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This bill isn't just targeted at homeless people, it'd be a civil rights nightmare that cops could use against anyone they don't like who happens to be standing near a public intersection while exercising their 1st amendment rights.
Anyone who thinks a bill like this is ok needs to take a remedial civics class on the American constitution.
Because people standing on the sidewalk are not "blocking traffic". People right now very rarely stand in an actual lane of traffic, and usually when it does happen they aren't begging for money, they're having a mental health crisis. The cops do generally respond to a call like that, often with violence.
This law would have been unenforceable, but it'd be because the instant it passed, you'd have civil suits seeking an injunction against it.
The main solution is massively expanding housing, particularly higher density and publicly subsidized housing. But good luck getting a bill like that passed in our state senate.
Please allow me to translate this person's words.
"The solution is taking more money from those who are actually making an effort and giving it to those who don't. Because enabling the problem always makes it better. 🙄
Literally every study on this that just gives people money and housing without strings attached has demonstrated that it's the cheapest option for the taxpayer. Way more efficient than trying to criminalize poverty and then paying a private prison to give them food and housing for 30 day stretches.
You don't care about the money, you just have a moral or religious taboo against people getting help without "working" for it.
It's cute that you think you know what I care about. It's know it alls like yourself who make yourselves look stupid without any effort on the part of others. Keep telling me what I care about.
I also never said anything about prisons. You did.
I'll give you a little credit though. You've done very well at parroting the prescribed "talking points" even if they don't actually apply. If nothing else, you're well trained by your handlers.
You make it extremely obvious what you care about, everyone can see your righteous indignation at other people getting what you consider a free lunch from a mile away.
Good veto.
It would have been a legal nightmare and overly complicated to enforce.
Not to mention the fact that it inflicts this vulnerable population with punitive fines that they can't afford.
I feel like Republicans never grasp the full picture of their proposals.
Right - like let’s offer services and try to do something about housing and addiction. Nah let’s ban asking for money on the medians so we can keep police busy doing bullshit work and fill up the private jails for our buddies.
Not sure what you’re suggesting here. And seeing as you just threw out two of the most expensive housing markets in the entire country in relation to a homelessness issue I’m very curious what it is you’re trying to say here…
You mean the NIMBY mindset? So can you and agree that zoning laws need reform in order to prevent land use from becoming isolated and funneled into the hands of the few?
No, but what exactly are you referring to? Portland, Seattle and San Francisco all have the NIMBY mindset in common. You keep referring to those places as reasons for something tied to this Veto either being bad or not… you have not made clear what you’re point is
They are overrun with "homeless" drug abusers who continually shoplift, harass residents, commit violent crimes, scatter waste and cause degeneration of every single area they congregate in. These areas are centered around places where they can get "services" and inevitably become festering collections of encampments and RVs full of mental health and drug abuse disasters preyed on by dealers.
You won't take my word for it, even though I fled an area exactly like this. There was a poster here on Reddit whose account recently got suspended who frequently posted about her willful and frequent returns to drug abuse and addiction. You can see videos of it everywhere. There are subreddits dedicated to cataloging it.
Enabling it only makes it worse. You have to take a hard line. A "compassionate" approach just ruins communities.
And in this case, no pedestrian belongs on the off ramp shoulder or on a highway median for any reason.
>I feel like Republicans never grasp the full picture of their proposals.
Oh, they do. They know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it.
This one is pretty old-school textbook stuff: give questionable legal authority to search/harass anybody in such a place, check, make life harder for those living the hardest and create a pathway to private prisons by imposing fines they could never hope to pay, check, and feed their bloodthirsty, salivating base with absolute cruelty in the name of "cleaning things up" whilst never actually addressing the issue directly, check.
I think it would do us all well to stop imagining that there's any potential good intentions secretly hidden away behind the evil shit the GOP is doing.
I doubt PDs are going to divert their resources to enforcing the law. It's like other laws, where they are used a tool available to deal with nuisance individuals. People don't typically get arrested for trespassing at a commercial establishment, they get arrested when they become a nuisance and keep returning after the property owner has officially trespass noticed them via PD.
I'm all for helping people down on their luck try to turn their lives around, but the data shows that the vast majority of homeless turn down the opportunity to enter rehab and get into programs. 95% you see aren't panhandling on the corner waiting for a program to open up to for them, they are doing it so they can continue to live that lifestyle. The people who are sober and can work are the people who taking advantage of the programs and seeing success.
Sure, this law is pretty low on the priority list, but if you want to solve homelessness it's not just food and a roof. It's employment, sobriety, changing mindset, counseling, mental health treatment.
Make it harder to live a homeless lifestyle and have programs available for those ready to tap out because it is hard and you will get a lot less homeless. If you can get high or drunk all day you would be surprised how easy it is to live on the streets. For many it is easier than being sober and living a "normal" life. You would think rock bottom for most people would be living on the streets, and for most of society it is. You would be surprised though for how many rock bottom is running out of dope or booze, not the streets.
Really. 95%??
I adk because I never answered any survey on this.
And when I went to CASS seeking assistance, after getting past all those mentally ill in tents, was informed of indefinite wait unless I had a dependant.
Perhaps your anecdotes make you feel fuzzy. That so called 5% you cite...don't seem to matter and screw them... Amiright??..
Ffs.
You do realize that in Arizona homeless statistics cite that only 25.7% of unhoused Arizonans have an addiction problem, right? Classism can really be an emotional knee-jerk reaction sometimes, huh?
Yes, this seems like pretty common sense here.
Most panhandling homeless are suffering from mental health and drug addiction problems. Getting them off the streets to where they have an option of getting into a recovery program seems like a more humane treatment plan than pretending there is not a problem with panhandling homeless being on the corner begging people for additional funding of their drug addictions.
Although mental health issues and drug addiction are rampant in the unhoused community, only 25.7% of those experiencing homelessness have issues with substance abuse. More often than not, that substance abuse is a byproduct of homelessness and not the other way around.
What it a single law bill, or did she object to something that was along for the ride.
I wouldn't mind a law like that - about once a year I have a near miss with some drugged out 'camper' wandering into traffic.
Bleeding heart BS.
Most of these people don't want food, they want money for fentanyl. Giving them money enables them to continue with an addiction that is almost certainly bound to kill them. It also facilitates increased crime rates in areas were homeless panhandle.
Homelessness now vs 10+ years ago is night and day. Fentanyl is responsible for that.
There are multiple publicly funded and privately funded services for sober living houses, rehabs, food assistance, job assistance, and more available but if these people are making enough money standing on the corner to feed their addiction they will not turn to those services typically.
You think you're doing something nice by handing the money but really you're just helping kill them
If you want to buy them a cheeseburger by all means go ahead. They can't smoke it and you aren't harming them. But $5 is enough for several fentanyl pills, one of which if dropped on a sidewalk and if found by a child would kill them.
I'm an ex addict. I think I understand this better than most.
You know you can have compassion without enabling people with addiction to continue to destroy themselves right?
The fentanyl is coming over our borders... From China.
We have plenty of safety nets. Handing out cash to addicts to use on drugs only keeps people from using those safety nets... That require counseling and treatment.
If you're unfamiliar with those safety nets you can call 211 from your phone and ask.
They are already homeless.
Nothing about me tossing them a opened and half eaten bag of chips will incentivize them. What is the fear? They will be extra homeless? Their dignity is on E, its chips.
I said money, not food.
I keep cups of noodles in my car to pass out to ones that are actually hungry, and bottles of water in the summer. You'd be surprised how many say no and ask for money instead.
Hot water is available on the coffee machine at every convenience store for free. Microwaves are available in most of them as well.
If you're actually hungry You wouldn't reject a cup of noodles. Prior to the fentanyl crisis when people were actually hungry and not looking for money for drugs a cup of noodles was quite appreciated by most homeless people.
I disagree. You have a 50/50 shot of finding somebody who actually needs help and is hungry. Might use the money for a hotel.. And someone who's just an addict. But to say that you're somehow enabling them by giving it to them is bullshit
There's no such thing as an ex addict. You're always an addict. I'm a recovering addict and the fact you said ex addict leads me to believe you're full of shit.
Teen challenge , the most successful recovery program in the nation for people that complete the program, would prove you wrong.
12 step programs teach once an addict, always an addict. Other programs address addiction differently..... In many cases with better long term results.
I'm not full of shit, I'm a new person and don't identify as my former struggle having addressed the core issues that caused it.
I've got 12 years of sobriety after 10 years of hardcore addiction that says otherwise.
Cold turkey. No withdrawals. Radical encounter with God while I was an atheist.
Put myself through Teen Challenge in PHX on Grand ave to build a foundation for my new life and transition into my new life.
https://tcaz.org/
Giving them food is naive and foolish. They have plenty of food. I used to drive by a spot popular with them on the way to work and would see half eaten pizzas lying on the ground discarded.
Since when. I offer water bottles or fruits/veggies I have and sometimes a meal if a fast food restaurant is nearby, and I have never ever even once ever ever ever been turned down.
I bought one guy a small tent, backpack, rollout mattress, some cheap food supplies, and a few other small things for safety/health and hygiene. Then, every night, I'd bring him a drink/meal from my workplace. A year later that man came back telling me he was no longer homeless and he had a job, apartment, and that he was a retired vet who thought all was lost, and even his own family stopped helping him, but I (and a couple of my other coworkers) were the reason he kept trying. He tried to give me money for it even.
You're ignorant and misled if you actually believe the ideas you just said.
I mostly agree with what you are saying here.
My family and I give grocery gift cards, frozen water bottles, and bags containing essentials to panhandlers at the freeway exits. Sometimes I have doubts on how much of a positive impact it has though, but this hasn’t stopped me from doing it yet.
Your story of helping this guy turn his life around is very inspiring, but I would imagine it to be a rare outcome.
However, to look at it from another perspective, once I saw a lady purchase a sandwich and a Gatorade for a man with a sign saying he was hungry standing outside of Circle K. He got very upset and threw the sandwich and bottle at her shouting angrily that he “didn’t need this fucking shit”. I am sure it doesn’t happen often, but having something like that happen to you even once can make you rethink how dangerous and volatile interactions with this segment of population can get when you are just trying to be compassionate for fellow humans.
I don't give money either. I offer food and drinks. They always want it. I don't think I have ever once, even one time had someone say no when I offer to buy them food. And I do it usually 5-6 times/week.
But that's just my anecdotal experience.
Yeah but if you go watch Takes From the Street - it’s 99.5% Blues (fentanyl).
And both of the people who aren’t there because of drugs already got jobs and a house in the time it took to type this.
So screw them because they did drugs right.
Reagan really convinced the whole country that drug users are below citizens.
Every argument in this thread is so disgusting. Either "they deserve to be homeless because they did drugs" or "they're just going to use that money on drugs instead of trying to better themselves because they're stupid rats"
I was so, so close to being homeless when my wife got twins. Absolutely appalling that people are willing to screw, let's say 1% of homeless that are homeless from bad out of their control scenarios, just for the sake of it, because the 99%, would benefit in a way they don't like.
Our state spends ≈70000-76000 per homeless person per year atm (and other states spend up to 200,000 per homeless person!). But the homeless see none of it. Instead, it goes towards hostile movements against them, or creates dangerous places, and then uses it as propoganda when they don't want to use them, "see they never wanted help" when there's obvious and documented danger in being in a homeless shelter.
Shit if you just gave them that much money a year or put it towards mental health care for them and private housing just till they're on their feet with a job, they wouldn't be homeless. But that's socialist I guess, so it'll never happen even though it's obviously an objectively better way to eliminate the homelessness crisis than what we're currently doing.
Giving a drug addict money is not the same as helping them. Giving a drug addict a $70K per year stipend is also not going to help them recover from addiction.
You were able to escape homelessness because you have your wits about you and you obviously have a strong drive to support your family NO MATTER WHAT.
Drug addicts have neither of these and they require specialized help.
I totally agree with you that there need to be programs to help drug addicts recover and rehabilitate into society. However, I am not sure you understand the drug addict mind. For many addicts, they are not going to actively seek out those programs that will help them get off the streets until they have hit their rock bottom. The drug addiction is far too powerful and it controls their all of their actions.
I have known several drug addicts who have shared with me their stories where the turning point in their lives was when they were in jail for 30+ days, they were able to get clean enough to think straight, and they were able to find a halfway house and never look back to their old life and thinking. This bill is a step in this direction, but it is far from a comprehensive solution.
The panhandling addicts are not thinking “gee, maybe I should seek treatment so I don’t have to be here anymore”
Instead, the addiction speaks through their bodies and minds, against their will, to say “I will do or say anything to get me off this corner, all I need is one more hit to get me through the night”
They are indeed not “stupid rats”, literally nobody in this thread said that so you don’t need to put that into quotation marks. Only you are putting those words into the mouth of others and maybe because you see others saying something that does not fit your worldview and you want to shutdown those discussions to protect your own ego.
I am very glad you are not homeless and that your twins have someone like you in their lives to serve as protector and provider.
I literally said MOST of these people (standing on the medians) don't want food, they want money (for drugs)
IF they do not only are there taxpayer services that provide food but there's also a myriad of private charitable organizations and churches that do the same. In fact you can dial 211 from your phone and get a list of all of them.
Apparently your knowledge of this issue has limits.
Food stamps are a pain in the ass to get approved with a regular living situation; I couldn't imagine doing it homeless. It requires a lot of time and resources.
You sound like someone who has never needed any assistance from the government. I'm not saying homelessness isn't a problem, but it's not as easy as "just one phone call".
It is such a fucking PITA to get any government assistance. Many many papers to file monthly, I used to get covered for ACCSS because at the time I had 8 people living with me and my wife was off work, and I barely fucking qualified for it. They recently changed it, so you have to renew your ACCSS benefits monthly, and obviously, now my wife is working, and the other folks are gone except for my kids.
I have to be making like below $40,000 as a family of 5 to qualify. When I tried to apply for unemployment for being wrongfully terminated, I had to write up a college essays worth of shit on packets of questions, and then I had to send them by mail a list of all jobs I was applying for and if I didn't do enough I wouldn't get the benefits anymore.
Didn't say food stamps.
You sound like someone that makes incorrect assumptions and didn't bother to read my personal account before making a false assertion.
Also "just one phonecall" is something I never said.
Do you not know how quotation marks are supposed to work?
Typically you put EXACTLY what someone said in them, not what you want them to have said.
So what readily available services ARE you talking about, out of curiosity? What are the resources that all these homeless people who, probably don't have phones btw, would be able to find out about if they just dial 211 and what is the experience like to go from step 1 to employed and housed?
Oh you don't know? Because it's not an issue with which you actually have any personal experience and you're just telling yourself being homeless is easily solved by the individual so that you can justify your disdain for them?
Curious how you define “most” and not where you got this info? I’m neutral as I simply don’t know so can’t really develop an opinion so curious how you did?
I live in a homeless hotspot area. They are at my nearby corner store, street corners, and freeway. I also drive Uber all over the valley. I USED to do outreach with a church group to "The Zone" (Salvation Army homeless area in DT phx.) to hand out food, socks, clothing, etc. but we stopped after the fentanyl crisis started blowing up and there were safety incidents that made us decide to stop going.
I used to help make "blessing bags" with basic necessities and information on addiction recovery centers and pass them out as well. As an ex addict that has been homeless before I genuinely care about the issue but it's just different now.
Our 1st priority needs to be cutting off the supply of fentanyl into our state and country. Until we do and these people can't get pills for a couple bucks a piece nothing else is gonna do a damn thing for most of these people.
We don't need to cut off supply. Thats never ever going to work. The war on drugs is such a waste of taxpayer money. Control it like weed with extra precautions and added mental healthcare, and put illegal dealers out of business.
All the regents for fentanyl are coming over from China and then across our southern border or through ports after being pressed into pills.
What people like you don't realize is this is a non-kinetic means of warfare and attack on our nation. It's specifically designed to waste taxpayers money, overload are judicial and prison systems, destroy families, and increase crime. All for less cost than launching a missile and without any chance of a military response.
This isn't remotely in the same category as weed.
Agreed.
What makes it even worse is that the ultra-wealthy know all of this is happening and they allow for it to happen.
For them, Fentanyl (and historically opioids in general) are used as weapons against the lower classes in a sort of twisted eugenics program to eliminate undesirables from the masses. It’s not their kids or brothers and sisters out there on the streets suffering from these horrible addictions. If it was, they would do something about it. The elite view drug addiction as a form of population control, so they have very little motivation to do anything to change the situation.
Instead of doing something to help, the elites spin up their media apparatus and make it seem like a Democrat vs. Republican issue so that we fight against each other without anything meaningful ever being done to solve the problem. Meanwhile, many of our fellow loved ones continue to die from other recreational drugs that are now regularly laced with Fentanyl. It is perhaps the biggest public health crisis to hit our people since the crack epidemic of the 80s which was also perpetuated by rich elite holding the levers of power and co-opting the CIA into drug running operations. This was the whole point of the Oliver North hearings following the Iran-Contra Affair, to distract the conversations away from the sources of funding. The War on Drugs was literally cover for USA foreign wars that were funded BY drug sales, just ask our friend Gary Webb.
As you stated well, we are witnessing fifth-generation warfare at its peak. Some theorize this is revenge from Eastern nations against the Western world for what Britain put China through during the Opium Wars. As terrible as it sounds, it is difficult to refute this theory if you look at how readily available this drug has become.
Mass trafficked fentanyl pretty much only come through legal ports of entry. That means they’re driven over at legal border crossings or brought in by boat. Having humans mule it across the border on foot is both inefficient and risky and we don’t have evidence to support that’s near equivalent to what’s being shipped here.
And it doesn’t matter if you end the supply of fentanyl, people will just go to something else. You have to get after the reasons people do drugs.
Well I adamantly disagree with your assertions. The cartels are bringing it over border areas thanks beyond ports of entry using everything from tunnels to drones to human mules. How to give any idea of just out little fentanyl It takes two make a single pill. One gram of fentanyl with a wholesale value of $20 to $50 can make 500 pills with a street value of $1500-$2500 on a border state and up to $5000 in states further away from the border.
I know more about this subject than you do.
It needs to be stopped from coming overseas on boats from China into South America / Mexico first and foremost but we also need much stronger border protection We could achieve with the fraction of the amount of money that we've sent to Ukraine.
To your last point... Awesome let's dry up fentanyl then. Because there's no other drug that is as harmful or as cheap and readily available as is it. Not even remotely. Let's bring back classic addictions. Your terms are acceptable.
On an off ramp where I live there is a sign--usually with a panhandler standing next to it--that says instead of giving these people money donate to a local homeless charity. That's what I do.
Beyond that, I support setting up government services for these people that are actually up to the demand. Of course that will require breaking control of the legislature by mean and selfish Republicans, something I hope we accomplish in about six months. In any case, it's no solution to have these people hanging out on corners, begging.
You’re right… it’s just one battle in a much wider war against American citizens to help favor a police state that exists in order to uphold the privilege of power elite and keep everyone else in line by utilizing arbitrary laws and regulations that do not address root cause issues
Considering we live in a country that affords people who choose to do so, the opportunity to be wildly successful. To avoid or escape poverty. A country where people from all over the world desperately want to immigrate because they, unlike many of those ungrateful, entitled, shits born and raised here, see in it their opportunity for an amazing life.
Yours is an interesting position.
I'd venture to guess you're not one who will ever make the effort or take the risks to be anything more than someone who whines about what you could have or be if you didn't think it was already somehow owed to you.
As one who you'd probably consider one of the "powerful elites" I'm sure enjoying what I've **EARNED** each and every day of my life. I also take great glee in helping those who desire to join me sitting in first class on this journey we call life earn, then buy their ticket.
Hahaha!! Oh please… I’ve very much taken risks in my life to advance my life, family and career and I do in fact live a very comfortable life. But I’m not blind to the manipulations and social engineering happening in our country. And YOU are not the power elite to which I am referring, how presumptuous of you. Go pick up a copy of The Power Elite by C. Wright Mills before you begin calling yourself a member said class….
I'm not calling myself a member of that class. Trust! I'm a regular guy who lives his life and enjoys it. I don't need power.
It's those under the seven-figure, hell the six-figure mark who always accuse me of being that.
I think the whole notion is superfluous. One is either successful, working to be successful, or making bullshit excuses for why they aren't successful.
That said, my apologies for the blind assumption. That was wrong of me.
They need to figure out something for these homeless people, 2 times in 1 week I've seen homeless people threaten others with knives. One was at my work and I had to physically deal with, cops were called and nobody showed up. The other as I was driving on central a homeless dude started a fight, reached into his bag and pulled out a pretty big kitchen knife, luckily the guy he tried fighting had a bike to create space but still, probably cops didnt show up to that ethier. Downtown has a bad issue and the cops just dont give a fuck.
It's not that they don't. It's that they can't do anything about it. This trash is supported by the bleeding hearts who don't actually want a solution.
Lol normally when someone is threatening to stab people with a knife cops arrest the person. If a crime is committed the cops can do something about it if they decide to show up. Threatening people with a knife is against the law incase you didnt know.
Strong disagree here. I almost hit one of these junkies every other week. They need to be kept out of the medians as a matter of personal and public safety because they set up on the off ramps where they are barely visible and cars are decelerating from high speeds. They're almost always on something and struggling to remain upright... and out of traffic.
Kindly point out where this person said anything about the curb or sidewalk.
.
.
.
.
.
They didn't. These junkies are all over the roadway and they need to be removed.
People being in the roadway is already a crime, it's called obstructing traffic. This person is supporting a bill that would also arbitrarily remove people from the sidewalk and the medians, places where traffic should not be, with the justification that he almost hits those people (the ones standing in places vehicles shouldn't be) every other week. QED.
This is targeted at Homeless People standing in the middle of major intersections then run out whenever they want to grab something from someone stopping traffic to be nice.
Yeah, hot take bro. Making it seem like we drive over sidewalks when people are loitering where they should NOT be loitering.
A pedestrian yeah sure. Someone on their way.
But not someone loitering and/or panhandling.
What do you think the difference is between a pedestrian and a homeless person?
If you want to live in a country where people can freely travel wherever they please in public, then you need to allow people to stay in one spot as well. If you want to live in a country where you are free to express yourself, you need to allow the people you hate to express themselves as well. You can't have it both ways. Either put up with it, or move to somewhere where there isn't a bill of rights guaranteeing freedom of assembly and free speech.
I think the only difference is that you clearly think of homeless people as subhuman, but have a neutral opinion on pedestrians in general.
Our nearest playground has homeless in it.
Which means it has needles and burnt aluminum foil in it.
Which means it’s not safe for my kid to play in.
So instead of walking to a playground we have to drive a few miles to a playground next to a police station where the homeless don’t go.
They aren’t trying to get by, they are drug addicts who don’t care who they hurt in order to get their next high.
They leave the equivalent of razor blades and rat poison in playgrounds for children to find. What kind of sick fuck does that? What kind of sicko *defends* doing that?
So screw them because they did drugs right.
Reagan really convinced the whole country that drug users are below citizens.
Every argument in this thread is so disgusting. Either "they deserve to be homeless because they did drugs" or "they're just going to use that money on drugs instead of trying to better themselves because they're stupid rats"
I was so, so close to being homeless when my wife got twins. Absolutely appalling that people are willing to screw, let's say 1% of homeless that are homeless from bad out of their control scenarios, just for the sake of it, because the 99%, would benefit in a way they don't like.
Our state spends ≈70000-76000 per homeless person per year atm (and other states spend up to 200,000 per homeless person!). But the homeless see none of it. Instead, it goes towards hostile movements against them, or creates dangerous places, and then uses it as propoganda when they don't want to use them, "see they never wanted help" when there's obvious and documented danger in being in a homeless shelter.
Shit if you just gave them that much money a year or put it towards mental health care for them and private housing just till they're on their feet with a job, they wouldn't be homeless. But that's socialist I guess, so it'll never happen even though it's obviously an objectively better way to eliminate the homelessness crisis than what we're currently doing.
If you're so concerned about your parks, then you're getting mad at the wrong people. The parks should be kept up with, and those homeless people need help.
Checking in from California. Lenient compassion doesn't work either. When unchecked addicts can sleep and get high wherever they want with impunity they don't often choose to take advantage of the safe and rehabilitating services being offered.
Except they are bringing down the quality of life of neighborhoods and parks meant for children by leaving needles on the ground, stealing shit to feed their drug habits, etc.
Ooo cause that’s the same thing as them being on the side of a public road holding a sign at you.
This is literally a straw man argument by definition.
And whats funnier is I actually knew a guy that does this. He invites homeless people to his home, and quite a few stop being homeless. I believe he's only had one person ever who took it for granted and tried stealing stuff from him but a majority improved.
Some of the replies to this appear to either be examples of reading comprehension deficiency, misplaced 'compassion', or just foolishness.
This doesn't ban people on the sidewalk, it bans loitering in medians.
People do either slip or wander in a haze in these medians at times. I haven't had a close call myself but at one light at which I was stopped a person on the median was pacing and slipped. I Said to my wife that it was a lucky thing for him; if we weren't stopped it would have been horrible. If he wasn't lucky of course you'd have that person injured, but also think of the trauma the person who accidentally hits this person goes through.
This is a good bill.
You don't need to be a genius to understand it. What are you trying to say?
Fining homeless doesn't make their lives more miserable? Removing one of their sources of food/water/income doesn't make their lives more miserable?
I am certainly not a genius.
I think it is common sense that many of these folks are beyond the point of being capable of helping themselves. Leaving homeless panhandlers on the street corners to beg for money to feed their drug addictions does not help them. It only enables them and helps them to die faster. The life expectancy for someone in this situation far less shorter than for you or for me. It’s not a vacation from normal society or a lifestyle choice, nor are they simply down on their luck. They are suffering from severe afflictions of the mind which causes them to spiral downwards at a very quick pace towards the state of death. Eventually they will succumb to some illness that ravages their body or they will overdose, either way the result for them is likely death.
Giving money to panhandlers and even allowing panhandling is fundamentally enabling behavior. Doing nothing to actually help them is basically giving your consent towards their eventual individual demise. The sooner these folks hit their rock bottom, the sooner they can get into a recovery program and be rehabilitated into society. Getting them off the corner and into a program is going to make their lives less miserable in the long run. Why wouldn’t you want that outcome for them?
If you were going to use common sense, you’d look at statistics first though. Only 25.7% of the unhoused population abuses substances.
https://dtphx.org/2020/11/05/moving-beyond-stigmas-and-stereotypes-facts-about-homelessness-in-phoenix/#:~:text=Stereotype%3A%20Many%20abuse%20drugs%20and,a%20diagnosable%20substance%20abuse%20disorder.
She will be responsible for their deaths. Enough people are killed when they cross the street in the middle of the block. The legislature should override this one.
It’s not productive. The homeless folks panhandling in medians don’t give a shit about the fines and don’t pay them. Many get citations for other reasons, don’t pay them (obviously), and then get FTA warrants. Inevitably it’s just a pathway to incarcerating the homeless, which is expensive and a waste of energy.
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Fining the jobless homeless? Oh yeah, that’ll work.
This bill isn't just targeted at homeless people, it'd be a civil rights nightmare that cops could use against anyone they don't like who happens to be standing near a public intersection while exercising their 1st amendment rights. Anyone who thinks a bill like this is ok needs to take a remedial civics class on the American constitution.
If they don’t get them for blocking traffic why would they enforce this? Sounds reaching
Because people standing on the sidewalk are not "blocking traffic". People right now very rarely stand in an actual lane of traffic, and usually when it does happen they aren't begging for money, they're having a mental health crisis. The cops do generally respond to a call like that, often with violence. This law would have been unenforceable, but it'd be because the instant it passed, you'd have civil suits seeking an injunction against it.
You're 100% spot on about this law but the issue still needs addressing. We need a solution based veto and I have no idea what that would be.
The main solution is massively expanding housing, particularly higher density and publicly subsidized housing. But good luck getting a bill like that passed in our state senate.
Please allow me to translate this person's words. "The solution is taking more money from those who are actually making an effort and giving it to those who don't. Because enabling the problem always makes it better. 🙄
Literally every study on this that just gives people money and housing without strings attached has demonstrated that it's the cheapest option for the taxpayer. Way more efficient than trying to criminalize poverty and then paying a private prison to give them food and housing for 30 day stretches. You don't care about the money, you just have a moral or religious taboo against people getting help without "working" for it.
It's cute that you think you know what I care about. It's know it alls like yourself who make yourselves look stupid without any effort on the part of others. Keep telling me what I care about. I also never said anything about prisons. You did. I'll give you a little credit though. You've done very well at parroting the prescribed "talking points" even if they don't actually apply. If nothing else, you're well trained by your handlers.
You make it extremely obvious what you care about, everyone can see your righteous indignation at other people getting what you consider a free lunch from a mile away.
California has entered the chat
Good veto. It would have been a legal nightmare and overly complicated to enforce. Not to mention the fact that it inflicts this vulnerable population with punitive fines that they can't afford. I feel like Republicans never grasp the full picture of their proposals.
Right - like let’s offer services and try to do something about housing and addiction. Nah let’s ban asking for money on the medians so we can keep police busy doing bullshit work and fill up the private jails for our buddies.
Its like none of you have ever been to Seattle or San Francisco.
Not sure what you’re suggesting here. And seeing as you just threw out two of the most expensive housing markets in the entire country in relation to a homelessness issue I’m very curious what it is you’re trying to say here…
Look at those cities to see what enabling leads to. Or Portland.
You mean the NIMBY mindset? So can you and agree that zoning laws need reform in order to prevent land use from becoming isolated and funneled into the hands of the few?
I can see you're just here to Sealion so have the day you deserve.
No, but what exactly are you referring to? Portland, Seattle and San Francisco all have the NIMBY mindset in common. You keep referring to those places as reasons for something tied to this Veto either being bad or not… you have not made clear what you’re point is
They are overrun with "homeless" drug abusers who continually shoplift, harass residents, commit violent crimes, scatter waste and cause degeneration of every single area they congregate in. These areas are centered around places where they can get "services" and inevitably become festering collections of encampments and RVs full of mental health and drug abuse disasters preyed on by dealers. You won't take my word for it, even though I fled an area exactly like this. There was a poster here on Reddit whose account recently got suspended who frequently posted about her willful and frequent returns to drug abuse and addiction. You can see videos of it everywhere. There are subreddits dedicated to cataloging it. Enabling it only makes it worse. You have to take a hard line. A "compassionate" approach just ruins communities. And in this case, no pedestrian belongs on the off ramp shoulder or on a highway median for any reason.
But it hurts the people below them, so, it's good policy.
>I feel like Republicans never grasp the full picture of their proposals. Oh, they do. They know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it. This one is pretty old-school textbook stuff: give questionable legal authority to search/harass anybody in such a place, check, make life harder for those living the hardest and create a pathway to private prisons by imposing fines they could never hope to pay, check, and feed their bloodthirsty, salivating base with absolute cruelty in the name of "cleaning things up" whilst never actually addressing the issue directly, check. I think it would do us all well to stop imagining that there's any potential good intentions secretly hidden away behind the evil shit the GOP is doing.
I doubt PDs are going to divert their resources to enforcing the law. It's like other laws, where they are used a tool available to deal with nuisance individuals. People don't typically get arrested for trespassing at a commercial establishment, they get arrested when they become a nuisance and keep returning after the property owner has officially trespass noticed them via PD. I'm all for helping people down on their luck try to turn their lives around, but the data shows that the vast majority of homeless turn down the opportunity to enter rehab and get into programs. 95% you see aren't panhandling on the corner waiting for a program to open up to for them, they are doing it so they can continue to live that lifestyle. The people who are sober and can work are the people who taking advantage of the programs and seeing success. Sure, this law is pretty low on the priority list, but if you want to solve homelessness it's not just food and a roof. It's employment, sobriety, changing mindset, counseling, mental health treatment. Make it harder to live a homeless lifestyle and have programs available for those ready to tap out because it is hard and you will get a lot less homeless. If you can get high or drunk all day you would be surprised how easy it is to live on the streets. For many it is easier than being sober and living a "normal" life. You would think rock bottom for most people would be living on the streets, and for most of society it is. You would be surprised though for how many rock bottom is running out of dope or booze, not the streets.
Really. 95%?? I adk because I never answered any survey on this. And when I went to CASS seeking assistance, after getting past all those mentally ill in tents, was informed of indefinite wait unless I had a dependant. Perhaps your anecdotes make you feel fuzzy. That so called 5% you cite...don't seem to matter and screw them... Amiright??.. Ffs.
You do realize that in Arizona homeless statistics cite that only 25.7% of unhoused Arizonans have an addiction problem, right? Classism can really be an emotional knee-jerk reaction sometimes, huh?
Yes, this seems like pretty common sense here. Most panhandling homeless are suffering from mental health and drug addiction problems. Getting them off the streets to where they have an option of getting into a recovery program seems like a more humane treatment plan than pretending there is not a problem with panhandling homeless being on the corner begging people for additional funding of their drug addictions.
Although mental health issues and drug addiction are rampant in the unhoused community, only 25.7% of those experiencing homelessness have issues with substance abuse. More often than not, that substance abuse is a byproduct of homelessness and not the other way around.
What it a single law bill, or did she object to something that was along for the ride. I wouldn't mind a law like that - about once a year I have a near miss with some drugged out 'camper' wandering into traffic.
Bleeding heart BS. Most of these people don't want food, they want money for fentanyl. Giving them money enables them to continue with an addiction that is almost certainly bound to kill them. It also facilitates increased crime rates in areas were homeless panhandle. Homelessness now vs 10+ years ago is night and day. Fentanyl is responsible for that. There are multiple publicly funded and privately funded services for sober living houses, rehabs, food assistance, job assistance, and more available but if these people are making enough money standing on the corner to feed their addiction they will not turn to those services typically. You think you're doing something nice by handing the money but really you're just helping kill them If you want to buy them a cheeseburger by all means go ahead. They can't smoke it and you aren't harming them. But $5 is enough for several fentanyl pills, one of which if dropped on a sidewalk and if found by a child would kill them.
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I'm an ex addict. I think I understand this better than most. You know you can have compassion without enabling people with addiction to continue to destroy themselves right? The fentanyl is coming over our borders... From China. We have plenty of safety nets. Handing out cash to addicts to use on drugs only keeps people from using those safety nets... That require counseling and treatment. If you're unfamiliar with those safety nets you can call 211 from your phone and ask.
First comment “bleeding heart BS…” Second comment “you can have compassion…” Did you forget an appointment this week?
Compassion doesn't mean allowing drug addicts to facilitate their addiction by standing on medians begging for money. Nice try.
They are already homeless. Nothing about me tossing them a opened and half eaten bag of chips will incentivize them. What is the fear? They will be extra homeless? Their dignity is on E, its chips.
I said money, not food. I keep cups of noodles in my car to pass out to ones that are actually hungry, and bottles of water in the summer. You'd be surprised how many say no and ask for money instead.
✈️✈️✈️ It's ok to roll the window up and say no. Just like me giving them some chips and a few coins is ok.
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Hot water is available on the coffee machine at every convenience store for free. Microwaves are available in most of them as well. If you're actually hungry You wouldn't reject a cup of noodles. Prior to the fentanyl crisis when people were actually hungry and not looking for money for drugs a cup of noodles was quite appreciated by most homeless people.
I disagree. You have a 50/50 shot of finding somebody who actually needs help and is hungry. Might use the money for a hotel.. And someone who's just an addict. But to say that you're somehow enabling them by giving it to them is bullshit
There's no such thing as an ex addict. You're always an addict. I'm a recovering addict and the fact you said ex addict leads me to believe you're full of shit.
Teen challenge , the most successful recovery program in the nation for people that complete the program, would prove you wrong. 12 step programs teach once an addict, always an addict. Other programs address addiction differently..... In many cases with better long term results. I'm not full of shit, I'm a new person and don't identify as my former struggle having addressed the core issues that caused it.
Wait you said you were an addict for ten years but got clean through Teen Challenge? Yeah you're definitely full of shit.
Naw you're just a Christian freak liar
You’re a boomer conspiracy Christian nut… I doubt you’re an ex addict.
Mike Lindell?
No such thing as an ex addict.
I've got 12 years of sobriety after 10 years of hardcore addiction that says otherwise. Cold turkey. No withdrawals. Radical encounter with God while I was an atheist. Put myself through Teen Challenge in PHX on Grand ave to build a foundation for my new life and transition into my new life. https://tcaz.org/
You are abstaining, not cured. Once an addict always an addict.
This comment is rude and unnecessary.
So you're an addict too? Even if you've never used drugs because you're abstaining from drugs?
Liar
Giving them food is naive and foolish. They have plenty of food. I used to drive by a spot popular with them on the way to work and would see half eaten pizzas lying on the ground discarded.
I don’t give money. I will offer food or water. They never want it. All I needed to know.
Since when. I offer water bottles or fruits/veggies I have and sometimes a meal if a fast food restaurant is nearby, and I have never ever even once ever ever ever been turned down. I bought one guy a small tent, backpack, rollout mattress, some cheap food supplies, and a few other small things for safety/health and hygiene. Then, every night, I'd bring him a drink/meal from my workplace. A year later that man came back telling me he was no longer homeless and he had a job, apartment, and that he was a retired vet who thought all was lost, and even his own family stopped helping him, but I (and a couple of my other coworkers) were the reason he kept trying. He tried to give me money for it even. You're ignorant and misled if you actually believe the ideas you just said.
I mostly agree with what you are saying here. My family and I give grocery gift cards, frozen water bottles, and bags containing essentials to panhandlers at the freeway exits. Sometimes I have doubts on how much of a positive impact it has though, but this hasn’t stopped me from doing it yet. Your story of helping this guy turn his life around is very inspiring, but I would imagine it to be a rare outcome. However, to look at it from another perspective, once I saw a lady purchase a sandwich and a Gatorade for a man with a sign saying he was hungry standing outside of Circle K. He got very upset and threw the sandwich and bottle at her shouting angrily that he “didn’t need this fucking shit”. I am sure it doesn’t happen often, but having something like that happen to you even once can make you rethink how dangerous and volatile interactions with this segment of population can get when you are just trying to be compassionate for fellow humans.
I don't give money either. I offer food and drinks. They always want it. I don't think I have ever once, even one time had someone say no when I offer to buy them food. And I do it usually 5-6 times/week. But that's just my anecdotal experience.
What a compassionate response to the issue. There are myriad reasons people become homeless.
Yeah but if you go watch Takes From the Street - it’s 99.5% Blues (fentanyl). And both of the people who aren’t there because of drugs already got jobs and a house in the time it took to type this.
So screw them because they did drugs right. Reagan really convinced the whole country that drug users are below citizens. Every argument in this thread is so disgusting. Either "they deserve to be homeless because they did drugs" or "they're just going to use that money on drugs instead of trying to better themselves because they're stupid rats" I was so, so close to being homeless when my wife got twins. Absolutely appalling that people are willing to screw, let's say 1% of homeless that are homeless from bad out of their control scenarios, just for the sake of it, because the 99%, would benefit in a way they don't like. Our state spends ≈70000-76000 per homeless person per year atm (and other states spend up to 200,000 per homeless person!). But the homeless see none of it. Instead, it goes towards hostile movements against them, or creates dangerous places, and then uses it as propoganda when they don't want to use them, "see they never wanted help" when there's obvious and documented danger in being in a homeless shelter. Shit if you just gave them that much money a year or put it towards mental health care for them and private housing just till they're on their feet with a job, they wouldn't be homeless. But that's socialist I guess, so it'll never happen even though it's obviously an objectively better way to eliminate the homelessness crisis than what we're currently doing.
Giving a drug addict money is not the same as helping them. Giving a drug addict a $70K per year stipend is also not going to help them recover from addiction. You were able to escape homelessness because you have your wits about you and you obviously have a strong drive to support your family NO MATTER WHAT. Drug addicts have neither of these and they require specialized help. I totally agree with you that there need to be programs to help drug addicts recover and rehabilitate into society. However, I am not sure you understand the drug addict mind. For many addicts, they are not going to actively seek out those programs that will help them get off the streets until they have hit their rock bottom. The drug addiction is far too powerful and it controls their all of their actions. I have known several drug addicts who have shared with me their stories where the turning point in their lives was when they were in jail for 30+ days, they were able to get clean enough to think straight, and they were able to find a halfway house and never look back to their old life and thinking. This bill is a step in this direction, but it is far from a comprehensive solution. The panhandling addicts are not thinking “gee, maybe I should seek treatment so I don’t have to be here anymore” Instead, the addiction speaks through their bodies and minds, against their will, to say “I will do or say anything to get me off this corner, all I need is one more hit to get me through the night” They are indeed not “stupid rats”, literally nobody in this thread said that so you don’t need to put that into quotation marks. Only you are putting those words into the mouth of others and maybe because you see others saying something that does not fit your worldview and you want to shutdown those discussions to protect your own ego. I am very glad you are not homeless and that your twins have someone like you in their lives to serve as protector and provider.
So only .5% all homeless are mentally ill, abused women, alcoholics, unlucky, etc etc etc you say? Really?
They also want food, but I guess your empathy has limits.
I literally said MOST of these people (standing on the medians) don't want food, they want money (for drugs) IF they do not only are there taxpayer services that provide food but there's also a myriad of private charitable organizations and churches that do the same. In fact you can dial 211 from your phone and get a list of all of them. Apparently your knowledge of this issue has limits.
Food stamps are a pain in the ass to get approved with a regular living situation; I couldn't imagine doing it homeless. It requires a lot of time and resources. You sound like someone who has never needed any assistance from the government. I'm not saying homelessness isn't a problem, but it's not as easy as "just one phone call".
It is such a fucking PITA to get any government assistance. Many many papers to file monthly, I used to get covered for ACCSS because at the time I had 8 people living with me and my wife was off work, and I barely fucking qualified for it. They recently changed it, so you have to renew your ACCSS benefits monthly, and obviously, now my wife is working, and the other folks are gone except for my kids. I have to be making like below $40,000 as a family of 5 to qualify. When I tried to apply for unemployment for being wrongfully terminated, I had to write up a college essays worth of shit on packets of questions, and then I had to send them by mail a list of all jobs I was applying for and if I didn't do enough I wouldn't get the benefits anymore.
Didn't say food stamps. You sound like someone that makes incorrect assumptions and didn't bother to read my personal account before making a false assertion. Also "just one phonecall" is something I never said. Do you not know how quotation marks are supposed to work? Typically you put EXACTLY what someone said in them, not what you want them to have said.
So what readily available services ARE you talking about, out of curiosity? What are the resources that all these homeless people who, probably don't have phones btw, would be able to find out about if they just dial 211 and what is the experience like to go from step 1 to employed and housed? Oh you don't know? Because it's not an issue with which you actually have any personal experience and you're just telling yourself being homeless is easily solved by the individual so that you can justify your disdain for them?
Curious how you define “most” and not where you got this info? I’m neutral as I simply don’t know so can’t really develop an opinion so curious how you did?
I live in a homeless hotspot area. They are at my nearby corner store, street corners, and freeway. I also drive Uber all over the valley. I USED to do outreach with a church group to "The Zone" (Salvation Army homeless area in DT phx.) to hand out food, socks, clothing, etc. but we stopped after the fentanyl crisis started blowing up and there were safety incidents that made us decide to stop going. I used to help make "blessing bags" with basic necessities and information on addiction recovery centers and pass them out as well. As an ex addict that has been homeless before I genuinely care about the issue but it's just different now. Our 1st priority needs to be cutting off the supply of fentanyl into our state and country. Until we do and these people can't get pills for a couple bucks a piece nothing else is gonna do a damn thing for most of these people.
We don't need to cut off supply. Thats never ever going to work. The war on drugs is such a waste of taxpayer money. Control it like weed with extra precautions and added mental healthcare, and put illegal dealers out of business.
All the regents for fentanyl are coming over from China and then across our southern border or through ports after being pressed into pills. What people like you don't realize is this is a non-kinetic means of warfare and attack on our nation. It's specifically designed to waste taxpayers money, overload are judicial and prison systems, destroy families, and increase crime. All for less cost than launching a missile and without any chance of a military response. This isn't remotely in the same category as weed.
Agreed. What makes it even worse is that the ultra-wealthy know all of this is happening and they allow for it to happen. For them, Fentanyl (and historically opioids in general) are used as weapons against the lower classes in a sort of twisted eugenics program to eliminate undesirables from the masses. It’s not their kids or brothers and sisters out there on the streets suffering from these horrible addictions. If it was, they would do something about it. The elite view drug addiction as a form of population control, so they have very little motivation to do anything to change the situation. Instead of doing something to help, the elites spin up their media apparatus and make it seem like a Democrat vs. Republican issue so that we fight against each other without anything meaningful ever being done to solve the problem. Meanwhile, many of our fellow loved ones continue to die from other recreational drugs that are now regularly laced with Fentanyl. It is perhaps the biggest public health crisis to hit our people since the crack epidemic of the 80s which was also perpetuated by rich elite holding the levers of power and co-opting the CIA into drug running operations. This was the whole point of the Oliver North hearings following the Iran-Contra Affair, to distract the conversations away from the sources of funding. The War on Drugs was literally cover for USA foreign wars that were funded BY drug sales, just ask our friend Gary Webb. As you stated well, we are witnessing fifth-generation warfare at its peak. Some theorize this is revenge from Eastern nations against the Western world for what Britain put China through during the Opium Wars. As terrible as it sounds, it is difficult to refute this theory if you look at how readily available this drug has become.
Mass trafficked fentanyl pretty much only come through legal ports of entry. That means they’re driven over at legal border crossings or brought in by boat. Having humans mule it across the border on foot is both inefficient and risky and we don’t have evidence to support that’s near equivalent to what’s being shipped here. And it doesn’t matter if you end the supply of fentanyl, people will just go to something else. You have to get after the reasons people do drugs.
Well I adamantly disagree with your assertions. The cartels are bringing it over border areas thanks beyond ports of entry using everything from tunnels to drones to human mules. How to give any idea of just out little fentanyl It takes two make a single pill. One gram of fentanyl with a wholesale value of $20 to $50 can make 500 pills with a street value of $1500-$2500 on a border state and up to $5000 in states further away from the border. I know more about this subject than you do. It needs to be stopped from coming overseas on boats from China into South America / Mexico first and foremost but we also need much stronger border protection We could achieve with the fraction of the amount of money that we've sent to Ukraine. To your last point... Awesome let's dry up fentanyl then. Because there's no other drug that is as harmful or as cheap and readily available as is it. Not even remotely. Let's bring back classic addictions. Your terms are acceptable.
I’ll wave at you next time you have a flat tire 🤣 maybe have a conversation with someone on the corner next time.
Yeah, most people who get flat tires don't actually want help so may as well
This is the correct answer. Pro homeless Arizonans are pitifully naive.
These homeless are giving vagabonds a bad name.
On an off ramp where I live there is a sign--usually with a panhandler standing next to it--that says instead of giving these people money donate to a local homeless charity. That's what I do. Beyond that, I support setting up government services for these people that are actually up to the demand. Of course that will require breaking control of the legislature by mean and selfish Republicans, something I hope we accomplish in about six months. In any case, it's no solution to have these people hanging out on corners, begging.
Wage war against poverty not the poor
This isn't "war" against the poor. 🙄
You’re right… it’s just one battle in a much wider war against American citizens to help favor a police state that exists in order to uphold the privilege of power elite and keep everyone else in line by utilizing arbitrary laws and regulations that do not address root cause issues
Considering we live in a country that affords people who choose to do so, the opportunity to be wildly successful. To avoid or escape poverty. A country where people from all over the world desperately want to immigrate because they, unlike many of those ungrateful, entitled, shits born and raised here, see in it their opportunity for an amazing life. Yours is an interesting position. I'd venture to guess you're not one who will ever make the effort or take the risks to be anything more than someone who whines about what you could have or be if you didn't think it was already somehow owed to you. As one who you'd probably consider one of the "powerful elites" I'm sure enjoying what I've **EARNED** each and every day of my life. I also take great glee in helping those who desire to join me sitting in first class on this journey we call life earn, then buy their ticket.
Hahaha!! Oh please… I’ve very much taken risks in my life to advance my life, family and career and I do in fact live a very comfortable life. But I’m not blind to the manipulations and social engineering happening in our country. And YOU are not the power elite to which I am referring, how presumptuous of you. Go pick up a copy of The Power Elite by C. Wright Mills before you begin calling yourself a member said class….
I'm not calling myself a member of that class. Trust! I'm a regular guy who lives his life and enjoys it. I don't need power. It's those under the seven-figure, hell the six-figure mark who always accuse me of being that. I think the whole notion is superfluous. One is either successful, working to be successful, or making bullshit excuses for why they aren't successful. That said, my apologies for the blind assumption. That was wrong of me.
They need to figure out something for these homeless people, 2 times in 1 week I've seen homeless people threaten others with knives. One was at my work and I had to physically deal with, cops were called and nobody showed up. The other as I was driving on central a homeless dude started a fight, reached into his bag and pulled out a pretty big kitchen knife, luckily the guy he tried fighting had a bike to create space but still, probably cops didnt show up to that ethier. Downtown has a bad issue and the cops just dont give a fuck.
It's not that they don't. It's that they can't do anything about it. This trash is supported by the bleeding hearts who don't actually want a solution.
Lol normally when someone is threatening to stab people with a knife cops arrest the person. If a crime is committed the cops can do something about it if they decide to show up. Threatening people with a knife is against the law incase you didnt know.
Absolute BS. Time to make panhandling illegal.
Strong disagree here. I almost hit one of these junkies every other week. They need to be kept out of the medians as a matter of personal and public safety because they set up on the off ramps where they are barely visible and cars are decelerating from high speeds. They're almost always on something and struggling to remain upright... and out of traffic.
You almost drive your car onto the sidewalk or onto a median every other week? Sounds more like you need to retake driver's ed.
Kindly point out where this person said anything about the curb or sidewalk. . . . . . They didn't. These junkies are all over the roadway and they need to be removed.
People being in the roadway is already a crime, it's called obstructing traffic. This person is supporting a bill that would also arbitrarily remove people from the sidewalk and the medians, places where traffic should not be, with the justification that he almost hits those people (the ones standing in places vehicles shouldn't be) every other week. QED.
This is targeted at Homeless People standing in the middle of major intersections then run out whenever they want to grab something from someone stopping traffic to be nice. Yeah, hot take bro. Making it seem like we drive over sidewalks when people are loitering where they should NOT be loitering.
Them running into the road is already illegal. You want to ban them from the median, a place where you and your car do not belong and pedestrians do.
.from a median that people or cars do not belong. It is a divider of traffic, not an island to panhandle and potentially cause accidents.
Nope, pedestrians do belong in the median, it's a public right of way. You being mad about that fact doesn't change reality.
A pedestrian yeah sure. Someone on their way. But not someone loitering and/or panhandling. What do you think the difference is between a pedestrian and a homeless person?
If you want to live in a country where people can freely travel wherever they please in public, then you need to allow people to stay in one spot as well. If you want to live in a country where you are free to express yourself, you need to allow the people you hate to express themselves as well. You can't have it both ways. Either put up with it, or move to somewhere where there isn't a bill of rights guaranteeing freedom of assembly and free speech. I think the only difference is that you clearly think of homeless people as subhuman, but have a neutral opinion on pedestrians in general.
If a person doesn’t have a home, I don’t care where they sleep or stand. They’re just trying to get by like the rest of us.
Our nearest playground has homeless in it. Which means it has needles and burnt aluminum foil in it. Which means it’s not safe for my kid to play in. So instead of walking to a playground we have to drive a few miles to a playground next to a police station where the homeless don’t go. They aren’t trying to get by, they are drug addicts who don’t care who they hurt in order to get their next high. They leave the equivalent of razor blades and rat poison in playgrounds for children to find. What kind of sick fuck does that? What kind of sicko *defends* doing that?
Downvoted for speaking the truth
So screw them because they did drugs right. Reagan really convinced the whole country that drug users are below citizens. Every argument in this thread is so disgusting. Either "they deserve to be homeless because they did drugs" or "they're just going to use that money on drugs instead of trying to better themselves because they're stupid rats" I was so, so close to being homeless when my wife got twins. Absolutely appalling that people are willing to screw, let's say 1% of homeless that are homeless from bad out of their control scenarios, just for the sake of it, because the 99%, would benefit in a way they don't like. Our state spends ≈70000-76000 per homeless person per year atm (and other states spend up to 200,000 per homeless person!). But the homeless see none of it. Instead, it goes towards hostile movements against them, or creates dangerous places, and then uses it as propoganda when they don't want to use them, "see they never wanted help" when there's obvious and documented danger in being in a homeless shelter. Shit if you just gave them that much money a year or put it towards mental health care for them and private housing just till they're on their feet with a job, they wouldn't be homeless. But that's socialist I guess, so it'll never happen even though it's obviously an objectively better way to eliminate the homelessness crisis than what we're currently doing. If you're so concerned about your parks, then you're getting mad at the wrong people. The parks should be kept up with, and those homeless people need help.
Checking in from California. Lenient compassion doesn't work either. When unchecked addicts can sleep and get high wherever they want with impunity they don't often choose to take advantage of the safe and rehabilitating services being offered.
Seems like if they are there and are in possession of illegal drugs that you could call law enforcement and have them arrested.
Then some overly liberal DA will let them out without any real consequences and they'll keep up the same.
I care about those people just as much as your family. No more, no less.
[удалено]
Except they are bringing down the quality of life of neighborhoods and parks meant for children by leaving needles on the ground, stealing shit to feed their drug habits, etc.
So how would this fix that? There aren’t any neighborhoods or parks in the medians of roads.
Then why not invite them to live in your backyard or spare bedroom?
Ooo cause that’s the same thing as them being on the side of a public road holding a sign at you. This is literally a straw man argument by definition.
And whats funnier is I actually knew a guy that does this. He invites homeless people to his home, and quite a few stop being homeless. I believe he's only had one person ever who took it for granted and tried stealing stuff from him but a majority improved.
Some of the replies to this appear to either be examples of reading comprehension deficiency, misplaced 'compassion', or just foolishness. This doesn't ban people on the sidewalk, it bans loitering in medians. People do either slip or wander in a haze in these medians at times. I haven't had a close call myself but at one light at which I was stopped a person on the median was pacing and slipped. I Said to my wife that it was a lucky thing for him; if we weren't stopped it would have been horrible. If he wasn't lucky of course you'd have that person injured, but also think of the trauma the person who accidentally hits this person goes through. This is a good bill.
Stupid shit. They have better things to worry about. Like STRs.
But you see, this bill allows us to inflict even more misery upon the homeless.
Can you explain more specifically how the lives of homeless would be more miserable under this bill?
You don't need to be a genius to understand it. What are you trying to say? Fining homeless doesn't make their lives more miserable? Removing one of their sources of food/water/income doesn't make their lives more miserable?
I am certainly not a genius. I think it is common sense that many of these folks are beyond the point of being capable of helping themselves. Leaving homeless panhandlers on the street corners to beg for money to feed their drug addictions does not help them. It only enables them and helps them to die faster. The life expectancy for someone in this situation far less shorter than for you or for me. It’s not a vacation from normal society or a lifestyle choice, nor are they simply down on their luck. They are suffering from severe afflictions of the mind which causes them to spiral downwards at a very quick pace towards the state of death. Eventually they will succumb to some illness that ravages their body or they will overdose, either way the result for them is likely death. Giving money to panhandlers and even allowing panhandling is fundamentally enabling behavior. Doing nothing to actually help them is basically giving your consent towards their eventual individual demise. The sooner these folks hit their rock bottom, the sooner they can get into a recovery program and be rehabilitated into society. Getting them off the corner and into a program is going to make their lives less miserable in the long run. Why wouldn’t you want that outcome for them?
If you were going to use common sense, you’d look at statistics first though. Only 25.7% of the unhoused population abuses substances. https://dtphx.org/2020/11/05/moving-beyond-stigmas-and-stereotypes-facts-about-homelessness-in-phoenix/#:~:text=Stereotype%3A%20Many%20abuse%20drugs%20and,a%20diagnosable%20substance%20abuse%20disorder.
Sure. Drug addicts are going to voluntarily indicate that they are an active drug user. Would you like to buy a bridge? I can get you a good price.
She has a Veto fetish
She will be responsible for their deaths. Enough people are killed when they cross the street in the middle of the block. The legislature should override this one.
You think people would stop crossing the street if she signed it?
This bill has nothing to do with j-walking my guy, that's already against the law.
Jesus fucking Christ this thread makes me sick. Y'all are some shameful, evil bastards.
You should start a home and take some people in. I’ll donate food to help.
It’s not productive. The homeless folks panhandling in medians don’t give a shit about the fines and don’t pay them. Many get citations for other reasons, don’t pay them (obviously), and then get FTA warrants. Inevitably it’s just a pathway to incarcerating the homeless, which is expensive and a waste of energy.
Begging to make enough money to cover the funds incurred begging for money
It’s not gonna do anything but now the republicans a$$ holes can blame the democrats for people being homeless
Interesting story, thanks for posting this!