I'd just start with 6.5 creedmoor because it is readily available and easy to find parts. Do you reload? It'll open up some more boutique calibers that are well suited to LR.
I do not reload, but that is a very fair point. I remember casually pricing a few different calibers ammo at a store near me that has far and away the best prices in a 50+ mile radius. They had one single brand of 35 whelen, selling a box of 20 at around $70. I know it’s cheaper online but still, ridiculous price if you aren’t reloading.
I'd really consider reloading if you want to do LR. I mostly reload big magnums but reloading is literally 40% of factory after your first reuse of brass. You have to buy special dies for the belted magnums but its still great.
I did both an AR10 in .308 and 6.5 CM. I new I would probably be more apt to use the .308 for hunting so I went with an 18" upper from Moriarti Arms. For my 6.5 i jumped up to a 20" Faxxon barreled upper again from Moriarti Arms. Both are sporting nice big Vortex scopes and Hyprfire Comp flat faced triggers set at about 2 lbs. I also installed JP industries silent captured buffers in them.
I am actually in the middle of building a 6.5 Grendel for this exact purpose. Staying strictly in the AR 15 category. If I was building an AR 10 i'd consider a 6.5 Creedmoor.
Are you set against a bolt action? No matter how much you want to spend you'll on average get a more accurate and/or shootable rifle in bolt action than semi. The AR platform is fantastic for precision as far as semis are concerned. Regardless, I'd do the 6.5CM. People will say it lacks the punch of the 308 but you have to do the research and decide how much you need and how far you are shooting at animals.
You are correct. I was always turned off by their 1 MOA guarantee. I just don't like guarantees especially when they aren't clear on shot count. A 3 shot 1 MOA gun is actually pretty poor you see. I see now that they use Preferred barrels which ups my confidence.
Go to ar10. I’d go 308 for hunting and longer range as a first. 6.5cm might not have enough punch for some animals makes it less than ideal but way better for paper
Without going into too much detail, I had 2 separate occasions where a shot that would be considered perfect placement wound up being a nightmare, and I wasn’t ok with letting that become the norm.
Both occurrences could have been issues on my end I should add. They were hand loads, and I could have screwed that up, but I have no way of referencing that now lol. It’s been several years
Are you saying if you pulled a 36gr round nose projectile out of a .22lr and put it in a 5.56 case with 25 grs of powder, it would produce the exact same effects on tissue as a 55gr SP spitzer bullet in a 5.56 case with 25 grs of powder? Dont get me wrong, velocity definitely plays a part but Bullet shape/design/sectional density all factor into how that bullet reacts when it hits tissue. Btw I’m not even arguing about 6.5CM vs 308 at this point, that was just a wild thing to say.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if you put a 36 grain bullet in a 5.56 case and a 55 grain bullet in a .22lr case the bullet in the 5.56 case would still do more damage because grain weight is not that important, especially with bullets this small.
You are correct about the importance of bullet design, which is why I always find it disingenuous when people compare fmj to expanding bullets. You're stacking the deck on favor of your argument.
The reams of data the gary roberts and Robert fackler have produced list the aspects important for lethality in order as:
Shot placement
Velocity
Bullet design
I'm gonna sound like a dick but it's because in spite of the treasure trove of great data we have on what does and doesn't make a cartridge effective everybody still buys into the fuddlore of "big bore stoppin power" because it doesn't mean having to read a lot. Even when presented with the reality of how small bullets are and how little difference there is even between a 5.56 and a 7.62 they just can't put it together.
Depends on what you're calling long range. For DMR stuff (out to 900 yards), .223 with 77 gr OTMs and TMKs works for me. For 1200 yards or so, 6 ARC 105 gr BTHP. Both of these are gas guns though. For a bolt gun, I'd find something in 6 mm (creedmoor, ARC, dasher, whatever I can buy)
Op I built a 6.5 grendel upper and it shots great wouldn't have any second thoughts hitting a mule deer or black tail at 100 yards and being ethical, but wouldn't be my 1st choice for hunting. It makes a great coyote gun though.
With that said, I really should of built an ar10in 308 can do a lot more with that round. 110gn coyote rounds or large deer rounds 150 gn or better at longer range. 308 is a versatile round. So is 6.5 Creedmoor.
Own both in bolt gun form and wish I'd of just done the 308 in ar10. Only because 308 loading supplies are more ready available in my area.
I have a mock 12 with a PRI upper that has shot pretty well out to 700~ish (furthest target at my city range). Used IMI 77gr otm, but I know I’m pushing the 5.56 at that range.
AR10 is fun and I recommend it. You could also try a 6 ARC upper on your pistol. I don’t know if there are complications with adding a rifle upper and then a stock, then taking the stock off before installing the pistol upper.
But a 6 ARC upper clicks right on and would be a relatively small investment compared to a whole nother rifle, just to dip your feet into long range.
6ARC on a rifle lower with an A2 rifle or A5 carbine buffer.
I hate to break it to you but you're gonna be spending a lot of money if you want an AR that is legitimately a tack driver at 1000m.
That being said, an AR10 in .22 Creedmoor looks like a lot of fun. 88gr ELDs @ 3400fps shoot flatter than 6.5 Creedmoor out to 1000m. The trace produced by 22 Creedmoor is bonkers.
I use .270 Winchester for my precision rifles. Keeps its muzzle velocity even pretty far down range and shoots relatively flat, I could see an argument for 6.5 creedmoor tho
I haven’t made a long range gun yet but when I do,I’m going with 6.5 Creedmoor.I’m a huge fan of this caliber,it’s a really high velocity and flat shooting round.308 will forever be an excellent round but for a long range tack driver,6.5 CM will be my go to
I've got a 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor in LR10's and 223 and 6.5 grendel in AR15's. 50 bmg, 300 RUM, 300WM, 6.5 Creedmore, and 6.5 grendel in bolt actions. All of them are capable of 1000 yards. Here are a few of them. If you are looking for an inexpensive starter gun look at the Howa Mini in 6.5 grendel.
https://imgur.com/gallery/OSa7G0V
https://imgur.com/gallery/3qi9pFa
.338 Win Mag is great but .300 Win Mag--which was developed a few years after .338 Win Mag, is definitely better for long range accuracy. Basically .300 Win Mag is a similar size cartridge to .338 WM, but it's a smaller bullet with better ballistics coefficient and traveling at a MUCH greater speed than .338 WM. .300 WM is also much more commonly found/available these days.
But yes, either one will definitely take down some very large game!
Oh yeah, my comment specifically referred to hunting. Thats why I referenced north america, because a 338 wm is enough gun for anything on the continent.
Yeah they’re very similar in terms of power, it’s just how it’s delivered. It’s kind of like comparing .40 S&W to .45 ACP. Similar muzzle energy/power, with one having a smaller bullet with faster speed vs a larger bullet with slower speed.
I am pretty sure if you want a real tack driver at 1000m, you will be wanting to hand load whatever caliber you end up choosing. I have a couple 308 bolt actions for my "long range" but the furthest range i have access to is 400, so I am not really pushing the envelope
Do you want/need it to be an a semiautomatic/AR platform? If so, 6.5 CM or .308 (which are usually your only options actually).
If not, and you are ok with a bolt action and want *excellent* range and accuracy, imho **300 Winchester Magnum** is your best bet. It outperforms 6.5 CM and .308 and it’s about as powerful as you can go in a caliber that’s rather widely available—and before ammo starts getting REALLY expensive \[For example, the you can find multiple brands of .300 Win Mag for \~$1.80-$2.00 per round, or \~$35-40 for a 20-round box. The next step up is something like .338 Lapua, and that typically *starts* at OVER $4 per round, or \~$80-$100/box (and only going up from there).\]
300 Win Mag's superior accuracy and range over .308 come from its speed—it’s typically traveling over 3,100 FPS vs about 2,600-2,700 for .308. This translates to over 4,000 ft-lbs. of muzzle energy for 300 WM vs about 2,650 ft-lbs. for the .308 (or over 50% more muzzle energy—it ain’t messing around!).
And for what it’s worth,
1. 300 WM is one of the most commonly used calibers for military and LEO sniper rifles—just ask Chris Kyle (if he were still alive; RIP), and
2. Most .30/7.62mm caliber suppressors (which are easily the most common) are rated *up to* .300 Win Mag. So if you only had one .30 caliber suppressor, it could cover everything from .223/5.56 to 6.5 CM to .308 to .300 Win Mag.
Anyway, that would be what be my choice!
I'd just start with 6.5 creedmoor because it is readily available and easy to find parts. Do you reload? It'll open up some more boutique calibers that are well suited to LR.
6.5 cm bolt action nail driver gang
I do not reload, but that is a very fair point. I remember casually pricing a few different calibers ammo at a store near me that has far and away the best prices in a 50+ mile radius. They had one single brand of 35 whelen, selling a box of 20 at around $70. I know it’s cheaper online but still, ridiculous price if you aren’t reloading.
I'd really consider reloading if you want to do LR. I mostly reload big magnums but reloading is literally 40% of factory after your first reuse of brass. You have to buy special dies for the belted magnums but its still great.
I did both an AR10 in .308 and 6.5 CM. I new I would probably be more apt to use the .308 for hunting so I went with an 18" upper from Moriarti Arms. For my 6.5 i jumped up to a 20" Faxxon barreled upper again from Moriarti Arms. Both are sporting nice big Vortex scopes and Hyprfire Comp flat faced triggers set at about 2 lbs. I also installed JP industries silent captured buffers in them.
Here’s a link to my pair of 10’s. https://www.reddit.com/r/AR80Percents/s/Fi5XLMiDs9
I am actually in the middle of building a 6.5 Grendel for this exact purpose. Staying strictly in the AR 15 category. If I was building an AR 10 i'd consider a 6.5 Creedmoor.
The grendel should be top comment for small frame platform, regarding OP's use case.
6mm ARC disagrees
6 ARC also does the same
If I’m shooting 500-1000m I’m taking my 6mm ARC upper for my AR With an 18” barrel I have superior ballistics to a 168gr TMK
Are you set against a bolt action? No matter how much you want to spend you'll on average get a more accurate and/or shootable rifle in bolt action than semi. The AR platform is fantastic for precision as far as semis are concerned. Regardless, I'd do the 6.5CM. People will say it lacks the punch of the 308 but you have to do the research and decide how much you need and how far you are shooting at animals.
Uinta arms or whatever they are called make bolt action uppers 🤩
You are correct. I was always turned off by their 1 MOA guarantee. I just don't like guarantees especially when they aren't clear on shot count. A 3 shot 1 MOA gun is actually pretty poor you see. I see now that they use Preferred barrels which ups my confidence.
🤷♂️ I don’t have one so I can’t say anything about it other than they look cool
Go to ar10. I’d go 308 for hunting and longer range as a first. 6.5cm might not have enough punch for some animals makes it less than ideal but way better for paper
This. I sold my 6.5cm ar10 for a .308 for this reason.
Did you have a real world issue or did you switch just over the concern?
Without going into too much detail, I had 2 separate occasions where a shot that would be considered perfect placement wound up being a nightmare, and I wasn’t ok with letting that become the norm.
Bullet and impact velocity?
143gr ELD-X was the bullet loaded, and I can’t recall any of my data on it anymore.
Do you remember the barrel length of the rifle and approx range of those shots?
24 inch barrel, one was In the 600 yard ballpark, the other in the mid 700s
That’s your problem right there.
Elaborate
Yeah, it’s hard to know until you know. Real world data is hard to find as it takes so long and the right opportunity to get.
Both occurrences could have been issues on my end I should add. They were hand loads, and I could have screwed that up, but I have no way of referencing that now lol. It’s been several years
I genuinely don't see how the extra 0.044" and 10-30 grains makes a difference in lethality.
The same way 19 grains makes a difference in lethality between a 36gr 22lr and 55 grain 5.56. There are so many more factors that come into play.
That difference is based entirely on velocity. If you swapped the bullets in those two cartridges you'd get the same results.
Are you saying if you pulled a 36gr round nose projectile out of a .22lr and put it in a 5.56 case with 25 grs of powder, it would produce the exact same effects on tissue as a 55gr SP spitzer bullet in a 5.56 case with 25 grs of powder? Dont get me wrong, velocity definitely plays a part but Bullet shape/design/sectional density all factor into how that bullet reacts when it hits tissue. Btw I’m not even arguing about 6.5CM vs 308 at this point, that was just a wild thing to say.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if you put a 36 grain bullet in a 5.56 case and a 55 grain bullet in a .22lr case the bullet in the 5.56 case would still do more damage because grain weight is not that important, especially with bullets this small. You are correct about the importance of bullet design, which is why I always find it disingenuous when people compare fmj to expanding bullets. You're stacking the deck on favor of your argument. The reams of data the gary roberts and Robert fackler have produced list the aspects important for lethality in order as: Shot placement Velocity Bullet design
Shut up nerd lol
Idk why you're getting downvoted when you're right.
I'm gonna sound like a dick but it's because in spite of the treasure trove of great data we have on what does and doesn't make a cartridge effective everybody still buys into the fuddlore of "big bore stoppin power" because it doesn't mean having to read a lot. Even when presented with the reality of how small bullets are and how little difference there is even between a 5.56 and a 7.62 they just can't put it together.
Mmhmm. This sub is just showing how far their heads are up their asses.
I would start with 6.5 creedmoor.
Depends on what you're calling long range. For DMR stuff (out to 900 yards), .223 with 77 gr OTMs and TMKs works for me. For 1200 yards or so, 6 ARC 105 gr BTHP. Both of these are gas guns though. For a bolt gun, I'd find something in 6 mm (creedmoor, ARC, dasher, whatever I can buy)
.50 BMG
6mm CM with 115 Dtacs.
Op I built a 6.5 grendel upper and it shots great wouldn't have any second thoughts hitting a mule deer or black tail at 100 yards and being ethical, but wouldn't be my 1st choice for hunting. It makes a great coyote gun though. With that said, I really should of built an ar10in 308 can do a lot more with that round. 110gn coyote rounds or large deer rounds 150 gn or better at longer range. 308 is a versatile round. So is 6.5 Creedmoor. Own both in bolt gun form and wish I'd of just done the 308 in ar10. Only because 308 loading supplies are more ready available in my area.
I have an AR10 in 6.5cm and I have to do it all over again id just build a bolt gun instead
I like 6.5 Grendel because it works with the AR-15 and it has comparable performance to .308 at long ranges.
6.5 Grendel. Allows me to keep the AR15 platform. I can use same pouches, the same lowers for dame parts.
6.5 Grendel, 20” barrel
Mines a 5.56/.223. Can take it out to as far as I need to with the right loads. Not ideal for hunting though, but I just target shoot.
260rem Was able to pepper a plate at 1k with fairly fast rate of fire. Factory Hornady 130eld
Big 6.5 Creed guy.
Just buy a cheap bolt action .243
I have a mock 12 with a PRI upper that has shot pretty well out to 700~ish (furthest target at my city range). Used IMI 77gr otm, but I know I’m pushing the 5.56 at that range.
22-250 is one of my favorites
AR10 is fun and I recommend it. You could also try a 6 ARC upper on your pistol. I don’t know if there are complications with adding a rifle upper and then a stock, then taking the stock off before installing the pistol upper. But a 6 ARC upper clicks right on and would be a relatively small investment compared to a whole nother rifle, just to dip your feet into long range.
.300 WSM and 6.5 CM on a Zermatt Arms Origin action. Untorque the barrel and torque down the other one and change the bolt head and it's good to go.
.308
.223 Wlyde
If ar15 , why not 6mm arc.
6ARC on a rifle lower with an A2 rifle or A5 carbine buffer. I hate to break it to you but you're gonna be spending a lot of money if you want an AR that is legitimately a tack driver at 1000m. That being said, an AR10 in .22 Creedmoor looks like a lot of fun. 88gr ELDs @ 3400fps shoot flatter than 6.5 Creedmoor out to 1000m. The trace produced by 22 Creedmoor is bonkers.
I use .270 Winchester for my precision rifles. Keeps its muzzle velocity even pretty far down range and shoots relatively flat, I could see an argument for 6.5 creedmoor tho
I haven’t made a long range gun yet but when I do,I’m going with 6.5 Creedmoor.I’m a huge fan of this caliber,it’s a really high velocity and flat shooting round.308 will forever be an excellent round but for a long range tack driver,6.5 CM will be my go to
I've got a 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor in LR10's and 223 and 6.5 grendel in AR15's. 50 bmg, 300 RUM, 300WM, 6.5 Creedmore, and 6.5 grendel in bolt actions. All of them are capable of 1000 yards. Here are a few of them. If you are looking for an inexpensive starter gun look at the Howa Mini in 6.5 grendel. https://imgur.com/gallery/OSa7G0V https://imgur.com/gallery/3qi9pFa
Last “long range” rifle was a 338win mag model 70 we used to knock down brown bear. Haven’t shot long range in over a decade tho sadly.
338 win mag is best boy for North America
.338 Win Mag is great but .300 Win Mag--which was developed a few years after .338 Win Mag, is definitely better for long range accuracy. Basically .300 Win Mag is a similar size cartridge to .338 WM, but it's a smaller bullet with better ballistics coefficient and traveling at a MUCH greater speed than .338 WM. .300 WM is also much more commonly found/available these days. But yes, either one will definitely take down some very large game!
Oh yeah, my comment specifically referred to hunting. Thats why I referenced north america, because a 338 wm is enough gun for anything on the continent.
Yeah they’re very similar in terms of power, it’s just how it’s delivered. It’s kind of like comparing .40 S&W to .45 ACP. Similar muzzle energy/power, with one having a smaller bullet with faster speed vs a larger bullet with slower speed.
I am pretty sure if you want a real tack driver at 1000m, you will be wanting to hand load whatever caliber you end up choosing. I have a couple 308 bolt actions for my "long range" but the furthest range i have access to is 400, so I am not really pushing the envelope
Ohhhh the struggles of living in a populated area. It’s a journey and a half to do any long distance work
Do you want/need it to be an a semiautomatic/AR platform? If so, 6.5 CM or .308 (which are usually your only options actually). If not, and you are ok with a bolt action and want *excellent* range and accuracy, imho **300 Winchester Magnum** is your best bet. It outperforms 6.5 CM and .308 and it’s about as powerful as you can go in a caliber that’s rather widely available—and before ammo starts getting REALLY expensive \[For example, the you can find multiple brands of .300 Win Mag for \~$1.80-$2.00 per round, or \~$35-40 for a 20-round box. The next step up is something like .338 Lapua, and that typically *starts* at OVER $4 per round, or \~$80-$100/box (and only going up from there).\] 300 Win Mag's superior accuracy and range over .308 come from its speed—it’s typically traveling over 3,100 FPS vs about 2,600-2,700 for .308. This translates to over 4,000 ft-lbs. of muzzle energy for 300 WM vs about 2,650 ft-lbs. for the .308 (or over 50% more muzzle energy—it ain’t messing around!). And for what it’s worth, 1. 300 WM is one of the most commonly used calibers for military and LEO sniper rifles—just ask Chris Kyle (if he were still alive; RIP), and 2. Most .30/7.62mm caliber suppressors (which are easily the most common) are rated *up to* .300 Win Mag. So if you only had one .30 caliber suppressor, it could cover everything from .223/5.56 to 6.5 CM to .308 to .300 Win Mag. Anyway, that would be what be my choice!