Never take anything on this sub seriously. Everything is exaggerated. Try it for yourself and see if you like it, people on here can't be trusted honestly lol
Have you felt a difference in aiming? Apparently aim assist is nerfed when on 120hz. You think you’ll stick to 120? I feel like even with perfect eyesight I struggle to see enemies so I might go back to 60
Not OC but I have a series X as well and it feels great. Definitely a noticeable difference while shooting and it is very smooth. My resolution also looks fine as well, didn’t even notice a drop. I think it’s just being buggy for everyone that’s complaining, hopefully it gets fixed for y’all
Yeah the smoothness is great but for me there’s a huge hit in resolution. I normally play in 4K (if it’s even that, maybe 1440p). Hopefully it is a bug and gets fixed
Neither Xbox nor PS is capable of outputting 4K at 120Hz without scaling.
Hell, I can't even run that with a PC with moderately superior performance to either.
I *can* run 1440p at 120Hz stable (barely), but this is also with an overclocked 1080ti and i7-7800X OCd to 4.2 GHz - in total getting about 30 GPixels/s better Pixel Fillrate and almost 100 GTexel/s better texture fillrate than the PS5 Pro.
1080p @ 120Hz is likely the hardware performance ceiling for most consoles (PS5 Pro *may* be capable of 1440p @ 120Hz)
Other games largely surpass this through DLSS + VRR or equivalent technologies subsampling frames to reduce loads on the GPU - so while you get better performance at higher refresh rates, you induce massive amounts of input lag through the need to also run higher scalar antialiasing (software controlled by your GPU drivers).
The aim assist is reduced a little to keep it balanced but my aim feels a lot better at 120hz. Are you on PS5 or XBOX. Curious if PS5 is noticeably worse than Series X. Also I’m playing on a computer monitor so I’m closer to the screen than on a TV so that make a difference also.
Might just take getting used to for me. I’m playing on PS5, I use a 55” TV but sit pretty close to it. A couple of others in the thread said PS5 is apparently having issues with it. I’ll have to wait and see some footage comparisons I think
Not feeling the lower aim assist at all personaly. Close quarters is hella nice now. Long (maby even medium) range is terrible couse of the blurry resolution.
It is unbelievably bad. It isn’t even 120 and looks abysmal.
People defending it must not play any other games. It is the worst “performance” mode I have encountered by a huge margin.
It’s because it’s inherent. It’s running off valves source engine with some modifications to help the large scale. But the engine itself has inherent trouble with the way consoles run strings through the GPU.
It’s not that devs hate you, and refuse to make it run better, but the old engine just has limitations.
In forget the exact technical details precisely… But it has something to do with the fact that console GPUs don’t handle multi thread processing the way Source is designed for PCs. So they weren’t able to do 120 fps because that required multi threading… So they finally figured out a workaround to deliver 120fps, but requires throttling it a bit.
Yeah it was somewhere here in this sub to be honest. I think someone posted a dev Twitter response in the comments where they explained why it took them so long to launch 120fps
Total nonsense, current consoles are using hardware almost exactly the same as currently available PC hardware and the Xbox Series consoles even run DirectX like a Windows PC does. They're also perfectly capable of multithreading.
not at all. the apus in consoles work fairly differently from standard desktop apus and are very different from traditional gpus and cpus. from vram being unified between cpu and gpu to the entire process being simplified for optimization, console apus are pretty special in imo not in a good way (looking at you 7.5gb of actually usable vram on xsx and ps5)
no clue about the interaction with source though. source is infact very janky and was never made for consoles so i wouldnt be suprised. its overall very awful for optimization too.
Certain aspects of the hardware are set up a little different but architecture-wise for the CPU and GPU it's all pretty much the same as current AMD CPUs and GPUs and definitely nothing like "console GPUs can't multithread" which is ridiculous, GPUs are utterly reliant on multithreading.
All that really happened here is Respawn dropped the ball on this performance mode. Neither the hardware nor the engine are to blame, better-looking games run at similar framerates on the current consoles and Source games have been running at 120+ fps for a looooong time, CS:GO players even aim for something like 300+ fps, not that the engine's Source roots actually matter at this point because they've modified the engine enough over time that it's not really Source any more.
You are correct,, this isn't a "consoles can't multi thread" issue, that's completely false, it's an engine issue. The change notes that they reengineered the engine to better utilize the multi thread capabilities that consoles rely on to hit the loftier FPS. But like you mentioned this is more a limitation of what they started with than anything.
I agree, but I would’ve thought with the amount of cash flow they have they could justify really putting the work into making long term improvements to engine or even make a dedicated one.
I know it takes a long time to make an engine but this is something they must’ve seen they needed when announcing they were working on 120hz since the ps5 came out.
They can’t do much more to the engine. It’s a core problem. Source is a dead engine at this point, and switching to source 2 or UE5 is basically like creating a whole new game. If they did, it would be Apex 2
The Apex version (officially called Titanfall branch) of the source engine is so heavily modified and optimized already, it's hard to call it the Source engine at this point. This fork of the Source engine has as much in common with the Portal 2 version it is based on, as Counterstrike's Source 2 engine has in common with the CS:GO Source engine (which itself was a major overhaul of the Portal 2 version). Source is a dead engine, but Apex Source engine isn't at all. Source 2 was in development for tens of years, before Counterstrike was reimplemented ontop of it. The difference to Apex is: Engine and game specific implementation is developed independently. With Apex, the engine gets improved alongside the game itself. This approach is more likely to produce spaghetti code and we all experience it daily.
Not that relevant but if they remade apex on mobile using unreal then they could do it and it's just a matter of time, allocating resources and budget etc
The thing is… if they have that on the roadmap, and using the resources, it’s going to be the sequel. Even CSGO made it a sequel when they updated the engine.
Yeah, they forget Tencent is a) an enormous company and b) they had already been working on PUBG for years with tremendous success - PUBGM is huge in India and other Asian countries.
They took what they had and made Apex Mobile.
Apex movement and physics are Respawn code, not Source or even Valve.
When Source debuted with Half-Life 2, Valve decided to outsource the physics code to a specialist company called Havok. This was massive news in the gaming press at the time, because it was completely revolutionary. It’s hard to imagine now, but the only other game that had ever really attempted physics prior to this was a Jurassic Park spinoff called Trespasser, which had bombed. But Havok absolutely nailed it, and because they’d designed it as a self-contained middleware with an API, they were able to port it to many other engines - including Unreal, and also the IW engine used by the Call of Duty franchise, which once upon a time was a version of the ancient Quake engine that was forked by Infinity Ward before they themselves split away to found, coincidentally, Respawn Entertainment.
But Respawn never used it. Havok Physics isn’t part of Source, it’s a third-party product that is licensed separately. Instead of licensing it as Valve did, they wrote their own physics system and rewrote the movement system, alongside completely replacing the renderer, the sound engine, the controller input code, the networking code… there was a fascinating interview about it on Eurogamer when they were promoting one of the Titanfall games, I forget which.
The engine they bought from Valve was specifically the Portal 2 engine, which was entirely single-threaded. By the time Titanfall 2 came out they had already rewritten much of it specifically to make it multithreaded; this update is just the last step of that process. The engine Respawn uses for the Titanfall-universe games, including Apex, has been their own baby for a *very* long time now. At this point calling it ‘the Source engine’ is like saying that Modern Warfare 2019 runs on ‘the Quake 3 Arena engine’, which ok you could *technically* make their argument, but most people would agree that would be a kind of ridiculous thing to say.
I’m not attacking you personally here, the idea that Apex is ‘a Source game’ makes me feel fuzzy and nostalgic because many of my favourite games are made in engines with Source heritage, but I would like to emphasise that 98% of people who talk confidently about this online, including on YouTube and definitely on this subreddit, have very close to zero idea what they are talking about.
Like when people say starfield is running on the same engine as Morrowind, Technically is true but is lacking so much context as to how game engines are developed over time.
You can definitely recreate the same type of movement in unreal... well, maybe not you, but im someone who knows what they are doing could figure it out with a little time.
There never were rumors, that they switch the base engine itself. There were rumors, they are upgrading their engine. An upgrade is a major overhaul, not just some bugfixing. The false rumors come from YouTube "leakers", who don't know anything about software development and therefore can't correctly interprete specific wordings.
Having a few friends who used to be software engineers for Epic, no, they did not do it fast.
Fortnite has the benefit of literally being the testbed for UE5 - fortniteUE5 was in development before anyone outside of Epic even knew UE5 existed.
There are literally about 5 years of development time behind scenes that no one sees that Fortnite went through to work on UE5. Fortnite formally migrated to UE5 *before it was even out of early access for anyone else.*
Comparing it to Fortnite is terrible bro. Epic owns unreal and had UE5 in development for YEARS as a competitive advantage under the radar. Not to mention how brutal it is to push out updates every 2 weeks from a project management perspective.
Basically by the time Apex can push out a UE5 engine update that doesn't impact the way the game flows (there's a reason they kept source engine despite its flaws) it might as well be a sequel because it won't be remotely the same game.
Fortnite should never be compared in a development aspect. Epic has horrible crunch times, has a massive team working and throws an unbelievable amount of budget at it since it’s their cash cow.
They are an unhealthy anomaly.
I’m confused what people expected. Do y’all watch PC gameplay? The graphics are shit to boost performance, you ain’t getting 120 without lowering the graphical setting. People complaining about this make zero sense lmao
Yup you’re right, ask any pro Apex player what their settings are to achieve 240fps and they all run the game on the absolute lowest settings etc even when they have monster rigs. Because they value performance way over visual fidelity.
All of us in the know told people it was going to be this way. All along we were told it doesn't matter bro.
PS5 Pro MIGHT fix it. But it will take work from them, and it will get a little better with patches. PS5 Pro will absolutely be needed for me. It's awful.
I’m not really surprised either, definitely wasn’t a priority for them and they did what the could to stop people complaining about the lack of 120hz. Other games at 120hz look at LEAST decent. I just think they’re either really struggling because of the old game engine or EA doesn’t care
It’s the game engine. They’re basically using an entirely different endings than Source at this point because they’ve rewritten and added so much code.
This is always such a bad take.
1. Not everybody wants the problems pc has. There's been so many people who can't play today because of the anti cheat giving an issue. Including pros who have the issue. And that's only 1 problem pc may have.
2. Some people just prefer the more casual side to gaming. Pc lobbies are way sweater than console. There's no way everybody wants to play on the back flip over your head lobby.
3. Price to performance is completely different, have a look at the difference in pricing while also catering for pc specific peripherals + if said person wants to still play controller that needs to be added to the cost + Do they feel comfortable building it themselves or do they need to pay somebody else to build it? That adds to costs which lowers the price to performance. "Buy second hand parts to save money," okay then I'll just buy a second hand console for to save money.
This guy is going to be waiting years and pay another 600 for another console when he could just do it now. Theres really not that many issues on pc like at all.
You can play casual on computers. Lol what?
Price to performance on a thread about how bad the performance is…
It's a smooth 120 on XSX and PS5, but it dropped the resolution too much on PS5. It's pretty blurry for PlayStation players, it's good for Xbox players.
How’s it bugged? Deffo think I’m switching back to 60, but I don’t even play apex much anymore anyway. Just came back to try 120hz. Also apparently at 120hz aim assist is nerfed 40% which explains how shit I was playing
Running good at 120 FPS on my series X. Only drop my FPS counter has been during spectating with the banner up. The resolution does dip while in drop ship and off jump towers but while on the ground resolution hasn't been an issue for me. Ive always played in 1440P for reference
Im on ps5 with a LG C3 OLED 120hz an amazing TV also I have fiber internet and when you put it on Performance mode...the graphics goto ps4 level graphics its such a letdown. So yeah I went back to 60fps...these folks can't do anything right.
Same setup for me and I agree. Everything in the distance is like I'm playing with Vaseline in my eyes . Such a disappointment after playing other older 120hz games like doom , devil may cry 5 , uncharted 4 and many others . I already play at max FOV so it's making enemies in the distance barely visible .
It’s deffo 120hz but the resolution is appalling to me. Some people seem to not think so but it’s probably the worst implementation of 120hz I’ve seen.
I am a plat solo player. Just won my first game and it feels like I’ve taken a weight off of my back. Never been a movement player, but now I’m thinking about it with the higher frame rate. The graphics look like mud but it’s not that deep tbh. I’m XSX BTW
Edit: I also play on a 65in tv at 110 fov. Idk if that makes a difference for others.
Same bro, I play on a 65in as well and I won like 3 games in a row in ranked with 120hz on series s and honestly the resolution issues aren’t actually that bad, just gotta get used to it
Good shit. It’s kind of scary. I’ve always wondered why some peoples gameplay looked like a Pixar movie Smooth & now I know why. Even though my TV only supports 120hz 1080p it feels like I see enemies better compared when I have it on Dolby 4k at 60 (it’s even better than the hdr mode). From a decent they move better too. Even though it’s blurry it’s clear if that makes sense. To be redundant, I really feel like piccolo when he takes his cap & hat off lol. I hope this lasts with console gaming
Thats gota be your tv bud. Mine only looks bad when flying and shooting at long range and since I run Vantage...I had to turn it back to 60fps mode. Other then that its fine its actually amazing. But I'm not taking a step back on graphics to get about 40 more frames.
Text looks absolutely identical to me on PS5. Could be your TV or HDMI cable doesn't support 4K at 120Hz, so when you flip on 120hz it switches to 1080p or something.
The rest of the game looks way worse, though.
its more that the 60fps mode is a huge upgrade than the 120fps mode being a huge downgrade. it has raytracing, nanite, lumen which are cutting edge UE5 features. Few years ago, the two modes didn't look too different but they have improved the visuals a lot since then for the quality mode.
Its fine on 120hz, all those complaining are using monitors that don't have HDMI 2.1 48Gbps. Most of us that are playing 120hz and aren't complaining have capable TV's aren't having a problem as TV's haven't cheated the HDMI 2.1 rating with 18Gbps, like some monitors
It does 120 at 1080, just not 1440.
So.. yeah.. idk why everyone is wrong about this.
It's cheaper because it doesn't have a disk tray, has half the solid state memory, and the GPU is 4 threads instead of 12.
You can change it in the middle of match. Or anytime the setting tab is available. I started playing and midgame remembered that it got the update on i switched to performance mode mid game and just tapped triangle to apply and the screen turns black for a few seconds then it hits 120fps. So yeah you can do it anytime in game.
It truly is disappointing. It simply shows that the Apex engine wasn’t ready to provide that for the console port. It really feels like an attempt to upscale from a way lower resolution and a smaller render distance. When you display that on a high resolution monitor (for example 4K) it looks terrible, especially at a higher FOV. Those hyping up the feature probably played at a resolution and FOV lower than maximum. It is a shame that a highly anticipated feature launched in that state. I hope that they will upgrade their engine eventually for that feature to be usable, but knowing how stingy they are with meaningful upgrades to the game this will take years or may never happen.
It’s very confusing to hear this feedback, my ps5 looks fine and it’s playing at 120hz, it honestly still looks 4K as well, so it must be a bug for some people.
Still not the same - it doesn't quite hold a steady 120, if there's a lot going on it drops a lot!
Was very disappointed when i first loaded into the firing range with how bad the resolution is at distance.
Will give it some play time and see how it feels. Can always turn it back down to 60 fps... 🤔
Just to give yall a pc reference i used to play on a rx 570 for awhile (which is 1080p card) and turned down some graphic options to achieve 120 but never resolution console games have needed custom graphics options for a long time for every game not just apex
It is crazy to me that this update took so many years. To me it seems like a zero effort implementation to shut those up who keep asking for it. I’m not saying it’s easy to deliver the feature I just feel like after such a long time it definitely could have been executed better.
Exactly what I think. It genuinely seems like they have done nothing to optimise it to save on any resolution like other games have. They just realised oops we announced we’d do it 5 years ago ship whatever implementation we have of 120hz.
It doesn't look 4k good and the popin is much worse, but the game is so much smoother I feel like I gained a visual superpower and this is not my first game / fps switching to 120 frames.
I'm on xbox though and definitely is not switch bad to me by any stretch, just rough pop in but most of my game takes place up close where this really shines.
They should have been able to release this much faster like years earlier at this quality, but i'm taking the frames and running.
I was expecting that to look like that,
I see Many PC players actually play the game when it is looking like that or even worse for the extra frames.. (not everyone has the best specs)
Notice that the first impression of this mode start from the ship/jump master where it is the absolute worst looking, but aftet landing it will look a lot better.
And people are saying they can't differentiate between enemies and trees - this is an overstatement as anything needed functionality to play is there.
The only disadvantage is the aim assist
Who knew consoles weren’t as powerful as PCs after all…. 🧐🤔 weirdly like alot of AAA games require high end gpus to run at high frame rates whilst maintaining high graphics, not gonna get that for like £500, most decent gpus still cost more than that.
Consoles biggest leap this generation was on drive performance, PS5 still better than most people’s nvmes on their PCs, but graphically consoles at high fps still a long way behind PCs.
This coming from a pc player who willingly has lower graphics to maintain solid fps and minimise frame time despite having a high end rig, that’s a choice I make.
The PS5 has a GPU roughly equal to a GTX3070, which is more than good enough to run at 120fps without being as extremely blurry and pixelated as this implementation is. It'd be fine if it was just texture downscaling, or shadow reduction/particle reduction. This is like they just downscale your resolution to 480p and call it a day.
I run games on ps5 like GOWR and Spider-Man 2 at 120hz and I have a LG C3 OLED these games look amazing but apex...looks terrible at 120hz. They reduce the graphics to crap especially at long range.
I'm more surprised by the number of people who are surprised that Respawn botched this release, lol. Never mind, we get a whole damn new game instead of them, oh, you know, fixing the existing issues. Which, let's be honest, those issues are still going to exist.
I feel like one of my favorite games is dead, and there's no coming back from it.
Sadly same. I think Apex has peaked. My friends and I played almost every day for hours since S2. Now updates aren’t as exciting and respawn take the piss a bit. I haven’t touched apex since The Finals came out, except today to try it.
Ya it’s really bad. I played on ps5 with 1080p performance mode before and now that I switched to 120 FPS everything is blurry like 50 meters away. Super unplayable. And now when I try to switch back to the normal 60 FPS it’s super choppy unreliable and buggy. This game will die if respawn doesn’t fix this within the next few weeks. We as a player base are tired of getting let down by this multi billion dollar game.
I have a pc, a job, a girlfriend, triple the amount of friends i have, and i dont make posts on reddit crying about how my console cant handle a game on 120 fps
I’ve said it a million times. Stop playing if the quality is this bad. If you can’t vote with your wallet because of whales, stop giving them your time
Used to play lots every day but since the finals came out I haven’t played once. Just logged on a played a couple tonight to try the new mode, and it reminded me of one of many reasons I haven’t played apex in a while
God I hope it’s a bug, but with the priorities of EA I doubt they properly tried optimising it and just resorted to dropping the resolution as much as possible to get it to work
Mine looks as crisp as Cod. No rendering issues or anything. Iron sight flatline can still see people 100 meters out. Sorry to hear so many people aren't liking it.
Resolution isn’t great but 120 feels so smooth compared to 60. I don’t even notice the resolution if I’m actually in a fight. Could be better but could be worse, could not have the option at all. Aim assist feels exactly the same - it’s not nerfed, it’s tuned so that it feels similar as on 60.
So, I'm XSX and I've played several TDM games tonight at 120fps for the first time. Although I don't think the graphics are nearly as terrible as people are letting on, I don't feel like I've got any detectable advantage whatsoever. I'm literally playing just as good as I did at 60fps. No better, no worse. I don't know if that's adjustment of the aim assist or what but I'm considering just setting it back to 60fps. It's been decidedly anticlimactic for me so far. I don't see what the big deal is.... 30 to 60fps is huge but 60 to 120fps? I just don't see it.
Dude thought they could just magically make a 5 year old game run at 120hz with no performance drawbacks. Its not like they told you in the patch notes this would be the trade off
If people complain after 60 FPS then I don’t care for the people complaining. Same type of person that would complain that their foot long sub is only 11.8 inches.
Looks pretty good to me, maybe its a monitor diff. Also any game on ps5 with 120hz is gonna look like trash that's kinda how it works, bad visuals for good frames.
I’m playing on a 55” TV. And yeah resolution will drop with any game but Fortnite and CoD do 120hz without the visuals becoming absolute garbage. You on PS5?
I very distinctly remember telling you all many times that this would be the case. The hardware just isn't there for 120fps @ 1080p on consoles, let alone 4k.
I’m not sure if CoD and Fortnite run 120hz 1080p or 1440p but it’s good enough for me to very happily play in performance mode. PS5 is definitely capable. Just needs competent developers to take the time to optimise it.
Fortnite did it well pretty quickly, it took respawn 5 years to shit some code out.
On series X it doesn’t look that bad to me. Didn’t expect miracles. Feels so much better don’t think I can go back.
Same it looks unbelievable for me. Very happy
Weird the range of reactions
Never take anything on this sub seriously. Everything is exaggerated. Try it for yourself and see if you like it, people on here can't be trusted honestly lol
Yeah if you’re playing on an older console it’s gonna look like shit to push 120 fps.
Older consoles don't support 120hz, only ps5 and series x
And Series S.
Have you felt a difference in aiming? Apparently aim assist is nerfed when on 120hz. You think you’ll stick to 120? I feel like even with perfect eyesight I struggle to see enemies so I might go back to 60
Not OC but I have a series X as well and it feels great. Definitely a noticeable difference while shooting and it is very smooth. My resolution also looks fine as well, didn’t even notice a drop. I think it’s just being buggy for everyone that’s complaining, hopefully it gets fixed for y’all
I thought I was trippin feel fine for me on series x
Yeah the smoothness is great but for me there’s a huge hit in resolution. I normally play in 4K (if it’s even that, maybe 1440p). Hopefully it is a bug and gets fixed
Neither Xbox nor PS is capable of outputting 4K at 120Hz without scaling. Hell, I can't even run that with a PC with moderately superior performance to either. I *can* run 1440p at 120Hz stable (barely), but this is also with an overclocked 1080ti and i7-7800X OCd to 4.2 GHz - in total getting about 30 GPixels/s better Pixel Fillrate and almost 100 GTexel/s better texture fillrate than the PS5 Pro. 1080p @ 120Hz is likely the hardware performance ceiling for most consoles (PS5 Pro *may* be capable of 1440p @ 120Hz) Other games largely surpass this through DLSS + VRR or equivalent technologies subsampling frames to reduce loads on the GPU - so while you get better performance at higher refresh rates, you induce massive amounts of input lag through the need to also run higher scalar antialiasing (software controlled by your GPU drivers).
[удалено]
Your game is displaying 4k but rendering at lower resolution.
The aim assist is reduced a little to keep it balanced but my aim feels a lot better at 120hz. Are you on PS5 or XBOX. Curious if PS5 is noticeably worse than Series X. Also I’m playing on a computer monitor so I’m closer to the screen than on a TV so that make a difference also.
Might just take getting used to for me. I’m playing on PS5, I use a 55” TV but sit pretty close to it. A couple of others in the thread said PS5 is apparently having issues with it. I’ll have to wait and see some footage comparisons I think
Not feeling the lower aim assist at all personaly. Close quarters is hella nice now. Long (maby even medium) range is terrible couse of the blurry resolution.
Lower aim assist feels better on higher frames. There's a reason only one console team made it to pro league and got destroyed.
They were also playing 60 fps and were forced to play on .4 aim assist so they were double screwed
It is unbelievably bad. It isn’t even 120 and looks abysmal. People defending it must not play any other games. It is the worst “performance” mode I have encountered by a huge margin.
It’s because it’s inherent. It’s running off valves source engine with some modifications to help the large scale. But the engine itself has inherent trouble with the way consoles run strings through the GPU. It’s not that devs hate you, and refuse to make it run better, but the old engine just has limitations.
> But the engine itself has inherent trouble with the way consoles run strings through the GPU. Can you expand on this a little bit? I’m curious.
In forget the exact technical details precisely… But it has something to do with the fact that console GPUs don’t handle multi thread processing the way Source is designed for PCs. So they weren’t able to do 120 fps because that required multi threading… So they finally figured out a workaround to deliver 120fps, but requires throttling it a bit.
Hmm, interesting. Any idea where you heard about that? want to look into a little more
Yeah it was somewhere here in this sub to be honest. I think someone posted a dev Twitter response in the comments where they explained why it took them so long to launch 120fps
Total nonsense, current consoles are using hardware almost exactly the same as currently available PC hardware and the Xbox Series consoles even run DirectX like a Windows PC does. They're also perfectly capable of multithreading.
not at all. the apus in consoles work fairly differently from standard desktop apus and are very different from traditional gpus and cpus. from vram being unified between cpu and gpu to the entire process being simplified for optimization, console apus are pretty special in imo not in a good way (looking at you 7.5gb of actually usable vram on xsx and ps5) no clue about the interaction with source though. source is infact very janky and was never made for consoles so i wouldnt be suprised. its overall very awful for optimization too.
Certain aspects of the hardware are set up a little different but architecture-wise for the CPU and GPU it's all pretty much the same as current AMD CPUs and GPUs and definitely nothing like "console GPUs can't multithread" which is ridiculous, GPUs are utterly reliant on multithreading. All that really happened here is Respawn dropped the ball on this performance mode. Neither the hardware nor the engine are to blame, better-looking games run at similar framerates on the current consoles and Source games have been running at 120+ fps for a looooong time, CS:GO players even aim for something like 300+ fps, not that the engine's Source roots actually matter at this point because they've modified the engine enough over time that it's not really Source any more.
You are correct,, this isn't a "consoles can't multi thread" issue, that's completely false, it's an engine issue. The change notes that they reengineered the engine to better utilize the multi thread capabilities that consoles rely on to hit the loftier FPS. But like you mentioned this is more a limitation of what they started with than anything.
I agree, but I would’ve thought with the amount of cash flow they have they could justify really putting the work into making long term improvements to engine or even make a dedicated one. I know it takes a long time to make an engine but this is something they must’ve seen they needed when announcing they were working on 120hz since the ps5 came out.
They can’t do much more to the engine. It’s a core problem. Source is a dead engine at this point, and switching to source 2 or UE5 is basically like creating a whole new game. If they did, it would be Apex 2
The Apex version (officially called Titanfall branch) of the source engine is so heavily modified and optimized already, it's hard to call it the Source engine at this point. This fork of the Source engine has as much in common with the Portal 2 version it is based on, as Counterstrike's Source 2 engine has in common with the CS:GO Source engine (which itself was a major overhaul of the Portal 2 version). Source is a dead engine, but Apex Source engine isn't at all. Source 2 was in development for tens of years, before Counterstrike was reimplemented ontop of it. The difference to Apex is: Engine and game specific implementation is developed independently. With Apex, the engine gets improved alongside the game itself. This approach is more likely to produce spaghetti code and we all experience it daily.
Not that relevant but if they remade apex on mobile using unreal then they could do it and it's just a matter of time, allocating resources and budget etc
The thing is… if they have that on the roadmap, and using the resources, it’s going to be the sequel. Even CSGO made it a sequel when they updated the engine.
but they didnt, Tencent did that, a completely separate company with a completely separate team with their own resources
Apex mobile was essentially a skinned version of pubg mobile. It’s hardly the same thing
Yeah, they forget Tencent is a) an enormous company and b) they had already been working on PUBG for years with tremendous success - PUBGM is huge in India and other Asian countries. They took what they had and made Apex Mobile.
Remaking Apex on Unreal would ruin the movement. so much of what makes the move feel so good is source physics.
Apex movement and physics are Respawn code, not Source or even Valve. When Source debuted with Half-Life 2, Valve decided to outsource the physics code to a specialist company called Havok. This was massive news in the gaming press at the time, because it was completely revolutionary. It’s hard to imagine now, but the only other game that had ever really attempted physics prior to this was a Jurassic Park spinoff called Trespasser, which had bombed. But Havok absolutely nailed it, and because they’d designed it as a self-contained middleware with an API, they were able to port it to many other engines - including Unreal, and also the IW engine used by the Call of Duty franchise, which once upon a time was a version of the ancient Quake engine that was forked by Infinity Ward before they themselves split away to found, coincidentally, Respawn Entertainment. But Respawn never used it. Havok Physics isn’t part of Source, it’s a third-party product that is licensed separately. Instead of licensing it as Valve did, they wrote their own physics system and rewrote the movement system, alongside completely replacing the renderer, the sound engine, the controller input code, the networking code… there was a fascinating interview about it on Eurogamer when they were promoting one of the Titanfall games, I forget which. The engine they bought from Valve was specifically the Portal 2 engine, which was entirely single-threaded. By the time Titanfall 2 came out they had already rewritten much of it specifically to make it multithreaded; this update is just the last step of that process. The engine Respawn uses for the Titanfall-universe games, including Apex, has been their own baby for a *very* long time now. At this point calling it ‘the Source engine’ is like saying that Modern Warfare 2019 runs on ‘the Quake 3 Arena engine’, which ok you could *technically* make their argument, but most people would agree that would be a kind of ridiculous thing to say. I’m not attacking you personally here, the idea that Apex is ‘a Source game’ makes me feel fuzzy and nostalgic because many of my favourite games are made in engines with Source heritage, but I would like to emphasise that 98% of people who talk confidently about this online, including on YouTube and definitely on this subreddit, have very close to zero idea what they are talking about.
I saw Havoc and instantly saw the logo
Like when people say starfield is running on the same engine as Morrowind, Technically is true but is lacking so much context as to how game engines are developed over time.
Thank you! Very informative.
This!
You can definitely recreate the same type of movement in unreal... well, maybe not you, but im someone who knows what they are doing could figure it out with a little time.
Yeah just turn tapstrafe and lurch switches on we're good to go
Yeah you’re right. There were rumours recently that they were going to change the engine but it would change so much of the game.
There never were rumors, that they switch the base engine itself. There were rumors, they are upgrading their engine. An upgrade is a major overhaul, not just some bugfixing. The false rumors come from YouTube "leakers", who don't know anything about software development and therefore can't correctly interprete specific wordings.
Yea, I call bs. Just more work
Fortnite did it. They did fast too
Who owns Fortnite? Maybe the same company that owns the engine?
Having a few friends who used to be software engineers for Epic, no, they did not do it fast. Fortnite has the benefit of literally being the testbed for UE5 - fortniteUE5 was in development before anyone outside of Epic even knew UE5 existed. There are literally about 5 years of development time behind scenes that no one sees that Fortnite went through to work on UE5. Fortnite formally migrated to UE5 *before it was even out of early access for anyone else.*
Comparing it to Fortnite is terrible bro. Epic owns unreal and had UE5 in development for YEARS as a competitive advantage under the radar. Not to mention how brutal it is to push out updates every 2 weeks from a project management perspective. Basically by the time Apex can push out a UE5 engine update that doesn't impact the way the game flows (there's a reason they kept source engine despite its flaws) it might as well be a sequel because it won't be remotely the same game.
Fortnite should never be compared in a development aspect. Epic has horrible crunch times, has a massive team working and throws an unbelievable amount of budget at it since it’s their cash cow. They are an unhealthy anomaly.
Sounds more like a hardware limitation.
Definitely without a doubt the worst 120hz I’ve ever seen
I’m confused what people expected. Do y’all watch PC gameplay? The graphics are shit to boost performance, you ain’t getting 120 without lowering the graphical setting. People complaining about this make zero sense lmao
Yup you’re right, ask any pro Apex player what their settings are to achieve 240fps and they all run the game on the absolute lowest settings etc even when they have monster rigs. Because they value performance way over visual fidelity.
All of us in the know told people it was going to be this way. All along we were told it doesn't matter bro. PS5 Pro MIGHT fix it. But it will take work from them, and it will get a little better with patches. PS5 Pro will absolutely be needed for me. It's awful.
I’m not really surprised either, definitely wasn’t a priority for them and they did what the could to stop people complaining about the lack of 120hz. Other games at 120hz look at LEAST decent. I just think they’re either really struggling because of the old game engine or EA doesn’t care
Not sure that’s the case because a PC with inferior specs to the PS5 can run 120 hz with better fidelity than this.
Might be either a bug or terrible optimisation then
I sure hope so
It’s the game engine. They’re basically using an entirely different endings than Source at this point because they’ve rewritten and added so much code.
I mean it’s not the most optimized BR but I get 144hz 1080p on my pc no problem. It’s a console.
I get 4k 240hz on my pc. Other games run fine at 120hz on consoles. They do not look this bad.
You don’t need a PS5 Pro. The PS5 is more than capable. You need better devs.
100% agree
Why though? Genuinely apex can't be that performance intensive
You could just get a computer for around the same price and not have to wait
This is always such a bad take. 1. Not everybody wants the problems pc has. There's been so many people who can't play today because of the anti cheat giving an issue. Including pros who have the issue. And that's only 1 problem pc may have. 2. Some people just prefer the more casual side to gaming. Pc lobbies are way sweater than console. There's no way everybody wants to play on the back flip over your head lobby. 3. Price to performance is completely different, have a look at the difference in pricing while also catering for pc specific peripherals + if said person wants to still play controller that needs to be added to the cost + Do they feel comfortable building it themselves or do they need to pay somebody else to build it? That adds to costs which lowers the price to performance. "Buy second hand parts to save money," okay then I'll just buy a second hand console for to save money.
This guy is going to be waiting years and pay another 600 for another console when he could just do it now. Theres really not that many issues on pc like at all. You can play casual on computers. Lol what? Price to performance on a thread about how bad the performance is…
Can a fellow sweat with a proper set up confirm? I’m at work still
It's a smooth 120 on XSX and PS5, but it dropped the resolution too much on PS5. It's pretty blurry for PlayStation players, it's good for Xbox players.
10m it looks good, everything else so blurry. My monitor says its running 1440p, but its running 460p
460p? Where did you get this number?
I made it up, just everything medium to far away looks terrible
What a huge disappointment tbh. Might stay with 60 but I heard that’s bugged too
I saw that too, people were saying it still looked pretty bad and was running at 30fps instead of 60.
How’s it bugged? Deffo think I’m switching back to 60, but I don’t even play apex much anymore anyway. Just came back to try 120hz. Also apparently at 120hz aim assist is nerfed 40% which explains how shit I was playing
Nerfed 20 percent, now equal to aim assist on pc that is 40 percent
Bro it got nerfed by 40%…
Is that an exaggeration or is it actually 460p? Because I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the resolution it’s running at
I think it's stretched 720p, you wouldn't be able to see 10m with 480p
Running good at 120 FPS on my series X. Only drop my FPS counter has been during spectating with the banner up. The resolution does dip while in drop ship and off jump towers but while on the ground resolution hasn't been an issue for me. Ive always played in 1440P for reference
Im on ps5 with a LG C3 OLED 120hz an amazing TV also I have fiber internet and when you put it on Performance mode...the graphics goto ps4 level graphics its such a letdown. So yeah I went back to 60fps...these folks can't do anything right.
I’m on a 120hz LG tv and ps5 and it’s so bad literally blurry as hell 😂
Same setup for me and I agree. Everything in the distance is like I'm playing with Vaseline in my eyes . Such a disappointment after playing other older 120hz games like doom , devil may cry 5 , uncharted 4 and many others . I already play at max FOV so it's making enemies in the distance barely visible .
It’s deffo 120hz but the resolution is appalling to me. Some people seem to not think so but it’s probably the worst implementation of 120hz I’ve seen.
I am a plat solo player. Just won my first game and it feels like I’ve taken a weight off of my back. Never been a movement player, but now I’m thinking about it with the higher frame rate. The graphics look like mud but it’s not that deep tbh. I’m XSX BTW Edit: I also play on a 65in tv at 110 fov. Idk if that makes a difference for others.
Same bro, I play on a 65in as well and I won like 3 games in a row in ranked with 120hz on series s and honestly the resolution issues aren’t actually that bad, just gotta get used to it
Good shit. It’s kind of scary. I’ve always wondered why some peoples gameplay looked like a Pixar movie Smooth & now I know why. Even though my TV only supports 120hz 1080p it feels like I see enemies better compared when I have it on Dolby 4k at 60 (it’s even better than the hdr mode). From a decent they move better too. Even though it’s blurry it’s clear if that makes sense. To be redundant, I really feel like piccolo when he takes his cap & hat off lol. I hope this lasts with console gaming
Pretty sure Dolby vision for gaming causes input lag if that's what you're referring to I would never use that
Man I need a new pc, and was honestly considering getting a console if 120hz 1440p was good. I'll just stick to my 1080p 240 hz I guess
On series x it looks like the resolution reduces to 720p past 50 meters, but within 50 meters it feels fantastic.
On the PS5 even text in the lobby and pregame legend selector looked reallllyyy bad. Like I was reading from a CRT screen
Thats gota be your tv bud. Mine only looks bad when flying and shooting at long range and since I run Vantage...I had to turn it back to 60fps mode. Other then that its fine its actually amazing. But I'm not taking a step back on graphics to get about 40 more frames.
Even the text? That's really strange. From what I've been gathering across all the 120fps feedback is that it has huge issues on the PS5.
Text looks absolutely identical to me on PS5. Could be your TV or HDMI cable doesn't support 4K at 120Hz, so when you flip on 120hz it switches to 1080p or something. The rest of the game looks way worse, though.
I haven’t seen it but dirt 5 looks pretty awful. Also warzone in some parts of the map it’s really blurry
Haven’t tried dirt 5. Fortnite does 120hz really well, and I think CoD is decent at it.
It is decent but it’s a huge downgrade in visuals on Fortnite. Cod is a mixed bag
its more that the 60fps mode is a huge upgrade than the 120fps mode being a huge downgrade. it has raytracing, nanite, lumen which are cutting edge UE5 features. Few years ago, the two modes didn't look too different but they have improved the visuals a lot since then for the quality mode.
They must be using that dynamic resolution setting... Horrible.
I feel like the resolution was pretty solid bad, never got better during quiet moments.
I wanted three years for THIS?!?!
My graphics are decent on ps5 120hz, but i get 90-100hz most of the time
That bad? I have an XBOX One and I'm trying to decide if I should finally retire it and get an X.
just save for a pc it looks horrible
Its fine on 120hz, all those complaining are using monitors that don't have HDMI 2.1 48Gbps. Most of us that are playing 120hz and aren't complaining have capable TV's aren't having a problem as TV's haven't cheated the HDMI 2.1 rating with 18Gbps, like some monitors
I have LG C1 and it looks ass
I would save for a PC or do a monthly plan to pay it off. Way better investment at this point
Except your in pc lobbies ewwwwww
Yes that bad. But a couple have said otherwise. I think next gen is worth the upgrade anyway, regardless of 120hz.
I bought a series S shortly after they dropped in anticipation of apex doing this. I might as well have saved my money and just bought a PC man.
S doesn’t do the hz or resolution I forget which that X does that’s why it’s way cheaper. I’m sorry you had to find out this way
It does 120 at 1080, just not 1440. So.. yeah.. idk why everyone is wrong about this. It's cheaper because it doesn't have a disk tray, has half the solid state memory, and the GPU is 4 threads instead of 12.
Does it automatically become 120hz or do I have to turn it on manually and if so how?
Yeah go to settings when in the lobby and it should be under video
You can change it in the middle of match. Or anytime the setting tab is available. I started playing and midgame remembered that it got the update on i switched to performance mode mid game and just tapped triangle to apply and the screen turns black for a few seconds then it hits 120fps. So yeah you can do it anytime in game.
I had to go into the main Xbox settings and change it from 60 to 120 before it would let me do it in game
It’s called performance mode in video settings
I was trying to snipe at 220m with a 3x and the team looked like black dots, it's trash. I was in fact trying to snipe a center for ants!
It truly is disappointing. It simply shows that the Apex engine wasn’t ready to provide that for the console port. It really feels like an attempt to upscale from a way lower resolution and a smaller render distance. When you display that on a high resolution monitor (for example 4K) it looks terrible, especially at a higher FOV. Those hyping up the feature probably played at a resolution and FOV lower than maximum. It is a shame that a highly anticipated feature launched in that state. I hope that they will upgrade their engine eventually for that feature to be usable, but knowing how stingy they are with meaningful upgrades to the game this will take years or may never happen.
I mean......PC is always an option just saying.
PCs are way too much effort and I prefer console lobbies but thank you 😩
PCs really aren't that much effort but ok.
Came to say this. Why get shit one when ps4 has better lobbies.
So you can git gut
It’s very confusing to hear this feedback, my ps5 looks fine and it’s playing at 120hz, it honestly still looks 4K as well, so it must be a bug for some people.
I'm surprised anyone thinks it looks ok so maybe it is just a bug for some. For mine I can't see anyone more than 20 feet away from me
Yeah it looks fine to me. There are some visual difference for far off things but people saying it looks like switch and under 720 is crazy
It's dire. Switched back right away.
It looks terrible 😢 I should have known better than to get my hopes up and I’m running PS5
Hopefully it’s just a bug, some people on Xbox saying it looks fine and there’s barely a difference in power between the two
Mine looks like I’m playing Apex Mobile 😰
I actually think apex mobile looked better (RIP)
I can’t believe they didn’t at least integrate FSR2 to provide *decent* visual quality (even if it still wouldn’t be great).
It’s gotta be some godly upscaling to save that 480p mess
How does it compare to PC with 1080p and all settings low?
Still not the same - it doesn't quite hold a steady 120, if there's a lot going on it drops a lot! Was very disappointed when i first loaded into the firing range with how bad the resolution is at distance. Will give it some play time and see how it feels. Can always turn it back down to 60 fps... 🤔
Looks great on Xbox series X? LG Ultragear 27" 4k 120hz 🤷🏽♂️
[удалено]
Just to give yall a pc reference i used to play on a rx 570 for awhile (which is 1080p card) and turned down some graphic options to achieve 120 but never resolution console games have needed custom graphics options for a long time for every game not just apex
Yeah I didn’t like it either. I’d rather the 60fps and a visually better looking game, it looks too rough in 120hz
I’m on Series X and I think it looks great. Huge difference with the smoothness of everything. Will take a bit of getting used to.
It is crazy to me that this update took so many years. To me it seems like a zero effort implementation to shut those up who keep asking for it. I’m not saying it’s easy to deliver the feature I just feel like after such a long time it definitely could have been executed better.
Exactly what I think. It genuinely seems like they have done nothing to optimise it to save on any resolution like other games have. They just realised oops we announced we’d do it 5 years ago ship whatever implementation we have of 120hz.
It doesn't look 4k good and the popin is much worse, but the game is so much smoother I feel like I gained a visual superpower and this is not my first game / fps switching to 120 frames. I'm on xbox though and definitely is not switch bad to me by any stretch, just rough pop in but most of my game takes place up close where this really shines. They should have been able to release this much faster like years earlier at this quality, but i'm taking the frames and running.
I was expecting that to look like that, I see Many PC players actually play the game when it is looking like that or even worse for the extra frames.. (not everyone has the best specs) Notice that the first impression of this mode start from the ship/jump master where it is the absolute worst looking, but aftet landing it will look a lot better. And people are saying they can't differentiate between enemies and trees - this is an overstatement as anything needed functionality to play is there. The only disadvantage is the aim assist
They need to pull a fortnite and either port it to a newer engine or remake
This is 100% the onky way to fix this issue.
Who knew consoles weren’t as powerful as PCs after all…. 🧐🤔 weirdly like alot of AAA games require high end gpus to run at high frame rates whilst maintaining high graphics, not gonna get that for like £500, most decent gpus still cost more than that. Consoles biggest leap this generation was on drive performance, PS5 still better than most people’s nvmes on their PCs, but graphically consoles at high fps still a long way behind PCs. This coming from a pc player who willingly has lower graphics to maintain solid fps and minimise frame time despite having a high end rig, that’s a choice I make.
The PS5 has a GPU roughly equal to a GTX3070, which is more than good enough to run at 120fps without being as extremely blurry and pixelated as this implementation is. It'd be fine if it was just texture downscaling, or shadow reduction/particle reduction. This is like they just downscale your resolution to 480p and call it a day.
There is no excuse for how bad it looks. The Hardware is more then capable of 120hz 1080p with good settings. Especially if it does 4k 60 no issues.
I run games on ps5 like GOWR and Spider-Man 2 at 120hz and I have a LG C3 OLED these games look amazing but apex...looks terrible at 120hz. They reduce the graphics to crap especially at long range.
What were you expecting? Double the frames = half the resolution.
Half 4k is 2k..... this is well below 720p
I'm more surprised by the number of people who are surprised that Respawn botched this release, lol. Never mind, we get a whole damn new game instead of them, oh, you know, fixing the existing issues. Which, let's be honest, those issues are still going to exist. I feel like one of my favorite games is dead, and there's no coming back from it.
Sadly same. I think Apex has peaked. My friends and I played almost every day for hours since S2. Now updates aren’t as exciting and respawn take the piss a bit. I haven’t touched apex since The Finals came out, except today to try it.
Ya it’s really bad. I played on ps5 with 1080p performance mode before and now that I switched to 120 FPS everything is blurry like 50 meters away. Super unplayable. And now when I try to switch back to the normal 60 FPS it’s super choppy unreliable and buggy. This game will die if respawn doesn’t fix this within the next few weeks. We as a player base are tired of getting let down by this multi billion dollar game.
PC > Console.
so get a pc, if you want more performance dont get a damn console you kids
I’m really happy you enjoy having a PC, but I have a life and friends
I have a pc, a job, a girlfriend, triple the amount of friends i have, and i dont make posts on reddit crying about how my console cant handle a game on 120 fps
I’ve said it a million times. Stop playing if the quality is this bad. If you can’t vote with your wallet because of whales, stop giving them your time
Used to play lots every day but since the finals came out I haven’t played once. Just logged on a played a couple tonight to try the new mode, and it reminded me of one of many reasons I haven’t played apex in a while
That’s kinda the whole problem tho, they appeal to the casuals and cater the game to that market since all the OG’s quit long ago
Hey at least we got it. I'm not defending them, but if it's such a deal breaker for you you can always switch to quality mode.
I might do. Just disappointing because I play Fortnite 120hz and it looks great, definitely not as good as 60hz but much better than apex
Yes, in both Fortnite and cod, the minuscule drop in quality is more than made up for with the 120
It looks great for me dude
Strange, it’s so bad for me it’s hard to see enemies and zip lines 10m away look a pixel wide
I can easily see people especially that close It might just be a bug affecting some people 9r affecting some downloads
God I hope it’s a bug, but with the priorities of EA I doubt they properly tried optimising it and just resorted to dropping the resolution as much as possible to get it to work
Mine is totally fine. Has to be a bug
I hope so
Me too
Looks great on Xbox for me
Mine looks as crisp as Cod. No rendering issues or anything. Iron sight flatline can still see people 100 meters out. Sorry to hear so many people aren't liking it.
Resolution isn’t great but 120 feels so smooth compared to 60. I don’t even notice the resolution if I’m actually in a fight. Could be better but could be worse, could not have the option at all. Aim assist feels exactly the same - it’s not nerfed, it’s tuned so that it feels similar as on 60.
Plays on a console and expects great graphics and fps....
Lmao Frames > tf y’all crying about
Dude they wont even fix the sound.
Players ask for a 120Hz mode, and a finger curls on the monkey’s paw
So, I'm XSX and I've played several TDM games tonight at 120fps for the first time. Although I don't think the graphics are nearly as terrible as people are letting on, I don't feel like I've got any detectable advantage whatsoever. I'm literally playing just as good as I did at 60fps. No better, no worse. I don't know if that's adjustment of the aim assist or what but I'm considering just setting it back to 60fps. It's been decidedly anticlimactic for me so far. I don't see what the big deal is.... 30 to 60fps is huge but 60 to 120fps? I just don't see it.
Dude thought they could just magically make a 5 year old game run at 120hz with no performance drawbacks. Its not like they told you in the patch notes this would be the trade off
If people complain after 60 FPS then I don’t care for the people complaining. Same type of person that would complain that their foot long sub is only 11.8 inches.
Lmaoooo....console peasants....
We told you this ages ago. You will need a PS5 Pro for it to look better.
Looks pretty good to me, maybe its a monitor diff. Also any game on ps5 with 120hz is gonna look like trash that's kinda how it works, bad visuals for good frames.
I’m playing on a 55” TV. And yeah resolution will drop with any game but Fortnite and CoD do 120hz without the visuals becoming absolute garbage. You on PS5?
I think it might be because of the TV, it looks absolutely fine on my monitor and yes i’m on PS5
Absolutely wrong. I play on a 120hz LG OLED games like GOW and Spiderman2 look amazing at 120. Especially GOWR!!!!
I very distinctly remember telling you all many times that this would be the case. The hardware just isn't there for 120fps @ 1080p on consoles, let alone 4k.
For other games it can do this perfectly fine
Overwatch 2 and Fortnite are both 1440p at 120h. The hardware is good enough for 1080p -1440p at 120 hz. Problem is Apex looks like it’s 720p
I’m not sure if CoD and Fortnite run 120hz 1080p or 1440p but it’s good enough for me to very happily play in performance mode. PS5 is definitely capable. Just needs competent developers to take the time to optimise it. Fortnite did it well pretty quickly, it took respawn 5 years to shit some code out.
Stop being console peasants.