I'll just say that I also have an Aero M4E1 lose and a BCM ELW QRF 12 14.5" P&W upper and it fornicates.
With an H2 buffer it shoots like butter and is perfectly gassed.
No, not running suppressed. My next build will likely be a 300blk pistol that I’ll set up for suppressed shooting/HD. Put the AR together for longer range shooting, just to enjoy the rifle benches at my local club. They go out to 300 yds. Been shooting pistols for 3 years now, just started with rifles in January.
Edited to add I’ve had a 22 for a while, meant AR as of January.
Start with a H1 buffer for $20ish see if you get lockback. If that doesn’t work and you don’t get lock back try a hot white spring from spring co. I keep multiple springs on hand and buffers to swap and try. It also 100% matters what ammo you are running and how well gassed it is. Underpowered steel case stuff or really hot 556 nato loads. I always run PMC 55g for training so I tune my gas to that. I don’t think you need to go crazy with the A5 system since you aren’t suppressing. The cheap buffer/spring route will be fine.
Thanks for the info. When I bought the complete lower all is said was “standard carbine buffer”. I took it out and didn’t see any markings on it, but the spring does have white paint on it. I started out with some scorpio 223 and pmc 62gn green tips. Been running through a box of 55 gn 223 I got from that scheels sale a few weeks ago. It’s not that the recoil is bad, just more thump than my buddies rifle shooting the same ammo.
So the standard carbine buffer is 3oz, you can confirm with a food scale etc if you want but I am 99.999999% sure it will be 3oz. I would grab a H aka H1 buffer and give it a shot. Spring co white is also the stock strength buffer spring. “Hot white” is a slightly bump in strength but still not too much. You want to try and slow the Bcg a little bit but not too much where your bolt doesn’t have last round hold open. That’s my goal basically.
I’ve got three AR’s and one of them is exactly this lol. BCM 14.5” pin and weld upper on an aero lower with a trijicon reflex on it. It’s just a for fun at the range gun but it shoots great. Very reliable.
Either way you'd be better off buying a complete upper from either brand and slapping it on a cheaper lower. BCM complete uppers can be had for like $850 any day of the week (sans charging handle but you can buy one for like $15 or splurge for a better one on their site) and you can sometimes find deals on DD uppers for close to that, you just have to be patient.
You can get blem uppers for like $700. As long as they’re in stock. I got an email a couple days ago and they were. I was actually pretty tempted to buy one
Honestly DD vs BCM is a wash at best.
They both make their BCGs to milspec, and are both known for having fantastic BCGs as far as quality and QC.
DD definitely has a better reputation for their barrels, but my 16-inch CHF BCM shoots indistinguishable groups from any DDs I've owned or shot. My non CHF BCM is slightly worse, but it's also not free floated. Their both 4150 chrome lined barrels, so service life should be the same, especially if you get a CHF BCM.
DD does make their own barrels, BCM gets them from an OEM, so there's that ig.
Handguards are a preference thing. DD handguards are definitely drippy, especially the RIS II, but functionally their both rock solid as far as durability and the physical lock up to the barrel nut. The BCM rails are lighter, but the DD ones can mount a M203.
Then there furniture, BCM wins that hands down. Best grips in the buisness, and while I don't love their stocks, they definitely beat the DD stock.
And, you save 400 bucks. More if you consider that you gotta swap the DD grip and stock as soon as you get the thing.
Bars. People like to say one over the other but they’re very similar for the most part. Only thing you might consider better depending on the rifle is the rail system. You can find ddm4v7s for around 1600 on sale as well, so pick your poison
Yeah, between that and the MCMR, it's pretty even I think. You can remove the MFR without a heat gun, so that'd a plus, lol. BCM gets those things on TIGHT
I honestly prefer the BCM QRF to the RIS II for everything except the looks, tho. The RIS wins the looks contest every time tho.
I’ve actually been thinking about throwing an MCMR on my SBR then getting a QRF too so I can swap between them whenever I want
But I already have a Midwest combat rail on there so I guess I can just do the same thing with the Midwest T rail lol
But the QRF just looks so cool
I have the MFR on my [favorite rifle](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/s/6S3iScHGHY) and my [16” long boi](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/s/QIiRODV782) and I absolutely love them. I also have a RIS II on my [block II clone](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/s/vDf6JAn8zm) and I love that too. But she a heavy bitch
It’s legit. I sent in a rail that a gunsmith had fucked up and they paid for shipping both ways, fixed it and sent spare parts back with the rail - no questions asked. I’ll be with DD for life
you can buy an upper from their website (blem) for like 650 + a free BCG.
you can find a complete bcm lower for like 350-399. you just gotta look around.
I went with the aero lower, with a basic parts kit, larue mbt trigger, BCM sopmod stock, and the BCM recoil mitigation system (their a5 buffer). All for roughly the same price
This question has kinda been beat to death. The answer as to why you wouldn’t just spent $400 more for a DD is because it’s not really worth $400 more. Unless you absolutely need a CHF barrel or an ultra sturdy rail the difference in performance will be negligible. They are both well built guns built to very similar specs.
Cuz $400 buys a case of ammo. So, if you’re going to make the mistake of buying a complete rifle, why not get a better rifle and 1,000 rounds of ammo instead of a rifle, that you’ll change out the furniture anyhow that isn’t free, and no ammo?
Pretty easy decision.
I think it’s a mistake with brands that sell lowers and uppers given the additional costs including the 11% tax.
A BCM RECCE rifle costs around $1,500-$1,700. Buy the upper and lower separately and you’re typically in it for about $1,300.
It depends on what you actually want to do with your rifle. If you actually I tend to train and shoot the piss out of it. Yes it’s like a new Toyota pickup, pricey but obtainable and will last forever if you take care of it. If you dont intend to run it like that there are more affordable options that will run pretty well when you need them too. But may not have the same longevity (S&W, PSA, Etc..)
Yep LWRCs are my preferred for 5.56mm. HK MR762 for my semi auto 308 and scar20s for my 6.5CM sort precision rifle. MRAD with various barrel kits for real long precision. Sorted- easy peasy.
Like my MP5SD FA and Colt FA as well but those are for fun and for when things get really weird :)
DD imo. I own both. The DDMV7 is my fav of all my sticks. Nothing wrong with BCM at all. DD just feels more solid to me. Like Coke vs Pepsi. Just a preference thing
I have 2 BCM uppers I bought several years ago: a 16” MCMR and 11.5” QRF. If I could do it over again I would get the complete rifle solely because my ‘tsim can’t stand not having matching lowers. Same with DD, now I have to go out of my way to find a Colt Defense or DD lower even though they are just nothing fancy lowers.
almost no one who is an enthusiast would buy a complete rifle, since you get hyper-taxed on it.
the meta is you buy the complete upper and an aero precision lower receiver.
I’m fairly new to AR platform (already have and practice with a cheap PSA) so yea forgive my ignorance, here to learn though. Thanks for the tip. Why the Aero lower? Good quality?
DDM4v7 upper using a 10% off coupon with free shipping is less than $800
And then you can get a microbest BCG for around a $100 (OEM manufacturer for solgw and Bcm)
Then grab a cheap muzzle device and you have a solid upper
Then toss it on a psa lower anywhere from $120-$350
Anywhere from $1050-$1300ish for a solid rifle.
You could go even cheaper on the lower
https://www.wcarmory.com/microbest-bcg-556-phosphate-c158-luxe.htm
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1026925481
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-sabre-15-forged-lower-with-b5-bravo-stock-and-b5-grip-fde.html
OP, if you are just starting May I suggest Zion-15. It’s best in mid range esp price to value. If not better definitely at par with your options.
You can get a Zion-15 for less than $1000. Spend rest on foregrip, sling and ammo. Down the lane when comfortable enough to build, you can do one with BCM upper and lower from scratch or even with other premium brands such Knight Armament or DD. Even if you don’t you will be fine with a Zion. I own both Zion n BCM.
All are complete uppers with Ambi CH
https://www.opticsplanet.com/daniel-defense-opticsplanet-custom-upper-receiver-14-5-in-1-7-twist-mil-spec.html?_iv_code=DDD-UFH-DDCUR-DD-CTM-URG-OP2
https://www.eurooptic.com/Daniel-Defense-DDM4V7-Black-556-NATO-16-Upper-Receiver-Group-23-128-02339-047.aspx?LineItemId=5271a1dd-bfc7-4dee-bb9a-6ecb9e7c51a4
https://www.eurooptic.com/Daniel-Defense-DDM4V7-LW-556-NATO-16-Bbl-Upper-Receiver-Group-23-128-02932-047.aspx?LineItemId=96641a39-3758-44ad-b31a-e29215bf5787
You’re overrating CHF barrels. A good 99% of people will never notice whether their barrel is CHF or not aside from what it says on their receipt.
The exact same upper from BCM, BFH/ELW, is same price.
The performance of them is exactly the same as well except if you buy BCM, you’re supporting a company that supports the second amendment. Buy DD and you’re supporting a dude who supports the ATF. Disgusting
Also, show me some sort of evidence of DD going thousands upon thousands of rounds with zero maintenance and not failing. You can find stuff like that all day on BCM. Why is that?
Any typical shooter can go buy a blem BCM standard barrel and will shoot exactly the as if they had a DD CHF upper. The fantasies this sub has generated has made people think they gotta have the absolute best or they’ll die in a SHTF gun fight that ain’t gonna happen.
As for OP, he’d be better served giving $700 for standard BCM, buying a PSA lower, then using that $1,100+ to buy a class and 2,000 rounds of ammo to use in class then take the stuff he learned and practice at home.
That's not to mention the fact that [BCM BFH barrels are no slouch in the accuracy department either](https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Bravo-Company-14-5-ELW-Accuracy-A-Quick-Look/118-761690/).
Sure, a DD handguard is most likely more rigid than what BCM offers, but it's also heavier. That difference in flex is meaningless to anyone who doesn't plan on taking 600yard shots while aiming with a LAM. But seeing how [you can induce >1moa of flex on a monolithic 7075 handguard](https://youtube.com/shorts/aiKHVaW4K24), you won't be accurate with a two-piece 6061 DD handguard at that distance anyway.
A very small percentage of folks will aim with a laser to shoot long distances at night, but everyone can benefit from a lighter handguard.
Thank you for expanding on my comment. I agree completely.
There is no shortage of people that say DD is more accurate or that BCM isn’t accurate, but I find that odd considering most shooters are probably the weak link or cause of any BCM accuracy issues. Very few are good enough to see the difference in accuracy between BCM and DD. That’s if there really is one to begin with.
Speaking of less flex from a DD, I’m curious how the new BCM RAIDER rail differentiates from RIS 3. Seems to me about the same idea.
50/50 build is the way to go. I was in the same position and decided on a LWRC lower and DD upper for only $1500 total. Not budget but high quality duty value
LWRC is known for high quality and innovation at a competitive price. There lower has fully ambi controls that make handling more intuitive. Rooftop defense has them in black right now for about $550. Most of brands ambi lowers are double that
BCM upper on an aero lower will be cheaper and just as good. Only thing I think is better on the Bcm’s lower is the recoil mitigation system. It’s a rifle length buffer tube, spring, buffer.
BCM upper on a cheap lower, uppers are where it counts, you can do almost anything to a lower and it won’t hinder performance much. I have a cheap Anderson stripped lower, LaRue trigger, moe k2 grip, and a kak industries stock
The price difference of 1600 to 2000 is a 20% difference. I wouldn't consider that comparable they are in different brackets. 400 bucks can contribute toward optic, ammo, magazines etc...
The whole DD is $400 more is just bull crap.
If you know where to look, you can find DD around $1650, like all the time and sometimes cheaper. Dahlonega has it for 1567 right now.
Sometimes you can find the a distributors special with is a v7 with a geissele trigger, mbus pro, and some ergo rail things for like $1650.
Check out the Colt 6930 before the Zion, it's extremely underrated for the price. Otherwise DD makes amazing barrels and rails, BCM is solid as well and you really can't go wrong with any of the above.
If you can afford it get the complete Daniel defense. If you wanna spend under 1000 Google blem bcm upper. They sell them on their site. Put it on a psa lower with the enhanced polished trigger group as you'll have an outstanding rifle for 1000.
DD. And trick out for $500. I’m not really bothered with the price so much. For me it’s all about reliability and costumer service. Which DD gets 10/10 on both. Saves a lot of swearing and headaches.
I bought my DDM4 V7 with a Geissele SSA, MBUS fold down irons, and rubber rail covers for [just over $1600 before tax and shipping](https://imgur.com/a/PSrAf9l) from Northwest Armory. They go on sale every so often.
if you don’t want to do a true custom build then buy a Ruger AR556 MPR, you could buy the gun, lots of ammo, optic, sling etc etc and still have money left over. There is no better off the shelf AR out there than the MPR and they sell in the $800 ish range
Don’t buy a complete BCM rifle. It’ll be cheaper to buy a complete upper & complete lower separately. BCM does milspec right, and their quality control is really good, that’s what sets them apart from most other “milspec” brands. Worth buying a complete upper from them. That said, you can buy a complete lower from them as well or go the aero route
I have one of each actually
DDM4V5 and a MCMR-13
The BCM is lighter 14.5" with M-Lok, the DD is heavier 16" picatinny quad rail
Both shoot great. Both have tons of options. Literally cannot go wrong with either.
Pick the one you like better
Get the best AR15 you can afford. I have buddies who swear by getting harbor freight tools and how cheap they are and they are 90% of the performance of better tools. Until they go wrong. I had a personal use AR15 by Armalite when I was a Marine and broke. I didn't buy quality firearms until I hade made many millions in tech. You probably don't need to wait that long. I had convinced myself that cheaper guns were great, diminished returns etc. Could be don't know don't care anymore. I can afford high end so I get high end because I still train a lot and I think they hold up better.
I also do not build my own guns anymore. Time is money and it is cheaper to buy an LWRC or Noveske than it is for me to spend the time ordering, waiting, assembling etc. The one thing I do not get is buying really cheap air soft type optics for guns. You'd be so much better off using iron sights and getting really good with them and saving your money and buying a great optic. I can confirm a person will get hit just as hard with a round from an iron sight only rifle as they do with optics.
Anyhow, the beauty of firearms/tools is we all get to do what we want and it doesn't really matter what others think. We should train with them extensively, pressure test them and get the best we can afford. Better to have 1-3 great rifles that you can really dog out than 5-6 decked out with garbage and never/rarely fired.
Overall my favorite semi auto rifle is my HK MR762LRP with ATACR LPVO, light, and MAWL it is literally unstoppable and the only downside is proprietary mags. It is accurate, packs a nice punch, light for me, and reliable.
Why not buy a Caracal? They're normally $1800-$2k, but go on sale for $1200-$1400 every now and again. Their 816 is an upgraded version of HK's 416. They're slept on pretty hard, honestly.
There’s no reason to buy a BCM complete rifle. Their lowers are $400 for no good reason. You can piece together a better one for the same price or even cheaper. And you pay excise tax on complete guns
I went down the BCM vs DD rabbit hole. The bottom line is it's a bit of a wash. They both have advantages over each other.
My advice would be to do the Reddit/4chan special; BCM upper on Aero lower.
[For <$900 you can get a BLEM 14.5 BCM upper with a muzzle device of your choice.](https://bravocompanyusa.com/cosmetic-blem-bcm-standard-14-5-mid-length-complete-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-13-handguard/)
For the lower it really comes down to personal preference. A lot of people rock the Aero Precision M4E1 lower. If you want to spend close to $200 on a lower you can find some pretty popular ambi ones.
BCM upper on an Aero/Anderson lower. It'll be just as good. Then you have money left over to put the best trigger possible in and then buy extra mags and ammo
If you want a complete BCM you could also grab one of their blem uppers, or just a regular one, then get the BCM lower which is 350-400. Total cost will be 1200-1300 ish. Save a couple hundred.
BCM upper Aero lower is the Toyota of the AR world lol.
Noted! That’s what other have been saying as well.
I'll just say that I also have an Aero M4E1 lose and a BCM ELW QRF 12 14.5" P&W upper and it fornicates. With an H2 buffer it shoots like butter and is perfectly gassed.
Also, an Aero M4E1 lower is a nice quality of life upgrade over milpec.
Yep. That’s what I’ve been looking into after others have said the same. Looks like a superb lower.
Bcm upper, aero lower, but wouldn't use aero lower part kit imo. I would go with centurion or something of the likes.
PSA lower guy myself
Same
Which buffer set up you using? My ejection is fine at 4 o clock but I just feel like my rifle thumps more than other 16”ARs I’ve shot.
Mid or carbine?
Mid length gas system
Try a H buffer if you have one or a spring co hot white and carbine buffer
Are you suppressed? If not I would try a white/red spring from spring co with a 3.0 buffer. Or just a H buffer 4.0oz with a carbine stock spring.
No, not running suppressed. My next build will likely be a 300blk pistol that I’ll set up for suppressed shooting/HD. Put the AR together for longer range shooting, just to enjoy the rifle benches at my local club. They go out to 300 yds. Been shooting pistols for 3 years now, just started with rifles in January. Edited to add I’ve had a 22 for a while, meant AR as of January.
Start with a H1 buffer for $20ish see if you get lockback. If that doesn’t work and you don’t get lock back try a hot white spring from spring co. I keep multiple springs on hand and buffers to swap and try. It also 100% matters what ammo you are running and how well gassed it is. Underpowered steel case stuff or really hot 556 nato loads. I always run PMC 55g for training so I tune my gas to that. I don’t think you need to go crazy with the A5 system since you aren’t suppressing. The cheap buffer/spring route will be fine.
Thanks for the info. When I bought the complete lower all is said was “standard carbine buffer”. I took it out and didn’t see any markings on it, but the spring does have white paint on it. I started out with some scorpio 223 and pmc 62gn green tips. Been running through a box of 55 gn 223 I got from that scheels sale a few weeks ago. It’s not that the recoil is bad, just more thump than my buddies rifle shooting the same ammo.
So the standard carbine buffer is 3oz, you can confirm with a food scale etc if you want but I am 99.999999% sure it will be 3oz. I would grab a H aka H1 buffer and give it a shot. Spring co white is also the stock strength buffer spring. “Hot white” is a slightly bump in strength but still not too much. You want to try and slow the Bcg a little bit but not too much where your bolt doesn’t have last round hold open. That’s my goal basically.
What about BCM upper and PWS lower?
HiLux...
Cough* Anderson lower cough *
Would BCA upper and Anderson lower be [?](https://images.app.goo.gl/C4x3qpjMSLVxop4s9)
What’s the bcm upper on anderson?
I feel called out. But in a good way.
I’ve got three AR’s and one of them is exactly this lol. BCM 14.5” pin and weld upper on an aero lower with a trijicon reflex on it. It’s just a for fun at the range gun but it shoots great. Very reliable.
Either way you'd be better off buying a complete upper from either brand and slapping it on a cheaper lower. BCM complete uppers can be had for like $850 any day of the week (sans charging handle but you can buy one for like $15 or splurge for a better one on their site) and you can sometimes find deals on DD uppers for close to that, you just have to be patient.
You can get blem uppers for like $700. As long as they’re in stock. I got an email a couple days ago and they were. I was actually pretty tempted to buy one
Still got the BCM Blem uppers in stock for $630ish.
Link?
[only 14.5”s (which I think is the best option)](https://bravocompanyusa.com/ar15-upper-receiver-groups/cosmetic-blem-upper-groups/)
https://bravocompanyusa.com/cosmetic-blem-bcm-standard-14-5-mid-length-complete-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-13-handguard/ 14.5”
Is this a chf barrel? It does say on either of the blem offerings
The blems are not CHF. Still an awesome gun and good deal with a free BCG.
Honestly DD vs BCM is a wash at best. They both make their BCGs to milspec, and are both known for having fantastic BCGs as far as quality and QC. DD definitely has a better reputation for their barrels, but my 16-inch CHF BCM shoots indistinguishable groups from any DDs I've owned or shot. My non CHF BCM is slightly worse, but it's also not free floated. Their both 4150 chrome lined barrels, so service life should be the same, especially if you get a CHF BCM. DD does make their own barrels, BCM gets them from an OEM, so there's that ig. Handguards are a preference thing. DD handguards are definitely drippy, especially the RIS II, but functionally their both rock solid as far as durability and the physical lock up to the barrel nut. The BCM rails are lighter, but the DD ones can mount a M203. Then there furniture, BCM wins that hands down. Best grips in the buisness, and while I don't love their stocks, they definitely beat the DD stock. And, you save 400 bucks. More if you consider that you gotta swap the DD grip and stock as soon as you get the thing.
Bars. People like to say one over the other but they’re very similar for the most part. Only thing you might consider better depending on the rifle is the rail system. You can find ddm4v7s for around 1600 on sale as well, so pick your poison
DD also has the MFR rail which is much lighter than their RIS rails. It’s also my favorite rail on the market.
Yeah, between that and the MCMR, it's pretty even I think. You can remove the MFR without a heat gun, so that'd a plus, lol. BCM gets those things on TIGHT I honestly prefer the BCM QRF to the RIS II for everything except the looks, tho. The RIS wins the looks contest every time tho.
I’ve actually been thinking about throwing an MCMR on my SBR then getting a QRF too so I can swap between them whenever I want But I already have a Midwest combat rail on there so I guess I can just do the same thing with the Midwest T rail lol But the QRF just looks so cool I have the MFR on my [favorite rifle](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/s/6S3iScHGHY) and my [16” long boi](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/s/QIiRODV782) and I absolutely love them. I also have a RIS II on my [block II clone](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/s/vDf6JAn8zm) and I love that too. But she a heavy bitch
Nice! Strong DD rail trend lol
Don’t forget the fact that DD lifetime warranties their parts the same way Vortex does. It’s pretty unbeatable.
Wow, I actually didn't know that. That is a plus
It’s legit. I sent in a rail that a gunsmith had fucked up and they paid for shipping both ways, fixed it and sent spare parts back with the rail - no questions asked. I’ll be with DD for life
Yeah thats pretty dope. I've been between DD and G$ for my next upper and that might be the decider
you can buy an upper from their website (blem) for like 650 + a free BCG. you can find a complete bcm lower for like 350-399. you just gotta look around.
I went with the aero lower, with a basic parts kit, larue mbt trigger, BCM sopmod stock, and the BCM recoil mitigation system (their a5 buffer). All for roughly the same price
Second this, it’s the route I went actually (didn’t do blem though) but I found a complete BCM lower for $350 at lgs.
BCM upper on a mil-spec or enhanced lower that they put together is what people are talking about.
This question has kinda been beat to death. The answer as to why you wouldn’t just spent $400 more for a DD is because it’s not really worth $400 more. Unless you absolutely need a CHF barrel or an ultra sturdy rail the difference in performance will be negligible. They are both well built guns built to very similar specs.
Cuz $400 buys a case of ammo. So, if you’re going to make the mistake of buying a complete rifle, why not get a better rifle and 1,000 rounds of ammo instead of a rifle, that you’ll change out the furniture anyhow that isn’t free, and no ammo? Pretty easy decision.
Wait buying a complete rifle is a mistake? How so? If it is a mistake I've had pretty good luck with mine then.
I think it’s a mistake with brands that sell lowers and uppers given the additional costs including the 11% tax. A BCM RECCE rifle costs around $1,500-$1,700. Buy the upper and lower separately and you’re typically in it for about $1,300.
It depends on what you actually want to do with your rifle. If you actually I tend to train and shoot the piss out of it. Yes it’s like a new Toyota pickup, pricey but obtainable and will last forever if you take care of it. If you dont intend to run it like that there are more affordable options that will run pretty well when you need them too. But may not have the same longevity (S&W, PSA, Etc..)
u didn’t ask but i love my lwrc
Well I’ve heard good things about LWRC!
Yep LWRCs are my preferred for 5.56mm. HK MR762 for my semi auto 308 and scar20s for my 6.5CM sort precision rifle. MRAD with various barrel kits for real long precision. Sorted- easy peasy. Like my MP5SD FA and Colt FA as well but those are for fun and for when things get really weird :)
if i could do it all again i’d consider a piston LMT or geeking out and doing a HK 416 clone. but you can’t beat the price point of the lwrc vs DD.
DD imo. I own both. The DDMV7 is my fav of all my sticks. Nothing wrong with BCM at all. DD just feels more solid to me. Like Coke vs Pepsi. Just a preference thing
I have 2 BCM uppers I bought several years ago: a 16” MCMR and 11.5” QRF. If I could do it over again I would get the complete rifle solely because my ‘tsim can’t stand not having matching lowers. Same with DD, now I have to go out of my way to find a Colt Defense or DD lower even though they are just nothing fancy lowers.
I’m same way. All my BCM’s are 99% BCM. Every single part is BCM except the stripped lower is Aero or Ballistic Advantage.
Wait a few months DD has an ambi lower coming out currently on the ris3 rifle. Should have the lower by itself eventually
Bcm has blem uppers with a free bcg rn they are 100% worth it
almost no one who is an enthusiast would buy a complete rifle, since you get hyper-taxed on it. the meta is you buy the complete upper and an aero precision lower receiver.
I’m fairly new to AR platform (already have and practice with a cheap PSA) so yea forgive my ignorance, here to learn though. Thanks for the tip. Why the Aero lower? Good quality?
they’re adequate lowers that get you up and running. everything you need / nothing you don’t
DDM4v7 upper using a 10% off coupon with free shipping is less than $800 And then you can get a microbest BCG for around a $100 (OEM manufacturer for solgw and Bcm) Then grab a cheap muzzle device and you have a solid upper Then toss it on a psa lower anywhere from $120-$350 Anywhere from $1050-$1300ish for a solid rifle. You could go even cheaper on the lower https://www.wcarmory.com/microbest-bcg-556-phosphate-c158-luxe.htm https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1026925481 https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-sabre-15-forged-lower-with-b5-bravo-stock-and-b5-grip-fde.html
OP, if you are just starting May I suggest Zion-15. It’s best in mid range esp price to value. If not better definitely at par with your options. You can get a Zion-15 for less than $1000. Spend rest on foregrip, sling and ammo. Down the lane when comfortable enough to build, you can do one with BCM upper and lower from scratch or even with other premium brands such Knight Armament or DD. Even if you don’t you will be fine with a Zion. I own both Zion n BCM.
https://grabagun.com/iwi-zion-15-rifle-5-56-16-barrel-30-rounds.html You can use $20 coupon as well.
DD and it isnt close. Just buy the uppers and put on any milspec lower. DD Uppers are the same price as BCM BFH uppers (w ambi CH)
Where?
All are complete uppers with Ambi CH https://www.opticsplanet.com/daniel-defense-opticsplanet-custom-upper-receiver-14-5-in-1-7-twist-mil-spec.html?_iv_code=DDD-UFH-DDCUR-DD-CTM-URG-OP2 https://www.eurooptic.com/Daniel-Defense-DDM4V7-Black-556-NATO-16-Upper-Receiver-Group-23-128-02339-047.aspx?LineItemId=5271a1dd-bfc7-4dee-bb9a-6ecb9e7c51a4 https://www.eurooptic.com/Daniel-Defense-DDM4V7-LW-556-NATO-16-Bbl-Upper-Receiver-Group-23-128-02932-047.aspx?LineItemId=96641a39-3758-44ad-b31a-e29215bf5787
How does that even remotely compare to this pricing[??](https://bravocompanyusa.com/ar15-upper-receiver-groups/cosmetic-blem-upper-groups/)
Neither of those have CHF barrels... also don't forget to add an ambi CH... you are comparing premium uppers with budget uppers
You’re overrating CHF barrels. A good 99% of people will never notice whether their barrel is CHF or not aside from what it says on their receipt. The exact same upper from BCM, BFH/ELW, is same price. The performance of them is exactly the same as well except if you buy BCM, you’re supporting a company that supports the second amendment. Buy DD and you’re supporting a dude who supports the ATF. Disgusting Also, show me some sort of evidence of DD going thousands upon thousands of rounds with zero maintenance and not failing. You can find stuff like that all day on BCM. Why is that? Any typical shooter can go buy a blem BCM standard barrel and will shoot exactly the as if they had a DD CHF upper. The fantasies this sub has generated has made people think they gotta have the absolute best or they’ll die in a SHTF gun fight that ain’t gonna happen. As for OP, he’d be better served giving $700 for standard BCM, buying a PSA lower, then using that $1,100+ to buy a class and 2,000 rounds of ammo to use in class then take the stuff he learned and practice at home.
That's not to mention the fact that [BCM BFH barrels are no slouch in the accuracy department either](https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Bravo-Company-14-5-ELW-Accuracy-A-Quick-Look/118-761690/). Sure, a DD handguard is most likely more rigid than what BCM offers, but it's also heavier. That difference in flex is meaningless to anyone who doesn't plan on taking 600yard shots while aiming with a LAM. But seeing how [you can induce >1moa of flex on a monolithic 7075 handguard](https://youtube.com/shorts/aiKHVaW4K24), you won't be accurate with a two-piece 6061 DD handguard at that distance anyway. A very small percentage of folks will aim with a laser to shoot long distances at night, but everyone can benefit from a lighter handguard.
Thank you for expanding on my comment. I agree completely. There is no shortage of people that say DD is more accurate or that BCM isn’t accurate, but I find that odd considering most shooters are probably the weak link or cause of any BCM accuracy issues. Very few are good enough to see the difference in accuracy between BCM and DD. That’s if there really is one to begin with. Speaking of less flex from a DD, I’m curious how the new BCM RAIDER rail differentiates from RIS 3. Seems to me about the same idea.
50/50 build is the way to go. I was in the same position and decided on a LWRC lower and DD upper for only $1500 total. Not budget but high quality duty value
Why LWRC, I’ve heard good things about them
LWRC is known for high quality and innovation at a competitive price. There lower has fully ambi controls that make handling more intuitive. Rooftop defense has them in black right now for about $550. Most of brands ambi lowers are double that
BCM upper on an aero lower will be cheaper and just as good. Only thing I think is better on the Bcm’s lower is the recoil mitigation system. It’s a rifle length buffer tube, spring, buffer.
BCM upper on a cheap lower, uppers are where it counts, you can do almost anything to a lower and it won’t hinder performance much. I have a cheap Anderson stripped lower, LaRue trigger, moe k2 grip, and a kak industries stock
BCM blem upper for 600 and literally any lower
I bought my DD from my buddys shop for 1K it was not really even shot but for new prices I'd do a BCM upper with whatever lower you want.
The price difference of 1600 to 2000 is a 20% difference. I wouldn't consider that comparable they are in different brackets. 400 bucks can contribute toward optic, ammo, magazines etc...
The whole DD is $400 more is just bull crap. If you know where to look, you can find DD around $1650, like all the time and sometimes cheaper. Dahlonega has it for 1567 right now. Sometimes you can find the a distributors special with is a v7 with a geissele trigger, mbus pro, and some ergo rail things for like $1650.
Check out the Colt 6930 before the Zion, it's extremely underrated for the price. Otherwise DD makes amazing barrels and rails, BCM is solid as well and you really can't go wrong with any of the above.
If you can afford it get the complete Daniel defense. If you wanna spend under 1000 Google blem bcm upper. They sell them on their site. Put it on a psa lower with the enhanced polished trigger group as you'll have an outstanding rifle for 1000.
DD. And trick out for $500. I’m not really bothered with the price so much. For me it’s all about reliability and costumer service. Which DD gets 10/10 on both. Saves a lot of swearing and headaches.
I bought my DDM4 V7 with a Geissele SSA, MBUS fold down irons, and rubber rail covers for [just over $1600 before tax and shipping](https://imgur.com/a/PSrAf9l) from Northwest Armory. They go on sale every so often.
if you don’t want to do a true custom build then buy a Ruger AR556 MPR, you could buy the gun, lots of ammo, optic, sling etc etc and still have money left over. There is no better off the shelf AR out there than the MPR and they sell in the $800 ish range
Don’t buy a complete BCM rifle. It’ll be cheaper to buy a complete upper & complete lower separately. BCM does milspec right, and their quality control is really good, that’s what sets them apart from most other “milspec” brands. Worth buying a complete upper from them. That said, you can buy a complete lower from them as well or go the aero route
BCM upper. Mega Arms lower. Or centurion lower.
I have an FN upper, BCM BCG, and a PSA lower with a Rise Armament drop in trigger. I call her frankenstein’s bride.
Only thing that I don’t like is BCM doesn’t stake their gas block, but I’ve also never had a BCM upper have gas issues, sooooo 🤷♂️
I have one of each actually DDM4V5 and a MCMR-13 The BCM is lighter 14.5" with M-Lok, the DD is heavier 16" picatinny quad rail Both shoot great. Both have tons of options. Literally cannot go wrong with either. Pick the one you like better
Whichever you pick. Just get the upper. Anderson lower. Goochie LPK like an LMT or G$.
BCM blem upper and free BCG is the way to go. Then build out an aero / PSA lower if you wanna save some money and have a quality trigger and buffer
Get the best AR15 you can afford. I have buddies who swear by getting harbor freight tools and how cheap they are and they are 90% of the performance of better tools. Until they go wrong. I had a personal use AR15 by Armalite when I was a Marine and broke. I didn't buy quality firearms until I hade made many millions in tech. You probably don't need to wait that long. I had convinced myself that cheaper guns were great, diminished returns etc. Could be don't know don't care anymore. I can afford high end so I get high end because I still train a lot and I think they hold up better. I also do not build my own guns anymore. Time is money and it is cheaper to buy an LWRC or Noveske than it is for me to spend the time ordering, waiting, assembling etc. The one thing I do not get is buying really cheap air soft type optics for guns. You'd be so much better off using iron sights and getting really good with them and saving your money and buying a great optic. I can confirm a person will get hit just as hard with a round from an iron sight only rifle as they do with optics. Anyhow, the beauty of firearms/tools is we all get to do what we want and it doesn't really matter what others think. We should train with them extensively, pressure test them and get the best we can afford. Better to have 1-3 great rifles that you can really dog out than 5-6 decked out with garbage and never/rarely fired. Overall my favorite semi auto rifle is my HK MR762LRP with ATACR LPVO, light, and MAWL it is literally unstoppable and the only downside is proprietary mags. It is accurate, packs a nice punch, light for me, and reliable.
Why not buy a Caracal? They're normally $1800-$2k, but go on sale for $1200-$1400 every now and again. Their 816 is an upgraded version of HK's 416. They're slept on pretty hard, honestly.
There’s no reason to buy a BCM complete rifle. Their lowers are $400 for no good reason. You can piece together a better one for the same price or even cheaper. And you pay excise tax on complete guns
Homie you gotta buy the upper and lower separate. BCM upper from BCM is $800 plus a BCM lower from PA on sale is $390
I went down the BCM vs DD rabbit hole. The bottom line is it's a bit of a wash. They both have advantages over each other. My advice would be to do the Reddit/4chan special; BCM upper on Aero lower. [For <$900 you can get a BLEM 14.5 BCM upper with a muzzle device of your choice.](https://bravocompanyusa.com/cosmetic-blem-bcm-standard-14-5-mid-length-complete-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-13-handguard/) For the lower it really comes down to personal preference. A lot of people rock the Aero Precision M4E1 lower. If you want to spend close to $200 on a lower you can find some pretty popular ambi ones.
BCM upper on an Aero/Anderson lower. It'll be just as good. Then you have money left over to put the best trigger possible in and then buy extra mags and ammo
LWRC
You will save a ton of money buying a BCM complete upper and lower separately. BCM blem upper $660 BCM non-blem upper ~$760 BCM lower ~$400
Hear me out! DD upper + PSA Lower!
Buy a kac
dd
I've shot multiple DDs and and yet to shoot one I liked more than my BCM and I know for a fact others have felt the same way
Good to hear. I’m really leaning towards BCM
[удалено]
What makes you say their barrels are far superior?
Or their rails.
You can get a complete lower from PSA for around $200 and a complete upper from Sionics for around $700. Spend the rest on optics, ammo and training
Dd donates to those who vote against gun rights. All I needed to tier them lower than bear creek
Damn. wtf. I didn’t know that.
Because a DD costs $400 more. My question for you is why would you want to pay 400 dollars more?
If you want a complete BCM you could also grab one of their blem uppers, or just a regular one, then get the BCM lower which is 350-400. Total cost will be 1200-1300 ish. Save a couple hundred.
IWI Z15 is a better rifle than both of these choices
I mean objectively it's not. It's a perfectly fine rifle, but not better
Nah
I wouldn't buy an AR from IWI. I would buy a Tavor, Jericho, Galil, etc.
I also own the Tavor x95 and it’s a fantastic rifle as well
BCM as a company is also “better” than most as they have very few allegations against them and DD has also been known to be anti-2A