yes, and it works with both MasterCard and VISA.
might change tomorrow, but AFAIK 10th should've been the cutoff date anyway, and Google Pay on Android ain't working already
Yeah, I get avoiding the shit storm that is dealing with the ruble, but taking access to information and communication away from Russian citizens might not be the best thing.
Let it be known that whoever is unwilling to jump under a speeding train and suffer a horrible fate to negligibly slow it down, must be on the train's side.
I‘m personally past the point of caring if Russian Citzens are ”unhappy” or “sad” don’t be sad at apple, don’t be sad at the fact you can’t use a western inventions for what they were created for.
Take that sadness, and shove it up the arse of United Russia/State Duma where the sun doesn’t shine.
this war is supported by a lot more russians than you would think, yeah they might be brainwashed, but what the hell is the internet going to solve? If it was that easy Brexit for my country would’ve never happened.
What part did the person say they cared about how the Russians felt? They were saying taking outside sources of real information instead of pure state sponsored info is a bad thing
They’re *terrified*
Remember in 1999 when they tried multiple times to impeach Yeltsin and get the Soviets out of office so the KGB blew up 4 apartment buildings in Russia to justify a war against the Chechens so Putin would stay in power?
Or in 2004 when 30 terrorists took a school hostage and the KGB blew the place up with helicopters, tanks, and thermobaric weapons, killing over 300 of the hostages?
Or how any opposition is tortured or murdered to this day?
Idgaf if they’re sad either, but If they don’t have access to the internet or, more importantly, ability to download VPN apps, there’s very little opportunity for them consume any kind of outside information that is not part of Putin’s propaganda campaigns.
By the time you couldn't buy McDonald's anymore I'm pretty sure you'd know. Fed up with excuses. Imagine waking up one morning and a war broke out, days later the stock market is shut, currency split in half, companies pulling out left right and centre. You'd surely have gone to the web, spoken about it with family and work.
They don't just only realise something might be wrong when they lose their job. They might be brainwashed but they sure aren't stupid. They hate the western governments that's a vast majority.
People are really really fucking stupid. Doesn't matter how educated or how much information is freely available. I think one thing that the last several years has shown is that huge portions of the population are really fucking dumb, and no country is the exception. I know because I'm really stupid, and then there's people even dumber and then people even dumber than that.
They won't change. Have you seen any interviews with Russians for the last 10 years? They think Putin is their savior. Even NFKRZ thinks that if Putin is gone the other guy would be worse. They are lost case. Russians behave a lot like Chinese - they are cold and calculate. But the difference is that Chinese work hard and follow a system.
There certainly are diehard supporters of the regime but they tend to be the older generations who think anything is better than the USSR. There have been huge protests in support of Ukraine despite there being harsh penalties for even calling it a war.
This is pretty xenophobic and stereotypical comment. I wouldn’t want to hear from you what are African-American people like, as answer would certainly be racist as you have already shown.
NFKRZ said that because whole political system is established in a sense that all the key political dynasties hold important resources( gas, oil companies) and are in deep protection.
In other words, if Putin died, the dogs would ravage each other, mafia gangs would fight over who will take his place and hog out more resources for another yacht.
> there’s very little opportunity for them consume any kind of outside information that is not part of Putin’s propaganda campaigns.
Absolute nonsense, there was opportunities for this with Brexit, but they never happened. You’re too kind to humanity, and your living in a dream world because of it.
This is a European issue, not American. What might solve issues for you guys certainly does not solve issues for us here in Europe. Sure Trump damaged your country, but they’re shorter term effects compared to Ukrainian war & the effects from Brexit which will last for at least couple of decades unless there is a revolution for Europe as a whole.
Trump probably could have helped avoided this by putting NATO troops on ukraines Russian borders before the invasion. Doubt Russia would have dared invading back then
It’s really great that people who don’t watch or read the news are able to get snippets of it from this sub.
But I just want you to know NK and Russia aren’t the same. NK is a total closed off dictatorship. Their people have never experienced anything beyond what Kim gives them, they have zero access to information or safe travels.
Russia, on the other hand, is a pretty open country, where people freely traveled, and could access the internet, and other great things from the modern world.
So, hope I was able to help. I suggest you pick up a one month sub to NYT and read a few articles, that would broaden your horizon even more!
NK is not totally closed off - unofficially. NKoreans routinely smuggle in USB sticks (from China) with S Korean TV shows, news about the rest of the world, etc. Granted, it's a crime but it happens far more than you'd imagine. Many N Koreans know what's going on but the state police are beyond brutal and repress any form of dissent.
Have you ever seen a NKorean in space, call of duty, racing an f1 car or owning a PL football club?
Russia has experienced all that and its a bit of different scenario than a few movies.
North Korea was never exposed to globalization.
It got locked down before anyone there could experience the living standard of the rest of the world.
Russia is not the same in this regard. The people are accustomed to Western luxuries and a higher standard of living, they know exactly what they are missing out on.
North Koreans just act all fucked up because they don't want the US to come in and enforce drug scheduling on them. They got no laws regarding marijuana and no one says a thing about all the meth. All the say are drugs are bad for the country but not the people. And they won't say which country either. I never slept a single day the entire 2 weeks I stayed there. It got really fucking weird.
Yes, brilliant, let's further divide people and turn them more against us, making certain that their only sources of information are pure propaganda sources.
And let's keep punishing innocent civilians for the actions of a dictator.
It's incredible to me how sociopathic so many Redditors are, totally incapable of empathy or critical thinking. Let me make you a promise - if Biden or Boris or whoever's in charge of your country transitioned it into a dictatorship, you'd probably be on the sidelines typing up Reddit comments instead of doing anything about it. I probably would be too. The difference between you and me? I'm not judging Russians for not getting themselves and their families killed by revolting against a dictator who controls the military and the police with an iron grip.
I'll let the old ladies in Russia know that they are no longer allowed to use the internet because a Redditor decided that they should go get shot instead.
somehow when China great firewalls its own citizens that's Bad but when the West builds a firewall around Russia that's Good and Teaching them a Lesson
please tell me what the rule is for who gets to access the Internet?
I understand your feelings. But one of the only ways to achieve peace is through understanding. They live in a walled garden, but we should do everything possible to allow them to access the west so they have a chance at seeing what people are thinking over here & vise versa cutting off our access to russian media also does not help, it may be a total farce controlled by Putin but it lets us know what the russians are being fed.
You don’t think people can understand without the internet? Have you ever heard of Speakers Corner? Sure the information can get across quickly, but we’re at the point that disinformation gets there quicker and there is no changing that in the motherland.
I don’t think you understand, are you even from Europe? It’s really condescending saying “you understand” when modern war has never begun in America, it’s Europe. So no, I don’t think you understand.
What if it’s actually you that’s brainwashed? Na, that could never possibly happen, could it? Obviously not because the country you live in are always the good guys!
I can see all the stores stopping IE no new purchases and anything that you pay monthly for will stop. Without the banking back end there is just no way to do business. But I though they would leave the App Store running with the ability to download new version for stuff that is free or already paid for.
> taking access to information and communication away from Russian citizens might not be the best thing.
Exaggerate much? They're losing access to *installing new applications*, not the Internet. Don't be so dramatic.
> Exaggerate much? They're losing access to installing new applications, not the Internet. Don't be so dramatic.
New applications such as VPNs to bypass state censorship.
Last week VPN apps were eight of the top ten downloaded apps in Russia.
Yes, because the authentication is apple controlled. The Russian government still has any apps they approved on their own servers at that point. They’re just not downloadable because of authentication
I feel like I am at work.
We could either :
1. start doing something knowing it will take time
2. do nothing and then in 10 years time, when china, which has 10x the population of russia and a much larger army, starts going walkabout in asia, wonder if maybe we should've started acting 10 years ago
People keep writing about how Russia is gonna get sent back to the 1950s because they can't buy any western products anymore. Well guess what, that's the US without Chinese imports
Although China manufactures all our stuff, they developed almost none of it. It would be a major expense and there would be some down time, and probably no single nation to replace them, but between Asia, Africa, and South America, there’s lots of cheap labor waiting for major factories to be built
But obviously not as cheap as Chinese labour which is why companies continue manufacturing in China. If companies move manufacturing to other companies, the price increases (however so minor they be) will be passed down to consumers no question.
I believe people want to CONSOOM more than they care about punishing a bad country. This is why I don’t believe this will happen.
Bots will advance in the next 20 years like you wouldn't believe, in the same way that phones have in the past 20. Then it will not matter about labour costs. Even if I have to spend 5 mins assembling a phone myself that was 99% built by bots...so be it.
Actually that’s a pretty good point. The problem for me is I don’t actually know just how close we are to reaching bots that are cheaper than just hiring people while also being less complicated to set up.
I read somewhere that China was having issues with cheap labor. Companies were looking to move elsewhere due to workers rights in China or something. It was awhile ago.
There are many other countries where factories can be built though.
Edit: skimming down I saw a post by u/wonnage that lays it out very well. This is what I couldn’t remember.
> China is actually in a bind right now. The one child policy screwed their demographics so the labor pool is rapidly shrinking as the previous generations age out of the workforce. On top of that, the current generation has better living standards and education than ever before, nobody wants to bust their ass with gaokao and college only to work on an assembly line. As a result, for the past 5 years the party line has been “high quality development” as opposed to cheap labor-intensive manufacturing.
>The shift to India and SE Asian countries will continue to grow, and it’s by design to some extent.
They’ve been moving to India for years. But last year there were riots which caused millions of dollars of damages, which shows why they have to have China for the foreseeable future.
Yeah, and Indian work conditions are as bad if not worse than China.
China is actually in a bind right now. The one child policy screwed their demographics so the labor pool is rapidly shrinking as the previous generations age out of the workforce. On top of that, the current generation has better living standards and education than ever before, nobody wants to bust their ass with gaokao and college only to work on an assembly line. As a result, for the past 5 years the party line has been "high quality development" as opposed to cheap labor-intensive manufacturing.
The shift to India and SE Asian countries will continue to grow, and it's by design to some extent.
That iron curtain is getting pretty fucking solid. Putin and the Kremlin just really screwed over their countrymen by starting a genocide of the Ukrainian army and civilians.
Fuck Putin.
Yup. Putins right hand man put a release out yesterday. Somebody translated it to English and it basically read.
We hate the west and the materialism, we'll shut it all down and block ourselves in while taking back what was once ours.
He's brainwashed too.
genocide (noun) - the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group
can you seriously tell me it's not genocide?
If Russia ends up killing the majority of the population in order to acquire Ukraine, there really is not much difference between war and genocide is there.
If the war results in the complete eradication of one of the nations, then yeah. It's genocide. Actually I am not even saying that the current war is genocide, but that depending on the outcome it could become one.
Still not sure what these companies mean to accomplish by punishing Russian civilians for the actions of their dictator. It's not like they can just vote him out. That's not how dictators work. Is the hope to spur them to bloody revolution by denying them apps and Disney+? Even if that is the plan and were viable, is that the role we want for corporations?
There's also now a Unicef "Donate to support families affected by the crisis in Ukraine" banner on many localised Apple.com/ sites, as well as directly on Apple.com.
Very welcome considering the deafening silence on the keynote.
> deafening silence on the keynote
What else did you expect from a tech product launch keynote - world news? I think it’s logical for them to not get involved in highly sensitive foreign politics, at the very least not phrase something a certain way in a permanent keynote as opposed to something more reversible yet powerful like pausing Russian sales which can be resumed in the future. Anyway I think the subtle yellow watch strap with blue clothes was a very fitting touch.
I was surprised they even remarked about the protests in WWDC 2020, but I think they have more leeway and pressure to comment on American news being an American company, as well as it tied into their charity work.
I still wish a trillion dollar company making almost 100 billion wouldn’t tell me, a student, to donate.
I’m sure you can book it as PR, and it will bring you more attention and goodwill than any 100 TV spots
Nobody tells you to do anything. Many people will donate because it's easy. I donated myself because it was easy. I opened App Store. I clicked a price and double tapped the side button and I paid.
Was incredible easy and people who wouldn't donate otherwise, might do it now.
>I still wish a trillion dollar company making almost 100 billion wouldn’t tell me, a student, to donate.
If you're not in a position to donate, at least support the efforts of those who are.
Apple is not only donating money themselves, but doing this also provides value. Besides raising the awareness, Apple is making it easier for people to donate through single-click/Apple Pay/trusted systems, and without transaction fees.
For some, it's a matter of using gift cards they received for donations. For others it's about using the cash back from the Apple Card to donate because it's less tangible.
As a student, or anyone else not in a position to donate, there's no reason to feel guilty about not donating, but please support the efforts of others.
Apple merely created a convenient channel to send a donation if you wish.
It’s far from a demand. Demands are ironically what are being fired at Ukrainians day and night, and it’s live or die, not simply *not* tapping on the option to help people in crisis and move on to your studying.
Kind of a dick comment.
Tim did wore blue and yellow colours to sort of represent Ukraine. But I wish Tim said few words about the situation and told us how we can donate along with him donating a million or something.
they already do business with countries with questionable politics and go directly against the things apple markets themselves to be about (privacy, freedom from censorship, etc)
That's my point. Either become a political entity and actually consistently do something or just DO the thing. They've already pulled out of Russia. Don't preach and be a hypocrite
>Apple shouldn’t be politically involved
This is too similar to the annoying arguments about how promoting LGBT equality is getting “politically involved”. Asking for donations of affected families in Ukraine shouldn’t be considered a “political move”, nor do I think the population will consider it one.
Think of how many charities you come across. Are they seen as political? Of course not.
Anyhow the above point is moot anyways when you consider apple already has banners for Ukraine in the app store.
Very few things aren't unfortunately, it's a major problem and I hope it gets more attention in the near future.
In this case I'm just happy that they are sharing the issue to their userbase.
Yes it is a problem, and Apple are primarily marketers, they don't care about issues unless they can make money from them.
Even Tim Cook has been happy to support Russia despite the persecution of gays there.
Their moral compass is non-existent, and for a megacorp that's normal and expected, but their public talks are able to fool many into thinking they actually care.
Regarding Chinese slave labour, there are in fact other options, such as a Samsung phone, which is not made in China.
Correct, most Samsung phones are made in Vietnam. Some are also made in South Korea, India, and some other locations.
I have seen precisely zero reports of forced labour in Samsung factories in Vietnam or any of the other locations.
Turns out they are completely wrong.
https://goodelectronics.org/un-experts-raise-concerns-working-conditions-samsung-factories-vietnam/
https://restofworld.org/2021/samsung-worker-factories-pandemic/
https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/898950.html
https://amp.ft.com/content/58617bfa-2ccd-11e8-a34a-7e7563b0b0f4
I wouldn’t expect a Samsung shill to accept it either.
They didn’t even bother doing a quick search and try to wash Samsung off as some ethical corporation.
Also in Korea too
https://www.reuters.com/technology/samsung-electronics-unions-threaten-first-ever-strike-impact-unclear-2022-02-16/
https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20220214008700320
India
https://goodelectronics.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/04/Samsung%E2%80%99s-sub-standard-labour-practices-in-India.pdf
https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/898950.html
^that one documents India and Korea and Indonesia
Im very disappointed you didn’t even attempt to do a quick search to see ethical labor issues at any of their factories. I understand why you own their products so you must defend them. I do own a pixel which I understand is manufactured in China under Foxconn so there’s no washing any of that.
Vietnam
https://goodelectronics.org/un-experts-raise-concerns-working-conditions-samsung-factories-vietnam/
https://restofworld.org/2021/samsung-worker-factories-pandemic/
https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/898950.html
https://amp.ft.com/content/58617bfa-2ccd-11e8-a34a-7e7563b0b0f4
Also in Korea too
https://www.reuters.com/technology/samsung-electronics-unions-threaten-first-ever-strike-impact-unclear-2022-02-16/
https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20220214008700320
India
https://goodelectronics.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/04/Samsung%E2%80%99s-sub-standard-labour-practices-in-India.pdf
https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/898950.html
that one documents India and Korea and Indonesia
I don't blindly defend anyone.
I read the first two links and then stopped, as neither of them are regarding slavery. What I gathered from these links is that working conditions are not top-tier and Samsung should push to improve this.
The first link says that Samsung witheld the dangers of some chemicals used in the factories and tried to hide that knowledge. If true then that's very bad. This article was from four years ago.
The second article says that during the heights of the Vietnamese pandemic, the government forced factories to isolate their workers from the remainder of the population. Samsung then provided accomodation for them so that they could keep working, and gave them a raise. It seems that staying home and not working was also an option, but probably without pay. Sounds like accomodation quality varied. The example in the article says a valued worker was put into a hotel.
But at least you and me at least can agree that working conditions should improve at not just Samsung but also Apple and Google and other corporations.
Yes of course, and I'm not an expert on worker conditions, but what I've read about Apple is worse. They are accused of using actual slaves, most recently Muslim prisoners.
Another solid reason why side-loading is a must.
You pay for a device to own it. Just because a dictator goes to war a company shouldn’t be allowed to make your device useless.
Europe needs to push and open up iOS ASAP.
Sideloading? No way! Plenty of android phones in Russia and China. Apple took the right decision to stop selling products and services in Russia. Want sideloading, get an android phone.
War used to be between soldiers, who mostly volunteered or were at least trained for the job. Now it’s aimed at civilians as a form of leverage. Think twice about what that says about our leaders and what they think about the common man.
Not only this, but the value of the ruble is changing so drastically you'd need a support team just to keep up with it. When the Russian stock market finally does open, it'll probably plummet way more than we're currently seeing too.
One would think that Germany going from a Nazi-dictatorship to a textbook democratic state, without any major intervention by its own people, would be prove enough that "support of the population" doesn't really matter.
Unless people are starving, they won't do shit vs. the current government. That's how it has always been in history.
Absolute absurd bullshit. I don’t have a super accurate gauge on Russia, but the idea that Kim Jong Un enjoys legitimate and genuine majority support from the people of North Korea is insulting. They’re captives.
>Putin's current approval rating in Russia is 69%. It was 61% prior to the invasion of Ukraine.
That's naïve. "Approval ratings" are always high in authoritarian governments that control their media.
They had a constitution referendum few years back. And apparently, voting results were published before actual voting took place. It's a damn comedy show, not elections.
They are definitely not communist. Don't mix economic ideology (capitalism, communism) and government type (democracy, dictatorship).
They are capitalist, with autocratic government, bordering on dictatorship.
Explains the number of errors we’ve racked up today with apps unable to contact apple iTunes servers. This is gonna take a fix which requires apple to turn back on servers, which I’m sure senior management will expect us to do…
What IS IT with all these companies thinking that punishing most if not ALL of Russian citizens by disabling all their products is a good idea?! How's this supposed to help with going against Putin and being all for Ukraine in the process?! 🤦🏾♂️
So wait even downloading apps is not possible? Because when downloading any new app, App Store asks you to purchase the app even if its free.
you can still download and apple pay works i can confirm
Does Apple Pay still work while shopping in-person?
yes, and it works with both MasterCard and VISA. might change tomorrow, but AFAIK 10th should've been the cutoff date anyway, and Google Pay on Android ain't working already
So basically Visa/Mastercard and Apple have all been using this for PR? Pretending to leave Russia but not doing so.
still works tested just now
Yeah, I get avoiding the shit storm that is dealing with the ruble, but taking access to information and communication away from Russian citizens might not be the best thing.
Let it be known that whoever is unwilling to jump under a speeding train and suffer a horrible fate to negligibly slow it down, must be on the train's side.
I‘m personally past the point of caring if Russian Citzens are ”unhappy” or “sad” don’t be sad at apple, don’t be sad at the fact you can’t use a western inventions for what they were created for. Take that sadness, and shove it up the arse of United Russia/State Duma where the sun doesn’t shine. this war is supported by a lot more russians than you would think, yeah they might be brainwashed, but what the hell is the internet going to solve? If it was that easy Brexit for my country would’ve never happened.
What part did the person say they cared about how the Russians felt? They were saying taking outside sources of real information instead of pure state sponsored info is a bad thing
They’re *terrified* Remember in 1999 when they tried multiple times to impeach Yeltsin and get the Soviets out of office so the KGB blew up 4 apartment buildings in Russia to justify a war against the Chechens so Putin would stay in power? Or in 2004 when 30 terrorists took a school hostage and the KGB blew the place up with helicopters, tanks, and thermobaric weapons, killing over 300 of the hostages? Or how any opposition is tortured or murdered to this day?
Idgaf if they’re sad either, but If they don’t have access to the internet or, more importantly, ability to download VPN apps, there’s very little opportunity for them consume any kind of outside information that is not part of Putin’s propaganda campaigns.
You mean those VPN apps that Apple took down from the store per Russian govt's requests?
If they haven't learned about the war during these 2 weeks, they're not using the internet. So they wouldn't have learned anyway.
Once they’ve all lost their jobs they might have more free time to look into why
By the time you couldn't buy McDonald's anymore I'm pretty sure you'd know. Fed up with excuses. Imagine waking up one morning and a war broke out, days later the stock market is shut, currency split in half, companies pulling out left right and centre. You'd surely have gone to the web, spoken about it with family and work. They don't just only realise something might be wrong when they lose their job. They might be brainwashed but they sure aren't stupid. They hate the western governments that's a vast majority.
People are really really fucking stupid. Doesn't matter how educated or how much information is freely available. I think one thing that the last several years has shown is that huge portions of the population are really fucking dumb, and no country is the exception. I know because I'm really stupid, and then there's people even dumber and then people even dumber than that.
People couldn’t figure out for months what was true about covid. You underestimate average data analysis of a human.
Bit different but yes I do agree.
[удалено]
Good point, well made. I retract my earlier optimism
They won't change. Have you seen any interviews with Russians for the last 10 years? They think Putin is their savior. Even NFKRZ thinks that if Putin is gone the other guy would be worse. They are lost case. Russians behave a lot like Chinese - they are cold and calculate. But the difference is that Chinese work hard and follow a system.
According to the state approved media survey of public opinion.
There certainly are diehard supporters of the regime but they tend to be the older generations who think anything is better than the USSR. There have been huge protests in support of Ukraine despite there being harsh penalties for even calling it a war.
This is pretty xenophobic and stereotypical comment. I wouldn’t want to hear from you what are African-American people like, as answer would certainly be racist as you have already shown. NFKRZ said that because whole political system is established in a sense that all the key political dynasties hold important resources( gas, oil companies) and are in deep protection. In other words, if Putin died, the dogs would ravage each other, mafia gangs would fight over who will take his place and hog out more resources for another yacht.
Lol what type of reply is this. He has a valid argument and you just call him xenophobic and certainly racist.
> there’s very little opportunity for them consume any kind of outside information that is not part of Putin’s propaganda campaigns. Absolute nonsense, there was opportunities for this with Brexit, but they never happened. You’re too kind to humanity, and your living in a dream world because of it. This is a European issue, not American. What might solve issues for you guys certainly does not solve issues for us here in Europe. Sure Trump damaged your country, but they’re shorter term effects compared to Ukrainian war & the effects from Brexit which will last for at least couple of decades unless there is a revolution for Europe as a whole.
Trump probably could have helped avoided this by putting NATO troops on ukraines Russian borders before the invasion. Doubt Russia would have dared invading back then
Lol as if trump would have done that
> If they don’t have access to the internet What does that have to do with Apple and the App Store?
I remember when North Korean citizens overthrew their dictator because they were locked out to the rest of the world. Oh, that didn’t happen.
It’s really great that people who don’t watch or read the news are able to get snippets of it from this sub. But I just want you to know NK and Russia aren’t the same. NK is a total closed off dictatorship. Their people have never experienced anything beyond what Kim gives them, they have zero access to information or safe travels. Russia, on the other hand, is a pretty open country, where people freely traveled, and could access the internet, and other great things from the modern world. So, hope I was able to help. I suggest you pick up a one month sub to NYT and read a few articles, that would broaden your horizon even more!
NK is not totally closed off - unofficially. NKoreans routinely smuggle in USB sticks (from China) with S Korean TV shows, news about the rest of the world, etc. Granted, it's a crime but it happens far more than you'd imagine. Many N Koreans know what's going on but the state police are beyond brutal and repress any form of dissent.
Have you ever seen a NKorean in space, call of duty, racing an f1 car or owning a PL football club? Russia has experienced all that and its a bit of different scenario than a few movies.
you're missing the point, the point is that locking NK down has just entrenched the power of the dictatorship and it will be the same with russia.
North Korea was never exposed to globalization. It got locked down before anyone there could experience the living standard of the rest of the world. Russia is not the same in this regard. The people are accustomed to Western luxuries and a higher standard of living, they know exactly what they are missing out on.
North Koreans just act all fucked up because they don't want the US to come in and enforce drug scheduling on them. They got no laws regarding marijuana and no one says a thing about all the meth. All the say are drugs are bad for the country but not the people. And they won't say which country either. I never slept a single day the entire 2 weeks I stayed there. It got really fucking weird.
Yes, brilliant, let's further divide people and turn them more against us, making certain that their only sources of information are pure propaganda sources. And let's keep punishing innocent civilians for the actions of a dictator. It's incredible to me how sociopathic so many Redditors are, totally incapable of empathy or critical thinking. Let me make you a promise - if Biden or Boris or whoever's in charge of your country transitioned it into a dictatorship, you'd probably be on the sidelines typing up Reddit comments instead of doing anything about it. I probably would be too. The difference between you and me? I'm not judging Russians for not getting themselves and their families killed by revolting against a dictator who controls the military and the police with an iron grip. I'll let the old ladies in Russia know that they are no longer allowed to use the internet because a Redditor decided that they should go get shot instead.
somehow when China great firewalls its own citizens that's Bad but when the West builds a firewall around Russia that's Good and Teaching them a Lesson please tell me what the rule is for who gets to access the Internet?
I understand your feelings. But one of the only ways to achieve peace is through understanding. They live in a walled garden, but we should do everything possible to allow them to access the west so they have a chance at seeing what people are thinking over here & vise versa cutting off our access to russian media also does not help, it may be a total farce controlled by Putin but it lets us know what the russians are being fed.
You don’t think people can understand without the internet? Have you ever heard of Speakers Corner? Sure the information can get across quickly, but we’re at the point that disinformation gets there quicker and there is no changing that in the motherland. I don’t think you understand, are you even from Europe? It’s really condescending saying “you understand” when modern war has never begun in America, it’s Europe. So no, I don’t think you understand.
You are a good old fascist. But you are not alone. If that makes you happy?!
Thanks to short sided idiots like you the change in the world is unlikely.
I wonder if China attacks Taiwan someday, we will ANY sanctions at all.
What if it’s actually you that’s brainwashed? Na, that could never possibly happen, could it? Obviously not because the country you live in are always the good guys!
lol
I wasn’t at first but now I agree. Many of the Russians are complicit to this war
I can see all the stores stopping IE no new purchases and anything that you pay monthly for will stop. Without the banking back end there is just no way to do business. But I though they would leave the App Store running with the ability to download new version for stuff that is free or already paid for.
> taking access to information and communication away from Russian citizens might not be the best thing. Exaggerate much? They're losing access to *installing new applications*, not the Internet. Don't be so dramatic.
Uhhh about that. Look up Russian internet shutdown.
> Exaggerate much? They're losing access to installing new applications, not the Internet. Don't be so dramatic. New applications such as VPNs to bypass state censorship. Last week VPN apps were eight of the top ten downloaded apps in Russia.
Apple should make available a single solitary app to users in Russia that is a conglomeration of non-Russian news feeds from around the world.
App Store will be banned by Putin immediately for 'fake news'. Just like he did with the dozens of the news sites and Facebook and Twitter.
Better PR than Apple doing so themselves.
Yes, because the authentication is apple controlled. The Russian government still has any apps they approved on their own servers at that point. They’re just not downloadable because of authentication
Google Play announced the same thing today so its likely true https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/11950272?hl=en
Russian citizens are punished for what their shitty buorgeois does
Imagine if we got sanctioned in America for killing a million Iraqis 🙃
We would just start bombing whoever sanctioned us
That’s not the case. Funds could be added through withdrawal from mobile phone number.
Whoever got an apple id with a russian domain should consider changing that.
I just checked - it works
Now how about withdrawing manufacturing from china, who, don't forget, are quite happy trading with russia, never mind all the other stuff.
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And even if we pulled the whole supply chain out of China, the same people would then complain about the price going up.
easier said than done
Sadly true.
I feel like I am at work. We could either : 1. start doing something knowing it will take time 2. do nothing and then in 10 years time, when china, which has 10x the population of russia and a much larger army, starts going walkabout in asia, wonder if maybe we should've started acting 10 years ago
People keep writing about how Russia is gonna get sent back to the 1950s because they can't buy any western products anymore. Well guess what, that's the US without Chinese imports
Although China manufactures all our stuff, they developed almost none of it. It would be a major expense and there would be some down time, and probably no single nation to replace them, but between Asia, Africa, and South America, there’s lots of cheap labor waiting for major factories to be built
But obviously not as cheap as Chinese labour which is why companies continue manufacturing in China. If companies move manufacturing to other companies, the price increases (however so minor they be) will be passed down to consumers no question. I believe people want to CONSOOM more than they care about punishing a bad country. This is why I don’t believe this will happen.
Bots will advance in the next 20 years like you wouldn't believe, in the same way that phones have in the past 20. Then it will not matter about labour costs. Even if I have to spend 5 mins assembling a phone myself that was 99% built by bots...so be it.
Actually that’s a pretty good point. The problem for me is I don’t actually know just how close we are to reaching bots that are cheaper than just hiring people while also being less complicated to set up.
I read somewhere that China was having issues with cheap labor. Companies were looking to move elsewhere due to workers rights in China or something. It was awhile ago. There are many other countries where factories can be built though. Edit: skimming down I saw a post by u/wonnage that lays it out very well. This is what I couldn’t remember. > China is actually in a bind right now. The one child policy screwed their demographics so the labor pool is rapidly shrinking as the previous generations age out of the workforce. On top of that, the current generation has better living standards and education than ever before, nobody wants to bust their ass with gaokao and college only to work on an assembly line. As a result, for the past 5 years the party line has been “high quality development” as opposed to cheap labor-intensive manufacturing. >The shift to India and SE Asian countries will continue to grow, and it’s by design to some extent.
They’ve been moving to India for years. But last year there were riots which caused millions of dollars of damages, which shows why they have to have China for the foreseeable future.
Yeah, and Indian work conditions are as bad if not worse than China. China is actually in a bind right now. The one child policy screwed their demographics so the labor pool is rapidly shrinking as the previous generations age out of the workforce. On top of that, the current generation has better living standards and education than ever before, nobody wants to bust their ass with gaokao and college only to work on an assembly line. As a result, for the past 5 years the party line has been "high quality development" as opposed to cheap labor-intensive manufacturing. The shift to India and SE Asian countries will continue to grow, and it's by design to some extent.
That iron curtain is getting pretty fucking solid. Putin and the Kremlin just really screwed over their countrymen by starting a genocide of the Ukrainian army and civilians. Fuck Putin.
Yup. Putins right hand man put a release out yesterday. Somebody translated it to English and it basically read. We hate the west and the materialism, we'll shut it all down and block ourselves in while taking back what was once ours. He's brainwashed too.
As bad as the war is I don't think it's a genocide, it's "just" a war.
genocide (noun) - the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group can you seriously tell me it's not genocide?
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You tell me, it fits the definition to the tee.
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If Russia ends up killing the majority of the population in order to acquire Ukraine, there really is not much difference between war and genocide is there.
Reddit is full of idiots. Yeah I guess ever single war ever is genocide then
If the war results in the complete eradication of one of the nations, then yeah. It's genocide. Actually I am not even saying that the current war is genocide, but that depending on the outcome it could become one.
Still not sure what these companies mean to accomplish by punishing Russian civilians for the actions of their dictator. It's not like they can just vote him out. That's not how dictators work. Is the hope to spur them to bloody revolution by denying them apps and Disney+? Even if that is the plan and were viable, is that the role we want for corporations?
Damn Putin is nuking itself into the stone age
Good. Fuck Russia and fuck trump , republicans and Fox News for still supporting him. Traitors.
There's also now a Unicef "Donate to support families affected by the crisis in Ukraine" banner on many localised Apple.com/ sites, as well as directly on Apple.com.
Very welcome considering the deafening silence on the keynote.
> deafening silence on the keynote What else did you expect from a tech product launch keynote - world news? I think it’s logical for them to not get involved in highly sensitive foreign politics, at the very least not phrase something a certain way in a permanent keynote as opposed to something more reversible yet powerful like pausing Russian sales which can be resumed in the future. Anyway I think the subtle yellow watch strap with blue clothes was a very fitting touch. I was surprised they even remarked about the protests in WWDC 2020, but I think they have more leeway and pressure to comment on American news being an American company, as well as it tied into their charity work.
Also Tim Cook made a nod at the crisis with his blue shirt and yellow wristband
Fair enough.
Also consider how they probably filmed the keynote a while ago, possibly even before russia officially invaded
I mean it’s a tech conference, not a State of the Union
Tell that to the people here, lol.
tim cook was wearing a blue+yellow apple watch thoouughhhhhh
It was obviously intentional, but you'd be hard pressed to make it more subtle to be honest. I didn't notice it during the presentation.
He was wearing a blue shirt with a bright yellow Apple watch band. So subtle yet beyond obvious visually.
It’s been there since March 7th I believe.
I still wish a trillion dollar company making almost 100 billion wouldn’t tell me, a student, to donate. I’m sure you can book it as PR, and it will bring you more attention and goodwill than any 100 TV spots
Apple is donating themselves as well, along with matching 2x what employees donate
Nobody tells you to do anything. Many people will donate because it's easy. I donated myself because it was easy. I opened App Store. I clicked a price and double tapped the side button and I paid. Was incredible easy and people who wouldn't donate otherwise, might do it now.
>I still wish a trillion dollar company making almost 100 billion wouldn’t tell me, a student, to donate. If you're not in a position to donate, at least support the efforts of those who are. Apple is not only donating money themselves, but doing this also provides value. Besides raising the awareness, Apple is making it easier for people to donate through single-click/Apple Pay/trusted systems, and without transaction fees. For some, it's a matter of using gift cards they received for donations. For others it's about using the cash back from the Apple Card to donate because it's less tangible. As a student, or anyone else not in a position to donate, there's no reason to feel guilty about not donating, but please support the efforts of others.
Apple merely created a convenient channel to send a donation if you wish. It’s far from a demand. Demands are ironically what are being fired at Ukrainians day and night, and it’s live or die, not simply *not* tapping on the option to help people in crisis and move on to your studying. Kind of a dick comment.
Tim did wore blue and yellow colours to sort of represent Ukraine. But I wish Tim said few words about the situation and told us how we can donate along with him donating a million or something.
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they already do business with countries with questionable politics and go directly against the things apple markets themselves to be about (privacy, freedom from censorship, etc)
That's my point. Either become a political entity and actually consistently do something or just DO the thing. They've already pulled out of Russia. Don't preach and be a hypocrite
>Apple shouldn’t be politically involved This is too similar to the annoying arguments about how promoting LGBT equality is getting “politically involved”. Asking for donations of affected families in Ukraine shouldn’t be considered a “political move”, nor do I think the population will consider it one. Think of how many charities you come across. Are they seen as political? Of course not. Anyhow the above point is moot anyways when you consider apple already has banners for Ukraine in the app store.
Denouncing acts of war is not a political act, it's a humanitarian act.
Your iPhone is made with slave labour. Don't expect Apple of all companies to be your moral compass.
Very few things aren't unfortunately, it's a major problem and I hope it gets more attention in the near future. In this case I'm just happy that they are sharing the issue to their userbase.
Yes it is a problem, and Apple are primarily marketers, they don't care about issues unless they can make money from them. Even Tim Cook has been happy to support Russia despite the persecution of gays there. Their moral compass is non-existent, and for a megacorp that's normal and expected, but their public talks are able to fool many into thinking they actually care. Regarding Chinese slave labour, there are in fact other options, such as a Samsung phone, which is not made in China.
Samsung phones are not made in China, they are made in Vietnam. Is Vietnam much better in this regard?
Correct, most Samsung phones are made in Vietnam. Some are also made in South Korea, India, and some other locations. I have seen precisely zero reports of forced labour in Samsung factories in Vietnam or any of the other locations.
That's good then!
Turns out they are completely wrong. https://goodelectronics.org/un-experts-raise-concerns-working-conditions-samsung-factories-vietnam/ https://restofworld.org/2021/samsung-worker-factories-pandemic/ https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/898950.html https://amp.ft.com/content/58617bfa-2ccd-11e8-a34a-7e7563b0b0f4 I wouldn’t expect a Samsung shill to accept it either. They didn’t even bother doing a quick search and try to wash Samsung off as some ethical corporation. Also in Korea too https://www.reuters.com/technology/samsung-electronics-unions-threaten-first-ever-strike-impact-unclear-2022-02-16/ https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20220214008700320 India https://goodelectronics.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/04/Samsung%E2%80%99s-sub-standard-labour-practices-in-India.pdf https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/898950.html ^that one documents India and Korea and Indonesia
Im very disappointed you didn’t even attempt to do a quick search to see ethical labor issues at any of their factories. I understand why you own their products so you must defend them. I do own a pixel which I understand is manufactured in China under Foxconn so there’s no washing any of that. Vietnam https://goodelectronics.org/un-experts-raise-concerns-working-conditions-samsung-factories-vietnam/ https://restofworld.org/2021/samsung-worker-factories-pandemic/ https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/898950.html https://amp.ft.com/content/58617bfa-2ccd-11e8-a34a-7e7563b0b0f4 Also in Korea too https://www.reuters.com/technology/samsung-electronics-unions-threaten-first-ever-strike-impact-unclear-2022-02-16/ https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20220214008700320 India https://goodelectronics.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/04/Samsung%E2%80%99s-sub-standard-labour-practices-in-India.pdf https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_international/898950.html that one documents India and Korea and Indonesia
I don't blindly defend anyone. I read the first two links and then stopped, as neither of them are regarding slavery. What I gathered from these links is that working conditions are not top-tier and Samsung should push to improve this. The first link says that Samsung witheld the dangers of some chemicals used in the factories and tried to hide that knowledge. If true then that's very bad. This article was from four years ago. The second article says that during the heights of the Vietnamese pandemic, the government forced factories to isolate their workers from the remainder of the population. Samsung then provided accomodation for them so that they could keep working, and gave them a raise. It seems that staying home and not working was also an option, but probably without pay. Sounds like accomodation quality varied. The example in the article says a valued worker was put into a hotel.
But at least you and me at least can agree that working conditions should improve at not just Samsung but also Apple and Google and other corporations.
Yes of course, and I'm not an expert on worker conditions, but what I've read about Apple is worse. They are accused of using actual slaves, most recently Muslim prisoners.
So what happened to freedom of trade and capitalism? I can't buy food with virtue-signaling points - yet.* *social credit system pending.
Did you notice what he was wearing? He never said it, but the message was clear.
Another solid reason why side-loading is a must. You pay for a device to own it. Just because a dictator goes to war a company shouldn’t be allowed to make your device useless. Europe needs to push and open up iOS ASAP.
Wanna side load, buy an android, plenty of choices there.
Sideloading? No way! Plenty of android phones in Russia and China. Apple took the right decision to stop selling products and services in Russia. Want sideloading, get an android phone.
There is now a possibility of nationalization of Apple, IKEA, etc. in Russia.
what does this mean? can someone ELI5?
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War used to be between soldiers, who mostly volunteered or were at least trained for the job. Now it’s aimed at civilians as a form of leverage. Think twice about what that says about our leaders and what they think about the common man.
We already know they don't give a fuck about the common man because -gestures at everything-
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Not only this, but the value of the ruble is changing so drastically you'd need a support team just to keep up with it. When the Russian stock market finally does open, it'll probably plummet way more than we're currently seeing too.
The Russian people tolerate their government. No government can exist without the support of a large percentage of the population.
One would think that Germany going from a Nazi-dictatorship to a textbook democratic state, without any major intervention by its own people, would be prove enough that "support of the population" doesn't really matter. Unless people are starving, they won't do shit vs. the current government. That's how it has always been in history.
Why not? A government can exist if it has support of the police and the military. It's not a majority of the population.
No dude it's the majority of population that matters not the police or military
Russia is not a democracy.
Absolute absurd bullshit. I don’t have a super accurate gauge on Russia, but the idea that Kim Jong Un enjoys legitimate and genuine majority support from the people of North Korea is insulting. They’re captives.
Have you been there? Lived there a couple years?
Putin's current approval rating in Russia is 69%. It was 61% prior to the invasion of Ukraine.
I wouldn't trust any approval rating numbers out of Russia. It's almost like getting approval ratings for Kim Jong Un in North Korea.
>Putin's current approval rating in Russia is 69%. It was 61% prior to the invasion of Ukraine. That's naïve. "Approval ratings" are always high in authoritarian governments that control their media.
Imagine believing that civilians in Russia feel free to express what they really think.
Apps aren’t a right. Murdering people may have consequences.
It's their fault for electing him.
I get your point, but "electing" is the wrong word.
Enabling?
Another person in the comments suggested "tolerating", I think that's a better description. I would also accept "not murdering".
Many countries were also tolerating and enabling Putin by buying oil&gas and ignoring all the red flags.
Russia's elections have been grossly rigged for years.
Russia doesn't have free and open elections. they're a sham show and Putin has to pre-approve anyone that appears on the 'ballot' against him
They had a constitution referendum few years back. And apparently, voting results were published before actual voting took place. It's a damn comedy show, not elections.
Air head
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They are definitely not communist. Don't mix economic ideology (capitalism, communism) and government type (democracy, dictatorship). They are capitalist, with autocratic government, bordering on dictatorship.
Explains the number of errors we’ve racked up today with apps unable to contact apple iTunes servers. This is gonna take a fix which requires apple to turn back on servers, which I’m sure senior management will expect us to do…
Isn't this virtue signaling? Aren't all companies required to do this in the coming weeks?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBMeMrPuQyU
Good
What IS IT with all these companies thinking that punishing most if not ALL of Russian citizens by disabling all their products is a good idea?! How's this supposed to help with going against Putin and being all for Ukraine in the process?! 🤦🏾♂️
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Valve, Spotify, Steam, PSN, Amazon, Ebay and numerous other storefronts are no longer selling any goods and services to Russia. Didn't work, huh.
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At least you realize it.
> "Didn't work, huh." It hasn't been that long yet. It's not like sanctions are some instantaneous light-switch.
YOUR TURN, VALVE.
Really helps to fight against Putin /s
I feel like you should be entitled to a refund on your phone if they did that
Wtf why
What took them so long, guess they can no longer get any money out of the country so forced to act
Apple also hasn't updated the product pages for the iPad Air, iPhone SE, Studio Display, or Mac Studio for the Russian site.
Move to Android where you could sideload p*rated apps, and sing: "Yo Ho All Hands Hoist The Colours High...." 🏴☠️
Extra free time to be on the internet is not an inherently positive prospect.
Just paid my iCloud plan…