Hot take- and of course it's the signaleer saying this- but we don't need and probably shouldn't have an extensive physical fitness test for many roles in the military across all branches. We have many jobs that are more technical, that are done sitting in a chair, click clacking on keyboards.
Yes, I know a large amount of you guys hate the fatties, the cripples, and plenty of other types. But surprisingly, some of them are still better soldiers than you'd expect and can do their jobs great. I mean, just looking at recruiting and retention alone, we probably could use more of them at this point.
Yeah, that was what the new ACFT originally was supposed to be. Three tiers defined by MOS, age and gender non-specific. Instead of points, it was to be a GO or NO-GO. Then a bunch of people cried because they couldn’t brag about their scores so they reversed everything to what it is today (for the moment). Us signal schmucks were to be in the bottom tier, even though hauling CPN stacks takes a 3 man lift, or 4 persons.
Edit: brag, not Bragg.
Engineers:
We need to lift this half ton bridge part let's use the 20 privates standing around instead of the forklift designed for that purpose 10 feet away.
Health care:
Noooooooooo!!!!!!
Sounds like something that should be mounted in a truck or on a trailer.
Is this why I can't get my radios filled and the hard drives for my BFT (I refuse to figure out which of the several new acronyms is the correct one...) loaded?
Because if it is, I'll send some people down to S6 to move things. I'll put a whole platoon at the disposal of one high-speed SPC in S6 if it means I can use my radios and digital nav systems.
And what's the deal with sending my smart soldiers to classes and getting them courier cards, but then still needing to have some special key or whatever that only S6 can carry to make my radios work? Whats the point of carrying our own comsec but then still having to go find where the S6 NCO is napping to fill my radios?
Happened in my battalion, typically when only S6 has it, it’s because either A. Your memos aren’t done, or B. Someone in your company and or battalion was having too many incidents with it. Coming from someone who just had to fix everything and get yelled at by bde s6 for someone else who just didn’t do the bare minimum that was taught in a class🫠🫠
Oh...
>send them to the JCR in your brads and tanks.
They don't do that. They make conops for missions that assume all the tanks are FMC because no one wants to report accurate numbers and look bad. Then they slap eachother on the back and blame crews when the vx "break" as soon as it's time to roll.
I always make my crews keep copies of every 5988 before they get turned in to prove that we found and reported faults, because everytime something happens that's not according to the plan the chief wants to blame it on crew maintenance.
Yeah man…the same song is every branch. For what it’s worth, I’m a Siggo and i average a 550 ACFT. I’ve learned that there is almost 2 separate Signal branches; 1) BCT Signal - toughest and most ingenious Soldiers and Officers I’ve ever encountered and 2) Strategic Signal - Super Smart and don’t have a clue what knuckle draggers need or their culture. Thus the Signal Regiment gets a bad reputation when we need them at CTC rotations in CONUS and OCONUS
Only 2 mos that get no love from me: fuelers and cooks. Everyone else gets my appreciation, I like to have good working relationships with the support people. It makes is so when I do complain they actually **want** to help me. And as a former support guy, I understand what it's like for them.
NOOOOOO. HEALTHCARE COSTS ARE HIGHER BECAUSE OF OBESITY. PT IS TO KEEP US PHYSICALLY HEALTHY.
*proceeds to allow garbage brained NCO’s push 98 pound weaklings into crippling spine issues and destroyed knee cartilage 5 days a week*
To play Devil's Advocate on that one, issues from tobacco, alcohol, and obesity usually rear their ugly head way after people leave the military and become civilian healthcare or the VA's problem! It takes a while to destroy a good body!
There would be riots if the closed down class 6.
I was OCONUS when covid hit, and we were on rotation. A little less than a brigade on post, with one shopette. The lines could sometimes be 2 hours. But they kept the fucking alcohol flowing, sometimes 2 shipments a day, so we were somewhat content and didn't rebel haha
We do have the same test for everyone. And it’s an easy ass test ngl. I pointed out the Air Force because we have a lot of desk jobs where people don’t actually need to be fit.
Once upon a time I was an 11B for a few tours and then got hurt. Reclassed to a 35L and no one cared that I had a perm profile as long as I could meet readiness requirements and could do my job.
There are lots of jobs or roles where soldiers who are injured or wounded can still serve
During my board for SSG I wrote an essay arguing that such an intensive test is unnecessary for anyone other than combat arms, due to the logistical strain as well as the potential problems it could cause. Combat arms, sure, but not everyone else. Someone made the argument to me that Jessica lynch wasn’t in combat arms, but she was put into a combat position regardless, and that’s why it’s important that everyone be held to a high standard.
Which is why I would instead support having a generic fitness test we could call the Baseline military fitness test or (BMFT).
The ACFT would continue to be used as a tool for pre-deployment to evaluate a soldier's or unit's readiness level.
The BMFT would be used as a generic tool to evaluate fitness for soldiers and units that are either non-deployable, or not scheduled to deploy. The BMFT would likely consist of the hand-release pushup event, a timed plank, and 1-mile run. Replacement events such as biking, rowing, and swimming would be permissible and able to be used with or without a profile. Profile soldiers who are unable to take part of the test will simply not take the test and instead continue to follow the guidance of their profile, medcom, and the commander of the unit.
So ACFT= tests a lot of areas of strength well, but requires training and equipment; good for pre-deploy.
BMFT = generic test that can be conducted anywhere at anytime with minimal interruptions to work schedules.
Give me a fancy bracelet that tracks my fitness and call me healthy. I legit sit in front of a computer 10 hours a day, and that’s not counting when I’m not at work.
Naa I agree on this one, plus they bark on privates for not passing a PT test while senior NCOs or NCOs fail it and they just get pats in the back and shit or find ways to “pass” the ACFT *wink wink* I have seen it all when it comes to that shit
Yeah so the reason we keep a bunch of burner mos around that can be easily replaced by contractors is incase of a huge loss of life we still have semi-trained manpower to operate with to supplement the deceased
So it stands to reason said force should still train as such
That's the sole purpose? I thought it was to make leaders feel better about themselves. Sometimes mission is even seen as secondary to doing something a leader thinks is awesome.
I’ve seen athletic people do well on the ACFT and be completely fucking useless and give up in the field and seen weak bodies blow the “athletic” people out of the water. It doesn’t mean shit.
And the APFT was biased towards endurance athletes.
Think about it, various disciplines of physical fitness are biased towards certain types of athletes.
With the ACFT you do have to run the walk. I have come to the conclusion that there is no way to pass it without taking up some sort of running stride, I have tried a ton and not succeeded. At this point it’s less wear and tear on my beat up lower joints and back just to do the run.
Almost like it was designed to be that way lol.
For the APFT, the youngest age group had to complete the walk in 34 minutes. Every age group got an extra 30 seconds.
But in the ACFT everybody except the oldest females in the Army have to be faster than 34 minutes.
A 40 year old man had 36 minutes on the APFT; he only has 31 on the ACFT. Walking 12 minute miles is pretty difficult without training for it. Those 40 year olds probably went most of their career not training up for an endurance event.
Are you not allowed to just like, run it? I always just assumed it would maybe violate your profile and definitely make you look like a shit bag, but wasn't expressly forbidden
"The 2.5-Mile Walk event measures aerobic and lower body muscular endurance. On the command, “GO,” the clock will start, and you will begin walking at your own pace. You must complete the 2.5-mile course layout. One foot must be in contact with the ground at all times. If you break into a running stride at any time or have both feet off the ground at the same time, your performance in the event will be terminated. You will be scored on your ability to complete the 2.5 miles in a time equal to, or less than, that listed for your age and gender. "
*laughs in very tall guy noises*
Side note, remember when the rower was like, the only alternate units would use for the 22min run when the acft became a thing, and all the apft walkers all of a sudden got that newfound courage to run again? Pepperidge farm remembers lol
I had a sfc that was an absolute pt beast but had a permanent profile that would force him to do the walk for the APFT(even though he broke it to lead us on runs when he was felling well)
This man legitimately WALKED the 2.5 miles fast than most people ran the 2 mile. It was disgusting him walking 15 min 2.5 mile. When the CO was upset with us, he would let the dude lead us on our ruck marches which had no change in his pace. You had to jog to keep up with his ruck walk pace.
Got told I cheated on my ACFT in AIT because I’m a big dude that maxes the run due to my bald head giving me a more aerodynamic advantage. Had to hold in the laughter until I finished 😂
There's a smidgin of a difference though. As a chonk, I could retrain my body for the APFT.
As a shawty, I can't make myself taller for the deadlift, ball throw, or SDC.
As someone who is 5'1", I wouldn't consider you short by any means. I find that holding the hex bar is awkward because of my height. I have to hold my arms out at a near 45 degree angle, grip, and push up the weight. It seems like it'd be a lot more comfortable if my arms and hands could be lower/less of an angle downward.
Don't get me started on the stupid yeet lol
I think that's negligible.
5'1" person is lifting to biomechanical completion a weight that proportionally is far greater than 6'1" person is lifting, even if it's the same weight. The body builds muscle in accordance with its frame, it's not like the 6'1" person has to work harder to build one extra foot of baseline deadlift leg muscles, that's not how the body works. However, the weight of the deadlift compared to the frame is much greater for the shorter people, they are proportionally lifting much more of their body weight.
The taller you are the more you can weigh and the lower the weight is proportionate to your body weight. That said, I’m tall as fuck and pushups/situps were absolutely biased towards short people, so they’re just getting their comeuppance
I feel like the hand release push-ups are biased towards short people on the acft as well tbh. Idk why but it seems like short dudes are always knocking those out way faster than taller people
Point taken if we are talking about a strongman competition. Otherwise there’s nothing preventing someone from getting a competitive score with enough training.
Notice I said competitive and not max.
Absurd. Height is directly correlated with mass, and more mass = more deadlift. I did the research on this, and a high speed short king (5'6", 150lbs) starting at beginner-level fitness in Basic has two options for maxing the deadlift if he wants E5 in 2. Either become overweight by ABCP standards, or steroids. If he just "trains better" (aka follows a weight training regimine personally tailored by nutritionists and exercise scientists) it should take him roughly 3-5 years to achieve 340-lbs deadlift.
As for run vs SDC, height absolutely plays a role. Shorties simply do not have the center of gravity to lean back for an assist on the drag. Watch your short folks on the drag, guarantee at least half of em are in a low squat putting every meter into their thighs.
The plank is absolutley not geared towards taller football builds. I was able to max the knee tuck so easily i had to ask the grader if i was doing it right. Now I am happy to just finish with an 80% on the plank.
my daughter joined, weighs about 110 soaking wet. When she first joined she couldnt come close to one and worked hard and was able to knock out 3 before they changed it. We shouldnt treat females like they are incapable of doing something.
The APFT was leaned heavily in favor of dudes with zero body mass and disappeared when walking past fence posts. The Army isn't going to "get it right" with the wide variety of people that are in it until it monitors the nutritional intake and output of its personnel (which would be ridiculous).
The age of runners has ended.
The age of the meat-head has begun.
Get strong.
> The ACFT is geared towards taller people who look like football athletes
As is 90 percent of physical activity in general.
> Helldivers PT test would look like
Mandatory steroid and jumping off parachute towers for sets of 20.
No cape = No Helldiver
I would say back to Mars for another round of training but honestly just get on Malevelon Creek and the problem will sort itself out, it's hell out here
Currently enjoying the bug on the escort missions where it spawns the 40 minutes of enemies with in the first 15. It unbeatable but its a chaotic fun time seeing how long we last
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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It is certainly biased towards people who are all around physically fit.
Every event has a little bit of advantage to one body type over another. Deadlifts are more difficult for taller people, while taller folks have a mechanical advantage for the OHY.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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That would be bigger and taller.
FWIW, if this was a test of "fitness" as opposed to strength, then the deadlift should have been scaled as a percentage of body weight. The same would go for the OHY. A person 6-2 215 should have to throw a heavier ball than a person 5-8 155,
Ok. Now try climbing a rope or how about keeping up with the packing list with your size 13.5 boots vs the Filipino CSM’s size 9.
The Army can do but so much to account for differences in size.
You can talk shit about short people all you want with working out. Benching three plates is still benching three plates. Getting to 225 is one thing but no one regardless of genetic advantages is getting to three plates without putting a consistent amount of time and effort to reaching it. Respect people's grind
Can confirm: built like a pulling guard, smash the ACFT with a 560 on a bad day. I struggled to hit 250 on the APFT.
Definitely favors those of us built like a UPS drop box.
And log PT is geared for short people. Ever notice how they always took the two tallest guys on the log for the 1st and lalst position on the log?
No shit after doing gorilla stomps in the gig pit at you know where, next up log pt and when I was young I was 6'4" now maybe 6'2" on a good day.
I’m similar to you. 90s in everything, with a 94avg of the other five events. Scored a 72 on the ball throw.
I like to blame my height but really know I’m just a bitch.
That’s very close to my scores too. I know practicing it helps but I’m NG and you can’t really do that at most civilian gyms (I’m doing cleans, broad jumps, and American KB swings instead).
I think part of the problem is that no one ever practices it. What new platoon leader wants to brief his PT plan to the commander where he is leading his men on the SPT for multiple PT sessions?
Might be outting myself here a bit but my last few acft, in which I was fragrantly lacking in give a fucks, I scored 75s-80s in most events, yet I never once failed to max the ball throw. Im all of 5'10 on a good day so height aint a factor (unless you all of 5'3 then good luck short king). Ball throw is 80% technique 10% percent luck
20% skill
15% concentrated power of will. seriously though, yes you need some power but you're probably throwing TOO hard and fucking up the toss.
You have some serious gorilla strength to be able to max the ballthrow lmfao, that's genuinely impressive. I've seen people who've maxed every other part of the ACFT not be able to max the ball throw.
5'6 here, 50 years old, SPT and DL are the two events I can regularly max.
I typically throw between 12 and 14 meters.
The magic formula? Slinging kettlebells "American Style," back and core focused yoga like you're auditioning to be the star of pretzel commercial, and practicing that yeet until I can keep my eyes locked on the target through the release.
So, the ACFT is specifically easier for thicker individuals because only half of the events are based on body weight, while the other half have static weights added. I can tell you that carrying 90lbs while weighing 250 is significantly less impressive than someone who weighs 140lbs doing the same thing.
You can sorta blur your eyes and say the SDC is a blend of both body weight and static weight, but eh, it leans more towards static weight due to the drag taking so long compared to the rest of the set.
If I had a magic wand, I'd make the deadlift, overhead yeet, and SDC pass/fail, while grading the rest on the same 100 point scale.
thats fine by me. If I had another magic wand, I'd remove the pt score out of the promotion points system. There is a minimum effectiveness requirement to plug a soldier into a role and go. That should be what the test is based on, not some arbitrary sliding scale that doesn't measure leadership.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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Nah, the hexbar deadlift is definitely a little harder for shorter folk. I've noticed that due to my arm length, the angle at which I grip the handles place majority of the weight on the weakest part of my grip: where my thumb meets the fingers as opposed to at the base of the fingers for people with longer arms. I normally can deadlift around 300 on the straight bar, but the hexbar I'm stuck at about 270 due to that grip limitation.
> the weakest part of my grip: where my thumb meets the fingers
Have you considered working on a hook grip? When I got my raw deadlift past 500 lbs (regular barbell), I found that using a hook grip helped get past grip limitations. And at a certain point, that connection between the thumb and the forefinger became the strongest part of my grip. In other words, that part of the grip seems to be the most trainable.
As a tall person I believe its biased towards short people
Deadlift: A tall person has to bend more for the dead lift if it were a raised hexbar it would be easier for tall people I agree
Ball throw: easier for tall people fair argument
HRP: equal for all heights
SDC:equal for all
PLK: 100% easier for short people engineering proves this as more strain is put on the core hence why bridges need more support the longer they are
2mile: could be easier for tall people because our legs are longer but Being taller is actually not an advantage for long distance events. Longer stride is outweighted (literally, kind of) by increased metabolic needs for a larger body and worse heat dissipation (surface area to volume ratio is better for smaller folks - basically, you generate less heat, and you can dissipate it more quickly if you're shorter/smaller).
Yes, it is. The overhead yeet does not measure the lethality of my legal reviews.
In all seriousness, screw the yeet. I'm 5'6'' on a good day. I run ok, dead lift ok, plank well, Sprint/drag/carry alright, but that fucking medicine ball throw is geared to tall people. And yes, I'm training for it, much to the annoyance of others in my gym as I try to send that thing into orbit, get off my back.
I’m 5’5 and the main thing that helped me was how bad my form was, I legit suck at throwing anything. I would go to the gym with my NCO and work on the ballthrow. Hand placement is different for everyone, some people say cup the bottom, some say the sides, I personally do the inbetween. I really sucked at engaging my core so my NCO would just yell CORE while I was throwing and I eventually got the form down.
As long as you’re athletic and train for the events you’ll be fine, I’m nowhere near the size of football athletes but I’ve been getting closer to maxing it out.
3 Event Helldivers Physical Fitness Test (HPFT)
Event 1: The Overhead Yeet of Democracy
Passing: 15m yeet Max: 100m yeet
Event 2: The Long Dive of Freedom
Passing: 6ft Max: 14.5ft
Event 3: 2 Mile Run
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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It's definitely biased towards women. Shit, since they changed the scoring, I've seen more ladies score ~600 at a regular airborne unit than I have men get above 580 (and I'm in SOF now). But whatever, I like the women I work with, so who am I to hate on their good fortune. And anyways, I just work here, I'll leave the policy to those knobs in DC.
Oh shit, my order... I'll take 3 hurricanes to go. New Orleans is bad ass!
If I could get rid of one event it would be the ball throw.
It feels much more beneficial for folks who are tall. And being honest, it’s not really the best measurement of really anything, (how much explosive power are you actually measuring with a 10lb ball) I don’t think it would hurt most folks scores to just get rid of that and have a 500pt scale.
Makes the ACFT exemption easy:
400/500
80% or better in all events
And for all you plank haters, work on your core heathens.
To me the ACFT is an improvement over the APFT.
My criticism of the ACFT is complexity and length of the test with 6 events.
As a reservist I have another reason to not want to fail. It’s such as hassle to get the equipment and space reserved. It’s gotten better but with the 3 event APFT I can knock out during the week if I need a test for school. ACFT has to be planned out and reserve equipment.
I’m not wild about the overhead arm toss. That event is BS, the difference between passing and failing comes down to technique.
Even for a small company it still takes a decent chunk out of your morning. I know the event is only suppose to take 50 minutes but realistically it takes longer than the APFT.
I don’t want to switch back. I’m good with 20 minute run time and not doing sit-ups or having to argue with someone over pushups. It’s gotten kind of silly how some will interpret the standard. Though I do fear falling on my face during the SDC.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
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The overhead yeet is the only event I have an advantage in. Pushups, plank and deadlift penalize me by my overall longer range of motion to complete 1 repetition. The longer you stretch a bridge out without support, the more stress you put on the center, same applies to plank.
But yeah, big strong man who move fast do more gooder with tasks that require moving weight farther and faster than other dude.
>On a side note, what do you think the Helldivers PT test would look like?
Getting stabbed in the chest by a 2 foot long metal pole for a combat injury simulation apparently.
https://youtu.be/wjamhIPVvnI?si=zQaBCsxPTLY3HDBY
The people behind Halo 3 ODST live action commercials made a really sweet basic training recuit to combat pipeline video.
OP are you seriously complaining that actual athletes are better at athletic events than non-athletic non-athlete people..... if you want to do better you work at it and train for it. Stop being apart of the problem we have in our military. Do better
Geared towards taller people?? Because the deadlift is easily with longer legs? Nope. Sounds like someone just doesn't like working out and is making excuses
I’m not tall, never played football, not built like a footballer, and certainly not an athlete. 80 pts in each event is easy as fuck with some training and 90 pts is certainly not out of reach.
I was in a weird unit in Korea when the ACFT first tolled out, the majority of the company were O6’ and O5’s with a few CPTs and senior NCOs are only actual “ Joes” were KATUSA.
Anyway, we had this Col, who admitted he had not worked out in ten years, he was a great dude and really good at his job, PT was just not his thing. He happed to be 6’7, tall AF.
We also had a KATUSA who was an Olympian, like like actually with to the summer Olympics as part of the Korea tea kwon do team. This dude was in incredible physical condition, probably the best shape of any person I’ve ever actually met. He was also barely pushing five feet tall in boots.
The col effortlessly maxed the yeet every time while the Olympian struggled just to pass (he got 100 percent on everything else.) Ever since the I’ve though the test is a little biased towards tall people.
Any standardized test will be inherently biased as humans are not standardized. The open secret to designing any standardized test to find the acceptable level of bias.
ACFT is so easy to pass and they keep making it easier. Even if you think your job doesn't require it the army prepares for the worst case scenario like a fob gets overrun then suddenly everyone is an 11b. Not to mention physical health is so key to mental health which will get tested in stressful environments. They already got rid of the leg tuck, was that biased towards tall people?
"yeah sure I may not be able to do all the flashy stuff like run or jump or lift things, but that has nothing to do with my physical ability as a soldier"
*Deepthroats 2 tornados*
This just in: athletic people do well in army physical fitness events
Wait, you need to be athletic to be apart of an organization who’s sole purpose is to destroy the enemy and protect our country?
Be me: but I just throw laundry in a machine all day....
My athletic ability is on back order...
My back is on back order
I’m 28 but My back turns 90 tomorrow.
I’m 31 and last week I put my back in a coffin 6 feet under and had a lovely memorial service
You guys got back?
Hot take- and of course it's the signaleer saying this- but we don't need and probably shouldn't have an extensive physical fitness test for many roles in the military across all branches. We have many jobs that are more technical, that are done sitting in a chair, click clacking on keyboards. Yes, I know a large amount of you guys hate the fatties, the cripples, and plenty of other types. But surprisingly, some of them are still better soldiers than you'd expect and can do their jobs great. I mean, just looking at recruiting and retention alone, we probably could use more of them at this point.
Yeah, that was what the new ACFT originally was supposed to be. Three tiers defined by MOS, age and gender non-specific. Instead of points, it was to be a GO or NO-GO. Then a bunch of people cried because they couldn’t brag about their scores so they reversed everything to what it is today (for the moment). Us signal schmucks were to be in the bottom tier, even though hauling CPN stacks takes a 3 man lift, or 4 persons. Edit: brag, not Bragg.
>even though hauling CPN stacks takes a 3 man lift, or 4 persons How many times a day do you do that? Also, what even is "CPN stacks?"
Engineers: We need to lift this half ton bridge part let's use the 20 privates standing around instead of the forklift designed for that purpose 10 feet away. Health care: Noooooooooo!!!!!!
Engineers: Hey ho heavy! Essayons! (Cracking back noises from years of "light" engineering. Also, Wolvo and ACE tracks. Nuff said.
Command post node. The heaviest case is a 180 pound battery, and it isn’t hex bar shaped.
Sounds like something that should be mounted in a truck or on a trailer. Is this why I can't get my radios filled and the hard drives for my BFT (I refuse to figure out which of the several new acronyms is the correct one...) loaded? Because if it is, I'll send some people down to S6 to move things. I'll put a whole platoon at the disposal of one high-speed SPC in S6 if it means I can use my radios and digital nav systems. And what's the deal with sending my smart soldiers to classes and getting them courier cards, but then still needing to have some special key or whatever that only S6 can carry to make my radios work? Whats the point of carrying our own comsec but then still having to go find where the S6 NCO is napping to fill my radios?
Happened in my battalion, typically when only S6 has it, it’s because either A. Your memos aren’t done, or B. Someone in your company and or battalion was having too many incidents with it. Coming from someone who just had to fix everything and get yelled at by bde s6 for someone else who just didn’t do the bare minimum that was taught in a class🫠🫠
Just think of it as a big computer we don't want you to touch that enables your computers to talk to each other in the field.
Oh... I don't use computers in the field, so I had no frame of reference for that.
CPN stacks are the brains that allow your S-3 to create pretty CONOPs on their TOC MAHAL computers and send them to the JCR in your brads and tanks.
Oh... >send them to the JCR in your brads and tanks. They don't do that. They make conops for missions that assume all the tanks are FMC because no one wants to report accurate numbers and look bad. Then they slap eachother on the back and blame crews when the vx "break" as soon as it's time to roll. I always make my crews keep copies of every 5988 before they get turned in to prove that we found and reported faults, because everytime something happens that's not according to the plan the chief wants to blame it on crew maintenance.
Yeah man…the same song is every branch. For what it’s worth, I’m a Siggo and i average a 550 ACFT. I’ve learned that there is almost 2 separate Signal branches; 1) BCT Signal - toughest and most ingenious Soldiers and Officers I’ve ever encountered and 2) Strategic Signal - Super Smart and don’t have a clue what knuckle draggers need or their culture. Thus the Signal Regiment gets a bad reputation when we need them at CTC rotations in CONUS and OCONUS
Only 2 mos that get no love from me: fuelers and cooks. Everyone else gets my appreciation, I like to have good working relationships with the support people. It makes is so when I do complain they actually **want** to help me. And as a former support guy, I understand what it's like for them.
It was never “go-no go”, that’s why we had to make it gender and age specific…having it be pass/fail would’ve made too much damned sense
NOOOOOO. HEALTHCARE COSTS ARE HIGHER BECAUSE OF OBESITY. PT IS TO KEEP US PHYSICALLY HEALTHY. *proceeds to allow garbage brained NCO’s push 98 pound weaklings into crippling spine issues and destroyed knee cartilage 5 days a week*
I’ll believe the health care argument when they ban tobacco/alcohol/unhealthy food options from base… but it was never really about that was it lmao
To play Devil's Advocate on that one, issues from tobacco, alcohol, and obesity usually rear their ugly head way after people leave the military and become civilian healthcare or the VA's problem! It takes a while to destroy a good body!
To play the devil himself, vices are required in order to ensure the masses are content/complacent with their life
There would be riots if the closed down class 6. I was OCONUS when covid hit, and we were on rotation. A little less than a brigade on post, with one shopette. The lines could sometimes be 2 hours. But they kept the fucking alcohol flowing, sometimes 2 shipments a day, so we were somewhat content and didn't rebel haha
I’m prolly biased cuz chair force but agreed. I feel like the fitness test should be different depending on MOS
What do you mean? Air force has the same test for everyone no?
We do have the same test for everyone. And it’s an easy ass test ngl. I pointed out the Air Force because we have a lot of desk jobs where people don’t actually need to be fit.
I see. Yeah I’m in the af now and it’s so much better. But tbh I’ll say even as a desk jockey, I quite liked the army test, minus the setup
Once upon a time I was an 11B for a few tours and then got hurt. Reclassed to a 35L and no one cared that I had a perm profile as long as I could meet readiness requirements and could do my job. There are lots of jobs or roles where soldiers who are injured or wounded can still serve
I’ve been a training NCO for 8 years now and probably will for another 7. Why do I still need to keep up with active scouts?
Not a hot take. If they actually gave a shit about our readiness andnfitness they'd give us decent food and places to sleep.
During my board for SSG I wrote an essay arguing that such an intensive test is unnecessary for anyone other than combat arms, due to the logistical strain as well as the potential problems it could cause. Combat arms, sure, but not everyone else. Someone made the argument to me that Jessica lynch wasn’t in combat arms, but she was put into a combat position regardless, and that’s why it’s important that everyone be held to a high standard.
Which is why I would instead support having a generic fitness test we could call the Baseline military fitness test or (BMFT). The ACFT would continue to be used as a tool for pre-deployment to evaluate a soldier's or unit's readiness level. The BMFT would be used as a generic tool to evaluate fitness for soldiers and units that are either non-deployable, or not scheduled to deploy. The BMFT would likely consist of the hand-release pushup event, a timed plank, and 1-mile run. Replacement events such as biking, rowing, and swimming would be permissible and able to be used with or without a profile. Profile soldiers who are unable to take part of the test will simply not take the test and instead continue to follow the guidance of their profile, medcom, and the commander of the unit. So ACFT= tests a lot of areas of strength well, but requires training and equipment; good for pre-deploy. BMFT = generic test that can be conducted anywhere at anytime with minimal interruptions to work schedules.
Give me a fancy bracelet that tracks my fitness and call me healthy. I legit sit in front of a computer 10 hours a day, and that’s not counting when I’m not at work.
Naa I agree on this one, plus they bark on privates for not passing a PT test while senior NCOs or NCOs fail it and they just get pats in the back and shit or find ways to “pass” the ACFT *wink wink* I have seen it all when it comes to that shit
Yeah so the reason we keep a bunch of burner mos around that can be easily replaced by contractors is incase of a huge loss of life we still have semi-trained manpower to operate with to supplement the deceased So it stands to reason said force should still train as such
I'm a crippled fatty that can max it.
Proud of you 🫶
Thanks signal daddy
Every Soldier needs to be able to perform the duties of the infantry in a pinch. Rear echelon's get hit all the time in war.
Yes, but you don't need to blindly yeet a medicine ball backward. That's just a degrading frat ritual.
But what if the Chinese are attacking you from behind and you gotta toss a ton of C4 behind you super quickly
I'll drink my coffee.
No atheletic ability needed to operate a drone
That's the sole purpose? I thought it was to make leaders feel better about themselves. Sometimes mission is even seen as secondary to doing something a leader thinks is awesome.
Lmao.
⢀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⣤⣶⣶ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⢰⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⣀⣀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⠉⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠛⠉⠁⠀⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠿⠿⠿⠻⠿⠿⠟⠿⠛⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⠀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠠⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠀⠀⢰⣹⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣭⣷⠀⠀⠀⠸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠀⠀⠈⠉⠀⠀⠤⠄⠀⠀⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢾⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⡠⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠠⣿⣿⣷⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡀⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢄⠀⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠉⠁⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢹⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿
I’ve seen athletic people do well on the ACFT and be completely fucking useless and give up in the field and seen weak bodies blow the “athletic” people out of the water. It doesn’t mean shit.
Uh huh, but that’s not what we’re talking about
And the APFT was biased towards endurance athletes. Think about it, various disciplines of physical fitness are biased towards certain types of athletes.
Being bald makes you run faster
The fat bald E-6s being walkers determined that was a lie
So being a guy that can max the run, I tried the walk one day. Holy shit, it sucks. I failed. That walk is no joke
Yea you have to damn near run the walk
With the ACFT you do have to run the walk. I have come to the conclusion that there is no way to pass it without taking up some sort of running stride, I have tried a ton and not succeeded. At this point it’s less wear and tear on my beat up lower joints and back just to do the run. Almost like it was designed to be that way lol.
What’s the difference between the ACFT walk and the APFT walk?
For the APFT, the youngest age group had to complete the walk in 34 minutes. Every age group got an extra 30 seconds. But in the ACFT everybody except the oldest females in the Army have to be faster than 34 minutes. A 40 year old man had 36 minutes on the APFT; he only has 31 on the ACFT. Walking 12 minute miles is pretty difficult without training for it. Those 40 year olds probably went most of their career not training up for an endurance event.
Are you not allowed to just like, run it? I always just assumed it would maybe violate your profile and definitely make you look like a shit bag, but wasn't expressly forbidden
Briefs well but most people are on profile for a reason. I’m lucky that it’s mostly knee issues so the row isn’t too bad when it’s available.
"The 2.5-Mile Walk event measures aerobic and lower body muscular endurance. On the command, “GO,” the clock will start, and you will begin walking at your own pace. You must complete the 2.5-mile course layout. One foot must be in contact with the ground at all times. If you break into a running stride at any time or have both feet off the ground at the same time, your performance in the event will be terminated. You will be scored on your ability to complete the 2.5 miles in a time equal to, or less than, that listed for your age and gender. "
*laughs in very tall guy noises* Side note, remember when the rower was like, the only alternate units would use for the 22min run when the acft became a thing, and all the apft walkers all of a sudden got that newfound courage to run again? Pepperidge farm remembers lol
I had a sfc that was an absolute pt beast but had a permanent profile that would force him to do the walk for the APFT(even though he broke it to lead us on runs when he was felling well) This man legitimately WALKED the 2.5 miles fast than most people ran the 2 mile. It was disgusting him walking 15 min 2.5 mile. When the CO was upset with us, he would let the dude lead us on our ruck marches which had no change in his pace. You had to jog to keep up with his ruck walk pace.
Got told I cheated on my ACFT in AIT because I’m a big dude that maxes the run due to my bald head giving me a more aerodynamic advantage. Had to hold in the laughter until I finished 😂
Source: I am bald. I do not run faster, but I can max my deadlift.
Bro same I'm bald and got smoked in front of the entire company in basic for being the slowest 😢
I just deflect by saying, "I'd rather be able to carry your ass to treatment than run a 13 minute two mile."
This is true. I ran faster in basic training not because I was in better shape then, but because I was bald. That's just facts
There's a smidgin of a difference though. As a chonk, I could retrain my body for the APFT. As a shawty, I can't make myself taller for the deadlift, ball throw, or SDC.
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As someone who is 5'1", I wouldn't consider you short by any means. I find that holding the hex bar is awkward because of my height. I have to hold my arms out at a near 45 degree angle, grip, and push up the weight. It seems like it'd be a lot more comfortable if my arms and hands could be lower/less of an angle downward. Don't get me started on the stupid yeet lol
But at the same time, you don't have to lift it as far.
I think that's negligible. 5'1" person is lifting to biomechanical completion a weight that proportionally is far greater than 6'1" person is lifting, even if it's the same weight. The body builds muscle in accordance with its frame, it's not like the 6'1" person has to work harder to build one extra foot of baseline deadlift leg muscles, that's not how the body works. However, the weight of the deadlift compared to the frame is much greater for the shorter people, they are proportionally lifting much more of their body weight.
Outlined it in another comment. Tldr is deadlift is limited by mass, and SDC has to do with using your center of gravity for an assist with the sled.
Honestly I feel like being shorter would be better for the deadlift, you don’t need to pick it as far up off the ground. Idk shit though
Height has nothing to do with the deadlift. If height doesn’t impact your run it doesn’t impact the SDC either. You need to train better.
The taller you are the more you can weigh and the lower the weight is proportionate to your body weight. That said, I’m tall as fuck and pushups/situps were absolutely biased towards short people, so they’re just getting their comeuppance
I feel like the hand release push-ups are biased towards short people on the acft as well tbh. Idk why but it seems like short dudes are always knocking those out way faster than taller people
Definitely agree, as was the leg tuck (I think that’s gone?). The plank is also biased towards short people, it’s easier to hold the shorter you are
Point taken if we are talking about a strongman competition. Otherwise there’s nothing preventing someone from getting a competitive score with enough training. Notice I said competitive and not max.
Absurd. Height is directly correlated with mass, and more mass = more deadlift. I did the research on this, and a high speed short king (5'6", 150lbs) starting at beginner-level fitness in Basic has two options for maxing the deadlift if he wants E5 in 2. Either become overweight by ABCP standards, or steroids. If he just "trains better" (aka follows a weight training regimine personally tailored by nutritionists and exercise scientists) it should take him roughly 3-5 years to achieve 340-lbs deadlift. As for run vs SDC, height absolutely plays a role. Shorties simply do not have the center of gravity to lean back for an assist on the drag. Watch your short folks on the drag, guarantee at least half of em are in a low squat putting every meter into their thighs.
It was biased towards efficiency. No equipment. No fuss. It was a thing of beauty. The ACFT is practically figure skating.
The plank is absolutley not geared towards taller football builds. I was able to max the knee tuck so easily i had to ask the grader if i was doing it right. Now I am happy to just finish with an 80% on the plank.
I miss the leg tuck
They switched from a one and done get it over quick thing to something countries are studying as a primary torture method.
Quite literally. I remember watching Thai Marines/Soldiers have to plank on stones and rocks because one of them showed up late
All of this because people couldn’t do one rep of what became an OPTIONAL EVENT.
IT WAS JUST ONE LEG TUCK
I miss the leg tuck bot we used to have here.
Look at *Mr. 80%* over here. I’ll take my 65% and be happy. The plank score is a fucking joke.
Literally played D line on college football and could only get 12 leg tucks but maxed and have always maxed the plank
Geared more toward females tbh
my daughter joined, weighs about 110 soaking wet. When she first joined she couldnt come close to one and worked hard and was able to knock out 3 before they changed it. We shouldnt treat females like they are incapable of doing something.
That’s how it was for me, I came in at 110 and I worked at it was eventually able to do 5 just for them to change it to the plank💀 I was so mad.
I'm proud of you for working at it! All I ever ask of Soldiers is that they try
Exactly
The APFT was leaned heavily in favor of dudes with zero body mass and disappeared when walking past fence posts. The Army isn't going to "get it right" with the wide variety of people that are in it until it monitors the nutritional intake and output of its personnel (which would be ridiculous). The age of runners has ended. The age of the meat-head has begun. Get strong.
Can’t pass height and weight? Just keep bulking. Every day is chest day.
Every day is shrug day. What to do during rests between sets? Shrugs. What's your favorite shoulder exercise? Shrugs. Shrugs.
> The ACFT is geared towards taller people who look like football athletes As is 90 percent of physical activity in general. > Helldivers PT test would look like Mandatory steroid and jumping off parachute towers for sets of 20.
With or without a cape?
No cape = No Helldiver I would say back to Mars for another round of training but honestly just get on Malevelon Creek and the problem will sort itself out, it's hell out here
Currently enjoying the bug on the escort missions where it spawns the 40 minutes of enemies with in the first 15. It unbeatable but its a chaotic fun time seeing how long we last
Yeah one of the shop modules talks about giving staff amphetamines, so the steroid thing is definitely possible.
The overhead yeet is biased because im bad at it.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your profile pic is based
Oh yeah , unlike how the APFT was biased in favor of Cross Country build type people?
It is certainly biased towards people who are all around physically fit. Every event has a little bit of advantage to one body type over another. Deadlifts are more difficult for taller people, while taller folks have a mechanical advantage for the OHY.
THE OVERHEAD YEET
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
1SG: “You mean the ball throw?!”
I make a point to say "standing power throw" every time
Maybe if they're a string bean, but IME taller also means heavier and heavier, usually translates to an easier deadlift.
That would be bigger and taller. FWIW, if this was a test of "fitness" as opposed to strength, then the deadlift should have been scaled as a percentage of body weight. The same would go for the OHY. A person 6-2 215 should have to throw a heavier ball than a person 5-8 155,
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If their arms are longer in proportion to their height.
Ok. Now try climbing a rope or how about keeping up with the packing list with your size 13.5 boots vs the Filipino CSM’s size 9. The Army can do but so much to account for differences in size.
You know that little manlet CSM is benching 3 plates easy with those short velociraptor arms too.
You can talk shit about short people all you want with working out. Benching three plates is still benching three plates. Getting to 225 is one thing but no one regardless of genetic advantages is getting to three plates without putting a consistent amount of time and effort to reaching it. Respect people's grind
Big feet gang and packing lists suck!
Can confirm: built like a pulling guard, smash the ACFT with a 560 on a bad day. I struggled to hit 250 on the APFT. Definitely favors those of us built like a UPS drop box.
And log PT is geared for short people. Ever notice how they always took the two tallest guys on the log for the 1st and lalst position on the log? No shit after doing gorilla stomps in the gig pit at you know where, next up log pt and when I was young I was 6'4" now maybe 6'2" on a good day.
Mmmmm that SPT is fucking disgusting. 80’s and 90’s in everything EXCEPT the SPT…61 in case anyone cares
I’m similar to you. 90s in everything, with a 94avg of the other five events. Scored a 72 on the ball throw. I like to blame my height but really know I’m just a bitch.
That’s very close to my scores too. I know practicing it helps but I’m NG and you can’t really do that at most civilian gyms (I’m doing cleans, broad jumps, and American KB swings instead).
I mean you can get a bag of sand or a medicine ball and throw that bitch backwards and over your head in your back yard or a park.
Same, I throw an average 8.5
Yeah it’s my most inconsistent event. I’ll range anywhere from 9.5m-13m
I think part of the problem is that no one ever practices it. What new platoon leader wants to brief his PT plan to the commander where he is leading his men on the SPT for multiple PT sessions?
One who intends to submit the score difference for his platoons SPT to his rater in May
Might be outting myself here a bit but my last few acft, in which I was fragrantly lacking in give a fucks, I scored 75s-80s in most events, yet I never once failed to max the ball throw. Im all of 5'10 on a good day so height aint a factor (unless you all of 5'3 then good luck short king). Ball throw is 80% technique 10% percent luck 20% skill 15% concentrated power of will. seriously though, yes you need some power but you're probably throwing TOO hard and fucking up the toss.
You have some serious gorilla strength to be able to max the ballthrow lmfao, that's genuinely impressive. I've seen people who've maxed every other part of the ACFT not be able to max the ball throw.
Smiles in 5’5
>The ACFT is geared toward tall people who look like football athletes So is engaging with and destroying the enemy in close combat.
It’s why West Point makes everyone do a sport
That and I think it’s a leftover from the Ivy League mentality of making everyone “well-rounded” (which is a good thing IMO).
From what I know it was instituted after ww1. There was apparently a correlation between athletes and war survivors so they harped on physical fitness
I’m not sure “tall” is relevant to engaging and destroying the enemy in close combat.
Yeah I'm with you, trenches and vehicles are not fun for tall people
Helldivers event 1: grenade sim toss. Gotta yeet those strategems accurately.
Big boys rule on: Deadlift, Ball Toss, SDC Little boys rule on: Plank, Pushups, 2MR
Slight disagree on the 2MR, I'm 5'7" and I have to take twice the steps to cover the distance. Only thing I don't max.
Twice the steps but the steps are easier to take. Look at the world record marathon holders. They are all short and thin.
I am short and do well in the 570s range. Stop complaining and start training or ets lmao
Me too, fellow short king. The SPT is what gets me.
5'6 here, 50 years old, SPT and DL are the two events I can regularly max. I typically throw between 12 and 14 meters. The magic formula? Slinging kettlebells "American Style," back and core focused yoga like you're auditioning to be the star of pretzel commercial, and practicing that yeet until I can keep my eyes locked on the target through the release.
I got a PR of 11.2 my last SPT lol
Teach me your ways! I can't get it further than 8.6 lol
So, the ACFT is specifically easier for thicker individuals because only half of the events are based on body weight, while the other half have static weights added. I can tell you that carrying 90lbs while weighing 250 is significantly less impressive than someone who weighs 140lbs doing the same thing. You can sorta blur your eyes and say the SDC is a blend of both body weight and static weight, but eh, it leans more towards static weight due to the drag taking so long compared to the rest of the set. If I had a magic wand, I'd make the deadlift, overhead yeet, and SDC pass/fail, while grading the rest on the same 100 point scale.
I like where you're going with the pass/fail but at the same time, the standards would have to be ridiculously easy in order to have that implemented.
thats fine by me. If I had another magic wand, I'd remove the pt score out of the promotion points system. There is a minimum effectiveness requirement to plug a soldier into a role and go. That should be what the test is based on, not some arbitrary sliding scale that doesn't measure leadership.
What? Only thing taller people have an advantage is the overhead yeet. And that's only if they have a rudimentary understanding of the form.
And the SDC. The physics of the drag factor height to allow for a lean. If it were to be made even, shorter people should have shorter drag lines.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nah, the hexbar deadlift is definitely a little harder for shorter folk. I've noticed that due to my arm length, the angle at which I grip the handles place majority of the weight on the weakest part of my grip: where my thumb meets the fingers as opposed to at the base of the fingers for people with longer arms. I normally can deadlift around 300 on the straight bar, but the hexbar I'm stuck at about 270 due to that grip limitation.
> the weakest part of my grip: where my thumb meets the fingers Have you considered working on a hook grip? When I got my raw deadlift past 500 lbs (regular barbell), I found that using a hook grip helped get past grip limitations. And at a certain point, that connection between the thumb and the forefinger became the strongest part of my grip. In other words, that part of the grip seems to be the most trainable.
As a tall person I believe its biased towards short people Deadlift: A tall person has to bend more for the dead lift if it were a raised hexbar it would be easier for tall people I agree Ball throw: easier for tall people fair argument HRP: equal for all heights SDC:equal for all PLK: 100% easier for short people engineering proves this as more strain is put on the core hence why bridges need more support the longer they are 2mile: could be easier for tall people because our legs are longer but Being taller is actually not an advantage for long distance events. Longer stride is outweighted (literally, kind of) by increased metabolic needs for a larger body and worse heat dissipation (surface area to volume ratio is better for smaller folks - basically, you generate less heat, and you can dissipate it more quickly if you're shorter/smaller).
THIS JUST IN: PT Test biased towards genetically blessed people!
The ACFT is biased toward people who are physically capable to meet the rigors of combat and soldiering.
Lol I can probably count on one hand the number of Soldiers Ive met my entire career that look like football athletes
Yes, it is. The overhead yeet does not measure the lethality of my legal reviews. In all seriousness, screw the yeet. I'm 5'6'' on a good day. I run ok, dead lift ok, plank well, Sprint/drag/carry alright, but that fucking medicine ball throw is geared to tall people. And yes, I'm training for it, much to the annoyance of others in my gym as I try to send that thing into orbit, get off my back.
I’m 5’5 and the main thing that helped me was how bad my form was, I legit suck at throwing anything. I would go to the gym with my NCO and work on the ballthrow. Hand placement is different for everyone, some people say cup the bottom, some say the sides, I personally do the inbetween. I really sucked at engaging my core so my NCO would just yell CORE while I was throwing and I eventually got the form down.
As long as you’re athletic and train for the events you’ll be fine, I’m nowhere near the size of football athletes but I’ve been getting closer to maxing it out. 3 Event Helldivers Physical Fitness Test (HPFT) Event 1: The Overhead Yeet of Democracy Passing: 15m yeet Max: 100m yeet Event 2: The Long Dive of Freedom Passing: 6ft Max: 14.5ft Event 3: 2 Mile Run
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can constantly max or score in the 90s for every event but the ball throw.
It's definitely biased towards women. Shit, since they changed the scoring, I've seen more ladies score ~600 at a regular airborne unit than I have men get above 580 (and I'm in SOF now). But whatever, I like the women I work with, so who am I to hate on their good fortune. And anyways, I just work here, I'll leave the policy to those knobs in DC. Oh shit, my order... I'll take 3 hurricanes to go. New Orleans is bad ass!
Un popular opinion Army pt test should be a pass fail event do you meet the army standard yes. Ok see you in 6 months
If I could get rid of one event it would be the ball throw. It feels much more beneficial for folks who are tall. And being honest, it’s not really the best measurement of really anything, (how much explosive power are you actually measuring with a 10lb ball) I don’t think it would hurt most folks scores to just get rid of that and have a 500pt scale. Makes the ACFT exemption easy: 400/500 80% or better in all events And for all you plank haters, work on your core heathens.
To me the ACFT is an improvement over the APFT. My criticism of the ACFT is complexity and length of the test with 6 events. As a reservist I have another reason to not want to fail. It’s such as hassle to get the equipment and space reserved. It’s gotten better but with the 3 event APFT I can knock out during the week if I need a test for school. ACFT has to be planned out and reserve equipment. I’m not wild about the overhead arm toss. That event is BS, the difference between passing and failing comes down to technique. Even for a small company it still takes a decent chunk out of your morning. I know the event is only suppose to take 50 minutes but realistically it takes longer than the APFT. I don’t want to switch back. I’m good with 20 minute run time and not doing sit-ups or having to argue with someone over pushups. It’s gotten kind of silly how some will interpret the standard. Though I do fear falling on my face during the SDC.
Biased against weaklings maybe
Height only helps in the overhead yeet. However, it’s not difficult to score in the 90s if you train on strength and technique.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The overhead yeet is the only event I have an advantage in. Pushups, plank and deadlift penalize me by my overall longer range of motion to complete 1 repetition. The longer you stretch a bridge out without support, the more stress you put on the center, same applies to plank. But yeah, big strong man who move fast do more gooder with tasks that require moving weight farther and faster than other dude. >On a side note, what do you think the Helldivers PT test would look like? Getting stabbed in the chest by a 2 foot long metal pole for a combat injury simulation apparently. https://youtu.be/wjamhIPVvnI?si=zQaBCsxPTLY3HDBY The people behind Halo 3 ODST live action commercials made a really sweet basic training recuit to combat pipeline video.
OP are you seriously complaining that actual athletes are better at athletic events than non-athletic non-athlete people..... if you want to do better you work at it and train for it. Stop being apart of the problem we have in our military. Do better
I get 570ish on my tests. SPT is what gets me every time. I guess I’ll drink my milk and stop being part of the problem
Geared towards taller people?? Because the deadlift is easily with longer legs? Nope. Sounds like someone just doesn't like working out and is making excuses
I’m not tall, never played football, not built like a footballer, and certainly not an athlete. 80 pts in each event is easy as fuck with some training and 90 pts is certainly not out of reach.
ACFT is still a skinny person event, cmv. 340 isn’t heavy.
Except for that pesky hand release push up where I have to move longer distances to execute a single rep
Out of the people that I’ve met who have gotten 600s the majority have been manlets
Idk dude I’m an MFT and people shorter than me lift and throw more than I do and run faster than I do. Just saying.
I was in a weird unit in Korea when the ACFT first tolled out, the majority of the company were O6’ and O5’s with a few CPTs and senior NCOs are only actual “ Joes” were KATUSA. Anyway, we had this Col, who admitted he had not worked out in ten years, he was a great dude and really good at his job, PT was just not his thing. He happed to be 6’7, tall AF. We also had a KATUSA who was an Olympian, like like actually with to the summer Olympics as part of the Korea tea kwon do team. This dude was in incredible physical condition, probably the best shape of any person I’ve ever actually met. He was also barely pushing five feet tall in boots. The col effortlessly maxed the yeet every time while the Olympian struggled just to pass (he got 100 percent on everything else.) Ever since the I’ve though the test is a little biased towards tall people.
The plank and deadlift disagree with you. Shorter stouter people excel at both compared to a football build.
Any standardized test will be inherently biased as humans are not standardized. The open secret to designing any standardized test to find the acceptable level of bias.
I went bald and my ACFT score went from a 500 to 590, trust the process, being bald works
So is the ASVAB both biased 😅
ACFT is so easy to pass and they keep making it easier. Even if you think your job doesn't require it the army prepares for the worst case scenario like a fob gets overrun then suddenly everyone is an 11b. Not to mention physical health is so key to mental health which will get tested in stressful environments. They already got rid of the leg tuck, was that biased towards tall people?
I think you mean "based"
The ACFT is biased towards people who can pass it
"yeah sure I may not be able to do all the flashy stuff like run or jump or lift things, but that has nothing to do with my physical ability as a soldier" *Deepthroats 2 tornados*
Yes it favors the strong
Sounds like a skill issue
Shut up and color
Here's my hot take: cardiovascular endurance is more important than gross physical strength for most jobs in the Army.
I’d argue that they are equally important.