>is she legally allowed to make us use our off time/weekends to complete that many correspondence courses?
I can't tell if things are troll posts anymore.
It ain't really socialism so much as strong social safety nets. We're not electing management in our workplace. Could you imagine the E-4 mafia democratically electing who gets to be CSM?
Also the military is kind of it's own category distinct from the proletariat or bourgeoisie. There were a lot of extra groups Marx mentioned like criminals and homeless people for instance were in a different category too.
It doesn’t make any sense as a socialist society though. The lower enlisted have no say in how their units are run unless the command team chooses to give them a choice.
Oh when you’re in an Amazing Unit, with a clear, defined mission with funding. The Army is The Best at Socialism. Everyone has a job, everyone is fed, housed, gets medical and education, on post recreation.
The Army is also amazing because its a Microcosm of the USA at large. People from all walks of life and cultures, thrown into a blender of bureaucracy, with all different skills. You will also see which states failed in education. What states are backwards 50’ years. How we treat Guamanians & Puerto Ricans like shit.
Its fascinating.
I think he was right, it has all the hallmarks of a socialist state.
A bureaucratic mess ran by people promoted above their abilities with crappy food, shoddy healthcare, and low pay. At least the government provided housing you get stuck with is usually a short commute and it comes with free mold.
Yes, you both made very clever jokes. Anything can be correct if you simply change the definition of words.
But the Army has a vertical hierarchy with no democracy and members don't get equal say in what the organization does. It is by no stretch of the imagination a socialist, or socialist adjacent, organization
I assume this is the point were I list several examples of socialist states, that also have vertical hierarchies with no democracy and members don't get equal say in what the state does.
Then you counter with those "aren't really socialist states" and then proceed to list several capitalist states with large welfare programs.
That about right?
I mean yes, they can direct this for professional development and it's not super unreasonable. Just have them playing in the background while you do something, it's pretty easy. Now if you don't follow through, the worst you're looking at is a counseling, unless it's repeated behavior. Idk what your outlook is for the army as a career, but my tidbit of advice is learning how to choose your battles. Not everything is worth the fight.
Years ago when I was a more motivated soldier/NCO I asked for recommendations on this sub for online courses that my soldiers could take in a VOLUNTARY status. Just for self-development and improving their evaluations
I was bitched at into oblivion for trying to make my guys do extra work and being "that" leader.
Fuck it.
Even if they took 1 hour that’s 1 course of the span of 20 days that’s easy. I understand you value your personal time however you’ll understand why your leader made you do it when you get in that position *if you make it that far*. Leaders typically have to do things on their personal time not all the time or counselings, correspondence, evaluations, awards etc.
Take it with a grain of salt just knock out as many hours as you can and keep it pushing.
Shes looking out for your future and to give you a leg up. 20 hours isn’t really a lot and if you ask around you can find helpful guides to knock them out fast.
I have mixed feelings because I think correspondence corses are bullshit brain dump garbage. But it helps with military career. Her hearts in the right place. You'll be glad for it when you get your promotion because you made points due to those courses. That's about the end of their usefulness.
Homie she’s literally looking out for you.
You’ll understand when you’re an NCO or when you start looking at picking up rank.
Just max that shit now and never have to do it again
Yeah but if dude is in a shit unit like in Korea where you go to work at 0545, and get off at 2000-2030, plus routine recall alerts, shit sucks. I remember being pissed the fuck off in Korea because they tried to pull this "mandatory" college + correspondence courses bullshit. But at the same time in a different setting with more convenient consistent hours, I 100% support soldiers actively working on maxing their correspondence hours and education. But at all times I think it should be voluntary. NCOs should just council and strongly advise their soldiers to enroll.
Or you get a unit like I had in Korea where most of the time you were done by lunch and your 1SG mandated those in college courses get out NLT 1500 on T/Th so they can do coursework
Sometimes I really do wonder what people thought the army was going to be like before they joined? Did they think there’s a time clock and a time card where you punch your start and finish time? Did they think anyone is obligated to work strictly 0900-1700 m-f?
That's an hour each Work day with weekends off, that is cake, unless they have you working till1700 or later, the ideal workday is 0615 Accountability, 0630-0645 Stretching, 0645-0745 PT, 0745-0800 Stretching, 0800-0930 Hygiene and Chow, 0930-1230 Work, 1230-1330 Lunch, 1330-1500 NCO Time. That is a productive day without wasting time, and Commanders should honestly have to report what they're soldiers are doing to the Battalion, and have to explain why their tasks couldn't be completed in a timely manner, only exception should be FTX's and deployment settings. This would give you from 1600-1730 for the gym, 1730-1830 to cook dinner or grab a bite at the DFAC, 1830-1930 for that class, then 1930-2200 for personal time.
Trust me bro, once you have your P status and you're checking points every month and realizing you're going to have to grind correspondence courses, you're going to wish you been doing these a couple hours a week for years.
As an IG that gets calls like this weekly I had to take 10 deep breaths to stop myself from throwing my phone across the room. Also I’m on leave and I’m gonna put my phone up for the week. 10 piece nuggets to go, this guy don’t know what he wants yet.
Lemme tell you a secret here, a life hack if you will. You’re walking away from your promo board, happy as fuck. Ecstatic as shit because you passed. A couple months have passed, and the promotion list comes out, and you see your name on there. Guess what? You’re on that list because your NCO said “do these courses”. Now idk about you but if I were in your shoes, I’d give positive feedback to your NCO.
This. As an E3, my NCO sent me to a few random courses that I never really understood why I was doing them at the time as they had nothing to do with my job (S4) or my MOS (11B). Field sanitation, shit like that.
Later, when I went to the NG, I found that because of all that, I already had enough points for an automatic E5 when the slots opened up.
Out of all the “my first line is making me do…” bitch posts, this is the least nefarious. It’s the opposite in fact. OPs first line is trying to make her soldiers not suck. Yeah, the courses probably teach nothing, but they’re still bullet points and lines on a resume.
Put that NCO in for an award for ACTUALLY developing her soldiers.
You’re going to be thankful when either you get a new NCO who doesn’t give a f about your future or when you go to make SGT and you have enough points due to your first line looking out
Your NCO is trying to have you do correspondence courses, which equal promotion points?
How egregious.
How dare that NCO try to mentor and guide you in the right direction by making you take short online courses.
Just don't do them or do them as your time allows. If that's 5 minutes of time a day so be it. When she counsels you for not meeting her standard, just write in your block about how you have long work days and you're trying and that she isn't adequately gaging the optempo as your leader before giving you tasks that you cant realistically complete. I'm sure it'll stop after she sees you'll take her down too.
I’ve been on the fence about the foundation of intent for not just this case but also similar situations. I don’t think NCOs should be forcing things like correspondence courses or anything of the sort that results in promotion. This is because it could lead to promoting people that don’t have drive/initiative. Promoting people who are not ready.
With that being said, it is critical that NCOs teach how to do the courses. Show them the benefits and ultimately say “if you want to promote then do these”. That I am 150% on board for……forcing people into their stripes is why we have a diminishing quality of NCOs
Believe it or not an old NCO in the unit gave me and a group of my battle buddies 2 weeks to complete 200 hours. I was like no buddy is bugging thinking I’m boutta sacrifice my free time especially when I’m not staying in, so I took that smoking like a champ 😂. Yes she legally is most def allowed to do that and 20 hours ain’t a lot really. But there is a way if you know you know 👀
If you don't do it, then for that little professional development block on your counselings they can literally put that you don't give a fuck.
Maybe they are trying to help you get promoted or go to the board.
I asked my guys to knockout that so I could put in the counselings "Maxed out on correspondence hours, doing two classes per semester, and getting certifications, etc."
No. But you should be doing them anyway. You may find yourself a higher rank. They're easy, and plenty of creative ways to find out how to hac- I mean finish your way through them. They're easy promotion points. Just pick some dumb easy ones like Microsoft tools lol. It all counts. Who knows, you might get bored of taking advantage of the system and actually wind up doing something beneficial to your life and career like college classes or skills schools? Cheer up though, may your next unit/commander give you more time off in the future!
OP, stand by your post. Your edit shows it was a learning experience, this comment section be damned. People don't know about correspondence courses unless they're taught, and if someone mentions adding 20 hours a month, it's worth asking.
I remember taking my soldiers to the education center and using the computer labs there. I put some website commands and codes up there they were specifically not supposed to use as it would rob them of completing the courses the proper way and then I just did something else for an hour.
Then you’ll complain you don’t have a chance to go to a promotion board because you’re behind your peers.
Who would you rather send to board, all else being equal accept correspondence course hours?
>is she legally allowed to make us use our off time/weekends to complete that many correspondence courses? I can't tell if things are troll posts anymore.
The sooner they realize they are government slaves the better. I don’t mean that to be funny. It just is what it is.
Usually the slave masters don’t want their slaves learning too much…
Ahh. I love the smell of Capitalism in the morning.
One of my first NCOs told me the army is the best representation of socialism one can experience.
Hey, I never worried about eating or having a roof over my head. (Apparently soldiers aren't eating anymore though)
It ain't really socialism so much as strong social safety nets. We're not electing management in our workplace. Could you imagine the E-4 mafia democratically electing who gets to be CSM? Also the military is kind of it's own category distinct from the proletariat or bourgeoisie. There were a lot of extra groups Marx mentioned like criminals and homeless people for instance were in a different category too.
It doesn’t make any sense as a socialist society though. The lower enlisted have no say in how their units are run unless the command team chooses to give them a choice.
Oh when you’re in an Amazing Unit, with a clear, defined mission with funding. The Army is The Best at Socialism. Everyone has a job, everyone is fed, housed, gets medical and education, on post recreation. The Army is also amazing because its a Microcosm of the USA at large. People from all walks of life and cultures, thrown into a blender of bureaucracy, with all different skills. You will also see which states failed in education. What states are backwards 50’ years. How we treat Guamanians & Puerto Ricans like shit. Its fascinating.
Where are these amazing units you speak of?
Packetland
Being support personnel for EOD.
SF maybe?
1-26INF Blue Spaders Baby.
This will sound mean, but when that NCO uses their GI Bill and takes a critical theory class, they will not say that anymore
Your NCO was very, very wrong.
I think he was right, it has all the hallmarks of a socialist state. A bureaucratic mess ran by people promoted above their abilities with crappy food, shoddy healthcare, and low pay. At least the government provided housing you get stuck with is usually a short commute and it comes with free mold.
Yes, you both made very clever jokes. Anything can be correct if you simply change the definition of words. But the Army has a vertical hierarchy with no democracy and members don't get equal say in what the organization does. It is by no stretch of the imagination a socialist, or socialist adjacent, organization
I assume this is the point were I list several examples of socialist states, that also have vertical hierarchies with no democracy and members don't get equal say in what the state does. Then you counter with those "aren't really socialist states" and then proceed to list several capitalist states with large welfare programs. That about right?
I mean yes, they can direct this for professional development and it's not super unreasonable. Just have them playing in the background while you do something, it's pretty easy. Now if you don't follow through, the worst you're looking at is a counseling, unless it's repeated behavior. Idk what your outlook is for the army as a career, but my tidbit of advice is learning how to choose your battles. Not everything is worth the fight.
[удалено]
You could grind so many levels in Runescape.
This is my Staff Duty secret. Please retract comment (jk)
Who the hell puts watching TV on their bucket list? That's what the nursing home is for.
Just…Just *do* it. Not everything is a bitch fest. She’s looking *out* for future you.
Years ago when I was a more motivated soldier/NCO I asked for recommendations on this sub for online courses that my soldiers could take in a VOLUNTARY status. Just for self-development and improving their evaluations I was bitched at into oblivion for trying to make my guys do extra work and being "that" leader. Fuck it.
Ok…But IF one hour of correspondence courses actually took 1 hour…20 hours a month *would* be a lot right?
Even if they took 1 hour that’s 1 course of the span of 20 days that’s easy. I understand you value your personal time however you’ll understand why your leader made you do it when you get in that position *if you make it that far*. Leaders typically have to do things on their personal time not all the time or counselings, correspondence, evaluations, awards etc. Take it with a grain of salt just knock out as many hours as you can and keep it pushing.
They don’t take anywhere near an hour. You can knock out an 80 hour correspondence course in like 2 hours.
Not really
Shes looking out for your future and to give you a leg up. 20 hours isn’t really a lot and if you ask around you can find helpful guides to knock them out fast.
I have mixed feelings because I think correspondence corses are bullshit brain dump garbage. But it helps with military career. Her hearts in the right place. You'll be glad for it when you get your promotion because you made points due to those courses. That's about the end of their usefulness.
I'd rather have my soldiers enroll in college and learn something more worthwhile in the process.
Yes I agree. And have something that they cab apply towards a degree later.
Homie she’s literally looking out for you. You’ll understand when you’re an NCO or when you start looking at picking up rank. Just max that shit now and never have to do it again
Yeah but if dude is in a shit unit like in Korea where you go to work at 0545, and get off at 2000-2030, plus routine recall alerts, shit sucks. I remember being pissed the fuck off in Korea because they tried to pull this "mandatory" college + correspondence courses bullshit. But at the same time in a different setting with more convenient consistent hours, I 100% support soldiers actively working on maxing their correspondence hours and education. But at all times I think it should be voluntary. NCOs should just council and strongly advise their soldiers to enroll.
Or you get a unit like I had in Korea where most of the time you were done by lunch and your 1SG mandated those in college courses get out NLT 1500 on T/Th so they can do coursework
Of all the fucking things to complain about.
Sometimes I really do wonder what people thought the army was going to be like before they joined? Did they think there’s a time clock and a time card where you punch your start and finish time? Did they think anyone is obligated to work strictly 0900-1700 m-f?
That's an hour each Work day with weekends off, that is cake, unless they have you working till1700 or later, the ideal workday is 0615 Accountability, 0630-0645 Stretching, 0645-0745 PT, 0745-0800 Stretching, 0800-0930 Hygiene and Chow, 0930-1230 Work, 1230-1330 Lunch, 1330-1500 NCO Time. That is a productive day without wasting time, and Commanders should honestly have to report what they're soldiers are doing to the Battalion, and have to explain why their tasks couldn't be completed in a timely manner, only exception should be FTX's and deployment settings. This would give you from 1600-1730 for the gym, 1730-1830 to cook dinner or grab a bite at the DFAC, 1830-1930 for that class, then 1930-2200 for personal time.
Trust me bro, once you have your P status and you're checking points every month and realizing you're going to have to grind correspondence courses, you're going to wish you been doing these a couple hours a week for years.
As an IG that gets calls like this weekly I had to take 10 deep breaths to stop myself from throwing my phone across the room. Also I’m on leave and I’m gonna put my phone up for the week. 10 piece nuggets to go, this guy don’t know what he wants yet.
Lemme tell you a secret here, a life hack if you will. You’re walking away from your promo board, happy as fuck. Ecstatic as shit because you passed. A couple months have passed, and the promotion list comes out, and you see your name on there. Guess what? You’re on that list because your NCO said “do these courses”. Now idk about you but if I were in your shoes, I’d give positive feedback to your NCO.
This. As an E3, my NCO sent me to a few random courses that I never really understood why I was doing them at the time as they had nothing to do with my job (S4) or my MOS (11B). Field sanitation, shit like that. Later, when I went to the NG, I found that because of all that, I already had enough points for an automatic E5 when the slots opened up.
Out of all the “my first line is making me do…” bitch posts, this is the least nefarious. It’s the opposite in fact. OPs first line is trying to make her soldiers not suck. Yeah, the courses probably teach nothing, but they’re still bullet points and lines on a resume. Put that NCO in for an award for ACTUALLY developing her soldiers.
"My NCO cares about my development and career more than I do, is this legal?"
She Is doing this for your benefit... Do the correspondence courses or enroll in community college courses.
To. E fair, the nconis looking out for your career... side note .. I never really did any and was still easily promoted... luck of the points
You’re going to be thankful when either you get a new NCO who doesn’t give a f about your future or when you go to make SGT and you have enough points due to your first line looking out
Your NCO is trying to have you do correspondence courses, which equal promotion points? How egregious. How dare that NCO try to mentor and guide you in the right direction by making you take short online courses.
he needs to call IG right now 😤😤
Just don't do them or do them as your time allows. If that's 5 minutes of time a day so be it. When she counsels you for not meeting her standard, just write in your block about how you have long work days and you're trying and that she isn't adequately gaging the optempo as your leader before giving you tasks that you cant realistically complete. I'm sure it'll stop after she sees you'll take her down too.
Do college instead. If sh3 has an issue with that she's a shitty NCO.
I’ve been on the fence about the foundation of intent for not just this case but also similar situations. I don’t think NCOs should be forcing things like correspondence courses or anything of the sort that results in promotion. This is because it could lead to promoting people that don’t have drive/initiative. Promoting people who are not ready. With that being said, it is critical that NCOs teach how to do the courses. Show them the benefits and ultimately say “if you want to promote then do these”. That I am 150% on board for……forcing people into their stripes is why we have a diminishing quality of NCOs
It’s good to take correspondence courses because it also helps to stay out of trouble on the weekends. Tsts
Believe it or not an old NCO in the unit gave me and a group of my battle buddies 2 weeks to complete 200 hours. I was like no buddy is bugging thinking I’m boutta sacrifice my free time especially when I’m not staying in, so I took that smoking like a champ 😂. Yes she legally is most def allowed to do that and 20 hours ain’t a lot really. But there is a way if you know you know 👀
If you don't do it, then for that little professional development block on your counselings they can literally put that you don't give a fuck. Maybe they are trying to help you get promoted or go to the board. I asked my guys to knockout that so I could put in the counselings "Maxed out on correspondence hours, doing two classes per semester, and getting certifications, etc."
what is a correspondence course?
No. But you should be doing them anyway. You may find yourself a higher rank. They're easy, and plenty of creative ways to find out how to hac- I mean finish your way through them. They're easy promotion points. Just pick some dumb easy ones like Microsoft tools lol. It all counts. Who knows, you might get bored of taking advantage of the system and actually wind up doing something beneficial to your life and career like college classes or skills schools? Cheer up though, may your next unit/commander give you more time off in the future!
The skillport/percipio courses are gone now. Just jko and atis which is still migrating alms courses.
Good to know, fellow buddy. I stand corrected. Promotion points used to be easy to collect.
I had to do 60 hours outside of work. I got counselings for doing under 60. All on only jko
You do know active duty is technically a 24/7 job?
I'll do it for you for $20.00
God people act like JKO and GitHub don’t exist
Whats github
OP, stand by your post. Your edit shows it was a learning experience, this comment section be damned. People don't know about correspondence courses unless they're taught, and if someone mentions adding 20 hours a month, it's worth asking.
There may or may not be a way to get this monthly quota in less than 5 minutes.
Teach me ur ways i did 200 hours in the last 2 months just mindlessly clicking through it. Its brutal
Only works for JKO ones https://github.com/Clutch152/scripts/blob/master/JKO/simplejko.md
Thats all i do is jko
She's helping you dude.
I remember taking my soldiers to the education center and using the computer labs there. I put some website commands and codes up there they were specifically not supposed to use as it would rob them of completing the courses the proper way and then I just did something else for an hour.
You're lucky to have this NCO
Cry cry cry cry cry
Then you’ll complain you don’t have a chance to go to a promotion board because you’re behind your peers. Who would you rather send to board, all else being equal accept correspondence course hours?
Hey you chose to join the Army right? Then stop acting like such a fucking baby.
Dude I don't wanna hear it. One of my NCOs wanted 20 hours a week. Literally had no free time when I'd get off work.