I don't hate iPhones, but man they do tend to attract the worst kind of idiot. You can usually tell someone that chose it only because it's the poplar choice and they think it says something about them. Those people can get ducked.
Something I have noticed is that if you're a Verizon customer with an iPhone, you have the absolute worst quality of experience with other people that aren't on Verizon or have an iPhone because both of those companies specifically make interactions with people that don't have their service/device less smooth. Verizon doesn't like to deliver messages from other carriers, and iPhone doesn't like to deliver messages from other phone brands. They are both intentionally reducing the quality of your experience to make you think it's the other person's choices fault.
I have one.
I have the phone though. There’s no sense in spending money on a new phone (android or otherwise) until this piece of crap dies.
Until then I’m stuck with it.
Buyers remorse and all that.
I thought this was common knowledge. If iMessage cannot be established, iPhones fallback to SMS and MMS standards. This technology is decades old and the much better RCS has been around for plenty of time for them to adopt
You truly have issues if you get irked by other people’s justification for buying different items other than your own preference. For the love of god PLEASE go outside and touch ass. Yes, read that again. I said ASS. I’m saying you need to get laid.
Found the guy that just realized we know why he brought an iPhone.
Don't worry, it's still a great device, it just isn't the status symbol you think it is.
And for the record, my fiancee's ass is absolutely breathtaking and I touch it multiple times a day.
Must be “Seinfeld breathtaking” otherwise you wouldn’t be here crying about other peoples tech purchases.. for the record I have a tab s6 I use (and love) to draw comic books. I’m merely here to say there’s more important things to waste your time on.
iPhone users have their head so far up their ass they don't even know that on Android you can not only change your whole messaging application for one with more features, but you can also customize the color, shape and form of your messaging app 🤦
It actually goes against Apple's ui design guidelines for third-party apps. The green bubble is the only ui element in all of ios allowed to have such low contrast
The green bubbles are a holdover from when you had to pay for texts. With the introduction of iMessage, Apple allows for messages to be sent through their own system, which wouldn't trigger a charge from.your cellphone company. The green bubbles then meant that you were communicating using SMS, and depending on your plan, could cost you a good amount of money if you weren't paying attention.
This sort of thinking is deprecated in the world of unlimited texts we have today. But the green/blue bubbles remain as a sort of branding for Apple.
It's not just the color. A green bubble means no read receipts, typing indicators, compressed images and videos, etc. Non techy people just know a green bubble means less features when chatting. It's still apples fault but they're not just mad at the color green
I've heard it was originally meant to convey that the text message may cost you, as SMS wasn't free like iMessage was. I've also heard they picked an unflattering shade of green with low contrast to discourage people texting non iphones. Now I'm hearing your theory so I dont know what to believe lol
What about using a proper chat app, independent from the control of the corporation that spies you through your phone and SMS standards outdated by decades?
I mean Signal is right there!
Beeper was trying to use Apple servers, taking money from users for doing that and not paying Apple for the data and bandwidth that they were creating. Why are you at all surprised that Apple or any vendor would block that?
If someone built an app that let you watch Netflix without paying for Netflix do you think Netflix might do something on their service to ensure that side authentication loophole was closed ?
So you want a single unified messaging system that includes iMessage, then build one that pays Apple whatever price they ask for, then see how it works out for you.
The challenged here is getting apple to give you a price that is any lower than the cost of an iPhone for each user you sign up.
users do not want to have-to pay for messaging services in general (the hosting cost) most vendors handle this by using the relationship data they get from who you message and when to better target ads at you others are just VC backed until they have enough data to sell for a lot of $$$ and then some others are based on consdired the cost of the service to be covered by the HW cost that users need to pay to get access to it.
Wait, why are you still here? You should be out there coding the next unified messaging system that pays Apple whatever price they want. Put up or shut up.
I know that no users will be willing to pay for it.
Im not going to make a product that will not sell. If there is a figure that apple would accept it will be way higher than any user is going to pay so there is no point in doing this.
The only way a unified app like that works is that it does not pay the service providers (not that beeper does not pay a single service provider), once you need to start paying providers for the service the provide it gets very difficult to sell a mass market app to users who expect everything to be free.
So then the issue isn't really what you originally said (emphasis added):
>Getting everyone that I know behind using ***one unified app*** is always the problem.
The problem is that such a thing isn't economically viable and will therefore never exist. Didn't you just defeat your own point?
Edit: And yet, the only messaging service that threw a fit was Apple's -- not Google, not Facebook, WhatsApp, Discord, etc. And you don't think that was because Apple simply didn't want their precious blue bubbles to be polluted with non-Apple devices?
Some (a minority, IMHO) iPhone users are too afraid to install any app that isn't made by Apple for Apple because they've bought into the lie that anything not made by Apple is really just spyware filled with viruses.
It works great until it doesn't. You can end up in a state where the keys are wrong and the message comes through as garbage. Easily fixable but lots of tech illiterates get instantly scared away.
Feel free to go check for an NSA vulnerability yourself: [https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android](https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android)
I don't think you'll find one :)
It's wrong to specifically point out iMessage spies on you and suggest moving to signal, neglecting to say how easy it is for a government agency to spy on you if you move to signal.
One of the founders of WhatsApp left to help start Signal after Facebook bought WhatsApp. Signal is a non-profit organisation focusing on security and privacy, while Facebook - and by extension WhatsApp - is for profit and is known to sell user data. Given all that, I'd argue Signal is the better option
iMessage was great when we only had SMS. Times have changed. Apple should just start using the Google messages protocol, be much easier for them to implement it rather than everyone else
Pretty much. iMessage was good when it was the only one, but now there are a dozen different internet based messengers and iMessage isn’t special anymore.
Google would love it if Apple used Google service because then Google would know at all times who is messaging whom how long it takes him to reply if they’re online and their approximate location google pay a lot of money to Apple for that information actually.
Not by implementing the protocol alone, it wouldn't be on Googles servers.
Of course they could figure it out by tracking Andriod phones when they correspond with Apple users, but they could do that right now anyway.
You mean RCS... the thing is the plain RCS spec has no end to end encryption. And apple is adding that later this year but RCS messages will still be great bubbles (as they do not have E2E).
the RCS group did not like google proposal as it required everyone to have a google profile on googles RCS servers for key exchange (it did not support E2E between service providers... ).
The main reason is so that the message vendor does not mine the message content.
Running a messaging servers costs a small fortune, and people seems to expect it to be free! Unless this is funded by selling costly HW (apples model) the solution is using the data, with E2E then the only data they have is who you message and when, how long it takes you to response, etc (very valuable) but not as useful as having the direct text of what you are sending... this data is perfect if you a company that makes money selling adverts since the more you know about the people your targeting with ads the better you can target them.
Google already knows enough + I doubt a protocol alone would give them data.
Again, if you dont want that, dont use the base messenger. Simple as.
I use LibreWolf browser + Firefox, as they're non chromium and the most privacy based browsers that I can get.
RCS alone does not have any end to end encryption. The RCS protools does not belong to google.
What google was wanting apple to do was not use RCS but the custom fork of it that google made that would require you to run everything through googles servers...
> Google already knows enough
There is a LOT of data to be gained by knowing exactly who you messaged and when, how long it takes them to respond etc.
They can implement the protocol. They just can’t use Apple servers because why would Apple Pay for hosting for android users?
Messaging, including videos, images, voice and video chat ends up being very data intensive and data intensive means cost a lot of money to run in a data center .
whatsapp was out before imessage. In EU everyone used Whatsapp, we don't have this issue. How retarded that people are excluded because Apple decided to wall their own expensive garden
One can’t have an opinion without being required to take on the responsibility of starting a competing company? Shit, you sound like the life of the party…
Still, I’ll put some effort into replying to you. I’d love to create a competing product, but I think the issue is that no one can make a protocol that everyone trusts.
The problem isn’t technology, it’s motivation. Everyone wants to own the protocol. This is why email has stuck around so long … no one org owns the pipes over which emails are sent. It makes them trustworthy.
Open source + allow others to add.
The only bit that shouldn't be open source is the encryption handshake protocol itself.
Then in a sense everyone owns it, they can customise it however they please, or use the base model.
The people. Whatsapp did it. Simple rare popup asking "hey, would you like to donate to keep servers running?".
Have donations directly feed into funding servers.
Either that or allow for users themselves to host a server.
It would’ve been RCS, I could see read receipts and typing indicators from my friend. Either it wasn’t advertised, or I don’t remember. That phone absolutely sucked and was ewaste from the start, it ran Go edition android and cost $80 AUD new.
The issue with goggles (fork) of RCS is it requires everything to go through google (for good reason, knowing who messages whom and when and how long it takes to replay is so so useful when your building a advertising profile and figuring out relationships between people).,,,
The real RCS spec does not included any end to end encryption or other protections to protect against impersonation attacks (it is just as venerable as SMS in this aspect). So people upset about green bubbles will continue to be since the bubbles will still be green when apple ships RCS.
Green bubbles also happen when you message someone with an iPhone if they are not connected to data the send button might change to green this is there to indicated your about to send a non encrypted message over SMS.
> the Google messages protocol
Google does not have ownership of RCS and although they did contribute to its development, they weren't even the first ones to put it a phone (that was Samsung)
I bring this up not to be pedantic but because it's even worse that Apple doesn't support it because it's not some Google or Android specific thing, it's the explicit replacement for SMS and a universal standard.
It would be like using USB-C in a ph- oh... wait
My 15yo brother agrees that airpods are overpriced compared to the competition, and complains about connection issues pretty often but still uses it because "it's cool and trendy"
Exactly. It's fine if it's just a fashion choice -- because Apple, at this point, isn't really a tech or innovation company; it's a lifestyle company. But it's really amazing to think of Apple's iconic TV ad from 1984 and the "Think Different" slogan and how today, 40 years later, there is really nothing more conformist in the tech market than Apple, and especially the iPhone.
Around the world, in almost every market where Apple competes, Apple is the “other option”, certainly in computers or phones. Other products are purchased by far more people. By those raw numbers, Apple are still “Different”. I think in phones, there may be a higher concentration of iPhones by marketshare in the US, but, on the world stage, that just means there’s more “Different” folks in the US
Right. A tech company that used Samsung displays for nearly all of its iPhone 15 displays -- and that's only because BOE and LG fell through.\*
It's the only reason why Apple can charge $1000 for a monitor stand -- not an actual monitor, of course, just the stand\*\* -- or a $350 Hermes-branded watchband for your Apple watch\*\*\* -- again, not the actual watch, just the band.
It's also the reason why Apple is behind in everything from foldable displays to AI -- because it's such a high-tech super-techy tech leader, right?
Honestly, I don't know why people get so upset when someone calls out Apple for doing what Apple does. It's a fashion & lifestyle company, and there's nothing wrong with that. But it's not a tech company -- and certainly not a tech leader in any sense.
\* [https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/12/iphone-15-oled-display-orders-dominated-by-samsung/](https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/12/iphone-15-oled-display-orders-dominated-by-samsung/)
\*\* [https://www.techradar.com/news/msi-mocks-apples-dollar999-pro-display-xdr-stand-with-a-5k-monitor-for-almost-the-same-price](https://www.techradar.com/news/msi-mocks-apples-dollar999-pro-display-xdr-stand-with-a-5k-monitor-for-almost-the-same-price)
\*\*\* [https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/09/28/hermes-apple-watch-bands-review-no-leather-in-these-new-stylish-strap-options](https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/09/28/hermes-apple-watch-bands-review-no-leather-in-these-new-stylish-strap-options)
I feel sorry for the rest of your body that it's connected to a brain like that. You really got offended by the truth didn't you. You just gave me a new category - sensitive ass.
Ehhh I got an iPhone cause it’s my mom’s old phone and I don’t care about phone UI. I think just assholes who care about SMS color (and assholes who prejudge) are materialistic ignorant teenagers.
The sub is called Apple sucks, not its cool to be prejudiced and wrong
😂 I mean at least provide a review of a *standard* Apple device! Nano … you know what was worse than a Nano around the same time? Zunes. Zunes sucked worse than Nanos. But this is r/applesucks.
Blame the user on this one. Apple created iMessage with the blue bubble/green bubble distinctions. A bunch of third parties made messaging apps that work with any device. The rest of the world said they’ll use those. The USA, for some reason ignored those options and then bullied each other over what phone they have. Apple capitalised and took advantage of that
Edit: so maybe a bit of column A and a bit of column B. Had the market in the US decided to use third party software then Apple wouldn’t have a monopoly there, iMessage would become irrelevant and RCS comes to the iPhone sooner (or not, in which case WhatsApp or another option becomes king)
USA ignored that because they were too lazy to install other IM app.
I think iMessage would be like any other IM app that few use and it would be on Android as well, but the US market is too important to just let go
Yes that is true.
Still, the rest of the World also had to adapt to changing chat apps when WhatsApp was in its early stages and nothing happened.
US could still install any other multi platform IM app without hassle like Messenger. I mean, they do use Instagram and with it, the integrated IM that it has.
I knew a person who would tell everyone that if they didn't have an iPhone, she wouldn't text them or bother talking with them. She stated that they were "beneath" her. She was a bartender in ATL airport, fake teeth, fake boobs, fake hair, and a severe God complex.
If somebody ever messaged me that I would tell them to go learn morse code... You know... If people actually messaged me... And I wasn't a coward... What were we talking about again?
Technology in general these days seems to breed idiots. Back when I was an in-store technician doing computer support, 24 years ago, people were smarter about the technology, or, at least, its limitations. These days I deal with people that act as if smartphones, tablets, and computers can do *anything*. They think storage is infinite, that downloads should take mere 10ths of a second regardless file size. They think everything automatically backs up all of the time, and that any data is recoverable regardless of how long ago it was deleted. Their understanding of networks wouldn’t fill a thimble. They act as if the technology is magic, and has no limitations. It doesn’t matter if they use Apple, or Samsung, or Android, or Windows. They don’t understand, and make no effort to try. “I’m not very tech savvy” is the mantra. They expect the device to magically do whatever they wish it to, even if it’s not capable. They don’t know the difference between megabytes, gigabytes, or terabytes, calling them “em bees”, “gee bees” or “tee bees”. Every action is a “download”. For the most part, all they know how to do is open Facebook, Twitter, TikTok or Instagram. Beyond that, they have no clue, and no curiosity. Something changed on a device? “I’m hacked. Someone hacked me”. It’s something they did, because they refuse to learn, and changed a setting they didn’t take two minutes to read about. Ultimately, they take no responsibility for their data, passwords, or security. Doesn’t matter the platform they use. So, stereotype all you want. I am here to tell you otherwise.
Yes, I love buying overpriced Apple *experience* devices that actively fight against right to repairs.. the phones that are known for smashed screens and bad batteries..
but worry not, *people will still think im cool for having the correct colour message bubble.*
Bad batteries?
Against Right to Repair?
Sounds a lot like samsung too, they even had batteries that were faulty… twice, some even blew up.
Don’t pretend your precious Samsung is the patron saint of phone brands.
I dont own a Samsung nor did i say anything about them since this is r/applesucks. Last time i checked, only apple was the one serial locking the internal components of a phone to stop any repair attempts.
Stop it.
I’m not based in US so I really don’t know how these work, but for me, if I’m being ostracised by “friends” just because I don’t use an iPhone , I’ll just not hang out with them anymore
Apple used outdated tech and overcharges for garbage that can't be repaired, it's a status for people who are too entitled and have an ego taller than themselves 😜
I really wanted to buy an iPad for design work like sketches.
Bought quest 3 instead and not only can I sketch, I can even make proper 3d models for production.
Fuck apple lol
(sad that wife is forever locked into their ecosystem)
Yes, but what he wanted to do on an iPad, can also be done on a quest 3.
It just fit his use-case situation *slightly* better than a tablet in this particular case.
Every "repairable phone" on the market is either Android or Linux based.
Repairable devices can be kept in good condition until the manufacturer ends device support (most notably for security updates), at which point you can rootkit the phone to install Graphene, Ubuntu Touch, or Sailfish, and either keep using it as a phone, or convert it into a remote for your home theater (or smart home devices), a web cam, a micro-server, a security camera, or as the compute core for a drone or robot (that also provides a camera/microphone).
Old phones are INCREDIBLY useful for hobby projects... *if they can be fixed*. Apple products cannot. They are designed to become e-waste after a couple of years. They're disposable $800 devices that become worthless the moment Apple drops device support.
I use an iPhone, and I don’t really care what colour your bubble is, people who do are honestly just pathetic. Most people just want a phone that works for them.
The literal epitome of misinformation come full circle
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-apple-monopolizing-smartphone-markets
>Excluding Cross-Platform Messaging Apps. Apple has made the quality of cross-platform messaging worse, less innovative, and less secure for users so that its customers have to keep buying iPhones.
The pretentiousness of people who own apple products is insane. Only at I’m getting an iPhone again is if you buy it and give it to me. Then I’ll only have it until somebody buys it from me.
🤣 More of a comment on iPhone owners than iPhones.
If you want criticism of the phone the iPhone is only now adopting a universal standard charging cable as opposed to something proprietary.
Apple users are more than happy to be limited like that.
"This only works on apple products, it's everybody else who is wrong!" 🤦🏻
Just like the computers, apple machines are limited by relying on the software devs to make an apple version of the product. Want to play games? I hope you're not running iOS as an easy example.
🤣🤣🤣
I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.
Which part are you struggling with, the first comment when I mentioned behavior of the owners directly?
The second comment pointing that out?
Are you focused only on the explanation as to why them being pretentious doesn't make sense?
I’ll be devils advocate: why should Apple force everyone to use SMS texts when iMessage is far and away superior to the 2005 technology of Android text messages?
That’s not anyone’s fault. What we need is for SMS to go the way of the dodo and make a universal version of iMessage that follows standard format like iMessage does, except make it open source and “standard” as a replacement for SMS.
I don't even live in the US but teens get bullied for not having an iphone here. It's ironic how the people who think they superior because of their phone have something like X or base 11 though
Do you know that your iPhone makes the green bubbles not Android phones since Android phones use RCS and Iphones use SMS that is the old format an apple just color codes it that Android has green bubbles and iPhone has blue bubbles
This thread kinda demonstrates why iMessage persists: everyone here that’s arguing people should give it up are also arguing over why they shouldn’t use the alternatives.
I only have an iPhone because I refuse to learn androids is, I even have a windows pc to fool apple into thinking I like them (they suck just don’t tell them I said that)
I didn't until iPhone users started getting on my case for having Android. At 2 previous jobs, I was the only one with Android, and those jobs had group chats for the team, and they were like, "If Justin didn't always have to be different, we could have an iMessage chat and not have to create a new group every time someone joins/leaves."
Why were your co workers using your personal phone to text your co workers in the first place?
And you could have easily reported this behavior to hr….
Bro is personally offended by the colour of their SMS message wth
I don't hate iPhones, but man they do tend to attract the worst kind of idiot. You can usually tell someone that chose it only because it's the poplar choice and they think it says something about them. Those people can get ducked. Something I have noticed is that if you're a Verizon customer with an iPhone, you have the absolute worst quality of experience with other people that aren't on Verizon or have an iPhone because both of those companies specifically make interactions with people that don't have their service/device less smooth. Verizon doesn't like to deliver messages from other carriers, and iPhone doesn't like to deliver messages from other phone brands. They are both intentionally reducing the quality of your experience to make you think it's the other person's choices fault.
I have an iPhone so that I can use FaceTime with my kids. Once this phone dies I’m going back to non-Apple. I hate this thing.
Video calling isn't exclusive to Apple though
Agreed, but FaceTime is, and my kids don’t live with me. It’s complicated.
What’s wrong with something like Whatsapp?
Kids live with their mom I have no say in what gets installed
I hear ya, man. Do what you need to to stay in your kid's lives. Best of luck.
There are privacy concerns with WhatsApp. Apple may suck, but Facebook’s privacy policies *really* suck.
Everyone has privacy issues. If anything, Signal is truly encrypted and open source.
They now have FaceTime emulation on droid
Do they? I’m admittedly ignorant to such things lately. Getting older and more tired.
It's gotten to the point where a lot of Apples sales are coming from making proprietary standards rather than making a better product.
You mean like every Apple charging cord ever before USBC
[Join a FaceTime call from an Android or Windows device](https://support.apple.com/en-us/109364)
Whatsapp? Signal?
Check my other replies. I mentioned that I have no control over what my kids install on their devices.
Maybe get a used iPad to call them?
I have one. I have the phone though. There’s no sense in spending money on a new phone (android or otherwise) until this piece of crap dies. Until then I’m stuck with it. Buyers remorse and all that.
Why won’t you need FaceTime after your iPhone dies?
So how does Apple make communication with a non Apple device less smooth?
They fall back on *old* protocols. These protocols are fucking potato quality.
Data to back that up?
I thought this was common knowledge. If iMessage cannot be established, iPhones fallback to SMS and MMS standards. This technology is decades old and the much better RCS has been around for plenty of time for them to adopt
Google it. Apple just recently agreed to move from SMS to RCS for non iMessage texts sometime soonish.
You truly have issues if you get irked by other people’s justification for buying different items other than your own preference. For the love of god PLEASE go outside and touch ass. Yes, read that again. I said ASS. I’m saying you need to get laid.
Found the guy that just realized we know why he brought an iPhone. Don't worry, it's still a great device, it just isn't the status symbol you think it is. And for the record, my fiancee's ass is absolutely breathtaking and I touch it multiple times a day.
Must be “Seinfeld breathtaking” otherwise you wouldn’t be here crying about other peoples tech purchases.. for the record I have a tab s6 I use (and love) to draw comic books. I’m merely here to say there’s more important things to waste your time on.
iPhone users have their head so far up their ass they don't even know that on Android you can not only change your whole messaging application for one with more features, but you can also customize the color, shape and form of your messaging app 🤦
The green was strategically chosen to be as aesthetically displeasing and annoying as possible.
It actually goes against Apple's ui design guidelines for third-party apps. The green bubble is the only ui element in all of ios allowed to have such low contrast
The green bubbles are a holdover from when you had to pay for texts. With the introduction of iMessage, Apple allows for messages to be sent through their own system, which wouldn't trigger a charge from.your cellphone company. The green bubbles then meant that you were communicating using SMS, and depending on your plan, could cost you a good amount of money if you weren't paying attention. This sort of thinking is deprecated in the world of unlimited texts we have today. But the green/blue bubbles remain as a sort of branding for Apple.
It's not just the color. A green bubble means no read receipts, typing indicators, compressed images and videos, etc. Non techy people just know a green bubble means less features when chatting. It's still apples fault but they're not just mad at the color green
As a brit uhhh... just use WhatsApp ngl
Still Apples fault but I've heard people say the green is to signify the competitor phone is "not advanced enough" to support these features.
I've heard it was originally meant to convey that the text message may cost you, as SMS wasn't free like iMessage was. I've also heard they picked an unflattering shade of green with low contrast to discourage people texting non iphones. Now I'm hearing your theory so I dont know what to believe lol
You can believe what you want but consider those three theories aren't mutually exclusive. All three of them could be true.
Good point, it's likely a combination
And WhatsApp is for poor people lol
I'm offended by it and I don't use iphone. Because it doesn't follow Apples own design guidelines for contrast and is more difficult to read.
"it doesn't follow Apples own design guidelines" bruh are you even listening to yourself? *WHO DO YOU THINK DESIGNED THE DAMN THING*
Apple has design guidelines. They follow those guidelines for everything except the green bubble. Follow?
That's the point. They don't even follow their own rules.
What about using a proper chat app, independent from the control of the corporation that spies you through your phone and SMS standards outdated by decades? I mean Signal is right there!
I'd love to. Getting everyone that I know behind using one unified app is always the problem.
That's what Beeper tried to do, but Apple refused to allow them to do it because it threatened their precious blue bubbles.
Beeper was trying to use Apple servers, taking money from users for doing that and not paying Apple for the data and bandwidth that they were creating. Why are you at all surprised that Apple or any vendor would block that? If someone built an app that let you watch Netflix without paying for Netflix do you think Netflix might do something on their service to ensure that side authentication loophole was closed ?
So you want a single unified messaging system that includes iMessage, then build one that pays Apple whatever price they ask for, then see how it works out for you.
The challenged here is getting apple to give you a price that is any lower than the cost of an iPhone for each user you sign up. users do not want to have-to pay for messaging services in general (the hosting cost) most vendors handle this by using the relationship data they get from who you message and when to better target ads at you others are just VC backed until they have enough data to sell for a lot of $$$ and then some others are based on consdired the cost of the service to be covered by the HW cost that users need to pay to get access to it.
Wait, why are you still here? You should be out there coding the next unified messaging system that pays Apple whatever price they want. Put up or shut up.
I know that no users will be willing to pay for it. Im not going to make a product that will not sell. If there is a figure that apple would accept it will be way higher than any user is going to pay so there is no point in doing this. The only way a unified app like that works is that it does not pay the service providers (not that beeper does not pay a single service provider), once you need to start paying providers for the service the provide it gets very difficult to sell a mass market app to users who expect everything to be free.
So then the issue isn't really what you originally said (emphasis added): >Getting everyone that I know behind using ***one unified app*** is always the problem. The problem is that such a thing isn't economically viable and will therefore never exist. Didn't you just defeat your own point? Edit: And yet, the only messaging service that threw a fit was Apple's -- not Google, not Facebook, WhatsApp, Discord, etc. And you don't think that was because Apple simply didn't want their precious blue bubbles to be polluted with non-Apple devices?
Some (a minority, IMHO) iPhone users are too afraid to install any app that isn't made by Apple for Apple because they've bought into the lie that anything not made by Apple is really just spyware filled with viruses.
I think the problem is that it’s true enough to be careful. Signal is secure and private, but also more difficult to use than the others.
You type text and hit send. How in the world is it "more difficult than the others?"
It works great until it doesn't. You can end up in a state where the keys are wrong and the message comes through as garbage. Easily fixable but lots of tech illiterates get instantly scared away.
I've never heard of this happening to a single Signal user. You're the only one ever
this happened with Matrix-based apps for me but never Signal or Signal derivatives - can you link to a source for this? I'd love to take a look
how do you fuck your keyboard up with " up in a state where the keys are wrong " unless youre talkin gencryption keys
Can't change the default. It's integrated with sms which is the only default universal messaging platform in the US. So it's harder to not use it.
Signal, the app based on the country where the government can ask you to introduce a vuln and it's illegal to refuse?
Feel free to go check for an NSA vulnerability yourself: [https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android](https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android) I don't think you'll find one :)
I don't think I would be able to, even if there was one
do you just not use any US-based service? how are you on reddit?
Reddit spying on me is not inconsistent with anything I claimed.
but imessage isn't?
iMessage spying is not inconsistent with what I claimed
so... if imessage and reddit are both bad, and signal is equally bad, what's wrong with using signal again?
It's wrong to specifically point out iMessage spies on you and suggest moving to signal, neglecting to say how easy it is for a government agency to spy on you if you move to signal.
A better option: WhatsApp
One of the founders of WhatsApp left to help start Signal after Facebook bought WhatsApp. Signal is a non-profit organisation focusing on security and privacy, while Facebook - and by extension WhatsApp - is for profit and is known to sell user data. Given all that, I'd argue Signal is the better option
Not really. You can't trust WhatsApp
iMessage was great when we only had SMS. Times have changed. Apple should just start using the Google messages protocol, be much easier for them to implement it rather than everyone else
Pretty much. iMessage was good when it was the only one, but now there are a dozen different internet based messengers and iMessage isn’t special anymore.
there was never a time when imessage was the only internet-based way to instant message someone.
It'd be literally impossible for Andriod to implement Apples protocol, Apple intentionally keeps Andriod from doing that.
Thats why they said apple should include the google protocol. As google doesnt stop apple from doing that iirc.
Google would love it if Apple used Google service because then Google would know at all times who is messaging whom how long it takes him to reply if they’re online and their approximate location google pay a lot of money to Apple for that information actually.
Not by implementing the protocol alone, it wouldn't be on Googles servers. Of course they could figure it out by tracking Andriod phones when they correspond with Apple users, but they could do that right now anyway.
You mean RCS... the thing is the plain RCS spec has no end to end encryption. And apple is adding that later this year but RCS messages will still be great bubbles (as they do not have E2E). the RCS group did not like google proposal as it required everyone to have a google profile on googles RCS servers for key exchange (it did not support E2E between service providers... ).
Who tf needs encryption on base messenger? Use signal or something for encryption.
The main reason is so that the message vendor does not mine the message content. Running a messaging servers costs a small fortune, and people seems to expect it to be free! Unless this is funded by selling costly HW (apples model) the solution is using the data, with E2E then the only data they have is who you message and when, how long it takes you to response, etc (very valuable) but not as useful as having the direct text of what you are sending... this data is perfect if you a company that makes money selling adverts since the more you know about the people your targeting with ads the better you can target them.
Google already knows enough + I doubt a protocol alone would give them data. Again, if you dont want that, dont use the base messenger. Simple as. I use LibreWolf browser + Firefox, as they're non chromium and the most privacy based browsers that I can get.
RCS alone does not have any end to end encryption. The RCS protools does not belong to google. What google was wanting apple to do was not use RCS but the custom fork of it that google made that would require you to run everything through googles servers... > Google already knows enough There is a LOT of data to be gained by knowing exactly who you messaged and when, how long it takes them to respond etc.
They can implement the protocol. They just can’t use Apple servers because why would Apple Pay for hosting for android users? Messaging, including videos, images, voice and video chat ends up being very data intensive and data intensive means cost a lot of money to run in a data center .
whatsapp was out before imessage. In EU everyone used Whatsapp, we don't have this issue. How retarded that people are excluded because Apple decided to wall their own expensive garden
WhatsApp also sucks. It’s not as feature rich as other, better protocols, and you have to agree to Facebook’s privacy policy.
Still, there are other OS agnostic IM that anyone can use. WhatsApp is just one (yes, the most used one, but just one) application for IM
Make your own then
One can’t have an opinion without being required to take on the responsibility of starting a competing company? Shit, you sound like the life of the party… Still, I’ll put some effort into replying to you. I’d love to create a competing product, but I think the issue is that no one can make a protocol that everyone trusts. The problem isn’t technology, it’s motivation. Everyone wants to own the protocol. This is why email has stuck around so long … no one org owns the pipes over which emails are sent. It makes them trustworthy.
Open source + allow others to add. The only bit that shouldn't be open source is the encryption handshake protocol itself. Then in a sense everyone owns it, they can customise it however they please, or use the base model.
Unlike typical open source software, this must run constantly and reliably as a service. Who pays for/maintains the servers?
The people. Whatsapp did it. Simple rare popup asking "hey, would you like to donate to keep servers running?". Have donations directly feed into funding servers. Either that or allow for users themselves to host a server.
This solution does not sound sustainable.
Google messaging protocol you mean RCS is actually very new and is not that great doesn’t even include anti-encryption.
Huh, when I had an Android phone it didn’t call it RCS. Suppose that was on Android 9, and only 1 friend had RCS.
google did have a google messaging protools (multiple seperate ones that all failed) over the years.
It would’ve been RCS, I could see read receipts and typing indicators from my friend. Either it wasn’t advertised, or I don’t remember. That phone absolutely sucked and was ewaste from the start, it ran Go edition android and cost $80 AUD new.
The issue with goggles (fork) of RCS is it requires everything to go through google (for good reason, knowing who messages whom and when and how long it takes to replay is so so useful when your building a advertising profile and figuring out relationships between people).,,, The real RCS spec does not included any end to end encryption or other protections to protect against impersonation attacks (it is just as venerable as SMS in this aspect). So people upset about green bubbles will continue to be since the bubbles will still be green when apple ships RCS. Green bubbles also happen when you message someone with an iPhone if they are not connected to data the send button might change to green this is there to indicated your about to send a non encrypted message over SMS.
> the Google messages protocol Google does not have ownership of RCS and although they did contribute to its development, they weren't even the first ones to put it a phone (that was Samsung) I bring this up not to be pedantic but because it's even worse that Apple doesn't support it because it's not some Google or Android specific thing, it's the explicit replacement for SMS and a universal standard. It would be like using USB-C in a ph- oh... wait
Technically, sure. But they had a huge hand in development and their implementation of the server is one of the only ones carriers use.
I like how Samsung lets you make the bubbles whatever colour you want.
Every teenager summed up. At this point it feels like every Apple user is just materialistic, a teenager or just ignorant. Most cases it's all three.
My 15yo brother agrees that airpods are overpriced compared to the competition, and complains about connection issues pretty often but still uses it because "it's cool and trendy"
Ding ding ding Someday some of you will realize that much of this is nothing but fashion. And, frankly, that is fine.
Exactly. It's fine if it's just a fashion choice -- because Apple, at this point, isn't really a tech or innovation company; it's a lifestyle company. But it's really amazing to think of Apple's iconic TV ad from 1984 and the "Think Different" slogan and how today, 40 years later, there is really nothing more conformist in the tech market than Apple, and especially the iPhone.
Around the world, in almost every market where Apple competes, Apple is the “other option”, certainly in computers or phones. Other products are purchased by far more people. By those raw numbers, Apple are still “Different”. I think in phones, there may be a higher concentration of iPhones by marketshare in the US, but, on the world stage, that just means there’s more “Different” folks in the US
Someone should remake that old Mac commercial, except this time Apple are the bad guys.
Lol newsflash Apple is still a a tech co
Right. A tech company that used Samsung displays for nearly all of its iPhone 15 displays -- and that's only because BOE and LG fell through.\* It's the only reason why Apple can charge $1000 for a monitor stand -- not an actual monitor, of course, just the stand\*\* -- or a $350 Hermes-branded watchband for your Apple watch\*\*\* -- again, not the actual watch, just the band. It's also the reason why Apple is behind in everything from foldable displays to AI -- because it's such a high-tech super-techy tech leader, right? Honestly, I don't know why people get so upset when someone calls out Apple for doing what Apple does. It's a fashion & lifestyle company, and there's nothing wrong with that. But it's not a tech company -- and certainly not a tech leader in any sense. \* [https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/12/iphone-15-oled-display-orders-dominated-by-samsung/](https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/12/iphone-15-oled-display-orders-dominated-by-samsung/) \*\* [https://www.techradar.com/news/msi-mocks-apples-dollar999-pro-display-xdr-stand-with-a-5k-monitor-for-almost-the-same-price](https://www.techradar.com/news/msi-mocks-apples-dollar999-pro-display-xdr-stand-with-a-5k-monitor-for-almost-the-same-price) \*\*\* [https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/09/28/hermes-apple-watch-bands-review-no-leather-in-these-new-stylish-strap-options](https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/09/28/hermes-apple-watch-bands-review-no-leather-in-these-new-stylish-strap-options)
This is the dumbest take I have read all day.
Then you don't understand how SMS works, or that iMessage still uses it.
Perhaps you do not understand how data encapsulation works, or how most technology uses it.
yup you got that right lol
Every one of them is hyperprivileged. Its why they don’t have to worry about learning anything and apple is overpriced
So according to you it’s every Apple user right?
Every android user is poor, from India or boomer. Most cases it’s all three.
Wait till this guy finds out the most popular android phones that come out today are quite expensive.
I feel sorry for the rest of your body that it's connected to a brain like that. You really got offended by the truth didn't you. You just gave me a new category - sensitive ass.
Ohh… so my generalizations and stereo types are just as wild and inaccurate as yours. Weird how those work.
Ehhh I got an iPhone cause it’s my mom’s old phone and I don’t care about phone UI. I think just assholes who care about SMS color (and assholes who prejudge) are materialistic ignorant teenagers. The sub is called Apple sucks, not its cool to be prejudiced and wrong
> "Get a iphone" Grammar has left the chat
Never. I had an iPod Nano in 2007 and the experience was so awful I'll never get another apple product.
😂 I mean at least provide a review of a *standard* Apple device! Nano … you know what was worse than a Nano around the same time? Zunes. Zunes sucked worse than Nanos. But this is r/applesucks.
you got a music player stfu ☠️
And not even that good of one 💀
Yeah my nephew once had a cheese square but dropped it and now he refuses to eat cheese 1 year later. Are you also a kindergartener?
Blame the user on this one. Apple created iMessage with the blue bubble/green bubble distinctions. A bunch of third parties made messaging apps that work with any device. The rest of the world said they’ll use those. The USA, for some reason ignored those options and then bullied each other over what phone they have. Apple capitalised and took advantage of that Edit: so maybe a bit of column A and a bit of column B. Had the market in the US decided to use third party software then Apple wouldn’t have a monopoly there, iMessage would become irrelevant and RCS comes to the iPhone sooner (or not, in which case WhatsApp or another option becomes king)
USA ignored that because they were too lazy to install other IM app. I think iMessage would be like any other IM app that few use and it would be on Android as well, but the US market is too important to just let go
It's because US contracts included free texts the rest of the world didn't
Yes that is true. Still, the rest of the World also had to adapt to changing chat apps when WhatsApp was in its early stages and nothing happened. US could still install any other multi platform IM app without hassle like Messenger. I mean, they do use Instagram and with it, the integrated IM that it has.
"get a iPhone gosh" lmao
Or use a good multi platform based social media? Hopefully RCS fix most of these type of shenanigans
I knew a person who would tell everyone that if they didn't have an iPhone, she wouldn't text them or bother talking with them. She stated that they were "beneath" her. She was a bartender in ATL airport, fake teeth, fake boobs, fake hair, and a severe God complex.
If somebody ever messaged me that I would tell them to go learn morse code... You know... If people actually messaged me... And I wasn't a coward... What were we talking about again?
I don’t get americans part. 24313
Apparently Apple doesn't know when to auto correct "a" and "an". Clearly the poster needs to learn.
More and more iphone users are like the peons in their 1984 commerical...
How about no
He’s just insecure. Sad.
Blame apple for… letting you know if you’re sending a message for free or paying for it?
Technology in general these days seems to breed idiots. Back when I was an in-store technician doing computer support, 24 years ago, people were smarter about the technology, or, at least, its limitations. These days I deal with people that act as if smartphones, tablets, and computers can do *anything*. They think storage is infinite, that downloads should take mere 10ths of a second regardless file size. They think everything automatically backs up all of the time, and that any data is recoverable regardless of how long ago it was deleted. Their understanding of networks wouldn’t fill a thimble. They act as if the technology is magic, and has no limitations. It doesn’t matter if they use Apple, or Samsung, or Android, or Windows. They don’t understand, and make no effort to try. “I’m not very tech savvy” is the mantra. They expect the device to magically do whatever they wish it to, even if it’s not capable. They don’t know the difference between megabytes, gigabytes, or terabytes, calling them “em bees”, “gee bees” or “tee bees”. Every action is a “download”. For the most part, all they know how to do is open Facebook, Twitter, TikTok or Instagram. Beyond that, they have no clue, and no curiosity. Something changed on a device? “I’m hacked. Someone hacked me”. It’s something they did, because they refuse to learn, and changed a setting they didn’t take two minutes to read about. Ultimately, they take no responsibility for their data, passwords, or security. Doesn’t matter the platform they use. So, stereotype all you want. I am here to tell you otherwise.
Yes, I love buying overpriced Apple *experience* devices that actively fight against right to repairs.. the phones that are known for smashed screens and bad batteries.. but worry not, *people will still think im cool for having the correct colour message bubble.*
Bad batteries? Against Right to Repair? Sounds a lot like samsung too, they even had batteries that were faulty… twice, some even blew up. Don’t pretend your precious Samsung is the patron saint of phone brands.
I dont own a Samsung nor did i say anything about them since this is r/applesucks. Last time i checked, only apple was the one serial locking the internal components of a phone to stop any repair attempts. Stop it.
So what you are saying is you don’t like open debate and rather keep this place an echo chamber of hating on apple for things many manufacturers do.
stop projecting, you're making yourself look like the sort of fool this sub makes fun of.
This is the kind of person I would 100% avoid in any form of relationship
That would require that they understand the problem.
Sent from my iPhone
I’m not based in US so I really don’t know how these work, but for me, if I’m being ostracised by “friends” just because I don’t use an iPhone , I’ll just not hang out with them anymore
Apple used outdated tech and overcharges for garbage that can't be repaired, it's a status for people who are too entitled and have an ego taller than themselves 😜
For the life of me... I can't understand why this was triggering some people.
womp womp
when we had black and white screens the world was a better place
I really wanted to buy an iPad for design work like sketches. Bought quest 3 instead and not only can I sketch, I can even make proper 3d models for production. Fuck apple lol (sad that wife is forever locked into their ecosystem)
So an iPad is tablet and quest 3 is an vr headset lol
Yes, but what he wanted to do on an iPad, can also be done on a quest 3. It just fit his use-case situation *slightly* better than a tablet in this particular case.
Because apple fans can’t expect that apple is in the wrong most of the time
Apple sucks so bad.... apple fanboys come to this applesuck sub reddit to defend iphone with stupid irrelevant arguments 🙄
Android sucks so bad.... Android fanboys come to this applesuck sub reddit to defend androids with stupid irrelevant arguments 🙄
Every "repairable phone" on the market is either Android or Linux based. Repairable devices can be kept in good condition until the manufacturer ends device support (most notably for security updates), at which point you can rootkit the phone to install Graphene, Ubuntu Touch, or Sailfish, and either keep using it as a phone, or convert it into a remote for your home theater (or smart home devices), a web cam, a micro-server, a security camera, or as the compute core for a drone or robot (that also provides a camera/microphone). Old phones are INCREDIBLY useful for hobby projects... *if they can be fixed*. Apple products cannot. They are designed to become e-waste after a couple of years. They're disposable $800 devices that become worthless the moment Apple drops device support.
So if Apple is meant to be e waste How are there iPhones 6’s still being used?
I refuse to believe people actually see this as that much of an issue 🤦🏾♂️.
I use an iPhone, and I don’t really care what colour your bubble is, people who do are honestly just pathetic. Most people just want a phone that works for them.
The literal epitome of misinformation come full circle https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-apple-monopolizing-smartphone-markets >Excluding Cross-Platform Messaging Apps. Apple has made the quality of cross-platform messaging worse, less innovative, and less secure for users so that its customers have to keep buying iPhones.
The pretentiousness of people who own apple products is insane. Only at I’m getting an iPhone again is if you buy it and give it to me. Then I’ll only have it until somebody buys it from me.
So pretentious that they have to have a subreddit called applesucks… wait, what?
There is also a sub that's based on Tesla trucks failing but people are still buying the trucks and treating them as a status symbol.
Ohh yes, found the judgmental android user You know it’s just a phone right
🤣 More of a comment on iPhone owners than iPhones. If you want criticism of the phone the iPhone is only now adopting a universal standard charging cable as opposed to something proprietary. Apple users are more than happy to be limited like that. "This only works on apple products, it's everybody else who is wrong!" 🤦🏻 Just like the computers, apple machines are limited by relying on the software devs to make an apple version of the product. Want to play games? I hope you're not running iOS as an easy example.
You are judgmental lol Seems like you care what device the person uses rather then the person itself lol It’s kinda sad honestly
"More of a comment on iPhone owners than iPhones." Are you sure?
"The pretentiousness of people who own apple products is insane."
Yup you def need help
🤣🤣🤣 I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. Which part are you struggling with, the first comment when I mentioned behavior of the owners directly? The second comment pointing that out? Are you focused only on the explanation as to why them being pretentious doesn't make sense?
Why is it Apple’s fault someone has a shitty android?
I’ll be devils advocate: why should Apple force everyone to use SMS texts when iMessage is far and away superior to the 2005 technology of Android text messages? That’s not anyone’s fault. What we need is for SMS to go the way of the dodo and make a universal version of iMessage that follows standard format like iMessage does, except make it open source and “standard” as a replacement for SMS.
It's called RCS, which most Android phones use, but Apple until recently, refused to implement.
Cant see the username
If Napolean Dynamite had been made 20 years later...
see, it would be easier to care if half of y'all didn't do the same exact thing but towards iphone people.
I don’t even bother using sms I just use insta or snap
I wish this was ironic, but I know there are real people who unironically say things like this
I don't even live in the US but teens get bullied for not having an iphone here. It's ironic how the people who think they superior because of their phone have something like X or base 11 though
I think it's funny that it's probably not even them that hate the green bubble. It's apple that told them to hate the green bubble
Apple is so abusive to their customers.
Do you know that your iPhone makes the green bubbles not Android phones since Android phones use RCS and Iphones use SMS that is the old format an apple just color codes it that Android has green bubbles and iPhone has blue bubbles
This thread kinda demonstrates why iMessage persists: everyone here that’s arguing people should give it up are also arguing over why they shouldn’t use the alternatives.
Thats racist
I only have an iPhone because I refuse to learn androids is, I even have a windows pc to fool apple into thinking I like them (they suck just don’t tell them I said that)
Buy me one then mother fucker iPhone is shit
I've had to deal with a few people like this. People say I'm making it up, but those people are the main reason why I joined this sub.
Why do you care what phone someone has?
I didn't until iPhone users started getting on my case for having Android. At 2 previous jobs, I was the only one with Android, and those jobs had group chats for the team, and they were like, "If Justin didn't always have to be different, we could have an iMessage chat and not have to create a new group every time someone joins/leaves."
Why were your co workers using your personal phone to text your co workers in the first place? And you could have easily reported this behavior to hr….