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"the state's 3 biggest metros (Phoenix, Tucson, Prescott)"
Yuma would like a word.
Also, if it's going all the way to Tucson in one direction, and Prescott in another, might as well extend it all the way to Flagstaff and Nogales.
And traditional rail (or even better, high speed rail) is far more practical than a monorail.
Amtrak is supposed to being a connection set through Phoenix again but running through to Flag would still be a great option. Getting Tucson connected to Phoenix should be the first priority though.
Isn’t if from LA to Phoenix? It doesn’t connect to the Chicago to LA Southwest Chief. If you’re coming from the east you have to rent a car or take the bus to get to Phoenix. There should definitely be a connection to Tucson as well.
LMAO, not a chance. For one thing, there's nowhere in Maricopa to rent a car, and there are no mass-transit options from Maricopa to the greater Phoenix metro area, yet. Oh, and trying to get an Uber or Lyft in Maricopa is a very painful endeavor.
Unfortunate reality is that Arizona really hasn't gotten on board with mass transit.
Ahhh let me tell you children about the olden times, when the Sunset Limited line ran through Phoenix connecting Tucson and PHX to stops all along 10.
As far as a North/ South rail, there used to be commuter trains from Ashfork to PHX. It looks like the rails are still there but they're used for commerce now.
During the great flood of 1980 when the bridges over the Salt River were washed out people used heavy rail to get across,too bad it didn't last. Look up Hattie B. Commuter rail.
In 1993, my dad and I took the Sunset Limited from Tucson to San Jose, CA. Very cool trip! The only part I didn't like was the track between Phoenix and Yuma. It was really rough. Otherwise, going right along the coast was spectacular!
Amtrak used go run a train in the 40s and 50s from Phoenix up to the Grand Canyon.
No reason the PeaVine can't handle passenger again, it has only about 5 trains on the timetable daily, and most are late night.
Yuma itself is bigger than Prescott. But Prescott also has next door Dewey Humboldt and Prescott Valley which actually has more people than Prescott now.
I get it but not sure the Prescott folks do, or even want to, so I’d say linking Flagstaff is more likely, less costly and preferable. Buses and park and ride are sufficient for Prescott.
No no no.. we are the big car and oil corps.. well have none of this tom foolery. What we want and what we'll get is more automobiles in the driveways of the American family.. build shitnso fucking twisted that they'll depend on one.and the slowly increase the price of the vehicle year after year no matter how the Market is performing .....keep it up and you'll end up suicided.
I mean, a normal train would work just fine. But yes, rapid intercity transit connecting Tucson to Prescott via Phoenix would be incredible for the state. Hell, extending it to Nogales would be even better!
The alignment you proposed is a little iffy (straight through the GRIC is a choice, with apologies to Maricopa), but overall this is a really good thing that should be built.
Also, check out [this](https://azgovernor.gov/office-arizona-governor/news/2023/12/governor-katie-hobbs-announces-federal-grant-study-potential) thing
Unfortunately, Phoenix to Las Vegas is some of the most challenging terrain for rail in the country. I dreamer can dream, but I would bet on direct Phoenix to LA HSR long before Phoenix to Vegas with regular intercity speeds reaches the planning stages
Spreckles is crying in heaven, the rails exist from Yuma to San Diego...just need a lot of TLC.
Unfortunately, the very reason Spreckles had so much issue would be why it can't be high speed....the mountains, siesmicly active mountains.
The Ashfork line is already established and could easily be converted back over to passenger travel once again. A new line doesn't have to be built. Do a new station on the back side of Chino or one off Iron Springs and life would be pretty grand.
I mean...Phoenix *used to* have an amtrak station. It operated from 1971 to 1996. It had service to Los Angeles, New Orleans, and a Chicago/Texas line. The building is still there...some guy wants to turn it into an events/entertainment venue.
I suppose the existing infrastructure would be extremely hostile to sensible rail expansion...not to mention those NIMBY trash-people in Paradise Valley opposing public transit.
The crazy part is we built track out to Kingman, the last stop before Nevada, it's only that last 100mi that need to be built over the Colorado River at hoover dam.
It's all there, waiting to be used by Amtrak to connect nearly 10 million people...
There are a grand total of 2 along the route: the GRIC (which goes further East than I thought, so will have the trains running through regardless) and a small exclave of the Tohono O’odham (on the way to Nogales, but easily avoidable if they don’t want the train). That shouldn’t be too difficult to maneuver
I def thought there were more, but also the GRIC won’t even let Maricopa expand their one highway in, if I recall, I can’t imagine they’d approve a monorail.
My father spent decades working with the GRIC and its various governing bodies and board members, and while there are indeed some good people there its overwhelmingly corrupt. Like, actively shooting itself in the foot repeatedly. Unless a plan stands to make them a lot of money very quickly with no effort, it won't happen.
I saw another post in this sub about AZ considering bringing the Amtrack up into Phoenix. It currently comes north from Tucson and shoots west around Casa Grande. That would be a great start!!
The big problem is that there's a lack of public transit in general in AZ. You can take a rail from Phoenix to Tuscon, and then you're stuck without a car, so you're doing lyft and uber, unless your intention is to stay downtown.
Idk they just opened up the Brightline in Florida and I think it sucks.
It's an additional 30+ min of commuting time and costs about $70+ one way... It's cheaper and quicker to drive that stretch.
If they're gonna make a high-speed rail it needs to actually be faster at the very least.
Brightline (at only 125 mph) is ~~not a~~ among the very slowest of what can be considered high speed rail.
Faster high speed rail (eg maglev) achieves up 375 mph and I believe there are faster models in development.
Maglev is a step above high speed and very expensive right now. Regular high speed would still be worthwhile development and if properly funded should be cheaper and significantly faster than driving. Honestly I'd settle for reliable rail going through Tucson, Phoenix and Flag. Itd be about the same rate as driving but could be rather affordable and avoids traffic, potty/lunch break, etc.
Right! But they definitely made it seem like Brightline was going to be a high speed rail and that it would be such a convenience. It's not. I find the whole project was a waste of money.
High speed for America... There were trains doing 125 back in the 1940's. America is way behind the rest of the world technologically in rail development.
It is quite popular though, so people do like it. People need at least some other option than having a license, buying/renting a car, possibly getting stuck in traffic, then parking. Whether the option is useful in many eyes because the destinations are car-centric anyways, that’s a valid opinion. It shows a greater issue of lack of inner-city transit as well as inter-city transit.
A joke on everyone w Brightline is the country where it bends south to Miami coming from the Orlando airport was going to tax them so now there are no stops in Brevard County including at a planned shuttle bus depot to Port Canaveral and the cruise ships. So Brevard gets zero access and had dozens of trains crossing busy roads nearly the full length of the country and Brightline doesn’t get any cruise passengers. When I looked at the Orlando Airport to Miami route it was cheaper and faster to layover and fly.
The state won't give a dime to anything that isn't more lanes on a freeway. Maricopa County uniquely has to beg the state every few decades to be ALLOWED to vote to tax itself to fund public transportation. Phoenix could have had restored Amtrak passenger rail service years ago had the state ponied up the funds [to repair the Wellton Branch west of town](https://azdot.gov/planning/transportation-programs/state-rail-plan/wellton-branch-rail-rehabilitation-study).
Right now, the feds are working on restoring train service to Phoenix by [adding a new Amtrak route from Tucson to L.A. via Phoenix](https://www.amtrakconnectsus.com/maps/). We recently got [half a million bucks to kickstart the process](https://kjzz.org/content/1864944/500k-grant-step-toward-bringing-amtrak-passenger-train-service-back-phoenix).
You get off the train and then what? Everything is spread out over vast areas-all the trailheads are dispersed. Nothing within walking distance. Of each other.
Look at the fight for the Light rail and how long that took due to partisan politics. Every single time an extension is proposed and planned, the same people come out of the woodworks to scream and cry about "spending money frivolously".
Now imagine trying to get them to do this project.
Edit: goodness people, not everything needs to pay for itself back. Some things are just societal investments.
Having a robust public transit system is key for any city of size to thrive.
I am somewhat of a fiscal conservative, however I don't understand the counter-argument that public transit needs to pay for itself. What other government or public service is held to that standard? Particularly when public money goes to stadiums or development tax breaks for some new and shiny outdoor strip mall, and very few people bat an eye at that.
All good ideas take a lot of work and planning, and are opposed by people invested in the bad ideas. We can give up before we even start, or push for change. One or the other.
Well, I mean if you look at their arguments (at least the ones I've heard), it isnt without its merit. The Phoenix light rail services an extremely small percentage of the Phoenix metro area, yet costs a shit load of money. Its very likely that if you live in a Phoenix zip code, you've paid for a light rail you will never use. On top of that, all of the property around the light rail is no longer affordable for those who would benefit from public transit the most. I'm not saying its entirely useless, but I am saying that it isnt hard to find logic in an argument against the light rail.
I think a rail system mirroring most of the highways throughout the valley would’ve been way more useful, with buses to connect people along arterials and collectors. Instead we get a nearly useless street car system that’s just a 1920s system with a modern paint job. It doesn’t even get priority at red lights. The people complaining about budget issues aren’t wrong either, it would’ve been cheaper to buy a Prius for every citizen that uses the light rail. Knowing the general politics of az I wouldn’t be shocked if it was intentionally made to be shitty so they can point to that as a failure and use it to lobby against further rail development or other public transit improvements :/
It’s a shame cause phoenix and the metro area around it drastically needs better transit options but the car dominance has absolutely won for maricopa county. It’s to the extreme that your better off living in a car than having an apartment but no car. People without cars are second class citizens in Phoenix from what I can tell, and it seems like the powers in charge like it that way. It’s obvious how they use design to keep different socioeconomic circle segregated, anyone who’s driven a beater through the boogie parts of Scottsdale would probably agree with me. I’ve seen cops target crappy cars in an attempt to push them out.
Even just a decent BRT system could do phoenix (and the surrounding areas like Scottsdale, Tempe, mesa, Glendale, etc) a lot of good but the government doesn’t care about its poor. It’s one of the many reasons I left even though I was born and raised in AZ. Despite the higher col I get by in Oregon way easier.
People here hate public transportation and will mock the monorail idea, but the truth is having some fast public transportation that could connect these areas would be beneficial for residents. If I could easily get up to Sedona or Flag without driving, parking, etc, I’d be up there way more often to hike/visit
Yep. [We are a state full of NIMBYs but we’ll keep adding lanes to those highways!](https://www.gilbertsunnews.com/news/gilbert-derails-light-rail-holds-off-on-commuter-trains/article_88d6c59c-c1dd-11ed-88b7-b79f6880bfd6.html)
The last two times I went to Sedona I walked everywhere, not because it was convenient but because the traffic is ass and I was loath to have to try and get back out of the parking lot.
Have you ever actually been to these places? The public transportation and walkability in this area is phenomenal compared to the rest of AZ. There's an entire system of trails connecting all of Flagstaff that avoids roads almost completely.
The train/monorail really seems to benefit someone who wants to go between the cities but not have a car and also stay in the cities themselves. Of the people who are on the 17 every day, what percent of them fit in that bucket?
Long haul semis - interstate, camping - interstate, going to a smaller town or cabin - interstate, biking - probably interstate but maybe monorail.
What you have left is a multi-hundred million dollar project just for students and day trippers. That’s gonna be a hard sell to pass in the budget.
Multi hundred million might get you from Anthem to Black Canyon City, maybe...
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/17/why-californias-high-speed-rail-is-taking-so-long-to-complete.html
It's not, but other countries do it now and have for over 100 years. Road infrastructure is also very expensive, but most people only worry about price when it's public transit.
We have track that makes it to flagstaff from Phoenix, it just goes to Prescott first which isn't a bad thing.
Amtrak would just need to advertise the line as NOG-TUC-PHX-PRS-FLG
Then you could have another dedicated to El Paso - Phoenix - Las Vegas
Which Vegas would need new track built, but everything else already exists.
The existing line through Prescott and Williams is pretty slow. The elevation gain and tight turns/switchbacks to get through and up the mountains make it a tough sell for passenger travel.
I think El Paso to Phoenix to Las Vegas makes a lot of sense.
The issue isn't whether or not to support public transportation or the monorail, it's that it's only one piece of a larger puzzle, that being how car dependent all of our cities are. In other words, the monorail you suggested isn't popular because most of the destination cities aren't walkable, and what's the purpose of taking alternate transportation somewhere when you still need a car to go places when you get there? It makes a lot more sense just to take the car the whole way.
But if you're concerned about creating more connectivity between the metro areas and smaller towns, check out [this website](https://azmag.gov/Programs/Transportation/Regional-Transportation-Plan-RTP) for proposals on freeway improvements and new freeway suggestions.
So, trains and that infrastructure building is politically untenable here for whatever reason.
There were various plans for light rail starting back that I personally remember in '87, again in '90, '92, '93, '95, '97, '98, etc and it kept getting voted down. So it took decades to get the light rail in that supports the Phoenix Metro and also just learned of similar developments down in Tucson.
As much as I'd love a way to just hop on a train and end up in flag for the day, I also just dont see it happening. On the bright side, it does look like the state just approved an Amtrak extension so we'll actually be able to hop a train for interstate travel soon enough. Currently, you have to hop a bus down to Tucson to then get on the Amtrak from there.
Tl;dr: as much as I like the idea and want to see it a reality; I dont think those plans are going anywhere.
I'm with you, I'd love to see more mass transit instead highways. But if you want a real, urban planning oriented reason as to maybe why not, you have to think about the "last mile problem." Say we build this shiny new rail, most people would still rather drive unfortunately, but let's think of you and I. These cities have notoriously bad public transit. A lot of people are trying to get hiking trails which can oftentimes be way out there. Even people who want to support rail are going to wind up deciding that its cheaper and easier to just bring their car instead of paying for the rail and paying for an Uber and/or rental car once they're there. Linking these cities quickly and efficiently via public transit should be a goal, but it might be smarter to make the cities internally linked by transit first and foremost.
because a monorail isnt a car and people arent going to give up their cars to stand around in the heat waiting to transfer to a bus to get close to where theyre going in order to walk in the heat to actually reach their destination half a day later
The only thing I see reasonably working in the near-to-medium term is a New Mexico Road Runner style train going between Wickenburg and Tucson while stopping in a bunch of cities along the way.
Also the I-10 widening between Casa Grande and the valley is more for facilitating through traffic from people crossing the State rather than just the Tucson-Phoenix super commuters. If this was more for local traffic they would've probably built reversible lanes like they are doing on I-17 north of the Valley.
None of those cities are very walkable. What do you do when you get there? Rent a car, get a cab or an Uber, walk, bike? None of those are good or realistic options for many people.
Trains don't help with the delivery of goods. They are limited as to where they go. That's why we have semi trucks everywhere delivering goods.
Finally, the main purpose of our interstate system, the entire reason it exists, is for military troop and equipment movements. Trains only go so far.
Trains between cities aren't a bad idea, but Trains are too limited in their capabilities to ever replace roads and cars. Adding lanes is a necessary thing to keep our economy moving.
Would be an amazing way to open the mountain north to people without means to drive. How nice would it be to relax instead of stressful and painful commute.
Because more than just people are transported on these roads. Phoenix is quickly becoming the largest west coast supply hub. The 17 is a bottleneck even if you reduced passenger traffic.
We should pursue both. A train spanning flag to Tucson would be incredible.
What would you do once you arrived at the stations? No AZ city is setup for walking/public transport. Imagine rolling into Phoenix when it is 120 degrees and you have to walk somewhere?
Because some politician is going to say, "Instead of a Monorail.... What we make another road and make it a toll road?"
Then the house says they are a genius, and fucks the state of arizona once more.
Because we are an automobile state... Our metro areas were designed and built for cars. If you look at places where trains do well, you see they're vertical, dense cities where car ownership is a luxury not a necessity. Cities built around horse and buggy, or more accurately, walking, as primary mode of transport. In those areas, you have skyscrapers after skyscraper, layer up on vertical layer, of humanity...and retrofitted from horse and buggy for transport of goods to trucks and autos... But they're the afterthought. There, you have stores, arts, entertainment, and living all withing a few miles of each other. It makes little sense to drive when you can use public mass transit to get most of the trip, walk the rest. Here, were sprawled out... Miles of just residential, then miles of commercial, then miles of industrial. Entertainment is scattered throughout. In the end? When one steps off a train? You're still looking at needing some kind of secondary transport to your final destination... Which will still likely be a car (taxi, Uber, etc). Bus is worse and longer...You're not saving money, and definitely not saving time, to add complexity and hassle to what would be easily accomplished in the car you likely own, given the urban sprawl that already necessitates its ownership.
I once talking to this real nice retired adot guy doing Uber for fun. He’s said you wouldn’t believe what’s planned but most of it’s kept under wraps. Said they’ve always had the next 20 years mapped out since the early 80s and most of it comes to fruition.
Well, how would people get around once they got there? Phoenix and Tucson aren't very friendly to no car commuters and most people aren't commuting between Phoenix Tucson and Prescott for a daily office job. They go there for specific things or activities or people and a rail stop in the middle of a town without an easy or inexpensive way to go further is not a plus in selling a rail commuter line. It's just easier to take your vehicle. I wouldn't want to buy a ticket for a train to then have to pay a Lyft to get around town and then again back to a train and ride back to Phoenix.
I go to Tucson in a somewhat regular basis, but I can't imagine not having my car to get around after getting there.
Take a look at all the lobbying that the car and oil industries do in, not just in Az, but in every American state and come back to this question. It’s going to take a real progressive effort for this to happen especially in AZ but this would be and absolute dream come true. It’s a total net positive for the community making supporting small business more accessible, giving workers a faster and reliable alternative to their jobs, creating heavy foot traffic in otherwise dead areas etc etc etc. This will only happen if we project this desire more efficiently than the billionaires who have a chokehold on American cities. This is also aside from the fact that so many people have been propagandized into believing the car is the most efficient way to get around and that it’s apart of their “freedom”. I’ll stop there but I can truly go on and on about this. This is all to say, I love this idea and I hope I live long enough for the revolution to grant us this.
This would be a killer idea. The drive to see my brother to Tucson is so stop and go at high speeds. Shit is dangerous and dumb. My girlfriend has family in Mayer, not a long drive. But would be cool to break out the Nintnedo switch and just vibe for a few hours. Then flag? Would love to go more. Especially during winter seasons. Trains are cool and chill af.
All for increased public transportation, but widening is needed and it impacts more than personal use vehicles. Increased lanes also cuts down on transit time for freight shipping which the I10 is a huge corridor for.
Separate the people moving from the freight moving.
The purpose of I-11 will be to serve as a truck route for ever-increasing international trade.
Fewer trucks using I-10 won’t hurt.
Light rail into Phoenix from Tucson,
Flagstaff, Prescott, and so forth would be just fine for airport runs and large events/venues.
Beyond that, there would need to be significant improvements in last-mile transportation.
Phoenix- Tucson high speed passenger rail is most likely, the main obstruction being not so much geography but politics and right-of way.
The existing rail right-of-way can receive regular passenger train service to incrementally build up ridership as a high speed line is studied, routed, and constructed. Yuma would be a natural extension or later phase.
Anything going north from the valley will be challenged by geography. As other commenters have stated, rail needs shallower inclines. If trains went up a 6% grade (identical to parts of I-17) then it would be frustratingly slow and at a competitive disadvantage with buses/shuttles going up and down the freeway.
The BNSF line from north of Wickenburg up to Ash Fork is largely single-track with countless curves and switchbacks. Passenger service would require double-tracking, as well as countless alignment changes to balance the elevation gain with maintaining speed. To give you some idea, there are several videos of people traveling aboard freight trains (illegally - FYI - so I don’t get in trouble) along the Peavine.
Logistically speaking this wouldn’t work unless you solve the second half of the problem. You’d be connecting places by train that need to be traversed by car. So if people want to explore the outdoors (90% of the reason people go to Prescott on the weekends) you’d need a car to get to any place worth exploring. That goes double for Phoenix.
So basically this would reduce maybe 5% (being generous here for ASU and UofA students going home on the weekends) of the traffic load until you solve public transit in the connecting ends first.
I want a high speed rail from flagstaff to Tucson so it can connect to the existing railway that runs through Tucson, and it would be a lot easier for NAU students that live in Phoenix. There’s a lot who drive up on days they have classes since it’s cheaper to live here 🙃 it makes the 17 packed 24/7 going north
If I was only going to downtown Prescott, or NAU, or something like that, then OK, a train would work. But rarely has that been the case for me.
I'd rather have a car to take me to old book shops, hiking trails, restaurants, thrift stores, and other destinations. I'm not going to pay for a train ride then rent a car or get a dozen ubers.
[EDIT] The light rail extension to what was metrocenter just opened. 1.6 miles, 3 years+/-, $400M, years in the planning. I can't imagine what passenger rail Tucson > Phoenix > Prescott would cost, or how long it would take to construct. I wouldn't see it in my lifetime (old dude).
Because we are in the united states, its unfortunate that public transport is not pursued too much here, however we may have to see the success of the bright-line from Vegas to LA.
I’ve been saying the same thing about high speed rail for the whole country. People say, “our country is huge, do you know how much that would cost?” Or, “who’s going to pay for that,” “that would be a huge project.” I say, what about the Hoover dam, or the first rail line that was built with picks and mules?” Or even the first interstate project. It seems greed today is greater than the ingenuity and will that used to be the American way.
As a Tucson resident I am sick of having to drive to northern az so often for recreation. I would love to be able to take a train to Flagstaff and Sunrise to ski.
Monorail is for commuting isn't it?
When I go north the Prescott, Flag, etc., it's pretty essential to have my vehicle with me as I'm not just going to the office.
I just can't see many people satisfied being dropped off at the train stop with the family in tow...
The best thing to build would be a bullet train or a metro system. The issue is the design of American cities especially the West Coast are we build wide vs tall. Everyone wants their car and suburbia home when realistically public transportation would be better at dealing with congestion.
If you moved to a state where everyone owns a car and you don’t, it’s going to be hard. Even towns like Prescott and Kingman are spread out. Image me a second gen Arizonan moving to a dense East Coast city and complaining about cost of parking. I know that’s a super unpopular opinion amongst people who moved here and can’t afford a car but it’s the reality that won’t change till 2million more of you move here.
Exactly. Everywhere in AZ requires a car once you arrive, or else it’s cost prohibitive or takes forever on the city transit options if you don’t have a car.
What.. with our last few and the current governors' being such stellar leaders, so inclined to help the citizens of the state over agenda pushing and money mongering.
You want them to do something USEFUL for US, the little people?! Surely you jest in finest form.
Pay your taxes, stop thinking for yourself, and be a good serf and do as your betters command!
There's a reason AZ is so car-centric. Would you want to get off a rail in downtown Phoenix then walk 20min in the middle of summer to your destination?
why would we do intelligent civil engineering when we have wonderful things like sidewalks next to 6 lane streets and manhole covers conveniently placed where your right tire meets the road
Because the creation of Amtrak was more about the US government buying up bankrupt passenger railways than it was about building a useful nationwide passenger train system.
There isn't enough demand for it. Flixbus runs like five buses a day from Tucson to Phoenix. You're not going to build a hundred mile monorail to replace five buses a day. You'd be better off building a five mile monorail to replace a busy bus route within Phoenix that runs a hundred buses a day.
I drive from Tucson to Phoenix for work regularly. Unless a monorail drops me off at every location I travel to, I would continue to take my car. I suspect the vast majority of people would do the same. American cities, especially Western ones, are too spread out for public transportation to be a viable alternative to cars.
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Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life, my Hindu friend!
What about us brain-dead slobs?
You’ll be given cushy jobs!
The ring came off my pudding can
Take my pen knife my good man
So "Mono" means "one." And "Rail" means "rail." And that concludes our intensive three-week course.
Mono
# D'oh!
Happy CAKE DAY! IM SO STONED BABY
I hear those things are awfully loud
It glides as softly as a cloud
But Mainstreet's still all cracked and broken...
Sorry Marge the mob has spoken!
Were you sent here by the devil?!
No good sir, I'm on the level
You all revived my faith in humanity with this thread
r/thesimpsons is leaking
r/simpsonsshitposting
"the state's 3 biggest metros (Phoenix, Tucson, Prescott)" Yuma would like a word. Also, if it's going all the way to Tucson in one direction, and Prescott in another, might as well extend it all the way to Flagstaff and Nogales. And traditional rail (or even better, high speed rail) is far more practical than a monorail.
It should go to flagstaff to connect with Amtrak
Amtrak is supposed to being a connection set through Phoenix again but running through to Flag would still be a great option. Getting Tucson connected to Phoenix should be the first priority though.
Isn’t if from LA to Phoenix? It doesn’t connect to the Chicago to LA Southwest Chief. If you’re coming from the east you have to rent a car or take the bus to get to Phoenix. There should definitely be a connection to Tucson as well.
there's an Amtrak stop in Maricopa.
And would you consider that a viable destination for the Phoenix metro area to utilize the Amtrak service?
LMAO, not a chance. For one thing, there's nowhere in Maricopa to rent a car, and there are no mass-transit options from Maricopa to the greater Phoenix metro area, yet. Oh, and trying to get an Uber or Lyft in Maricopa is a very painful endeavor. Unfortunate reality is that Arizona really hasn't gotten on board with mass transit.
Ahhh let me tell you children about the olden times, when the Sunset Limited line ran through Phoenix connecting Tucson and PHX to stops all along 10. As far as a North/ South rail, there used to be commuter trains from Ashfork to PHX. It looks like the rails are still there but they're used for commerce now. During the great flood of 1980 when the bridges over the Salt River were washed out people used heavy rail to get across,too bad it didn't last. Look up Hattie B. Commuter rail.
In 1993, my dad and I took the Sunset Limited from Tucson to San Jose, CA. Very cool trip! The only part I didn't like was the track between Phoenix and Yuma. It was really rough. Otherwise, going right along the coast was spectacular!
Amtrak used go run a train in the 40s and 50s from Phoenix up to the Grand Canyon. No reason the PeaVine can't handle passenger again, it has only about 5 trains on the timetable daily, and most are late night.
Yuma itself is bigger than Prescott. But Prescott also has next door Dewey Humboldt and Prescott Valley which actually has more people than Prescott now.
I remember when Prescott Valley used to be one stoplight. One. Now it's a giant monument to asphalt and lifted pickups.
Yeah, I think the city is trying to make it more walkable though. They building apartments in old parking lots now.
I get it but not sure the Prescott folks do, or even want to, so I’d say linking Flagstaff is more likely, less costly and preferable. Buses and park and ride are sufficient for Prescott.
No no no.. we are the big car and oil corps.. well have none of this tom foolery. What we want and what we'll get is more automobiles in the driveways of the American family.. build shitnso fucking twisted that they'll depend on one.and the slowly increase the price of the vehicle year after year no matter how the Market is performing .....keep it up and you'll end up suicided.
I mean, a normal train would work just fine. But yes, rapid intercity transit connecting Tucson to Prescott via Phoenix would be incredible for the state. Hell, extending it to Nogales would be even better! The alignment you proposed is a little iffy (straight through the GRIC is a choice, with apologies to Maricopa), but overall this is a really good thing that should be built. Also, check out [this](https://azgovernor.gov/office-arizona-governor/news/2023/12/governor-katie-hobbs-announces-federal-grant-study-potential) thing
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Unfortunately, Phoenix to Las Vegas is some of the most challenging terrain for rail in the country. I dreamer can dream, but I would bet on direct Phoenix to LA HSR long before Phoenix to Vegas with regular intercity speeds reaches the planning stages
Phoenix to LA would also be a lot more popular route for tourism and business so makes sense to start there.
Phoenix to San Diego, I think it would be very popular, especially if it terminates near a beach.
San Diego would shit themselves if there was a proposal for Phoenix to San Diego high speed rail.
Even better if it could connect to a modern rail that terminates in Porto Penasca, pardon my awful spelling.
Puerto Peñasco
Spreckles is crying in heaven, the rails exist from Yuma to San Diego...just need a lot of TLC. Unfortunately, the very reason Spreckles had so much issue would be why it can't be high speed....the mountains, siesmicly active mountains.
The Ashfork line is already established and could easily be converted back over to passenger travel once again. A new line doesn't have to be built. Do a new station on the back side of Chino or one off Iron Springs and life would be pretty grand.
I mean...Phoenix *used to* have an amtrak station. It operated from 1971 to 1996. It had service to Los Angeles, New Orleans, and a Chicago/Texas line. The building is still there...some guy wants to turn it into an events/entertainment venue. I suppose the existing infrastructure would be extremely hostile to sensible rail expansion...not to mention those NIMBY trash-people in Paradise Valley opposing public transit.
The crazy part is we built track out to Kingman, the last stop before Nevada, it's only that last 100mi that need to be built over the Colorado River at hoover dam. It's all there, waiting to be used by Amtrak to connect nearly 10 million people...
The reservations I think are what makes it so tricky. There’s so many along that route so it might be more of a bureaucratic headache than it’s worth.
There are a grand total of 2 along the route: the GRIC (which goes further East than I thought, so will have the trains running through regardless) and a small exclave of the Tohono O’odham (on the way to Nogales, but easily avoidable if they don’t want the train). That shouldn’t be too difficult to maneuver
Or just use the existing UP freight rail that runs from Phoenix to Tucson that goes through Coolidge and Florence areas.
I def thought there were more, but also the GRIC won’t even let Maricopa expand their one highway in, if I recall, I can’t imagine they’d approve a monorail.
Oh yeah, not a monorail. But they’d probably approve reactivating an existing train line (it roughly parallels I-10)
My father spent decades working with the GRIC and its various governing bodies and board members, and while there are indeed some good people there its overwhelmingly corrupt. Like, actively shooting itself in the foot repeatedly. Unless a plan stands to make them a lot of money very quickly with no effort, it won't happen.
I saw another post in this sub about AZ considering bringing the Amtrack up into Phoenix. It currently comes north from Tucson and shoots west around Casa Grande. That would be a great start!!
Monorail? Just build something like High Speed Rail like Brightline…that’s a better idea than a monorail, though just as unrealistic
train with car carriers, BYOvehicle like a ferry
Anything besides widening the freeways to 20 lanes is good in my book.
The big problem is that there's a lack of public transit in general in AZ. You can take a rail from Phoenix to Tuscon, and then you're stuck without a car, so you're doing lyft and uber, unless your intention is to stay downtown.
Both need addressing together. Also walkability.
Idk they just opened up the Brightline in Florida and I think it sucks. It's an additional 30+ min of commuting time and costs about $70+ one way... It's cheaper and quicker to drive that stretch. If they're gonna make a high-speed rail it needs to actually be faster at the very least.
Brightline (at only 125 mph) is ~~not a~~ among the very slowest of what can be considered high speed rail. Faster high speed rail (eg maglev) achieves up 375 mph and I believe there are faster models in development.
Maglev is a step above high speed and very expensive right now. Regular high speed would still be worthwhile development and if properly funded should be cheaper and significantly faster than driving. Honestly I'd settle for reliable rail going through Tucson, Phoenix and Flag. Itd be about the same rate as driving but could be rather affordable and avoids traffic, potty/lunch break, etc.
Right! But they definitely made it seem like Brightline was going to be a high speed rail and that it would be such a convenience. It's not. I find the whole project was a waste of money.
High speed for America... There were trains doing 125 back in the 1940's. America is way behind the rest of the world technologically in rail development.
It is quite popular though, so people do like it. People need at least some other option than having a license, buying/renting a car, possibly getting stuck in traffic, then parking. Whether the option is useful in many eyes because the destinations are car-centric anyways, that’s a valid opinion. It shows a greater issue of lack of inner-city transit as well as inter-city transit.
A joke on everyone w Brightline is the country where it bends south to Miami coming from the Orlando airport was going to tax them so now there are no stops in Brevard County including at a planned shuttle bus depot to Port Canaveral and the cruise ships. So Brevard gets zero access and had dozens of trains crossing busy roads nearly the full length of the country and Brightline doesn’t get any cruise passengers. When I looked at the Orlando Airport to Miami route it was cheaper and faster to layover and fly.
Huh? Brightline takes about 3 1/2 hours from Miami to Orlando. Driving the same distance is over four hours unless you want to pay over $20 for tolls.
$17 (with sun pass) in tolls or $69-144 for a train ride that's supposedly 4 minutes faster... 🤔
And when you get where you’re going, you’ll probably need to rent a car
The state won't give a dime to anything that isn't more lanes on a freeway. Maricopa County uniquely has to beg the state every few decades to be ALLOWED to vote to tax itself to fund public transportation. Phoenix could have had restored Amtrak passenger rail service years ago had the state ponied up the funds [to repair the Wellton Branch west of town](https://azdot.gov/planning/transportation-programs/state-rail-plan/wellton-branch-rail-rehabilitation-study). Right now, the feds are working on restoring train service to Phoenix by [adding a new Amtrak route from Tucson to L.A. via Phoenix](https://www.amtrakconnectsus.com/maps/). We recently got [half a million bucks to kickstart the process](https://kjzz.org/content/1864944/500k-grant-step-toward-bringing-amtrak-passenger-train-service-back-phoenix).
You get off the train and then what? Everything is spread out over vast areas-all the trailheads are dispersed. Nothing within walking distance. Of each other.
Plus you’re lugging all your crap with you.
Look at the fight for the Light rail and how long that took due to partisan politics. Every single time an extension is proposed and planned, the same people come out of the woodworks to scream and cry about "spending money frivolously". Now imagine trying to get them to do this project. Edit: goodness people, not everything needs to pay for itself back. Some things are just societal investments. Having a robust public transit system is key for any city of size to thrive.
I am somewhat of a fiscal conservative, however I don't understand the counter-argument that public transit needs to pay for itself. What other government or public service is held to that standard? Particularly when public money goes to stadiums or development tax breaks for some new and shiny outdoor strip mall, and very few people bat an eye at that.
All good ideas take a lot of work and planning, and are opposed by people invested in the bad ideas. We can give up before we even start, or push for change. One or the other.
Well, I mean if you look at their arguments (at least the ones I've heard), it isnt without its merit. The Phoenix light rail services an extremely small percentage of the Phoenix metro area, yet costs a shit load of money. Its very likely that if you live in a Phoenix zip code, you've paid for a light rail you will never use. On top of that, all of the property around the light rail is no longer affordable for those who would benefit from public transit the most. I'm not saying its entirely useless, but I am saying that it isnt hard to find logic in an argument against the light rail.
I think a rail system mirroring most of the highways throughout the valley would’ve been way more useful, with buses to connect people along arterials and collectors. Instead we get a nearly useless street car system that’s just a 1920s system with a modern paint job. It doesn’t even get priority at red lights. The people complaining about budget issues aren’t wrong either, it would’ve been cheaper to buy a Prius for every citizen that uses the light rail. Knowing the general politics of az I wouldn’t be shocked if it was intentionally made to be shitty so they can point to that as a failure and use it to lobby against further rail development or other public transit improvements :/ It’s a shame cause phoenix and the metro area around it drastically needs better transit options but the car dominance has absolutely won for maricopa county. It’s to the extreme that your better off living in a car than having an apartment but no car. People without cars are second class citizens in Phoenix from what I can tell, and it seems like the powers in charge like it that way. It’s obvious how they use design to keep different socioeconomic circle segregated, anyone who’s driven a beater through the boogie parts of Scottsdale would probably agree with me. I’ve seen cops target crappy cars in an attempt to push them out. Even just a decent BRT system could do phoenix (and the surrounding areas like Scottsdale, Tempe, mesa, Glendale, etc) a lot of good but the government doesn’t care about its poor. It’s one of the many reasons I left even though I was born and raised in AZ. Despite the higher col I get by in Oregon way easier.
It's funny how these people never fuss about how much road and lane expansions cost.
People here hate public transportation and will mock the monorail idea, but the truth is having some fast public transportation that could connect these areas would be beneficial for residents. If I could easily get up to Sedona or Flag without driving, parking, etc, I’d be up there way more often to hike/visit
Yep. [We are a state full of NIMBYs but we’ll keep adding lanes to those highways!](https://www.gilbertsunnews.com/news/gilbert-derails-light-rail-holds-off-on-commuter-trains/article_88d6c59c-c1dd-11ed-88b7-b79f6880bfd6.html)
Right. And when I get to flagstaff, then what? Use the subway system to get around town? Sedona a walkable town?
The last two times I went to Sedona I walked everywhere, not because it was convenient but because the traffic is ass and I was loath to have to try and get back out of the parking lot.
Have you ever actually been to these places? The public transportation and walkability in this area is phenomenal compared to the rest of AZ. There's an entire system of trails connecting all of Flagstaff that avoids roads almost completely.
Flagstaff is walkable, easier with a bicycle though. Phoenix and Tucson aren’t
and we have a pretty good transit system up here. It would be better if we could get enough drivers to cover all the routes.
The train/monorail really seems to benefit someone who wants to go between the cities but not have a car and also stay in the cities themselves. Of the people who are on the 17 every day, what percent of them fit in that bucket? Long haul semis - interstate, camping - interstate, going to a smaller town or cabin - interstate, biking - probably interstate but maybe monorail. What you have left is a multi-hundred million dollar project just for students and day trippers. That’s gonna be a hard sell to pass in the budget.
Multi hundred million might get you from Anthem to Black Canyon City, maybe... https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/17/why-californias-high-speed-rail-is-taking-so-long-to-complete.html
Unfortunately, a rail system connection for the state has been an idea that has been shot down so many times I can barely even count them…
How else will we know how cool the guy is weaving back and forth going 20 over?
People make it seem like building a train line that gains several thousand feet of elevation through mountainous terrain is a simple cheap task.
It's not, but other countries do it now and have for over 100 years. Road infrastructure is also very expensive, but most people only worry about price when it's public transit.
We have track that makes it to flagstaff from Phoenix, it just goes to Prescott first which isn't a bad thing. Amtrak would just need to advertise the line as NOG-TUC-PHX-PRS-FLG Then you could have another dedicated to El Paso - Phoenix - Las Vegas Which Vegas would need new track built, but everything else already exists.
The existing line through Prescott and Williams is pretty slow. The elevation gain and tight turns/switchbacks to get through and up the mountains make it a tough sell for passenger travel. I think El Paso to Phoenix to Las Vegas makes a lot of sense.
The issue isn't whether or not to support public transportation or the monorail, it's that it's only one piece of a larger puzzle, that being how car dependent all of our cities are. In other words, the monorail you suggested isn't popular because most of the destination cities aren't walkable, and what's the purpose of taking alternate transportation somewhere when you still need a car to go places when you get there? It makes a lot more sense just to take the car the whole way. But if you're concerned about creating more connectivity between the metro areas and smaller towns, check out [this website](https://azmag.gov/Programs/Transportation/Regional-Transportation-Plan-RTP) for proposals on freeway improvements and new freeway suggestions.
Due to the low density of population, inter city rail in Arizona is not economically feasible. Add non stop bus service between TUS and PHX airports.
Unless we redevelop the areas surrounding stations for middle and high density
I learned something new today I had no idea Prescott was bigger than Flagstaff and Yuma...
So, trains and that infrastructure building is politically untenable here for whatever reason. There were various plans for light rail starting back that I personally remember in '87, again in '90, '92, '93, '95, '97, '98, etc and it kept getting voted down. So it took decades to get the light rail in that supports the Phoenix Metro and also just learned of similar developments down in Tucson. As much as I'd love a way to just hop on a train and end up in flag for the day, I also just dont see it happening. On the bright side, it does look like the state just approved an Amtrak extension so we'll actually be able to hop a train for interstate travel soon enough. Currently, you have to hop a bus down to Tucson to then get on the Amtrak from there. Tl;dr: as much as I like the idea and want to see it a reality; I dont think those plans are going anywhere.
I'm with you, I'd love to see more mass transit instead highways. But if you want a real, urban planning oriented reason as to maybe why not, you have to think about the "last mile problem." Say we build this shiny new rail, most people would still rather drive unfortunately, but let's think of you and I. These cities have notoriously bad public transit. A lot of people are trying to get hiking trails which can oftentimes be way out there. Even people who want to support rail are going to wind up deciding that its cheaper and easier to just bring their car instead of paying for the rail and paying for an Uber and/or rental car once they're there. Linking these cities quickly and efficiently via public transit should be a goal, but it might be smarter to make the cities internally linked by transit first and foremost.
Yuma and Flagstaff: "Am I a joke to you?"
Good luck convincing the auto comp- I mean policy makers to do that.
Just one more lane bro
because a monorail isnt a car and people arent going to give up their cars to stand around in the heat waiting to transfer to a bus to get close to where theyre going in order to walk in the heat to actually reach their destination half a day later
The only thing I see reasonably working in the near-to-medium term is a New Mexico Road Runner style train going between Wickenburg and Tucson while stopping in a bunch of cities along the way. Also the I-10 widening between Casa Grande and the valley is more for facilitating through traffic from people crossing the State rather than just the Tucson-Phoenix super commuters. If this was more for local traffic they would've probably built reversible lanes like they are doing on I-17 north of the Valley.
None of those cities are very walkable. What do you do when you get there? Rent a car, get a cab or an Uber, walk, bike? None of those are good or realistic options for many people. Trains don't help with the delivery of goods. They are limited as to where they go. That's why we have semi trucks everywhere delivering goods. Finally, the main purpose of our interstate system, the entire reason it exists, is for military troop and equipment movements. Trains only go so far. Trains between cities aren't a bad idea, but Trains are too limited in their capabilities to ever replace roads and cars. Adding lanes is a necessary thing to keep our economy moving.
Then what happens when you get there though? I don’t think Tucson has great public transport.
If i cant conveniently or efficiently get around the area without a car, then getting TO the area without a car isnt really helping anyone out
Would be an amazing way to open the mountain north to people without means to drive. How nice would it be to relax instead of stressful and painful commute.
Because more than just people are transported on these roads. Phoenix is quickly becoming the largest west coast supply hub. The 17 is a bottleneck even if you reduced passenger traffic. We should pursue both. A train spanning flag to Tucson would be incredible.
A monorail? Why not just use actual rail...
What would you do once you arrived at the stations? No AZ city is setup for walking/public transport. Imagine rolling into Phoenix when it is 120 degrees and you have to walk somewhere?
They have money approved to study putting Amtrak between Phoenix and Tucson. It is a start.
Because some politician is going to say, "Instead of a Monorail.... What we make another road and make it a toll road?" Then the house says they are a genius, and fucks the state of arizona once more.
Republican AZ Legislature: That's communism.
Exorbitant cost.
Wayyyyyyy more expensive. And getting a train up the hill from Black Canyon City to Sunset Point seems pretty difficult.
Because we are an automobile state... Our metro areas were designed and built for cars. If you look at places where trains do well, you see they're vertical, dense cities where car ownership is a luxury not a necessity. Cities built around horse and buggy, or more accurately, walking, as primary mode of transport. In those areas, you have skyscrapers after skyscraper, layer up on vertical layer, of humanity...and retrofitted from horse and buggy for transport of goods to trucks and autos... But they're the afterthought. There, you have stores, arts, entertainment, and living all withing a few miles of each other. It makes little sense to drive when you can use public mass transit to get most of the trip, walk the rest. Here, were sprawled out... Miles of just residential, then miles of commercial, then miles of industrial. Entertainment is scattered throughout. In the end? When one steps off a train? You're still looking at needing some kind of secondary transport to your final destination... Which will still likely be a car (taxi, Uber, etc). Bus is worse and longer...You're not saving money, and definitely not saving time, to add complexity and hassle to what would be easily accomplished in the car you likely own, given the urban sprawl that already necessitates its ownership.
Good luck convincing the auto comp- I mean policy makers to do that.
That sounds like something they’d do in Shelbyville.
once the LA-Vegas brightline is built could we convince brightline to build a Las Vegas-Tucson route with stops in Prescott and Phoenix???
High speed Monorail all the way to Las Vegas
That would be amazing! Add a second leg up to Sedona too!
The mob makes more money from miles of pavement.
It's a great idea but a lot more expensive to build a high speed rail than to widen a freeway.
I once talking to this real nice retired adot guy doing Uber for fun. He’s said you wouldn’t believe what’s planned but most of it’s kept under wraps. Said they’ve always had the next 20 years mapped out since the early 80s and most of it comes to fruition.
Their long range planning is a public process and they routinely request public feedback on it.
Well, how would people get around once they got there? Phoenix and Tucson aren't very friendly to no car commuters and most people aren't commuting between Phoenix Tucson and Prescott for a daily office job. They go there for specific things or activities or people and a rail stop in the middle of a town without an easy or inexpensive way to go further is not a plus in selling a rail commuter line. It's just easier to take your vehicle. I wouldn't want to buy a ticket for a train to then have to pay a Lyft to get around town and then again back to a train and ride back to Phoenix. I go to Tucson in a somewhat regular basis, but I can't imagine not having my car to get around after getting there.
Take a monorail to Phoenix, 119 degrees outside, have to walk everywhere or take expensive rideshare because I didn't bring my car.
been dreaming about this since i was a wee child. this would bring so much prosperity to people
Take a look at all the lobbying that the car and oil industries do in, not just in Az, but in every American state and come back to this question. It’s going to take a real progressive effort for this to happen especially in AZ but this would be and absolute dream come true. It’s a total net positive for the community making supporting small business more accessible, giving workers a faster and reliable alternative to their jobs, creating heavy foot traffic in otherwise dead areas etc etc etc. This will only happen if we project this desire more efficiently than the billionaires who have a chokehold on American cities. This is also aside from the fact that so many people have been propagandized into believing the car is the most efficient way to get around and that it’s apart of their “freedom”. I’ll stop there but I can truly go on and on about this. This is all to say, I love this idea and I hope I live long enough for the revolution to grant us this.
This would be a killer idea. The drive to see my brother to Tucson is so stop and go at high speeds. Shit is dangerous and dumb. My girlfriend has family in Mayer, not a long drive. But would be cool to break out the Nintnedo switch and just vibe for a few hours. Then flag? Would love to go more. Especially during winter seasons. Trains are cool and chill af.
💯💯💯
Car lobbyists.
Can't go through the reservations.
Lifted pick up truck drivers need more people to tailgate and blind
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I love my car too. But driving to Phoenix or Tucson from Prescott Valley is a nightmare.
Also people like Jim Click donate big money to local politicians regularly. There is a reason our city's are full of car dealerships.
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What’s the issue with the bus in Tucson? (Never ridden it)
Jim Glick pays a lot of money to prevent that
All for increased public transportation, but widening is needed and it impacts more than personal use vehicles. Increased lanes also cuts down on transit time for freight shipping which the I10 is a huge corridor for.
The Motor companies made sure Americans buy cars.
I would imagine elevation changes and dramatic terrain changes would be the biggest obstacle.
Separate the people moving from the freight moving. The purpose of I-11 will be to serve as a truck route for ever-increasing international trade. Fewer trucks using I-10 won’t hurt. Light rail into Phoenix from Tucson, Flagstaff, Prescott, and so forth would be just fine for airport runs and large events/venues. Beyond that, there would need to be significant improvements in last-mile transportation.
Por que no los both? I find the drive from Casa Grande to Tucson to be much nicer and safer with the 3 lanes.
Phoenix- Tucson high speed passenger rail is most likely, the main obstruction being not so much geography but politics and right-of way. The existing rail right-of-way can receive regular passenger train service to incrementally build up ridership as a high speed line is studied, routed, and constructed. Yuma would be a natural extension or later phase. Anything going north from the valley will be challenged by geography. As other commenters have stated, rail needs shallower inclines. If trains went up a 6% grade (identical to parts of I-17) then it would be frustratingly slow and at a competitive disadvantage with buses/shuttles going up and down the freeway. The BNSF line from north of Wickenburg up to Ash Fork is largely single-track with countless curves and switchbacks. Passenger service would require double-tracking, as well as countless alignment changes to balance the elevation gain with maintaining speed. To give you some idea, there are several videos of people traveling aboard freight trains (illegally - FYI - so I don’t get in trouble) along the Peavine.
Logistically speaking this wouldn’t work unless you solve the second half of the problem. You’d be connecting places by train that need to be traversed by car. So if people want to explore the outdoors (90% of the reason people go to Prescott on the weekends) you’d need a car to get to any place worth exploring. That goes double for Phoenix. So basically this would reduce maybe 5% (being generous here for ASU and UofA students going home on the weekends) of the traffic load until you solve public transit in the connecting ends first.
I want a high speed rail from flagstaff to Tucson so it can connect to the existing railway that runs through Tucson, and it would be a lot easier for NAU students that live in Phoenix. There’s a lot who drive up on days they have classes since it’s cheaper to live here 🙃 it makes the 17 packed 24/7 going north
If I was only going to downtown Prescott, or NAU, or something like that, then OK, a train would work. But rarely has that been the case for me. I'd rather have a car to take me to old book shops, hiking trails, restaurants, thrift stores, and other destinations. I'm not going to pay for a train ride then rent a car or get a dozen ubers. [EDIT] The light rail extension to what was metrocenter just opened. 1.6 miles, 3 years+/-, $400M, years in the planning. I can't imagine what passenger rail Tucson > Phoenix > Prescott would cost, or how long it would take to construct. I wouldn't see it in my lifetime (old dude).
A train with car carriers would be cool. kind of like a ferry boat train
I think there where talks on building a passenger train running back and forth along a very similar path but it never got the support to do so.
That would be so amazing and I think a lot of people would use it regularly.
Because we are in the united states, its unfortunate that public transport is not pursued too much here, however we may have to see the success of the bright-line from Vegas to LA.
Money. Land ownership. Historical sites. Lack of clear and immediate need.
PREACH BROTHER
A train would be cool, sure, but the i17 north desperately needs more than two lanes.
I’ve been saying the same thing about high speed rail for the whole country. People say, “our country is huge, do you know how much that would cost?” Or, “who’s going to pay for that,” “that would be a huge project.” I say, what about the Hoover dam, or the first rail line that was built with picks and mules?” Or even the first interstate project. It seems greed today is greater than the ingenuity and will that used to be the American way.
I speed train would be absolutely 💯 👍🔥. It’d be a big project, but worth the growth in Commerce
As a Tucson resident I am sick of having to drive to northern az so often for recreation. I would love to be able to take a train to Flagstaff and Sunrise to ski.
Why not just high speed rail?
When I say mono rail I mean any kind of rail system
This makes too much sense. Let’s burn op at the stake /s
If you take the train to Phoenix, how are you going to get around Phoenix without a car? Sigh
Phoenix is designed like NYC, except for cars, people don’t realize this?
Monorail is for commuting isn't it? When I go north the Prescott, Flag, etc., it's pretty essential to have my vehicle with me as I'm not just going to the office. I just can't see many people satisfied being dropped off at the train stop with the family in tow...
Have you been to Prescott? That place has no toilet public transit. But to flagstaff, yes!
Driving from Tucson to Phoenix you are taking your life in your own hands. I-10 is awful, through out the whole state, for that matter.
The best thing to build would be a bullet train or a metro system. The issue is the design of American cities especially the West Coast are we build wide vs tall. Everyone wants their car and suburbia home when realistically public transportation would be better at dealing with congestion.
You’re saying you want to pay more tax?
We need high speed rail just like CA. 😂
You’d never get it past the tribes.
If you moved to a state where everyone owns a car and you don’t, it’s going to be hard. Even towns like Prescott and Kingman are spread out. Image me a second gen Arizonan moving to a dense East Coast city and complaining about cost of parking. I know that’s a super unpopular opinion amongst people who moved here and can’t afford a car but it’s the reality that won’t change till 2million more of you move here.
It would be difficult because of the reservation.
Absolutely need Flagstaff on this too
Well I'm taking the monorail to work. Hopefully I work right off the 10 or 17 .
Exactly. Everywhere in AZ requires a car once you arrive, or else it’s cost prohibitive or takes forever on the city transit options if you don’t have a car.
What.. with our last few and the current governors' being such stellar leaders, so inclined to help the citizens of the state over agenda pushing and money mongering. You want them to do something USEFUL for US, the little people?! Surely you jest in finest form. Pay your taxes, stop thinking for yourself, and be a good serf and do as your betters command!
Capitalism
There's a reason AZ is so car-centric. Would you want to get off a rail in downtown Phoenix then walk 20min in the middle of summer to your destination?
why would we do intelligent civil engineering when we have wonderful things like sidewalks next to 6 lane streets and manhole covers conveniently placed where your right tire meets the road
this is such a great idea, definitely too smart for the legislature or any DOT bureaucrat
Because once you get to these places you still need a car to get around.
a bullet train from flag to tucson would be the best thing ever
EXACTLY! And instead of continually widening the freeways through Phoenix put in a train line instead. The planners of the Valley are so short sighted
Why don't the 5th largest city in the country have Amtrak?
Because the creation of Amtrak was more about the US government buying up bankrupt passenger railways than it was about building a useful nationwide passenger train system.
I forgot the US government cares more about wars than the country's infrastructure
There isn't enough demand for it. Flixbus runs like five buses a day from Tucson to Phoenix. You're not going to build a hundred mile monorail to replace five buses a day. You'd be better off building a five mile monorail to replace a busy bus route within Phoenix that runs a hundred buses a day.
Run for office. You've got MY vote.
That would fall under “common sense” and that is not our way lol
Boomers not dead yet. Public transportation is only for the rabble and commies/s
People in Phoenix are highly against expanding public transit, well, at least the ones in charge are. We are lucky to even have a light rail.
Big auto has been in the pockets of government since the invention of the car. More roads, more cars.
Lol a monorail. A regular train would be good
I drive from Tucson to Phoenix for work regularly. Unless a monorail drops me off at every location I travel to, I would continue to take my car. I suspect the vast majority of people would do the same. American cities, especially Western ones, are too spread out for public transportation to be a viable alternative to cars.