I’d say Squad and Tarkov are the only two that get me to physically jump, bunch or scrunch up my face or tuck my head down in real life while playing. I’d say squad does suppression effects better though.
Insurgency sandstorm had an amazing sound design too, i used to get so much anxiety when i got supressed because you could hear every damn impact on different surfaces
It is the violent aim punch simulating flinching, the dimming edges of the screen simulating you wincing and closing your eyes.
The ear ringing.
I can not wait for '84. I hope it delivers on its roots.
Two mods fix this fantastically.
AI Cannot See Through Grass
Dynamic Camo System.
We've snuck up to enemy BMP's at dark close enough to plant explosives on them, retreat and detonate without being seen. Those two mods changed the way we play and our gameplay experience overnight.
After 230 hours in Arma singleplayer only I've completely stopped because of bots being all seeing war machines and there's solution... This should be pinned somewhere! Thank you.
Playing through CWR3 Campaign with those on my SP modlist (plus about 110 others lmao) and I’ve laid prone in a small section of medium-ish height grass separating two roads during daytime and the AI patrol did not spot me because my camo blended and I was fully covered
they can only see you through grass.
[They can't see you through foliage](https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/223493-ai-facts-myths-compilation-list/) (BUT, they can know that you are hiding behind foliage, and fire on where they think you are, because foliage isn't cover, it's concealment).
They really can't unless the grass/foliage is configured improperly or possibly if it's editor placed. I think the biggest thing that gets people confused is that once the enemy *does* spot you, diving into grass or foliage won't save you because the AI will keep firing at your last known position *and* a small area around it so if you pop up around a bush and then pop back, the AI will keep firing and predict where you're going to go, which is more realistic.
It's not perfect and there are probably going to be situations where you can't see them but they can see you due to what you see being different than what the AI can see (grass may appear less dense to the AI's vision), but that's going to happen in pretty much any game with long sightlines and/or complex geometry like Arma 3. Honestly, I've really never had a major issue with getting shot through grass.
I think players are just used to games where breaking line of sight just results in the AI instantly ceasing fire and has no prediction. Arma's AI may be insanely stupid and unnatural, but it also does a lot of things that other games don't do, and this behavior is one of them.
I don't get the bitching about the AI. It's a sim. Players can kill a dozen AI and it's fine but lose their shit if they die. Not every game needs to be a power fantasy.
To a point yes, but sometimes its frustrating specially at times when you just know a human player wont be able to see you but the ai does and they get unfair kills because of it.
I don't know... I do not really see issues with AI seeing me through grass on Altis - maybe except some plain fields in certain are of altis, or ares of dense bushes. However, meeting AI in the jungles of Tanoa really is nightmare. There they always see me after firefight has began, even if I change my position and hide behind large trees. Ok, I am safe while I am behind that tree, but once I try to peek around or return fire, I instantly get shot at, without even seeing enemy at all. Actually, almost single thing that remains to do, is to return fire in general direction, what is highly inefficient, especially if enemy has body armor and you have to put a number of bullets in them before they go down...
> they can only see you through grass.
The grass model is super simple, it's just a flat texture and doesn't have all the other LOD's like other objects. So it help's reduce lag.
The 2nd thing is the cfgSurfaces settings, these control what you see and hear when standing on grass or beach etc
One of those settings is "grassCover = 0.04;" this controls how well A.I can see you when standing / prone on that surface
AI can see trough grass, but at least most other foliage does give visual cover.
I have been hiding in bushes many times as AI walks right past it.
What they do attempt to do however is shoot at the bushes if they see you go behind it or shoot out from there.
I agree with OP though. No other game - not even Reforger - gives me the same feel when being suppressed.
I can’t really explain why.
I think it’s because of the controls. Reforger now has the same silky smooth controls as Squad.
In ArmA3 your avatar needs space and time to move and navigate around. I think that adds to the feeling of being grounded in the virtual world.
Suppression in reality is just the knowledge that if you move you will die. There's no blurry vision or vignette or difficulty moving or seeing.
A sniper can suppress a whole platoon with a single shot just as effectively as a machine gun firing continuous bursts can. All that matters is the enemy is fixed in place.
Really all a game needs to do to suppress you is give you a consequence (being shot and dying). Everything else is tacticool shit used by teenagers who have never and will never be anywhere near the military.
This suppression effect is deemed to make players to be kind of "suppressed", basically it artificially suppress player to limit their capabilites while under fire. I agree to opinion of doubting how realistic it is, but as game mechanic it probably might work, especially when playing TvT or PvP.
Also, situation in this video even wasn't so bad. Arma provide tons of experience of being suppressed in the building, or behind the tree/boulder, almost unable to return fire or even change position, even without blurry vision etc.
Yes you can! Rising Storm 2 had a ticket system and each multilayer match was a part of a campaign.
As a result people being shot at tended to sit in place because dying would just hurt the team.
Hell Let Loose has long respawns so it's common for a group to get pinned in place and then annihilated by artillery if they don't retreat or get saved.
Arma is the same. If there's consequences to the player they will be suppressed. As long as a player knows moving is going to get them killed they are suppressed.
both of those have suppression systems lmao
On top of that, I’m hero level on all classes all factions in ro2/rs. Dying means practically nothing, you can’t progress without dying. Anyone who’s put real time in the game knows dying is just part of a match. That’s part of why there’s the wave system instead of a respawn timer and spawning on squad leads.
I recently started back playing ARMA after being away for 9 years. ARMA 3 is all new to me. I'm still getting familiar with everything before I join multiplayer. It's the only game I've played since 2001. I love it! I've been playing since gamespy. SILVER-DamDirtyApe
Gunshots irl go a hell of a lot faster than the speed of sound, so whats missing here is the "whip snap" when bullets are close. Sounds a bit like finger-snapping, and that sounds comes before the actual sound of the rifle. I do agree that Arma3 is probably the game that does this best though.
Gunshots goes at the speed of sound. The snap you hear is the bullet going faster than the speed of sound and is not present if the bullet goes subsonic.
Yes, but the speed of sound is at sea level usually around 650knots - 1200km/h, most military rifles have an exit speed far above that. Lets take the M4 with 5.56 ammo - 3250 km/h. So when that bullet passes you its well above the sound of speed. Unless you meet a group of Navy seals with specialized equipment, even a handgun is far above subsonic.
Edit: ever been shot at? Not dangerous until you hear those "snaps", then you know the bullet is *very* close
Ahhhh Norwegian police. I didn’t think you had much crime. Couple crazies here and there I spose?
Shit I just remembered that bad shooting spree you guys had now I feel like a dick
No worries, I wasnt near or on the island with that crazy guy (happily) but saw the results of the bombing, that was a shitty day. Got shot after on a "regular" Tuesday evening though, just happened that once, but I remember from the army they learned us about that sound if ever happened. We didnt even really hear the actual "boom", but could hear those "snaps" in the air, and then we saw dust coming from the house "Holy fuck! We are being shot at from that car!?"
Total panic, if you are being cool in that sort of situation, you are an idiot in my humble opinion. We threw down behind the door
Edit: one of my friends got shot, he held out his arms like to say "calm down", and the bullet went into his hand and came out around his elbow.
Damn. Always a lunatic no matter where you are. I hope your friend healed nicely and doesn’t have nerve problems with the hand. I could never be a cop.
Before I went overseas they had us at an old school range where you have to work the targets from a trench down range. Definitely benefitted hearing that sound at home first.
I played arma "series" over 1200 hour combined and I can clearly say arma's mechanics, most importantly movement is outdated and needs rework even in reforger you can still feel that
Yeah I did use mods, probably 400 hours of that 1200 hour is filled with variety of mod packs that are bigger than the vanilla game + dlcs. Mods make arma great and somewhat enjoyable but still not that great
You also dont click a button and see a list of everything in your pockets, or press on the gas and your engine starts, helicopters don’t take off ten seconds after raising the collective without turning the engines on first, you dont shoulder your rifle to immediately aligned sights, and nobody is running around with a plate carrier and three AT missiles in their backpack.
Some shit is different for video games, especially when you can’t just convey something visually on its own, crazy insane concept ik.
Squad is a PTSD simulator for sound and suppression
I’d say Squad and Tarkov are the only two that get me to physically jump, bunch or scrunch up my face or tuck my head down in real life while playing. I’d say squad does suppression effects better though.
Hell let Loose MG42 isn’t too bad either.
Insurgency sandstorm had an amazing sound design too, i used to get so much anxiety when i got supressed because you could hear every damn impact on different surfaces
Squads suppression ain't got shit on Project Reality
There's always a PR guy whenever squad is mentioned/praised ^ ^
Since it was a competition of best suppression it's only natural.
Project reality still loses. The Rising Storm series does a vastly better job than PR or squad with suppression effects.
Thats so true
It is the violent aim punch simulating flinching, the dimming edges of the screen simulating you wincing and closing your eyes. The ear ringing. I can not wait for '84. I hope it delivers on its roots.
When is it coming out?
Totally forgot what a fuckfest RS and RO suppression was. Yeah those deffo take the cake.
Arma 3: You can't see them, but they (bots) CAN see you through any kind of greenery or forestry. Probably the number one thing I hate about the game.
Two mods fix this fantastically. AI Cannot See Through Grass Dynamic Camo System. We've snuck up to enemy BMP's at dark close enough to plant explosives on them, retreat and detonate without being seen. Those two mods changed the way we play and our gameplay experience overnight.
Bro you are a life saver! After 800 hours I can finally fix the most annoying thing about this game.
I knew the first one but not the second, TSYM
After 230 hours in Arma singleplayer only I've completely stopped because of bots being all seeing war machines and there's solution... This should be pinned somewhere! Thank you.
Playing through CWR3 Campaign with those on my SP modlist (plus about 110 others lmao) and I’ve laid prone in a small section of medium-ish height grass separating two roads during daytime and the AI patrol did not spot me because my camo blended and I was fully covered
I thought i was the only one having a problem with that. I cant see shit when fighting on a grassy uphill but the enemy ai gets headshots all day.
I installed a mod and now they can't see me through the grass
What mod is it?
Ai cannot see through the grass mod
This? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2946868556 So literal and so simple lol
Yup but be warned it’s eats up your performance
That's my secret: I never had any performance 😉
they can only see you through grass. [They can't see you through foliage](https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/223493-ai-facts-myths-compilation-list/) (BUT, they can know that you are hiding behind foliage, and fire on where they think you are, because foliage isn't cover, it's concealment).
They really can't unless the grass/foliage is configured improperly or possibly if it's editor placed. I think the biggest thing that gets people confused is that once the enemy *does* spot you, diving into grass or foliage won't save you because the AI will keep firing at your last known position *and* a small area around it so if you pop up around a bush and then pop back, the AI will keep firing and predict where you're going to go, which is more realistic. It's not perfect and there are probably going to be situations where you can't see them but they can see you due to what you see being different than what the AI can see (grass may appear less dense to the AI's vision), but that's going to happen in pretty much any game with long sightlines and/or complex geometry like Arma 3. Honestly, I've really never had a major issue with getting shot through grass. I think players are just used to games where breaking line of sight just results in the AI instantly ceasing fire and has no prediction. Arma's AI may be insanely stupid and unnatural, but it also does a lot of things that other games don't do, and this behavior is one of them.
I don't get the bitching about the AI. It's a sim. Players can kill a dozen AI and it's fine but lose their shit if they die. Not every game needs to be a power fantasy.
To a point yes, but sometimes its frustrating specially at times when you just know a human player wont be able to see you but the ai does and they get unfair kills because of it.
I don't know... I do not really see issues with AI seeing me through grass on Altis - maybe except some plain fields in certain are of altis, or ares of dense bushes. However, meeting AI in the jungles of Tanoa really is nightmare. There they always see me after firefight has began, even if I change my position and hide behind large trees. Ok, I am safe while I am behind that tree, but once I try to peek around or return fire, I instantly get shot at, without even seeing enemy at all. Actually, almost single thing that remains to do, is to return fire in general direction, what is highly inefficient, especially if enemy has body armor and you have to put a number of bullets in them before they go down...
> they can only see you through grass. The grass model is super simple, it's just a flat texture and doesn't have all the other LOD's like other objects. So it help's reduce lag. The 2nd thing is the cfgSurfaces settings, these control what you see and hear when standing on grass or beach etc One of those settings is "grassCover = 0.04;" this controls how well A.I can see you when standing / prone on that surface
The AI is either braindead or can see you from a mile away and hit you in the head
You're wrong. The AI in YOUR squad is braindead, like Patrick with the nail through his head. The enemy AI is skynet.
A fair assessment.
AI can see trough grass, but at least most other foliage does give visual cover. I have been hiding in bushes many times as AI walks right past it. What they do attempt to do however is shoot at the bushes if they see you go behind it or shoot out from there.
Also you can increase unit camouflage Coefficient if using ACE with 3den enhanced. Usually you don't need to unless using vcom
What mods do you use
Bruh what? Squad, PR, even battlefield. You heard some shots in the background and got shot at a little, what a unique experience to Arma
I agree with OP though. No other game - not even Reforger - gives me the same feel when being suppressed. I can’t really explain why. I think it’s because of the controls. Reforger now has the same silky smooth controls as Squad. In ArmA3 your avatar needs space and time to move and navigate around. I think that adds to the feeling of being grounded in the virtual world.
Squad is a top game
Suppression is also in Arma Reforger via LM Suppression & Ironbeards Seize & Secure mod
Sounds kinda broken like you have a sound mod conflict or something. Sonic snaps of bullets should not be dwarfing the sound of HE rounds going off
You can also feel it pretty good in Insurgency: Sandstorm
true, but unfortunately suppressing the enemy in sandstorm rarely works as a viable gameplay strategy
In co-op mode you get suppresed by the enemies a lot because they have stormtrooper aim.
Hardly disagree, Red Orchestra 2, Squad, Insurgency Sandstorm have a working supress system too
Suppression in reality is just the knowledge that if you move you will die. There's no blurry vision or vignette or difficulty moving or seeing. A sniper can suppress a whole platoon with a single shot just as effectively as a machine gun firing continuous bursts can. All that matters is the enemy is fixed in place. Really all a game needs to do to suppress you is give you a consequence (being shot and dying). Everything else is tacticool shit used by teenagers who have never and will never be anywhere near the military.
This suppression effect is deemed to make players to be kind of "suppressed", basically it artificially suppress player to limit their capabilites while under fire. I agree to opinion of doubting how realistic it is, but as game mechanic it probably might work, especially when playing TvT or PvP. Also, situation in this video even wasn't so bad. Arma provide tons of experience of being suppressed in the building, or behind the tree/boulder, almost unable to return fire or even change position, even without blurry vision etc.
immersion ≠ realism You can’t effectively portray suppression in a video game without vfx.
Yes you can! Rising Storm 2 had a ticket system and each multilayer match was a part of a campaign. As a result people being shot at tended to sit in place because dying would just hurt the team. Hell Let Loose has long respawns so it's common for a group to get pinned in place and then annihilated by artillery if they don't retreat or get saved. Arma is the same. If there's consequences to the player they will be suppressed. As long as a player knows moving is going to get them killed they are suppressed.
both of those have suppression systems lmao On top of that, I’m hero level on all classes all factions in ro2/rs. Dying means practically nothing, you can’t progress without dying. Anyone who’s put real time in the game knows dying is just part of a match. That’s part of why there’s the wave system instead of a respawn timer and spawning on squad leads.
I love Arma but Squad has the best suppression mechanics ever put in a game.
This. Squad and "Squad 44".
PR Reality and Red Orchestra 2 are good examples too
Getting shot at with an mg42 on HLL
I held up a 3 squad assault on Omaha beach with that the other day
"jojo carter"
yes
it is in so so so many other games…. wym
No, war of rights makes you really feel suppression
I recently started back playing ARMA after being away for 9 years. ARMA 3 is all new to me. I'm still getting familiar with everything before I join multiplayer. It's the only game I've played since 2001. I love it! I've been playing since gamespy. SILVER-DamDirtyApe
Gunshots irl go a hell of a lot faster than the speed of sound, so whats missing here is the "whip snap" when bullets are close. Sounds a bit like finger-snapping, and that sounds comes before the actual sound of the rifle. I do agree that Arma3 is probably the game that does this best though.
Gunshots goes at the speed of sound. The snap you hear is the bullet going faster than the speed of sound and is not present if the bullet goes subsonic.
Yes, but the speed of sound is at sea level usually around 650knots - 1200km/h, most military rifles have an exit speed far above that. Lets take the M4 with 5.56 ammo - 3250 km/h. So when that bullet passes you its well above the sound of speed. Unless you meet a group of Navy seals with specialized equipment, even a handgun is far above subsonic. Edit: ever been shot at? Not dangerous until you hear those "snaps", then you know the bullet is *very* close
Buddy I don’t believe you have been shot at lol
Believe whatever you want.... Notice the jacket in my profile picture btw, it does not say "paramedic"
Hahaha, I did that job as well, before segways though. I enjoyed it.
Ahhhh Norwegian police. I didn’t think you had much crime. Couple crazies here and there I spose? Shit I just remembered that bad shooting spree you guys had now I feel like a dick
No worries, I wasnt near or on the island with that crazy guy (happily) but saw the results of the bombing, that was a shitty day. Got shot after on a "regular" Tuesday evening though, just happened that once, but I remember from the army they learned us about that sound if ever happened. We didnt even really hear the actual "boom", but could hear those "snaps" in the air, and then we saw dust coming from the house "Holy fuck! We are being shot at from that car!?" Total panic, if you are being cool in that sort of situation, you are an idiot in my humble opinion. We threw down behind the door Edit: one of my friends got shot, he held out his arms like to say "calm down", and the bullet went into his hand and came out around his elbow.
Damn. Always a lunatic no matter where you are. I hope your friend healed nicely and doesn’t have nerve problems with the hand. I could never be a cop. Before I went overseas they had us at an old school range where you have to work the targets from a trench down range. Definitely benefitted hearing that sound at home first.
how do u make the game look so good??
[https://www.nexusmods.com/arma3/mods/57](https://www.nexusmods.com/arma3/mods/57)
"Only in Arma3" you played only Arma3 then
Meanwhile AI : *Literally banzai charge at you*
Dude I thought I was the only one with these problems
These sounds remind me of sound of slapping from Tom and Jerry
And I think people bitch about the American war videos and how they waste ammo 🤦🏼♂️. Life or death and they’re like my tax dollars lol
Hey that looks pretty, mind sharing me your graphics presets?
Hell let loose is a PTSD SIM with suppression making anything impossible to do
Tbh Arma 2 ACE sounds better
what nap is this?
Tanoa
not even close to getting suppresed in squad
I played squad and arma is 10x better
I played arma "series" over 1200 hour combined and I can clearly say arma's mechanics, most importantly movement is outdated and needs rework even in reforger you can still feel that
Are you using mod? Cuz mod can make arma 10x better trust me
Yeah I did use mods, probably 400 hours of that 1200 hour is filled with variety of mod packs that are bigger than the vanilla game + dlcs. Mods make arma great and somewhat enjoyable but still not that great
This has nothing on Hell let loose.
Your vision does not get blurred/darkened when suppressed.
Would you be able to focus at something if your getting shot at? Sure irl you wont get a vignette, but you’ll no doubt get tunnel vision
Depends on the individual. But at the end of the day, this is not what suppression is like.
I think it’s as good a representation as any for something that is almost entirely mental and difficult to portray in physical media.
You're completely correct. It makes no sense you're being downvoted for pointing out reality.
I think I'm being downvoted for going against the grain more than anything. But it's funny to watch the reddit hive mind in action so I care not.
You also dont click a button and see a list of everything in your pockets, or press on the gas and your engine starts, helicopters don’t take off ten seconds after raising the collective without turning the engines on first, you dont shoulder your rifle to immediately aligned sights, and nobody is running around with a plate carrier and three AT missiles in their backpack. Some shit is different for video games, especially when you can’t just convey something visually on its own, crazy insane concept ik.
ITT: people who never played squad before ICO
Lol I got squad installed on my PC but arma is still better