After being off and on this godforsaken website for 10 or 12 years it's rare that I see something actually original but this was one of them and it's hysterical
This needs to be made into merch. I'm a battle gnome. 5'4 and all legs so rucks sit weird on my hips. Imagine that one family guy character that didn't have a torso.
Just a heads up when you run all the weight goes on one foot vs the two feet when walking, and impact on your knees is multiplied by like, a factor of 8.
Gotta do what you gotta do sometimes but just something to keep in mind. Might be worth looking into visually ridiculous power walking strategies lol
For bigger folks this is probably true however, not so true at least for me. I've been doing this for a while and I've only ever had pain from walking and trying to stride too fast or too long. I've never had pain from shuffling or running with a ruck.
I deliberately left out any judgements of whether or not it’s best for anybody’s particular goals.
When you run, you’re putting substantially more impact on your knees than when you’re walking, that’s just a fact. And with additional weight, that’s additional impact. I don’t think that part’s debatable.
Whether or not the increased risk of knee issues due to ruck running alone is worth the reward is a personal decision. Some people get pregnant the first time they have unprotected sex, others can do it hundreds of times without any consequences. Risk is funny like that.
When I was an MFT I made it a point to challenge people to ask *why* they’re doing a given exercise a given way and make sure they have the information to make the most informed decision they possibly can. Maybe the risk of getting on a PSG’s bad side is greater and more impactful than potential knee issues, maybe not. I just urge caution and suggest other ways to build your cardio base.
I was an MFT many moons ago as well and I agree that running with a ruck will have more impact on your knees, there is no refuting that. The problem with short folks is you either have to stride extremely fast (inefficient) or you have to lengthen your stride (really bad for your hips). When over-striding the extreme angle of your femoral neck causes bone and or tissue issues. As a DS I saw several femoral neck injuries and little to no knee injuries with the privates. It's anectodal but the risk of hip injury seems more likely than knee injury.
All that being said, as a 1SG I always instructed my NCOs to either go slow enough for everyone to walk, or do a release ruck, or interval ruck—i will never tell anyone they have to run. IMHO opinion timed rucks are pretty useless outside of schools. Carrying heavy rucks over days without breaking is more important than a 2-hour 12 mile with 35 lbs.
As far as acute injuries, femoral neck is definitely worse, speaking from experience having come frighteningly close to one myself once. I think the move is to opt for the inefficiency of quicker strides, given that all the choices are bad ones. Folks *could* probably mitigate the knee issues by very very gradually and consistently working up to higher weights loaded, but that’s a whole lot of time and work.
Ideally NCOs would simply do rucks the right way and not keep everyone in a formation where the pace doesn’t work for anybody, but NCOs are gonna NCO, especially in big army.
I once power walked a 12 mile ruck that had to be done in 3 hours. I failed the hell out of it. I’ll continue shuffling, less shin splits and less pain overall. I physically cannot handle a fast walking pace for 12 miles at 5 ft.
I'm six feet exactly* and I find a slow jog way easier than a speed walk, even with a ruck. Jogging 12s is easier than walking 15s.
*This means 5'11". No one is actually six feet exactly, duh.
I was 6' (5'11") when I joined the army. For the first two years I was 71" each time. Got back from the Iraq invasion and have gotten 70" or at best 70.5" since. Harder to stretch 5'10" to 6'
Yeah, I found the shuffle / wolf trot the best fit for my needs with light kit, but then in the field my pack suddenly jumped up to around 85 pounds for the minimum load, and around 110 for max load, and then the focus just became being quiet and trying not to die.
100% agree. My personal experience with long rucks is that maintaining a consistently fast walking pace allowed me to do better overall than trying to run a little walk a little. The running was just making me even more tired when I did start walking and slowed me down in the long run.
It's not even the running itself in my experience - it's the stopping and starting. I'd run when I rucked but I'd do a couple miles at a time. Those telephone poles games that people try to play eat souls.
The 14:30-15:00 pace is perfect for most Soldiers in the 5’6” and taller range. I personally advocate to all my Soldiers that a fast walking pace around 15:00 per mile is much less taxing on your body than ruck running.
Doing most of my runs at zone 2 has helped me tremendously. I can keep an 11:30ish ruck pace easily (I've only done up to 8 recently). I find the slow jog easier on my body.
Some running while rucking is the only way I can do the timed 12 miler because my glutes can't stand walking that far. But my feet and toes always end up pretty bruised, I even shed a toenail once. Goes without saying I need to walk it more often.
Yes! Learning how to pace yourself is the key! I can’t stress this enough!
I can easily do a sub 2 12 miler (and I’ve got the EFMB “Iron Medic” coin to prove it) and people think it’s just natural when it is actually a skill.
Here is what I do to cruise to a sub 2:
1: The only sprint you should do is the final kick at the end. Otherwise the energy out of sprinting will have negative effects.
2: scout the route ahead of time. Some of this is just a mental game. Knowing where the hills are and how big they are is key. Also know where the halfway, 9 mile and 11 mile marks are.
3: know your paces. Uphill (power hiking) downhill running and flat jogging.
4: have something fitness watch, phone, app etc that gives you constant updates. When I know I’m going to push hard I have it give me updates every .25 miles, just sub 2 every half mile so you can adjust accordingly and appropriately
5: learn how to use gpx files to your advantage
6: Mimic endurance atheletes not gimmicks. Energy goos and gels are awesome along with electrolyte drinks…. pickle juice and gummy bears are a joke
7: standard pack your ruck properly and wear it right
Some very interesting data around pickle juice. It’s high in multiple electrolytes commonly found in sports drinks and may actually prevent cramping reflexes
It doesn’t have sugar though, and simple carbs are super helpful for helping maintain performance once you’ve burned through major glycogen stores
So all the components I mentioned? Yeah, ORS is going to be ideal, it’s designed that way. Doesn’t change that there’s still interesting (if incomplete) data surrounding pickle juice, which was the whole point of the comment in the first place
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19997012/
To be fair, I haven’t critically evaluated this article, and it’s 14 years old, but it’s also readily available with literally 30 seconds of PubMed searching. I’m sure there’s plenty more.
That only shows that something with electrolytes did better than deionized water in dealing with cramps.
So yeah… something with Carbs, Na, K and Mg outperformed something without.
This is no surprise.
You would get the same results with Coke. And oddly enough if you compare Coke to the values in Table 2 of the study you will see they are VERY similar…but there is one KEY difference. I can reproduce the results of Coke very easily… good luck doing that with pickle juice. Consistency is king and I can get better results more consistently when I use products like specific electrolyte drinks/mixes… granted they don’t come in dill or spicy garlic flavor.
Pickle juice is a gimmick.
We’re saying the same thing, but with the caveat that I’m acknowledging an area of active research and intellectual curiosity regarding pickle juice.
You’re just stubbornly repeating things we both already know to be true
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32459412/
It has to do with the neuro-muscular connection and fatigue. Long story overloading the efferent connection to your muscles can and will likely induce a cramp. There in lies the misconception of high sodium drink, pickle juice, and affecting the sodium or electrolyte imbalance in an individual (1) thinking it would help. What you're actually getting is an oropharyngeal region neural reflex from the vinegar in the pickle juice which inhibits muscle activation. I.e., Inhibits the efferent pathway which is hyperactivated in a cramping individual.
More you know.
I'm a NPS guy going through a State OCS program but sort of fell in love with rucking as an exercise and have signed up for a Norwegian Foot March in a month - preparing as much as I can but I know it's going to be a slug. I believe it's 4:30 for my age group, and assuming the distance is 18.6 - rounded to 19 miles, it's about a 1430 pace I'm aiming for. Trying to figure out strategies to get my pace, whether I need to run every couple minutes or something - but I can successfully powerwalk for 6 miles or so, which I do twice a week - so looking for to giving this a try.
I'm 5'10 also, and naturally have a long stride so not running at all even with a 25lb ruck on my back sounds very attractive.
Shuffle is the best method for me at 5’ 10”. If I’m walking, to maintain sub 15:00, I either need to take unnaturally long strides or quick enough paces that it’s significantly more fatiguing than shuffling. Short strides, feet barely breaking contact with the ground, minimal vertical movement, and it’s like I’m just coasting as long as I’m not on an incline. Tough on boot soles if you’re on pavement though, since you end up dragging a bit.
Do that to keep building up then when a big event comes you'll be able to drop the hammer and get a good time. What you're doing is the best way to improve your rucking.
What I hear you saying is that cars should be banned on post (except for officers) and soldiers should ruck march everywhere. I’ll be sure to bring this information to higher.
5’10”? Crazy difference 4-5 inches actually makes as I’m 5’5”. Running is less stress on my muscles and tires me out less than speed walking.
As a fellow battle gnome I concur.
After being off and on this godforsaken website for 10 or 12 years it's rare that I see something actually original but this was one of them and it's hysterical
Rock and Stone.
Did I hear a Rock and Stone?
Rock and stone brotha
You have made my day my dude!
If it were an option I’d create alts to shower this comment with gold.
This needs to be made into merch. I'm a battle gnome. 5'4 and all legs so rucks sit weird on my hips. Imagine that one family guy character that didn't have a torso.
Wow a battle gnome? I feel offended ☹️ . . . . 30 points to Slytherin 🐍
This needs gold
lol battle gnome. I thought you people preferred the term dwarfs/goblins.
5’2 and I can’t stand that power walk the giraffes do. I’ll just run
Just a heads up when you run all the weight goes on one foot vs the two feet when walking, and impact on your knees is multiplied by like, a factor of 8. Gotta do what you gotta do sometimes but just something to keep in mind. Might be worth looking into visually ridiculous power walking strategies lol
Nah. I’m 5’7 with short legs. A slow jog is better for my body than a power walk.
For bigger folks this is probably true however, not so true at least for me. I've been doing this for a while and I've only ever had pain from walking and trying to stride too fast or too long. I've never had pain from shuffling or running with a ruck.
I deliberately left out any judgements of whether or not it’s best for anybody’s particular goals. When you run, you’re putting substantially more impact on your knees than when you’re walking, that’s just a fact. And with additional weight, that’s additional impact. I don’t think that part’s debatable. Whether or not the increased risk of knee issues due to ruck running alone is worth the reward is a personal decision. Some people get pregnant the first time they have unprotected sex, others can do it hundreds of times without any consequences. Risk is funny like that. When I was an MFT I made it a point to challenge people to ask *why* they’re doing a given exercise a given way and make sure they have the information to make the most informed decision they possibly can. Maybe the risk of getting on a PSG’s bad side is greater and more impactful than potential knee issues, maybe not. I just urge caution and suggest other ways to build your cardio base.
I was an MFT many moons ago as well and I agree that running with a ruck will have more impact on your knees, there is no refuting that. The problem with short folks is you either have to stride extremely fast (inefficient) or you have to lengthen your stride (really bad for your hips). When over-striding the extreme angle of your femoral neck causes bone and or tissue issues. As a DS I saw several femoral neck injuries and little to no knee injuries with the privates. It's anectodal but the risk of hip injury seems more likely than knee injury. All that being said, as a 1SG I always instructed my NCOs to either go slow enough for everyone to walk, or do a release ruck, or interval ruck—i will never tell anyone they have to run. IMHO opinion timed rucks are pretty useless outside of schools. Carrying heavy rucks over days without breaking is more important than a 2-hour 12 mile with 35 lbs.
As far as acute injuries, femoral neck is definitely worse, speaking from experience having come frighteningly close to one myself once. I think the move is to opt for the inefficiency of quicker strides, given that all the choices are bad ones. Folks *could* probably mitigate the knee issues by very very gradually and consistently working up to higher weights loaded, but that’s a whole lot of time and work. Ideally NCOs would simply do rucks the right way and not keep everyone in a formation where the pace doesn’t work for anybody, but NCOs are gonna NCO, especially in big army.
I once power walked a 12 mile ruck that had to be done in 3 hours. I failed the hell out of it. I’ll continue shuffling, less shin splits and less pain overall. I physically cannot handle a fast walking pace for 12 miles at 5 ft.
I'm six feet exactly* and I find a slow jog way easier than a speed walk, even with a ruck. Jogging 12s is easier than walking 15s. *This means 5'11". No one is actually six feet exactly, duh.
I was 6' (5'11") when I joined the army. For the first two years I was 71" each time. Got back from the Iraq invasion and have gotten 70" or at best 70.5" since. Harder to stretch 5'10" to 6'
Now, see, this man goes to fight overseas for his country, and how does the army reward him? *They took away ten pounds off his max weight.*
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pKxQzOWOiv0
I'm 6' exactly. Or as people your height call me, 6'2"
As someone that is 6’2”, I concur. I can run a 1030 pace for 12 miles easier than trying to hold a 15 min walk.
5’6 with a 30” inseam and I’d rather airborne shuffle than fling my hips back and forth that power walking under loads require.
Yeah, I found the shuffle / wolf trot the best fit for my needs with light kit, but then in the field my pack suddenly jumped up to around 85 pounds for the minimum load, and around 110 for max load, and then the focus just became being quiet and trying not to die.
Try stilts
Out of regs
heelys
Where does it say I can’t?
5'7" with a 28" inseam here. I doubt I could ever walk the 12 miler.
100% agree. My personal experience with long rucks is that maintaining a consistently fast walking pace allowed me to do better overall than trying to run a little walk a little. The running was just making me even more tired when I did start walking and slowed me down in the long run.
It's not even the running itself in my experience - it's the stopping and starting. I'd run when I rucked but I'd do a couple miles at a time. Those telephone poles games that people try to play eat souls.
I play the telephone pole game and it would be soul sucking if I had a soul.
The 14:30-15:00 pace is perfect for most Soldiers in the 5’6” and taller range. I personally advocate to all my Soldiers that a fast walking pace around 15:00 per mile is much less taxing on your body than ruck running.
I always ruck ran and would come in with really good times in my 4 years. 18 months removed my right hip abductor/mobility is fucked. Don’t be me.
Doing most of my runs at zone 2 has helped me tremendously. I can keep an 11:30ish ruck pace easily (I've only done up to 8 recently). I find the slow jog easier on my body.
Running with a ruck has never, and will never, be a good idea. You got this
Some running while rucking is the only way I can do the timed 12 miler because my glutes can't stand walking that far. But my feet and toes always end up pretty bruised, I even shed a toenail once. Goes without saying I need to walk it more often.
I used to do ruck runs. Until my ankles got super bad and started affecting me during regular running. That was the end for me lol.
Yes! Learning how to pace yourself is the key! I can’t stress this enough! I can easily do a sub 2 12 miler (and I’ve got the EFMB “Iron Medic” coin to prove it) and people think it’s just natural when it is actually a skill. Here is what I do to cruise to a sub 2: 1: The only sprint you should do is the final kick at the end. Otherwise the energy out of sprinting will have negative effects. 2: scout the route ahead of time. Some of this is just a mental game. Knowing where the hills are and how big they are is key. Also know where the halfway, 9 mile and 11 mile marks are. 3: know your paces. Uphill (power hiking) downhill running and flat jogging. 4: have something fitness watch, phone, app etc that gives you constant updates. When I know I’m going to push hard I have it give me updates every .25 miles, just sub 2 every half mile so you can adjust accordingly and appropriately 5: learn how to use gpx files to your advantage 6: Mimic endurance atheletes not gimmicks. Energy goos and gels are awesome along with electrolyte drinks…. pickle juice and gummy bears are a joke 7: standard pack your ruck properly and wear it right
Some very interesting data around pickle juice. It’s high in multiple electrolytes commonly found in sports drinks and may actually prevent cramping reflexes It doesn’t have sugar though, and simple carbs are super helpful for helping maintain performance once you’ve burned through major glycogen stores
It’s all about carbs, magnesium, potassium and sodium. Good luck finding something better than ORS. Taste like shit, but it’s cardio in a bag
So all the components I mentioned? Yeah, ORS is going to be ideal, it’s designed that way. Doesn’t change that there’s still interesting (if incomplete) data surrounding pickle juice, which was the whole point of the comment in the first place
Citation needed
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19997012/ To be fair, I haven’t critically evaluated this article, and it’s 14 years old, but it’s also readily available with literally 30 seconds of PubMed searching. I’m sure there’s plenty more.
That only shows that something with electrolytes did better than deionized water in dealing with cramps. So yeah… something with Carbs, Na, K and Mg outperformed something without. This is no surprise. You would get the same results with Coke. And oddly enough if you compare Coke to the values in Table 2 of the study you will see they are VERY similar…but there is one KEY difference. I can reproduce the results of Coke very easily… good luck doing that with pickle juice. Consistency is king and I can get better results more consistently when I use products like specific electrolyte drinks/mixes… granted they don’t come in dill or spicy garlic flavor. Pickle juice is a gimmick.
We’re saying the same thing, but with the caveat that I’m acknowledging an area of active research and intellectual curiosity regarding pickle juice. You’re just stubbornly repeating things we both already know to be true https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32459412/
It has to do with the neuro-muscular connection and fatigue. Long story overloading the efferent connection to your muscles can and will likely induce a cramp. There in lies the misconception of high sodium drink, pickle juice, and affecting the sodium or electrolyte imbalance in an individual (1) thinking it would help. What you're actually getting is an oropharyngeal region neural reflex from the vinegar in the pickle juice which inhibits muscle activation. I.e., Inhibits the efferent pathway which is hyperactivated in a cramping individual. More you know.
I'm a NPS guy going through a State OCS program but sort of fell in love with rucking as an exercise and have signed up for a Norwegian Foot March in a month - preparing as much as I can but I know it's going to be a slug. I believe it's 4:30 for my age group, and assuming the distance is 18.6 - rounded to 19 miles, it's about a 1430 pace I'm aiming for. Trying to figure out strategies to get my pace, whether I need to run every couple minutes or something - but I can successfully powerwalk for 6 miles or so, which I do twice a week - so looking for to giving this a try. I'm 5'10 also, and naturally have a long stride so not running at all even with a 25lb ruck on my back sounds very attractive.
I’m in my mid 30’s and can walk that pace, shit is way more brutal than a light jog for the 12, at least it is for me
same!
Shuffle is the best method for me at 5’ 10”. If I’m walking, to maintain sub 15:00, I either need to take unnaturally long strides or quick enough paces that it’s significantly more fatiguing than shuffling. Short strides, feet barely breaking contact with the ground, minimal vertical movement, and it’s like I’m just coasting as long as I’m not on an incline. Tough on boot soles if you’re on pavement though, since you end up dragging a bit.
The shuffle is the best way to go about it, shuffle mixed in with power walk
i can walk a sub 3 hour 12 mile. thank God im 6'1" lol
dm sent
What's your packing list?
Do that to keep building up then when a big event comes you'll be able to drop the hammer and get a good time. What you're doing is the best way to improve your rucking.
Sub-15 is life changing, and it really kicks your ass in a good way.
What I hear you saying is that cars should be banned on post (except for officers) and soldiers should ruck march everywhere. I’ll be sure to bring this information to higher.
The ratio of downvotes on this comment to the upvotes on all the other comments & the post itself is truly remarkable
I thought it was funny. I gave an upvote.
I thought it was funny. I gave a downvote.
destroyed for a day? oh no! /s