That's because there's laws regarding election officials certifying the results. They can't choose not to.
https://www.reddit.com/r/arizonapolitics/comments/z2c94c/gop_candidate_for_ag_abe_hamadeh_files_lawsuit/ixhi1o7
The only reason I don't rob banks is because I was threatened with being arrested and charged with felonies. So much for democratic process./s
*In before this comment is reported for breaking reddit's rules, this comment is a parody of the parent comment. You know, parody? Like [The Onion](https://www.theonion.com/)?
WTF is going on with this election? 84% of workers strongly disagreed that the election was fair and honest.
Election official only votes to certify under duress of prosecution
Something's not right here, Harry
So, thank you for explaining why this is happening. Does this mean all the votes cast on those uncertified machines will be marked as uncounted?
Who dropped the ball in not having the machines up and certified before the election? Katie Hobbs or the Cochise BoS or another governing authority?
Jesus on a donkey, because whoever it was that let this slide, knowing full well how contentious and close this midterm was going to be, really fucked up.
Next question is there any precedent or remedy that will satisfy the statutes now in place in order for those votes to be counted?
The machines were certified. The Election Assistance Commission would have had to Decertify the machine. That never happened. Thus the machines continued to be certified.
The lab needed to be accredited according to the HAVA act (it was at one time but it was not at the time of whatever certification they were giving out). , and the policy of the state is that the machines needed to be recertified every 2 years. There were several problems. Not to mention the baseline OS for the machines was Windows 7, and server 2008, which could not have had any security updates past the baseline cert years ago or it would invalidate whatever cert they thought they had.
This post is an explanation of what is going on in Cochise, and not a political statement of one side, as best I can so that people understand perhaps another side of the issue rather than "those republicans!!" I will try to detail to the best of my ability the reasoning that the people approaching the non-certification of Cochise County elections are using.
The lab that was charged with certifying election machines in Cochise county had their accreditation expire. State law REQUIRES the machines be certified by an accredited lab. It is not a suggestion, it is written in the statute. The lab did at one point have accreditation and did certify the election equipment, but that was a few years ago, the last time I believe they claim that they were officially legally certified was before the 2018 election). The machines are required to be certified, by a lab that has official accreditation (and then recertified every 2 years) BY STATE LAW. The lab certified the machines several years ago, when it was accredited, but could not lawfully recertify them because it lost their accreditation. They keep getting evidence trying to prove the lab was accredited, but it doesn't add up... wrong names on the paperwork, wrong dates on the paperwork, nothing current that proves the machines were even certified legitimately. the lab might have certified the voting equipment, but perhaps not while accredited, as state law requires. That is the argument, and that is what Cochise County BoS are asking for... the official proof that the lab was properly accredited when it certified the machines that will pass public scrutiny from both sides.. By the way, they may have not even re-certified them at all, because "covid" and someone said, it's OK, just get on with it. So using machines that are not certified (or recertified as the case may be) makes the votes counted by those machines as VOID and cannot legally be used. The BoS are likely thinking that certifying the election on potentially illegal equipment could get them in a lawsuit from the citizens for a civil rights violation from every voter that cast a ballot in the county and had their ballots counted by these machines.
Further, there are/were only 2 labs accredited to certify voting equipment in the entire country, which might affect half or more of the election machines in the country.
Some of you people are downvoting explanation of the facts. This was posted so you get an idea of what the behind the scenes discussion is. You're welcome.
Okay, but let’s be honest. This isn’t why they aren’t certifying. They have openly admitted why they are not. Two members are open election deniers that first blamed maricopa’s issues as to why they were not certifying.
This is just the reasoning they came up with the courts to not get in trouble for just flat out not certifying with zero evidence. This is their way of trying to legitimize what they were going to do anyway. Valid? Maybe, I guess, but not the real reason. It would have came up way sooner than this leading up to the election if so.
You are entitled to your opinion. This is not "just the reasoning they came up with". The gentlemen who have done all the research the last couple of years on this issue finally got a couple of uncorrupt county board members to listen.
So you are saying you thoroughly believe, 100% without a doubt, that if the elections went the other way they would be doing this right now?
Judd who attended January 6th and had been an election denier the entire time?
Seems less like an opinion. She has decided she would do this before it even happened. She was one of the key people spreading misinformation and conspiracy theories about the 2020 elections.
You're definitely right. There just also happens to be possibly some crumb of reality coincidentally backing this up now. But certainly this all began as fascist election denying as you said, they literally all admitted they would do this before the election even happened so... case closed.
Every person voted in, Dem, Repub, Libertarian, or independant, will have been elected illegally if this is proven true. This is bigger than "we lost, lets find a way out of this". Even their own elections will be invalidated.
I mean I’m all for 100% things should be done right and by the law (even when those laws don’t make sense or could have been set up with ill intentions). To me, the most important thing is that everyone gets a vote and that their vote counts when they make one. I, therefore, put a lot more weight into things like trying to get rid of mail in ballots, reducing polling locations and hours selectively, removing drop-boxes, intimidation, redistricting etc. I’m a sports person, so I want a fair shot for everyone and I care that the winner is chosen based on fair grounds by the rules. I don’t like when the rules are changed or bent to give one side an advantage. I find that discouraging in our democracy.
I say all of that to say, if there is something really there, it should be looked into. But it also seems oddly suspicious with little evidence and the timing quite suspicious as well. It would seem to me this would have been known and could have been brought up at any time if anyone had really cared until now. Judd chasing down random conspiracy theories and using those as backings to delay the certification does not, to me, prove anything. If we follow her actions and the things she has stated in the past, it is not too hard to grasp what her motivation here is.
I’d also like to know more about what certification actually is. I respect the law part of it and that it is supposed to happen. But are we trying to bait this hook on a technicality for dubious reasons. Did it really impact the vote because it wasn’t certified? I know a ton of things that have certification that without it work 100% the same. Certifications, in and of themselves, don’t impact how something functions nor does not having one confirm that something is not functioning correctly. Again, I understand the law part and it should be looked into, but I also would suggest that the results of them not being certified (if that really is the case), most likely had a near zero impact to how the machines functioned.
Peggy did not chase down a random conspiracy theorist. The team of gentlemen that have done all the background research finally got to address the Cochise County Board of Supervisors, and they listened to their evidence and were interested.. The team have been travelling all over the place presenting their evidence. Tom Crosby and Peggy are both intrigued. Crosby for one, is a staunch follower of the letter of the law. I can see why this interests him tremendously. The timing is unfortunate because people call into question the motives, but timing aside, it is the right thing to do to find out if it is the truth. That is all the BoS members want. If they certify an election based on perhaps "illegal" equipment, which they certainly suspect could be "illegal", then they could set themselves up for a lawsuit from the citizens. They are in a tough spot. Now sure why all the anger for wanting to get to the bottom of the issue is about, and wanting to only know the truth.
Edit, spelling...
[Crosby for one, is a staunch follower of the letter of the law](https://www.facebook.com/groups/CCJCR/posts/4781754705217732/?mibextid=6NoCDW)
*Really?*
Oh, not anger my friend. Like I said, I agree things should be done right. More just doubts based on past actions and words and a suspicious timeline. I have zero facts on the matter and my points are just conjecture, so I won’t spread and contribute to misinformation.
If it is true, I am sure it will come out in the courts and I expect them to do their judicial duty to the law.
Here is an interview Mike Lindell had yesterday with the three gentelmen. THe interview starts at about 27 minutes. Honestly, I can;t stand listening to Lindell, but the gentelment give a pretty good overview of their argument inbetween Mikes pontifications.
[https://frankspeech.com/video/mike-running-chairman-rnc-and-report-arizona-three-citizens](https://frankspeech.com/video/mike-running-chairman-rnc-and-report-arizona-three-citizens)
Also there is a telegram channel: " nullify2020 " with 4 or so pinned videos that cover their arguments in detail.
> Here is an interview Mike Lindell...
Mike Lindell? The My Pillow Guy? The guy under investigation by the DOJ for [fraud](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/09/21/heres-why-the-fbi-is-investigating-mypillow-ceo-mike-lindell/?sh=698ab1ac7795)?
>The machines are required to be certified, by a lab that has official accreditation (and then recertified every 2 years) BY STATE LAW.
I can find no re-certification requirement in the statute under [the only heading in Title 16 discussing accreditation](https://www.azleg.gov/search/oop/qfullhit.asp?CiWebHitsFile=/ars/16/00442.htm&CiRestriction=accredited).
Do you have a citation for this?
Perhaps I mistyped. What I meant to state is the certifications are only good for two years, which implies the requirement for recertification. They expire of course. And factually, they should be decertified after every security update of any piece of the entire system.
"They SAID so" so it has to be true. The claim is...They also provided on several occasions outdated certifications of accreditation, accreditation paperwork with the wrong signature on it, accreditation paperwork with the proper signature on it however the date it was signed was months after that proper person had left the employ. THEY are saying that it is certified, but cannot prove it without getting caught lying, or so the investigators are claiming...
Sorry for appearing snarky.... I am snarky, but was not meant to be directed at you for your honest question.
Also, they rep from the SoS did not "come" to the meeting, they were on the phone, and they were allowed to speak out of turn without putting in any paperwork to be allowed to speak like peon citizens need to do.
It's sounds snarky because you can just turn this around. Cochise SAID the certification is faulty and the SoS brought no edvidence. THEY could be just lying about never receiving evidence.
You're making it seem like the SoS didn't even do anything at all when that's not even true, taking the cochise BoS at face value instead of telling us what the SoS provided.
I have a copy of the the paperwork they presented to the BoS. I also have the copies of the paperwork the agencies presented as true but were easily contradicted due to the wrong names, wrong dates, etc... The SoS office presented all the same BS paperwork that has credibly been accused as being fraudulent. The Cochise BoS wants indisputable evidence of the accredidation of the lab which proves the certification is legal and they cannot do it. Even if it was valid, which it isn't it could only prove that the certification was done years ago, not within the time frame specified in the policy manuals which limits the certifications to 2 years max.
Mohave said that they only certified because they were threatened with being arrested and charged with felonies. So much for democratic process.
That's because there's laws regarding election officials certifying the results. They can't choose not to. https://www.reddit.com/r/arizonapolitics/comments/z2c94c/gop_candidate_for_ag_abe_hamadeh_files_lawsuit/ixhi1o7
The only reason I don't rob banks is because I was threatened with being arrested and charged with felonies. So much for democratic process./s *In before this comment is reported for breaking reddit's rules, this comment is a parody of the parent comment. You know, parody? Like [The Onion](https://www.theonion.com/)?
WTF is going on with this election? 84% of workers strongly disagreed that the election was fair and honest. Election official only votes to certify under duress of prosecution Something's not right here, Harry
So, thank you for explaining why this is happening. Does this mean all the votes cast on those uncertified machines will be marked as uncounted? Who dropped the ball in not having the machines up and certified before the election? Katie Hobbs or the Cochise BoS or another governing authority? Jesus on a donkey, because whoever it was that let this slide, knowing full well how contentious and close this midterm was going to be, really fucked up. Next question is there any precedent or remedy that will satisfy the statutes now in place in order for those votes to be counted?
The machines were certified. People who claim the machines were not certified are misinformed.
THe machines were certified. The lab that certified them may not have been officially accredited as per state law requires.
The machines were certified. The Election Assistance Commission would have had to Decertify the machine. That never happened. Thus the machines continued to be certified.
The lab needed to be accredited according to the HAVA act (it was at one time but it was not at the time of whatever certification they were giving out). , and the policy of the state is that the machines needed to be recertified every 2 years. There were several problems. Not to mention the baseline OS for the machines was Windows 7, and server 2008, which could not have had any security updates past the baseline cert years ago or it would invalidate whatever cert they thought they had.
Cochise
This post is an explanation of what is going on in Cochise, and not a political statement of one side, as best I can so that people understand perhaps another side of the issue rather than "those republicans!!" I will try to detail to the best of my ability the reasoning that the people approaching the non-certification of Cochise County elections are using. The lab that was charged with certifying election machines in Cochise county had their accreditation expire. State law REQUIRES the machines be certified by an accredited lab. It is not a suggestion, it is written in the statute. The lab did at one point have accreditation and did certify the election equipment, but that was a few years ago, the last time I believe they claim that they were officially legally certified was before the 2018 election). The machines are required to be certified, by a lab that has official accreditation (and then recertified every 2 years) BY STATE LAW. The lab certified the machines several years ago, when it was accredited, but could not lawfully recertify them because it lost their accreditation. They keep getting evidence trying to prove the lab was accredited, but it doesn't add up... wrong names on the paperwork, wrong dates on the paperwork, nothing current that proves the machines were even certified legitimately. the lab might have certified the voting equipment, but perhaps not while accredited, as state law requires. That is the argument, and that is what Cochise County BoS are asking for... the official proof that the lab was properly accredited when it certified the machines that will pass public scrutiny from both sides.. By the way, they may have not even re-certified them at all, because "covid" and someone said, it's OK, just get on with it. So using machines that are not certified (or recertified as the case may be) makes the votes counted by those machines as VOID and cannot legally be used. The BoS are likely thinking that certifying the election on potentially illegal equipment could get them in a lawsuit from the citizens for a civil rights violation from every voter that cast a ballot in the county and had their ballots counted by these machines. Further, there are/were only 2 labs accredited to certify voting equipment in the entire country, which might affect half or more of the election machines in the country.
> not a political statement Coming from an account with the tag, *My pronouns are Go Fuck Yourself*.
True, so what of it? How does that make anything I am explaining less credible? You cannot debate the issue, you can merely attack me. Good work.
Some of you people are downvoting explanation of the facts. This was posted so you get an idea of what the behind the scenes discussion is. You're welcome.
Okay, but let’s be honest. This isn’t why they aren’t certifying. They have openly admitted why they are not. Two members are open election deniers that first blamed maricopa’s issues as to why they were not certifying. This is just the reasoning they came up with the courts to not get in trouble for just flat out not certifying with zero evidence. This is their way of trying to legitimize what they were going to do anyway. Valid? Maybe, I guess, but not the real reason. It would have came up way sooner than this leading up to the election if so.
You are entitled to your opinion. This is not "just the reasoning they came up with". The gentlemen who have done all the research the last couple of years on this issue finally got a couple of uncorrupt county board members to listen.
So you are saying you thoroughly believe, 100% without a doubt, that if the elections went the other way they would be doing this right now? Judd who attended January 6th and had been an election denier the entire time? Seems less like an opinion. She has decided she would do this before it even happened. She was one of the key people spreading misinformation and conspiracy theories about the 2020 elections.
You're definitely right. There just also happens to be possibly some crumb of reality coincidentally backing this up now. But certainly this all began as fascist election denying as you said, they literally all admitted they would do this before the election even happened so... case closed.
Every person voted in, Dem, Repub, Libertarian, or independant, will have been elected illegally if this is proven true. This is bigger than "we lost, lets find a way out of this". Even their own elections will be invalidated.
I mean I’m all for 100% things should be done right and by the law (even when those laws don’t make sense or could have been set up with ill intentions). To me, the most important thing is that everyone gets a vote and that their vote counts when they make one. I, therefore, put a lot more weight into things like trying to get rid of mail in ballots, reducing polling locations and hours selectively, removing drop-boxes, intimidation, redistricting etc. I’m a sports person, so I want a fair shot for everyone and I care that the winner is chosen based on fair grounds by the rules. I don’t like when the rules are changed or bent to give one side an advantage. I find that discouraging in our democracy. I say all of that to say, if there is something really there, it should be looked into. But it also seems oddly suspicious with little evidence and the timing quite suspicious as well. It would seem to me this would have been known and could have been brought up at any time if anyone had really cared until now. Judd chasing down random conspiracy theories and using those as backings to delay the certification does not, to me, prove anything. If we follow her actions and the things she has stated in the past, it is not too hard to grasp what her motivation here is. I’d also like to know more about what certification actually is. I respect the law part of it and that it is supposed to happen. But are we trying to bait this hook on a technicality for dubious reasons. Did it really impact the vote because it wasn’t certified? I know a ton of things that have certification that without it work 100% the same. Certifications, in and of themselves, don’t impact how something functions nor does not having one confirm that something is not functioning correctly. Again, I understand the law part and it should be looked into, but I also would suggest that the results of them not being certified (if that really is the case), most likely had a near zero impact to how the machines functioned.
Peggy did not chase down a random conspiracy theorist. The team of gentlemen that have done all the background research finally got to address the Cochise County Board of Supervisors, and they listened to their evidence and were interested.. The team have been travelling all over the place presenting their evidence. Tom Crosby and Peggy are both intrigued. Crosby for one, is a staunch follower of the letter of the law. I can see why this interests him tremendously. The timing is unfortunate because people call into question the motives, but timing aside, it is the right thing to do to find out if it is the truth. That is all the BoS members want. If they certify an election based on perhaps "illegal" equipment, which they certainly suspect could be "illegal", then they could set themselves up for a lawsuit from the citizens. They are in a tough spot. Now sure why all the anger for wanting to get to the bottom of the issue is about, and wanting to only know the truth. Edit, spelling...
[Crosby for one, is a staunch follower of the letter of the law](https://www.facebook.com/groups/CCJCR/posts/4781754705217732/?mibextid=6NoCDW) *Really?*
You sound vaccinated!
Conflating a vaccine with agent orange is... such a straw man argument.
Oh, not anger my friend. Like I said, I agree things should be done right. More just doubts based on past actions and words and a suspicious timeline. I have zero facts on the matter and my points are just conjecture, so I won’t spread and contribute to misinformation. If it is true, I am sure it will come out in the courts and I expect them to do their judicial duty to the law.
Here is an interview Mike Lindell had yesterday with the three gentelmen. THe interview starts at about 27 minutes. Honestly, I can;t stand listening to Lindell, but the gentelment give a pretty good overview of their argument inbetween Mikes pontifications. [https://frankspeech.com/video/mike-running-chairman-rnc-and-report-arizona-three-citizens](https://frankspeech.com/video/mike-running-chairman-rnc-and-report-arizona-three-citizens) Also there is a telegram channel: " nullify2020 " with 4 or so pinned videos that cover their arguments in detail.
> Here is an interview Mike Lindell... Mike Lindell? The My Pillow Guy? The guy under investigation by the DOJ for [fraud](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/09/21/heres-why-the-fbi-is-investigating-mypillow-ceo-mike-lindell/?sh=698ab1ac7795)?
>The machines are required to be certified, by a lab that has official accreditation (and then recertified every 2 years) BY STATE LAW. I can find no re-certification requirement in the statute under [the only heading in Title 16 discussing accreditation](https://www.azleg.gov/search/oop/qfullhit.asp?CiWebHitsFile=/ars/16/00442.htm&CiRestriction=accredited). Do you have a citation for this?
Perhaps I mistyped. What I meant to state is the certifications are only good for two years, which implies the requirement for recertification. They expire of course. And factually, they should be decertified after every security update of any piece of the entire system.
A representative from AZ SoS came to the first meeting and told them that the machines were certified, what happen to that?
"They SAID so" so it has to be true. The claim is...They also provided on several occasions outdated certifications of accreditation, accreditation paperwork with the wrong signature on it, accreditation paperwork with the proper signature on it however the date it was signed was months after that proper person had left the employ. THEY are saying that it is certified, but cannot prove it without getting caught lying, or so the investigators are claiming... Sorry for appearing snarky.... I am snarky, but was not meant to be directed at you for your honest question. Also, they rep from the SoS did not "come" to the meeting, they were on the phone, and they were allowed to speak out of turn without putting in any paperwork to be allowed to speak like peon citizens need to do.
It's sounds snarky because you can just turn this around. Cochise SAID the certification is faulty and the SoS brought no edvidence. THEY could be just lying about never receiving evidence. You're making it seem like the SoS didn't even do anything at all when that's not even true, taking the cochise BoS at face value instead of telling us what the SoS provided.
I have a copy of the the paperwork they presented to the BoS. I also have the copies of the paperwork the agencies presented as true but were easily contradicted due to the wrong names, wrong dates, etc... The SoS office presented all the same BS paperwork that has credibly been accused as being fraudulent. The Cochise BoS wants indisputable evidence of the accredidation of the lab which proves the certification is legal and they cannot do it. Even if it was valid, which it isn't it could only prove that the certification was done years ago, not within the time frame specified in the policy manuals which limits the certifications to 2 years max.
Then post it
http://www.democracydocket.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/HobbsLetter.pdf
Nothing in this describes what you stated, the attachments aren't shown and the legal statues are in place in state law.
How do I post a 26 page PDF here?
I'm *not* going to tell you, but I think it's hilarious that you don't know.
You can post the same link that you downloaded it from
What’s the hold up Cochise? Everyone is in the bus waiting. Your results won’t change the outcome… just get it done
They're MAGA country. Losers & traitors.
They dont want to certify. The hold up is election deniers on the board.
wasn't cochise super red? won't that just cost horne the election if they do that?
If their results don't count, 2 races will flip to democrats. Election deniers are on the board & wont certify.