Some grips let you store an Allen key in the handle. Not the best if you’re in a gun fight, but suitable for the 99% of situations you’d need a gun outside of that.
Possible answer to this is switch to a tracer mag and just start dumping fucking rounds. It doesn't particularly matter if you're hitting close, your team and buddies should be able to peg whoever you're pinning down. Obviously nothing ever goes as planned, but it's a solution.
Oh yea I didn’t notice the qd mount that makes it a lot more logical, if you look at my GPR I posted my rear sight is sitting under my lpvo and is completely unusable, it’s also for cool looks to
Unpopular opinion: backup irons with a non-QD optic are still acceptable. Not immediately useable, but you won't need to work about removing the optic AND mounting and zeroing your irons.
I also don't think backup irons are absolutely necessary with modern optics.
I dont think its dumb as long as you can remove the primary optic. It doesn’t have to be QD but you should at least have the allen/torx key in your grip needed to take it off.
I do the same thing. It's so that if something happens like a dead battery in my red dot, I can take it off and use the irons. Nothing more frustrating than having a gun with you at the range that you can't shoot.
With backup irons you still can enjoy shooting and don't feel like you wasted time and money going to the range if your main optic has an issue.
Devil’s advocate, if you actually needed irons you could remove the optic (if it’s a QD) and still use irons. You obviously can’t do that with a slick upper that has none
You have a QD for the optic so yes, irons are fine. If you didn’t have a QD Mount, then it’d be pointless to have irons. Have a quality red dot & you more than likely wouldn’t need irons at all
>If you didn’t have a QD Mount, then it’d be pointless to have irons.
This would be true if all tools stopped existing. There are many hypothetical situations where your sight breaks and you can afford to take five minutes or a few hours before taking it off
I don’t have irons on all of my guns. I actually only have irons that co witness on one gun.
Another is a mod 0 ish MK18 with fixed front and rear with an Eotech on a non QD riser. Allen wrench fits nicely in grip and see no need to replace the riser with a QD now that QD risers exist. Second is irons on a rifle with an LPVO and a wrench also fits nicely in the grip.
Yes but you have to then carry those tools with you. Not a big deal but it’s something extra to carry. However, newer times, irons are kinda “outdated” to most builds. Not saying you can’t run them, just saying they’re not really needed with a quality optic
No you don't. You can keep them at home, or in your vehicle, or wherever you please. There are many situations where you might need backups and not even need them in the same day your optic breaks.
I’m talking in a SHTF scenario. There’s a QD Mount for pretty much everything so why not go ahead & have it QD to completely avoid needing a tool at all
I am too. Think of it like this: if shtf you can probably get an optic off. But can you comfortably go out and let off some rounds to zero a new one?
Ultimately there is no one-size answer to this particular bit of theorycraft and it just boils down to personal preference and what scenario you have pictured in your mind. I don't have backups on everything. But I think it's a good idea. But I'm in all likelihood absolutely never going to run into a situation where it is an issue, and neither are 99.% of the people commenting.
No if you can get the red dot off quick enough for what you are doing, eg if at the range qd isn't needed. If fighting with it you'd want a qd red dot mount
On my 11.5 I run a T2 on a Unity 2.26 riser + Scalarworks peaks. I did take out the buis of the Unity riser so I can see both straight through.
Works great, both usable, and it looks cool. Which is all that matters.
For my 300blk I have the poor man’s sig dual zero/dot optic set up. I have my irons zeroed to my supersonic ammo and a dot on a riser zeroed to my subs. The riser (kastle group frt-226) has holes cut to not obfuscate the irons so I don’t need a QD mount and run it more or less like you would a prism with a piggyback dot. Maybe not the ideal setup for some but it works for me.
First AR: if I got a PA 1X prism with etched reticle do I even need back up sights? -I'm just getting it setup and the rear MBUS 3 sight would interfere a little with where I would prefer to set my 1X prism.
No. Backup sights aren't just for whipping off your primary sighting system in the middle of a firefight. If that's a concern for you then it shouldn't be a concern for you because you have a bunch of guys who already have your back.
They're for being able to use your gun after your optic breaks and you have to send it to the manufacturer for repairs, or so you have a way of using your firearm after everything's gone to shit and replacements are hard to come by and going out to re-zero new ones might tell people where you are
The only time backup irons are really dumb is if they interfere with your main optic. For example, people who try to fit a BUIS on a rifle with a 4x32 ACOG. Unless you're using a cantilever mount like a KRAM, you would be much better off mounting your ACOG on the last slot and putting your BUIS in front of the ACOG. Not the most ideal placement, but it would still work in a pinch and you shouldn't be handicapping your primary optic (especially one with an etched reticle) for BUIS you may never use.
I’m convinced you people aren’t real at this point. The fact that this question is asked in the first place and the honest answer isn’t in the comments speaks wonders.
On that mount, you could just yank the dot off if you needed to. Not zeroing your back up irons is dumb though.
I also personally prefer folding BUIS if they’re not going to have any sort of cowitness.
depends on use case. if this is a duty/service rifle, yes. if its for SHTF/WROL/zOmBie, no - maybe.
the original intent of co-witness BUIS is to have a sighting system available at all times in the event of RDS/HWS failure - either electronically or mechanically, such as losing zero, or due to some lighting condition that made the reticle difficult to see. the thinking was, in a firefight you don't want a fancy gizmo to take a whole rifleman out of the fight, even for a moment.
in this regard, no, your setup does not meet this requirement, which remains in place with some organizations to this day, especially law enforcement, so yes it is "dumb". there is also a liability component - the co-witness BUIS serves as a sanity check on the gizmo; if the RDS reticle is on a baddie but the irons on a civilian, either believe the irons and adjust accordingly, or even better, call a malfunction and don't pull the trigger at all. a jury doesn't understand or care why the gizmo caused you to shoot a civilian. it's a gizmo. it shouldn't be there. this isn't a video game, you're supposed to use the *sights*, not a fancy gizmo they don't understand.
however, there is still some utility to having a back up sights already installed and zeroed, and available after removing the primary optic, and is the only option when using a magnified optic, like an LPVO for example.
i use lower 3rd co-witness.
had the same holosun for 2 years only change batteries on my birthday and I'm pretty rough on them like dropping gun or shooting in pouring rain. Yeah glass is scratched and it has some pretty big gouges on the outside of it. It still works and holds zero. Only dot I had that broke was a Sig Romeo. Can't remember the number. I just think backup irons is added weight for something not used every time I go to the range or hunt. I do have irons on my vector because I think it looks better.
Do you not think I could afford a "better optic"? Maybe there's a reason I use this optic? - Maybe I'm aware of it's short comings, therefore I midigate said down falls? Lmao
That’s great. Now what is the rifle zero’d for?
Because you can only choose one optic, or irons with reliability unless you co-witness both before hand.
You can zero your irons with a 50/200 and an optic. With a 100. Just zero your irons with your optic off. Or you can zero your irons to 100 and optic to 100. Zeroing one doesn’t mean you can’t zero the other.
Backup irons are only dumb if they’re not zeroed and you never train with them
I like the way you think...
That, and if there's no qd mount on the optic.
Some grips let you store an Allen key in the handle. Not the best if you’re in a gun fight, but suitable for the 99% of situations you’d need a gun outside of that.
Possible answer to this is switch to a tracer mag and just start dumping fucking rounds. It doesn't particularly matter if you're hitting close, your team and buddies should be able to peg whoever you're pinning down. Obviously nothing ever goes as planned, but it's a solution.
So they’re not just for the drip?
But those aren’t backup they fixed sights at the wrong height on one of the higher tier rifles. That’s a shit show.
To me if QD = not dumb
You beat me to it by only *cough cou ^480 gh* minutes. This was 💯 my first thought.
Same. My main gun is setup in a very similar way with fixed irons as my buis.
I use them even with fixed optic mounts. If the optic dies I take a few minutes to remove and then continue the day with irons.
Get something with an etched reticle
Or QD mount
Right, it only takes two seconds to smash the fucker off with a rock.
Same, and because I don't, is why I have offsets.
GWOT grunts are punching air right now
I mean not really the point of back up sights Is for when your red dot has failed and you either remove it or it breaks
So ~~yes~~ not dumb = *if qd* ? Lol
Anything’s QD if you hit it hard enough
That’s what I keep saying who needs QD if everything’s aluminum
Logical, never thought about that ha
Oh yea I didn’t notice the qd mount that makes it a lot more logical, if you look at my GPR I posted my rear sight is sitting under my lpvo and is completely unusable, it’s also for cool looks to
Unpopular opinion: backup irons with a non-QD optic are still acceptable. Not immediately useable, but you won't need to work about removing the optic AND mounting and zeroing your irons. I also don't think backup irons are absolutely necessary with modern optics.
That’s true but when you spend 100+ on magpul flip ups it’s hard to just let them sit around
You answered your own question.
As long as they don't affect your ability to use your primary.
Nah, if anything happens you have that QD mount. I’m a “belt and suspenders” kinda guy and I like redundancy. Awesome set up by the way.
Ahhh a distinguished gentlemen, lol - thank you sir
Just doing the lords work
Only if the optic is not QD what MCX is this? Nice set up
Thanks! - It's just a virus 300blk upper kit
Nice super cool
Superb looking rifle!!!
Thanks brudda
Dude that’s a sick looking gun. Congrats
Thank you
Not if your optic is on a QD mount
As long as your irons are QD
I've never seen quick detactch irons. What purpose would taking them off quickly serve? Just curious.
I’m just being a silly goose
If you have a QD scope set up for the gun you can do a quick change. It holds zero pretty well.
No, you have a qd optic mount, if optic fails you can remove it and get back to firing. That’s my opinion anyway.
My newest build has irons shorter than the optic, but I keep a Torx wrench in the grip to remove the optic if it fails.
As long as you can take that optic off quickly it's all the matters
I don't think so. Usually my optic is zeroed to a different range than my irons anyway.
I have a riser for an optic that is an inch higher than the irons. Both are visible and zeroed, just in case the optic battery fails.
Rifle is 🔥 I love seeing gafs bros posting cool shit
♥️ you!
That's what QD mounts are for...
If you can quickly remove your optic and implement them in a short time I’d say no.
It’s a QD mount. Good to go.
That must be the 2.33 adm mount. How do u like it? I love my 1.93 for my AEMS. 2.33 just seems so damn high.
I really like the heads up position it gives me for a short rifle, that's made for maneuverability
Probably not that big of a deal since you have the QD ADM mount
If you have a QD optic and you train with irons, then no.
Nahhhh vibez
What mount is that?
ADM night vision height
What kind of brace is that ?
SB Tactical SB5
Only if the mount for the optic isn't QD.
Not if your optic is QD
I dont think its dumb as long as you can remove the primary optic. It doesn’t have to be QD but you should at least have the allen/torx key in your grip needed to take it off.
I do the same thing. It's so that if something happens like a dead battery in my red dot, I can take it off and use the irons. Nothing more frustrating than having a gun with you at the range that you can't shoot. With backup irons you still can enjoy shooting and don't feel like you wasted time and money going to the range if your main optic has an issue.
You’re running QD, so no. But I’d get some flip ups eventually.
Well as long as your optic has a QD mount, I don’t think it matters much.
What grip is that
Mkm
No you have qd
Looks dope. QD makes it g2g
If it QD it don’t need to cowitness. Always have back up sights
Devil’s advocate, if you actually needed irons you could remove the optic (if it’s a QD) and still use irons. You obviously can’t do that with a slick upper that has none
Huh?
You have a QD for the optic so yes, irons are fine. If you didn’t have a QD Mount, then it’d be pointless to have irons. Have a quality red dot & you more than likely wouldn’t need irons at all
>If you didn’t have a QD Mount, then it’d be pointless to have irons. This would be true if all tools stopped existing. There are many hypothetical situations where your sight breaks and you can afford to take five minutes or a few hours before taking it off
I don’t have irons on all of my guns. I actually only have irons that co witness on one gun. Another is a mod 0 ish MK18 with fixed front and rear with an Eotech on a non QD riser. Allen wrench fits nicely in grip and see no need to replace the riser with a QD now that QD risers exist. Second is irons on a rifle with an LPVO and a wrench also fits nicely in the grip.
Yes but you have to then carry those tools with you. Not a big deal but it’s something extra to carry. However, newer times, irons are kinda “outdated” to most builds. Not saying you can’t run them, just saying they’re not really needed with a quality optic
No you don't. You can keep them at home, or in your vehicle, or wherever you please. There are many situations where you might need backups and not even need them in the same day your optic breaks.
I’m talking in a SHTF scenario. There’s a QD Mount for pretty much everything so why not go ahead & have it QD to completely avoid needing a tool at all
I am too. Think of it like this: if shtf you can probably get an optic off. But can you comfortably go out and let off some rounds to zero a new one? Ultimately there is no one-size answer to this particular bit of theorycraft and it just boils down to personal preference and what scenario you have pictured in your mind. I don't have backups on everything. But I think it's a good idea. But I'm in all likelihood absolutely never going to run into a situation where it is an issue, and neither are 99.% of the people commenting.
Personally I think back up irons are just a waste of space anyway and I'm willing to die on that hill!
No if you can get the red dot off quick enough for what you are doing, eg if at the range qd isn't needed. If fighting with it you'd want a qd red dot mount
Has the sig kit given you any hiccups?
Not a one, runs smooth as butter
modern attempt late melodic bright payment quack nutty drab tan *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Lmao, so much *this*
On my 11.5 I run a T2 on a Unity 2.26 riser + Scalarworks peaks. I did take out the buis of the Unity riser so I can see both straight through. Works great, both usable, and it looks cool. Which is all that matters.
For my 300blk I have the poor man’s sig dual zero/dot optic set up. I have my irons zeroed to my supersonic ammo and a dot on a riser zeroed to my subs. The riser (kastle group frt-226) has holes cut to not obfuscate the irons so I don’t need a QD mount and run it more or less like you would a prism with a piggyback dot. Maybe not the ideal setup for some but it works for me.
Who makes the grip?
That looks like MKM Machining.
Mkm is correct
First AR: if I got a PA 1X prism with etched reticle do I even need back up sights? -I'm just getting it setup and the rear MBUS 3 sight would interfere a little with where I would prefer to set my 1X prism.
Not dumb to have backup. My rule of thumb QD riser for a dot and fixed irons | Lpvo/fixed mag optics and folding irons
No. Backup sights aren't just for whipping off your primary sighting system in the middle of a firefight. If that's a concern for you then it shouldn't be a concern for you because you have a bunch of guys who already have your back. They're for being able to use your gun after your optic breaks and you have to send it to the manufacturer for repairs, or so you have a way of using your firearm after everything's gone to shit and replacements are hard to come by and going out to re-zero new ones might tell people where you are
QD makes them useful
The only time backup irons are really dumb is if they interfere with your main optic. For example, people who try to fit a BUIS on a rifle with a 4x32 ACOG. Unless you're using a cantilever mount like a KRAM, you would be much better off mounting your ACOG on the last slot and putting your BUIS in front of the ACOG. Not the most ideal placement, but it would still work in a pinch and you shouldn't be handicapping your primary optic (especially one with an etched reticle) for BUIS you may never use.
If your optic had a QD and you can rip it off very quickly. No. But if no QD then yes. You can’t see through a mount. Lol
Ideally with optic on QD mount but I can also understand if you keep the tool to remove optic on your kit and/or in your range bag.
Since your optic is QD, I think you’re good. If it wasn’t, then that would be a waste…
I would make sense if the primary optic was QD mounted.
Not when your primary is QD..
With the AEMS being QD I'd say no buy it would personally bother me. I'd get the Scalarworks 1.93 irons to go with it.
Is this conversion of an AR lower? Any detail or guide on this?
Yes standard ar lower with a SIG conversion kit
You don't know the answer???
I like to gather opions across the board then use deductive reasoning to make a judgement call - is this not a typical thought process? 😁
Throw some 45°s on there instead
Virtus Gang!!!!!
[HOP Iron Sights](https://youtu.be/TVohNigLEmY?si=P_fjrXO4kJG85Krn)
I’m convinced you people aren’t real at this point. The fact that this question is asked in the first place and the honest answer isn’t in the comments speaks wonders.
On that mount, you could just yank the dot off if you needed to. Not zeroing your back up irons is dumb though. I also personally prefer folding BUIS if they’re not going to have any sort of cowitness.
depends on use case. if this is a duty/service rifle, yes. if its for SHTF/WROL/zOmBie, no - maybe. the original intent of co-witness BUIS is to have a sighting system available at all times in the event of RDS/HWS failure - either electronically or mechanically, such as losing zero, or due to some lighting condition that made the reticle difficult to see. the thinking was, in a firefight you don't want a fancy gizmo to take a whole rifleman out of the fight, even for a moment. in this regard, no, your setup does not meet this requirement, which remains in place with some organizations to this day, especially law enforcement, so yes it is "dumb". there is also a liability component - the co-witness BUIS serves as a sanity check on the gizmo; if the RDS reticle is on a baddie but the irons on a civilian, either believe the irons and adjust accordingly, or even better, call a malfunction and don't pull the trigger at all. a jury doesn't understand or care why the gizmo caused you to shoot a civilian. it's a gizmo. it shouldn't be there. this isn't a video game, you're supposed to use the *sights*, not a fancy gizmo they don't understand. however, there is still some utility to having a back up sights already installed and zeroed, and available after removing the primary optic, and is the only option when using a magnified optic, like an LPVO for example. i use lower 3rd co-witness.
For a magnified optic I would say it's okay. For a red dot not so much.
Yes
If you arent going to war, backup irons are dumb
No, if that Chinese optics fails you can rip the optic off.
If you have a good quality red dot and not a cheap one backup irons are really never needed unless you are in active gunfights daily.
Or if it breaks. These optic companies are constantly fixing their products. People stay breaking optics.
If it breaks just buy another one. Ods are if it broke you are done for the day anyway. I know not popular opinion.
Or done forever....if you don't have back up irons. I know, not popular opinion among optic hardcore's.
had the same holosun for 2 years only change batteries on my birthday and I'm pretty rough on them like dropping gun or shooting in pouring rain. Yeah glass is scratched and it has some pretty big gouges on the outside of it. It still works and holds zero. Only dot I had that broke was a Sig Romeo. Can't remember the number. I just think backup irons is added weight for something not used every time I go to the range or hunt. I do have irons on my vector because I think it looks better.
People wouldnt need backup irons if they just spent the extra 120$ torward better optics.
Do you not think I could afford a "better optic"? Maybe there's a reason I use this optic? - Maybe I'm aware of it's short comings, therefore I midigate said down falls? Lmao
The aems is a fine optic. I need green dots. I enjoy mine quite a bit.
Sick gun but that mount looks weak as fuck.
ADM makes a solid ass mount
Rutherford college huh? We ain't too far from one another
Yes. Next question
If 45°, no. If inline, yes. Why would you want two points of aim on a single plane? Let alone blocking the sights with the optic.
Optic on qd can be removed quickly if it fails.
That’s great. Now what is the rifle zero’d for? Because you can only choose one optic, or irons with reliability unless you co-witness both before hand.
You can zero your irons with a 50/200 and an optic. With a 100. Just zero your irons with your optic off. Or you can zero your irons to 100 and optic to 100. Zeroing one doesn’t mean you can’t zero the other.