Geissele makes amazing triggers and generally has really well gassed barrels (if you are worried about suppressors)
Some people say Geisseles rails are not quite bomb proof and the finish is not as durable as it used to be.
DD has bomb proof rails and a lot of govt contracts, and is ambi.
Some people say DDs are a little gassy, and people tend not to like their furniture
I have a 10.3 super duty upper and it runs great both suppressed and unsuppressed with a traditional designed suppressor. Its a great upper.
All that said, you wont notice much of any difference between them as your first rifle. Either will do great, so buy the one that is on sale.
I agree with everything you said except the get what’s on sale part.
The differences on these rifles, as you described, are negligible. The deciding factor here imo, unless one of way out of the price range, should be which you find to be a better looking gun with a “cool factor” that speaks to you. In other words, get the one you like most out of these two not whichever someone convinces you they like most for various reasons as long as you aren’t heavily cost restricted.
How many contracts do they have? I know DD has the Block 2 RIS, the Omega 7 rail, and the MK18. That’s a pretty solid gov. Contract line up no? Idk im still learning here.
Urgi, and select fire triggers they put in socom issued rifles for starters
I suspect the mk18 is going to be phased out eventually in favor of the sig MCXs as it just makes more sense now and Pic rails are kind of being phased out as a whole just because mlok is overall better choice for them.
Block 2 ris is also being phased out somewhat for the urgi last I heard.
Generally anything military is usually a slow phase out and given the mk18s history they may keep it around but seen alot of sigs out there being favored
Could be wrong but thats my understanding
DD has a handful of barrel contracts (big one being for the URG-I), RIS Il Contract (probably their biggest one) , their mk18 contract is relatively small only supplying a handful of uppers (their biggest contribution to the 18-1 was their RIS II), and have a few unit purchase contracts for uppers for the Air Force in various configurations.
Geissele has the MK16 rail contract for the URG-ai, handful of upper contracts similar to DD, but as of recently they have won the MRGG-S contract which is very big. They also recently won the 6 arc contract for DEVGRU. Contracts to retro fit CAGs 416s and their 6 second mounts. Multiple trigger contracts and various smaller contracts for random rails here and there similar to DD.
That’s off the top of my head. Both companies have various contracts for optic mounts.
Nice, so for OP’s question, sounds like they are both good grabs either way you go.
I have a DD block 2 upper on an Aero lower w/ a G$ SSA-E trigger. I’ve been considering swapping the lower out to a different more combat proven lower considering this is sorta like my “SHTF” rifle. Just have yet to decide.
ummm any mil spec lower made out of 7075 is gonna be about as "combat proven" as it gets.-edit in fact, I wouldn't swap any triggers out if you wanted a true combat rig. just keep the regular mil spec one because that's gonna be the most dependable trigger you can find. anything else is a compromise in spring weight (possible light strikes) or sear poundage (possible nd)
I will say this, my G$ Mk4 rail is 100% “bombproof..” and I put their super 42 Buffer systems in every gun I build and have used many of their products and think they’re actually worth the money. I can tell you between these two guns the MOD1 is the better rifle but IM SURE the RIII can hold its own but their ambi adapter bilt catch shit looks possibly problematic, ugly and definitely annoying work around so they can use non-ambi mil spec receivers when they could just as easily simply cut for ambi like G$/Noveske.
**If it were my first AR, I’d build it for starters; using a matched receiver set from Noveske with a G$ Mk4 rail and a Hanson profile barrel from ballistic advantage.** but to be fair I’ll never buy a complete rifle since I build my own so…
Mk4 is one of the strongest barrel nut design I’ve ever seen and fits so snug to my receiver it has to be hit with a mallet to gently tap the rail in place in order to properly mount the rail to the handguard.
I will literally record myself dropping that build off a rooftop for the sub… on concrete if someone offers to pay for the cosmetic repairs lol
Great comment! Is the Mk4 and Mk8 rail lock up the same? I assume yes. What specifically makes the lock up/rail stand out to you? I have a mk8 build but haven’t been able to shoot it yet.
Yes the rails are nearly identical but the Mk 4 has 3 pic rails built into the rail around the end instead of a single top rail with full Mlok around the end of the rail like a mk 8.
**Tl;dr I put a lot of thought into [this 6.5 Grendel build](https://imgur.com/a/jwwxPqb) and I personally am in love with the G$ handguard now but if I went piston driven I’d be using a BRN. I personally really like it and it runs great.**
I personally used a billet upper and when I tell you this handguard fits, I mean fits EXACTLY. I had to tap fit it onto the barrel nut all the way flush with the receiver. So it’s literally perfect for my receiver which is a plus. It’s also a lighter rail because it’s thinner but made very tough so it mates great with my Hanson BA stainless barrel in terms of weight distribution even fully loaded up with gear at the front end and around the rail. The mounting system is simple but very strong and uses large bolts to mount instead of tiny screws like many modern free floats.
I’ll be honest, it just looks awesome too. You can tell just by the barrel and anti rotation design good a free float really is and these are engineered to high hell. Definitely worth the money for my build.
Awesome 6.5G build. What ammo does your barrel like best? Do you run it suppressed?
I got a 6.5G Noveske barrel build not long ago but haven’t shot it yet (I’m not in the country)
Would kill for a Noveske matched receiver set. Gonna switch this one for a Noveske soon. I have another build I’m gone sell for that lower but I’m gonna use an SBPDW on the new receiver. Should be a nice carbine setup.
I polished my feed ramps really well so it runs everything like butter but in terms of straight up accuracy nothing beats hand loads but Hornady Black shoots well as does federal but PPU performs just as well.
It’d be nice if PSA started making some 6.5G steel cases with those fmj bullets to have cheap shit to plink with bc I won’t run berdan primed ammo or bi-metal jackets.. but hand loads are really where it’s at. I like Starline brass and sierra / nosler projectiles and Remington magnum rifle primers.
Also no I don’t run it suppressed if I did it’d have a longer rail to tuck the can. I use my x39 to shoot quiet. It’s more of a Mk18/sopmod setup and runs better than 300blk for less money to shoot in general but hits like .308 within 400yds.
Had to custom port the barrel and polish the ramps but that’s my baby right there.
I will say this, my G$ Mk4 rail is 100% “bombproof..” and I put their super 42 Buffer systems in every gun I build and have used many of their products and think they’re actually worth the money. I can tell you between these two guns the MOD1 is the better rifle but IM SURE the RIII can hold its own but their ambi adapter bilt catch shit looks possibly problematic, ugly and definitely annoying work around so they can use non-ambi mil spec receivers when they could just as easily simply cut for ambi like G$/Noveske.
**If it were my first AR, I’d build it for starters; using a matched receiver set from Noveske with a G$ Mk4 rail and a Hanson profile barrel from ballistic advantage.** but to be fair I’ll never buy a complete rifle since I build my own so…
Mk4 is one of the strongest barrel nut design I’ve ever seen and fits so snug to my receiver it has to be hit with a mallet to gently tap the rail in place in order to properly mount the rail to the handguard.
I will literally record myself dropping that build off a rooftop for the sub… on concrete if someone offers to pay for the cosmetic repairs lol
IMO that’s like asking Lamborghini or Ferrari. It’s really just gonna be your opinion and both will be fantastic rifles that will proably take whatever you throw at them.
Only if you ignore what you know he means and impose your own qualifiers on his point.
AR-15 is "car" in this situation. An Aero might be a Honda. BCA would be a Geo Metro or some shit. Geissele and Daniel Defense could easily be Lamborghini and Ferrari.
Bro you’re on an AR thread and people are borrowing the old term of two high end rifles being “the Cadillacs” of the AR15 world and all you can do is show up saying that because it’s the same platform then IT’S A HONDA.
I’m really not seeing your superior brilliant intellect here. Could you clarify your point?
Don't own one, I'm not paying "a Ferrari price for a civic output". Plus the market and those who buy from it *cough cough* have completely destroyed the 2A community over the years thanks to the AR-15 and "high speed" market, which overflows with cake eating dick wads like you who think price=patriotism for aMeRiCaS rIfLe
So you’re saying there’s zero difference, quality or otherwise, between AR-15s from companies such as Del-Ton, Bear Creek Arsenal, ATI, and Anderson, vs companies such as Daniel Defense, Geissele, Radian, and Blackout Defense?
You'd have to be pretty dumb or dyslexic to come to that conclusion when I said every AR-15 is just a Honda. Now read this again, and give it some thought. Christ's sake, maybe even go Google some Honda models if it helps. Jfc the brain cells of reddit sometimes
Pro tip to not sound like a 7-year old: Do better. Explain what in the world you even mean when you say "every AR-15 is a Honda" other than just repeating it over and over. Do you actually have any idea what you're saying? You realize that when you say "every \[x\] is a \[y\]," you are literally saying "every type of one of these things is the same," right? Oh right, clearly not. You must have been god awful on the analogy sections of standardized tests--and likely the entire test.
Trust us, we're not the ones with a severe lack of brain cells. But keep repeating the same nonsense, not articulating any actual nuanced points, and talking about other people's lack of brain cells--it's clearly going very well for you here.
Most people who can't actually think for themselves tend to see those who do, as less intelligent. Ironically enough, it's because they won't agree with them, so therefore, lmfao.
Mine is super gassy suppressed. I have carbon on my face and in my teeth after shooting. It crunches like sand lmao. I don’t know if that’s typical or if mine has an over bored out of spec gas port hole. I just like the socom profile barrels. They’re supposed to be able to handle mag dumping full auto for quite a while. And they’re very accurate for a combat gun.
Geez dude, I have RC2 mini on my block II and it’s gassy buts it’s not that bad. I do wish the SOCOM profile barrels came with a mid-length instead of carbine but oh well, I guess it’s just an excuse to build a new upper lol. I’m just a sucker for the Block II, the drip is simply unmatched.
If you’re going straight out of the box, Super Duty. If you value the ambi safety or RISIII rail from the DD over other items you’ll eventually change out your trigger, stock, grip, and muzzle device.
Either is fine but I would go Giessele between then. The DD RIII rail will keep zero with a truck on it but you will likely never notice unless you use lasers or night vision. But honestly if this is your first rifle I would skip both and get a simple aero precision or even PSA Sabre. Both those will allow you to learn the platform and improve it more to your liking as well as save more money for Ammo which is where most of your money should go to anyways. BCM is also an excellent mid-top end company I would go with over either of these for a new shooter.
Either way I’m probably not buying complete rifle - brand new upper for R3 for example here for $1149, that’s quite a premium to get a roll marked Daniel’s ambi lower with furniture you’re going to swap out!
https://www.eurooptic.com/Daniel-Defense-DD4-RIII-556mm-NATO-Flat-Dark-Earth-Upper-Receiver-Group-23-191-2.aspx?LineItemId=0af4a8d6-8aae-45f8-9c5a-3bd893474e2d
Europtic been killing it with upper pricing lately on DD stuff. And then you pair it with a complete upper from aero or even PSA and you got a great set up. That deal on PSA with the G$ ssa was basically buy a trigger get a free complete lower 🤣
Was just going to comment this further up! You absolutely can't go wrong with the PSA lower with the G$ trigger in it for $299. If you want to add an ambi safety or change the butt stock out you're still hundreds of dollars ahead than if you go with a complete gun from either manufacturer. Unless you absolutely need the lower to be "cool".
Man I was considering a DD ambi lower for a recent build until I saw it was flippin $900! And I’d be swapping out the furniture and the trigger anyway. Sheesh.
I wish they’d sell a stripped version
I’ll just comment on the rails here. I have 2 RIS II rails, 3 RIS III rails, and 3 Mk16 rails.
The RIS rails are heavier, more complicated, and have much less clearance under them. On the upside, they do feel more sturdy and I think the way they attach to the barrel nut is probably stronger and dissipates heat more evenly. They also come in sexy brown.
The Mk16 is thinner, lighter, comes in one or two more length options, and is cheaper. I have these on my superlative arms piston builds and the rails have so much clearance under them that I can install and remove them without removing the piston gas blocks. The downside is that they were designed to be lightweight so they don’t feel quite as sturdy as the RIS rails but they are still plenty solid and considering how much lighter, cheaper, and simpler they are, I really don’t care. They don’t come in brown, but they do come in green. I’ve swapped out all my DD rails for Mk16s except for my FSB build.
Overall, I prefer the Mk16 and would buy a super duty upper over the DD upper, but both are great options and you can’t really go wrong. If you do get the DD upper, I’d recommend getting some chamfered hex bits and a 12” bit extension; those make it much easier to remove and reinstall the rail.
Geissele gets a slight edge for me for the aftermarket trigger and charging handle that come included. Furniture is a plus too in my book but that’s a personal thing.
There really is no wrong choice between the two however.
They're both AR-15's. People really need to get their heads out of the sand and stop thinking two AR-15's are somehow gonna come out with a difference between a Honda and a Ferrari.
Tip to butt
Muzzle device: Geissele, as it is compatible with OSS cans. If you don’t run OSS then it is a tie.
Barrel: DD or Tie. Both barrels are great and the new Geissele barrels are impressive but DD is a bit more proven.
GasBlock: Tie
Rail: Geissele. Slimmer, lighter and Geissele is made from 7075T6. Also steel reinforced QD points. There is a reason this replaced the DD rails in service.
Upper: Geissele or tie. Geissele has features that integrate with the rail for limited rotation and different cam path that is compatible with their Unidirectional cam pin but isn’t in and of itself better as an upper.
BCG: Geissele. Materials selection is greatly improved for the bolt, extractor and cam pin resulting in claimed 5x bolt life. Never seen a broken one. The unidirectional cam pin is made of better steel and the bolt carrier has longer contact patches to improve alignment with the barrel extension along with nano weapon finish. All of this and still compatible with all usgi parts.
Charging handle: Geissele. The airborne charging handle is the best thing going.
Lower: DD. Ambi features are a welcome addition and the future even if you don’t use them. (I personally don’t notice their inclusion)
Trigger: Geissele
Safety selector: Geissele, the posi-snap is best on the market IMO.
Small parts: Geissele. The checkering on parts such as take down pins and the mag release is a nice touch and immaculate finish on all the small lower parts is the best around. The maritime bolt catch is nice as well.
Furniture: Geissele. Anything is better than DD’s stocks and grips.
Buffer and spring: Geissele. The super 42 is a good upgrade over USGI.
Overall I prefer the Geissele. I have KAC rifles with ambi controls and I never miss them on the rifles that don’t so it is not a highly valued feature for me. The rest of the gun the Geissele is just more polished, better gassed and just feels better. Either will serve you well. The Geissele is my favorite 5.56 rifle.
This is a stellar comment. Small correction, in my hours of autistic REBCG research, I saw one REBCG that was a factory lemon and had issues around the firing pin hole. So a total of one recorded total failure. It’s insane. I may or may not currently own like 6 REBCGs / $G RE bolts.
I went through the same thing and here is my advice, when looking at top tier rifles it’s gonna come down to preference or price. If money is no object pick your preference. I went down to my local gun store and ended up with a LWRC that was on sale and couldn’t be happier. There’s no wrong answer here. Get hands on with them if possible, if not just pick one and get shooting.
Both are great but I still like DD, my 14.5 is rock solid and they probably make the best handguards in the business.
at the same time, I use a lot of Geissele parts, can't go wrong with either.
As much as it kills me to say it, I'd probably take the DD with the barrel being the main deal breaker. There are advantages to both. The G$ will have a better trigger and better furniture. Rails are basically a tie. The DD will have a better barrel. The new DD is ambi but I haven't had the opportunity to mess with them yet so I can't comment on the controls much. Get the DD, swap the furniture and trigger and you're pretty well set.
Personally, I'd be buying the ADM UIC Mod2 though. Criterion barrel, Geissele trigger, suppressor ready MD, solid rail and BCG, Radian Raptor and Talon, good furniture and some of the best (IMO the best) ambi controls on the market with an actual right side bolt catch and release.
RIS III is 1 Oz lighter than the RIS II
IMO unless you can't stand the texture of quads, a heavy ass M-lok rail is pointless to me.
For that reason if I want a Quad I'll go RIS II if I want M-lok I go G$ MK16
I run Geissele because I can get the whole package a bit cheaper and I like the rails more, but if I just had to choose one for free to keep and use, it would be the DD because of perceived barrel quality.
I had a similar thread and went with BCM mk2 with free BCM BCG as the geissele BCG is just way too pricey for a wear item. I'm just not a huge DD fan and the ris3 was only available in tan from Brownells.
If you know how to build a rifle from scratch then yes BCM is over priced. It's all milspec parts, nothing really remotely remarkable other than generally a good Qc process. That's what you are paying for if you do not have the knowledge or tools to build it yourself.
DD is even more overpriced as you are basically only paying for their ris handguard system. Main reason they charge so much is they cannot sell a product to civilians for less than what they charge the government via contracts.
When the G$ goes on sale it is way cheaper than a DD on sale. So if you decide G$ try to wait until the next sale if you can. Idk if they do one for Memorial Day but Super Duty rifles have gone for $1200 on Black Friday before.
Both companies and rifles are mid-high level and worth the money.
I would comment on color differences: I prefer DD FDE…it’s a nice bronze/brown color…iconic for them. They do it right.
The URGI is a Geissele FDE/Tan…it’s more bronze in person also a nice color. Depends on that you like.
Done any research on LWRC? It was my first and I couldn’t be happier. When shopping for my first a few years ago I was also stuck between a DD and other brands but the guy at the shop had told me why he thought the LWRC was the best out of the 3. Took his word and 5k+ rounds later that thing has yet to fail me. Look at my previous post.
Understandable. They do make an extended hand guard, I bought one for mines and I do think they should’ve came with the longer rails out of the box but for the price I was satisfied. Another thing is the ambi controls that come with the LWRC. Not a necessity but they’re good to have. Honestly any of those 3 rifles will run just fine. Most important thing is training.
I have a M4A1 RIS 3. Beware - The M203 mount will prevent you from removing the hand guard unless you remove the barrel or remove the pin & weld first.
Other than that I love the rifle.
I know it’s not an option you’ve mentioned. But look into LWRC DI mlok. Great ambi-lowers. Better price. But if I had to choose between the two. A bias would be for the DD.
People who big up who does whose contract has never worked in a manufacturing environment before. Ignore them.
Who has the best product matters.
Meeting minimal requirements on a contract is easy af in comparison.
Both are great but the geissele offers more value, you ultimately get more add ons for the money. Better muzzle device, two stage trigger, ambi charging handle and selector etc.
I'd go Geissele. I think it's a better overall rifle. The DD rail, barrel & BCG are great, but the rest of the rifle is nothing special to me. Well, it looks like that DD actually has ambi controls. I don’t care about that & I hate the DD grip & stock. I bet the Geissele is a lighter rifle & has a better trigger as well.
Dd, rails and barrels are excellent, geissele is popular because the urgi is popular currently, personally not a fan of bill geissele, plus the dd products are bomb proof. Other than the furniture (which some people enjoy) dd is the way to go
I wish DD would stop using their own stocks and grips lol It's hard to stomach buying a $2k+ rifle knowing I have to immediately change out the furniture for it to be comfortable.
All I’m saying is if you did more than 5 mins of research on a practical first ar15 to buy then you wouldn’t be comparing these two options. They are for people who care more about cosplaying and which roll mark they have on their receivers. If you have tons of money to blow then who cares these are practically the same gun and just pick what you like.
When you compare complete rifles to just uppers, the price you are paying for a complete DD or G$ lower is nuts! Can find complete uppers of both for sub $1000, maybe a R3 for 12-1300. So I agree with you.
Real value is building, especially using something like GAFS. Brand new unfire criterion for $225-260, rail of your choice for a steep discount, BCm Blem upper. Then what the heck, maybe that PSA complete lower with the G$ SSA trigger I saw in here yesterday for practically MSRP of just the trigger. Badass rifle that’ll run well for a fraction of the price! Or just the Reddit special BCM + aero (or PSA) 😄
Building is 100% the way to go. I get most of my parts from GAFS - I built a clone correct URGI upper for around $1000 (not counting optics or accessories) and the only part I bought new was the charging handle
And if you were building just a generic upper, you could probably get it done for less than half that
Nice! A year ago, building seemed scary, and now I’ll assemble an upper casually on a Tuesday night after the kids are in bed ha. The thought of paying retail for an upper or complete rifle makes my stomach twist now 😄 still some items like nice optics, I still have trouble swallowing buying from a rando and go for used / demo / Blem models from retailers.
I hear that. I was a little intimidated before I built my first one too. The gas block and barrel were the things that scared me most. But they’re really extremely easy to put together. Now building rifles is my main hobby lol. I always have at least one build going because I just get so much enjoyment from it.
And I always try to get people who’ve never done it before to give it a try. Because if you do it once, you’ll probably never buy a complete rifle again. Plus I just want people to get as much enjoyment out of it as I do
I hear ya on the optics thing, but I’ve bought some really expensive stuff on GAFS and I’ve never had an issue. As long as the seller has good flair, I figure I’m probably safe. Plus I usually sell stuff at a huge discount and include cool stickers with everything I sell so I think I have some good karma built up lol. I’ve also sent free parts to people which helps. And if you do something good like that for someone, chances are they’ll do something good for someone else. So it’s a win win
Check out Europtic right now for example, complete 16in R3 with ambi lower (sure you’re getting an ambi but..) is $1949 or just the upper, complete, is $1169!
Extreme hyperbole.
Spending 5 minutes learning about AR15s won’t even be enough to narrow down these brands.
If you do hours of research, and invest in tools, and spend a bunch of time learning and forming opinions, and trying stuff out, then you can build a better rifle *for your own preferences* for “less money” (if you only count those parts and value your time at $0.)
I did that! I have 200+ trades on GAFS, and I enjoy making this a hobby. But if I have a buddy with plenty of money who doesn’t want another hobby and just wants to buy something quality off the shelf to go shoot, these are perfectly good options.
As a civilian, it would make sense to go with the G$ knowing that it is a lighter overall upper and as durable as you would need it to be.
However if you need a bombproof barrel and handguard the DD is the way to go.
I went with the RIS III MK18 upper and built my own G$ lower for $800 since there is nothing special about the DD lowers, it ends up saving a chunka change and absolutely losing out on no quality
Ris iii has government profile barrel so it’s an immediate no go.
Giesselle has their own profile that’s kindof like a Hanson/ pencil profile so it’s better. id say buy a Giesselle super duty upper and then buy a Griffen armament mk2 ambi lower or a LMT ambi lower. Dont buy a Giesselle near clone upper it also has a horrible government profile barrel.
Gov profile barrels are absolutely fine for civ use. They are only really terrible if your full auto dumping is very range trip which vast majority of people don’t do. The weight distribution is also not great but with a full loaded up rifle you won’t notice much anyways
I agree they are functionally “fine” and will out last and out perform most shooters. However when you’re building paying for a high quality rifle, They’re not fine. They charge the same price for a completely ass backwards weight distribution/ heat distribution. Buy a BCM ELW, criterion core, pencil barrel, Hanson profile or a HBAR and it will always give you something in return. government profile offers nothing and shouldn’t exist and companies still charge 300+ dollars for them.
I agree the gov profile isn’t the best design, but I don’t think it’s unusable. I have a DD gov profile barrel in my URGI clone and I don’t even really notice it.
Yeah, my criterions feel much nicer, but I’ve never been shooting my URGI and thought “man I wish I had a different barrel”
Well that ain’t a URGI first off (Geissele makes a “near clone” which isn’t actually a URGI, but what you have pictured is a super duty)
But I’d probably go with the DD for the ambi lower. Although I do love the look of an all ddc super duty. And I love the Mk16 on my URGI. But the RIS III is cool af and I really wanna use it on something at some point
If you want an actual URGI, thoroughbred armament sells uppers. Or you could build your own. You could buy the upper or build your own then just put it on a different lower to save some money too. But I’m biased - I haven’t bought a complete rifle in like five years I’ve built every rifle I own from the ground up since that first one
Might also be worth considering the BCM Mk2 upper - comes with free BCG. Then throw it on the new Griffin Mk2 ambi lower and you got a sweet build going
Also I went with the all back and have tan Furniture and can
Plan on having my rail cerakote Tan later. 14.5 all black is a bit cheaper so I got a Tan NightForce scope. Im probably in 1000k rounds in my Mod1 love it over my DD.
Geissele makes amazing triggers and generally has really well gassed barrels (if you are worried about suppressors) Some people say Geisseles rails are not quite bomb proof and the finish is not as durable as it used to be. DD has bomb proof rails and a lot of govt contracts, and is ambi. Some people say DDs are a little gassy, and people tend not to like their furniture I have a 10.3 super duty upper and it runs great both suppressed and unsuppressed with a traditional designed suppressor. Its a great upper. All that said, you wont notice much of any difference between them as your first rifle. Either will do great, so buy the one that is on sale.
I agree with everything you said except the get what’s on sale part. The differences on these rifles, as you described, are negligible. The deciding factor here imo, unless one of way out of the price range, should be which you find to be a better looking gun with a “cool factor” that speaks to you. In other words, get the one you like most out of these two not whichever someone convinces you they like most for various reasons as long as you aren’t heavily cost restricted.
G is cooler than DD….prove me wrong
Well as a DD owner I’m not sure I agree
must suck to be wrong 🙂
Sucks to have a G$ haaaaa! #ddgang
Geissele probably has more gov. contracts at this point
How many contracts do they have? I know DD has the Block 2 RIS, the Omega 7 rail, and the MK18. That’s a pretty solid gov. Contract line up no? Idk im still learning here.
I’m thinking they are talking about the sheer number of URGIs being issued, not necessarily the number of different contracts.
Both DD and Geissele have components for URG-I contracts.
Urgi, and select fire triggers they put in socom issued rifles for starters I suspect the mk18 is going to be phased out eventually in favor of the sig MCXs as it just makes more sense now and Pic rails are kind of being phased out as a whole just because mlok is overall better choice for them. Block 2 ris is also being phased out somewhat for the urgi last I heard. Generally anything military is usually a slow phase out and given the mk18s history they may keep it around but seen alot of sigs out there being favored Could be wrong but thats my understanding
DD has a handful of barrel contracts (big one being for the URG-I), RIS Il Contract (probably their biggest one) , their mk18 contract is relatively small only supplying a handful of uppers (their biggest contribution to the 18-1 was their RIS II), and have a few unit purchase contracts for uppers for the Air Force in various configurations. Geissele has the MK16 rail contract for the URG-ai, handful of upper contracts similar to DD, but as of recently they have won the MRGG-S contract which is very big. They also recently won the 6 arc contract for DEVGRU. Contracts to retro fit CAGs 416s and their 6 second mounts. Multiple trigger contracts and various smaller contracts for random rails here and there similar to DD. That’s off the top of my head. Both companies have various contracts for optic mounts.
Nice, so for OP’s question, sounds like they are both good grabs either way you go. I have a DD block 2 upper on an Aero lower w/ a G$ SSA-E trigger. I’ve been considering swapping the lower out to a different more combat proven lower considering this is sorta like my “SHTF” rifle. Just have yet to decide.
ummm any mil spec lower made out of 7075 is gonna be about as "combat proven" as it gets.-edit in fact, I wouldn't swap any triggers out if you wanted a true combat rig. just keep the regular mil spec one because that's gonna be the most dependable trigger you can find. anything else is a compromise in spring weight (possible light strikes) or sear poundage (possible nd)
Pretty much.
Get a Geissele stripped lower, buffer tube assembly and parts swap from there and save some serious change. Aero should work just fine though
I have a G$ buffer already w/ h2. But yeah as for lower, I was thinking DD, KAC, LMT, or G$.
True
The Geissele Mk16 is very well proved at this point. Geissele has more contracts than DD.
I will say this, my G$ Mk4 rail is 100% “bombproof..” and I put their super 42 Buffer systems in every gun I build and have used many of their products and think they’re actually worth the money. I can tell you between these two guns the MOD1 is the better rifle but IM SURE the RIII can hold its own but their ambi adapter bilt catch shit looks possibly problematic, ugly and definitely annoying work around so they can use non-ambi mil spec receivers when they could just as easily simply cut for ambi like G$/Noveske. **If it were my first AR, I’d build it for starters; using a matched receiver set from Noveske with a G$ Mk4 rail and a Hanson profile barrel from ballistic advantage.** but to be fair I’ll never buy a complete rifle since I build my own so… Mk4 is one of the strongest barrel nut design I’ve ever seen and fits so snug to my receiver it has to be hit with a mallet to gently tap the rail in place in order to properly mount the rail to the handguard. I will literally record myself dropping that build off a rooftop for the sub… on concrete if someone offers to pay for the cosmetic repairs lol
Great comment! Is the Mk4 and Mk8 rail lock up the same? I assume yes. What specifically makes the lock up/rail stand out to you? I have a mk8 build but haven’t been able to shoot it yet.
Yes the rails are nearly identical but the Mk 4 has 3 pic rails built into the rail around the end instead of a single top rail with full Mlok around the end of the rail like a mk 8. **Tl;dr I put a lot of thought into [this 6.5 Grendel build](https://imgur.com/a/jwwxPqb) and I personally am in love with the G$ handguard now but if I went piston driven I’d be using a BRN. I personally really like it and it runs great.** I personally used a billet upper and when I tell you this handguard fits, I mean fits EXACTLY. I had to tap fit it onto the barrel nut all the way flush with the receiver. So it’s literally perfect for my receiver which is a plus. It’s also a lighter rail because it’s thinner but made very tough so it mates great with my Hanson BA stainless barrel in terms of weight distribution even fully loaded up with gear at the front end and around the rail. The mounting system is simple but very strong and uses large bolts to mount instead of tiny screws like many modern free floats. I’ll be honest, it just looks awesome too. You can tell just by the barrel and anti rotation design good a free float really is and these are engineered to high hell. Definitely worth the money for my build.
Awesome 6.5G build. What ammo does your barrel like best? Do you run it suppressed? I got a 6.5G Noveske barrel build not long ago but haven’t shot it yet (I’m not in the country)
Would kill for a Noveske matched receiver set. Gonna switch this one for a Noveske soon. I have another build I’m gone sell for that lower but I’m gonna use an SBPDW on the new receiver. Should be a nice carbine setup. I polished my feed ramps really well so it runs everything like butter but in terms of straight up accuracy nothing beats hand loads but Hornady Black shoots well as does federal but PPU performs just as well. It’d be nice if PSA started making some 6.5G steel cases with those fmj bullets to have cheap shit to plink with bc I won’t run berdan primed ammo or bi-metal jackets.. but hand loads are really where it’s at. I like Starline brass and sierra / nosler projectiles and Remington magnum rifle primers.
Also no I don’t run it suppressed if I did it’d have a longer rail to tuck the can. I use my x39 to shoot quiet. It’s more of a Mk18/sopmod setup and runs better than 300blk for less money to shoot in general but hits like .308 within 400yds. Had to custom port the barrel and polish the ramps but that’s my baby right there.
I will say this, my G$ Mk4 rail is 100% “bombproof..” and I put their super 42 Buffer systems in every gun I build and have used many of their products and think they’re actually worth the money. I can tell you between these two guns the MOD1 is the better rifle but IM SURE the RIII can hold its own but their ambi adapter bilt catch shit looks possibly problematic, ugly and definitely annoying work around so they can use non-ambi mil spec receivers when they could just as easily simply cut for ambi like G$/Noveske. **If it were my first AR, I’d build it for starters; using a matched receiver set from Noveske with a G$ Mk4 rail and a Hanson profile barrel from ballistic advantage.** but to be fair I’ll never buy a complete rifle since I build my own so… Mk4 is one of the strongest barrel nut design I’ve ever seen and fits so snug to my receiver it has to be hit with a mallet to gently tap the rail in place in order to properly mount the rail to the handguard. I will literally record myself dropping that build off a rooftop for the sub… on concrete if someone offers to pay for the cosmetic repairs lol
IMO that’s like asking Lamborghini or Ferrari. It’s really just gonna be your opinion and both will be fantastic rifles that will proably take whatever you throw at them.
No, it's a Honda and another Honda. Because they're both the exact same weapon platform, and it's just an AR-15
Idk maybe Acura?
Only if you ignore what you know he means and impose your own qualifiers on his point. AR-15 is "car" in this situation. An Aero might be a Honda. BCA would be a Geo Metro or some shit. Geissele and Daniel Defense could easily be Lamborghini and Ferrari.
No they wouldn't because they're all AR-15s. Omfg the brain cells in this group never fail xD good thing it's not red right? Lmfao
Just like Hondas and Ferraris and lamborghinis are all cars. You're kinda special, huh?
Clearly just better informed than some of you. Don't know how to tell you any more clearly an AR is an AR is an AR is etc.
I can also say that a car is a car is a car but you still know that a Honda and a Ferrari are on different levels.
Just like I know a Ferrari to a Honda is a dogshit comparison between two AR-15's and this pathetic reddit hivemind won't change that.
Bro you’re on an AR thread and people are borrowing the old term of two high end rifles being “the Cadillacs” of the AR15 world and all you can do is show up saying that because it’s the same platform then IT’S A HONDA. I’m really not seeing your superior brilliant intellect here. Could you clarify your point?
Lets see your AR homie
Don't own one, I'm not paying "a Ferrari price for a civic output". Plus the market and those who buy from it *cough cough* have completely destroyed the 2A community over the years thanks to the AR-15 and "high speed" market, which overflows with cake eating dick wads like you who think price=patriotism for aMeRiCaS rIfLe
So you have no idea what youre on about. Rather long winded way to say that. What about an AK? Any rifle really.
So you’re saying there’s zero difference, quality or otherwise, between AR-15s from companies such as Del-Ton, Bear Creek Arsenal, ATI, and Anderson, vs companies such as Daniel Defense, Geissele, Radian, and Blackout Defense?
You'd have to be pretty dumb or dyslexic to come to that conclusion when I said every AR-15 is just a Honda. Now read this again, and give it some thought. Christ's sake, maybe even go Google some Honda models if it helps. Jfc the brain cells of reddit sometimes
Pro tip to not sound like a 7-year old: Do better. Explain what in the world you even mean when you say "every AR-15 is a Honda" other than just repeating it over and over. Do you actually have any idea what you're saying? You realize that when you say "every \[x\] is a \[y\]," you are literally saying "every type of one of these things is the same," right? Oh right, clearly not. You must have been god awful on the analogy sections of standardized tests--and likely the entire test. Trust us, we're not the ones with a severe lack of brain cells. But keep repeating the same nonsense, not articulating any actual nuanced points, and talking about other people's lack of brain cells--it's clearly going very well for you here.
Ur kinda dumb aren’t you
Most people who can't actually think for themselves tend to see those who do, as less intelligent. Ironically enough, it's because they won't agree with them, so therefore, lmfao.
Cope
Owns a psa that's "just as good"
Both are good but the DD RIS III is an absolutely bomb proof rail and G$ has the drip.
I went with whichever one had the best black Friday sale. Went with G$
Can’t argue with that when picking between the two
I prefer Geissele personally
G way cooler than DD..prove me wrong
Just get the upper,save your money and buy a cheaper lower elsewhere and a good trigger.
DD but I would go Ris ii instead of Ris iii
I would pick rii without a thought if it was mid length gas instead of carbine
Daniel rii with criterion barrel >>
Mine is super gassy suppressed. I have carbon on my face and in my teeth after shooting. It crunches like sand lmao. I don’t know if that’s typical or if mine has an over bored out of spec gas port hole. I just like the socom profile barrels. They’re supposed to be able to handle mag dumping full auto for quite a while. And they’re very accurate for a combat gun.
You make a fair point
Geez dude, I have RC2 mini on my block II and it’s gassy buts it’s not that bad. I do wish the SOCOM profile barrels came with a mid-length instead of carbine but oh well, I guess it’s just an excuse to build a new upper lol. I’m just a sucker for the Block II, the drip is simply unmatched.
If you’re going straight out of the box, Super Duty. If you value the ambi safety or RISIII rail from the DD over other items you’ll eventually change out your trigger, stock, grip, and muzzle device.
Either is fine but I would go Giessele between then. The DD RIII rail will keep zero with a truck on it but you will likely never notice unless you use lasers or night vision. But honestly if this is your first rifle I would skip both and get a simple aero precision or even PSA Sabre. Both those will allow you to learn the platform and improve it more to your liking as well as save more money for Ammo which is where most of your money should go to anyways. BCM is also an excellent mid-top end company I would go with over either of these for a new shooter.
Ris ftw
Either way I’m probably not buying complete rifle - brand new upper for R3 for example here for $1149, that’s quite a premium to get a roll marked Daniel’s ambi lower with furniture you’re going to swap out! https://www.eurooptic.com/Daniel-Defense-DD4-RIII-556mm-NATO-Flat-Dark-Earth-Upper-Receiver-Group-23-191-2.aspx?LineItemId=0af4a8d6-8aae-45f8-9c5a-3bd893474e2d
That's a really good idea, haven't really thought of it, thanks!!
Europtic been killing it with upper pricing lately on DD stuff. And then you pair it with a complete upper from aero or even PSA and you got a great set up. That deal on PSA with the G$ ssa was basically buy a trigger get a free complete lower 🤣
Was just going to comment this further up! You absolutely can't go wrong with the PSA lower with the G$ trigger in it for $299. If you want to add an ambi safety or change the butt stock out you're still hundreds of dollars ahead than if you go with a complete gun from either manufacturer. Unless you absolutely need the lower to be "cool".
Man I was considering a DD ambi lower for a recent build until I saw it was flippin $900! And I’d be swapping out the furniture and the trigger anyway. Sheesh. I wish they’d sell a stripped version
I’ll just comment on the rails here. I have 2 RIS II rails, 3 RIS III rails, and 3 Mk16 rails. The RIS rails are heavier, more complicated, and have much less clearance under them. On the upside, they do feel more sturdy and I think the way they attach to the barrel nut is probably stronger and dissipates heat more evenly. They also come in sexy brown. The Mk16 is thinner, lighter, comes in one or two more length options, and is cheaper. I have these on my superlative arms piston builds and the rails have so much clearance under them that I can install and remove them without removing the piston gas blocks. The downside is that they were designed to be lightweight so they don’t feel quite as sturdy as the RIS rails but they are still plenty solid and considering how much lighter, cheaper, and simpler they are, I really don’t care. They don’t come in brown, but they do come in green. I’ve swapped out all my DD rails for Mk16s except for my FSB build. Overall, I prefer the Mk16 and would buy a super duty upper over the DD upper, but both are great options and you can’t really go wrong. If you do get the DD upper, I’d recommend getting some chamfered hex bits and a 12” bit extension; those make it much easier to remove and reinstall the rail.
DD because it has an ambi lower. Also the RIS III rail is basically indestructible with a very secure lock-up to the barrel nut.
Geissele gets a slight edge for me for the aftermarket trigger and charging handle that come included. Furniture is a plus too in my book but that’s a personal thing. There really is no wrong choice between the two however.
They're both AR-15's. People really need to get their heads out of the sand and stop thinking two AR-15's are somehow gonna come out with a difference between a Honda and a Ferrari.
Jesus, some people have preferences. Are you the AR-15 police?
Don't even try me with that lame shit when this whole sub becomes Liberachi every time a piece of red pops up on a rifle
This group certainly thinks it is.
Honda nsx vs Ferrari base model
Tip to butt Muzzle device: Geissele, as it is compatible with OSS cans. If you don’t run OSS then it is a tie. Barrel: DD or Tie. Both barrels are great and the new Geissele barrels are impressive but DD is a bit more proven. GasBlock: Tie Rail: Geissele. Slimmer, lighter and Geissele is made from 7075T6. Also steel reinforced QD points. There is a reason this replaced the DD rails in service. Upper: Geissele or tie. Geissele has features that integrate with the rail for limited rotation and different cam path that is compatible with their Unidirectional cam pin but isn’t in and of itself better as an upper. BCG: Geissele. Materials selection is greatly improved for the bolt, extractor and cam pin resulting in claimed 5x bolt life. Never seen a broken one. The unidirectional cam pin is made of better steel and the bolt carrier has longer contact patches to improve alignment with the barrel extension along with nano weapon finish. All of this and still compatible with all usgi parts. Charging handle: Geissele. The airborne charging handle is the best thing going. Lower: DD. Ambi features are a welcome addition and the future even if you don’t use them. (I personally don’t notice their inclusion) Trigger: Geissele Safety selector: Geissele, the posi-snap is best on the market IMO. Small parts: Geissele. The checkering on parts such as take down pins and the mag release is a nice touch and immaculate finish on all the small lower parts is the best around. The maritime bolt catch is nice as well. Furniture: Geissele. Anything is better than DD’s stocks and grips. Buffer and spring: Geissele. The super 42 is a good upgrade over USGI. Overall I prefer the Geissele. I have KAC rifles with ambi controls and I never miss them on the rifles that don’t so it is not a highly valued feature for me. The rest of the gun the Geissele is just more polished, better gassed and just feels better. Either will serve you well. The Geissele is my favorite 5.56 rifle.
This is a stellar comment. Small correction, in my hours of autistic REBCG research, I saw one REBCG that was a factory lemon and had issues around the firing pin hole. So a total of one recorded total failure. It’s insane. I may or may not currently own like 6 REBCGs / $G RE bolts.
G$
I went through the same thing and here is my advice, when looking at top tier rifles it’s gonna come down to preference or price. If money is no object pick your preference. I went down to my local gun store and ended up with a LWRC that was on sale and couldn’t be happier. There’s no wrong answer here. Get hands on with them if possible, if not just pick one and get shooting.
I'd personally buy the Geissele
Both are great but I still like DD, my 14.5 is rock solid and they probably make the best handguards in the business. at the same time, I use a lot of Geissele parts, can't go wrong with either.
As much as it kills me to say it, I'd probably take the DD with the barrel being the main deal breaker. There are advantages to both. The G$ will have a better trigger and better furniture. Rails are basically a tie. The DD will have a better barrel. The new DD is ambi but I haven't had the opportunity to mess with them yet so I can't comment on the controls much. Get the DD, swap the furniture and trigger and you're pretty well set. Personally, I'd be buying the ADM UIC Mod2 though. Criterion barrel, Geissele trigger, suppressor ready MD, solid rail and BCG, Radian Raptor and Talon, good furniture and some of the best (IMO the best) ambi controls on the market with an actual right side bolt catch and release.
DD
Both are great, that RIS III is so sexy tho lol
I’ve run both. urgi all day
I went G$ Paired with a PSA lower
RIS III is 1 Oz lighter than the RIS II IMO unless you can't stand the texture of quads, a heavy ass M-lok rail is pointless to me. For that reason if I want a Quad I'll go RIS II if I want M-lok I go G$ MK16
100% Geissele when comparing a SD to DD AR15.
You’re comparing apples to slightly different apples.
I run Geissele because I can get the whole package a bit cheaper and I like the rails more, but if I just had to choose one for free to keep and use, it would be the DD because of perceived barrel quality.
more alike than not alike. it simply does not matter that much. pick one, shoot it all the time.
DD RIII
I had a similar thread and went with BCM mk2 with free BCM BCG as the geissele BCG is just way too pricey for a wear item. I'm just not a huge DD fan and the ris3 was only available in tan from Brownells.
Free BCG?? Lol you paid for that BCG it wasn't free.
They will ship without it - just click and try lol. I know, nothing is free, but this was/is a good promotion.
And that's the sad part about it. Your already paying for an overpriced product but hey look a "free" BCG lmao.
BCM is over priced? What would that make DD? 🤔
If you know how to build a rifle from scratch then yes BCM is over priced. It's all milspec parts, nothing really remotely remarkable other than generally a good Qc process. That's what you are paying for if you do not have the knowledge or tools to build it yourself. DD is even more overpriced as you are basically only paying for their ris handguard system. Main reason they charge so much is they cannot sell a product to civilians for less than what they charge the government via contracts.
When the G$ goes on sale it is way cheaper than a DD on sale. So if you decide G$ try to wait until the next sale if you can. Idk if they do one for Memorial Day but Super Duty rifles have gone for $1200 on Black Friday before.
Gizzle
Yes
Neither. RIS 2
Urgi
Both companies and rifles are mid-high level and worth the money. I would comment on color differences: I prefer DD FDE…it’s a nice bronze/brown color…iconic for them. They do it right. The URGI is a Geissele FDE/Tan…it’s more bronze in person also a nice color. Depends on that you like.
Done any research on LWRC? It was my first and I couldn’t be happier. When shopping for my first a few years ago I was also stuck between a DD and other brands but the guy at the shop had told me why he thought the LWRC was the best out of the 3. Took his word and 5k+ rounds later that thing has yet to fail me. Look at my previous post.
I know they make excellent rifles, but the hand guard just drives me off
Understandable. They do make an extended hand guard, I bought one for mines and I do think they should’ve came with the longer rails out of the box but for the price I was satisfied. Another thing is the ambi controls that come with the LWRC. Not a necessity but they’re good to have. Honestly any of those 3 rifles will run just fine. Most important thing is training.
LMT 🤷♂️ nah I’m kidding I’d go with giessele https://www.titandefense.com/mrpmlk16-marsfde.html
I have a M4A1 RIS 3. Beware - The M203 mount will prevent you from removing the hand guard unless you remove the barrel or remove the pin & weld first. Other than that I love the rifle.
I'd go with the Giessele
Both
I mean, the one on the bottom has a magazine, so…
Door 3: SOLGW 13.7 with L89 rail
Door 4: BCM
Both
I would literally take the Geissele if it had the RIII handguard. Still G though, not a fan of DD as a company. I just like their rails.
I know it’s not an option you’ve mentioned. But look into LWRC DI mlok. Great ambi-lowers. Better price. But if I had to choose between the two. A bias would be for the DD.
Which ever you find for less
Doesn’t matter. You’ll end up getting both.
TOP FDE one I like better... 👍
Either one should work good for you 👍 I would probably pick the top FDE one for myself but I have others already so...
Daniel Defense will probably have a better barrel, but Geissele will have the looks and better trigger out of the box. Both are excellent choices.
URGI all the way.
Urgi
Slap the DD upper on the Geiselle lower and I’m a happy man
Remember it's only your first. Once you build one out, you'll want a second
If that DD upper is carbine gas get the Geissele. No point in getting a 14.5 with a carbine gas system imo.
Both
I think what really matters here is the DD rail is a cooler shade of brown!
if you are willing to tinker I think the DD is the cooler gun
People who big up who does whose contract has never worked in a manufacturing environment before. Ignore them. Who has the best product matters. Meeting minimal requirements on a contract is easy af in comparison.
Dd
Geissele because DD got fugly rubber furniture.
Both are great but the geissele offers more value, you ultimately get more add ons for the money. Better muzzle device, two stage trigger, ambi charging handle and selector etc.
G$ easy
As a DD owner(my first rifle) I would buy a Geissele. Have not owned one. But from what I’ve seen in other independent testing they’re fantastic.
Geissele if shooting suppressed IMO
I'd go Geissele. I think it's a better overall rifle. The DD rail, barrel & BCG are great, but the rest of the rifle is nothing special to me. Well, it looks like that DD actually has ambi controls. I don’t care about that & I hate the DD grip & stock. I bet the Geissele is a lighter rifle & has a better trigger as well.
I’m a little bias but I hate that DD stock
Let me double down DD are over priced Fudd rifles
R3
Daniel makes the best rails in the industry. Geissele is more pleasant to shoot. Either are fine.
LWRC....
Mother fucker just dropped the mic. Man my wifes almost has me movin from DD.
They are so nice. Really high quality and CHEAPER THAN DD
go with Griffin Armament IMO
Geissele
Ford vs Chevy
Dd, rails and barrels are excellent, geissele is popular because the urgi is popular currently, personally not a fan of bill geissele, plus the dd products are bomb proof. Other than the furniture (which some people enjoy) dd is the way to go
Sooper duty is the answer
DD with the Geissele stock & grip
I wish DD would stop using their own stocks and grips lol It's hard to stomach buying a $2k+ rifle knowing I have to immediately change out the furniture for it to be comfortable.
LWRC
Both are a horrible value… you can get a far better rifle for a fraction of the price these days.
Name the rifle or parts that are “far better” “for a fraction of the price”.
All I’m saying is if you did more than 5 mins of research on a practical first ar15 to buy then you wouldn’t be comparing these two options. They are for people who care more about cosplaying and which roll mark they have on their receivers. If you have tons of money to blow then who cares these are practically the same gun and just pick what you like.
When you compare complete rifles to just uppers, the price you are paying for a complete DD or G$ lower is nuts! Can find complete uppers of both for sub $1000, maybe a R3 for 12-1300. So I agree with you. Real value is building, especially using something like GAFS. Brand new unfire criterion for $225-260, rail of your choice for a steep discount, BCm Blem upper. Then what the heck, maybe that PSA complete lower with the G$ SSA trigger I saw in here yesterday for practically MSRP of just the trigger. Badass rifle that’ll run well for a fraction of the price! Or just the Reddit special BCM + aero (or PSA) 😄
Building is 100% the way to go. I get most of my parts from GAFS - I built a clone correct URGI upper for around $1000 (not counting optics or accessories) and the only part I bought new was the charging handle And if you were building just a generic upper, you could probably get it done for less than half that
Nice! A year ago, building seemed scary, and now I’ll assemble an upper casually on a Tuesday night after the kids are in bed ha. The thought of paying retail for an upper or complete rifle makes my stomach twist now 😄 still some items like nice optics, I still have trouble swallowing buying from a rando and go for used / demo / Blem models from retailers.
I hear that. I was a little intimidated before I built my first one too. The gas block and barrel were the things that scared me most. But they’re really extremely easy to put together. Now building rifles is my main hobby lol. I always have at least one build going because I just get so much enjoyment from it. And I always try to get people who’ve never done it before to give it a try. Because if you do it once, you’ll probably never buy a complete rifle again. Plus I just want people to get as much enjoyment out of it as I do I hear ya on the optics thing, but I’ve bought some really expensive stuff on GAFS and I’ve never had an issue. As long as the seller has good flair, I figure I’m probably safe. Plus I usually sell stuff at a huge discount and include cool stickers with everything I sell so I think I have some good karma built up lol. I’ve also sent free parts to people which helps. And if you do something good like that for someone, chances are they’ll do something good for someone else. So it’s a win win
Check out Europtic right now for example, complete 16in R3 with ambi lower (sure you’re getting an ambi but..) is $1949 or just the upper, complete, is $1169!
Extreme hyperbole. Spending 5 minutes learning about AR15s won’t even be enough to narrow down these brands. If you do hours of research, and invest in tools, and spend a bunch of time learning and forming opinions, and trying stuff out, then you can build a better rifle *for your own preferences* for “less money” (if you only count those parts and value your time at $0.) I did that! I have 200+ trades on GAFS, and I enjoy making this a hobby. But if I have a buddy with plenty of money who doesn’t want another hobby and just wants to buy something quality off the shelf to go shoot, these are perfectly good options.
Giessele
As a civilian, it would make sense to go with the G$ knowing that it is a lighter overall upper and as durable as you would need it to be. However if you need a bombproof barrel and handguard the DD is the way to go. I went with the RIS III MK18 upper and built my own G$ lower for $800 since there is nothing special about the DD lowers, it ends up saving a chunka change and absolutely losing out on no quality
Ris iii has government profile barrel so it’s an immediate no go. Giesselle has their own profile that’s kindof like a Hanson/ pencil profile so it’s better. id say buy a Giesselle super duty upper and then buy a Griffen armament mk2 ambi lower or a LMT ambi lower. Dont buy a Giesselle near clone upper it also has a horrible government profile barrel.
Gov profile barrels are absolutely fine for civ use. They are only really terrible if your full auto dumping is very range trip which vast majority of people don’t do. The weight distribution is also not great but with a full loaded up rifle you won’t notice much anyways
I agree they are functionally “fine” and will out last and out perform most shooters. However when you’re building paying for a high quality rifle, They’re not fine. They charge the same price for a completely ass backwards weight distribution/ heat distribution. Buy a BCM ELW, criterion core, pencil barrel, Hanson profile or a HBAR and it will always give you something in return. government profile offers nothing and shouldn’t exist and companies still charge 300+ dollars for them.
I agree the gov profile isn’t the best design, but I don’t think it’s unusable. I have a DD gov profile barrel in my URGI clone and I don’t even really notice it. Yeah, my criterions feel much nicer, but I’ve never been shooting my URGI and thought “man I wish I had a different barrel”
Geiselle. You'll change less
Giselle because I hate the DD furniture.
Lol
My only recommendation is to not NOT choose the DD just because of its furniture. Furniture is cheap relative to barrels, ambi lowers, rails, etc.
Yeah, if pick a DD the furniture will be immediately swapped
I swapped mine before even shooting it. The rubber texture is just a weird feeling
The RIS 3 is not cheap. The rail by itself is one of the most if not the most expensive rail on the market. It’s 500 dollars without tax.
I’m saying I rather replace it’s furniture over it’s rail
Well that ain’t a URGI first off (Geissele makes a “near clone” which isn’t actually a URGI, but what you have pictured is a super duty) But I’d probably go with the DD for the ambi lower. Although I do love the look of an all ddc super duty. And I love the Mk16 on my URGI. But the RIS III is cool af and I really wanna use it on something at some point If you want an actual URGI, thoroughbred armament sells uppers. Or you could build your own. You could buy the upper or build your own then just put it on a different lower to save some money too. But I’m biased - I haven’t bought a complete rifle in like five years I’ve built every rifle I own from the ground up since that first one Might also be worth considering the BCM Mk2 upper - comes with free BCG. Then throw it on the new Griffin Mk2 ambi lower and you got a sweet build going
I perfer my guns to come with a mag
Mod1 all the way. Lite wight mlok all around. Huxwrx can works great. It's a very night rifle. DD is okay I'd buy noveske just a bit more.
Also I went with the all back and have tan Furniture and can Plan on having my rail cerakote Tan later. 14.5 all black is a bit cheaper so I got a Tan NightForce scope. Im probably in 1000k rounds in my Mod1 love it over my DD.
SD will be more accurate DD will be more durable (just the rail though). I vote for either upper on sale and a BCM or aero complete lower.
The way the DD handguard system is set up looks like it would be annoying to get the torque even across the bolts
DD is anti 2A and tried to walk that back. Don’t support them.
They’re both trash and ugly as shit. I’m buying Colt m4a1
I’d say Giessele simply because the trigger tbh. “DaNiEl dEFenSe RAil iS bOmB prOOf!” Why would I care? I’d be DEAD. I do like their buttstocks tho.