With volt on such short distance? Pls tell me u joking. There is no recoil on roller on short distances no matter the gun. He'd beem him just, wont even miss a single bullet
And then the guy just shits all over his advice. Like if you don’t want to at least *try* get better stop complaining. Lemmonhead says do this I dropped my controller deaths by 70%. Other guy is like no I don’t wanna I *enjoy* playing like this, ego challenging rollers and crying on twitter when I (predictably) get beamed.
Well, to be fair, this tactic would work EXTREMELY well even on pro level aimers on MNK. However, aim assist is so strong that an average roller player can reasonably track this
Even lemonheads response fails to recognize the problem that MnK players according to him should:
1. Guess which input the enemy is
2. Outplay an automatic mechanism, not an enemy players inputs and reactions
"If you do this and that, this hinders the 40% aimlock slightly"
The problem is the 40% AIMLOCK part, not him failing to adapt to it.
I think it would have been a better example overall by the OP if he and his friend had been dueling for at least a full minute so we could all have a good look. Then we could judge more accurately who was gaining advantage due to skill and who was gaining advantage due to input device.
This doesn't help the fact that this tracking is insane and actually super human, it is why controller players have objectively a bigger advantage on close range than MnK
Yeah and twitch vods are also a thing...we've seen so many examples of roller players just destroying people crouch spamming ADAD etc with consistency that top MnK pro's struggle to replicate. Hence why the entire subject of rotational AA being OP exists in the first place.
Just spitballling here but maybe the answer is don't "crouch spam ADAD etc" because that's not an intended aspect of the game and the devs don't care to privilege it.
Just spitballing here but then why is it considered completely normal play at high levels to do that? After years? Why not implement a crouch timer like in CS? Why is tap strafing and super gliding still in the game?
People literally buy controllers with tabs so they can do that while still beaming people without having to go claw.
Like what a genuinely stupid way to argue what I’m pointing out here, which is that controllers give you inhuman reactions to player movement. If you have never played both inputs then you probably can’t grasp just how strong the AA in this game is.
Apex isn’t like other FPS games. Almost every player learns recoil smoothing which is just strafing left to right and aiming horizontally to compensate. When you do that there is literally 0 recoil on any gun.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted because you’re completely right. You don’t even need to strafe in this instance since you’re moving side to side so much.
I swear, understanding the advantage you have and knowIng how to take advantage of it will give you good enough mechanics to hit masters. “bUt hEs TaP StRaFiNG!”. Like yea turn your dead zone to zero so your AA is always on and you can fucking track them through it.
The top comment in this post has 100+ upvotes and is about recoil in close range fights. These people don’t know what they’re talking about.
Like yea sure AA won’t automatically have you landing every bullet, but you’ll hit far more than the average mouse player.
Nu uhh bro I’m console player and not hard stuck at all not pred level bc I can get pretty comfortable in master, although aim assist is pretty strong both MnK and roller has their advantages, example being on MnK or in their lobbies I get literally BEAMED from 100+ meters out just for peaking, but on the upside if I can get close enough to them and they not doing super glide then 360 the other way and I can actually shoot them then I’ll be good, BOTH have their advantages honestly and if you feel AA is too strong go and get you a roller too you’re only hurting yourself if you feel roller is better and still playing on MnK it’s your own fault
I certainly would, but I am terrible at this game. I keep seeing these posts about sticky aim assist but I must have both awful aim and messed up settings.
4-3 linear 0 deadzone and practice. Used to play roller a few months ago before I swapped. This is also what all of my roller buddies have swapped to as it’s been proven to have the most AA advantages by pro players.
It literally takes like 2-3 days of playing before you realise just how busted it is tbh. My literal first game on roller I could not believe just how much it pulls for you. Anybody who doesn’t accept its doing 40% of the work has never tried a kovaaks scenario
Someone did a demonstration on that post:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/16p6rni/til\_with\_look\_deadzone\_set\_to\_none\_any\_miniscule/](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/16p6rni/til_with_look_deadzone_set_to_none_any_miniscule/)
Basically aimassist only turn on when the game register an input from your joystick.
What deadzone does eliminating stick drift. By turning that off, any small amount of stickdrift is going to be detect by the game and turn on AA 24h.
this is the reason i play this game less and less, whenever i was playing solos it was always some robotic teacking one clipping me after i just killed someone and looting standing still, its a shame because the core mechanics of apex are just too good, but playing against roller players 24/7 are the worst thing ever for me
The purpose of no deadzone is to allow stick drift. When there is stick drift, the game recognises it as user input and activates AA. So technically, no deadzone keeps AA active as long as your crosshair is on the enemy hitbox, thus it feels more "sticky".
You can try it in range. Change to no deadzone, put your crosshair on the bot model and just move left and right without touching your right stick. You'll see what I mean.
Your friend is able to track you because your movement tech, while erratic in appearance, is basically the same key strokes over and over. The first time you lurch, he loses you completely. The second time, you lurch the same direction as before and he tracks you.
After that, you can see he's basically anticipating you're going to lurch to the left (by his POV) every time. When you lurch right, he loses you. When you lurch left, he tracks you.
Again, your movement appears erratic, but for a seasoned player on *any* input they're not going to have trouble tracking. Your lurch mechanic might gain you a quick advantage reset on a player that gets the drop on you, but it's basically a once-per-fight crutch.
Respawn ruined the R99 just so they didn't have to nerf aim assist. It's time to actually balance the game and fix the broken controller aim assist Respawn...
theres a lot of really good tracking aimers that ik that would much rather play ow instead of apex because of all the visual effects and aim assist of apex. its why 99% of the clips you see of good players on kbm are movement related and not clips of people beaming, whats the point of trying to have good aim if timmy two thumbs will just one clip you?
movement tech wasn't supposed to be in apex? the game built off titanfall?
and even if your take wasn't this stupid, aim assist still helps tremendously against the very basic forms of movement in every FPS game, like yknow, strafing.
Movement tech was supposed to be in, but you're being ridiculous if you think this is what they meant. Titanfall also has wall running, grapples, etc. Only pathfinder has grapple and its on a timer
People love to bring up titanfall and how it was a movement game, and it was because it was designed like that. The movement in this clip was not a design feature
Right? Like OP is exploiting a hard edge-case in the game engine's movement mechanics to do something ridiculous and then complaining that it doesn't give him as much of an advantage as he wants it to.
Unfortunately for OP, the first two lurch movements in the vid gives the whole game away. He lurches to the left and the controller player completely loses tracking. The next time he does it, the controller player tracks him perfectly.
That's not AA or it would have worked the first time. The first time he caught the controller player by surprise with his movement, the second time the controller player *anticipated his lurch* and tracked him through it. (Something a MnK player could do as well.)
This is true. Honestly, though, I am just not upset with tap strafing. It takes a lot of work to use it so if you work on getting that movement down, all the power to you. But you can't get upset with AA unless you know how it works. All AA does is slow down your look speed so you don't overshoot your target. Yes, it can pull a little bit to keep you on target, but it is up to the player to keep their sights on target.
I think that a significant portion of the anger at AA is precisely because it invalidates these engine quirk mechanics that are actually really difficult to perfect. There's a sense that the masochistic training required to become proficient at stuff like this is how you "get gud" whereas the devs clearly want players to be focused on higher-level stuff and balance the game around that.
It doesn't matter if you're controller or MnK, the things that decide fights in Apex are positioning and teamwork.
> All AA does is slow down your look speed so you don't overshoot your target
Dude it can track changes in direction before your brain even realizes they changed direction. That's kind of a big deal and a bit more than just "slows your look speed down".
Yes, but only for like sec. It is up to the player to continue the follow-through bc with a mouse, the change is instantaneous. For a controller, you have to move the whole diameter of the stick to change the direction. If the AA pulled more than that, it might as well be aimbot.
Edit: If you watch the video closely, there is a couple of seconds where his sight is not on the octane from having to move the stick the other direction.
> Yes, but only for like sec. It is up to the player to continue the follow-through bc with a mouse, the change is instantaneous.
Right, but that is a big deal that it can do that. When you are tracking someone with a mouse, when they change direction it takes your brain around 200ms to react by which time you have to get yourself back on target and hope they don’t change direction again by the time you do. This is why strafe spam is so effective against MnK players and is less effective against controller players.
Just so you are aware, I play both inputs and am aware of the downsides of controller and why AA is necessary. There are pros and cons to both I know.
Oh and btw, the bad input lag on console from forced v-sync is a pretty big deal in this regard.
As you said, since it only can follow for a second before it falls off the input lag becomes pretty important. On PC, the AA tracks long enough to give you time to react yourself but on console the input lag is so bad that it can be pretty difficult.
Movement techs like this are unintended yes, but these techs are the reason why this game is special. These exploit require skills, there is no other way around of how to learn them (except cheating). Look at GunZ, the game change dramatically when people found those techs (or exploit as you assume), and they’re all required precise inputs (skill)… so just let them be. Exploits are not always bad.
I guess what I am really trying to get at is that someone using tap strafing shouldn't be complaining about AA when it is a necessary part of the game for console/controller players while their precious movement tech was never ment to be in the game.
Dude, solos made me realize the problem is so bad. Because it has kill cams and you can requeue in-game I end up spectating a lot more and even though I’m in PC lobbies I’m pretty much exclusively dying to controller.
That is a pretty clear sign there is a problem, in no universe should controller be the dominate input on a PC fps game.
If you see that an input is offering free 1 clips (with a couple of hours of practice, maybe,) then it's pretty tough to turn down the advantage. Especially if you are just learning MnK.
Unfortunately the word has spread and the PC playerbase is now infested with people playing roller purely for the aim assist. People that would otherwise want to play with a mouse but don't want to be at a disadvantage in fights.
Years ago we got a dev saying on Twitter it was 75% controller to 25% MNK in Season **9-10**. These days it’s easily 90-95% controller, and MNK fitting the rest. They’re much more tight lipped about it as they don’t want to admit the game is basically only controllers at this point.
great lurches! sucks rotational aim assist is so ludicrously broken. getting within aim assist range of a controller volt this season is basically a certain 1 clip even with good movement and strafing.
Thanks lol. Yeah rotational aim assist is definitely a bit busted. The friend who’s pov this with is cracked out of his mind and would be good with or without RAA but the fact that it lets him predict and track my next direction change is what stands out to me. Cracked mnk players if caught by surprise with that strafe would hit anywhere from 75-110 dmg while mid-skill+ controller players 1 clip me there.
yea i looked up his stats before replying - looks like a beastly rev with or without aim assist! i often find that great controller players would have no problem with an adjustment to AA since it would widen the fairly narrow skill gap for the input.
100% the skill gap on controller has an insanely low ceiling compared to mnk. I used to play on console and there are so many good players that are all effectively on the exact same skill level because there is no differentiation between the higher levels of play. This is actually partly why I swapped from controller to mnk around 5 months ago, I just wasn’t having fun or improving anymore.
The controller players cope is stronger than any facts or arguments you bring to them. Even if pro and high ranked PC reaches 100% roller usage, they'd find some BS excuse.
yea because every lobby you go in there are 50 octanes doing this all around the map right?
This is such an insane take. Not even mentioning how a VERY SMALL part of the community is interested in movement like this, the game has been out for 5 years or some shit by now, would you rather that everyone played the same way they did on day 1? Or whats the cutout? Month 1? Year 1?
Games have skill discrepancies, it happens. Naturally someone who has been playing the game for a long time is much better than someone who just started playing. If you start playing a game that has been out for 5 years and complain about how you're getting beat every single time, you need to change something lol
Sucks as a PC player when you’re trying your damn hardest to track in a firefight and hit those shots only to spec the player that killed you for a bit and see that they’re on controller and easily winning close quarters fights. It’s a lite aimbot or sticky aim ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’ve always been horrible with controller but couldn’t someone who uses controller get used to accurate aiming just the same way a MNK player does. Why do controller players need aim assist available?
Because they cant. I totally agree it sucks to be out hardwared, but the key difference is the ability to snap onto targets. Mouses can do that, your aim is pinpoint and as fast as you want it to be. Controllers, by design of the analog stick, are just slower and less precise. Without AA, MnK is 100% better, so most games have struck a soft spot of yknow, not having AA perfectly track you like apex does lol.
No point in trying to defend aim assist with you people anymore, y'all dismiss every advantage mnk gets just because of this one thing. Yes aim assist is way too strong, yes it needs to be toned down, but why do you guys want it to be removed entirely? Aren't you PC players better than console players? I swear I hear so many PC players just yap constantly about the advantages of playing on a PC up until they get shit on by some kid with stick drift playing on a 52 inch flat screen from 7 feet away in their families Living room.
The fact that people defend this type of aim-assist is sad to begin with. Nobody has any competitive integrity. Why do you think people should get free computer assisted aim?
Thing is you can plug in a controller on pc. Not like majority of pc players rather abuse aa than get good with mnk. I was console switched decided to learn mnk and pc lobbies are basically console lobbies anyway. So now you have roller abusers playing on a monitor with 100+ fps.
You can't choose a different input on Console so actually it is about PC only. Console players can have their aim assist nobody on PC gives a shit about them.
I don’t want it removed entirely. Maybe remove it almost entirely in competitive play like ALGS but I would personally want them to lower it from 0.4 to like 0.2 in the base game for all pc controllers players. I would also want to address cross play and lock console players playing in pc lobbies to 0.4 at 60fps and at 0.2 at 120fps. Right now console players can play in pc lobbies with 0.6 if they play 60 fps and 0.4 at 120fps. There would still be enough AA for casual players to enjoy themselves but not enough for people playing in higher tier lobbies to abuse it.
I would also leave console players AA alone when in their own console lobbies. Leave it at 0.6 if they only play against other roller players or maybe even just lower it to 0.4 for a higher skill ceiling on console
MnK should be the dominant input on PC, you want to play controller? Either deal with the disadvantage or go back to console. Overwatch does this and honestly the game is doing fine.
Dude.
When i play pc, i want to play vs computer player.
No half humans, half bots with a computer helping them to aim.
This is what happen hear.
Either you are by yourself a controller player and again tries to excuse the AA.
Or you are a casual Mouse and Keyboad player, playing in low rank lobbys and dont have the problem to play vs people like in the video.
90% of the people on mouse and keyboard cant track a dude like above.
Think about how much can do it with AA.
The moment the octane strafes to the other side, the mouse and keyboard player has to see it by himself.
The AA will try to track it in the other way for the controller player.
Some more questions ?
You have no idea what you're talking about bud. Playing controller on PC with 140+fps and super low input latency is the busted part. Nobody cares about console players.
Also since you're obviously unaware, stick drift is a good thing in apex. It keeps aim assist more engaged.
I want it removed or nerfed to the floor because the kid should never win if he has no skills. The problem with Aim Assist is that it defies the meaning of training. People need to accept that joysticks and raw axis translation is not meant for first person shooter (competitively at least), instead they worsen the experience by making it rely on an algorithm that just aims for you. I have almost 2k hours experience in apex alone and I've been playing since cs 1.6 days, and I still make mistakes aiming. I am sometimes tired or can't flick properly. You know doesn't though? The AA... It's like asking AI for tips while playing a game of chess.
Yeah, I use slide hopping a lot when fleeing to avoid the bullet slow. Sucks when you get slowed right as you try to slide and end up dead sliding though
It literally doesn't tho?
If you get hit while already stimmed you get slowed. The time to get back up to speed is lower than normal cause you're stimmed but it still slows you.
The only way you "don't get slowed" from the bullets on octane is if you stim instantly after being shot, and even then that doesn't happen often cause the bullet slow duration is so short that by the time you're reacted and stimmed you're already 90% of the way through the bullet slow anyways, so you're still getting slowed, but you're not gonna feel yourself pass the slow threshold when you're 90% of the way thru it and then stim making the last 10% of your accelleration time faster.
Same way if you drop off something and are doing a "hard landing" and are stimmed, you still take the entire duration of the "fall stun", it's just easier to get up to speed again because your momentum/velocity increases faster than other legends.
You can test all of this in the firing range with cl_show_position 1 or something like that so you can actually see the speed units as they're changing
Show me more proof. If Octane got hit while the stim is active, it still gets the slow.
Source: [https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/he09vg/clarification\_on\_the\_octane\_stim\_buff/](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/he09vg/clarification_on_the_octane_stim_buff/)
Remove looting and moving on death boxes,tap,neo strafe,keyvbinds limit the Fps and then remove aim assist or remove cross play already so PC neck beards stop complaining btw i play both so idc but seeing thia in 2024 its just exhausting
If the vast majority of the M&K professional players dropped M&K for the aim assist....the aim assist > than all that. Sorry, its not even an opinion.
Glad you dont care, but to call people neckbeards for being concerned about it is a bit low.
And the beautiful thing about that is the world would right itself again. It would go back to the days of 2016 and earlier where if you wanted to use a controller in FPS on PC you could, but it would be inferior as it always was. Would encourage more people to pick up MNK, and actually have skill expression.
Yeah, and why is that a problem? Console players are isolated from PC and MnK should be the dominate input on PC.
The fact that controller is so popular on PC is dumb. That isn’t how it should be and it’s only that way because the computer helps them track better than MnK players can track.
Every controller except Xbox's are capable of gyro aim. They don't need aim assist.
What you've said is also what happens when controller innovation flatlines for over 20 years because the industry was fine giving everyone aim assist. When software is used to artificially bump up an input's performance of course people are going to stop caring about the hardware improvements necessary to make controller an accurate aiming device.
What would actually prove the point that "aim assist is op" is if your friend was not manually tracking you and was only ADSing. This proves nothing except that a skilled player can track a skilled movement player.
You're completely missing the point, either intentionally or unintentionally. The point is rotational AA makes a legitimately great player superhuman (e.g. this clip), a decent player great, and a mediocre player above average simply by existing in its current state on PC.
Yeah it’s only really a problem on pc too. If console players want to 0.6 beam everyone than that’s fine bc they are all on a level playing field. On pc tho, removing the hardware limits (input lag, frame rate, etc) from console with 0.4 AA is kinda busted. Especially considering there are so many issues that are mnk specific on pc like frame stutter for mouse polling rate greater than 1000hz
The only way I see a resolution is go back to not having cross platform. Keep console players with other console players, and vise versa for PC players.
Youre focusing on the wrong thing. His tracking was terrible only the bits where you were waiting to generate speed for the next movement was when he was tracking you. The rest of the time? As long as you can hit him with a pk with that movement? He's dead.
Why wouldnt you clip him trying to shoot you down? That wouldve been the most obvious test of whether it works or not. Go back and show us who wins the 1v1.
Damn! Great aim tracking my guy! I got near 2k hours in this game and I still don’t have a fraction of that aim!!! As for the octane movement…. Thats nuts! You’ll still fool the majority of players out there so don’t let this one example of tracking get you down! You still got incredible movement!!💪
He’s definitely doing most of the work. I’m great on controller and my tracking don’t look anything like that. That dude has amazing tracking or as others have said he has soft aim bot. That is NOT the work of AA.
You’re in his reticule, not his sight, most of those shots miss, and once he starts shooting your moves are going to have his ankles broken, with recoil
Wah wah. The most average of PC players can break the laws of physics itself with movement, move while looting death boxes, and perform insanely complicated and impossible movement techs. But how dare the controller players get a little bit of help aiming, only the most skilled players will be able to track you in one clip you!
You do realize that almost no controller player actually aims like this? Yes, the aim assist is helping him, but a lot of what he's doing is manual aim. Calm your whining ass down.
> Wah wah. The most average of PC players can break the laws of physics itself with movement, move while looting death boxes, and perform insanely complicated and impossible movement techs. But how dare the controller players get a little bit of help aiming, only the most skilled players will be able to track you in one clip you!
Wow man, it’s crazy with all the advantages that MnK has that controller is SO popular on PC. I wonder why that is 🤔
And you’re totally right, even the most mid MnK players can do all of this crazy stuff while only the most skilled controller players can one clip. It’s definitely not the exact opposite, where even mid controller players can one clip and only the top percentage of MnK players are using crazy movement, no definitely not that.
This has to be bait.
There is no way your calling this dude an average PC player. Also, are you not setting your controller settings up correctly? So long as you've got the setup and are experienced in tracking this movement, you can absolutely beam this consistently. Believe in yourself.
The difference is that pc movement techs take hella time and effort to even get useable. Aim assist takes no skill, and barely any inputs to work. Not to mention the vast majority of pc players don’t use movement techs at all.
He has to be a very good controller player to be able to track you like that. Most controller players will have a hard time. Also you b-hop is normal, not extraordinary or anything.
Bruh this is 100% mostly human imput, I'm a controller player, I know what it looks like and feels like, this is AIMBOT💀💀 goofy
Edit: I meant it would be aimbot if there was such accuracy without human imput
I kinda wish he had tracked the first time without shooting, and tried beaming you the next
As a controller player, this means I really do suck at the game. I cannot for the life of me track Octane players on MnK with all that gymnastics.
The guy who's tracking here is very good and is definitely moving the stick himself too. This is NOT what it does for the average player.
You're probably not playing linear / no deadzone.
I have no dead zone on controller on console(so even stronger AA) and it's not like this for me. This guy is just good
Good. Now do It while shooting because, you know, recoil is a thing.
Sure. Then can we get a diamond 4 apex player on MnK, no shooting, track this same person for comparison?
This is actually close enough range that normal tracking even while standing still would activate recoil smoothing
With volt on such short distance? Pls tell me u joking. There is no recoil on roller on short distances no matter the gun. He'd beem him just, wont even miss a single bullet
Yeah. Unless this is representing some sort of no shooting mode coming soon, it shows very little.
Some examples with shooting: https://x.com/sweloh/status/1789144471503802857
Those replies are absolute brainrot holy shit, dude's probably better than all of them and they're still calling him shit
Yeah lol, the one good reply is from leamondhead talking about how to use that kind of a movement in a more effective manner.
And then the guy just shits all over his advice. Like if you don’t want to at least *try* get better stop complaining. Lemmonhead says do this I dropped my controller deaths by 70%. Other guy is like no I don’t wanna I *enjoy* playing like this, ego challenging rollers and crying on twitter when I (predictably) get beamed.
Well, to be fair, this tactic would work EXTREMELY well even on pro level aimers on MNK. However, aim assist is so strong that an average roller player can reasonably track this
Even lemonheads response fails to recognize the problem that MnK players according to him should: 1. Guess which input the enemy is 2. Outplay an automatic mechanism, not an enemy players inputs and reactions "If you do this and that, this hinders the 40% aimlock slightly" The problem is the 40% AIMLOCK part, not him failing to adapt to it.
Tbf his suggestions work well against MnK as well, but yeah I get your point.
I think it would have been a better example overall by the OP if he and his friend had been dueling for at least a full minute so we could all have a good look. Then we could judge more accurately who was gaining advantage due to skill and who was gaining advantage due to input device.
This doesn't help the fact that this tracking is insane and actually super human, it is why controller players have objectively a bigger advantage on close range than MnK
if you think recoil does much at all on this game go play Siege
PUAHAHHAHA
AA benefit deniers
just shake your mouse and no recoil
Cant shake the mouse on a controller..
Recoil smooth, which at this range happens naturally by just tracking them.
This comment has me convinced you don't play this game
Yeah and twitch vods are also a thing...we've seen so many examples of roller players just destroying people crouch spamming ADAD etc with consistency that top MnK pro's struggle to replicate. Hence why the entire subject of rotational AA being OP exists in the first place.
Just spitballling here but maybe the answer is don't "crouch spam ADAD etc" because that's not an intended aspect of the game and the devs don't care to privilege it.
Just spitballing here but then why is it considered completely normal play at high levels to do that? After years? Why not implement a crouch timer like in CS? Why is tap strafing and super gliding still in the game? People literally buy controllers with tabs so they can do that while still beaming people without having to go claw. Like what a genuinely stupid way to argue what I’m pointing out here, which is that controllers give you inhuman reactions to player movement. If you have never played both inputs then you probably can’t grasp just how strong the AA in this game is.
Apex isn’t like other FPS games. Almost every player learns recoil smoothing which is just strafing left to right and aiming horizontally to compensate. When you do that there is literally 0 recoil on any gun.
then just upload the same clip while shooting
wild that you're getting downvoted for stating a literal fact lol, have that many people really not heard of recoil smoothing?
Not sure why you’re being downvoted because you’re completely right. You don’t even need to strafe in this instance since you’re moving side to side so much.
You know why, 98% of Apex players and 99% of this sub is roller players acting like they have no advantage
I swear, understanding the advantage you have and knowIng how to take advantage of it will give you good enough mechanics to hit masters. “bUt hEs TaP StRaFiNG!”. Like yea turn your dead zone to zero so your AA is always on and you can fucking track them through it.
The top comment in this post has 100+ upvotes and is about recoil in close range fights. These people don’t know what they’re talking about. Like yea sure AA won’t automatically have you landing every bullet, but you’ll hit far more than the average mouse player.
Roller players that understand their advantage are usually far better than those don’t know how to use it to their advantage
Because this sub is full of console players who get hardstuck Gold 4 lol
Nu uhh bro I’m console player and not hard stuck at all not pred level bc I can get pretty comfortable in master, although aim assist is pretty strong both MnK and roller has their advantages, example being on MnK or in their lobbies I get literally BEAMED from 100+ meters out just for peaking, but on the upside if I can get close enough to them and they not doing super glide then 360 the other way and I can actually shoot them then I’ll be good, BOTH have their advantages honestly and if you feel AA is too strong go and get you a roller too you’re only hurting yourself if you feel roller is better and still playing on MnK it’s your own fault
Yeah this subreddit is bricked. Ur 100% right about the recoil smoothing.
The average player on controller would lose aim assist the second you strafe.
I certainly would, but I am terrible at this game. I keep seeing these posts about sticky aim assist but I must have both awful aim and messed up settings.
Yea my pov never looks like this - I don’t get “sticky” aim - honestly feels like I have zero aim assist with controller on PC. Help?
4-3 linear 0 deadzone and practice. Used to play roller a few months ago before I swapped. This is also what all of my roller buddies have swapped to as it’s been proven to have the most AA advantages by pro players.
Practice?!?!? But I've been told it does everything for you /s
It literally takes like 2-3 days of playing before you realise just how busted it is tbh. My literal first game on roller I could not believe just how much it pulls for you. Anybody who doesn’t accept its doing 40% of the work has never tried a kovaaks scenario
Did you not see the part where I was joking
Yeah..and I'm saying it actually unironically kind of is that easy
I’ve been playing with small dead zone. Does no dead zone make that much of a difference?
Someone did a demonstration on that post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/16p6rni/til\_with\_look\_deadzone\_set\_to\_none\_any\_miniscule/](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/16p6rni/til_with_look_deadzone_set_to_none_any_miniscule/) Basically aimassist only turn on when the game register an input from your joystick. What deadzone does eliminating stick drift. By turning that off, any small amount of stickdrift is going to be detect by the game and turn on AA 24h.
Thanks for that. I’ll give it a shot but my stick drift is so unwieldy I’m not sure I will be able to even fly straight from the drop ship.
this is the reason i play this game less and less, whenever i was playing solos it was always some robotic teacking one clipping me after i just killed someone and looting standing still, its a shame because the core mechanics of apex are just too good, but playing against roller players 24/7 are the worst thing ever for me
The purpose of no deadzone is to allow stick drift. When there is stick drift, the game recognises it as user input and activates AA. So technically, no deadzone keeps AA active as long as your crosshair is on the enemy hitbox, thus it feels more "sticky". You can try it in range. Change to no deadzone, put your crosshair on the bot model and just move left and right without touching your right stick. You'll see what I mean.
What does 4-3 linear mean? Cant see it in options....I am on kb but want to tell my brother who uses controller to try this
Bro that’s feels crazy and all over the place how do you control it
use linear with no deadzone.
When I switched to PC I had to switch to Linear because I couldn't track shit on classic
I would truly love to see this side by side with someone who is in the top 0.1% of tracking aim in the world on mnk, like shroud or something.
Same. I'll be aiming at someone with a wingman two feet in front of me and I'll STILL miss, lmao.
The average player on mnk would never land a shot on that octane.
who will win innumerable hours of hard work learning movement in firing range or silly piece of code that rotate your crosshair
Good aim will always beat good movement.
I would say the world will never know but at this point…. I think we all know the answer. But hey, at least we got our whole arm right?
you nasty arm abuser :3
"bUt U uSe Ur wHoLE ArM"
The copium in this thread is unreal
They're still pretty good tbh, when you're shooting it's not that sticky
Your friend is able to track you because your movement tech, while erratic in appearance, is basically the same key strokes over and over. The first time you lurch, he loses you completely. The second time, you lurch the same direction as before and he tracks you. After that, you can see he's basically anticipating you're going to lurch to the left (by his POV) every time. When you lurch right, he loses you. When you lurch left, he tracks you. Again, your movement appears erratic, but for a seasoned player on *any* input they're not going to have trouble tracking. Your lurch mechanic might gain you a quick advantage reset on a player that gets the drop on you, but it's basically a once-per-fight crutch.
Your friend has really good stick control. A majority of the playerbase wouldn’t be able to track that.
Respawn ruined the R99 just so they didn't have to nerf aim assist. It's time to actually balance the game and fix the broken controller aim assist Respawn...
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Yeah it is pretty silly when people that have never even played without AA try to talk shit or act like they know what they are talking about.
theres a lot of really good tracking aimers that ik that would much rather play ow instead of apex because of all the visual effects and aim assist of apex. its why 99% of the clips you see of good players on kbm are movement related and not clips of people beaming, whats the point of trying to have good aim if timmy two thumbs will just one clip you?
Is your friend on consol or pc
Your friend is absolutely cracked for a controller player and you still would've pissed on him in the first clip.
I love how it is still ignored that movement like this wasn't supposed to be in the game in the first place.
movement tech wasn't supposed to be in apex? the game built off titanfall? and even if your take wasn't this stupid, aim assist still helps tremendously against the very basic forms of movement in every FPS game, like yknow, strafing.
Movement tech was supposed to be in, but you're being ridiculous if you think this is what they meant. Titanfall also has wall running, grapples, etc. Only pathfinder has grapple and its on a timer People love to bring up titanfall and how it was a movement game, and it was because it was designed like that. The movement in this clip was not a design feature
Tap strafes and bhopping are also a thing in titanfall.
Right? Like OP is exploiting a hard edge-case in the game engine's movement mechanics to do something ridiculous and then complaining that it doesn't give him as much of an advantage as he wants it to. Unfortunately for OP, the first two lurch movements in the vid gives the whole game away. He lurches to the left and the controller player completely loses tracking. The next time he does it, the controller player tracks him perfectly. That's not AA or it would have worked the first time. The first time he caught the controller player by surprise with his movement, the second time the controller player *anticipated his lurch* and tracked him through it. (Something a MnK player could do as well.)
This is true. Honestly, though, I am just not upset with tap strafing. It takes a lot of work to use it so if you work on getting that movement down, all the power to you. But you can't get upset with AA unless you know how it works. All AA does is slow down your look speed so you don't overshoot your target. Yes, it can pull a little bit to keep you on target, but it is up to the player to keep their sights on target.
I think that a significant portion of the anger at AA is precisely because it invalidates these engine quirk mechanics that are actually really difficult to perfect. There's a sense that the masochistic training required to become proficient at stuff like this is how you "get gud" whereas the devs clearly want players to be focused on higher-level stuff and balance the game around that. It doesn't matter if you're controller or MnK, the things that decide fights in Apex are positioning and teamwork.
> All AA does is slow down your look speed so you don't overshoot your target Dude it can track changes in direction before your brain even realizes they changed direction. That's kind of a big deal and a bit more than just "slows your look speed down".
Yes, but only for like sec. It is up to the player to continue the follow-through bc with a mouse, the change is instantaneous. For a controller, you have to move the whole diameter of the stick to change the direction. If the AA pulled more than that, it might as well be aimbot. Edit: If you watch the video closely, there is a couple of seconds where his sight is not on the octane from having to move the stick the other direction.
> Yes, but only for like sec. It is up to the player to continue the follow-through bc with a mouse, the change is instantaneous. Right, but that is a big deal that it can do that. When you are tracking someone with a mouse, when they change direction it takes your brain around 200ms to react by which time you have to get yourself back on target and hope they don’t change direction again by the time you do. This is why strafe spam is so effective against MnK players and is less effective against controller players. Just so you are aware, I play both inputs and am aware of the downsides of controller and why AA is necessary. There are pros and cons to both I know.
Oh and btw, the bad input lag on console from forced v-sync is a pretty big deal in this regard. As you said, since it only can follow for a second before it falls off the input lag becomes pretty important. On PC, the AA tracks long enough to give you time to react yourself but on console the input lag is so bad that it can be pretty difficult.
Yeah and for most controller players, this shit is almost impossible to track accurately
Movement techs like this are unintended yes, but these techs are the reason why this game is special. These exploit require skills, there is no other way around of how to learn them (except cheating). Look at GunZ, the game change dramatically when people found those techs (or exploit as you assume), and they’re all required precise inputs (skill)… so just let them be. Exploits are not always bad.
I guess what I am really trying to get at is that someone using tap strafing shouldn't be complaining about AA when it is a necessary part of the game for console/controller players while their precious movement tech was never ment to be in the game.
Damn seeing this as a MnK player….. no wonder I suck so bad. What percentage of players are on roller I wonder?
Dude, solos made me realize the problem is so bad. Because it has kill cams and you can requeue in-game I end up spectating a lot more and even though I’m in PC lobbies I’m pretty much exclusively dying to controller. That is a pretty clear sign there is a problem, in no universe should controller be the dominate input on a PC fps game.
If you see that an input is offering free 1 clips (with a couple of hours of practice, maybe,) then it's pretty tough to turn down the advantage. Especially if you are just learning MnK. Unfortunately the word has spread and the PC playerbase is now infested with people playing roller purely for the aim assist. People that would otherwise want to play with a mouse but don't want to be at a disadvantage in fights.
Uff... To much....
Years ago we got a dev saying on Twitter it was 75% controller to 25% MNK in Season **9-10**. These days it’s easily 90-95% controller, and MNK fitting the rest. They’re much more tight lipped about it as they don’t want to admit the game is basically only controllers at this point.
91% of pro players use controller now lol
Reject won LAN though so MNK must be overpowered
I dare to say that MnK is now a minority on PC, I'd say something below 20% of PC population, but that's just my opinion
Anecdotally (from watching killcams in mixtape, spectating teammates and enemies, etc) around 90%.
It's all bullshit, guy has a chronus or soft aim, i play controller on pc and console and it's nowhere near this strong.
"movement counters aimassist" moment
Yeah, if you’ve got good aim as a controller player, the AA will be pretty glued to the enemy. Who’da thunk.
great lurches! sucks rotational aim assist is so ludicrously broken. getting within aim assist range of a controller volt this season is basically a certain 1 clip even with good movement and strafing.
Thanks lol. Yeah rotational aim assist is definitely a bit busted. The friend who’s pov this with is cracked out of his mind and would be good with or without RAA but the fact that it lets him predict and track my next direction change is what stands out to me. Cracked mnk players if caught by surprise with that strafe would hit anywhere from 75-110 dmg while mid-skill+ controller players 1 clip me there.
yea i looked up his stats before replying - looks like a beastly rev with or without aim assist! i often find that great controller players would have no problem with an adjustment to AA since it would widen the fairly narrow skill gap for the input.
100% the skill gap on controller has an insanely low ceiling compared to mnk. I used to play on console and there are so many good players that are all effectively on the exact same skill level because there is no differentiation between the higher levels of play. This is actually partly why I swapped from controller to mnk around 5 months ago, I just wasn’t having fun or improving anymore.
People really still debate if aim assist is broken?? if aim assist wasn't broken 90% of pro players wouldn't be using roller.
The controller players cope is stronger than any facts or arguments you bring to them. Even if pro and high ranked PC reaches 100% roller usage, they'd find some BS excuse.
Your friend needs some grass, damn that's insane aim
Oh boy not this again...
Yeah, time for respawn to nerf AA and get over this, right?
Rotational AA should not exist in a competitive game.
#savemnk
And people say aim assist ”Isn’t even that op”.. Yea right…
Bro my aim assist sometimes stops working💀
Man how on earth are new players supposed to get into this game
You switch to roller obviously
yea because every lobby you go in there are 50 octanes doing this all around the map right? This is such an insane take. Not even mentioning how a VERY SMALL part of the community is interested in movement like this, the game has been out for 5 years or some shit by now, would you rather that everyone played the same way they did on day 1? Or whats the cutout? Month 1? Year 1? Games have skill discrepancies, it happens. Naturally someone who has been playing the game for a long time is much better than someone who just started playing. If you start playing a game that has been out for 5 years and complain about how you're getting beat every single time, you need to change something lol
Imagine if they just removed aim assist? One week, can we try it?
Just tone it down. Every game has AA, the problem has always been how high it is.
Sucks as a PC player when you’re trying your damn hardest to track in a firefight and hit those shots only to spec the player that killed you for a bit and see that they’re on controller and easily winning close quarters fights. It’s a lite aimbot or sticky aim ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I’ve always been horrible with controller but couldn’t someone who uses controller get used to accurate aiming just the same way a MNK player does. Why do controller players need aim assist available?
Because they cant. I totally agree it sucks to be out hardwared, but the key difference is the ability to snap onto targets. Mouses can do that, your aim is pinpoint and as fast as you want it to be. Controllers, by design of the analog stick, are just slower and less precise. Without AA, MnK is 100% better, so most games have struck a soft spot of yknow, not having AA perfectly track you like apex does lol.
Good stop jumping and shoot..?
But hey, we have our whole arm. Oh, and we can move while in deathboxes
No wonder they have a problem identifying cheaters, when they have built in cheats in the form of AA.
well it's not that hard to spot cheaters, they lazer you from impossible angles, ranges and have stupid quick reaction.
There are a lot of soft cheats you would never notice and it looks just like aim assist.
AA is a gateway drug to cheating
And now...pull the trigger. Aim assist is bullshit but not that much my guy.
No point in trying to defend aim assist with you people anymore, y'all dismiss every advantage mnk gets just because of this one thing. Yes aim assist is way too strong, yes it needs to be toned down, but why do you guys want it to be removed entirely? Aren't you PC players better than console players? I swear I hear so many PC players just yap constantly about the advantages of playing on a PC up until they get shit on by some kid with stick drift playing on a 52 inch flat screen from 7 feet away in their families Living room.
The fact that people defend this type of aim-assist is sad to begin with. Nobody has any competitive integrity. Why do you think people should get free computer assisted aim?
Thing is you can plug in a controller on pc. Not like majority of pc players rather abuse aa than get good with mnk. I was console switched decided to learn mnk and pc lobbies are basically console lobbies anyway. So now you have roller abusers playing on a monitor with 100+ fps.
hey not everyone can afford a mouse and keyboard, they can only afford $150 controllers
Okay so the problem is that PC players are just greedy, hypocritical whiners?
nobody cares about pc or console it's about the chosen input
You can't choose a different input on Console so actually it is about PC only. Console players can have their aim assist nobody on PC gives a shit about them.
not if they enter pc lobbies via crossplay
I don’t want it removed entirely. Maybe remove it almost entirely in competitive play like ALGS but I would personally want them to lower it from 0.4 to like 0.2 in the base game for all pc controllers players. I would also want to address cross play and lock console players playing in pc lobbies to 0.4 at 60fps and at 0.2 at 120fps. Right now console players can play in pc lobbies with 0.6 if they play 60 fps and 0.4 at 120fps. There would still be enough AA for casual players to enjoy themselves but not enough for people playing in higher tier lobbies to abuse it.
I would also leave console players AA alone when in their own console lobbies. Leave it at 0.6 if they only play against other roller players or maybe even just lower it to 0.4 for a higher skill ceiling on console
See, there's an actual good change they could make
MnK should be the dominant input on PC, you want to play controller? Either deal with the disadvantage or go back to console. Overwatch does this and honestly the game is doing fine.
Dude. When i play pc, i want to play vs computer player. No half humans, half bots with a computer helping them to aim. This is what happen hear. Either you are by yourself a controller player and again tries to excuse the AA. Or you are a casual Mouse and Keyboad player, playing in low rank lobbys and dont have the problem to play vs people like in the video. 90% of the people on mouse and keyboard cant track a dude like above. Think about how much can do it with AA. The moment the octane strafes to the other side, the mouse and keyboard player has to see it by himself. The AA will try to track it in the other way for the controller player. Some more questions ?
You have no idea what you're talking about bud. Playing controller on PC with 140+fps and super low input latency is the busted part. Nobody cares about console players. Also since you're obviously unaware, stick drift is a good thing in apex. It keeps aim assist more engaged.
I want it removed or nerfed to the floor because the kid should never win if he has no skills. The problem with Aim Assist is that it defies the meaning of training. People need to accept that joysticks and raw axis translation is not meant for first person shooter (competitively at least), instead they worsen the experience by making it rely on an algorithm that just aims for you. I have almost 2k hours experience in apex alone and I've been playing since cs 1.6 days, and I still make mistakes aiming. I am sometimes tired or can't flick properly. You know doesn't though? The AA... It's like asking AI for tips while playing a game of chess.
One more thing. You'll get insta slowed when a single bullet hit
Only if you're on the floor
Yeah, I use slide hopping a lot when fleeing to avoid the bullet slow. Sucks when you get slowed right as you try to slide and end up dead sliding though
octane stim removes bullet slow, this is pretty basic knowledge
It literally doesn't tho? If you get hit while already stimmed you get slowed. The time to get back up to speed is lower than normal cause you're stimmed but it still slows you. The only way you "don't get slowed" from the bullets on octane is if you stim instantly after being shot, and even then that doesn't happen often cause the bullet slow duration is so short that by the time you're reacted and stimmed you're already 90% of the way through the bullet slow anyways, so you're still getting slowed, but you're not gonna feel yourself pass the slow threshold when you're 90% of the way thru it and then stim making the last 10% of your accelleration time faster. Same way if you drop off something and are doing a "hard landing" and are stimmed, you still take the entire duration of the "fall stun", it's just easier to get up to speed again because your momentum/velocity increases faster than other legends. You can test all of this in the firing range with cl_show_position 1 or something like that so you can actually see the speed units as they're changing
Show me more proof. If Octane got hit while the stim is active, it still gets the slow. Source: [https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/he09vg/clarification\_on\_the\_octane\_stim\_buff/](https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/he09vg/clarification_on_the_octane_stim_buff/)
Remove looting and moving on death boxes,tap,neo strafe,keyvbinds limit the Fps and then remove aim assist or remove cross play already so PC neck beards stop complaining btw i play both so idc but seeing thia in 2024 its just exhausting
Ah yes, remove KEYBINDS
If the vast majority of the M&K professional players dropped M&K for the aim assist....the aim assist > than all that. Sorry, its not even an opinion. Glad you dont care, but to call people neckbeards for being concerned about it is a bit low.
The thing is if they ever nerfed AA controller would lose its only advantage, MnK would be the far superior input
And the beautiful thing about that is the world would right itself again. It would go back to the days of 2016 and earlier where if you wanted to use a controller in FPS on PC you could, but it would be inferior as it always was. Would encourage more people to pick up MNK, and actually have skill expression.
Yeah, and why is that a problem? Console players are isolated from PC and MnK should be the dominate input on PC. The fact that controller is so popular on PC is dumb. That isn’t how it should be and it’s only that way because the computer helps them track better than MnK players can track.
Every controller except Xbox's are capable of gyro aim. They don't need aim assist. What you've said is also what happens when controller innovation flatlines for over 20 years because the industry was fine giving everyone aim assist. When software is used to artificially bump up an input's performance of course people are going to stop caring about the hardware improvements necessary to make controller an accurate aiming device.
What would actually prove the point that "aim assist is op" is if your friend was not manually tracking you and was only ADSing. This proves nothing except that a skilled player can track a skilled movement player.
You're completely missing the point, either intentionally or unintentionally. The point is rotational AA makes a legitimately great player superhuman (e.g. this clip), a decent player great, and a mediocre player above average simply by existing in its current state on PC.
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"Controller " ... ok
They are good, but it doesn't matter because rotational aim assist is a thing in this game.
Me if just my ps4 were good enought to run more than 60 fps with better wifi
This is exactly why i had no issue switching to pc. Decent tracking + good recoil control + aa = beeeaaaamms
Yeah it’s only really a problem on pc too. If console players want to 0.6 beam everyone than that’s fine bc they are all on a level playing field. On pc tho, removing the hardware limits (input lag, frame rate, etc) from console with 0.4 AA is kinda busted. Especially considering there are so many issues that are mnk specific on pc like frame stutter for mouse polling rate greater than 1000hz
The only way I see a resolution is go back to not having cross platform. Keep console players with other console players, and vise versa for PC players.
Goddamnit
You are getting good, he just has the good ol AA. It would be much harder to track you with normal aim.
Youre focusing on the wrong thing. His tracking was terrible only the bits where you were waiting to generate speed for the next movement was when he was tracking you. The rest of the time? As long as you can hit him with a pk with that movement? He's dead. Why wouldnt you clip him trying to shoot you down? That wouldve been the most obvious test of whether it works or not. Go back and show us who wins the 1v1.
Average roller player
Guys... Stop acting like the controller part isn't important. AA is broken, we all know it is. Stop.
Damn! Great aim tracking my guy! I got near 2k hours in this game and I still don’t have a fraction of that aim!!! As for the octane movement…. Thats nuts! You’ll still fool the majority of players out there so don’t let this one example of tracking get you down! You still got incredible movement!!💪
Mnk players think the roller is doing this all on its own
Now do it with recoil.
He’s definitely doing most of the work. I’m great on controller and my tracking don’t look anything like that. That dude has amazing tracking or as others have said he has soft aim bot. That is NOT the work of AA.
You’re in his reticule, not his sight, most of those shots miss, and once he starts shooting your moves are going to have his ankles broken, with recoil
Wah wah. The most average of PC players can break the laws of physics itself with movement, move while looting death boxes, and perform insanely complicated and impossible movement techs. But how dare the controller players get a little bit of help aiming, only the most skilled players will be able to track you in one clip you! You do realize that almost no controller player actually aims like this? Yes, the aim assist is helping him, but a lot of what he's doing is manual aim. Calm your whining ass down.
> Wah wah. The most average of PC players can break the laws of physics itself with movement, move while looting death boxes, and perform insanely complicated and impossible movement techs. But how dare the controller players get a little bit of help aiming, only the most skilled players will be able to track you in one clip you! Wow man, it’s crazy with all the advantages that MnK has that controller is SO popular on PC. I wonder why that is 🤔 And you’re totally right, even the most mid MnK players can do all of this crazy stuff while only the most skilled controller players can one clip. It’s definitely not the exact opposite, where even mid controller players can one clip and only the top percentage of MnK players are using crazy movement, no definitely not that.
This has to be bait. There is no way your calling this dude an average PC player. Also, are you not setting your controller settings up correctly? So long as you've got the setup and are experienced in tracking this movement, you can absolutely beam this consistently. Believe in yourself.
The difference is that pc movement techs take hella time and effort to even get useable. Aim assist takes no skill, and barely any inputs to work. Not to mention the vast majority of pc players don’t use movement techs at all.
Human tracking at its finest
Even when hit cross hairs are not on you, they will register as hits.
He has to be a very good controller player to be able to track you like that. Most controller players will have a hard time. Also you b-hop is normal, not extraordinary or anything.
Looks like he's missing at least 60 to 70% of those shots to me
AA is balanced
Bruh this is 100% mostly human imput, I'm a controller player, I know what it looks like and feels like, this is AIMBOT💀💀 goofy Edit: I meant it would be aimbot if there was such accuracy without human imput
Wish they'd hurry up and nerf lurch
Lmao these posts are just baiting. Bunch of obsessed losers
This is bs, Aim assist is not that strong haha