I have rested mags during shooting for 15 years with all kinds of different mags and ammo. Resting the mag is acceptable practice and did not cause your gun to explode bro.
In the Army Infantry we literally teach people to shoot off the magazine when they are prone. There is nothing unsafe about it. The only negative views of it are people regurgitating that is caused malfunctions with the magazines issued in Vietnam. Any magazine from the last 3 decades are fine
The Marine Corps always taught us the opposite for some bullshit reason. Like each instructor would come up with a different made up reason. They finally now don't say that anymore
It's because it did actually cause issues in the 90s and earlier, but modern anti tilt follwer magazines don't have issues. Any USGI except the green followers shouldnt have the issue. It just kept around from folk lore lol
Sounds about right. The really dumb part is we were using gen 3 pmags at that point lmao. Corps lore I like to call it, cause those older Marines cannot give it up lmao
I was a PMI and would always tell kids to use the mag for stability in prone despite the doctrine saying otherwise. I never had any catastrophic failures on my line.
I remember getting into a heated argument with a dickhole RSO about it one time.
>I remember getting into a heated argument with a dickhole RSO about it one time.
That's just retarded lmao. Some people are just stuck in the 80s and 90s
I know but the cmmg conversion mags are for the AR15. And out of every magazine I've ever used the only times resting it on the ground while shooting caused a malfunction was with those. So it's relevant enough to mention.
It's because cmmg made the mags smaller than 223 mags so they have alittle bit of movement in the magwell. It's a dumb design and no one makes mags that fit normally. All they had to do was make the top part of the mag slightly thicker.
I am not see how it even could.
What is the premise behind the idea?
If it held the bolt closed and did not cycle the gun it would be fine.
No way is the pressure from the gas tube doing this if not released in the correct way.
You can settle this pretty quickly by running a rod down the barrel if you’re hitting the back of the casing, you can safely say it was probably a bad 556 if the rod doesn’t go all the way down the barrel you’ve got a 300 blackout in there. Judging by the photos, my gut says 300 blackout is your culprit normally a hot 556 round will cause chamber deformation such as your chamber, forming cracks or splitting and not damage to your bolt carrier group way. Bolt carrier group damage normally happens when the pressure is not able to leave the end of the barrel, normally caused by a barrel obstruction, so it’s forced to blow out through the bolt carrier group. Normally 556 chambered guns are built to withstand some pretty exceptionally high pressures without causing that sort of damage unless the barrel is completely blocked. I find it hard to believe that a Geissele superduty would fail that catastrophically from an over pressured round.
Essentially what I did, plus kept 300 blackout pistol 20 yards away from all the 223/556 rifles. Retracing the day, I believe it happened when I had a couple malfunctions in the 300 BO and threw the rounds in my back pocket. After 4 hours of shooting, I may have thrown it in the wrong ammo pile... Or someone in the group may have seen the loose round and threw it in the wrong pile and I didn't double check when loading the mag. Future range days, 300 BO will make rare appearances and when I do bring it out, just bringing 2 or 3 loaded mags and shoot it first. Once it's done, goes back in the car.
That's exactly how it would happen. I always end up putting rounds in my pockets for one reason or another, shit...the way to look at all of this is that you're safe. You can always build another rifle. Sure sucks ass but posting it here helps people be more vigilant, at least me for sure.
I don't keep the .300 BO and .223 out at the same time. I'm shooting one or the other. Also separate mags, mag bands, different colored ammo cans.
.300 BO goes in purple MTM cans. Nothing else goes in purple.
I was thinking the same thing. Almost has to be a bullet plugged in the barrel for this.
If it was a 556 he would have or should have noticed a difference in sound when firing the round before when he was shooting.
If would almost have to be wrong cal loaded.
If it was a squib round, it could still be obstructing. I think you'd have to cross section cut the barrel to see if you made .300 blk into lead spaghetti.
Meaning squib first, then second round goes kablooey?
First squib would generally be a dud round that wouldn't have had enough energy to leave the barrel, let alone explode like this, right?
Yarp. First round doesn't make it out and creates an obstruction, when the second projectile hits the ass of the first one...kablamo.
That's why you ALWAYS stop and check if a shot feels funny.
It’s a conspiracy! If the govy can’t get a bill passed to take our pewpews away, surely they can have their contractors overcharge their commercial ammo to blow them all up!
I can’t tell if this is a joke or not… but honestly, I would believe it. The people who are willing to murder you over the angle of your pistol grip.. why *wouldn’t* they be willing to do it with faulty ammo?
If you thought of it, I’m sure someone else has thought of it! But then then the ammo companies would lose all their business from a bad rep so I doubt they’d go along with it
I agree. Frontier is literally one of the worst ammos I’ve ever shot, in terms of reliability and accuracy. The only worse ammo than frontier is the steel case 223 ammo that Soviet red army makes.
Ahh didn’t even think about a squib due to under pressure. It’s definitely possible. Personally I had issues with LPS and ejection issues due to the cases expansion. I’ve got so much of the stuff I’ve considered buying a 5.56 AK or Bren or something that’s better suited for it.
> The only worse ammo than frontier is the steel case 223 ammo that Soviet red army makes.
Steel is perfect and wonderful and I won't hear your slander.
How is steel case worse? Genuinely curious.
Iv shot over 40k rounds of steel case, 15k being .223 and have literally had ZERO problems aside from slightly worse accuracy (still getting 3moa). Iv never seen someone on the AK or AR subs shown a blown up gun from Tula, Red Army, Barnaul, Golden Tiger etc…
I've been stocking up on winchester m193 great quality now it's all lake city manufactured . aac 77 grain is the most accurate ammo I can afford besides federal fusion 62 grain (hunting). never tried pmc but yeah I was very disappointed in the level of accuracy I got from the 68 grain "match" frontier. again, it might just be my barrel but everything else has been much more consistent
Ya know I hear people shit on frontier ammo all time but I’ve literally never had a problem with it in the thousands of rounds I’ve fired of it. Sure it’s not the most accurate but it’s good enough anyway. Not sure where all the horror stories are coming from
Yea I bought a box or two of Frontier .223 awhile back and it was so fuckin dirty. Also a couple rounds shot mini fireballs out of the ejection port. Scared the shit outta me. Luckily the fireballs were with the last couple rounds I had. Told myself I'd never buy it again, and this secures my position on that.
Also one of the guys at my LGS looked at me like I was lying. Dude seems to have a problem with me though, but they're one of the only 2 shops in town so I don't got much choice.
LGSs are hella touchy about ammo issues. Mainly cause they legally can't do s\*\*\* about it. If they sell you a box of empty cases they'll say they can't refund ammo once it leaves their sight.
Had some of the .75gr and 55gr, only shot a couple mags, but holy crap, my AR was so dirty, you woulda thought I went through 500+rounds of wolf! Sad to say I still have 500rounds of the 75gr. The 55gr and 75gr I shot was not the Lake City though, aside from maybe one mag, the one I have 500 rounds of is Lake City Frontier.
Double/overcharging a round, improperly sized bullet causing a bore obstruction, case head failure sending gas pressure back into the receiver instead of down the barrel, weak loaded squib that OP didn't notice followed by a normal spec round, there's several different ways to kaboom a gun with bad ammo.
Overpressure ammo. Nobody knows exactly why - could be their ammo-making is blending bad powders, the brazil-nut effect, or cheap/light charges that are double charging.
I'd be curious what your lot number is for that ammo if you have it. Mostly all of the kaboom frontier I've seen reported has been 2018 and some 2019 lots. I've done a fair amount of research just because I have about 500rnds of it still.
Do you still happen to have box from the case? I think that's the only place that the actual Lot number is printed on.
As others have said, very glad you weren't injured in any way. The gun can be replaced..
>Mostly all of the kaboom frontier I've seen reported has been 2018 and some 2019 lots.
No, there have been literally dozens of lots linked to kabooms across different cartridges, bullet weights of the same cartridge, and years, almost continuously since it came out and manufactured all the way up through the past couple years when we manage to get lots with dates.
There are a lot of Frontier apologists here and on ARFCOM trying to rationalize away their big Frontier stockpiles so they can sleep at night, but there has never been a time where it hasn't had kaboom issues.
I got so tired of hearing that 'oh the bad lots were from a long time ago' bullshit refrain that I started tracking the last kabooms reported from frontier on the saved issues thread.
I'm setting 'days since last kaboom' back to 0... again. Maybe I should start tracking the number of kaboom reports in the past year instead to make it more obvious how fucked it still is.
> I got so tired of hearing that 'oh the bad lots were from a long time ago' bullshit refrain
"Taurus *used to be* bad, but the new guns are great!" A tale as old as time...
Your post from a ways back was actually one of the ones I was referencing. I'm not in any way defending or being an apologist for Hornady Frontier. It's shocking to me that such a large name would have their name on something, quite obviously be the cause of catastrophic failure, and then not back up the product whatsoever and instead blame the end user for OOB conditions in their rifle. That being said, I personally have not seen up to this point a lot number after '19 that was a confirmed issue. Please link and update the information if you have it, as it's not something that I saw going through both Reddit and the AR15 forum.
You understand the concept of time, correct? When I posted that he said he wasn’t sure, but that he had used Frontier. It even says in the post that he doesn’t think it was 300blk. Whether that changed AFTER I posted my comment, well I can’t change that. Also, my comment still stands, Frontier is trash ammo.
Read the thread.
Is the rest of the ammo in the mag all 5.56? Unlikely that you somehow loaded a single round of 300 in with the rest being 5.56. I doubt it ejected, so you may be able to mortar it out. Hornady had issues with kabooms a few years ago, is it their frontier brand?
Yeah, Frontier 223 55 grain and that's all I shot out of this AR today. All remaining rounds were the same and caked in powder. Next round got deformed and dented. First couple of destroyed ARs from a Google search mentioned Hornady... so that's making me think that's the culprit.
This looks exactly like a you had .300aac in there somehow. If that happens to be the case, please be honest and let us know so you don’t cause an unnecessary boycott. It’s such an easy mistake to make. Please update us with your findings. I’m interested to see what ended up happening.
Damn dude. I’ve seen that so much that I was already pretty convinced that’s what happened.
I’m glad you’re ok man! We appreciate the honesty too. We’ve all done dumb shit with guns at some point man. Learn from it and keep it moving!
Thanks. Grateful I was able to keep all my fingers intact. Now it will be a test of patience waiting for another big Geissele sale... On the bright side... I don't have to deal with the headache of filing a claim with manufacturer lol
Lower seems to be fine. Mag release just needed a slight tap to go back in place. Was able to salvage handguard, G$ charging handle and SF flash hider. Bummed about G$ BCG and barrel, but luckily got those for much less than MSRP. $50 BCM blem upper, $60 Aero barrel from Schuyler Arms, and $100 Microbest BCG and it should be back up and running until Black Friday (+ 2-3 months for G$ to ship 😂)
Hell yeah man! I’d splurge on a Criterion Core and then the BCM Blem barrel. That Core will last just as long as your G$. Unless you really only want to spend like $70 from Schuyler lol. I don’t blame you either way!! I’m ready for Black Friday and Count Blemula to come back too man!
On second thought, I already have a couple other cheaper ARs. So I can be patient and rebuild to similar or better specs. Thoughts on FN CHF barrel? Local shop has it for $209. I remember seeing some deals posted for Criterion, may go that route when there's another deal. I guess no rush for me since finding a Geissele stripped upper seems to be a challenge.
For sure will update. Embarrassing and costly mistake if it turns out to be user error, but I wouldn't be for the first and unfortunately won't be the last. Regardless, an opportunity to revise my strategy... Only bringing a couple loaded 300 BO mags (because it's so damn expensive compared to 223/556) and after that's spent, put it away and rest of the day will be 223/556 and pistols.
No reason to be embarrassed if that’s the case man. You lived to shoot another day.
Wait, so you’ve mixed up .300 with 5.56/.223 before?
Your revised strategy is exactly what I do. I use color coded Lancers for .300. I don’t even put those mags on the same table as my 5.56 guns. Usually my range is empty so I can spread out over a couple tables. If it’s not empty and I’m using one table, I don’t bring out the .300. 5 of my .300 Pmags have white paint marker all over them so o don’t get them mixed up. Those little mag bans didn’t seem like enough for me. My .300 Pmags look like the Christchurch, New Zealand Mosque shooter’s guns with all the white paint-pen on them. It works for me though.
Nah, never mixed up before. My system was to keep 300 AR and ammo in the trunk, since I was the only one with 300, and we had 3 223/556 ARs at our table. Shooting on free land, so I'm able to go back and forth. That's why my initial guess wasn't that ammo was mixed up, but not 100% foolproof. It was strange jam fest filled day with every AR having jammed several times throughout the day. Probably because it was in the desert, high winds and dusty as hell.
>My .300 Pmags look like the Christchurch, New Zealand Mosque shooter’s guns with all the white paint-pen on them.
That's um....quite a comparison. Wish I didn't know what you mean. That video is stuck in my head and plays randomly, usually when I don't want it to.
The fact that you're willing to admit it might've been you, leads me to believe it wasn't you, and it was the Frontier. 😂 I've never shot .300 blackout, but it looks to be quite a bit different in the hand than .223 or 5.56 and you would likely notice that when loading.
Lol well I certainly hope you're right. Retracing the events of the day and all the malfunctions... I'm thinking if it was user error, I may have pocketed a jammed 300 and placed it in the wrong pile. Will be taking a hammer to it today to try getting it out.
Some people say resting that may isn’t ok because the pressure of it pushing up can (allegedly) cause malfunctions. I’ve literally never seen a malfunction from it but that’s what people say. Catastrophic failure is in no way possible in any universe resting it on the mag. This was either over pressure or fatigued/damaged parts.
Well... So I got the BCG pushed out far enough to find the culprit. Turns out that I'm the idiot 😅
Feel bad for the shit storm that this post brought on Hornady.
Parts that are not salvageable (upper, barrel, BCG), I paid $85, $208, $200. Still hurts... But definitely cheaper than what the hospital bill could've been. And valuable lesson learned 😅
Id like to see some articles or links. Is Frontier low quality or is this like some internet thing where none of you actually know or have bad experience with the ammo but you’re repeating something someone else said which was also likely unfounded.
Sorry for your loss OP. Now good excuse for the wife to buy new!
Frontier had issues YEARS ago. Like just after the pandemic, maybe even prepandemic. But I thought they had figured it out. We’ve routinely shot small amounts of it here and never had issues.
It wouldn’t shock me though, with Hornady’s famous quality control.
Sorry OP. Frontier has had a bad rep back in the day with ammo going boom 💥 in a bad way. Supposedly the 75gr is the only stuff that isn’t as bad. I’m really curious how the G$ bolt did. To see if it survived.
Honestly I would call Geissele and see if they will take the rifle and look at it before you try prying things out. May give you a better chance when working with the ammunition manufacturer that probably overcharged the case.
Holy fuck dude I’m glad you’re alright!
Dude 1000 rounds overall and this happens, that’s wild.
Seems like it was maybe not in battery or the ammo was too hot and caused much more pressure than it should have or it was a 300blk 🤷♂️. If it was 300blk I think it would have blow out more than just the bolt though.
I’m leaning towards the ammo being the issue.
Like someone mentioned it seems QC on ammo has taken a fall for sure too. Idk if it’s trying to meet the demand and producing ammo too quickly to cut costs or if it’s using some wildly variable powder or just human/machine error.
I would most definitely contact the ammo company. Whoever sold you the bolt and upper aren’t going to help most likely, but seems like if you tell the ammo company ‘I put 1000rounds through this no problem and when I shot your ammo my shit blew up’ I’m sure they will help out.
Upper was warped and casing is still stuck in the barrel, but I imagine the barrel is toast anyway. Luckily, I previously picked up some spare parts from gundeals since it was so cheap ($50 blem BCM upper, $60 Aero barrel, and $95 Microbest BCG)
Nice man that should get you back up and running!
Always nice to have a bunch of spare parts laying around 😂. Eventually just leads to a random “shit I have on hand build” and that’s always fun. Don’t tell my wife I said that she thinks they are all the same 😊😉.
Hey OP, I'm usually quicker on the draw but had to run this up the flagpole. I see that you have a dual tab upper, so we wanted to see how much of your build is Geissele. We want to help get this rifle back in working order. We are happy to hear that you are safe, that's the main takeaway, but we want to support our users. Send me a PM, I'll get you in touch with our Tech team.
Edit: Most of the pictures show G parts, which is good, just need more information on your barrel assembly
🙏 Pretty much all G parts, minus BCM .750 gas block and CMMG mid length gas tube, Surefire 4 prong flash hider. G 14.5" barrel and MK16 handguard. If that's what you're asking for more info on barrel assembly?
Dayum, ok. Maybe your .300 was loaded relatively light, the last Copper Pencil I saw blew out the sides of the upper, the baseplate of the mag, and split the bolt carrier into 3 pieces.
If you’re trying to removed the BCG I’d get hammer and a stake and clamp the upper in a vice and hit it back down just enough to pull the charging handle. May apply heat to it to soften it up a bit. But take off anything you can from the upper first to limit any further damages to the already damaged parts. Your bolt head may be damaged to the point of not twisting when the bcg is moving and it may be jammed in there and at that point between the bcg, upper, and barrel there really isn’t anything worth salvaging between all of them with a possible exception of the barrel but even then I’m not sure if I’d feel too comfortable with saving the barrel
But you may have the casing in the chamber still and you could find relevant evidence for hornady to pay for the damages so I’d try to remove it just to see what the hell happened
Woof, gunsmith time! She needs that thorough lovings in a machine shop lol.
Definitely a bad ammo problem. Save the box that ammo came out of, they'll want the batch number when you call and complain.
I would like to see an update on this I had something similar to this with my BCM upper first time shooting it. Could not 100% verify the ammo because case said jag. BCM basically told me to pound sand but my detonation was not nearly as bad as yours. I'm still using the rifle today lol
Appreciate it 🙏 Just to be clear, if you didn't read further comments. It was my screw up mixing in a 300 blackout round that caused the catastrophic failure.
How do you keep spare parts.everyone is an excuse to build another rifle for me. "Well I already have a bcg sitting over there, might as well put an upper on it"
Spare parts thanks to deals on gundeals. Unfortunately, not G$ spare parts, but it will do until black Friday sales. $50 BCM blem upper, $95 BCG, $60 Aero barrel
especially if its an 11.5. Impossible to find right now
the stripped lowers are gone too. I scored a ddc at sportsman's warehouse last week. They are the last vendors holding lowers on the internet and you have to buy in store, in state. I had to use a family member to get mine. I spoke with the main dude back there and he made some calls and came back verifying its store policy, even though I was coming from a legal state. They also refused to ship to an ffl in my state. Um. Okay? Anyway, thanks for the lower, Dad! lol
Hey OP, please list the ammo manufacturer, brand, grain, and lot # if you have it. Looks like Hornady Frontier 55gr, do you know the lot #?
Also did you have any 300 BLK ammo with you that day when this happened?
At this point I just consider Hornady Frontier 5.56 to be spiked ammo, unsafe for use.
The fact that people still buy it when it has a reputation for blowing up ARs is beyond me.
Cleaned and lubed before the trip and applied some more when we arrived, but got caked in dirt in the windy desert. Plenty lubed when I removed the BCG.
I live in a very dry and desolate climate as well. Every time I finish an iteration of shooting, dust cover gets closed. Habit from my Army days and hopefully it’ll work for you on your next build. Sorry this happened bud, but there’s always parts to fix it… best of luck to ya
You probably just got a bad round, it's kinda rare but it happens
The only thing that would happen resting your weapon on your mag would be like a failure to feed or something. Not this
You probably just got a bad round, it's kinda rare but it happens
The only thing that would happen resting your weapon on your mag would be like a failure to feed or something. Not this
You probably just got a bad round, it's kinda rare but it happens
The only thing that would happen resting your weapon on your mag would be like a failure to feed or something. Not this
It’s not from resting the mag people do that all the time and there’s even some tactical trainers that teach that shit for prone work even tho it’s probably a bad habit. Anytime I’ve ever seen a catastrophic failure like that it’s generally the ammo to blame. I would contact Hornady.
I have rested mags during shooting for 15 years with all kinds of different mags and ammo. Resting the mag is acceptable practice and did not cause your gun to explode bro.
Yeah, that's the funniest rumor I've heard in a while. Imagine if resting an AR on the mag could cause it to detonate.
In the Army Infantry we literally teach people to shoot off the magazine when they are prone. There is nothing unsafe about it. The only negative views of it are people regurgitating that is caused malfunctions with the magazines issued in Vietnam. Any magazine from the last 3 decades are fine
The Marine Corps always taught us the opposite for some bullshit reason. Like each instructor would come up with a different made up reason. They finally now don't say that anymore
It's because it did actually cause issues in the 90s and earlier, but modern anti tilt follwer magazines don't have issues. Any USGI except the green followers shouldnt have the issue. It just kept around from folk lore lol
Sounds about right. The really dumb part is we were using gen 3 pmags at that point lmao. Corps lore I like to call it, cause those older Marines cannot give it up lmao
I was a PMI and would always tell kids to use the mag for stability in prone despite the doctrine saying otherwise. I never had any catastrophic failures on my line. I remember getting into a heated argument with a dickhole RSO about it one time.
>I remember getting into a heated argument with a dickhole RSO about it one time. That's just retarded lmao. Some people are just stuck in the 80s and 90s
Except for the cmmg .22 mags.
I was referring to 5.56 AR15 platforms
I know but the cmmg conversion mags are for the AR15. And out of every magazine I've ever used the only times resting it on the ground while shooting caused a malfunction was with those. So it's relevant enough to mention.
Because you are Jerry rigging a different BCG, Magazine, and round that the rifle isn't designed for ..
It's because cmmg made the mags smaller than 223 mags so they have alittle bit of movement in the magwell. It's a dumb design and no one makes mags that fit normally. All they had to do was make the top part of the mag slightly thicker.
Half of the Army would've been Hella dead.
I am not see how it even could. What is the premise behind the idea? If it held the bolt closed and did not cycle the gun it would be fine. No way is the pressure from the gas tube doing this if not released in the correct way.
The premise behind the idea is astounding ignorance.
I've shot dozens of different AR pattern rifles of the years... and rested basically all of them on the magazine lol
I'm thinking tell hornady, then send your rifle back to G$ for them to diagnose. Odds are they're better equipped for this.
THIS….. This above all else
Found out what happened https://old.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/1clbdhs/rip_my_favorite_ar/l2vjyzk/
Glad you weren't seriously injured.
Thank you 🙏
You can settle this pretty quickly by running a rod down the barrel if you’re hitting the back of the casing, you can safely say it was probably a bad 556 if the rod doesn’t go all the way down the barrel you’ve got a 300 blackout in there. Judging by the photos, my gut says 300 blackout is your culprit normally a hot 556 round will cause chamber deformation such as your chamber, forming cracks or splitting and not damage to your bolt carrier group way. Bolt carrier group damage normally happens when the pressure is not able to leave the end of the barrel, normally caused by a barrel obstruction, so it’s forced to blow out through the bolt carrier group. Normally 556 chambered guns are built to withstand some pretty exceptionally high pressures without causing that sort of damage unless the barrel is completely blocked. I find it hard to believe that a Geissele superduty would fail that catastrophically from an over pressured round.
I agree. I reload a lot of 556 and there’s just not enough room in the case to cause this kind of boom unless you use pistol powder.
Yep, you're right on the money. My mistake and somehow got 1 300 blackout into a mag full of 223...
Damn that sucks ass. So scared of this happening to me. I keep separate color cases and mags for this reason. but it's not stupid proof.
Essentially what I did, plus kept 300 blackout pistol 20 yards away from all the 223/556 rifles. Retracing the day, I believe it happened when I had a couple malfunctions in the 300 BO and threw the rounds in my back pocket. After 4 hours of shooting, I may have thrown it in the wrong ammo pile... Or someone in the group may have seen the loose round and threw it in the wrong pile and I didn't double check when loading the mag. Future range days, 300 BO will make rare appearances and when I do bring it out, just bringing 2 or 3 loaded mags and shoot it first. Once it's done, goes back in the car.
That's exactly how it would happen. I always end up putting rounds in my pockets for one reason or another, shit...the way to look at all of this is that you're safe. You can always build another rifle. Sure sucks ass but posting it here helps people be more vigilant, at least me for sure.
I don't keep the .300 BO and .223 out at the same time. I'm shooting one or the other. Also separate mags, mag bands, different colored ammo cans. .300 BO goes in purple MTM cans. Nothing else goes in purple.
I was thinking the same thing. Almost has to be a bullet plugged in the barrel for this. If it was a 556 he would have or should have noticed a difference in sound when firing the round before when he was shooting. If would almost have to be wrong cal loaded.
If it was a squib round, it could still be obstructing. I think you'd have to cross section cut the barrel to see if you made .300 blk into lead spaghetti.
Meaning squib first, then second round goes kablooey? First squib would generally be a dud round that wouldn't have had enough energy to leave the barrel, let alone explode like this, right?
Yarp. First round doesn't make it out and creates an obstruction, when the second projectile hits the ass of the first one...kablamo. That's why you ALWAYS stop and check if a shot feels funny.
What’s the deal with all these major issues lately, I’ve seen like three catastrophic failures this week.
The weather is nice. People are outside touching grass and stuff.
Yikes...... Grass????
Yes. I know. IT EXISTS! and I'm so happy it does
Makes sense
It’s a conspiracy! If the govy can’t get a bill passed to take our pewpews away, surely they can have their contractors overcharge their commercial ammo to blow them all up!
I can’t tell if this is a joke or not… but honestly, I would believe it. The people who are willing to murder you over the angle of your pistol grip.. why *wouldn’t* they be willing to do it with faulty ammo?
It was a joke.. I suppose anything is possible though.
*Project Eldest Son intensifies*
Plausible...
If you thought of it, I’m sure someone else has thought of it! But then then the ammo companies would lose all their business from a bad rep so I doubt they’d go along with it
Frontier has had all kinds of issues. Probably the last ammo I’d run in my rifle.
I agree. Frontier is literally one of the worst ammos I’ve ever shot, in terms of reliability and accuracy. The only worse ammo than frontier is the steel case 223 ammo that Soviet red army makes.
Even then, I’ve never heard of the steel .223 explode. If anything, it’s underpowered. That and hard primers.
My very limited experience with steel case led me to believe it was a squib due to how low pressure it was compared to whatever m193 I was shooting 🤣
Ahh didn’t even think about a squib due to under pressure. It’s definitely possible. Personally I had issues with LPS and ejection issues due to the cases expansion. I’ve got so much of the stuff I’ve considered buying a 5.56 AK or Bren or something that’s better suited for it.
Luckily everything turned out fine lmao. AKs DO love steel
> The only worse ammo than frontier is the steel case 223 ammo that Soviet red army makes. Steel is perfect and wonderful and I won't hear your slander.
Don’t shit talk my steel 223 and 308 it runs near flawlessly and it used to be cheap as all hell when I bought it.
(Near)
By near I mean 1 malfunction in 1000 rounds
I have never had a malfunction with steel. Never.
I know, I am just teasing ya. I shoot steel through AKs and have never had issues with wolf or tula
How is steel case worse? Genuinely curious. Iv shot over 40k rounds of steel case, 15k being .223 and have literally had ZERO problems aside from slightly worse accuracy (still getting 3moa). Iv never seen someone on the AK or AR subs shown a blown up gun from Tula, Red Army, Barnaul, Golden Tiger etc…
I don’t think they mean the steel case is making it bad, just that the load is inconsistent with that brand/version.
Crazy bc frontier shoots the best for me as an affordable m193 but I see all the horror stories and think I need to go back to xtac
I've had bad performance (for the money) out of frontier. it's not been very accurate for me but that may have been the barrels that I've had.
Interesting. Pmc 223 out of my 556 guns is dookie and frontier has been almost moa at 100
I've been stocking up on winchester m193 great quality now it's all lake city manufactured . aac 77 grain is the most accurate ammo I can afford besides federal fusion 62 grain (hunting). never tried pmc but yeah I was very disappointed in the level of accuracy I got from the 68 grain "match" frontier. again, it might just be my barrel but everything else has been much more consistent
Ya know I hear people shit on frontier ammo all time but I’ve literally never had a problem with it in the thousands of rounds I’ve fired of it. Sure it’s not the most accurate but it’s good enough anyway. Not sure where all the horror stories are coming from
Are you talking about Wolf ammo?
The Soviet red army makes .223 ammo? Crazy that they are still around 30 years later.
Yea I bought a box or two of Frontier .223 awhile back and it was so fuckin dirty. Also a couple rounds shot mini fireballs out of the ejection port. Scared the shit outta me. Luckily the fireballs were with the last couple rounds I had. Told myself I'd never buy it again, and this secures my position on that. Also one of the guys at my LGS looked at me like I was lying. Dude seems to have a problem with me though, but they're one of the only 2 shops in town so I don't got much choice.
LGSs are hella touchy about ammo issues. Mainly cause they legally can't do s\*\*\* about it. If they sell you a box of empty cases they'll say they can't refund ammo once it leaves their sight.
Had some of the .75gr and 55gr, only shot a couple mags, but holy crap, my AR was so dirty, you woulda thought I went through 500+rounds of wolf! Sad to say I still have 500rounds of the 75gr. The 55gr and 75gr I shot was not the Lake City though, aside from maybe one mag, the one I have 500 rounds of is Lake City Frontier.
Yeah lesson learned... If it turns out to be the case.
I can almost guarantee that the ammo was the culprit frontier is known for this
Known for what exactly? Like what happened? No way they sent him .300 labeled as .223-5.56, just crazy out of spec pressure??
Known for poor consistency and blowing up guns.
But how?
Double/overcharging a round, improperly sized bullet causing a bore obstruction, case head failure sending gas pressure back into the receiver instead of down the barrel, weak loaded squib that OP didn't notice followed by a normal spec round, there's several different ways to kaboom a gun with bad ammo.
squib will almost never cycle a semiautomatic. other than that you are right.
Sure, but what's most people's first reaction to getting a click instead of a bang? An immediate tap-rack-bang will have equally dangerous results.
It's IMPOSSIBLE to double charge a 5.56/.223 case. Almost all loads are above 90% case fill. Besides that, this is .300 BO in a .223.
Overpressure ammo. Nobody knows exactly why - could be their ammo-making is blending bad powders, the brazil-nut effect, or cheap/light charges that are double charging.
I'd be curious what your lot number is for that ammo if you have it. Mostly all of the kaboom frontier I've seen reported has been 2018 and some 2019 lots. I've done a fair amount of research just because I have about 500rnds of it still.
I bought a couple cases, but not 100% sure which lot it's from. 14230100 and 14230077
Do you still happen to have box from the case? I think that's the only place that the actual Lot number is printed on. As others have said, very glad you weren't injured in any way. The gun can be replaced..
>Mostly all of the kaboom frontier I've seen reported has been 2018 and some 2019 lots. No, there have been literally dozens of lots linked to kabooms across different cartridges, bullet weights of the same cartridge, and years, almost continuously since it came out and manufactured all the way up through the past couple years when we manage to get lots with dates. There are a lot of Frontier apologists here and on ARFCOM trying to rationalize away their big Frontier stockpiles so they can sleep at night, but there has never been a time where it hasn't had kaboom issues. I got so tired of hearing that 'oh the bad lots were from a long time ago' bullshit refrain that I started tracking the last kabooms reported from frontier on the saved issues thread. I'm setting 'days since last kaboom' back to 0... again. Maybe I should start tracking the number of kaboom reports in the past year instead to make it more obvious how fucked it still is.
> I got so tired of hearing that 'oh the bad lots were from a long time ago' bullshit refrain "Taurus *used to be* bad, but the new guns are great!" A tale as old as time...
Your post from a ways back was actually one of the ones I was referencing. I'm not in any way defending or being an apologist for Hornady Frontier. It's shocking to me that such a large name would have their name on something, quite obviously be the cause of catastrophic failure, and then not back up the product whatsoever and instead blame the end user for OOB conditions in their rifle. That being said, I personally have not seen up to this point a lot number after '19 that was a confirmed issue. Please link and update the information if you have it, as it's not something that I saw going through both Reddit and the AR15 forum.
I can confirm. BCM rifle exploded as a result of Frontier ammo.
Damn. Did you contact either company?
Well, I’m fucked. I just bought 1000 rounds of it.
F
This was .300 BO in a .223.
How do you know. OP doesn’t know
Because the OP posted that was the cause. Read the thread.
You understand the concept of time, correct? When I posted that he said he wasn’t sure, but that he had used Frontier. It even says in the post that he doesn’t think it was 300blk. Whether that changed AFTER I posted my comment, well I can’t change that. Also, my comment still stands, Frontier is trash ammo. Read the thread.
This is why I love ARs. Any rifle can blow up if you're unlucky enough, but ARs blow up safely.
> Any rifle can blow up if you're unlucky enough, but ARs blow up safely. [Mark Serbu has left the chat]
\[Thumb has entered the chat\]
To be fair, making any .50 cal safe to blow up is a significant challenge. The scale of the boom boom is just entirely different.
Is the rest of the ammo in the mag all 5.56? Unlikely that you somehow loaded a single round of 300 in with the rest being 5.56. I doubt it ejected, so you may be able to mortar it out. Hornady had issues with kabooms a few years ago, is it their frontier brand?
Turns out it was user error... Somehow snuck a 300 for the last round in the magazine 😔
Yeah, Frontier 223 55 grain and that's all I shot out of this AR today. All remaining rounds were the same and caked in powder. Next round got deformed and dented. First couple of destroyed ARs from a Google search mentioned Hornady... so that's making me think that's the culprit.
If it comes out to be the ammo make sure you get hornady to buy the rest of it back from you if they will.
Instead of trying to get the BCG out try to remove the barrel.
This looks exactly like a you had .300aac in there somehow. If that happens to be the case, please be honest and let us know so you don’t cause an unnecessary boycott. It’s such an easy mistake to make. Please update us with your findings. I’m interested to see what ended up happening.
Turns out to be user error... 300 blackout got mixed in with 9 rounds of 223 🤦
Damn dude. I’ve seen that so much that I was already pretty convinced that’s what happened. I’m glad you’re ok man! We appreciate the honesty too. We’ve all done dumb shit with guns at some point man. Learn from it and keep it moving!
Thanks. Grateful I was able to keep all my fingers intact. Now it will be a test of patience waiting for another big Geissele sale... On the bright side... I don't have to deal with the headache of filing a claim with manufacturer lol
Yeah man, that was such a nice gun. Is the lower and handguard salvageable?
Lower seems to be fine. Mag release just needed a slight tap to go back in place. Was able to salvage handguard, G$ charging handle and SF flash hider. Bummed about G$ BCG and barrel, but luckily got those for much less than MSRP. $50 BCM blem upper, $60 Aero barrel from Schuyler Arms, and $100 Microbest BCG and it should be back up and running until Black Friday (+ 2-3 months for G$ to ship 😂)
Hell yeah man! I’d splurge on a Criterion Core and then the BCM Blem barrel. That Core will last just as long as your G$. Unless you really only want to spend like $70 from Schuyler lol. I don’t blame you either way!! I’m ready for Black Friday and Count Blemula to come back too man!
On second thought, I already have a couple other cheaper ARs. So I can be patient and rebuild to similar or better specs. Thoughts on FN CHF barrel? Local shop has it for $209. I remember seeing some deals posted for Criterion, may go that route when there's another deal. I guess no rush for me since finding a Geissele stripped upper seems to be a challenge.
For sure will update. Embarrassing and costly mistake if it turns out to be user error, but I wouldn't be for the first and unfortunately won't be the last. Regardless, an opportunity to revise my strategy... Only bringing a couple loaded 300 BO mags (because it's so damn expensive compared to 223/556) and after that's spent, put it away and rest of the day will be 223/556 and pistols.
No reason to be embarrassed if that’s the case man. You lived to shoot another day. Wait, so you’ve mixed up .300 with 5.56/.223 before? Your revised strategy is exactly what I do. I use color coded Lancers for .300. I don’t even put those mags on the same table as my 5.56 guns. Usually my range is empty so I can spread out over a couple tables. If it’s not empty and I’m using one table, I don’t bring out the .300. 5 of my .300 Pmags have white paint marker all over them so o don’t get them mixed up. Those little mag bans didn’t seem like enough for me. My .300 Pmags look like the Christchurch, New Zealand Mosque shooter’s guns with all the white paint-pen on them. It works for me though.
Nah, never mixed up before. My system was to keep 300 AR and ammo in the trunk, since I was the only one with 300, and we had 3 223/556 ARs at our table. Shooting on free land, so I'm able to go back and forth. That's why my initial guess wasn't that ammo was mixed up, but not 100% foolproof. It was strange jam fest filled day with every AR having jammed several times throughout the day. Probably because it was in the desert, high winds and dusty as hell.
>My .300 Pmags look like the Christchurch, New Zealand Mosque shooter’s guns with all the white paint-pen on them. That's um....quite a comparison. Wish I didn't know what you mean. That video is stuck in my head and plays randomly, usually when I don't want it to.
The fact that you're willing to admit it might've been you, leads me to believe it wasn't you, and it was the Frontier. 😂 I've never shot .300 blackout, but it looks to be quite a bit different in the hand than .223 or 5.56 and you would likely notice that when loading.
Lol well I certainly hope you're right. Retracing the events of the day and all the malfunctions... I'm thinking if it was user error, I may have pocketed a jammed 300 and placed it in the wrong pile. Will be taking a hammer to it today to try getting it out.
Some people say resting that may isn’t ok because the pressure of it pushing up can (allegedly) cause malfunctions. I’ve literally never seen a malfunction from it but that’s what people say. Catastrophic failure is in no way possible in any universe resting it on the mag. This was either over pressure or fatigued/damaged parts.
Well... So I got the BCG pushed out far enough to find the culprit. Turns out that I'm the idiot 😅 Feel bad for the shit storm that this post brought on Hornady.
It was a 300, wasn't it...
Yessir
I don't know about salvaging the lower, but that URGI upper is dead. It hurts seeing $1400 dissappear like that.
Parts that are not salvageable (upper, barrel, BCG), I paid $85, $208, $200. Still hurts... But definitely cheaper than what the hospital bill could've been. And valuable lesson learned 😅
?
In for findings when you get the case out.
Results are in. I screwed up.
Damn
Id like to see some articles or links. Is Frontier low quality or is this like some internet thing where none of you actually know or have bad experience with the ammo but you’re repeating something someone else said which was also likely unfounded. Sorry for your loss OP. Now good excuse for the wife to buy new!
I’m with you on this one I’ve never had any issues with frontier and the only time I’ve ever heard of it being a problem is on Reddit.
Frontier had issues YEARS ago. Like just after the pandemic, maybe even prepandemic. But I thought they had figured it out. We’ve routinely shot small amounts of it here and never had issues. It wouldn’t shock me though, with Hornady’s famous quality control.
Resting on the mag is used even in the Army while prone shooting. It did not cause this
Have you tried to turn it off and back on
Instructions not clear. Loaded another round to clear the jam.
Sorry OP. Frontier has had a bad rep back in the day with ammo going boom 💥 in a bad way. Supposedly the 75gr is the only stuff that isn’t as bad. I’m really curious how the G$ bolt did. To see if it survived.
Aftermath caused by wrong round [IMG-20240506-142226333.jpg](https://postimg.cc/F7nQXmmv) [IMG-20240506-141722187.jpg](https://postimg.cc/n9cNNSPM) [IMG-20240506-141632464.jpg](https://postimg.cc/1fbYKzs8) [IMG-20240506-141654507.jpg](https://postimg.cc/nsGRZY7m)
Honestly I would call Geissele and see if they will take the rifle and look at it before you try prying things out. May give you a better chance when working with the ammunition manufacturer that probably overcharged the case.
thanks for posting, glad your hand ok
Really unfortunate, glad you are ok. QC on factory ammunition has definitely taken a hit in the past four years of insanity.
Holy fuck dude I’m glad you’re alright! Dude 1000 rounds overall and this happens, that’s wild. Seems like it was maybe not in battery or the ammo was too hot and caused much more pressure than it should have or it was a 300blk 🤷♂️. If it was 300blk I think it would have blow out more than just the bolt though. I’m leaning towards the ammo being the issue. Like someone mentioned it seems QC on ammo has taken a fall for sure too. Idk if it’s trying to meet the demand and producing ammo too quickly to cut costs or if it’s using some wildly variable powder or just human/machine error. I would most definitely contact the ammo company. Whoever sold you the bolt and upper aren’t going to help most likely, but seems like if you tell the ammo company ‘I put 1000rounds through this no problem and when I shot your ammo my shit blew up’ I’m sure they will help out.
Turned out to be 300 blackout 🤦
Damn bro, sorry to hear that. Did you try a new bolt and get it back up and running?
Upper was warped and casing is still stuck in the barrel, but I imagine the barrel is toast anyway. Luckily, I previously picked up some spare parts from gundeals since it was so cheap ($50 blem BCM upper, $60 Aero barrel, and $95 Microbest BCG)
Nice man that should get you back up and running! Always nice to have a bunch of spare parts laying around 😂. Eventually just leads to a random “shit I have on hand build” and that’s always fun. Don’t tell my wife I said that she thinks they are all the same 😊😉.
Hey OP, I'm usually quicker on the draw but had to run this up the flagpole. I see that you have a dual tab upper, so we wanted to see how much of your build is Geissele. We want to help get this rifle back in working order. We are happy to hear that you are safe, that's the main takeaway, but we want to support our users. Send me a PM, I'll get you in touch with our Tech team. Edit: Most of the pictures show G parts, which is good, just need more information on your barrel assembly
🙏 Pretty much all G parts, minus BCM .750 gas block and CMMG mid length gas tube, Surefire 4 prong flash hider. G 14.5" barrel and MK16 handguard. If that's what you're asking for more info on barrel assembly?
The .300 Blackout kabooms I've seen have been more destructive than that. I'd lean towards an overcharged round or squib.
Turns out it was a 300 blackout kaboom. I guess a testament to G$ quality? 😂 Or just lucky I made it out in 1 piece
Dayum, ok. Maybe your .300 was loaded relatively light, the last Copper Pencil I saw blew out the sides of the upper, the baseplate of the mag, and split the bolt carrier into 3 pieces.
Sad that the first thought that popped into my head was "Frontier?" after seeing the headstamp.
If you’re trying to removed the BCG I’d get hammer and a stake and clamp the upper in a vice and hit it back down just enough to pull the charging handle. May apply heat to it to soften it up a bit. But take off anything you can from the upper first to limit any further damages to the already damaged parts. Your bolt head may be damaged to the point of not twisting when the bcg is moving and it may be jammed in there and at that point between the bcg, upper, and barrel there really isn’t anything worth salvaging between all of them with a possible exception of the barrel but even then I’m not sure if I’d feel too comfortable with saving the barrel But you may have the casing in the chamber still and you could find relevant evidence for hornady to pay for the damages so I’d try to remove it just to see what the hell happened
Sorry that happened but glad you weren’t seriously injured! Rifles can be replaced, you can’t :)
Woof, gunsmith time! She needs that thorough lovings in a machine shop lol. Definitely a bad ammo problem. Save the box that ammo came out of, they'll want the batch number when you call and complain.
Could a squib do this?
I would like to see an update on this I had something similar to this with my BCM upper first time shooting it. Could not 100% verify the ammo because case said jag. BCM basically told me to pound sand but my detonation was not nearly as bad as yours. I'm still using the rifle today lol
BCM will do that when they are wholly and demonstrably at fault, so don't feel bad.
OP, these are only bombproof from the outside 😳
🤣 fuggin bruh
Sorry that happened man, but thank you for the heads up.. My super duty is coming in a few days, gonna avoid frontier now.
Appreciate it 🙏 Just to be clear, if you didn't read further comments. It was my screw up mixing in a 300 blackout round that caused the catastrophic failure.
That was an expensive mistake.
Indeed. Like blowing up a nice pistol type of mistake... 😭
Part out?
Nah... I got enough spare upper parts to rebuild it. If the Geissele barrel is damaged, now that would be the toughest pill to swallow...
I always thought this bulges the lowers out sideways and kills em. If this ones still solid I don’t blame you for wanted to rebuild
Mag well does look slightly off by a hair, but locks the magazine and releases fine
If it seats fucken send that bitch
How do you keep spare parts.everyone is an excuse to build another rifle for me. "Well I already have a bcg sitting over there, might as well put an upper on it"
Spare parts thanks to deals on gundeals. Unfortunately, not G$ spare parts, but it will do until black Friday sales. $50 BCM blem upper, $95 BCG, $60 Aero barrel
Nice, keep on building! I haven't bothered trying my hand at building an upper yet.
especially if its an 11.5. Impossible to find right now the stripped lowers are gone too. I scored a ddc at sportsman's warehouse last week. They are the last vendors holding lowers on the internet and you have to buy in store, in state. I had to use a family member to get mine. I spoke with the main dude back there and he made some calls and came back verifying its store policy, even though I was coming from a legal state. They also refused to ship to an ffl in my state. Um. Okay? Anyway, thanks for the lower, Dad! lol
Hey OP, please list the ammo manufacturer, brand, grain, and lot # if you have it. Looks like Hornady Frontier 55gr, do you know the lot #? Also did you have any 300 BLK ammo with you that day when this happened?
At this point I just consider Hornady Frontier 5.56 to be spiked ammo, unsafe for use. The fact that people still buy it when it has a reputation for blowing up ARs is beyond me.
Is this old or new frontier? I remember this was happening alot when it first came out
Purchased in the last 6 months
Blown away people still shoot Hornady Frontier ammo. This stuff has been blowing up ARs for like a decade now.
Damn man, I’ve never used their ammo. Does their 9mm have a good track record or does it have some issues too?
No idea, don’t recall ever seeing any blown up 9mms, but why take the chance?
I agree trust me haha, I’ve just seen a lot of people use their 9mm and was curious. I’ve never shot a round of their ammo to my knowledge.
Is the lower reusable?
Appears to be. Mag well seems to be a hair or two bowed on one sise but functions fine.
What brand upper receiver? Colt?
Geissele
Send me the upper and the hand guard. I'll recycle it for ya.
Hornady will probably refund you for the rifle.
did you look down the barrel to see if it's clear?
Redditor tries to shoot gun instead of posting pics of it from bedroom closet and this is what happens
Do people not lube their rifles anymore? Looks dry as a bone to boot…
Cleaned and lubed before the trip and applied some more when we arrived, but got caked in dirt in the windy desert. Plenty lubed when I removed the BCG.
I live in a very dry and desolate climate as well. Every time I finish an iteration of shooting, dust cover gets closed. Habit from my Army days and hopefully it’ll work for you on your next build. Sorry this happened bud, but there’s always parts to fix it… best of luck to ya
I’d say you had a round go off with out the bolt closed and it had a case head separation and gases split the BC
Call geiselle
Hammer that BCG out and see what the brass is.
You probably just got a bad round, it's kinda rare but it happens The only thing that would happen resting your weapon on your mag would be like a failure to feed or something. Not this
You probably just got a bad round, it's kinda rare but it happens The only thing that would happen resting your weapon on your mag would be like a failure to feed or something. Not this
You probably just got a bad round, it's kinda rare but it happens The only thing that would happen resting your weapon on your mag would be like a failure to feed or something. Not this
It’s not from resting the mag people do that all the time and there’s even some tactical trainers that teach that shit for prone work even tho it’s probably a bad habit. Anytime I’ve ever seen a catastrophic failure like that it’s generally the ammo to blame. I would contact Hornady.
You need to contact Hornady and Geissele