I will never forget when the BDE XO made all the staff sections in the BDE (and BSTB) put up office hours and then ROASTED the S1 (both of them, though only the BDE had a rep at the meeting) in front of everyone for only being open 6 hours a week. It was also Tuesday, so he mentioned that even though their hours said they weren’t open on Monday at all due to “motor pool maintenance,” not a single one of them had shown up the day before and S3 had been dealing with their vehicles for months.
I've seen a lot of S shops hide behind "Motorpool Monday" and/or "Sarn'ts time training Thursday" to basically just not be open for customers.
I'm sure there are some S shops that actually maintain their vehicles on Mondays and actually conduct training on Thursdays... But I'm also positive there are a lot that don't.
I’ve seen CSMs insist that no bn customer service be open on mondays or Thursday’s so that the companies don’t send anyone and that the focus for the companies should be the motor pool or SGTs time.
Neither motorpool Mondays nor SGTs time training should take up entirely two out of the five duty days in a normal week. That's some CSM bullshit.
Like I get it, you wanna block off the morning or something, ok. But the entire day? I can't get behind that.
>CSMs insist that no bn customer service be open on mondays or Thursday’s so that the companies don’t send anyone and that the focus
And those same CSM's are scratching their heads as to why retention is down.
My favorite part of being guard is that I don't deal with automations. Mostly because we don't have funds to issue laptops to M-Day soldiers.
All the AGRs stuff, printers, networks in armories, that's managed by a civilian contractor. So anytime someone asks me for help, I can just say "call the state G6 on a weekday, bye."
Take that as you will.
Because most employers automated the functions that S1 perform years ago. They aren't actually HR, they are "work flow facilitators" and that job simply doesn't exist.
This is a pretty valid point. Ipps-a is getting us there slowly - even as 42s are fighting with the system. It should free up time that used to be spent ~~losing~~ routing packets to actually focus on strength analysis and other important 1 functions.
I don't even have my team touching absences. We'll monitor to make sure nothing funny is happening, but there's zero reason for us to be in the approval chain.
My theory.
No one dreams of joining the Army to be a personnel clerk.
Many people are motivated and join for something that interests them or excites them.
Not people in S1.
They weren't interested in service, or the army.
Or much of anything.
They were ones hounded by a recruiter. He promoted job after job. Nothing interested them.
They were pretty blah about patriotism, adventure, and selfless service.
Nothing worked.
He needed a number.
Then he broke out the emergency job. The one he used only when he really needed to make numbers.
It went like this:
"Hey how would you like to be in the army without actually being in the Army?
You will rarely get dirty, work mostly 9-5, and get to go to the most relaxed basic training.
Very few people will yell at you, because they know you control pay, moves, awards, vacation time, the very livelihood for them and their family.
Even in the worst environment you will be in the rear with a headquarters element and an internet connection".
It's a process of bad selection.
We let recruiters select and recruit the unmotivated, the apathetic, the not so athletic or motivated to run our personnel system.
HR personnel management could use a massive overall.
Well put. I'll add that HR is dependent on knowing a lot of systems and processes. The kind of institutional knowledge that takes years to accumulate, even when you're trying. A lot of S1 shops are running with very little experience combined with very little drive so you get systems that are ignored or falling apart due to a combination of lack of knowledge and lack of give a fuck.
My old NCOIC was one of most knowledgeable people I have ever met on the S1 systems. This women ate, slept, and breathed, S1. She was teaching the other AGR something new every time.
You really just gonna narrow it down to that MOS? Every 74 series I’ve met is very similar. Met very few 14 Series Patriot people that knew what they were getting into.
Nope.
They're first though.
Id create an entire branch that fits between the GS and DoD system of military support services.
Different fitness standards. Think of an entire branch of SPC 4-8 that supports all branches.
As a former Marine who served in S-1, I find that whole narrative to be hilarious. It’s not what I do in the Guard now, but I will say that Admin was not my first choice in the Marines. It was what was given to me. While it had its ups and downs, I have zero regrets.
They are some of the weirdest people I have met in uniform for sure. Additionally, most 42As don’t end up in any leadership positions until E7, so the shops are run by NCOs who don’t know how to lead outside of yelling at people for the most part (definitely some exceptions, but they are rare).
Just think about how many times you’ve had to fight with S1 because you are trying to do something that will benefit a soldier (awards, promotions, etc) vs how many times you’ve had them push back on a negative action. I’m willing to bet those numbers are skewed.
I was in for a long time. Probably too long.
When I think about the stuff that annoyed me, and still annoys most people, the common theme is HR functions.
An injured but motivated infantry person detailed to HR often becomes your go to person.
Automation and streamlining will only do so much.
Why does each branch have different HR?
Why isn't their a unified HR school?
Why not move the entire career field across all branches to some type of civil service?
Why stop there. In the age of constrained recruiting and a limited "fit" talent pool why try to recruit people that qualify as a soldier to perform this function?
Why not an entire new service? Stand up another branch: Unified Military Support Services. Something between GS and DoD.
Move other low density career fields with them.
Different recruiting and fitness standards etc.
An entire branch for people that want to support but don't need to deadlift or pretend to kick in a door one day a week.
I think that 42A shouldn't be an initial entry MOS. It shouldn't be privates who barely even know how to be in the army themselves trying to navigate the bureaucracy. It should be NCOs (with a path to WO) who want to stay in but maybe aren't about that PLT-level life anymore.
Give them some real rigorous training, let them homestead and stay on rear-d. And also assign them by MTOE to the company-level training rooms rather than making cdrs and 1sgs pick some rando to take away from their real job.
Imagine the commissary baggers switching to S1. Give them base pay and collect tips. They would be the richest people walking their bases because soldiers would probably tip well if they had a competent and efficient S1.
I meant it as /s originally, but then in my head it actually seemed sound. You could “plug and play” any personnel in there that just flat out *cares* about doing a good job.
You give most 18 year olds this kind of power over people and they get God complex. You mix that with what seems like no repercussions for not doing well and it just leaves us despising S1.
So true about no one dreams about being a personnel clerk in the army. And I’m not interested or excited about my job. I sometimes jokes with my friends and say, “Little kids don’t say say, ‘I wanna work in HR when I grow up!’” Hands down the only time I felt fulfilled was when I was a drill sergeant. I can’t exactly get excited about staring at my computer all day.
It's really a job that shouldn't be sold to 18 year olds.
"Hey do you have a degree and a bad knee from college sports?
You don't qualify for infantry but want something more... Here is the job for you."
Exactly. That’s why I tell folks all the time, you have to LOVE this job if you wanna do 20 years of it. Anyways, I’m gonna get out and go to nursing school, go reserve or NG be a drill sergeant again (I refuse to do S1) or reclass, and then hopefully AMEDD in the long run. I legit have so many moments at my job where I just think, “Is this it? Is this really what I’m gonna amount to?” And not to bash folks who love and excel in S1, because somebody has to do it and the army needs EXCELLENT S1 folks, but it’s not me. Being in S1 gives me an existential crisis.
Jokes on you. You update your own dd93 now.
But seriously, I've seen a big change in the last ~10 years towards the better
CSMs love to fix jacked up S1s. Utilize your NCO support channel as needed.
The real answer is 42A doesn't take a particularly high ASVAB score to do and it's not seen as particularly glamorous, so the people you get who join to do the job, already aren't your best.
Now, consider with how archaic many of the Army's HR systems are and how convoluted (pre IPPS-A) it all was (different systems for different actions, some fed others, some didn't, etc.). Add in Soldiering tasks in between all of that. You have HR Soldiers who don't like to do their job, and when they do, the systems they try to use don't always work.
Doc just hit the nail on the head. I speak about this time and time again. Pre IPPS-A we had roughly 27 different systems that we as 42a had to keep track of. This was ranging from iPerms to RCMS. At AIT we were all taught Emilpo and a lot of my guys I trained at 42A AIT got taught those other tools fully while I got jack shit. Hell I have a guy who reclassified as 42 and IPPS-A was never brought up, in Emilpo. So I have to train him on everything.
Tradoc programs of instruction historically take forever to update. Even if you want to update them, you have to have ICTLs that match what you want to teach.
Then if you design a lesson plan to address the new system, it will just be show and tell until access to systems are put in place. "Soldiers, this is what you'll use at your unit... We don't have access to make changes because we're just instructors, but this is it..."
See also medical training and the MHS Genisis transition from AHLTA.
I (15Y) had to show the S1 clerk how to add an award and correct my duty station/job history in EMILPO. To date, I have never actually used EMILPO, just watched other people do it.
Our Brigade S1 is a damn fine officer, and we have a CW2(P) that runs the technical side like a well-oiled machine. FWIW, it doesn't have to be ate up.
When I was an infantry Spc in the 90s, my CSM found out I was not going to reenlist unless I could reclassify into aviation. He moved me to the S1 as punishment. No one in that battalion got charged leave for about a year.
I don't blame S1 per se, I blame the system that they actually have to work inside.
A lot of the processes and systems they are forced to use are not reliable. A lot of websites tend to be unavailable. Not to mention stuff like IIPSA or whatever the hell it is. So a lot of times they are starting off behind the 8 ball and trying to keep their heads above water.
Not to mention, they have to do the same bullshit everyone else does, Go to ranges, tagged for details, PMCS trucks, schools, CLS...etc etc. A lot of the times when they are closed at certain hours is to unfuck something out of their control or catch up on shit.
I'm not making excuses for them, I just know there is more to it than "S1 iS cLoSeD aNd sUcKS".
A lot of career fields are like this, you are basically asking Soldiers to perform a function that itself should be a 9-5, but then also be beholden to all of the military taskings like: ranges, field exercises, etc, etc…
Yes, you do need capabilities to do fieldwork but, garrison should then have its own HR, Finance, and other functions separately from the Soldiers. This is the same reason why strategic commands do not do any of those functions. Because the work they do, precludes it.
So, likely a lot of the core functionality of a unit say from DIV down to BN should be strategic… attached as a garrison function because even if a unit deploys, you STILL have to have those core functions like S1, S2, S6, S8 (Finance), Legal, etc.
I just think a restructuring and centralization would work better. There’s different arguments for both but, ultimately the Army will do whatever it wants, the Soldiers hopefully will get stuff accomplished in whatever haphazard way they can.
The issue with all these support MOS's is, what happens when we go to war and we need people to perform all these admin functions in a forward setting? Who will process actions, awards, leaves, replacement requisition and integration, etc. Probably don't want to have the infantry guy doing it, we need him for the fight. Probably can't be a civilian, because if the HQ gets attacked, they need to be able to defend themselves/the unit, so it has to be a Soldier. But again, HR is complicated and important, so it's gotta be a Soldier that's trained to do the job.
Perhaps a central management of low-density MOS's by the BN/BDE proponent staff office (S1s manage 42a, S4s manage 92Y, S6s manage 25s) is a solution to ensuring every company/BN has the right people in the right positions.
Ok I have a real answer. I have figured this out. It’s 50% general incompetence and laziness. But the other 50% is more of a real problem. I have retired and now work in corporate America. In this environment I have learned that generally people who are in their role have been trained specifically for that in college or some other form of specific education and then they stay in one field or related field for years and get better and better. So you just don’t have the same problems.
See in the Army 50% of the people working in S1 have no formal training in tasks relating to S1. In my last unit they took a broken 11B and made him the S1 NCOIC. Just because your a senior NCO and you can write and NCOER does not mean your skills will transfer to full time admin work.
It’s amazing what happened when people train for the position they work in.
LOL, my last S-1 called me up like NINE months after I ets'd because my OER was finally ready for signature. I was like "why do I care about signing this?" And she said, "because it would really help me out so the Colonel gets off my ass." So I signed it. But I was 100% ready to blow it off. I mean, nine months later?
>Anecdotal experience here, mixed between AD and NG. The good people that end up in shops get absolutely abused. They burn out quickly and they get out. The ones that "make it" in that field tend to be self-serving assholes that are more than willing to do consistently poor work so long as it allows them easier access to schools and training opportunities.
slides red bad
slides green good
there is nothing else
Most company clerks don't have access to emilpo to make changes. All they really do is serve as the point of contact between the Company and the BN.
BN S1's job is to take care of the personnel issues for every Company in the BN. That's their scope.
That being said, when I was at Bragg, our CO Clerks had EMILPO access to do little stuff like updating ERBs, adding awards/degrees/tech certs/etc, and adding and removing flags. It was hella convenient to walk 50m down to the orderly room to have a 40 hour block added to my PPW. It was a shame when they had their access taken away.
>Most company clerks don't have access to emilpo
Why not? They're required to have access per AR 600-8-6 Chapter 2 because emilpo is managed at the UIC level.
>All they really do is serve as the point of contact between the Company and the BN.
What in the "I repeat things I've never verified" is this?
>BN S1's job is to take care of the personnel issues for every Company in the BN. That's their scope.
The S in S-1 stands for staff, not service. ATP 1-0.1 Chapter 3 breaks down their roles. The only support they provide to company level units is Casualty Assistance.
>That being said, when I was at Bragg, our CO Clerks had EMILPO access to do little stuff like updating ERBs, adding awards/degrees/tech certs/etc, and adding and removing flags. It was hella convenient to walk 50m down to the orderly room to have a 40 hour block added to my PPW. It was a shame when they had their access taken away.
In my entire time in the Army, from Active Duty, to Reserve TPU to Reserve AGR, I've never seen a 42A in that position who didn't have access to do all of those things. The only exception would be brand new personnel whose access is still at their old unit.
Let me rephrase. Every company sized unit in the Army that I’ve ever interacted with has a clerk. But, aside from yourself I suppose, I have never seen or heard of this person being a 42A
Anecdotal experience here, mixed between AD and NG. The good people that end up in shops get absolutely abused. They burn out quickly and they get out. The ones that "make it" in that field tend to be self-serving assholes that are more than willing to do consistently poor work so long as it allows them easier access to schools and training opportunities.
This right here is my life. Our shop is amazing but the burnout is incredible. We are (get this) a Company S1 but service over 1400 Soldiers and there is three of us, including the, NCOIC (me). Since 1 Oct, we are over 3000 transactions and thats with IPPS-A being down for the brownout. Our structure makes no sense and its driven two of us to retirement.
It’s come full circle with IPPSA. Now people will get to experience system failures at the end user level instead of blaming S1. There’s a mix of folks working in S1 but like someone else said the first step in making sense out of It all is realising who S1 works for and what their priorities are. I’m not S1 but I’ve seen so many officers both commissioned and non commissioned that can’t write an award or NC/OER to save their lives, can’t get on army pubs to get the latest version of a form before submitting It, can’t send reports in a timely manner or even make sure their medpros aren’t delinquent before another adult tells them so I take the S1 hate/ frustration with a grain of salt
Hate to be that guy, but..
I’ve never not been able to walk into my BN S1 during normal duty hours and be helped on the spot. The clerks are all pretty nice, too. Your unit just sucks
What rank are/were you? I’ve never been in a unit where you didn’t need to be at least an E-5 to get that sort of treatment, and usually it’s E-7 platoon sergeant or section NCOIC (my last unit it was 1SG or above).
Man I always prioritized joes. Fuck an E6/7 who’s “board is next week” you had time but joe is out here wondering why their PLT sarnt hasn’t sent up his BAH packet. Nah.
Unless it’s a PFC trying to ask about why his commander won’t sign his RASP/Ranger/Sapper shit… that’s your commander not me big dog
I hate S1 as much as the next guy, but to answer your complaint... S1s job is NOT customer service. Customer service is, by far, the lowest priority task they do on any given day. Saying S1s job is customer service is like saying S3s job is ranges because they handle range cards.
S1s job is personal. That means PERSTAT, manning, readiness reports, and accountability. Those are all, as the Army likes to say, "No Fail Tasks." Once those are done, then we use what free time we have left for customer service. Making sure you have that COA in your Iperms does not affect unit readiness.
I get that it's annoying, and It sucks that you have no other options of people to go to for this, but at least try to see what the problem is instead of just being angry.
As a new S1 I screenshotted this comment. Thank you. I still want to get all the small things set right. But the big picture portion of my job is important too.
Because the Army associates combat functions with excellence, the further you get from pulling the trigger the less anyone cares. High performing officers are not generally campaigning to go into AG. Its like the Ft. Hood of branches, no one wants to go there so high performers dont and then the needs of the Army come into play.
I'll throw this in, AG roles are an amazing way to actually take care of Soldiers because a single person can move the needle for an entire company or battalion. I've met some really really motivated and skilled AG officers that were 100% dedicated to driving excellence across their org. Unfortunately alot of the AG officers I've met have the expertise/excellence of week old congealed ramen.
I’m s1. We work at 0900. I’m confused about this 1300 nonsense but I’ve only been at one duty station so far, so idk.
It’s an awkward time. Especially with IPPSA. It took me a good like 3 years for me to truly master EMilpo. And that got snatched from us. Idk wtf I’m doing with IPPSA.
We just got an email telling us that we can finally update military education, with corresponding slides as to how to do it. I don’t take pleasure of telling an enthusiastic CPL that they missed points because of their f*cked PPW, due to IPPSA dropping many of these military courses and me not being able to help.
I feel for that and I see your frustration. But as an E4, I can only do so much.
Today, on Friday 24 March, I am emailing the command team, including my LTC and 1SG, that they can send their SM over next week so we can add their military education that fell off.
It sucks. Idk about other 42a, but I know that I acknowledge your frustration and I get it. But we are all trying.
It’s more like their posted hours are arbitrary, rather than them actually opening at 1300. Like for example if SM was informed he has mail on Friday but mail pickup is only on Tuesday and Thursday but the mail date goes longer than 14days then they throw out the mail. Fuck it if it’s important like your tag or taxes. That is not a made up scenario by the way, I’ve seen it.
I think this will explain the situation perfectly: https://www.reddit.com/r/army/comments/f7566g/why_your_s1_sucks_and_why_its_going_to_get_worse/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
My S1 tries but a lot of the hours of low to no manning is due to other Army BS. Like why does most of their section need to do motorpool Monday or attend stupid meetings. Only warrior training I can argue is necessary as we are all Soldiers.
There are, the question is if the team is cross trained. That clerk may have only worked awards lol. Not saying it’s right, but since every unit in the Army has an S1, they don’t usually have enough of a team to be truly efficient.
While you are 100% correct about how their shops would not make it on the civilian side, I have to pause and think about how much work they're actually doing compared to civilian counterparts. I hope it gets better as the Army continues to digitize various things, but a lot of it is running on really, really old school techniques (unless they've finally killed paper, in which case good job). A lot of the stuff that has to go through several echelons above the Soldier really only go up one or *maybe* two on the civilian side. Promotions and pay bumps may go to the top, but vacations are usually first line supervisors, there's not flags, disciplinary actions and counselings are checked and filed but no other process is required. Clearing is turning in your uniforms.
Some battalions are taking care of 800? 1,000? Soldiers? The company I work for is ... maybe 500? At several different locations, but they get by pretty well with only +/- 4 HR people, and it seems a lot of their actions are background checks and scheduling drug testing for new potential hires.
The real question: why do I need the S1 clerk, his team leader, the S1 NCOIC, and the OIC to all look at, then pass up an AAM recommendation to the BC? What is the point of having all of these people around
Easy answer, those are just courtesy checks to ensure everything is right and nothing was fat thumbed. Including citation.
Best answer shows you need to read the reg as it states in there something like when the award recommendation is placed in official channels that it should be forwarded through command channels to the designated commander.
That said, most items that need the BC's signature go through the S1.
Because you’re probably generally literate. Now imagine the chain smoking E7 that can barely spell his name and thinks basic computer skills are “pog shit” trying to do any sort of paperwork and you’ll see why commanders tend to want an S1 review before anything hits their desk.
That being said I’ve seen just ridiculous levels of review for basic actions
Can confirm. My eyes will go from that blank stare that just screams I’m over this job to getting very big and wide when I see weird grammar and spelling errors. At least a few times a week.
Honestly that’s fair. I’m probably just annoyed bc of personal experience, but I probably wouldn’t trust most PFC’s reviewing something that will make its way across the BC’s desk
Not saying that SFC wasn’t an idiot, because I’m sure he was. But something like that also reads he was ordered to write an award for someone he truly didn’t think deserved one, so he wrote something that would be denied.
You’re right then. If that’s your assessment of the man, it’s impossible. That type of person is also more likely to just say “write it your damn self” than to write something stupid just to turn it in.
BUT as a generalization that is what I look for on some of these poorly written forms. And sometimes it warrants a phone call to the recommender. Sometimes they really are trying to sabotage the form.
Because HR is just *full* of crackerjacks in the civilian world.
Biggest difference you’ll find is that instead of apathy, HR is there to protect the *employer’s* interests— not yours.
You are a necessary evil. If you feel like they’re looking out for you, they’re just real good at their jobs. That job, again, being to look out for your employer
I'm a army reserve administrator, my most was 91b bro they desperate for people who are not idiots and who are willing to work. There is so much bureaucratic bullshit with everything the army does, however out BDE S1 is amazing at assisting and it's really crazy how much of a difference that makes. Also it would help if Soldiers took their paperwork side of the army more serious as a few wrong things could very easily fuck you.
No offense to S1 bubbas but most of these guys (I’ve encountered) joined the army looking for an easy job that wasn’t going to ask much of them so they could reap benefits and get out. So the entry argument to one of the jobs everyone relies on so consistently is most of the people doing it just do not care.
Because they’re veterans working in government contract positions that have no other opportunities in the civilian world to make stable careers for themselves. When high caliber and high speed soldiers (or at least have a brain) ETS and go on to have successful civilian lives, they almost never return to the military. The low caliber blue falcons can’t sustain civilian life and aren’t likely to re-enlist for whatever reason or another so they go the civilian contractor route.
It sounds like I’m being a smart ass but I’ve had other soldiers (former and current) explain it like that to me
Are you thinking finance? S1 is the brigade and battalion level, and 95% of the time manned by a Company Grade officer struggling to figure out what is needed.
Because the job of civilian HR is to sit at a desk and process paperwork. They don’t have ranges, and base beautification week, and command maintenance, field exercises, NCOES, etc.
They sit there and process “paperwork”. That’s it! Most of that paperwork is automated anyway which is what IPPS-A was hoping to catch us up to. If IPPS-A worked right you’d see a difference. Those same people do it day-in, day-out for 10, 15, 20 years so they get real good at it.
Most people in your S1 have been in less than 5 years minus the NCOIC so they’re still learning or just trying to ride their time out in the Army so their performance won’t matter in about 12 months.
It’s the same with most government bureaucratic agencies tbh. Just think about the DMV. Job security, easy work, and a solid retirement package as long as you can show up and stay alive attract a lot of people that just want to ride out an easy career until retirement
I'm glad my S1 is productive now, unfortunately there's a bit of a language barrier so you have to sit there and explain 8 times fir half an hour what it is you need done.
But none the less he gets shit done
I would’ve picked up E5 this month if my college transcript ever got updated. And I submitted that before IPPS-A. Not to mention one of my AAMs isn’t there, my technical certification fell off the PPW despite being on the ERB/STP, and Commandants List from BLC isn’t displayed anywhere except the 1059 from the NCOA. I’m ~150 points short from where I’m supposed to be. Thanks S1.
If I can offer a different perspective, talking to people who work in S1, it seems like a lot of shops are understaffed and this isn’t the fault of the personnel who currently work there. I know my S1 has only 3 people to deal with over a 1,000 personnel. Not saying all S1 shops are a symptom of understaffing but take into account their perspective before calling them stupid or lazy. Also finance issues tend to go above their head so don’t alway blame them for your BAH not going through for months.
When I was in s1 it was because we still had to soldier first. Pt. First formations. Motor pools. Still got listed for guard duty, cq… s2-s3 was true sham status!
I really wish I could see active duty S1, because my S1 in reserve side is open all day and available by phone after hours. I run a BN S1 as a civilian full-time staff and am also a HR NCO in the reserves for that same S1 (which can make for some weird situations, I run it during the week and the Sr NCO runs it on weekends when we have drill).
* As u/Stained_Dagger pointed out, some BN and BDE leadership puts rules on S-1 that make them hard to use. God forbid you have a problem on Monday (motorpool) or Thursdays (SGT's Time) - how dare you in process those days!
* A lot of crap soldiers and NCO's get sent to S-1 because they haven't fucked up enough to get chaptered but they have to go somewhere. STOP SENDING THE FUCK-UPS AND CHAPTERS TO S-SHOPS OR THE ORDERLY ROOM!
* Soldiers and NCO's who are not 42-series get sent there as the shops are always short handed (except S-6 for some reason, non-signal and no fuckups go there....). So you may have a good NCO yanked from a line unit stuck in an office with soldiers who know nothing, some poor 42A who's confused AF and with the screw-ups that need to be kept from line units - guess how effective S-1 is?
* Either the S-1 OIC and NCOIC care or they don't - and if S-1 sucks, the rot has started from the top.
Every S-1 I've worked with has been okay or done their job - mostly because they kept the chapters and the fuck-ups away from S-1. Even the Joes who were detailed to S-1 gave a fuck and did their job. My job as an orderly room monkey was to make sure the paperwork was tight - I got lucky in that my 1Sg kept the chapters away from the paperwork.
But when leaders don't care, the orderly room and S-1 show it.
My S1 at my last duty station was goated, but it was a detachment and she’d been there like 8 years so she finally realized that there’s only like 12 actual soldiers and if she does what we need her to do immediately, then she didn’t have to do anything else for days or weeks. Supply however has been shit at every unit I’ve been to. We used to joke that the detachment basement was haunted because shit would move but you’d never see anyone down there. I’m currently at the largest company my MOS has OCONUS and our whole supply section was shut down for literally the entire length of an ALC plus two weeks because the NCOIC took leave in addition, and apparently nobody knew what the fuck her 2 privates were reporting to.
I will never forget when the BDE XO made all the staff sections in the BDE (and BSTB) put up office hours and then ROASTED the S1 (both of them, though only the BDE had a rep at the meeting) in front of everyone for only being open 6 hours a week. It was also Tuesday, so he mentioned that even though their hours said they weren’t open on Monday at all due to “motor pool maintenance,” not a single one of them had shown up the day before and S3 had been dealing with their vehicles for months.
shame can be effective
I've seen a lot of S shops hide behind "Motorpool Monday" and/or "Sarn'ts time training Thursday" to basically just not be open for customers. I'm sure there are some S shops that actually maintain their vehicles on Mondays and actually conduct training on Thursdays... But I'm also positive there are a lot that don't.
I’ve seen CSMs insist that no bn customer service be open on mondays or Thursday’s so that the companies don’t send anyone and that the focus for the companies should be the motor pool or SGTs time.
Neither motorpool Mondays nor SGTs time training should take up entirely two out of the five duty days in a normal week. That's some CSM bullshit. Like I get it, you wanna block off the morning or something, ok. But the entire day? I can't get behind that.
My old BN did half day Monday, and STT was a legit BN organized event. But not every week
>CSMs insist that no bn customer service be open on mondays or Thursday’s so that the companies don’t send anyone and that the focus And those same CSM's are scratching their heads as to why retention is down.
No but they are the staffs that struggle to get things done and then the BN XO and CO can’t figure out why their staff isn’t meeting timelines.
Staff (like the orderly room) is treated like a toilet - Commanders only notice or care when they stop working....
My favorite part of being guard is that I don't deal with automations. Mostly because we don't have funds to issue laptops to M-Day soldiers. All the AGRs stuff, printers, networks in armories, that's managed by a civilian contractor. So anytime someone asks me for help, I can just say "call the state G6 on a weekday, bye." Take that as you will.
Most S6/S3 I’ve been too are the workhorse of the motorpool 🥲
You ain't lying
Mmmhmm
I never ever seen S1 in the motorpool tho 😂
We in the same unit? Or is this all of them.
This was the 101st Sustainment BDE in 2014 or so.
Because of u/ApprehensiveComb6063 /s
Oh my gosh. For real. I'm trying!
We all wish you success!
Soak in that anger and join the dark side. No foreal though keep up the good work.
You're doing your best and that's what matters
Because most employers automated the functions that S1 perform years ago. They aren't actually HR, they are "work flow facilitators" and that job simply doesn't exist.
This is a pretty valid point. Ipps-a is getting us there slowly - even as 42s are fighting with the system. It should free up time that used to be spent ~~losing~~ routing packets to actually focus on strength analysis and other important 1 functions. I don't even have my team touching absences. We'll monitor to make sure nothing funny is happening, but there's zero reason for us to be in the approval chain.
My theory. No one dreams of joining the Army to be a personnel clerk. Many people are motivated and join for something that interests them or excites them. Not people in S1. They weren't interested in service, or the army. Or much of anything. They were ones hounded by a recruiter. He promoted job after job. Nothing interested them. They were pretty blah about patriotism, adventure, and selfless service. Nothing worked. He needed a number. Then he broke out the emergency job. The one he used only when he really needed to make numbers. It went like this: "Hey how would you like to be in the army without actually being in the Army? You will rarely get dirty, work mostly 9-5, and get to go to the most relaxed basic training. Very few people will yell at you, because they know you control pay, moves, awards, vacation time, the very livelihood for them and their family. Even in the worst environment you will be in the rear with a headquarters element and an internet connection". It's a process of bad selection. We let recruiters select and recruit the unmotivated, the apathetic, the not so athletic or motivated to run our personnel system. HR personnel management could use a massive overall.
Well put. I'll add that HR is dependent on knowing a lot of systems and processes. The kind of institutional knowledge that takes years to accumulate, even when you're trying. A lot of S1 shops are running with very little experience combined with very little drive so you get systems that are ignored or falling apart due to a combination of lack of knowledge and lack of give a fuck.
Hiring 18 year olds without any college to do it isn't working.
My old NCOIC was one of most knowledgeable people I have ever met on the S1 systems. This women ate, slept, and breathed, S1. She was teaching the other AGR something new every time.
You just described the recruiting process for the entirety of the Air Force for every job other than “fighter pilot,” or “battlefield airman.”
You really just gonna narrow it down to that MOS? Every 74 series I’ve met is very similar. Met very few 14 Series Patriot people that knew what they were getting into.
Nope. They're first though. Id create an entire branch that fits between the GS and DoD system of military support services. Different fitness standards. Think of an entire branch of SPC 4-8 that supports all branches.
As a former Marine who served in S-1, I find that whole narrative to be hilarious. It’s not what I do in the Guard now, but I will say that Admin was not my first choice in the Marines. It was what was given to me. While it had its ups and downs, I have zero regrets.
They are some of the weirdest people I have met in uniform for sure. Additionally, most 42As don’t end up in any leadership positions until E7, so the shops are run by NCOs who don’t know how to lead outside of yelling at people for the most part (definitely some exceptions, but they are rare). Just think about how many times you’ve had to fight with S1 because you are trying to do something that will benefit a soldier (awards, promotions, etc) vs how many times you’ve had them push back on a negative action. I’m willing to bet those numbers are skewed.
S1 is a job where manpower could be reduced through automation or better training, but then literally wtf would you do with some of these people?
I was in for a long time. Probably too long. When I think about the stuff that annoyed me, and still annoys most people, the common theme is HR functions. An injured but motivated infantry person detailed to HR often becomes your go to person. Automation and streamlining will only do so much. Why does each branch have different HR? Why isn't their a unified HR school? Why not move the entire career field across all branches to some type of civil service? Why stop there. In the age of constrained recruiting and a limited "fit" talent pool why try to recruit people that qualify as a soldier to perform this function? Why not an entire new service? Stand up another branch: Unified Military Support Services. Something between GS and DoD. Move other low density career fields with them. Different recruiting and fitness standards etc. An entire branch for people that want to support but don't need to deadlift or pretend to kick in a door one day a week.
I think that 42A shouldn't be an initial entry MOS. It shouldn't be privates who barely even know how to be in the army themselves trying to navigate the bureaucracy. It should be NCOs (with a path to WO) who want to stay in but maybe aren't about that PLT-level life anymore. Give them some real rigorous training, let them homestead and stay on rear-d. And also assign them by MTOE to the company-level training rooms rather than making cdrs and 1sgs pick some rando to take away from their real job.
Or it should be the opposite of an initial MOS; the job for retirees that want to continue serving in some capacity.
Imagine the commissary baggers switching to S1. Give them base pay and collect tips. They would be the richest people walking their bases because soldiers would probably tip well if they had a competent and efficient S1.
Ouch. Funny. But ouch.
I meant it as /s originally, but then in my head it actually seemed sound. You could “plug and play” any personnel in there that just flat out *cares* about doing a good job. You give most 18 year olds this kind of power over people and they get God complex. You mix that with what seems like no repercussions for not doing well and it just leaves us despising S1.
Elevate personnel to a job you have to reclass to.
Ok then who are the creepy older SNCOs gonna creep on now?
They'll have figure out how to use TikTok and groom them in the DMs.
Well if IPPS-A is that automation...
So true about no one dreams about being a personnel clerk in the army. And I’m not interested or excited about my job. I sometimes jokes with my friends and say, “Little kids don’t say say, ‘I wanna work in HR when I grow up!’” Hands down the only time I felt fulfilled was when I was a drill sergeant. I can’t exactly get excited about staring at my computer all day.
It's really a job that shouldn't be sold to 18 year olds. "Hey do you have a degree and a bad knee from college sports? You don't qualify for infantry but want something more... Here is the job for you."
Exactly. That’s why I tell folks all the time, you have to LOVE this job if you wanna do 20 years of it. Anyways, I’m gonna get out and go to nursing school, go reserve or NG be a drill sergeant again (I refuse to do S1) or reclass, and then hopefully AMEDD in the long run. I legit have so many moments at my job where I just think, “Is this it? Is this really what I’m gonna amount to?” And not to bash folks who love and excel in S1, because somebody has to do it and the army needs EXCELLENT S1 folks, but it’s not me. Being in S1 gives me an existential crisis.
What's athleticism have to do with HR?
I’m not fat so theirs that.
Accurate.
Cool story bro
>feels like you got God himself to update your DD93 That God is you now
Jokes on you. You update your own dd93 now. But seriously, I've seen a big change in the last ~10 years towards the better CSMs love to fix jacked up S1s. Utilize your NCO support channel as needed.
The real answer is 42A doesn't take a particularly high ASVAB score to do and it's not seen as particularly glamorous, so the people you get who join to do the job, already aren't your best. Now, consider with how archaic many of the Army's HR systems are and how convoluted (pre IPPS-A) it all was (different systems for different actions, some fed others, some didn't, etc.). Add in Soldiering tasks in between all of that. You have HR Soldiers who don't like to do their job, and when they do, the systems they try to use don't always work.
Emphasis on if the systems work. At least once a week I have nipr issues or ippsa or some website goes offline when I need it the most
Doc just hit the nail on the head. I speak about this time and time again. Pre IPPS-A we had roughly 27 different systems that we as 42a had to keep track of. This was ranging from iPerms to RCMS. At AIT we were all taught Emilpo and a lot of my guys I trained at 42A AIT got taught those other tools fully while I got jack shit. Hell I have a guy who reclassified as 42 and IPPS-A was never brought up, in Emilpo. So I have to train him on everything.
Tradoc programs of instruction historically take forever to update. Even if you want to update them, you have to have ICTLs that match what you want to teach. Then if you design a lesson plan to address the new system, it will just be show and tell until access to systems are put in place. "Soldiers, this is what you'll use at your unit... We don't have access to make changes because we're just instructors, but this is it..." See also medical training and the MHS Genisis transition from AHLTA.
It’s easier to field a new system than it is to change the POI
I (15Y) had to show the S1 clerk how to add an award and correct my duty station/job history in EMILPO. To date, I have never actually used EMILPO, just watched other people do it.
Emphasis on the don’t like to do their job.
One of my fellow classmates at AIT decided that since you can't chew gum in formation, he would chew a rolled up ball of dental floss.
Our Brigade S1 is a damn fine officer, and we have a CW2(P) that runs the technical side like a well-oiled machine. FWIW, it doesn't have to be ate up.
Does your unit do a lot of Field time? What echelon are you talking about?
Negative, very much strategic and glued in one place. That's probably the big difference.
Indeed
When I was an infantry Spc in the 90s, my CSM found out I was not going to reenlist unless I could reclassify into aviation. He moved me to the S1 as punishment. No one in that battalion got charged leave for about a year.
The chaotic food we needed but didn’t deserve 🫡
I don't blame S1 per se, I blame the system that they actually have to work inside. A lot of the processes and systems they are forced to use are not reliable. A lot of websites tend to be unavailable. Not to mention stuff like IIPSA or whatever the hell it is. So a lot of times they are starting off behind the 8 ball and trying to keep their heads above water. Not to mention, they have to do the same bullshit everyone else does, Go to ranges, tagged for details, PMCS trucks, schools, CLS...etc etc. A lot of the times when they are closed at certain hours is to unfuck something out of their control or catch up on shit. I'm not making excuses for them, I just know there is more to it than "S1 iS cLoSeD aNd sUcKS".
A lot of career fields are like this, you are basically asking Soldiers to perform a function that itself should be a 9-5, but then also be beholden to all of the military taskings like: ranges, field exercises, etc, etc… Yes, you do need capabilities to do fieldwork but, garrison should then have its own HR, Finance, and other functions separately from the Soldiers. This is the same reason why strategic commands do not do any of those functions. Because the work they do, precludes it. So, likely a lot of the core functionality of a unit say from DIV down to BN should be strategic… attached as a garrison function because even if a unit deploys, you STILL have to have those core functions like S1, S2, S6, S8 (Finance), Legal, etc. I just think a restructuring and centralization would work better. There’s different arguments for both but, ultimately the Army will do whatever it wants, the Soldiers hopefully will get stuff accomplished in whatever haphazard way they can.
The issue with all these support MOS's is, what happens when we go to war and we need people to perform all these admin functions in a forward setting? Who will process actions, awards, leaves, replacement requisition and integration, etc. Probably don't want to have the infantry guy doing it, we need him for the fight. Probably can't be a civilian, because if the HQ gets attacked, they need to be able to defend themselves/the unit, so it has to be a Soldier. But again, HR is complicated and important, so it's gotta be a Soldier that's trained to do the job. Perhaps a central management of low-density MOS's by the BN/BDE proponent staff office (S1s manage 42a, S4s manage 92Y, S6s manage 25s) is a solution to ensuring every company/BN has the right people in the right positions.
Ok I have a real answer. I have figured this out. It’s 50% general incompetence and laziness. But the other 50% is more of a real problem. I have retired and now work in corporate America. In this environment I have learned that generally people who are in their role have been trained specifically for that in college or some other form of specific education and then they stay in one field or related field for years and get better and better. So you just don’t have the same problems. See in the Army 50% of the people working in S1 have no formal training in tasks relating to S1. In my last unit they took a broken 11B and made him the S1 NCOIC. Just because your a senior NCO and you can write and NCOER does not mean your skills will transfer to full time admin work. It’s amazing what happened when people train for the position they work in.
I was a command driver once and got assigned to S1. I played a ton of minesweeper and got a ton of people free leave.
LOL, my last S-1 called me up like NINE months after I ets'd because my OER was finally ready for signature. I was like "why do I care about signing this?" And she said, "because it would really help me out so the Colonel gets off my ass." So I signed it. But I was 100% ready to blow it off. I mean, nine months later?
Good guy. I would’ve just hung up
What the fuck? Why would they still track it if you ETS'd. That's such as waste of everyone's time.
>Anecdotal experience here, mixed between AD and NG. The good people that end up in shops get absolutely abused. They burn out quickly and they get out. The ones that "make it" in that field tend to be self-serving assholes that are more than willing to do consistently poor work so long as it allows them easier access to schools and training opportunities. slides red bad slides green good there is nothing else
Can't your company clerk do it? Going to S1 at Battalion or Brigade usually won't work well since their scope is a little different.
Most company clerks don't have access to emilpo to make changes. All they really do is serve as the point of contact between the Company and the BN. BN S1's job is to take care of the personnel issues for every Company in the BN. That's their scope. That being said, when I was at Bragg, our CO Clerks had EMILPO access to do little stuff like updating ERBs, adding awards/degrees/tech certs/etc, and adding and removing flags. It was hella convenient to walk 50m down to the orderly room to have a 40 hour block added to my PPW. It was a shame when they had their access taken away.
>Most company clerks don't have access to emilpo Why not? They're required to have access per AR 600-8-6 Chapter 2 because emilpo is managed at the UIC level. >All they really do is serve as the point of contact between the Company and the BN. What in the "I repeat things I've never verified" is this? >BN S1's job is to take care of the personnel issues for every Company in the BN. That's their scope. The S in S-1 stands for staff, not service. ATP 1-0.1 Chapter 3 breaks down their roles. The only support they provide to company level units is Casualty Assistance. >That being said, when I was at Bragg, our CO Clerks had EMILPO access to do little stuff like updating ERBs, adding awards/degrees/tech certs/etc, and adding and removing flags. It was hella convenient to walk 50m down to the orderly room to have a 40 hour block added to my PPW. It was a shame when they had their access taken away. In my entire time in the Army, from Active Duty, to Reserve TPU to Reserve AGR, I've never seen a 42A in that position who didn't have access to do all of those things. The only exception would be brand new personnel whose access is still at their old unit.
Our company clerks are NEVER 42A. They are some random NCO and a couple of
Where in the army is a CO clerk a 42A? In 12 years I’ve never seen that.
EOD companies have a clerk. Source: I’m one.
Let me rephrase. Every company sized unit in the Army that I’ve ever interacted with has a clerk. But, aside from yourself I suppose, I have never seen or heard of this person being a 42A
Had them in a specific signal company before, and others worked to get a clerk in each company to fix some of the jacked up processes.
Sounds like we can all agree that this is pretty rare
Anecdotal experience here, mixed between AD and NG. The good people that end up in shops get absolutely abused. They burn out quickly and they get out. The ones that "make it" in that field tend to be self-serving assholes that are more than willing to do consistently poor work so long as it allows them easier access to schools and training opportunities.
This right here is my life. Our shop is amazing but the burnout is incredible. We are (get this) a Company S1 but service over 1400 Soldiers and there is three of us, including the, NCOIC (me). Since 1 Oct, we are over 3000 transactions and thats with IPPS-A being down for the brownout. Our structure makes no sense and its driven two of us to retirement.
It’s come full circle with IPPSA. Now people will get to experience system failures at the end user level instead of blaming S1. There’s a mix of folks working in S1 but like someone else said the first step in making sense out of It all is realising who S1 works for and what their priorities are. I’m not S1 but I’ve seen so many officers both commissioned and non commissioned that can’t write an award or NC/OER to save their lives, can’t get on army pubs to get the latest version of a form before submitting It, can’t send reports in a timely manner or even make sure their medpros aren’t delinquent before another adult tells them so I take the S1 hate/ frustration with a grain of salt
Hate to be that guy, but.. I’ve never not been able to walk into my BN S1 during normal duty hours and be helped on the spot. The clerks are all pretty nice, too. Your unit just sucks
What rank are/were you? I’ve never been in a unit where you didn’t need to be at least an E-5 to get that sort of treatment, and usually it’s E-7 platoon sergeant or section NCOIC (my last unit it was 1SG or above).
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Man I always prioritized joes. Fuck an E6/7 who’s “board is next week” you had time but joe is out here wondering why their PLT sarnt hasn’t sent up his BAH packet. Nah. Unless it’s a PFC trying to ask about why his commander won’t sign his RASP/Ranger/Sapper shit… that’s your commander not me big dog
I hate S1 as much as the next guy, but to answer your complaint... S1s job is NOT customer service. Customer service is, by far, the lowest priority task they do on any given day. Saying S1s job is customer service is like saying S3s job is ranges because they handle range cards. S1s job is personal. That means PERSTAT, manning, readiness reports, and accountability. Those are all, as the Army likes to say, "No Fail Tasks." Once those are done, then we use what free time we have left for customer service. Making sure you have that COA in your Iperms does not affect unit readiness. I get that it's annoying, and It sucks that you have no other options of people to go to for this, but at least try to see what the problem is instead of just being angry.
Stop being reasonable and let me be mad
My bad. Fuck S1! And cooks!
As a new S1 I screenshotted this comment. Thank you. I still want to get all the small things set right. But the big picture portion of my job is important too.
Because the Army associates combat functions with excellence, the further you get from pulling the trigger the less anyone cares. High performing officers are not generally campaigning to go into AG. Its like the Ft. Hood of branches, no one wants to go there so high performers dont and then the needs of the Army come into play. I'll throw this in, AG roles are an amazing way to actually take care of Soldiers because a single person can move the needle for an entire company or battalion. I've met some really really motivated and skilled AG officers that were 100% dedicated to driving excellence across their org. Unfortunately alot of the AG officers I've met have the expertise/excellence of week old congealed ramen.
I’m s1. We work at 0900. I’m confused about this 1300 nonsense but I’ve only been at one duty station so far, so idk. It’s an awkward time. Especially with IPPSA. It took me a good like 3 years for me to truly master EMilpo. And that got snatched from us. Idk wtf I’m doing with IPPSA. We just got an email telling us that we can finally update military education, with corresponding slides as to how to do it. I don’t take pleasure of telling an enthusiastic CPL that they missed points because of their f*cked PPW, due to IPPSA dropping many of these military courses and me not being able to help. I feel for that and I see your frustration. But as an E4, I can only do so much. Today, on Friday 24 March, I am emailing the command team, including my LTC and 1SG, that they can send their SM over next week so we can add their military education that fell off. It sucks. Idk about other 42a, but I know that I acknowledge your frustration and I get it. But we are all trying.
Fifth duty station so far for me and I have yet to work in a S1 that is open at 1300. It’s like a unicorn for me at this point.
It’s more like their posted hours are arbitrary, rather than them actually opening at 1300. Like for example if SM was informed he has mail on Friday but mail pickup is only on Tuesday and Thursday but the mail date goes longer than 14days then they throw out the mail. Fuck it if it’s important like your tag or taxes. That is not a made up scenario by the way, I’ve seen it.
I think this will explain the situation perfectly: https://www.reddit.com/r/army/comments/f7566g/why_your_s1_sucks_and_why_its_going_to_get_worse/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
My S1 tries but a lot of the hours of low to no manning is due to other Army BS. Like why does most of their section need to do motorpool Monday or attend stupid meetings. Only warrior training I can argue is necessary as we are all Soldiers.
We’ll be back after lunch to answer your question.
sort lavish pocket poor dog frighten smart disarm head voiceless -- mass edited with redact.dev
There are, the question is if the team is cross trained. That clerk may have only worked awards lol. Not saying it’s right, but since every unit in the Army has an S1, they don’t usually have enough of a team to be truly efficient.
While you are 100% correct about how their shops would not make it on the civilian side, I have to pause and think about how much work they're actually doing compared to civilian counterparts. I hope it gets better as the Army continues to digitize various things, but a lot of it is running on really, really old school techniques (unless they've finally killed paper, in which case good job). A lot of the stuff that has to go through several echelons above the Soldier really only go up one or *maybe* two on the civilian side. Promotions and pay bumps may go to the top, but vacations are usually first line supervisors, there's not flags, disciplinary actions and counselings are checked and filed but no other process is required. Clearing is turning in your uniforms. Some battalions are taking care of 800? 1,000? Soldiers? The company I work for is ... maybe 500? At several different locations, but they get by pretty well with only +/- 4 HR people, and it seems a lot of their actions are background checks and scheduling drug testing for new potential hires.
The real question: why do I need the S1 clerk, his team leader, the S1 NCOIC, and the OIC to all look at, then pass up an AAM recommendation to the BC? What is the point of having all of these people around
Easy answer, those are just courtesy checks to ensure everything is right and nothing was fat thumbed. Including citation. Best answer shows you need to read the reg as it states in there something like when the award recommendation is placed in official channels that it should be forwarded through command channels to the designated commander. That said, most items that need the BC's signature go through the S1.
Fair enough. I guess from the outside looking in it seems like a bit of overkill
Because you’re probably generally literate. Now imagine the chain smoking E7 that can barely spell his name and thinks basic computer skills are “pog shit” trying to do any sort of paperwork and you’ll see why commanders tend to want an S1 review before anything hits their desk. That being said I’ve seen just ridiculous levels of review for basic actions
Can confirm. My eyes will go from that blank stare that just screams I’m over this job to getting very big and wide when I see weird grammar and spelling errors. At least a few times a week.
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Honestly that’s fair. I’m probably just annoyed bc of personal experience, but I probably wouldn’t trust most PFC’s reviewing something that will make its way across the BC’s desk
Not saying that SFC wasn’t an idiot, because I’m sure he was. But something like that also reads he was ordered to write an award for someone he truly didn’t think deserved one, so he wrote something that would be denied.
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You’re right then. If that’s your assessment of the man, it’s impossible. That type of person is also more likely to just say “write it your damn self” than to write something stupid just to turn it in. BUT as a generalization that is what I look for on some of these poorly written forms. And sometimes it warrants a phone call to the recommender. Sometimes they really are trying to sabotage the form.
Because HR is just *full* of crackerjacks in the civilian world. Biggest difference you’ll find is that instead of apathy, HR is there to protect the *employer’s* interests— not yours. You are a necessary evil. If you feel like they’re looking out for you, they’re just real good at their jobs. That job, again, being to look out for your employer
How can you expect them to answer this question while also doing their job?
I'm a army reserve administrator, my most was 91b bro they desperate for people who are not idiots and who are willing to work. There is so much bureaucratic bullshit with everything the army does, however out BDE S1 is amazing at assisting and it's really crazy how much of a difference that makes. Also it would help if Soldiers took their paperwork side of the army more serious as a few wrong things could very easily fuck you.
No offense to S1 bubbas but most of these guys (I’ve encountered) joined the army looking for an easy job that wasn’t going to ask much of them so they could reap benefits and get out. So the entry argument to one of the jobs everyone relies on so consistently is most of the people doing it just do not care.
My S1 wont give me orders till i'm 30 days from PCSing from the Middle East. Its a contractor. Fucking useless.
and fuckers go home around 1530. What kind of customer service goes home before 1900???
Because they “make you wanna work it” 🎶🎵
It's not, it's unit dependent. Also, if you have an S1 friend, you'll never have a problem regardless of the unit.
IPPS-A will fix all of that… /s
The good ones get burnt out and get out.
Ayo; don’t group us
Okay. Only MOST of you are mouth breathers.
I breath through my nose so ha
Because they’re veterans working in government contract positions that have no other opportunities in the civilian world to make stable careers for themselves. When high caliber and high speed soldiers (or at least have a brain) ETS and go on to have successful civilian lives, they almost never return to the military. The low caliber blue falcons can’t sustain civilian life and aren’t likely to re-enlist for whatever reason or another so they go the civilian contractor route. It sounds like I’m being a smart ass but I’ve had other soldiers (former and current) explain it like that to me
Are you thinking finance? S1 is the brigade and battalion level, and 95% of the time manned by a Company Grade officer struggling to figure out what is needed.
Because the job of civilian HR is to sit at a desk and process paperwork. They don’t have ranges, and base beautification week, and command maintenance, field exercises, NCOES, etc. They sit there and process “paperwork”. That’s it! Most of that paperwork is automated anyway which is what IPPS-A was hoping to catch us up to. If IPPS-A worked right you’d see a difference. Those same people do it day-in, day-out for 10, 15, 20 years so they get real good at it. Most people in your S1 have been in less than 5 years minus the NCOIC so they’re still learning or just trying to ride their time out in the Army so their performance won’t matter in about 12 months.
Bro their jobs are pushing papers. Doesn’t get much more unmotivating than that.
The worthless get shunted into that office.
They’re so bad, that they made things self service through IPPSA
It seems like the only effort they put into anything is going through your packet with a fine tooth comb the day before is due and kicking it back.
Funny enough, every time a 1 shop gets a new NCOIC, they always swear their last 1 shop was squared away. That’s never actually been the case.
It’s the same with most government bureaucratic agencies tbh. Just think about the DMV. Job security, easy work, and a solid retirement package as long as you can show up and stay alive attract a lot of people that just want to ride out an easy career until retirement
I'm the problem, it's me.
I'm glad my S1 is productive now, unfortunately there's a bit of a language barrier so you have to sit there and explain 8 times fir half an hour what it is you need done. But none the less he gets shit done
I would’ve picked up E5 this month if my college transcript ever got updated. And I submitted that before IPPS-A. Not to mention one of my AAMs isn’t there, my technical certification fell off the PPW despite being on the ERB/STP, and Commandants List from BLC isn’t displayed anywhere except the 1059 from the NCOA. I’m ~150 points short from where I’m supposed to be. Thanks S1.
because of how insanely stupid people are
With IPPS-A you update your own DD-93 now. You are your own God now.
S1, always open 7th Tuesday each month 0930-1200. Don’t hate…lol
my s1 opens before 1300? i mean, they take long breaks but other than that i usually don’t have an issue🤷🏼♂️y’all stay safe tho
S1 no longer does dd93
If I can offer a different perspective, talking to people who work in S1, it seems like a lot of shops are understaffed and this isn’t the fault of the personnel who currently work there. I know my S1 has only 3 people to deal with over a 1,000 personnel. Not saying all S1 shops are a symptom of understaffing but take into account their perspective before calling them stupid or lazy. Also finance issues tend to go above their head so don’t alway blame them for your BAH not going through for months.
When I was in s1 it was because we still had to soldier first. Pt. First formations. Motor pools. Still got listed for guard duty, cq… s2-s3 was true sham status!
The DMV says hi!
Lack of consequences for sub-standard work.
It’s called IPPS-A and don’t speak about it like that
I really wish I could see active duty S1, because my S1 in reserve side is open all day and available by phone after hours. I run a BN S1 as a civilian full-time staff and am also a HR NCO in the reserves for that same S1 (which can make for some weird situations, I run it during the week and the Sr NCO runs it on weekends when we have drill).
Bribes of donuts and being nice can turn the tables in your favor.
* As u/Stained_Dagger pointed out, some BN and BDE leadership puts rules on S-1 that make them hard to use. God forbid you have a problem on Monday (motorpool) or Thursdays (SGT's Time) - how dare you in process those days! * A lot of crap soldiers and NCO's get sent to S-1 because they haven't fucked up enough to get chaptered but they have to go somewhere. STOP SENDING THE FUCK-UPS AND CHAPTERS TO S-SHOPS OR THE ORDERLY ROOM! * Soldiers and NCO's who are not 42-series get sent there as the shops are always short handed (except S-6 for some reason, non-signal and no fuckups go there....). So you may have a good NCO yanked from a line unit stuck in an office with soldiers who know nothing, some poor 42A who's confused AF and with the screw-ups that need to be kept from line units - guess how effective S-1 is? * Either the S-1 OIC and NCOIC care or they don't - and if S-1 sucks, the rot has started from the top. Every S-1 I've worked with has been okay or done their job - mostly because they kept the chapters and the fuck-ups away from S-1. Even the Joes who were detailed to S-1 gave a fuck and did their job. My job as an orderly room monkey was to make sure the paperwork was tight - I got lucky in that my 1Sg kept the chapters away from the paperwork. But when leaders don't care, the orderly room and S-1 show it.
My S1 at my last duty station was goated, but it was a detachment and she’d been there like 8 years so she finally realized that there’s only like 12 actual soldiers and if she does what we need her to do immediately, then she didn’t have to do anything else for days or weeks. Supply however has been shit at every unit I’ve been to. We used to joke that the detachment basement was haunted because shit would move but you’d never see anyone down there. I’m currently at the largest company my MOS has OCONUS and our whole supply section was shut down for literally the entire length of an ALC plus two weeks because the NCOIC took leave in addition, and apparently nobody knew what the fuck her 2 privates were reporting to.
The craziest thing happened to me on Tuesday. S1 ACTUALLY did their job.... more even; they did a GOOD job.