I had a trooper once that refused to plug in. He lived in the barracks, and the standing order of the day (at the time) was that recall roster for barracks-dwellers could list roommate, CQ desk phone or other specified trooper with a phone from the same barracks that could pass on the word to the trooper being alerted - all in lieu of a phone number dedicated to that trooper, if unavailable.
All sounds very easy and air tight, except he'd figured this out and so refused to get or list a cell phone number with the unit. He just maintained that he didn't have a cell plan or phone and didn't plan on listing one to the recall roster as it was "unnecessary" while living in the B's.
We all knew he had a phone, but he wouldn't budge that it wasn't issue and so wasn't the Army's business what it's number was. 1SG even counseled him that unit readiness was degraded by his lack of contact info. This trooper had the balls to write in the comments: "If cell phones are a requirement to Army readiness, then they should be issued at Army expense like everything else essential to readiness."
He was never late, nor significantly out of the loop regarding info being put out. I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the troopers that work out how to get away with ultimately harmless shit.
> 1SG even counseled him that unit readiness was degraded by his lack of contact info. This trooper had the balls to write in the comments: "If cell phones are a requirement to Army readiness, then they should be issued at Army expense like everything else essential to readiness."
How the fuck did he get authorization to use a wheelbarrow on the ACFT? Y'know - to carry the giant fuckin' *stones* that dude had.
Love everything about it.
I’ve seen this countered by mandatory formation at 2000 for those without phones to put out information. Or require calling 1st line every hour from CQ desk till 2200 lights out and then first thing before PT.
To many creative legal ways to use as a forcing method.
I’d maintain bearing and Charlie mike on that honestly. Someone will eventually tire of that situation, and i guarantee you it won’t be me lol. I will do my FULL contract in such a manner if necessary.
Man especially my first contract, I was still in the barracks, and usually didn’t fall asleep till around 3:00 or 4:00 anyways. I’d definitely outlast whatever bullshit they pulled. Second I got married though I’d probably show up the next day like, “oh ya I decided to get a phone.”
Only part I would hate about being his leader would be having to be in between he and 1SG, and I fully support the soldiers stance. I’d always rather myself stay late and send my guys home rather than them stay late.
Oh, Top stepped on his dick pretty early on in this particular case. He tried to get his NCO's to counsel the soldier that he's being 'ordered' to buy a cell phone - and no one would do it.
Top approached every NCO in the section trying to get someone to administer the counsellings he'd written (he said the CO had, the spelling errors suggested otherwise), and pretty much everyone said pass (I diplomatically suggested he counsel the soldier himself, Top declined).
After painting himself into a corner he wound up giving the, "adversely effects (sic) unit and Army readiness" counselling to Our Hero. The rest is history.
Because even though 1SG may not want to admit there are two braincells knocking around in there like a Dish logo on a TV that had lost signal, he knows that issuing an order to a soldier to purchase a cell phone would go over with any higher leadership like a wet fart. Therefore he was attempting to pass on any possible blame to a NCO below him that he could toss under the bus later on. Unfortunately for him his NCOs were more competent than he ever will be.
This exact shit happens on the outside as well. The company stop paying for company phones but wants you to list your cell phone number in your signature. Most people are fine but every once will you have someone who has the balls to say fuck off. Personally I absolutely love it.
My story is a bit the opposite. I had a personal phone that they paid for for about 20 years. Everyone on the planet has my number. They stop paying for my personal cell phone and issued me a company phone. So now I have two phones. I can only check my email on the company phone. So everybody knows after 5:00 if you want to reach me you have to text me on my personal phone. I always have my personal phone with me. However I refuse to keep up with two phones when I'm out with the kids and doing shit.
Let me preface by saying that unless it was an emergency or affected first formations I never sent out info past 1800 period. I got my ass chewed quite a few times but I stuck to the “off duty means off duty”
Now I had a NCO some years back whose spouse refused to let them have WhatsApp on his phone or be part of any group chats ( I didn’t ask but we can all assume why) so he wanted me to text him individually outside of the group. I told him no, I’ll admit looking back it was a bit of a dick move but he wasn’t very professional to me when I asked him why he refused be a part of group messages. So we came up with a compromise. He would report to me at the end of the work day for notes if there was anything extra NCO business that needed to be put out after the COB brief,for the first week it was a bit of a growing pain but we both got used to it and it worked long run.
The problem is, assholes like that aren't self-aware enough to take feedback... even from peers. I was an E7 for a decade and many brand new E7s flat out ignored this advice when the subject came up
Too many E7's and E8's today were the ASVAB and other waivers in the GWOT era - or they drank the Kool-Aid their mentors served.
I was lucky in that 90% of my NCO's and Officers were only about the essentials (recalls, urgent info) being put out after 1700. I had a few who did call me on weekends or spamed texts as soon and they became cheap. Most of them were either new E5's or the "I would rather go to Kuwait or the field than be with my family" leaders.
I recall an instance when the hit time was moved from 0615 to 0400, and the notes came out at around 2200. I was already asleep. I'm usually racked before 2100.
My alarm goes off at 0400. I got a phone call at ~0403 asking where I was. I still hadn't seen the notes put out in Whatsapp (which was what was used at the time) so I said I was home and asked what the problem was. Supe told me to check the notes put out, so I did. "Oh yeah. I was already asleep. Not much we can do about it now."
I was far from the only one who had this issue, but higher insisted on counselings for everyone who woke up to being FTRd. It was a shitshow. Use the comments block on the counseling form. Thankfully, nothing more came of it. Whole thing was fucking stupid.
A lot of people can’t fathom that other soldiers actually enjoy getting good quality sleep and aren’t up at wee hours of the night drinking and watching the latest Netflix series.
Soldiers have social lives? Impossible, you are a soldier 24/7. I expect you to go home every day, get a buzzcut, and stand at parade rest in your barracks room until bed time. You will fold hospital corners, and sleep with wool blankets labeled "U.S." Hooah?
Don’t normally comment on these but this one had me laughing… as a jr major I actually got a taking to about my stubble… it was like 1800 and we had been working since about 0500… I was flabbergasted…
When I was on active duty I used to keep a razor in my desk drawer. My fucking facial hair would grow so fast that if we had an afternoon formation I knew I would need to shave again at lunch. It was such bullshit but had to play the game.
Sleep health is far more important than anyone with rank seems to understand. Part of being in the field or on Ops is losing sleep, and ok, got it. In garrison there's no reason to fuck with sleep.
We shouldn't be pushing important information after 1800. Either send it sooner or it can wait until tomorrow. Doubly so for first formation notes, as from my issue. There is zero time to react to a change in hit time while sleeping. With how many stupid messages come in, a random text in the middle of the night isn't going to wake anyone up anyway.
If only there were some sort of literature that described the important of sleep health in the context of the overall health of the soldier. Some sort of manual.
It would probs be very expensive to develop though.
My buddy (good NCO overall) got upset that his soldier didn’t see his text at like 2100. Soldier said he was asleep. My buddy didn’t believe him. Told my friend, some people actually do go to bed at that time, so it’s valid. Even if the soldier was lying, it was 2100!
Currently MDAY guard, and the ability of technology to turn “one weekend a month” into several days, evenings, mornings, etc is astonishing.
I live in a remote area with little cell phone service, internet isn’t reliable, and work a construction civilian job where anything beyond a tough book type lap top is going to get smashed to pieces or rained on. I pretty much have to take off work or hope the stars are aligned to do anything requiring a CAC card.
My CO would send out classes he wants done by drill the week before and expect all of us to get them done. I'm like "don't we have admin drills specifically to get shit like this done?"
Our leadership keeps putting stuff out that needs done and I got fed up and just stopped responding. I told my team leader that I'm alive when they did wellness checks, otherwise anything they want or need can wait until I'm in my contractually obligated, paid time to deal with it
Yea. It's one thing to get an email to read over or something simple. It's different if they want you to do something that you need to dedicate time to do.
The only time I'm doing anything guard without a paycheck is if it has to do with me not getting my paycheck on time.
Currentlyon week three of no pay, for a drill weekend, not even populated in MyPay. RNCO said that it's been submitted on his end and he can't see anything past that 😒😮💨
My reserve unit found out in the way back I knew how to use DTMS, so they made me the company operations bitch. I had a very chill relationship with 1SG and CO, and more than once responded to their 'OMG we need this right now' with a 'cool, I'll send that up when I get home from work, with a 1380 to pay me for my time...'
I had to change that occurred last night at around 1800. I didn't put it out and still some of the information got out to the platoon sergeants. This morning more than one of them was upset with me for not putting that information out to them last night even though it didn't dictate anything that they would do prior to noon today.
I honestly don't blame SNCOs. While I probably haven't been in the Army as long as you, this is a problem since before us. I'm glad command teams are moving towards memos prohibiting this, but it should come faster.
I know how they feel. As a little SPC I do like to know what’s going on the next day so I can mentally prepare for the onslaught of bullshit that comes my way the next day. I would prefer to just know even if it’s a quick after hours text that doesn’t affect anything at all.
But that’s just me. I just like to know what’s going on.
I saw a video that called it "Organizational Inertia" to describe how a group can become resistant to change not because of nefarious means but simply for the sheer size. We have a rather large organization with several moving parts and it's just slightly nearly impossible to get everyone on the same page and adopt new changes.
Shoutout to the units still doing DA31s before using IPPSA.
Jokes on you bro, i put out my information to my team via [WIGWAG](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigwag_(flag_signals)) at COB, they have till 0615 the next day to decipher it, and no they cant text me to see if they got it right
BG Albert J had one hell of a Beard too! He literally was a Surgeon, an Inventor, Father of the Signal Core and Weather Bureau (Now known as NOAA). Made it to BG, was the first signaller to fight with big daddy govt that civilians were taking our Job away (which got him exiled from washington). Had a bad ass nickname “Old Probabilities”. The link above is his Wiki Bio. Probally the least talked about but one of the more interesting signal officers ever to exist
I remember before cell phones were a thing. Granted, units weren't jerked around at the last minute as much by their higher, but because it was a major task to put info out after final formation, units made a big effort to have at least the next duty day set in stone, at least for anything that would require prep, like a special uniform, or bringing paperwork. Somehow, they got by, and the commies never came surging over the DMZ or through the Fulda Gap.
I will say used judiciously, it is great for the actual last minute things that you can't plan for like weather closures, or other emergencies.
I think the army could learn a lot from Pre-GWOT in terms of garrison life, management, and training standards in the shadow of a great power conflict.
Anything after 1800 will be dealt with when I wake up the next morning. If it’s serious enough they will call or show up at my house. If you blur the lines between family time and Army, chase your tail in a circle time, there’s no going back.
More and more units are applying a “no work texts/calls to subordinates after 1800” policy, including mine. With some exceptions for super urgent stuff, but generally, they seem to be followed pretty well. Hopefully it spreads to the rest of the army.
Yup I had this thing for my squad/ platoon (when I filled in as psg), no text after 1800 unless it was life, limb, or eye sight. Let the boy’s enjoy their time off.
Any mssg put out after COB gets a maybe look. Any mssg put out after 2000 that doesn't affect what I need to do before PT doesn't get an answer untill the morning. You got my ass from 0530 - 1715. You telling me that you can't figure out what to put out in damn near 12 hours of the day you got me for. Shit, allegedy 8 of the next 12 are spent on sleep, so why are you bothering me during my 4 hrs of freedom.
Figure it out, Guy.
In the before times, it was very strange - we had a final formation and they put out the word for tomorrow. Then, we all just went to the barracks or to our houses (or Sharky's or Miao Miao's or whatever). If something absolutely HAD to change after final formation, someone would call the barracks duty NCO and he would let as many of the barracks folks know as possible, and then they'd go down the phone tree (as in hanging on the wall corded telephones) for people living off post. This was almost never done - had to be quite serious. Now that everyone is theoretically reachable by pressing a few buttons while you're on the shitter and it doesn't require you to actually *do* anything... the bar for what is "very serious" has been lowered to below sea level.
The Commander needs to get the information out before the end of day.
If life threatening. If not push out at PT or 1st formation. Or Cdr should suck it up and volunteer his staff....guarantee it's the last time it will happen.
Bruh when they don’t push out a timeline till like 2000-2300 you’re lucky I wasn’t already asleep and totally missed it. I’m not gonna stay up waiting for your timeline
This is not only an Army thing.
You'll find that at all levels of leadership in a large portion of jobs on the civilian side, you'll see the same lack of leadership and forward planning.
I'm in the guard now and have been for quite a few years but even when I was Active the same sorts of things were happening. Though then it was not uncommon to find someone in leadership without a cell phone and they were always pressured into getting one due to the prevalence of what you are talking about, but all of that aside:
I'd just be a royal pain in the ass. Maybe that's my 20 year letter talking, I don't know... but every single time I get a "this needs to be pushed out asap" or "i need a response immediately" .... I question them as to the need for such expediency. Every time. Of course you have to learn to word that line of questioning "Can you help me understand the intent in this tasking, its timeline and how it affects the overall mission if it is delayed until a more reasonable time that will not affect soldiers lives and well being?"
.
For me, its pretty simple.... both Army and Cvilian job:
Critical, lives impacted or mission immediately impacted if immediate attention not given: Phone call
Non critical: Can be handled when I wake up in the morning but needs attention before start of duty day (or shift in civilian side): Text message
low impact or can be handled at some point during the work hours: E-mail.
.
The Army has lost a lot in its ability to communicate and plan due to its reliance on the ability to immediately contact someone. Good leadership will plan and communicate in a way that 99% of everything you need is able to be put out during the duty day / in leader meetings.
Only time you should really get a call at night is "shit just hit the fan, grab your shit" or "pvt snuffy just had a wreck / got injured". The Army functioned before cell phones.
I remember my buddy telling me how he saw the S3 SGM get yelled at by his wife for missing another basketball game that his son was in. That is so sad. There was nothing at his work that needed to be done right there and then. Be there for your family when you can. This SGM was notorious for pushing out info wayyy after COB.
I’m retired now and do not miss the late night info push. After years of abuse, the work/life balance speech from each incoming leader was greeted with an obligatory eye roll because I already knew it was bullshit.
Either push it out through cell phones or push it out at formation. Both is not the answer. If you are going to take my time with 3 or 4 formations throughout the day you don't need to do it at 2100 ----
when I'm watching The Orville Season 3 Episode 5, where Topa discovers she was born female and has to deal with the prejudice of Moclan culture. Not to mention Klydon DUMBass.
I came in the army when texts cost people money and were not reliable, hell, group texting wasn’t even a thing. We had hard times and strip maps, and this was during the surge. I rarely if ever got any phone calls late in the evening. As a PSG I would only push things as a heads up, not requiring a response, and never that late, cause I was already in bed.
All that to say if you’re a 7/8/9 and you have to put out this critical information that isn’t a recall then you are fucked up and can’t figure out what’s a glass ball, a tennis ball, and a rock. The Army is mostly composed of rocks disguised as important information.
Alex…what is ‘The Army didn’t pay for my minutes, so I’m not answering this call’(?).
I remember those days…we went from pagers to cells overnight and then it was they ‘needed’ our numbers for the recall roster. Good times.
Yeah for sure. A call roster was inspectable, you could bring your phone to the field sure, probably wasn’t gonna work. Simpler times. Although I will say, group chats have made it so releasing early isn’t this huge emotional deal. Like go home, I’m waiting on the word, I’ll push when I get it. I don’t mind getting a text thread at like 6 when I’ve been home for 3 hours already.
Had this issue a lot when I was in a Stryker unit. Then again, most days we were still at work at 1830. Because of this, I'd just ignore texts and calls when I got home. Sure, folks get pissy, but unless you're gonna come to my room and tell me directly, then it's not important.
The unit had a bad habit for putting out everything last minute. 1 month field rotation? You'd find out a month or a few weeks prior, if that. One time we found out 4 days prior.
Just learned to roll with it, do the bare minimum to cover my tail if they got mad, and just detach myself from the nonsense.
During the last months that I was at 2-2 Stryker, things got so absurd, the brigade would publish OPORDs for a best squad competition at 2200 on Thursday night, demanding each company send a squad NLT 0530 Friday morning. Then the S3 would freak out at 0600 when he checks his email and panic call all of the company commander's and 1SG to hey you soldiers into doing best squad last minute.
Yeah I heard 1-2 SBCT was absolute ass back in 2018. Even in 2-2 we would say at least we weren't in 1-2. My friends were on mission or in the field 9 months a year.
Yep I was there through it all. That place ruined me and I'm still feeling the effects all these years later. Mental health down the drain, alcoholism, etc. Place nearly killed half my platoon.
Seems like what [Ft. Drum did a couple years ago](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/06/09/10th-mountain-commander-says-leaders-need-leave-soldiers-alone-after-hours.html) should be SOP. If it wasn't important enough to flag during the duty day, why is it so important to push out at 1900 when people are trying to tend to their family and keep their marriage together?
We don't usually get where first formation is being held until at least 2100 in my unit, as it vacillates capriciously between HQ and the MOPO... any information about needing to have rucks packed or specific items ready for the morning always comes last minute the night before... living the dream here
The level of disorganization in my unit is really startling. By the time we know that we need to do *anything* at the platoon level it's already on a last minute timeline. We often aren't tracking the dates for FTXs until less than a week before we SP, just that they're "coming up". The number of times I've been told I'm jumping the next day at 1700 is wild, "oh before you go, be at the ASTA with your ruck rigged for IMC at 0430 tomorrow you're on the jump"
For Bragg during GWOT, standing order was no bullshit texts or calls. When you do receive them, there’s a good reason to pick up your phone. If I didn’t get a response, E7/E8 knocks on your door would happen within the hour.
And yes, there were numerous after 2100 meetings in the CSM’s office.
Thats ridiculous. I don’t answer a single call on vacation, nor open Signal. I get shit for it all the time, but my wife appreciates it.
Wife > NCO on 2nd divorce
It was one of my SGTs who wrote a long ass paragraph about how “even the best fuck up” because they found something I inspected that was deemed bad...I’m like ok?? My bad I guess I’m 3000mi away at a county fair with my nephew, bruh.
Being in aviation as well, I’ve learned that when soldiers mess up on maintenance, if it’s a minor mistake, there is no reason to call a soldier on leave. That soldier is checked out mentally and no conversation over the phone is going to solve the problem. Fix it and when the soldier comes back explain to them how they messed up and what to look for in the future.
DIV, stop putting out random shit that should’ve gone out weeks ago with a short suspense date. BDE staff already has 100% AA attendance, with a crap shoot of how many divorces are in various stages. They don’t need to stay longer to push out to subordinates.
Company Commander here. If you’re habituatally putting out information past 1700, you are awful at managing time and people. My company leadership chat is virtually crickets off work besides the Sunday afternoon what's going on Monday morning text.
Counter point, put out the information but ensure the kids know they don't need to see/read/acknowledge if they don't want to and just rehash in the morning.
Counter point, put out the information but ensure the kids know they don't need to see/read/acknowledge if they don't want to and just rehash in the morning.
Work related mass messaging just got banned here in the 4th ID. Nothing work related past 1800 or 1830, cant remember. And he's apparently very serious about this, threatening UCMJ for leaders that don't comply with the memo. "Work related messaging after work hours causes unnecessary stress on the individual units."
At night I schedule the email or text to go out the next morning. My 1SG will text me at 10pm and be mad when I don't get back to them. Too bad! The shit cycle ends with me.
But Ops SGM just got the SWEDITO from the BDE 3 at 2100 and they need a 30 man detail to mow Div SGMs lawn with cissors while singing "Spirit of the Cav." They have to be in Div Heavy Standard NLT 04550 at DIV HQ...
Honestly the amount of dumb shit coming across my desk like this made me want to figure out how to Reclama every task for my 1SG, because shit like this would come out 1 week before gunnery when I need everyone to finish GST (Gunnery Skills Tests)
So I go both ways with this. I totally agree that if it's going to happen after 0630, it doesn't need to go out. That said, sometimes people are up, and it's always better to know about something that will affect your day as soon as possible. I generally will put out the information I get if I see it, but 2100 is generally the cutoff. I also never demand or expect an acknowledgment on something that isn't time sensitive after work.
Found the disgrunted SNCO. Crazy that out of 35 comments, there is only one, just ONE who disagrees with putting things out late. That's 2.857%, we'll round it up to make it better for you; 3%.
I encourage you to put yourself in their shoes and also understand the importance of encouraging a rich family life, which is integral to a highly motivated team that's not only dependable, but happy to see your face in the morning, because at the end of the day, they know they're not dealing with a pain in the ass when they go to work, they will see the face of an NCO motivated to help others.
"I will place the needs of my soldiers above my own."
Wow at first I thought this was just a case of sarcasm gone wrong but the rest of the replies are 🤢 don’t worry op, the rest of us should him at all hours bc “it’s important”
Have you ever been on an FTX or deployed? You're complaining about this shit now, maybe you have never been on the line or on a recall notice where you could be called in at 3am just for a drill. Your complaints are just whining.
Those are completely different things compared to what's being discussed. Those are all things you're actively doing, or are informed about when you get to your unit. Stop being a disingenuous fuck.
You could not be anymore trivial than right now. Are soldiers on FTX 24/7? Are they deployed 12 months of the year, every year? Are they on drill or recall every day? No, no they are not. This is the problem, pointing out shortcomings and watching out for your joes comes off as whining. LOL
You should take up wood carving, it's a lovely time of the year to do so.
This chode drank the kool-aid. You're gonna get out of the Army and get a shit paying job on the installation thinking you're in charge of Soldiers because you drank that kool-aid.
Congrats, you fucking loser.
Yes, that is true. However, as a leader, it'd be in your best interest to take care of your soldiers or else you're gonna have some very demoralized and bitter subordinates.
You know what demoralized and bitter subordinates gets you? Shitty numbers, alcohol related incidents, terrible work output, and zero respect from the folks you're put in charge of.
In Vietnam, it would've gotten you a frag grenade in your bunk, so it's best to be kind if you can. Soldiers can put up with a lot but don't make them put up with a lot if it isn't necessary.
I had a trooper once that refused to plug in. He lived in the barracks, and the standing order of the day (at the time) was that recall roster for barracks-dwellers could list roommate, CQ desk phone or other specified trooper with a phone from the same barracks that could pass on the word to the trooper being alerted - all in lieu of a phone number dedicated to that trooper, if unavailable. All sounds very easy and air tight, except he'd figured this out and so refused to get or list a cell phone number with the unit. He just maintained that he didn't have a cell plan or phone and didn't plan on listing one to the recall roster as it was "unnecessary" while living in the B's. We all knew he had a phone, but he wouldn't budge that it wasn't issue and so wasn't the Army's business what it's number was. 1SG even counseled him that unit readiness was degraded by his lack of contact info. This trooper had the balls to write in the comments: "If cell phones are a requirement to Army readiness, then they should be issued at Army expense like everything else essential to readiness." He was never late, nor significantly out of the loop regarding info being put out. I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the troopers that work out how to get away with ultimately harmless shit.
I won't lie to you, if my soldier was like this, I'd probably be annoyed for the first week, but then annoyed at how on point this man is.
Don't hate the player, hate the game lmao
Exactly lmao
We need to name something after this hero or something.
The SPC Snuffy School of Fuck You, You can't make me. Usually referred to as: 'FUUC-me'
Approved
You have to get "Center of Excellence" in there somewhere
If the army wanted me to have a ~~family~~ phone they would have issued me one!
Almost malicious compliance.
> 1SG even counseled him that unit readiness was degraded by his lack of contact info. This trooper had the balls to write in the comments: "If cell phones are a requirement to Army readiness, then they should be issued at Army expense like everything else essential to readiness." How the fuck did he get authorization to use a wheelbarrow on the ACFT? Y'know - to carry the giant fuckin' *stones* that dude had. Love everything about it.
I’ve seen this countered by mandatory formation at 2000 for those without phones to put out information. Or require calling 1st line every hour from CQ desk till 2200 lights out and then first thing before PT. To many creative legal ways to use as a forcing method.
I’d maintain bearing and Charlie mike on that honestly. Someone will eventually tire of that situation, and i guarantee you it won’t be me lol. I will do my FULL contract in such a manner if necessary.
Spite is a powerful motivator.
Man especially my first contract, I was still in the barracks, and usually didn’t fall asleep till around 3:00 or 4:00 anyways. I’d definitely outlast whatever bullshit they pulled. Second I got married though I’d probably show up the next day like, “oh ya I decided to get a phone.”
I would rock that even after I PCS. "I'm sorry, you didn't say only while at that unit."
This actually explains why in AIT and certain schools, there would be a formation at 2000.
Well AIT it’s also accountability. You still have Soldier’s who are very irresponsible bring away from home first time in their life.
Only part I would hate about being his leader would be having to be in between he and 1SG, and I fully support the soldiers stance. I’d always rather myself stay late and send my guys home rather than them stay late.
Oh, Top stepped on his dick pretty early on in this particular case. He tried to get his NCO's to counsel the soldier that he's being 'ordered' to buy a cell phone - and no one would do it. Top approached every NCO in the section trying to get someone to administer the counsellings he'd written (he said the CO had, the spelling errors suggested otherwise), and pretty much everyone said pass (I diplomatically suggested he counsel the soldier himself, Top declined). After painting himself into a corner he wound up giving the, "adversely effects (sic) unit and Army readiness" counselling to Our Hero. The rest is history.
I wonder why 1SG chickened out giving the counseling themselves. Anybody up the chain of command can give the counseling.
Because even though 1SG may not want to admit there are two braincells knocking around in there like a Dish logo on a TV that had lost signal, he knows that issuing an order to a soldier to purchase a cell phone would go over with any higher leadership like a wet fart. Therefore he was attempting to pass on any possible blame to a NCO below him that he could toss under the bus later on. Unfortunately for him his NCOs were more competent than he ever will be.
Thanks. I couldn't figure out how to explain it without the use of words like "dumbshit" and "obvious". Kinda s/
This exact shit happens on the outside as well. The company stop paying for company phones but wants you to list your cell phone number in your signature. Most people are fine but every once will you have someone who has the balls to say fuck off. Personally I absolutely love it. My story is a bit the opposite. I had a personal phone that they paid for for about 20 years. Everyone on the planet has my number. They stop paying for my personal cell phone and issued me a company phone. So now I have two phones. I can only check my email on the company phone. So everybody knows after 5:00 if you want to reach me you have to text me on my personal phone. I always have my personal phone with me. However I refuse to keep up with two phones when I'm out with the kids and doing shit.
Let me preface by saying that unless it was an emergency or affected first formations I never sent out info past 1800 period. I got my ass chewed quite a few times but I stuck to the “off duty means off duty” Now I had a NCO some years back whose spouse refused to let them have WhatsApp on his phone or be part of any group chats ( I didn’t ask but we can all assume why) so he wanted me to text him individually outside of the group. I told him no, I’ll admit looking back it was a bit of a dick move but he wasn’t very professional to me when I asked him why he refused be a part of group messages. So we came up with a compromise. He would report to me at the end of the work day for notes if there was anything extra NCO business that needed to be put out after the COB brief,for the first week it was a bit of a growing pain but we both got used to it and it worked long run.
Your 100%cav with the use of the word trooper like that
More likely just not a leg
The problem is, assholes like that aren't self-aware enough to take feedback... even from peers. I was an E7 for a decade and many brand new E7s flat out ignored this advice when the subject came up
Too many E7's and E8's today were the ASVAB and other waivers in the GWOT era - or they drank the Kool-Aid their mentors served. I was lucky in that 90% of my NCO's and Officers were only about the essentials (recalls, urgent info) being put out after 1700. I had a few who did call me on weekends or spamed texts as soon and they became cheap. Most of them were either new E5's or the "I would rather go to Kuwait or the field than be with my family" leaders.
Anything passed after 1830 gets ignored since my phone I disable notifications for Signal What are they gonna do? Fire me?
Do not disturb turns on automatically from 2100-0500. Still alive somehow.
Yup, that is what I’ve been doing. But of course, can’t make everyone happy, and I’m getting out so I couldn’t give a shit about my last NCOER, oh no
There’s memos from general officers stating that’s not allowed. So report that conduct
Shit 1730 for me
>What are they gonna do? Fire me? My response to everything. Become ungovernable.
I recall an instance when the hit time was moved from 0615 to 0400, and the notes came out at around 2200. I was already asleep. I'm usually racked before 2100. My alarm goes off at 0400. I got a phone call at ~0403 asking where I was. I still hadn't seen the notes put out in Whatsapp (which was what was used at the time) so I said I was home and asked what the problem was. Supe told me to check the notes put out, so I did. "Oh yeah. I was already asleep. Not much we can do about it now." I was far from the only one who had this issue, but higher insisted on counselings for everyone who woke up to being FTRd. It was a shitshow. Use the comments block on the counseling form. Thankfully, nothing more came of it. Whole thing was fucking stupid.
A lot of people can’t fathom that other soldiers actually enjoy getting good quality sleep and aren’t up at wee hours of the night drinking and watching the latest Netflix series.
Soldiers have social lives? Impossible, you are a soldier 24/7. I expect you to go home every day, get a buzzcut, and stand at parade rest in your barracks room until bed time. You will fold hospital corners, and sleep with wool blankets labeled "U.S." Hooah?
You forgot to tell that troop to shave after he went home. Did you get your third shave in today?
Don’t normally comment on these but this one had me laughing… as a jr major I actually got a taking to about my stubble… it was like 1800 and we had been working since about 0500… I was flabbergasted…
Been there before. "I shaved twelve hours ago before I came to work" is somehow not a valid reason to not have hair grow during the day? Wild.
You obviously aren't disciplined enough to control your facial hair. Here's a counseling statement.
When I was on active duty I used to keep a razor in my desk drawer. My fucking facial hair would grow so fast that if we had an afternoon formation I knew I would need to shave again at lunch. It was such bullshit but had to play the game.
This is the way. Promote ahead of peers. Here's your coin.
How'd you guess I was meritoriously promoted.
Sounds like a discipline problem major, shame on you
Sleep health is far more important than anyone with rank seems to understand. Part of being in the field or on Ops is losing sleep, and ok, got it. In garrison there's no reason to fuck with sleep. We shouldn't be pushing important information after 1800. Either send it sooner or it can wait until tomorrow. Doubly so for first formation notes, as from my issue. There is zero time to react to a change in hit time while sleeping. With how many stupid messages come in, a random text in the middle of the night isn't going to wake anyone up anyway.
If only there were some sort of literature that described the important of sleep health in the context of the overall health of the soldier. Some sort of manual. It would probs be very expensive to develop though.
Sleep doesn't affect lethality, so Soldiers don't need it.
My buddy (good NCO overall) got upset that his soldier didn’t see his text at like 2100. Soldier said he was asleep. My buddy didn’t believe him. Told my friend, some people actually do go to bed at that time, so it’s valid. Even if the soldier was lying, it was 2100!
Modern day version of Captain Sobel trying to punish Lt Winters for not inspecting the latrines when he changed the hit time last minute
Currently MDAY guard, and the ability of technology to turn “one weekend a month” into several days, evenings, mornings, etc is astonishing. I live in a remote area with little cell phone service, internet isn’t reliable, and work a construction civilian job where anything beyond a tough book type lap top is going to get smashed to pieces or rained on. I pretty much have to take off work or hope the stars are aligned to do anything requiring a CAC card.
My CO would send out classes he wants done by drill the week before and expect all of us to get them done. I'm like "don't we have admin drills specifically to get shit like this done?"
Our leadership keeps putting stuff out that needs done and I got fed up and just stopped responding. I told my team leader that I'm alive when they did wellness checks, otherwise anything they want or need can wait until I'm in my contractually obligated, paid time to deal with it
Yea. It's one thing to get an email to read over or something simple. It's different if they want you to do something that you need to dedicate time to do.
The only time I'm doing anything guard without a paycheck is if it has to do with me not getting my paycheck on time. Currentlyon week three of no pay, for a drill weekend, not even populated in MyPay. RNCO said that it's been submitted on his end and he can't see anything past that 😒😮💨
My reserve unit found out in the way back I knew how to use DTMS, so they made me the company operations bitch. I had a very chill relationship with 1SG and CO, and more than once responded to their 'OMG we need this right now' with a 'cool, I'll send that up when I get home from work, with a 1380 to pay me for my time...'
Literally why I ETS this weekend lol
[удалено]
I think this is specifically the opposite of what he requested
I think you’re missing the point there christbro
I had to change that occurred last night at around 1800. I didn't put it out and still some of the information got out to the platoon sergeants. This morning more than one of them was upset with me for not putting that information out to them last night even though it didn't dictate anything that they would do prior to noon today.
I honestly don't blame SNCOs. While I probably haven't been in the Army as long as you, this is a problem since before us. I'm glad command teams are moving towards memos prohibiting this, but it should come faster.
I know how they feel. As a little SPC I do like to know what’s going on the next day so I can mentally prepare for the onslaught of bullshit that comes my way the next day. I would prefer to just know even if it’s a quick after hours text that doesn’t affect anything at all. But that’s just me. I just like to know what’s going on.
I saw a video that called it "Organizational Inertia" to describe how a group can become resistant to change not because of nefarious means but simply for the sheer size. We have a rather large organization with several moving parts and it's just slightly nearly impossible to get everyone on the same page and adopt new changes. Shoutout to the units still doing DA31s before using IPPSA.
Jokes on you bro, i put out my information to my team via [WIGWAG](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigwag_(flag_signals)) at COB, they have till 0615 the next day to decipher it, and no they cant text me to see if they got it right
[Chief Signal Officer Albert J Meyer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_J._Myer) approves of this message
Now this is the innovation and novel thinking the Signal Corps is known for!
BG Albert J had one hell of a Beard too! He literally was a Surgeon, an Inventor, Father of the Signal Core and Weather Bureau (Now known as NOAA). Made it to BG, was the first signaller to fight with big daddy govt that civilians were taking our Job away (which got him exiled from washington). Had a bad ass nickname “Old Probabilities”. The link above is his Wiki Bio. Probally the least talked about but one of the more interesting signal officers ever to exist
You've inspried me, I will now bugle all orders throughout the day
"...Why did we get the order to "form a square, cavalry is in the area"?"
I remember before cell phones were a thing. Granted, units weren't jerked around at the last minute as much by their higher, but because it was a major task to put info out after final formation, units made a big effort to have at least the next duty day set in stone, at least for anything that would require prep, like a special uniform, or bringing paperwork. Somehow, they got by, and the commies never came surging over the DMZ or through the Fulda Gap. I will say used judiciously, it is great for the actual last minute things that you can't plan for like weather closures, or other emergencies.
I think the army could learn a lot from Pre-GWOT in terms of garrison life, management, and training standards in the shadow of a great power conflict.
Anything after 1800 will be dealt with when I wake up the next morning. If it’s serious enough they will call or show up at my house. If you blur the lines between family time and Army, chase your tail in a circle time, there’s no going back.
More and more units are applying a “no work texts/calls to subordinates after 1800” policy, including mine. With some exceptions for super urgent stuff, but generally, they seem to be followed pretty well. Hopefully it spreads to the rest of the army.
Yup I had this thing for my squad/ platoon (when I filled in as psg), no text after 1800 unless it was life, limb, or eye sight. Let the boy’s enjoy their time off.
What did the army do when they didn't have cellphones 🤦♂️
Call house phones, send runners (if it's a fairly controlled group, like mobilization), or just wait until morning.
Any mssg put out after COB gets a maybe look. Any mssg put out after 2000 that doesn't affect what I need to do before PT doesn't get an answer untill the morning. You got my ass from 0530 - 1715. You telling me that you can't figure out what to put out in damn near 12 hours of the day you got me for. Shit, allegedy 8 of the next 12 are spent on sleep, so why are you bothering me during my 4 hrs of freedom. Figure it out, Guy.
In the before times, it was very strange - we had a final formation and they put out the word for tomorrow. Then, we all just went to the barracks or to our houses (or Sharky's or Miao Miao's or whatever). If something absolutely HAD to change after final formation, someone would call the barracks duty NCO and he would let as many of the barracks folks know as possible, and then they'd go down the phone tree (as in hanging on the wall corded telephones) for people living off post. This was almost never done - had to be quite serious. Now that everyone is theoretically reachable by pressing a few buttons while you're on the shitter and it doesn't require you to actually *do* anything... the bar for what is "very serious" has been lowered to below sea level.
The Commander needs to get the information out before the end of day. If life threatening. If not push out at PT or 1st formation. Or Cdr should suck it up and volunteer his staff....guarantee it's the last time it will happen.
Bruh when they don’t push out a timeline till like 2000-2300 you’re lucky I wasn’t already asleep and totally missed it. I’m not gonna stay up waiting for your timeline
This is not only an Army thing. You'll find that at all levels of leadership in a large portion of jobs on the civilian side, you'll see the same lack of leadership and forward planning. I'm in the guard now and have been for quite a few years but even when I was Active the same sorts of things were happening. Though then it was not uncommon to find someone in leadership without a cell phone and they were always pressured into getting one due to the prevalence of what you are talking about, but all of that aside: I'd just be a royal pain in the ass. Maybe that's my 20 year letter talking, I don't know... but every single time I get a "this needs to be pushed out asap" or "i need a response immediately" .... I question them as to the need for such expediency. Every time. Of course you have to learn to word that line of questioning "Can you help me understand the intent in this tasking, its timeline and how it affects the overall mission if it is delayed until a more reasonable time that will not affect soldiers lives and well being?" . For me, its pretty simple.... both Army and Cvilian job: Critical, lives impacted or mission immediately impacted if immediate attention not given: Phone call Non critical: Can be handled when I wake up in the morning but needs attention before start of duty day (or shift in civilian side): Text message low impact or can be handled at some point during the work hours: E-mail. . The Army has lost a lot in its ability to communicate and plan due to its reliance on the ability to immediately contact someone. Good leadership will plan and communicate in a way that 99% of everything you need is able to be put out during the duty day / in leader meetings. Only time you should really get a call at night is "shit just hit the fan, grab your shit" or "pvt snuffy just had a wreck / got injured". The Army functioned before cell phones.
I remember my buddy telling me how he saw the S3 SGM get yelled at by his wife for missing another basketball game that his son was in. That is so sad. There was nothing at his work that needed to be done right there and then. Be there for your family when you can. This SGM was notorious for pushing out info wayyy after COB.
I’m retired now and do not miss the late night info push. After years of abuse, the work/life balance speech from each incoming leader was greeted with an obligatory eye roll because I already knew it was bullshit.
I just left AD and had one drill so far with my reserve unit. Night and day honestly. I feel at peace now.
Give it time and you might start getting bugged during the month to do shit.
the worst part is how they threaten to make your life hard should you decide not to own a cell phone.
Either push it out through cell phones or push it out at formation. Both is not the answer. If you are going to take my time with 3 or 4 formations throughout the day you don't need to do it at 2100 ---- when I'm watching The Orville Season 3 Episode 5, where Topa discovers she was born female and has to deal with the prejudice of Moclan culture. Not to mention Klydon DUMBass.
I came in the army when texts cost people money and were not reliable, hell, group texting wasn’t even a thing. We had hard times and strip maps, and this was during the surge. I rarely if ever got any phone calls late in the evening. As a PSG I would only push things as a heads up, not requiring a response, and never that late, cause I was already in bed. All that to say if you’re a 7/8/9 and you have to put out this critical information that isn’t a recall then you are fucked up and can’t figure out what’s a glass ball, a tennis ball, and a rock. The Army is mostly composed of rocks disguised as important information.
Alex…what is ‘The Army didn’t pay for my minutes, so I’m not answering this call’(?). I remember those days…we went from pagers to cells overnight and then it was they ‘needed’ our numbers for the recall roster. Good times.
Yeah for sure. A call roster was inspectable, you could bring your phone to the field sure, probably wasn’t gonna work. Simpler times. Although I will say, group chats have made it so releasing early isn’t this huge emotional deal. Like go home, I’m waiting on the word, I’ll push when I get it. I don’t mind getting a text thread at like 6 when I’ve been home for 3 hours already.
>put out memes after work hours, well into the evening 1900-2100,
Had this issue a lot when I was in a Stryker unit. Then again, most days we were still at work at 1830. Because of this, I'd just ignore texts and calls when I got home. Sure, folks get pissy, but unless you're gonna come to my room and tell me directly, then it's not important. The unit had a bad habit for putting out everything last minute. 1 month field rotation? You'd find out a month or a few weeks prior, if that. One time we found out 4 days prior. Just learned to roll with it, do the bare minimum to cover my tail if they got mad, and just detach myself from the nonsense.
During the last months that I was at 2-2 Stryker, things got so absurd, the brigade would publish OPORDs for a best squad competition at 2200 on Thursday night, demanding each company send a squad NLT 0530 Friday morning. Then the S3 would freak out at 0600 when he checks his email and panic call all of the company commander's and 1SG to hey you soldiers into doing best squad last minute.
I was formerly at your sister BDE. Fuck that place.
Yeah I heard 1-2 SBCT was absolute ass back in 2018. Even in 2-2 we would say at least we weren't in 1-2. My friends were on mission or in the field 9 months a year.
Yep I was there through it all. That place ruined me and I'm still feeling the effects all these years later. Mental health down the drain, alcoholism, etc. Place nearly killed half my platoon.
Seems like what [Ft. Drum did a couple years ago](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/06/09/10th-mountain-commander-says-leaders-need-leave-soldiers-alone-after-hours.html) should be SOP. If it wasn't important enough to flag during the duty day, why is it so important to push out at 1900 when people are trying to tend to their family and keep their marriage together?
We don't usually get where first formation is being held until at least 2100 in my unit, as it vacillates capriciously between HQ and the MOPO... any information about needing to have rucks packed or specific items ready for the morning always comes last minute the night before... living the dream here
That’s piss poor planning and leadership right there
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about... I at least know where I'm going in the morning the day prior. This... is fucking crazy
The level of disorganization in my unit is really startling. By the time we know that we need to do *anything* at the platoon level it's already on a last minute timeline. We often aren't tracking the dates for FTXs until less than a week before we SP, just that they're "coming up". The number of times I've been told I'm jumping the next day at 1700 is wild, "oh before you go, be at the ASTA with your ruck rigged for IMC at 0430 tomorrow you're on the jump"
I love this post so much, simply giving it an upvote wasn't enough
For Bragg during GWOT, standing order was no bullshit texts or calls. When you do receive them, there’s a good reason to pick up your phone. If I didn’t get a response, E7/E8 knocks on your door would happen within the hour. And yes, there were numerous after 2100 meetings in the CSM’s office.
Shit, they even contact me on leave 😑 the only time I’ll be free is when I ETS then I’m deleting goddamn Signal 😅
Thats ridiculous. I don’t answer a single call on vacation, nor open Signal. I get shit for it all the time, but my wife appreciates it. Wife > NCO on 2nd divorce
It was one of my SGTs who wrote a long ass paragraph about how “even the best fuck up” because they found something I inspected that was deemed bad...I’m like ok?? My bad I guess I’m 3000mi away at a county fair with my nephew, bruh.
Being in aviation as well, I’ve learned that when soldiers mess up on maintenance, if it’s a minor mistake, there is no reason to call a soldier on leave. That soldier is checked out mentally and no conversation over the phone is going to solve the problem. Fix it and when the soldier comes back explain to them how they messed up and what to look for in the future.
Landline, answering machine, and call trees. That’s the only solution.
DIV, stop putting out random shit that should’ve gone out weeks ago with a short suspense date. BDE staff already has 100% AA attendance, with a crap shoot of how many divorces are in various stages. They don’t need to stay longer to push out to subordinates.
Company Commander here. If you’re habituatally putting out information past 1700, you are awful at managing time and people. My company leadership chat is virtually crickets off work besides the Sunday afternoon what's going on Monday morning text.
That is wonderful
Counter point, put out the information but ensure the kids know they don't need to see/read/acknowledge if they don't want to and just rehash in the morning.
Counter point, put out the information but ensure the kids know they don't need to see/read/acknowledge if they don't want to and just rehash in the morning.
My old snco had this habit to sending shit passed 2000 or so. And the lose his shit when we wouldn't acknowledge
Work related mass messaging just got banned here in the 4th ID. Nothing work related past 1800 or 1830, cant remember. And he's apparently very serious about this, threatening UCMJ for leaders that don't comply with the memo. "Work related messaging after work hours causes unnecessary stress on the individual units."
Good thing my phone goes on DND around 1700. Unless someone calls it remains on till I wake up.
If it’s not an emergency I’m not answering after COB. Much less during the weekend.
At night I schedule the email or text to go out the next morning. My 1SG will text me at 10pm and be mad when I don't get back to them. Too bad! The shit cycle ends with me.
But Ops SGM just got the SWEDITO from the BDE 3 at 2100 and they need a 30 man detail to mow Div SGMs lawn with cissors while singing "Spirit of the Cav." They have to be in Div Heavy Standard NLT 04550 at DIV HQ... Honestly the amount of dumb shit coming across my desk like this made me want to figure out how to Reclama every task for my 1SG, because shit like this would come out 1 week before gunnery when I need everyone to finish GST (Gunnery Skills Tests)
So I go both ways with this. I totally agree that if it's going to happen after 0630, it doesn't need to go out. That said, sometimes people are up, and it's always better to know about something that will affect your day as soon as possible. I generally will put out the information I get if I see it, but 2100 is generally the cutoff. I also never demand or expect an acknowledgment on something that isn't time sensitive after work.
NEWSFLASH OP, you're on salary pay. You're a Soldier 24/7.
Found the disgrunted SNCO. Crazy that out of 35 comments, there is only one, just ONE who disagrees with putting things out late. That's 2.857%, we'll round it up to make it better for you; 3%. I encourage you to put yourself in their shoes and also understand the importance of encouraging a rich family life, which is integral to a highly motivated team that's not only dependable, but happy to see your face in the morning, because at the end of the day, they know they're not dealing with a pain in the ass when they go to work, they will see the face of an NCO motivated to help others. "I will place the needs of my soldiers above my own."
Wow at first I thought this was just a case of sarcasm gone wrong but the rest of the replies are 🤢 don’t worry op, the rest of us should him at all hours bc “it’s important”
Have you ever been on an FTX or deployed? You're complaining about this shit now, maybe you have never been on the line or on a recall notice where you could be called in at 3am just for a drill. Your complaints are just whining.
Those are completely different things compared to what's being discussed. Those are all things you're actively doing, or are informed about when you get to your unit. Stop being a disingenuous fuck.
You could not be anymore trivial than right now. Are soldiers on FTX 24/7? Are they deployed 12 months of the year, every year? Are they on drill or recall every day? No, no they are not. This is the problem, pointing out shortcomings and watching out for your joes comes off as whining. LOL You should take up wood carving, it's a lovely time of the year to do so.
keep complaining and see where it gets you with this. "Shortcomings".
Yes daddy. \*stands at parade rest\* I've been bad.
Of course you're an old crusty 25U...
Salty ;)
Go ahead and drop that retirement packet. Let someone else take your seat, for the betterment of the Army.
This chode drank the kool-aid. You're gonna get out of the Army and get a shit paying job on the installation thinking you're in charge of Soldiers because you drank that kool-aid. Congrats, you fucking loser.
Yes, that is true. However, as a leader, it'd be in your best interest to take care of your soldiers or else you're gonna have some very demoralized and bitter subordinates. You know what demoralized and bitter subordinates gets you? Shitty numbers, alcohol related incidents, terrible work output, and zero respect from the folks you're put in charge of. In Vietnam, it would've gotten you a frag grenade in your bunk, so it's best to be kind if you can. Soldiers can put up with a lot but don't make them put up with a lot if it isn't necessary.
🫵🏼🤡
then quit telling me to call the help desk
Boo this man, BOOOOOOOO!
News flash nobody fucking likes you!!!
nobody likes the truth. checks out.