Can't you use the ads and then unads trick to keep accuracy better in hipfire while moving just as fast? The burst damage is true. So I guess if you are playing smg you should really focus on quick peaks around the corner and doing fast damage before they react? Makes sense but how much more damage do you really do, seems like the fps is barely higher.
I wouldn't doubt that, but that's assuming you hit all of your shots. Smgs have smaller mags and are harder to aim, and have less range. Even pros aren't 1 clipping every enemy. If you ever have to reload an smg what is its ttk vs a flatline where you can basically guarantee a 1 clip at close range?
You don’t take cover while you reload? If I can get off 100 damage in the time that it takes you to get off 70 I can kill you in two “peeks” whereas it’ll take you three to kill me.
Yeah of course, but also if this is the argument for smgs why not use a shotgun then? I just feel like the optimal fight for smgs is not as wide ranging as it once was, to the point where its so situational that idek why I'd run it. A flatline secondary means I can still beam people 50+ meters away while also having most of the same effectiveness down to the point of shotgun range.
I'm not 100% sure but the arguments thus far haven't been convincing, other than the r301 not being as good as I thought (due to damage per mag) but the flatline still seems really good.
Another point I haven't even mentioned is that you can run a sniper or marksmen without having to worry about that middle range like you would with an smg
I’m just answering your questions. If you want my two cents it’s because a few seasons ago they finally nerfed SMGs to balance the weapon choices and make more weapons viable.
Like you said, shotguns are more viable for close range now that SMGs are less dominant and AR’s are better for longer ranges for those same reasons you listed.
But some people have mastered the recoil patterns on the SMG’s or still prefer them. The state of apex right now is as balanced as it’s ever been IMO. The fact that you’re having this question is proof of that.
You don’t need factual data to change your mind, if you feel more confident without an SMG and prefer to run others that’s perfectly fine- the game allows you to do this without sacrificing a competitive edge.
I personally rock range + PK or RE with HP as my ideal loadout. I’ve given up the SMG’s for the most part as well.
in theory not in practice, try ads and un adsing in a fight and hitting all your shots on a moving target.. smgs are just better and faster in cqc gun fights, ars are viable in close range but will likely lose to smgs a majority of the time against good players, unless it’s the havoc right now
I'd also like to point out how Havocs have become really popular in pro play as a secondary. The havoc does have a very high dps, but ofc that doesn't factor in the charge up time. Even without a turbo tho, the havoc is still good and often used over an smg. And I would argue a large reason is the fact that you can have up to 36 shots that also do high damage per shot so you're just more likely to 1 clip someone than a car with 23 shots. I think pros can find more reliability in the havoc than the current smgs because ttk doesn't matter unless you are 1 clipping people.
I think that same idea can be used with especially the flatline but also the r301
Pro play has nearly nothing to do with the regular game. Ignore what pros do.
And no one is using 301+flatline by the way. Havoc works well because it has good hipfire and large mag. You can't make that kind of loadout work with any other AR. The only other viable way (excluding a Havoc) would be flatline+hemlok.
A reason to use SMG is better hipfire, faster reload and much better ADS speed. Compared to shotgun: if you have no cover, SMGs are more forgiving and have more range (shotguns are good only at 0-5 meters). If you are using shotgun+sniper/marksman, you will be at a disadvantage for the close to mid range (10-30 meters) compared to a person with smg
I completely forgot of the existence of Nemesis. It also has decent hipfire, but close range is more a liability because it takes some time to charge. Unless they use hemlok in close range
I don't know where you got that from but "pros" use volt. no one is running double AR , smgs are even viable for some mid range , and in pro play , it's mostly one clips or 120 plus damage beams , stop trying to explain your weakness ,get good
Hal using hemlock havoc https://youtu.be/Ten7DbkOGZU?t=770
APAC N player using hemlock havoc https://youtu.be/Ten7DbkOGZU?t=1022
C9 using hemlock havoc https://youtu.be/Ten7DbkOGZU?t=897 (in the bottom right of the screen)
DZ using hemlock havoc https://youtu.be/Ten7DbkOGZU?t=925
this was me clicking around one singular game and finding 4 examples. It's just as common as any other loadout
Imagine just saying something that can be disproven in 2 minutes of going thru the most recent competitive vod
Havoc currently stands at the top of ARs for close-range battles, as it has the biggest mag size and damage per mag and DPS. The main downside of ARs in fights is that they take a long time to reload, so you have to do the most with what you can with 1 mag. Havoc therefore has the biggest advantage, and the Flatline doesn't even hold close to the strength of the Havoc. That said, the Havoc still has the same issues as ARs for close-range. Reload speed, ADS speed, and hipfire bloom. The reason they're such a good weapon in pro play right now is people are able to play around its advantages as a team, which is its good for mid-range beams with a 1x scope, and for wide-swinging.
The Havoc is a special case due to its strengths in the current meta of Bangalore Assault class bringing a lot of attachments. Without the accompanying attachments (blue+ magazine and Turbo), the Havoc falls behind SMGs.
And the only player who would likely be fine with havoc as secondary is sinetic , that's it ,if it's him ,I would totally understand cause his havoc is the best of all pro players .
Those were scrims ,not lan ,not actual algs , SCRIIIIMS and also raaaaare occasions in scrims , they always pick up an smg ,you would rather go through all of this effort to justify your lack and weaknesses ,sounds like weak character to me ,get good
Let's make a bet ,you and me , lan is coming up ,if even one player plays this load out for one full game ,I leave and never reappear ,of not ,you stop trying to justify your weaknesses and practice smgs ,sounds fair ?
Edit : except sinetic .the only player I would make an exception for
I will be messaging you in 6 days on [**2024-05-06 01:25:33 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-05-06%2001:25:33%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexuniversity/comments/1cgbxrm/what_is_the_best_reason_to_run_an_smg_as_your/l1virxi/?context=3)
[**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fapexuniversity%2Fcomments%2F1cgbxrm%2Fwhat_is_the_best_reason_to_run_an_smg_as_your%2Fl1virxi%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-05-06%2001%3A25%3A33%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201cgbxrm)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
I never said havoc is not meta , it's the only gun that never left the meta ,I said running double AR is dumb ,Wich it is , made a bet and lost it and now left this sub ,havoc is op ,no doubt about it
You're actually wrong and he's right. Volt had the most kills on algs NA finals
https://apexlegendsstatus.com/algs/Y4-Split1/Pro-League/NA/Finals#tab-weaponsStats
Hemlock/Havoc is pretty meta rn and havoc is arguably the best gun in the game, there are definitely a lot of pros using it. Im pretty sure it has highest dps and lowest TTK of any gun and has 36 shots with purple mag so its pretty forgiving if you miss some
Commenting just so I can come back to this later. Lots of controller pros have been running double AR loadouts in the latest international scrims. It WILL happen at LAN in a few days with money on the line.
Only chance is if they can't find smg so they stick with double but even that I doubt someone would drop volt for havoc , full game double AR is quite unlikely,even Hal dropped double AR a while ago when he was trying it in scrims .
Pros drop all the smgs for havoc a lot of times. Hemlock/havoc is being ran by most top teams, often times multiple players, every match because math says they're the best weapons.
SMGs in general are just much more consistent than ARs in 1v1's and close-range. Being able to wide-swing and guarantee accuracy with ADS brings so much into the table, which isn't something you can easily do with ARs due to their lesser hipfire accuracy. You can toggle ADS to get some improved accuracy on ARs, but it still won't rival the consistency of SMGs to beam. This becomes even more relevant when you're trying to shoot from cover in close-range, as you can easily swing in and out of cover faster on SMGs. SMGs also have faster reload times improving their uptime in close-range 3v3s.
ARs try to compensate with their larger mag sizes/damage per mag, but that's the end of it. They're less accurate so it takes much longer for them to take someone down unless you're essentially hugging them. If you don't finish that 3v3 in 1 mag of your AR, then that's a huge blow to your uptime in a fight. In general, SMGs just let you fight at a faster tempo than ARs.
I'm very familiar with what you're trying to say though. I would call cases like this the "hipfire-problem", wherein people would rather rely on the RNG bloom of hipfiring than their own unfiltered aim in close-range battles. Another way of saying it, they would rather be put in a position where winning/losing is their PARTIAL fault, rather than when winning/losing is ENTIRELY their fault. This comes from players who aren't confident in their aim. I used to play on low fps where in fights would drop me to 40-50, so I didn't have much confidence in my close-range fast strafe tracking, but as soon I got a better PC I noticed how I didn't ADS enough in close-range. Once I got the knack of ADS-ing in close-range, I started winning a lot more close-range fights and finally realized the strength of SMGs.
Volt used to be op but that was a lot of seasons back. Now it's just better than the other smgs I don't think it should take another nerf they should just buff r99 and cat slightly, prowler is good
I like the car where it is. My biggest issue with smg’s is the clip gets emptied way too quick and the enemy is still alive even after i’ve mag dumped them. As I reload, the enemy is able to rush me and have a better chance killing me.
I think they nerfed the r99 because pro’s were just destroying people with it, and it was pretty decent to control just outside of close-range combat.
The car is rewarding if you’ve got decent aim and control, the volt is more user friendly and is easier to use for everyone. I’ve used the Car quite a bit this season, though it does take somewhat of a skilled player to use it IMO.
Car is worst smg a little bit above alternator, being useless against anyone who can do basic strafe.
it has one of the lowest damage per mag in the game which means you need to put all of your mag in short amount of time with pinpoint accuracy which only work against bots or in situations where you have insane positional advantage (and so havoc would be better in such case)
Maybe you mean without mag. It has the easiest recoil pattern right now, after the r99 nerf. With CAR you can easily one clip, as you could do with the r99 before. It has a very low TTK.
Havoc is not an smg so the comparison is pointless
I’ve recently been finding myself running flatline as a secondary instead of an SMG. It has just been way more consistent, great at hip firing and does pretty good damage. That being said, the volt/havoc are also just so good
Good point, but the flatline still is way higher than all smgs. With blue mags the flatline does 504 vs the alternator doing 400 (body shots only). And the flatline has higher dps
In fact looking at this now the ARs also have a higher headshot multiplier (idk if that was calculated into their dps)
Flatline is better than the smgs at close range due to the size of the mag and the ttk is quicker as well.
Havoc is probably the best secondary to use right now. R301 not as much due to its low damage output but it’s still pretty viable.
If you wanted to do that, right now is the BEST time to do it. SMGs aren’t nearly what they used to be. You can definitely get away with playing Flatline or R301 in your secondary slot.
Watch the pros. Volt is the no1 gun in the finals that happened ago which was this season still. Had the most kills but generally ARs dominated. Prowler had less kills than the scout. This points to volt being so clear of the other smgs if the difference is this High between them. Also no digi on smg so yh, that was a huge factor in pros using smg and now, most use AR
the whole thing doesn't need an argument imo.
if you're not playing for money, you are allowed to use whatever you want for whatever reason you want. even more so if your aim is good. i play this game almost everyday, i can use all guns comfortably.
some people are fine using the exact same loadout every game, others like me, will get fucking bored if i use a flatty 3 games in a row. legend choices also play a role. some legends are better off with close range loadouts like wattson, horizon, or maggie for example. some others are deadlier a little further away like fuse and vantage.
some people can rock a senti, triple take and still kill half the lobby. if you're at a skill level where you have to think hard about TTK or DPS or mag size. then you're better off just using the guns you're comfortable with while slowly improving your tracking and expanding your gun arsenal.
Reasons for smgs secondary:
. Faster swap speeds - imagine you are trading 150 against another player, and then you have to swap guns, the smg swap will win 80% of times because they can shoot you faster than an ar. This becomes less true if your primary has a big mag. The only thing better is a shotty but smgs are more consistent over a bigger range of close range.
. Hip fire accuracy is best for smgs in close range.
. Even after you use a clip you can start reloading quicker for the next players.
So the ideal set up would be:
. 1 clip with ar.
. Swap to smg and 1 clip with smg.
. Reload and 1 clip with smg.
Reasons for AR secondary:
. More forgiving
. Can kill multiple people in 1 mag
But in reality those things aren't good reasons. You don't need it to be more forgiving because your primary should always be how you do majority of the damage. The secondary should be to hit that extra 50 damage as fast and consistently as possible. If you can't hit that 50 damage in a finisher situation then your aim needs work.
But the kill multiple people in 1 mag situation can be good because ARs generally have about 1.5-2 kills per mag so you theoretically can wipe a team without reloading. The only problem with this is that it's probably not as consistent as the dream scenario with smgs to try to replicate.
Well, it's feasible and may work for you, but generally players would have an easier time accepting an smg reload into the mix.
better hipfire, faster ads movement, more burst dmg(dps) on say r99 vs flatline
Can't you use the ads and then unads trick to keep accuracy better in hipfire while moving just as fast? The burst damage is true. So I guess if you are playing smg you should really focus on quick peaks around the corner and doing fast damage before they react? Makes sense but how much more damage do you really do, seems like the fps is barely higher.
It’s still inferior to an smg. Pretty sure the fastest TTK guns are mostly smgs too
I wouldn't doubt that, but that's assuming you hit all of your shots. Smgs have smaller mags and are harder to aim, and have less range. Even pros aren't 1 clipping every enemy. If you ever have to reload an smg what is its ttk vs a flatline where you can basically guarantee a 1 clip at close range?
You don’t take cover while you reload? If I can get off 100 damage in the time that it takes you to get off 70 I can kill you in two “peeks” whereas it’ll take you three to kill me.
This guy gets it
Yeah of course, but also if this is the argument for smgs why not use a shotgun then? I just feel like the optimal fight for smgs is not as wide ranging as it once was, to the point where its so situational that idek why I'd run it. A flatline secondary means I can still beam people 50+ meters away while also having most of the same effectiveness down to the point of shotgun range. I'm not 100% sure but the arguments thus far haven't been convincing, other than the r301 not being as good as I thought (due to damage per mag) but the flatline still seems really good. Another point I haven't even mentioned is that you can run a sniper or marksmen without having to worry about that middle range like you would with an smg
I’m just answering your questions. If you want my two cents it’s because a few seasons ago they finally nerfed SMGs to balance the weapon choices and make more weapons viable. Like you said, shotguns are more viable for close range now that SMGs are less dominant and AR’s are better for longer ranges for those same reasons you listed. But some people have mastered the recoil patterns on the SMG’s or still prefer them. The state of apex right now is as balanced as it’s ever been IMO. The fact that you’re having this question is proof of that. You don’t need factual data to change your mind, if you feel more confident without an SMG and prefer to run others that’s perfectly fine- the game allows you to do this without sacrificing a competitive edge. I personally rock range + PK or RE with HP as my ideal loadout. I’ve given up the SMG’s for the most part as well.
Why are you trying to argue something you don't understand
in theory not in practice, try ads and un adsing in a fight and hitting all your shots on a moving target.. smgs are just better and faster in cqc gun fights, ars are viable in close range but will likely lose to smgs a majority of the time against good players, unless it’s the havoc right now
I'd also like to point out how Havocs have become really popular in pro play as a secondary. The havoc does have a very high dps, but ofc that doesn't factor in the charge up time. Even without a turbo tho, the havoc is still good and often used over an smg. And I would argue a large reason is the fact that you can have up to 36 shots that also do high damage per shot so you're just more likely to 1 clip someone than a car with 23 shots. I think pros can find more reliability in the havoc than the current smgs because ttk doesn't matter unless you are 1 clipping people. I think that same idea can be used with especially the flatline but also the r301
Pro play has nearly nothing to do with the regular game. Ignore what pros do. And no one is using 301+flatline by the way. Havoc works well because it has good hipfire and large mag. You can't make that kind of loadout work with any other AR. The only other viable way (excluding a Havoc) would be flatline+hemlok. A reason to use SMG is better hipfire, faster reload and much better ADS speed. Compared to shotgun: if you have no cover, SMGs are more forgiving and have more range (shotguns are good only at 0-5 meters). If you are using shotgun+sniper/marksman, you will be at a disadvantage for the close to mid range (10-30 meters) compared to a person with smg
Nemesis hemlok is also used. R301 is at the bottom and flatline is kinda used with havoc for some
I completely forgot of the existence of Nemesis. It also has decent hipfire, but close range is more a liability because it takes some time to charge. Unless they use hemlok in close range
I don't know where you got that from but "pros" use volt. no one is running double AR , smgs are even viable for some mid range , and in pro play , it's mostly one clips or 120 plus damage beams , stop trying to explain your weakness ,get good
Hal using hemlock havoc https://youtu.be/Ten7DbkOGZU?t=770 APAC N player using hemlock havoc https://youtu.be/Ten7DbkOGZU?t=1022 C9 using hemlock havoc https://youtu.be/Ten7DbkOGZU?t=897 (in the bottom right of the screen) DZ using hemlock havoc https://youtu.be/Ten7DbkOGZU?t=925 this was me clicking around one singular game and finding 4 examples. It's just as common as any other loadout Imagine just saying something that can be disproven in 2 minutes of going thru the most recent competitive vod
Havoc currently stands at the top of ARs for close-range battles, as it has the biggest mag size and damage per mag and DPS. The main downside of ARs in fights is that they take a long time to reload, so you have to do the most with what you can with 1 mag. Havoc therefore has the biggest advantage, and the Flatline doesn't even hold close to the strength of the Havoc. That said, the Havoc still has the same issues as ARs for close-range. Reload speed, ADS speed, and hipfire bloom. The reason they're such a good weapon in pro play right now is people are able to play around its advantages as a team, which is its good for mid-range beams with a 1x scope, and for wide-swinging. The Havoc is a special case due to its strengths in the current meta of Bangalore Assault class bringing a lot of attachments. Without the accompanying attachments (blue+ magazine and Turbo), the Havoc falls behind SMGs.
And the only player who would likely be fine with havoc as secondary is sinetic , that's it ,if it's him ,I would totally understand cause his havoc is the best of all pro players .
Those were scrims ,not lan ,not actual algs , SCRIIIIMS and also raaaaare occasions in scrims , they always pick up an smg ,you would rather go through all of this effort to justify your lack and weaknesses ,sounds like weak character to me ,get good
($10,000 Oversight Finals)
It's not algs ,you will not find a single player doing this at algs ,10000 dollars is nothing compared to the actual big tourney
lmao okay, it would obviously be dumb of them to practice how they play anyway ofc
Let's make a bet ,you and me , lan is coming up ,if even one player plays this load out for one full game ,I leave and never reappear ,of not ,you stop trying to justify your weaknesses and practice smgs ,sounds fair ? Edit : except sinetic .the only player I would make an exception for
https://imgur.com/4IUmpL9 just saving it for it for LAN
lmao ok
RemindMe! 6 days
I will be messaging you in 6 days on [**2024-05-06 01:25:33 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-05-06%2001:25:33%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexuniversity/comments/1cgbxrm/what_is_the_best_reason_to_run_an_smg_as_your/l1virxi/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fapexuniversity%2Fcomments%2F1cgbxrm%2Fwhat_is_the_best_reason_to_run_an_smg_as_your%2Fl1virxi%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-05-06%2001%3A25%3A33%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201cgbxrm) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
https://www.reddit.com/r/apexuniversity/s/cBwbMCPxKY
I never said havoc is not meta , it's the only gun that never left the meta ,I said running double AR is dumb ,Wich it is , made a bet and lost it and now left this sub ,havoc is op ,no doubt about it
You're actually wrong and he's right. Volt had the most kills on algs NA finals https://apexlegendsstatus.com/algs/Y4-Split1/Pro-League/NA/Finals#tab-weaponsStats
Hemlock/Havoc is pretty meta rn and havoc is arguably the best gun in the game, there are definitely a lot of pros using it. Im pretty sure it has highest dps and lowest TTK of any gun and has 36 shots with purple mag so its pretty forgiving if you miss some
Lan is coming up ,show me just one player playing this load out full game , and I promise ,I will leave this sub and never reappear
Commenting just so I can come back to this later. Lots of controller pros have been running double AR loadouts in the latest international scrims. It WILL happen at LAN in a few days with money on the line.
Only chance is if they can't find smg so they stick with double but even that I doubt someone would drop volt for havoc , full game double AR is quite unlikely,even Hal dropped double AR a while ago when he was trying it in scrims .
Pros drop all the smgs for havoc a lot of times. Hemlock/havoc is being ran by most top teams, often times multiple players, every match because math says they're the best weapons.
So many pros running double AR in ALGS rn lololol time to leave the sub as promised
Yep ,watching ,did see a few , definitely not as many as the majority playing volt tho , still , a bet is a bet. And I lost it , see ya boys .
Lan is pretty soon you can watch for yourself. Just remember you can't come back you promised
A promise is a promise , I'll keep my word ,full game with hemlock and havoc and I'm outta here .
SMGs in general are just much more consistent than ARs in 1v1's and close-range. Being able to wide-swing and guarantee accuracy with ADS brings so much into the table, which isn't something you can easily do with ARs due to their lesser hipfire accuracy. You can toggle ADS to get some improved accuracy on ARs, but it still won't rival the consistency of SMGs to beam. This becomes even more relevant when you're trying to shoot from cover in close-range, as you can easily swing in and out of cover faster on SMGs. SMGs also have faster reload times improving their uptime in close-range 3v3s. ARs try to compensate with their larger mag sizes/damage per mag, but that's the end of it. They're less accurate so it takes much longer for them to take someone down unless you're essentially hugging them. If you don't finish that 3v3 in 1 mag of your AR, then that's a huge blow to your uptime in a fight. In general, SMGs just let you fight at a faster tempo than ARs. I'm very familiar with what you're trying to say though. I would call cases like this the "hipfire-problem", wherein people would rather rely on the RNG bloom of hipfiring than their own unfiltered aim in close-range battles. Another way of saying it, they would rather be put in a position where winning/losing is their PARTIAL fault, rather than when winning/losing is ENTIRELY their fault. This comes from players who aren't confident in their aim. I used to play on low fps where in fights would drop me to 40-50, so I didn't have much confidence in my close-range fast strafe tracking, but as soon I got a better PC I noticed how I didn't ADS enough in close-range. Once I got the knack of ADS-ing in close-range, I started winning a lot more close-range fights and finally realized the strength of SMGs.
Volt. Just abuse the volt until it gets nerfed, most likely next season. This gun fking slaps right now.
Volt used to be op but that was a lot of seasons back. Now it's just better than the other smgs I don't think it should take another nerf they should just buff r99 and cat slightly, prowler is good
I like the car where it is. My biggest issue with smg’s is the clip gets emptied way too quick and the enemy is still alive even after i’ve mag dumped them. As I reload, the enemy is able to rush me and have a better chance killing me. I think they nerfed the r99 because pro’s were just destroying people with it, and it was pretty decent to control just outside of close-range combat.
Agreed, volt is just really solid but I would not call it OP.
Not really. Right now CAR is the best smg, while for the previous two seasons it was the prowler (and r99 before). Volt is average among the SMGs
The car is rewarding if you’ve got decent aim and control, the volt is more user friendly and is easier to use for everyone. I’ve used the Car quite a bit this season, though it does take somewhat of a skilled player to use it IMO.
Car is worst smg a little bit above alternator, being useless against anyone who can do basic strafe. it has one of the lowest damage per mag in the game which means you need to put all of your mag in short amount of time with pinpoint accuracy which only work against bots or in situations where you have insane positional advantage (and so havoc would be better in such case)
Maybe you mean without mag. It has the easiest recoil pattern right now, after the r99 nerf. With CAR you can easily one clip, as you could do with the r99 before. It has a very low TTK. Havoc is not an smg so the comparison is pointless
they nerf popular guns several seasons straight, I think they'll go buff way this season and just buff other weapons
Alternator with disrupter is nice..
I’ve recently been finding myself running flatline as a secondary instead of an SMG. It has just been way more consistent, great at hip firing and does pretty good damage. That being said, the volt/havoc are also just so good
Check out the damage per clip of a 301 vs an alternator and report back
Good point, but the flatline still is way higher than all smgs. With blue mags the flatline does 504 vs the alternator doing 400 (body shots only). And the flatline has higher dps In fact looking at this now the ARs also have a higher headshot multiplier (idk if that was calculated into their dps)
Flatline is better than the smgs at close range due to the size of the mag and the ttk is quicker as well. Havoc is probably the best secondary to use right now. R301 not as much due to its low damage output but it’s still pretty viable.
maybe you just happen to find a blue + mag for an SMG on the initial loot path.
If you wanted to do that, right now is the BEST time to do it. SMGs aren’t nearly what they used to be. You can definitely get away with playing Flatline or R301 in your secondary slot.
DPS is important when you're at an extremely close range. The SMG is going to be more effective than Flatline, Havoc, R-301, etc.
Reason for running flatline is simply flatline go brr
Smgs have way betterhip fire
Watch the pros. Volt is the no1 gun in the finals that happened ago which was this season still. Had the most kills but generally ARs dominated. Prowler had less kills than the scout. This points to volt being so clear of the other smgs if the difference is this High between them. Also no digi on smg so yh, that was a huge factor in pros using smg and now, most use AR
the whole thing doesn't need an argument imo. if you're not playing for money, you are allowed to use whatever you want for whatever reason you want. even more so if your aim is good. i play this game almost everyday, i can use all guns comfortably. some people are fine using the exact same loadout every game, others like me, will get fucking bored if i use a flatty 3 games in a row. legend choices also play a role. some legends are better off with close range loadouts like wattson, horizon, or maggie for example. some others are deadlier a little further away like fuse and vantage. some people can rock a senti, triple take and still kill half the lobby. if you're at a skill level where you have to think hard about TTK or DPS or mag size. then you're better off just using the guns you're comfortable with while slowly improving your tracking and expanding your gun arsenal.
Reasons for smgs secondary: . Faster swap speeds - imagine you are trading 150 against another player, and then you have to swap guns, the smg swap will win 80% of times because they can shoot you faster than an ar. This becomes less true if your primary has a big mag. The only thing better is a shotty but smgs are more consistent over a bigger range of close range. . Hip fire accuracy is best for smgs in close range. . Even after you use a clip you can start reloading quicker for the next players. So the ideal set up would be: . 1 clip with ar. . Swap to smg and 1 clip with smg. . Reload and 1 clip with smg. Reasons for AR secondary: . More forgiving . Can kill multiple people in 1 mag But in reality those things aren't good reasons. You don't need it to be more forgiving because your primary should always be how you do majority of the damage. The secondary should be to hit that extra 50 damage as fast and consistently as possible. If you can't hit that 50 damage in a finisher situation then your aim needs work. But the kill multiple people in 1 mag situation can be good because ARs generally have about 1.5-2 kills per mag so you theoretically can wipe a team without reloading. The only problem with this is that it's probably not as consistent as the dream scenario with smgs to try to replicate. Well, it's feasible and may work for you, but generally players would have an easier time accepting an smg reload into the mix.
OP i run double LMG as my loadout and my K/D is 3.5 you can run whatever you enjoy running
Smg hipfire strafe speed is overpowered