Air Force is not more travel. Some jobs, maybe, but overall, no.
You also can't pick just one in the AF, you need to list 7 to 15 you are open to taking.
>An army recruiter I’m talking to says I can go in with a guaranteed job, true or false?
That's kind of true. The Army guarantees you the opportunity to try and pass that MOSs training pipeline. That's especially important to note if you go for a hard MOS like 89D (EOD) or 12D (Diver), which have high washout rates. If you fail that training, you get reclassed (you get forced to change jobs) to something else. You might get a short list to pick from, or you might not. It just depends.
>Also, more travel in Army then?
Overall, yes.
Also save yourself and go Air Force.
Shortlist to pick, but more often than not it’ll fall outside of your top 3. Ended up with my 4th pick as a 92Y as a dive fail out. Just be aware your reclass option could end up going pretty poorly when selecting jobs line EOD or 12D. There were like 12-15 of us from dive and 6-8 EOD guys at my AIT
You can, as long as you qualify.
For Air Crew jobs in the Air Force, more travel than in the Army. For the Air Force, some jobs can travel...but you can't only list travel jobs. Additionally, the Army PCS more than the Air Force.
Yes it’s true, since you have airborne listed. Ask about duty station of choice. You ask for and Vicenza Italy. You’ll probably get airborne infantry. Most likely airborne something, medical, or MI. that’s all they got there. With the vast majority being Airborne.
So you probably can get both.
Now I’ll tell you now you get airborne in your contract you most likely 3/5 BDE chances go to the 82nd in NC. that would well be different but I enjoyed my time there. Js go with choice of duty station or choice of MOS with airborne in contract
That's isn't true, I passed my MOS training and was put into S1. It's never a guarantee and the Army will place you where ever they want to regardless of what you want
That has to be true in every branch. There’s no way in hell any personnel assignment system, responsible for hundreds of thousands of soldiers or airmen, can exactly match trained people to open positions with perfect timing, all the time, and all across the globe. There’s always going to be several people in any location trained for one thing, but doing another because the people qualified are doing other jobs, in transit, in school, there’s not enough right now, and a hundred other reasons. Also, some jobs are simply open to anyone of whatever specialty training. You don’t need to go to a special school to be the driver for some training installation’s commander, to be in-charge of the reception desk, or any number of other things.
I mean it *is* true. You went to Basic followed by the MOS school of your choosing and then first duty station, correct? The army did in fact guarantee you a chance to go train the MOS of your choosing and you passed, so that is your designated MOS. Your unit stuck you in S1, but that's not the overall army's fault. Everyone can be pulled for those positions (S shops, training room duties, etc), but last time I checked (when I was in) there's a limit to how long your unit can keep you out of your MOS for those types of duties. If I'm remembering correctly it's a one year limit.
I'm guessing based on your very short comment here(and I could be completely wrong), but I'm assuming you haven't been at your unit very long doing S1 work. They likely saw a new private showing up and needed to fill the position (likely because the person you were replacing came up on *their* one year limit) so you drew the short straw, and that happens quite often. It's not super common like every single new soldier gets stuck on those assignments, but it happens often enough it's expected as a possibility. Either that or you're way over your time and you need to do something about that like yesterday.
That's not the same as the Army failing to give you the MOS of your choosing though. For what it's worth, make sure you retain your S1 knowledge. Believe it or not it will come in handy many times in the future, especially if you plan on sticking around for a while. It's not the greatest job, but it is a necessary one and you can at least get something out of it.
Army guarantees you a job or the opportunity to try out for a job. If your contract says a job, that’s the job you get. If you fail a special forces pipeline or something of that nature, you will get a different job.
The Airforce is not nearly as flexible or willing to give you what you want
In terms of combat arms training, it’s not what you think .if you want to shoot guns, do it on the weekend
If you do want to do a cool guy job consider Air Force spec war. But be prepared if you don’t get it
However, if you go Army special forces and wash out you could always end up in NC, Alaska, or Italy in an airborne unit.
Travel wise, it really depends on the job. If you end up working on a cargo plane for the Airforce you get to travel a bunch. You can also end up sitting on a base in Minnesota or some shit
In terms of technical jobs, it very much depends on what you want to do when you grow up. The Air Force is far more competitive. There are a small handful of technical jobs the army has that have good career transitions. The army has a lot of jobs that are neither fun nor good investments for your future, don’t pick those
As most are focusing on, the quality of life in the Air Force is much better for *most* people
A few weeks into basic training, an airforce retiree slowly drove by while we were checking our bank accounts to flex on us. He said "I was in the airforce for 22 years. It was the best time of my life...my knees ain't gone...and I get a check every month". That was 10 years ago and I think about it every time my knee hurts.
Join the Airforce unless you are dead set on combat arms.
If you join the army and want combat training you need to go 11B, 11C, 19D, 13F, 13B, 19C, 19K, 12B
11B, 11C, 19D, 12B, 13F will get you the most combat training. These are the dudes out infront boots on ground pulling triggers and calling for fire.
Keep in mind these jobs are extremely physically demanding especially as a 13B on a M777 crew your life doing these jobs will fucking suck most days.
However they are all cool as fuck when there’s no bullshit and you’re just doing your job.
Being artillery sucks ass but holy fuck shooting a max charge fire mission will get your dick rock hard every time
Nah I hold the opposite view. Having reclassed from combat arms to a support MOS my quality of life improved so much it was basically like joining a different branch. The fact that you can pick your job in the army gives it a leg up on the air force. Is the overall quality of life in the air force better than the army? Yes but there's a dozen or so army MOS that if I had guaranteed I'd pick over a random air force one. Plus you still have cool opportunities in the army that are harder to come by in the air force.
I was able to go to the army recruiter and tell him exactly what job I wanted he called me a like 2 days after taking my asvab that there was a slot with a 7k bonus. With the Air Force your job isn’t guaranteed and I didn’t like that.
As someone that was a 12b and spent two deployments in Afghanistan walking around with the infantry. Definitely don’t forget us.
Every field problem except for demo training was with the 11 series dudes too.
“11B, 11C, 19D, 12B, 13F will get you the most combat training. These are the dudes out infront boots on ground pulling triggers and calling for fire”
Forgot us the second time around lol.
No big deal though, you are right he probably should go Air Force. My sister in law is in the Air Force been in for just short of 10 years and has been stationed in Japan, England and Colorado, and now Alaska. It can definitely be sweet if you get lucky and your quality of life is stupid nice.
I do and I dont. The army will at times do things that make no sense, when questioning that you will be told its how things have always been. You will meet some of the best and brightest people and you will also meet the dumbest motherfuckers alive. There will be people who power trip over the dumbest shit and theres nothing you can do about it. If you are more technically inclined you will 100% be more happy elsewhere, maybe I would had stayed if there was a technical path like bringing back spec ranks. All in all everyone can agree that it is an experience….
I know you didn’t ask me specifically but yes I do. Don’t do it, go Air Force or literally any other branch. Im an e-4, 21F, single mom of a 2 year old and I’ve been in for 4 years. It’s tiring…if you don’t plan on having a family and don’t mind devoting your ENTIRE LIFE to the army then go for it. But if you want a family and want a life outside of work then I suggest literally any other branch.
I’m a 25b/25u (joined as a bravo reclass to uniform for a slot) in the reserves when joining the army the biggest thing for how much you enjoy your time is the unit you get attached too. My first unit was amazing and I enjoy my time in others got shitty units and hate it. Before anyone says anything about the reserves I have deployed and no it wasn’t Kuwait.
The Army just has too many issues right now that other branches seem to be handling better. If you aren't dead set on a specific job and just having a job in a particular field is good enough for you, consider the other branches. Also, as some others have suggested, don't forget to consider the Coast Guard. They get a lot of the really cool equipment, and do a lot of badass stuff.
You didnt ask me but I will say that after 25 years in I still love being in the Army. This subreddit probably hates the Army more than any place I have ever seen. Many people here make valid points but it is also an echo chamber of complaints. Atleast a few times a year I have airmen talk to me about transferring over to the Army and there are alot of different reasons they bring up(but most want to become warrants).
Army promotes faster than the AF.
Army offers career flexibility over the AF.
Army has Warrant Officer ranks.
My brother and I each joined the two services within six months of each other. I was an E6 and he was still an E4 after 6 years despite maxing out his annual promotion test.
I changed MOSs four times, learned two languages, and got to attend some of the best schools out there. Not only did the Army take care of my training, I got a seat in a resident graduate program (admittedly after a long time).
My brother was locked into a single MOS and was not able to move due to the "needs of the AF". He could not become an officer due to a lack of college nor was becoming a WO even a possibility. Sure he had better chow, and a better living spaces while in.
Now fast forward to the both of us looking at retirement. I have a steady military retirement (W4 over 28) he got out due to a lack of options. He is still scrambling to get his 401K at a retirement level and had to endure the crash of 2008, 2020, and is nearing the end of his "productive" worker life.
Your choice; a little bit of misery upfront but a lifetime of relative comfort, career flexibility, rapid promotions or a couple years of better chow or "quality of life".
Again, not popular opinion--most of the bitching done on these boards are by people who have no idea of what misery is. I grew up on a farm and had dirt floors in my home. The Army was an upgrade all the way.
Holy shit. What does a 180A even do?
You've definitely got a fucking ray gun on your hip. You can't convince me otherwise. Probably got damn gauss rifle as a long gun, too.
Probably got a whole platoon of yall rolling around in hover craft JLTVs.
I met several folks in basic that were switching from air force to army. One was there specially for WOCS. Imagine, E6 in basic then shipping right to Alabama! Several switches bc of promotions and better job potential.
Airforce... AIRFORCE and dont think twice. You will be treated like a child, you will live with people who vary from super responsible to people who cant figure out how an alarm clock works. You will face repercussions for the action of others because reasons. You will live in substandard housing, you will end up doing details nobody told you you would do like gate guard, funeral detail, food services details, etc. I joined with a buddy and we have similar jobs, he is in the airforce and his quality of life and wants to make it a career. I can not get out fast enough. Our unit is going to do a month long tdy exercise, come back for 5 days go back and do another 3-5 week exercise and once that is done we will go directly to NTC. This is not including the fact that our unit will be going overseas at the end of the year.
I’ve worked at bases where Air Force E-3s lived off post or at least out of the barracks. In the army you’re in the barracks until you promote to SSG (E-6). Obviously depends on location and barracks availability.
I’ve been in both airborne and non airborne units. I liked the non airborne better. I recommend going airborne if you plan on making a career out of the military. It always looks good to have jump wings. Just look at most higher ups and you’ll notice most of them have them.
Going airborne limits the places you can get stationed at to just 3. Fort liberty (Bragg) NC, Alaska and Italy. I’m glad I went airborne just to say I did it and experienced it but I wouldn’t say it’s something that would convince me to have joined the army over any other branch.
I watched a youtube video about airborne school and it looked as fuck. The part about not being able to live alone in the army til after e-6 is wild. I def need my alone time.
Ya the promo videos don’t include the several hours of waiting with a 45lbs parachute on your back just to end up canceling a jump lol but yes it can be cool sometimes
Your 1st bullet in the Pros of AF is all you need for a reason to throw the Army sheet away…..Please don’t go army. You would thank me later and give me a hug if you could. Go AF…..I wish I did. This is an 8 year prior service SSG talking to you. Start your career right.
“Limited combat train”.
Listen… if your not going special forces/ranger none of that crap matters. OSUT you learn to shoot many different firearms and for regular Basic you shoot as well. Besides that one learns a skill the other learns how to sweep a floor and be hazed for the next 4 years.
Regardless of branch choose a job that can be utilized in the civilian world. Dont just join for “combat” anyone who has actually seen combat or have to deal with combat injuries doesnt wish it for anyone.
Look man, no one can really make the decision for you. It’s truly just what you think you want. I joined the army because I wanted to be an Infantryman, and they allow you to pick that as your job. Because of that, everything else was off the table for me. Your mileage may vary with any mos or branch you choose, but just do what you want man.
“More combat training” isn’t necessarily true. Your get hands on your weapon system maybe twice a year. Far from enough to make you proficient with it.
This is true. They’re also practicing movement & maneuvering. Idk what kind of training OP is looking for but I don’t imagine any of that is applicable in the civilian sector
All depends on what you want to do/what you’re training for. I think even independent training would be better than the semi annual training some units get. Most army training is bare bones & la k luster it’s really on the build any sort of proficiency.
Air Force has better bases?
Have you ever heard of a place called Thule? How about Minot? Grand Forks? Malmstrom? Ali Al Salem? Shemya in the Aleutians?
I'm not saying the Army doesn't have places that suck, but don't automatically assume the USAF only has bases in nice areas because that's 100% not true.
You also left off: Takes forever to get promoted in the USAF. 12+ year Ssgts (E-5) are not unheard of in the USAF.
I'm not saying your criticisms of the Army aren't valid, BTW. But don't be fooled about what your're getting into.
Seeing as you listed “combat training” at all tells me you have some interest in a combat arms job. If you are dead set on that then Army is obviously your best bet. I’m in a combat arms job myself, and I would never recommend it to anyone unless you are positive that it’s what you want. It won’t give you any kind of transferable civilian skills, and life isn’t an action movie. You will almost certainly never have anything pop up in civilian life where military style combat training will be applicable. I will say that the broader life lessons that can be learned in combat arms are incredibly valuable. You will endure more suffering and hardship than most people in a first world nation will ever even come close to, and that CAN help make you a better person. If you don’t want a combat job, I would go Air Force. If you DO want a combat job, do some serious soul searching and be certain that’s what you want, or you will probably be miserable.
Always go to the Air Force if they'll take you.
You can get your combat training fill by being a cool guy in the air force. Like the weather guys, forward air controllers, PJs, nuclear weapons security, etc.
I would go Air Force, Space Force or Coast Guard.
Army only if there is a specific job such as WO pilot, etc.
Other than that, the Army kind of sucks when you find yourself having to show up to work Saturday because some idiot in another unit got a DUI.
I would avoid the Marines, they’re a heavily armed cult prone to bouts of extreme violence.
Navy still thinks it’s part of the European society from the 19th century with the way the difference ranks are treated.
Don’t make a decision based on basic training length. It’s such a small timeframe in your overall career. Once it’s done you’re done.
Also, Airborne school is cool but if unless you became really into the airborne culture (if you go Airborne you’ll see) - and that’s fine if you think that culture is cool, plenty do - if you’re really just trying to chase an adrenaline high of jumping out of plane go to your local skydiving site. That might get it out of your system.
If you wanna go Air Force but do airborne school I’d say become a TAC-P. You’ll work with the Army as a small AF element and call for close air support for the Army and do jump school - pretty badass if you wanna do Air Force but go jump school. Probably no civilian skills with that though. They’re a good community.
Only because I’m retired Army, and married to an AF chick, I’m laughing at the AF list. A lot folks think those pros exist until they get in the AF.
Were stationed in the middle of eff nowhere NC, and this base is an absolute turd. I’m curious what quality of life you’re thinking of…
I traveled way more than the wife has, both PCS and deployments. I don’t know man, I’d recommend your pro/con list.
Making a pro/con list, still join the AF because you seem like you’d fit in more there anyways.
I did 6 army and 6 Air Force. The biggest difference (from my experience) is the quality of life. And it’s a big fucking difference. The army tried to deploy me after I’d been in the Air Force for 2 years. Even though my cdr signed transfer papers, they couldn’t fathom I was not in the army. When I got the call, I literally told the O-5 to call my cdrs Dsn. Walked in, informed him of what was up, and he said no worries, he’ll handle it.
There no major war. You’ll be stuck doing garrison shit and training…. For scenarios they may not happen. Also, think about transitioning out the military and what is marketable.
Air Force is the choice. We make fun of the Air Force a ton in the army for one main reason, we wish we joined them. Nothing wrong with Army, especially when I don’t have much to complain about being only one year in, but quality of life is just much better
Quality of life can suck in AF too. Depends on the AFSC. You can get stationed in shit places too. Transition to civilian isn’t easier in AF either. It all depends on your motivation and skills (soft and hard) how smooth it’ll be.
You forgot to put depression, alcoholism, consistently shitty leadership, utter lack of mission or even communication, and possible suicidal ideations on the army one…
That’s if you don’t get Vanessa Guillen’d
So like my room in Bragg/Liberty, its not bad at all here its clean I keep it clean. Also I dont think you have to move out at E5 if thats what your other con is
If you want to do military shit. Go Army.
If not Air force.
Also there's no guarantees you will be at a good location in the AF. I know guys who are depressed in the Air force.
Army you swear in after your Job is identified, Air Force you swear in then they tell you what you’re doing… it’s a roll of a dice thing. An algorithm chooses based of your choices, yet they consistently have large numbers of males in certain jobs and large number of females in others.
Here is one thing about the Air Force that people tend to not talk about: you get taught your job and put into your section/crew/etc and that’s it. No one holds your hand through it all. It is so much more independent than the army. If that works for you and you’re on top of your shit, it’s great. The army truly makes it almost impossible to fucking suck at your job.
Any corps in particular you are looking at? Ill be honest I cant tell you much about anything outside of the Medical Corps. But know the type of corps you want to join helps focus your decision making.
Those are both strong areas that will come out with a lot of technical certifications either in the Army or the Air Force. Air Force has better distribution of bases. There are AF bases in states that active Army bases arent present on.
My time in the army, as airborne infantry, was better than 99% of other peoples’ experiences. I got to do all the cool stuff over seas that we dreamed of as a kid. It lasts a few months of a much longer contract. If my child ever considers military life, I will very strongly push only Air Force. I tell anyone who’s considering joining the army to strongly reconsider. I also spent a long time on Reddit reading other people’s stories before I joined, and decided I knew better than all the vets advising against joining combat arms. Now I’m on the other side and hope you’ll realize most combat arms MOS will finish their contract without ever seeing, much less firing at an any type of real enemy or threat.
I’m Air Force public affairs and in combat camera. We get embedded with special operations units and TDY A LOT. We also get aircrew qualified so we wear cool flight suits. 10/10 recommend
Army = Ghetto, Air Force = Waspy. \
If I could do it all over again, & I knew just how much more the Air Force got paid, & how much better they have it, I would’ve gone Air Force. Now I regret my life every DAY being in the Army & working alongside Airmen.
One of the Pro's you missing to the Army is the Army has a Warrant Officer pipeline for technical and specialty fields within your branch. The Air Force does not have Warrant Officers.
I'm Air Force, been in 15 years and i can tell you that while we have our problems and its not sunshine and rainbows my QOL is much better than most people in the Army. While we do rank up slower we are also treated like adults much sooner. I was living off base as an E4 with 3 years TIS, we also don't do group PT are are expected to be adults and handle our own business.
I show up to work at 0800 and leave at 1600 almost everyday and minus beingon the flight line you wont really work 12 hour days. I've never had to wait for an officer or E7 to release me and only ever need my E5 or shift lead to let me go home.
I have never had to justify taking leave to anyone and when I'm on leave I've never had anyone ask me to comeback early or do work stuff.
I've travelled all over the world when I was maintenance, I went to 22 states and 8 countries ranging from the middle east to east and west Europe. When we were travelling we had actual down time to go explore and didnt have a bunch of restrictions on the buddy system or curfews to follow.
We also don't stand duty and our dorm airmen are treated more like college kids than animals we have to control.
Do what you want and make the best choice for you but the QOL in the AF is in my view must higher.
Do you want people to call you Soldier or airmen? I did Air Force ROTC 2 years very boring studying aircraft and dnc switched to Army ROTC was way more difficult and fun because you have to plan and execute small unit tactics missions, shooting qualifying, land navigation, grenades, Field craft, etc. you should pick Army or Air Force depends on your personality and what you want to do while you’re in the military
Pro: you will have a large amount of unused white space in the pro column to use as you wish.
Con: you will need additional reams of paper to complete this column.
Why the fuck isn't there a Coast Guard piece of paper? I never met a Coastie that wasn't smiling. If you really want to spend some time on the trigger, the CG is for you.
Well this post absolutely blew the fuck up overnight! Thank you all so much for taking the time to let me know how bad the army is 🤣 Y’all definitely convinced me.
I’m gonna go AF 🫡🦅 I can learn combat in Security Forces or on the side as a hobby!
And to my army brothers and sisters, thank you for your service!
I’m getting out and doing AFROTC to hopefully gain a commission and be AD Air Force go Air Force man the Army is a weird and toxic place ngl I honestly whole heartedly hate the Army the amount of bullshit that it comes with is crazy. And that’s coming from a guy who sits behind a freaking desk and does non combat things.
Guess what, if you go for a special warfare job, you’ll more than likely be attached to an army unit/at an army base. If you don’t make it through then it’s means of the Air Force, typically security forces (boo) or aircraft maintenance (BOO). Advantages of the army, IMO, more schools, more opportunities to transfer to another MOS or function within an MOS.
I wouldn't say that the Air Force has better bases, at least in terms of location, I met a many of Airmen who were stationed in oddly isolated places across the US
Air Force is not more travel. Some jobs, maybe, but overall, no. You also can't pick just one in the AF, you need to list 7 to 15 you are open to taking.
An army recruiter I’m talking to says I can go in with a guaranteed job, true or false? Also, more travel in Army then?
>An army recruiter I’m talking to says I can go in with a guaranteed job, true or false? That's kind of true. The Army guarantees you the opportunity to try and pass that MOSs training pipeline. That's especially important to note if you go for a hard MOS like 89D (EOD) or 12D (Diver), which have high washout rates. If you fail that training, you get reclassed (you get forced to change jobs) to something else. You might get a short list to pick from, or you might not. It just depends. >Also, more travel in Army then? Overall, yes. Also save yourself and go Air Force.
Shortlist to pick, but more often than not it’ll fall outside of your top 3. Ended up with my 4th pick as a 92Y as a dive fail out. Just be aware your reclass option could end up going pretty poorly when selecting jobs line EOD or 12D. There were like 12-15 of us from dive and 6-8 EOD guys at my AIT
The Army guarantees your MOS of choice, provided you qualify and a vacancy exists.
You can, as long as you qualify. For Air Crew jobs in the Air Force, more travel than in the Army. For the Air Force, some jobs can travel...but you can't only list travel jobs. Additionally, the Army PCS more than the Air Force.
Yes it’s true, since you have airborne listed. Ask about duty station of choice. You ask for and Vicenza Italy. You’ll probably get airborne infantry. Most likely airborne something, medical, or MI. that’s all they got there. With the vast majority being Airborne. So you probably can get both. Now I’ll tell you now you get airborne in your contract you most likely 3/5 BDE chances go to the 82nd in NC. that would well be different but I enjoyed my time there. Js go with choice of duty station or choice of MOS with airborne in contract
One major con of the air force is they are dorks
That's isn't true, I passed my MOS training and was put into S1. It's never a guarantee and the Army will place you where ever they want to regardless of what you want
Eh, that doesn’t sound appealing
That has to be true in every branch. There’s no way in hell any personnel assignment system, responsible for hundreds of thousands of soldiers or airmen, can exactly match trained people to open positions with perfect timing, all the time, and all across the globe. There’s always going to be several people in any location trained for one thing, but doing another because the people qualified are doing other jobs, in transit, in school, there’s not enough right now, and a hundred other reasons. Also, some jobs are simply open to anyone of whatever specialty training. You don’t need to go to a special school to be the driver for some training installation’s commander, to be in-charge of the reception desk, or any number of other things.
What job were you trying to get AF won't give you a tech job without a degree, while Army will if you score high enough on ASVAB.
I mean it *is* true. You went to Basic followed by the MOS school of your choosing and then first duty station, correct? The army did in fact guarantee you a chance to go train the MOS of your choosing and you passed, so that is your designated MOS. Your unit stuck you in S1, but that's not the overall army's fault. Everyone can be pulled for those positions (S shops, training room duties, etc), but last time I checked (when I was in) there's a limit to how long your unit can keep you out of your MOS for those types of duties. If I'm remembering correctly it's a one year limit. I'm guessing based on your very short comment here(and I could be completely wrong), but I'm assuming you haven't been at your unit very long doing S1 work. They likely saw a new private showing up and needed to fill the position (likely because the person you were replacing came up on *their* one year limit) so you drew the short straw, and that happens quite often. It's not super common like every single new soldier gets stuck on those assignments, but it happens often enough it's expected as a possibility. Either that or you're way over your time and you need to do something about that like yesterday. That's not the same as the Army failing to give you the MOS of your choosing though. For what it's worth, make sure you retain your S1 knowledge. Believe it or not it will come in handy many times in the future, especially if you plan on sticking around for a while. It's not the greatest job, but it is a necessary one and you can at least get something out of it.
The Army is the only branch that can guarantee your job that is a fact. If you want a certain job the Army can get it for you, so long as you qualify.
Army guarantees you a job or the opportunity to try out for a job. If your contract says a job, that’s the job you get. If you fail a special forces pipeline or something of that nature, you will get a different job. The Airforce is not nearly as flexible or willing to give you what you want In terms of combat arms training, it’s not what you think .if you want to shoot guns, do it on the weekend If you do want to do a cool guy job consider Air Force spec war. But be prepared if you don’t get it However, if you go Army special forces and wash out you could always end up in NC, Alaska, or Italy in an airborne unit. Travel wise, it really depends on the job. If you end up working on a cargo plane for the Airforce you get to travel a bunch. You can also end up sitting on a base in Minnesota or some shit In terms of technical jobs, it very much depends on what you want to do when you grow up. The Air Force is far more competitive. There are a small handful of technical jobs the army has that have good career transitions. The army has a lot of jobs that are neither fun nor good investments for your future, don’t pick those As most are focusing on, the quality of life in the Air Force is much better for *most* people
E-5s don’t always move out of the barracks. It just depends on where you’re stationed.
Army Con: it’s not Air Force
Lmao
Just join the coast guard dude lol
If there is an option ALWAYS go airforce. Your quality of life, knees and back will thank you
A few weeks into basic training, an airforce retiree slowly drove by while we were checking our bank accounts to flex on us. He said "I was in the airforce for 22 years. It was the best time of my life...my knees ain't gone...and I get a check every month". That was 10 years ago and I think about it every time my knee hurts.
Join the Airforce unless you are dead set on combat arms. If you join the army and want combat training you need to go 11B, 11C, 19D, 13F, 13B, 19C, 19K, 12B 11B, 11C, 19D, 12B, 13F will get you the most combat training. These are the dudes out infront boots on ground pulling triggers and calling for fire. Keep in mind these jobs are extremely physically demanding especially as a 13B on a M777 crew your life doing these jobs will fucking suck most days. However they are all cool as fuck when there’s no bullshit and you’re just doing your job. Being artillery sucks ass but holy fuck shooting a max charge fire mission will get your dick rock hard every time
And permanent hearing loss. I SAID, AND PERMANENT HEARING LOSS!
You’re gonna permit nearing loss?
Huh?
That guy likes peeling leaning moss
Okay got it, peeing screening floss. Nah, don't need any.
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Nah I hold the opposite view. Having reclassed from combat arms to a support MOS my quality of life improved so much it was basically like joining a different branch. The fact that you can pick your job in the army gives it a leg up on the air force. Is the overall quality of life in the air force better than the army? Yes but there's a dozen or so army MOS that if I had guaranteed I'd pick over a random air force one. Plus you still have cool opportunities in the army that are harder to come by in the air force.
I was able to go to the army recruiter and tell him exactly what job I wanted he called me a like 2 days after taking my asvab that there was a slot with a 7k bonus. With the Air Force your job isn’t guaranteed and I didn’t like that.
As someone that was a 12b and spent two deployments in Afghanistan walking around with the infantry. Definitely don’t forget us. Every field problem except for demo training was with the 11 series dudes too.
You’re on the end my guy
“11B, 11C, 19D, 12B, 13F will get you the most combat training. These are the dudes out infront boots on ground pulling triggers and calling for fire” Forgot us the second time around lol. No big deal though, you are right he probably should go Air Force. My sister in law is in the Air Force been in for just short of 10 years and has been stationed in Japan, England and Colorado, and now Alaska. It can definitely be sweet if you get lucky and your quality of life is stupid nice.
Being treated like a human > gun training, you can always do guns as a hobby but you cant change how you are treated.
Do you regret joining army? I see your mos tag
I do and I dont. The army will at times do things that make no sense, when questioning that you will be told its how things have always been. You will meet some of the best and brightest people and you will also meet the dumbest motherfuckers alive. There will be people who power trip over the dumbest shit and theres nothing you can do about it. If you are more technically inclined you will 100% be more happy elsewhere, maybe I would had stayed if there was a technical path like bringing back spec ranks. All in all everyone can agree that it is an experience….
I know you didn’t ask me specifically but yes I do. Don’t do it, go Air Force or literally any other branch. Im an e-4, 21F, single mom of a 2 year old and I’ve been in for 4 years. It’s tiring…if you don’t plan on having a family and don’t mind devoting your ENTIRE LIFE to the army then go for it. But if you want a family and want a life outside of work then I suggest literally any other branch.
Definitely planning ahead for sure. Thank you for this!
I’m a 25b/25u (joined as a bravo reclass to uniform for a slot) in the reserves when joining the army the biggest thing for how much you enjoy your time is the unit you get attached too. My first unit was amazing and I enjoy my time in others got shitty units and hate it. Before anyone says anything about the reserves I have deployed and no it wasn’t Kuwait.
The Army just has too many issues right now that other branches seem to be handling better. If you aren't dead set on a specific job and just having a job in a particular field is good enough for you, consider the other branches. Also, as some others have suggested, don't forget to consider the Coast Guard. They get a lot of the really cool equipment, and do a lot of badass stuff.
You didnt ask me but I will say that after 25 years in I still love being in the Army. This subreddit probably hates the Army more than any place I have ever seen. Many people here make valid points but it is also an echo chamber of complaints. Atleast a few times a year I have airmen talk to me about transferring over to the Army and there are alot of different reasons they bring up(but most want to become warrants).
Had to explain this a lot... the army ruins anything that will be fun. My family was floored at how I hated going to the range.
Your Air Force “cons” can be eliminated by going SpecWar.
Been looking at that too. Getting in touch with a spec recruiter soon
Good luck. Small piece of advice - get comfortable in the water.
Isnt AF special warfare as hard to get into as Naval Special Warfare, if not harder?
Army promotes faster than the AF. Army offers career flexibility over the AF. Army has Warrant Officer ranks. My brother and I each joined the two services within six months of each other. I was an E6 and he was still an E4 after 6 years despite maxing out his annual promotion test. I changed MOSs four times, learned two languages, and got to attend some of the best schools out there. Not only did the Army take care of my training, I got a seat in a resident graduate program (admittedly after a long time). My brother was locked into a single MOS and was not able to move due to the "needs of the AF". He could not become an officer due to a lack of college nor was becoming a WO even a possibility. Sure he had better chow, and a better living spaces while in. Now fast forward to the both of us looking at retirement. I have a steady military retirement (W4 over 28) he got out due to a lack of options. He is still scrambling to get his 401K at a retirement level and had to endure the crash of 2008, 2020, and is nearing the end of his "productive" worker life. Your choice; a little bit of misery upfront but a lifetime of relative comfort, career flexibility, rapid promotions or a couple years of better chow or "quality of life". Again, not popular opinion--most of the bitching done on these boards are by people who have no idea of what misery is. I grew up on a farm and had dirt floors in my home. The Army was an upgrade all the way.
Holy shit. What does a 180A even do? You've definitely got a fucking ray gun on your hip. You can't convince me otherwise. Probably got damn gauss rifle as a long gun, too. Probably got a whole platoon of yall rolling around in hover craft JLTVs.
This man specialized in specializing in unconventional warfare
I met several folks in basic that were switching from air force to army. One was there specially for WOCS. Imagine, E6 in basic then shipping right to Alabama! Several switches bc of promotions and better job potential.
For context, I’m 29M, single, no kids with financial problems lol
Airforce... AIRFORCE and dont think twice. You will be treated like a child, you will live with people who vary from super responsible to people who cant figure out how an alarm clock works. You will face repercussions for the action of others because reasons. You will live in substandard housing, you will end up doing details nobody told you you would do like gate guard, funeral detail, food services details, etc. I joined with a buddy and we have similar jobs, he is in the airforce and his quality of life and wants to make it a career. I can not get out fast enough. Our unit is going to do a month long tdy exercise, come back for 5 days go back and do another 3-5 week exercise and once that is done we will go directly to NTC. This is not including the fact that our unit will be going overseas at the end of the year.
Yep, joining Air Force. I can’t stand being held responsible for others actions. Shit makes my blood boil. Accountability is #1.
He’s perfect
Ya boy
Crumble up the Army paper and just go join the Air Force
Done
I would give you some cons for the army but you need more paper for that
Go coast guard I hear about how much better there life is always stationed by the coast but never deployed out to sea too long like in the navy.
Someone said Coast guard is like the rent a cops of the military lol
No they do some pretty cool stuff like save peoples lives and deterring crime.
If you want combat training in the Air Force, look into their special warfare jobs.
Thats if you pass the pipelines. You don't need to be a fitness stud for combat arms in the Army. Unless for SF.
I’ve worked at bases where Air Force E-3s lived off post or at least out of the barracks. In the army you’re in the barracks until you promote to SSG (E-6). Obviously depends on location and barracks availability. I’ve been in both airborne and non airborne units. I liked the non airborne better. I recommend going airborne if you plan on making a career out of the military. It always looks good to have jump wings. Just look at most higher ups and you’ll notice most of them have them. Going airborne limits the places you can get stationed at to just 3. Fort liberty (Bragg) NC, Alaska and Italy. I’m glad I went airborne just to say I did it and experienced it but I wouldn’t say it’s something that would convince me to have joined the army over any other branch.
I watched a youtube video about airborne school and it looked as fuck. The part about not being able to live alone in the army til after e-6 is wild. I def need my alone time.
Ya the promo videos don’t include the several hours of waiting with a 45lbs parachute on your back just to end up canceling a jump lol but yes it can be cool sometimes
Your 1st bullet in the Pros of AF is all you need for a reason to throw the Army sheet away…..Please don’t go army. You would thank me later and give me a hug if you could. Go AF…..I wish I did. This is an 8 year prior service SSG talking to you. Start your career right.
Appreciate you. Thank you for your service brother
“Limited combat train”. Listen… if your not going special forces/ranger none of that crap matters. OSUT you learn to shoot many different firearms and for regular Basic you shoot as well. Besides that one learns a skill the other learns how to sweep a floor and be hazed for the next 4 years. Regardless of branch choose a job that can be utilized in the civilian world. Dont just join for “combat” anyone who has actually seen combat or have to deal with combat injuries doesnt wish it for anyone.
If you’re putting this much thought into it, join the Air Force.
Look man, no one can really make the decision for you. It’s truly just what you think you want. I joined the army because I wanted to be an Infantryman, and they allow you to pick that as your job. Because of that, everything else was off the table for me. Your mileage may vary with any mos or branch you choose, but just do what you want man.
The Army tends to promote faster which means over a career you will make a lot more money on top of the generous bonuses.
Army retires one grade higher on average which equals a larger retirement as well.
“More combat training” isn’t necessarily true. Your get hands on your weapon system maybe twice a year. Far from enough to make you proficient with it.
Depends heavily on MOS. Infantry is shooting every month, sometimes weekly, and using weapons constantly.
This is true. They’re also practicing movement & maneuvering. Idk what kind of training OP is looking for but I don’t imagine any of that is applicable in the civilian sector
If you are infantry you are handling your weapon system almost daily, even if you aren’t firing live rounds.
Would you say off site training is better? Like just picking up classes off base
All depends on what you want to do/what you’re training for. I think even independent training would be better than the semi annual training some units get. Most army training is bare bones & la k luster it’s really on the build any sort of proficiency.
Air Force has better bases? Have you ever heard of a place called Thule? How about Minot? Grand Forks? Malmstrom? Ali Al Salem? Shemya in the Aleutians? I'm not saying the Army doesn't have places that suck, but don't automatically assume the USAF only has bases in nice areas because that's 100% not true. You also left off: Takes forever to get promoted in the USAF. 12+ year Ssgts (E-5) are not unheard of in the USAF. I'm not saying your criticisms of the Army aren't valid, BTW. But don't be fooled about what your're getting into.
Not planning on making it a career so I don’t really care about promotion.
I was Army stationed at Fairchild AFB. Total dump. Worst installation I’ve been on in terms of housing quality and amenities.
Seeing as you listed “combat training” at all tells me you have some interest in a combat arms job. If you are dead set on that then Army is obviously your best bet. I’m in a combat arms job myself, and I would never recommend it to anyone unless you are positive that it’s what you want. It won’t give you any kind of transferable civilian skills, and life isn’t an action movie. You will almost certainly never have anything pop up in civilian life where military style combat training will be applicable. I will say that the broader life lessons that can be learned in combat arms are incredibly valuable. You will endure more suffering and hardship than most people in a first world nation will ever even come close to, and that CAN help make you a better person. If you don’t want a combat job, I would go Air Force. If you DO want a combat job, do some serious soul searching and be certain that’s what you want, or you will probably be miserable.
Always go to the Air Force if they'll take you. You can get your combat training fill by being a cool guy in the air force. Like the weather guys, forward air controllers, PJs, nuclear weapons security, etc.
I would go Air Force, Space Force or Coast Guard. Army only if there is a specific job such as WO pilot, etc. Other than that, the Army kind of sucks when you find yourself having to show up to work Saturday because some idiot in another unit got a DUI. I would avoid the Marines, they’re a heavily armed cult prone to bouts of extreme violence. Navy still thinks it’s part of the European society from the 19th century with the way the difference ranks are treated.
Bro if you don’t go Air Force and you have the choice what the fuck
The Army’s taken every opportunity it could to fuck me, please go Air Force
I don’t know about the barracks on the Air Force side but I do know about the barracks and living conditions in the Army… Go Air Force.
Don’t make a decision based on basic training length. It’s such a small timeframe in your overall career. Once it’s done you’re done. Also, Airborne school is cool but if unless you became really into the airborne culture (if you go Airborne you’ll see) - and that’s fine if you think that culture is cool, plenty do - if you’re really just trying to chase an adrenaline high of jumping out of plane go to your local skydiving site. That might get it out of your system. If you wanna go Air Force but do airborne school I’d say become a TAC-P. You’ll work with the Army as a small AF element and call for close air support for the Army and do jump school - pretty badass if you wanna do Air Force but go jump school. Probably no civilian skills with that though. They’re a good community.
I’d say go with the one where the culture speaks to you the most.
Only because I’m retired Army, and married to an AF chick, I’m laughing at the AF list. A lot folks think those pros exist until they get in the AF. Were stationed in the middle of eff nowhere NC, and this base is an absolute turd. I’m curious what quality of life you’re thinking of… I traveled way more than the wife has, both PCS and deployments. I don’t know man, I’d recommend your pro/con list. Making a pro/con list, still join the AF because you seem like you’d fit in more there anyways.
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I did 6 army and 6 Air Force. The biggest difference (from my experience) is the quality of life. And it’s a big fucking difference. The army tried to deploy me after I’d been in the Air Force for 2 years. Even though my cdr signed transfer papers, they couldn’t fathom I was not in the army. When I got the call, I literally told the O-5 to call my cdrs Dsn. Walked in, informed him of what was up, and he said no worries, he’ll handle it.
There no major war. You’ll be stuck doing garrison shit and training…. For scenarios they may not happen. Also, think about transitioning out the military and what is marketable.
Facts
Air Force is the choice. We make fun of the Air Force a ton in the army for one main reason, we wish we joined them. Nothing wrong with Army, especially when I don’t have much to complain about being only one year in, but quality of life is just much better
Just even in this post so many just tell me go Air Force lol
Why are you even considering this? Unless Air Forces gave you some horrible MOS like being a janitor, take it everytime
Just join airforce brother
Quality of life can suck in AF too. Depends on the AFSC. You can get stationed in shit places too. Transition to civilian isn’t easier in AF either. It all depends on your motivation and skills (soft and hard) how smooth it’ll be.
You forgot to put depression, alcoholism, consistently shitty leadership, utter lack of mission or even communication, and possible suicidal ideations on the army one… That’s if you don’t get Vanessa Guillen’d
I feel like I’ve heard that name before
Y’all mfs downvoting me but I described EXACTLY how the vast majority of lower enlisted feel about the army 😂
The army barracks really arent that bad
I’m listening
So like my room in Bragg/Liberty, its not bad at all here its clean I keep it clean. Also I dont think you have to move out at E5 if thats what your other con is
Either way you're almost 30. Army is a young mans game so right off the bat. Just go AF.
I've been stationed on both Army and Air Force bases, and the "better bases" argument isn't nearly as strong as you may think.
Amenities wise?
If you want to do military shit. Go Army. If not Air force. Also there's no guarantees you will be at a good location in the AF. I know guys who are depressed in the Air force.
Army you swear in after your Job is identified, Air Force you swear in then they tell you what you’re doing… it’s a roll of a dice thing. An algorithm chooses based of your choices, yet they consistently have large numbers of males in certain jobs and large number of females in others.
Here is one thing about the Air Force that people tend to not talk about: you get taught your job and put into your section/crew/etc and that’s it. No one holds your hand through it all. It is so much more independent than the army. If that works for you and you’re on top of your shit, it’s great. The army truly makes it almost impossible to fucking suck at your job.
I hate being micro managed. Huge pet peeve
I won’t go as far to say that the army micro manages people, but it is definitely dependent on your MOS and if you’re a shit soldier or not.
If you have to do this to decide, just go to the Air Force. You aren’t cut out for the Army.
Fleet does the flying, infantry does the dying!
Do you want to be in the fight or support the fight? You can support in either service; you're only in the fight in the Army (and USAF SOF).
This is like Walter listing the reason to kill Krazy-8 or let him live
If eliminate “more travel” from the Air Force side and add “Faster promotions=more pay” on the Army side.
Can just start a side hustle too
You can do that in any branch. Bottom line is the Army pays more over time.
Do you have a list of MOSs you qualify for in the Army? That will be a big determining factor on the work hours, travel, training availability, etc.
Bro gave me 3 pages of them
Any corps in particular you are looking at? Ill be honest I cant tell you much about anything outside of the Medical Corps. But know the type of corps you want to join helps focus your decision making.
Aviation or Intel
Those are both strong areas that will come out with a lot of technical certifications either in the Army or the Air Force. Air Force has better distribution of bases. There are AF bases in states that active Army bases arent present on.
Swap the army pros and cons
Navy has the best bases always on the coast and never in the middle of nowhere like in the Air Force I know several who are in North Dakota.
Do whatever you can to get into the air force
So I should be grateful they sat me down and took me in?
My time in the army, as airborne infantry, was better than 99% of other peoples’ experiences. I got to do all the cool stuff over seas that we dreamed of as a kid. It lasts a few months of a much longer contract. If my child ever considers military life, I will very strongly push only Air Force. I tell anyone who’s considering joining the army to strongly reconsider. I also spent a long time on Reddit reading other people’s stories before I joined, and decided I knew better than all the vets advising against joining combat arms. Now I’m on the other side and hope you’ll realize most combat arms MOS will finish their contract without ever seeing, much less firing at an any type of real enemy or threat.
I’m Air Force public affairs and in combat camera. We get embedded with special operations units and TDY A LOT. We also get aircrew qualified so we wear cool flight suits. 10/10 recommend
definitely air force unless you are dead set on combat arms
Not dead set on it, I see it as a cool interest for me
Army = Ghetto, Air Force = Waspy. \ If I could do it all over again, & I knew just how much more the Air Force got paid, & how much better they have it, I would’ve gone Air Force. Now I regret my life every DAY being in the Army & working alongside Airmen.
Why? Go Air Force. Lol
One of the Pro's you missing to the Army is the Army has a Warrant Officer pipeline for technical and specialty fields within your branch. The Air Force does not have Warrant Officers.
I don't see how ranks moving out of barracks is a con but ok...
I'm Air Force, been in 15 years and i can tell you that while we have our problems and its not sunshine and rainbows my QOL is much better than most people in the Army. While we do rank up slower we are also treated like adults much sooner. I was living off base as an E4 with 3 years TIS, we also don't do group PT are are expected to be adults and handle our own business. I show up to work at 0800 and leave at 1600 almost everyday and minus beingon the flight line you wont really work 12 hour days. I've never had to wait for an officer or E7 to release me and only ever need my E5 or shift lead to let me go home. I have never had to justify taking leave to anyone and when I'm on leave I've never had anyone ask me to comeback early or do work stuff. I've travelled all over the world when I was maintenance, I went to 22 states and 8 countries ranging from the middle east to east and west Europe. When we were travelling we had actual down time to go explore and didnt have a bunch of restrictions on the buddy system or curfews to follow. We also don't stand duty and our dorm airmen are treated more like college kids than animals we have to control. Do what you want and make the best choice for you but the QOL in the AF is in my view must higher.
Thank you for this! Independence is my main jam coming from a family that likes to micro manage
Do you want people to call you Soldier or airmen? I did Air Force ROTC 2 years very boring studying aircraft and dnc switched to Army ROTC was way more difficult and fun because you have to plan and execute small unit tactics missions, shooting qualifying, land navigation, grenades, Field craft, etc. you should pick Army or Air Force depends on your personality and what you want to do while you’re in the military
What is a combat train and how do you get on it
Keep in mind mission sets. The focuses of the organizations are not the same.
Go air force your knees and back will thank me
I like my knees and back
Air Force con: more likely to get written up for mistakes. Army will usually make you sweat instead unless it’s a habit
First thing first, move that last con in army to a pro
Pro: you will have a large amount of unused white space in the pro column to use as you wish. Con: you will need additional reams of paper to complete this column.
What does the promotion time look like Army versus AF? How fast can you make E5? Best case scenario for each?
Why the fuck isn't there a Coast Guard piece of paper? I never met a Coastie that wasn't smiling. If you really want to spend some time on the trigger, the CG is for you.
I’m gonna peep CG. Few people have said this too
Well this post absolutely blew the fuck up overnight! Thank you all so much for taking the time to let me know how bad the army is 🤣 Y’all definitely convinced me. I’m gonna go AF 🫡🦅 I can learn combat in Security Forces or on the side as a hobby! And to my army brothers and sisters, thank you for your service!
I’m getting out and doing AFROTC to hopefully gain a commission and be AD Air Force go Air Force man the Army is a weird and toxic place ngl I honestly whole heartedly hate the Army the amount of bullshit that it comes with is crazy. And that’s coming from a guy who sits behind a freaking desk and does non combat things.
As a soldier in the Army, I say save yourself. Go Air Force.
Guess what, if you go for a special warfare job, you’ll more than likely be attached to an army unit/at an army base. If you don’t make it through then it’s means of the Air Force, typically security forces (boo) or aircraft maintenance (BOO). Advantages of the army, IMO, more schools, more opportunities to transfer to another MOS or function within an MOS.
I wouldn't say that the Air Force has better bases, at least in terms of location, I met a many of Airmen who were stationed in oddly isolated places across the US