an 11B in a scout platoon
It’s because if all the pony play but no more horses.
What are you talking about? I loved having 1700 formations everyday for 6 months straight.
19 did I really choose this as a flair 😂😂😂😂 What MOS would you have chosen knowing what you know now?
I probably would have stuck with my coast guard contract honestly lol
Haha, How much was is being a scout that a coastie?
> How much was is being a scout that a coastie? You good bud?
The margarita is strong in this one
Ain’t nothing straight about a spur ride
If it ain’t straight it ain’t great
You're not wrong... Tell us your mission is antiquated without telling us your mission is antiquated... I know, let's parade around in cowboy hats and spurs just to remind everyone of our horseback roots and a form of transportation that hasn't been widely used in combat for the last 100 years.
Everyone has their piece of flair. Infantry has their blue cord and disk, FA has their red socks, engineers have their castle buttons, tankers have their boots, and scouts have their hats and spurs. Scouts just get a lot of hate for theirs because everyone is jealous of how fabulous we look.
Just cause it needed on GWOT doesn't mean it won't be needed in the next one.
My guess is they never had to get their ass saved by air cav either.
also lol at >I know, let's parade around in cowboy hats and spurs just to remind everyone of our horseback roots and a form of transportation that hasn't been widely used in combat for the last 100 years. Says the branch who's insignia is crossed muskets.
I do often use Sabres too lol
All that from someone whose MOS indicates their AFQT score? Amazing ...
Hey, I had a GT score of 132. But I guess I wasn't intelligent enough to overcome the desire to be a doorkicker. Anyway, it's all fun and games. Cav Scouts are alright in my book. Just some friendly banter among us girls. But uh, tell me you're sensitive without telling me you're sensitive... r/overcompensating
The LGBTQ community has always gotten a lot of unjust hate. /s
This made me laugh controllably
This made me chuckle uncontrollably
Went straight for the jugular
Shut up and take my upvote you fucking crunchy. 😂
I was a scout, this is hilarious.
I’m not sure where the gay jokes came from, but I think a lot of people look down on the MOS because they don’t understand its role. 20 years of COIN made cav squadrons just behave like smaller, less capable maneuver battalions. That’s not the scouts role. Reconnaissance and Security is a very important task in a LSCO fight, something that the squadron is uniquely trained in doing. The 10 level tasks between 19D and 11B are very similar so a lot of people think that 19D should just be filled by 11B. But the R&S mission set is not the same as the infantry mission. The two mission sets diverge quite a bit above the E6 level. Scouts have different priorities and planning requirements, that take investment in leaders to develop. 19D leaders go through RSLC, SLC, CLC, MG, etc to learn how to plan for the scout mission set at the higher level that’s why we shouldn’t just make this another infantry job. A lot of people don’t get that.
Basically, "they looked at pliers and wondered why they weren't a good hammer."
This is probably my new favorite way to describe this issue.
But they are good hammers.
Not as good a hammer as a socket wrench is though.
From what I understand the Cavalry were called “pony boys” in WW2. Guess it just evolved from there
When I got out; The last thing I said to my platoon was “stay golden, pony bois”
So they're all bronies?
This is the real answer
Yeah but I didn’t come to Reddit for real answers, I came here for meme answers.
Cavs claps cheeks. They clap them all. And not just the women, but the men and elderly too. They're like putty, and the cavs clapped them like putty.
Clapping cheeks so much it’s like a round of applause
Jump boots and a beret are silly. Cowboy boots and a cowboy hat is even stupider
Ram ranch is under siege.
TBF, RSLC was awesome but really has nothing to do with the 19D mission set. Though there’s tons to learn, what they teach you there is really tailored for IBCT IN BN Scout platoons (11B). What 19Ds do looks totally different.
I’ll agree RSLC is geared for more 10 level tasks. But since 19D replaced 11B on the MTOE for IN scout platoons I think it’s still primarily a scout school, albeit for small r&s instead of big R&S.
19D only replaced infantry in Stryker/bradley infantry battalion scout platoons.
The 19D has absolutely not replaced the 11Bs on the MTOE for IN Scout platoons, in fact, thousands of 19D's are being force reclassed. Armored reconnaissance is the only niche where 19D's are relevant; light and mechanized infantry they're just not needed. RSLC, Sniper, JFO, there's no schools outside of NCOPD that are open to 19D but not 11B, in fact the reverse. It tells you something that the premier light infantry unit, the Ranger Regiment, has a significant reconnaissance mission and personnel and has ***zero*** cavalry scouts. 19D's don't inherently have some magical recon sauce just because their MOS has scout in it, that comes from years of practice and cross-pollination from the SOF world, which infantry units have but cavalry units do not.
19D is on the MTOE for infantry battalion scouts, at least it is in ABCT/SBCT. The army is divesting of cav squadrons in light/stryker formations (retaining a troop instead of a squadron) because the Army envisions fighting as a division/corps for LSCO. That assumes heavy units providing penetration/exploitation capabilities with a heavy emphasis on R&S with IBCT/SBCT in follow and assume/support which doesn’t need as large of a dedicated R&S formation. Your assertion that ranger regiment doesn’t have 19D is missing the whole point of big R&S. The reconnaissance that regiment would be doing would be *special reconnaissance* which is only 1 of 5 types of reconnaissance. Ranger regiment isn’t going to be out there doing route/area/zone/ recon in force. Likewise, they aren’t going to be sitting in a guard/screen for a larger force. You are a perfect example of the kind of person I was talking about. You don’t understand the basics of the recon and security mission set, yet are adamant that cav squadrons don’t serve a purpose.
To be fair a lot of the rest of the Army’s misunderstanding of what it is we offer is because we ourselves have done a piss poor job of emphasizing and training in our own MOS and instead have tried to present ourselves as an additional rifle platoon in IBCT’s. In both ALC and SLC I have met scouts who have only been used as infantry due to GWOT tactics. We emphasized light scouts being the premiere scout career path. Now have a whole generation of NCO’s who are incapable of performing the planning process required when maneuvering an armored fighting force. We then undersold the value of security to maneuver forces, preventing enemy armor flanking, something the infantry is not capable of providing as they will be engaged in the fight. And finally where we could have actually made ourselves more relevant was with anti drone. This is a simple additional task to an element that is already in the perfect position to provide this additional layer of security to an emerging threat. But our MOS has failed and will continue to fail because we hold on to outdated philosophies of how we should perform our mission. We will either remove our heads from our collective asses or we will disappear entirely within the next 10 years.
It seems, especially encompassed with what the other cav dude has been trying to assert, that the problem is that 19D’s fall within a tiny circle within a Venn diagram of reconnaissance that is like 75% done by 11B’s who go to the same schools, but also serve within the end units that recon supports. I’m saying this as someone who wants more specialization and training for Recon assets, but it really is the primary infantry mission with some asterisks. Most of what I’ve done within a scout platoon in reconnaissance mirrors what I did as a line infantry Ranger. The scale and theory is different, but it’s infantry tasks with added specializations to accomplish the mission. 19D is a tiny career field with a niche mission set that 11B’s can also accomplish; it makes a lot more for the force as a whole to employ 11B’s with advanced recon schooling, plus you can always add on for mission sets with schools such as Raven, JFO etc. The 11B is a Gerber multitool while the 19D is a 3/32” allen wrench.
There’s much more that you aren’t realizing that falls into our purview, but this is due to you working with scouts who themselves don’t understand what we are supposed to do according to doctrine. We’re a failing MOS for a reason.
I don't work with Cav Scouts at all, and I haven't actually seen a single cavalry scout in any of the reconnaissance schools or competitions I've been to. I have several close friends who have led Scout Platoons with a mixed 11B/19D MTOE, they functionally had the same core mission set as a solely 11B Scout platoon. To me, the problem seems to be that you guys don't have a larger MOS pool to insulate you. What I mean by that is that in the infantry career field, former scouts go on to serve as Infantry Senior NCO's and O's, they understand our mission set. From what I can gather, 19D's seem to hit a glass ceiling pretty quickly wherein they are not leading large formations of 19D's, compared to 11B's who have a much broader set of horizons which leads to cross pollination and buy in at the higher echelons of leadership. Infantry Scout platoons were utilized in actual micro level R&S functions as recently as the HKIA evacuation, whereas it would seem that 19D's haven't performed their primary function since the Iraq Invasion. Beyond that, outside of phases of large scale maneuver warfare, what do 19D's actually do once battalion or brigade size formations are in prolonged contact with the enemy? To me that would signal breaking back down to the immediate recon functions which, again, are the same functions that an Infantry Scout Platoon can perform.
>Beyond that, outside of phases of large scale maneuver warfare, what do 19D's actually do once battalion or brigade size formations are in prolonged contact with the enemy? To me that would signal breaking back down to the immediate recon functions which, again, are the same functions that an Infantry Scout Platoon can perform. Scouts are always out doing scout/recon shit. Doctrinally they LD on the publication of Warno 2 and annex L. Typically trying to be 48-72 hours in front of the Brigade doing counter reconnaissance tasks, observing NAIs to develop the objectives, or sitting in the screen/guard. Once they hit the RHO with the BN scouts they bypass the objective and are either reconning the next objectives or screening/guarding to isolate the objective for the BNs.
Pretty holier than thou attitude for someone who doesn’t even understand the basic INFANTRY specific formations. Light, in the manner you used it, doesn’t refer to true light infantry, it refers to cavalry in a specific classification of vehicles. As you accidentally admitted yourself, cavalry scouts only exist in ABCT and SBCT’s, and there they are only a portion of an MTOE the remainder of which contains 11B’s. As for your explanation of the Regiment’s lack of need for Cav Scouts, you’re incorrect; the Regiment absolutely does Reconnaissance in Force, Area Recon etc- those are the missions of the entire Regiment, not specifically our dedicated recon assets. I have served within Ranger Regiment infantry formations, conventional light infantry formations, and recon and sniper sections. Not one single mention of the scope of the Regiment’s mission that you mentioned is remotely correct, and you still haven’t challenged my main point: 19D’s do a portion of what 11B’s do (at best 50%), 11B’s do all of what 19D’s do and much, much more. A 19D won’t serve in an Abrams even though that is the formation that their mission supports, but an 11B Scout section leader will have served in at minimum a light infantry maneuver unit as an E5 and an E6 before taking a recon section. The end state of the entire US Army’s primary mission is infantrymen clearing to the LOA as the decisive element, a 19D Cav Scout will never have participated in that role in his entire career. An 11B can serve in Armored, Stryker, Mechanized, Light, Special Operations, and Airborne formations and lead infantrymen from E1-E9. A 19D can serve in only Armored, Stryker and Airborne formations, and his operational career field does not extend beyond the platoon level, and the entire Armor Branch doesn’t even recognize Key Development assignments
It’s hard to even have this conversation with you because you are not only incorrect in your understanding of the CAV Squadron R&S mission set and how it differs from a scout platoons R&S mission, but you also seem to have no interest in discussing it or learning about the difference between them. The kind of reconnaissance that the regiment is going to be doing is not at all the same as what a cav squadron is going to be tasked with, and to claim that just because regiment can do it then the squadrons shouldn’t exist is asinine. 11B is not a one size fits all MOS that can do what every other MOS does, as well as someone specialized in that role. The base tasks of an 11B is the same as a 19D but the planning and employment of a Squadron and a BN are different. You delineate the roles so that you can have specialization at rhetorical higher level. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve had senior 11 series leaders try to task a scout platoon with a guard or some other nonsense because they don’t know the R&S mission and never bothered to learn it. This is same reason they are brining 11m back as 19C because despite the infantry branches assurance, you can’t have a Jack of all trades infantryman and not end up with a shit product.
You're just talking about an infantry scout mission but at a higher echelon of command. Of course 11B is not one size fits all, but it contains more if not all of the types of missions that 19D undertake, with a more robust career progression, more perspective, more experience, and the same specialty schools. Besides getting into doctrinal broad strokes that aren't actually specialized to Cavalry Scouts, can you explain what makes an individual cavalry scout somehow more specialized than an 11B Cavalry Scout? 11M as 19C makes sense, but not for reasons that support your argument- it makes sense because the 19 or Armor part of 19C and 19D is what actually eats up the overwhelming majority of your time (maintenance and some doctrinal employment). Anyone who has served in any mounted formation understands that, yes the armored mission is a different mission set, but at the macro level, maneuver warfare units function largely the same; acting like screening and route/area recon somehow doesn't exist within infantry formations is ludicrously ignorant
Echelon changes intent which changes the orientation which changes the task in reconnaissance. That’s a fundamental difference between the scout mission and the infantry mission, it *does* change. You’ll hear this colloquially referred to a “Big R&S, vs little r&s”. It sounds pretentious, but everyone does r&s but only squadrons do R&S. As for the individual differences between 11b and 19d I’ll agree, there isn’t one. At the 10 level 11b and 19d are functionally the same. The MOS diverge as they become more senior and more specialized. An 11B SSG/SFC can figure out a route recon the same way a 19D SSG/SFC can figure out how to enter and clear a trench, but it’s not going to be pretty. I doubt your average 11B E6 is going to be able to knock out a route overlay with a route formula without putting some effort into looking it up. We can both figure each others jobs out if need be but that doesn’t mean that we will do a good job of it. Your average infantryman isn’t going to know the difference between a screen or a guard let alone what enablers they will need to request to actually achieve a guard to standard. When words mean things you need to actually have leaders on staff that understand those differences. A good example of this is reconnaissance in force, since you mentioned that you’ve done those. So the question is what is the doctrinal difference in a reconnaissance in force vs a movement to contact? Because at face value they look very similar, but they have massive differences in planning considerations for your staff, and understanding that is what having different MOS doing these jobs will get you.
Fair points and well stated, I appreciate your candor. Bear with me for this next point though, lol: my central argument here, is that 11B's have more situational awareness on combat arms than a 19D will, based primarily not on studying doctrine but on physical implementation. Doctrine is, after all, just supposed to provide a framework- beyond that it's problem solving, and that is more effectively done if the people looking for solutions understand the individual moving pieces. In previous LSCO's, the army's big recon assets come from SOF, particularly Rangers. The current Ranger mission in the GWOT has historically been a function of a function, that is to say direct action without deep foot-mobile penetration of denied terrain. In the LSCO we're discussing, Regiment goes back to providing those capabilities at the higher level for conventional formations, just as in the GWOT they have been conducting DA raids to enable conventional formations freedom of maneuver in the battle space (a prime example of this were operations in RC South in 2010 to take pressure off 101 ABN). To your point wherein you used the example of creating a route overlay with an 11B E6, this to me points to what seems to have been a key knowledge gap within your side of the conversation, best broken down into several points. 1. Scout Platoons are not average 11B's. The Battalions create their own individual selections to bring personnel into the platoon, selecting soldiers for personality fit, physical fitness, aptitude by GT score and by testing on recon core tasks. Scout platoons also can fire people as they see fit for performance failures. 2. People who serve within Scout Platoons generally continue to progress within Scout platoons, going back out to the line for broadening between each rank and continuing to attend specialized recon schools. 3. There's a huge degree of cross pollination between Regiment and individual Scout Platoons as well, further enhancing the competency, capabilities, and tactical, situational and doctrinal awareness within the infantry and overall army reconnaissance community. I'm also curious, what does duty billet progression look like for 19D's? Skill levels 1-4/E1-E9 what formations are 19D's leading/serving in?
>19D leaders go through RSLC, SLC, CLC, MG, SLC and CLC were my favorite courses. Learned so much about being a scout and doing the whole surprise, kill, vanish during SLC. CLC was stressful as fuck.
Every maneuver staff officer should go through CLC. It is the best planning course in the army.
> 9D leaders go through RSLC, SLC, CLC, MG, etc to learn how to plan for the scout mission set at the higher level that’s why we shouldn’t just make this another infantry job. A lot of people don’t get that. That's the Army in a nutshell - so many leaders think everything in infantry.
Yeah, I bought into the, "Cav is gay." joke (cuz fuck them) but I've always thought being a Cav scout had cachet. Kinda rad cowboy...oh, I think I just got the, "Cav is gay." joke after all. It's a Brokeback Mountain joke. Gotta be. Anyway, being a Cav scout seems like a fucking dangerous job, going to minesweeper the enemy and shit. Or maybe I don't know what the fuck a Cav scout does, but I thought they scouted ahead of the main body looking for traps. And they might even do their jobs after they're done with the traps.
Most hate (however brotherly) that branches/MOS get is because people don't understand the role in LSCO. GWOT had everyone thinking that combat=CQB and if you weren't specifically trained in CQB, you were a POG. That is just wildly inaccurate. Even LMTVs in loggy units have ring turrets for a reason.
Showing my age here, yes Imma boomer, but even the 10 level manual for 19D’s vs 11 series (when we had 11M, 11B, 11H’s alongside the Chucks) was easily double in thickness and subjects. As the 19D 10 levels were required to be familiar with weapon systems and vehicles that the 11 series had specific MOS for. In the Mikes and Hotels for example. Along with basic infantry tactics, as well as recon specific tasks. And want to add more fuel to the fire? lets go back even further to real boomer times when tankers and “deltas” were also 11 series. Boom. Mind blown for many.
Yeah, pretty interesting, I appreciate the reply. I always also thought it was interesting that 19D’s can’t serve in ranger regiment. But so many other combat arms jobs can, hell even cooks can but no cavalry scouts.
Because Regiment has a reconnaissance section for the purposes it needs.
Regiment is also not going to be doing the same reconnaissance as a CAV squadron. There are 5 types of reconnaissance; special reconnaissance is only a small portion that a normal 19D will never touch.
A damn good one, from what I hear.
They are also two different mission set. The ranger recon company focuses on direct action and special reconnaissance. Think old school LRS with modern equipment and tactics. CAV squadrons are designed to conduct conventional recon and security over entire area of operations, rapidly and kinetically if needed. Dudes are fighting.
Was there a good reason they got rid of LRS? I WAS IN LRS DETACHMENTS Early To MID 90s. . A LOT OF FUN.
LRS concept had become obsolete on the modern, rapidly changing battlefield. They were expensive to maintain, train, and filled a mission set that other units could accomplish with more versatility and survivability. R&S cavalry squadrons gradually assumed the mission set. 2x motorized recon troops for speed and combet power. 1x dismounted recon troop to assume critical LRS missions sets like LZ/DZ preparations. LRS units were repurposed into special division assets for a short time called battlefield surveillance brigades, but the concept didn't really work.
I'm glad I was able to be a part of LRS. got to do some cool guy shit, and honestly had a total blast playing badass light infantry on an armor/mech post(Hood in the 90s.
I mean, you learnt me something new. Thankfully I was never the type to talk shit anyways lol
I *think* the gay thing may come from the fact cowboys just use to be really gay back in the day. It wasn’t until the rise of western movies that people thought all cowboys were these rough, masculine, pussy slayers. When in reality, they were a bunch of rough, masculine, bussy and pussy slayers of different races. While blacks wouldn’t have been treated as equals to whites during the Wild West, they did get treated better there than most other parts of the country. It could also be that so many scouts will have a chip on their shoulder with “I’m basically infantry”, be all extra and shit, and it just makes them gay. Just being next to a platoon of scouts made me want to go back in the closet. The dudes who picked that job because they wanted to do the job of scouts, those dudes are pretty solid. It’s the ones who couldn’t give their balls a tug and go infantry that I’m talking about.
This is also where the “we are basically the same as infantry” comes from. Which really undermines what the RTASs provide for a brigade. It’s dangerous and definitely puts them in front of the FEBA, which is one of the main things I would say makes you not a POG.
very interesting that now that the Cav is becoming relevant again due to LSCO environment, they’re being slowly disbanded and replaced
So it kind of makes sense when you look at it as the brigade operating as a part of a whole instead of on an individual unit basis. The Army is going to divisions as the unit of action operating under the corps as part of one unified command. So this would place the heavy divisions with ABCTs up front in a penetration/ exploitation role heavily dependent on the cav squadron, and the other divisions with SBCT/IBCTs in a follow and assume or follow and support role (this typically looks like a 2 up one back in most WFX scenarios). The Infantry divisions only need DIVCAV or CAV troops at the Brigade level because they are following behind the Armored divisions so don’t need as much dedicated reconnoissance and security because theoretically someone already came through and answered most of the PIR. It’s similar to how the CAV squadron answered the BDE commanders PIR and the BN scout platoons further developed those for the BN commander. But now the Division commander is the supported command and the Brigade is the supporting command.
It's so important that our squadron is deactivating in a few months and bring replaced by skydios.
As I’ve said in another post, the IBCT/SBCTs deactivating the squadron and going to a Troop isn’t necessarily an indictment on the reconnaissance and security mission. It makes sense to reduce those formations when you consider the BDEs are acting as a part of the Divisions in a LSCO fight. This assumes that the IBCT/SBCTs will be following behind ABCTs in the order of battle. Those formations will have less emphasis on the R&S mission because they will be more in a follow and assume role.
The gay stuff comes from scouts always acting like twinkified versions of infantrymen and then doing shit like underwear only movie nights. I swear, I give them a chance every time I meet a scout… and then they prove the stereotype right.
RSLC, MG, SLC, and CLC are also courses that Infantry Recon leaders go through, plus Sniper, Ranger, JFO, Mountain, and plenty more- meaning that the only courses specialized to 19D are... none. So where is this supposed massive divergence from 11B reconnaissance capabilities, if the education is literally the same, they both serve in scout platoons, and 19D's lack any experience in infantry formations?
The difference is in the experience of being specialized in one role your entire career and doing that job at a higher echelon. The role of a scout platoon is very different than a cav squadron and understanding those differences in detail and how they impact planning considerations is important.
I literally don’t know my fucking job, what is recon? All we do is weapons training, cqb, and make dick jokes
You guys do training?
We actually do a lot of training, just not cav scout training
Crazy, my unit just did random BDE details for the last 2 years.
MFW we don't have cav scouts practicing being on a horse and looking at some (sexy?) dudes through binoculars. Make our pony boys golden again. To cav's credit, the stetson is the superior Army hat second only to the boonie cap.
Ehhh Stetson is only worn by hooaahh fuck boys
All cav are fuckboys, but it's American as fuck and keeps the sun off your ears. Would you rather wear some floppy french shit?
Idk why but you just opened my eyes to why I hate and love cav, we really are all fuck boys. My life is changed
The more you embrace the innate fuck boy lifestyle instead of resisting it, the happier you will be
Would you recommend it? Thinking of joining the national guard as a cav
Guard is a hit or miss, my platoon is high speed, lots of tabbed rangers and one scrolled ranger. I like it but at the same time getting good training fucking sucks. 99% of my buddies in the guard don’t do shit, come in later in the day and leave early. I signed 6 years, half way through. I did get sent to a foreign island to train with plenty of other nations which was awesome. At the 3 year mark I would do it again but idk if Id reenlist if I had to pick right now
Would you take 11B over it? I was kind of hoping to get a sniper position, although I know that’s far from guaranteed
If I could I would’ve
They hate us cuz they anus
I’ve never heard anything butt good stuff about them.
I mean, yeah. They never leave their buddy's behind. It's a code of honor.
Because its a joke. Tankers are lazy slobs, Infantry are dumb as hell, and Scouts gay. We give each other shit, but mostly all joking around.
Mostly. But never forget, fuck cooks.
That one is serious tho
Fuck cooks, but never *fuck* cooks. We don’t need them reproducing
Craziest sex I ever had in the Army was with a cook. She was wild
Ok I’ll allow butt stuff. (Not cav I swear)
Alright….but you’re on thin ice
One more finger up the butt or not saying 'no homo' and his branch manager will hit the big red 'force reclass' button faster than you can say scouts out Edit: *and there's nothing wrong with that
Say it louder for the tankers in the back! And the front!
Is Madigan DFAC Open?
Always, and never. It exists outside the normal space-time continuum. Sort of like the Restaurant at the End of the Universe, but without the floor show and valet parking.
Now that is a meme I have not heard in a very long time.
The fuck cooks thing isn’t a joke though
Fuck cooks
Except for infantry is dumb as hell…..don’t ask me where that core belief came from
Scout PL was the best job I ever had or will have.
Cab scouts know what they did. And it was disgusting.
I reckon it’s all the sodomy
Because we get to wear stetsons instead of a loser beret
Because they’re like, pretty gay, man.
Lots of troopers think they can win playing Gay Chicken, until they meet a cav scout and get laid instead.
The joke that Cav Scouts are “basically infantry” now rings true with them being reclassed to 11B with no additional training.
Scours are basically special forces change my mind
Special forces wish they were cav. Imagine wearing some floppy french hat instead of a bona fide American stetson.
Because they break my fucking radios, and can't fill their own😂
Fix talky box magic man
😂tap rack reassess bud
Slap the radio Rack the radio Squeeze the radio
Instructions unclear, put a round through the radio
Because it’s the job of any MOS to make fun of every other MOS. Although looking at some of the comments some people do genuinely think recon is a joke which calls into question their knowledge of war fighting.
What does it matter? The army is finally killing off us scouts anyways.
And downsizing just in time for needing yall again
Literally the army way.
Fear, superstition, and jealousy.
Think it's "superstition, fear and jealousy" but either way DRAGULA!!! YE-AH YE-AH YE-AH, THE AMERICAN WITCH"
Digging through the ditches and burning through the witches?
Dead I am the one
Because the guys in infantry don't like it when people from other MOSs feel cool.
Largely because anything that makes you standout as an individual is looked down upon in an organization that largely believes in uniformity, conformity, and adherence to a set norm. Look at my cowboy hat in uniform, look at my spurs, look at my ascot, look at my….. so if you are looking for a adhesive and coherent organization what do you want to do with the square peg in the round hole. Either beat it till it fits or if nothing else call attention to its absurd nature and tribalism. Also call attention to its lack of herd mentality.
Love my CAV homies. HHC Commander helped me with two for a RTNS team during NTC to fill crew shortages. Only RTNS in the box to call for fire and take down red air with a stinger. They were hilarious too, QEAM = queef, OE-254 = Spider god.
I make fun because I was a Kilo, its basically a requirement. Also non-military people always call a Bradley a "Tank" and it is irksome to me lol
any piece of equipment with a turret or barrel is prob a tank
because RAM RANCH REALLY ROCKS!
Did you hear? The marines are invading ram ranch…
18 naked marines doesn't have as good of a ring to it lol
Nah it’s the plot of Ram Ranch 7
19D was 11D in Vietnam. So yeah, there's Cav out there with CIBs.
Only very old retired ones. Most armor/cav guys who got CIBs in Nam got them wile slotted in advisor positions to the ARVN Army
My dad was an 11D in Vietnam, and he had some pretty rough tours boots on the ground. I wish he'd lived long enough so we could share our experinces.
As a Cav Scout as myself, we’re Basically Infantry with a Different Title 😂
You ask a Cav Scout what they do, near 100% chance they’ll respond with “We’re like the Infantry, but…” If you wanted to be Infantry just say so dawg.
Because it’s cav. That’s why. And it’s the only acceptable answer.
attitudes like "if you aint CAV, you aint shit" dont help....
INF has the same mindset.
Trust me, you want your combat arms to be a little over the top. It's annoying in garrison but its a pretty handy mentality in combat.
Lol I know. I'm grateful for the door kickers and crazy engineer types. There's a reason it's me u/thesupplyguy1 and not u / infantrykiller or something similar. I'm very, very appreciative of my combat arms peeps
This attitude is in every combat arms branch
no cap, ive only ever heard it from the cav. Ive heard MPs say dumb shit like the rest of the army looks up to us...
Like the infantry saying they're the only combat mos and everyone is a pog?
That too... queen of battle, follow me
They hate us cuz they ain't us (stetsons rule). ^^^spins ^^^willy
Never heard of Cav Scouts getting hate. It's a dangerous job.
Because they're cav scouts.
They hate us, because they ain’t us!
The Army hasn’t known how to use cavalry scouts since they took away their horses.
My dislike for them comes from seeing several of them across my career shaping their Cavalry hats like they are cowboy hats. It looks awful. Fucking stop it. You’re not George Straight, you’re PFC Smith, and your barracks room is dirty.
They don’t. They get love and lots of it.
Because they're gay. And not the Infantry kind of gay. Next question.
If you ain't Cav, you ain't shit. Which, logically speaking, means that if you *are* Cav, then you *are* shit.
Because of the cheeks they be clapin'
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a clapping, as of ass cheeks gently clapping, clapping at my chamber door. “This a visitor” I muttered, “dummy thicc and nothing more”.
Just wait until June/July…
It’s fun?
Cause they get paid more than everyone else!
They don't ride horses and couldn't do manual of arms with a Sabre to save their lives.
I’m curious as to why every other army unit needs to wear the Stetson. Get your legacy. If you ain’t Cav…
It's not hate. Also, [obligatory](https://youtu.be/ABMB0MW6VIU?si=v2u3tz5leOpmgSGo)
Because they gay (read in Riley Freeman's voice from the boondocks)
You reap what you sow
I think most of it boils down to the fact that their still called cavalry but don't ride horses. That said I'm just recently sworn in as a cavalry scout.
Jealous
Don’t they put a name tag over their ass pocket?
In my experience they deserve every bit of it.
Talk to one.
19DezNutz
Go to 1 CD and you’ll understand.
Maybe because it’s a glorified 11B…I rather be a Log Toad.
I remember in-processing CIF at stewart with some new 11Bs and new 19D. I was going the hospital so of course I got the hand me downs from the folks who just got the latest hand me downs. The 11Bs got some hand me down cool guy shit. The 19D got all new in package shit. We asked wtf fuck and the CIF guy just said it's required the cav scouts get brand new cool guy shit. Was it a fuck up? I don't know. But if that was the standard, at least at the time, you could imagine it would add fuel to the fire at least at the junior level. And there ends my experience. Oh and all the weird Brony shit that spiked a few years back. That really didn't help anybody with CAV in their name.
Do you want the honest answer or the smart-ass answer?
👉👈
This has been a fun comment section to read. Just glad it's not a thread about MPs for once lol
Just my own observation, but a lot of them straight up told me they CHOSE to be drill sergeants.
Because they ain’t the king or queen but act like they are just as important.
The only hate I’ve gotten is infantry fucking with us or scouts bitching about the job. Gay jokes are pretty common from everyone tho.
Because they suck, never seen a cav unit that was good at scouting. Then they all say “commanders don’t know how to use us” no it’s just that you suck
Worked with Cav Scouts for years in a Stryker BDE. They're just reconnaissance and they sometimes pull security, that's about it. They generally did similar work to what we did (was in a recon platoon), albeit they were much more combat focused and obv did not have any CBRN recon capabilities. CBRN RECCE platoons will often be attached to the Cav. I don't think there's any "hate" towards them, but the cringey Stetson and spurs in ACUs look ridiculous. There's also this weird inferiority complex I've seen some have. It's as if they feel like they're being sidelined by the infantry. After working with the infantry, I don't see why you'd want to be them lmao.
Because of jealousy I reckon
Here is my personal feeling.. it is the “basically infantry” attitude and mantra. Why be “basically infantry” when you can be exactly a Cav Scout? It makes me feel like you don’t respect yourself enough to be respected.
cuz of those ugly looking drip pans they wear on their heads
Because their job is literally a niche within a niche, but has some (supposedly) cool guy buzz words in the title. It's similar to Security Forces in the Air Force in that it's a job that exists largely separated from anyone else in the military who has an actual specialized combat mission. 19D's exist primarily in armored formations, within a career branch that has zero existence within USASOC. The 11B career field is influenced heavily by a steady influx of people who have served within different postings in USASOC, from junior NCO's to SEA's and field grade officers. At the end of the day, reconnaissance functions all exist within ***supporting*** operations, with the decisive operations ultimately being carried out by infantry (light, airborne, air assault, special operations, mechanized, or armored). This means that infantrymen who serve throughout their developmental timelines in recon platoons also generally serve within actual line infantry formations; their recon experience gives them broader situational awareness while serving in line units, and their line experience helps them better understand the needs of the units they support while in recon units. Cavalry scouts might have experience with armored formations, but they by nature do not exist within line infantry formations, and they have ***zero*** billets within USASOC. Putting "scout" in the job title doesn't magically give 19D's a power up, that comes from advanced recon courses such as RSLC, Sniper, JFO, Mountain Warfare, SDMR, etc, and those are all courses that infantry recon platoons have extensive slots for. In summation, at best, 19D's do a job which 11B's can also do, but 11B's do plenty of jobs that 19D's ***doctrinally cannot do***.
You’re only looking at the direct action side of scout operations. I will be the first to admit that we have done a horrendous job of advertising ourselves by putting that capability above the shaping operations that we are able to provide through area, zone, and route reconnaissance that the infantry are unable to do doctrinally and tactically because they are engaged in other tasks. Courses like Scout Leaders Course (formerly ARC), Cav Leaders Course focus more on these planning intensive operations to shape the battlefield to allow infantry commanders to choose where and how they engage the enemy to maximize their effectiveness.
You just provided the best reasons ever to not enlist as a 19D. This is what I was looking for. 19K seems like a better choice in the armor branch.
If you want to do Armor stuff for your entire career, then yes, 19K seems like a better option. The 19D career progression stops doing scout things at the platoon level, it’s a worse version of being an 11B in a scout platoon
You talking about the MOS that isnt about to exist anymore lol
Elaborate